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If You Only Listen to One Podcast Today, Make It This One - The Mel Robbins Podcast | Wave AI Podcast Notes

If You Only Listen to One Podcast Today, Make It This One

Mon Sep 01 2025

This episode is a MUST listen. Mel calls it “the single best conversation” she has ever recorded. If you’ve ever felt behind, stuck, or doubting yourself, you need to hit play. This is the most motivational, eye-opening episode that you will ever hear, and it will give you the roadmap to become the person you’ve always wanted to be. Today, Mel is joined by Emma Grede. Emma is one of the most successful self-made businesswomen in the world and the force behind three billion-dollar brands: SKIMS, Good American, and Safely. But this is not a conversation about business. It’s about creating an extraordinary life, even if you’re starting from nothing. Emma was raised in East London by a single mom. She’s dyslexic and did poorly in school. She dropped out of college in her first year because she couldn’t afford tuition. But that was just the start of her story. She proves that anything is possible when you refuse to quit. Today, she has built 3 billion-dollar companies, b...

Summary

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Episode: "If You Only Listen to One Podcast Today, Make It This One"

Date: September 1, 2025
Host: Mel Robbins
Guest: Emma Grede (Co-founder/CEO, Good American, SKIMS, Safely)

Overview

In this electrifying and deeply motivational episode, Mel Robbins sits down with Emma Grede—self-made billionaire, fashion industry powerhouse, Shark Tank judge, and inspiring advocate for representation. The conversation dives far beyond business, revealing Emma’s personal blueprint for dreaming big and achieving against all odds, starting from her tough upbringing in East London to the helm of globally influential brands.

Listeners are guided through Emma’s actionable philosophies on responsibility, mindset, resilience, and the power of authenticity. This episode is a powerhouse of storytelling, practical advice, and a rallying call for anyone ready to change their life—regardless of where they’re starting.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Responsibility and Mind Management

[05:18] Emma Grede:

Success begins with taking responsibility for yourself and carefully managing your thoughts.
Living with purpose is a daily practice, not a one-off choice.
“I think about my life and more specifically my career as a bit of a blueprint for what happens when you a, take responsibility for yourself and when you really manage your thoughts carefully.” (Emma, 05:18)

2. Emma’s Early Life: From East London to Dreaming Big

[06:46] Emma Grede:

Raised as the eldest of four girls by a single mom in East London, Emma learned responsibility early, often parenting her siblings.
Living in an unsafe neighborhood meant being hyper-vigilant; dreaming big was fueled by knowing she wanted more for herself.
“I knew I would in a way. I just felt like I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know how this is going to work, but I've got to get out of here.” (Emma, 08:07)

3. Keeping Your Roots and Grit

[09:19] Emma Grede:

You don’t leave behind who you are just because you leave your physical origins. Your roots, values, and grit go with you.
Hard work, not just vision, is non-negotiable.
“You are not going to manifest your way out of anything. You have to … couple it with … really, really hard work.” (Emma, 10:43)

4. Transforming Anger and the Blame Game

[13:08] Emma Grede:

Emma openly discusses her struggles with anger and blaming others—a common mindset where she grew up—until she learned that taking ownership was the path forward.
Therapy and self-reflection helped shift her perspective:
- “At 19… I was like, nobody owes you nothing, that things started to fall into place for me.” (Emma, 14:12)
Learn to ask: is holding on to anger serving me? If not, let it go.

5. Identifying and Pursuing Your “Thing”

[18:08] Emma Grede:

It’s vital to have something to care about—an interest, a goal, or even self-improvement, especially if you don’t know your greater purpose yet.
Emma’s love for fashion was both a dream and a lifeline out of her circumstances.
“If you cannot figure out what that is, if you don't know what you should pursue, you should pursue yourself.” (Emma, 18:08)

6. Excellence vs. Perfectionism

[20:53] - [31:23]

Excellence is internal and about your own standards; perfectionism is external and based on others’ perceptions.
- “How you do anything is how you do everything.” (Emma, 21:41)
Even “crappy” or mundane jobs are opportunities to practice excellence and build character.
Perfectionism traps women in particular—Emma urges focusing on self-compassion and honest self-assessment.

7. The Power of Just Getting Started

[33:01] - [34:08]

Progress comes from action, not planning:
- “Everything you want is on the other side of what you're working towards. You just gotta be working.”
If you don’t know the right direction, go anyway—learning happens on the way.
Treat yourself as you’d treat a friend: with kindness after mistakes.

8. The “Rule of Thirds”: Coping with the Ups and Downs

[34:47] Emma Grede:

“If you are doing something difficult … a third of the time you are going to be happy, a third you are going to be okay, a third you are going to feel terrible.”
Accepting this mix is key to long-term perseverance.

9. Embracing the Long Game

[40:19] - [41:36]

Success is rarely overnight. Most “overnight” successes have long chapters of struggle and “crappy” jobs behind them.
- “I've only really enjoyed what I'm doing for the last five years.” (Emma, 41:35)

10. The Evolution to Entrepreneurship and Brand Creation

[60:38] - [68:27]

Emma’s career in agencies put her at the intersection of brands, celebrity, and fashion. Understanding both the business and the “white space” (market gaps) was foundational to creating Good American.
She highlighted the importance of relentless preparation, research, and being “obsessed” with the category before pitching.
“I had done my homework. I knew the difference between me and everybody else. I had obsessed the price point.” (Emma, 65:17)

11. Learning from Disaster and Leading with Responsibility

[68:34] - [73:43]

Even a “perfect” launch (Good American sold out day one) can reveal how little you know—Emma had to deal with inventory issues and disappointed customers.
Her instinct: handle problems with transparency and personal outreach.

12. Building True Networks and Taking Initiative

[45:32] - [50:55]

The right relationships are often not who you expect; your “network” is built through doing, not by networking events.
“Stop looking at what you don't have and look at what you do. And make that the network.” (Emma, 49:49)

13. The Art of the Pitch & Storytelling

[76:52] - [79:41]

The best pitches tell a compelling story and demonstrate deep, lived-in knowledge of the space.
Practice is essential: “I can't tell you how many times I sat down in a mirror and spoke about Good American before I met Pete Nordstrom. Like maybe 50 times.” (Emma, 77:17)

14. Should You Be an Entrepreneur? Brutal Honesty

[80:23] - [82:55]

“Not everybody should start a business.”
Be honest: Are you risk-tolerant? Are you committed for a decade? Corporate careers can be entrepreneurial and fulfilling too.

15. Skills for the Future: Get Obsessed & Embrace AI

[83:41] Emma Grede:

Disruption is coming fast; women especially can’t afford to miss the AI (Artificial Intelligence) boom.
“Whatever it is that you do ... figure out the way you can utilize AI tools and start learning them ... That's the future.” (Emma, 83:41)
Embrace progress and learn to leverage new technology in your field.

16. Final Takeaways: Get Out of Your Head and Start

[86:53] Emma Grede:

The most crucial move is to take the idea out of your head and do something:
- “The idea that made it off of my desktop. That's it. And if I can do it, anyone can do it now. Anyone.” (Emma, 87:44)
Your dream requires action, not perfection.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On mindset:
“When you bring those two things together, it allows you to be really, really purposeful and the outcome starts to just manifest.” (Emma, 05:56)
On self-belief and starting from nothing: “You don't have to give up who you are and what made you, you. If you leave that physical space, you can still be and have that heart of gold and that sense of scrappiness.” (Emma, 09:19)
On persistence: “I didn't take it personally. I thought they didn't get the letter because I'm so good and I have so much to offer ... They just must not know yet.” (Emma, 27:14)
On comparison and perfection:
“Perfectionism is when you are focused on the outside. ... Excellence is on the inside because excellence is about the effort in ...” (Mel, 31:23)
On resilience:
“If what you've got is keeping you stuck, leave it. Like, walk away.” (Emma, 15:31)
On navigating early career: “Be excellent at where you're at, at whatever you're doing, because that has some kind of invisible magnetic pull.” (Emma, 22:11)
On the long game: “People tend to overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what can actually happen in a decade.” (Emma, 36:48)
On embracing imperfection:
“Everything you want is there. It's just gotta find you working, and that's it. ... You gotta do. And that's where this perfectionist trap is poisonous for us.” (Emma, 33:01)
On self-compassion: “You gotta be real careful that your biggest enemy isn't living between your two ears.” (Emma, 31:23)
On starting a business: “Not everybody should start a business, right? ... We’ve romanticized this idea of what it means to be a founder.” (Emma, 80:23)
On innovation and AI: “We must not miss out on this AI boom. If you ain't using it, use it now.” (Emma, 83:41)

Timestamps for Key Segments

[05:18] – Emma on the importance of responsibility and thought management
[13:08] – The role of anger and blame in her upbringing and personal growth
[20:53] – Excellence vs. Perfectionism; actionable definition
[31:23] – Self-compassion as part of excellence
[34:47] – The Rule of Thirds for emotional resilience
[41:35] – The reality: “I’ve only really enjoyed what I’m doing for the last five years.”
[50:55] – On building a network through action
[60:38] – How Good American was born: finding “white space” in the market
[76:52] – The craft of pitching, storytelling, and preparation
[80:23] – Who should and shouldn’t start a business
[83:41] – Future skills: get obsessed, get tech-savvy, especially with AI
[87:44] – The final charge: “If I can do it, anyone can do it now. Anyone.”

Emma Grede’s Success Blueprint — Condensed

Take total responsibility for your life.
Curate your internal dialogue—choose empowering thoughts.
Act with excellence, no matter the job.
Do—don’t just plan, talk, or dream.
Accept and learn from setbacks. Move anyway.
Work harder than anyone else—and take nothing personally.
Build authentic networks through what you do, not who you know.
Tell your story compellingly and know your space inside out.
Be honest about your temperament: entrepreneurship isn’t for everyone—corporate careers can be just as fulfilling.
Lean into skills for the future—especially harnessing AI.
Share your ambition, take your shot—and keep moving forward.

Final Words from Emma [87:49]

“I dreamt of being who I am now. But I just didn’t let the dream stay a dream. Right? ... Eventually your time will come. That’s it. You have to know that about yourself.”

Listeners’ Action Steps

Get out of your own head, take one concrete step today.
Practice excellence in whatever task, big or small, is in front of you.
Embrace the long journey, keep moving through setbacks.
Don’t wait—use the tools and connections you have right now.
Take the dream off your desktop and out into the world.

This is the podcast episode to send to anyone who needs a jolt of courage, clarity, and the unvarnished truth about what it takes to build a life you’re proud of.

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Transcript

Mel Robbins (0:00)

Hey, it's your friend Mel. And welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm just going to start the show by saying this is one of the single best episodes we have ever recorded. You are in for something extraordinary. This is not only one of my favorite conversations that I've ever had, but there is no question your life will never be the same again once you listen to it. Today I am joined by one of the most successful self made women in the world in business today. Emma greed is the CEO and co founder of $3 billion brands, Good American Skims and Safely. But this is not a business conversation. This is a conversation about getting everything that you want out of life from a woman who fought her way to the top. And this is hands down one of the most inspiring, motivating, energizing conversations that I have ever had in my entire life. I cannot wait for you to experience this, and I don't say that lightly. Today you're getting the blueprint on how to live an extraordinary life. And I'm going to say right up front that even if you feel like you are starting with nothing, this conversation is going to make you realize you can still create something extraordinary. Now, Emma grew up in East London to a single mother. She struggled through school. At the age of 17, she dropped out of college because she couldn't pay for it. This is a story of how she went from there to becoming the co founder of $3 billion companies. You are going to be blown away by her magnetism, her relatability, her passion and the truth bombs she is about to drop over and over and over again. She has hopped on a plane and flown across the country to be here for you, to tell you step by step exactly how to dream bigger, how to create the future you want, and how to start where you are and build something that makes you proud. Emma's remarkable story is proof that there is no limit to what you can create. And she is going to show you exactly what it takes to bet on yourself. Especially when the people around you are doubting you. What you're about to learn is going to help you turn your dreams into reality. And I just can't wait for you to hear this. Hey, it's your friend Mel. And welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. It is always an honor to be together and to spend time with you. But today in particular, I am so excited that you're here because here's what I know. You're the kind of person who who aspires to something bigger. You wanna create a life that makes you proud? Oh my God. Are you in the right place? You're about to experience one of the most extraordinary conversations I've ever had in my entire life. And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you, first of all, this episode's a gift. So really happy somebody shared this with you. I also wanna personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family because you picked an extraordinary place to start by listening to this. This is one of my favorite episodes that I have ever taped, period. Today I am joined by one of the most successful self made women in business today, Emma Green. Emma was just named one of America's richest self made women by Forbes. She is the CEO and co founder of $3 billion Brands Good American, which was the first fully inclusive fashion brand, SKIMS, the $4 billion global shapewear brand and Safely, a line of high quality plant based cleaning products. She's also a venture investor, a judge on Shark Tank, a mother of four, the chair of the 15% pledge, which is a nonprofit that encourages retailers to pledge at least 15% of their shelf space to black owned businesses. And now she is unpacking and sharing all of her incredible advice and lessons about business and career and goals on her new podcast, Aspire with Emma Reed. I am so extraordinarily excited to welcome her to the Mel Robbins Podcast and to be able to share this conversation with you. So please help me welcome Emma Greed to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

Emma Grede (47:39)

Yeah. I mean, the first thing, Mel, is you gotta get out of your own head. Cause I speak to a lot of people. I've been trying this thing and I've been like, thinking about this for a long time. It's like, what did you do? Like, what did you do? Did you call the store? You want to sell your thing in the store? Do you call them or do you just hoping for somebody to notice you? Did you, like, you want to be an artist? Like, are you making art? Are you putting your work out there? Again, nobody is looking for you. No one. So you again, have to take responsibility and start. Like, get out of the starting blocks and go and do something. And again, it comes down to this idea of fearing what is on the other side. Fear of rejection, fear of being told, no, fear that it won't work. So you gotta get past that point and know that that's all there. And that may well happen, but that's okay too. And I honestly think that the big, the. The big block that people have is getting started, feeling so vulnerable that they can't even start. You can't write a business plan and then file that business plan and then go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start this business because I've got a plan. It's like, what's in the plan? You've gotta go, you gotta get the thing made. You have to write the email, you have to ask the question. And you cannot network your way into starting. That doesn't work. People right now always say to me, you know, I wish I was invited to this networking event. It's like, that's not the thing. A network is a tool, a way of getting things done. The things that make the difference between starting and not starting is never really what you think. It's never the people that you think. When I look at my business and my life and think, who are the people that have made the biggest differences? I go back, it's like, I didn't know anyone that was going to give me money to start a business. I went to my clients, to people that I worked with, and explained, like, I am going to start this thing and I'm going to need some capital to do it. When I needed advice and a mentor, I didn't know anyone who, like, had a business in East London. Like, not a legit or legal one anyway. You know, it's like, okay, guys, like, that's not the type of business advice I need. So again, I went to clients, and at the end of pitching the marketing campaign, I was there. I would just ask a couple of questions, like, you've got to take your chance, shoot your shot. Don't walk around looking for a mentor. Walk around asking questions. That's what you have to do. And you have to realize that your network will never be what you think it is. It will be the factory, the vendors, your bank relationship, your lawyer. Like that is your network. So work with whatever you've got. Stop looking at what you don't have and look at what you. And make that the network. But you have to start. You gotta start somewhere. Yeah.

Emma Grede (52:28)

So the first thing to say is, I always had a job. From 12, I've had a job. I delivered the papers, I did the babysitting. It's like I worked in the deli. I worked in a million different clothes shops. It's like I've been working forever and ever and ever. And so it's like I drop out of college and I landed in this strange year of just work placement. So I just went from place to place to place, essentially figuring out what I didn't want to do, but getting closer to the Idea of, like, what is the fashion business? How does it work? I landed in a fashion show production company. Sounds glamorous. Absolutely was not. You're building the catwalk shows, so, you know, a designer has this, like, grand idea of what it is that they want to do, and you have to build it. The show goes up, but you spend three months planning it. The show goes up and down in 10 minutes. You don't see it because you're backstage. Everybody goes off to a party that you're not invited to, and then you have to de rig and pack the thing down. That was my life for five years. But in that I met everybody, I understood what the business of fashion was, why we were putting on the shows, and I knew everybody. And so I essentially took the. What I had created there, which was just my reputation as being someone who understood fashion and loved fashion. And I started doing deals for fashion designers with brands. So everybody had this grand idea of what show they wanted to put on, but no budget because they weren't really making sales. And so I would do brand partnerships between designers and brands. And I created an agency. Eventually, after, like, you know, one deal here, one deal there, a little commission there, a little commission there, I became, like, the girl that did this in London. And I started an agency when I was 24. The agency I was in for 10 years, I grew it. I had an office in London, an office in New York, an office in la. Close. The office in la. Grew, grew, grew. And I essentially built this agency group that started acquiring rights, licensing rights, and brand rights. We did product placement in movies. We put celebrities into campaigns.

Emma Grede (60:38)

Well, you know, I think the important thing for people to understand is that I had spent 10 years building my career at the intersection of brands and fashion. And so I had a fantastic understanding of what works in fashion and where the white space was. I really understood what was missing. What do you mean? So when I talk about white space, it's where the opportunity is. What wasn't out there. Where was there a problem that I could find a solution for? And Good American was a solution. It was that, you know, most women are massively underserved by the fashion industry. 68% of women in America are above a size 16. And yet when you go into a mall, there's maybe two or three shops out of the hundreds of stores that will actually cater to that size. Now we're going back 10 years ago, right, when I first had this idea. So the landscape has shifted a bit, largely because Good American has impacted it. But back then there were very, very few options. And all the options, quite honestly, were bad, horrible. They were ugly. And I had come from a place, you know, in East London. All my family, I are big, curvy women and they have confidence and they feel good about themselves. And especially, you know, you think about black culture, it's like the bigger the but the better. And so we were very much. My idea of beauty was much, much broader than what was being shown in the media. And so I had this idea and I just decided, I was like, I'm going to do this. I have spent the last 10 years building value for all of my clients and I was very well remunerated and I had a fantastic business and I managed to sell that first business. But I wanted to do something that was for myself, that I owned and that I could feel very proud of and start a brand instead of helping all of these other brands. And so what happened is I had seen how celebrity endorsement can really accelerate a brand, because 10 years working on all of those campaigns, you know, Natalie Portman for Dior or putting people in l' Oreal commercials or whatever it was I was doing, I understood how that worked. I understood that talent was a key to unlocking an audience. And so I was like, great, I'm going to start this brand. I'm going to fill the white space, do something that isn't out there, and I'm going to couple it with the talent to make it explode. And so I pitched Chris and Chloe now feels like a legendary meeting. At the time, honestly, it didn't feel like a legendary meeting to me. At the time, I really knew that I had something special. And I had spent a long time figuring out why this was going to be so successful. And, you know, if I go back eight years now, Good American was a complete trailblazer. There was nothing like it. There was a reason that we did a million dollars on day one. And it wasn't because people were like, oh, you know, this sounds like a good idea. It's because they could feel the difference. They understood that we saw them. They felt seen, they felt heard, and they felt represented. And it was a magical moment in my career because it was an idea that I'd come up with. It was an idea that didn't exist, that I'd started from scratch, and it was resonating, it was working. And then I realized I know nothing. I know nothing about running an apparel company. All of my agency experience and opening offices all over the world meant nothing because I was in the garmento business, and I was not a garmento. I knew nothing about making clothes. And so it was like, you know, I had this on the outside, this huge success that was getting so much press and so much attention and growing on social, and yet I had no idea how to run that business.

Emma Grede (65:17)

So you have to imagine that for the 10 years previously, I had been in practice, right? I'd pitched the world's biggest CMOs. I'd put the biggest celebrities in the world in the biggest campaigns in the world. I had been on set with the most famous men and women on the planet, and I had won awards in my agency. I was a trailblazer in that business of celebrity, fashion, entertainment. My agency was the best agency doing what it did. And so, in a way, Mel, when I got into that meeting, I thought I had a gift in my hand, and I was ready and willing to share my gift because I knew I had an idea that was golden. And I really approached that meeting saying, hey, I have this golden, brilliant thing that I have researched and I understand, and I'd gone out and made, you know, I had a pair of jeans, and this is going to be the next big thing in fashion. And so my mindset was that this is done. I am launching this thing. It comes out in October. Where do we go from here? And I think that there was something so special in that moment because everybody could see it, everybody understood, stood the reason I was able to attract the right investors and the right partners and the right retailers is because the idea and the execution and what led up to it was so incredibly special. I had done my homework. I knew the difference between me and everybody else. I had obsessed the price point. I could tell you the price of every single pair of jeans that sat on the Nordstrom denim floor. And I could tell you what the content of those jeans were. And I could tell you how my jeans were made differently and why, when a woman put them on, she felt a certain way in them. Because I was obsessed. Obsessed beyond anything that would be reasonable. Because in my head, I had to succeed at something that was mine. Because when you spend your life as a consultant making everybody else look good and being the person behind the scenes and not taking credit for, there's only so much of that that an ego like mine can take. Quite honestly. I was like, wow, look at that campaign. That's their idea again, you know, that I came up with. And so, for me, I was ready to take credit and to do something that meant something to a group of women that I admired, that I felt had been overlooked. And the love that I got Back. Mel, I cannot say the best thing about Good American wasn't the million dollar first day. Wasn't that, you know, all the praise we got. It's the women on the streets, the women that would stop me, you know, I would go into Nordstrom and people, because I used to, you know, I was like, I'm going to work in Nordstrom and I just hang around until a customer comes and I'd be like, have you seen this brand, Good American. And they'll be, oh my God, I just bought very Good American. I'm back to buy my second pair, my third pair, you know, it was feverish and I could tell from all the feedback that I was getting that we had done something really, really special.

Emma Grede (68:47)

That's what they don't tell you. Yeah. And it really, when I say it was a disaster the first, you know, I will. If you go back to launch day, it was amazing actually, because, you know, you've got your Shopify site. I was in, you know, my husband had an office in LA at that time. I was like just sitting at a conference table with the two people that I'd hired around that conference day at room table. And so we had the Shopify screen up and you can see like the customers are starting to come in and people are starting to purchase. And everyone was like, Emma, you're a chance genius. You're gonna like have amazing sales today. This is like 9 o' clock and I'm like, I'm so clever. And then 10 o' clock rolls around and they're like, well, you know, you're out of all the size whatevers this through this. And I'm like, it's okay, you know, we'll replenish. And this wonderful woman, I will never forget, she still works with me to this day. Melissa Anderson. She says, you do know that we're off calendar. And I thought, why is this woman talking about what does off calendar, off calendar mean? Well, that's the problem now. Cause you're not in fashion, so you wouldn't know what off calendar means. But I was in fashion and I still didn't know what off calendar meant. And if I'd have known I wouldn't have had the problems that I had. So my naivety kind of hit me right there because she was like, you don't have more inventory if you sell through what is here today. It's going to take months to get back into stock and we are not holding any fabric and we don't have the vendors lined up. Because in my head, there is no way that you would sell through that much inventory. It was a brand new brand. It was a brand new idea. You know, even retailers, when we pick, didn't fully understand the concept of carrying all of those sizes. So, long story short, I remember Everybody, by about 11 o', clock, they stopped celebrating me. And by 12, it was like, maybe you're not fit to be the CEO of this company. And I thought, maybe I'm not for about 30 seconds. And I was like, everybody needs to calm down. And at that point, it was like a lesson in customer service because I had started to disappoint people because people were coming on the website and they couldn't get their size, they couldn't get what they wanted. And so I started calling people. And at that point, of course, it's all email. There were no phone numbers. So I was like, what is your phone number? Hi, Sally from Michigan. I'm so sorry. I can get you a pair of jeans in about 13 weeks. And I just went and I went and I went and I emailed and I phoned and I called. And that's when I started to really click, fundamentally understand the business that I was in. Because I had to go backwards before I could go forwards. I had to figure out, how is this juggernaut going to actually work and function? Because I don't understand it.

Emma Grede (77:17)

They're telling you a story. They are weaving a narrative in your mind for what this thing does, for the solution, for how it came to be. And they're going all around that. But they are taking you on a journey. And you're like, you're in. You're in like you're being Red Goldilocks, right? It's like. And you're eating it up. And that is the starting point. Because to be an incredible entrepreneur, you've got to be able to see sell, and you got to be able to storytell. And those two things are the things that I think people don't think about enough. When you can craft a story and a narrative that is compelling to your customers, you got them, you got them hooked. That is your sales pitch. So really figuring that out and practicing it. I can't tell you how many times I sat down in a mirror and spoke about Good American before I met Pete Nordstrom. Like maybe 50 times. I did that pitch over and over and over and over again. Remember, Mel? I knew nothing about the construction of denim. I was a marketing kid who went into product. So I had to like really finesse it and I had to again, you know, I'm not a plus size woman, but I had to embody my customer and embody who I was solving for. So the first thing is like, get your storytelling down and make sure you're not just flogging a product. You are telling an interesting, compelling narrative. And then you got to work out your timing. Because if you're in a party, if you are at a social event, if you're on a quick ride, like, that's not the time, that's not it. And you would be better saying, I've got something that would be really interesting to you. And I wonder if you've got a good five minutes to do it. Because if you get that timing off right, the person is not there to receive your thing. My next thing is about your attitude. You can be excited, you can be exuberant, you can actually even be a little bit arrogant, right? That is fine. So long as you know you're shit. And you really need to know it. You really need to know. And when I say you need to know it, you need to know your competition, you need to know what you're up against. You need to have figured all of those things out. Because when you have have your chance, you have to be ready. There is no practice. There is no. It's like that's your moment. So you got to figure Those things out way ahead of time. That's how you do a really great and really compelling pitch.