← The JTrain Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Chit Chat Wednesday for you to listen to. I have a guess who will be your new boo. You're gonna love them too. Chit Chat Wednesday. I hope you're having a good day today. I hope it's gonna be a perfect week too. I hope you have a nice poo. It's a Ch Chat Wednesday too. Hello and welcome to the J Train podcast. This is Jay Train, Jared Freed coming alive from Kansas City, Missouri. That's right, every Wednesday is a Chit Chat Wednesday where I sit down with a friend, a comedian, an expert. Today we have all three. They are a comedian, writer, Emmy winner with the TV show last week. Tonight, they are a friend. Over the last, I would say year, they've become a friend, which I'll say it. I'll, I'll, I'll take the first step in saying that we're friends. And I would say they're an expert in Midwest culture. The hilarious Taylor K. Phillips. Thank you for coming on the show.
- [01:25]
B
Hello. Thank you for having me and thank you for, for coming to our fair city of Kansas.
- [01:30]
A
Well, we're here so to let people behind the curtain. We are here in Kansas City and you are from here and you and I. So let's give everyone the full story. Taylor K. Phillips has a book out that you can go buy right now. We want you to go buy her book. It is called A Guide to Midwestern Conversation. We're going to get into that in a second, but we were kind of fixed up to help choose to help me write my book. I'll give the story. Basically, I have a book coming out in June 2026. I've talked about it here and there and I remember. So then I, I like the big part of the book and Taylor, everyone should go buy your book. A Guide to Midwestern Conversation. Taylor's incredibly funny. There's a link in the description of this episode. You know more than me that a book takes a very in depth outline. Like that's the first thing you do, right?
- [02:23]
B
Yes, it is. It. Books are so long that you can't just do piecemeal with them. You have to have some type of guardrails. Otherwise you are just like, it's like you have walked around a dinner party telling lots of people different stories and then someone says, how did the night go? And you're like, it was good. And you can't, you can't accurately distill.
- [02:44]
A
It like a map. So they, so when I first got this book opportunity, I'm sitting with the editor doing the outline and they're like. And it takes us like, a month and a half. Like, it's not like putting a outline together to do this podcast that I jot down in my notebook. It's like a thorough outline. So that was difficult. And then the editor, who I love and is great, was like, okay, get writing. Let's do page one. And I go to Denver. This is, like, a couple years ago now. I've already been back to Denver for shows I'll never forget. I'm in Denver the whole week. I'm writing this first page. I'm hemming and hawing, and I'm miserable, and I hate it. And I'm like, is this what it's gonna be? Like, am I gonna be every night of my life, I'm just gonna be miserable? And I finally get done with this first page of what we were writing, and I send it to her, and she's like, within five minutes, emails back, we need a ghostwriter. And I'm like, I was embarrassed. I'm like, oh, God, I just tried to do this. I thought I could do this. And I didn't talk to the editor for, like, a month. I was like, I'm not talking to you. I'm done. I'm backing away. And then you start the process. We gotta hire a ghostwriter. And my first thing, I was like, I want a comedian. You know? And you were pitched to me, and here we are a year later with a finished book. How do I get pitched to you? Like, what do they say to you?
- [04:14]
B
Well, so I will also say that I think ghostwriter is a term that people use. In my experience, when, like, what would happen is you and I would sit in a room, you would talk at me, and I would try to, from that mess, put something together. And I want to give you a little bit more credit that I think that I was, like, I was a little bit more of a book coach or like a translator almost, because converting mediums is very difficult. Like, stuff that you could say in a sentence on stage or that you could convey with a look or a pause doesn't work as well, right when you're. When you're on the written page and you are a very busy man and you have all of these ideas that could make a book. But, you know, certainly it is not. Like, you don't have time to create a book and also learn how to write a book because you're a professional in, like, many other areas of your life.
- [05:14]
A
And.
- [05:14]
B
And you wrote a lot of stuff. Like, we did not jump on zooms. And then you just word vomited at me. I did not. Like, it wasn't like me going into the podcast archive and being like. And then maybe this is what Jared thinks. This could be a book. Like, you wrote stuff and then I made a book.
- [05:34]
A
Well, you're. You're taking away. I. I hope people understand. This is. I think we were like a great duo. I think this is like. And I need. And I need you to go. I'm going to put you on. I'm going to take that clip and I'm going to send it to my dad. Because my dad, from the minute I started doing this book, he's like, what are you writing? War and Peace. How long does this take? And you don't know how to write a book? I have, like, he's the devil on my shoulder telling me how much I'm not gonna do this.
- [05:58]
B
Like, it's so. It's so funny. And the other. The thing. Another way that I would explain it, that just came to me. We're evolving. This is why we have a room is I'm ghostwriter in the way. Like the movie where there's a ghost behind you making the thing. Like, your hands are on it. Like, you're. You're touching the clay and it's me behind you being like. And then we go up and we'll make the little ridges because people can't drink out of it if you stick your thumb in it.
- [06:29]
A
If this.
- [06:30]
B
And I have not. Oh, no. I was just gonna say I have not seen the movie. I've only seen the scene and heard it reference. So that's like my best idea about that scene is that they are trying to make a vessel from which I think you're right. Is the.
- [06:42]
A
Is the premise of that made total sense to me. It is. And if this podcast was like a very dude heavy audience, some rando in his basement would make a picture of you and I on the ghost poster and. But that's not what this show is. Our audience is a upscale, ritzy crowd. So I. Well, I appreciate that also.
- [07:05]
B
We can just take one.
- [07:06]
A
We can. Yeah, we'll do that picture.
- [07:07]
B
We'll take one when the book comes out. We'll just do it.
- [07:10]
A
We're here. So you're helping me with the book. It has been a you and I can't thank. I've thanked you, but I can't thank you enough for our. I mean, like, now people are starting to read it and they're like, it's funny. It's actually good. And I'm like, holy, this is like a real thing. Like, I, you know, because a lot of times, you know, I'm just like, you know, and we worked out a schedule and all that stuff. But I, I do want to come back to what did, did they say to you? Like, this idiot has a book he's doing. Like, what do they say to you?
- [07:40]
B
My agent was like, how do you feel about, you know, like, again, not really ghostwriting this kind of like book coaching relationship. And I was like, tell me more about it. And she explains to me what ghostwriting is normally. And it was, sorry, I have the smallest ears. And nobody actually believes me when my, when my earbuds fall out. They think I'm being a diva, but I have medically small ears, so.
- [08:14]
A
But what a hilarious issue. Have made a difference. Like 20 years ago, it wouldn't matter. You know, you'd be like, you'd have the ear muff headphones. And nowadays it's like, the world was not built for you, you know, it's crazy.
- [08:28]
B
It's not. And it's like that I long for the days of the old ones. For whatever reason, the old ones are work and people like. But you can get the new noise canceling ones. And I was like, they won't cancel noise because they will be on the.
- [08:39]
A
Ground in 15 seconds, especially with sweating come out when they sweat. And it's like miserable. Okay, so it's.
- [08:47]
B
No. So my agent is like, you know, what do you think about it? And I said, I'm very interested. I like writing. And what she kind of explained and what I learned now is that because it's something that I'm interested in doing and I love to write and I love to write jokes and I love to have options. But I kind of asked how it would go. And what she described to me was actually very different than what happened. And I know that in the future I'm going to be so spoiled by our.
- [09:26]
A
I hope that's the case. I hope I'm not a pain in the ass.
- [09:30]
B
Well, and like in any other situation, right, where like, I am bring being brought in to help someone, I would be being brought in to help them be funny. Right? Like you're bringing me into, you know, someone's memoir who, like, wants jokes also, I will also say, to give you a little bit more credit, very few people are, like, open about this. Most people are like, I need the world to think that I, I, yeah, I've seen, I've seen like, just me.
- [10:01]
A
I'VE seen how that looks on other people, and it's not a good look to me. I, I, and also, like, I, I do. I'm a collaborative person. I love, like, coming up with, like, being like, hey, someone says, I have a note for this bit. Like, that's like, my favorite part of doing comedy. Like, like adding on and, like, figuring it out. Like, the, the comedy. I've been coming, like, in this last year, people have asked me a lot about being a comedian, and I'm sure you get asked that all the time as well, but it's like, I'm always not my new answer for, like, they're like, what do you love about it? I'm like, I love the puzzle. Like, figuring it out. This is one big puzzle. It's every day it works my brain, I get this, like, satisfaction when it does work, you know, like, and I don't know, I, I don't have that. I have an ego. That ego isn't in this way. You know what I mean?
- [10:53]
B
Totally. And, and I think that's part of the reason why we worked so well together is because we in, in my house, my husband's also a comedy writer. We call it joke math, where it's like, okay, you're, you know, you know, kind of the structure. You're figuring out your, your coefficients and your variables and something that comes when you are writing in a joke structure, but for another person is every once in a while, I would text you and be like, this is the structure I have, but I need a specific from your life. So, like, here's something we're going to talk about. You know, before we really knew each other, I was like, and then, what's your basketball team? Because I'm going to put their venue in here in this joke, like, as a specific. But also, I was like, this was not me pitching jokes, which would be any other ghostwriting situation. And I remember one time I texted you and I said some. I said something like, well, I'm thinking about doing this to this chapter. And then that would be a fun callback run. And I just said that. And you said, yes, totally. And I turned to my husband and I was like, I'm never gonna have this again. No other person who I work on a project with is gonna know. They're gonna say, what are you talking about? No, I don't want to call anybody. I want to write a book. Why are we calling?
- [12:07]
A
I knew exactly where you were talking about, what you were talking about. No explanation needed. You know, the callback, like, that's the language. It's the, you know, it's in the life of a comedian. It's the, it's in the blood type of thing.
- [12:20]
B
Right. And like the other thing not to be like I, you know, and we've had this, we've had this experience in publishing too where you know, we're both in places where we're not necessarily the authority. Right. When you're on the road, kind of the audience tells you what they think is funny. In my job, my bosses tell me what they think is funny and then, then the audiences do and in books, you know, they're just like haha, that works, that's great. And I'm like, we don't know, like where are the grown ups?
- [12:49]
A
Like Right, right. You know, it's a quiet, it's a quiet lonely process that. And I think from my end too like the amount of like, you know, you know, the way we worked it out for the audience and this might be interest, I think this would be interesting to hear is like, you know, I'm writing a dating book and I wanted, I wanted a comedian and I wanted, I also wanted a woman to help me with the book because I was like, I'm a guy talking about dating. I want to put this through like you're saying an audience, like I want someone to say no, that's, no, don't say that, that's crazy. What do you mean by that? Press me like where, where is this supposed to go? What, where, what are you trying to say here? And it's like I have that with you up and Jordana, my co host where you know, I always say like the, the, the power of that show is like, it's an uncomfortable conversation had comfortably and it's like that's kind of what I was looking for in the ghost writing experience and figuring out this puzzle, the book, the, the that the book is so. It's just been wonderful. Not to be dramatic, but your gut has a massive impact on how you feel each day. Bioma keeps things in tip top shape so you can feel your best no matter what life throws your way. Byoma's symbiotic blend. Prebiotics plus probiotics plus postbiotics helps restore a healthy microbiome. It's not just about smooth and regular digestion. Your gut can mess with your hormone levels, energy, weight management and even lifespan. You're gonna want to give Byoma a try and get things sorted in there. I am using Byoma. I'm taking it daily. I love it. I have to say I'm having like, and I'm not trying to get too personal here. I'm having some like, day changing bathroom experiences. I am like, it feels like I'm just flushing out my system. I feel good. I don't feel like I got this extra weight in my tummy. I. I feel like I'm moving more svelte, if that makes any sense. I feel just less bloated. And I think you're gonna enjoy bioma in the way I have too. So if your gut is full of the wrong bacteria, get byoma and get it together. I'm taking it. It's two pills and it's goes with my, you know, my morning. It's become part of my routine. Take 15% off your bioma order when you press in the code jtrain@gobioma.com J train that's code J train for 15% off your order@gobioma.com J Train. It's just been wonderful. It's been like. And I'm like. And it also was painstaking, but not from you. You made it easier. Like, I, I mean, like, reviewing each chapter, there's personal stories and going back and thinking of these stories was like, brutal for me. Now I'm like, I didn't think it was going to be that way, of course.
- [15:59]
B
And, and it's, it's fascinating to get per, like personal with someone that quickly and in that way because there, to an extent initially, when you're commenting on somebody offering a personal story and also having to tell them whether or not they're getting their point across, like, on one hand, I don't know you like that, and on the other hand, I'm the only person who knows you like that.
- [16:27]
A
Now you do that.
- [16:28]
B
Right? And so it's like, it's, you know, in this, in this story, what I think you're trying to get across is this. And so the, we got to put that in this chapter. And it's so mechanical. Meanwhile, the, the chapter is a little bit. You being like. And the way that I've chosen to live my life just kind of leaves me at this crossroads. And I'm here like, can we talk about how you're kind of reflecting on all of your life decisions and whether or not they actually make you happy. And I think maybe if we move that to the end of the chapter, people will really feel it. Like, there's something very callous about it.
- [17:04]
A
Right. But. And again, like, I'm realizing right now this book is gonna be that, like, I'M not even, like. Like, I. I think of, like, the funny fart stories and the advice section, but, like, to make the advice work. Because that's the thing with dating advice and with dating commentary. It's all diet and exercise. Everyone said what's been said. And, you know, I think the personal stories kind of, like, give, you know, vulnerability to this, to realize that, like, you're not alone and all these feelings that someone had that's reading it. You know, you've had someone else's felt and. All right, well, enough about this book that is not even out because you have a book that's out.
- [17:42]
B
Well, also, I want to say one more thing about your book, because I do want to. I do want to gas you up here a little bit, which is that you. You have been doing this for so long, and I. We're friends now. You said it. You broke the seal.
- [17:57]
A
I said it. I broke it.
- [17:58]
B
Absolutely never heard of you before. They were like, do you want to. You know what I mean? Like, I was totally new to you and all of your stuff, and I really liked it. And I was able to. I think something that was interesting, bringing a new person is. I was like, no, these. These vocabulary words that you're using are very useful and helpful and should be disseminated because we are like, you can start new vocabulary stuff. And I don't want to, you know, I don't want to spoil anything, because by the book, in June, everybody get excited and mark your calendars. But there are things that, like, I would use that you said and either had words for or didn't quite have words for. And you and I figured out, like, a term for that I now carry with me forever because they make sense. And, like, it's like, they make sense. It's we. How to. Okay, how to. You know, the. Again, without spoiling anything. But it's like, we get rid of the define the relationship conversation and replace it with something that makes a lot more sense. And you talk about what ghosting is. Like, here's what ghosting is, you know, And I think that coming into it new, you'd been talking about this for a long time, and I felt like I was able to help you a little bit realize how much sense what you're saying makes.
- [19:23]
A
I appreciate that. And especially it was like, oh, I. You know, it's hard to go back. Be like, oh, that was like, first year stuff I talked about. I'm done with that chapter. But then you have to go back and do that chapter. Like, yes, you Know. And I'm telling you about it. You're like, oh, the reveal. And I'm like, yeah, we talked about that for years. Like, it's over. And you're like, it's not over. We gotta. We gotta bring that back.
- [19:44]
B
And I'm like, okay, yeah, the reveal is the thing. The reveal is. It's. It's one of the. It's like, take your medicine. This is how you do it. And you say it in the book. You're like, you're going to get an answer. It might not be the one you want to get. You're going to get an answer.
- [19:59]
A
Reveal. Reveals. That's what it. That's why it has that name. So. Okay, well, you have a great book that's out right now, A Guide to Midwestern Conversation. My first question with A guide to Midwestern Conversation. You're from Kansas City. So I was coming here doing shows. I'm like, come open the shows. Your mom and sister were there. Your dad's coming. He does stand up, which is, like, the coolest thing ever. Why did you feel. What was the goal? What made you go? I got. Do you think Midwestern people are misunderstood?
- [20:32]
B
I think yes. And I think that I would not have been able to write the book if I'd stayed here the whole time. I could really only write it when I came back. And it's the thing about the way that Midwesterners talk about is that other people talk about it. Like we are using euphemisms. Or they say it's like, oh, it's Midwestern. Nice. Midwesterners are kind of lying to you, but they mean something different. And I think that that's not true. We are saying what we mean, but this is how we say it. So it's like, the example I use is, like, you would never say that. The French say bonjour as a euphemism for hello. Right.
- [21:16]
A
Right.
- [21:16]
B
That is the way that they say it. So. Because everybody knows what we mean. So if I say, like, that person is a character. I am not. I am not. Like, I'm not speaking in code. I am saying in my Midwestern language. That woman is absolutely batshit. And we are all just, like, witnessing whatever we're about to witness, you know?
- [21:45]
A
Right. I. So I have a quiz for you. This is the first ever J train quiz you lead us into, because I went and goo. I did some googling. I did some research before this, and there was one. I want you to translate these Midwestern phrases. Tell us what these mean. Okay. Yeah. No, no.
- [22:11]
B
That means no.
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A
That's. You're right. Correct. That's a total no. So I didn't know that was a Midwest thing. So. Yeah, no is a total no.
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B
Total. No. 100%. Yeah.
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A
Say. So I guess I would ask you, is there any. I don't know, is there any cookies left?
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B
Yeah. No.
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A
Okay. Okay. Okay. Here's another one. You know, it's like, what is it like?
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B
It's a. It's affirming you and then giving you the answer. It's like, yeah, you asked a good question, and I appreciate it. And the answer is no.
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A
That is the perfect explanation. Okay, now here's the next one. No. Yeah.
- [22:49]
B
Yes. That means yes. That's affirmative. Yes.
- [22:51]
A
Okay. Okay, so.
- [22:54]
B
Yeah, we could do that.
- [22:56]
A
No, yeah, we could do that. Yeah, I love it. Okay, so. Yeah. Do you guys have vanilla for the iced coffee?
- [23:07]
B
No. Yeah, we've got. We've got. We've got everything you need, but we've got vanilla, right? No. Yeah, we do.
- [23:13]
A
Okay. Okay. You ready? Now they're gonna get harder.
- [23:16]
B
Okay.
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A
Yeah, no, yeah, yeah.
- [23:20]
B
No, yeah, yes, that's a. That's affirmative.
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A
Okay, you got it. Correct. It is affirmative. And the way that was described on this quick Reddit search.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, who knows? It's. Unfortunately, it's the truth.
- [23:38]
B
Yes, absolutely. So it would be. It would be like, I. I went.
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A
It's gonna rain. Is it gonna rain today?
- [23:48]
B
Yeah. No. Yeah.
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A
So unfortunately. Yeah.
- [23:54]
B
No. Yeah. Mm. And sometimes it's a. Sometimes it's. They like, we want to be able to tell you what you want to hear. So it would be like, you'd be walking to someone. Be like, are you guys. Are you guys out of the size 10? Yeah, no. Yeah, we are. You know.
- [24:13]
A
Ooh. That's like a roller coaster ride of a phrase.
- [24:16]
B
It's a roller coaster. It's a roller coaster.
- [24:19]
A
All right, let's do one more. One last one. No, yeah, no.
- [24:24]
B
No. Yeah, no, that's like. That's a little bit. I'm trying to be nice, but you shouldn't have fucking asked the question.
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A
Wow, you're so right. Is my interpretation undeniably no.
- [24:40]
B
Yeah.
- [24:41]
A
Yeah. So you're right.
- [24:42]
B
It would be. You know, it would be like. It would be kind of somebody coming up to you in the middle of the street and being like, can you come and do. Can you come and do stand up at my daughter's birthday party right now? You'd be like, no. Yeah, no. Yeah, no, I'm busy. You know, is my kids invited to Your wedding. It's like, but my kids can come to your wedding. Right? I know. It says no kids.
- [25:09]
A
No. Yeah, no, that's it. See, is. Is. Is. So is the whole Midwestern thing, and based on you. You nailed the quiz. You got everyone right. You're a true Midwesterner. Is. Is that where the Minnesota nice. The Midwestern nice comes from? Is that like. Basically, like, we're doing a lot of softening and people pleasing while also telling you exactly what we mean?
- [25:32]
B
Yes, I think. I think that the. Well, I think we are nice. You know, I think that.
- [25:40]
A
Yeah, I think Midwestern people are nice. I agree. Like, the. The. It's not a fake nice. I hate that. No, like, as if there's, like a big brooding asshole beneath. It's like. No, that's not what it is. Right.
- [25:53]
B
No, it's. It's that there is a way to behave and communicate. But it's. But like, I think that sometimes when people. When people talk about us, there's this. There's this implicit kind of, like, simplicity. Like, they're so nice because they don't feel the full range of human emotions. And you know what I mean? So it's like. It's like, well, Midwesterners, they're so nice. They're actually. They don't get mad. They like, they just. They. They never get mad or mean. And it's like, no, we. We absolutely do. We just behave. Like, it's kind of the vibe.
- [26:28]
A
Like, right, there's. You're living within the. The lines, you know, like, coloring in the lines. You know, like, there's like, we're being angry, but in the polite, classy way that anger should be shown and not erratically. Like, you know, even, like the definition of a character. Like, to me, a character is just a character. You're like, no, no, no. This person is making themselves into a cartoon.
- [26:53]
B
Correct. And the other thing, I think. And I think the best example is actually the Southern bless your heart, but the extremity is the same. Like, it's just that people aren't used to. Or if you're not from here, you. It feels like a euphemism to you because it's not the way that you would speak. But if, like, down in the south and you said bless your heart, again, that is not a euphemism for you. You have just told someone to go themselves. And, like, if you're. If you're in the Midwest and you say, like, oh, that's different. You have just said, what? Holy fucking hell hath the good Lord wrought. And everybody knows that that's what you've said. Like, you are not pulling a punch. You are Midwestern punching. You know, Like, I think that's the big difference is it's like, Minnesota nice is not. Oh, they're also nice. It's that the. The. I'm trying to think, like, the floor and ceiling of the actual words that they use are different, so you have to calibrate, but the extremity is the same.
- [28:09]
A
When you moved to New York, were you, like, looking for Midwestern people, or were you, like, kind of like, you know, I've had it with the Midwest. Was. And then you came back to it. Like, what was the feeling when you got to New York?
- [28:24]
B
I have always. I have always felt straddling for a long time. Basically, I think that I am, like, the nicest girl in New York and a cutthroat bitch in the Midwest. And so, like, in the Midwest, I am intense, and in New York, I am like a bubbly, soft weirdo, in a good way.
- [28:52]
A
But I get that completely. Like, my mom is from the Midwest, and no one knows that because she has assimilated so much over the years. And, like, I think, you know, way back when, when she grew up in. Outside of Detroit, I'm like, man, I'm sure, like, I think of her, like, living in Detroit as like, a, you know, a high school kid. Like, I'm like, they must have not been able to believe her. Like. Like. Like, I'm seeing, you know, now she's a Northeast, you know, woman, you know, probably more than other Northeast women. But, like, I'm just thinking of, like, when that person was there. Like, they must have been like, again, she must have been a character, you know, like, that was what they would probably describe her as. Like, I. I can't imagine what that, like, what their view of it was.
- [29:41]
B
Yeah, and it's. It's. I mean, again, nobody would ever say anything. They're just like, oh, you know, she's. She. She's in quite a hurry, or. She's really focused. Taylor's very focused, very driven. She's very driven.
- [29:56]
A
Did you get that a lot growing up?
- [29:59]
B
Yes. I mean, I think that the other kind of thing about you kind of have to layer the, like, being a woman onto it, where there was. There were some teachers, so many teachers that I had that were like, you know, this bitch, mouthy and crazy, and we love her. And I would never, like. I would never tell her to sit down and shut up. And luckily, that was that was the teachers and the people that I interacted with basically my entire life until I was a teenager. And by that point, no one could tell me to sit down and shut up. But that's when. That's when people kind of started trying to kind of tell me to be quiet under the guise of kind of societal standards.
- [30:50]
A
Politeness is that kind of politeness.
- [30:53]
B
Being ladylike, being mature, which was something that was leveled at, in my experience, women and not men like language.
- [31:07]
A
That is maturity. That's something that I feel here. Like being in Kansas City. Like, the men are kind of allowed to be football boys, will be boys in a way that is like. It is a stark difference. You can feel that, like, you know, even, like, you know, we get at shows. You get shows that people you relate to more than others. And you see like the couple in the front, and it's like she's dressed. Even the dress, like, she's dressed like, properly for a night out. And. And he's in a chief sweatshirt with, like, jeans. You like, that haven't been washed in a week. And you're like, that's a mature. Like. Like one has been told be right and the other has been told, ah, you know, whatever. It's Saturday night, you know, a comedy club. It seems like two different rules.
- [32:01]
B
It really does. I mean, I. I in high school, like, said a swear and got in such big trouble. Like the. The amount of kind of hand wringing and meetings and I had to do 50 hours of community service. And like, it was huge thing first where. And the. The same year, at the end of the year, one boy punched another boy in the face at school and got five hours of community service.
- [32:43]
A
I mean, that's crazy. That, like the actual assault and they're like, you know, go to the soup kitchen for a minute and you're good.
- [32:50]
B
Yeah, it was. And that I think is. Was the weird difference was that there were. It's like, it's what you said about the maturity. It's. There was a sense of like, I should know better, but also if I knew too much better, I was being disrespectful and like, I'm a child, you know?
- [33:11]
A
Yeah, I. That. That feels. You can feel that in the atmosphere. So. Okay, I want to play a fun game before we go because I. I got a games prepared specifically for Taylor K. Phillips, which you can all follow. Go follow Taylor K. Phillips on Instagram on all the socials I will share with this episode. The book is called A Guide to Midwestern Conversation. Go buy it make it. It is a perfect gift. Coffee table book. It's beautiful. It's cool. Go get it. Okay, ready? This is called Midwest or Mid Best. Okay. You're gonna tell me whether these Midwestern things are just, yeah, fine, or it's the mid best.
- [33:53]
B
Okay, I'm ready.
- [33:55]
A
And Mid best is a lot like. Yeah, no, yeah. I didn't realize until I read it just now. Okay, and you're gonna tell me why.
- [34:02]
B
It'S not saying that they're mid. It's not a head.
- [34:05]
A
Not saying it's mid. I know. The minute I said it out loud, I wrote it down. I was like, mid best. You're a genius, Jared. This goes back to the book writing where I'm like, oh, man, you're killing it. And I was like, mid best. That sounds like it's the mid at best. Okay, so. Well, now let's change the name. Okay. Okay, we're gonna change it to this is the Best or mid at Best.
- [34:28]
B
Great. Love it. Perfect.
- [34:31]
A
Puppy Chow.
- [34:33]
B
The fucking best.
- [34:35]
A
The best.
- [34:36]
B
Have you ever had it?
- [34:38]
A
So I have had Puppy Chow. To me, it's funny, when I went and looked up, I was like, Midwestern things. Puppy Chow to me was like. But it also is more mid Midwest. To me, it was more like, Irish Catholic. You're in the basement of, like, a church. To me, like, it, like, it was very. Puppy Chow is the least Jewish snack I can think of because it is absolutely delicious. It's messy, it's fattening, it's bad for you. It's carbs, it's chocolate, it's sugar. It's all the things that my mom would go, you can't have too much of that. And I remember, like, the non Jewish kids would have it, like, as a snack in a Ziploc bag leftover from the weekend in there. Like, packed lunch. And I'd be sitting there with, like, carrot sticks and hummus.
- [35:26]
B
Well, the other thing about Puppy Chow, that is, it is a nightmare to make. It is. It is as messy to make as it is to eat, because you do peanut butter on the Chex mix and you're stirring. We had. In second grade at my school, there was. Every year was the rainforest bake sale. You did a bake sale and you saved the rainforest highly second grade. Everyone raced to get there because, like, you know, three or four kids would make Puppy Chow, and it was always gone immediately. And, like, I remember coming home being like, I want to be one of the kids to make Puppy Chow. It is such a mess. So It's.
- [36:04]
A
What is it? Can you explain it? Because I. I just know it as something I've stuffed in my mouth quickly so that my mom wouldn't catch me.
- [36:11]
B
So it is Rice Chex, peanut butter, chocolate, and powdered sugar.
- [36:18]
A
All the best things. All the best things.
- [36:21]
B
It's on. It's unreal. And the. It's so. And it is one of those things that. Like that. When I left, I found out it was a midwestern thing. I was like, how on earth it's not everywhere?
- [36:36]
A
Well, now you. Well, it's kind of the sad part and the great part about life in 2025 is like, Chex Mix does make a version that you can buy at the airport, but, like, that just makes it nationalized and not as great. Like, I love the fact that it's from here.
- [36:55]
B
If you did not. If you did not throw a tantrum because your mom made you clean up the kitchen after making it, you are not eating puppy Chow.
- [37:05]
A
Right here to be shed. Right?
- [37:08]
B
Yes.
- [37:08]
A
Okay. Okay. Midwest or mid at best? Or the best or minute best or Midwest or mid at best? Okay.
- [37:16]
B
Okay.
- [37:17]
A
Cornhole.
- [37:20]
B
I like cornhole. I think cornhole is fun. I think in terms of a party game, it. I can see. I would say it's mid at best. And they're gonna come for me, but.
- [37:36]
A
I think it's okay because I'm gonna back you up. I'm gonna give a good reason, but please go on.
- [37:41]
B
Well, you. You're far away from what you're doing. And like, every once in a while I watched recently I saw Professional cornhole.
- [37:52]
A
Yeah.
- [37:53]
B
Being played. And that shit is wild. It's fun. It's a fun compet. Like, yard games are dangerous for me because I get insane. And like, I try to be cool, but, like, I, you know, I play with someone's unathletic partner and then I just lock my jaw the whole time, trying to pretend like I don't care. And it's supposed to be a fun game, but, yeah, you get into it. Yeah, but it's like, I like the reason.
- [38:19]
A
Here's the reason. Cornhole is mid at best. Okay. Horseshoes is a better game. Horseshoe. Tell me is more fun. It you have the weight of a metal object that you're throwing across a yard. You hear when you ring it, when you get it around the. The stake, it makes a satisfying noise. It like, wraps around it. You get to do the measuring thing with the length of the horseshoes. I just think it's a more fun game that. And it also Takes less stuff. You know, you can clean up horseshoes in two seconds and then the dust flying in the air. I don't know. I think horseshoe. I think cornhole is a good game, but, like, we have a better game before this.
- [39:10]
B
Yeah. Here's the other thing. Cornhole is a vibe dependent, fun activity. Right. It's like, I'm not gonna, you know, it's like if we're like, if we're in the yard and there's, you know, like, we're all having Miller Lights and some people are watching the game and there's chips and we're outside and you throw a couple bags around or grab a team. Like, that is fun, but I would never be like, oh, thank God. At this intimate friendship gathering, there is cornhole available. Let's put in effort in order to participate in this.
- [39:44]
A
And it's way noisier. It's a. It's like all. All you hear is dung, dung, dung, dung. Yeah. All right, let's do. We'll do a couple more. Ready?
- [39:54]
B
Okay, I'm ready.
- [39:56]
A
Pop.
- [39:59]
B
So I. I don't know. This is part of the. Being in Kansas City, and specifically, if there are words that are debated, I do not know which one I use. I use every single one interchangeably. I mostly say soda, but I had friends pop.
- [40:22]
A
I didn't know if soda or pop was a Kansas City thing, because I know pop to me was always a Michigan thing. And I never. I didn't know if it. Like, I never knew someone from Cleveland who said pop, but I knew everyone in Detroit said pop.
- [40:41]
B
Yeah, it's. It's one of those ones that, like, gets touted as a debate that I don't think really exists. I think that's a little. That to me, feels a little bit like someone. Like someone on. On Twitter being like, monkey expert here. This monkey is actually in distress where it's somebody being like, I'm a human observer. And let me tell you, right now, in the Midwest, soda and pop is a big debate. And we're all kind of like, I don't know what you're talking about.
- [41:12]
A
Right. This isn't that big a deal. We just. Yeah, it gets said and it gets not. It's said and it's not said. Okay.
- [41:18]
B
Right.
- [41:18]
A
I like that. I've always enjoyed hearing pop because I just like local stuff. Like, I just. Yeah, I think, like. Like when someone says something different than me, but I know that we, like, share the same country. Like, I kind of think that's like the fun of a huge country. Like, Like America. Not to get it all patriotic, but I think that's like. And we lose that. I think the Nat. You know, we're losing that with streaming and local commercials going away and all that stuff. Okay, you ready?
- [41:44]
B
Yes.
- [41:44]
A
Two more. We're gonna do. They're all good. I want to do them all. Okay, great.
- [41:48]
B
Let's do them all.
- [41:50]
A
Gooey butter cake, Midwest or mid? At best.
- [41:54]
B
The best.
- [41:56]
A
Yeah.
- [41:57]
B
Their thing. Oh, yeah.
- [41:59]
A
Oh, I've never had it, and I've heard it from my brother's wife. She loves it.
- [42:05]
B
Well, have you ever had milk bar pie?
- [42:09]
A
No.
- [42:10]
B
Okay. Because they have it.
- [42:11]
A
I love it.
- [42:12]
B
They have it in, like, in Milk Bar in New York. That is.
- [42:16]
A
Oh, Milk Bar. Milk Bar. The. The cooking company. Yeah, the. Okay. I don't think I have.
- [42:22]
B
Okay. It's. It's. It's milk bar pie. They. It used to be called crack pie, and then they changed it because of woke up and the, the. So now it's called milk bar pie, and. Which makes sense. I agree with the change. But it's really gooey butter cake, which was invented in St. Louis, Missouri, or that St. Louis credit for.
- [42:44]
A
And that's where my brother's wife's from.
- [42:46]
B
Yeah. You know how like, like, have you ever learned or read a recipe for pecan pie?
- [42:53]
A
No.
- [42:54]
B
Okay. Like, don't. But you'll read it and you'll be like, oh, God. That's why it's so good. Because what's in it is insane.
- [43:02]
A
Right.
- [43:02]
B
That's what gooey butter cake is. Like, like, it's just like, here's, you know. You know, like, a whole bag and a half of brown sugar and a cow's worth of butter. If you can't get to, like, I.
- [43:15]
A
Would say the pecan pie, you get a little bit more, like, leeway with me than gooey butter cake. Like, I'm assuming that's not going to be on the health regimen, but I, I, I. It's probably worse than I would even imagine. Right?
- [43:31]
B
Yeah, it's like. It's like, you know, like, really good coffee cake. Like, really moist coffee cake.
- [43:38]
A
Yeah.
- [43:39]
B
It's like if you put butter and syrup on it, it's like, if you're like, I'm gonna put butter on my coffee cake and then sprinkle some. You got to.
- [43:51]
A
I had a. I had a coffee cake in the Delta Sky Club last week. I don't know why. I don't know what pushed me. I never eat anything at the Delta Sky Club like that. It was like, an out of body moment for me. I was so happy I ate it and it was a big brick.
- [44:06]
B
Yeah.
- [44:07]
A
So this is really speaking to me. Okay.
- [44:09]
B
Yeah.
- [44:10]
A
Ranch dressing Midwest or mid at best?
- [44:14]
B
Best Midwest and best. The best.
- [44:17]
A
See, I am a ranch person, I think. I'm not a ranch person. I can't. I can't. I can't put my name on it. Are you putting ranch on everything? Wings? You're going ranch instead of blue. Like, I go blue cheese over ranch.
- [44:32]
B
I like no ranch all the time. Ranch on pizza.
- [44:37]
A
Ranch on pizza was, like, introduced to me in college. That was like a college thing. But. And that was where it made the most sense to me.
- [44:45]
B
Yeah.
- [44:46]
A
Everywhere else, I just like a chicken finger with ranch. I'm like, there's so many other sauces, but I'm not gonna, like, you know, besmirch your culture.
- [44:57]
B
Well. And I understand, like, people, the creamy dressing situation here is quite intense. In fact, last night at our. At our show, I ordered a Caesar salad and it was like I was sitting in the back and it was kind of dark, and they brought me a Caesar salad and there was a ramekin of dressing on top of the salad. And I was like, oh, they must be, you know, they must be slammed in the kitchen or maybe. I don't know. I didn't know that I asked for dressing on the side. Luckily, I dipped and did not pour the salad. Was also dressed. They had just given me a side of Caesar dressing. And between that and I asked for a Diet Coke. And they brought me fully a half gallon cup of Diet Coke.
- [45:36]
A
The biggest. The biggest cup I've ever had of Diet Coke in my life here. Yeah.
- [45:41]
B
And I was like, I am. I am so home. I could not be more happy. I was just like, this is the best. But yes, I think we are a cream based dressing people. Yes.
- [45:51]
A
Tell me you are like, I last with cream based dressing people. Great merch. All right. Casserole.
- [46:01]
B
So I know as a Midwesterner who researched and wrote a book on it, that I am supposed to say that it's called hot dish.
- [46:13]
A
Ooh, okay.
- [46:15]
B
Right.
- [46:16]
A
I think that's a good. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead.
- [46:19]
B
Oh, no.
- [46:20]
A
Yeah, please go on the so.
- [46:23]
B
And I always heard it as casserole. I didn't realize that casserole was, I guess, a thing that isn't everywhere. Casseroles are specific. Some casseroles are good and some casseroles are bad. A casserole that I love that is insane and disgusting, especially because I live in Missouri. Which fans of Maps will know is landlocked as hell. I love tuna casserole. Like the tuna casserole they had in school, which was cooked tuna egg noodles covered in cheddar cheese.
- [47:03]
A
That is to me, this was gonna be. My issue with the word casserole is that I thought it got a bad edit. My whole life, casserole, we've been kind of told. The marketing for casserole has always been young kid in a sitcom being like tuna noodle casserole, and they're upset about it. So I didn't like casserole before even having a casserole. So I think it's like, it was like, I don't even know, big pharma or something was against casserole from the get go. I think switching it to hot dish might be good for the casserole industry.
- [47:48]
B
This is because.
- [47:50]
A
Yeah, because my whole. My whole view of casserole, which I didn't grow up with a casserole. We never made a casserole. But like, we would make. My mom would make baked macaroni and cheese. My grandmother would make baked macaroni and cheese, and it would come in the casserole container. And some people would call that a casserole. So I think it's more marketing that the issue with because to me, it's mid at best. But it's only because I only don't like the word. It's not like I don't like the contents of what it creates.
- [48:21]
B
Yeah, it's. Well, it's a big, like, is a hot dog a sandwich conversation? I feel like. Because, like, because I. I watched your. Your story at Slaps yesterday. You went to go get the barbecue and you were. You were having your way with it at the end where you like put the potato thing on and my.
- [48:44]
A
I'm with it. That's how I.
- [48:46]
B
That's what you're having. You're like, this is. We're slopping all this shit together. One bite. And I was like. And was like, that's my guy. And also I think that I'm a mixer. Like the, like Thanksgiving plates or it's like when we have. When I've got a plate and there's turkey and green bean casserole, which is just green beans and creamy tomato soup and Mac and cheese and corn and stuffing. I'm putting all that shit on one spoon and eating it. And like, that is the bite that I like to have. And I agree with you that casserole gets a bad rap. Because if you're like, here's Thanksgiving casserole. It is every spoonful that you take of Thanksgiving dinner. Now you're gonna do that. It's just in this dish, and it looks like something that, like, we feed to Oliver, you know, like, that we slap on his plate. I.
- [49:40]
A
Well, it's funny. I don't know if this helps or hurts it, but maybe if casserole was known as, like, hey, it's just the chef mama birding this bite together for you.
- [49:52]
B
That's it. It's. It's bites at scale. It is bites at scale. That's because. Also because then what do we do? Our. So just. Just because it's, like, maybe a little cleaner, the Italians get to call it lasagna. That shit's a casserole. That's a casserole.
- [50:09]
A
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of insulted Italians right now, but they're just going to have to deal with the truth. The truth sets you free. This is finally they're hearing, you know, getting an honest answer to their lasagnas. You're just having a tomato casserole, right?
- [50:25]
B
Also, like, don't come for me. But then what? Like, what do we do about Google?
- [50:31]
A
You know, you're right. No, listen, if I'm going to be. If I got to turn the. Listen, when the finger points three point back at you, the kugel is. That is. Wow. Mind blown. Here on the J Train podcast, everyone go follow Taylor at Taylor K. Phillips. The book is called A Guide to Midwestern Conversation. So good to have you. And, Melissa, we're going to do two shows tonight, but I'm so pumped that you came on the podcast. Thank you.
- [51:02]
B
Thank you so much for having me. I'll see you tonight.
- [51:04]
A
Of course. Back next week. Boom.