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- [00:00]
A
As a scientist, I can tell you that Sundays are only 24 hours long. But with NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get every game, every Sunday all in one place. That's upwards of 30 hours of NFL in one day. How can there be 30 hours in 24 hours, you ask? I have a theory. Magic New users get NFL Sunday Ticket for eight payments of $34.50 per month. Sign up at NFLSundayTicket.com local and national games on YouTube TV NFL Sunday Ticket for out of market games excludes digital only games and commercial use terms and embargoes apply. Availability varies. Foreign it's the Musers the Podcast Cowboys Edition. This is what we do on Thursday. The Muse is the podcast with George, Craig and Gordo that drops on Wednesday morning. Thursday morning we drop this football friends Giorgio and Bob Sturm. The talk Cowboys in NFL Bob the Cowboys are one and one after one of the craziest games we've seen since last week.
- [01:01]
B
Yeah, yeah. No, they, they play crazy games, Georgie. And, and you know, it's, it's weird because it feels like they're happening more often. I don't know if that's the world of football or the world of Cowboys football, but the fact that most franchises would say that's the craziest game we've ever seen and we say, well that's the craziest game in at least two years, maybe four, because everyone who watched that game had to have been thinking about the watermelon kick game in 2020, which was the last time Dan Quinn was a head coach. And things all happened quickly as what Greg Zurline gave us the watermelon off Bones Fossil. So yeah, it's crazy. I want to get into that. But the first thing I want to get into with you because I require a Cowboys historian and I was talking with the guys on my show and do we have to always address Singapore?
- [02:03]
A
Yeah, tell Singapore who works on your show. Bob on the Hard Line on Dallas.
- [02:06]
B
Fort Worth the ticket I have two incredibly handsome men, Corby Davidson and Gen X Davey Lane. I believe he's dropped the Gen X part of his name and he is now Dave Lane. But regardless they are two parts of a three man show called the Hardline in Dallas Fort Worth Worth, Singapore. So anyway, we were talking about the Cowboys and they grew up cowboy fans. In fact they have both been cowboy season ticket holders whereas I grew up a stinking cheesehead who everybody is very leery of. A Yankee north of the Mason Dixon and somebody who wore green and gold pajamas as a young lad. And so when it comes to cowboy history, I'm obsessed with it way more than they are. But I was never at Texas Stadium before 1998. So there's. There's a massive, massive part of my curriculum which was only received through television. And that was spotty, partly because back then I'm positive I hated the Cowboys and, And also, you know, we didn't have cable and I would only see a few games a year. Anyway, I was talking to them yesterday and they looked at me like I had two heads. But the question was about the Cowboys horrible game presentation in 2025 and the fact that all the noon games feel like people are trying to slowly wake up from drinking too much the night before. And it's just, it's just Zombie Cowboys for the first quarter of every noon start at home. It's just, it's brutal. And so we say, is it. They're playing the same Jock Jam CD for the last 30 years, and it's still welcome to the Jungle. And does that put everybody in a catatonic trance or whatever it is? But it got us. It got me to remembering growing up watching games at Texas Stadium. And the trumpets. And the trumpets that seem to signify a good Cowboys play, a first down or maybe the start of a possession or maybe a big play. And Michael Irvin would get up and he would gyrate and he would point at the end zone. Also, something in the background sounded like either one or maybe a trio of trumpets were just having some sort of punctuator to let every. It's not quite like Boomer sooner or, or, or Rocky Top or anything like that, but it, it existed. And Corby and Dave had no idea what I was talking about.
- [04:36]
A
George, please tell me you are not crazy. They used to have that. And I do believe this will be something I'll. I'll research before next week. But the way I remember it, that was live. I do believe that's what I thought. And to take it a step further, part of the pregame presentation, as different units would come out, the three trumpeters would go, and then the defense would come out. Yeah. And I don't know when that stopped, if it stopped when they left Texas Stadium or if it stopped before 1998 when I started doing PA. But you are not crazy. And that was part of the Cowboys presentation long before Jock James. Yeah.
- [05:21]
B
So if you, if you talked, if you thought Cowboys football and you lived in Wisconsin, you associated that with the game like a college, like a college band. Playing after a first down or something like that. And, and I swear they also probably got Charge going.
- [05:37]
A
Yeah, that was a big one. And every Kickoff used to be. Every, Every Kickoff used to be the Charlie Pride song that we now play on our station, but it was a, it was an instrumental version of it, and it was the Cowboy band that did it. And that goes back to the days of the Cotton Bowl. All right, I'm going to get all this in line and get it for you for next week because that is, that is really interesting.
- [06:06]
B
I, I, I feel like it went to about the mid-90s and then got discontinued so that we could play Start Me up and welcome to the Jungle. So I, I don't know. I, I would like to see them reimagine the game presentation, but that's probably.
- [06:23]
A
Yeah, that's where it involves Rowdy and getting an animal in there.
- [06:27]
B
And yeah, we maybe opening the roof when the, when the weather's fine, all.
- [06:31]
A
That, all of that. But since you did a research project once and are still doing it on the 1975 Cowboys, I do believe in week two. Yeah, it was week two against the St. Louis Cardinals. They had a very similar game to this, where the Cowboys came all the way back and won by a similar score. I don't know if it was 40 to 37. I think it was 37, 31. Why don't we start with points and we'll start with the good part of the offense after the first couple of drives and the first half. And let's, let's start with our guy who we spend a lot of time in Dallas Fort Worth talking about, and that's the quarterback, Dak Prescott. I think it has gone so far with fan frustration that they forget and they don't appreciate games like the last two. Granted, they didn't beat Philadelphia, but given the pressure, given the circumstances, given what I know you have seen on the All 22, because you've written about it and you've talked about it, number four against the Giants. You couldn't play much better at that position, especially in the last three quarters of the game.
- [07:49]
B
There's no doubt. And, and what's great is we kind of feel the same way about the Eagles game. And so now you have two weeks of Dak looking like the very best version of himself. And this is where people, I think, are led astray by the extremely small sample size known as the playoffs. Now, it's so important for us to talk playoffs and, of course, legacy and all these types of things, but on A week to week basis, you can't win the super bowl, you can't win a playoff game in September, you can't play the Eagles when you're playing the Giants. There's just a lot of things that make talking about the guy frustrating because no matter what he does, and no matter what you say or even no matter what game clips you, demonstrate that he's actually way better than you think. It does come back to the, well, playoffs. Well, no championship. Well, you know, just all these things that he.
- [08:47]
A
And even the first one. Well, that was. They stink. Well, their front seven does not stink. And really, as an entire defense, I don't really think they stink.
- [08:56]
B
Yeah. And honestly, we did this with Romo and Romo was not allowed to have stretches of great football without being reminded that he's never won anything. And you know, I don't know if it's the curse of being blessed with Staubach and Aikman is that no other quarterback is allowed to have a good game without people dumping on it. But that's really a frustrating way to enjoy football at its core. And I think you agree with me on this. Sports are the great escape from the realities of death, taxes, disease, and all the things we all deal with in life. And I just think maybe we're not feeling the liberty to enjoy the journey at all. And when a player is going through a journey and I think our favorite journey story, at least for me, for me is, is Dirk. And the fact that he toiled and had to listen to everything for well over a decade and most of his career before he finally had this incredibly wonderful adventure at the end, or at least what felt like the end. And then everybody then revised what they thought all along. Like, oh, I knew he was going to do it, or I was on his side the whole way. Well, most people weren't. And I don't know that Dak or Romo were ever going to have that because I don't know that they were ever as great as Dirk. But that's not the story. The story is Dak was objectively second in the NFL in the MVP voting in 2023 when he lost to Lamar Jackson, who also, by the way, has never won big in the playoffs. And he had a wonderful 2023, an absolutely wonderful year with an awful ending, and he was part of it and he has to own it. And he does. He also gets paid. And there's, there's a lot to this, but I just, I'm really excited and kind of energized George, that Dak looks personally inspired and determined to be the tip of the spear this year that takes the Cowboys into whatever adventure they go on. And, and I, I'm seeing it in his eyes and in his emotions, but I'm also seeing it in his play. And I think there's a lot of Romo here in about 2012, 2013, 2014, where you play your 10,000 hours and everything slows down and you do become a Jedi. And you know the coverages and you know the answers to the test, and I think we're there. The Robo curse was. That was also when his back broke and when he could no longer do the job, whereas Dak, sure, there have been injuries, but I think they're mostly fluke and mostly healed. And I think he is a very, very healthy man in his young 30s, and I think he has tremendous play in front of him. And I think this city is about to learn that they've had a really good quarterback for. Well, for about a decade.
- [11:58]
A
I thought the, the slant, the Turpin, the touchdown pass to Pickens, some of the outs that he threw, the deep crosser to Lamb was great. Patience and hanging in the pocket.
- [12:11]
B
Those are unreal. Just that one to Pickens at in overtime where he's getting hit in the face and he feathers a 35 yard pass on time, on target beautifully. That is an elite throw for Matthew Stafford, Patrick Mahomes, anybody who does it, Aaron Rodgers, we are like, that is an elite throw. That's what an MVP looks like. And Dak made those plays. You're talking about kind of those over routes to the opposite corner, 30 yards down the field or 25, he's making those.
- [12:42]
A
And, and for those who think of the Cowboys and you know, this offense just isn't that good, the offensive lines got problems. I don't know if they really have a true running back. Okay, well, I'd like to add that to Dax Ledger because if, by the way, what is your stance on PFF and their ratings?
- [13:05]
B
I spent many years taking shots at them because it's fun to do bad things. And then I worked with them for about eight years in my time with Mr. Aikman. And it wasn't because they bought me. It was because I learned how they do it, the process. And now I am probably one of their biggest fans because I've been able to see behind the curtain. I've had all my questions answered and I think it's not, it's not the gospel. You still have to do your own work. But it's an incredible tool that I'm so thankful.
- [13:45]
A
I think, yes, and I think it's interesting. But let's just say their rankings this week were right then Dak Prescott just played one of the greatest games in Cowboys history. If yes, if every lineman was not even in the top half grade wise of the NFL. And some of the plays showed that where he's under huge duress, duress has to either step up or how about the Dak run for the first down? I think there is a difference to his physical being this year. But if all of that is true, then Dak played great. But I don't want to say this was an F for the offensive line. Number one, you got to consider the front and you've got to consider some of the success, which includes 40 points and a gob of points in the fourth quarter when they had to have it and running plays that haven't worked around here in eight years. That, that worked. Javante Williams touchdown run again, a few more dirty runs on short yardage situations where and we can talk about the loss of Cooper BB and what's that, what that's going to mean for this line. But I don't think it was all failure for the offensive line this week.
- [15:08]
B
No, I agree with you. It's spotty for sure. I like Terrence Steele, really struggled and I'm worried about him.
- [15:14]
A
And Guyton had some problems, penalty and otherwise.
- [15:18]
B
Yes. Yeah, they're really good at, you know, guard, center, guard. Although BB Going down and switching them out for Hoffman should, should trouble us a little bit. But, but Hoffman will battle his tail off. I don't, I don't dislike him at all. I, you know, they're a really good offense. If Lamb and Pickens and Turpin and Ferguson are kind of the four, you know, pieces of the pie, if you will. And if a guy like Dak can use those guys where you have to decide, you know, you have to pick your poison, you have to choose your mode of death because if you're going to double cd, that's going to make Pickens very dangerous. And if you're going to try to, you know, play over the top on both of those guys, well, then Turpin and Ferguson should have field days. And now if Javante Williams, who I know is a tremendous receiver, can, can get going. I just, I don't think they've ever had a number one wide receiver playing number two before, like when they had Amari Cooper. CD wasn't really a number one yet. And I Mean, correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like when Des was here, they always had such a drop off to the number one. Yeah, I mean, there was a year where Amari Cooper and Gallup and Randall Cobb were all here. But I'll be honest, I. What I see from. From George Pickens is a number one wide receiver on most teams and, and.
- [16:52]
A
So far we've seen nothing good. George Pickens, outside of the ridiculous personal foul he got in Philly, outside of that, he's been really good.
- [17:00]
B
Yeah. And I'm not super worried about the emotional outburst because as I said when it happened, he was playing with a leadership. A leadership void in Pittsburgh on offense. Like if Ben Roethlisberger was his quarterback and he was acting up, it'd be one thing.
- [17:17]
A
He was playing with Russ Wilson, who just threw for 450 against the Cowboys.
- [17:22]
B
Well, I mean, more importantly, most of his career he's playing with Pickett, he's playing with Mason Rudolph. And I just, I think, I think playing with Dak and cd, I think George Pickens sort of understands his spot in the leadership vacuum. And by the way, they understand. I'd like to think maybe Shadi or Jerry or Steven said to them, look, if we go get this guy, I want you guys to take him under your wing. I want you to include him in your social calendars and I want you to make sure, you know, in essence, it's kind of a rude way to say babysit him. Let's make sure this doesn't get out of control. Let's make sure he acts right and he's part of the solution and not part of the problem. But as far as his, his X's and O's, George and I know you see this, there are things about CD that are all world. There are other things that he's not ideal for. And those things, in my opinion would be like a slant on third and seven where I need him to just a bully the corner, which is the same thing you need to do in the red zone at the pylon. Kind of what DEZ was so good at is, bro, you're going to need two guys over here in the red zone if we're inside the five. This throwing to me is basically a handoff to, you know, to Saquon. This is too easy. So get help over here or we're going to kill you. And I think George Pickens is big enough and he wins in the air and he bullies guys and he walls them off that he's almost a big tight end out there. And so CDs not a great red zone finisher and he's not a great third down finisher. And Pickens does both of those. And he's also not necessarily a go ball, deep shot guy and Pickens does that. So I guess what I'm saying is I don't think 400 or 40 points is the norm, but I do think 30.
- [19:14]
A
I do too. I think they're going to average more than 30 points a game.
- [19:18]
B
And I think you honestly with your defense like this, I think you have to say let's attack, let's be an attacking offense and let's go try to, you know, wipe up some of the spills our defense is going to make because they're going to make plenty.
- [19:34]
A
Speaking of the defense, let's go there next because not since my dad said this is what you call a football have I seen something like what we saw against the Giants. And we'll do that next on Football Friends this college football season, Pork Rinds.com the nation's premier hub for pork rind lovers everywhere is the crunch time hero of the snack aisle. Pork rinds are low carb, collagen packed and high in protein, so you can keep your energy high without the guilt. Each week, a college football player who made an impactful play will be named Crunch Time Hero of the Week and will be posted on Instagram. For each repost or share, porkrines.com and Rudolph Foods will donate $1, up to a maximum donation of $1,000 per player to the Archer Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to helping families dealing with dipg DMG pediatric brain cancer. Learn more about the Archer foundation at archer-foundation.org Giving back with a perfect snack to celebrate those big crunch time plays. Find your rind@porphrinds.com or find Southern Recipe Small Batch Pork Rinds at HEB. Today find your rind@purnrinds.com be a crunch time hero and visit orkrinds.com on Instagram to learn how you can make a difference for children diagnosed with pediatric brain cancer. Support our charity partner@archer-foundation.org Football is back and underdog is the best place to make picks and win money all season long. Playing underdog is easy. Just pick whether your favorite player will go higher or lower on stats like receiving yards, interceptions and more. In tomorrow's game, I'm taken higher on Josh Allen's passing yards, also like Dalton Kincaid going higher than 30.5 receiving yards. Download the app today and sign up with the promo Code musers to score $50 in bonus funds when you play your first $5. That's promo code MUSERS Millions have won billions making picks on underdog Will you be next? Underdog make picks, win money must be 18 or older, 19 or older in Alabama and Nebraska, 19 or older in Colorado for some games 21 or older in Arizona, Massachusetts and Virginia and present in a state where underdog fantasy operates. Terms apply. See assets.underdogfantasy.com web play getterms dfs underscore.HTML for details. Offer not valid in Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org. in New York, call the 24. 7, Hope line at 1-877-HOPE NY or text Hope NY 246-7369. Okay, football friends here on the Musers, the podcast, George Dunham, Bob Sturm and we talk about Cowboy history. If there's one thing Cowboy fans know, it's a good or bad defense when they see it. And so far in two weeks, we saw a ridiculous first half against Philly, where they played much better in the second half. Some of it was after the weather delay. And then this is about as bad I would say the Cowboys have looked if I hadn't seen last year's Baltimore and New Orleans game, which is about the same time of year. But Bob, help me out. What is going on with their zone defense? And Eber Flutes has shown almost nothing but zone defense. But my limited experience in football, not a coordinator, not a defensive player. That's not how you play zone defense.
- [23:08]
B
No. No. And zone's supposed to be easier to learn and easier to play.
- [23:13]
A
Don't give up big plays because you're going to be in zone here, Right. Protected over the top, right?
- [23:19]
B
Yeah. And they, I mean, I think I found 14 times in Cowboys history. So they've played 1067 games, George, in regular season and playoffs. 1067. So the next one will be 1068, I believe. And in those games, there have been 14 times where they've given up 500 yards and at least 37 points. And in those 14, they're two and 12, this being the second win. The other one was the Monday night game in 2004 at Seattle with Julius Jones, rookie, going off. And that was a fun game. But I say all that to say you don't win games like this. You played a losing game of football by giving up 500 yards, especially to a team that, frankly, was more surprised than you were that they got the 500 yards. Like the Giants are like, whoa, whoa, whoa. We, we get 300, we do not get 500. We get, we get 17 points. We don't get 37. So what's crazy, the two biggest Achilles heels of last season were stopping the run, which I thought they did really well on Sunday, and red zone defense, which they also did really well on Sunday. Do you know The Giants were 1 for 5 in the red zone?
- [24:38]
A
Yeah.
- [24:41]
B
And. And they still scored 37.
- [24:43]
A
It could have been.
- [24:44]
B
I guess what I'm telling you, I'm telling you that was a half 100 is, is if the Giants like they went for it on fourth down at like the seven and failed and they settled for field goals. And so it was a really inefficient 37 points which is even scarier how crazy it is that, that the Cowboys won this game. So, so stopping the run is good. The defensive tackles played really well. I thought OSA and Kenny Clark and Solomon Thomas and you know, I thought Kenneth Murray was better. There were some, there were some good. James Houston got another sack. I don't know that dude so much fun. But of course they got drilled through the air. Seven 25 yard pass plays, which is the most since Philip Rivers in 2017 on Thanksgiving did it to the Cowboys at the Death Star, giving up a.
- [25:39]
A
50 yarder on third and 25. I don't. I've ever seen that. Maybe I've seen it, but I haven't seen it be that easy where you're just wide ass open right down the middle of the field.
- [25:52]
B
Yeah. And that's, I believe that was a Tampa 2 snap which I don't love on 3rd and 24 because now you're matching up a linebacker with Wanda Robinson who I bet runs a sub four. Four. That's. That's a lot to ask of Kenneth Murray. So, so I'm not sure I blame the players here.
- [26:13]
A
They're.
- [26:14]
B
They're trying to run 100% zone. And what I was looking at today, Georgie is from 2021 to 2023, the Cowboys played more man than any team in the NFL. Number number one, which would mean they're number 32.
- [26:30]
A
And that's what they've been drafted and to in the last four years in the secondary.
- [26:35]
B
So their personnel, their personnel that we saw on Sunday, Trayvon Diggs drafted for man. Donovan Wilson probably drafted even before that. I Forget who the DC was in 2019, but he may not apply. But he's been here the whole time playing man Malik Hooker here the whole time playing man, acquired when they were playing man. And so Kair Elam is a zone corner, but he wasn't a good one in Buffalo. And Duron Bland is down, who also was drafted to play man. So you have all these man pieces in your secondary. And I'm not saying they can't learn zone, but I am saying they didn't play at all in the preseason together. And in week one, they played a team that only threw deep one time and hit on that one pass to Johan Dotson that Jalen Hurts tried further than five yards down the field. He hit a 51 yarder or whatever it was to Dotson in week one. So they look confused when they're passing off players when there are, you know, seams in the zone. So if we're playing split safety, so think of COVID two, cover four or cover six. These are split safety zones where you have two deep men and those, they, they each have their own half. But what if it's in the middle, which one of us is taking the play right down the center of the field. And that requires communication, chemistry and, and continuity and understanding reps. And this is what happens if they're going to send three verts at us, one to each sideline and one right down the middle and we're playing split zone. Who's got.
- [28:17]
A
That's what training camp was for. And the way. And Shoddy says the way we practice is going to make the difference in this team.
- [28:25]
B
Yeah. And that's a concern because they look like they've never played zone before. And so you're 100% committed to 100% zone and you look completely ill equipped. So what do you think? Chicago and Green Bay and your upcoming opponents are thinking? That. That should be terrifying. You got to get this sorted out. You got, you know, I know the cliches. We got to get this cleaned up. Yeah, you probably do. That probably should be the number one goal. And it just feels like every time you fix a problem, another one springs up. You know, it's, it's, it's the holes in the dike or whatever the, the old Dutch boy was trying to do. You know, you're, we're, we're trying to plug this leak and. Oh, but I had to take my hand out of this leak and, and so we had a pass rush. We had a good pass defense for the most part, but we have, we wanted to fix our run defense and now we'd have no pass rush and no, you know, past defense. And so It's a little frustrating. Remember Parcells, George, when. When Parcells got here, he did not switch his scheme until he was able to get that 2005 draft where Spears, Spears and Ratliff. But before that, when he got here, he kind of ran what they. With the players they had. And I don't think Eber Floose is doing that. And he may be under orders and they may all agree on it, but this is really bad.
- [29:55]
A
And I think you're right. I think lights went off around their schedule and those who are preparing to play the Cowboys of. Holy smokes. We've got. We've got free run here. And that's the other thing that gets me. One of the things that's supposed to be more difficult about being a receiver in the NFL is you get traffic and you've got to fight your way into your route. There's just free run all over the place, even when the Cowboys were single high safety. And there's. There's nobody bumping anybody in the first five yards. And it's. It's garbage. I do. I will add in this from the Giants perspective. I wonder if a light. And don't laugh at this, but I wonder if a light went off in their heads of, hey, this dude can still throw the deep ball and we've got guys who can run deep and I wouldn't be surprised if you see that some more. I don't know if it'll work to the tune of 450.
- [30:47]
B
No, I think. Yeah, I. I think you're right. And. And I kind of think. I kind of am reminded of the Baylor quarterback right now that. Sawyer Robertson. Right. Is that his name? And. And we watched him against Auburn and then we watched him against smu and he looked like two different versions of himself. And one, he's dealing with pass protection. That. That is rough. And the other, SMU didn't touch him all day. And that's the difference between a good quarterback and a great quarterback sometimes is if he's never scared that you're about to punish him, he can stand back there and give his guys a chance to get downfield. And I just thought Russ was way too comfortable. Which leads us back to, you know what this team needs right now? A pass rusher. And, you know, that explains Jadevion Clowney. That explains, you know, if you're Matt Eberfluss, you might have to start bringing more pressure, which might actually cause more problems in your secondary, but at least it will make the clock go F. So there's I mean there's a lot of choices you now make. But this does feel familiar because whether it's on offense or defense, George, we, we usually get to about week three or four where everything you plan the entire off season as a coaching staff has to be changed because you can't run it. And, and, and now you've got to get into the lab and say, okay, well what can we survive with? Because the other side of the ball. Well, we're asking way too much of them and we've got to at least look for ways to. You're never going to find a way to make this an elite defense when you don't have elite players. But you have to find a way to make this at least a league average defense that can give the stinko Giants a little bit of trouble. Yeah. And you're not there.
- [32:44]
A
If I was a defensive consultant, number one, it'd be really funny if I was that in the NFL, but I would tell Matt Eber Flutes, you don't have to start him, but make sure that James Houston has more snaps. You think your guy Stuart Ready knows your system. Put him in there. And until either Diggs is at 100% or feels like he's comfortable with this defense, I almost start him and I mix up coverages and I'm sure that's what they've been doing all week. Okay, how are we going to be different? What sort of different looks can we give Caleb Williams? But man, that was just, that was awful. And again going back to Dak, he had to hit the accelerator and keep it down for a quarter and a half and somehow he did it.
- [33:35]
B
Yeah. And how many plays in that game. I'd love to go back and look how many plays in that game are. You're, you're down to your last strike and you know, if you do not convert this 4th and 4 to Tolbert, if you do not make this ridiculous 64 yard field goal, I mean if you don't. How many times were they at like 3% win probability because they are giving up touchdowns at such a rapid rate. Like you mentioned the third and 24, but let's not forget there was a fourth and three where they also threw a long touchdown. I think also to Wanda Robinson and also I think it was against the split zone safeties again where they. Right before the snap. And this is a good one, I wrote about it this morning where they motion the tight end outside, I think neighbors. And so if you can do that against a zone now the corner moves to the most Outside threat and everybody now matches rematches with the, with the next guy inside who then turned into Neighbors who then turned into Robinson. So they, they had three by one. And, and the obviously the Giants are trying to do that. They're trying to take your best cover guy and put it on a receiver they're not going to use. So they're tight end Theo Johnson and that's genius. Of course if the Cowboys aren't prepared and organized because now Malik Neighbors is working on your slot who I think was Malik Hooker at the time. And, and, and, and, and Donovan Wilson is worried about the guy going down the seam. And, and so you're, you're all confused. But what that means is the guy again right down Main street and he's behind your guys and so you're at these crit and that's with like 30, 30 seconds left in the game. So I guess what I'm saying is in the most critical spots, if you or I were defensive coordinator, which neither of us would ever be, but if we were, I think we've played enough Madden at least to know on third and 24 or on fourth and the game is on the line, we are going to play the one defense where we're sure their receiver is not going to get behind our Neighbors is great.
- [35:52]
A
Neighbors is just Neighbors is great. He is.
- [35:56]
B
But if my safety is 30 yards downfield, start running at the snap and do not let him behind you like you, like I know he's faster than you, but you have a head which.
- [36:06]
A
By the way you know where. Speaking of ridiculous defense, didn't the Giants help the Cowboys late with their almost that Madden like defense of whatever we do, we're not going to give up anything deep. And they gave free run to get the Cowboys in scoring position.
- [36:24]
B
Yes. Yeah. And that play and I posted a picture of it yesterday on Twitter because I'm obsessed with it. I think you're talking about the back shoulder throw to Jake FERGUSON with like 19 seconds left in regulation. So, so the Giants score the game winning touchdown but there's still 19 seconds left or 24 seconds left and they have to kick it back. This is at the end of the fourth quarter. And so Cowboys in this, in this ridiculous NFL we now live in where 24 seconds is no problem. They have to get the ball to midfield because of course they have a kicker who can hit from 70.
- [37:02]
A
We need to talk about him in.
- [37:04]
B
A second but yeah, we definitely need to talk about him here in a second but. So the Cowboys have to move the ball to, to about midfield, which like I said is would, would make our brains break. I'm reading a book right now about 1974 and George Blanda hit a 41 yard field goal in the AFC championship game and that was his season long 41 yards. George Bland and I just think that's the funniest thing ever. Anyway, this back shoulder fade to Dak. This picture I posted, Dak is firing it as hard as he can and Jake Ferguson is running away from him and Jake is not even considering turning around. And just think about how fast Dak can throw the ball 25 yards when he's cranking it as hard as he can. And the Giants are all standing there around Ferguson and the play works. These guys are pros so these guys can do this and we just imagine how is this even possible? But if you can imagine NFL quarterback standing like right behind you and then says now run. And when you get to 20 yards he's going to throw it and you're still looking the other direction. And at 25 yards you're supposed to turn around and the ball is going to arrive the second you turn around you're going to have like five feet to see it and then you have to catch it. And that's just a normal play in the NFL where we expect it to work, but that's how they have to throw it to get it there before the defense can react. And it's just, it's just beautiful, honestly, when it works. But it also, we should all have to try it as fans just to see that they can do that.
- [38:46]
A
Yes.
- [38:47]
B
How many times you don't even turn around, it just hits you in the back of the head and knocks you over. So I love it. But that's what they had to do. And of course I believe this is probably a great time to unveil this week's hot fry Georgie player of the game, which we're bringing back, which I believe gets this player a delivered bag of hot fries from Georgie. And I would assume it can only be one person. If I'm not mistaken.
- [39:15]
A
It's got to be your kicker and it's gotta be Brandon Aubrey. And this and the fact, I don't know what's more outrageous, the fact that he calmly hits a 64 yarder or as we are watching that, we think, yeah, this is probably going in, we're all treating it like it's a 42 yarder, thinking, oh yeah, he's got this, he's got the distance, just a matter of accuracy. And I Think that was the one that had a little bit of left to right on it and then it's straightened out. I heard him talking about that but.
- [39:48]
B
Man, yes, he could fade or draw.
- [39:51]
A
And what a story he is. As we were talking about on our, our show this week, how long or maybe Disney already has gone to him and said hey, can we do your story? Because this is the most ridiculous thing we've ever seen. You not only make it to the NFL, but you're the NFL's best kicker and most accurate and most lethal kicker and just a couple of years time. It's incredible.
- [40:20]
B
Yeah, I've never seen anything like it because nobody has. It's such an outlier to think he was in Major League Soccer and then out in the real world and, and just the whole story, like if he was a okay kicker in the NFL, his story would be magical. The fact that he is the best kicker probably in the history of the sport is so silly. And so when we're watching football all weekend, like I'm watching A and M at Notre Dame and the crazy game there, it's tied at 40 with basically eight seconds left. And now the A and M kicker has to make an extra point, no problem. And, and that was, that was like the most stressful extra point of all time relative to watching the next day. Brandon Aubrey just ho hum in a 46 yard game winner. Like for our whole Life We've watched 46 yard field goals and you and I are like telling our boys this, this is not automatic. 46 is a long, long kick. And we kind of treat his 64 like it's 46 and his 46 like it's an extra point. And, and the stat that Bobby Bell threw out there last week or on, on Sunday night blew my mind. And I looked it up and confirmed it because I'm, I'm, I'm that type of guy that, that has to confirm stats before I, before I repeat them because it sounded so silly in his career, George, from 43 yards to 60 yards he is 39 of 40.
- [42:05]
A
That's just silly.
- [42:08]
B
39 of 40. That is like, like seriously a basketball player making right handed layups should be 39 for 40. We are talking 43 to 60 yards, 60 yards thought of as impossible, stupid for most of our lifetime. And so I've never seen anything, you.
- [42:29]
A
Know the, the guys on our station and our post game show talked about Mark Mosley winning the most valuable player for Washington in 1982 and his long was 48 and he made he was very accurate. He made 20 of 21 which at 95% that's just kind of okay. Yeah, we'll keep you on the team. He missed three extra points now in just a nine game season. So I ask you if this type of season continues. Let's say he hits three more kicks beyond 60 yards. Or maybe he hits a 70 yarder and he only misses two the whole year. And the Cowboys surprise the NFL and they win 10 games and make the playoffs. Shouldn't he be a legitimate most valuable player candidate?
- [43:31]
B
Okay, I'm willing to entertain this if I'm allowed to cross examine you, which is. Are you okay with Mark Mosley being the mvp?
- [43:38]
A
No, I'm sure. I don't know why I didn't go to John Rigging. I don't have a stats in front of me but I'm sure he did more.
- [43:46]
B
I'm looking at the voting right now for the 1982 NFL MVP and you're right, it was the shortened season and so maybe this is just a glitch in the system. But number two with nearly split votes was Dan Fouts. And Dan Fouts didn't really have a great Dan Fouts season. And honestly after Dan Fouts there's nobody else on the list. In fact, three through five all barely received.
- [44:13]
A
Is Riggins on there?
- [44:14]
B
It's Mark. No. Marcus Allen, Joe Theisman and Danny White.
- [44:18]
A
That's what I'm talking about.
- [44:19]
B
Finished fifth in mvp, which is kind of.
- [44:23]
A
Write that down. That's good. That's good for our armory top five MVP.
- [44:30]
B
Fifth and 82 MVP voting. Strike here. Don't worry about it. The, the, the other thing is you and I did the Sturm 60 voting for, for my man.
- [44:42]
A
I'm so embarrassed about that. I didn't even put him in the top 10.
- [44:47]
B
Well, honestly, you and I voted him the lowest and I think we had the same reason because he's a kicker and because that drives us crazy to consider them football.
- [44:57]
A
But you told us not to have bias by position and.
- [45:02]
B
No, but kicker.
- [45:03]
A
Kicker's a little good. But this one's associated with immediate points. This one is so good. Do you believe with what Greg Olson said that if you're playing the Cowboys and you have fourth down and three or four at the nine that you ought to just go for it because you're going to give up field position and probably three the other way.
- [45:26]
B
That's an interesting thought. I don't know what the game effects will be on the opponents. I do know this. With the new Touchback rule being the 35 and his range being.
- [45:38]
A
So you've got to gain 13 yards and you're in. You're in Brandon Aubrey's range.
- [45:45]
B
And what is his range?
- [45:47]
A
70.
- [45:50]
B
Well, then you don't. You hardly have to gain math that far, right? No, no, I guess you're right. Okay, so you say our 48 at 18. Yeah, that's 70. Okay, you're right. So I gained 13 yards. That's so stupid.
- [46:04]
A
13 yards and you're in field goal range.
- [46:06]
B
If you get it to the third now, it's shoddy. Okay, so if we kick it from our own 4040. So the snap is at the 48. He's at the 40. So they get the ball at the 40. That takes a coach that has some stones to try it. Unless it's like the final play regulation.
- [46:28]
A
Are you willing to give that up in midway through the second quarter? I think the answer to that is no. But he is so good. I think you're. I would say normally what, 60% of him making it.
- [46:40]
B
I would say it's normally no, George, but we've seen these guys go for it inside their own 30 these days, so clearly they're not completely allergic to turning the ball over at their own 29. Right?
- [46:53]
A
Yeah, you go for it there. So why not do it when it's immediately associated with three points?
- [46:59]
B
I think you owe it to the people to try a 70 yarder.
- [47:02]
A
We are going to see it soon. Who knows? I don't know. Because of the wind of Chicago. I don't know if we'll see this week unless they're with the wind and some sort of crazy thing. And it's not swirling at Soldier Field. But let's talk about. Let's talk about them burrs and let's talk about your guy Caleb Williams next.
- [47:24]
B
This episode is brought to you by ESPN. Catch the first WWE premium live event on ESPN, Russellpalooza live on Saturday, September 20th at 7:00pm Eastern Time. It's going to be an epic night in Indianapolis featuring some of the biggest WWE Superstars. This event is only on ESPN, so go to stream.espn.com and sign up to the ESPN app today for your all access pass to RussellPalooza and all WWE premium live events.
- [47:53]
A
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void?
- [47:59]
B
But with LinkedIn ads, you can know.
- [48:00]
A
You'Re reaching the right decision makers. A network of 130 million of them. In fact, you can even target buyers by job title industry company, Seniority skills and did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply. Okay, Cowboys and Bears on Sunday. Caleb Williams, their quarterback, is such an interesting study. Number one overall for a franchise that is Jim McMahon took him to a title. Rex Grossman got him to a Super Bowl. Outside of that, for the last 60 years, the Bears have really not had a quarterback. It's. It's a franchise that's more void of good quarterbacks than, than really any other franchise in the NFL. So they see Caleb Williams as their savior. I've said all along, from draft night, buyer or drafter, beware. I think there's, there's some things going on in his head that aren't in most winning quarterbacks head. I think he tries to make the spectacular play way too much, therefore he holds onto the ball too much. I don't think he's a great reader. And yes, therefore he's got some growing to do before he's going to be all that.
- [49:33]
B
Yeah. And you have the new coach situation where I'm sure the Bears are saying we need to hire Ben Johnson to fix Caleb Williams. But I'm sure Ben Johnson thinks he's hired to fix the Chicago Bears. And many times when a new coach is brought in, especially one that you're paying $13 million a season for, you would say, well, if I can inherit a quarterback and make it work, that's great. But if I can't inherit a quarterback and make it work, that's fine. I'm here for the Bears. I'm not here for Caleb Williams. And then you see a new coach say, you know what, guys, I need to go get my quarterback who can do what I need to do. And so I do think that will be interesting because Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay and all these guys ultimately went and got their own quarterback. They didn't go with who they inherited. And in fact, sometimes they had to try a few different times. But I think, I think with Caleb, you have a guy who's extremely talented, who is not comfortable playing in structure. And then you have a coach who wants you to play in structure at all times. And so because his entire scheme is the structure, I mean, this is, again, this is McVay, this is Shanahan. I'm not saying Ben Johnson is directly from their school, but it's the same basic principles of look, I don't want you out there making it up. You're not Aaron Rodgers in his prime. I want you to run what I want you to run, which is the long struggle between architects and quarterback in this league. And invariably some coaches don't want to deal with freelance guy and some freelancers don't want to deal with structure guy. And so rounded round we go, but this one's pretty clear. This is Ben Johnson. I need this run my way. And this is Caleb Williams. I kind of like doing the Kyler Murray thing more where I can run around and do stuff because I don't think I'm playing with a very talented.
- [51:46]
A
And I have seen, especially last year, I haven't jumped really deep into their games this year. I did watch the Detroit game and that got out of hand and their defense got scorched by the Lions. But man, I see a guy that sometimes either doesn't make the read or has a receiver or maybe the read is, hey, let's hit this back out there, 8 yards and let's play the next down. Now he's going to give you one of those awesome Caleb spin moves and, and sometimes he makes the play. But how many times he gets sacked last year and some of those were his fault. Everyone's all bears need a better offensive line. How about a quarterback that gets rid of it within three seconds?
- [52:31]
B
Yeah, and you know, there's a lot there. I mean, you can go Jay Cutler to Mitch Trubisky to, to Justin Fields to Caleb Williams and so many of the problems overlap. But I think in particular, and the problem with Caleb Williams is he is part of this Patrick Mahomes generation where they see Patrick Mahomes play and he almost like Steph Curry in basketball, has inspired an entire generation of kids and it's cool and it's awesome. And the dual threat quarterback is not going anywhere in this league. But what we forget is that Steph Curry and Patrick Mahomes both are so fundamentally perfect in everything they do, including their intelligence and including their ability to win in structure that what you are seeing is the highlight portion. But it's not the actual cake, it's the frosting. And now the generation of kids that just want to cross half court and jack up a Steph Curry three are just playing the frosting part. And Caleb Williams is Caleb, I think Ben Johnson said it great. If you watch that Lions game, you probably heard the same thing I did. And I thought, I forget who was doing color in the game. But he said, Ben Johnson said, I need Caleb to play point guard, not shooting guard. And that's so perfect. Is play on time, get the ball out quick. I want your first or second read. I want you to play on schedule. This will eliminate sacks. And it's just we need to speed up the offense and we need to throttle back on the improvisational stuff. Now. Improvisational is so valuable for those four or five points in a game where we just need you to go make us a play. But the other 60, would you please play point guard? And will you please simplify your entire structure so that we can. So your teammates think that it's not. We're not just watching you, that they're playing.
- [54:34]
A
There's a cowboy tie in there, guy. We both know Troy Aikman. I thought that was interesting. On the America's Team documentary, when Norv Turner entered the building as offensive coordinator and he said, I need to speed him up. And I think Troy came in here as, man, I got to save this franchise. I got to be Roger. I've got to be all this. And between Norv Turner telling him, hey, let's. Let's get. Let's get the ball out of there. Yeah. Throwing it to 88 is a great idea, but sometimes just throwing it out in the flat, the Daryl Johnston's, that's a win too. Or. And Jimmy used to tell him, throw it in the throat, in the dirt, just don't turn it over.
- [55:16]
B
Yeah.
- [55:16]
A
And sometimes that was a little frustrating to watch, and I think that was really hard for Troy, ultimate competitor. But I think Caleb Williams needs that. Look, get the ball out sometimes. Take a little victory and it'll help us get the big victory, which is a win which I didn't see a lot of. I'm sorry. At usc when he was being, you know, crowned as the greatest quarterback prospect we've ever seen. I'm sorry, I just have not seen it.
- [55:47]
B
Yeah, no, I think you're. I think you're onto something. And my friend Tyler Dunn wrote a long expose on the Bears process to get to Caleb. And it's fascinating because it sounds like Ryan Poles and I guess Eberfluss at the time, ironically enough, did not. You know what? Eberfluous wasn't in the decision. I need to take his name out of this. But Ryan Poles in particular, who came from Kansas City, was so convinced that Caleb Williams was Patrick Mahomes, too, that he did not ever give Jaden Daniels a strong look at all. And I wonder if in five years, Jaden Daniels was clearly the Peyton Manning in the Ryan Leaf draft sort of thing. And I wonder where Caleb is. And of course, it's way too early to crown.
- [56:42]
A
Yeah. And I don't want to say the guy's never going to be anything because he has the ability. It's in there somewhere. Really do.
- [56:48]
B
Oh, his arms.
- [56:50]
A
And I think it's in there, but, man, it could be a long road ahead. Yeah. Weren't those meetings and Hard Knocks interesting between Eber Floose and Caleb, where Caleb's just kind of like, yeah. How much. How much time is this going to take?
- [57:05]
B
I mean, seriously, George, I'd love to go back and look at those, because they're at the time. And the Hard Knocks thing, which is just a full propaganda piece with the Bears season, was ridiculous. But it was basically. I mean, the opening scene of the first episode was like, this is the greatest athlete we've had in Chicago since Michael Jordan.
- [57:25]
A
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down.
- [57:28]
B
You're just a little bit there, fellas. And. And. And then you're right. When he had the one on one with the Eber flutes. I can still see the scene where he's like, slouched in his chair, you know. And again, some of this is for show, but I've seen enough quarterbacks when their head coach is talking to them. Their posture is amazing. They're taking notes, they're nodding. They are looking into the eyes of the person speaking to him, not kind of waiting for this, for him to stop talking so I can leave sort of thing. And I think that is most takes on Caleb is just that. But A, he's awful aloof for a guy who hasn't accomplished anything yet. And B, that he may not be very interested in the journey that it takes to be great at this level, which is a whole other conversation about what does nil do to players. You know, the Bob Ganey. It's hard to be hungry if you're full. If you pay somebody 20, 30, or $40 million while they're still a college athlete, do they have the hunger for greatness? Well, some do. Some athletes, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, those guys, you know, LeBron James even, they. They want to be great. Even if they are rich already, they want to be great because they're just trying to conquer a world. But. But there's a whole other type of human that they want to be rich so that they can play Fortnite all day or whatever they want to do, you know, I mean, it's just. It's it's a different wiring and it takes. It takes all types of people to make the world go around. And I don't know who's who and probably none of us know what someone's heart is like, but there are questions about that. As far as the Bears, they do have more talent than they've ever had or at least in this generation because they have been assembling a pretty good roster. It's not a bad team and it's definitely not a layup win by any stretch for a team with as many flaws as the Cowboys. So I think this is going to add ask a lot of them. We're going to learn about the ability to be up for every game and every opponent and to not look ahead or look behind because there are obviously cowboy distractions all over that schedule. But, but, but get down to business and the defense is going to have to be ready for Ben Johnson rubbing his hands together but at the same time trying to put in plays that he knows Caleb can handle. So this the following week against Matt LaFleur and Jordan Love. I would be very leery of the Matt Eberfluous defense, but this week I do think it's a very lacking confidence offense versus a very lacking confidence defense.
- [60:24]
A
And that, yeah, it should this Caleb light up a Cowboys defense that's been lit up here these first couple of weeks or does Matt Eber floose who's worked 22 hours a day getting ready for the guy that helped getting fired last year and do the Cowboys have some solutions this week?
- [60:44]
B
Boy, that's fascinating, isn't it? And we haven't really even talked about like Jadevian Clowney and what he might bring to the table, which, which I think is probably a really good football player, especially in this group of edges. I, I don't. I hate to bring in Clowney because I do want to know how good Sam Williams and Ezraku and Nyland are. But Clowney is probably instantly your best defensive end. And so are you going to deactivate James Houston, who's been making a play every year?
- [61:22]
A
I'm starting him.
- [61:23]
B
I know. Okay. Okay. Well, whose city your second round round.
- [61:27]
A
Draft or Sam Williams, who you hope.
- [61:31]
B
Dante Fowler, A lot of money. I mean, what do you do?
- [61:34]
A
That's a good one. That's a good one. All right, let's see what happens against the Bears and let's reassemble here to try to solve all the Cowboys problems next week. What do you say?
- [61:44]
B
I can't wait. This is an honor and a pleasure. And we've now done two about it.
- [61:51]
A
And an update on the Cowboys band next week.
- [61:54]
B
Yes. Okay.
- [61:55]
A
The Musers, the podcast. Cowboys Edition. Football Friends. Thanks to our producer, Peter Welton. And we'll talk to you again next week. And Doug, here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
- [62:27]
B
Limu.
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A
Is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com. liberty. Liberty.
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B
Liberty.
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A
Liberty Savings.
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B
Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.