Cowboys Weekly Edition (vs Chiefs)

Summary

The Musers The Podcast: Cowboys Weekly Edition (vs Chiefs)

Date: November 25, 2025
Hosts: George Dunham & Bob Sturm
Summary By: Cumulus Podcast Network

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Episode Overview

This lively Cowboys Weekly edition of The Musers The Podcast digs into the thrilling Dallas Cowboys' comeback victory over the Philadelphia Eagles, explores what it means for the team's trajectory, and looks ahead to a Thanksgiving Day showdown with the Kansas City Chiefs. Iconic hosts George Dunham and Bob Sturm blend their classic Ticket banter with genuine football insights, covering play-calling decisions, Dak Prescott’s performance, comparisons of star receivers, and broader trends in the NFC and AFC. They also sprinkle in historical trivia and lighthearted musings about the Cowboys’ holiday traditions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Cowboys’ Rematch Win vs Eagles: Reactions & Analysis

• Fast Start and Nerve-racking Comeback:
  • The Cowboys climbed back from a 21-0 hole to win 24-21, avenging previous losses and energizing fans.
  • “When they put it together, when they can get some stops and they play offense like the way they like to play offense, they're a pretty good team.” — George (00:55)
• Eagles: Flawed But Resilient:
  • Despite their 8-3 record, Bob and George critique the Eagles as “gettable,” lacking the killer stats of a true contender. Home field means a lot in NFC playoff seeding.
  • “I just don’t think the Eagles are very good this year—and I think they know it, even if the record says otherwise.” — Bob (02:18)
• NFC vs AFC Quality Divide:
  • The AFC is seen as having a “higher level of quality” while the NFC is “incredibly gettable”—making Dallas’ chances more interesting (03:03).

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Key Moments, Plays & Coaching Decisions

• Brian Schottenheimer’s ‘Proof of Concept’ Game

  • Offensive Coordinator Schottenheimer needed a signature win, and creatively outmaneuvered the Eagles with chunk plays and aggressive attacking.
  • “Brian Schottenheimer needed this as like a—proof of concept is something I say—but just, a signature win you can sink your teeth into.” — Bob (04:45)

• Going for It on Fourth Down

  • The hosts debate McCarthy’s aggression:
    • “Are we too in love with 4th down, go for it, now in games where everything means everything?” — George (14:45)
  • Bob frames himself as an “analytics moderate” and discusses risk vs. field position (15:25).
  • The importance of adapting to opponents like the always-aggressive Nick Sirianni (16:08).

• Red Zone Play-Calling and Execution

  • Deep critique on decision to kick vs. go for the TD, especially from the 1- or 2-yard line, and the rise of analytics in playcalling debate (22:12, 24:13).
  • On passing from the 1-yard line: “I'm not saying tush-push, but there’s a world where there’s an easier way to score a touchdown.” — Bob (28:57)

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Offensive Outburst & Dak Prescott’s Star Turn

• Historic Yardage Against Eagles:

  • Dallas was the first team to put up more than 400 yards on Philly all season, finishing with 473 yards—an “enormous show of power.”
  • “They had nine yards a pass! … 24 points is a massive understatement. That was absurdly inefficient [for the Eagles defense].” — Bob (09:16, 10:29, 76:42)

• Dak Prescott’s Leadership & Romo Comparison:

  • Dak’s toughness, poise, and now franchise-best passing yards spark discussion:
    • “What Dak did on Sunday was terrific ... we don’t appreciate moments like this.” — George (08:07)
    • “He passed Tony Romo and became the Cowboys all-time leading passer ... They’ve almost had the same career as far as results.” — George (39:11)
    • “For a guy like him to almost become a bit of a Jedi master ... I think he has his master’s degree in quarterbacking now.” — Bob (43:40)
  • Notably, Dak has a lower interception rate (2.0%) than Romo (2.7%), despite a reputation for being less careful with the ball (41:00).

• Big Play Weaponry Surfaces at Last:

  • Cowboys had their season-high in “explosive plays” (seven chunk plays over 20 yards), with contributions from George Pickens, CeeDee Lamb, and KaVontae Turpin (12:08, 78:46).
  • “The Cowboys did a nice job of taking care of Jalen Carter all day … My offensive line can deal with the Eagles defensive line—because now I’ve seen it for eight quarters.” — Bob (27:37)

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The Pickens–Lamb Debate & Wide Receiver Culture

• George Pickens’ Breakout and “Problem” for Opponents:
  • Pickens’ emergence as a dominant force (described as “phenomenal” and “unbelievable”), while CeeDee Lamb faces scrutiny for drops and body language.
  • “I can’t believe that you can add them to an offense that has CeeDee Lamb.” — Bob (32:49)
• CeeDee Lamb: Underappreciated Warrior
  • Discussion of why Lamb “rubs people the wrong way”—with George and Bob analyzing everything from his Oklahoma affiliation to temperament.
  • “He’s a playmaker who’s tough as nails, a warrior.” — Bob (34:08)
  • Both agree: You keep both Pickens and Lamb — “force multipliers” you build around, not swap out (37:56, 106:59).

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Defensive Evolution & Looking Ahead

• Quinnen Williams’ Transformative Impact:

  • Since acquiring Williams, Dallas’ infamous run defense has rapidly improved, demoralizing sworn NFC East rivals and changing how teams scheme.
  • “Teams look at film of Quinnen Williams and Kenny Clark and they just say, yeah, let’s try something else.” — Bob (57:07)
  • “He had 8 pass pressures himself—how insane is that?” — George (58:20)

• Cowboys’ Thanksgiving Tradition & Chiefs Preview:

  • The discussion shifts to the big holiday matchup: the Chiefs, their strengths, and the potential for a shootout after the emotional rebound vs. the Eagles (45:32, 114:36).
  • A look at Chiefs’ strengths and vulnerabilities, especially on the road (47:26, 51:51, 121:01).
  • Both admit Dallas faces a dangerous, desperate Kansas City, but underscore it’s a winnable game in a wide-open NFL.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Eagles’ Flaws:
  • “If the Eagles can duct tape a one seed out of this offense … tip your cap to them.” — Bob (02:29)
• On Offensive Support for Dak:
  • “If you want to get Micah to a higher spot, add Quinnen Williams to Micah.” — Bob (38:42)
• On Analytical Decision-Making:
  • “I want to be an analytics moderate, George…” — Bob (15:25)
• On Pickens-Lamb Pairing:
  • “You should put them together for the rest of Dak’s prime." — Bob (37:56)
• On Dak’s Growth:
  • “Almost a Jedi master ... his body might be as good as it’s ever been, health-wise.” — Bob (43:40)
• On Thanksgiving Football Culture:
  • Anecdotes about Cowboys' past Thanksgivings, including a throwback to the 1975 NFL slate (59:52, 129:45).

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Cowboys-Eagles Recap and NFC Outlook – 00:22–04:10, 68:03–69:54, 73:28–75:19
• Brian Schottenheimer's Signature Win – 04:45, 70:30
• Aggressive 4th Down/Red Zone Decisions – 14:35–15:44, 22:09–28:56, 80:49–87:31
• Offensive Outburst and Statistical Notes – 09:00–12:13, 75:14–79:08
• Wide Receiver Conversation (Pickens/Lamb) – 31:10–39:11, 98:59–107:57
• Dak vs Romo, Leadership and Legacy – 39:11–44:03, 107:57–113:26
• Chiefs Thanksgiving Preview – 45:32–51:51, 114:36–122:50
• Defensive Transformation with Quinnen Williams – 54:01–59:03, 125:05–128:56
• Cowboys Thanksgiving History & 1975 Trivia – 59:52–62:29, 128:56–133:32

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a quintessential Musers mix of football smarts, opinionated debate, and affectionate nostalgia. With the Cowboys now positioned as a true NFC threat thanks to new firepower and a rejuvenated defense, the hosts are cautiously optimistic heading into Thanksgiving. They emphasize the importance of appreciating elite talent (Dak, Pickens, Lamb), the strategic value of aggression and adaptability, and the wild, week-to-week unpredictability that makes the NFL special. The episode closes with signature gratitude and teasing for next week's potentially era-defining Cowboys-Chiefs breakdown.

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For Fans Who Missed the Episode:
This is a must-listen for deep Cowboys insight, hilarious banter, and a breakdown of what Dallas’ latest win actually means. You’ll walk away understanding the stakes in the NFC, the analytical debates driving coaching trends, and why Dak’s journey is uniquely underappreciated—even as the Chiefs loom for Thanksgiving’s biggest stage.

Transcript

[George Dunham]

Foreign. It's the Musers. The podcast Cowboys edition Football friends George Dunham and Bob Stern, Happy Thanksgiving week to you. And the Cowboys cooked a bird on Sunday.

[Bob Sturm]

Bob oh, you got that right.

[George Dunham]

I think on this very podcast last week we talked about this being a real possibility. And sure enough, the Cowboys knock off the Philadelphia Eagles to go to 5, 5 and 1. And when it was 20, they went at 24, 21. When it was 21, nothing. I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I have to spend half my week just saying, okay look, I thought it was going to happen, but it didn't. And just the motions we go through. But then the comeback happened and we can talk. I don't think Philadelphia is quite right. I haven't thought it all year. I know they're 8 and 3 now and it sounded like a silly thing to say when they were 8 and 2. And I still don't think we have seen a full game of the Cowboys. Maybe we won't this entire season, who knows, we'll see. But man, when they put it together, when they can get some stops and they play offense like the way they like to play offense, they're a pretty good team.

[Bob Sturm]

Bob well, yeah, and I think this is the week we should really focus on our true insight and savviest football friends and talkers. George because we were all over this.

[Guest Analyst]

One and you know, I mean this.

[Bob Sturm]

Is what's fun about the playoffs, right? Where you just dig down on matchups and kind of talk about if these were the only two teams in the universe, you know, our team would look like this every week and their team would look like that every week. And it's a good conversation because now these two teams have played two tremendous, tremendously fun close games where I think the cumulative score this year is 45, 44 Eagles and that's over 120 minutes. Obviously Quinn and Williams only played in one of them and you know, CD Lamb has had big drops in both of them and you know there's, there's.

[Guest Analyst]

A lot of, there's a lot of.

[Bob Sturm]

Talking points but man, I'm sorry, I just don't think the Eagles are very good this year and I think they know it. And yes, there is a win loss record that's very important because not only is that the whole point of everything, but it also determines home field, it determines bye weeks. And if the Eagles conduct tape a one seed out of this offense that they have, then I think you tip your cap to them and you say that's incredible. That's incredible football management by a team that realizes they've got 99 problems, but they still figure out a way to win most weeks.

[Guest Analyst]

And the nfc, as we have talked about for like five years on this.

[Bob Sturm]

Show, the NFC feels incredibly gettable. Why? The AFC seems to require a higher level of quality if you want to rise to the, to the big game in February, as the commercials make us say sometimes.

[Guest Analyst]

And so, you know, I mean, it's just, it's, it's a getable conference.

[Bob Sturm]

So to me, that might explain, you.

[Guest Analyst]

Know, what the Eagles have been able to pull off. And that's not their fault. It's not like if there's a boxer.

[Bob Sturm]

Who'S a champion for five years, I mean, we can say he picked a great era to be in his prime. But, but that, you know, if you're number one, you beat everybody that they threw at you. And so honestly, that's what the Eagles do.

[Guest Analyst]

But they're so gettable themselves.

[Bob Sturm]

And, and you know, it would be like an NBA team being like, I don't know, 20 and five, but they're, they're 20th, they're 28th and three point shooting. And you would say, man, that's a great record, but you will not survive the playoffs unless you get these important stats worked out.

[Guest Analyst]

And that's where the Eagles are right now.

[Bob Sturm]

The good news for them, like I.

[Guest Analyst]

Said, they still have every reason to.

[Bob Sturm]

Believe they can get the one seed. They're one game behind the Rams. They beat the Rams head to head and like the luckiest win of the season with that blocked field goal return.

[Guest Analyst]

And you know, they're, if they get a bye week and they get to play all their games in Philadelphia, there's.

[Bob Sturm]

Going to be no reason to think they can't win two home games and go right back to the Super Bowl. So that is a flawed Eagles team. The Cowboys played a flawed game and still beat them. In fact, the Cowboys kind of set.

[Guest Analyst]

Their table all day. And, and I guess the takeaway for.

[Bob Sturm]

Me, George, is twofold from a Cowboys perspective, since this is a Cowboys and not a Birds podcast, as they might say. Although I know you can do either very well. But my two takeaways were very much. Brian Schottenheimer needed this as like a, oh, I don't know, proof of concept is something I say quite a bit these days. But just like a signature win, man, you can sink your teeth into. This is what it looks like when it goes correctly, right?

[George Dunham]

Absolutely. And they almost got that against Green Bay.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

But everyone holds that against them because they tied as if they were a part of an illegal game or something.

[Bob Sturm]

Right.

[George Dunham]

To me, that was still a pretty good result given the great result circumstances. Ties are weird and freak out about them.

[Bob Sturm]

But.

[Guest Analyst]

And by. By the way, George, if we were to circle back to Green Bay for a moment, take a look at Green Bay's points against every single week.

[Bob Sturm]

But that one.

[Guest Analyst]

Every single week, Green Bay has three losses. Three. And all three of them the opponent.

[Bob Sturm]

Did not score 17 points.

[Guest Analyst]

And so for the Cowboys to put.

[Bob Sturm]

Up a 40 burger against Green Bay, I mean, I think that is actually an enormous show of power because nobody else on Green Bay's entire schedule has.

[Guest Analyst]

Scored even 26 points. Not one. They've played 11 games and they have not given up more than 25 other than the Dallas game.

[Bob Sturm]

So.

[Guest Analyst]

So that's point number one, is that Schottenheimer needed it. Point number two, and I think this might even be more important, I love.

[Bob Sturm]

That this roster feels like a pack of dogs right now that are going to fight for 60 minutes at a very high level. And I think we saw a lot of zombies when McCarthy's era was winding down, including the game that killed his era, that Green Bay playoff game. And I love that 21 nothing did not feel too big to them. And as an observer now I want to be clear. I, I thought the interception in the end zone probably was the end of the day. So I wasn't there the whole time. But the second they had Turpin for 48 and the stadium started making noise again, still at 21 nothing, I thought.

[Guest Analyst]

There'S plenty of time and we know the Eagles aren't going to be scoring much more.

[Bob Sturm]

They're going to try to sit on the ball. And I really, really like the Cowboys chances of getting back into this game if they can. If they can snag a touchdown before halftime.

[George Dunham]

Absolutely. And then when they finally made it a seven point game in the third quarter, then you could really feel it. Yes. In the stadium that old Mo had had turned.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. I'm trying to think of the point where maybe it was that long, long Pickens catch that set him up. That's when the stadium, it seemed, started to really lose its mind and. And they ended up tying the game on that run. Yeah. And at that point I. Yeah. How about the Dak run? Wow.

[Bob Sturm]

Dak was sensational. He wasn't perfect, but he was sensational.

[George Dunham]

Perfect. And you know, we've said it before, it's tough being a quarterback in this town. And that we don't appreciate moments like this. And I'm telling you, with the way Phillies playing defense right now.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

Scoring 24 on them, leaving it at the three or wherever it was where they didn't make it in.

[Bob Sturm]

Right.

[George Dunham]

The six or whatever it was not making it in there. And with two turnovers, man. Yes, that is. That's some offense there and that's really impressive. And had they lost. Yeah, you would still would have had. And there's still plenty of questions about this team. But I still think what Dak did on Sunday was terrific. The throw in the end zone was not good. There was another one that Bond dropped. But you know, what do you know? He didn't catch it. So that's just kind of the way those things go.

[Bob Sturm]

Do you know how many times the Eagles have given up 400 yards in a game this season?

[George Dunham]

I'd say zero.

[Bob Sturm]

Well, zero until Sunday. Now they gave up 473 to the Cowboys.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, I knew the Cowboys had done it, but I shoot and okay throw.

[Bob Sturm]

And seven yards of play and we're.

[George Dunham]

Going to talk about CD Lamb extensively here in a second, but he hangs on to a couple of catches and it's over 500 yards of offense, dude. I mean, it was there for the taking.

[Guest Analyst]

The Cowboys had nine yards a pass. I just want so. So in this league, I want to say league average per per completion is.

[Bob Sturm]

Like six and a half. Okay. And just to let people know, the Eagles had played what, 10 games going in at 8 and 2.

[George Dunham]

Yep.

[Guest Analyst]

Here were their yards per pass per game.

[Bob Sturm]

5, 5 5656-6556-6968-6140 against Green Bay up there on Monday night? 6, 2 against the Lions. The high they had given up all season was 6.9 yards per pass. What did Dak have on Sunday with an interception? Another near interception.

[Guest Analyst]

Several drops.

[Bob Sturm]

Inefficient.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. 9.4. The high was 6.9. Dak had 9.4. Do people. So.

[Bob Sturm]

So I guess what I'm saying is.

[Guest Analyst]

Your point is spot on, but 24.

[Bob Sturm]

Points is a massive understatement.

[Guest Analyst]

That was absurdly inefficient.

[Bob Sturm]

That was a.

[Guest Analyst]

Honestly, that was a 31 or 34.

[Bob Sturm]

Point performance from the Cowboys. And. And they missed a field goal, turned the ball over in the end zone, were stopped at the 1. I mean, 24 is flattering to the Eagles. The Cowboys tore them up.

[Guest Analyst]

And here's another way to look at it.

[Bob Sturm]

So. And I wrote about this this morning on my sturm stack and that is the explosive plays.

[Guest Analyst]

So usually if you have a big.

[Bob Sturm]

Time offense, you're getting it because of chunk plays. Everybody. 20, 20 plus yards, right?

[Guest Analyst]

The Cowboys this year are not getting.

[Bob Sturm]

Enough chunk plays, which is weird because they have Pickens and Lamb, so it should be coming easier. But.

[George Dunham]

But.

[Bob Sturm]

And they're on. They're going to beat last year's pace, but last year's pace was a lot of Cooper rush, and so that's not doing as much.

[Guest Analyst]

But if you're second in the NFL in points and third in the NFL.

[Bob Sturm]

In yards, and I'm sure they went up in yards, so that is old, old information without last week's game. But they're second and third and points and yards. That's incredible. But they're 18th in explosive plays and we are basically underperforming chunk plays. And what the Cowboys did on Sunday is they got seven when their previous season high was five and they'd only done that one other time against the Jets.

[Guest Analyst]

The Cowboys are not getting big plays.

[Bob Sturm]

And on Sunday they got them against.

[Guest Analyst]

A team that never gives up big plays.

[Bob Sturm]

Seven. Yeah, so.

[Guest Analyst]

So it was a season high for the Cowboys, season low for the Eagles, and honestly, the success rate for the.

[Bob Sturm]

Cowboys run game was very mid. And so honestly, they hit a couple runs, Malik Davis even, and they pass protected really well. Dak got the ball out and gave.

[Guest Analyst]

His guys a chance to make some plays. And both of them, George. Well, all three of them, George Pickens, Cavante Turpin and CD Lamb all had 40 yard plays.

[Bob Sturm]

I mean, bro, that's awesome. In fact, all three of them. Well, no, not, not to.

[Guest Analyst]

Well, yeah, all three of them were.

[Bob Sturm]

Cooper, De Jean and so I don't know if Dak was looking carefully to find 33 out there, but it was a city and they play a lot of zone, of course, but not on that deep pass to Lamb. That's cover one. And not on that deep pass to Pickens. That's cover one. So for whatever reason, the Eagles put dejean on Lamb and Pickens in those moments and Dakota. Well, Dak threw an unbelievable ball to CD he kind of threw a. I bet you Pickens can just go get this one ball to Pickens. And both of them turned out great.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, I've heard this this week too, in reaction to the Eagles game, as you mentioned. It's a affirmation to what Brian Schottenheimer is trying to do, especially on the offensive side of the ball, that he got off to a rough start. Did he get off to A rough start or did they just not carry out the plan of the day? I. I can think of two instances. Let's talk about three points. Number one going forward on fourth and three at midfield. First possession, I didn't have a huge problem with it outside of this. Philadelphia is really good at red zone defense. They're really good at fourth down defense. Then the Lions just go over four the week before against them on, on fourth down. And the one thing that I thought going into this game the Cowboys couldn't afford were turnovers and brought that into the equation of, ah, shoot. All of a sudden now it's at your 49 yard line.

[Bob Sturm]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

And it's seven nothing. I can, I can live with that one, but that's one. Okay.

[Bob Sturm]

Were you, were you, were you punting there? Let's do it play by play.

[George Dunham]

Okay.

[Guest Analyst]

Would you.

[George Dunham]

Like I said, I'm 50. 50. I could see why you're kind of like, yeah, maybe you're kind of like Nico. Yeah, maybe. But my first thought was, oh, there's going to draw them, try to draw them offside. They're going to punt it. I, I guess I didn't have a problem with it, but I'll. I'll with this as in parentheses, are we too in love with 4th down? Go for it. Now, in, in games like this where everything means everything.

[Guest Analyst]

Well, yes, but it's for a good reason.

[Bob Sturm]

The good reason is you're, you're.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't want to go Greg Olson.

[Bob Sturm]

Here because I think Greg Olson is extreme in this matter and I don't believe in analytics extremism. I like to be. I want to be an analytics moderate. George, if you'll join me. No, I think moderate means I know the material, I understand the math, but I still have to use my brain at times.

[Guest Analyst]

But I am playing Nick Sirianni and.

[Bob Sturm]

Nick Sirianni or Dan Campbell or a few of these guys who go for it every time they're outside their own 40 yard line.

[Guest Analyst]

Then I can either choose to go completely against them or and basically let.

[Bob Sturm]

Them have a fourth strike every @ bat or I can try to match aggressiveness.

[Guest Analyst]

And, and so when I, when I wrote the preview for this game, I.

[Bob Sturm]

Said, listen, I was at the Monday night game in Green Bay against the Eagles and I saw the packers decide to basically try to out conservative the Eagles. And, and the Eagles are super conservative every week. The packers are becoming super conservative every week and it drives me nuts.

[Guest Analyst]

And I just don't think you can.

[Bob Sturm]

Out conservative the Eagles because they're really good at it. It's their entire ethos. They want to win 14 to 10, it seems like every week. And it's weird. I don't think you can win a championship that way. But that's, I guess what they've decided is their best way to win.

[Guest Analyst]

But anyway, it's fourth and three. It's the first possession you're at midfield and not only do you get cover.

[Bob Sturm]

One, but I think, I think Dak just threw a bad pass to Javante Williams. I also think, and I bet you saw this on film too, he passed up Jake Ferguson, who's wide open for like a 30 yard gain. Jake Ferguson's man fell down. Zach Bond. And if Dak had that one back, he's definitely looking to his tight end who had a huge day, by the way. And Ferguson is right behind Williams, really, if you look at the end zone, copy, so. So I'm positive Dak was kicking himself on the sideline right after that. A better pass to Williams is a first down. But more than anything, Ferguson has an explosive chunk play right behind it.

[Guest Analyst]

I hate failing, of course, but.

[George Dunham]

Like I said, I'm 50, 50 on it.

[Guest Analyst]

That was the Eagles. That was the Eagles best field position.

[Bob Sturm]

Of the day, you know, which is crazy. And of course you made it easy.

[George Dunham]

I still think field position matters, I think.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. Well, especially against the Eagles because they don't move the ball.

[Bob Sturm]

So they go, they go right down and get a touchdown. Because for some reason Duron Bland is playing outside leverage on AJ Brown with no safety to help him. And I don't know what happened there. Anyway, that's number one.

[George Dunham]

Okay. Number two. And again, he's been, he being Brian Schottenheimer, I think has been solid gold on these decisions. When to challenge, when did not. Time management thought it was. Time management at the end of this game was really good. He's just. I think he's really good.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

I do too.

[George Dunham]

Just about everything. But if I've got a player who says his hand hit the punt and I've been called for roughing the punter and my defense just held.

[Bob Sturm]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

I'm risking a timeout to challenge that.

[Bob Sturm]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

And based on what the NFL said and they got the pool reporter in there and ask about it, they said that I guess the eye in the sky didn't fix it because they didn't see the enhanced look until later on Fox. I'm saying they would have seen it had they challenged it because then they would have enhanced it and you would have Got the ball.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. I mean, first of all, I agree with you. I heard Schottenheimer's explanation that we just didn't think we could prove it. It's not that we don't believe our player. It's that we found no angle that supports his claim. And if there's no angle, then we are depending on fox, of all places, to find a replay in a timely fashion and to help the officials make a proper call, which, by the way, is really weird, of course, but it's something that almost never comes into play.

[Guest Analyst]

But we depend on these football networks, these television networks to have the angles not only available.

[George Dunham]

But, see, I didn't even know that. I figured they could do something with it in NFL Central.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't believe they can.

[Bob Sturm]

I don't. I mean, they certainly don't have their own cameras now. They might have their own tape machines on each camera, maybe. I. I've always assumed that they're. They're pretty much at the. At the mercy of the network's cameras that have them there.

[Guest Analyst]

I'd love to hear if I'm wrong.

[Bob Sturm]

But I guess what I'm saying is.

[Guest Analyst]

You know, not to go all conspiracy.

[Bob Sturm]

Theory here, but these. The networks have the same crew. And I know for a fact that there are guys on the networks that are huge football fans. And if I got an Eagles guy who has an angle, is he going.

[Guest Analyst]

To give it to the refs in time and again? I don't mean.

[Bob Sturm]

I don't mean to.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't want to go.

[George Dunham]

I don't want to go.

[Guest Analyst]

Tinfoil hat here, but I think we just peeled back the. The entire procedure of how replay works, and usually it doesn't come into play, but this one literally was. They showed that same angle in real time.

[Bob Sturm]

So it wasn't slow Mo. It was this angle that showed Pickens.

[Guest Analyst]

Close to the ball, but only when.

[Bob Sturm]

They sort of went in there frame by frame, could you actually see the ball slightly deflected. Right. And that was, what, 15 minutes later? And now the game has gone on.

[Guest Analyst]

Anyway, long story short, which is something I'm incapable of, George, I would just.

[Bob Sturm]

Say you have to challenge a play. That's a change of possession play. If a player is literally screaming at you, it hit my finger. And so we see this all the time in the NBA that players try to tell their coach to challenge something because he's positive something just happened. And then the player is full of it, and the coach actually gets annoyed that you just wasted my challenge by lying to me. But So I, so, But a hit.

[George Dunham]

Hands different than, Hey, I think my foot was in, you know.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right. That's right.

[George Dunham]

It just seemed different to me. But yeah, yeah, he got that one wrong. He's been 99 out of 100, it seems like this year.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And he says, I got that one wrong.

[Guest Analyst]

And then I imagine you're thinking third.

[Bob Sturm]

One is the go for it or.

[Guest Analyst]

Kick the field go late in the game.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, okay.

[Guest Analyst]

I thought that was nuts.

[Bob Sturm]

I, I, okay, again, Greg Olson will tell you that that's a go for it. It's 21.

[Guest Analyst]

21.

[Bob Sturm]

He will tell you. And do you know why?

[George Dunham]

Because he figures that. Well, let me get to the down and distance again. It was fourth and goal at the one or two. One or two? Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

I say one or two because for.

[Bob Sturm]

Some reason it was the one. But then when the two, when the Eagles took over, they got it at the two, and I'm like, how did they get a yard on a complete pass?

[George Dunham]

Yeah, that's, that's a really good point, Bob. It should have been at the one, I think. Yeah, I think. Well, his point is you're leaving the possibility. This is where field position does factor into it, and then you can get the ball back and in good field position, come down and score again.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[Guest Analyst]

So in the analytics game, each yard.

[Bob Sturm]

Line has a point probability attached to it when you start a possession. And so this is the whole kick return versus touchback. You know, everything in football has a quantitative value, and you can either believe it or you can roll your eyes. And the two guys who are hosting this podcast have definitely been in both camps over the years of believe these things or roll our eyes. So what Greg Olson said a couple of weeks ago in a game I was watching was, and I don't now.

[Guest Analyst]

To be fair to him, I don't.

[Bob Sturm]

Think it was quite as late in the fourth quarter. So maybe that matters and maybe the fact that the Cowboys were down 21 to nothing matters and all this stuff, I don't know, maybe you' playing the Eagles at home and you desperately need.

[Guest Analyst]

A signature win should matter. But whatever the case is, his claim.

[Bob Sturm]

Is you go for it on that fourth down from the one, because you have a 50% chance of converting, and then if you don't convert, they get the ball at 99 yards away. Now, if you kick goes from a.

[Guest Analyst]

50% chance of converting to like a.

[Bob Sturm]

98% chance of your kicker making a field goal from that close.

[Guest Analyst]

However, now you kick the ball back.

[Bob Sturm]

And I want to say the average starting field position is like the 32 or 33 this year.

[Guest Analyst]

So he's saying the difference between three points and the 33 yard line versus seven points or the one yard line.

[Bob Sturm]

Is actually a way closer trade than you might think.

[Guest Analyst]

And while I understand what he's saying.

[Bob Sturm]

I'm still kicking to take the lead. Partly because I don't think the Eagles.

[Guest Analyst]

It's not Patrick Mahomes, it's Jalen Hurts.

[Bob Sturm]

And because of that, I think a three point lead is very valuable with three minutes to play.

[George Dunham]

I do too. Does it change that you got the ball at the eight and this is on the fumbled pun. Which by the way, man, what special teams coverage that was. And for Gibson, I need to ask, we need to find this out. Are special teams coaches in the NFL now telling their guys to catch it and return it inside the 10? Used to be heels on the 10. If it's over your head, take your chances. Or heels on the five. That seemed like a crazy return from the one yard line.

[Bob Sturm]

It felt like they.

[Guest Analyst]

Yes, I feel like this sport is.

[Bob Sturm]

Is littered with crazy return decisions. So. So they're. Punters are really good, first of all, at killing the ball inside the 10. They're getting better and better at it, especially these rugby dudes, these Aussies and the guys who I know, a lover of special teams like Job here has to love this era of the ability for these knuckle punts and all this craziness. But I still think it's crazy to return a punt from the two and we see it every Sunday. So that was crazy to me. And of course it was an amazing special teams play by Elijah Clark, Marquis.

[Guest Analyst]

Bell, Trent Sieg and those guys.

[Bob Sturm]

We never talk about. What a, what a unbelievable moment for them. And you know, it was just, it was just, it was just craziness and, and so yes, the Eagles are very annoyed at Gibson for that decision and even more annoyed if you're going to do something like that and then give them the ball inside your 10 at the moment of truth.

[George Dunham]

But that's. We get back into. Well, it's not a good play call because it didn't work, but so we. Direct snap. That was a direct snap to Williams. That got it down to the one, right. Or as a running play to Williams.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

And then Dak rolls out, nobody's there. Then the lamb drop. I guess what I'm saying is here's another thing that's happened throughout the year. No one's really stopped either Lipke or Williams. From the one yard line. I'll take two chances at that and if they stop both of those, then I'm definitely kicking the field goal. But yeah, I don't know.

[Bob Sturm]

No, they didn't like that.

[George Dunham]

I didn't know.

[Guest Analyst]

You're right. They look the Cowboys did a nice job of, of taking care of like Tyler Booker did an unbelievable job on.

[Bob Sturm]

Jalen Carter all day.

[Guest Analyst]

Tyler Smith did a great job.

[Bob Sturm]

Cooper Beebe did a great job.

[Guest Analyst]

I was very pleased with the offensive line. They didn't run it down the Eagles.

[Bob Sturm]

Throat, but they did run it with decent success and they definitely protected well.

[Guest Analyst]

And more than anything, my takeaway is.

[Bob Sturm]

My offensive line can deal with the Eagles defensive line because now I've seen it for eight quarters and I never felt overwhelmed and that is so encouraging for my future because Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis, like you would wake up in the middle of the night during the off season and just see, you know, the next five years of dealing with those two dudes. And I think the Cowboys for as much as I don't like taking guards in the first round, maybe, maybe taking guards in the first round because you play in this division against that team twice a year and against Dexter Lawrence two other times, maybe it's not as crazy as, as it seems.

[George Dunham]

That's what Schottenheimer said and he didn't say it by name, but he said, hey, a lot of these teams, they have first round picks all across the front line and yeah, so you got to combat that. And I think he was talking about Philly there. If we're going to beat these guys, we've got to be good from guard to guard. Yes, obviously tackles very important too, but, but that was big. Okay, so.

[Guest Analyst]

Well, just to, just to wrap it.

[Bob Sturm]

Up though, I do think the Cowboys need to be really careful about passing from the one yard line when they have, they have a couple power options in that backfield. I'm not saying tush push, but I am saying there's a world where there's an easier way to score a touchdown. Because now, because now based on what we saw in this game, teams are game planning. Against the Cowboys in the deep red zone Inside like the 5 for these CD Lamb start in the left and come all the way across the end zone back to the right. We saw the interception double covered and we saw the CD Lamb third and goal right before that fourth and goal decision.

[Guest Analyst]

We saw that covered really, really well. Now people will call that an easy CD Lamb drop and I understand the.

[Bob Sturm]

Ball did get there and so CD.

[Guest Analyst]

Lamb needs to make his quarterback right. But if you go back and look at that play, he has his right.

[George Dunham]

Arm being ripped by.

[Guest Analyst]

Yes, yes. And the Eagles had an ambush there. They had Nolan Smith looking like he's rushing the passer, and he is absolutely.

[Bob Sturm]

Coming from the backside.

[Guest Analyst]

That's Nolan Smith. That's a defensive end. First of all, for people to say.

[Bob Sturm]

Dak should know that you are never.

[Guest Analyst]

Accounting for a defensive end trying to.

[Bob Sturm]

Buzz the tower on a guy from the far left.

[Guest Analyst]

But the Eagles absolutely were expecting CD.

[Bob Sturm]

Lamb to run a crosser across the back of the end zone, and they had a plan to trick Dak and Dax saw it. And so he threw kind of a bad ball, in my opinion, because, to.

[George Dunham]

Be fair, throw it inside of. Because of where the defensive end was.

[Guest Analyst]

Yes, because Lamb is wide open when.

[Bob Sturm]

He goes past the goalpost. And I mean by two or three yards on DeJean and he had to. He had to sort of back shoulder it, which is a bad idea when a corner is trailing. And so I don't know. I guess what I'm saying is you have to have a better idea than then what the Cowboys love to do at that spot in the end zone. And by the way, if you just want to throw one on one place to George Pickens all day from the one that works too, let's just do that.

[George Dunham]

And speaking of that, what a performance by George Pickens. CD Lamb, that was a tough play, but he had some that he could have made. Let's talk about receivers coming up next on the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition. Okay, the Eagles had a George Pickens problem on Sunday. He was just dominant in the game. It didn't matter if it was a short route, if it was something deep. What a season he is having, the likes of which we have not seen here in Dallas outside of Bob Hayes or Michael Irvin. And it's got this discussion going now, Bob, he was supposed to be a compliment to CD Lamb. Lambs had some injuries and he's gone through some things this year, but from week one until this past Sunday, we've seen CD not have his best year. In the meantime, George Pickens has not started any fight on the field. He hasn't cost them, and in penalties, outside of hugging the goal post a couple of weeks back, you can't do that. But, man, George Pickens has just been extraordinary this year.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes. Okay, so there's a number of ways to have this conversation, and I think the best way is to just simply say George Pickens is phenomenal. I'd like to say that many of.

[Guest Analyst]

Us were surprised how little a deal.

[Bob Sturm]

People were making about this trade when it happened in May. I could not believe. I've always been a George Pickens fan all the way back to his draft. Love the guy, think he's a rare, rare talent. And when people say that he's a moody wide receiver, that doesn't phase me at all, to be honest with you. I, I kind of build that into the recipe, George, that if a guy can get me 1500 yards, I am more than willing to allow three, well, time personal fouls a season, one for each 500 yards he gets. That's, that's kind of my okay, that's my policy. I don't know if I could be your GM, but, but the if. So if you're a 2000 yard receiver, you get four personal files. And if you're a 1000 yard receiver, you only get two. So it's a baked in recipe. Pickens is unbelievable. And I can't believe that you can add them to an offense that has CD Lamb. And that's where the conversation, I think, is getting a little out of control right now.

[Guest Analyst]

Because CD Lam rubs some people the wrong way.

[Bob Sturm]

And I've always been trying to figure it out. George. I don't know if people don't like his grill or his red hair or his body language or that he went.

[Guest Analyst]

To Oklahoma or that he drops passes from time to time, but I will.

[Bob Sturm]

Just tell you all of that. And a unbelievable playmaker who's tough as nails is a warrior. And I mean that. And the reason I mean that is.

[Guest Analyst]

We saw him play last year about eight weeks when he absolutely could have.

[Bob Sturm]

Had surgery and decided to stay out there and fight with his team.

[Guest Analyst]

And, and by the way, even then people did not compliment him enough because.

[Bob Sturm]

They were cynical that he just wanted.

[Guest Analyst]

His numbers, which I thought was so disrespectful because he already had his contract. And, and, and, and it's just, I, I, I feel like, I feel like this city loves its franchise wide receivers.

[Bob Sturm]

And they will go to war for Michael Irvin or Drew Pearson or even DEZ Bryant.

[Guest Analyst]

But for whatever reason, and I do think there might be some Texas, Oklahoma here. I don't, I can't.

[George Dunham]

No, I think you're onto something. I think it's all those things you mentioned. And, and sometimes maybe it's his reaction. It's the stupid stuff that we put in our brains about what's he doing laughing about that. Yeah, you Know, I just think it's mannerisms. It's.

[Guest Analyst]

Right, right.

[George Dunham]

It's all that.

[Guest Analyst]

No, you're right.

[George Dunham]

So.

[Bob Sturm]

So CD Lamb this year has been overshadowed by George Pickens. I would argue a lot of it has to do with his high ankle sprain in Chicago. And, and he didn't, he missed what, a month and, and then probably was back as quick as he could and maybe a little too early. And so he, to me, he hasn't been fully right for much of the season.

[Guest Analyst]

And when he has been fully right.

[Bob Sturm]

We'Ve seen these very disconcerting drops against the Eagles that kind of makes you think that it cost them the game in Philadelphia, which I think is a fair shout. And, you know, it almost cost them the game against the Eagles here.

[Guest Analyst]

And so, you know, people see that and then they see the money he makes and they see the body language at times. Even that third down drop in the.

[Bob Sturm]

End zone on Sunday.

[Guest Analyst]

It looks like he's mad at Dak. And you know why it looks like.

[Bob Sturm]

He'S mad at Dak? Because he is mad at Dak, George.

[Guest Analyst]

And again, I'd love to hear your analysis of that play, but when I saw it, I totally understand why CD Lamb is angry at Dak. Prescott. I, you know, because to me, I, I thought that's, that's. CD Lamb had an easy touchdown if Dak throws the ball either earlier or deeper to the corner on a play.

[Bob Sturm]

We've seen those two hook up on like a million times. But for whatever reason, and Dak had a lot going on, remember? I mean, the, he's getting hit, it's been a long game, he's under a ton of stress.

[Guest Analyst]

And so Dak is allowed to not.

[Bob Sturm]

Be perfect, I believe. And so, you know, you add it all together.

[Guest Analyst]

CD it's your job to make your quarterback right.

[Bob Sturm]

And no matter where he puts the ball, go get it. And CD didn't do a good job of that on Sunday. And I think he had a pretty rough day. And thankfully he caught that 40 yard pass to salvage it and now he thought he was wide open for the game winning touchdown. And he's a very emotional young man. But if I may land this plane here to this conversation, I love George Pickens. There's absolutely no chance he should play anywhere but Dallas in 2026. You sign him, you pay whatever it takes.

[Guest Analyst]

You redo the back of DAX.

[Bob Sturm]

Deal or you move money around to make it happen.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't want to hear about your.

[Bob Sturm]

Cap and above pieces of the piece of. And, and you have to keep CD Lamb, which by the way, I don't think you have any choice in the matter. But the point is they're, they're great because they're together and it's a force multiplier situation. And the best comparison, George, is how good Kenny Clark and OSA O Diggy Zuo look now that Quinn and Williams is here.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, you don't, you don't switch them out. You put them together. That's how great for football is played is you get a great player and you add to him. This was my Micah problem. If you want to get Micah to a higher spot, add Quinn and Williams.

[Bob Sturm]

To Micah and then people, oh, you don't understand the seller cap.

[Guest Analyst]

No, I do. I do understand the salary gap. I see San Francisco do it. I see the Philadelphia Eagles do it. I see the Kansas City Chiefs do it. You can maximize your cap simply by restructuring and allowing great players to play together, not one for the other. So now I'm hearing fans say, man.

[Bob Sturm]

Should we keep Pickens and trade CD Lamp?

[Guest Analyst]

No, you should put them together for the rest of Dax Prime.

[George Dunham]

Yes, I'm with you there. Totally with you there. And speaking of Dak, it got a little lost. It was just like a note thrown in there. He passed Tony Romo and became the Cowboys all time leading passer with something like 1 million yards. It's 13,000 some odd yards. It is amazing, isn't it that they've now played in about the same amount of games. Romo was 78 and 49. Dak is 81 and 51. Romo with a quarterback rating of 97 1. Dak is at 98. Romo's record with touchdowns and interceptions is 248 and 117. Dax, 236 touchdowns, 84 interceptions. Like do people know that different quarterbacks, different quarterbacks. I mean I'm not going to say, hey, they're exactly the same because they have different styles and different. But the results are almost the exact same. And the biggest 1, Romo was 2 and 4 in the postseason. Dak is 2 and 5. They're rating in the playoffs about even.93 for Romo, 91.8 for Dak. They've, they've had almost the same career as far as results.

[Bob Sturm]

Right. Okay, I, I think that's amazing. I guess what I was shocked there is and I'm shocked every time I look at it how Dax somehow has a reputation of throwing more picks and yet Romo has thrown way more picks than Dax.

[George Dunham]

About 40 more. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And in lesser games right now and.

[George Dunham]

Lesser attempts, pretty close to the same amount of games. 81 and 51 and one for Dak and 78 and 49. So three. Yeah, about almost same exact amount of games.

[Bob Sturm]

Okay, I, I guess, I guess I was looking for like interception percentage.

[George Dunham]

Percentage.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, I, I would be curious what that is. Let's see the Tony Romo.

[George Dunham]

I didn't go advanced stats on your interception.

[Guest Analyst]

No, no, you're fine. Tony Romo's interception percentage is 2.7, which.

[Bob Sturm]

By the way, is just fine. Nobody's saying it's bad. And this is. People get excited when we discuss these things and I don't want anyone to get excited. George Dax career. Okay. 2.7 for Romo, 2.0 for Dak, in fact. And that's, that's a big difference, by the way. That's one guy has attempted. Dak has attempted 4,500 passes and he's thrown 89 interceptions. And Romo has thrown 4,300 passes and has thrown 117. That's wild. Yeah, that is wild. How. And look, it's not a discussion of who's better and who's best. It's a discussion of how great Dak Prescott has been because we all thought Tony Romo was pretty great.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And I think now there's a very real chance that the rest of Dax career is going to leave Romo in the dust. And hopefully with that is going to be 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 more playoff wins. And if he stalls at 2, then that will be extremely disappointing, especially if you can keep Pickens and Lamb around him. And, and you know, I, I have high hopes for Dak Prescott because I personally think he's never played better football than we've seen here in his last couple seasons. 2024 was weird, but from, from the time he turned 30 in 2023 until now where he's 32, I just think he's been amongst the league's best. And you know, I just, I just think it's, it's a real credit to him because I think he could have been broken mentally by the noise and the stress and everything. Now, he's always been paid well, but.

[Guest Analyst]

I just, I, I think for a.

[Bob Sturm]

Guy like him to almost become a bit of a Jedi master or a 10,000 hour rule, like a. I feel like he has his master's degree in quarterbacking now and also his body might be as good as it's ever been, health wise. And so you cross your fingers and you. He's.

[Guest Analyst]

And by the way, as far as that is concerned, George, he also is.

[Bob Sturm]

More conservative on the punishment he takes. And that's kind of Brady and Manning's secret to a long career is the smarter I get, the more I'm getting the ball out and not taking hits. Unless.

[George Dunham]

Which made the touchdown flip even more cool. Yes. I mean, just knowing. You know what, I don't care.

[Bob Sturm]

I hope he gets that.

[George Dunham]

I'm getting this thing in there.

[Bob Sturm]

I hope he gets that picture and puts it right over his fireplace because that is an awesome picture of him flying into the end zone in what might have been a top three or top five win in his career. Yeah. Yeah, that was just.

[George Dunham]

Totally agree with that.

[Bob Sturm]

Just awesome.

[George Dunham]

All right. Now this little team called the Kansas City Chiefs comes to town for the traditional Thanksgiving Day game. Talk about that matchup. What the Chiefs are this year. Bob's been keeping an eye on the 1975 season. What happened on Thanksgiving Day in 1975 in the National Football League? It's a bit of a trick question when it comes to the Cowboys and we'll talk about that on the Muses, the podcast Cowboys edition. Coming up next, Cowboys and Chiefs Thanksgiving Day post Malone probably Tay Tay. Bob, you couldn't ask for more than this, could you?

[Bob Sturm]

I couldn't. I'm so excited.

[George Dunham]

I'm so thankful for games like this.

[Bob Sturm]

We're going to be so exhausted by all this football. That's. Oh man, that's the thing, man. To go Eagles, Chiefs in five days and then they're going to sprinkle in of course your Texas, Texas A and M on Friday and then all the good football in the NFL both Sunday and, and Thursday. And then we have a black Friday game. The Eagles and the Bears play on Friday afternoon.

[George Dunham]

How are we at North Texas and Temple on Friday, Bob? I won't leading scoring team in the country, man.

[Bob Sturm]

I just. Our eyes are going to hurt. I hope, I hope your eyes trained hard in the off season so you can watch all this football.

[George Dunham]

I know it's. It is hard and fast. And as we talked about last week, it's four games in 17 days for the Cowboys. When you go Monday, Sunday, Thursday, Thursday, that's a lot of football in just a little bit of time. And here come the Chiefs just fighting like heck to make the playoffs right now. They're out of the picture. We were talking about this this week on on the ticket in Dallas. I get the feeling that the Chiefs like the Eagles, they have a worse record, but similar problems and they're not right. And a very high standard for a team that has made seven straight AFC title games. Just let that sink in for a second. And how good they have been during the Patrick Mahomes era. But yeah, they're not right. The, their record is not much better than the Cowboys and yet they are capable of coming in here and giving the Cowboys fits and putting 30 some odd points up on the board and make the Cowboys chase them. What do you, what's your overall view of the Chiefs? How good is this team that that comes in here?

[Guest Analyst]

Well, it's weird because our perception of the Chiefs is that they are a.

[Bob Sturm]

Lot like the Eagles. They're winning, ugly and everything like that.

[Guest Analyst]

But then when you pull up the numbers, the Chiefs offense actually after September has been pretty doggone impressive.

[Bob Sturm]

Like they had 500 yards against the Colts. They had 400 yards a couple of.

[Guest Analyst]

Weeks ago against the Commanders on Monday night.

[Bob Sturm]

They had 400 yards against Las Vegas. Don't know what that should tell us.

[Guest Analyst]

They had 475 at Jacksonville on that Monday night.

[Bob Sturm]

And so, so they've had some, they've.

[Guest Analyst]

Had some big nights. They also yards per play. They're, they're, they're not super, super explosive.

[Bob Sturm]

But what they do is they build drives and they build drives because Patrick Mahomes is so good at what he does. And, and really what he does is he kind of seems to figure out mid game what does this game call for? And then I'll do that. And, and I really obviously respect what that means for them because you know, their, their supporting cast is not ideal. Their running back situation has been a lot of Kareem Hunt, a lot of Pacheco. Pacheco has been down for like a month, but we're hearing he'll be ready to roll. But as far as weapons go, Kelsey's.

[Guest Analyst]

Not the same guy, but he's still decent.

[Bob Sturm]

But, but the Hollywood Brown thing has not been great.

[Guest Analyst]

The Xavier Worthy game. I just, I, I don't know that Xavier Worthy has been anywhere close to what they hoped. Juju Smith Schuster has pretty much faded.

[Bob Sturm]

Completely out of the mix.

[Guest Analyst]

And so the return of Rasheed Rice.

[Bob Sturm]

Has been such a big, big deal for them. After his self imposed, self inflicted suspension, he's come back and he had a huge game against the Colts. 8 for 141. And you know, I think I sort of mocked the idea that when Rasheed Rice was their battle cry for those first six weeks, it was like these.

[Guest Analyst]

Guys think they're getting Jerry Rice Back.

[Bob Sturm]

From a suspension because he's just Rasheed Rice. But I have to admit, he's. He's had three or four games since his return that have been spectacular. And the Chiefs do look better with him. So he's not Jerry Rice, but the SMU pony is definitely instantly their best playmaker, and he's a tough guy to corral.

[Guest Analyst]

So offensively they're pretty good. And I want to say, was it last year or the year before where.

[Bob Sturm]

We pretty much flipped the narrative that the Chiefs are stinky on offense and their defense with Spagnolo is carrying them? I think we've kind of gone back to old Chiefs where if you look at the Chiefs, you know, statistics across the line, fifth in yards, 14th and.

[Guest Analyst]

Rushing, second in passing, top 10 on third downs, it looks like. And their offense is points wise, they're also top 10, so it's not always pretty. I do think Mahomes needs a few.

[Bob Sturm]

More playmakers to be peak. Mahomes, like if he had Pickens and Lamb, what would that look like? But, but, but they know what he needs.

[Guest Analyst]

And what he usually does is just.

[Bob Sturm]

Enough to keep the Chiefs winning. And of course, now you're playing the Chiefs in a horrible time because for once the Chiefs are looking at this game as we. We can't afford any more trips or we might not even make the playoffs. And so that's.

[George Dunham]

That would be something.

[Bob Sturm]

You're playing a desperate Chiefs team and that's. That's not a great spot.

[George Dunham]

Now, I don't have a great feeling about it just because that very point right there. And I think if you back Mahomes and the Chiefs into a corner. Yeah, look out. I do. What do you enjoy the possibility, the possibility of a incredible shootout on Thanksgiving afternoon? I think this could be like the packers game.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, it could be. And I wonder what you make of one and four on the road for our Chiefs.

[George Dunham]

That's interesting. Now, one.

[Bob Sturm]

One was, I want to say Brazil. The first, that Friday night game against the Chargers. Was that Brazil? I think.

[George Dunham]

Yes.

[Bob Sturm]

So. So. So otherwise they played in Denver.

[George Dunham]

They didn't look very good.

[Bob Sturm]

No.

[George Dunham]

Buffalo, I would say their offense looked worse than the Cowboys did that day.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, they lost at Jacksonville, at Buffalo.

[Bob Sturm]

At Denver in their last three road games. Yeah, well, they beat the Giants.

[George Dunham]

Something there.

[Bob Sturm]

They beat the Giants on a Sunday night. But that was September 21st, I think the same day the Cowboys lost CD Lamb at Soldier Field was that week three. Yeah.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. And from what I remember about that Giants game, that was. That was Closer than that final score may indicate. In other words, they're still the Chiefs, but they're not world beaters. And I think that's one thing we run into in this league of past reputation. Yep. You know, and you think, oh wow, they're not going to be just like all this the last few weeks. Well, you got the Eagles, the Chiefs and the Lions and I agree that's tougher than some other stretches of this schedule when you're playing the Commanders and the Giants. But at the same time, it's this league and I know you preach this a lot and you're exactly right. This is not college football. This is not the number one ranked team or the fifth ranked team coming to town and you're just in the middle of your division and you have no chance to win a game like this. We saw the Lions have to fight like heck to beat the, to beat the Giants. Cowboys beat the Eagles. And you just outlined right there, this is a Chiefs team that has been very beatable this year.

[Bob Sturm]

Now here's the question I would have. And we really haven't even mentioned the Cowboys defense. I think a development that is really, really interesting and I want to see more and we're going to get more.

[Guest Analyst]

Is why did the Eagles not even.

[Bob Sturm]

Try to run inside on the Cowboys?

[George Dunham]

Good question.

[Bob Sturm]

So we only have two games of Quinn and Williams in our life. They've been wonderful. Although I think we should understand one of the reasons we're nervous about Thanksgiving Day is that George Pickens and Quinn and Williams look hurt. George did not have a whole lot left in his giddy up at the end of that game. And Quinn and caught that massive shoulder from Saquon on a chip mid game and he kept playing. But that's the type of thing you wake up and your ribs maybe Monday. And yeah, he looks. Well, I mean look what we ask of these guys to play four days after they just played a game is, is not good.

[George Dunham]

It's a product.

[Bob Sturm]

It's ridiculous.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, but we like my Thursday night plan at some point. We don't have time for it now. But I, yeah, I think it during the season. It's ridiculous. And as much as I love the traditional Thanksgiving Day game, I would like a day for the teams who play on Thanksgiving. The week before is their bye week.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I, I'm with you. And, and I'm, you know, I think there's a way to do it. Like you just said, everybody who plays on Thursday gets to come off a buy. And, and, and that's the best way to preserve the product. But as it stands, the, the, the Cowboys and really every team that plays on Thanksgiving, which is six, and then there's two more on Black Friday, I just.

[Guest Analyst]

These games are even tougher to sort.

[Bob Sturm]

Of predict, just be based on. You don't even really know who's available because really nobody practices between Sunday and Thursday. They'll go out there in shorts, but.

[Guest Analyst]

There'S no way of knowing.

[Bob Sturm]

Could somebody give it a go for, you know, any of these teams? So yeah, that applies to the Detroit Green Bay game and what the Bengals, Ravens at night. And you know, it's just, it's, it's.

[Guest Analyst]

Very, very difficult to get a feel for these matchups.

[Bob Sturm]

But anyway, if we may circle all the way back. What I think is amazing, George, is that in two games with Quinn and Williams, we've seen opponents pretty much decide during the week when they built their game plan that we're not even going to challenge the Cowboys with inside runs anymore. And I don't know if that's just a coincidence because the Raiders stink, but.

[Guest Analyst]

Ashton Genty was the best college football.

[Bob Sturm]

Running back in 2024 and Saquon Barkley was the best NFL running back in 2024. And you just played them in back to back weeks.

[Guest Analyst]

And we know the Cowboys have spent like three straight years being the silliest.

[Bob Sturm]

Most horrible inside run defense in all of organized football.

[Guest Analyst]

And the fact that neither team even tried, I think is what happens when.

[Bob Sturm]

Teams look at film of Quinn and Williams and Kenny Clark and they just say, yeah, let's try something else.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

And if, if the Cowboys now are.

[Bob Sturm]

A team that is like the Buccaneers were a couple years ago and the Ravens have been where you just don't even bother because you're so intimidated by what would happen to your run game, then, then we might be underestimating how good this defense can ultimately be, especially when they go get two first round picks and maybe, maybe add Caleb Downs and, and one of those Buckeye linebackers to this defense, that, that would be insane too. But I guess, I guess I'm super excited to see what Andy Reid thinks because the Cowboys have some butt kickers up front now and it's not just Quinn.

[Guest Analyst]

And I'm so excited about how good.

[Bob Sturm]

OSA now looks, that he has some chances and that he has some help. And Kenny Clark, like again, the fancy.

[Guest Analyst]

Term force multiplier is a thing.

[Bob Sturm]

And when you talk about Quinn and.

[Guest Analyst]

Williams, it kind of looks like his.

[Bob Sturm]

Presence is allowing the other guys to Eat.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

And he had eight pass pressures himself. How insane is that?

[George Dunham]

Oh, I know. Yeah. You can see the impact of Quinn and Williams here in the last couple of weeks. But I think you're right. When your last two opponents have tried it 30 times for 90 yards and a lot of that was not inside, I don't get it. I think that especially if Pacheco is back this week, Kareem Hunt has an ability to run inside. Delay draws, things like that where you're so worried about, you know, what Kansas City likes to do. Yeah. I think you could see them try to. To hit it up. Hit it up in there.

[Bob Sturm]

Hit it up in there. Exactly.

[Guest Analyst]

And I will say it doesn't mean.

[Bob Sturm]

There was nothing between the tackles because like, the Jalen hurts quarterback draw was. But I'm talking about, like, here's Saquon and here's our favorite, you know, power play or. Or inside zone or something like that. And I think they tried three inside runs with Saquon, and I think it was for three yards total. And, you know, and Genti very much the same thing. So now they're trying outside runs, which of course plays right into a guy like having Demarvey and overshone back to cover the flanks. So maybe the best way to see if you fixed linebacker is to not need them as much because the opponents are trying something else. Which, which, which. What a treat that actually is.

[George Dunham]

Well, the Cowboys have played on Thanksgiving 57 times. They're 34, 22 and 1. Growing up, I always thought the Cowboys went on Thanksgiving. I can only remember, really, one painful game from my youth. I believe it's 1979. Earl Campbell and the Houston Oilers on Thanksgiving just ran all over the doomsday defense. And yeah, it was crushing. But you've been following the 1975 team. It's the 50th anniversary of that very special team. First wild card team to go to a Super bowl, the Hail Mary in Minnesota and the divisional round. But you're telling me in 1975 the cowboys did not play on Thanksgiving? What the heck, Bob? No, no.

[Bob Sturm]

In fact, the. The twent third, which was this past Sunday. They had a home game against the Eagles, ironically enough.

[Guest Analyst]

Whoa.

[George Dunham]

Okay.

[Bob Sturm]

Just like this year's team. And they were able to take care of those Eagles 27 17. So now their record moves to 7 and 3. And so I was like, man, I wonder who they play on Thanksgiving. I look at the schedule and they don't play again till Sunday the 30th, when the new York Football Giants come calling and they will go for the season sweep against the Giants. And they only have four games left. This is a 7 and 3 team playing a 14 game schedule. So they finish with the Giants at St. Louis, the Washington Redskins at home, and then they finish the regular season at the New York Jets. And so I have erased all the final scores, so I don't know what happens. I'm building.

[George Dunham]

Drop the wait and see.

[Bob Sturm]

But it was Bob. It was Bob Lilly day at Texas Stadium.

[George Dunham]

Okay. Retired the year before.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

And Preston Pearson had his real breakout.

[Bob Sturm]

Game with the Cowboys. And Harvey Martin had three traps, which if you're following the 75 Cowboys, you know that back then they called sacks trap.

[George Dunham]

Oh yeah, we get a trap here, Brad. Because Harvey Bart was so good on the outside. That's what you'd hear on the Tom Landry Show. Coach Landry called them traps.

[Guest Analyst]

I gotta tell you, I kind of like sacks better than traps.

[Bob Sturm]

I'm happy, okay?

[Guest Analyst]

Happy we switched it. I don't know who was in charge.

[Bob Sturm]

Of switching the vernacular, but.

[George Dunham]

Well, back then we didn't even keep.

[Bob Sturm]

Track of them right till 70.

[George Dunham]

Was it 78?

[Guest Analyst]

I think 78 was.

[Bob Sturm]

Is the first official recording of NFL stats as sacks being a real thing.

[George Dunham]

So art model jumped in and said, yeah, enough of Dallas playing on Thanksgiving, because I guess way back in the day the Browns did play on Thanksgiving and then they gave it up. And then was that the whole reason why the. The Cowboys didn't play? I bet that was a really interesting discussion between art model and texture. AM.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. And what's interesting about it is we.

[Bob Sturm]

Had two Thanksgiving Day games in 1975. The Lions did play a home game and they got spanked so bad in the 70s by the. The Los Angeles Rams 20 to nothing. And then I want to say the second game was what America wanted instead of the Cowboys at home. And this was the Buffalo bills going to St. Louis to take on Jim Hart and the St. Louis Cardinals. And the Bills smoked them 32 to 14 in St. Louis on Thanksgiving. And O.J. simpson did not lead the Bills in rushing.

[George Dunham]

What?

[Guest Analyst]

This is O.J.

[George Dunham]

Had.

[Bob Sturm]

Boy, listen to this. O.J.

[Guest Analyst]

Had 23 carries for 85 yards. Jim Braxton had 34 carries for 160. That means, that means the Buffalo Bills ran the ball 57 times in this game, George.

[Bob Sturm]

And they won going away.

[George Dunham]

Joe Ferguson hurt or something. They just said, okay, we're just gonna run the single wing here.

[Guest Analyst]

Ferguson 11, 11 for 22, no touchdowns and two picks.

[Bob Sturm]

So, okay, so whoever was coaching the Bills that day, which appears to be the great Lou Saban.

[George Dunham]

Ah, yes, Lou Saban.

[Bob Sturm]

He said after that second pick. Look, we're running the ball the rest of the day. We're not doing any more of this nonsense. And he took down Don Coriel, knocking the St. Louis back to 8 and 3. The Bills go to 7 and 4 with this Thanksgiving 1975 game.

[George Dunham]

Cardinals should have hung on to Don Coryell. They. Yeah, they should have for a while. I don't know what they were thinking. No doubt bad the Cardinals decision, I'm sure.

[Guest Analyst]

All right, all our football friends listeners.

[Bob Sturm]

Are hyped to know what happened on Thanksgiving of 1975.

[George Dunham]

Well, I'm hyped because it's Thanksgiving week. Thankful for you, Bob, and our little discussion here of of the Cowboys. Hope you have a great one with your family and likewise. Okay, next week, if we're back here and this team has knocked off the Eagles and Chiefs back to back, we're going to have a lot of things either way. We're going to have a lot of things to talk about. But we've really got something to say if the Cowboys can pull this off.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[Guest Analyst]

And when you're traveling around, take your football friends with you. We're going to make sure that we don't miss an episode, even if we have to jam it in there during the holidays. No problem.

[George Dunham]

We got no problem whatsoever. Thanks to Ty Webker, who made this possible, producing the Musers, the podcast Cowboys Edition. Because Bob and I are football friends. Yeah. And we will be back again next week.

[Bob Sturm]

Way to go, dude. This is fun.

[George Dunham]

Way to go. It is fun. I enjoy it every week. It's the Musers, the podcast Cowboys Edition Football friends George Dunham and Bob Sturm. Happy Thanksgiving week to you. And the Cowboys cooked a bird on Sunday, Bob.

[Bob Sturm]

Oh, you got that right.

[George Dunham]

I think on this very podcast last week we talked about this being a real possibility. And sure enough, the Cowboys knock off the Philadelphia Eagles to go to 5, 5 and 1. And when it was 20, they went at 24, 21. When it was 21, nothing. I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I have to spend half my week just saying, okay, look, I thought it was going to happen, but it didn't. And just the motions we go through. But then the comeback happened and we can talk. I don't think Philadelphia is quite right. I haven't thought it all year. I know they're 8 and 3 now and it sounded like a silly thing to say when they were 8 and 2. And I still don't think we have seen a full game of the Cowboys. Maybe we won't this entire season. Who knows? We'll see. But man, when they put it together, when they can get some stops and they play offense like the way they like to play offense, they're pretty good team. Bob.

[Bob Sturm]

Well, yeah, and I think this is the week we should really focus on our, our true insight and savviest football friends and George, because we were all over this one and you know, I.

[Guest Analyst]

Mean this is, this is what's fun.

[Bob Sturm]

About the playoffs, right? Where you just dig down on matchups and kind of talk about if these were the only two teams in the universe, you know, our team would look like this every week and their team would look like that every week. And it's a good conversation because now these two teams have played two tremendously fun close games where I think the cumulative score this year is 4544 Eagles and that's over 120 minutes. Obviously Quinn and Williams only played in one of them and you know, CD Lamb has had big drops in both of them. And you know, there's, there's a lot.

[Guest Analyst]

Of, there's a lot of talking points.

[Bob Sturm]

But man, I'm sorry, I just don't think the Eagles are very good this year. And I think they know it. And yes, there is a win loss record that's very important because not only is that the whole point of everything, but it also determines home field, it determines bye weeks. And if the Eagles can duct tape a one seed out of this offense that they have, then I think you tip your cap to them and you say that's incredible. That's incredible. Football management by a team that realizes they've got 99 problems, but they still figure out a way to win most weeks.

[Guest Analyst]

And the nfc, as we have talked about for like five years on this.

[Bob Sturm]

Show, the NFC feels incredibly gettable. Why the AFC seems to require a higher level of quality if you want to rise to the, to the big game in February, as the commercials make us say sometimes.

[Guest Analyst]

And so, you know, I mean it's just, it's, it's a getable conference.

[Bob Sturm]

So to me that might explain, you.

[Guest Analyst]

Know, what the Eagles have been able to pull off. And that's not their fault. It's not like if there's a boxer.

[Bob Sturm]

Who'S a champion for five years, I mean we can say he picked a great era to be in his prime. But, but that, you know, if you're number one, you beat everybody that they threw at you. And so honestly, that's what the Eagles do.

[Guest Analyst]

But they're so gettable themselves.

[Bob Sturm]

And you know, it would be like an NBA team being like, I don't know, 20 and five, but they're, they're 20th, they're 28th and three point shooting. And you would say, man, that's a great record, but you will not survive the playoffs unless you get these important stats worked out.

[Guest Analyst]

And that's where the Eagles are right now.

[Bob Sturm]

The good news for them, like I.

[Guest Analyst]

Said, they still have every reason to.

[Bob Sturm]

Believe they can get the one seed. They're one game behind the Rams. They beat the Rams head to head and like the luckiest win of the season with that blocked field goal return. And you know, they're.

[Guest Analyst]

If they get a bye week and they get to play all their games in Philadelphia, there's going to be no.

[Bob Sturm]

Reason to think they can't win two home games and go right back to the Super Bowl. So that is a flawed Eagles team. The Cowboys played a flawed game and still beat them. In fact, the Cowboys kind of set.

[Guest Analyst]

Their table all day. And I guess the takeaway for me.

[Bob Sturm]

George, is twofold from a Cowboys perspective, since this is a Cowboys and not a Birds podcast, as they might say. Although I know you can do either very well. But my two takeaways were very much. Brian Schottenheimer needed this as like a, oh, I don't know, proof of concept is something I say quite a bit these days. But just like a signature win, man, you can sink your teeth into. This is what it looks like when it goes correctly, right?

[George Dunham]

Absolutely. And they almost got that against Green Bay.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

But everyone holds that against them because they tied as if they were a part of an illegal game or something.

[Bob Sturm]

Right.

[George Dunham]

To me, that was still a pretty good result given the great results circumstances. Ties are weird and well, freak out about them. But.

[Guest Analyst]

And by, by the way, George, if we were to circle back to Green Bay for a moment, take a look at Green Bay's points against every single week but that one, every single week, Green Bay has three losses. Three. And all three of them, the opponent.

[Bob Sturm]

Did not score 17 points.

[Guest Analyst]

And so for the Cowboys to put.

[Bob Sturm]

Up a 40 burger against Green Bay, I mean, I think that is actually an enormous show of power because nobody else on Green Bay's entire schedule has.

[Guest Analyst]

Scored even 26 points. Not one. They've played 11 games and they have not given up more than 25 other than the Dallas game. So. So that's point number one, is that Schottenheimer needed it. Point number two, and I think this.

[Bob Sturm]

Might even be more important. I love that this roster feels like a pack of dogs right now that are going to fight for 60 minutes at a very high level. And I think we saw a lot of zombies when McCarthy's era was winding down, including.

[D]

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[Bob Sturm]

The game that killed his era, that Green Bay playoff game, and I love that 21 nothing did not feel too big to them. And as an observer now, I want to be clear. I. I thought the interception in the end zone probably was the end of the day. So I wasn't there the whole time. But the second they had Turpin for 48 and the stadium started making noise again, still at 21 nothing, I thought.

[Guest Analyst]

There'S plenty of time and we know the Eagles aren't going to be scoring much more.

[Bob Sturm]

They're going to try to sit on the ball. And I really, really like the Cowboys chances of getting back into this game if they can. If they can snag a touchdown before halftime.

[George Dunham]

Absolutely. And then when they finally made it a seven point game in the third quarter, then you could really feel it.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

In the stadium that old Mo had. Had turned.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. I'm trying to think of the point where maybe it was that Longs Long Pickens catch that set him up. That's when the stadium, it seemed, started to really lose its mind and. And they ended up tying the game on that run. Yeah. And at that point I. Yeah. How about the Dak run?

[Bob Sturm]

Whoo.

[George Dunham]

Wow.

[Bob Sturm]

Dak was sensational. He wasn't perfect. No, he was sensational.

[George Dunham]

Perfect. And you know, we've said before it's tough being a quarterback in this town and that we don't appreciate moments like this. And I'm telling you, with the way Phillies playing defense right now.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

Scoring 24 on them, leaving it at the three or wherever it was where they didn't make it in.

[Bob Sturm]

Right.

[George Dunham]

The six or whatever. It was not making it in there. And with two turnovers, man.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

That is. That's some offense there. And that's really impressive. And had they lost. Yeah, you was still would have had. And there's still plenty of questions about this team. But I still think what Dak did on Sunday was terrific. The throw in the end zone was not good. There was another one that Bond dropped. But you know, what do you know? He didn't catch it. So that's just kind of the way those things go.

[Bob Sturm]

Do you know how many times the Eagles have given up 400 yards in a game this season?

[George Dunham]

I'd say zero.

[Bob Sturm]

Well, zero until Sunday. Now they gave up 473 to the Cowboys.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, I knew the Cowboys had done it, but I shoot and okay throw.

[Bob Sturm]

And seven yards of play and we're.

[George Dunham]

Going to talk about CD Lamb extensively here in a second but he hangs on to a couple of catches and it's over 500 yards of offense, dude. I mean it was there for the taking.

[Guest Analyst]

The Cowboys had nine yards a pass. I just want so. So in this league, I want to say league average per completion is like.

[Bob Sturm]

Six and a half. Okay. And just to let people know, the Eagles had played what, 10 games going in at 8 and 2.

[Guest Analyst]

Here were their yards per pass per game.

[Bob Sturm]

555-6565-566968-66140 against Green Bay up there on Monday night. 62 against the Lions. The high they had given up all season was 6.9 yards per pass. What did Dak have on Sunday with an interception? Another near interception?

[Guest Analyst]

Several drops.

[Bob Sturm]

Inefficient.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. 9.4. The high was 6.9. Dak had 9.4. Do people. So, so I guess what I'm saying is your point is spot on.

[Bob Sturm]

But.

[Guest Analyst]

But 24 points is a massive understatement. That was absurdly inefficient.

[Bob Sturm]

That was a.

[Guest Analyst]

Honestly, that was a 31 or 34.

[Bob Sturm]

Point performance from the Cowboys and they missed a field goal, turned the ball over in the end zone, were stopped at the 1. I mean 24 is flattering to the Eagles. The Cowboys tore them up. And here's another way to look at it. So. And I wrote about this this morning on my sturm stack and that is the explosive plays.

[Guest Analyst]

So usually if you have a big.

[Bob Sturm]

Time offense, you're getting it because of chunk plays. Everybody.

[Guest Analyst]

20, 20 plus yards.

[Bob Sturm]

Right?

[Guest Analyst]

The Cowboys this year are not getting.

[Bob Sturm]

Enough chunk plays, which is weird because they have Pickens and Lambs so it should be coming easier. But, but. And they're on. They're going to beat last year's pace. But last year's pace was A lot of Cooper rush, and so that's not doing as much.

[Guest Analyst]

But if you're second in the NFL in points and third in the NFL.

[Bob Sturm]

In yards, and I'm sure they went up in yards, so that is old, old information without last week's game. But they're second and third in points and yards. That's incredible. But they're 18th in explosive plays and we are basically underperforming chunk plays. And what the Cowboys did on Sunday is they got seven when their previous season high was five and they'd only done that one other time against the Jets.

[Guest Analyst]

The Cowboys are not getting big plays.

[Bob Sturm]

And on Sunday they got them against.

[Guest Analyst]

A team that never gives up big plays.

[Bob Sturm]

Seven.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, so. So it was a season high for the Cowboys, season low for the Eagles, and honestly the success rate for the.

[Bob Sturm]

Cowboys run game was very middle. And so honestly they hit a couple runs, Malik Davis even, and they pass protected really well. Dak got the ball out and gave.

[Guest Analyst]

His guys a chance to make some plays.

[Bob Sturm]

And both of them, George.

[Guest Analyst]

Well, all three of them, George Pickens, Cavante Turpin and CD Lamb, all had 40 yard plays.

[Bob Sturm]

I mean, bro, that's awesome. In fact, all three of them. Well, no, not, not to.

[Guest Analyst]

Well, yeah, all three of them were.

[Bob Sturm]

Cooper, De Jean and. And. And so I don't know if Dak was looking carefully to find 33 out there, but it was a city and they play a lot of zone, of course. But. But not on those. Not on that deep pass to Lamb. That's cover one. And not on that deep pass to Pickens. That's cover one. So for whatever reason, the Eagles put dejean on Lamb and Pickens in those moments. And Dak. Well, Dak threw an unbelievable ball to CD he kind of threw a. I bet you Pickens can just go get this one ball to Pickens and both of them turned out great.

[George Dunham]

Yeah, I've heard this this week too. In reaction to the Eagles game, as you mentioned, it's a affirmation to what Brian Schottenheimer is trying to do, especially on the offensive side of the ball, that he got off to a rough start. Did he get off to a rough start or did they just not carry out the plan of the day? I. I can think of two instances. Let's talk about three points. Number one going forward on fourth and three at midfield. First possession, I didn't have a huge problem with it outside of this. Philadelphia is really good at red zone defense. They're really good at fourth down defense. Then the Lions just go over four the week before against them on, on fourth down. And the one thing that I thought going into this game the Cowboys couldn't afford were turnovers. And it, it brought that into the equation of ah, shoot. All of a sudden now it's at your 49 yard line.

[Bob Sturm]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

And it's seven nothing. I can, I can live with that one. But that's one. Okay.

[Bob Sturm]

Were you punting there? Let's do it play by play.

[George Dunham]

Okay. Would you like I said, I'm 50. 50. I could see why you're kind of like, yeah, maybe you're kind of like Nico. Yeah, maybe. But my first thought was, oh, there's going to draw them, try to draw them offside. They're going to punt it. I guess I didn't have a problem with it, but I'll with this as in parentheses. Are we too in love with 4th down? Go for it. Now in, in games like this where everything means everything.

[Guest Analyst]

Well, yes, but it's for a good reason.

[Bob Sturm]

The good reason is you're, you're.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't want to go Greg Olson.

[Bob Sturm]

Here because I think Greg Olson is extreme in this matter and I don't believe in analytics extremism. I like to be. I want to be an analytics moderate. Ge if you'll join me. I think moderate means I know the material, I understand the math, but I still have to use my brain at times.

[Guest Analyst]

But I am playing Nick Sirianni and.

[Bob Sturm]

Nick Sirianni or Dan Campbell or a few of these guys who go for it every time they're outside their own 40 yard line.

[Guest Analyst]

Then I can either choose to go completely against them or and basically let.

[Bob Sturm]

Them have a fourth strike every @ bat or I can try to match.

[Guest Analyst]

Aggressiveness and, and so when I, When I wrote the preview for this game.

[Bob Sturm]

I said, listen, I was at the Monday night game in Green Bay against the Eagles and I saw the packers decide to basically try to out conservative the Eagles. And, and the Eagles are super conservative every week. The packers are becoming super conservative every week and it drives me n. And.

[Guest Analyst]

I just don't think you can out.

[Bob Sturm]

Conservative the Eagles because they're really good at it. It's their entire ethos. They. They want to win 14 to 10, it seems like every week. And it's weird. I don't think you can win a championship that way. But that's, I guess what they've decided is their best way to win.

[Guest Analyst]

But anyway, you're. It's fourth and three. It's the first possession. You're at midfield and not only do.

[Bob Sturm]

You get cover one, but I think.

[Guest Analyst]

I think Dak just threw a bad.

[Bob Sturm]

Pass to Javante Williams. I also think, and I bet you saw this on film too, he passed up Jake Ferguson, who's wide open for like a 30 yard gain. Jake Ferguson's man fell down Zach Bond. And if Dak had that one back, he's definitely looking to his tight end who had a huge day by the way. And Ferguson is right behind Williams. Really, if you look at the end zone copy.

[George Dunham]

So.

[Bob Sturm]

So I'm positive Dak was kicking himself on the sideline right after that. A better pass to Williams is a first down. But more than anything, Ferguson has an explosive chunk play right behind it.

[Guest Analyst]

I. I hate failing, of course, but.

[Bob Sturm]

That because that was like I said.

[George Dunham]

I'm 5050 on it.

[Guest Analyst]

That was the Eagles.

[Bob Sturm]

That was the Eagles best field position of the day. You know, which, which is crazy and of course you made it easier.

[George Dunham]

I still think field position matters. I think.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. Well, especially it's the Eagles because they.

[Bob Sturm]

Don'T move the ball and so they go. They go right down and get a touchdown because for some reason Duron Bland is playing outside leverage on AJ Brown with no safety to help him. And I don't know what happened there. Anyway, that's number one.

[George Dunham]

Okay. Number two. And again he's been he being Brian Schottenheimer I think has been solid gold on these decisions when to challenge when did not time management thought it was time management at the end of this game was really good. He's just. I think he's really good.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah. I do too.

[George Dunham]

Just about everything. But if I've got a player who says his hand hit the punt and I've been called for roughing the punter and my defense just held.

[Bob Sturm]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

I'm risking a timeout to challenge that.

[Guest Analyst]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

And based on what the NFL said and they got the pool reporter in there and ask about it. They said that tis the season for.

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[Bob Sturm]

Did I burn down the joy?

[George Dunham]

I don't think so.

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[Bob Sturm]

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[Bob Sturm]

Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org.

[George Dunham]

In New York, call the 24.7HOPE line at 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY or 67369. I guess the eye in the sky didn't fix it because they didn't see the enhanced look until later on Fox. I'm saying they would have seen it had they challenged it, because then they would have enhanced it and you would have got the ball.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, I mean, first of all, I agree with you. I heard Schottenheimer's explanation that we just didn't think we could prove it. It's not that we don't believe our player, it's that we found no angle that supports his claim. And if there's no angle, then we are depending on Fox, of all places, to find a replay in a timely fashion and to help the officials make a proper call. Which, by the way, is really weird, of course, but it's it's something that almost never comes into play.

[Guest Analyst]

But we depend on these football networks, these television networks to have the angles not only available.

[George Dunham]

But see, I didn't even know that. I figured they could do something with it in NFL Central.

[Bob Sturm]

I don't believe they can. I don't. I mean, they certainly don't have their own cameras now. They might have their own tape machines on each camera. Maybe. I. I've always assumed that they're pretty much at the mercy of the network's cameras that have them there.

[Guest Analyst]

I'd love to hear if I'm wrong.

[Bob Sturm]

But I guess what I'm saying is not to go all conspiracy theory here, but the networks have the same crew, and I know for a fact that there are guys on the networks that are huge football fans.

[Guest Analyst]

And if I got an Eagles guy.

[Bob Sturm]

Who has an angle, is he going.

[Guest Analyst]

To give it to the refs in time again? I don't mean. I don't mean to. I don't want to go.

[George Dunham]

I don't want to go.

[Guest Analyst]

Tinfoil hat here, but I think we just peeled back the. The entire procedure of how replay works, and usually it doesn't come into play, but this one literally was. They showed that same angle in real.

[Bob Sturm]

Time, so it wasn't slow mo. It was this angle that showed Pickens.

[Guest Analyst]

Close to the ball, but only when.

[Bob Sturm]

They sort of went in there frame by frame, could you actually see the ball slightly deflected. Right. And that was, what, 15 minutes later? And now the game has gone on.

[Guest Analyst]

Anyway, long story short, which is something.

[Bob Sturm]

I'm incapable of, George, I would just say you have to challenge a play. That's a change of possession play. If. If a player is literally screaming at you, it hit my finger. And so we see this all the time in the NBA that players try to tell their coach to challenge something because he's positive something just happened. And then the player is full of it, and the coach actually gets annoyed that you just wasted my challenge by lying to me. But. So I. So. But a hit.

[George Dunham]

Hands different than. Hey, I think my foot was in. You know.

[Bob Sturm]

That's right. That's right.

[George Dunham]

It just seemed different to me. But, yeah, yeah, he got that one wrong. He's been 99 out of 100, it seems like, this year.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And he says, I got that one wrong.

[Guest Analyst]

And then I imagine your third one is the go for it or kick the field go late in the game.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, Okay.

[Guest Analyst]

I thought that was nuts.

[Bob Sturm]

I. Okay, again, Greg Olson will tell you that that's a go for it. It's 21.

[Guest Analyst]

21.

[Bob Sturm]

He will tell you. And do you know why?

[George Dunham]

Because he figures that. Well, let me get to the down and distance again. It was fourth and goal at the one or two. One or two? Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

I say one or two because for.

[Bob Sturm]

Some reason it was the one. But then when the. When the Eagles took over, they got it at the two, and I'm like, how did they get a yard on an incomplete pass?

[George Dunham]

Yeah, that's that's a really good point, Bob. It should have been at the one, I think. Yeah, I think. Well, his point is you're leaving the possibility this is where field position does factor into it and then you can get the ball back and in good field position, come down and score again.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[Guest Analyst]

So in the analytics game, each yard.

[Bob Sturm]

Line has a point probability attached to it when you start a possession. And so this is the whole kick return versus touchback. You know, everything in football has a quantitative value and you can either believe it or you can roll your eyes. And the two guys who are hosting this podcast have definitely been in both camps over the years of believe these things or roll our eyes. So what Greg Olson said a couple weeks ago in a game I was watching was, and I don't now, to be fair to him, I don't think it was quite as late in the fourth quarter. So maybe that matters and maybe the fact that the Cowboys were down 21 to nothing matters and all this stuff, I don't know, maybe you're playing the Eagles at home and you desperately need.

[Guest Analyst]

A signature win should matter. But whatever the case is, his claim.

[Bob Sturm]

Is you go for it on that fourth down from the one because you have a 50% chance of converting and then if you don't convert, they get the ball at 99 yards away. Now, if you kick goes from a.

[Guest Analyst]

50% chance of converting to like a.

[Bob Sturm]

98% chance of your kicker making a field goal from that close.

[Guest Analyst]

However, now you kick the ball back.

[Bob Sturm]

And I want to say the average starting field position is like the 32 or 33 this year.

[Guest Analyst]

So he's saying the difference between three points and the 33 yard line versus seven points or the one yard line.

[Bob Sturm]

Is actually a way closer trade than you might think.

[Guest Analyst]

And while I understand what he's saying.

[Bob Sturm]

I'm still kicking to take the lead, partly because I don't think the Eagles. It's not Patrick Mahomes, it's Jalen Hurts. And because of that, I think a three point lead is very valuable with three minutes to play.

[George Dunham]

I do too. Does it change that you got the ball at the eight and this is on the fumbled punt, which, by the way, man, what special teams coverage that was. And for Gibson, I need to ask, we need to find this out. Are special teams coaches in the NFL now telling their guys to catch it and return it inside the 10? Used to be heels on the 10. If it's over your head, take your chances. Or heels on the five. That seemed like a crazy return from.

[Bob Sturm]

The one yard line, it felt like they. Yes.

[Guest Analyst]

I feel like this sport is.

[Bob Sturm]

Is littered with crazy return decisions. So. So they're. Punters are really good, first of all, at killing the ball inside the 10. They're getting better and better at it, especially these rugby dudes, these Aussies and the guys who.

[Guest Analyst]

I know, a lover of special teams.

[Bob Sturm]

Like Job here has to love this era of the ability for these knuckle punts and all this craziness. But I still think it's crazy to return a punt from the two and we see it every Sunday, so that was crazy to me. And of course, it was an amazing special teams play by Elijah Clark, Marquis.

[Guest Analyst]

Bell, Trent Sieg and those guys we never talk about.

[Bob Sturm]

What a, what a unbelievable moment for them. And you know, it was just, it was just, it was just craziness. And so yes, the Eagles are very annoyed at Gibson for that decision and even more annoyed if you're going to do something like that and then give them the ball inside your 10 at the moment of truth.

[George Dunham]

But that's. We get back into. Well, it's not a good play call because it didn't work, but so we. Direct snap. It was a direct snap to Williams that got it down to the one, right? Or as a running play to Williams.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

And then Dak rolls out, nobody's there. Then the lamb drop. I guess what I'm saying is here's another thing that's happened throughout the year. No one's really stopped either Lipke or Williams from the one yard line. I'll take two chances at that and if they stop both of those, then I'm definitely kicking the field goal. But yeah, I don't know.

[Guest Analyst]

No, they're not like that.

[George Dunham]

I didn't know.

[Bob Sturm]

You're right.

[Guest Analyst]

They look. The Cowboys did a nice job of, of taking care of like Tyler Booker.

[Bob Sturm]

Did an unbelievable job on Jalen Carter all day.

[Guest Analyst]

Tyler Smith did a great job. Cooper Beebe did a great job. I was very pleased with the offensive line. They didn't run it down.

[Bob Sturm]

The Eagles throw it, but they did run. It was decent success and they definitely protected well.

[Guest Analyst]

And more than anything, my takeaway is.

[Bob Sturm]

My offensive line can deal with the Eagles defensive line because now I've seen it for eight quarters and I never felt, I never felt overwhelmed. And that is so encouraging for my future because Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis, like you would wake up in the middle of the night during the off season and just see, you know, the next five years of dealing with those two dudes and I think the Cowboys, for as much as I don't like taking guards in the first round, maybe, maybe taking guards in the first round because you play in this division against that team twice a year and against Dexter Lawrence two other times, maybe it's not as crazy as it seems.

[George Dunham]

That's what Schottenheimer said, and he didn't say it by name, but he said, hey, a lot of these teams, they have first round picks all across the front line and so you got to combat that. And I think he was talking about Philly there. If we're going to beat these guys, we've got to be good from guard to guard. Yes, obviously tackles very important too, but. But that was big. Okay, so.

[Guest Analyst]

Well, just to. Just to wrap it up though, I.

[Bob Sturm]

Do think the Cowboys need to be really careful about passing from the one yard line when they have. They have a couple power options in that backfield. I'm not saying tush push, but I am saying there's a world where there's an easier way to score a touchdown. Because now, because now based on what we saw in this game, teams are game planning. Against the Cowboys in the deep red zone inside like the five for these CD Lamb, start in the left and come all the way across the end zone back to the right. We saw the interception double covered and we saw the CD Lamb third and goal right before that fourth and goal decision.

[Guest Analyst]

We saw that covered really, really well. Now people will call that an easy CD Lamb drop. And I understand the ball did get.

[Bob Sturm]

There and so CD Lamb needs to.

[Guest Analyst]

Make his quarterback Right. But if you go back and look at that play, he has his right.

[George Dunham]

Arm being ripped by.

[Guest Analyst]

Yes, yes. And the Eagles had an ambush there. They had Nolan Smith looking like he's rushing the passer and he is absolutely.

[Bob Sturm]

Coming from the backside.

[Guest Analyst]

That's Nolan Smith. That's a defensive end. First of all, for people to say.

[Bob Sturm]

Dak should know that you are never.

[Guest Analyst]

Accounting for a defensive end trying to.

[Bob Sturm]

Buzz the tower on a guy from the far left.

[Guest Analyst]

But the Eagles absolutely were expecting CD.

[Bob Sturm]

Lamb to run a crosser across the back of the end zone. And they had a plan to trick Dakota and Dax saw it and so he threw kind of a bad ball, in my opinion, because to be fair.

[George Dunham]

Throw it inside of. Because of where the defensive end was.

[Guest Analyst]

Yes, because Lamb is wide open when.

[Bob Sturm]

He goes past the goalpost. And I mean by two or three yards on DeJean and he had to. He had to sort of back shoulder it, which is a bad idea when A corner is trailing. And so it.

[George Dunham]

I don't know.

[Bob Sturm]

I guess what I'm saying is you have to have a better idea than, than what the Cowboys love to do at that spot in the end zone. And by the way, if you just want to throw one on one place to George Pickens all day from the one that works too, let's just do that.

[George Dunham]

And speaking of that, what a performance by George Pickens. CD Lamb. That was a tough play, but he had some that he could have made. Let's talk about receivers coming up next on the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition. Okay, the Eagles had a George Pickens problem on Sunday. He was just dominant in the game. It didn't matter if it was a short route, if it was something deep. What a season he is having, the likes of which we have not seen here in Dallas outside of Bob Hayes or Michael Irvin. And it's got this discussion going now. Bob, he was supposed to be a compliment to CD Lamb. Lambs had some injuries and he's gone through some things this year, but from week one until this past Sunday, we've seen CD not have his best year. In the meantime, George Pickens has not started any fight on the field. He hasn't cost them. And in penalties, outside of hugging the goal post a couple of weeks back, you can't do that. But man, George Pickens has just been extraordinary this year.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes. Okay, so there's a number of ways to have this conversation, and I think the best way is to just simply say George Pickens is phenomenal. I'd like to say that that many.

[Guest Analyst]

Of us were surprised how little a.

[Bob Sturm]

Deal people were making about this trade. When it happened in May, I could not believe. I've always been a George Pickens fan all the way back to his draft. Love the guy, think he's a rare, rare talent. And when people say that he's a moody wide receiver, that doesn't faze me at all, to be honest with you. I kind of build that into the recipe, George, that if a guy can get me 1500 yards, I am more than willing to allow three, well, time personal files a season. One for each 500 yards he gets. That's, that's kind of my. Okay, that's my policy. I don't know if I could be your GM. But, but the. If, if. So if you're a 2000 yard receiver, you get four personal files and if you're a 1000 yard receiver, you only get two. So it's, it's, it's a Baked in recipe. Pickens is unbelievable. And I can't believe that you can add them to an offense that has CD Lamb. And that's where the conversation, I think, is getting a little out of control right now, because CD Lamb rubs some.

[Guest Analyst]

People the wrong way.

[Bob Sturm]

And I've always been trying to figure it out. George. I don't know if people don't like his grill or his red hair or his body language or that he went.

[Guest Analyst]

To Oklahoma or that he drops passes.

[Bob Sturm]

From time to time, but I will just tell you all of that. And a unbelievable playmaker who's tough as nails is a warrior. And I mean that. And the reason I mean that is we saw him play last year about.

[Guest Analyst]

Eight weeks when he absolutely could have.

[Bob Sturm]

Had surgery and decided to stay out there and fight with his team.

[Guest Analyst]

And by the way, even then, people.

[Bob Sturm]

Did not compliment him enough because they were cynical that he just wanted his.

[Guest Analyst]

Numbers, which I thought was so disrespectful because he already had his contract. And.

[Bob Sturm]

And it's just.

[Guest Analyst]

I feel like. I feel like this city loves its.

[Bob Sturm]

Franchise wide receivers and they will go to war for Michael Irvin or Drew Pearson or even DEZ Bryant.

[Guest Analyst]

But for whatever reason, and I do think there might be some Texas, Oklahoma here. I don't. I can't prove it.

[George Dunham]

I think you're onto something. I think it's all those things you mentioned, and. And sometimes maybe it's his reaction. It's the stupid stuff that we put in our brains about. What's he doing laughing about that.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[George Dunham]

You know, I just think it's mannerisms. It's.

[Guest Analyst]

Right. Right.

[George Dunham]

It's all that.

[Guest Analyst]

No, you're right.

[George Dunham]

So.

[Bob Sturm]

So CD Lamb this year has been overshadowed by George Pickens. I would argue a lot of it has to do with his high ankle sprain in Chicago. And he missed, what, a month and then probably was back as quick as he could and maybe a little too early. And so he.

[Guest Analyst]

To me, he hasn't been fully right.

[Bob Sturm]

For much of the season.

[Guest Analyst]

And when he has been fully right, we've seen these very disconcerting drops against.

[Bob Sturm]

The Eagles that kind of makes you think that it cost them the game in Philadelphia, which I think is a fair shout. And, you know, it almost cost them the game against the Eagles here.

[Guest Analyst]

And so, you know, people see that, and then they see the money he makes and they see the body language at times. Even that third down drop in the.

[Bob Sturm]

End zone on Sunday.

[Guest Analyst]

It looks like he's mad at Dak. And you know why?

[Bob Sturm]

It looks like he's mad at Dakota.

[Guest Analyst]

Because he is mad at Dak.

[Bob Sturm]

George.

[Guest Analyst]

And, and again, I'd love to hear your analysis of that play, but when I saw it, I totally understand why CD Lamb is angry at Dak Prescott. I, you know, because to me, I, I thought that that CD Lamb had an easy touchdown if Dak throws the ball either earlier or deeper to the corner on a play.

[Bob Sturm]

We've seen those two hook up on like a million times.

[Guest Analyst]

But for whatever reason.

[Bob Sturm]

And Dak had a lot going on, remember, I mean, he's getting hit, it's.

[Guest Analyst]

Been a long game, he's under a ton of stress. And so Dak is allowed to not.

[Bob Sturm]

Be perfect, I believe. And so, you know, you add it all together.

[Guest Analyst]

CD it's, it's your job to make your quarterback right?

[Bob Sturm]

And no matter where he puts the ball, go get it. And CD didn't do a good job of that on Sunday. And I think he had a pretty rough day and thankfully he caught that 40 yard pass to salvage it and now he thought he was wide open for the game winning touchdown. And he's a very emotional young man. But if I may land this plane here to this conversation. I love George Pickens. There's absolutely no chance he should play anywhere but Dallas in 2026. You sign him, you pay whatever it takes.

[Guest Analyst]

You, you, you, you redo the back.

[Bob Sturm]

Of Dax deal or you move money around to make it happen. I don't want to hear about your cap and about pieces of the pie and, and you have to keep CD Lamb, which by the way, I don't think you have any choice in the matter.

[Guest Analyst]

But the point is they're, they're great.

[Bob Sturm]

Because they're together and it's a force multiplier situation. And the best comparison, George, is how good Kenny Clark and also o Diggy Zuo look now that Quinn and Williams is here.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

You don't, you don't switch them out. You put them together. That's how great football is played, is you get a great player and you add to him. This was my Micah problem. If you want to get Micah to a higher spot, add Quinn and Williams to Micah.

[Bob Sturm]

And then people, oh, you don't understand the seller cap.

[Guest Analyst]

No, I do. I do understand the salary gap. I see San Francisco do it. I see the Philadelphia Eagles do it. I see the Kansas City Chiefs do it. You can maximize your cap simply by restructuring and allowing great players to play together, not one for the other. So now I'm hearing fans say, man, should we keep Pickens and trade CD lamps. No, you should put them together for the rest of Dax Prime.

[George Dunham]

Yes, I'm with you there. Totally with you there. And speaking of Dak, it got a little lost. It was just like a note thrown in there. He passed Tony Romo and became the Cowboys all time leading passer with something like 1 million yards. It's 13,000 some odd yards. It is amazing, isn't it that they've now played in about the same amount of games. Romo was 78 and 49. Dak is 81 and 51. Romo with a quarterback rating of 97. 1. Dak is at 98. Romos record with touchdowns and interceptions is 248 and 117. Dax, 236 touchdowns, 84 interceptions.

[Bob Sturm]

Like do people know that different quarterbacks.

[George Dunham]

Different quarterbacks. I mean, I'm not going to say, hey, they're exactly the same because they have different styles and different. But the results are almost the exact same. And the biggest one, Romo was 2 and 4 in the postseason. Dak is 2 and 5. They're rating in the playoffs about even.93 for Romo, 91.8 for Dak. They've. They've had almost the same career as far as results.

[Bob Sturm]

Right. Okay. I, I think that's amazing. I guess what I was shocked there is and I'm shocked every time I look at it how Dax somehow has a reputation of throwing more picks and yet Romo has thrown way more picks than Dax.

[George Dunham]

About 40 more. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

And in lesser games right now and.

[George Dunham]

Lesser attempts, pretty close to the same amount of games. 81, 51 and 1 for Dak and 78 and 49. So 3. Yeah, about almost the same exact amount of games.

[Bob Sturm]

Okay. I guess, I guess I was looking for like interception percentage.

[George Dunham]

Oh, percentage. Yeah.

[Bob Sturm]

I would be curious what that is. Let's see the Tony Romo.

[George Dunham]

I didn't go advanced stats on interception.

[Guest Analyst]

No, no, you're fine. Tony Romo's interception percentage is 2.7, which.

[Bob Sturm]

By the way is just fine. Nobody's saying it's bad. And this is. People get excited when we discuss these things and I don't want anyone to get excited. George Dax career. Okay. 2.7 for Romo, 2.0 for Dak, in fact. And that's, that's a big difference by the way. That's one guy has attempted. Dak has attempted 4,500 passes and he's thrown 89 interceptions. And Romo has thrown 4,300 passes and has thrown 117. That's wild. Yeah, that is wild. How? And look, it's not a discussion of who's better and who's best, it's a discussion of how great Dak Prescott has been. Because we all thought Tony Romo was pretty great. And I think now there's a very real chance Extra value meals are back. That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just $8 only at McDonald's for limited time only.

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[Bob Sturm]

That the rest of Dax career is going to leave Romo in the dust and hopefully with that is going to be 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 more playoff wins. And if he stalls at 2 then that will be extremely disappointing, especially if you can keep Pickens and Lamb around him. And you know I have high hopes for Dak Prescott because I personally think he's never played better football than we've seen here in his last couple seasons. 2024 was weird, but from from the time he turned 30 in 2023 until now where he's 32, I just think he's been amongst the league's best. And you know, I just, I just think it's, it's, it's a real credit to him because I think he could have been broken mentally by the noise and the stress and everything. Now he's always been paid well, but I just, I, I think for a guy like him to almost become a bit of a Jedi master or a 10,000 hour rule like a. I feel like he has his master's degree in quarterbacking now and, and also his body might be as good as it's ever been health wise. And so you cross your fingers and you, you, he's.

[Guest Analyst]

And by the way, for as far as that is concerned, George, he, he also is more conservative on the punishment he takes.

[Bob Sturm]

And, and that's kind of Brady and Manning secret to a long career is the smarter I get, the more I'm getting the ball out and not taking hits. Unless.

[George Dunham]

Which made the touchdown flip even more cool.

[Bob Sturm]

Yes.

[George Dunham]

I mean it's just knowing. You know what? I don't care.

[Bob Sturm]

I hope he gets that.

[George Dunham]

I'm getting this thing in there.

[Bob Sturm]

I hope he gets that picture and puts it right over his fireplace because that is an awesome picture of him flying into the end zone in what might have been a top three or top five win in his career. Yeah. Yeah, that was just.

[George Dunham]

Totally agree with that.

[Bob Sturm]

Just awesome.

[George Dunham]

All right, now this little team called the Kansas City Chiefs comes to town for the traditional Thanksgiving Day game. Let's talk about that matchup. What the Chiefs are this year. Bob's been keeping an eye on the 1975 season. What happened on Thanksgiving Day in 1975 in the National Football League? It's a bit of a trick question when it comes to the Cowboys and we'll talk about that on the Muse, the podcast Cowboys edition. Coming up next, Cowboys and Chiefs Thanksgiving Day post Malone probably Tay Taylor. Bob, you couldn't ask for more than this, could you?

[Bob Sturm]

I couldn't. I'm so excited.

[George Dunham]

I'm so thankful for games like this.

[Bob Sturm]

We're going to be so exhausted by all this football. That's. Oh man, that's the thing, man. To go Eagles, Chiefs in five days and then they're going to sprinkle in of course your Texas, Texas A and M on Friday and all the good football in the NFL both Sunday and, and Thursday. And then we have a black Friday game. The Eagles and the Bears play Friday afternoon.

[George Dunham]

How are we at North Texas and Temple on Friday, Bob? I won't scoring team in the country, man.

[Bob Sturm]

I just Our eyes are going to hurt. I hope, I hope your eyes trained hard in the off season so you can watch all this football.

[George Dunham]

I know it's, it is hard and fast and as we talked about last week, it's four games in 17 days for the Cowboys. When you go Monday, Sunday, Thursday, Thursday, that's a lot of football in just a little bit of time. And here come the Chiefs just fighting like heck to make the playoffs. Right now. They're out of the picture. We were talking about this this week on, on the Ticket in Dallas. I get the feeling that the Chiefs, like the Eagles, they have a worse record but similar problems. And I. They're not right. And a very high standard for a team that has made seven straight AFC title games. Just let that sink in for a second and how good they have been during the Patrick Mahomes era. But yeah, they're not right. The, their record is not much better than the Cowboys and yet they are capable of coming in here and giving the Cowboys fits and putting 30 some odd points up on the board and make the Cowboys chase them. What do you, what's your overall view of the Chiefs? How good is this team that that comes in here?

[Guest Analyst]

Well, it's weird because our perception of the Chiefs is that they are a.

[Bob Sturm]

Lot like the Eagles. They're winning, ugly and everything like that.

[Guest Analyst]

But then when you pull up the numbers, the Chiefs offense actually after September has been pretty doggone impressive.

[Bob Sturm]

Like they had 500 yards against the Colts. They had 400 yards a couple weeks.

[Guest Analyst]

Ago against the Commanders.

[Bob Sturm]

On Monday night, they had 400 yards against Las Vegas.

[Guest Analyst]

Don't know what that should tell us. They had 475 at Jacksonville on that Monday night.

[Bob Sturm]

And so, so they've had some, they've.

[Guest Analyst]

Had some big nights. They also yards per play. They're, they're, they're not super, super explosive.

[Bob Sturm]

But what they do is they build drives and they build drives because Patrick Mahomes is so good at what he does. And really what he does is he kind of seems to figure out mid game what does this game call for? And then I'll do that. And, and I really obviously respect what that means for them because you know, their, their supporting cast is not ideal. Their running back situation has been a lot of Kareem Hunt, a lot of Pacheco. Pacheco has been down for like a month, but we're hearing he'll be ready to roll.

[Guest Analyst]

But as far as weapons go, Kelsey's not the same guy, but he's still decent.

[Bob Sturm]

But, but The Hollywood Brown thing has not been great.

[Guest Analyst]

The Xavier Worthy game. I just, I, I don't know that Xavier Worthy has been anywhere close to what they hoped. Juju Smith Schuster has pretty much faded.

[Bob Sturm]

Completely out of the mix.

[Guest Analyst]

And so the return of Rasheed Rice.

[Bob Sturm]

Has been such a big, big deal for them. After his self imposed self inflicted suspension, he's come back and he had a huge game against the Colts, 8 for 141. And you know, I think I sort of mocked the idea that when Rasheed Rice was their battle cry for those first six weeks, it was like these.

[Guest Analyst]

Guys think they're getting Jerry Rice back.

[Bob Sturm]

From a suspension because he's just Rasheed Rice. But I have to admit he's had three or four games since his return that have been spectacular and the Chiefs do look better with him. So he's not Jerry Rice. But the SMU pony is definitely instantly their best playmaker and he's, he's a tough guy to corral.

[Guest Analyst]

So offensively they're pretty good. And I want to say was it last year, the year before where we.

[Bob Sturm]

Pretty much flipped the narrative that the Chiefs are stinky on offense and their defense with Spagnolo is carrying them? I think we've kind of gone back to old Chiefs where if you look at the Chiefs, you know, statistics across the line, fifth in yards, 14th and rushing, second in passing.

[Guest Analyst]

Top 10 on third downs it looks like.

[Bob Sturm]

And their offense is points wise, they're also top 10.

[Guest Analyst]

So it's not always pretty. I do think Mahomes needs a few.

[Bob Sturm]

More playmakers to be peak. Mahomes, like if he had Pickens and Lamb, what would that look like? But, but, but, but they know what he needs and what he usually does is just enough to keep the Chiefs winning. And of course now you're playing the Chiefs in a horrible time because for once the Chiefs are looking at this game as we, we can't afford any more trips or we might not even make the playoffs.

[George Dunham]

And so that's, that would be something.

[Bob Sturm]

You'Re playing age desperate Chiefs team and that's, that's not a great spot.

[George Dunham]

Now I don't have a great feeling about it just because that very point right there. And I think if you back Mahomes and the Chiefs into a corner. Yeah, look out. I do. What do you enjoy the possibility, the possibility of a incredible shootout on Thanksgiving afternoon? I think this could be like, like the packers game.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, it could be. And, and I, I wonder what you make of one and four on the road for our Chiefs.

[George Dunham]

That's interesting.

[Bob Sturm]

Now, one, one was, I want to say Brazil. The, the first, that Friday night game against the Chargers, was that Brazil?

[George Dunham]

I think, yes.

[Bob Sturm]

So. So.

[Guest Analyst]

So otherwise they played in Denver.

[George Dunham]

They didn't look very good. No Buffalo, I would say their offense looked worse than the Cowboys did that day.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, they lost at Jacksonville, at Buffalo.

[Bob Sturm]

At Denver in their last three road games. Yeah, well, they beat the Giants there. They beat the Giants on a Sunday night. But that was September 21st, I think the same day the Cowboys lost CD Lamb at Soldier Field was that week three. Yeah.

[George Dunham]

Yeah. And from what I remember about that Giants game, that was. That was closer than that final score may indicate. In other words, they're still the Chiefs, but they're not world beaters. And I think that's one thing we run into in this league of past reputation.

[Bob Sturm]

Yep.

[George Dunham]

You know, and you think, oh, wow, they're not going to be just like all this the last few weeks. Well, you got the Eagles, the Chiefs and the Lions. And I agree that's tougher than some other stretches of this schedule when you're playing the Commanders and the Giants. But at the same time, it's this league. And I know you preach this a lot and you're exactly right. This is not college football. This is not the number one ranked team or the fifth ranked team coming to town. And you're just in the middle of your division and you have no chance to win a game like this. We saw the Lions have to fight like khaki to beat the, to beat the Giants. Cowboys beat the Eagles. And you just outlined right there. This is a Chiefs team that has been very beatable this year.

[Bob Sturm]

Now here's the question I would have. And we really haven't even mentioned the Cowboys defense. I think a development that is really, really interesting and I want to see more, and we're going to get more.

[Guest Analyst]

Is why did the Eagles not even.

[Bob Sturm]

Try to run inside on the Cowboys?

[George Dunham]

Good question.

[Bob Sturm]

So we only have two games of Quinn and Williams in our life. They've been wonderful. Although I think we should understand one of the reasons we're nervous about Thanksgiving Day is that George Pickens and Quinn and Williams look hurt. George did not have a whole lot left in his giddy up at the end of that game. And Quinn and caught that massive shoulder from Saquon on a chip mid game and he kept playing. But that's the type of thing you wake up and your ribs maybe Monday. And yeah, he looks. Well, I mean, look what we ask of these guys to Play four days after they just played a game is. Is not good.

[George Dunham]

It's a product. It's ridiculous. But we like my Thursday night plan at some point. We don't have time for it now, but I, yeah, I think it. During the season. It's ridiculous. And as much as I love the traditional Thanksgiving Day game, I would like a day for the teams who play on Thanksgiving. The week before is their bye week.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I, I'm with you and I'm, you know, I think there's a way to do it. Like you just said, everybody who plays on Thursday gets to come off a buy, and that's the best way to preserve the product. But as it stands, the Cowboys and really every team that plays on Thanksgiving, which is six, and then there's two more on Black Friday, I just.

[Guest Analyst]

These games are even tougher to sort.

[Bob Sturm]

Of predict, just be based on. You don't even really know who's available because really nobody practices between Sunday and Thursday. They'll go out there in shorts, but.

[Guest Analyst]

But there's no way of knowing.

[Bob Sturm]

Could somebody give it a go for, you know, any of these teams? So, yeah, that applies to the Detroit Green Bay game and what the Bengals, Ravens at night. And, you know, it's just, it's very.

[Guest Analyst]

Very difficult to get a feel for these matchups.

[Bob Sturm]

But anyway, if we may circle all the way back. What I think is amazing, George, is that in two games with Quinn and Williams, we've seen opponents pretty much decide during the week when they built their game plan that we're not even going to challenge the Cowboys with inside runs anymore. And I don't know if that's just.

[Guest Analyst]

A coincidence because the Raiders stink. But Ashton Genty was the best college.

[Bob Sturm]

Football running back in 2024 and Saquon Barkley was the best NFL running back in 2024. And you just played them in back to back weeks.

[Guest Analyst]

And we know the Cowboys have spent like three straight years being the silliest.

[Bob Sturm]

Most horrible inside run defense in all of organized football.

[Guest Analyst]

And the fact that neither team even tried, I think is what happens when.

[Bob Sturm]

Teams look at film of Quinn and Williams and Kenny Clark and they just say, yeah, let's try something else.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

And if, if the Cowboys now are.

[Bob Sturm]

A team that is like the Buccaneers were a couple years ago and the Ravens have been where you just don't even bother because you're so intimidated by what would happen to your run game, then, then we might be underestimating how good this defense can ultimately be, especially when they go get Two first round picks and maybe, maybe add Caleb Downs and. And one of those Buckeye linebackers to this defense. That insane too. But I guess I'm super excited to see what Andy Reid thinks because the Cowboys have some butt kickers up front now and it's not just Quinn.

[Guest Analyst]

And I'm so excited about how good.

[Bob Sturm]

OSA now looks, that he has some chances and that he has some help. And Kenny Clark, like, again, the fancy.

[Guest Analyst]

Term force multiplier is a thing.

[Bob Sturm]

And, and, and when you talk about Quinn and Williams, it kind of looks like his presence is allowing the other guys to eat.

[George Dunham]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

And he had eight pass pressures himself. How insane is that?

[George Dunham]

Oh, I know. Yeah. You can see the impact of Quinn and Williams here in the last couple of weeks, but I think you're right. When your last two opponents have tried it 30 times for 90 yards and a lot of that was not inside, I don't get it. I think that especially if Pacheco is back this week, Kareem Hunt has an ability to run inside, delay draws, things like that where you're so worried about, you know, what Kansas City likes to do. Yeah. I think you could see them try to hit it up. Hit it up in there.

[Bob Sturm]

Hit it up in there.

[Guest Analyst]

Exactly. And I will say it doesn't mean.

[Bob Sturm]

And there was nothing between the tackles because like the Jalen hurts quarterback draw was. But I'm talking about like here's Saquon and here's our favorite, you know, power play or, or inside zone or something like that. And, and it. I think, I think they tried three inside runs with Saquon and I think it was for three yards total. And, and you know, and Genti. Very much the same thing. So. So now they're trying outside runs, which of course plays right into a guy like having Demarvey and Overshone back to cover the flanks. So maybe the best way to see if you fixed linebacker is to not need them as much because the opponents are trying something else. Which, which, which. What a treat that actually is.

[George Dunham]

Well, the Cowboys have played on Thanksgiving 57 times. They're 34, 22 and 1. Growing up, I always thought the Cowboys won on Thanksgiving. I can only remember really one painful game from my youth. I believe it's 1979. Earl Campbell and the Houston Oilers on Thanksgiving just ran all over the doomsday defense. And yeah, it was crushing. But you've been following the 1975 team. It's the 50th anniversary of that very special team. First wild card team to go to A Super bowl, the Hail Mary in Minnesota, and the divisional round. But you're telling me in 1975 the cowboys did not play on Thanksgiving? What the heck, Bob? No, no.

[Bob Sturm]

In fact, the. The 23rd, which was this past Sunday, they had a home game against the Eagles, ironically enough.

[George Dunham]

Whoa, okay.

[Bob Sturm]

Just like this year's team. And they were able to take care of those Eagles 27 17. So now their record moves to 7 and 3. And so I was like, man, I wonder who they play on Thanksgiving. I look at the schedule and they don't play again till Sunday the 30th when the new York Football Giants come calling and they will, they will go for the season sweep against the Giants and they only have four games left. This is a 7 and 3 team playing a 14 game schedule.

[George Dunham]

14 games.

[Bob Sturm]

So. So they finish with the Giants at St. Louis, the Washington Redskins at home, and then they finish the regular season at the New York Jets. And so I have erased all the final scores, so I don't know what happens. I'm building the wait and see. But it was Bob. It was Bob Lilly day at Texas Stadium.

[George Dunham]

Okay. Retired the year before.

[Bob Sturm]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

And Preston Pearson had his real breakout game with the Cowboys.

[Bob Sturm]

And Harvey Martin had three traps, which if you're following the 75 Cowboys, you know that back then they called sacks traps.

[George Dunham]

Oh, yeah, we get a trap here, Brad, because Harvey Martin was so good on the outside. That's what you'd hear on the Tom Landry Show. Coach Landry called them traps.

[Guest Analyst]

I got to tell you, I kind of like sacks better than traps.

[Bob Sturm]

I'm happy, okay.

[Guest Analyst]

Happy we switched it. I don't know who was in charge.

[Bob Sturm]

Of switching the vernacular, but.

[George Dunham]

Well, back then we didn't even keep.

[Bob Sturm]

Track of them right till 70.

[George Dunham]

Was it 78?

[Guest Analyst]

I think 78 was.

[Bob Sturm]

Is the first official recording of NFL stats as sacks being a real thing.

[George Dunham]

So Art Model jumped in and said, yeah, enough of Dallas playing on Thanksgiving, because I guess way back in the day the Browns did play on Thanksgiving and then they gave it up. And then was that the whole reason why they. The Cowboys didn't play? I bet that was a really interesting discussion between Art Model and Tech Shram.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. And what's interesting about it is we.

[Bob Sturm]

Had two Thanksgiving Day games in 1975. The Lions did play a home game and they got spanked in the 70s by the. The Los Angeles Rams 20 to nothing. And then I want to say the second game was what America wanted instead of the Cowboys at home. And this was the Buffalo bills going to St. Louis to take on Jim Hart and the St. Louis Cardinals. And the Bills smoked them 32 to 14 in St. Louis on Thanksgiving. And O.J. simpson did not lead the Bills in rushing.

[George Dunham]

What?

[Guest Analyst]

This is O.J.

[George Dunham]

Had.

[Bob Sturm]

Boy, listen to this. O.J.

[Guest Analyst]

Had 23 carries for 85 yards. Jim Braxton had 34 carries for 160. That means. That means the Buffalo Bills ran the ball 57 times in this game, George.

[Bob Sturm]

And they won going away.

[George Dunham]

Joe Ferguson hurt or something. They just said, okay, we're just gonna run the single wing here.

[Guest Analyst]

Ferguson 11, 11 for 22, no touchdowns and two picks.

[Bob Sturm]

So.

[George Dunham]

Oh, okay.

[Bob Sturm]

So whoever was coaching the Bills that day, which appears to be the great Lou Saban.

[George Dunham]

Ah, yes, Lou Saban.

[Bob Sturm]

He said after that second pick, look, we're running the ball the rest of the day. We're not doing any more of this nonsense. And he took down Don Coriel, knocking the St. Louis back to 8 and 3. The Bills go to 7 and 4 with this Thanksgiving 1975 game.

[George Dunham]

Cardinal should have hung on to Don Coryell. They could. Yeah, they should for a while. I don't know what they were thinking. No doubt bad the Cardinals decision, I'm sure.

[Guest Analyst]

All right, all our football friends listeners.

[Bob Sturm]

Are hyped to know what happened on Thanksgiving of 1975.

[George Dunham]

Well, I'm hyped because it's Thanksgiving week. Thankful for you, Bob, and our discussion here of of the Cowboys. Hope you have a great one with your family and likewise. Okay, next week, if we're back here and this team has knocked off the Eagles and Chiefs back to back, we're going to have a lot of things either way. We're going to have a lot of things to talk about, but we've really got something to say if the Cowboys can pull this off.

[Guest Analyst]

That's right. And when you're traveling around, take your football friends with you. We're going to make sure that we don't miss an episode, even if we have to jam it in there during the holidays. No problem. We got it.

[George Dunham]

No problem whatsoever. Thanks to Ty Webker, who made this possible, producing the Musers the podcast Cowboys edition. Because Bob and I are football friends. Yeah. And we will be back again next week.

[Bob Sturm]

Way to go, dude. This is fun.

[George Dunham]

Way to go. It is fun. I enjoy it. Every week.

[F]

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