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The JTrain Podcast
What's It Like To Write For A Roast ft Nicole Becannon - CHIT CHAT WEDNESDAY
00:30:50
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- [00:00]
A
Chit Chat Wednesday for you to listen to. I have a guess who will be your new boo. You're gonna love them, too. Chit Chat Wednesday. I hope you're having a good day today. I hope it's gonna be a perfect week, too. I hope you have a nice poo. It's a chit Chat Wednesday, too.
- [00:36]
B
Hello, and welcome to the J Train Podcast. This is J Train Jared Freed coming live from Delray Beach, Florida. That's right, every Wednesday is a Chit Chat Wednesday where I sit with a comedian, a friend, an expert. Today we have all three. We're on the edge of not having all three. You know, we, we. We are recent friends. They're a comedian and they're an expert in roast joke writing. I, I hope. I hope they're okay with that. With the. The world of Rose. Nicole Buchanan, thank you for coming on.
- [01:13]
C
Yeah, thanks for having me.
- [01:15]
B
Great to see you. How are you? What's going on today? I saw you from the back of the Comedy Store. You didn't know I was watching. I was the paparazzi. I took a picture. You have opened for me in la, and it was a. And in Irvine, I think. Not Irvine, was it. Where were we?
- [01:34]
C
Somewhere in Southern California. Raya and. And San Diego.
- [01:38]
B
One of those weird LA areas that I'm like, oh, this is like where people live when they say they're from la, like.
- [01:48]
C
Yeah.
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B
Is that what it is?
- [01:50]
C
Yeah, basically.
- [01:53]
B
And you're wonderful. You're hilarious. And you also wrote for the. The roast that just happened. The Kevin Hart roast.
- [02:03]
C
Yeah.
- [02:04]
B
How are you feeling? I was thinking of you because I was like, there's all this fallout of, like, people are. You know, I hate the word people, but, like, there was anger on the Internet from some real. Some fake, some performative, some to get your likes, some. But you're a nice person who is very funny, who wrote for the show. So how do you feel hearing that feedback?
- [02:35]
C
I think it comes with the territory. This one a little more so. I mean, yeah, there was a lot of discourse. This one a little more so, I think, because there was more tension than they're usually, like, actual tension than there usually is on the roast, I think.
- [02:52]
B
Explain that you think between the. The. The deist. The people on it like you. I mean, there was a clear divide between politically seeming, you know, like.
- [03:03]
C
Yeah, politically, probably personal stuff that I don't even know about. Like, you know, you get a bunch of comedians together. There's a lot of things that. Resentments and stuff like that. But yeah, it's it's weird because I. I think most of the roasts, either, like the Tom Brady roast, which I also wrote on, they were like. That was probably the. The one where they were the most, like, friends. Like, there were the most people that actually personally knew him and were friends with him. And then, like, some of the, like, Comedy Central ones, I feel like it got into territory where they didn't really know each other that well, but it wasn't, like, tension like that. Whereas this one, that. It seemed a little more tense. And, you know, of course, there were, like, debates on just the racism of it all.
- [04:06]
B
Well, I want to. I want to get into a few things that you talked about, some would say, and I. I kind of. You know, I have a microphone, and I'm. I have to fill airspace. So, you know, when I went and gave my. Whatever my opinion was, whatever that was worth. You know, a roast is meant to be amongst, you know, loving people. You know, like, and. And, you know, the idea that, like, there are these writers behind the scenes, people might not even know that. Like, it is interesting to me that, like, the one reason a roast happens, they. The. That might have been missing, you know, from. From the roast itself, which is like, hey, we want these buddies, these friends, these peers to get up on stage, give each other, and then give each other a hug afterwards. And we get to feel all the emotions. We get to feel shocked, and we get to laugh, and we get to ooh and ah, and then we get to go a. They do like each other. Like, yeah, that's got, you know. Do you know what I mean?
- [05:16]
C
Yeah. Usually, I mean, all comedy, really, the. It's tension and then release of tension. Right, right. But, you know, when there's less of a release, it just stays tense, I guess. But, yeah, it's a. It's. It's strange. I think there's probably less hard feelings than people think there are.
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A
Right. Well, it's.
- [05:40]
B
It kind of felt like it was wwe, like, and again, you know, a
- [05:44]
C
lot of people on there have that Persona, right?
- [05:48]
B
And they have an audience that they kind of have to like. You know, the audience is all of our bosses more than it was maybe years ago. You know, your boss for the roast is like, you know, someone who would hire you to do another roast in the future. So when you come on, how does it work? Did they go, give us 10 jokes and we'll give them out? Do you match up with someone? How does it work for you, personally? Because I would wonder. I just kept thinking of you When I was like, people are mad. And then, like, I don't think they would think of you as, like, who they're mad at, maybe. And I wonder if you. Do you feel that, like, I. Because you do a great job. You're. You. You're doing what you were hired to do.
- [06:30]
C
Yeah. And, you know, there's a lot that goes into it. It's the writers, it's the performers on the show. It's, you know, it's all a collaborative effort. And, yeah, we come in, really. And just the people that started earlier than me, they did a lot of work just. That never even gets seen or used because they're just trying to convince people to do it. So they're, like, sending things to people who are never gonna do it, but they're trying to convince them to do it. So they're like, here's some jokes you could possibly use. Here's a script you could possibly use. Here's an angle you could possibly use. And they're doing all this thankless work that goes nowhere because they're just sending it to whatever random celebrities. But then when it. When it really gets down to it, towards the end, when everyone's booked, that's usually when I get brought in. And then you're just, like, hammering out jokes, and. And then it all goes into, like, one big file that's, like, kept. And the head writer usually separates it, and they're like, okay, these are the selects that we think are really good. And then, you know, a lot of times we'll be like, okay, this. This is good for this person. Or we'll get an assignment that day, like, maybe write some jokes that could specifically be for this person. And we have a research packet of stuff about their relationship with them and all of that. And so we'll write jokes for specific people. And, yeah, we'll, like, send them out. And then we also just have a doc full of jokes. So if someone's asking for a specific joke, and then when it gets really towards the end, if you're a writer who's, like, kind of friends with one of the comedians or what? Or you're paired with someone the day of. Because we're all paired with someone the day of, just to, like, put their stuff in prompter, prepare them. Like, everything's written by then, but you're just kind of their person. So if you have that, or you're just close with somebody on the day, so you can be like, hey, I wrote this joke that nobody's taken yet. Do you want it and sometimes they'll take it. So, yeah, you just kind of are pounding out jokes and. And they could end up in anyone's script.
- [08:48]
B
I'm. I'm wondering, what was that? I'm sorry.
- [08:52]
C
And then a lot of times, comedians will hire their own outside writers as well and come in with their own stuff.
- [08:58]
B
I think it's. Someone listening right now is like, holy. I never thought it worked that way. You know? Like, I think of you as, like, you're like. What are they called when they're not a part of any army? Like, you're
- [09:16]
C
like, I'm a hired gun.
- [09:19]
B
Hired gun.
- [09:21]
A
Right.
- [09:21]
B
It's very Rambo. It's very like, hey, you're your own company battalion that represents no government. Like, you just came to fire off to hit some people square in the forehead and then leave in the COVID of darkness.
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C
Yeah, it's true. I have no. Like, I'm not. You're right. I'm not a part of any army. I have no allegiance. I just go, here's a bunch of mean. I wrote about all these people, and anyone can take them, right?
- [09:53]
B
And that's when it gets, like, politicized, when someone does their dissertation on threads. It's so funny. The intent with which you wrote it is so far away from the intent that gets placed on it.
- [10:10]
C
That's exactly right.
- [10:12]
B
Yeah, right. Like, I.
- [10:14]
C
Like, I'm just writing a joke based on a research doc that I got right.
- [10:20]
B
And it's a little bit paint by numbers, you know? You know, the paint by numbers is like setups that we've all seen where you're like, you know. You know, this person is here. Let's give it up for the blank, Blank, blank, blank, blank. And, you know, and. And they're dating, so. And so it's almost like blank, blank, and blank and blank, you know, like, it turns into that. And. And those can be really good, you know, like, you try not to be
- [10:51]
C
as formulaic is that. Sure is the. It is the nature of a roast joke. It almost is just like putting a puzzle together, which is when I used to do, like, live roast battles, which is kind of how I got into this. Like, I had to remind myself of that, because, boy, would I just be called ugly all the time. And I just had to, like, remind myself that. It's like they looked at me and went, okay, she's a. She's a girl. She's funny. Like, what can I do with this? That will get a laugh. And unfortunately, you call any girl that isn't a model Ugly as fuck. And it's going to get a laugh. Like, game over. Game over. That's why, like, when they were making jokes about Chelsea and there were, there were people in the green room I was watching in the green room that were like, what? She looks gorgeous. And I was like, yeah, that's not the point.
- [11:41]
B
Right? You've, you've missed what this is. Right? It's like, I mean, that's like saying, like, you know, like, but they're hiding so well. How are they getting hit by gunfire? It's like,
- [11:56]
C
actually gay. It's like, yeah, we know.
- [12:00]
B
Or maybe we don't. What do they. Who's in this green room? Like, the most annoying commenters on YouTube.
- [12:05]
C
Like, well, sometimes it's like, their friends. So, you know, they, they're confused as to why we would say that about them, which is totally fair. Like, my, my mom never wanted to watch when I was, like, doing a roast battle or anything. She was like, I just, I don't like seeing people say mean things about you, and I don't like seeing, seeing you say mean things about other people.
- [12:28]
B
I was like, totally understandable. Yeah. Do you have a.
- [12:33]
C
It's a puzzle. It's like a puzzle you put together and.
- [12:36]
B
Right. I, I, I don't find, I hope that doesn't come off as demeaning, because I do find when you find the puzzle that fits, it's, like, amazing. Like, I, I, a good rose joke. You're like, who? And you kind of have to write the formulaic ones to get your mind working.
- [12:55]
C
Yes.
- [12:55]
B
To get to the good one. Like anything else. Right.
- [12:58]
C
Like everything. There's a, there's a lazy way to do it, there's a bad way to do it, and there's a good way to do it, and there's people who are exceptional at it. So, yeah, it's, it really is like anything else. And you're right, you do have to, like, do it in a formulaic way until you go, okay, how do I break this formula and do something unexpected?
- [13:18]
B
I mean, my motto, my motto in life is we write to edit. You gotta write so that you can edit. You know, like, and I did a, I did a roast. I got asked to do a private roast, and I, My first call was to Mike Lawrence, who I've known Mike, you know, since open mics and going back to, like. And he's like, you know, who I would consider the king of this stuff. He's an absolute machine, total machine. And I had to do, like, a birthday party, and I'M like, Mike, I don't know if you got the time. I would love to pay you. And I would love, you know, again, the hired hitman. I need you to give me, I need 50 bullets and I need you to create them by Friday at 2. Can you do that? And how much would it cost? Like you feel very John Wick at the hotel going to the guns guy, you know.
- [14:16]
C
Yeah. And you know, people are often disappointed when they find out that there's writers, especially when they find out that the comedians use writers. And you know, I'll just use like Nikki as an example because she's very open about using.
- [14:32]
B
Right.
- [14:33]
C
I feel like people are like, yeah, but she uses, everyone uses writers. She's just one of the people that actually gives her writers credit because she's a good person. But she also, like, what I tell people is I've written for so many people using writer. I mean, like it, it, it's a tool, it helps.
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B
Right?
- [14:53]
C
It's not every, I've written for people with terrible comedic instincts and I've written for people like you. Just, it doesn't matter. They, they're still good.
- [15:02]
B
Like, they're still, No, I, I, I don't think, you know, I had a ghostwriter for my book. Like, you know, yeah, I can tell. And again, the words that come back at you, you get a feeling and a vibe and you have to like, you have to let them think whatever they think. But like, you know, when someone says to me, when you co, like someone at a book event I did said that I co wrote my book and I'm like, that's not what happened. You know, like, I, it's my book, it's my stories, it's my, you know, I, I, and I'm very proud to give Taylor K. Phillips, who I think is hilarious and amazing, all the credit in the world in helping me get my book to where it needed to be. But you can kind of tell when people don't get it. Rent, mortgage, either way, housing is expensive. Built is here to make those big monthly payments work for you. With Built, every housing payment earns you points that you can use towards Travel, lift rides, Amazon.com purchases, and so much more. I love Built. I, I use Built. I am a built guy. I love the idea that you're spending your money and it's somehow in a way working for you. The points add up and you're going to use them. And for your biggest, for most people, I would say, I'm not going to say all, but most people Their mortgage or their rent is their biggest spend every month. So wouldn't you want that money to help you out in other ways? I think this is a no brainer. This is I feel really good about any time I see my built points come in like and, and also they do stuff with local restaurants and then you'll get like a surprise email. Hey, you were at a built place. And then you're like oh great. Oh my God, I'm. I, I. That dinner became worth more than just the meal. With built new neighborhood concierge feature you can use, you can make restaurant reservations, book fitness classes at places like Soul cycle and core power yoga. Reservations. We just did a ticked off Tuesday about how hard it is to get reservations. What a great perk and access exclusive members only experiences. Some of those experiences are tickets to my show. I've worked with built in the past in that capacity they do in New York. They do special like you know, comedy shows. It I think what builds doing is they've created a you know a credit card spending money experience that is built for a new younger generation. And, and it's also the people that work there are like around my age. So if you're around my age in any way, you have a, you know a, a benefits package with your credit card experience that reflects your life. You're literally earning rewards while you explore your neighborhood. So I'm a huge built fan. I think you're going to see a lot of value in it. Join the membership for where you live at. Join built.com jtrain that's J-O I N B I L T.com j train make sure to use my URL so they know I sent you like Nikki Glazer who, who I'm happy she gives credit to the writers but she's also, I've, you know, she's an incredibly hard worker and she also understands the value of like doing well on those shows. And she is one of the best misdirect joke writers there is like alive.
- [18:31]
C
She's an incredible joke writer herself which is, yeah, I, I say that too because people, when people talk about right. It's like the thing is maybe if they had a year to prepare for this they could put together themselves the way they do with stand up a perfect set, you know. But these people, they have maybe three weeks. Some of them don't get added till the day is till like the week of like some of the celebrities like they don't have a lot of time
- [18:59]
B
to prepare if they jokes take time
- [19:02]
C
matter who they are totally. You know, what's that? And I'm a writer, and I'd be like, I would have to use writers if I were to do it. Like, it just. You know, it's a.
- [19:14]
B
People don't understand. You know, a joke takes time to, like, fashion. You have to, like. You have to sometimes hear it come out of your mouth, and then when you see the words come out of your mouth in the sky, sometimes you want to, like, grab them and put them back in. You're like, I should have never said it that way.
- [19:30]
C
Well, a set takes time, right? Like, you. You could grab all the best jokes. You could take all the best writers and grab all the best jokes and still not have the best set. You have to know how to craft it. You have to know how to deliver it. Like. And again, using Nikki Glaser as an example, she's the best. Like, she knows how to just fire on all cylinders. And so we're just a tool,
- [19:58]
B
right? It's. It's. It's. It's. You're. You're making bullets, and they're shooting the gun, you know? Like, it's. And yeah, Nikki is so amazing at that. And, like, yeah, when I. Whenever I see her do a roast, I'm like, here we go. Like, perfect person, perfect performer, perfect writer. Like, like, you know, the Tom Brady rose. I was like, yeah, this is gonna be amazing. Like, you. Every con. And we know we're in it. You know, it's like. And I love talking about it here with you because, like, I think people would go, oh, this is how it works. So do you have a joke that didn't make it on that you're mad? Didn't make it on?
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C
Actually, no. Yeah. No. All the jokes that I wanted to get on, I ended up being able to get on.
- [20:49]
B
And.
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C
And, you know, there were so many comedians on this one that was. I. I liked that about it. There were so many comedians and, like, ones that, you know, I, like, know that I was able to be like, hey, take this. And so. And they did. And so, like, you know, yeah, all the ones that I wanted to get on, I think. I think I did.
- [21:12]
B
I mean, if I was ever on that and I saw that you were one of the. I'd, like, grab you right away. I would be like, oh, my God. Like, let's get going. You know, everyone else can go screw themselves. Like, I. You. You almost. It's like picking a dodgeball team. You're like, I gotta get Nicole. You know? Like, I. And so do what is their favorite joke that made it on? Can you say it, or do you. Do you not want to get in trouble? Like, I don't know.
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A
I.
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B
And everyone should go follow Nicole. Nicole is so fucking hilarious. I saw Crush at the store the other night.
- [21:45]
A
You're.
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B
You were talking about, you know, boobs or. And it was just doing so good and talking about the.
- [21:55]
C
It's one of my new. Where I talk about the. Because I have no tits. And I talk about how I'm trying to, like, get an ass because you can, like, work out and get Nas. And that's like, a body type that's in right now, like, the small tits and big ass. And one day I was just like. It's like the mullet of bodies.
- [22:17]
B
That's the part I saw. And I. Because I came in and I'm like, oh, you're like, small tits, big ass. I go, all right, let's see where we're going here. Like, I like, it's the fun of walking into any club and, like, and it was packed, and you're killing. And I was like, ah, this is great, you know. No, the mullet is hilarious. It's like, perfect.
- [22:39]
C
Thanks. I get really nervous to do the main room. I'm still not, like, completely comfortable in there. I'm so comfortable in the original room at the Comedy Store.
- [22:47]
B
But so for those. For those that don't know, the Comedy Store is like, you know, the. The comedy seller of the West Coast. And it's. The original room is like, more. What would you say? It fits, like, 150 people. And it's like. It's. It really feels like you're doing comedy in a living room of sorts. And then, yeah, way more intimate, very talky and conversational. And then the. What's it called? The. The main room.
- [23:20]
C
Yeah, it's probably like, 350.
- [23:23]
B
The main room is, like, a legit, like, theater style. You know, there's been specials taped there. And then I was in the belly room upstairs performing for eight people. And it was. And I'm just like. I hadn't been on stage in a bit, but I. And I was just, like, having fun up there with very little pressure after seeing you with a huge crowd. And I was like, again, all rooms have its reasons, you know, like, and. And. And its value. So you can't say the joke that you liked. Is there a joke that you can say that you. You can take ownership of?
- [24:02]
C
You know, I. I will. I will. It's. It's funny because I, you know, I didn't write any of the ones that people are mad about. I'll say that.
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B
I didn't take you for being. But you have to also be part of the writers, you know, like.
- [24:17]
C
Yeah.
- [24:17]
B
You know, like, when you. And it's weird because you're like. It's almost like, oh, I wrote for the Kevin Hart roast, especially with the way Threads is, like, weirdly, I don't know why Threads has become the, the town square where people bring their pitchforks and, And. And. And, like, burning wood, you know, flames. But they, you know, there's. If you say you wrote for the Rose, they. You might have this person who's been just on a tear, you know, because they're getting some. You know, they're getting feedback on it because they've ended up on the right, you know, algorithm. I. I found all of it fraudulent. I thought. I found that, like, any dissertation on it was, like, crazy to me. But. Yeah.
- [25:02]
C
Yeah. Well, I think you can tell I'm trying to be careful about what I said, because there has been. There have been writers who have said stuff or gone and gone to press about stuff and, and have gotten reprimanded for it. So I. Yeah, I don't want you
- [25:17]
B
to get in any trouble. I don't want to cause any problems here. I'm not looking for a gotcha take.
- [25:22]
C
It's funny because I, I, No, I, I like the, the jokes that I wrote. The, the thing that I have trouble with. And it's funny because after the Tom Brady roast, I remember Nikki reaching out to me and being like, are there any. Because she wanted to go and read jokes that were written about her that didn't make it. She asked me, like, are there any jokes that you wrote about me? And I was like, I don't want to send those to you.
- [25:50]
B
You know, like, it's over. Call the fight. I don't know. We're friends now. We're. There was a truce made. Yeah.
- [25:58]
C
Weird to send. It's weird to set. Like, it's one thing if you're doing that, like, on a roast or whatever, but, like, if someone's just like, hey, what's a joke you wrote about me? Like, there's not a. Not awkward way to be like, well, I wrote. So that's the hesitance that I. Is. I'm not mad that people are going to be mad about the jokes. Specific people will be to put a
- [26:22]
B
pin in that for two seconds. I mean, to go back, this doesn't have to be a, you know, a A Nikki Glaser ass kissing festival. But what a genius maneuver, you know, to, to go on tour because you, you get this big pop out of the Tom Brady rose. Now I'm gonna be self deprecating. Let me read all the things that I. That didn't make it about me. Like genius. I actually, you know.
- [26:50]
C
Yeah. No, every, Everything. She's incredible.
- [26:53]
B
Yeah.
- [26:53]
C
Again, not to make an asking, but I, I love her. She's so smart, so, so funny, so good at what she does.
- [27:01]
B
So. Okay, we'll. We'll spare the innocent. We're not going to repeat. Who did you write with?
- [27:10]
C
Kind of nice one that I wrote actually do.
- [27:12]
B
Yeah, let's hear a nice one that, that, that you're proud of.
- [27:15]
C
It was about, it was about. Because Pete Davidson's dad obviously died in 911 or whatever. And I, I wrote a joke that was. And Pete gets all the pussy that his dad deserves.
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B
That's fantastic. That's, that's, that's like as far as word efficiency is concerned. Like the nerds, the comedy nerds. That's like a perfect line, you know? Like, I love that. Okay, so like is a, isn't is
- [27:56]
C
a nice funny thing.
- [27:58]
B
Totally. That's one you could, like, you know, there's, you know, jokes that you could tell to a mom.
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C
Pete Davidson, that. I wrote that joke.
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B
Right. And he would laugh.
- [28:09]
C
I wrote. I would not tell the person they were about to.
- [28:12]
B
Right, right, right. So what's next? I mean, you, I mean, I know you as a stand up and you, you're incredibly funny. And I think everyone should go follow Nicole. And you're going to love what she does. I love. She has a joke about the diagnosis a friend got of super gonorrhea that like, I love the way you do it, the way you perform it. Just the idea of super gonorrhea being a real diagnosis someone could get is absolutely batshit insane.
- [28:45]
C
Crazy to name a disease like that. And I'm not gonna do like the bit, but like, I was thinking like, what if you, like if you named it super cancer because it was more of a strain of kit. Like, that's the only. I feel like that's the only. STDs are the only thing we do that with. Right, Right.
- [29:04]
B
There's like, it's because of the shame aspect of it. You can't be like, hey, what the fuck, man? Like, you can't.
- [29:11]
C
Yeah.
- [29:11]
B
You know, like, you can't give feedback. I think you could even add that in to the bit like, of like, you know, the, that you can only do that for that type of, you know, type of diagnosis. But also I. There's another part that I was thinking about that you could add in geriatric pregnancy. Like, it feels like there's all these like, terms that were created by a bro who wanted to. With a woman.
- [29:42]
C
Yeah.
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B
I mean, any.
- [29:45]
C
Yeah. Anyone who just has sex. There's a. Yeah, there's a. There's a shame to it, I guess.
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B
Right.
- [29:52]
C
Yeah.
- [29:52]
B
So will you write for another show? Will you do more roasts? I mean, is that like.
- [29:58]
C
I hope so. I mean, I do a lot of roasts and award shows, but I would love to. To get on something where it. It goes like longer than a season. You know, I've written on mostly like things that are very short term jobs or whatever, so hopefully I can get staffed and have financial stability. That'd be great.
- [30:19]
B
That's how we end every episode of Chitchat Wednesday. A hope for financial stability. We pray to father algorithm and we let people know to go follow Nicole and go enjoy her work because it was great to see the other night, even though you didn't see me and I. You were hysterical and everyone go follow. Thank you for coming on, everyone. Of course. I'm Jared Freed back next week.
- [30:48]
A
Boom.