← The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast
The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast
Ben Greenfield Breaks Down Every Peptide, Patch and Protocol He Uses When He Travels | Ben Greenfield EP 237
01:26:28
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- [00:00]
A
Red at True Tide is kind of like a sledgehammer for quieting food noise. I inject it on airplane travel days because I don't want to think about eating. I don't have access to good food. Sometimes it's annoying to like pack a cooler and pack all the food wild.
- [00:11]
B
Ben Greenfield, I have a bunch of questions for you.
- [00:13]
A
Well, I might have some for you too. How do you recommend people structure a carnivore diet for a kid?
- [00:20]
B
I think if I had had a limited diet when I was a kid, I could have avoided a hip and ankle replacement. I've been avoiding antibiotics and pharmaceuticals for like a decade because I was like, how much did that as a kid contribute to all dysbiosis and like disease that I have?
- [00:34]
A
The rejuvenation effect. People call it like the blood boy stuff. Get the actual young stuff put back in or use stem cells or exosomes.
- [00:41]
B
How long has that been around? Give me the children blood.
- [00:43]
A
I mean, ever since the days of the vampire, I guess. Texas is the only state where it's actually legal.
- [00:55]
B
Ben Greenfield, welcome to my theater room.
- [00:58]
A
Your. Your sauna of a city.
- [00:59]
B
Yes.
- [01:00]
A
Like what, noon and it's already probably almost 100 degrees outside.
- [01:05]
B
Yeah. This March has been. This march is nasty. This summer is going to be brutal. Yeah, but not compared to Canadian winter.
- [01:11]
A
I don't know, I'm in North Idaho. You probably have a speed in Canada.
- [01:14]
B
How cold does it get there? Is it awful?
- [01:16]
A
It gets pretty cold. We're kind of like on the windswept plane in this little 125 person community. And it gets like there's. There's definite wind chill factor. Like I get free cryotherapy chamber every time I go out to my office. There's like a hallway that you walk out of the house and into my office and just wind pours in there.
- [01:36]
B
So I don't. Well, I don't want that.
- [01:38]
A
Yep.
- [01:39]
B
At all. Okay. I have a bunch of questions for you.
- [01:43]
A
Okay.
- [01:44]
B
And I've heard.
- [01:44]
A
Well, I might have some for you too.
- [01:46]
B
Okay, let. Let's.
- [01:47]
A
And I don't. Are you. Are you able to talk about the study? You texted me like a few weeks ago about this study.
- [01:54]
B
Yes.
- [01:54]
A
That you were doing.
- [01:55]
B
I can talk about it.
- [01:56]
A
I'm just going to ask first. Then what. What's the latest on the carnivore study thing?
- [02:00]
B
We're starting in two weeks. Officially we've got a bunch of people, although we're still taking applicants. If people want to join, they need to have a diagnosis Diagnosis of a rheumatoid arthritis or ibd.
- [02:13]
A
Yep.
- [02:14]
B
And we're trying to get as many people as we can because the few studies on the carnivore diet specifically are. It's like 10 people. There was a good study, a solid study on IBD where everybody went into remission, and it was 10 people. So we're trying to. We're trying to make that larger and move into, like, the arthritis territory, which matters to me because I had juvenile idiopathic arthritis. Yeah. The team. I just had a podcast with Dr. Rob Abbott, and he reached out to run it because he's done a number of studies and was interested in kind of pushing this field forward. We crowdfunded a big portion of it, so that was on GoFundMe. Okay. We had a couple people who are really interested in carnivore research reach out and give, like, bigger donations.
- [03:02]
A
And for people who don't understand how the crowdfunding works, is this so you can get bigger ribeyes or are there other expenses associated with running a proper research study like this?
- [03:12]
B
Oh, my gosh. Well, the biggest. So the research team is getting paid, but they're being unbelievably reasonable. Like, you'd never get that from a university. You went that route. Like, I looked into running studies previously, and they were in the 2 to 3 million dollars range for something like this. And I was like, where is that money going? So the research team is getting paid more than reasonably. Most of the costs are for labs because we're doing the. We're doing a.
- [03:41]
A
That makes sense.
- [03:42]
B
A stool test. And that's in the, like, $700 range. And then we're doing. We're doing that twice. We're doing blood work throughout. We're buying keto monitors for everybody to monitor ketones and Gl and a body composition scale. So almost all of the cost, you know, it's over a thousand dollars. That's just going towards people who are part of the study, and that's the major cost.
- [04:06]
A
Blood markers related to inflammation, autoimmune, etcetera, as well, right?
- [04:11]
B
Yeah. So, like, general ones. And then we picked some that were more associated with autoimmunity. And then for the results, basically the results are going to be how much people's lives improve and symptoms improve according to them. So that's going to be what matters, because that is really what matters is do you feel like you're healing or you're in remission? But we're also going to have all the data from the lab Works and the stool samples to see if there's any pattern that we can pick up. So we're going to have a lot of data and then we'll see what we can churn out there. If there's patterns.
- [04:48]
A
Yeah. And, and obviously I'm assuming this isn't going to be like a metabolic ward study where these people are all living in a space capsule, but are you going through some kind of process to keep the diet, like consistent in terms of what they're eating or their instructions? Just like only eat meat or what's the actual diet look like as far as consistency?
- [05:05]
B
So for the first month, what I've found with people who transition to just eating meat is, especially if they have an autoimmune disorder, is if they go from the standard American diet and a high carb and high processed foods to just meat. That first month is gnarly and unpleasant and hard.
- [05:21]
A
Do you think that's because of like the transition to burning fat instead of of carbohydrates or like lower calories or cluster factors?
- [05:30]
B
Like, from my experience, and I didn't go from standard American diet to Carnivore, I went from like a very limited keto to Carnivore and there was still a transition. I think a lot of it is microbiome change.
- [05:42]
A
Okay. Yeah. Because that would rule out some, you know, fat burning transition period.
- [05:50]
B
And I still had kind like a rough time, gut wise. Um, but it was weird. It was like my gut got worse on Carnivore initially, but all the symptoms that I was really concerned about, so like the depression and the arthritis went away and I was like, what do you do here?
- [06:06]
A
Probably why a lot of people experience a shift, including myself. I did a 12 week strict carnivore after Paul Saladino flew up to my house and did a podcast and convinced me. Well, he, I mean, literally, like he, like we would make steaks and he would not let anybody touch his steak. You know, only salt. Like super strict, but, but also pretty SM informed guy. So he convinced me that it would be a good idea to try. And I tried it for 12 weeks. But the initial almost week was like a mix of like, you know, liquid poo, like weird gas.
- [06:40]
B
What do you think?
- [06:40]
A
I did not expect.
- [06:41]
B
What did you think that was that
- [06:43]
A
are probably related to the microbiome shift that you're talking about. You're essentially reinventing the entire substrate for your bacteria. Well, technically starving. Possibly a little bit of a Herxheimer reaction for some of the bacteria that are starving off. So yeah, yeah. For the back to what people are actually eating, though, is this like nose to tail. Is it just like whatever you want to eat, as long as it's not plants.
- [07:10]
B
So we're doing the first month is going to be like, no processed food, very low carb. And that's going to be the transition month. So that getting into the carnivore diet isn't so bad. We. We're actually splitting the group of people. So there'll be a third of the people are going to be transitioning into the lion diet, which is meat. I don't think we're going to include organs at the beginning. It's just going to be ruminant meat, salt and water. They'll be transitioning into that. A third of the people are going to be.
- [07:36]
A
So by the way, when you say ruminant meat, so people understand, we're talking about like, lamb, lamb, cow. What about fish?
- [07:43]
B
Anything?
- [07:43]
A
No, no fish. Okay.
- [07:45]
B
No.
- [07:45]
A
Is there a reason for the no fish thing?
- [07:47]
B
I mean, this is just based off of, like. This is really based off of my experience and then my experience, like, running groups of like 30,000 people.
- [07:54]
A
Yeah.
- [07:55]
B
And seeing what they react to.
- [07:57]
A
And for like, don't eat sardines.
- [08:00]
B
They probably would.
- [08:01]
A
Yeah, yeah. I would imagine they're cats.
- [08:03]
B
They probably would.
- [08:04]
A
Okay, so ruminant meats.
- [08:06]
B
Yes. That's a third of the group. And then the. Another third is going to transition. Transition into the ketogenic diet. So that's regular ketogenic diet. So, like no processed foods, but like dairy, egg, meat, you know, greens. Low carb. Ketogenic diet.
- [08:22]
A
Right. And that's going to show us clinical low carb. You're talking like, probably below, what, like 40 grams?
- [08:28]
B
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
- [08:30]
A
Pretty low carb.
- [08:31]
B
And they'll be testing ketones too. So we're going to, like, lower it till they're in, like a therapeutic ketosis range. And that'll show us if the effects are due to ketosis or due to more of an elimination of plant foods. So there's that, and then there's going to be a third that are stuck on their regular diet, which is gonna be standard American. And in three months, we're going to transition them onto one of the therapeutic diets, too. So everybody who joins can, like, get dietary treatment monitored by a doctor, but we'll at least have a control group that's a regular diet.
- [09:05]
A
Right.
- [09:06]
B
Everyone does a transition for a month to, like, lower carb and then into the ketogenic diet or ruminant meat.
- [09:13]
A
Studies like this, I don't know if you ever looked into this. Like, do you anticipate that there'll be a certain number of people who, like, whatever, driving by a Mickey D's or their kid brings home some snack from school, and they're like, screw it, I'm out. And you get dropouts due to poor dietary adherence.
- [09:28]
B
I mean, for sure, like, it's tricky. And being that strict is unbelievably tricky. So we have a group. So everybody in the study will be able to meet other people in the study and kind of give them support, which I think is really necessary when you're trying to make that much of a dramatic dietary change. They're going to be monitored by doctors, they're going to be testing ketones, so we'll kind of be able to monitor. It's not like we have cameras on everybody all the time, but they can
- [09:51]
A
talk each other off slowly. Put down the sourdough. Step away. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. You know, it is. It's compelling to me because you're looking at something that, I think more from a longevity, less from a health standpoint, is something that actually recently got fleshed out in a really big, I guess, flesh, pun intended. In this case, a big Chinese study. It was over 5,000 participants. It was like a progressive study, not a regressive study, meaning that they actually looked at what people were eating and then what the response was, rather than looking at how long someone lived and then regressing and asking them what kind of diet they ate in life. So this followed people over a long period of time.
- [10:37]
B
Interesting.
- [10:38]
A
And what they found, long story short, was that particularly in people 80 years or older, that inclusion of animal proteins lent itself significantly to increased lifespan and quality of life. So health span lifespan improved with inclusion of specifically animal proteins, but it wasn't strictly proteins. They weren't looking at things necessarily like arthritis and immune factors, even though those play a role in, like, cause mortality.
- [11:07]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [11:08]
A
So it'll be interesting to see what the difference is when maybe protein is equivalent, but then it's just from animals. Imagine your favorite lecture, dial that up on Max, put that on steroids, and then add some cinematic elements to it. That's the best way I could describe a Peterson Academy lecture.
- [11:29]
B
There's always that one professor who's like, oh, man, you know, you gotta take this one professor.
- [11:33]
A
They're the best. But at Peterson Academy, it's all of those.
- [11:37]
B
That one professor,
- [11:40]
A
I'm still paying off College from 10 years ago, and I'm also still Questioning the value that I got out of college.
- [11:45]
B
It's very common nowadays for students to be in thousands and thousands of dollars of debt. It breaks my heart, the interest rates that are just going to keep on piling up on them. For an education that doesn't entirely serve
- [11:57]
A
them, you are stuck in the room. You have to do a particular set of courses and I have to convince myself to stay focused.
- [12:03]
B
It's just pretty dry with Peterson Academy. It's a fraction of the cost and you get access to all these different topics.
- [12:11]
A
It goes anything from sciences, nutrition, why we get sick, all the way up to history. Tons of courses, tons of really good lectures.
- [12:19]
B
I'm always looking for high quality educational content. Peterson Academy provides it all.
- [12:23]
A
The instructors are amazing. They're so well known in their field that you just want to pay attention. The more I access, the more I listen, the more I learn, the more
- [12:31]
B
I want to learn.
- [12:32]
A
I just keep expanding and I just want more. Traditional university can sometimes ground you down. Peterson Academy will be able to scratch that itch of you wanting to learn and continuing to grow as a person. I can't wait to see where Peterson Academy goes. There's just so much potential and it's just the beginning. I went to college because I had to. I go to Peterson Academy because I want to.
- [12:53]
B
You just kind of have to focus on what's going to actually change your life. Stop paying attention to what things are supposed to look like and actually aim for something and you might just stumble across something like Peterson Academy. I think part of like my hypothesis, or here is like, I think part of the reason that just ruminant meat seems to work pretty effectively for autoimmunity is the elimination is like due to incredible gut damage and leaky gut. And people just stop being able to tolerate foods that would otherwise be healthy because their gut barrier is too damaged. And so that's why we're doing the stool testing in some of these labs that kind of look at gut barrier so that I'm interested to see that data.
- [13:39]
A
Yeah.
- [13:39]
B
And then ideally, like long term for someone, if they end up putting their autoimmunity into remission, the long term goal would be other ways of like doing gut barrier healing and then slowly reintroducing so you're not just stuck on ruminant meat. And I know for me I was stuck on ruminant meat for almost no, it was eight years without being able to add anything without having these massive flare ups. And after I did parasite treatment, which I always thought was, which I thought was a scam for a really long time.
- [14:09]
A
Please don't tell me you posted the pictures to the Internet.
- [14:12]
B
I didn't.
- [14:13]
A
On the.
- [14:13]
B
I'm not. I'm not that interesting.
- [14:15]
A
Calm. Yeah. What parasite cleanse did you do?
- [14:19]
B
So I. I went the pharmaceutical route. I worked with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, and she sent a sample to a university guy in. In Africa that looked at the sample under a microscope. Just plain old microscope. Yeah. And that's where they found some things that the tests in North America weren't picking up. Because it's not like I haven't done extensive testing throughout this period. I've been like, you know, the first thing I looked at before I even started dieting was, do I have a parasite? Right. And, like, everything came back kind of clear. I did H. Pylori treatment. That made a massive difference. And I'd been told by a lot of integrative naturopaths and regular doctors to ignore the, like, higher levels of H. Pylori.
- [15:02]
A
Yeah. And generally that's the advice. If you test with H. Pylori, but you're asymptomatic, you ignore it.
- [15:07]
B
Yeah. And I was asymptomatic, except I couldn't eat anything. Yeah. So.
- [15:11]
A
And also, H. Pylori changes the biome from. From like, a terrain hypothesis in such a way that you become more prone to parasitic infection. So those two kind of go hand in hand a lot of the time. But. So you tested clear for parasites here. But then when you sent your shit literally over to Germany, then this guy saw stuff. Oh, Africa. This guy saw stuff under the microscope.
- [15:33]
B
Yeah. And I treated those. And I. I've always, like, I've been avoiding antibiotics and pharmaceuticals for, like, a decade.
- [15:40]
A
Yeah.
- [15:41]
B
Because I was like, how much did that as a kid contribute to all the dysbiosis and, like, disease that I have? So I was very averse to that, But I ended up going the pharmaceutical route. So I took albendazole. I think I took ME Bendazole. I did the H. Pylori treatment, which is quad therapy, but I avoided. You can take a fluoroquinolone for that, and I avoided those. And I avoided metronidazole, which makes me feel terrible as well. So I took the safer antibiotics and that. That, plus strictly monitoring my air quality and getting out of mold and using a binder, fixed my digestion. My mom did the same thing. Fixed her digestion. She's had digestive issues since she can remember as, like, a kid.
- [16:25]
A
Yeah.
- [16:25]
B
And the ruminant meat, like, lion diet Put her arthritis into remission, but didn't fix that, like, digestive problem. Pharmaceuticals ended up fixing her problem. And so now she's able to eat more things, too. I've been. I still feel best. I've realized after, like, experimenting a little bit with some, like, arugula, lettuce. Like, really.
- [16:46]
A
Yeah.
- [16:47]
B
Nice things.
- [16:48]
A
But back. Back to the idea that when you're following a carnivore diet, a lot of times you feel better because you're eliminating a lot of the things that contributed to leaky gut. That's where I think, kind of like you were just talking about. It's reasonable to think about implementing some other things that can help to heal up leaky gut faster. Like, you know, I know that bone broth is something that you wouldn't consider to be not allowed on a carnivore diet, right?
- [17:17]
B
No.
- [17:17]
A
Okay.
- [17:17]
B
So totally fine.
- [17:18]
A
Broth is one, because the glycine, everything but peptides like kpv. I don't know if you've heard of that.
- [17:23]
B
Oh, my gosh. Kpv.
- [17:24]
A
Super great. That and lorazatide, those two are.
- [17:29]
B
I don't know. Lorazotide.
- [17:31]
A
Yeah, that one. You can get it from a compounding pharmacist. And it is similar to KPV in efficacy. It's like an oral capsule that you take before a meal, like, 10 minutes before a meal. And a lot of people will, like, inject KPV, take lorazotide. And that's kind of like the new 1, 2 combo for leaky gut issues.
- [17:50]
B
Okay.
- [17:51]
A
If the whole, like, natural, like, glutamine, colostrum, glycine, bone broth thing isn't really working interesting. And I. I get. When I travel, I get princess gut. Like, I'm fine at home, and then it's like, whatever, you know, corn and carrot shreds and quinoa in the toilet bowl if I ever, like, veer off of a healthy diet.
- [18:11]
B
Yeah.
- [18:12]
A
And so now I travel with kpv and I just inject it every morning, and it's almost completely nuked. Any gut issues?
- [18:19]
B
I love kpv. Yeah, that was the one peptide. Actually, the Gabrielle Lyon was suggested that one, too. And that's one that I could noticeably feel, like, physiologically calmer and it was noticeable. And usually I only keep doing things that I can, like, tell are working so I don't end up on a whole bunch of things. But KPV I like a lot of
- [18:39]
A
time, probably a lot. It's not really for leaky gut or gut barrier issues, but just General gut inflammation. Just oral BPC157.
- [18:46]
B
Yeah, I haven't done that yet, but probably should.
- [18:49]
A
Yeah. I know a lot of people get concerned about a lot of these because of lack of long term human research, which is true. Like I'm not one of those guys who thinks peptides are a miracle care for everything without risk because you just can't say. I mean they're very simple, they're short chains of amino acids and they seem to act with pretty good precision on the organ systems that they're supposed to target. But there is kind of like a glaring lack of long term human clinical research on them. Anecdotally most of the people who seem to have like side effects are getting them from like the bargain bin, you know, muscle bro website where a lot of times it's just like less high quality, less pure Chinese imports, you know, not manufacturing CGMP facilities. That's like the whole kind of battle that's going on in the peptide industry right now is you know, how can you secure access for people to get good stuff without them? Like buying from these fly by night websites which have been getting shut down. There's like cease and desist letters.
- [19:51]
B
Yeah, one of the, one of the websites I, we were buying from just shut down.
- [19:55]
A
Yeah, like peptide sciences, like that one. Big ones. Yeah, I think that was the biggest one and they went bye bye. And so probably what's going to happen is that some of the peptides that we are familiar with, like probably some of the GLPs, SS31, which is kind of like a, like a brain support peptide for the mitochondria, those will shift to more of like a pharmaceutical setting. And then a lot of the other ones you'll be able to get through like a compounding pharmacist or through your doctor who is getting them from a 503, a compounding pharmacist, you know, in like a good manufacturing practices facility. But yeah, I think, I think the old days of just like googling a peptide and going to a website and using your favorite influencers discount code is probably going to go away.
- [20:43]
B
I, I think so too. What are your, if you had to. I recommend peptides for people to look into.
- [20:50]
A
Yeah. What are your top three, how you phrase that? Look into? Yeah, yeah. I am not a doctor. This is not medical advice. Kpv like we mentioned, that's, that's a pretty good one. Obviously it's a little bit more difficult to get but I think for the quieting food noise piece, if you are paying Attention to good protein intake, good amino acid intake and weightlifting. Like Retta True Tide is kind of like a sledgehammer for quieting food noise. I inject it on airplane travel days because I don't want to think about eating. I don't have access to good food. Sometimes it's annoying to like pack a cooler and pack all the food and I would lose too much weight and lose too much muscle. Like I'm kind of a hard gainer anyways. If I were to inject that like three times a week or do like a big bolus weekly. But baby dose of that, I'm talking like 0.25 milligrams. And if you look at a lot of these studies with muscle mass, they're using like 2.5 milligrams plus. Yeah, that one is super good. Probably because it's acting on three different hunger pathways. So it's like, it's called like a triple agonist.
- [21:53]
B
Okay.
- [21:54]
A
It's effective. It's also one of those ones that is probably going to go the pharmaceutical route. So I don't know how much longer after this podcast comes out people will even be able to get that one. So read a true Tides one for the kind of like growth hormone secretag visceral fat muscle gain piece along with recovery. Typically stacking a couple of different growth hormone type of peptides like morning and evening and this is kind of like old school bodybuilding stuff. But now a lot of people are doing this just to like maintain muscle are a couple of peptides, one called Tessa Morellin. Have you heard of that one? Maybe heard of very good for growth hormone release but also for decreasing visceral fat accumulation or helping you burn more visceral fat, which is the type of fat that tends to be more associated with chronic disease. It's kind of like the pear shaped stuff that accumulates around the organs and then in the evening there's one called ipamrelin. And okay, that's something that you can stack like one in the morning, one in the evening. And typically what that looks like for somebody is you do like 12 weeks of five days on, two days off. And the cool part about the ipamorelin is it also helps you to sleep at night, but it doesn't work very well if you have high blood glucose or high insulin levels. So you typically inject it like this kind of necessitates like getting an early dinner. So if you eat it like if you end eating at like 6pm you would inject at 7:38, you know 8:30pm before you go to bed. Oh, so that's a pretty good combo. And then so everything I mentioned so far, like kpv, Retatrue, Tide, tessamorelin, ipamorelin, those are all injectables. And some people are like, well, I'm needle phobic, I don't want to travel around with a bunch of insulin syringe and alcohol swabs. So the cool thing is that a lot of peptide delivery mechanisms have kind of changed. Like you can get a microneedle patch that delivers everything within about eight to 10 minutes. You can wear a long term patch for things that go beyond peptides like nad. I flew down here yesterday and this is another thing I do on travel days. I inject Retro Tide and I put on an NAD patch. It kind of like slow bleeds transdermally 1300 milligrams of NAD in while I'm traveling. And it helps a ton with travel fatigue, with sleep deprivation, with just kind of like the blah feeling that you get.
- [24:30]
B
Is there any weird. I've had the IVs of NAD that
- [24:33]
A
are brutal, like the stomach flipping. Yeah. And a lot of times people notice that more with the IVs because it is getting into the bloodstream faster and also because if you look at this patch, it is a 12 hour patch, so twice as long in terms of how quickly it's getting released into your bloodstream. And then people who are poor methylators tend to really have an issue with NAD because those pathways. And if you feel like crap when you get an NAD IV and you take a methyl donor like trimethylglycine or Sammy or something like that, right before your iv, a lot of times you feel way better. But then these patches, they, they basically are giving it to you without the IV in very similar doses. I mean 1300 milligrams is a lot of NAD.
- [25:21]
B
Can you just get those online peptide place or something like that?
- [25:25]
A
There's two companies I know, Pepsule has them, Ion Layer. Might I get mine from Pepsual? And then it's got a little bit of GHK copper peptide in it. Oh yeah, it's kind of a good anti inflammatory peptide. That's an interesting one because so you measure the size of something like a peptide in units called Daltons and GHK copper peptide is like 50 Daltons. So that's why it works so well as a beauty product. So a lot of people like men will use it for like a graying, like a salt and pepper beard. It seems to help with hair color in facial hair.
- [26:03]
B
Wow.
- [26:03]
A
Some people, and this is, this is anecdotal, but they'll do like the derma roller or micro needling thing and then apply transdermal like topical GHK copper peptide and say that it helps with follicular health or like slowing hair growth. It's not going to grow new hair, but anecdotally it might slow hair growth. And then just as a beauty product because it is absorbed so well, it's in a lot of beauty products right now. So that's GHK copper peptide. And then if you want to look at another delivery mechanism, intranasal is pretty cool because you can cross the blood brain barrier really easily. And a lot of these peptides work on either GABA pathways in the brain to kind of like calm you something like Sea Link or C Max. One of those can also increase brain derived neurotrophic factor which will grow for your brain.
- [26:57]
B
Done some digging into that.
- [26:58]
A
Those you can do intranasally. SS31 is also really great for the brain. That's another one that's probably going the pharmaceutical route. But that one you can do intranasal. You can do nad intranasal now. Oh, then BPC 157 and TB 500 are these two anti inflammatory peptides. Like I mentioned, if you took BPC orally, it'd be great for gut inflammation. But those I consider to be kind of like first aid kit, like whatever sprained an ankle, you know, tore something up during a workout or even brain inflammation like applied nasally. And then probably the last one that you might be interested in is there's one called vip. I believe it stands for vasoactive.
- [27:42]
B
I've taken too personal.
- [27:43]
A
Polypeptide.
- [27:44]
B
Yeah.
- [27:45]
A
And that one for, for like mycotoxin for mold. Microtoxin exposure seems to do a really good job as far as surgeon nasal for biofilm type of stuff. Yep. It is part of SIRS treatment. I think that's part of. Who's the big mold? Mycotoxin guy? Richmond Shoemaker. Richie Shoemaker. Yeah. And he's using that in his practice quite a bit. So there's like dozens and dozens of different peptides. But that's kind of a sampling of some of the cool ones that can at least bring people down the rabbit hole.
- [28:18]
B
That's very cool.
- [28:19]
A
Yeah.
- [28:19]
B
Okay. Thank you for that. I did like kpv. I tried VIP because of the surge treatment and couldn't. And then I keep getting pregnant. So like it's delaying everything.
- [28:29]
A
Yeah.
- [28:29]
B
Like pregnancy Delay for like.
- [28:31]
A
Wait, what do you mean it's delaying? You mean like getting pregnant?
- [28:34]
B
Well, I don't. I don't want to take peptide while I'm pregnant. Yeah, I'm okay with experimenting on myself, but. And I'm not even really that concerned about them, but like. Yeah, you can't do it with when you're pregnant, so that's been delaying a lot of my tests.
- [28:46]
A
I think that's safe. Yeah.
- [28:47]
B
This seems reasonable.
- [28:49]
A
Crazy baby.
- [28:49]
B
Yeah. Really strong baby. So.
- [28:52]
A
Yeah, but with peptides. Yeah. It's still kind of like the wild, wild west as far as research goes. So it's kind of like a. Proceed at your own risk type of thing.
- [29:00]
B
Yeah, for sure. Okay, that's interesting. Have you. This is a kind of random question out of the blue, but. And just a selfish question. My family seems to have issues with sulfur. And I'm wondering if you know anything about that, whether it's like a pathway issue or what. Because when we first started, got off of all the meds, so it was mostly psych meds. Started going like ketogenic diet, getting healthier. It's almost like it popped up. I think it's always been there because I had some issues.
- [29:31]
A
Beef, because of the higher sulfur containing amino acids. And meat.
- [29:35]
B
Do you think that would be it? It's mostly like sulfite. Major sulfite allergy. And that's actually hives and things.
- [29:42]
A
Yeah.
- [29:43]
B
But then it also seems to be sulfate as well, which I know doesn't usually react when you have a sulfide allergy. So I was like, what is that? What's that about? But B vitamins have always been an issue. This is way before diet. So I think there's some, I don't know, methylation issues going on. I can't take methyl. Methylated vitamins at all.
- [30:00]
A
Interesting. Yeah. I don't know that much about sulfur sulfate sensitivities, but I did interview Dr. Ben Lynch. I don't know if you're familiar with his website, Seeking Health. And he has a genetic screening tool. I forget the name of. Of the test that he uses. But one of the pathways that he talks about in the test results in his book are sulfur sensitivities pop up there, histamine sensitivity. So he'd be kind of the man to look into for that.
- [30:28]
B
Okay. Yeah, I think he told. I think I did that actually years ago and probably didn't pay attention to that test. So. Yeah, I'll look back into that.
- [30:35]
A
Yeah, yeah. And he has a book too.
- [30:39]
B
Dirty Jeans.
- [30:40]
A
Yeah. Dirty jeans. Yeah.
- [30:41]
B
Yes.
- [30:41]
A
Dr. Ben lynch, dirty jeans. I like it because he identifies like some of the genetic pathways that you really need to care about about kind of like cutting through a lot of the, like dozens and dozens of different gene variants that sometimes are just a waste of time.
- [30:55]
B
Yeah. His supplement line is great too. That's where you can actually get. I started taking folinic acid because if you're only eating. This is what I figured out. After eight years of only eating meat, folate levels slowly go down. That's what happened to me. Now my B vitamins looked terrible before I started dieting.
- [31:11]
A
Yeah.
- [31:11]
B
So it's not like they were good and got worse, but they didn't improve. And all the other B vitamins did, but folate didn't. And I can't take methylfolate, I can't take folic acid. But folinic acid has been great and Seeking Health has a version of that.
- [31:27]
A
Yeah, yeah. They also, for people. And this is kind of similar to the sulfate or sulfur sensitivity thing is histamine sensitivities.
- [31:37]
B
100. Yeah.
- [31:38]
A
A huge issue for, for a lot of people. Like, I'm surprised more and more at the people who I talk to who get like brain fog, bloating gas, disrupted sleep because it affects a lot of glucose metabolism and get on like the, the primary, like the, the, the, the, the big sledgehammer forward is something called diamine oxidase or dao.
- [31:59]
B
I, I took that for years after mold, like skyrocketed histamine issues.
- [32:04]
A
But then a lot of people who are, you know, who are into kombucha, you know, like back to sardines, canned fish, wine, sauerkraut, kimchi. A lot of things that a lot of people who think they're eating a healthy diet are eating.
- [32:18]
B
Yeah.
- [32:18]
A
Who have histamine sensitivities, which are pretty common and are also, they, they're worse. If you have had mold and mycotoxin issues in the past. They can use like, like Ben lynch has a great line of histamine based or anti histamine based probiotics and then diamine oxidase type of stuff which if you combine that with eliminating those things from your diet and you have those type of issues and you've tried a bunch of stuff like the, the histamine control seems to work pretty well for a lot of people.
- [32:46]
B
That's the other thing that I think improves with meat diet or carnivore diet is now like aged meat. Different story. But meat's fairly low in histamine compared to a lot of these other foods, especially the fermented foods or like cheese. But even some fruits that are histamine liberators are high in histamine.
- [33:05]
A
Yeah.
- [33:06]
B
The carnivore diet kind of cuts out all that noise too. I tried to see if the foods that I was reacting to were just the foods that were releasing histamine or high in histamine, and it ended up being more than that. But I think that was a major issue for me. And that's gotten a lot better since getting out of mold and doing the parasite stuff. Yeah, the histamine thing, everything's calmed down, which is great. That was annoying.
- [33:28]
A
So how picky are you if you, or you're talking to somebody who you're. You're wanting to do like a strict carnivore diet. Are you about like cooking methods, herbs, spices? You mentioned aging. I mean like brass tacks. What's it look like? Like, like for somebody who hasn't experimented with what a gold standard carnivore diet would look like for somebody who really wants to control an autoimmune issue. Rheumatoid arthritis, something like that.
- [33:56]
B
So I'm probably more relaxed than. It's weird. I'm very strict. I suggest salt and meat. So no spices, nothing. If you have an autoimmune disorder or psych disorder, like a disease you're trying to calm down is like, just eat meat.
- [34:11]
A
Okay. I'll mention if that digestive, like get into details. Like salt. Are you picky about source?
- [34:18]
B
I'm, I'm picky, yes. I say make sure that it doesn't have anti caking agents. Okay. And I suggest some brands. So like I use Jacobson's, which I like because I know it's been tested.
- [34:27]
A
Yeah.
- [34:27]
B
And it doesn't have high levels of like scary things that have like lead or something like that that you can get in salt. So yeah, I suggest all those products. So I normally say, like, check everything that you're buying for ingredients. And if you're buying salt, like buy a good salt that doesn't have an anti caking agent.
- [34:43]
A
Yeah.
- [34:44]
B
I try to keep things fairly simple for people who are really sick and already overwhelmed with the idea of cutting everything out of their diet. So I'm like, like for the first month, you know, buy the tastiest cuts you can afford to get through it. Cook it however you want to cook it. Like I use, and it's definitely not the most biohackery thing, but I use an air fryer almost all the time. Or a pressure cooker or something like that.
- [35:06]
A
Also small, like for pretty big families you find a big one.
- [35:10]
B
Pretty big one. It's like this.
- [35:12]
A
Restaurant owners who have big ones but air fryers say I haven't been able to find a good size air fryer. We use a poison art or they've all just been too small for me and two 18 year old boys and my wife.
- [35:27]
B
Do you see there's four over there?
- [35:29]
A
Oh you just buy more of the small ones. I see.
- [35:32]
B
Okay.
- [35:33]
A
So.
- [35:34]
B
And there's two in the, there's two in the kitchen.
- [35:37]
A
Whatever. I didn't realize those are air fryers. Okay. Now it's coming together. So we got five air fryers so far and a little bone broth maker out there. Is that what that is? Pressure cooker?
- [35:46]
B
No, that's four air fryers and there's two in the kitchen. And a pressure cooker in the kitchen.
- [35:51]
A
And air frying great. Especially like if you don't want to fry your food. But for the meat sourcing. Do you much about that?
- [36:01]
B
Not really. Like. And I've mostly. So now I, I mostly get Snake R farms because tastes excellent. I haven't. And for a while when I first did the carnivore diet I did grass fed strictly because I was trying to remove as many variables. But when I switched from grass fed to grass fed grain finished, it didn't make a difference for any of my symptoms.
- [36:23]
A
Yeah.
- [36:23]
B
And I find most people are limited. So when they hear that they can need to do a certain quality of meat they're just like that's just a step too much too far. And I've seen people with arthritis who eat McDonald's burger patties and get better.
- [36:40]
A
Yeah.
- [36:40]
B
So I usually say eat the best that you can afford. But your focus right now is like eat meat, eat salt, don't eat anything else and wait. And then when they start to get a little bit better you can be like okay, go to a regenerative farm or eat grass fed and stuff.
- [36:55]
A
Right.
- [36:55]
B
But that's. Yeah. That I haven't noticed any difference with
- [36:58]
A
quality McDonald's burger to the McDonald's burger without the bun. So maybe try to make your own burger at home to use grass fed grass finished beef and the burger you're making at home to eventually just the perfect burger.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't even do grass fed, to tell you the truth. I don't like generally speaking how it tastes compared to grass fed. Green finished.
- [37:19]
A
Yeah.
- [37:20]
B
And I wouldn't say I'm the like utmost picture of health, but compared to being completely disabled with rheumatoid arthritis and like major depressive disorder, I'm doing pretty good.
- [37:31]
A
Yeah. The issue with, with grass fed grass finished is you can lose some flavor. You lose a little bit of marbling and a lot of farmers aren't willing to weave in a lot of the other things that you can rotate into, say like a cow's diet to actually improve the flavor of the meat, but take them off of just grass fed grass finished. Like I get, yeah, a whole cow now from a farm called Owen's farm by Spokane, Washington. And they have 12 different things that they feed the cows. Everything from like pressed grape skins to alfalfa to carrots, nuts to grass. And so they're getting a really healthy gut bacterial profile which affects the quality of the meat and the health of the cow. But then that lends itself to better meat flavor. It's just hard to find farmers who are that dedicated to anything except or just gonna graze our cows and call it grass fed grass finish 100. That's good flavor.
- [38:30]
B
I've had like beef that was apple finished and carrot finished and stuff like that, and that ends up tasting better. But most of what I get, I think is grass fed grain finished. And I mean that seems fine and it's nice and marbled. And I am pretty concerned about fat content. Like that's the other rule for eating ruminant meat and going to the carnivore diet is like, like eat the fattiest cuts you can kind of eat, especially if you're trying to heal. And if you can't afford the fattier cuts, like steaks, then, well, chuck is a lot cheaper than say ribeye and they basically taste the same. But if you're eating leaner cuts, then I tell people to go make friends with a butcher or even the grocery store because it's full of trimmings. And a lot of the time the trimmings are thrown away.
- [39:12]
A
Right.
- [39:13]
B
And you can fry those with leaner cuts and make it like a great dish. And it's way cheaper than the fatty.
- [39:20]
A
Like, well, you have a lot, a lot of like toxins stored in the fat or. Yeah, or, or like people, I mean, people still get concerned about like the whole like saturated fat APOE gene thing. Like do you get pushback on any of those people who just want like lean protein?
- [39:37]
B
You know, I did most of my like the first part of my healing in Canada and I don't think we have as much of an issue In Canada with toxins stored in fat. So I wasn't having cold corn fed beef, I was really having grain fed. And like I said I didn't notice any difference in my symptoms based on what I ate as long as it was beef or beef fat. But I probably wouldn't trust getting trimmings from like a low end grocery store that has corn fed meat. I wouldn't go that route. I'd go to a butcher and at least get a better cow than it. You don't want to pick cows fat
- [40:18]
A
but you say you don't necessarily need to do grass fed, grass finished. It sounds to me like like you draw a difference between corn and grain when it comes to corn fed versus
- [40:26]
B
well I can taste the difference between corn fed and grain fed.
- [40:30]
A
Grain is taste better.
- [40:31]
B
I can kind of taste the corn.
- [40:32]
A
Yeah.
- [40:33]
B
And that kind that's like freaked me out a little bit. But whenever I've gone out to eat and had corn fed beef it hasn't given me a flare up. So usually I just say ruminant meat, fatty ruminant meat, salt with no caking anti caking agent. And then if people are still having digestive problems or getting flushed or something when they eat, then I say now you maybe have a histamine problem you need to look at and maybe switch to lamb or veal. So those are usually lower in histamine. Or get something that's less aged. And there's companies online that sell like much less aged beef but that's usually secondary. It's simple like beef, fatty beef and salt. Pretty simple. And then if you have histamine issues, I usually recommend dao and low histamine.
- [41:18]
A
It's interesting like the, the thing about the fat. I've had to tackle this just in the kitchen on culinary adventures with using a specifically a lot more tallow and cooking. Because that farm that I get the cows from, it's a breed called Piedmontese. Oh yeah, the Piedmontese breed. This is crazy story. Apparently they originated in the Middle east and lived in high climates in the Middle east with wide fluctuations in temperature. So these cows developed sweat glands which apparently is not common in cattle. And when you look at temperature regulation in an animal, one of the main reasons that you might get poor quality meat is because of high amounts of cortisol and stress. And a lot of people think stress and they think like cafo food, lot like cramp conditions. But even if like a cow is just like out on some idyllic like pastoral field, it will still be stress if it's too hot or too cold. So these are. These are like huge cows that have sweat glands. But then have you seen, like, the mtor knockout bowls or mtor knockout mice or mtor knockout little European or whatever? And they're massively muscle bound. These we were actually talking about follow statin gene therapy before we started recording. And that's very, very similar fiber, like, basically, or very, very similar pathway, this myostatin pathway. When you knock it out, you get unparalleled muscle growth. And these cattle, naturally, not only the sweat glands, but they're huge because they have this myostatin inhibition. And so then what happens is because the muscles grow so rapidly, the muscle fiber is like 116 the diameter of, like, a normal Angus cow. And that means that the chuck roast is the same tenderness as, like, the ribeye as a filet mignon. And if you want a medium rare, you have to pull it like 100 degrees, whereas normally it'd be like, you know, 140, 145. So when I first got one of these cows, like, I was overcooking everything. And then the only thing back to the feet or back to the fat is that they're so muscle bound and so lean. Like, when they butchered my cow, I asked for the tallow, and the farmer sent me a picture of the beef, like, hanging. And they're just no fat at all. They're just one giant slab of muscle. So when I cook it, I have to, like, I weave in usually, like olive oil or beef tallow and just, like, put extra fat on it. But it's a super weird breed, this Piedmontese cow.
- [44:02]
B
That is weird. I've tried that. I've seen pictures. They're weird. I use Sulu tallow. I like that brand, Sulu. I know they had a recall recently, so I'll put that out here. But I don't think that was anything serious. But they're good. Like, it's the only tallow brand I've found that it has never been rancid. Like, I used to buy towel, and I thought this is just what tallow tasted like. And it's like it always had a rancid flavor. And I was like, ugh.
- [44:25]
A
Yeah.
- [44:25]
B
And Sulu doesn't ever. They sell these big vats. So I have, like a vat this big in the fridge. Yeah, this yummy. So that's an easy way to get fat, too.
- [44:36]
A
I forget which hell, I think we're using the towel that are made by the same people who are just. Just raking it in hand over fist right now with the. The very pricey potato chips and corn chips. Ancient crunch. Yeah. Masa. Masa chips and vanity chips. They're super good chips, but I think they have a tallow company now too. It's called like American Tallow.
- [44:56]
B
That makes sense. I haven't tried theirs, so I won't
- [44:58]
A
say there's a ranted good business model. It's like there are price insensitive products, like pet products, things you get for your kids, and apparently now like eliminating seed oils from snack products like that. People will just pay hand over fist. Yeah, yeah. Enormous prices like. Like the. Like over and over again on subscription boxes for these chips that are like. They're like over $20 a bag. Yeah, but they're good. They're good.
- [45:23]
B
Yeah. Have you. How do you feel about the whole seed oil is terrible thing? You're on board with that?
- [45:29]
A
I think it's subjective. If, if you look at. At the inflammatory potential of a seed oil, particularly like a damaged seed oil that's been subjected to high amounts of pressure and high temperatures, usually in a cooking or a frying, and particularly a refrying process or a long storage time, typically in a bottle that's getting exposed to light and temperature, you do see an inflammatory response to that, but it tends to be more. It tends to be magnified in people who have high levels of visceral fat. So if you're already overweight and obese, you would respond better to eliminating seed oils from the diet than a lean person who might be able to do okay with a little bit of seed oil here and there.
- [46:26]
B
Okay.
- [46:27]
A
Thermal stress, cold fluctuation, and also heat stress affects your ability to be able to deal with the inflammation from seed oils. So something like sauna practice, cold practice, There's a specific enzyme that's regulated by that process, and I don't remember the name of it, but it influences your inflammatory response to seed oils. So that would be another one. Your Omega 3 status. Right. A lot of people will get an Omega 3 test, like an omega quantity reference ranges are like, I think 4% ish is acceptable. And I've interviewed a few omega researchers on my podcast who make a pretty good case for 8% or higher being a range that would be better to get into. And there is a protective effect of a higher omega count, like a higher omega 3 fatty acid intake on exposure to seed oils.
- [47:19]
B
Oh, okay.
- [47:21]
A
Sense activity like aerobic fitness and muscle mass. So if you exercise, engage in thermal stress, stay relatively lean, and have some type of omega 3 consumption, then you would have less of an issue with seed oil consumption than other people. But the way that I look at it is I just don't eat foods that have been fried or heavily heated in those oils. And generally, I mean, we're like macadamia nut oil, extra virgin olive oil, beef tallow, some butter. And we don't really mess around those oils much anyways. But I don't freak out of. I don't, I don't carry my I'm allergic to seed oil card to the restaurant like some of my friends do. I just think there's bigger fish to fry. But I think that if you're, if you're overweight or obese, it's definitely something to be concerned more about.
- [48:13]
B
Okay. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. Like how I figured out which foods were bad for me was literally testing one at a time and then having these horrifying reactions being like, well, I'm gonna eat that again.
- [48:24]
A
Yeah.
- [48:25]
B
And I remember when I was cutting things out, like, soy was really bad for me. Soy bean oil was really bad for me. But canola oil, I didn't really notice. Now I haven't had canola oil in like 10 years because I are like eliminated everything a long time ago. But I was, I. When everyone kind of switched the focus from like processed foods and some of these other foods to seed oils was like, those were never just anecdotally, those were never the foods that gave me like huge arthritic flare ups and psychiatric issues versus, like gluten, for instance. For me, dairy was a really big one. For me, soy was a really big one. Those were probably the top three. Not that we eat them, but I was like, right.
- [49:06]
A
It's interesting what you're saying because if you look like like a lot of those things that you just listed off, like soy, gluten, and even dairy, in some cases, there tend to be, particularly for the first two plant defense mechanisms that a lot of people are sensitive to because plants don't have. You've probably kicked this horse to death on your podcast, you know, teeth and hooves and claws and nails and can't defend themselves. And so they've developed other mechanisms to either irritate the gut of a mammal to cause it to poop out the seed elsewhere, so. So the plant can thrive or irritate the animal or make it sick so that it doesn't come back and like eat that plant out of existence. Right. Survival mechanism. And so oils compared to plants in that respect are not Quite as much of an issue now once they've been heated repeatedly and some of the underlying personal issues that we just got them talking about, they are a problem. But I think you could make a case that a. A high amount of what at low levels might be a hormetic stressor. And, and some people, even at levels of any amount, would be a significant stressor. You know, like you experienced. Those are bigger issues than oils.
- [50:19]
B
Yeah. Okay. I'm glad people are switching to tallow anyway. Yeah, it's. It's a good step in the right direction.
- [50:26]
A
Yeah, yeah, I think so. It's just, it's. It's more stable. So does your whole family eat the same way you do?
- [50:37]
B
Yeah, no. Kind of. So my brother doesn't. I don't know how he's like skirted through all the whole.
- [50:44]
A
I mean, I was thinking like your husband and kids, but I guess your extended family.
- [50:47]
B
Extended family, yes. Husband, yes. When I met him, he was. He was eating basically how I was eating, except he was having coffee. And then I told him he should stop drinking coffee and he stopped drinking coffee.
- [50:58]
A
Yeah.
- [50:58]
B
So yes, included that. He missed the caffeine for a while, but he switched to caffeine pills. That's the other thing is when people start, oh, hardcore.
- [51:07]
A
He didn't cut coffee and switch to caffeine pills.
- [51:09]
B
You know what, what I've found for people who are really sick is coffee gives you more of an inflammatory response than caffeine pills. It's not necessarily the caffeine that's the problem for everyone. I don't like how caffeine makes me feel, but it's the coffee. And we've tried mold free coffees because we thought maybe the coffee beans.
- [51:27]
A
That's what I was gonna ask.
- [51:28]
B
And I think with the like leaky gut we were dealing with, that still was a problem. But yeah, I usually say because it is a bean. It's a bean. I'm not great with beans.
- [51:37]
A
Yeah.
- [51:38]
B
I think in general.
- [51:39]
A
Yeah. So he cut coffee and does he do like strict carnivore now?
- [51:45]
B
Actually, since we moved out of mold and did the sirs. Most of the sirs treatment and did the parasite cleanse. He's probably once a week eating some other things and nothing processed but other foods. Yeah, but that's about once a week he'll be like, ah, it's a Sunday. I'm going to order True Food kitchen or something like that and have a meal out. So it's a lot less strict than before, but like 95% of his food is still beef, but way less. Like when we were in Miami and got really sick from mold, we tried to incorporate chicken and this was like cornflower, corn free, soy free, really nice quality chicken. And it was like a horrible, brutal reaction in mold. And that kind of thing is completely calmed down. So yes, he's on the diet. But like, did you look into that at all?
- [52:34]
A
Like if there's some kind of link between poultry even like clean fancy.
- [52:39]
B
No idea.
- [52:40]
A
Poultry.
- [52:40]
B
I have no idea.
- [52:41]
A
Mycotoxin.
- [52:42]
B
All I found is that like the reason it's ruminant meat is because I wouldn't feel good when I ate fish even if it was wild caught salmon.
- [52:51]
A
Yeah.
- [52:51]
B
And I'd feel worse eating chicken even if it was corn free, soy free chicken. So I was like, okay. For some reason I can't eat those things. It's much more tolerable now since all the like extra treatments.
- [53:02]
A
Yeah.
- [53:02]
B
I don't know.
- [53:03]
A
I'm on the wild caught salmon bandwagon
- [53:04]
B
though, because you're not.
- [53:06]
A
I look at it this way, so. So I bow hunt and I will admit that if I last whitetail I shot was like eight miles from my house. House. I have no clue where that animal was feeding, what fields that was feeding in.
- [53:21]
B
Yeah.
- [53:21]
A
Where I traveled, you know, what neighbor sprayed with glyphosate. And I have to accept that when I'm hunting that that wild caught animal, you know, would, would, you know, equivalent with just like super clean meat would technically be less healthy than me. Like buying and raising a deer and controlling its feed really, really strictly.
- [53:40]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [53:41]
A
Hunting that. And with fish, I mean, if you think about it like you don't know where that fish has been. We know that the ocean has microplastics and metals and that the fish may have accumulated things from fish farther down in the fish chain. And so I think if you can get, and this is what I do, if you can get fish that's farmed, but fish that's farmed and fed a tightly controlled diet and okay.
- [54:06]
B
Where tested those, I mean I would eat, eat that.
- [54:09]
A
Yeah.
- [54:10]
B
I can't use soy fed fish. So I usually avoid farmed fish.
- [54:13]
A
So I'm, I have, I'm part of an olive oil club, I'm part of a wine club and a part of a fish club. And the fish club is called Seatopia and like sea and they source fish from these different farms. They got like 30 plus farms around the world and they test all the fish. They heavily control the feed and they have everything from like aura king salmon to scallops to shrimp.
- [54:36]
B
I've heard of se.
- [54:38]
A
I looked into them as flash frozen just arrives at the house.
- [54:41]
B
Do you know if they avoid soy at the farms? That's why I avoided Ztopia, because I didn't know I could reach out and ask what they're fed. Yeah, that's been the main reason to go to wild was be.
- [54:53]
A
I would be surprised if they had soy in the feed because I think they're actually using a lot of other smaller fish in the feed.
- [55:00]
B
Yeah, that would be great.
- [55:01]
A
Yeah, I interviewed the guy. I'd have to go back and listen. I don't think he mentioned soy, but that'd be easy to find out.
- [55:07]
B
Well, they're carnivorous fish. To the fact that they're like most of the farmed salmon is fed soy
- [55:12]
A
is like, yeah, super nice. His name is James and lives in Kauai and he's just like obsessed with clean fish.
- [55:18]
B
Oh, yeah, that would be great. That sounds better.
- [55:21]
A
Yeah. And the aura King salmon, that's like the wagyu of the sea. It's incredible. Like back to the omega stuff. Like the omega content of it is through the roof. The DHA is through the roof. And so we just to make sure that we have tight ties to our community and we build relationships, we throw a dinner party typically once or twice a month. And so I always have to figure out, like, how can I make good food but also feed like 25, 30 people? And that's one of my favorite recipes is I'll get like 30 Ora King salmon filets from Seatopia.
- [55:55]
B
And.
- [55:55]
A
And then I just line a baking pan with olive oil and put the salmon like skin side down and then the secret sauce on top. I don't know if this fits your diet, but I use the. What's the. The condiment company that is seed oil free. Is it Paleo Kitchen or not? Paleo Kitchen. Primal Kitchen.
- [56:18]
B
Primal Kitchen.
- [56:19]
A
Kitchen. So Primal Kitchen Mayo, like they're chipotle lime mayo is amazing. For this, spread that on top of the salmon, put salt on that of that. On top of that, put a lemon slice on each. Slide it in the oven for like 25 minutes.
- [56:30]
B
Oh, my God.
- [56:31]
A
It's just like the most incredible fatty salmon dish. And people.
- [56:36]
B
You're selling me.
- [56:37]
A
People die over it. And it's super easy like that. That's like 20 minutes of prep time. Slide it in the oven.
- [56:42]
B
Okay, I'm going to look into them. I. I stopped eating, so I, I can now eat fish without like it used to like puff up my face. I just used to get these weird reactions. That doesn't happen anymore. But I find if I eat fish for dinner, I'm still hungry. Like I don't know how much fish. I don't know if it's because I'm so used to eating beef. But yeah, I could probably eat, I
- [57:00]
A
could eat pounds fatty fish, not like a lean white fish.
- [57:04]
B
You know the wild, the wild salmon I'm getting is pretty lean. So it could just be that.
- [57:08]
A
Yeah, no, this stuff is like dripping with fat.
- [57:10]
B
Oh, nice.
- [57:11]
A
Salmon.
- [57:11]
B
Okay.
- [57:12]
A
That'd be the way I'm sold.
- [57:13]
B
Hopefully it doesn't have soy. Yeah, yeah.
- [57:16]
A
So back to the family. What about kids? Like if people, let's say they have a child and the child has rheumatoid arthritis issues or autoimmune issues. How do you recommend people structure a carnivore diet for a kid?
- [57:33]
B
And this is coming from me and I'm not a doctor like we discussed earlier. I think if I had had a limited diet when I was a kid, I could have avoided a hip and ankle replacement. Like I was on all the immune suppressants for from age 8 to 17 and it didn't stop my like joints from being eaten by my body. So I go pretty hard when someone who's has a three year old goes, they've had arthritis for a year. I go like, what are they eating? Oh, they're eating a bunch of food. So like cut everything. They can just eat meat. They can now with my kids, my kids don't just eat meat. But what I did was I went from breastfeeding and then the first introduction was fatty meat. So it was like beef fat.
- [58:16]
A
I mean are you like dropping in the, in the Vitamix like.
- [58:21]
B
Well with scarlet. So my 8 year old, I, she did like baby led weaning and so she was like sucking on pieces of fatty steak and I was kind of chopping off the fat because she liked the fat. And then eventually she just got old enough to do like breast milk and start eating little bits of the fatty steak.
- [58:37]
A
Yeah.
- [58:38]
B
With my other too who are babies, I like we've done more of a Vitamix fatty meat thing. I did that with George. He's two and a half now. And then once he was past the age of two, I started some like apples, sweet potatoes, but he's really only eating, he's tried seaweed. Like sometimes he'll have a bite of these other things. But like he primarily eats meat and then he has Some of these other like single foods and. But I've been pretty paranoid, careful. One food at a time because of how sick I was as a kid. And because they don't care. They don't need a huge variety by the time that they're two and a half.
- [59:21]
A
Right.
- [59:21]
B
And if that can stop.
- [59:23]
A
Four dipping sauces and mustard and.
- [59:25]
B
Well, yeah. And like experience like you don't want to give a little kid. They go completely nuts with sugar. Like the first time Scarlett had sugar, now she'd had honey, but like cane sugar. Some kid in kindergarten gave her like a bit of a chocolate bar.
- [59:42]
A
Yeah.
- [59:42]
B
And she came home from kindergarten and was like running around the couch in circles and I was like, did you eat something at school?
- [59:48]
A
Giving your husband's caffeine pills? Which you. Which you kind of inadvertently did because there's this guy, he's on Instagram, he's called the mass spec guy. And he has these mass spectrometers. He's like a college professor super. Has access to mass spec tools and it allows you to get the molecular signature of anything. And he'll send. He seems to focus on vices. Like he'll choose like nicotine pouches and kratom bottles. And he's done gum and he does a lot of candy and he did a mass spec of a bunch of different chocolates out there. And the average serving like packet or whatever of a Hershey's chocolate product, like say M M's range from 50 to 100 milligrams of caffeine in the chocolate, which is far more than you'd get from like the natural cacao bean. Meaning that. Not that I want to make accusations, but it would appear that they're actually adding extra caffeine to Hershey's chocolate products. And even the. Even if it's the natural caffeine amounts. Basically, if you're giving your kid Hershey's chocolate, you should know that they're getting caffeine too, which is kind of concerning from not only a behavioral standpoint, but also potential for things like growth, stunting, bone density.
- [61:05]
B
That's wild.
- [61:06]
A
Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
- [61:08]
B
Yeah, I know. I find like, we've got Scarlet who chocolate and I find who chocolate. Like in the last couple months I've been like, oh, I'm going to try some chocolate. I haven't had that in a decade. I find it pretty stimulated, stimulating just by itself. And that's like clean, high quality.
- [61:23]
A
Who's chocolate? I think my wife single handedly keeps them in business based On. They're good secret stashes in the pantry that I don't know if she knows that I know where it's at. But that's funny. She's a who fam. So. But, yeah, it seems like Paleo that difficult with the kids, but when it comes to things like. Just like snacks that you take out of crinkly packaging, are there good, such.
- [61:50]
B
Yeah.
- [61:51]
A
Good products out there? There was one company. I want to know the ones that you like, but they were called Carnivore Snacks. I think it's called an X. And these were, like, back to the fat. Like, they were just, like, not like beef jerky. Like fatty slices of almost, like dried ribeye just like, straight out of the bag, like beef jerky, but way better.
- [62:10]
B
Carnivore Snacks. So we make our own jerky. So that's a snack. I keep it in the freezer so it doesn't get stale. Carnivore Snacks is good. Carnivore Crisps are good. I eat mostly PC jerky, which I like. It's way leaner. But I don't have to worry about rancid fat, which I can really. I'm, like, so sensitive to any of that. So I eat a lot of PC jerky for kids.
- [62:33]
A
What's PC Jerky?
- [62:34]
B
It's like, it's definitely not a. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Internet. But I. I wouldn't say it's a health brand like Carnivore Snacks or something, but they make different jerkies.
- [62:45]
A
Okay.
- [62:45]
B
And they made a plain one, so it's just salt. And I really like it. It's like eating. It's almost like eating chips, but there's not. There's not fat, so it's very lean, but I like that. And I'll eat that with the sulu tallow on top and some salt, and it kind of tastes like saltine crackers and butter. But given I haven't had saltine crackers in a decade. But, like, it's good.
- [63:04]
A
I actually have a stash of. They're not Carnivore snacks right now. Some other company. They're a little bit. Bit more dry, a little bit more of a cracker texture. And I use them like crackers.
- [63:15]
B
Yeah.
- [63:15]
A
Like, if I'm doing guacamole or a lot of times, like, I'll have a side on my salad. And you literally use them just like crackers.
- [63:22]
B
Yeah. PC Jerky. It's just like crackers.
- [63:25]
A
Yeah.
- [63:25]
B
And with tallow, it's really good. If you haven't had tallow spread on
- [63:28]
A
there with salt, make jerky. Are you using, like, one of your half dozen air fryers for this or.
- [63:34]
B
No, I have a massive. It's probably in our kitchen. Massive dehydrator. A stainless steel dehydrator that's like this big and has like 12 trays. And I get like, shabu shabu. I used to get rouladen in Canada, which is. I think it's just round roast cut for a German dish. And shabu shabu is. I don't know. It's also round roast, I think, or New York's. Cut really thin. And I just line them up on the trays and cover them in salt and stick them in. They're sliced. They're pre sliced.
- [64:05]
A
Okay.
- [64:07]
B
It's really easy.
- [64:07]
A
Just salt and dehydrate.
- [64:09]
B
Yeah. Like a lot of salt and dehydrate for, like, nine hours. And then I Ziploc bag them and put them in the freezer.
- [64:14]
A
Incredible.
- [64:14]
B
So we eat that, but there are packaged snacks that we use. Because I didn't want Scarlett to be like, go to school and, I don't know, be made fun of. I was the kid that always brought leftovers to school and stew, and everyone had those lunchables that were like poison, but I'd be like, oh, I. I don't have one of those. And they'd be like, ew. What's the stew? Yeah, like, it's stew. It's leftovers is good. But I was like, I don't want that for squirrel.
- [64:37]
A
Colorless. No crinkly packaging. No toy.
- [64:41]
B
Yeah, no toy.
- [64:42]
A
A little wooden spoon.
- [64:43]
B
Hard life. Yeah. I liked. There's a company called Bear, I think Bear fruit snacks, and they make little tiny fruit gummies.
- [64:50]
A
Yeah, I've seen these.
- [64:51]
B
Yeah. So she used to love those before she was, like, 6, and now she has, like, them anymore. There's bare fruit snacks. There was another. There's like a Soli fruit snack. There's another one that does, like, almost like, tape. Fruit tape or whatever. So there's quite a few, like, pure fruit snacks. So she'll take some of those. When she was really little, I did carnivore bars a lot because she loved Carnivore bars. Do you know that company?
- [65:19]
A
No.
- [65:19]
B
It's like Pemmican.
- [65:21]
A
Okay.
- [65:22]
B
So you can keep them.
- [65:23]
A
Pemmican is incredible. There's a company called U S Wellness Meats that I used to get a ton of Pemmican from.
- [65:28]
B
This is.
- [65:28]
A
I still order from them if I want, you know, Back to my lean cow. Like a big fatty, like French cut ribeye. U. S Wellness meats also has, like, organ meats. They've got pemmican.
- [65:39]
B
Oh, that's nice company.
- [65:40]
A
I think they're out of Nebraska, One of the. One of the Midwest states. Okay. So that's a pretty good lineup of two snacks. I. This might be a little bit of a change of direction, but with all of the things that you've done, like the parasite cleanse and the, the dietary changes and the peptides, have you gotten into, like, the fringes of the biohacking world with things like, like blood filtration therapy, plasma exchange and things.
- [66:11]
B
Not plasma exchange. I do want to get into that. When I got sick in Miami from mold, I was like that. I was so ill. So I did EBOO then, which I liked. Yeah.
- [66:21]
A
Which for people listening, it is a extra corporeal blood ozonation and oxygenation.
- [66:28]
B
Yeah.
- [66:28]
A
I believe, where they pull your blood out and they basically ozone it and clean it and then it goes back into your body.
- [66:34]
B
Yeah, yeah. And that I felt I could feel. Now, I don't know if that's from, like, I don't know exactly what that was from, but it felt good. So I did that a couple of times. I've done ozone a lot because I can feel it noticeably afterwards. I feel better. I haven't done. My parents have done stem cells because I was more concerned about their health. I didn't do. I haven't done any stem cells. I haven't done any of the plasma exchanges. I haven't gone. I'm like, aware of all the deeper biohacking things. But, like, I've mostly been pregnant for like three years, so that's really put a. So as soon as I had some money to do that, I was like
- [67:11]
A
sucked out of your body in Tijuana and passed through a filter and. Yeah, they're interesting though. You know, as far as, you know, the concept of EBU pulling something out of your body, filtering it or cleaning it with something like ozone and then putting it back in is kind of like the. The hot topic in, in biohacking and detox right now, especially for people who have like Lyme mold, mycotoxin.
- [67:34]
B
Have you done any that had noticeable effects afterwards?
- [67:37]
A
Yeah. So there's levels. The lowest kind of like, easiest to access level in most states and internationally is a therapeutic plasma exchange, a TPE where they will pull out some plasma. And then typically, because you do pull out some of your body's own products when you do that, they will usually replace the plasma with albumin, which is just basically synthetic albumin and then some type of vitamin and mineral iv. Yeah, because you're basically trying to like build back the blood and that's pretty effective for a lot of people who just want to do like the oil change for the body thing. And then you can also in the state of Texas do young plasma replacements where it's a similar protocol. You get your plasma taken out, but instead of putting albumin and IVs back in, they actually take young human donor plasma and put that back into your body.
- [68:36]
B
Have you done that? That's what Brian Johnson kind of done
- [68:39]
A
that a couple of times. Can you feel it do feel remarkably better. You feel how you would imagine you'd feel if you put an 18 year old's PLAS, like 101 liter bags of 18 year old plasma back into your body. But you know, back to the I'm not a doctor thing, that's not without risk. I mean it is somebody else's biologics. So now kind of like the so. So if you look at young plasma, you, it's like a soup. You've got exosomes, you've got growth factors, you've got stem cells, you've got, you know, all of your normal minerals and biologics and some small peptides and all of that is going into your body, which would make sense that you're going to feel that even more than just getting albumin and minerals and vitamins put back into your body. So it's the difference between like an oil change and what's technically called like parabiosis. Right. Like taking something old out and putting something young back in. But the risk for a lot of people, even though these are pretty screened donors with filtered plasma, is still something that is there because you know, it is somebody else's tissue. The next thing that I'm looking at and there's not a lot of people doing this right now, but it makes sense on paper. I'm actually going to try this tomorrow in Austin, Texas is to get the plasma taken out but put back in like a stem cell exosome soup. Because there's a type of stem cells that are really small. They're called muse cells. And muse cells are known for compared to like a normal, say like umbilical derived stem cell of having a very, very low amount of immune reactions or inflammation, they're much smaller, they travel to the site of injury much more readily and they're kind of like the new thing in stem Cells and then exosomes are basically what they use to signal. So what I'm going to do is get old plasma taken out and then replace that with the albumin and the vitamin IVs and minerals, but then also stem cells and exosomes. And even though I haven't done that yet, that would theoretically be like a way to get the effects of like young plasma replacement replacement without actually using actual human plasma instead of using stem cells and exosomes. And so that's the difference between doing like an oil change for the body via something like EBOO or therapeutic plasma exchange and doing like an actual like anti aging type of hack. That's cool. And then you can also do blood. I did this in with a company called Lumati in Tijuana where they use a filter. It was a filter designed to, to adhere to spike proteins. It's a heparin based filter that's almost like a fly trap for spike protein. And the blood comes out of your body. It's crazy. They actually have a catheter in your jugular, in your neck. And it's got to stand there the whole three days that you're in Mexico. So you're literally like, oh my God. Going getting wheeled in wheelchair from this. Actually pretty nice hospitals in Mexico now. I thought it was just all like tequila and bars and just complete. I thought Tijuana was a pretty dirty place, but there's actually a really nice luxury hotel hospital. People go there for medical tourism now. And so you have this catheter in your neck though for three days. So you're getting wheeled from the hospital over to the hotel back and forth. You, each day you're in the hospital bed for anywhere from three to five hours each day. And it's pulling your blood out, passing it through this filter and then the blood goes back into your body. So it's literally filtering like whole blood. People who have long Covid have seen pretty good results from that. I did it out of just sheer curiosity, just kind of an immersive journalistic stint where I wanted to see what blood filtration was actually like. But then there are other filters. So that one's called the serif filter that they use for spike protein. That's the heparin based filter. They have another one called the marker that's used for microplastics. So it pulls microplastics out. So it's kind of like a different filter for a different issue. And then kind of like the last thing would be something called iron phoresis. And this is something that you'll find a lot more in like European biological medicine. Like Germany is a place where you can do these type of things. There's a clinic called Lanzerhoff there that does this, but that's actually heating up the body. So it's kind of like a combination of hyperthermia and plasma filtration. So they can like filter a lot more plasma at once. They're not putting back in, you know, stem cells, exosomes, young human plasma, or anything like that. But as far as a filtration goes, that's theoretically one of the better ways to. To filter. Just because you're combining plasma filtration with hyperthermia. But I think kind of like the coolest idea is getting old plasma taken out and then replacing that with albumin stem cells and exosomes.
- [73:53]
B
That does sound cool.
- [73:55]
A
Yeah.
- [73:55]
B
And that's more from a longevity standpoint or if you've been exposed to an environmental toxin. Right. To help detox or virus protein.
- [74:06]
A
So antiviral, you know, mold, mycotoxin, Lyme, ebv, some of these things that you might want to pull out of the blood. You could just stop at therapeutic plasma exchange, series of EBOO treatments, iron phoresis or something like that. And then if you wanted to do that. And then also kind of like get the rejuvenation effect or the so called like anti aging effect by putting stuff back in. That's where you do. Yeah, like, you know, people call like the blood boy stuff. Right. Like, like get the actual young stuff put back in or use stem cells or exosomes.
- [74:41]
B
I love that that's a thing that people are. How long has that been around? Because I know it's been like a trope in movies being like, yeah, yeah, give me the children blood.
- [74:50]
A
I mean, ever since the days of the vampire, I guess so centuries. But as far as it being somewhat accessible to us, I think it's been less than a decade. And again, like Texas is the only state where it's actually legal to do the plasma. Yeah.
- [75:10]
B
Wild.
- [75:11]
A
Yeah.
- [75:11]
B
Okay, well, that's interesting. Yeah. My goodness. Okay, before we run out of time on this, this is a really simple question, but what does your morning look like? And. And I want to know your travel hacks, because I heard you travel a lot and I always get walloped when I travel. But like morning routine first.
- [75:32]
A
And it's interesting because the two kind of parallel, because if you have a good morning routine that you can take some semblance of on the road, then it is a little bit of a circadian rhythmicity, health, productivity, energy hack, because you're kind of simulating some of the same things that you're doing at home. So what that looks like is looking at it from more of a standpoint of not specific things that you do, but specific categories that you try and fit in in the morning. So for me, first thing, and I can easily do this on the road, is I pour into myself spiritually. And this is just like the woo woo esoteric stuff. I wake up. I usually put on like a really good. Like, it's typically like a spiritual music track, like whatever, Hillsong or Bethel worship or some old hymn or just some spiritual musician or I do the daily audio Bible. So that does a passage from the Old Testament, the New Testament, then Psalms and Proverbs. That's like the first 20 minutes of my day is. Is just me and the Bible and God and prayer. And typically there's a lot of gratitude porn into that too, just because I'm not starting off with a podcast or an audiobook or opening social media or whatever. So the phone's in airplane mode. I'm tooling around, getting ready for the day, kind of building myself up spiritually. And I finish that with prayer. So whenever all that stuff ends, sometimes I'm in the living room, sometimes I'm outside out of my office by then. But I say a prayer. And it varies from day to day. It's usually just me pouring out my worries, my cares, my anxieties, you know, people that I've told them that I'd pray for. It's just basically my personal time with God. And then I do 15 to 20 minutes of deep tissue work, like arm swinging, bouncing up and down, body twists like Tai chi moves. I have this one whole mashup of different moves that I do. And it's not the same, but I always start my watch and give myself at least 15 minutes just to wake up the whole body. I mean, it's like slapping and foam rolling. And I like this because when I'm traveling, I can get up. I can be tooling around the hotel room, brushing my teeth, putting on, you know, washing my face, putting on product, stretching, whatever, and still listening to songs and listening to the body Bible. So you can do both of those at once. And then I go in the kitchen and I get coffee or tea, and then I do emails combined with red light therapy. So I have these two red light panels at my desk, and I sandwich myself in between these red light panels. And the one in front of me is just low enough to where I can like reach around it and be on my keyboard. So I'm basically getting morning sunlight equivalent, like targeted what's called photobiomodulation on my body for the first 20 minutes. And I'm just standing there naked in between two panels replying to emails. And I have the dorky red light helmet on too. So I've literally got the helmet, the panels, and you feel amazing. There's like this endorphin release and it's way easier than dragging my laptop out into the freezing 40 degree patio to try and catch the some sunrise. And you feel really good afterwards. And during that time, all I'm doing is just looking at the calendar for the day and making the plans for the day. I'm not jumping into deep work or anything like that. When I travel, typically I do the same thing by grabbing my phone and going outside for a walk. And if it's nice, I'm usually like barefoot. Literally I walked 20 minutes this morning, laps around the hotel in the sunshine, barefoot just for the grounding, the earthing, the connection to the planet. And then we kind of like officially start the day as a family at 7am so at 7am we have this big family huddle where everybody meets up in the living room and if it's a nice day, on the back patio and we talk about how everybody slept and what everybody's doing that day. And we, we check in with each other, we ask if anybody has any needs for that day. We talk about who's making what for dinner because we're usually all pitching in, you know, who's taking the cars and where. And it's just like this family meeting that's every single day. And then I read the family something from the Bible and teach them from the Bible and we just work our way through the entire Bible throughout the year. We pray together as a family. And then typically once every couple of weeks we nick all that and we just have a giant dance party for like 10 or 15 minutes where we just play songs, dance. But we always like since the boys were like six years old, we have this big morning family party and we do the same thing at 7pm we like all meet at 7pm right before dinner and just all get together and hang out and go through father son book club and sing a song and pray. And so we have. So that's how I keep myself from being.
- [80:32]
B
I'm not laughing at you. That was like the nicest morning routine. Oh, it's a great morning routine pretty frequently. And that was like by far the nicest morning routine I've ever heard.
- [80:41]
A
And so, so that keeps me from being a workaholic because I know at 7am I gotta be with the family. And then at 7pm I gotta be done with work and ready for our big family party, for a dinner party. And then after we have the family huddle, then I work out. My boys usually out in the gym doing their own routine. We used to work out together and now we're just, you know, one of them's playing rugby, one's playing lacrosse, and we're just kind of doing our own thing. We're all out in the gym together. And then I don't let anything get on my schedule before 10am so no calls, no podcasts, no consults. Not because I don't work until 10am, but I don't want to adhere to anybody else's schedule until 10am so if I've got some extra projects that I want to work on, I time, I'll get up at 4:30 and work until 6:30 and then do the red light and then go do the family huddle. Or if I'm a little tired, I'll sleep until 7 and we'll have the family huddle at 7:30. And then I've got a shorter workout and you know, I'll switch the morning around a little bit. But I never have like a Zoom at 9 or 7.
- [81:44]
B
Yeah, I hate those. And I've moved those too.
- [81:47]
A
Yeah, and you miss out on some stuff. But like, it's worth it to me to, to have like a luxurious morning and then once I do start working, like I'm just like a horse with blinders. And I feel like I can get deep work in because the morning is just like so protected and my body's so dialed. I'm connected to family and I'm just ready to roll, so.
- [82:05]
B
Wow, that was great.
- [82:07]
A
Yeah. And then last thing, last thing. So you asked about travel. I, I do a lot of that except the family huddle part when I travel. So I'm always getting red light, grounding, earthing, movement, prayer.
- [82:16]
B
Bring a red light, what's that? Or you go outside.
- [82:19]
A
I, I typically do the sunlight. I have some little portable red light devices, but it's more like if I get an injury, whatever, I treat my knee playing pickle ball or whatever. But if you look at travel, it's very simple. In the same way that no matter whether you're traveling or you're at home, you have your basic Sleep hygiene principles. Right. Room is cold, room is dark. No stress mean no work in bed. And then sound, use sound to cover up ambient noises. So cold darkness, no stress and some sort of COVID up sound that goes with me on the road. But then the only thing you really need to be familiar with I think to get like 90% of the circadian rhythmicity issues solved when you travel is this term called zeitgebers, which is a German term that means timekeepers. And there are certain things that get your body aligned to a new circadian rhythm much faster. They are light, meaning presence of bright light or even the use of like blue light producing glasses. There's one company called iO1 called Retimer. The company Raw Optics makes lenses that concentrate blue light rather than block blue light. So you want to get blasted with that in the morning. And then I have a little red light headlamp that I use in my hotel room at night to get around like everything's blocked at night. Temperature, super easy keep things cold. I do call the folks at Jasper and try to get them to deliver a portable HEPA air filter to a hotel if I'm in a major city. Yeah, because the air quality is a big one. But that's not really a timekeeper. It's just an extra bonus. But temperature, super cold. And what that means is that cold temperature at night jump starts nighttime sleep drive and warm in the morning. So if you can do sauna, I got in the hot tub this morning. Anything that can get the body warm. Even if you don't normally take a nice long steamy shower, you do that. But you try to get the body hot in the morning and cold at night. And the hot in the morning, cold at night is especially important if you've crossed multiple time zone. So temperature and then the last two are food. If you're normally a breakfast skipper, you would actually want to eat a higher protein breakfast in the time zone of wherever it is that you've traveled to. So I usually like to work out fasted but like I was recently in Germany and I would go down to the breakfast room and have a little bit of egg and I was just having like eggs and sprouts and a little piece of toast. Toast. And then I'd go hit the gym. Just because food is such a powerful driver to jump start the circadian rhythm. And then not eating outside of the normal eating zone of the time frame that you're in unless you're only there for a very short period of time, in which case you keep eating at the normal time zones of your. Where you're going to be back home, because you want to stay on that time zone. So it kind of depends on how long you're going to be where you're at. And then the last time keeper is. Is movement. And that one's pretty easy. Like movement session, typically timed within the first three hours of waking and nothing like three hours leading up to bedtime as far as intense exercise. And that solves, like, 90% of circadian rhythmicity issues for people if they can nail the temperature, the light, the food, and the movement when they travel.
- [85:40]
B
Cool.
- [85:40]
A
Yeah.
- [85:41]
B
Okay.
- [85:41]
A
And the nad patch.
- [85:43]
B
Yes, I'm definitely gonna look into that. Okay, cool. Well, Ben, thank you very much for making time. It's nice to finally meet you in person.
- [85:52]
A
Yeah, it'll be cool to. To introduce you to my audience, too. I'm surprised we've never done a podcast. I don't think you've been on my podcast before, have you?
- [85:59]
B
I don't think so, no.
- [86:01]
A
I've been podcasting for too long. I forget my guess. But I'm pretty sure you have a podcast, so this will be a first. Well, Mikayla Fuller, the carnival expert.
- [86:11]
B
Ben Greenfield, like, OG Biohacker.
- [86:14]
A
Awesome. Cool. Thanks for having me.
- [86:16]
B
Thank you for having me.