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The JTrain Podcast
How Couples Should Talk About Money with The Fiscal Femme - CHIT CHAT WEDNESDAY
00:52:22
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- [00:00]
A
Chit Chat Wednesday for you to listen to. I have a guess who will be your new boo. You're gonna love them, too. Chit Chat Wednesday. I hope you're having a good day today. I hope it's gonna be a perfect week, too. I hope you have a nice poo. It's a ch. Chitchat Wednesday, too. Hello, and welcome to the J Train Podcast. This is J Train Jared Free coming to you live from Delray Beach, Florida. That's right, every Wednesday is a Chit Chat Wednesday where I sit down with a comedian, a friend, an expert. So far, I got one out of three. We are just meeting now so we'll be friends by the end of the episode, I'm sure. But they are an expert in finance. Or as your douchiest finance friend calls it, finance. They are the. They're on social media. They are at the Femme Fatale. At the Femme fatale. At the fiscal femme. I was going to ask you about that. Okay. Ashley Feinstein Gersley, thank you for coming on the show.
- [01:25]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [01:27]
A
It is so good to see you. Fiscal femme. I get Femme fatale. I think, like, do you have people that are like. Like, that name to me, like, is like, you know, like, dom. Like, porn ridden. Was that, like, on purpose? Was that. Do you get that a lot? Am I just a weirdo for bringing that up five seconds into meeting you? But I see fiscal femme, and I'm like, there's something naughty here.
- [01:54]
B
So it's actually pretty common for people to say femme fatale, but it didn't really have a naughty backstory. I basically was sharing about my own money journey, trying to come up with a name for the blog. And one of my friends spoke French and she said femme meant woman. And so I'm like, oh, the fiscal woman. But it has the alliteration, so. But, you know, if it adds that.
- [02:13]
A
I mean, there was like a time, I think it was Slutty Puffin who told me that, like, at a certain time, the thing to do if you were going to, like, start a social media account was to have something recognizable and then something like a swear, like Jerry Slutty Puffin. Like, these accounts did well. So I was like, but fiscal femme, again, it does roll off the tongue, but there's something there. I was like, I'm like, is this gonna, like. Cause you never know. Like, you see people on social media and they're like, I'm gonna do finance but sexy. And you're like, okay, sure, I guess. I guess we're gonna magic school bus this. They're gonna make it, like, more edible, you know, like, this is like the way the, you know, the world works.
- [03:01]
B
Making it more palatable.
- [03:02]
A
And that's kind of your job. So you are a CFP now? I used to sell life insurance and annuities, so I have some familiarity. The CFP designation, would you say that, like, that's the only person that should give financial advice? Would you say that like, anything below a cfp? Like, you're talking to just an armchair quarterback? This isn't someone, like, the designation's important. I know that.
- [03:28]
B
Well, I actually just got it in the last few years. And the reason I didn't get any certifications is I wanted to make it approachable. Like, if I can do this, you can too. And so I didn't want all these neat letters after my name or to make it seem out of reach. But then for my last book, when I interviewed people, I started screening for the cfp. Cause that made me feel comfortable. I know there's a lot there with first the education, but also like, the fiduciary duty that you have to recommend what's in people's best interest. So I'm like, if I'm screaming for.
- [03:58]
A
This, then I want it.
- [04:00]
B
But for a while, honestly, it was based on. Yeah, yeah. But basically, for a long time, it was based on just my experience with helping people with my own journey. And so I think just. I think it's important with finance to understand where the incentives are and how people are getting paid. I think that's the biggest thing for taking advice. But of course, I'm a big fan of the credentials.
- [04:23]
A
So for those listening or watching on YouTube, Ashley's the author of Financial Adulting the 30 Day Money Cleanse. I, you know, we talk a lot about dating and relationships. What is like, I mean, what's the biggest problem people have with money? Like, is there if there's one thing that you're like, this is everyone's problem. I mean, you, You. How old are you? What? How old are you? And like, you know, because I'm trying to figure out where you are around where I am.
- [04:50]
B
You know, I'm 39. I'm an.
- [04:53]
A
You and I are around the same age. I'm a little older. So, like, what do you think people around our age are, like, dealing with, like, what is, like, the number one thing that they're messing up or need to do better or, like, stressing them out?
- [05:05]
B
So I would say the most common thing I see is that we tend to polarize each other in relationships. And so even if we might be similar, like a saver and a saver or a spender and a spender, when we get together, the saver becomes more savvy, the spender becomes more spendy, and it creates stress in the relationship. Something I have everyone in relationships do, especially as they become more serious, is have money parties together where you set aside time, sit down, deal with any of that money stuff that in a. In a place where you can set an intention to be compassionate and listen and nonjudgmental. So I think that's a really great habit to get into. And really communication is so important because an understanding where the other person is.
- [05:50]
A
Coming to the money party when it comes. How do you.
- [05:53]
B
Because there's so much behind.
- [05:54]
A
What. How does that. That this is your thing money party? Well, because I'm like, I've dated people and I'm like, and I'm.
- [06:01]
B
I love money.
- [06:02]
A
When I'm in starting to date someone, like, money doesn't even come up. Like, it's almost like we live in a fantasy world. Like, I'm like, I'm paying for every date. But of course, that's not how I see it. Going forever. Like, I don't see us. Like, this is all kind of like, it's all kind of just. It's not even reality. For the first, I would say maybe six months for me and for others, maybe it's sooner, maybe it's later.
- [06:29]
B
Definitely. And I do. I understand the idea that it's a fantasy world, but there are some hints. Like you can see how someone tips or how they talk about money or the types of places they choose. You might get some hints into their financial viewpoint. But the money party essentially is setting aside time. I like to have them every month. If you have them more often, they can be shorter. And I make them fun. I have a playlist with songs that pump me up about money. I'm happy to share it. And I get my PJs. I have a cup of tea. I know some people like to go out after, like have a date night after they'll have an adult beverage. I just recommend drinking less and at the beginning so that you don't just give up on your money party and you just look at your spending, check in on your goals, have conversations. If especially once you start to have joint expenses, like, oh my God, why is the AMEX so high? Like, let's look into it now versus like yelling at someone when they're walking out the door.
- [07:25]
A
Right.
- [07:25]
B
You know, so it prevents that. It creates this like safer space for.
- [07:29]
A
So what would you do? Like give us it. Like, like let's play out the night. You and I are going to have a money party. We planned it for Friday night. We have a dinner set up for eight. Are you, what are you bringing? Like, what do you, you know, let's say like you and I are dating. We're three months in. Is that too early? Is that too late? Is it six months in? Is it. We're a year in, like I and I. I guess age would matter. Like if I'm dating someone at 40, like I'm going to talk about money way sooner than I would be if I was at 23. Like that's not even going to be like a thought in my mind. But like, how does this go down? Like, you know, Friday night we have dinner. Eight o'. Clock.
- [08:08]
B
Yeah.
- [08:08]
A
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- [10:12]
B
Feather Such a great question. So I think it really depends on where you are in the relationship. And it could be three months in, but super serious. Three months in, not as serious. So it really depends on like, I think let's say you're planning a trip together and there's going to be some combined finance thing for that, or you're going to a wedding. Like, that could be a hint that it's time to start having this type of conversation. You can have a money party once you start having shared expenses. That's when you want to have a money party, but even before that. So this is, you know, it's personal preference. But when you can, you can even have money parties with friends, so, so bring them in. A great way to do that is to start doing it.
- [10:50]
A
I'm sorry to interrupt because I, I, I like the idea of like, how know, I like the idea of like, what brings this up and like, you know, like, okay, so we have a wedding together is like a really good way, like a, a good, like kind of like, because I, I, the hardest part is bringing these things up. Like, the hardest part is like, it's not having the money party. It's like it's being vulnerable enough to like present it. So it's like, hey, we're going to a wedding next month. This is our first trip together. There's going to be money stuff going on. I just heard this podcast where they talked about a money party. Would you be up for that? Is that kind of like a good way to bring it up? Like, and I like the idea of doing it with friends. Like, bachelorette party. Like, hey, we have this big trip coming up. There's money stuff that I'm just like, I, it's all awkward. Even calling it awkward might help, you know? Like, I think like, sometimes I'm like, I need the first sentence, but I can do the rest. So is this when you would bring it up, you'd say like, okay, we're going to this wedding. You invited me but like, there's money things at hand. I hate having this just unsaid. Can we have a money party?
- [11:57]
B
Yes. And I think to either so much here. I think we don't. We don't need to, like, show them our balances or like, say, this is how much debt I have. You don't. You can wade into that slowly, you know, but it's more like, hey, how are we going to divide the expenses for the wedding? Like, who's paying for what? Like, can we talk? And I love the idea of naming things that feel awkward to just get that out there. But even with the friends, for example, if you don't even have shared expenses, you just to say, hey, I have money goals. Like, and then they'll say, I do too. Like, let's sit down and track our expenses completely separately. Just the body doubling itself has you do it. Show up, build that habit. And then when someone sees you're thriving financially, it will inspire them to kind of join in with you. So even if you don't have anything joint, you could have this ritual where you track your own money. And that comes up in a conversation. Like, this is something I do. It helps me with my goals. Or, hey, I really want to take a trip, so I'm saving money. Like, you can bring up the conversation in so many different ways and aren't like, here's my credit card debt, or this is how much I earn. That feels so much less awkward. Or like, oh, my gosh, growing up, my family was like this, like, with money. What was your family like with money? So, like, easing in or wading into these money conversations in a way that doesn't feel like you're just like, getting naked or your money on the first day.
- [13:15]
A
Right? I'm trying to think, like, I. So, like, you know, if I. I just think. I don't know when I would bring this up or even if I would, like, if I'm being honest. Like, it's like a hard. And I think, like, sometime I think from the male side of things, it's like, that's kind of your. Like, it's like showing, you know, your boobs a little bit. Like, it's like, you know, it's like, like a little like, it's like, here's the thing that maybe, like, I'm not saying I. I've never thought of myself as, like, getting someone, you know, a woman, because they thought I was like, this rich guy. Like, that's not who I am. But the. The idea that, like, when you pay for a Day you're like, look at, I can do this. And then there's like, the reality of it is like, yeah, I don't like to spend 200 bucks on a dinner every night of the week. Like, that's not like, I don't have all the money in the world and I can't do that. So then you have to like, become the real naked, you know, wet version. You're like the wet rat version of you. And you know, like, I, so I'm like trying to think of, like, when, like I don't even know the first thing to show. What would be the first thing you'd show a partner that you started dating?
- [14:29]
B
Well, curious for you, like, on dates, are there any conversations that come up around money? See, like, even, like this is what I want. Like, even I think a lot of it is future based. Like, what you want in life. Like, do you want, like, when you're talking about how many kids, that's a money conversation. When you're talking about, like, where you want to live, that's kind of money.
- [14:49]
A
Yeah, I, I think, and I agree with you, I think a lot of the, like, stuff on, like a first date, you're talking about money whether you like it or not. Like, here's where I went to school, here's where I grew up. Here's what my parents, you know, do or did, or here's what I do. Like, you can all again. I, I think that's like the hard part about this is so many assumptions are made, you know, like, you, you kind of like go based on your own emotional state and what you feel about all these informational tidbits. So, like, when I say, like, oh, I would love two kids, I never, I guess I never think of that as like, I'm too cheap for a third. But like, I guess that is, like, that is part of why I want two kids. I don't, I think a third kid would be like, so expensive. I also grew up with a brother and not, you know, we didn't have three kids in the family. So, like, that's part of it, you know, I, I, I, I get, it's pretty lame, you know, like, I, I, I guess, like, right.
- [15:50]
B
And you know, a lot of couples will say, I pay for the wedding if it's my friend. You pay for the wedding if it's your friend. Even just, let's say you're invited to a wedding and you're bringing someone. You could even say, hey, this is what I'm thinking. How does that sound?
- [16:02]
A
Right?
- [16:03]
B
You know, and that's one money conversation.
- [16:07]
A
Is there a money red flag in dating? Is there something that someone does or says that you're like, just stay away from this guy or this woman or whatever.
- [16:19]
B
I get a lot of questions about that. Like, if someone is not good with money, should you not date them or is that, you know, get rid of them? I think the biggest thing is this willingness to learn and get better at it. We have so much working against us when it comes to money, so most of us aren't just like off the bat, thriving. And if we aren't, that is okay. But if we're not willing to learn, if we're not willing to talk about it, if someone's like, oh, you're not part of that conversation, or, you know, making you feel stupid about talking about money, I think those are red flags, like the way you're able to communicate about it. Also probably some control issues around money. If there's money used in a way to manipulate you, that would be a red flag that I'd see. Um, but generally, you know, if someone has a low credit score, for example, that can happen for so many reasons and that sticks with you for many years. I would say as long as they're interested in improving in that area, then that wouldn't be.
- [17:12]
A
What is the number one fight couples are having about money? Like, like, what's the, what's the thing? Is it like, I want this and they don't want to spend this? Or like, what. What's the one argument that people are just generally having?
- [17:26]
B
I would say probably spending, like valuing, spending money on different things or spending versus saving. You know, my husband and I, he like values buying things. I value experiences. So, you know, there's judgment on what we're spending our money on. In another one we have, and I think this one can be common too, is like, when do you pay to make things more convenient and when do you do it yourself and save money?
- [17:52]
A
That's a great way of putting it.
- [17:53]
B
That's one that we are communicating about constantly. But I.
- [17:56]
A
You don't really hear it put that way as, like, because, like, okay, I'm going to get the Uber as opposed to taking the subway, which is like a very New York version of that. But like, I'm going to get, you know, the lay flat seat as opposed to economy class, because we can have a great trip and it's going to make everyone feel better. Day one, instead of having, you know, being groggy or whatever, like, I guess that's like the. I guess you're making it, you know, it's not spend or don't spend, it's spend or spend less, you know?
- [18:30]
B
Right. And ours. The one I wrote about recently was making tuna salad or egg salad versus buying it. It's like the very Jewish bagel version. But. But it was like, not. It was like, it's easy to make, but like, do we have time and what are we not doing that during that time that we're making it? And. And so, yes, there's a lot of different situations. And someone might be a pay for. Like, I feel like he would be pay for the upgrade, but not pay for the bagel and the pay for the tuna and the egg salad, you know, so you could be both depending on.
- [19:03]
A
That's the hard part, I think in dating and money is like, it is crazy what our emotional state is for different types of spending. And if you're with someone, they kind of like call you on your hypocrisies and you're like, yeah, that's called being a human. But like. And then you become embarrassed of it, so you hide it. Like, if I'm like, thinking out loud a little bit, you know, like, that is like such a big point of contention. Like with dating, it's like, well, you'll spend on this, but you won't spend on that. Like, this is where you're cheap. And it's like, I don't know if I would. I would hope. I wouldn't like, use that. I guess. I guess it could become weaponized if you have bigger problems in the relationship. Like, that's like a. And like, you know, that's okay. I do things and I'm like, there's no way I'd spend money on that. And then there's like, other things. I'm like, you'd be like, wait, you have a. You have a hat from Kimo Sabe that costs, you know, a rent payment. What the hell are you talking about? You. You know, but that doesn't mean I just spend on everything, you know?
- [20:09]
B
Yes. And it honestly leads. It's like, leads to conversation. It's about what's important to you. And it's also one of the reasons, like, when people combine finances, I recommend having just your own pool of spending money. Like, here's our goal, or join expense money. And then we each have like, this much amount of money to spend on whatever, and you can't judge it. Like, I get to do what I do. You get to do what you do because it. It helps with that. And it is interesting, like, if you can tease each other and laugh about it, but really hone in on, hey, this hat was really important to me. It brings me so much joy, then that is a productive conversation. Another. Another few prompts that I think are really helpful that you don't have to do on the first date or anything, but just your first money memory. That's a big one. Because if we remember it, it had an impact. And that might be driving, you know, your fear of whatever it is, how your family grew up with money. Like, if your family struggled with money or if they had a lot and lost it, for example, you might have this extra need to hoard it and save it. And if your partner understands what, where that's coming from, they can have more compassion than if it's just like, why are you so stingy with these things? And then also just like your biggest fear, because a lot of times our biggest money fear is not, not very likely to happen. But if they know, again, where that stress is coming from, it just. Compassion, I think, is a big thing here in these conversations.
- [21:35]
A
It's a great point. I mean, I, you know, to get personal, like, I, I come from, you know, a privileged background where, like, you know, my family, it was like, there were no real gifts. It wasn't like, wait for your birthday, but, like, if you need it, go get it. But like, also, money was also a topic of conversation with like, you know, you're. You're not going to, you're not going to get something stupid like a kimo sabe hat. Like, that would be, like, looked down upon and frowned upon. But like, my mom was a spender, my dad's a saver, and it is. And in a lot of their contention would be about the differences, you know, you know, the, you know, the nature versus nurture of it all. The, you know, that they're from two different, you know, kind of like, viewpoints on that. But like, the money fear, like, I guess you, you know, a lot of my fears for relationships would connect to, like, money fears. You know, my fear would be like, you know, comedy just, you know, my bookings going dry and nothing happening for me. And now I have no income. And when I am on my own, you know, like a single guy, I can, you know, rationalize that in the mirror. You know, like, when you're in a relationship, you're like, hey, no shows this month. And also I'm going to wake up and do a podcast where I'm giggling and laughing for an hour, like, That's a hard thing to tell a partner, you know, with no income coming in, you know, like, but the giggling might pay off, you know, like I, I, I, my insecurities would all in a relationship would stem from that. You know, it might, it would help me to like, probably tell someone that I was dating those things.
- [23:19]
B
And I think too, when then if, let's say you get rejected for a gig or there's a big expense that month, if there's heightened stress around it or you have a heightened reaction, they would know where that's coming from. They're like, and have some compassion. Like, this is his fear that there's no money ever coming in, you know, from this career and that's why this is heightened versus like, why is he.
- [23:40]
A
Being a jerk about, I mean I get so many emails from women being like, why won't this guy says he's not ready for a relationship? And you know, he's, and then they'll be like, he's this age, he's this, you know, what is he, when is he ever going to be ready? And you know, the joke is to be made of like a man being 80 saying like, yeah, I'm just not ready for a relationship. Like that joke is to be made. Like, I agree with the joke, but if you really want to get into it with the person you're dating, like, and see where that's coming from, I always believe that's from like money anxieties and career anxieties and not from like, I'm just trying to bang, you know, Like I, I don't always seems, you know, a little bit small minded to be like, yeah, he's just looking to be with a bunch of women, which does exist, but I, I don't think in most of these cases, you know what I mean? Do you hear that from people where they're like, yes, you do. You, you hear from people that like relationships definitely ending because of these things like money, thoughts and career.
- [24:45]
B
That's a great question if they're ending from it. But I have definitely heard not feeling ready financially to be in a relationship. I think it's interesting when in a partnership, your money, you're both contributing to the money. And so there can be like taking turns in careers almost. Like for example, I would say that in my relationship I have the giggle job, right? I'm on a call with you right now, giggling. And then my husband's job is like the one that has the life insurance and the steady income. And so I think there are turns for Taking risks in careers. Not to say you can have a giggle job that has steady income and things are happening and you feel confident in that income. Um, but if someone's going out and taking a risk, the other person might need to be more stable during that time, especially once there's a lot of shared expenses, like kids or something in the mix. So I can totally see that feeling of wanting to have things together before committing to someone. But also at the same time, if something feels really right or you're, you know, that is the person you want to spend your life with, like, you can figure it out. So, so yeah, but I haven't. I've definitely seen breakups from, like, financial infidelity, from people lying about things and finding out about things, especially when they're finding out and no one came clean. And then also, just like, people who are financial abusive or make what's financial abuse just feel really uncomfortable financially because they're financially abusive. Is there's like 99% of abuse cases include financial abuse or 99% of domestic violence cases include financial abuse. But it's essentially like limiting funds for people or like spending out of vengeance, like building some credit card debt in someone's name. Like, really terrible things like that. But using it to manipulate and hurt people.
- [26:38]
A
I guess I've never heard it spoken about that way, but like, you know, you do hear the one you hear. Like, I guess the financial abuse that I would hear about is like, this person, you know, racked up debt and then left me with the debt. Like, that's like a, a pretty common form of that, right?
- [26:57]
B
Yes, I so, and it, and to the, and when it's so I, I.
- [27:02]
A
I have a question that I'm going to get to some listener questions, because we have two emails from listeners on the subject of finance and dating. How do you like, you know, I always hear the shared expenses. What would be this? You know, like, just like nuts and bolts. Is it like here we have this credit card that goes to the same place. Like, do you put, do you both put 10,000 into a, like a cash account? Like, I, I just 10,000 out of, out of the air. But like, you know, like, how does it work? Like, structurally and because we always hear about shared finances, then I'm like, I have a little bit like, you know, a very small amount of like, financial knowledge and how my accounts are set up. But, like, is it like, how would you do it?
- [27:50]
B
So you can go two ends there and then everything in between. So there's like fully combined everything's together. And then there's like, everything separate. And you like Venmo each other, and there are people who do that too. And I think it depends on your financial history and trust and what you saw growing up that impacts your ability or wanting to share accounts. And then somewhere in between is where I've seen the most common and the most success. So it's like you have a joint account for expenses. You decide how much each person contributes to that account. It could be split evenly. It could be based on a percentage of their income. Like, this one earns double, so they contribute double. But if maybe they contribute, they have double, but they have a big student loan payment. So maybe you reduce that a little bit, but you decide what each person contributes to the joint. And then you can have your separate. And essentially when you have a business, like I have a business, and so I have my own finances for the business and then the joint account with my partner. So really any way in between. But I think the key is, is talking about it. And if. And if there is stress or something that feels like it's not working or not fair, like, I feel like I'm really, like, trying really hard to put this amount in and it's you making more money and it's easy for you, like, really speaking up and trying to adjust the system so that there's not resentment building. If one person is just working in the home, for example, you want to make sure they have access to funds versus having to ask a partner, like, I, I need money, can you transfer it over? Because this creates, like, this power dynamic that does not feel good. So I think it's very personal. But those are kind of the different ways, like, going all in, keeping it separate and just transferring things over. You could even keep it separate and say, venmo me for the rent. I'll cover utilities, you cover cable, whatever it is.
- [29:41]
A
Yeah.
- [29:41]
B
And then in between, where you have some joint and. Or that one joint. And you can have a joint credit card too, like you mentioned, so that any, like, groceries go on there and then the joint account.
- [29:52]
A
It's funny, I'm like, thinking about this, like, as you're talking about it. I'm like, man, I would have to, like, change my lifestyle, you know? Like, I, you know, the way I spend, the way I, like, put my money together, like, this would be like a change of, like, how I pay for things, you know, Like, I. And all of that I do quietly, you know, Like, I don't really like, you know, I'm not as organized as probably the most organized person, but I'm not like a total mess. But I'm like, I'm not sitting there being like, okay, it is build day. Let me just take the stuff in my inbox and put it to my outbox. Like, I don't know, like, I, it is funny that, like, I think a lot of the insecurity, I'm, I'm, I personalize everything because I'm like, if I'm dealing with it, I'm sure the listeners or the viewers are dealing with it, but I'm like, I'm like, man, I. It would be, I would have to say so much more out loud than I normally have to say, if that makes any sense.
- [30:53]
B
And there are things like I've put in place with couples that work really well. Like, you buy whatever you buy, but if it's over a certain amount and it's not. And this is, you know, once you're combined, right? Like, once you're married. But if it's over this amount, we talk about it just like, so a peloton's not showing up at the door and the other person's like, what happened here? But then for like the everyday choices, like, you want to grab your lunch, you want to buy something small, like, you decide that threshold at which you guys want to confer. And it doesn't mean you're asking permission just to talk about it so that they're not like big stressors and surprises. But I'm curious for you, like, in your example of things having to change so much, is it, which, which part of it would be the biggest shift for you? The top.
- [31:37]
A
I would have to be like, incredibly open about it. Like, I mean, like, I have my own business too. I have, you know, I have an LLC for this whole, you know, I, I, but I called it the wizard of Haas Inc. Like, it's like everything I do is stupid, but then there's like real consequences and real business that goes into it. So it's like, you know, I giggle every time I see the wizard of Haas Inc. On, like a check. Like, I'm like, that's stupid. But then it's like, you know, and then I have like, some things are direct deposit, some things are not. Some, you know, I pay, you know, I do a lot of, like, you know, everything I do is my business. So I like, I, you know, I use a credit card. It's a business expense. Like, you know, I'm making videos from everywhere. I'm doing stand up and writing from everywhere. So a Lot of like my lifestyle comes out of, you know, it's just like I. So I'm like, I don't know. A lot of it is like. And I think of this a lot with my career, especially doing this like alternative thing as you know, you're doing something pretty alternative, you know, is like you have to go, this is weird. And this is how I do it, you know, like, you know, and I have that a lot with work stuff generally like, hey, I have to go do this free open mic so that I can work on a seven minute set that won't get me paid but will get me looked at by people who could pay me one day. So it's like you really have to be very understanding of like this like non real currency. Like this. Like there's a name for it. The I'm. I'm searching for it. There's a financial term for like.
- [33:19]
B
Well, to me that's marketing, right? That's like a form of marketing. Also. I think the wizard of Oz thing is, is amazing and I think it doesn't have to be serious like that. Just because it's fun and funny doesn't mean it's not a great setup. So I think laughing every time and like having that joy every time you see your tax return or see like a check come in is a lot.
- [33:39]
A
Of comics have that like, you know, it is a fun pastime to find out comedians business names because they're all weird. Everyone has a weird one. Okay, so we're here at the Fiscal Femme. Go follow. I'm so happy Ashley's here. This is fantastic. We have an email. Let's do an email. I like the. The subject is does my husband owe me money? Which is a fun subject. Okay, you ready? We've been married three and a half years. We have two kids together and he has a son from a previous marriage. Our finances are separate. He venmoes me monthly for his share of the bills and I pay everything. We just went to Portugal with his family. Before the drip, before the trip. We agreed to each bring $500. I sent him 250 for my half and his parents gave us €800. While there I barely spent anything. A couple cheap souvenirs for the girls and one activity. He on the other hand, spent way more. Nightly food at feasts, a tattoo, a bracelet, a hat, a soccer ball for his son, even a gift for his son's mother. Okay. We came home with just over a thousand euro. He exchanged it and deposited into his account. When I asked what he planned to do with it. He said pay off our joint credit card, which I had already paid my half of. Buy buy school shoes for his son and maybe fall clothes for the girls. I told him I wanted to place a 100 or a $120 order for the girls, and he said no because they don't need it right now. Later I asked if he could send me money for shoes I bought myself, and he just laughed. So my question is, shouldn't some of that money come to me? I don't feel entitled to the €800 from his parents. But since we came back with a thousand dollars, I think at least 100 will make things fair. The bigger issue is we keep running into the situations like this because our finances are separate, even though we make similar incomes and have similar debt. Thanks for all your help. So I have the text exchange.
- [35:47]
B
And.
- [35:49]
A
Let me read the text between the two. Should we bring our own money? I just realized my parents are staying an extra week, so I don't want to rely on them solely. She writes, probably I don't want to go buy. Probably I don't want to go buy a ton though. Stickers for the girls, a shirt for our hat for Jordan, and then just what we eat and what we do for activities. I'm not trying to buy a ton of souvenirs or toys or anything. He writes back $500. And she writes, 500 is fine. Do you want me to Venmo you? 250 and you can do the exchange. So this is where we stand. Ashley. It sounds a little bizarre to me, this whole scenario. What would you. What would your thoughts be on this?
- [36:34]
B
Yes, I have a lot of thoughts. So it sounds like. So for I think from his perspective, he views it as like this was the cost of the trip and that's the end of it. Whereas she's still budgeted on the trip thinking like, I didn't spend it all. Something else I noticed with, I think it was the shoes that the girls needed. A lot of times like kid expenses become the mom's problem. I've noticed and it doesn't. It's not viewed as like a joint couple problem. It's like, oh, the mom's so spendy. Cause the. They need to go. She needs to go back to school shopping for the kids, right? Like the kids, there's often that labor.
- [37:08]
A
Well, it's as if the kids. You're. You're basically, I would say from the male point of view, it's like you're putting your needs of Fashion and keeping up with the Joneses on our kids, whereas I wouldn't necessarily need that. I could have them at school with burlap sacks on their feet and it wouldn't be an embarrassment to me, which isn't fair. I'm, I'm just, I, I, I, I, I understand the argument, but it is not correct. You know, like that's like, and we're not saying get the kids Gucci sandals.
- [37:44]
B
What it reminds me of is Eve Rodsky has. Right, right. And I think there's like a minimum. Like in Fair Play Evrodsky's book, you talk about a minimum. Oh, I forget the exact wording, but it's like a minimum. This would be like the minimum requirement of dressing our kids. Like the shoes might not be, we get new shoes every year or the shoes don't have holes, you know, like no burlap sacks. But you decide. And that's like this, that's both of you deciding and it's both your problem. Not just the mom. So that's one thing I noticed and I do see how much admin there is to keep this completely separate. And you know, they're married and so technically, you know, the things that are, they're, they're legally. Right. I, I'm not an attorney, but just there are joint things that are co owned. So this viewing of things as so separate is not technically real. Right. It's like how they're keeping track, but when they've commingled things, they're, they're joint assets. But I do think the third, the child. And this also depends if they have similar incomes and depends on what they've decided is fair. But his child that he has on his own I think should be separate from their expenses if we're doing like completely tit for tat. But I think I would look deeper into why we're doing tit for tat. And there's this feeling that she's being, she wants to get money that she's owed. And I think there's something there with that, like him holding the money and her asking for it. And so I can definitely see that there's tension.
- [39:14]
A
Definitely is like one of those things that you go, the hardest part about the money stuff is like when it's complicated because he's got this other kid with another marriage. So it's like that almost becomes like a shield for, for not having to talk about it. It's like, well, we can't have it joint because I have a third kid and there's no Way to do, you know, figure that out. So because of that, we're just going to not talk about it and you're going to have to have this, like, weird thing with me. Like, I. It feels like that's part of the problem.
- [39:47]
B
Right. And I was also curious when she was talking about the feasts, because this can happen in two different ways. Like, he did all the spending. Was she. What's. Her. And the kids, were they brought along for the fun and it. And because it was his choice, she felt like it was his spending or is like he going alone on feast on vacation. Like, I think sometimes this happens even with friendships. If someone makes a lot more money and they, like, want to go to the fancy hotel when you're on a trip and you don't need that, but, like, they want to. So how do you navigate that if you can't afford it or don't want to spend on that? And so that reminded me of this, where he's going to these feasts. But I'm assuming she. And she went too. But maybe she wouldn't have chosen that. So it felt like his spending.
- [40:28]
A
Let's do one more email. I love, I love that perspective. Because, like, that is, you know, the feasts, you're like, okay, well, you ate, you enjoyed it. You know, like, it goes back to, like, the kids. Like, they're your kids. You might not care about burlap sacks on their feet, but at a certain point you do want your kids to have shoes. Right? You know, like, you did eat and have fun here. Like, you could have stopped me before, right? You know, like, these are all things that we're like, we're not stopping it at the, at the, at the. Where it's the foundation. Like, this is all arguments that they're having after the fact that they, like, gotta get in front of.
- [41:07]
B
Right? Like, how many nice dinners do we want to go on have on this vacation? What are we, you know, spending on gifts? And maybe she feels like she has no control of what he's doing and he's not listening when she said, I don't think we should go to the feast. But I think you're right. Like, making that plan before or just generally deciding, like, what's important to us about a vacation. Like, is it the activities? Is it the. We want to be in a nice hotel, Is it. We want to. It's about the neighborhood. And there's compromise always because we're going to disagree or have things that are most important to us that will be different. But having that general idea before we go can be really.
- [41:42]
A
Okay. I love this question. We're going to do one more email, and then I want everyone to go follow at the Fiscal Femme. We're here with Ashley Feinstein Gersley. Go follow. She's fantastic. I love what you're saying here. The money parties is a great idea that feels very in line with the J Train universe and, you know, advice I've given and, you know, not taken sometimes. So I like it. So. All right, ready? My sister is getting married next year, and I'm planning the bachelorette party. Probably 10 to 15 women with good jobs all around age 33. I'm curious about your approach to planning where we stay. More specifically, how to collect money from the attendees. My sister wants Puerto Rico. Great. But how do I determine the lodging budget? Do I first collect money from everyone? Do I pick a place, then ask for money later? Do I ask about people's budgets? Or do I get a commitment list and then set the budget myself? I know everyone just getting a hotel room would solve this whole issue. But she's set on a big house. I'm trying to avoid putting my car down and chasing people for months. From my experience, whoever fronts the deposit, I always ends up shortchanged somehow, which is fine, but I'd like to minimize it. Thanks for your honest, practical advice and for always adding levity to any situation. Not trying to be cheap, but kind of being cheap. So what do you think?
- [43:13]
B
Definitely get the money before. So I'd say I think it's on both ends. Right. It's so nice as an attendee of a bachelorette, which I love this question so much because she's being so thoughtful about it, is knowing what I'm going into, like, more than just the. More than just the housing, of course, like, the little things. We don't know what dinner will be exactly, but, like, knowing the kind of restaurants, like, are we doing any expensive activities? So I would say it's hard to. You can ask about budget in advance, like what people want to spend, but I think it would be easier to essentially find kind of the house that her sister would love that she thinks is great and say this is what it would cost to get an idea and just see how many. I know it's hard to not know. If you get an idea of who thinks they can come, but then give them an idea of price, then they can fully commit and then make sure they pay you before that, like paying for their piece, at least for those things you've already put down is your way of having them actually confirm and book. Because I think people are excited. They'll say yes. But then when it comes to transfer the money, like, maybe it's a tight month or they forgot about something and they're, you know, and you don't want to be stuck with that bill. So I think giving a couple options even, or having an idea of what you want and saying it'll be this much per person, ish. Are you.
- [44:35]
A
To me, every good bachelor party I've gone on had a great itinerary and was a lot of work for someone. Not necessarily. Not me, but someone had to put work in before the trip to make the bachelor party great. And like, you've written two books, Ashley, when you wrote the book, you did the outline first, right? You do that outline and you get really in depth with an outline, I think. And then. Then the book kind of flows from there. It's a lot of work after that. But, like, that outline, that's the spine of that book. And I think, like, if I was this woman, what you're. And I'm not saying it's got to be a big itinerary. Let's. Let's call it Thursday through Sunday in Puerto Rico. I'm going to need. And you're doing a house. So, like, we've decided she wants a house. We're going Thursday through Sunday to Puerto Rico. Get yourself there. That's not her responsibility. So let's think of her responsibilities. They arrive, there's going to be so groceries for the house. The house, one dinner, one daytime activity. That's what I would count on me doing. So I would say, you know, Friday, we're going to do a beach day. You're on your own. Friday night we're going to have our big dinner. Saturday, we're having our big boat day. And so you're, you know, and then I would give three prices. I think when you give people three options, the expectations set, and then you vote on it as a group. And now when the vote happens and you present like it's going to be around. And again, approximations. If we do this house with this boat and these groceries, this is option A. If we do this house with this boat and these groceries, option B. And then option C. And then here are the options for the restaurants that I'm choosing between. This is the nice one. This is the medium one. This is the, you know, the less one. And if you do that, I think that sets up for all the fun and craziness to happen in between if you get serious with this itinerary, things are good and if you vote on it, then people go, I. If someone loses the vote now, they can go, well, I wasn't comfortable before and I'm still not. So I'm going to gracefully bow out. It seems as though I've lost to the numbers of the group. That's okay. But it gives them an opportunity to do that before people say, and then I have a drop dead date for when you can pay me. Beyond that, we're going to have to make some changes with the house. Like, I think that would set us up for success.
- [47:28]
B
Yes. I love that. And I think it's, it's beneficial for. I know it's a lot of work, so much work. The planner, but the people who are attending, they know going in how much it's going to cost. Ish. Which I think sometimes you think, oh, just the house and just the flight and then there's these activities that are hundreds of dollars and so it can be a shock and it can.
- [47:47]
A
That's where people get angry. They go, well, I didn't know about the boat and I didn't know about the dinner at this nice place. And it's like, no, we're going to, like, we're going to find this out before we even go. You're going to be within, you know, if you do it that way, you're basically going to be within 300 bucks of what you end up spending the whole weekend. Like, you can't really get too far away from your expectation. And I think anyone who's spending, you know, the 1500 to go and do the weekend for their friend, which seems like the general kind of price of admission of a travel bachelorette party is okay with it being 1600 and not disappointed by the person or feels taken advantage of. I think, I think people feel taken advantage of on these bachelorette parties where they're like, I'm not even a friend and I thought I was, you know, it's like, well, let me make the numbers real, you know, Right.
- [48:38]
B
And if you can't go, it's okay. And, and hopefully that the friend is understanding if someone can't make it. I'm also a big proponent of setting aside money over time for travel. So you could have a fund called the bachelorette fund, the travel fund, and then the week's paychecks leading up putting money aside in there. It's kind of doing it for you if you have to pay for some things before, but just setting the money aside so that when it's time to book something or time to send the money over, it's there waiting for you, and you're not, like, scrambling, pulling from savings, putting it on a credit card, trying to figure out, this is why.
- [49:13]
A
I'm a big proponent of the house for the bachelor bachelorette party, even. There's only one reason I like the house idea is you can be like, and we need a grocery fund, and you go 50 bucks a person for the groceries. And what people don't realize is, like, everyone talks about how expensive groceries are, but, like, you get 50 bucks a person from 15 people, you got a good wad of cash, People are going to generally get money back from that. Like, you know, you don't have to spend that all you can put that towards alcohol. People are going to be like, what we, we have, we have all this white claw. Like, people are going to be, like, more excited and happy with what happened.
- [49:51]
B
Right, Versus, like, buying the $10 water. Exactly.
- [49:55]
A
Ashley, this was fantastic. I'm so happy. I'm so happy you came on. This was fantastic. Everyone, go follow Ashley at the fiscal femme. Go buy her books. We got to have you back. This was so great. I'm so happy you could come on.
- [50:11]
B
I would love it. Thank you. This was so fun. And also, I'm working on a new project that I think you all would love. It's called how do you afford this? And it's a new handle. And essentially, I've been asking people in the streets how they afford different things. So maybe you and I should go and talk about relationships and how people are affording. I did interview a guy about gifts for his girlfriend and how he was affording it and budgeting for it. But, like, I've been doing rent, housing, vacations, just shopping. So it's been really fun, and I think it's very helpful because we often compare ourselves with each other, and you don't realize, like, someone had their house paid for or someone is saving up for this and not doing something else. And so it's not to, to, it's to show under the hood of, like, what people are actually spending and how they're.
- [50:55]
A
I love that. I definitely would find it funny if someone was, like, just held up a pair a picture of their parents that are dead. They're like, yeah, this is how the, the inheritance. That's how, you know, like, oh, okay, cool. We all feel better now. I mean, I, I, I think I tweeted something about that subject just being like, there should be some sort of, like, we should go to these influencers and just be like, walk us through this. You know, like, I, like I know what the podcast pays. Why don't you walk us through this and then just see what happens after that? Like, I, I, I can tell you there's a lot of influences that would not go on that show. I think you might have trouble booking them, but I love this idea. This is great.
- [51:43]
B
I know. I'm curious how many people I would have to do anonymously, but I, it started because I would just be on Instagram, like, how are people doing this? Like, how are they in Europe? How do they have a house in the Hamptons? Like, how, how do they buy 400 shirts? So I'm just curious, and I'm sure if I am, others are too. So influencers would be great because I'm very curious what they're getting free versus what they're spending.
- [52:05]
A
Listen, I, I can't wait to see who says no to this. That, that's the list. I want to see the, the nos. Ashley, thank you for coming on. We'll be back next week. Boom.