Burning Questions

Summary

The Lodge: "Burning Questions" Episode Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Lodge
• Host/Author: RNZ
• Episode: Burning Questions
• Release Date: July 17, 2025
• Description: In a world obsessed with wellbeing - would you put your health in the hands of a cult? A cautionary tale about the consequences of going alternative, when wellness becomes a matter of life & death.

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Introduction and Setting the Scene

The episode opens with Phil Vine, the host, expressing his intent to delve deeper into the enigmatic Takaro Lodge, a site previously associated with the wellness cult led by AI Peng Wong. The narrative is set against the picturesque backdrop of Queenstown, New Zealand, as Phil prepares for his investigative journey.

Notable Quote:

"[01:05] Phil Vine: Queenstown, jewel of the south... the lodge. I'm hoping to get an interview with AI Peng Wong, the guru."

Reintroducing Suzanne and Her Past with the Lodge

Phil reconnects with Suzanne, a former follower of Ipeng Wong from the Lodge. Suzanne shares her personal struggles, including a severe health crisis that led her to the hospital after years of embracing a holistic lifestyle promoted by the cult.

Notable Quotes:

"[04:12] Suzanne: I've been pretty normal and healthy my whole life... I had severe severe stomach pain..."

"[05:03] Suzanne: They admitted me for the night and then released me the next morning. I couldn't even sit up to talk to the doctor."

Health Crisis and Divergence from Cult Practices

Suzanne details her hospitalization due to acute gallbladder issues and her reliance on conventional medicine, contrasting sharply with her mother's tragic experience within the cult.

Notable Quotes:

"[05:33] Phil Vine: What does that mean, that your blood is deranged?"

"[05:50] Suzanne: I really didn't want my gallbladder taken out of me because I know that God doesn't put things in our bodies for no Reason."

Phil's Persistent Quest for Answers

Phil outlines his exhaustive efforts to reach AI Peng Wong and other key figures associated with the Lodge, highlighting the persistent lack of response and the barriers he encounters, including blocked communication channels and legal threats.

Notable Quotes:

"[08:07] Phil Vine: I bought to thinking that Suzanne and I could maybe go to the lodge together... ask for answers to some of my questions."

"[10:23] Phil Vine: I sent him an email mentioning how abruptly the call had ended... No reply."

Investigating the Lodge's Current Operations

Phil explores the current state of Takaro Lodge, uncovering ongoing construction and operational activities linked to former cult members. He interacts with a neighbor who remains anonymous, corroborating the secretive nature of the Lodge.

Notable Quotes:

"[18:39] Anonymous Neighbor: They're quite very quiet and secretive, so not really sure what goes on there."

"[19:17] Phil Vine: I took a little peek on Google Earth... lot of activity, including Earthworks and a large new construction."

Legal Challenges and Trespassing Incident

Determined to gain firsthand insight, Phil attempts to access the Lodge but faces legal repercussions for trespassing. This incident underscores the Lodge's defensive stance against external scrutiny.

Notable Quotes:

"[25:10] Suzanne: All right. Okay."

"[25:11] Phil Vine: I didn't know it, but it would be the last time we spoke."

Unveiling Financial and Organizational Ties

Phil delves into the financial backend of the Lodge, revealing connections between various entities and individuals involved in energy healing operations globally. He discovers discrepancies in AI Peng Wong's digital presence, suggesting deliberate obfuscation.

Notable Quotes:

"[26:36] Phil Vine: Looking at the stunning photos, it's unmistakably the old Takaro Lodge... a reboot, a relaunch, but maybe not operational yet."

"[24:59] Phil Vine: ...I discovered the guru had vanished from Facebook. A hard delete."

Tragic Consequences and Moral Questions

Reflecting on the deaths associated with the Lodge, including Suzanne’s mother, Warwick, and Yanis, Phil grapples with the ethical implications of wellness cults and their promises of miraculous healing.

Notable Quotes:

"[42:13] Phil Vine: ...there has been some human damage. Harm has been done, maybe more in the moral sense than in the legal sense."

"[43:28] Phil Vine: ...a lot of these folk record themselves for, you know, YouTube and TikTok..."

Expert Insights and Compassionate Perspectives

The episode features insights from cult experts like Anka Richter, who emphasize understanding and compassion for individuals involved in such groups. The discussion highlights the complex psychological and social factors that drive people into and out of cults.

Notable Quotes:

"[40:10] Anka Richter: ...there is always something that works for people that brings them there in the first place."

"[41:18] Anka Richter: ...have compassion for people who are in these groups and not blame them..."

Phil’s Reflections and Ongoing Investigation

As the episode concludes, Phil reflects on his journey, the obstacles faced, and the unresolved questions surrounding Takaro Lodge. He underscores the importance of transparency and the relentless pursuit of truth for the sake of the affected individuals.

Notable Quotes:

"[44:13] Phil Vine: ...the vagueness and dismissiveness are an excellent cloak against honest inquiry."

"[45:36] Suzanne: Every day we eat fresh food and next day we go to toilet..."

Dedications and Call for Information

Phil dedicates the episode to the victims affected by the Lodge's practices and urges listeners with information about the cult to come forward, reinforcing the podcast's commitment to uncovering the truth.

Notable Quotes:

"[46:57] Phil Vine: Is a state of mind. Thanks for listening... dedicated to Suzanne and her mum Sharon to Warwick and to Yanis..."

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Conclusion

"Burning Questions" serves as a poignant exploration of the lingering shadows cast by the Takaro Lodge wellness cult. Through personal testimonies, investigative reporting, and expert analysis, Phil Vine meticulously unravels the complex web of faith, exploitation, and tragedy. The episode underscores the necessity of vigilance and compassion in addressing the allure of alternative wellness practices that may harbor darker undercurrents.

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Note: This summary omits promotional segments, advertisements, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions and revelations presented in the episode.

Transcript

[Phil Vine]

Hi, this is Penn and Kim Holderness from the Laugh Lines podcast.

[Penn Holderness]

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[Phil Vine]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Suzanne]

Our flight time through to Queenstown today is approximately 1 hour and 40 minutes. We're here to make sure you have a safe and comfortable flight, so if there is anything you need, please let us know.

[Phil Vine]

Queenstown, jewel of the south. It's the closest airport to Te Ano, the first stop on a long journey from Auckland and the north island of New Zealand down to the lodge. I'm hoping to get an interview with AI Peng Wong, the guru. I want to catch up on what she's been doing since we last spoke. That was more than 20 years ago. I want. I need to give her a right of reply. But it's much more than that. Having got this far, I feel as listeners, you're owed some explanations.

[Suzanne]

Welcome to Queenstown. Please get your seatbelt fastened and remain seated until the seatbelt sign has been switched off. Smoking, vaping and e cigarettes are strictly prohibited on the tarmac and inside the terminal building. Before you head off, double check you have everything with you.

[Phil Vine]

Notebook, check. Microphones, check. Sunglasses, check. It's a gorgeous morning in Khew Town. Hot sun, cool breeze off the mountains. About a two hour drive in the rental to Ipeng's spiritual home. All right, let's go. Feeling equal parts nervous and excited. Glad to have you along. Okay, we're on our way. Kia ora. I'm Phil vine from RNZ and this is the Lodge, the Fall and Rise of a Wellness Cult. A podcast about healing, about the power of belief, its lasting effects on the believers and the believed.

[Suzanne]

Hello.

[Phil Vine]

Before I left for Te Ano, I've been trying to get Suzanne back on the phone. One of Ipeng's original followers from the lodge.

[Suzanne]

I'm so sorry that I'm so unreliable. I don't mean to be.

[Phil Vine]

That's all right. That's okay. Suzanne has been living across the ditch in Oz. She'd separated amicably from Eddie, her partner, that was the engineer that helped build the bunker at the loc. Both their kids are grown now. She hasn't seen iping for 20 odd years, like me.

[Suzanne]

Do you know where Iping is now?

[Phil Vine]

I think she's still there.

[Suzanne]

You do you think she's in Takara?

[Phil Vine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So after the documentary, right, the NZQA withdrew its accreditation. The NZQA said, no, you're not a teaching institution, you're doing something else. And 12 people got deported from. From there.

[Suzanne]

Sorry, I shouldn't laugh.

[Phil Vine]

I don't know. I was a bit worried about Suzanne because she hadn't picked up the phone for a couple of weeks. Turns out she'd been in hospital.

[Suzanne]

I've been pretty normal and healthy my whole life, ever since I left you last time I saw you. And then all of a sudden, one day, two weeks ago, I had severe severe stomach pain and so I had to call an ambulance for myself. I live alone. I live alone. And. Which is fine. I work at ikea, by the way. Yeah, I'm a manager at Ikea and I've been working there for about eight years, seven years. And I love it. But anyway, that's besides the point.

[Phil Vine]

Well, it's kind of a point. Suzanne comes from some pretty wealthy American stock. Annie, the BBC documentary maker, had described her as an heiress. Suzanne and her mum had paid iPing $1.5 million to come to the lodge in Te Anau and live with their guru. Now she's running a customer service desk at ikea. So Suzanne got rushed to the emergency room.

[Suzanne]

They ended up releasing me. They admitted me for the night and then released me the next morning. And I was like doubled up in pain when they released me. I couldn't even sit up to talk to the doctor. I couldn't believe they were releasing me. But within 24 hours, I had to call the ambulance again and I got taken back in. And then they kept me for 14 days.

[Phil Vine]

They told Suzanne she had an acute infection and they wanted to remove her.

[Suzanne]

Gallbladder, but they couldn't take my gallbladder out because my blood were so deranged. And they're still deranged, but they didn't take my gallbladder out.

[Phil Vine]

What does that mean, that your blood is deranged?

[Suzanne]

It means that the blood count is not normal. So they could operate on my gallbladder, which is very, very good, because I really didn't want my gallbladder taken out of me because I know that God doesn't put things in our bodies for no Reason.

[Phil Vine]

Which gave me pause after what had happened to her mum. Remember Sharon got breast cancer at the lodge and thought Ipeng would heal her. She didn't. And Sharon died what Suzanne called a really horrific death. I wanted to make sure that Suzanne wasn't doing the same thing and avoiding conventional medicine.

[Suzanne]

So I've been treating it holistically with supplements and I've changed my diet and I've. But I think. I mean, I learned so much there, it's hard to even begin to tell you what I learned there. Yeah, I learned to trust in the universe, to be positive, to. To not think constantly, you know, and because thinking just isn't useful. It just takes all of our energy.

[Phil Vine]

But Suzanne, you did go to hospital. You didn't go to an energy clinic for that.

[Suzanne]

No, I didn't. I didn't. That's true. But every single doctor that I've seen spoken to since then has said I 100% need to have my gallbladder out. To the point that they said they wouldn't even treat me as a patient if I didn't listen and go get my gallbladder out. Okay.

[Phil Vine]

Do promise me, though, that you're not going to go down the road that your mom did. And if this gallbladder thing turns out to be serious, you're not going to just turn to energy healing, are you?

[Suzanne]

Of course not.

[Phil Vine]

No.

[Suzanne]

No, I'm not. I wouldn't.

[Phil Vine]

It feels a bit weird to be asking for assurances and offering up medical advice. I mean, I'm not a doctor, just a scribbler. I was a bit worried, though, after our previous conversation. Suzanne told me she had a load of recordings of Ipeng's teaching sessions and she was talking about digging them out.

[Suzanne]

And the reason I want to listen to those tapes is because I want to hear the stuff that she taught us. Because I know in my soul that it's going to be stuff that's so much more relevant today than it was back then.

[Phil Vine]

It seems like Suzanne still sees something in all this, in the power of energy to heal. Even after all this time and all she's been through, Ipeng's influence remains strong. In EP6, I posed Suzanne a hypothetical about returning to the fold, becoming a follower of Iping's again. I. I'd expected a hard no. Would you do it?

[Suzanne]

I would, yeah. 100%.

[Phil Vine]

Wow. That really surprises me.

[Suzanne]

Yeah, I would. I would do it.

[Phil Vine]

Perhaps she could ask Iping for a refund on that one and a half million dollars.

[Suzanne]

I know that I wouldn't get any money back. So I don't. I think it would be a waste of my time, but I'd love to get money back.

[Phil Vine]

I got to thinking that Suzanne and I could maybe go to the lodge together, ask for an audience with Iping. Maybe I could get some answers to some of my questions. Because no one at the lodge, AI Ping or her family, absolutely no one has been returning my calls or answering emails honestly. It's a wall of silence. I've tried email. Ipeng has a private Gmail address. Back in December 24, I asked for a second interview. I even explained how I'd had my own brush with Woo Woo getting alternative treatment for cancer. She didn't get back. I tried DMs. I left a message on Sarah McCrum's Love Money website. No reply. I tried good old fashioned phoning. The number for Ipeng's former son in law who runs 14 of the energy clinics in Europe seems to be constantly ringing out.

[Suzanne]

The person you have called is unable to answer call at the moment. Please try again or call back later.

[Phil Vine]

I figured he was filtering my calls, so I turned off caller ID and the slightly obsessive bird eventually gets the worm.

[Suzanne]

Morning.

[Phil Vine]

Oh, hello, Is that.

[Suzanne]

Yeah, speaking.

[Phil Vine]

Oh, hi, It's. It's Phil Vine. I'm a journalist from New Zealand. I started by making polite conversation about the public figure linked with the story that we can't name. But he immediately referred me to their PR team.

[Suzanne]

Please do, because that's the arrangement. So I can't tell you anything more. Thank you much. So, so much.

[Phil Vine]

I was after an interview with. Okay, thank you.

[Suzanne]

Bye bye.

[Phil Vine]

I sent him an email mentioning how abruptly the call had ended, saying I was keen to talk to him about his business, the energy clinics, Takaro Lodge, the Phenomena Academy and his former mother in law, AI Ping Wong. I've also tried to get hold of Ipeng's daughter who used to run the energy clinic in Lasan. She hasn't got much of an online presence. LinkedIn has her as the owner of a company in the same city. I contacted her indirectly through an organization linked with the public figure we can't name. She's got no comment to make. Back to Suzanne, I had to break the news to her about Warwick, the Kiwi actor who died. Warwick who was told that his HIV would be cured by Ipeng's treatment at the Energy Bank. Warwick and Suzanne had been quite close. At Ipeng's intensive in Croatia. Again, she surprised me with her reaction.

[Suzanne]

You meet so many people and you have probably done so many stories about people that have suffered. You would also come across a lot of people on your journey that have had incredible life experiences. So to have the end result be death, it would. Is traumatic. But we're all gonna die. First of all, no matter what. We're gonna. We're all gonna die. And that's the truth. But how long we're on this earth is not up to us. And. Or ip. And so, you know, I feel that she would have tried probably desperately to prove the truth through that young man.

[Phil Vine]

And I think what upsets me about that is that Iping or Sarah then told him it was just because you didn't believe enough. And I find that really quite awful. Putting that back on the person who's.

[Suzanne]

Ill. Yeah, I know it sounds very cruel, but I actually agree.

[Phil Vine]

You really have swallowed the koolaid, haven't you? 20 years later. 20 years later.

[Suzanne]

No. And I have no involvement with these people. So it's not about the koolaid.

[Phil Vine]

I know. Maybe you've just gone on ice for 20 years and you're just where you were. I don't know.

[Suzanne]

No, but saying it's his fault that because he didn't believe. Yeah, it's a really cruel way of putting it. And I don't think they necessarily were very good with their words because that's not how you should put it. Because that sounds horrific. But if you put it in a way that says this was their journey, this was their journey on this planet, and they weren't here just for themselves. They were also here to teach a lot of other people a lot of other things.

[Phil Vine]

So strange to be hearing these words from Suzanne's mouth. All that stuff that Sarah McCrum and Ipeng had told her so long ago.

[Suzanne]

I think to change your personality, it changes, requires a huge amount of faith because you're gonna let go of everything you've known your whole life and you're before you get to the new. And that would be a very scary gap.

[Phil Vine]

So can I set aside your die hard belief in Ipeng for a minute? You can tell.

[Suzanne]

I don't. I don't know if it's die hard, but yeah, go ahead.

[Phil Vine]

Okay. You're unrelenting, unrelenting, unaffected by 20 years belief in Iping. If we could set that aside for a minute. Is it wrong to make huge amounts of money out of that process of helping people? Because it seems that's what the family has done.

[Suzanne]

In some ways it is wrong. But if it's to further the cause, then you Know, I don't think it is wrong if it's to further the cause, if it's to evolve more people.

[Phil Vine]

Well, you know them, you know them. Suzanne, you know Iping and you know the family and you've all lived in the same place. Is everyone there doing it to further the cause or is it furthering their cause?

[Suzanne]

Well, it. Well it is, it's both because it's like it is both. It's further in the cause and at the same time they're getting huge benefits and it's further in their cause.

[Phil Vine]

I asked Suzanne about Ipeng's devout follower and explainer in chief. Do you remember Sarah McCrum from Tarkov very well? Yeah. So she's not too far away from you. Sarah McCrum, manager of a bunch of various enterprises. The Lodge, the Energy bank. That's the home to Warwick's failed energy healing experiment Lice for Living, where they used to teach life technology to disabled kids. Suzanne's on the Gold coast and Sarah McCrum has her wealth creation business two hours north on the Sunshine Coast. This is a very beautiful energy.

[Suzanne]

It's present inside you already and all around you.

[Phil Vine]

Sarah McCrum who's now teaching people how to use Eastern philosophies to love money.

[Suzanne]

Yeah. That is interesting.

[Phil Vine]

Yeah. Is it right? I ask to put money making and energy healing in the same sentence.

[Suzanne]

I think that you can put them in the same sentence. Whether or not the human people are at the point where they can understand that. I mean there's so much now going on. I think took it to another level. I remember being so frustrated when I was there because I wanted to believe what she was teaching and I did believe it to an extent but I couldn't react it, I couldn't do it. And that frustrated me because I wished I could just believe because you know, a part of me really believed that it was the truth, but it was so far from my knowledge that it was very hard to digest.

[Phil Vine]

What about some of that stuff though? About learning how to be able to tell the future and fly and that sort of stuff? I remember Eddie talking about that. I mean that's pretty far fetched, isn't it? You don't believe in that anymore, do you? Or do you?

[Suzanne]

To believe in predicting, to believe in predicting the future, flying. I don't know. I think eventually people probably will, but I don't know if it'll be in my lifetime.

[Phil Vine]

You still believe that's possible from energy?

[Suzanne]

Everything's possible still.

[Phil Vine]

You're such a believer, aren't you? You're such a believer, you don't see.

[Suzanne]

Because I don't think I am. Okay, the truth is that we are all made of energy and everything is energy. So if you think about it right down to the basic core of things, what she's teaching isn't rocket science.

[Phil Vine]

But hey, you could build a few rockets with the money Ipeng's charged people over the years. That was definitely one of the questions burning in my brain. Aiping, you must have made millions from teaching people about energy. Where did that money all go? I wondered what we'd find if I went back with Suzanne to the lodge. I wondered how much it had changed over the years. Those 1960s chalets must be looking pretty tired. Maybe it's fallen into disrepair. I pictured AI Ping on a rocking chair, cutting a lonesome figure on her 1000 hectare ranch. All her followers and family working the four corners of the world, tumbleweed rolling by. They honestly were preparing for the end of the world. Remember John Smart, the farmer from EP1, Ipeng's neighbour for nine years? Yeah. They had tons and tonnes of rice and lentils and there was trucks coming in out of the air on a very regular basis talking about the heavy prepping that went on in the late 90s. And that thing he said about the road and they had to drive. There was only one way in. Unless you flew in, there was only one way in. So one way in, one way out. And they had to drive right past my driveway every single time they were coming in. So I thought perhaps the new neighbor might know what was happening there. Now, I managed to speak to a woman co managing the farm next door to the lodge. She wanted to remain anonymous. So what did she make of the place?

[Anonymous Neighbor]

Not really too sure to be honest. They're quite very quiet and secretive, so not really sure what goes on there.

[Phil Vine]

What makes you say they're secretive?

[Anonymous Neighbor]

Just the gates always locked and yeah, you don't really talk too much to them. It's obviously locked for a reason, so.

[Phil Vine]

It'S not like there's a wide choice of neighbours. They're the only humans for miles and miles. And who are they, as far as you know?

[Anonymous Neighbor]

I wouldn't have a clue. Tucaro Lodge, Takaro people. Yeah. You see lots of vehicles go in first thing in the morning and afternoon. It's just all their workers coming from Te Anaut for the day. So. Yeah.

[Phil Vine]

And what sort of work do they do?

[Anonymous Neighbor]

Building. Lots of building.

[Phil Vine]

I took a little peek on Google Earth. The satellite map shows a lot of activity, including Earthworks and a large new construction up on the hill behind the original hunting lodge.

[Anonymous Neighbor]

They've been building the house for a long time.

[Phil Vine]

And what. What is the house like? Still one up on the hill yet not too sure.

[Anonymous Neighbor]

A rumor on the street is. Is that it's a multi million dollar house. But yeah, for one of the owners that comes and stays.

[Phil Vine]

And have you heard of the owner Ipeng Wong?

[Anonymous Neighbor]

No.

[Phil Vine]

Did you know there was a cult up there?

[Anonymous Neighbor]

For a while have heard things but you never really know what to believe, I suppose.

[Phil Vine]

How many people do you think live up there?

[Anonymous Neighbor]

I'm not too sure actually. There's lots of. There's probably about 10 vehicles at least a day that go out there.

[Phil Vine]

And you don't want to give me your name, do you? What about just your first name?

[Anonymous Neighbor]

No.

[Phil Vine]

No. So much for my idea of abandoned buildings. Tumbleweed rocking chairs. Okay, this has got to be question number two. Are you rebuilding the cult? Iping? Is that what all this activity's about? Are all the people on site just workers working? Or are they followers following in questions 3 and 4? IPing. Are you still teaching that energy can heal everything? Looking back, do you have any regrets? I hit the phone lines again. There are two numbers for Takaro Lodge. This one.

[Suzanne]

There is no one available to take your call. Please record your message after the tone. Press star to discard the recording or press any digit to end the recording.

[Phil Vine]

Kia ora. I was hoping to speak with Sarah McCrum or AI Penguin if they're around. My name is Phil vine from Radio New Zealand. That was the number four Takaro Lodge when it was a high end spa. But the answer phone said nothing about bookings or anything. I contacted the visitor center in Te Ano. The centre told me the website for Takaro Lodge wasn't working and they didn't know what was going on there. So maybe they're not doing the tourism thing anymore. There is another lodge number though. This is the main number. Otakura Lodge.

[Suzanne]

Hello, you've reached Organic Farm New Zealand. We can't get to the phone right now. Leave us a message and we'll get back to you as soon as we can. Thanks.

[Phil Vine]

Some farm or other I'd never heard of. Dang. Maybe it's something completely different and they just inherited the phone number. I left my details just in case. They never rang back. Neither did the lodge. Organic Farm New Zealand. Seems like there's plenty going on. According to the website, they make high impact freeze dried snacks, soups and drinks. Looking on Google Earth, you can See tunnel houses on the property where food might be grown. On Facebook, there are a number of ads for jobs there. Kitchen assistants, seasonal workers, construction workers. The contact for the jobs caught my eye. A Croatian name, Vladka S. I'm not using surnames for followers, remember? And sure enough, she's fully linked in with the whole gang. Friends with Anna Kay, the director of an energy center in Slovenia. She's friends with Joel S, a former manager at the lodge. Two others who worked at the E Rejuvenation Clinic in Zagreb. Veronika C, a friend, follower from Arizona with Sonch F. And Fiona M, two of the Takaro three involved in the immigration case. Also Sarah McCrum and Aipeng Wong. Actually a caveat here. Vlatka S, the contact for the farm, used to be friends with AI Penguang. But just after I wrote that in May 2025, I. I discovered the guru had vanished from Facebook. A hard delete. I checked her Facebook page and Iping had disappeared from her friend list. And I thought, gosh, am I gaslighting myself? And was it there in the first place? I checked other friends and family that I'd made extensive notes of their Facebook pages. And yep, AI Ping Wong Philip wasn't anywhere to be seen. Ipeng's also not on the electoral rolls for the address at the lodge. And her LinkedIn page says she's a retired teacher, a teacher of natural health and nutrition. But I do have it on very good authority she's still living there. Hey, Suzanne. I'm now on critical batch, so I. I'd rather say goodbye rather than let the phone go. And this is not the last time we're going to talk. And maybe let's think about. Let's think about a visit to Takara Lodge. I reckon that might be quite interesting.

[Suzanne]

It would be very interesting. Yeah, I agree. That'd be good. All right. Like that. Lovely. I'll send you. Great. Thanks for calling me.

[Phil Vine]

Oh, no, lovely. Thank you. Thank you for talking to me. It's been a great conversation.

[Suzanne]

All right, talk to you too. You take care.

[Phil Vine]

You take care of that. That gallbladder of yours, okay?

[Suzanne]

All right. Okay.

[Phil Vine]

See you, Suzanne.

[Suzanne]

Bye now.

[Phil Vine]

Bye. I didn't know it, but it would be the last time we spoke. I did a bit more spade work on the tourism side of things. When you put Takaro into the company's office website, it comes up with another firm, Torora Trustee Ltd. That used to be called Takara Trustee, but got a name change in November 2020. Until last year, it used to have shares in another company called Torora Development Ltd. Previously called Torora Life Resort. Looks like the original title of the lot. Takaro. The Maori word for play, is out of favor and AI Penguang's name doesn't appear anywhere as far as I can see on any documents filed at the company's office yet. According to QV quotable value, the last market sale was 1998, when Ipeng arrived from Eastern Europe to set up the Doomsday Cult. If you look online, you'll find a very handsome website for a place called Taurora Life Resort. If you were a rich person on the other side of the world, environmentally tuned, health conscious, spiritually open, this would definitely speak to you.

[Penn Holderness]

A private estate located in New Zealand's.

[Phil Vine]

South island, nestled on the edge of.

[Penn Holderness]

Te Wahi Pounamu, a UNESCO World Heritage location and surrounded by 2.2.6 million hectares of untouched virgin forest.

[Phil Vine]

Looking at the stunning photos, it's unmistakably the old Takaro Lodge. So I'm thinking this is a reboot, a relaunch, but maybe not operational yet. Although the Tarora Life Resort website was launched in 2020, there seems no way of booking a room, just a contact page where you can leave your name and email. So who's running it? Tororo Development used to have one director, Vladka S, the same woman advertising on Facebook for all the horticultural jobs. There's another contact email there for Mary603 UK, and that's a number that keeps cropping up. The original company name for the Academy at The lodge was 603 Phenomena, the company behind the Energy bank in London, not that I'd expect you to remember, this was called Satellite 603 Limited. According to the company's house website in the UK, between 2004 and 2008, someone called Mary L was a director of iPeng's flagship operation in London that treated Warwick for his HIV. And as of 2023, Mary Elle is the new director at Tarora Development, overseeing things at the Lodge. What does all that mean? Well, as I was saying in EP5, it looks like a pretty small ecosystem. It may well be that these are people who've met in a shared spiritual space and separately and unconnectedly got into business together repeatedly. Or the whole thing could be interwoven with the common denominator, guru, AI Ping Wong, though her name appears nowhere. I can't prove that all or any of these people definitely belong to the wellness cult, but I can say that the commercial activities happening right now at the lodge, the Horticulture the new high end accommodation, are being run by people with a deep history of involvement in energy healing operations both here and overseas. Nothing for it but to hit the road. Who or what are we going to find at the lodge? It's autumn, a stunning blue sky day. The willows are just starting to turn some green, seeping back into the low hills. After a dry summer, there's a ghostly three quarter moon. Abandoned sheds, tired Land Rovers, disused railway stations. As I drive, I'm thinking about Suzanne. How she can't be here with me. Before I left, I found out something awful. I was just checking back through the Facebook connections of Iping's followers and former followers and I've come across Suzanne's Facebook page. There's nothing on it except a picture of her and it says remembering. We hope people who love Suzanne will find comfort in visiting her profile to remember and celebrate her life. Last time I talked to her, she'd just come out of hospital and we had this conversation about trusting conventional doctors. And they discovered what the problem was too late. She had aplastic anaemia, where your body doesn't produce enough blood cells. Treatment for aplastic anaemia might include medications, blood transfusions or a stem cell transplant. Man, I hope she did go down the conventional path. It was quick. She died maybe a month after we last spoke. In true Suzanne's spirit, we'll ask guests to think of something they've found and kept. We'll be asking guests to let what their find was as we passed the microphone around. You're all welcome to place something on Suzanne's coffin to be buried with her. Oh my gosh, I feel sick. Giant macrocarpa windbreaks, hide shy farmhouses. An enormous black bull alone in a paddock. Pine cones sell for $8 a bag. And I'm seven k's from the lodge, feeling a bit nervous. So I'm just going to keep talking to you while I do this. Quite sure what I'm nervous about. It's really important to give Iping a say in this and Sarah McCrum, if she's there. I checked the electoral Rolls and Sarah McCrum and I think her partner Nico are put down at this address. She's definitely keeping a low profile. Fair enough. Some pretty controversial stuff went on here at the lodge and in Slovenia and in Croatia. So yeah, I really want to give her the chance to put all this stuff in context. Not just the historic stuff like Yanis's death. He died up here. Kind of feeling that right now. And Sharon, who died in the hospital in Cairns. Also Warwick for that matter, he didn't go back on the anti retroviral for his hiv. His choice. And you know, Glenn said, you know, maybe that was just how he wanted it to be and fair enough, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess those promises of curing HIV with energy, they were made so strongly and yeah, kind of feels like maybe some of these people were guinea pigs. Maybe that's a bit harsh. But I. I really want to ask maybe Sarah as well as Iping what the idea was. Were they trying to help humanity? Were they simply trying to make money? They made a lot of it. Where did it go? Yeah, tons of things to ask. Here comes a car. The other way. Let's see what we got. Ah, construction traffic, private property. Follow arrows to construction, private property. No trespassing. Okay, so looks like this is where I walk from. First issue the locked gate. Something that new neighbour talked about. Well, I've come this far, should probably try and talk to someone. No intercom, no mobile or phone number to ring. It wasn't like I could just cooey over the fence. I know from last time it's a bloody long driveway, about an hour and a half's walk. Oh well, in for a penny and for a pound I scrambled over the hip height wire fence line. By the look of it, I wasn't the first person to do that. But that brought with it a bunch of legal problems. It means I can't play you any of my recordings I made after I climbed that fence or even tell you many of the details about what I saw up at the lodge. I got hit with a trespass notice. According to our lawyers. This is what I can say. I walked from the locked gate down the road through two big concrete constructions that looked like the start of an imposing wall. I can tell you about those because I could see them from the other side of the gate. What else can I say? Well, I wasn't doing anything covert or trying to intrude. As we've been all the way through this story, we were utterly transparent and just wanted to hear from Iping and ask the questions we've been talking about in this episode. After walking a long way up the drive, I knocked on an office door and spoke to the people inside. I was open that I was a journalist and I wanted an interview. I genuinely hoped we could negotiate a discussion. But when they asked me to leave, I left. They drove me back to the gate off their private property. I can play the audio. Thank you so much. For the lift. And yeah, so if you see Ipeng or someone who sees Iping, if you could ask her to get hold of me, that would be fantastic. Thank you very much. Cheers. You're not going to shake my hand? No, not there.

[Suzanne]

Okay.

[Phil Vine]

It's not even a fist bump. Please, please. My chauffeur stroke bouncer told me to have a nice day. He sat in the car watching and waiting for me to get in my rental car and leave. I don't think he's going to go until I go. So, yeah, no luck. No luck with Sarah McCrum or Ipeng Wong. But you never know, this might result in them getting in touch. Maybe it's worth it. And I have been trespassed so I can't go back. And they have told Te Anau police that's fine too. But gosh, that kind of pretty heavy handed approach doesn't really promote kind of openness and understanding. To me it was strange being there where Yanis died. Whether or not it is a place of energy healing, I don't know, but got a weird vibe. Might just be me. Those people are really aggressive for people who are supposed to be meditating. Peaceful people. Anyway, I better ring Tim now. The boss let him know. Well, yes, it did result in them getting in touch with us, but not in a good way. They sent a letter from a very expensive firm of lawyers accusing me of trespass and threatening legal action unless I agreed not to use the audio I'd recorded at the lodge. All in all, this seems to have been a concerted effort to to prevent this podcast from happening. But if you're listening to this, then we got here despite their best efforts and we'll keep on quietly and persistently asking for answers to those burning questions because we believe you deserve to know. In lieu of an interview with Ipeng, can I offer a little rerun of what she said at the end of the last doco in 2004 when her followers were about to be deported, her teaching institute was about to be closed down.

[Suzanne]

They don't understand us. Yeah, we will appear again. I'm sure we can get hundred percent, thousand percent sure we can get again. Nobody can take away. This is so advanced, so good things. We will make them to understand us.

[Phil Vine]

Nobody can take this away. This is so advanced. We will make them to understand us.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, I mean I think it's really in a lot of these cases understanding what these figures offer individuals.

[Phil Vine]

Remember Stephanie from City University London, really.

[Penn Holderness]

Often about providing a sense of identity, of meaning in a very secular Materialistic society offering a sense of belonging as well and community. And we know that people are feeling, feeling in today's society a lot more isolated and estranged from community ties. And so it's not just leadership that the guru offers, it's the much broader sense of meaning, identity, of community, of belonging that they're able to provide people. And not just a belief system, but also a strong sense of emotional attachment.

[Phil Vine]

And Anka Richter, our cult watcher, reminds us it's not a black and white thing. Yes, cults can be bad, but most of them start off with good intentions.

[Anka Richter]

I would say giving people the benefit of the doubt and just assuming that a lot of people just want to help and they think they found a great method and then they found that they could make money with that too. And they get a lot of adoration and they have followers and they create a business. Now all these things are not completely unusual or harmful. There is always something that works for people that brings them there in the first place.

[Penn Holderness]

And I think this is a really important point, not only for those who find themselves following these figures, but may know people who are. Don't cut them off. It's the worst thing you can do. And actually through maintaining a sense of common ground with these people, rather than just dismissing their beliefs system or the gurus that they follow, it's maintaining these friendships and relationships outside of the group. Often when you listen to people who have found themselves following some type of guru or cult, what takes them out of it is realizing some type of contradiction or hypocrisy within the group or within the guru figure that they're following.

[Anka Richter]

These are people like you, me. These are not widows. They did not choose to be exploited or not have their cancer treated or so on. Yeah, they might have believed in something that maybe, you know, not everyone should believe in, or we think they got their facts wrong or whatever, or they were blinded by a charismatic person. But in the end they deserve the same respect and human rights and mental health care and so on. So I think it's time to not just look at the so called evil leaders of these groups, but actually look at the bigger picture and have compassion for people who are in these groups and not blame them for having ended up in there in the first place. Trust me, this can happen to anybody and no one is immune to it. So I'm angry at these things happening for sure, I'm concerned. But I'm also here to ask for more compassion and understanding.

[Phil Vine]

The people we've met in this podcast came to Iping hoping for something she didn't deliver. Undoubtedly there will be those with positive stories to tell, but we can't shy away from the fact that there has been some human damage. Harm has been done, maybe more in the moral sense than in the legal sense. As the police sergeant said who investigated Yiannis death, the guy with the melanoma. We may consider that morally there's been something done wrong, but there's nothing criminally. Not criminal harm, sure, but there's been some pretty serious consequences for Yiannis, Suzanne's mum, and for Warwick. Harm, which historically happened in physical spaces, in the lodge, at the energy bank, but now wellness cults can be joined at the click of a mouse or the swipe of a finger.

[Suzanne]

You have to think about the person who is online, getting their information online and following charismatic social media influencers. You know, there's a really interesting dynamic there. A lot of these folk have podcasts and a lot of these folk record themselves for, you know, YouTube and tick tock, etc.

[Phil Vine]

John Patrick from Rutgers University.

[Suzanne]

A user or a follower gets this, you know, has these perceptions of intimacy and, and the way that a lot of these people create their podcasts or create their, you know, video diaries. It's this kind of confessional nature that's going on, almost inviting the listener into a conversation that they're going to be let in on a secret. The wellness thing. If you have lots of money, it's kind of your choice, isn't it, really.

[Penn Holderness]

How you spend it.

[Suzanne]

If you're going to spend it in a bonkers be like that, then check. Fair enough. But you know, when it comes to really serious life threatening conditions and the.

[Penn Holderness]

Vulnerability of people in that situation, then.

[Suzanne]

It'S unforgivable in my book, really.

[Phil Vine]

Well, here's some thoughts after nearly 12 months on this story. Cliff Notes, if you like, for aspiring gurus or maybe things to watch out for if you think you might be coming into the orbit of a cult leader. So long as you never once admit that you're wrong, there will always remain the possibility in people's minds that you are right all the time. Don't rule out anything. If you don't specifically say you can't do something. Those who believe in you with blind faith may assume you can. The vagueness and dismissiveness are an excellent cloak against honest inquiry. The best answer to a difficult question is to ask the questioner what they think the people are very susceptible to a complete recipe for a better life, free of any contradictions or ambiguity or any greyness at all. Call it situational vulnerability or just the desire to believe in something. No one is immune. And once someone is indoctrinated with these ideas, they have half life. They can lay dormant for as long as 20 years, no matter how bonkers they seem.

[Suzanne]

Every day we eat fresh food and next day we go to toilet, pee and poo. So the universe energy the same thing when we receive the universe energy and we need release the negative energy to get the benefit. Health, Happiness and wisdom Life.

[Phil Vine]

I'll leave you with the Peter sellers and Shirley MacLaine movie Being There. As a viewer, you spend the whole film laughing at rich, brainy people who fall for the vacant suggestions of someone who appears to be a simpleton. At the end, though, there's a twist. Chauncey in a dark suit with an umbrella is seen walking away from camera down to the shore of the lake and then across the surface he walks on water and we're left wondering whether we were wrong all along and the monosyllabic gardener did in fact possess mystical powers way beyond our Ken.

[Suzanne]

Life.

[Phil Vine]

Is a state of mind. Thanks for listening. This podcast is dedicated to Suzanne and and her mum Sharon to Warwick and to Yanis and hey, if anyone out there has some information about this wellness cult and its business activities, whether you're a follower, an ex follower or someone who knows someone who is, please get in touch. Phil Vinez A special thanks to all our expert guests to Anka Richter, author of cult trip, to Dr. Stephanie Baker from City University, Dr. Emily Yang from Western Sydney University and Dr. John Patrick Allum from Rutgers to BBC director Annie Kossoff to Irina Divkovic and Croatian translator Liliana Jovasich to ex cult followers Caroline, Eddie and Simona to farmer John Smart and the present day neighbour of the lodge and camera woman Belinda Walsh. To all those fine people who lent their voices to this production Marika Kabazi, Finn Blackwell, Jeremy Reese, Jill Bonnet, Amanda Gillies, Ruth Kwah, Adrienne holley and Caitlin McGee. Thank you. Big ups to our marvellous RNZ engineers Ben Pearce, Rangi Polwick and Jeremy Ansell. Thanks to my producery colleagues Liz Garten, William Ray and Justin Gregory. Cheers to Amrita Marx for the stunning tile visuals, Luke Bottle and Robert Stewart and our legal team, my executive editor Tim Watkins and the person that makes everything happen, Brianna Juratic. Greg, you can read more about this mind boggling wellness cult and see photos of all the characters involved on the RNZ website. Links in the show Notes Shout out to Nick Dufries beatnik for his music. Also, cheers to the BBC and many thank you. Thanks to Warner Brothers for access to the News Hub archives. Kaki Teano Hey Phil vine here, host of the Lodge. Please keep an eye out for Hiviz Manaqi, another fascinating podcast from RNZ about the unseen Mahi of Mori wardens. Follow and listen to Hiviz Manaaki on Apple podcasts, Spotify or any podcast app.

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