B (4:29)

Yeah.

C (4:30)

And honestly, the takeaway from me, George, 91 points in two games against Detroit in consecutive years, different coordinators, but 91 points and you just have no prayer of stopping the Lions offense. Other teams seem to have ideas. The Cowboys, I mean, it's worse than 10 points a quarter if you think about it. Yeah, 91 points and eight quarters. And on Thursday they gave up 10, 10, 7 and then 17 in the four quarters and they only gave up 7 in the third quarter because the Lions actually missed a field goal. Otherwise it would have been double digits in each quarter.

B (5:14)

Okay, can I offer a defense for the defense? And it's something that nobody likes to talk about except here on the Muse, the podcast Cowboys edition, we're going to talk about the defense they did not play. Well, there's no doubt about it. But let me give you starting points for the Detroit Lions in this football game. Kick returned to the 47. Punt returned to the Dallas 41. Ferguson fumble recovered at the Dallas 47. A Kevante Turpin return to the 50. But the Cowboys hold on the play. Shamar germs. Shamar germs. Shamar James holds on the play. So, so instead of starting at midfield, you start at your 20. There's 30 yards in hidden yardage and it's not that hidden when it's that obvious. And then the other turnover, the interception that goes off of George Pickens and has returned to the Dallas 14. You can't win games like that and you can't win games with turnovers. Three of them. Now this team, Bob, is you try to do the diagnostics on them. They're a minus 8 in turnover margin. I would tell you there is no way a team has ever won the super bowl with a minus eight this late in the season. And I would also say it's a very short list of teams who've made the playoffs with a minus eight turnover margin.

C (6:39)

Well, that's great. I need to look that up.

B (6:41)

Yeah, I was going to, but I, I'm not feeling well today.

C (6:45)

Well, it's just, it's just brutal. Yeah, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't lose a turnover game. And those two, I mean there were three turnovers but there's in my mind two because the third one was.

C (6:58)

Playing out the game. But the fumble by Jake Ferguson was a killer. Terrible. And more importantly the George Pickens half hearted effort on the slant to open the second half. Brutal. And you can't do it. And in both cases it goes back to the team not really looking ready to play. And I know that's a term that we always hang on a coach. If Mike McCarthy or Wade Phillips didn't have the team quote ready to play, that's one of the signs that we got the wrong guy coaching. I'm not willing to go there because I am under the spell of Brian Schottenheimer as I think a promising, optimistic coach for the future. But of course we pick and choose our pieces of evidence based on whether we like a guy or don't. Um, McCarthy would have been hammered for this effort because it was everybody. It was, it was everybody and it was nobody. Like, like when you, when you say who are the big fault points of this game? I know George Pickens caught all the shouty shows and I'm sure we'll spend some time on him as we Should. But the offensive line was brutal. Brutal. Jake Ferguson, dude, you're killing us, man. You know, and just Turpin. Another fake fair catch or whatever you're thinking. And yeah. And special teams. And then we don't even get to the defense where Kenneth Murray just put another.

C (8:28)

Just masterclass performance of how is this guy still in the NFL? You know, Tehran Bland is falling down. It just like it was bad and it felt contagious and it felt like it was too big for them. So. But two, circling all the way back to your original point of. Of the hidden yardage and the special teams. I mean, we've kind of seen this rear its head against Kansas City where, where the Cowboys were starting each drive. I want to say 16 yards behind the Chiefs and over the course of, let's say 10 drives, that's 160 yards of hidden yardage. This is. This is Bill Parcell's. Textbook stuff, is the stuff. You guys don't talk about hidden yardage, and that's special teams. But it's also a product of am I asking my punter to basically have his butt on the goalpost when he punts? Or did I fumble the ball? Did I turn the ball over in my own territory? These are.

C (9:34)

Details of a losing football game or a losing football team. And so you add too many of them up and you are where you are. I'll be honest, I've about had it with the special teams coverage units in terms of, you know, if I got a kicker who can hit from 70, then I got a kicker that could just concede touchbacks and, and I can't. I can't be giving Detroit the ball outside their own 40. I'm with the average, you know, just.

B (10:05)

Touchback and either touchback or.

B (10:10)

And I. It's kind of like a golfer, I guess, just hitting an iron a little bit short. But hey, I want. If that's short, I want it to land at the two.

C (10:19)

Yeah.

B (10:19)

And if it's not, it's landing five yards deep and make the guy think about it. He's probably going to take a knee. Yeah, let's. Until they get better on kick coverage then. Because a lot of those kicks, I don't have all of them charted. The first three never got inside the five.

C (10:38)

So what's going on?

B (10:39)

That's on Aubrey, you know, I mean, that's. You. You've got to put that thing inside the five yard line and, I don't know, make it tough on him. A really high kick that he's really got to Stop. He can't. It's not a line drive that he takes a running start at and catches it at the 8, and he's, you know, all of a sudden down the sideline. That was. That was really bad. And having said all that, we haven't got to the defense yet. And I'll let you. I'll let you tear apart the defense, which had a lot of bad moments. Despite all of that, we've already mentioned about 15 bad things.

B (11:13)

This score is 30 to 27 with 952 left. Yeah, after the Cowboys came back, clawed their way back, I was somewhat impressed with that. It's 30, 27. Okay, here we go. And the kick is returned to the 41. And then it's third and 6.

C (11:31)

And you got him. Third and 6.

B (11:33)

You got him. Okay, you got him. Third and 6. You're going to get him off the field. Williams shakes loose, and then just for good measure, once you're off the passer, James Houston while you're at it. And now Detroit's at the 13. And if it wasn't ball game, it is at that point as it goes to 37. 27.

C (11:52)

Yeah. Well, that's. That's brutal. That also is a. A plus. Jared Goff throw. And this team, you know, continues to sink down the standings with regards to pressure on the passer. And so, you know, I mean, there's. There's a number of things going on here. I do come back to. In a game like this, when your defense lets you down, and make no mistake, they did.

C (12:24)

I am taken with the fact that there are a few issues that are going on with this defense that are fundamental issues, but that the Cowboys did not have to deal with when, you know, Micah Parsons lived here. Because we detailed it. We talked about the fact that this is a team that gets turnovers and gets sacks, and that makes everything else less important. Well, now that we are post Micah Parsons and he's not coming back, they don't get sacks and they don't get takeaways. And so now you have to get stops like sacks and takeaways. And also I would say holding penalties are three ways to get stops that are sort of cheat codes. If you can do those, they're all drive killers. Like, there's no sacks. And holding penalties will absolutely ruin just about every drive and put a offense in a real, real bind. And then, of course, turnovers are killers. Well, if you're not generating any of those, then you have to do the traditional. Well, we just have to get off the field on third down. And as we detailed last week, the third down defense here has been the worst in NFL history. It's actually improving. You're actually now, I think, tied with Cincinnati for the worst in 2025. And you are off. You're off the grill for the worst. But, you know, this is, this is. If you want to have an interesting conversation, it's the, okay, we can't stop the run. We have no defensive tackles. Let's take all of our resources and go get defensive tackles. But in doing so, we get rid of all of our strengths. And DeMarcus Lawrence is on Seattle and Micah Parsons is on Green Bay. And we wonder two of the best.

B (14:14)

Teams in the nfc, two of the.

C (14:16)

Best defenses of the NFL, and those two guys are primary reasons for it. And so I'm not suggesting this is DeMarcus Ware in Denver. And as I recall, DeMarcus had a couple sacks in the Super Bowl. Even I might. I'm not making that up, am I? And demarcus obviously had Von Miller and that great Denver defense. But the point is.

C (14:42)

I.

C (14:44)

Quinn and Williams is awesome. But if you were serious about trying to win a Super bowl, you add Quinn and Williams to Micah Parsons and you're like, oh, what about the salary cap? I don't want to relitigate this again, but this is playing a big boy offense. Like, in my opinion, there aren't three offenses in the NFL I would rather have than Detroit's. But now you don't have any ability to stop them. And someone's yelling at their podcast machine right now. We'll call it a phone. We'll maybe call it a stereo. And they're saying, bob, they had Micah Parsons and Denver or Detroit scored 47 on them last year. Yeah, you're right. Which is why I would say Micah's not the be all, end all. That's why I need Quinn and Williams next to Micah Parsons and DeMarcus Lawrence. Not instead of. Because now it's. It's the holes in the dike. And you, you're using this hand to plug this one, but now this one springs open. And so that's where they are defensively. They just don't have the guys.

B (15:51)

Okay, one more thing on defense before we get to George Pickens, who is his own topic this week.

C (15:56)

Yes.

B (15:56)

In Dallas, Fort Worth.

B (16:00)

I thought Detroit had a really good plan, and this is why I thought the Cowboys had a decent chance. Jared Goff, like a lot of quarterbacks, doesn't seem to react well to pressure up the middle. So to me especially going back and looking at it, they did a good job to put Gibbs isolated on the Cowboy linebackers. And you know who, I ain't going to mention who it was early in the game. I will. And getting golf's eyes outside to where it's a quick hitting play, you really don't have to worry about pressure up the middle. Just give me something and you're good. It's not as if he's in the pocket. And the Cowboys have a dis have a chance to disrupt from their place of strength now which is in the middle. And you're right, not enough pressure off the edge to speed golf up. And then some of those routes he hit to Aman Ross St. Brown and to Jameson Williams were we're catching runs where again you're isolating them on. Yeah, that may be an upgrade for Dallas at corner but I think Jameson Williams can make either Revel or Bridges look pretty bad. And they did.

C (17:13)

Yeah, yeah it, you know, I mean this is, this is how offense is played is what's the best way to deal with pass rush is I get the ball out super quick and there's, you know, there's zero ways to really attack a quarterback with blitzing that doesn't require two and a half seconds. And the Aman Ra play that killed them was a second and 13 or so early in the game. And the Cowboys are facing a bunch and when they face a bunch it kind of screws up your coverage. But you try to play man through it or I mean you gotta have some idea. So they played cover one which I think might be an adjust to bunch formation. And what that does is it allows, you know, some switch releases and some even some rubs but they didn't have to do it with Amon Ra versus Ready Stewart. It's just, it's just that one guy's just too quick for the other. And that was that 26 yard play across the middle of the middle of the defense. And so you know, golf takes by the time golf gets the ball he already knows he's going to Amanra across the middle. And one of the reasons you can do that is I got Gibbs going wide, I've got Jameson going deep. I've even got Tesla up against Duron Bland. So I'm out of guys like if I'm going to play man, I'm putting my best man guy on their best guy and my second best on their second best. My third best on their third best. Okay, well now I got a banged up Amanra St. Brown, who is probably their biggest threat, but also the fourth most dangerous threat, if that makes sense. And in that situation, Righty Stewart's got a cover somebody and he's just not quick enough across the middle. And there is nobody in the middle of the field. So it's a three yard pass that gains 26. And remember the Gibbs opening drive, it's a two yard pass. Like I'm confident you or I can complete that to Gibbs in the middle of the field. He shakes Kenneth Murray and he goes for, I want to say 25 more. The pass out on the flat to Gibbs, which is behind the line of scrimmage. That goes for 19. And so the Lions passing game is finding explosives with quick hitting passes to spaces that they determine are Cowboy weaknesses, which are many. And so it's the old discussion about each sport is this a strong link or a weak link sport. And I've always thought football is more of a weak link sport, basketball being the strong link sport, meaning if you have the best player, you probably win. Where in football teams can just basically spread you out and find your weak link and take advantage of it. And so Detroit spreads you out. And if they want to go at Kenneth Murray, they can. If they want to go at Ready Steward, they can. Or if they simply want to expand the danger and then attack the middle where it's all been vacated, they can do that as well. And there's really no danger on Jared Goff because the ball is gone. And that's great design. I think the Cowboys would agree that that's great offensive design. But how do you stop it? Well, you only stop it if you got the guys. And there's one thing very clear to us, is that the Cowboys have to play zone mostly because they don't have the guys. And when they man up against a team with any offensive talent, it is Katie bar the door. It is bad.

B (20:56)

Okay, back to the other side of the ball. How concerned are you about George Pickens after the game? I thought maybe we're making too big a deal about it. He got slammed to the turf on that first catch that knocked out the Detroit defensive back. Maybe he jammed his shoulder on that. But watching that, he made several catches after that that were okay. I don't think that is an excuse and. But I will also back up Pickens in that this does not necessarily mean he's going back to the dark side that he did have in Pittsburgh. He did some crazy, insane things that hurt their football team. And that's why. And at Georgia and at Georgia, and that's why they'd had enough of them. And this game, I do think, I guess the one I eventually buy is. And maybe I think this is an interesting battle moving forward for other teams who play the Cowboys these last four games.

B (21:53)

If you double Pickens, are you willing to get killed on the other side by Lamb because he will kill you. But they, they did a really good job of bracketing Pickens of hitting him. And that jogging route that went incomplete where Dak went to talk to him, like, what exactly was that? And that's where it got to the point of no return with him in that. Yeah, he had a bracket on him. And I'm thinking in his mind they're probably going to go to CD on this one. So I'm not going to run a legitimate route where I drive and then come back and maybe I'm open. He just jogged and Dak had no play. I don't know. How did you square away what was really the first poor game of the year for George Pickens?

C (22:39)

Yeah, it was not good enough. And we don't know, we don't know if he's playing hurt. We don't know if he got hurt in the first quarter. I will say this, though. Long before people started identifying the poor efforts, I thought one of the first third downs of the game.

C (22:59)

Was a poor effort from him that killed the drive. It was third and 10 and he ran like a dig right into Avante Maddox. So I'm not saying it's easy, but I have seen George Pickens come meet the ball because it does look like if you, if you completely squared off, it is going to be a collision with the safety, Although the safety, let's be Honest, Avante Maddox is 5, 9, 180 and George Pickens is massive. So I realize you might have had to pay a toll to keep that drive alive, but he did not show just a whole lot of conviction.

B (23:33)

I know exactly what you're talking about.

C (23:35)

Yeah. It's mid first quarter and it kind of was a indicator of how, how interested he was that game. And, and I don't, I don't have a good explanation for it, but if you're asking, is it, is it a concern, is it, is it a disconcerting moment at a critical time of the season? Yeah. Yeah. And do I want to make sure I get him into the facility and put a giant contract in front of him the next day to confirm that his behavior is great? No. I mean, look, all these discussions, whether it be Micah Parsons or Luka Doncic or George Pickens or literally any of these guys is very basic. It's, if I hand this guy the moon, is it going to make his behavior untenable? And that's the discussion all these teams have. And they're right to have the discussion. Like, it's one thing to draft a guy and have a small commitment to him monetarily while he's chasing the bag, but once you hand him the bag, then he can kind of do whatever he wants because there's so much of that guaranteed. And he sort of becomes co owner of the franchise if you do that. And so mistakes are made. Right.

C (25:00)

This is why the discussion is so fascinating. Is okay, when he is playing for his contract, he behaves. And then the second he gets his contract, will he revert to, you know what the people have always said, I'm not willing to go there because I think we're in December. And he has spent all of July, August, September, October, November being a guy that his teammates seem to swear by and his production has been out of this world. I think especially in a road game where everybody is sort of playing poorly, I think it's somewhat normal to have a bad game in that situation where we all say, where was he that day? It would be extra disconcerting if the rest of the team was there and he was just checked out. But like we said earlier in the show, I think you could say there were 10 or 12 guys that played, quote, their worst game of the season in Detroit. So I guess, George, I net out at. This is a. This is something on the page, but it's not the whole page. And I think, I think, I think it would be easy to say, I can't pay this guy. I heard Mark Schlerith say I would not consider signing him after an effort like that, but that sounds insane to me.

B (26:27)

He hasn't been watching what we've been watching all year long.

C (26:30)

To take 17 games. To boil it down to one Thursday night in December. I don't love it, but I'm obviously not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater. So are you still okay extension wise?

B (26:43)

I think so. I think so. Because here's the thing. I don't really think they have a choice. If this is, if the plan is the next two years, let's put the throttle down the best way can while Dak is still upright. Yes, it's a risk.

C (26:58)

Yes.

B (26:59)

But you know what? We're going to have to take some risk like that. And how else are you going to get a receiver in here like that over the next couple of years.

C (27:08)

That's right. No, you're spot on. I guess my question would be.

C (27:14)

Franchise tag, which he's getting.

B (27:17)

No, he's not going to be happy about that.

C (27:19)

Mighty listed, bad behavior. I don't know.

B (27:23)

I give him some sort of deal that in a couple of years I could get out of it, but it's going to make him. It's going to give him a deal that will make him happy. And after the 27 season, I have some sort of out.

C (27:34)

Okay. I don't hate that. I will say I feel okay about it all because Dak Prescott lives here and CD Lamb live here. And I'll say it again. You don't have to tell me, you don't have to agree with me that these guys are NFL legends. There will probably not be a Dak Prescott statue outside AT&T unless things really change for the Cowboys in terms of winning a Super Bowl. But I do believe that Dak Prescott competes at a very high level. He does not go down without a fight, and he competes his tail off through games, through seasons, whether it's good, bad or indifferent. And I think CD Lamb is one of the biggest warriors on this team in this generation. And I'll go back to last year, playing with a separated shoulder week after week after week with Cooper Rush, not Dak Prescott. And so with those two guys running my offensive huddle in my offensive room, I said this in May when they traded for him. I'm going to ask both of these guys, do you guys want this trade to happen? And they're going to say yes. And then I'm going to say, okay, but there's going to be some times where I'm going to need you guys to police him.

B (28:59)

Yes. Talk him off that ledge that he's about to jump off of. And.

C (29:03)

Yeah, right. I'm going to need some big brothers to be their brother's keeper at times. And I'm not trying to be insulting to George, but I am saying Pickens, that is, I would never insult George Dunham, but I would just say I need you guys to. Yeah. Talk him down. Talk some sense into him. Get him to cool down, get him to keep his head in the game. I never, honestly.

C (29:31)

I don't want to take that for granted because I don't think most quarterbacks, I would feel comfortable doing it. But I do with this guy and I do with Dak. And I think Hard Knocks is even helping me feel better about coach and quarterback emotionally and their voices and their influence. And so this will all be put to the test. But I agree with you. I'm still on the George Pickens train. I still believe in his future and I still believe you're sort of required to do so to take advantage of this two or three year upcoming window and full steam ahead. But I'm going to put even more on dak and CD to say you guys make sure that we're getting the best George Pickett's we can get because all of our butts are on the line if we're wrong about this deal.

B (30:16)

Yeah, yeah, I am into all that. Okay, well, according to my math, the Philadelphia Eagles are 8 and 5. The Cowboys are 6, 6 and 1. That's only a game and a half difference. We got four football games to play, Pop. There's a chance out there. Let's talk about how good the chance is and let's talk about what's gone wrong with those little Philly. Philly Eagles next.

C (30:45)

This episode is brought to you by NBA on Prime. This Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern, it's the Emirates NBA cup championship game on Prime. This year's quest for the cup has been building to this the championship game live from Las Vegas. Not a Prime member. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. The Emirates NBA Cup Championship game this Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

B (31:12)

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C (32:46)

Yeah, I think that will be pretty difficult. I think the division is your path.

C (32:52)

I mean, the problem remains pretty simple. Right. You, you did a nice job of losing your head to head matchups with everybody else in the race.

B (33:02)

Yeah. Shot you. Yeah.

C (33:05)

Now you do have the tie. So I guess it's not quite as, as, as penal as it may have been. But yeah, you, you just look at the standings and you're like, okay, seven seed of Chicago. We lost the head to head. So they have a comfortable lead. Head to head with Detroit, head to head with Carolina. Like it's it. If we could hand pick which games you win and lose, we did not do a very good job.

B (33:30)

That was bad. But okay, let's break it down this way. It's still very difficult. That's why you see Dallas Cowboys playoff percentages to make it right around 9%. That's why you see 95% with Philly. But with everything, there's a little bit of nuance. These Eagles have lost three in a row. Let's take them first because in this scenario of the Cowboys making the playoffs, the most realistic one is Cowboys winning out. And we'll come back to that one. Can they win four straight games given their schedule and who it is? And will the Eagles lose at least two games? You need a two game pickup here.

B (34:11)

Boy. What if the Eagles did tie a game? I bet the Cowboys don't win that tiebreaker because of conference record, but I.

C (34:19)

Think it would go to division record and I think they would.

B (34:22)

Okay, yeah.

C (34:24)

Because I mean, if we're talking about.

B (34:26)

The division, right, because Eagles have lost to the Giants and then they're two.

C (34:31)

And two, you're three and one. If you went out, you're five and one. They can't do that.

B (34:35)

And yes. Okay, all right. So maybe it could work out with a tie, which doggone, they almost did on Monday night when they got beat in LA. That was almost a tie. Game.

C (34:48)

I would say 2, 1 and 1. You do get in. That'd be wild. That'd be. Yeah, Corby was talking about that. Should they, you know, should they have actually played for a tie against the Chargers and just screw the Cowboys that way? But I don't think, I don't think that's. No, I think the Cowboys division record will actually save them for once.

B (35:10)

Okay, so Philly, what has gone wrong and what will they do? Home against the Raiders at Washington, at Buffalo. Home against Washington. As we mentioned on our flagship station, the Ticket in Dallas.

B (35:28)

The NFL schedule makers thought, hey, watch this. Washington, Philly into the season. This is really going to be. This will decide the division. And I guess it will, but not between those two teams.

C (35:40)

Right.

B (35:42)

What do you expect from the Eagles? I expect them to probably lose just one more game just because of who they're playing. But if you have lost three in a row and lost them in the manner that Philly has and they've got problems.

B (35:58)

Man, I don't. I could, I really could see 2 and 2 and I don't think that's ridiculous.

C (36:05)

Where are you getting that second loss, is my question?

B (36:07)

One of the Washington games?

C (36:09)

Okay, so are we operating under the premise that Washington's going to do the craziest thing ever, which is put Jaden Daniels out there for a third?

B (36:18)

No. They're going to have Marcus Mariota who's going to score 16 points and somehow that's enough. And Dan Quinn is going to help out his old team and they'll win like 16, 13 and overtime or something like that.

C (36:29)

I mean, it's not impossible.

B (36:31)

I'm not saying it's going to happen. I said. Yeah, I'm. I'm saying there's a chance. Well, yeah, if you ask me what's happened today, I think. I think they go 3 and 1.

C (36:39)

Okay, so at Washington is December 20th. That's the 4 o' clock game up against like Ole Miss, Tulane. If people are curious how my brain works, the. The two road games are your two most likely. Although, remember the Kyler win in Philadelphia in 2023, that really screwed them up and I think set the table for the Cowboys. As I recall that, of course, the Cowboys gave immediately back by. By having the worst playoff game potentially in franchise history.

C (37:16)

Look, the Eagles, we've kind of been singing the same tune here forever. Their offense is brutal. Their offense is absolutely brutal to the tune of. They have now played five consecutive games without scoring more than 21 points. And, or, excuse me, the only game that they've scored more than 19. Is the Cowboys game where they had the 21 nothing lead and then they.

B (37:42)

Blew a 21 point lead?

C (37:43)

Yes. And if we go back to that 21 points, as you'll recall, the Cowboys went for it on fourth down at midfield. They also had the block punt that wasn't ruled a block punt. And so the Cowboys actually helped them score 21 points. In my estimation, it's just a bad, bad, bad offense that looks like it's bad because its quarterback has lost his way. And there appears to be a ton of tension between just about every member of that offensive buildup, including the coaching staff and his teammates and the quarterback to a point where I think you could actually argue that sitting him down is.

C (38:30)

Is probably one of the wilder debates going on because you can't. But you also could argue that he's been that bad. I, I don't know where to go with this anymore. I feel like at some point it's almost like the Kenneth Murray thing where you just shrug and say if they're going to keep putting him out there and expecting different results, that it's probably their own stupidity. And, and I don't know, I mean, I, I like if the only play you look at X's and O's wise is that final interception against the Chargers on Monday night. I think that one play tells you so much, George, because it is the normal RPO where.

C (39:16)

They can give the ball to Saquon. And if you look at that play and you look at the way the Chargers are defending screams give the ball to Saquon like there is. I know he's had his problems, but if you can just do simple number counting, you can see the Chargers don't have enough guys to defend a gift to Saquon there. And I think it's even first and 10, if I recall, like that interception he threw in the red zone is such fundamentally poor quarterback play that he pulls it and then it's a cover four. So you got the sinking corners on the outside and it's kind of a.

C (39:57)

Combo where the number two, the inside guy is going towards the pylon and the outside is Goddard kind of running a quick out. So they're kind of both going towards the sideline at different depths. And so you should be able to high, low, the corner is the point. And if he stays on Goddard, you've got the throw behind him and if he goes back, you got the throw in front to Goddard, you just take a profit and move on the second down. So he pulls the ball, Khalil Macks in his face and he throws it to a, to Johan Dotson at the pylon, but it's just not there. And it's such a dangerous throw on first down, especially at where you are in overtime. And I guess what I'm saying is he's not, he's like predetermining reads his, his teammates are, are kind of giving you the old WTF look on, on just a of this stuff. Like what are you doing here? What? You know, I don't know. I, I, I realize he just won a Super bowl. And as Corby on our station will point out to me, he was a Super bowl mvp. I cannot explain to you how bad their quarterback play has been since October and since their bye week. And so I don't know, man, can they win three games out of their next four? They are going to be heavily favored in three games of their next four, including this Sunday with the Raiders. But man, we saw them collapse in 23rd, 2023. They went 1 and 5 in their final six and then got boat raced in Tampa Bay in the playoff game. Yeah, they never pulled out of it. And I don't want to say they can never pull out of this because their defense is that good, but bro, it's so bad right now offensively that they just, they just look diseased. They really do. And the Cowboys lit them off the hook on Thursday night at Detroit a little bit. But obviously give Detroit credit, but man, if the Cowboys had one more win, I would tell you right now the Eagles season is over. But it's possible the Eagles have such a comfortable lead that they can, they can back in, you know, with, with mediocre play. I guess we won't talk too much.

B (42:15)

About Hard Knocks this week, but I will say this. I know it's edited for TV and you're seeing just part of the picture, you know, of what happens in the locker room or what happens on the sideline. And granted, the Cowboys have been winning some of the games they've showed and the Eagles have been on the other side of that. But look at Dak on the sideline versus Jalen Hurts. Dak is up and down the line. Hey, let's do this. He's talking even in a game they lost, like the Lions game, he's talking to Pickens, hey, let's do this. You know, and he's trying to encourage the team. And then I know his body language has never been great, but you look at here's his team in crisis and he's over there against the Chargers after he became the first human to ever commit a double turnover with an interception and then a fumble on one play. He's over there just kind of sitting by his self saying, that's my bad. I mean, she's give us, I don't know, something in it. And maybe that's what that team's waiting for from him of, you know, hey, to stand up. And it's just a gesture, but it's. I think at this point it does mean something for a team that's losing altitude by the week.

C (43:32)

The body language is incredibly bad right now. It's just, I don't, I don't. I mean, obviously guys like you and I are sickos enough that we sort of enjoy watching teams that we don't like, go through this. So. So I'm not going to try to plead innocence there, but I, I don't know how. I mean, look, the variance of Eagle seasons is just incredible. Like, the script writers are just top notch that they either win a Super bowl or collapse like this in consecutive. I mean, they, they almost won the 22 Super Bowl. Almost. They really did. I was relieved when they didn't. And then in 23 they imploded with that one and six finish. And then in 24, they do win the super bowl and absolutely hammer the Chiefs. And now in 25, it seems like it's happening again. Like, could you imagine following this team? It would make you crazy. Like that's any fan base, let alone.

B (44:40)

The Philly fan base. And they just, you know, they, they live and die with every play.

C (44:44)

Yeah, they definitely can't handle it. But at the same time, this would be enough to institutionalize just about any football fan because you should not be this good and this bad at the same time.

B (44:57)

No, you shouldn't. So that's the Eagles. And then real quick, can the Cowboys win four straight with two of those teams being a Vikings team? It's hard to define as we're about to try to figure out who they are. Chargers and then Washington and New York.

C (45:15)

Yes. The Chargers game should make you extremely nervous. And I can't tell you how pins and needles it would be to get to Week 18 at New York and knowing that they've got nothing to lose and a little bit of crazy themselves. Like, let's go ruin the Cowboys season. Like it would be, it would be top notch theater to see it come down to Week 18 against Mike Kafka, Jackson Dart and the New York Giants. But I would not consider that a layup by any stretch of the imagination.

B (45:54)

Not at all. So they've been close a lot of times this year.

C (45:58)

I don't. I don't hate a 4. No. I feel way more comfortable with 3 and 1, but that's not going to get you there.

B (46:05)

No.

C (46:05)

And. And, you know, it might. You might need the Eagles to accommodate you, and that might require the commanders doing one of the dumbest things ever, which is continue to start Jaden Daniels.

B (46:18)

They need to shut him down.

C (46:20)

Boy, do they ever need to shut him down. But if they do, they're really going to hurt the Cowboys. Yeah. So I don't know.

B (46:27)

Interesting.

C (46:28)

Dan Quinn feels obligated to risk his entire coaching career to help the Cowboys.

B (46:34)

All right, well, let's talk about one of Bob's other favorite teams, the Minnesota Vikings. That's who's next for the Cowboys. And we'll do that next on the the podcast Cowboys Edition.

A (46:50)

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C (47:20)

Close your eyes. Exhale.

A (47:22)

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Of whatever you're carrying today.

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B (47:50)

Okay. The Cowboys back home, they are 6, 6 and 1 after that loss to the Lions. And here come the Minnesota Vikings at 5 and 8. Or as Bob likes to call them.

C (48:02)

Come on, George.

B (48:03)

Oh, you can't.

C (48:04)

We can't say I might have grown up with the Vikings. Yes.

B (48:07)

No, I can say it.

C (48:09)

I can say it. I didn't want everyone's battery to go.

B (48:13)

Dead just because the Vikings, who are always an interesting study. In fact, the last time these two teams played, 2022, November 20th, I was actually there, Bob. I did a flyaway trip with the guy named Dave Johnson. He's on The Dallas Stars board. And he put this trip together for the Dallas Stars Foundation. And I found myself on this trip. It was awesome. It was me, the goose. And like 16 Vikings fans, the goose. The goose was on Rick Gosselin, longtime NFL writer and goose. And I had a lot of good football talk there and back. And as well as Dave Johnson because he's a huge Vikings fan. And the Cowboys whooped them that day, 40 to 3. That's the last time these two teams played. And this is a Vikings team that has a rookie quarterback who missed a lot of time again in JJ McCarthy. And they are now the first team since the 92 Broncos to get shut out one week and then shut somebody else out the next week, which is what they did with their win last week. So what is this Vikings team all about, Bob?

C (49:29)

Well, first of all, I want to go back to 2022 real fast and just say that my lasting memory from that game is the best example I can think of, of a quarterback kind of tapping out because Kirk Cousins had been so beat up by the Cowboys pass rush and in particular Micah Parsons, that I think that was the ultimate quarterback business decision to let's go ahead and end this one. Why don't Nick Mullins take us home?

B (50:04)

I do remember him hitting the deck one time with Parsons chasing him and he just kind of surrendered.

C (50:10)

Yeah, like he did. Like he's running around the backfield and he just kind of. Does the quarterback give up slide? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I'm not here to do this. I, I've made a lot of money, my family loves me. I'd like to enjoy retirement someday. So that, that memory from a very unlikely five touchdown win from the Cowboys in Minnesota, that doesn't happen super often, but you know, I mean, look, it's a Brian Flores defense. And so anytime you play a Brian Flores defense, you should prepare for a lot of blitzing, a lot of crazy. You know, he's in many ways, he is one of the true defensive geniuses we have in this league right now and he deserves a lot of credit because those Vikings defenses do not play around. And there are many times, especially at their place, where they can totally, totally reduce you to something that is not particularly what you had in mind. They have a fantastic pass defense. They do get to the quarterback plenty. It's not peak Vikings defense because that was probably for me, 2016-2019 kind of the end of Zimmer, but this is, this is still a really, really good defense. Again, mostly at home, mostly in their loud Loud stadium, so. So I think you should have an advantage there. And of course, on offense, you know, it's a lot more messy for the Vikings right now because they are demonstrating to us that inexperienced young quarterbacks kind of have no idea in this league. And over the course of the season, they've had their offensive line beat up. They got a lot of guys playing hurt. And J.J. mcCarthy is not good and he doesn't know what he's looking at. And so will he be good someday? Probably. I mean, we came full circle on Sam and Baker Mayfield, but. But for now, it is one of those guys that makes you think, shouldn't we use the spring league to help give some of these young guys who need experience, you know, just a chance to go start 10 games in Birmingham or wherever they are. Because. Because he just. Even at Michigan, I want to say in their national championship winning game against Washington a couple years ago, I want to say he had 10 completions in a national championship game and he just hasn't played enough football. He's a different version of Trey Lance now. Does he have a big arm? Yes. Does he have tools? Sure. He just doesn't know what he's looking at. So maybe, maybe playing Matt Eberfluss will be a lot of fun for him because that won't be nearly as dialed up as, say, Seattle's defense, you know, would be. Although I guess that was Brosmer, wasn't it? But, you know, McCarthy's had some rough goes well at Green Bay A couple weeks ago he looked ridiculous and I would imagine he's very happy not to deal with that again. And maybe they'll have some ideas if they can.

C (53:33)

Steal some of the Lions ideas, but I just. I just don't know if McCarthy can. Can handle that.

B (53:37)

You mentioned the Vikings defense. They're third in red zone defense. They are ninth and third down defense, and they're really good against the past. They're fourth and yardage allowed. That's. That can be. That can be skewed a little bit. But the fact that they're top 10 or top 15 in most defensive categories I think is impressive, including 12th in points, because they've been dealing with a. A malfunctioning offense and they've still put up those numbers. I. Yeah, I think they're legit on defense.

C (54:11)

Yeah, there's no doubt. And you know, they are number one in the league in blitz rate, so. So if you want to know.

C (54:19)

What'S important and what we've seen as a problem is that Javante Williams as the season has gone on, has had more and more trouble picking up blitzes or at least winning those situations. Now, not everybody's Nicobi Dean, but we are seeing teams challenge him more and more right up the gut to pick up those blitzers. And the Vikings blitz at 49%, guys. And so when you talk about a team that is willing to bring it in big, big numbers, 49% blitz rate is absolutely sick. And they don't even think about it. That's what they do and they believe they can get to before you can get the ball out. So I would imagine we should expect to see plenty of, of slants and comebacks that allow, you know, the, the Pickens and Lamb duo to break one tackle and be off to the races. Because obviously if you're bringing six or even seven, you don't have enough guys back there to, to corral a George Pickens in the open field. So that's what you'll be looking for. Of course, they'll be setting traps on the slants like the Lions tried. So, you know, the cat and mouse game will be interesting when the Cowboys have the ball for sure. But this is, this is a game where at home, coming off that Lions defeat and coming off a 10 day break, I kind of think the Cowboys get right here on Sunday night.

B (55:55)

Yeah, I think they have a chance to. Minnesota hasn't been great against the run defensively and maybe that's where Javante has his advantage in running the ball on them.

C (56:05)

Let's talk about that real fast, George, because that's a stat I found this week when I was going through things because the weekly success rate numbers of the run game is something that's interesting to me. And over the course of the season, the Cowboys have been okay running the football, but if you look at it chronologically, they were third in the NFL through five weeks. So through the jets game, I guess they were third in the NFL in success rate. Which means, of course, just like field goal percentage, every time you run a run play or a pass play, we know if it's a success or not based on how many yards you gain and the formula. I feel like we said this a couple times this season, but the formula is 40% of the yards you need on first down, 50% of the yards you need on second down, 100% of the yards you need on third and fourth down. So when you run the ball, the Cowboys were top three in the entire league after five weeks. And if you draw the line there and then say starting week six which was at Carolina. Until now. The Cowboys are 30th in success rate running the football. So three third to 30th is drastic. And if you start to say, well, what are the reasons for that? The theories are, you know, teams are now sitting on your tendencies. Javante Williams is wearing down, the offensive line is wearing down. Tyler Guyton being out has actually hurt your run game, which I actually believe to some extent. But whatever the reason is, the Cowboys running game over the last two months has been reliant on those really big gains of Malik Davis, Kevante Turpin, a few from Javante, even a jet sweep to CD Lamb. You are sort of propping up everything on a few explosive runs or you're not getting anywhere on the ground and which is putting more pressure on every other part of your offense. So something to think about is what's happened since the jets game to the Cowboys running game and does that inform our off season plan a little bit? On do I need to consider running back one of my top priorities? Again?

B (58:35)

Interesting. Yeah. And I love John. Just to the eyeball it does seem like Doc on the Cowboys aren't running the ball as well as they did earlier in the season and I think that's interesting. Those numbers correlate to that and kind of tell the story. Yeah. What can they do against Minnesota? Can they crank that back up again? Does Malik Davis continue to get carries? Do we ever see Jaden Blue again this year?

C (59:02)

It's rough, man.

B (59:03)

I think they could use his speed, but yeah, I just, I don't think he's ready for this yet. Or at least hasn't been up until this point. And we shall see. Four games left for the Cowboys. Can the Eagles get off the mat? They've been knocked down. Okay. What happens if they get beat by the Raiders? Bob.

C (59:23)

Once I stop laughing because losing at home to the Raiders would be absolutely rock bottom, then it is fully game on.

B (59:35)

Because how sky high are the Cowboys at that point as they're playing on Sunday night and they know that that's happened.

C (59:41)

They would win by 30 on Sunday night and then it is game on with three weeks to go and the Eagles would be down to their final strike and they still have to go to Buffalo and they still have to go to Washington. So yeah, a Raiders game would substantially change the math in the race. So maybe find your best Raiders gear, kids and put it on for the noon start in Philly on Sunday.

B (60:12)

Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen. I think Philly's probably going to go 2 and 2 or 3 and 1 and. But the problem is, I think the Cowboys are probably going to go three and one or maybe even two and two.

C (60:25)

Okay.

B (60:26)

Well, I mean, if, you know, we've. We've had 13 games as an example, and I get back to where we started. There are minus 8 in turnover margin. There's a reason for that. The defense is not forcing enough of them. And then when you have a game where you turn it over two or three times, that stands out because you're not getting them on the other side.

C (60:47)

Well, you're looking to a Raiders team that is 1 and 11 in their last 12, so just want to throw that.

B (60:54)

He's got that one, though. But they beat the Patriots, Bob. Well, that was a week one and then started. They beat the Patriots.

C (61:03)

Boy, the Raiders. Poor Raiders. Are we. Are we ready to say poor Raiders?

B (61:09)

Yeah, I think we should always have some empathy for other NFL f because we know how tough it is. I mean, it hasn't been great around here for 30 years, Bob.

C (61:18)

Yeah, but one in 11, you haven't dealt with that. No, it's been a while there.

B (61:22)

No. Early aughts was pretty close to that. The three straight years of 3 and 13. But no, it hasn't been.

C (61:29)

Imagine having season tickets to the Raiders. Like, you would just. He would just be dreading Sunday arriving. You'd have to go watch that garbage again.

B (61:39)

And it seems like every game's like a neutral site game, too. So many fans come in. It's a fun destination. Let's go to Vegas and watch our team take it to the Raiders.

C (61:49)

Oh, just. Just brutal. And every year it feels like they've got a new coach and we're going to try again. And then at the end of the year, it's like, well, that didn't work. Like, are you bringing Pete Carroll back again?

B (62:02)

Oh, man. Well, it's the problems we try to solve.

C (62:07)

Luckily, this isn't a Raiders podcast.

B (62:09)

Oh, my gosh. Could you imagine?

C (62:10)

Canceled? Yeah.

B (62:11)

You know, I think Brent Musburger used to do one, or maybe still does. He was doing the Raiders for a while.

C (62:16)

Bless his heart. Bless his heart, indeed.

B (62:19)

All right, Bob. Well, that was fun. We'll see what happens this week with Cowboys and Vikings and Raiders and Eagles. And then I'll tell you what, let's reconvene and do this again next week. What do you say?

C (62:31)

I can't wait. We will be here. Football Friends.

B (62:35)

Yes. On the Musers, the podcast Football Friends, it's George Dunham. It's Bob Sturm and our producer, Peter Welton, who has to put up with us every single week. We'll talk to you next week right here.

C (62:50)

Yeah.

B (62:51)

Yeah.

C (62:55)

The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S. soccer Podcast.

B (62:59)

This is the show where we bring you in depth interviews with U.S. soccer stars.

C (63:02)

This time, Sam Coffey, the World cup is in two years. Is it time yet? Like, can we get back in into camp?

B (63:09)

TIM ream. We're going to continue to show other countries. We're not going to be pushed around. And Jedi Robinson Every time you come back and you put the jersey on, it means more and more each side on. So we'll be back here with all the best stories. The U.S. soccer Podcast. We've got a lot to talk about.

C (63:22)

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