Do THIS Every Day to Rewire Your Brain From Stress and Anxiety

Summary

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The Mel Robbins Podcast

Episode: Do THIS Every Day to Rewire Your Brain From Stress and Anxiety

Date: April 27, 2026
Host: Mel Robbins
Guest: Dr. Nadine Burke Harris

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Episode Overview

In this powerful and practical episode, Mel Robbins sits down with renowned pediatrician, author, and former California Surgeon General, Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, to reveal how childhood trauma and adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) wire our brains and bodies for a lifetime of stress, anxiety, and reactivity—and, crucially, how anyone can use simple, evidence-based daily strategies to “rewire” their brain and calm their nervous system. Together, Mel and Dr. Burke Harris break down the science behind trauma, the “buffering” practices that heal us, and a roadmap for creating healthier relationships with ourselves and others.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Trauma and Understanding ACEs

• Trauma is not just the event, but the body's ongoing biological response to a stressor.
  • Dr. Burke Harris clarifies: “At its core, trauma is the biological response to overwhelming stress... It's actually the body's reaction to that stress.” (08:23)
  • Mel shares her long-held confusion, realizing “trauma is your body’s response to the thing that happened, and not only in the moment... but that it continues to respond in similar ways.” (08:39)
• Top 10 Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) include:

Transcript

[A]

Hey, it's your friend Mel. And welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Have you ever had a moment where you think, why am I like this? I mean, you're doing fine, you're functioning, you're successful, and yet somehow one email, one comment, one conflict with somebody and suddenly you are flooded with emotions, you're reactive, you're triggered or you completely shut down. Or maybe you're wondering, why is my spouse like this? Why do they shut down? Why do they get triggered? Why are they so strict or clingy or they're such a perfectionist. Well, today you're gonna learn the surprising reason why. Our medical expert today is a world renowned expert on the long term impact of childhood trauma and adverse experiences. And before you go, okay, no, no, no, I haven't had trauma. I want you to listen to this because it is going to explain so much about who you are and who some of the people that you love deeply are right now in your adult life. Dr. Nadine Burke Harris is gonna teach you that this kind of behavior where you're so emotionally reactive or you shut down or you get triggered by the easiest thing, it is a neurological and biological pattern that started in childhood. See, there is a stress response that your body learned a long time ago, but now you're still trapped in it as an adult. Now, instead of making yourself wrong, Dr. Burke Harris is here to teach you how to break free from the patterns in your past so you can finally heal yourself and feel in control of your emotions, your thoughts, your actions and your life. Instagram Teen accounts have automatic protections for what teens see and who can contact them. Plus time management tools.

[B]

And Instagram will continue adding built in safety features to help create age appropriate experiences.

[A]

Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens [e-mail] teenaccounts.

[B]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from MIDI Health. Women's midlife health issues have been trivialized and ignored. It's time for a change. It's time for miti. MIDI is covered by major insurance. Making expert care accessible. Clinicians provide one on one consultations, listen to your unique needs and offer tailored data driven solutions. MIDI works to make you feel seen, heard and prioritized. Visit joinmitty.com to book your virtual visit MIDI the care women deserve.

[A]

Hey, it's your friend Mel. And welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited for the conversation today. I'm so excited that you're here. It is such an honor to spend time with you and to Be together. And if you're a new listener, I want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And I also want to point out the fact that somebody shared this with you means that you have people in your life that care deeply about you and about to listen to is an extraordinary gift that can change your life. I cannot wait for you to meet Today's remarkable guest, Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, who is one of the most important voices in trauma science and public health. She is a medical doctor, a pediatrician who trained at Stanford University, and she holds a Master's in Public health from Harvard. Dr. Burke Harris is the founder of the center for Youth Wellness where she pioneered clinical and research models for screening and treating toxic stress in families and children. She was appointed the very first Surgeon General of the state of California, where Dr. Burke Harris launched the nation's first statewide initiative to train more than 20,000 healthcare providers to screen for adverse childhood experiences, also known as ACEs, and implement trauma informed care. She is the author of the bestselling book the Deepest, a groundbreaking resource that has helped shift trauma from being seen as a psychological issue to to being understood as a biological one. Dr. Burke Harris has helped transform how science understands the connection between early stress, the nervous system, immune function, and long term health. And today she is here to help you and the people that you love break free from the frustrating patterns that are holding you back from creating the life that you deserve as an adult. So please help me welcome the incredible Dr. Nadine Burke Harris to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

[B]

Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

I am a tremendous admirer of your work and I would love for you to start by explaining how might my life be different if I take everything to heart that you're about to share with us about this extraordinary research related to experiences in your childhood and how they manifest in your behavior as an adult and what you can do to set yourself free. What could change about my life if I really apply what I'm about to learn from you?

[B]

The biggest thing that will change in your life if you apply this is that stress is no longer going to be in the driver's seat of your life. So what that means is understanding how stress gets under our skin and changes our biology allows us to use that biology and work with it instead of working against it. And so it'll help us understand ourselves better and also to be able to understand the people in our lives better. Right? And so I think if folks really apply this science to their lives, what they'll find Number one is that it can improve their health and wellbeing. Number two, relationships will become less reactive and more connected. And number three, it's a guidepost around how to set up your life for the support that we need. To be functioning in a way that's just more balanced and less effortful going forward.

[A]

That would be nice to be able to move through your day without feeling like you're dragging the weight of the world or that you're in a straitjacket that you seem to have put yourself in. And I believe you because your work has had a huge impact on me. In fact, understanding both in myself and when there were patterns that I didn't quite understand or things that would trigger me, or I would get easily emotionally flooded and pissed off and screaming at people. And then I'm apologizing, and then I didn't understand why. And I just felt like I couldn't change my behavior. I thought there was something wrong with me because I felt like somehow I was choosing to be this way. And a lot of what your work has done for me is to help me see that there are a lot of things about my behavior, at least that used to be present, that were part of the biological and the neurological conditioning that happened during my childhood, and that this is true for everybody. And so what I'd love to dig into, because I do think everything that you're gonna teach us today is profoundly life changing. Like, you'll never look at yourself, your childhood, or anybody around you the same again. Let's talk a little bit about what is trauma? And your work specifically talks about adverse childhood experiences. What is trauma?

[B]

At its core, trauma is the biological response to overwhelming stress. Okay, so a lot of us think of it as the stressor, the thing that happened to us, but it's actually the body's reaction to that stress.

[A]

Oh, I think I had this wrong. For a long time, I always thought trauma was the thing that happened. You're saying trauma is your body's response to the thing that happened, and not only in the moment that it happened, but that it continues to respond in similar ways exactly right after it. Okay, I get it now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, one of the things that's really amazing about your work is you are the first researcher to connect childhood trauma and chronic stress to all kinds of things like heart disease, autoimmune disorder, diabetes, cancer, substance abuse, and things that are even more subtle that we struggle with in our adult lives that we may not realize are tied to something deeper. What was it that made you lean in, in terms of what you were seeing in your patients to start to put these pieces together. Dr. Burke Harris.

[B]

Well, to be honest, what really happened for me was I started my career, my clinical practice, opening a clinic in one of San Francisco's most underserved neighborhoods because I was really motivated by improving health outcomes for the vulnerable. And what I was seeing was that over and over again, patients were being referred to me for adhd, or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. And, you know, as I was doing what I was trained to do, you know, history and physical, just for a lot of my patients, it felt like there was a disconnect, right. Because I noticed that the patients who were having them who are struggling the most were also the ones who were dealing with some of the most difficult things in their lives. Right. The most stress and, and trauma going on around them. But really, the thing that kind of broke it open for me was a patient who was a little boy who stopped growing, stopped growing, literally. So this was a 7 year old child who was referred to me by the school nurse. And he was having difficulty with behavior and focus and paying attention in class. But when he walked in to my exam room, the thing that I noticed about him was that he was itty bitty, right? He was seven years old, but his height and weight were at the 50th percentile for a 4 year old.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah. So when I sat down and I asked his mom, I said, okay, so when did you notice these behavior problems started? And she said, really? It was right, you know, when he was 4. And I was like, wait a minute, this is so weird. Yeah, Behavior problem started when he was 4. I look at his growth chart. He's a growth arrest when he's 4. And so I'm starting to put it together. And I said, did something happen when he was 4? And his mom was just waterworks. And so we had to take, you know, took my patient, took him to the waiting room and his mom went on to tell me the story that he experienced a serious trauma. So he had a sexual assault when he was 4 years old and he had growth arrest. He had struggled with learning. And also after that, his, you know, his asthma and his breathing problems had gotten a lot worse. So if a kid's not growing, you call the endocrinologist, right? That's the hormone specialist. And I called the endocrinologist. I said, you know what, this is, this is so weird. Is this possible that this child could have had all of this, could be because of this trauma? And she Said, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The effect of stress hormones could do that. And I said, okay, so what does that mean in terms of treatment? And she said, the treatment, if that's the case, is not hormonal therapy, it's talk therapy. Right. You need psychotherapy and best practices with, you know, therapy for kids, developmentally appropriate therapy for kids that will help his stress hormones to normalize, and that is what is necessary for him to grow again. And literally that's what we did.

[A]

Did it work?

[B]

It did work. It really. It improved his growth, it improved his asthma. The challenge was, for that particular family, there were more stressors and more stressors. And this is a big part of the reason why I've ended up dedicating my career to studying the science of stress and resilience.

[A]

I wanna make sure that, as you were listening to Dr. Burke Harris, that you really got one of the key takeaways there, because I think it's fascinating to call the endocrinologist and say, wait a minute, I'm having this insight that something traumatic on the outside impacted the physiology and the chemical structure of this kid. And now we're seeing a physical manifestation of that because his growth has been arrested.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

What are some surprising ways, Dr. Burke Harris, that traumatic or adverse experiences can show up in your adult life? But on the surface, particularly if you're one of these people, you're like, I'm going to work. I'm doing my thing. Like, I'm not gonna like that show up. That could be tied to something deeper.

[B]

I would say one of the most common ways is how it shows up in our relationships, right? Because our relationships are where our stress response gets tested over and over and over.

[A]

Are you talking about marriage, raising children, going to work, Correct?

[B]

Yes, correct. So I am talking about marriage and raising children and going to work, right? These are the most common ways. Because what happens in our relationship is that when we have an overactive stress response, right, A couple of things can happen. One, it can get triggered when there's a reminder of something, right? Or if we somehow in some way don't feel safe. And so that means that the stress hormones that are designed to save our lives from a mortal threat can go from zero to a hundred. And so that can show up with your partner, says something and you snap at them, right? Or truthfully. And this is why this work is so important. Your child does something, right, that triggers or activates you, and we maybe respond in a way that we're not proud of. One of the things that's important for me to add is that it can show up as us saying something to someone else. Right. Or it can be really internalized. Right. So for some folks, they don't say anything to anybody else, but they get headaches. Right. They get neck pain and neck tension. They have gastrointestinal challenges. They get autoimmune disease. Right. Because that stress response is activating over and over again. And when it activates, it also activates our immune system.

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wanna make sure that I have the terminology right. As we dive deeper into kind of what to do. And as you're listening, just stay with me on this because I think it's very important that we open up the aperture and that you allow yourself to really hear what Dr. Burke Harris is gonna explain in just a second about things that can be present in your childhood that you think didn't impact you, but are proven through research to be adverse childhood experiences that you should really, like, think about and take in. And so what I'm learning so far is that there are very adverse and tragic and unfair and scary things that may happen to you and that do happen to people. And the way that your body responds to that threat is the trauma, what your body remembers, how it responds. Yes. And would you just explain for the person listening, what are the top 10 adverse childhood experiences that can have a traumatic imprint on you and that can create an overactive stress response as an adult?

[B]

Absolutely. So as I was caring for patients and seeing that my patients who had experienced more stressors, more adversity, more difficulties at home were also having increased risk of asthma, autoimmune disease, behavioral challenges, learning disorders. Right. All these different things. I started diving into the research and saying, like, okay, well, I'm the doctor here, so I gotta figure out how to, you know, what do I do about this? And so one of the seminal pieces of research is the Adverse Childhood Experiences Study. It was published in 1998. Right. So now, almost 30 years ago, it was conducted by the CDC, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and Kaiser Permanente. And what they did was they asked 17 and a half thousand people. That's a lot of people, Mel, For a research study about their history of 10 categories of adverse childhood experiences. These included physical, emotional, or sexual abuse, physical or emotional neglect, or growing up in a household where a parent had mental health disorder, substance dependence, was incarcerated, where there was parental separation or divorce or intimate partner violence. So Those were the 10 aces that they looked at. And what they found was shocking. Right. The first was that ACEs were incredibly common. Two thirds of people had experienced at least one ACE, right? One in eight folks had experienced four or more.

[A]

Four or more of those, yes.

[B]

In fact, the CDC just updated this research. Now, nationally, it's one in six individuals have experienced four or more of these traditional ACEs. But the second thing that they found was that there was a dose response relationship between these ACEs and health problems. Right? So a person with four more ACEs was four and a half times as likely to experience depression, was 7 times as likely to experience alcohol dependence, was 10 times as likely to be dependent on opiates. But they were also two and a half times as likely to develop heart disease. Right. Almost three times as likely to develop chronic lung disease. And at first people thought, oh, okay, you have a rough childhood, you're more likely to drink and smoke and do all these things that affect your health. That's, that's what it is. But it turns out that some very smart researchers actually looked at what happens when you remove the impact of health damaging behaviors. And that was only about 50% of the risk. So the good news is that, you know, if you've experienced these aces and you don't engage in any health damaging behavior, you're not sedentary, you, you eat really healthy, you exercise regularly, they. That removes about 50% of the risk.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But the other half, the risk was

[A]

just the adverse childhood experience was just

[B]

the impact of the overactive stress response. Right?

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

It's like, because when, when we, when we activate our stress response, right. It also activates our immune response, right. So we get increased inflammation in our bodies. And that's part of the reason we, why we see increase increased risk for things like heart disease and autoimmune disease. And the good news is there's a lot that people can do to prevent adverse outcomes. And one of the key is buffering.

[A]

Dr. Burkharris, what exactly is buffering?

[B]

Buffering is a set of interventions that helps the body be able to re regulate itself.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So buffering can be a safe, stable, and nurturing presence. Buffering can be an intervention, like a therapeutic intervention. And, you know, as a physician, I would say that even biological buffering can even include, for example, pharmacotherapy. I'll just give you an example. So my husband and I have four kids. So when something scary or stressful happens with one of our boys, right, what's the first thing that we do? We grab our kids, we bring them in, and we say, you're okay. Right. And we, we're calm, we're Regulated, right? And we say. We say, you're okay. It's gonna be okay. That was scary, wasn't it? Right? We acknowledge the fear. We let them know that they're safe, right? And we pull them in. Maybe we pull em into a hug. What does that do? First of all, the hug releases oxytocin. Oxytocin directly blocks the activation of the biological stress response. Right. So we're literally releasing hormones in their bodies to be able to inhibit the activation of the stress response. But the other thing that we do is help them understand, okay, what happens when we feel all these big feelings, right? We feel them, we see them, we recognize them. And then if you're our kids, right, you get help. And then that brings things back to baseline again. And so that is essentially, that's buffering.

[A]

So let me just see if I'm tracking with you. So if trauma is not the thing that happened, it's your body's response to it, and it creates this overactive stress response. Buffering is what you intentionally do to lower that stress response. When you experience it in your life, it's like kind of soothing your. Is that what it's like?

[B]

Buffering is what you intentionally do to bring yourself back into balance.

[A]

Oh, I get it.

[B]

When we talk about the impact of adversity or stress or trauma, one of the most important things that the science shows is that adversity and stress can lead to trauma in absence of adequate buffering caregiving systems. What it does is that it helps our kids learn how to process, how to regulate themselves and how to get back to baseline. Right. And so that's what. That's what buffering does.

[A]

Is there a way you can illustrate buffering?

[B]

Yes. Okay. I have a great, great example of this.

[A]

Okay, good. Because I like visual examples. And I'm gonna explain this. If you're listening, don't panic. I got you. I'm gonna explain this.

[B]

So a great example or a visual someone could think of in their mind is like a teeter totter.

[A]

Oh. Like a seesaw kind of thing. Goes up and down on a playground. Okay, got it.

[B]

And I happen to have one right here.

[A]

Okay, great.

[B]

So when you think about stress or adversity, Right. If you have a teeter totter and it's balanced on a fulcrum. Right. You can think of stress or adversity as kind of like a downward force on one end of the teeter totter.

[A]

Okay, so something happens now. The teeter totters down.

[B]

Right? Exactly. Then the way that our body's Biological stress response works is that we want to maintain balance. That's what keeps it healthy. Our stress response is designed to save our lives from a mortal threat. Right. And it works best when we keep it in balance. So on one side, there's stress and adversity, and then on the other side, we have safe, stable, and nurturing relationships. We have regulating practices like breathing techniques and exercise and mindfulness. We have trauma informed systems and trauma informed care. And that keeps us in balance. Now, one of the things that a lot of people don't realize is that where this fulcrum is set, this fulcrum on the bottom of the teeter totter.

[A]

Yeah. It's normally in the middle.

[B]

Right.

[A]

On a playground.

[B]

Right. On the playground, it's in the middle.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The age at which you experience a major stressor or a trauma can actually change the location of that fulcrum, making

[A]

either the adversity more pronounced and harder to balance out of.

[B]

Right, Exactly. So what that means is that the younger you are, when you experience a stressor or trauma or adversity, you need way more buffering on the other side to be able to balance that out. So if I move this fulcrum over. Right.

[A]

And what Dr. Burke Harris is doing is she's moving the base of the teeter totter over to one side, so it's not an even teeter totter anymore.

[B]

Right. So you have a short end over here, which is on the buffering side, and then you have this really long end over here on the adversity side. Because what we understand is that adversity when we're younger, which is a time where we're more biologically plastic. Right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

It actually can shape the developmental trajectory. Your brain and body become wired to respond to stress. So you need way, way more buffering on the other side. And that's a big part of the reason why, if some of your listeners are like, sure, I experienced some adversity, but that was way back when. Right. And now I'm fine. And I don't know why this should even still be bothering me. Right. I got a good job. My life seems like it's great, but I notice that I'm still, like, triggered sometimes. Right. It's because the adversity that we experience needs to be balanced out by a lot more buffering in order for us.

[A]

Because you didn't get it back then, Right?

[B]

Exactly. People used to think that stressors or traumatic experiences that happened in, like, infancy, like, oh, if you don't remember it, it didn't affect you. And it turns out it's the exact opposite. Right. The younger you are, those experiences that happen in infancy, they can actually shape the way that your stress response is wired. Right? So you may not remember the actual event, but the body remembers.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. You know, this is one of those interviews, Dr. Burke Harris, where I forget that I'm interviewing because my mouth is on the floor. And I'm thinking of so many people that I wish were right here with me right now to hear this. And that's the coolest thing about this being a podcast episode, that you can share this with people right now. And in fact, I want to take a quick pause so that we can hear a word from our sponsors. But more importantly, as you've been listening, I want you to share this with somebody that you love and don't go anywhere. We're going to be getting into more of what you can do about this when we return, so stay with me. I want to tell you about one of our sponsors that I use, Enjoy and love every single day, Aura Digital Frames. And you need to know about this because Mother's Day is coming up. And can we agree on something? Flowers are beautiful. I love flowers. But after two or three days, they can look pretty rough on the kitchen counter. So how about you give your mom a digital frame that sits on the kitchen counter? That's exactly where mine is. I'm talking about aura frames. Aura is a digital frame that turns memories into something your mom will see every single day. And the best thing about it is you can preload the digital frame for your mom and send it to her named number one by wirecutter. You can save on the gifts mom love by visiting auraframes.com for a limited time listeners. That's you can get $25 off their best selling Carver mat frame with code MEL auraframes.com promo code MEL and support the Mel Robbins podcast by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. There's a difference between liking a house and actually getting it. Redfin is built to close that gap. Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. So when you find a home you

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[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Is that kind of how it works?

[B]

Yeah. In fact, it's actually a little bit more interesting than that. Right. So you're like, of course your body remembers it now. So there's been some really fascinating research on this. This was really powerful. What they did was researchers took these baby rats and they stressed them out, right, by handling them, and then they gave them back to their moms. And some moms naturally did a lot of buffering. So lots of licking and grooming, that's what rat moms do. And some moms, not so much. They didn't do a lot. And then when those baby rats grew up, they did all these, you know, tests on them. And what they found was that the rats that had a lot of buffering did better on cognitive tests. Right. They were more stress tolerant. So they were more able to explore, they were more adventurous when they actually measured their biological stress response. Their stress response shut itself off more normally after the stressor was gone. And this was really important. When those rats had their own babies, they were more likely to do lots of buffering, lots of licking and grooming. Right. And the ones who didn't receive a lot of buffering care, it was the opposite. Like, they were less stress tolerant. Their stress response would stay on longer after a stressor. So after the stressor's already gone, they're still fired up with the stress hormones. Right. And when they had their own babies, they were less likely to do the buffering care. And what was wild about it was that these behaviors, they could actually, they were tied to markers on the epigenetic marker. So markers, not changes to the genetic code, but markers on the DNA to tell the body, like which parts of the genetic code get ready.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So then what they did with the next generation of rat babies, they. I don't know if they were watching Lifetime tv. They. They switched them at birth.

[A]

What?

[B]

Right. Okay, so the, The.

[A]

The ones that grew up with. With rat moms and dads that gave a lot of cuddling and licking, Right.

[B]

They went to the low buffering mom, and the. The ones that were from a low buffering mom, they cross fostered them to a high buffering mom. And what they found was they took on the stress reactivity of their rearing mother, not of their biological mother. And then even the epigenetic markers were of their rearing mother, not of their biological mother. And what that showed was that experience of receiving buffering actually changed the epigenetic markers for these baby rats. So it actually changed the way their DNA was read and expressed, and that was what translated into changes in behavior.

[A]

That's really exciting, because if I'm tracking correctly and you tell me if I've got this or not, you are basically saying that even if you have had a lot of adverse experiences or traumatic experiences, and you did not receive the support and the nurturing and the intervention that you needed at the time, that the research shows that if you recognize that and you provide that to yourself now, that changes you, and it changes your DNA almost in terms of what's firing, and it opens the door to a completely different way to experience your life. Is that what you're saying?

[B]

That's exactly right. It changes your biology. So when we experience something stressful or traumatic, it activates our biological stress response. And that it actually involves a lot of our body system, like the brain, the immune system, our hormonal systems, even the way our DNA is read and transcribed. And in absence of adequate buffering caregiving systems, what can happen is that our stress response can actually stay on high alert. And then that increases the risk for not only some of the stuff we typically associate with Trauma. Right. Maybe anxiety or depression, mental health or behavioral health challenges. But it turns out that it also increases the risk for things like headache, asthma, autoimmune disease, heart disease, cancer. Right. And that is because of these changes that we see to our biological systems when we don't have enough buffering.

[A]

Well, it kind of makes sense because if you have something that flipped on your fight or flight survival mechanism and you didn't have any buffering that helped you flip it off and start to feel safe again, your body starts to run at that rate, always under threat. I mean, I woke up for my God. I had an incident in the fourth grade where I woke up in the middle of sleeping during a sleepover and found an older kid on top of me and immediately, like, possumed and disassociated and froze. That was the response in your definition to what was happening in my body. I didn't remember it. I didn't remember it for over a decade and a half.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then had this moment where I was listening to somebody else tell a similar story, and the whole thing came flooding back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it took me another decade and a lot of therapy to recognize that the experience that I had, from being in the fourth grade to being a grown woman with a job and kids, and I'm married and I'm able to mostly pay my bills and I'm somewhat functioning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But every single morning for three decades, I would wake up and have this intense sense of dread. No matter what was going on, it could be the most beautiful day. It could be a weekend. We could have incredible plans. And in my body, I felt this, like, oh, yeah, something's wrong, someone's mad. Like just this deep thing. And what I've come to learn and your work has been a huge part of this. Is that is what you're talking about. My body was remembering the experience of waking up the morning after it happened. And I didn't tell anybody what had happened. So there was nobody to buffer me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it stayed with me, and I didn't even remember it. And so I feel like understanding that there are experiences that your body remembered. And if there's aspects of your adult life that just don't seem to make sense, they're not how you want them to be. This is a door you can open to really start to heal and take control.

[B]

And one of the key is buffering.

[A]

And even if you didn't get it back, then we can use buffering techniques to be able to calm down an overactive stress response that you've probably had since childhood.

[B]

Right, Right. So that's exactly right. So let me give an example.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Right. So let me not be hypothetical here. So, Mel, real talk. When I read about the ACE study and I was working on trying to find solutions for my patients.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Part of the reason why it was so important to me is because I grew up in a household with a mom who had untreated mental illness. My mom suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. It was buck wild sometimes.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So let me just tell you, even worse, I will say in my own personal experience, even worse than it being buck wild all the time was that sometimes my mom was the best mom in the world. Right. My mom taught me how to hit a backhand in tennis. My mom was like the biggest educational champion, but she was unpredictably violent. Just dysregulated. All of the above. That was the big motivator for me to say to see the data on ACEs and was just like, these are my patients. I'm gonna scour the science to figure out what these interventions are. Right. And the ironic thing about it is that the more research I did and the more I put into practice for my patients, the more I was like, huh, I might try that at home. Right. And so for myself, right. As I started putting in some of these self regulation practices. Got it right. We know things like mindfulness meditation, regular exercise, spending time in nature. All of these things kind of reduce the activity of our fight or flight response, right? That's our biological stress response and increase the activity of our parasympathetic nervous system that is like, counteracts the fight or flight. It's resting and digesting. So. So I start doing all this stuff, right? It's great. And I think for. For, for most people and for most of your listeners who are out there, you do this. And it's. And it's just. What that's doing is it's stacking stuff on the other side of the teeter totter, right? You're building self regulation into your own life. I start every day with a meditation and journaling literally every day.

[A]

What does it do for you? Oh,

[B]

So for me, it helps me start the day from a place of calm and regulation, and it helps me remember what that place felt feels like. So that when I start to move away from it, I notice it, right? Because one of the things that happens when we kind of have this stress response that's going all the time is that for most of us, we don't even notice it.

[A]

Well, I think that's the thing about your work that is so profound because it's not like you're some slouch. I mean, you're like going to the best schools in the world and you have all these degrees and you're opening this clinic and we think we can outwork or we can out degree or we can somehow run away from this.

[B]

Out earn.

[A]

Out earn.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And what I found is that there was nothing that I did that involved running away from it, that made it disappear.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And I'm happy that you just shared that. Because if you are listening right now and you think you've kind of outrun a lot of this stuff, but you've never fully thought, huh, maybe it would feel good to not have my stress response on all the time. Maybe it would feel good to not have the response of every headline or every email send me through the roof, that I maybe should try some of these buffering things. Because what you're doing, as I really listened to it in the context of your adverse childhood experiences since your mom was incapable due to her mental illness of providing that calm, safe routine start to the morning, you now as an adult woman are providing it for yourself, Correct?

[B]

So I start with these self regulating practices of, you know, mindfulness, journaling, go for a walk, do my workout. And then we also know that for some of us, for some of us that's enough. That's fantastic. For some of us, we also need therapy, right? So we add things on top of that. Myself personally, I've used emdr.

[A]

It's the best. Will you explain for the person listening what that is? Because it is a game changer.

[B]

What EMDR is, is it's called eye movement desensitization and reprogramming. And essentially someone who's trained an EMDR therapist will help someone be able to go back to a past memory. And then using a process of bilateral stimulation. So some people do tapping, some people use like a thera tapper, which is what I use, and you have alternative bilateral stimulation. The brain actually processes that experience differently when you're having this bilateral stimulation. And then as part of the process, one of the really important things is having a corrective experience, right? So when you go back and you have the memory, then you identify what should have happened. And in my corrective experience when I, when I went back, there's this moment when, you know, little me from my childhood is sitting there and terrified. An adult me comes in and just sits down on the bed and says, I'm here. And that for me, when I think about all of the research, all of the science about buffering trauma, informed care, regulating the stress response, all of that, essentially all of that can be summed up in this I'm here effect, right? It is a regulated presence. Who says I'm here? And that can be adult you showing up for little you who didn't get

[A]

it, and adult you showing up for adult you right now.

[B]

Correct? So for me, I'm here on a daily basis means starting my day with these regulating practices. Mindfulness, journaling, exercise, time in nature. And that's how I do. I'm here for myself.

[A]

And honestly, as I'm listening to you, so many people that I care about are coming to mind. People that I think now that I understand this, I can see how they're probably stuck in patterns from their childhood and they don't even realize it. The good news is there's something you can do about it. Dr. Burke Harris is providing a free resource that will empower somebody to break free from these patterns. So thank you for taking a moment to share this in your family group chat. Share this with your siblings. Share this with people that you know have more potential, but keep getting in their own way. And don't go anywhere, because when we return, we're gonna continue to dig into the tools that help you heal. Stay with me. Imagine never buying gas again. Imagine a car that's as easy to charge as your phone. With electric vehicles, you don't have to imagine these things. They're perfect for real life and real savings. EVs have fewer parts, fewer repairs, and are less expensive to drive. Plus, you can ghost the gas station and save up to $2,000 a year by not having to buy gas. Electric vehicles have a daily range that allows you to drive with confidence wherever you want to go. And charging is easy. Just plug in overnight at your home, like your phone, or use a fast charger and get back on the road in as little as 20 minutes. With 100 plus new and used EV models available today, there's an EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. The way forward is electric. Learn [e-mail] this Mother's Day Celebrate the mother figures in your life with Pandora jewelry. Not just for what they do, but for who they are. The ones who show up, hold everything together, and somehow make everything feel possible. Pandora jewelry makes it easy to choose something that reflects your relationship and the moments you've shared together. And you can make your gift even more meaningful by adding an engraving in your own handwriting. A Date, name, message, or something unique to you. Because the best Mother's Day gift doesn't just say I love you, it says, I see you. Find the perfect Mother's Day gift at your local Pandora store or [e-mail]. this message is brought to you online by Apple Card. Spring always feels like a reset, clearing things out, simplifying what you don't need. Apple Card is built with that same idea in mind. No annual fee, no late fees, and no foreign transaction fees. No fees, period. Get started and apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 17.49% to 27.74% based on creditworthiness rates as of January 1, 2026. Existing customers can view their variable APR in the Wallet app [e-mail] Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com. Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel. And today you and I are learning from the extraordinary Dr. Burke Harris, who is teaching us all about how childhood trauma has shaped you as an adult and keeps you stuck in frustrating patterns. She's teaching you and me and the people that we love how to stop holding ourselves back and start creating the life that we deserve as an adult at a biological and neurological level. So Dr. Burke Harris, talk to the person who right now is kind of going, Cause I think the person listening right now, I can almost hear you being like, oh my God, like I have so much I need buffering. I have an overactive stress response. I gotta do something. Like, where do you want the person who's now having this epiphany? This is me. This is me. This is me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where do you start?

[B]

Okay, is this. Yeah, girl, I see you. Okay. But I think so. Number one, I want to say that it starts really simple. So what does I'm here look like in your own life? Showing up for yourself? Whether that means taking a walk every day for 20 minutes or starting with some mindfulness or, you know, getting out in nature. Right. These are some of the basic self regulation practices that anyone can do. And there's, there are actually seven evidence based interventions to help buffer the biological stress response that I include that I actually wrote about in the, in the Surgeon general's report. And these include sleep, exercise, nutrition, mindfulness, mental health, and healthy relationships and time in nature. So these are the seven evidence based interventions that help to regulate the biological stress response. So that's, I would say, step one and then Mel, I Would say step two is really connecting and intentionally building for yourself. Right. These safe and stable relationships. That is key. We all know we all have the one girlfriend we talk to when we're about to say something that sounds crazy and we know that she's not gonna overreact or the. The brother. Right. Who was there, drew in all the madness and can validate our experience and. And just be present. Right. So really identifying who are the people in our lives. And it's sometimes it's one person and one person is enough. Right. That's the good news. One person is enough. But oftentimes it's more than one person that we can talk to be authentically vulnerable and feel safe. And sometimes it means that we're going to need more. So we may need to reach out to a therapist or we may want to try trauma focused cognitive behavioral therapy or internal family systems therapy or emdr. But any of these. That these different interventions can also help us to establish internal safety and regulate ourselves. And then finally, for some people, medication is helpful. Right. And so that's the other thing. We can talk to your doctor.

[A]

I love that you said the first step is starting with yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the reason why I love that is I can think back and it's more recent than I care to admit to. Me having an overactive stress response. Me not having started EMDR yet. Me still like, I'm the kind of person that when I get emotionally, like, triggered by something, the stress response is like a volcano. And I can think of moments with my husband, like I would walk in the door, pressure, like, got a great amount of evidence for why I deserve to be stressed. And this is very. And like barking at everybody. And then the poor man just shuts down.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so how could I possibly buffer him as he's going through his stuff if I can't even buffer myself?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I also feel like it's a really important thing if you have challenging people in your life. Cause I do think almost every one of us has somebody that has an overactive stress response and isn't shutting down. They're the ones yelling at you. They're the ones who are unpredictable. And you're not going to be able to deal with them if you don't start to buffering and creating safety for yourself and being the. I am here in your words, for yourself as a way to feel safe even around somebody chaotic. I hate admitting that I was the chaotic person. I hate admitting that I was the asshole. I hate admitting that.

[B]

Oh my gosh, I Love that you're admitting that. You want to know why? Because I feel like for a lot of people the biggest obstacle to being able to address a dysregulated stress response is even acknowledging. Right. People say, oh yeah, I had these difficult experiences, but it didn't affect me because look, I've got a great job, I'm making good money, I have this nice house and I even have a great spouse. Right. And so it didn't affect me. And you're like, is that why you

[A]

drink a bottle of wine every night after work?

[B]

Right, right, right. And so that first step of being able to say, and let me just tell you something, that piece is a part of saying I'm here for yourself is to be able to see, gosh, I did just kind of react all heavy handed there, didn't I? That's not the mom I want to be. That's not the partner I want to be. That's not the self I want to be. Right. Or wow, I did feel really dysregulated because one of the things that happens when we experience trauma and adversity is that we become the ones who can't see ourselves. Right. And so that piece of it being able to say, yeah, I felt really overwhelmed and I responded in a way that I wasn't proud of. So the next thing that you do for yourself and it just depends on how, how much it's affecting you. Right? So it can be making a plan with your partner. Right. About. So it's. How do you get that buffering for. How do you set up an infrastructure of buffering for yourself? Right. Like, oh, I know that when a certain thing happens. So, you know, many of us have these like code words or a hand squeeze or a. Something.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

To be able to, to be able to help us regulate and get out of the situation. But honestly, it sounds like that's a really good time to maybe explore it with a therapist and understand what that trigger is for you and then understand what is that corrective experience. Right. Because one of the pieces that we understand is that these corrective experiences can then help to rewire our stress responses. So maybe it's that I actually didn't feel safe holding a boundary. That. And so maybe I gotta say to, you know, my mother in law, actually, you know what, we're not coming for Thanksgiving this year. I know that it's very upsetting for you, but this is what our family's choice is. Right? So really understanding how do you show up for yourself in those moments in a way that creates a corrective experience for you.

[A]

One of the other things about your work, Dr. Burke Harris, that I think is important for you to explain because you're very clear about the fact that willpower, motivation, and mindset often fail when you have an overactive nervous system. So could you, as a doctor, just kind of explain if you're dealing with this issue of motivation? You can't get your resume done. You can't seem to do the get up and go. You're in that loop of thinking about what you need to do, but you can't quite get the juice to do it. What is going on when that's happening that relates to this overactive stress response?

[B]

Yeah. So the analogy that I like to give is the way that our stress response works is that you could imagine if you're walking in the forest and you see a bear, right? Like what happens in our brains and bodies. Right. Well, the first thing is our amygdala, right. Which is our brain's alarm system, sounds the alarm and tell our brain and body to release stress hormones. So we release adrenaline and cortisol. So our hearts start to pound, our pupils dilate, our airways open up. We shunt blood to our big muscles for running and jumping and away from that itty bitty muscle that holds your bladder closed so you may pee your pants, but no judgment. Right. And so you're ready to either fight the bear or run from the bear.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But if you were to think about it, fighting a bear would not seem like a good idea, would it? No. And that's why the amygdala actually sends neurons. It sends projections to the prefrontal cortex. That's the part of the brain that sits right here behind the forehead.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And this is the part that's responsible for judgment, impulse control, executive functioning, and it turns it way down. Because the last thing you want, if you're in a forest and there's a bear, is some impulse control getting in the way of survival.

[A]

Right. Because if you were to make a rash, stupid decision to then go try to fight a bear, you would be dead.

[B]

Right? Exactly.

[A]

And I take it when you're a little kid, if you're in a situation where you're under threat that the same mechanism is happening, which is why a lot of us freeze or hide or run or do something different than put up the dukes and go after dad.

[B]

That's exactly right. Now, that is what we call the fight or flight response. Or. You're absolutely right. The other thing that can happen is that you can freeze. So there's a fight, flight or freeze. And then the other thing that happens, and especially it's more common with women, is that you can fawn. It's the affiliative response.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

So that means is that you become compliant. You people, please. For your own safety.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right, yeah.

[A]

All of these are driven by safety.

[B]

All of them are driven by safety.

[A]

Because in that moment when it's the bear or it's dad or it's systemic racism or it's bullying at school, no one's there.

[B]

Right, right. And so you're having to figure out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

How to survive.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This situation. And so this is the ways in which our stress response become wired for survival.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Right. For the folks who really just can't get themselves organized or. Or are procrastinating, even though that is when we see that that prefrontal cortex is really just having a really hard time engaging. Right. Because the amygdala is on overdrive and that's actually biologically what happens. And that's why buffering is so important.

[A]

This is so important because if you're trying to power through your own biology, you probably are always gonna exhaust yourself and not win. But if you recognize that your biology is like, subconsciously so quickly causing you to either freeze or whatever, the buffering allows you to down regulate your stress so you can re engage the part of your brain that helps you. Is that right?

[B]

No, it's even. I'm gonna say it's even worse than that in my experience.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So if you are trying to power through and you're struggling to do it because of your biology, but you don't know.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You're gonna say, why can't I do it? Look at that guy over there. He can do it, but I can't do it. I suck. Right. And that's where the shame layer comes in. Right. And what does shame do? Shame doesn't only increase our stress, but it also isolates us. So it makes us less likely to connect to the thing that we actually need to be successful. Right. And that's why understanding the biology is so powerful, because it takes out what you're like, oh, oh, this is just my overactive stress response. Right. And this is how it shows up for me. That's a sign that what I need right now is buffering, connection support. It means that I need to do these self regulation practices. I need to do some mindfulness, some journaling, go for a walk, go for a workout, and I need to be able to get support from someone who I feel safe with.

[A]

Dr. Burke Harris. This is so awesome because you're explaining how the biology is keeping you stuck without even you realizing it. But you offer a very hopeful message because the same biology that puts you in an overactive stress response that over time compounds into these things that we experience as an adult, whether it's autoimmune disorder, chronic procrastination, the shame cycles that you get yourself caught in because you see other people. Why can't I do it? What the hell's wrong with me? But your message is hopeful because you say that the same biology that basically became overactive can adapt.

[B]

Can adapt. Right. And one of the most important things for that adaptation is corrective experiences.

[A]

Okay, so what does that mean?

[B]

So this is something that I learned from very smart researchers. One of them, Dr. Frank Anderson, is a psychologist who focuses on internal family systems. But we see this also with other trauma therapies like emdr. And essentially what it says is whatever it is that you learned. Right. I learned that if I asked for help, no one would come to my aid. Then the corrective experience is asking for help and actually getting it. And then your body and your brain and your nervous system can learn that.

[A]

How do you do that if even the idea of asking for help sends your nervous system into an overactive state?

[B]

Right, right. So for someone who's really struggling, I really recommend getting support. Yeah, right. Getting support, whether. Whether that is from a licensed professional. Right. Or even in the context of talking with a great girlfriend who you really trust and say, you know what? I'm telling myself this story that if I ask for what I need, I'm not going to get it. Yeah, right. Sometimes that support is with pharmacotherapy. Right. So sometimes we need a little something to help us be able to balance and regulate our stress response so that then we can learn. Right. Like our biology can learn. Oh, wait, there's a different outcome here.

[A]

If the person listening starts to use these tools and you start to provide the buffering for yourself, I am here. What are some of the small little glimmers that you might notice that are signs that this is working?

[B]

Honestly, some of the things that I've noticed in my own life and in my own relationships is that we can be less reactive. Right. And more responsive. What I've seen in my clinical practice is that when we add this buffering to whatever the standard treatment is, whether it's ADHD or a child's not growing or whatever, then we see clinical improvement. Right. So Whether it's, you know, headache or abdominal pain, just when we add that layer of buffering, we're able to regulate the stress response. We see the impacts both behaviorally in terms of how we show up, both for ourselves and in our relationships, and then we also can see the difference in our health.

[A]

That makes sense to me because I know in my own experience that there are still things almost daily that trigger me. It knocks me off my balance for a moment, and then I can take a deep breath because I've been practicing the buffering skills without really truly understanding it as a complete way to be there for yourself and to heal yourself. Your response time is so I don't snap at my kids anymore. I'm faster to apologize. I'm more patient. I'm way more compassion with annoying people in my life, and I can just exhale and be there for myself. And it's shocking how much things change, you know, can you speak to the person that's been listening who is realizing that somebody that they love has a lot of adverse childhood experiences, and they can see that this person that they love is in an overactive stress response? What is one thing that you want them to know that they could do to support this person in their life other than sending them this episode?

[B]

One of the most important things, in addition to being there for ourselves. Right. So being a regulated presence. So regulating ourselves can also be just being a witness to their experience. Right. And being able to. To recognize and say, wow, I can see that. That how that impacted you.

[A]

And then

[B]

letting them know that we love them. Right. And that healing is possible.

[A]

I love that. I love that. Dr. Burke Harris, if the person listening takes just one action, based on all of the wisdom and love and buffering that you've poured into us by being here today with us, what do you think the most important thing to do is?

[B]

I think the thing that enables all of this is really having the courage to look and say, do I have some aces? Right? And is that showing up in my life right now? And then go from there and say, okay, well, if that's the case, what does that mean about how I show up for myself? What kind of supports do I need so that I can be well supported? Right. And then so that I can show up for the people in my life.

[A]

Dr. Burke Harris, what are your parting words?

[B]

Well, because I am a super public health nerd, I will say I believe infrastructure is love in action. What we build, the systems that we build in our personal lives for ourselves, whether it is connecting to A strong group of friends who we feel safe with. Right. But building it ahead of time and not waiting for the wheels to fall off the cart, that would be like one of the most important things.

[A]

Well, Dr. Burke Harris, thank you, thank you, thank you. You are a global. I am so appreciative of the time that you took to come here and to teach everything and share everything that you did with us. And I cannot wait to see how this one conversation creates a positive wave of change in people's lives around the world.

[B]

Mel, it has been my pleasure, my joy. Thank you so much.

[A]

And I also wanna thank you, thank you for making the time and spending time listening to something that not only might have rocked your world, but I hope it opened your eyes and it opened your heart to a completely different possibility. And I love the fact that Dr. Burke Harris gave us a research backed playbook that you can follow so that you can start to do the healing that you deserve. So that you can start to buffer yourself now, so that you can use this I am here method to start with yourself. And there's no doubt in my mind, I believe her, that it begins with the systems you put in place for yourself, for your family, for community. And from there, by taking care of yourself, I think we actually take care of improving the world. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to. To create a better life. And one way that I can prove that is you took the time to listen to this. And if you follow what Dr. Burke Harris said, you will create a better life. Alrighty. I will see you in the very next episode. I'm going to welcome you in the moment you hit play. Okay, Bri Trace, we ready. Awesome. We got a big thumbs up. Brian, I love the shirt today. You know, I love it when you're wearing your crazy shirts. Tell your wife.

[B]

Okay, this is why I came here. And I'm like, we're the same person. Yes, we're the. I. I'm gonna tell you know how you end your thing and you're just like, if somebody else doesn't say it, I love you. I'm gonna tell you right now, I love you. I was journaling this morning because I start every day with journaling and I was just like, oh, I'm kind of nervous, you know, going on Mel's podcast. But I'm like, this will be successful if Mel is my friend.

[A]

At the end of this, there you go. This is successful already.

[B]

It's already successful.

[A]

Yes. Just because you showed up.

[B]

Oh, my God, you're so awesome.

[A]

You're so awesome. Did you get everything perfect?

[B]

Yay.

[A]

You did dynamite.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Thank you.

[A]

So proud of you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

It's going to help so many people.

[B]

That was so fun. You really. You really make it fun.

[A]

Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

[B]

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