Loading summary
Transcript174 lines
- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by indeed. You're ready to move your business forward, but first you need to find the right team. Start your search with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It can help you reach qualified candidates fast, ensuring your listing is the first one they see. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs are 90% more likely to report a hire than non sponsored jobs. See the results for yourself. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. It's the Musers the podcast Cowboys Edition. George Dunham, Bob Stern, and we are football friends through thick and thin, through good times and bad, through wins and losses. And what a loss for the Cowboys this past Sunday night in Arlington. Vikings 34th, Cowboys 26. Dallas drops to six, seven and one. With three games left. It's. It's over. As far as the playoffs go, yes, they're still mathematically in there, but the Eagles are. They've got their own drama to deal with. And it shows you how bad the Raiders are with what they did to the Raiders. But the playoffs are gone. There is no hope for that. But wait, Bob, do you hear that?
- [01:23]
B
What is that?
- [01:24]
A
I hear sleigh bells.
- [01:26]
B
I do, too.
- [01:27]
A
And I. I've heard that if you hear sleigh bells, that means there's still a chance for the post season. So don't give up on it yet. If the Cowboys went out and the Eagles lose out, why, that would put the Cowboys in the playoffs, Bob.
- [01:42]
B
It would. It would. Boy, what a. What a beautiful Christmas miracle that would be, Georgie.
- [01:47]
A
Yeah, but that's what it's going to take. This season, for all practical purpose, is over. We'll talk about what they're still playing for. I still think there is some significance to these last three games for what we've been talking about the last month when this, you know, it started to look doubtful that they were a playoff team.
- [02:07]
B
Yeah.
- [02:08]
A
Okay, Bob, why can't this team with their backs against the wall and you could decide, well, they won the Eagles game, they won the Chiefs game. Okay, but this is a conference game. And those other games, you were not technically out of it. If you lost those games, you. Those were your best two games of the year. I guess you could go back to saying, well, four games, 17 days just took it out of this team, man. Maybe. But to me, the Vikings game just confirmed. This is not the doomsday defense. This is the get right defense. If your offense wants to get right, play the Cowboys and you score 30.
- [02:47]
B
Yeah, it's. It's brutal, you know, and that's that's the thing. My, I guess the, the biggest takeaway I would have when I look at this team and what we've seen, especially the last two weeks, where suddenly they put themselves back in a position to, to kind of have dreams again. You know, you're allowed to, to wonder what might be around the next corner. And what we learned there, unfortunately is you can't trust these guys. You can, you can, you can actually be happily surprised when you have no expectations. Like they can beat both teams from the Super Bowl. The second you throw out something like expectations or the very, very folly filled idea of looking at the upcoming schedule and saying, well, that's a win and that's a win, well, you can't trust these guys. And you know, we've seen that too much. This is actually consistent over many, many coach and it seems like they usually hit home at the Death Star George because I guess when there's a home game we are predisposed to expect good things. But how many of the most gutting cowboy performances of this generation have happened where they go out in their own stadium and the crowd has started to believe in them again and people have showed up to enjoy a celebration and the failed smile and the thousand yard blank stairs are there early in the game and we're all like, how the heck did we fall for the football? Being pulled away again by Lucy at the last second. Like how. How did we, Charlie Brown ourselves to thinking that JJ McCarthy and an already eliminated Vikings team would roll in here and basically have the best day of their season?
- [04:42]
A
Well, and I swear we say this at the end of every year, some sometime around now or January, we look at Scrooge McJones and we think, okay, he's had his fingerprints all over what's gone wrong with this franchise for the last 30 years. Last year, inactivity just sabotaged McCarthy's last year. This season. Okay, if you've said this many times and you're exactly right, I've, I've said it till I was blue in the face because I was not a huge Micah fan. If you're going to trade him, that's fine, but you do not trade him a week before the season starts. This is something you get done back before the draft or if you don't, then he's on your team next year. You don't do that to your team. So that's a sabotage. And then when you hire from within and we're both team shoddy. Love him. I think he's great. He's Doing some good things. But you don't detonate that before it begins by saying, yeah, Shoddy, you're our guy. And, oh, by the way, I hired your defense coordinator for you. No, that's not the way it works, Bob.
- [05:56]
B
No, but it is the way it works around here, and that's. And that's where we are. You know, I was, I was even looking at this. I've got a. I've got a bunch of stats for you today that I think will. Will wow you or depress you, depending on your situation.
- [06:08]
A
But hey, between the Cowboys and North Texas, I'm just dealing in football depression right now. I'm.
- [06:13]
B
Yeah, no, there's a lot of that.
- [06:15]
A
Football I think I've ever had.
- [06:17]
B
Yeah, I'm sorry about that, man. This is. Maybe we need to play the Sleigh Bells one more time to remind us that everything's going to be cool.
- [06:24]
A
Keep listening for him. I may hear them. But maybe there's hope out there somewhere for. For the Cowboys.
- [06:29]
B
Yeah.
- [06:30]
A
And, oh, Santa says yes, there's hope. There's hope. Wait a minute.
- [06:35]
B
We have hope again. So, so here's. Here's the first one I'll share with you. And this one is a. Is a rough scene to say the least. So over the Mike McCarthy five years, 2020-2024, when the Cowboys were three point favorites or more, I saw this number.
- [06:53]
A
This is amazing.
- [06:55]
B
They were 34 and 9. That is 79% as a favorite, they would hammer those teams. Now, that actually was twisted into a negative as Mike McCarthy can only beat bad teams and only win when you're favored. But that was. That was the characteristic. If you look back at that team for five years, the, the enduring memories should be that Dak Prescott went from a good to a very good quarterback and that the Cowboys won nearly every game they should have won and nearly every home game along the way. Great at home, 34 and 9. Well, the problem is the. And by the way, they were that 79%. If, if people are wondering for some perspective on that number, here it is. They were second in the NFL and win percentage as a favorite. Only Kansas City was better. So here we are in 2025, and as three point favorites, the Cowboys are 2 and 3. That is a 40% win percentage when you are favored to win. Some of those disappointments would be Chicago, Arizona, Arizona, and now Minnesota.
- [08:13]
A
Yeah.
- [08:15]
B
So you were favored in all three of those games. I want to say the Carolina game might also be on that list, but I got them at 2 and 3. So maybe I'm wrong on one of them, but these are games where you are favored. The station is unanimously picking the Cowboys to win this game. Everybody is like, okay, well, we got this one at least. And. And they lose those games at a rate that is worse than every team in the NFL. But two. And I'm curious if you know those two teams that are actually worse as favorites in 2025 than the Cowboys.
- [08:50]
A
Worse. Is this a good team?
- [08:53]
B
One is a traditionally great team, Kansas City. And then Kansas City, as is only four and six as a favorite this year of three points or more, including their loss to Dallas.
- [09:04]
A
Baltimore. Be the other.
- [09:06]
B
The other would be the Atlanta Falcons, who are, I think, winless as a favorite this year. They are a team in July that I thought, you know, this is probably the best team in the afc, in the nfc North, South. Yeah, I know my divisions, trust me. But anyway, they. So.
- [09:28]
A
So this is. This is.
- [09:29]
B
They are not trustworthy. They can beat anybody on their schedule. They also can lose to anybody on their schedule. And, you know, people say, well, that. That's everybody in the league. Well, it kind of is. But remember, for five years under McCarthy with Dak, they were 80% as favorites, and now they're kind of losing these games traditionally. And this one looked like a trap, except there were two things that kind of felt. It made it feel unlike a trap game, which is a quarterback who is way too green to take advantage of you in JJ McCarthy and a team that is beat up and eliminated. Remember, Christian Darrisa did not play their very fine big ticket left tackle, and their season's over. So, I mean, you know, what's.
- [10:17]
A
What's.
- [10:18]
B
What's the point for the Vikings to show a lot of fight in this game? The Cowboys have to have this game to keep the pressure on Philadelphia. And so, you know, I mean, honestly, it's. It's more of the same from both sides of the ball. For me, when I look at the most frustrating thing about this offense, it's that they have a lot of fancy numbers, Georgie, but they just don't get the proceeds from those fancy numbers as much as they should.
- [10:47]
A
Which.
- [10:47]
B
Which is a. You know, again, we'll go back to Parcells. Every 100 yards needs to be seven points. So. So this team is consistently in the 4 to 450 range, which consistently should get you to 28, 31, sometimes 35 points. And they're just leaving points everywhere. Their. Their red zone is bad. Their third downs were the worst they've been in ever on Sunday night and, and you know, then they're missing field goals now, so you're just leaving points everywhere. And that opened the door and then the inefficiency of the defense would match it.
- [11:26]
A
Well, yeah, we're about to talk about the ridiculous defense in the future for Matt Eber fluss around these parts.
- [11:34]
B
They'll get their turn.
- [11:35]
A
And Shoddy has some limitations with what he's dealing with at offensive tackle. You know, at running back, there's virtually no depth. I love Malik Davis and he's, he's proven to be a nice little backup, but they don't, they don't have that home run guy, you know, who can once he's through all of a sudden make a guy miss and he's gone. They still need that. And I think that would get you in the end zone. But I got to say, these last two games and again, team shoddy, team shoddy team shot. Love him, love him, love him. Hadn't been his best two weeks, you know.
- [12:14]
B
No, no, he, he was, he was badly out coached in both games. And, and I say that as a head coach and I say that as an oc. I think, I think Detroit and Minnesota were doing largely the same things to his offense. And, and this is where I need my offensive mastermind and my quarterback, frankly, to, to dial up better solutions. And, and it, it really never got better. CD Lamb did everything you could ask in both games. And you know, I know Dak is fighting his tail off and getting hit all the time and under duress at a high, high level. I think Sunday was like the highest of his career, in fact, like at 50% and still, you know, you just look at where was my pass protection, where is my timing on my, my passing game? Where is George Pickens? Where are my solutions to kind of put the defense in a vice if they're going to show seven pre snap @ the line of scrimmage, man, I've, I've got to be able to take them apart with some wider splits and isolate guys and just figure out a way to, you know, make them pay. And I never made them pay to the last snap. I never made the Vikings pay. They were able to do. They were able to throw cover zeros at you all night. I mean, that should be.
- [13:36]
A
Detroit. Yeah, that should be home runs all over the.
- [13:38]
B
Place. Yeah. Detroit challenged you. They, they like. And this is, again, this is. We thought we were pass this and this is the frustrating thing. And, and I know there are DAC critics out there who never budged from this idea that, you know, he's not 2017 Dak anymore. He's, He's. He's, you know, nearing Jedi status and 10,000 hours and all these things, I would say, because. And for many, many long stretches, he did look like he knew the answers to the test. And, and, and now we hit this very frustrating bump in the road again, where, you know, the quarterback and the OC don't have the answers for what appears to be the type of challenge you would throw at a rookie quarterback, which is, we are going to blitz you over and over and over again. And you never see like that to Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, because they would burn them and back them off and show them. Here's what happens if you don't respect me. And the Cowboys were unable to do that. Now, let me circle back to the running back thing, because I think you're exactly right. They don't have enough running backs. What they have is Javante Williams, who I love, and they have a bunch of small backups, and we could argue Jaden Blue versus Malik Davis, but to me, it's the same problem. And the same problem is if it's a safety or a linebacker blitzing through the a gap or off the edge or whatever, those guys have a really hard time standing their ground. And like Nicobi Dean just. He was destroying Javante, and Javante is my only running back who has a.
- [15:18]
A
Chance.
- [15:19]
B
Yeah. So. So again, they see that on tape and they say, okay, let's blitz. Here's what's good. Here's what's going to happen. We're going to attack those.
- [15:27]
A
Guys. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's been exposed. And again, as a shoddy defender and just as a fan, I just think he's done some really good things that this organization really needed. I have no defense for a couple people who've come at me this week and say it and said, hey, he just promoted from within. It's more of the.
- [15:45]
B
Same. It's like, yeah, well, I mean.
- [15:49]
A
Different approach, but, yeah, I guess I don't have a good defense for that. Help me.
- [15:53]
B
Out. Yeah, well, I mean, here's the thing. They're not wrong. And it maybe not be a shoddy thing. It might be an Eberfluss thing where when we talk about that in the next segment, we need to discuss, you know, the wisdom in having a guy like Schottenheimer, who knows every coach in the NFL he has a tie to somehow, and yet we're not using that to find the best defensive minds and Go find your version of Brian Flores or your version of Eddie, any number of these defensive dudes who have taken the Cowboys apart, like, that's, that's what you need. And we'll get to that in a second. I want to go back, though, to the other thing. So. So the running back problem is, is that as the season goes on, Javante is wearing down because you're using him so much. And you're not just using him and giving him the ball, you're using him in blitz pickup. And those collisions are actually worse than the actual carries because now he's got a sprinting safety or a sprinting Mike that he has to stand in front of that freight train and save his quarterback. Those are vicious, vicious collisions. And what is happening is it's taking his energy down. Well, you can't take him off the field because the smaller running backs behind him will get attacked more. This really became an issue when Hunter Lipke left the game. Is that now all you. Now all you have is a tiny backup, so you can go empty or you can bring in a tiny running back. And this is, you know, this is why Deuce Vaughn never had a chance, you know, to keep going back to this personnel department. When you look at the Vikings with Jordan Mason or you look at the packers with Emmanuel Wilson or the Bears, and you start going down all these teams that are doing well as an offense, their backup running back is like 225. And. And I just think there's a massive difference between 200 and 225 when it comes to protection and tough yards and winter football. And, and so I guess the takeaway is where I'm going with all this is your solution on Sunday night was running the freaking ball and, and, and getting play action off of it, but your roster did not allow you to do that. And so here's Javante at six yards of carry, but you're not feeding him the rock because you realize we have to be judicious in giving him the ball. So you, you know, that was your solution to killing the blitz, is having a work share at running back where you could just keep flipping them. But I think they now realize we only have one running back. I don't know if Miles Sanders getting hurt or Phil Mafa getting hurt were. But I mean, guys, it's a running back. There are guys on the street that would be able to do these types of things. And it's just sometimes you wonder if the personnel department and the coaching staff ever talk to each.
- [18:56]
A
Other. Yeah, yeah. This offense still needs some parts, there's no doubt about.
- [18:59]
B
It. But and their play action game, George, it's disappeared. And that's and you saw those splits with Dax numbers, right? 13 touchdowns and no interceptions in play action. 13 touchdowns and 10 interceptions or I think it is, or something along those lines with no play action. This team kills teams with play action and yet they ran almost none of it on Sunday night. Probably because they were dealing with a six and seven man blitz. You know, scare every single down and they just, they're just trying not to get their quarterback.
- [19:35]
A
Killed. Yeah, the offense is run into some roadblocks these last couple of weeks. There's no doubt. And but the problem with this team has been the get right defense, which we just can't get it right. But other teams can certainly figure it out. Let's go there next and the future of their defensive coordinator on the Musers the Podcast Cowboys Edition this episode is brought to you by.
- [20:02]
B
McAfee. Finish your fantasy lineup? No, but I'm joining this paid group chat with insider in from dude.
- [20:08]
A
Seriously, forward it to me. Security alert from.
- [20:13]
B
McAfee. That group's as legit as that knockoff jersey you're wearing. McAfee's Scam Detector is available in all McAfee plans for as little as $39.99 for your first year. Learn more at McAfee.com online.
- [20:26]
A
Protection football season is in full swing and underdog is the best place to get in on all the action. Whether you're into basketball, football, hockey, any sport, underdog is the Just pick a player and then go higher or lower on stats like rushing yards, receptions, touchdowns and more. Get your picks right and you can win up to 5,000 times your cash. This week I took higher on Justin Herbert's 212.5 passing yards and, ah, well, nuts. Download the app today and use the promo code musers to score $75 in bonus entries when you play your first $5. That's musers on Underdog make picks Win money must be 18 or older, 19 or older in Alabama and Nebraska, 1918 or older in Colorado for some games 21 or older in Arizona, Massachusetts and Virginia and present in a state where underdog fantasy operates, terms apply. See assets.underdogfantasy.com web playandgettermsdfs.HTML for details. Offer not valid in Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio or Pennsylvania. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org In New York, call the 24-7-HOPE line at 1-877-HOPENY or text HOPENY or 67369. Okay. We sometimes break things down, Bob, like who we defend and who we don't. Man, I. When I heard that Jerry had made the hire before he made it official that Brian Schottenheimer was his head coach, that Matt Eberfluss was going to be the defensive coordinator, I thought he's well liked here. Loved him in Indianapolis. That's what got him the Chicago job. He looked a little overwhelmed as a head coach in Chicago, that didn't work out very well. But defensively, yeah, he's considered reputation wise, a really bright guy. So all year long, as bad as his defense has been and as you mentioned, historically bad and third down defense and before Quinn and Williams got here, they were equal opportunity. They would let you run on them and pass on them. Run defense has gotten better. Past defense is still ridiculous, man. I'm sorry, I am. I've run out of defenses for him and I think he's. I still think this. I think both things can be true. You can be a good coach, but for whatever reason with a majority of these guys, they have on defense, some of them, it is a player problem. But part of the player problem is they ain't buying what he's selling. I don't know if you fix.
- [22:58]
B
That. No, I, he's. He's gotta go, George. I'm sorry, I. When whenever you call for a coach's head or fire eater, anything like that, it feels gross because it is a guy and it is a good guy and all these types of things. And more importantly with Cowboys football, you know, it's not the root of the problem. It's. It's. It's a byproduct, but it's not the actual disease. And, and unfortunately there's nothing we can do about that part. But we can look at the film and I know you do and I know I do. And this morning was a rough go because this morning was the defensive film study and trying to go through these plays and I've got like four of them at the top of my head and they all drive me absolutely.
- [23:51]
A
Crazy. Let's start with the. Let's start with the basics. Technique has been terrible with this team all year long. It doesn't matter if you are a defensive lineman, if you're a linebacker, or if you're a cornerback who falls down because of moves. The. I don't know what's going on. These are professional athletes and they look like they Never work on.
- [24:13]
B
Technique. Yeah, they're just not. They're just not fundamentally sound. And so I. It's the old discussion of is it scheme or is it talent? And of course, the answer is both when you're this bad. I mean, they're 30th and third downs. They're 30th in red zone. They're 30th in gold to go. They're 29th in yards against, 29th in yards per play, 32nd in passing yards per game, 30th in passing yards per pass. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, the play was great. And you know, you just, you just go up and down the list and you're just like, what, what are we good at? What's our identity? And dog, the comedy of having no defensive tackles and then acquiring three that all make $20 million is very funny. And Quinn is great and Kenny Clark is certainly good and OSA is very good. And so you got these. Now you've got defensive tackle, but you seemingly have nothing else. And if you just go down the plays that will stick in my head from this game and each one of them makes my blood pressure go up. George, the, the first one I would give you would be. And I'm not even sure if this is chronological order because my eyes are crossed now from looking at all this tape, but the, the JJ McCarthy bootleg touchdown on fourth down is Leo.
- [25:37]
A
Foul that he does the gritty. Who does the gritty at the three yard.
- [25:42]
B
Line? Yeah, he, he definitely, he definitely danced on your grave very early in the game there, and you really didn't make a pay for it. So that made me nuts. That Overshone is like, he's not the first level. The first level is Leopold and Leopard thinks Jordan Mason has the ball. Overshone sees Leopard go with such conviction that Overshone, you can see him when you're watching the film. He's like second guessing himself. Like, I'm pretty sure JJ's got the ball, but man, Leop is positive Mason has the ball, so maybe I need to follow him. And he kind of took himself out of the play. I, I think over shown gets there before McCarthy does, but we'll never know because nobody's within 25 yards of McCarthy because they both guessed wrong. So that's. That's the first one. The second one is C.J. hams touchdown. And this one is that. Okay, whose bust is this? And to me it looks like Kenny Clark is kind of playing his own game. Like he's, he's lining up. I think it's o', Neill, the right tackle for the.
- [26:55]
A
Vikings.
- [26:56]
B
Okay. And he's doing, like, the Oklahoma drill with o' Neill and running the guy so far into the backfield, it's comedy. But he, in doing so, he opens up a hold where CJ Ham can do the fullback dive and go in untouched on the goal line, which. That's crazy. I don't know if I've ever seen.
- [27:16]
A
That. Yeah, just.
- [27:17]
B
Pitiful.
- [27:17]
A
And. Yeah, keep.
- [27:19]
B
Going. And so Kenneth Murray, if we may say, Kenneth Murray is your 1 second level linebacker, and he is getting the front side, like, C gap. And I guess what I'm saying is, if that's Jamar Gibbs, you probably have to get to the C gap because he's too fast for you to wait. But that's C.J. ham, George. I think that's the first carry of the season for the Vikings fullback, if I'm not mistaken. I might.
- [27:45]
A
Be.
- [27:46]
B
Wow. But he's not. The point is he's not fast. It's like your kicker. Okay. I bet you if their kicker and CJ Ham had a race, it would be a really close race. But the point is, I want my Mike linebacker to, like, read out the play and to say they just gave the ball to the fullback. Do I stand where I am and meet him in the hole? Or do I guess that he's about to bounce this outside before he even does? Because watching Murray on the play, he's going to get his gap out there, but the play is never, ever, ever going out.
- [28:23]
A
There.
- [28:23]
B
Yeah. Have you ever seen a fullback bounce it three gaps down to the.
- [28:28]
A
Outside? No, but we've seen everything with this defense this year. It's just.
- [28:32]
B
Like.
- [28:32]
A
Yes. I've never seen receivers so open as we've seen them this.
- [28:35]
B
Year. Okay. Yeah, so. So that's. That's play number two. I'm going to. I'm going to do all four. Play number three is the fourth and three at. Early in the. In the fourth.
- [28:47]
A
Quarter.
- [28:47]
B
Yeah. And so. So this is the one where I got to give it to J.J. mcCarthy. He threw a couple unbelievable dimes. And. And. And he deserves some credit. And the Cowboys deserve credit for pumping his tires so full of confidence that he almost had a blowout of. He had so much confidence in him, George. He was making every throw like he was playing 7 on.
- [29:09]
A
7. Again, I got news, which is what happened. It's not that easy in the.
- [29:12]
B
NFL as opposed to Sunday night, honestly. You know, this is. This is why 7 on 7 is. Is a really misleading thing to evaluate Quarterbacks. Because any quarterback worth his salt can kill seven on seven. Why? Because there's no pass rush and there's no fear of harm. Yeah, and fear of harm is what separates the stud quarterbacks from the. The, you know, the fakers. Well, he was not getting touched the whole night. There's no pass rush. The Cowboys. The Cowboys are going to be led in sacks by a guy who they didn't want to put on their roster, James Houston. And he's going to have fewer than six sacks, probably. And that's just where we are. They have no pass rushers, but on this play, fourth and three with actually 247 to go in the third quarter. They're at the Cowboys 37 yard line and they're down six. So O' Connell's like, yeah, let's go for it. Let's go for it a lot. We got nothing left to play for. Let's see if this quarterback can do things. The Cowboys rush Two guys. Two. And J.J. mcCarthy's back there making a ham sandwich, and he gets the mustard out. He's taking his time and. And he. Because he has all the time in the world. I'm looking like, where are the other nine Cowboy defenders? Where are they? And I actually posted it on Twitter today, and it looks like they're playing six across at the sticks, maybe guarding against another McCarthy.
- [30:48]
A
Bootleg. Unknown zone defenses, too, that I've never seen before. I've seen.
- [30:52]
B
This. Nobody knows what you're running. It looks like three guys are in, man. The other four are, like, loitering. I don't.
- [31:00]
A
Know. I don't.
- [31:01]
B
Know. Waiting for the bus. I don't know. But anyway, McCarthy had to make a great throw, and he did, but he had zero pressure. They could have got to 10 Mississippi and he. He put a great pass on to. Was it Addison? Who. Who.
- [31:15]
A
Knows? For the first down. Yeah.
- [31:17]
B
Yeah. The fourth one is the one where I said, okay, we need to fire this guy. So there's three minutes to go in the game. It's fourth and one from midfield. The Cowboys are down eight. The Vikings actually take a timeout, George, because there. This is a big play for the Vikings. We can go steal a game in D. Let's make sure our Ducks are in a row. I want to point that out, because if they take a timeout, you also get a timeout at the same time, and you just go over the sideline and you're all like, okay, let's. Let's make sure we're sure. What defense are we running? Here, what are we doing? It's fourth and one. I'm going to guess that every team in the league on fourth and one wants to run the football possibly with a quarterback sneak, tush push something of those of that nature. But if not, let's go give it to our running back and if we have numbers, let's try to hit it up inside there and go get one yard and win the game. The Cowboys leave the timeout and to be fair, Quinn and Williams had been hurt earlier, but you still have several, several defensive linemen who are able and they come out in their nickel defense with their pass rush four that we've talked about with Ezraku, who's undersized Clowney, and they're both playing like wide edges, like they think we're going to pass rush here. And then you have Kenny Clark and O Diggy Zua inside and then you have four guys at the second level. Well, the second level, George, is four yards deep and it's fourth and one. They need 36 inches to end the game. You have a giant, and I mean giant bubble in the A gap and then a giant bubble in the opposite B gap. Now, a bubble means it's a uncovered gap by anybody at the first. And the reason I say this is we are used to goal line defenses. And what does that mean? You've got six or seven big dudes all lined up across the line. Why? Because we cannot give up a single yard. I submit to you, George, that the Cowboys must have thought it was 1st and 10 or something coming out of that timeout. I don't know. How do you know it's 4th and.
- [33:33]
A
1? They knew that down in distance and it's the game on the line. I mean, they played like they.
- [33:38]
B
Didn'T. It's 4th and 1 and the Vikings hand the ball to Aaron Jones and he gets four yards right up the middle because it's five on two. It is five Vikings off at the lineman against Kenny Clark and Odiggy Zua. Nobody else is even in the.
- [33:55]
A
Play. I can't wait for the hard knocks to come out on this because the network cameras, I don't read lips very well, but Shotty clearly said, what the F are we doing at one.
- [34:06]
B
Point, what the effort.
- [34:08]
A
Doing. And I think he has said that a lot this year. So, yeah, I think it's. For whatever reason, it's just not. It's not working here. And they're going to have to bring in their fourth defensive coordinator in four years. Who that is, I have no idea. You have any name, you have any ideas? You have any good ideas or. Nobody from the college game.
- [34:30]
B
Or. I really don't. But this is where I'm going to assume that five years or whatever it was in Seattle. And, you know, I feel like Schottenheimer has a real strong knowledge of defensive minds in this league. And whether it be the Dan Quinn tree or the Pete Carroll defensive tree or whatever he wants to pick from, I just, I just, I can't. I can't tell you how underwhelmed I was. And I bet you maybe we even have audio of this from early in the season, although we probably didn't start soon enough. But if we would have talked about this, you're telling me we're going back to Marinelli? Because when we were doing Marinelli, it was. It's the Monte Kiffin Cover 2 Tampa 2 defense, the bend, but don't break. I don't believe in blitzing. I really don't believe in man coverage. We're going to go back to that. When we left it in 2018, we said it's an outdated defense, that the new offenses of this league just absolutely hammer. Like this is. We are. We're in the wrong decade defensively. So there's no question, no question whatsoever, this defense is short of talent. Badly. Badly. And we can, we can go player by player when the season's over. And trust me, we'll have, we'll have hot takes on all of them. But this scheme, man, I mean, on fourth down and inches, I've. I can't have nickel out there. I can't have four guys on the line and two of them are outside the tackles. Like, you've never, You've never played goal line defense before on 4th and.
- [36:15]
A
1. No, they don't. I, they don't line up right. And this is. I don't know how accurate. Well, no, I think it is accurate because this is what I've seen all year long. And I related to a story from my own life. And I didn't play in the NFL, but when I was in college, I used to play a lot of pickup basketball, sometimes just like two on two. And I had a friend named Andy who played high school basketball, really good player. And we'd go up to the park and we'd play guys two on two. And he wanted to win every game. And one game, we were just getting smoked. And it was mainly because of me. I was not. I'm not a great basketball player, as you know, Bob. And I was, you know, at the Time. It's. You can't look at me now and say, well, clearly you're not going to play defense. But at the time I was in shape and I could play a little bit of defense, you.
- [37:06]
B
Know.
- [37:07]
A
Right. And so it's always weird when you're playing pickup basketball and you hear someone say, timeout, but my friend Andy said, timeout. And he came over to me and he said, do you have no pride whatsoever in your soul to play just a little bit of defense? That's all defense is. That's a different game. But I do think it applies to football. You look at these other defensive units and they play with a man. This is a fight to the death. And I'm not questioning the effort here of the Cowboys defense, but again, this points back at the coordinator to me that sometimes it looks like they're kind of going through the motions because they're not sure what they're doing, why they're doing it, and they don't believe it's going to work. And that's why you see Kenny Clark doing his own thing. I saw your diagram of that fourth and three play. That's why we've seen Kenneth Murray, as I like to say, playing electric football and vibrating in space. What is he doing? He's right out in the middle of the field doing nothing, just vibrating next.
- [38:16]
B
To. He's standing next to James Houston, who's doing the same thing, and there's nobody there. They're standing next to each.
- [38:21]
A
Other. That electric football, I thought it was the be all, end all when I was a kid, but it's the most frustrating game the Cowboys in 2025. Their defense has been electric football. The guys don't do what you. Okay, yeah. This guy's going to run into this guy and fill that gap. No, it never works. The guys go in circles and guys run by them. And that's. That's what the Cowboy defense has been this.
- [38:44]
B
Year. Well, and look, neither of us have coordinated a very good defense in our life. And so we're not here to tell you we have all the answers. I am here to say if I'm playing JJ McCarthy and I've watched the Vikings play, which I have, I am not going to let him be that comfortable on a fourth and.
- [39:04]
A
Three. Thank.
- [39:05]
B
You. In the second half of a game I've got to win, I am sending my dudes to go get him. The Cowboys on that fourth and three at the most generous you can say is it's a three man rush. But I really think that Sam Williams is out there with Hawkinson. So I think it's a two man rush. And if you are going to let a guy who's won a national title at Michigan sit back there with a two man rush against five protectors, that means he has all day to get his feet, to get his comfort, to pick his throw. Now there's not anybody open, really. That's the thing is if you have eight guys in coverage, there's. The guys are covered. But the point is why, why on all of these plays do I have to beg you to try to make it a little more chaotic when you're watching the other half of the game and Dak doesn't have a comfortable throw most of the entire night? And what Brian Flores is not saying, man, I want to triple every receiver, but I want to give Dak Prescott all day. No, no, he's saying I want to hurry everything so George Pickens can't even get 20 yards down the field. And Dak already has had to dump the ball down to Malik Davis because he has no other choice. So he doesn't have a separated shoulder. And I don't understand this Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, and now Matt Eber Flutes idea that blitzing is of the devil or something like, we can't do that. That's, that's not gentlemanly. It's like, bro, this is how it works in this league. You affect the other team's quarterback or you make every quarterback you play look like Joe Montana, which the Cowboys have done this.
- [40:53]
A
Year. Is there any potential between Jerry and Shoddy going round and round over Eber Flutes? Because it was Jerry's guy. And Jerry's going to say, no, no, he's going to be okay. Or has Jerry been so frustrated by this that he will, you know, let Shotty do what he wants to.
- [41:13]
B
Do? It's a good question. And, and I guess that leads to the next question of is Brian Schottenheimer even the one to ultimately say, look, Jerry, you want it one way, but I need it this other way? And. Or is he a very compliant Jason Garrett type? So that's, that's my first thought, but my second thought is usually the saving grace on this topic, which is if you're Jerry Jones, you have to come back to the question of is it the talent or is it the scheme? And if it's the talent, you're blowing the whistle on yourself. So we know how that works. He is going to tell you that we've got the guys, they're just not being coached up. And therefore that's why I believe if you were to ask me today, that we're seeing the last couple of games of Matt Eberfluss moving forward, and I'm totally fine with that. But I will say the correct answer is it's both the talent and the scheme. And now without a second rounder who you gave away for Quinn and and a third rounder that you gave away for Pickens, you don't have any picks this year. You've got two ones and then day three. So I think if I were to guess right now, they're going to take one of those ones and try to trade back for a two and a three probably. And so we're just going to be running in place. Yeah, they're not even going to use the two ones. Like, honestly, what you should do is you should take those two ones and go get two really fine defensive pieces, probably a pass rusher and probably a linebacker, and go to work next season with a better scheme. But I kind of know how they think and I think they'll be chasing those two day two picks so much that they'll actually try to cash out of the first round and get a second and a third. Well, it's hard, which will make me.
- [43:07]
A
Crazy. I know it's hard to have much hope for a quick turnaround, no matter who the defensive coordinator is and no matter, you know, what they get in the draft. It's just, it's hard to have a lot of okay, Santa says that there's hope in the future. I don't know if that means three years or next year, but there's a little bit of hope. All right, there's not much hope in making the playoffs, but there's three games left. What the Cowboys can still accomplish is what we'll talk about.
- [43:36]
B
Next. Witness the colossal boxing showdown nobody expected Live on Netflix. International superstar Jake Paul, the sport's most watched fighter, takes on Britain's two time unified heavyweight world champion and Olympic gold medalist Anthony AJ Joshua in the most dangerous and defining matchup of their careers. This is Judgment Day. Watch Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua.
- [44:02]
A
Friday, December 19th at 8pm Eastern, 5pm.
- [44:05]
B
Pacific Standard Time Live on.
- [44:07]
A
Netflix. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor. State Farm is there prices are based on rating plans that Vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. It's a bad place to be when you still have football to be played in your. And the Cowboys could be out of the playoffs by the time they kick against the Chargers on Sunday because Philly plays a day early. What do you think we're going to see from this team the next three weeks? I wouldn't mind three straight losses. I don't think you're going to see that. Might as well make that first pick as good as possible. But what do you think we're going to.
- [45:06]
B
See? That's a great question. The, the Chargers will, will definitely put you to the test. That's, you know, that's one thing I will say time and time again about Jim Harbaugh teams is that they're not fun to watch, but they are physical and they are going to dig up what you don't do well, try to work it against you. So that's my first thought is noon on Sunday. Wow, a noon game, huh? That's what I think it is. It's such that I am under the impression that that will be a pretty physical football game. And so we're going to see what the Cowboys, how bad they want to fight the rest of the way and then, you know, then we have to explain to our wives Christmas Day at noon is a game against two teams going nowhere. And, and from there we have a play out the string game against the Giants January 4th. So it's bleak right now. George, what do we expect? You know, there, there are some good things on this team and I, you know, when I write about this, this team, I appreciate people that are still interested in, in hearing what we have to say and reading what we have to say. And so I try to find a glimmer of positivity on each side of the ball when we, when we offer these presentations. And so on offense this week, I picked Tyler Smith. I thought he was fantastic. I thought he was destroying people. And unlike some of the other guys in his earning range, I will say that he looks well worth the money. And Tyler Booker looks like he's turning into a beast. And then defensively I thought this was the best game from Overshown. And, and if Overshone continues to play with instincts and energy and violence and a guy who looks like if you try to block him, he's going to fight like heck to get off the block. This is what I need from a linebacker. This used to be what we would Call a prerequisite for playing the position. Overshone seems to play that way. And so, you know, if, if Tyler Smith and Tyler Booker and Overshone are what we think they are, and we already know Tyler Smith is. But if those pieces are, you know, what we think they are, then. Then this roster, you know, continues to. To have a lot of bright pieces to it. So I guess in these final three games, the long answer, the scenic route is you just want to see hope. You want to see things out there that, that make you feel good about how far this team might not be away. And it's just. It's just too rare, George. There's just too many things on this team that are ordinary and the stuff that is good is unfortunately not good enough. And that's, that's probably, that's probably the bummer of this is that now these last two weeks makes you think your offense is really good at fantasy football numbers but. But not good enough at real football. Efficiency and.
- [48:17]
A
Precision. Yes. Well, speaking of offense, it's not as if they have a great number of players that we haven't seen much of that we'd like to see. But speaking of Jaden Blue, let's see him. Let's see what you got there. A little bit of it. And then. And let's really find out who you're. They're gonna have to draft another offensive.
- [48:38]
B
Tackle. I wish the answer was no. I just don't know that you can afford to rule it out. Yeah, it's just. How are we still doing.
- [48:52]
A
This? Guys are very.
- [48:53]
B
Good. No. And again, that decision, I would have to go back and look at it because it's the 2024 draft and there were a ton of offensive linemen taken in that draft. But the, the cleverness of we're missing a third rounder so let's trade back, pick up a pick. Or maybe they were missing a fourth rounder. That must have been the Trey Lance draft. But they. I remember the whole first round idea was to drop back five or six spots and to grab Guyton and then we'll have an extra pick in the third and then we'll use that for bb. And that. That was great. Unfortunately, your second rounder and your other third rounder were Marshawn Neyland. Rest in peace. And Maris Liafile. And so.
- [49:42]
A
You'Re. By the way, I'd like to see a lot more of him. I know he's had goof ups, but let's find. I don't think he's been given enough.
- [49:49]
B
Plays. No, it's weird. It's. It, I mean, it's kind of Mozzie Smith, obviously at a lesser price, but when you look at Leo, foul and blue and Mozzie and all these guys, many of us on the outside are basically saying, hey, we need to see these kids. And it seems like the Cowboys are always saying, yeah, we see them every day, we don't want to put them on the field. And you know, the member, Jalen Tolbert was also in this category. And like I always think as fans or as media, we think that we want to see their draft picks because we don't know the answers. But the guys who see them every day feel like they already do know the answers and it's not good. And then what do you do from there? Do you, do you develop them? Do you discipline them? Do you find a way to reach them so that it doesn't turn into a completely worthless asset? Because I just, I just don't know. I guess Flournoy is a good example of staying with somebody and ultimately they turn into a better version of themselves. But, but, but there's just not enough of that. And, and you know, when you talk about leophil, you're talking about a high third round pick. These guys have to pay off. And, and it's just, it's just too much of. We're seeing retreads out there almost because they know where they're supposed to be, but they don't do anything that is high level out there where you say, man, I can't take this guy off the field. Like for instance, I, I would already like to say a month into Logan Wilson, like, why did you guys want him so.
- [51:28]
A
Badly? Yeah, he hadn't looked that great.
- [51:30]
B
Either. Well, and they don't really, they don't set sail with him. They don't, they don't say like they still have real tiny packages for these guys, but they don't commit to them. And so I don't know, I.
- [51:47]
A
Hey, okay, how about this? At the linebacker, let's see, Wilson, Leo, foul and James get most of the snaps. Not that they're always going to have three linebackers.
- [51:56]
B
But. Well, you want overshown out there, don't.
- [51:58]
A
You? Oh yeah, overshone. But those three, you know, and I, I don't know exactly where you're going to play them, on what side and all that, but I want to see those three guys and for balance, for what you're saying, you're right. They see practice every day, they evaluate it, they have assistant coaches Going through that and marking stuff. And, And I'm just saying Marisol will get a lot more fired up about playing for his future against the Chargers than he will on an overcast day at a. With music thumping at the Star.
- [52:33]
B
That's.
- [52:34]
A
Yeah. And I think you're going to get a much better slate of evaluation on that than you would, you know, hey, it's another day at.
- [52:41]
B
Practice. No, I think that's right. I think that's right. And, and it's just, it's, it's, it's organizational continuity and, you know, it's just having a seamless philosophy from top to bottom of the Dallas Cowboys, and, boy, wouldn't that be a wonderful thing. And, you know, once upon a time, we thought we were on our path there, but these seasons, other than the sleigh bells that occasionally encourage us, these seasons all seem to go a very similar way, where at some point in December, we can no longer deny the truth. Were exactly in the same spot we were last year, being on the set of.
- [53:22]
A
Lost. You know, you try to get off the island and you just can't. We just can't find the answers as to where you are exactly. What is this? And. Yeah, yeah. But I do think, just to reemphasize what we've been saying this last month, I still think it rings true. The last three games are important for the head coach. Look, it didn't work out like we wanted here, but this is how we play. This is the standard, you know, if he has to sit guys down or whatever. But this is how we're doing business here. And maybe we didn't make it this year, but, by God, the next couple of years we're going to make.
- [53:56]
B
It. Do you think. I guess. I guess my first question should be, do you think Jason Garrett was in over his head? But then the second question, assuming you would say yes to that after 10 years, then my more important question would be, do you think Brian Schottenheimer is perhaps a slightly better marketed version of Jason.
- [54:22]
A
Garrett? That means that I will have fallen for the, the, the pitch by him. And I don't. I'm not willing to say that yet. That I've just. I think there is. I think that's. Well, I think that's half the battle as a coach to sell what you're trying to do. Now, he, he may be off on some of those things, and maybe this was. Hey, it's his first year as a head.
- [54:46]
B
Coach. It.
- [54:47]
A
Is. I would expect Brian Schottenheimer to be better at this next.
- [54:50]
B
Year. Okay. So the two specific attributes of Jason Garrett that. That made me think he was in over his head that I'm now starting to see with Shoddy, and it makes me a little nervous. Is number one, I don't know if he's willing to pound the table with Jerry Jones to say it's got to be this way. I don't know. Making it this way. And I tried your way. Now we need to try my way, or I'm not the right guy to coach your team. And I just kind of think that there's a selection bias in how we hire our coach that makes it known that Jason Garrett or Brian Schottenheimer are going to be very accepting of the terms of how did we get this job? We were agreeable, we were friendly, we didn't buck back. We colored inside the lines and we behaved properly, and that's why we got the job and that's why we'll keep the job. But nowhere in there does it say, pound the table because you're upset how the Jones family set.
- [55:58]
A
Things. I don't have the answer to that, but I at least believe there's a possibility. It may not be a pounding of the table, but it may be of Jerry. You hired me to do this job and call it the I'll go back to benching Lamb and Pickens. I don't know. That would. If that would have happened under Jason.
- [56:21]
B
Garrett. And then item two of Jason Garrett is a victim of his own conservativism and his risk aversion. And when I'm seeing a team kind of turn Brandon Aubrey into a negative because you're so in love with him kicking you field goals that you're never willing to match JJ McCarthy and Kevin O' Connell going for it on fourth downs and believing in their ability to make plays. Whereas you have Dak Prescott, CD Lamb and George Pickens, and you're running out the field goal kicker when you have to stop settling for three, you have to get seven, or you're letting this team stay in this game. And they. Doggone it, he did it in Denver. He didn't seem to understand the odds. Then in the Kansas City game, Nance and Romo are like, shoddy learned from Denver. He told us that he wants one of his assistants to slap him in the face if he ever gets too conservative again. Then he gets too conservative again against Detroit and Minnesota, where it's like, man, we got Brandon Aubrey. We got a sure three points. Let's just keep running them out. There. And they're trying to field goal their way to victories, and they're not good enough. They've got the worst defense in the nfc. Maybe the worst defense in the league, George. And yet they play. They kick field goals like they're the 2000.
- [57:44]
A
Ravens. They faked field goal, though. Do you like that one.
- [57:47]
B
Bob? It was sweet. That was pretty sweet. That was a sweet.
- [57:50]
A
One. I love the.
- [57:50]
B
Fact. Fortunately, unfortunately, Aubrey now has the Missy's. And. And. And you're giving them the ball at.
- [57:58]
A
Midfield.
- [57:59]
B
Yeah. Oh, yeah, I forgot the other stat. Okay, so we're running out of time, I.
- [58:03]
A
Realized. And by the way, the. Trying to save your vote. 51 and.
- [58:06]
B
59. Yeah. Which we should never assume are.
- [58:10]
A
Automatic.
- [58:11]
B
No. But here you go. The Cowboys have played 1079 games in their history in 66 seasons of football. 1079. I would imagine you've seen most of them at.
- [58:24]
A
Least. They started about 1971. I.
- [58:26]
B
Have. Yeah, that's right. Okay. There is one time in Cowboy history where the Cowboys gave up less than 330 yards, had zero giveaways. Zero. And still allowed 34 points or more than 28. Okay, so what we're saying is the Vikings had no yards on Sunday night and they had no turnovers, so they weren't given a defensive touchdown. They didn't have a kick return. They. They had to score all of their points the traditional way, but they had almost no yards. They still exceeded 28 with no gifts from the Cowboys. That is the first time in Cowboys history that's ever.
- [59:14]
A
Happened. Oh, my.
- [59:15]
B
Gosh. A one of one. Well, so we've had a lot.
- [59:19]
A
Of defense around here for the last 60 years.
- [59:21]
B
And.
- [59:22]
A
Yeah. Have we seen it go back to looking like something football's never seen.
- [59:29]
B
Before? So to bring it full circle, your offense was absurdly inefficient and had over 400 yards, but not enough to show for it. Your defense was the opposite. They allowed the Vikings to get tons of points. Again, the parcels. Seven points for every 100 yards. They had 327 yards and they ended up with 500 yards worth of.
- [59:52]
A
Points. Good.
- [59:54]
B
God. And you did not give them the ball.
- [59:58]
A
Once. That's.
- [59:59]
B
Amazing. Once. Like, it felt like you lost to the Vikings because you had four turnovers. You had zero. You also had zero sacks, and J.J. mcCarthy felt like a million bucks. And it's. It's really the type of game that makes you want baseball season to arrive or something. It just. As my dad would say, I always enjoy when Gordon talks about what his mom and dad would say, as dadisms. Yeah, because my dad. My dad would try not to swear. So he would say. He would look at all this evidence and say, this really makes my butt tired. And I never totally knew what a tired butt felt.
- [60:43]
A
Like. But now, after watching the film.
- [60:44]
B
2025 Cowboys, I think my butt is tired.
- [60:47]
A
George. And, you know, there was a lot of us when the season started that said. Well, I can't predict eight, Nate. Wait a minute. Yeah, you kind of can. I think this team's probably going to wind up 8, 8 and.
- [60:59]
B
1. Well, speaking of Jody, as somebody who laughed at the Vegas over under win total line of seven and a half and might have put my money where my mouth is, I would.
- [61:11]
A
Love. That's why. Okay, I know what we're playing for the last three weeks of the.
- [61:15]
B
Season. I gotta get two more wins, man. Santa needs two more.
- [61:20]
A
Wins. Well, you just never know if you're gonna get a win like that. You just gotta. Oh, there's a chance, Bob, that you may get that win. They may get eight wins before it's all.
- [61:30]
B
Said.
- [61:32]
A
Yeah. All right. Well, I don't know what we solved, but we sure had a good conversation about these. These crazy 2025 Dallas Cowboys, thanks to Peter Welton. Bob, are you still in the state of Texas next week? Are you in Wisconsin and or where are you next.
- [61:47]
B
Week? Depending on when we record? I will be in Texas and then Wisconsin and then back to Texas as fast as.
- [61:53]
A
Possible. Okay, well, I say we get together and talk about whatever we're going to see in the Chargers game. What do you think about.
- [62:00]
B
That? Oh, oh. Let me tell you something about football, friends. If you think we're dumping out of this season just because all hope is gone, you got.
- [62:09]
A
Another. We've come too.
- [62:10]
B
Far. No, we're giving you an episode right before Christmas, whether you want it or.
- [62:14]
A
Not. That's right. That's the. That's the football spirit I want.
- [62:17]
B
To hear, Bob, no matter how tired our butts.
- [62:20]
A
Are. That's.
- [62:21]
B
Right. You're getting an episode next.
- [62:22]
A
Week. We are tired. All right. He's Bob Sturm. I'm George Dunham. Thanks for joining us for the musers the podcast Cowboys.
- [62:30]
B
Edition. The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S. soccer.
- [62:40]
A
Podcast. This is the show where we bring you in depth interviews with U.S. soccer stars. This time, Sam.
- [62:45]
B
Coffey. The World cup is in two years. Is it time yet? Like, can we get back in.
- [62:50]
A
Into camp Tim radio dream? We're going to continue to show other countries we're not going to be pushed around. And Jedi Robinson, every time you come back and you put the jersey on, it means more and more each time. So we'll be back here with all the best.
- [63:01]
B
Stories. The.
- [63:02]
A
U. S Soccer podcast. We've got a lot to talk.
- [63:04]
B
About. Follow and listen on your favorite.