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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Diet Coke. You know that moment when you just need to hit pause and refresh. An ice cold Diet Coke isn't just a break. It's your chance to catch your breath and savor a moment that's all about you. Always refreshing, still the same great taste. Diet Coke make time for you time.
- [00:21]
B
It's the musers. The podcast Cowboys Edition Football friends, George Dunham, Bob Sturm Ready to talk Cowboys after a 4422 Cowboys win over the Commanders. They're now 3, 3 and 1 and set the take on the Denver Broncos in the Mile High City this Sunday. That was a little more like it on defense, Bob. And you brought up the point last week. That was a big week for Brian Schottenheimer to get his ship back in order and most complete game of the year for the Cowboys.
- [00:58]
C
Yeah, honestly, the whole thing felt like probably, let's say he was hired in January and so him and the little lady, whoever Mrs. Schottenheimer is, were probably at some vacation home in the springtime imagining the ideal cowboy game day Sunday. Right. And, and I'm guessing that was that because we don't often say this, George. And I'm always tickled when I compare sports. I go across sports and to me the teams that most resemble the Cowboys would be in baseball, the New York Yankees and in hockey, the Toronto Maple Leafs. And the reason is, is because the media is obsessed with those three franchises and the fans are entitled and anything less than championships won't, won't do. And like we said, everything the media talks about starts with three franchises. I say all that to say the Toronto Maple Leafs have a situation at their stadium that reminds me of the Cowboys where they call it the Yacht Club and, and the, the museum and the library and all these things that basically are not very flattering to the Toronto arena is that it's just rich people and they're having their white wine and they don't ever create a home field advantage. And I, I was thinking about that Sunday because I've given that stadium 20 years of grief. I don't like it. I don't like AT&T Stadium at all.
- [02:33]
B
I don't either.
- [02:34]
C
And I don't think it resembles in any way a great football environment. I don't think it encourages noise and sound and home field and, and people losing their minds to help the Cowboys win. I just think it's the opposite of Seattle scene and Green Bay scene and Buffalo scene and all these wonderful home arrowhead, all these home field advantages Partly because it was built for luxury. It was built to extract money from rich people. Let's just say what it is. And on Sunday, I don't know if it was the rich people. I don't know what happened, but that stadium felt like a legitimate home field advantage. And there are days like that, however rare they may be. Georgie. Right. Where you say maybe it's not the stadium's fault. Maybe, maybe there's something more at work here because everybody was losing their mind in that game. And it was really a cool scene from top to bottom.
- [03:29]
B
Well, for the first time this year we saw some defense. Was it dominating? No, but there were some. I sound like Brian Schottenheimer asking the question, then answering it. Were we a good team? No, but. No, they were. They were so much better defensively.
- [03:49]
C
Yes.
- [03:50]
B
I guess we got to put the qualifiers in there. Washington without their top three receivers. That helps. Jayden Daniels gets knocked out third quarter. That certainly helps. But he, he got knocked out of the game because the Cowboys, because of you actually put Shamar James in a position to the pressure. The quarterback with some pressure off the edge. And yeah, there's so many things I want to say about the defense. Let's start off with coverage and it's amazing how a game is analyzed. Now I would say with. Even as recently as five years ago, I didn't keep up with the percentage of man coverage versus zone. I just.
- [04:34]
C
Right.
- [04:35]
B
I just didn't. And.
- [04:36]
C
Right.
- [04:36]
B
We've all been keeping up with that because it's been primarily zoned for the Cowboys. But they, they took a big jump up over 40% with man to man coverage. And Duron Bland is so good at it and he had his moment. But as I also illustrated on X this week, if you have a chance to go to. At George Dunham, I put up a couple of plays of Duron Bland playing the run. Point being, if you play man to man, I think it makes everything better. I think it makes your tackling better. I think it makes your run support better. I just think it, it makes you better as a defense.
- [05:16]
C
Yeah, I don't, I don't disagree. I think you're right. But I would even take it a step further, Georgie, and I would say being multiple is what I think leads to success. And what that means is I'm not playing man or zone as a exclusive idea and I'm not blitzing nor dropping as an exclusive idea. What I am, is I am using the entire playbook and I am trying to use that, that versatility as A weapon, because I may not have traditional weapons. So. So the philosophy would be this, if we wanted to talk a little philosophical football here for a moment, the easiest way to play defense is to have killers on your defense. And so if I could design a hypothetical defense, let. Let's say I would want the Steel Curtain, and I would want L.C. greenwood, and I'd want Mean Joe Green, and I'd like Dwight White, perhaps, and then I'd like some linebackers like Jack Lambert and Jack Ham and, and. And, you know, let's, let's. Let's continue down that line. And then I'd like some defensive backs like Mel Blunt and, And if I could design a defense, maybe that would be the one I'd go with. Or I would take Harvey Martin and put him in there as well, and Randy White and, and. And Cliff Harris and Charlie Waters. And so, you know, there's a ways to do it. If I had killers at every position, that would be the easiest. And by the way, if I did have that many great players on my defense, then it really doesn't matter what I scheme up. I can just say, go play football and go kill the guy in front of you. And that works. And so to simplify it, if I can have 11 Micah Parsons, or maybe Micah on one side and DeMarcus Ware on the other, then my scheme doesn't matter as much. But if I don't have the killers, if I don't have guys who are exceptional at every position or really at any position, well, then now I need to create my own problems. And for that I need to make sure I find ways, Georgie. To confuse my opponent. And I think that's what happened. So I went back, and I'm sure you did as well, but I just looked at by down, and that's really where teams get predictable, is by down, they play safe on first and second, and then on third they play man and they blitz. And it's. It's very predictable. It happens all over the league. You know, the zone is huge on first down, like 80% huge on second down, probably 70%. But then on third down, man jumps over 50% and that becomes predominant. And same with pressure calls. So The Cowboys on first down Sunday were 50, 50 on first down, and they were 50, 50 on second down. And then on third down, where you generally play more, man, they actually played more zone. And so what they're trying to do is confuse Jaden Daniels and Cliff Kingsbury. And there are a couple times, and I know you saw them, where it's third and eight or third and nine. And the Cowboys know that Cliff Kingsbury knows that they're going to play man, and so they don't play man. And they're running. Washington ran mesh. I'm trying to remember what play it was, but they ran mesh late in the first half on a third and long. And mesh, of course is the Mike Leach Texas Tech, you know, hell mummy play where you're basically a man beater by taking two guys and crossing them and the traffic knocks a defender off his man and now you have a guy running free.
- [09:11]
B
Is this the one that went incomplete in the flat?
- [09:14]
C
No, no, this is the one where actually they're trying to pick Bland, but Bland's not moving because it's zone. And so then he tackles the guy short of the sticks.
- [09:21]
B
Gotcha. Okay.
- [09:22]
C
Yeah. And so that's the beauty of it is they're trying to pick a guy who isn't actually chasing and then he just, you know, kind of enjoys it. It's okay. It's a 257 to go in the first quarter, it looks like.
- [09:37]
B
Yeah, I put up that play as an example of how well Bland played as a tackler. Yeah, he also stopped the two point conversion, which was a heck of a play, really. Just a. Just a great game, I thought for Bland.
- [09:50]
C
Yeah, Bland was awesome. And let's see, there's one more in here as I look through the film. Oh, well, the point is bl to me, Bland is one of your best defensive players. I think his paycheck reflects that now. And for me, and I think I've said this in past episodes, Georgie, but I want him in the slot and I want him in the slot because I want him near the action. And I think as a outside corner, Duron Bland would be just a guy, a Jag. And that's because his size is limited. And I just think I outside the numbers, I want a bigger guy and I want a more physical guy than Duron Bland. But if I can get him in as a slot now he's near the action, he can help and run support. He can blitz. He can also rally to the ball. He can do so many things. And so Bland played way more slot this week than we've seen.
- [10:51]
B
That's where he was on the two point conversion.
- [10:53]
C
That's exactly where he was. And that's where he was most of the day. Now, obviously you only have a slot if you play nickel. And so you have to decide, would I rather have a slot out there or would I rather Have a third linebacker and the Cowboys are going back and forth and honestly, look, let's, let's not get it twisted. If generally a slot corner is a sub package guy, meaning he doesn't play every down, Bland needs to play every down. And so if I only have two corners out there, he does need to play on the outside. So I'm not saying all the time. I'm simply saying when you switch to nickel, which is, which is, you know, 75% of the snaps in the NFL these days, then Bland needs to move inside. And then you bring a guy like Kair Elam and say, okay, now you play outside the numbers on these specific downs and, and now you're cooking. So, so there's a lot of good here. But for me, and I know this is a really long statement and I, I definitely want to get your response on it. I, I think man helps, but I think more than anything just being more unpredictable on what you're going to do is the answer for the Cowboys.
- [12:01]
B
Well, I think you're right about that. And by saying, by talking about the man concept, I just think they were right around where 15% for the season and went up to over 40. That's a big jump. That is huge. That's a big jump. And a light just went off to something you said. And this I think goes to the guy that we spend a lot of time talking about. But I just, I'm going to quit apologizing about it. Brian Schottenheimer has done a wonderful job as the head coach of this team. You may say, well, three, three and one.
- [12:37]
C
Yeah.
- [12:37]
B
But he's had fires to put out, he's had injuries. It's his first time as a head coach. And what you said about the defense being more balanced, to me it verifies his meetings with the defense last week and sitting down with Matt Eber flutes and saying, you know, on offense we try to keep the defense guessing what we're doing. You know, why don't we be more balanced defensively so we keep that quarterback guessing. And that's the point that you brought up. And you know, I talked to and, and this isn't necessarily inside information. This is just reading between the lines of hearing Schottenheimer's press conferences.
- [13:27]
C
Yes.
- [13:27]
B
Last week of saying, okay, we got to find solutions and you know, whatever that is. And there seemed to be a confidence in what he was saying. Like, I don't know, maybe I'm just buying into him way too much.
- [13:39]
C
But I, I don't think you are.
- [13:41]
B
I Think Schottenheimer had a lot to do with the defensive improvement against Washington, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
- [13:49]
C
I very much agree with you. I think that's absolutely the case. That those meetings. And by the way, some of us wondered if those meetings were about relieving Eber Fluss of his job. And that's the reality of professional football. I don't know that it's the reality with the Cowboys. They don't really make big changes in season, especially in October. But. But I. I think you got to get together. And it sounded like by the time he spoke to the media on Tuesday, they had already gotten together. So maybe Monday they get back from Charlotte and they say, okay, we need to have a meeting. You know, meetings of the mind. And who knows? Is Will McClay in there? Is Jerry and Stephen in there? I don't know. But I do know that Brian Schottenheimer has a big moment where he has to wander to the other side of the building and to put his hands into defense, because it all goes back to him. You're the head coach, and this is under your purview, whether you consider yourself an offensive guy or not. You know, you can. You can hire a defensive guy and then just walk away and say, I trust him no matter what. Which is the old Wade Phillips thing, although Wade did not even hire Jason Garrett. But I do remember a couple times where in a press conference, Wade Phillips pretty much said, why are you asking me about the offense? Well, because you're the head coach, dude. You know, because.
- [15:16]
B
Yeah, but I don't coach offense.
- [15:18]
C
I know, but you are. We have to have somebody in charge of this thing. Otherwise, you know, we pull back the curtain and just see it's Jerry Jones actually coaching this team, which. Which is its own episode, and we'll avoid it for this day. But totally agree with you. This is Brian Schottenheimer. Eber Fluss does feel like a guy who believes in one way to play defense, only because his entire dossier says that. And so to suggest that he would suddenly flip to, you know What? Let's go 5050 here and see what happens. Doesn't sound like something he would elect to do, but more like something he was told to do or. Or con or however you want to position it. And from there, I just think they did a great job of going back and forth and being unpredictable because these offensive minds in this league are too freaking smart. And so if you are going to do something, 90% of the time, they're going to design things that are built to beat that tendency and you never cross them up and they pick you apart over and over again. Because why? You're too darn predictable. Why does every talking head in football say, I want to see adjustments and more creativity? Because that is shorthand for don't be so doggone predictable. You guys are getting killed that way. So if the Cowboys win away, and yes, there are some other mitigating circumstances, Denver will have their guys, their weapons, and more importantly, Denver will have this game to study to see that they have to be ready for the Cowboys not to be so darn predictable. So now this is the cat and mouse week to week game in our wonderful league where you can only ambush the league one time and the Cowboys just use that to save their season. That was a great time to use this ambush. But don't expect Denver and don't expect Arizona to be shocked if you start rolling out a lot more man coverage. They might be ready for it and they might have a plan to basically, you know, ruin you again because they now are ready for what you're going to do. But yes, the injury to Jaden Daniels is a direct result of the Cowboys being unpredictable because there wasn't a second where Jaden thought Shemar James was about to blitz right through that B gap. And Chris Paul, their left guard, had no idea he was on osa and by the time he turned around, it was too late. And then the very next series you might recall was the pick six. And that was Chris Paul, the left guard again. And he sees Shemar James again, but this time she mar is the decoy. And OSA comes right through the A gap because Chris Paul is too worried about Shemar James. And now OSA comes in untouched and is chasing Mariota into a big circle. And then he doesn't see Bland in the in the flat and it's a pick six other way. So this is is how you call a defense, in my opinion.
- [18:37]
B
Yeah. Amen to that. And before we talk about some more guys, outside of Duron Bland, who, yes, had a really good game defensively, let's talk about who wasn't there. And always preface it by saying, I'm not picking on the guy, but he's had a tough week. Trayvon Diggs. Something happened at his house. He was not available to play. He was in concussion protocol. The Cowboys won't say what it is. I have talked to a few sources who say they've about had it with him and that it's going to be one long Goodbye this year with the Cowboys, who in digs. Who. I think they will release him at the end of the season if they don't trade him before the November 4 deadline. We can talk about that. But I have been banging the drum and I hate to be this guy, okay. But I've been. As you've heard on this podcast, I've said I think they're. The first thing I do in the secondary is get Trayvon Diggs off the field. I would just get him off the field. He's not. He's not buying into whatever it is they're trying to do when he. When he is out there, whether it's man or zone, he's not very good. There is the whole thing with him against the. Something's going on with him mentally right now because of the feud with the team over where he works out and how he works out and how he rehabs an injury and all that. I think it's more than a coincidence that he's not out there and they have their best defensive game in the secondary. There's a lot of other things that went into it. I don't want to make it that simple. But. But man, and I love this guy. When he came out because he's from Alabama, he had 11 interceptions his second year. But injuries have set in. Doubt has set in with this guy. I don't know what's going. Do you have any idea what's going on with Trayvon Diggs?
- [20:37]
C
Well, I certainly don't with what went on last week, but I would like to say as a. As a general thought about Trayvon Diggs is I, I'm a big fan, but this organization. Two things. This organization has a real weird way of dealing with guys once they pay them the big ticket. Okay, so. So let's. We can draw it wherever, but let's say anything. $50 million or bigger for total contract value, the team pays these guys begrudgingly. And. And then it seems like no matter what, you have to prepare if the. If the Cowboys are going to pay you. With the possible exception of like Zach Martin and Tyron Smith, who just never said anything to anybody and just went about their business. But with the exception of them, when you get a big ticket from these guys, the Cowboys ownership family, they instantly start taking shots at you publicly. This is dez, this is Zeke. This is. You just go right down the list. Obviously, Micah didn't even get the big ticket and they started taking shots at him already. So. So there's something about. They'll pay you, but they're not going to like it, and they're instantly going to blame you on why this team can't win. The exception, of course, is you could be Dak, and you could almost seem like you're not going to let that bother you. But Dak, I think, is the exception. These professional athletes all have incredible egos and they, by the way, that's not a bad thing in professional sports. If you don't believe in yourself, nobody else will. And so these guys get to where they are because they are very narcissistic, but also very driven to be the best in the world at what they do. That's hard, man. And so when they finally get paid, they feel like they've earned it. And the team kicks and screams and finally cuts the check, but then they just. Stephen and Jerry are interviewed so much and they just can't help themselves about how pissy they get and how they're like, this guy better be perfect now that we're paying him. And they don't, they don't see it as they earned it. They see it as they, they cornered us, made us pay them, and so now we're going to take shots at them. And I think Trayvon is one of these athletes that's very online. He hears very carefully. He. He hears what they say about him, and I think it makes him crazy. And so the off season workout thing, I think is his way of getting back at them. And that makes them more mad and it just feeds itself and it goes on into this never ending thing. The other thing, and I think this is where following the whole league would really help people. I'm starting to feel like paying corners is a, is, is a rough thing. It's almost like paying running backs. Draft them, get those five years and then maybe let them go and draft another one. Because I think most of the big corners that get paid, I don't think the teams are happy with that big $100 million contract. And I speak as Green Bay guy with Jair Alexander, who was great, got paid, deserved to get paid, but then the second he got paid, they were instantly disappointed. And then Trayvon Diggs is pretty much the same general age. And I just look around the league at the guys who pay their corners. There's a few that are very happy they did, but I think most of them are like, man, that second contract did not work out for the team at all by giving a corner $20 million. So I think maybe like running back, it's a wear and tear thing, but, but More than anything, I just don't know that you can justify that much money in the cornerback position for most guys, let's say age 26 to 30, as much as you can age 22 to 26. So I know that's way more than. I know it's way more than you asked. But. But as far as him being on the field, I. I just have to go with meritocracy, Georgie. And I would say he's never not going to be one of my best two corners on this roster. I mean, that's. I think it's crazy to say Triqueasy Bridges or Kair Elam give me a better chance to win than Trayvon Diggs. I don't think.
- [25:15]
B
Ready out of this conversation.
- [25:17]
C
Yeah, Ready. Steward. I think he's also. I mean, there are reasons, like these guys were on the street and, And Trayvon Diggs does get the big ticket. And I realize he's not a perfect player. None of them are. And he doesn't love physical corner play. He's a ball hawk. But, you know, I would welcome him back. But I also concede to you that this organization is weird about that. He's a friend of Micah. And the second. The second Stephen started bellyaching about Trayvon not working out in Dallas, we kind of knew that this was his last year in Dallas. And by the way, the player also knew that. And so it just puts everybody in a weird spot. And maybe once you decide this is his last year, maybe that's the time you start trading him for a fifth or a sixth. I don't know. There's a. You know what? There's a lot of personnel stories. And if we do have a minute, I do think it's worth mentioning. Jadevian Clowney was great.
- [26:15]
B
Yeah. I was about to say let's talk about guys who, okay, did play well on defense. And Jadevion Clown is at the top of my list. To me, he looked different on Sunday than he had previously in a Cowboys uniform.
- [26:28]
C
Yeah. And honestly, I'll say it was easily Kenneth Murray's best game.
- [26:31]
B
Yep.
- [26:32]
C
Not per. Not perfect. Not even close to perfect, but easily his best game. And Donovan as a raku. Not perfect.
- [26:40]
B
Easily his best first sack and had pressure and. Yeah.
- [26:44]
C
So, I mean, here's. Here's. I guess where I net out on this, Georgie, is I think. I think it comes back to the splash play concept. And if people read my stuff or if you just, you know, know the term splash play on defense, it just means making a positive defensive play. So tackle for loss, pass batted down, past defended of course, interceptions and sacks. But run stuffs things of that n positive defensive plays just win this down and what the Cowboys are is a defense that is bad. There's no nice way to say it, they're 32nd in just about every stat and they're bad. But they're also a team that makes no splash plays and they don't get takeaways and they don't get sacks and they don't get tackles for loss. And that's obviously death. You gotta be one or the other. So either win more downs than you lose or get me five or ten splash moments in the game where you can sort of end possessions. And by the way, another splash play is just draw a holding penalty because holding penalties are drive killers too.
- [28:02]
B
Sure.
- [28:02]
C
So. So when I looked at Sunday, I see four sacks, I see tackles for loss, I see two takeaways that are results of these splash plays. So what they did on Sunday was not perfect defensively, but it was filled with positive defensive moments that can erase a lot of the negative overall defensive issues. And so more of that please. Especially when you go on the road where it's a lot more difficult to do that.
- [28:35]
B
It is. And yes, it was a step forward for the defense. The next step is to put something together consistently over several weeks. And next up Denver. We'll talk more about the Broncos a little bit later, but let's talk about some of those moments for an offense that is historically great for this Cowboys team when the Musers the Podcast Cowboys Edition continues next.
- [29:04]
D
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- [29:33]
B
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- [31:56]
C
Yeah. And I'd like to go back to the coaching. I'd like to say that I do believe that Schottenheimer and him are just humming along right now, and I think it's credit to both because we're seeing technically sound quarterback play at a level that is even above where he was with Mike McCarthy, which, by the way, was far above where he was with Jason Garrett. And so I guess what we're seeing, George, is a guy going from being an okay quarterback to a very good one and now to an expert. And so he's made these jumps over the course of his career and it's very linear, it's very easy to follow. If you just look at the first 50 starts of a guy's career, the second 50 and now the third 50. I mean, we are seeing a guy, and I said this a couple weeks ago, but we're seeing a guy hit the 10,000 hour rule of expertise in life. And Dak knows what he's looking at and he's comfortable in what he can get away with and what he can't get away with. And now what we're seeing is not only the playmaking, which I do think we saw with McCarthy, but now we're seeing the mistakes are disappearing. And that's not just interceptions, although they have disappeared, but it's also. He doesn't take sacks. We are looking at a guy who in the last month has taken three sacks, three in a month in the National Football League.
- [33:35]
B
I mean, amazing.
- [33:36]
C
That is crazy. So you can't sack them. Which, by the way, what quarterbacks do, you know, through the years were impossible to sack? Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, what did we consider them? Absolute experts on how the position is played. Like they are their best pass protector, right? Yeah, they are their best, you know, every. That they transcend what quarterbacking is because honestly, for years it's unfair to hold other people to their standard because they're that good. And, man, I dare say Dak is. Is at least entering that neighborhood. And. And it's. It's a pleasure, man. When. When him and CD had that mailbox play, which was, you know, ultimately a 74 yard or 76 yard touchdown, whichever it was, was that not this almost.
- [34:34]
B
The same scenario as the Philly game? That did not work. It was a little bit. It was a different formation, but it was almost the same type of thing. Remember we talked about that in week one. It was one of CDs drops.
- [34:47]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:48]
B
And in here, he was open. And you're thinking, okay, I'm going to go over the top. But I think they've got it between them now that that throw, it's going to be. You adjust to it on your own. It's going to be hanging out there, right over the middle of the field. Go get it. And in cd.
- [35:05]
C
And for CD to be gone a month and to come back and to do that in the first quarter, I mean. Yeah, golly, that's. Yeah, that's what you dream of. And I remember the conversations. Do you remember when they went to Lambeau for McCarthy's return to Lambeau? And there was that. It was a real frustrating CD Lamb game with Dak. And we were just like, why? How long do these guys need to play together before they're on the same page? Like, this is ridiculous. Well, we're clearly there and we've been there for a while where it feels like those two guys read each other's mind. And I would encourage people to go back. Schottenheimer called it the mailbox play, which I love, because the first time I heard the mailbox was J.T. o' Sullivan doing that, where it's the arm of a mailbox that goes up to let people know you have mail. And when a receiver raises his arm, he knows that you've got to throw it here now. And CD, the mailbox arm goes up at I think the 37 yard line, which means it's only 11 yards from the line of scrimmage. And so that pass, do you remember how far the pass went? Was it like a 40 yard pass? I forget what it was.
- [36:20]
B
Yeah, probably. Yeah.
- [36:22]
C
But CD Is telling him within three strides, oh, my gosh, we've got the coverage that is about to be a touchdown. And. And that moment, that arm in the air catches Daxai and they have to act quickly. And if you go back and look at the end zone view, Dak has to throw a fastball like that ball cannot hang in the air. That ball has to get there on a, on a freaking, you know, on a clothesline level. Like it can't. If it hangs in there, those defensive backs can rally. So he tries to throw a 40 yard fastball and it does get there. And of course the two defenders run into each other. But that's, that's expertise. That's. That's what it looks like. And then for, you know, honestly, if you look at that play and the route combinations, maybe that's what reminds you of Philadelphia, is it really doesn't make.
- [37:22]
B
Any sense because he throws it just as close to Pickens as he does Lamb.
- [37:27]
C
Almost, yes, pick Pickens. That route combination is not real. So I'm going to assume, as you do, that Lamb just started playing street ball and said, you know, I'm headed to the post and that can't be his route because it doesn't make sense with Pickens. But that's beautiful. That's why this sport is human chess. It's just beautiful.
- [37:52]
B
Yeah. And as I was mentioning, it's historic. And I had to read this three different times just to make sure I was reading this right. Okay, stay with me. Dallas has recorded at least one takeaway with zero giveaways in each of its last four games. The longest such streak in franchise history. Are you kidding me?
- [38:12]
C
Wow.
- [38:13]
B
The same franchise that had Troy Aikman, Tony Romo, Roger Stallback, Don Meredith, they never had a four game stretch where they. He did not turn it over. And the defense had at least one takeaway for Four straight games.
- [38:30]
C
Well, I will. I will say this. Now. People get upset when we compare eras because they feel like it's a personal affront to our childhood heroes. And I think that that's a fair statement. Just because, man, no stat has changed like turnovers and that.
- [38:55]
B
So.
- [38:55]
C
So the idea that you can go a month in the NFL without a single turnover, that I think that's remarkable in 2025, but I would also say it's impossible in 1975. Yeah, yeah. No, this week in the 1975 Cowboys, they lose at home to the Packers. 1917. And the Cowboys turned the ball over five times. And. And in 1975, their defense is getting about four turnovers a game. Yeah, and. And I guess what I'm saying is they played shorter seasons, but had about three times as many giveaways and takeaways every year.
- [39:38]
B
Okay, but what about the modern game, though? I mean, right. Come on. Romo didn't have a stretch like that. Aikman didn't have a stretch like that. And they were very careful with the ball sometimes.
- [39:47]
C
That's true. That's true. And we should look it up, see what the record is for most games without a turnover in Cowboys history. But I bet you four games is getting close because that's incredible. The ball security, and then Georgie, to make it crazier. The ball security while scoring 40 points. That's nuts. So I told you. I told you a month ago when we did the. The. The Packer Post game, the 40, 40 tie, that it was the 14th time in Cowboys history. They had 4,400 yards and zero giveaways. The 14th time. Well, now this is the 15th time they've done it again. 40 points, 400 yards of offense, zero giveaways. The 15th time. And again, people don't think this is real, but every quarterback in Cowboy history combined has done it six times, and Dak has now done it nine times.
- [40:51]
B
Wow. Okay.
- [40:52]
C
That is so crazy.
- [40:54]
B
Just ridiculous. And as is this. And this is right along those lines. Dak Prescott is now the sixth player in NFL history to have at least three touchdown passes without an interception in four consecutive games. Russell Wilson in 2015 did it five straight games. Drew Brees did it four straight games in 2019. Aaron Rodgers did it four straight times in 2014. Peyton Manning for from two 2013 to 2014, and Tom Brady had four straight in 2007. That's it in the history of this league.
- [41:38]
C
Okay, off the top of my head, I think every one of those guys went to a championship game that year.
- [41:45]
B
See 2007 Patriots lost to the Giants in the Super Bowl.
- [41:52]
C
Yep.
- [41:56]
B
Breeze in 2019. That was their year, right? Oh, wait, no, that was maybe. Did they go in championship game maybe?
- [42:05]
C
Yeah. Well, when they lost to the Rams, that might have been 18. Maybe I'm wrong.
- [42:10]
B
Rogers and 14, though, was that NFC championship game.
- [42:13]
C
That's when they. They won the Des Catch game and then lost in Seattle.
- [42:17]
B
And I'm sure Manning lost to. Yeah, to New England in 2013 or 14. Or maybe that was one of the year the Colts went. I don't know.
- [42:27]
C
That would be Broncos Manning and.
- [42:29]
B
Oh, that was Broncos Manning.
- [42:31]
C
Oh, and they. They definitely went places.
- [42:33]
B
Yes, they did. They went to the Super Bowl.
- [42:36]
C
Yeah. And then they might have lost in the championship game the next year. I'm trying to remember the point. The point to my provocative response there that those teams, while I went to the final four, is where should we be on getting this offense help? Because maybe that's the takeaway from Sunday is that this offense is good enough to contend for a championship right now. Yeah, like, I. I don't know. The window. I do know in professional sports and specifically professional football, the windows are way smaller than we think they are. And I would also say to that that George Pickens and Javante Williams are on expiring deals. I'd like to think they're both done by dinner tonight, but let's not kid ourselves. This is the Cowboys. They don't do deals quickly or easily. George Pickens is going to be very expensive. Although I would use the franchise tag for this opportunity, I think even though that's expensive and it actually makes me mad about the Mica trade again, even though I probably need to let that go. Is that the reason I don't trade mica? Well, there's 10 reasons. But. But the reason here for this conversation is I had 2025 where I did have Micah under contract. I did have George Pickens under contract. I did. I didn't know Pickens was going to be this good. I didn't know Javante Williams was going to be this good. But now as I sit here after seven weeks, I could have had Micah this year without paying him. I don't believe he was ever going to sit out a whole season. I don't think anybody believes that. And I think he might have been grumpy. And so maybe the argument is I just don't want Micah around here as a new coach, is trying to set his culture and all that. Okay, okay, that's fine. But. But this defense needs. If you were to, like, write out the description of what this defense needs, they need a Micah Parsons. So I don't do that trade. But now that trade's done, and I have an offense that at least at this moment, looks like they can beat anybody on their schedule because this offense is so freaking good. So do I owe it to my quarterback and this offense to roll some dice in the next 10 days or two weeks to try to do a deal before the deadline that gives my defense a little more ammunition?
- [45:17]
B
Well, and we could have started there with this whole podcast today. Cowboys Ed, because the Max Crosby thing was everywhere. And then it got cold Water kind of doused the story earlier this week. And I went back and forth on it because, like you, I thought, well, man, yeah, maybe if this offense is this good, maybe you. You go out and you make a deal like that, you give up part of the capital that you got in the mic @Parsons trademark. But then I just. And this is the problem with the last 30 years. You start feeling yourself fishtailing with changing philosophy every two months. And now let's stick to our guns. I think it's a really good question. I think you can make a case for both sides of. No, let's keep her powder dry. Let's figure it out this off season. Let's not just blow it all on the 2025 season. But these numbers we've been reading you, if this offense is historically that good, that great, maybe you do go out and you get somebody like Crosby or whoever the Miami Dolphins defender is that they don't want. You know, I don't know. Maybe.
- [46:37]
C
Yeah, I don't know either. Jalen Phillips would be the guy in Miami that I would look at, but I think he needs a deal. And Jermaine Johnson in New York, and he needs. Needs a deal. And Trey Hendrickson, and he needs a deal. And the reason Max Crosby is extra attractive is one, he's a Metroplex guy who I do believe is a guy who wants to play here. I do believe that. I believe he said that much a few times that he would love to play for the Cowboys. Now, a lot of people say that, but also because he signed for, like, five more years, and I do think five years is. Is a pretty appealing thing because I know exactly what he's going to require. And Trey Hendrickson might be more, and he's older and all these things. So Crosby is a unique, specific player that I don't just move to who else is on the list? I don't just want to sign anybody or trade anybody because it would cost a first. And, and more than anything, I don't think Max Crosby is actually available. I think the Raiders would be nuts to trade him. I do think he's a heart and soul guy. I do think he's a leader of men in his own crazy way, and I think people would follow him on that defense and I don't mind that at all. And I don't think Micah was honestly a leader of men and I think, I think that's fine. So just overall, when I look at those guys, I, I'm not really compelled to move very hard in any other direction unless it's super cheap. And who cares if it's an expiring deal on Jalen Phillips and you know, would you. But I've already given away my third and I've given away two fourths in the last couple years and I think my roster could use those middle. So, you know, there's a lot of ways to look at this. I think Max Crosby would be enough to stop traffic and say a first and a third and let's go. Because like I said, it's not a short term deal. It's a part of your defense that you're building around and I think he'd be great here. I don't know that there's another Max Crosby on the list that compels me to get crazy.
- [49:00]
B
Okay, fair enough. It did make you think though, this week. And oh yeah, and there may be a deal out there for Dallas before November 4th that makes some sense and won't be that expensive and at the same time could help this defense either. The linebacker, defensive line position. It'll be interesting to see what the Cowboys do there. It'll also be interesting to see what they do this week in Denver, a place they haven't won since 1992. Let's talk about that next.
- [49:33]
E
Thursday Night Football is on and it's only on Prime Video.
- [49:37]
B
That's going to be fun.
- [49:39]
E
This week, the Minnesota Vikings head west to face the Los Angeles Chargers.
- [49:43]
C
They'll take that all day.
- [49:45]
E
Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with Football's Best Party TNF tonight presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member. Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. It's the Vikings and the Charger mergers. Thursday at 7pm Eastern only on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for teachers.
- [50:04]
F
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move, having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [50:34]
B
It's the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition. It's George and Bob, your football friends. So can the Cowboys win two games in a row, Bob? Can they put something together? Tough test this week. The 5 and 2 Broncos. If you think the Cowboys have played crazy games, the Broncos and Giants just played the craziest game so far this year in the NFL. I would say it's crazier than 40. 40.
- [50:59]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [51:01]
B
When you score 33 points in the fourth quarter after getting shut out in the first three.
- [51:05]
C
Did you go back and watch that?
- [51:07]
B
I watched a lot of the second half. I've not seen the first half, but I saw most of the comeback.
- [51:13]
C
Okay, the fourth quarter, honestly, I recommend to anybody who has access to it, and I hope they put it on YouTube for everybody or NFL Network replays or something. If you have the means, you owe it to yourself as a sports fan to watch every moment of that fourth quarter. And the TV copy will be fine. In fact, I prefer the TV copy. Unless you're a sicko and just watch. Just watch two teams you don't really care about just play the most ridiculous fourth quarter in NFL history. There can't be anything crazier than that, George. From the. From the first snap of the fourth quarter, which I think might have been that. That deflected touchdown for the Broncos, and then the Giants have a deflected touchdown. There's missed extra points and there's weird turnovers and there are so many crazy things. And as you're watching it, but you're. You're going to see, I think it's 26 to 7 with five minutes to go, and you're going to say, how in the name of freaking Vince Lombardi does the. Do the Broncos get to 33 in regulation?
- [52:25]
B
It's. It's. Yeah, it makes no sense.
- [52:28]
C
The craziest game ever. So my takeaway from that is Giants.
- [52:33]
B
Invent ways to lose games. Number one.
- [52:36]
C
Yes, the Giants invent ways to lose games. But maybe the Broncos will be so emotionally exhausted. That. And also for fighting with Russell Wilson on Twitter and all the things that have gone on this week, maybe the Cowboys can tiptoe into Denver, a place they never play. Well, never. And, and, and, and actually find some success.
- [52:56]
B
Okay, here's some final scores from through the years. 2017, Denver 4217. And these are, you know, played in The Mile High City. 1710 and. Oh, nine. You remember anything about that? I don't know.
- [53:11]
C
Oh, well, hold on. Seventeen. Yes, I do. There was, I need to look this up. But there was a chaotic play in the end zone where, where the cow Cowboys, I think were trying to tie that game. That was, that was right in Jason Garrett. That was the Miles Austin breakout year. So, so I remember something crazy was happening that got us all worked up on the station, but it has been a while. Sorry.
- [53:37]
B
Okay. 98. They played there with Chan Galey and got beat 42 to 23. And the last time they won was when? December of 92. So the 92 Cowboys, the team that, that got there.
- [53:53]
C
Yeah.
- [53:53]
B
And, and started the run in the 90s, won 3,127. And that was the game where at halftime Jimmy Johnson famously challenged Charles Haley. And I think they had it out in the locker room or something crazy like that. I don't know. It was. But that was the last time. 1992 is the last time they have won there in Denver as one seven straight in this series, including 5148 in that crazy game back in 2013 at AT&T Stadium. Were both quarterbacks through for more than 400 yards?
- [54:31]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [54:32]
B
Insane.
- [54:33]
C
1 5148.
- [54:35]
B
I like BO Nicks. I like their defense that leads the league in sacks with 34. That, that quick passing game for the Cowboys and really good running game is going to be put to the test. But I saw some of the things the Giants did and I thought, but, well, shoot, the Cowboys can do most if not all of that.
- [54:55]
C
Right? Right. Yeah. Again, imagine a game where you have 0 points entering the fourth quarter and you have a 33 point fourth quarter. I just, I'm stuck on that one. And just as I'm reviewing my notes from 2009 because for some reason I still have them. But the Cowboys ended that game at the Broncos three yard line and had two shots to get it in, but were unable to do so. And so that was at a point where we're all mad at Tony Romo for everything. And it was, it was a long time ago. But, but we, we've, we've. We've done some living, George, since then. Yeah.
- [55:39]
B
So.
- [55:39]
C
So when I look at this matchup, to me this is a really, really great opportunity for the offense to have A game. And. And I know we asked them to have a game every week and to carry this thing and to score 10 points a quarter to keep the Cowboys in games. I don't know that I am terribly frightened by the Broncos offense. Like, they're fine. They're good. They obviously have playmakers, and Sutton and Mims on the outside and. And Knicks is fine. And, you know, there's. There's. There's something there. But really the story here is the Broncos defense in that stadium. They're awesome. They're absolutely awesome. And they're names that people have to kind of be draft nerds to get obsessed with. And Nick Benito and Zach Allen. Zach Allen might. Maybe I say this every week, I don't know, but Zach Allen might be the best player in the league nobody talks about. He's so good. Okay, interior defensive lineman from, I think, Boston College, if I'm not mistaken. But he was with the Arizona Cardinals for a while, and. And then the Broncos, I think, got him as a free agent. And he is a dude not quite J.J. watt, but maybe a poor man's J.J. watt. And I think they were teammates in Arizona at the start of his career and at the end of JJ's career. So that's a lot of information you didn't ask for. But. But yeah, I mean, their defense from front to back is. Is loaded. And, And I really think that overall, that's the matchup and they got that. They got that incomplete chant up there after, you know, where the. The crowd all yells in complete and the place goes nuts and they're at altitude and, you know, they got certain out there and huanga, the former 49ers safety, is running around doing stuff and they just. Honestly, it's not even the personnel, though, Georgie, because as long as I remember. And this goes across the street to Mile High Stadium to. The Broncos have built a Orange Crush defense. It could be Mecklenburg and Tom Jackson for all I know. It could. You know, it could.
- [58:02]
B
Charming could go.
- [58:03]
C
So could go back decades. But when you go to their place, they put pressure on your offense and they build like a. A confusing sense of timing, if that makes sense, where you feel sped up and you feel panicky even though you have time. So this is going to test Dax composure. This is going to test your running game. Maybe it's the Javante Williams revenge game, but this is a really, really good test for your defense to. Or for your offense to show out. I think America will be watching to see. Well, let's see if that Cowboys offense Is all that. And the Broncos will be a little. A little irritated that they lit Jackson dart, you know, put 32 up against them. I think. I think this is a Cowboys offense, Broncos defense. I can't wait. Let's get it on. That should be awesome.
- [59:02]
B
Well, you'll be happy to know that the Broncos will be wearing their old orange that they were Super Bowl 12 against the Cowboys. And for those who've just started following Bob, he's got a Super bowl trick. Super Bowl 12. What was the final score, Bob?
- [59:18]
C
That was 27 to 10, right?
- [59:20]
B
Very, very good. MVP.
- [59:24]
C
That was our co. MVPs, right?
- [59:26]
B
VPs. Very good.
- [59:28]
C
Harvey and Randy.
- [59:29]
B
Randy White and Harvey Martin. Yeah. How about that? The COVID of Sports Illustrated said, yippee. As those two were celebrating together. And I told the story to you before, but living in Wheaton, Illinois, as a longtime Cowboys fan, all of four years or so, because I think I was in seventh grade, I asked my mom if she had an old bed sheet and she said I could use it. And I spray painted Dallas Cowboys world Champions and hung it on our garage. That was the first world championship banner that went up for the Cowboys that year. And I, the next day on Monday, wore it on Tuesday to Edison Junior High. I got a gray shirt and had lettering orange crusher and wore that to school.
- [60:22]
C
All right. So one thing about Super Bowl 12 I would like to ask you about because I consider you the expert on this.
- [60:30]
B
Oh, gosh.
- [60:31]
C
Would this be the like if you had to pick one Butch Johnson celebration? Is this the California quake with Texas trimming on it? Is this the one?
- [60:45]
B
Yeah, it's so great. And would that. Would that be a catch today? The deep post to Butch Johnson.
- [60:55]
C
They would not.
- [60:55]
B
He barely, barely had any sort of possession of it and then lost. I remember as a kid thinking, oh, my God, he fumbled it. But he was in the end zone, but he never really had it.
- [61:08]
C
Extremely liberal officiating back then. Yeah.
- [61:12]
B
Was kind of a strange call. But. But all the strange things that happened to the Cowboys in the 70s, they deserved at least something to go their way. And it did that day as they just pounded the Broncos offense. I think the Broncos offense had eight turnovers and. Yeah, yeah, eight turnovers. Yeah. And only eight completions. Norris Weiss and the former Cowboy.
- [61:44]
C
Help me out.
- [61:45]
B
Used to play for the Cowboys, huh? What?
- [61:48]
C
Craig Morton.
- [61:48]
B
Craig Morton. Sorry. Craig Morton.
- [61:51]
C
There's no way George is asking me about Craig Morton's name.
- [61:53]
B
I just blanked out. I just couldn't remember. Craig Morton.
- [61:56]
C
Tired head makes an appearance.
- [61:57]
B
I guess so. But yeah, between the two of them, they had eight completions against the doomsday defense. And that defense was so incredibly awesome that year.
- [62:07]
C
Yes. Maybe we should have a watch along of Super Bowl 12 at some point.
- [62:11]
B
Oh, that'd be great.
- [62:13]
C
Maybe that's a good off season project here for Cowboys football friends.
- [62:19]
B
And a shout out to Brad Sham if you watch the NFL Films account on that, which Bob has probably 80 times the super bowl package on it. You hear Brad say, you know, I just get the funny feeling that Tom Landry's gonna show one of his, one of his trick plays here and sure enough, it's the Robert Newhouse pass down field.
- [62:41]
C
Gosh, I love that so much. Let me, let me just say this as a, as a overview of the Broncos uniforms. You've got to be out of your mind not wearing those full time.
- [62:55]
B
I don't know why they went away from them.
- [62:57]
C
I think one of the biggest crimes against football humanity was the fact that really this might be true across the board, which might be a sign that we're old, but I can't think of a time where an 80s uniform has been bettered by anything a team has tried since then. So if you want to just say the whole league should be forced to stay in their 80s uniforms forever. I think the New England Patriots made a big mistake. I think the Broncos made a mistake. I think the Atlanta Falcons made a mistake. I just think across the board, those. The Buccaneers. Of course, that doesn't even need to be said. Everybody wanted to find some futuristic look for their football team. And those teams that went away from their classic 80s NFL films or even 70s looks, they're just all losses in my mind. And maybe the chief among them is the Denver Broncos. There is just no way they should have been wearing what they were wearing there. Like with the, with the Terrell Davis. What was The Mile High. The Mile High salute.
- [64:10]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [64:11]
C
That era. Now, they were a great team, don't get me wrong, but those uniforms were, yeah, garbage compared to what Carl Mecklenburg once walked the earth in.
- [64:22]
B
It's funny though, how it works, because I can remember the old Tampa uniforms and we all used to make fun of those. That is a buccaneer with a blade in his mouth. And he's got a weird smile on his face. But now we have good nostalgic feelings about it.
- [64:36]
C
That's true.
- [64:37]
B
I guess. The thing is, we're never happy, Bob. We're never happy in the present. Let's be happy in the present.
- [64:42]
C
Did you See, when the Buccaneers and Seahawks played each other and wore their throwbacks.
- [64:46]
B
Yes.
- [64:47]
C
A couple weeks ago.
- [64:48]
B
Wonderful to me.
- [64:49]
C
I know.
- [64:50]
B
Because those were the helmets I was trying to collect back in the day.
- [64:53]
C
I know. Yeah. It might just be that we're old, I don't know. But, but I, I, I do feel like the Seahawks were better back then.
- [65:02]
B
Yeah. I never liked their change. I can't identify that color. And yeah, I like that first Seattle uniform, silver helmets and.
- [65:13]
C
Yeah, yeah, that big Seahawks side was Steve Largent.
- [65:17]
B
Oh, yeah. Heck, yeah.
- [65:18]
C
Yeah, that was beautiful. Well, Brian Bosworth.
- [65:21]
B
Brian Bosworth, he was wearing those, he wore that uni before they changed it.
- [65:26]
C
Up before he went to.
- [65:27]
B
Well, do you want a hot fry Georgie player of the week?
- [65:30]
C
I, you know, I do. I, in fact, I don't want to live without a hot fried Georgie fan. Player of the week.
- [65:37]
B
Well, for the first time this year, Bob, I'm going to give it to somebody on the defensive side of the ball. The man we talked about earlier, I thought Duron Bland was just such a difference maker. The pick six was huge, but the way he covered the way he tackled, I think it was a part of a very improved effort by the Cowboys defense on Sunday.
- [66:00]
C
No doubt. In fact, am I allowed to say he probably wins it before the pick six?
- [66:05]
B
Yeah, that's fair. I think so. Yeah.
- [66:08]
C
Great. That's what I was thinking. The pick six cemented it, but he was great all day long and, you know, he needs to bring that every week. Not that he doesn't. He's been missing, but, but that, you know, that sort of was the, the tone setter for a day where those Cowboys defenders were flying around the ball and they need to do the same thing in Denver.
- [66:32]
B
Well, now you can say you're officially ready for the Cowboys. We're already the game number eight of the season. Cowboys and Broncos almost to the halfway point. And we'll be back next week to talk about it. Thanks to our producer, Peter Welton. For Bob Sturm, I'm George Dunham. We are football friends and we'll talk to you again next week on the the podcast Cowboys edition.
- [66:58]
C
Yeah.
- [66:59]
B
Yeah.
- [67:02]
G
This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. It's cybersecurity awareness month and Lifelock has tips to protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication, report phishing, and update the software on your devices. And for comprehensive identity protection, let Lifelock alert you to suspicious uses of your personal information. Lifelock also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, safe and protected with a 30 day free trial@lifelock.com podcast terms apply.