Cowboys Weekly - Post Super Bowl Dissection

Summary

The Musers The Podcast: Cowboys Weekly – Post Super Bowl Dissection

Date: February 12, 2026
Hosts: George Dunham & Bob Sturm (with references to Gordon Keith)
Episode Focus: A postseason breakdown for Cowboys fans—reacting to the Seahawks’ Super Bowl win, what it means for Dallas, and exploring the emotional landscape of Cowboys’ successes, failures, and legends.

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Overview of Episode Theme

The Musers reconvene for their signature combination of wit, nostalgia, and sharp football analysis in the first week after the NFL season closes. Against the backdrop of Seattle’s Super Bowl victory, George and Bob dissect the implications for the Dallas Cowboys, the organization's three-decade title drought, and the complexities surrounding star players, organizational culture, and fandom. The conversation pivots from hard football numbers to reflections on local high school legends, Cowboys history, and the enduring optimism (and frustration) of Cowboys fandom.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The NFL Offseason Begins

• [00:34]–[02:11]
  • The hosts discuss the abrupt void that follows the Super Bowl, noting there are “31 Sundays” until football returns.
  • George muses about NFL’s year-long news cycle, pointing out that only from June to mid-July is there real downtime, joking, “you’re going to have to kid yourself that other things can take the place of the NFL in your hearts.”
  • Both hosts set the stage for an offseason of speculation—“now it’s on to the other stuff.”

2. Seattle Seahawks: The New Champions & Implications for the Cowboys

• [02:11]–[07:42]
  • Seattle’s 29–13 Super Bowl win over the Patriots gives them a second title in four SB appearances since the Cowboys last made one.
  • George lists the 11 NFL teams since 1995 who have won two Super Bowls—none are Dallas.
    • “Eleven different teams have not only won a Super Bowl, but... they’ve won two.” [04:44]
  • Discussion on Seattle’s roster construction: young, cap space flexibility, not loaded with mega-stars.
  • Bob praises Seattle’s youth—only nine players over 30—and potential for a sustained run.

3. DFW Talent Pipeline & "What Ifs" of High School Football

• [07:42]–[12:38]
  • The hosts name-drop DFW legends now in the NFL: Jackson Smith-Njigba, Christian Gonzalez, and reminisce about seeing future stars as high school athletes.
  • Playful challenge for George to become “Mr. High School”—to scout the next Miles Garrett or Kyler Murray:
    • “Here’s my dream... You go to all the high school games... football and basketball and maybe baseball. I want you to be Mr. High School.” – George [08:17]
  • Nostalgia for the surreal talent in Texas with personal anecdotes about watching prospects and regret at missing some legendary prep performances.

4. Super Bowl Analysis: Seattle’s Defensive Masterclass

• [12:41]–[18:13]
  • Praises for Seattle DC Mike Macdonald, with Aidan Durde (ex-Cowboys assistant) as an up-and-comer.
  • Seattle didn’t have a single player over 7 sacks, but collectively overwhelmed the Patriots with creative pressures and blitzes:
    • “They don’t have a single guy with more than seven sacks... but it also makes it impossible to prepare for you.” – George [13:23]
  • The hosts explain that Seattle’s win was less about individual dominance and more about confusion and unpredictability in scheme.
  • Drake May “looked like a second-year quarterback in the Super Bowl with a bad shoulder.” – George [17:06]

5. DeMarcus Lawrence’s Exit and the Cowboys’ Culture Problem

• [18:13]–[27:44]
  • Audio is played from Lawrence’s departure: “I know for sure I’m not going to win a Super Bowl there.” [19:03]
  • The hosts dissect this moment, its resonance for Cowboys fans, and the indictment of the Jones family’s stewardship:
    • “I hope more than anything it’s rattling around in the Jones family’s head. I hope they’re affected by it.” – George [20:06]
    • “They always seem stubbornly married to the success they had in the early 90s as proof of concept that they have done nothing wrong at any point...” – George [21:28]
  • Exploration of how Dallas wastes careers—“all our heroes, Demarcus Ware to DeMarcus Lawrence, have had to go elsewhere to finally win big.”
  • Conversation on organizational inertia, culture, and the lost potential of homegrown stars.

6. Roster Construction: Paying Stars vs. Building Depth

• [30:00]–[45:56]
  • Cowboys’ off-season priorities: Defensive needs, WR George Pickens’ contract, cap management, running back decisions.
  • Tension between paying top-tier skill talent (Dak, CeeDee, Pickens) vs. a “Seahawks model” of 15 good players, not five superstars.
  • Salary numbers cited for current top WRs; debate if Pickens should get tagged, traded, or extended long-term amid risk of personality challenges.
  • “Are you crazy for making your three top paid players quarterback, wide receiver, wide receiver?” – George [40:00]
  • On Pickens: “This is not your prototypical NFL player. That’s where his personality, I think, comes into play.” – Bob [43:07]
  • On trading star WR for an edge rusher: “If I’m going to pay an edge guy 35.5, then it’s Micah Parsons.” – George [48:21]

7. Cowboys’ Defensive Prospects & Free Agency Targeting

• [50:02]–[52:50]
  • Draft and FA plans: Use two first-round picks on defense, pursue “value” players like Philadelphia LB Nakobe Dean or S Reed Blankenship due to new DC Christian Parker’s Philly ties.
  • Cautious optimism about plugging holes affordably rather than chasing whales.

8. The Enduring Legacy of Cowboys Legends: Staubach & The Arc of Fandom

• [53:58]–[67:53]
  • Emotional nostalgia as hosts discuss older Cowboys icons—Roger Staubach, the “Dirty Dozen” draft.
  • Contemplate the fading public memory of Staubach:
    • “Do you realize... people listening to us right now... it may be leaving—everybody gets forgotten in history at a certain point... a literal superhero in this city is probably well past anybody under 50 knowing what made him special.” – George [61:36]
  • Advocacy for preserving history—“If you’re a Cowboys fan... watch 'A Football Life: Roger Staubach.'”
  • Bob credits Staubach for his innate optimism—“Roger made me think anything was possible.” [68:46]
  • Proposal for a watch-along episode featuring the Staubach documentary and perhaps an interview with Roger himself.
  • Big-picture reflection on how football fandom gets shaped by legends and moments.

9. Tribute to Superfan Carolyn Price

• [70:56]–[73:22]
  • A heartfelt nod to the late Carolyn Price, described as “maybe the biggest Cowboy fan of all time,” revered for her unwavering support through thick and thin.
    • “Any guy who ever put on a Cowboys uniform knew who she was and they would recognize her and appreciate her... Boy, did she love her Cowboys.” – George [72:59]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 03:03 | “Six NFC teams have won two Super Bowls... Denver, Ravens, Steelers, Chiefs, Patriots for the AFC. Eleven different teams have not only won a Super Bowl, but... they’ve won two.” | George | | 08:17 | “Here’s my dream... You go to all the high school games... football and basketball and maybe baseball. I want you to be Mr. High School.” | George | | 19:03 | “I know for sure I’m not going to win a Super Bowl there.” | DeMarcus Lawrence (clip) | | 20:06 | “I hope more than anything it’s rattling around in the Jones family’s head. I hope they’re affected by it.” | George | | 21:28 | “They always seem stubbornly married to the success they had in the early 90s as proof of concept that they have done nothing wrong at any point...” | George | | 40:00 | “Are you crazy for making your three top paid players quarterback, wide receiver, wide receiver?” | George | | 68:46 | “Roger made me think anything was possible.” | Bob | | 72:59 | “Boy, did she love her Cowboys. Boy, was she faithful... these are my babies.” | George | | 61:36 | “Do you realize... a literal superhero in this city is... well past anybody under 50 knowing what made him special.” | George |

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Segment Timestamps

• 00:34–02:11 — Entering the football void & NFL off-season rhythms
• 02:11–07:42 — Seahawks’ win contextualized; Cowboys’ isolation from elite
• 07:42–12:38 — DFW’s high school talent and nostalgia for scouting legends
• 12:41–18:13 — Seahawks’ defensive performance; coaching kudos
• 18:13–27:44 — DeMarcus Lawrence’s blunt exit and critique; Cowboys’ cultural reckoning
• 30:00–47:00 — Offseason priorities, roster construction, WR contract talk
• 50:02–52:50 — Defensive upgrades, cheap FA targets, and LB options
• 53:58–67:53 — Honoring Cowboys legends—how the legacy persists/fades
• 70:56–73:22 — Remembering superfan Carolyn Price

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Closing Tone

The episode ends with mutual affirmation of the depth and heart of their conversations. As always, The Musers shade their measured criticism and wistful nostalgia with hope: ever the optimists, battered but unbowed, seeking not just wins, but meaning from Cowboys football—their “shot of absurdity, insight, and unforgettable banter” for fans old and new.

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For New Listeners:

This episode balances hard football analysis with warmth, humor, and a reverence for both current events and the legends who shaped decades of Cowboys culture. Even if you missed the game—or the last 30 seasons—The Musers’ chemistry and storytelling will catch you up and pull you into “football friendship” and DFW sports tradition.

Transcript

[George]

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[Bob]

Well, here we are, a couple of football friends. It's the Musers, the podcast Cowboys edition at the end of the NFL season. It's George and Bob, your two football friends and we all get excited about the Super Bowl. Hey, it's the big game and everything. And then when it's over, Bob, it's really over. Now we're in the off season.

[George]

We, we have entered the off season. 31 Sundays, I think separate us from future Sunday football. So start the countdown. But you're going to have to figure out, I can't remember if it's 30 or 31 Sundays where you're going to have to kid yourself that other things can take the place of the National Football League in your hearts. I know it on that beautiful day. So yeah, I mean, look, it's, we're, we're used to this, George. We can't play year round football. We've tried. And so we have to put the little tiny football teams into their little tiny beds and let them rest up for the new season. But because Roger Goodell and Pete Roselle and all these forefathers and builders of our sport understood the year long news cycle and it never actually fully stops except for roughly June 1 to July 15 or so, they give us about six weeks to reacquaint ourselves with the, the outdoors and grass and things of that nature. But yeah, now, now it's onto the other stuff.

[Bob]

The other stuff as the Seattle Seahawks are the champions of the National Football League 29 to 13 over the Patriots. And there's a lot of things that relate to the Cowboys here. We're, we're going to hear from a former Cowboy here in just a moment who we talked a lot about last week and DeMarcus Lawrence. And with Seattle winning, that's now their second Super bowl title and they've been to four since the last time the Cowboys went 30 years ago. And now Bob, that list of teams that has gone to not one but two Super Bowls between when the last time the Cowboys went Super Bowl 30 and now is, is pretty darn long.

[George]

Yes. So, so let's do this let's start in the NFC and let's not even do going to the Super Bowl. Let's go to winning Super Bowl. So these teams since the 1995 season have won multiple Super Bowls. There's only been 30, so the maximum number would be 15 teams could win two Super Bowls. I'm very good at math. So in the nfc, Seattle is one. The New York Giants is another. The Philadelphia Eagles is another. The Los Angeles Rams, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Green Bay Packers. Six NFC teams have won two Super Bowls. I don't believe any of them have three. So six NFC teams. Now to the AFC we go. Denver has two. The Ravens have two. The Steelers have two during that span. And then we have the Kansas City Chiefs with three and the New England Patriots with six. So I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 AFC teams, 6 NFC teams. That means since those 30 years when you were in Tempe, Arizona. Because I guarantee you were in Tempe.

[Bob]

Oh, yeah.

[George]

For. For Sun Devil stadiums. Last and only Super Bowl.

[Bob]

Oh, yeah.

[George]

We have six nfc, five afc. Eleven different teams have not only won a Super bowl, but George, they've won two.

[Bob]

Wow.

[George]

To prove it wasn't a fluke, they went back and did it again, often with a completely different roster and coach staff and literally everything, which is pretty much Seattle story. I know their GM is the same in John Schneider, I believe, but I think that's it.

[Bob]

Yeah.

[George]

It's not even the same owner. It's Paul Allen passed away and Jody Allen took the trophy. Because of course, here in America, we have to reward the billionaire to be the first to hold the trophy. And then, of course, her thanks to big brother buying the Seahawks and then passing away is to immediately put the champion Seahawks on the market and sell it.

[Bob]

Yeah. That's a bizarre twist to it.

[George]

Yes.

[Bob]

Sam Darnold finishes off his amazing story that we talked about last week. I was. I was happy for him. Seattle going forward, man, they got a young team. They only have, I believe it's nine players over the age of 30. Their oldest player is 35. They have some big free agents like Kenneth Walker the third.

[George]

Yes.

[Bob]

That they've got to get done. They've got a few on defense, but you could see a path because they're not paying Sam Darnold 60 million a year that they can get these other free agents done, the ones they want. And they've got good collection of young players who they've drafted here in the last three or four years. I'm not saying this is a mini Dynasty. Because those are so hard to come by these days. But by the way they've been built, you're going to be putting up with Seattle at least for the next few years.

[George]

Yeah, there's no doubt Seattle is a very balanced team, and that's why you should probably fear what they're capable of moving forward now, the balance to that as a team with arguably no superstars besides Smith. And Jigba, who's just breaking out in. In the third year of his career. And he's. He's a baby, too. He. If you go back and look at his Ohio State file, he only really played one season there. His. His first and third year at Ohio State. He was kind of buried his first year at Ohio State University. You would not believe the wide receiver depth chart. That was the COVID year 2020. And I mean, they had. Every wide receiver in the NFL was playing on Ohio State's offense back then. It was absolutely staggering. I'm trying to remember the whole group, but I believe Marvin Harrison was still there. A Mecca. Buca was actually part of that mix. And then all the guys in his class, including Chris Olave, Smith and Jigba. And I'm trying to think there's one more major one that was in front of them, and I can't think of that right now, and my mind's going blank.

[Bob]

But anyway, I do remember when in Jigba went to Ohio State, Garrett Wilson.

[George]

Garrett.

[Bob]

Oh, there you go. Garrett Wilson. Yeah, that was. And it seems like both Wilson and Jigba were being courted by Texas at the time, and they both ended up going up. There may have been separate years, but there's a Texas tie in there. That's. I remember him at Rockwall and Jigba, and he was just outrageous.

[George]

Would you watch that? Did you go see him?

[Bob]

No, I just remember him being a player, talked about and his highlights, you.

[George]

Know, because here's my dream. My dream, George, is that you go to all the high school games. All of them. And I don't mean just football. Football and basketball and maybe baseball. I want you to be Mr. High School.

[Bob]

So I'm going. I'm helicoptering around to all of these stadiums and watching these games or watching them on tape.

[George]

Yes.

[Bob]

Okay.

[George]

And then. And then at a certain point of the season when you really locked in on this is the generational talent I need to take Bob to see, then you come pick me up and we go to one game so that I can say I saw him play in high school.

[Bob]

Okay.

[George]

And then every Year we do it and so you pick a basketball player. Maybe it's. Isn't Marcus Spears kid like the best player in the country?

[Bob]

That's what I hear.

[George]

Yeah, I think he plays up in Addison or something. But. But this, this area is so ridiculously packed with unbelievable future pro stars, both in basketball, baseball and football. Not as much hockey, although a shout, shout out to our girl from Coppell who's on the US Women's Olympic hockey team this week. She scored yesterday against the Swiss.

[Bob]

How about that?

[George]

Yeah, I mean, Coppell, we just. I've never seen Flower Mound turn out a hockey superstar, but, but anyway, yeah, that would be my dream because I'm watching the super bowl and I'm watching Jackson Smith and Jigba up against Christian Gonzalez and they're both DFW guys. The Colony both, both left DFW and Texas in general with all these football factories that they opted out to Ohio State and Oregon and now they're meeting in the NFL. And you could argue, I don't know how successful you would be, but it's not crazy to say Smith and Jigba is the best wide receiver in the league and Gonzalez is the best corner in the league right now. And they're both DFW guys that were right under our nose forever. I just don't have the hard drive space to do it. So I'm turning that over to you.

[Bob]

Okay, well, that's fine. My son is back in the high school game now he's going to from college back to high school. And I will, I will be attending some games and I already know of maybe a guy that's on the radar. I tell you what, I would have told you a couple of years ago when my son was on the coaching staff at Austin Westlake and they won the state championship. I would have told you, come watch this guy, Bob. He's the best high school quarterback I've ever seen. Not that I've seen every high school quarterback in the history of Texas even.

[George]

Yeah.

[Bob]

But Cade Club Nick is the best high school quarterback I've ever seen.

[George]

Okay. And then I could say I saw Kate Clubnik when he was a lad. I, I honestly have regrets. Like, I'm half joking here. Although it would be fun for you to have to go through 500 games and like, you know, 300 teams or whatever it is to, to, to be on the search every year. But I can't imagine how cool it would be to watch Miles garrett in like 11th grade just destroy everybody in his path.

[Bob]

Isn't he the one where we used to see the old footage and it was like his JV team or something, and he was 6, 5 and they were 5 11.

[George]

Yeah. And like a poor offensive tackle from whatever high school is trying to block Miles Garrett. And, you know, you just, you just imagine the mismatches that the football field offers. And again, Texas Metroplex High school football, even the bad teams could probably curb stomp my Wisconsin high schools. So the level of play, even for the bad teams is still probably very high. But there are guys that come along, like Adrian Peterson or Miles Garrett, that are worldwide football legends. You know, they're just, they're just. But, but they all, they all are 14 at some point and, and, you know, even my, my Kyler Murray stories and just all the things that, that dazzle us about this football world. They were all in fourth grade at some point, George, and, and if you would just take on that responsibility to, to make sure that I see Larry Johnson next time he's playing.

[Bob]

Okay.

[George]

High school basketball in Dallas, I would really appreciate that.

[Bob]

I'm writing that down. High school scouting. That's what charge of next year on the show.

[George]

Get you a hat or whatever.

[Bob]

Scout. Okay, a couple of things from the Super Bowl. Seattle's defense, just awesome. As you mentioned, they don't have a lot of stars, but I love the way they play collectively as a defensive unit, which I think speaks a lot about Mike McDonald and the culture that he has established there. And how much credit should we give Aiden Dirty, who is the defensive coordinator there, former Cowboys defensive assistant, I bet. I bet his name is all over the place next year as a potential head coach.

[George]

Yeah, I would think so. I mean, when we talk about building a dominant, dominant defense, we obviously spend a lot of time looking for guys like Miles Garrett or guys like Micah Parsons. And so, you know, what you would have to say about the, the 2025 Seahawks is that it doesn't necessarily appear, at least you know, from, from a distance, that they've got any. Well, they don't have. Okay, here you go. They don't have a single guy with more than seven sacks. So. So they get to the quarterback. They had Drake May running for his Life, but in 2025, Texas Longhorn, Byron Murphy, Leonard Williams and Ochina Nawasu, the former charger, all had seven sacks, and then DeMarcus Lawrence had six. And then it drops down to a number of other guys at 2 and 3. And so it's, it's obviously way more difficult to get to 50 sacks. Without ever having an 8 sack guy. I mean think about how tough that is. But it also makes it impossible to defend you be or to prepare for you. I should say offenses don't necessarily defend against defenses, but they have to prepare for them and they have to protect and they have to give their quarterback a chance. And, and I think Drake May had a lousy game, but he was under duress. And what was interesting was the, the takeaway from a lot of people was that the New England offensive line just got overwhelmed. And I think if you go back and watch the tape and you would probably have to be a psycho to really break down that tape of a game you didn't totally care about. But I think you would find that for the most part the, each offensive lineman did okay. And I know everybody's talking about Matt Campbell, the left tackle and he did not, you know, cover himself in glory after a really good rookie year. But the point is he didn't lose 10 times. No, he, he lost four times and that's not great. But it's also not incredibly uncommon. The point is Seattle's scheme and the varied way they use their guys was able to generate free runners and confusion. And so even when they bring four, George, you don't know which four. And so the left side of your line is anticipating a blitz. The right side thinks, nah, we're fine. And in the McDonald's scheme, especially on that blitz, they ran two different times. And the first time they got a sack from the safety or the corner, Devin Witherspoon, the slot corner.

[Bob]

Okay.

[George]

And then the second time Witherspoon got there and generated that essentially will be scored a pick six. But I think that was probably a strip sack and, and a touchdown. So, so two blitzes that were exactly the same and they both got to Drake May, they got sacks both times and they got the ball loose and a defensive touchdown. And so that's not really, that's not really an offensive line failure. Except for everybody knowing their job, everybody, you know, covering every gap and then the quarterback having the common sense or at least the awareness and the experience to see I don't have anybody to account for the slot corner and he seems to be sneaking this way and what am I going to do? Look, there's nothing more mentally taxing than playing quarterback in the NFL. So I'm not saying Drake May is a big failure. Heck, he almost won the mvp. But he did look like a second year quarterback in the super bowl with a bad shoulder.

[Bob]

I don't think he's 100% and no.

[George]

I think probably not. And you know, he hasn't been great in these entire playoffs, to be honest. And, and, and you could argue the Patriots reach their ceiling and then some. And, and they just finally played a heavyweight on even terms and the heavyweight fed him to the Lions. It was, it wasn't a fair fight. The, the Seahawks were clearly better, especially on defense. And, and I just, I thought it was a master class from that Seahawks defense. So much so that the Seahawks offense could have easily scored 40 and instead kind of in my mind, adjusted to a pretty conservative game plan once they realized that we can just kick field goals and beat these guys because they're not, they're not going to drive third and long.

[Bob]

Let's run it and kick field goal. Let's not worry about picking up, take the points today.

[George]

We're not, we're not playing Matthew Stafford and Pukinakua and Devonte Adams. We're playing a team that can't get out of its own way right now.

[Bob]

They can't get across half Midfield. You mentioned DeMarcus Lawrence. We talked a lot about him last, last week, the 11 year cowboy who went and signed with Seattle and on his way out of town as he went to Seattle, he said these words when he landed as a Seahawk during free agency last March. And I went back and listened to this because we've been, you know, paraphrasing what he said, but let's just hear it one more time. What he had to say when he left Dallas because they didn't offer him and went to Seattle.

[George]

You know, Dallas is my home. I made my home there. You know, my family lives there.

[Bob]

You know, I'm forever going to be there. But, you know, I know for sure.

[George]

I'm not going to win a Super bowl there.

[Bob]

So. Yeah, I forgot he worded it that way. Bob, I know for sure I'm never going to win a Super bowl there. It's up. In some ways it's not up for interpretation because he's pretty blunt. Yeah, they can't. They're never going to win. I guess you could throw in, I'm getting late in my career. I want to go somewhere where I think I have a better chance, but I forgot he worded it that way. I know, I know I never am going to win a Super bowl there. I'm really happy for DeMarcus Lawrence. I have no ill will towards him at all. And I think some of that was aimed at the guy who was playing on the other side of him and Micah Parsons, who immediately came back and told him that that was a bunch of clown ass. And then, as we all know, Micah gets traded to Green Bay. But, man, that quote has been rattling around in my head for a couple of days.

[George]

Well, I hope more than anything it's rattling around in the Jones family's head. I hope they're affected by it. I really do. Because the major theme of you and I doing this podcast and kind of keeping the interest levels of cowboy fans that want to listen to it at some sort of a level of optimism is a belief that somewhere along the line, Jerry Jones specifically. But now I kind of join him at the hip. Jerry and Stephen as the Jones boys. And I always think to myself, there has to be a time at some point where they get sick and tired of being sick and tired. And I've probably said that exact quote on this exact podcast at some point in the past. And what's quite alarming about it is I know I'm kind of the new guy at the ticket in some respects still, but I've been here 28 cowboy seasons, and so I'm getting older. George. I don't know if you can tell that from the white beard, but, but I'm. I'm slowing down a little bit. I'm not quite as quick twitch as I once was.

[Bob]

You were definitely a quick twitch back in the day.

[George]

Bob can no longer take off from the free throw line.

[Bob]

I've seen your high school basketball highlight video. It's really impressive.

[George]

Never a Skywalker, but I will, I will say it's. It's really impressed me how they never seem sick and tired of being sick and tired. They always, they always seem stubbornly married to the success they had in the early 90s as proof of concept that they have done nothing wrong at any point and they see nothing but good things. We know how to get quoting. Yeah. And so because of that, they've never faced their problems and admitted to their problems. And then of course, what you would do when you admit to having a problem is attempt to change your ways. Right. And that's never happened. And so there are these moments in time where you say, well, surely this will get them to, you know, look in the mirror. And I'm sure they have self reflective moments. But a quote like this said with the certainty that DeMarcus said it with, it's definitely calling a shot and it's definitely opening him up for criticism. And he's clearly pandering to a new fan base that just handed him a Bunch of money. But I also kind of love that it worked out for him because he's a bit of a proxy for trying something different in this Dallas football universe is I want to try something different for him. That meant I want to play somewhere else. Many who grew up cowboy fans don't have the ability to change their entire life to go to a new city and follow a team they don't really care about as their change. Yeah, there's definitely not $30 million in it for Tim and Mesquite to change which team he cheers. DeMarcus Lawrence was incentivized. We are not. We just bravely wait for that day where they do things differently. And maybe they are. Maybe they are changing little things under our noses, like Christian Parker and, you know, maybe Brian Schottenheimer was that the year before. And maybe these smaller changes will lead to something big. But for now, all of our heroes, Demarcus Ware to demarcus Lawrence, have had to go elsewhere to finally win big. And they're proving, by the way, that at no point is it actually the man, the player. You know, that's the other thing is we. We end up tarnishing like the careers of a guy like Tony Romo or DEZ Bryant or Jason Whitten or. Or Tyron Smith or any of these guys that are unable to ever win anything. And so people look at their careers and say, was it really that great? I mean, would they ever win? Did they ever get out of the wild card round? Did they ever get out of the divisional round? And, and that, you know, I mean, that's. It's a frustrating conversation to basically feel like Sean Lee's career matters less than. Than guys who have success in February in the biggest venue. But that's kind of how the sport works. And so if Sean Lee signs with the 49ers or signs with the Rams or the packers, maybe he wins. Maybe Jason Whitten has to pick the right team that will go in. But we all say, well, if our best players are actually confirmed to be really good when they join other organizations, well, then could our organization alter its field a little bit so we don't waste the careers of some of these special players we have now? And so I realize it's a. It's a three decade issue, but honestly, George, right now is the moment in time where anybody could look at two 30 year portraits of Cowboys football and show A and show B. And if. I mean, if that doesn't sadden you that this is what this franchise accomplished, the first 30 years, and this is what they've accomplished since. I mean, I don't know what else to say. I mean, that's. That's so. So anyway, DeMarcus Lawrence, I guess, has been vindicated. I'm really happy for him. I know certain people get really upset when somebody turns their back on the Cowboys organization, but I just remind them these guys have one career and it doesn't last long, and for them to chase being a champion. And by the way, I think he stays. If the Cowboys say, we really want you to stay, we really want to make you feel special, and here's a deal that is market value for your services, I think he stays. So I don't think he said, I never want to put on this stinky uniform again. You guys stink. Get me out of here.

[Bob]

According to him, though, they never. They never really gave him any sort of.

[George]

They never even. They never even picked up the phone because they knew that they would rather have Micah Parsons, and so they had earmarked all of demarcus's money for Micah, and. And then, of course, they lost them both, and that's water under the bridge. But to the player, he can't go back to when he was 23 years old, he has to chase whatever is still inside his heart for those final few seasons of his career. And I'm just happy that somebody was rewarded for all of their hard work.

[Bob]

Yes. And I'll leave it with this. I think as I went back and listened to his comments, Mike has returned the back and forth between those two, which was pretty entertaining. I guess what I. What stuck with me was that's coming from a guy who was here for 11 years, and while he was upset that they didn't offer him anything to stay. And I think maybe that's. It's as simple as that. That's what motivated the comment. You could also take it as. This is a guy on the inside who says, there's no way it's ever going to work here. And it's just, you know, if you take it that way, obviously, he can be proven wrong. But I think that's why that one really. That one really hit Cowboy fans last year. And it still hits when you hear that comment, because if you take it that way, that's a guy saying, hey, I don't care what they're selling, it ain't working. Check y', all, I'm going to Seattle.

[George]

Yeah. And that's. I guess that's why when you're building this team in your brain, you want Guys who move the culture needle a little bit and take it personally when they're even drafted here, that one of my goals is to have a successful NFL career. But my second goal, or maybe 1A, is to restore the Dallas Cowboys to the top of the National Football League. And I don't even know that a 21 year old could be wired that way. But in my, you know, in, in, in our thought tank of what is the. The perfect guy, it's somebody that's not only obsessed about his success, but about raising this franchise. Almost like a college coach would say, you know, here, here we are at a sleeping giant, and I won't rest until this program is back where it belongs or it gets to where, you know, you always hear that when a college coach takes a job. And of course, just like DeMarcus Lawrence pandering to the Seahawks fans, a new college coach is pandering to the people that just signed him to a contract. But you just want to hear that. I understand my challenge here. My challenge is not to finish second in our division. My challenge is to raise a franchise that has been wandering the wilderness in tattered clothes and hasn't had enough to eat for 30 years. And I want to rebuild this kingdom appropriately. You know, it might be a William Wallace thing that I have in my head is they, they need Braveheart to play a middle linebacker for them. But, but that's, you know, that's what it feels like sometimes. And so if I'm in the scouting office, the job's already hard enough. We need quality football players, but now Bob wants us to get quality football players that think like Douglas MacArthur or something, you know, in the Pacific Theater. So. So I'm not asking.

[Bob]

Maybe that's a good question to ask at the combine. Do you know who Douglas MacArthur is about Pat.

[George]

I want Pat.

[Bob]

He knows who he is. As my dad always said, with the grace of God and a few Marines, MacArthur took back the Philippines. That's.

[George]

There you go.

[Bob]

That's how Marines saw it as he was an army guy, that he needed Marines to get that done.

[George]

So I love it.

[Bob]

There you go. A little history there for you. As we talk Cowboys in. If the Seattle Seahawks are the standard in the NFL and the nfc and the Cowboys are going to get there and they're going to knock them off their perch. They got to get some things done here in the off season. We know about the defense, but priority number one is what we're going to talk about next when snack time calls. Pork rinds answer. Move over chips. There's a new, crunchier MVP in the snack aisle. Be your own Crunch Time hero with Southern Recipe Pork Rinds this is the ultimate crunch. Low carb, gluten free and packed with protein to help keep you going through every game, meeting and moment in between. It's the kind of crunch you hear, feel and crave, whether you're on the couch, in the car or between bites of victory. Built for real fans with real hunger and the flavors big, bold, crunchy, sweet barbecue hot honey. Yeah, it's that good. So skip the chip and go straight for the snack that delivers serious flavor and serious crunch every single time. Snack smarter, crunch harder. Stock up on Southern Recipes Small Batch pork rinds at H E B or order online at porkrines.com Southern Recipe Pork rinds your snack time Crunch Time Hero.

[George]

Your snack time Crunch Time Hero Fast.

[Bob]

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[George]

Arizona, Massachusetts and Virginia and present state.

[Bob]

Where Underdog fantasy operates, terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit ncpgambling.org In Arizona, call 1-800-Next Step 1-800-639-8783 or text Next Step 283-342 In New York, call the 247 Hope Line at 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY to 467369. Here we go into the off season and you can hear it in the tone of our voice. We're just we don't have as much enthusiasm because football season is in the cooler for a few months. We keep the calendar going. We're going to get excited about free agency in March and the draft in April. The schedule release Bob what a what a big day that is. Whenever it is. April or May, absolutely. And then, and then training camp and it all begins again. And for the Cowboys, they've got some Work to do on the defensive side of the ball, but in these free agents who can go anywhere. And we mentioned Micah Parsons. I haven't seen the whole podcast yet, but I've seen that he's already pitching George Pickens to come to Green Bay on his latest edition because Micah loves podcasting more than we do, probably.

[George]

He's just such a podcaster. There's no franchise that should. Should consider George Pickens less than the Green Bay packers, given how much they've spent on wide receivers here, that is. I don't know how to share this with Micah, so. So from one podcast to another, I would say he is completely trolling Jerry Jones with that new cycle.

[Bob]

Yeah. Try to drive the price up. And. Yeah, that is priority number one, man. Okay, you can say what you want about the Cowboys defense, but the offense showed some real signs. You get improvement in the offensive line, there's a semblance of a ground game better than that. Javante Williams had a really good year. Get him a sidekick back there.

[George]

Yeah.

[Bob]

And get George Pickens back with CD Lamb. And you're cooking on offense now. How do they get that done? They're going to have to do some restructuring. I. I keep hearing this, Bob, that he's going to be. Well, the Cowboys are going to handle it like they always do, and they'll just franchise him, Right? I don't think that's going to sit well with George, my fellow George. I don't think he wants to be franchise. He wants some. He wants some money.

[George]

Well, yeah, he probably does get in line on that front, but. But I do think that is question number one of the off season. And, you know, I mean, it's. It's a constant push and pull with the Cowboys because you just saw the Seahawks win the world title, and the Seahawks are a pretty good example. I think the first thing to say about the Seahawks is here is a team that if. And I said this on the. On the radio show yesterday, so I want to do it with you here.

[Bob]

Okay.

[George]

If you would have told me in August, Bob, I want you to tell me who's going to win the super bowl, and I'm going to give you 10 guesses. Okay, 10. There's only 32 teams in the league. You name 10 teams that you think can win the super bowl, and I'm going, and you've got to hit the super bowl, but I'm going to give you 10 shots, 10 strikes. Do you know how much better of a hitter you would be if you had 10 strikes, George?

[Bob]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George]

So I put. I put my list together of this hypothetical. If you would have asked me In August, the 10 teams I would have picked to win this year's super bowl, that just happened. I would have picked the Chiefs and the Eagles because they were there last year. The bills and the 49ers, which I also think are kind of the co powers in those conferences. Then I would have picked the Ravens and the Lions because I just think those are two smart teams as well. Then I probably would have taken the Commanders because they were in last year's championship game, and weren't the Ravens probably also there? So now we have the Chiefs, Eagles, Bills, Niners, Ravens, Lions, commanders. Packers just got Micah, Rams just got Devonte Adams, and they still have Matthew Stafford. And then let's go the Bengals because they have Joe Burrow back healthy, and they kept Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. Okay, Those are my 10 teams. And the point of this exercise is to say none of them not only got to the super bowl or won the super bowl, but only one of those ten actually even made the final four. So I guess the takeaway is this league is wide open at all times. Yep. So I know you. You wondered, are the Seahawks a team with staying power? I guess what I'm wondering is which team from the middle of the league is going to win next year's Super Bowl? Now, it's. That's a little bit disingenuous and being a prisoner of the moment because we just got done with a decade. George of. Brady. Brady. Brady. Mahomes. Brady. Brady. Mahomes. Brady. Mahomes. Mahomes. Mahomes. So, yeah, so, I mean, it's a. It. We can't act like it's random. Pull a lever. Almost Major League Baseball, where, you know, before the Dodgers, it's. It's. Wow, this is a weird World Series. But, you know, it's just. I. I think there's less randomness than we think. But at the same time, the Seahawks were nobody's. At least not in my top 10. If you wanted to say you would have taken them back in August as one of your top 10.

[Bob]

I mean, I guess you could have said, okay, they showed sign. They won 10 games last year. And what if Darnold is as good as he was in Minnesota? So I just didn't hear that talk until about midway through this season. And everyone's.

[George]

And you know why?

[Bob]

What about Seattle?

[George]

You know, I didn't hear it because the Seahawks thought Geno Smith was a better option than Sam Darnold. And they tried to get something done with Geno before they kind of traded him to Las Vegas and ended up rallying. Like, they offered Geno Smith money, and they just couldn't. They just couldn't come to terms on it. And. And so the Raiders and. And Pete Carroll went and got Geno Smith because they were familiar with them, and, boy, you guys don't want them. We'll take them. We'll sign them at this deal.

[Bob]

And so Gino wants to do over. Yeah, I'll sign.

[George]

Yeah, I'll take it. And, you know, the. The NFL is all about what is plan B, because plan A doesn't always happen. You know, every team in the league is like, yeah, go find my homes. Yeah, there's. There's only one. We better have a plan B, guys, because, you know, so. So anyway, that's. That's a. I just took the scenic route, as I often do. But. But I want to point out here, the team that just won the super bowl has one player making more than $26 million, and it's Sam Darnold, and he's making 33. 5. Okay, that's important to remember because now the Cowboys, if you just go on average annual value, which I do, which I think everybody should, because teams can get a little squirrely with putting, you know, $98 million cap charge on a guy given year, and then everybody says he makes 98 million a year. No, he doesn't. He makes 60 a year. Dak does. But that's 60 CD lambs at 34 a year. And now the franchise tag on a wide receiver is 28. So we're back at the same spot. Where is this roster too top heavy, and is it too offensive skill position heavy? And I know the cap keeps going up, and I am a big believer that the cap is at times a very flexible thing, even if the Jones boys act like it's not. And the smart teams, and I will still say the Philadelphia Eagles are very smart. They are willing to have a much bigger cap now and then worry about it down the road when. When they're out of their window. And I wish the Cowboys would do the same thing. But regardless, the question ultimately is, are you crazy for making your three top paid players quarterback, wide receiver, wide receiver, and this might even lead us back to the mic, a conversation, or it might lead us forward to some people saying, yeah, they're going to franchise him, but it's not crazy that they would actually try to flip him once they secure his rights for 20, 26. Almost like they did with Micah.

[Bob]

Interesting. I personally, I think you got to do it. I think if you.

[George]

I do too.

[Bob]

I think if you see this as a three year window here and I'm talking about, you know, Dak in his prime and this is what you got, I would, I would try to be so dynamic on offense that maybe you're the, the Chiefs of a few years ago or the Rams of the late 90s and that gets you to the super bowl because your offense is so hard to stop. And you may think, oh come on, man, they were good this year, but they weren't that great, man, they were, they were really good. When you consider they got less possessions because of a terrible defense, they got poor field position because of a defense that never got turnovers. And you give me that line, let's say you can project that line to be better as Tyler Guyton and Tyler Booker and Cooper Beebe all grow up together and you piece together a decent offensive line, you've got decent tight ends and when you put those receivers together and Flournoy, man, why couldn't the Cowboys have the. This can sound crazy. Why couldn't they have the best offense in the league next year?

[George]

Yeah, they could. I mean, we saw a lot of flashes of it.

[Bob]

That's, that's assuming you signed Javante Williams as well too. We got to get money to him. That's going to be a hard trick to do all that because someone may pay Williams more than the Cowboys are, are willing to.

[George]

So with Pickens, the tag is about 28. Okay, so when you say he may not like being tagged, he's going to want a bigger contract. I would say that's true, but it's also not unique to him. I think any player in their right mind would want what CD Lamb got, which was a four year deal with a hundred guaranteed.

[Bob]

Yes, but this is not your prototypical NFL player. That's where his personality, I think, comes into play. You could see that with Pickens.

[George]

If he's not, I can. But does that, does that actually make me want to tag him even more? Because if I think he would misbehave over the long term, then, then I would love to have him on just a one year deal which incentivizes him not to be a, a male content. Okay. I mean, that's the thing is he would never play under the tag. He would be upset, he would stomp his feet and he would do a hold in. And Boy George, he might even lay down on the trainer's table during A preseason game.

[Bob]

I'm just afraid he may internalize it. And he's never quite right all year long because he sees Maybe he outperforms CD again this year and CDs healthy, but he's not getting paid. You know, I just.

[George]

Well, the tag. Well, okay, so. So if the tag's 28, just to set the market for people. Jamar Chase is the highest paid receiver at 40. Then Justin Jefferson at 35. Then CD Lamb at 34. And then DK Metcalf, amazingly got 33 from the Steelers. Garrett Wilson, 32. 5. Scary. Terry McLaurin, 32. 3. AJ Brown, speaking of model citizens, 32. And then we dropped to the $30 million barrier. These guys are just scraping by in Life. Aman Ross, St. Brown, 30. Tyreek Hill, 30. Brandon Ayuk, 30. Boy, that's a trifecta of interesting cases. And then just above the tag is T. Higgins, 28. 7 and Jalen Waddle, 28. 2. Would you give George Pickens the T. Higgins deal?

[Bob]

Well, hit me again with it. What was it?

[George]

Well, the. It's 28. 7 a year. It's a four year deal for 115 million. What's interesting about that is somehow they got T. Higgins to sign a four year deal with only 41 guaranteed. That is far and away the lowest guarantee of any of these long term contracts. Where I guess they said, we're tagging you, we're not trading you to get a multi year commitment. We're willing to give you essentially 13 million more than the tag. But then we're gonna have to do this on a year by year basis.

[Bob]

Yes. Answer your question? Yes. If I'm the Cowboys, I would do that.

[George]

So would I. I wonder if he would that. See the tag. What the tag does is it gets a guy to negotiate because once you get tagged, other than an offer sheet, which never happens, he's yours. Yeah. And so from there we move right down the path like, like with Micah, where either you're playing for us or you're playing for nobody. And. And, you know, then of course, we have hurt feelings in training camp because back in the old days, like three years ago, George, guys used to hold out. Now they hold in. And I thought the owners wanted this, but now I almost wonder if the owners hate it.

[Bob]

I think it's worse. I think it's worse. That, that Parsons thing last year was awful. The. The. Yeah, I think it ruins the. Not to be too hyperbolic, but I think it ruins the whole training camp, the vibe of it. It was Just it was bad. And it helped that become a very combustible situation that eventually drove Parsons out of town.

[George]

Yeah. And then you have people to this day saying he was faking his back injury, which is ridiculous. But also, I mean, when I say, are you faking a back injury? I mean, are you missing a meaningful game because you are pretending to be hurt Mike apart? Parsons never did that for a second. No, Michael, this team has never played a high income starter in a preseason game for one snap. So. So. And he's not going to practice without a contract or without an agreement. So he wasn't faking an injury. But he does need to say what's bothering him that's keeping him from playing. And the NFL CBA has prohibited these guys from saying, I'm not playing because I should be holding out right now. So it's a roundaround semantics thing. But I don't want to get back into Micah. What I want to get to is, okay, they're tagging Pickens. I agree on it. You do too. I'd like to get a long term deal for a couple reasons, but I also recognize a long term deal with a person who may have a spotty behavior does come with a risk. So maybe see how the tag goes and see how incentivized his agent, who is actually Micah's agent. Right? Yeah. Is it David Malgetta again?

[Bob]

It's someone with his firm. Right. It's not.

[George]

Okay.

[Bob]

Yeah.

[George]

Okay. Well, the. The only thing I wanted to say before we move on is I've heard a few people say that's the type of guy I would flip for Max Crosby. And. And I just want to say I'm out on that. I appreciate Max Crosby very much, but max Crosby is 28, I believe. No, he's going to be 29 by the next time we play football. And he averages 35. 5 a year. And if I'm going to pay an edge guy 35. 5, then it's Micah Parsons, you know, and I realize it would have been more than that, but the insanity of taking Micah's money and then giving it to Quinn and Williams and, and whether it's Trey Hendrickson or in this case, Max Crosby, I just think you're back in the same place. For this defense to get good, I think you're going to have to go the route of the draft. And some guys who are not the highest paid players of their positions over and over and over again. Seattle just taught us that they can win a Super bowl without any players being the highest paid players at their position. Now it's going to get more expensive. But the point is, I, I think what we're getting at, George, is would you rather have 5 unbelievable players or 15 really good players who are top 15 paid at their position, not top 5?

[Bob]

I would take the latter based on Seattle, but I don't think the Cowboys have a choice given their current structure right now.

[George]

No, once, once they botched the Dak thing so badly, they're. They're sort of pot committed. But honestly, I think the way to go is to get Pickens on a tag and then use those two firsts on defense and, and maybe go get, you know, one free agent who can help your defense keep Javante, probably, depending on where that goes. And I think that's probably your offseason. We talked to Nicole Dean at the, at the super bowl, and I would love for you for one of these weeks before free agency to watch some of his tape and see what you think, what you think about him as a linebacker. Because the Christian Parker connection, I know it's easy for those of us to just say, okay, well, the new DC is the old guy with Philadelphia, okay, who's free from that Philadelphia defense. And you come up with a few, few names. And the two that really jump off the page at people would be Nicobi Dean, because many of us were in love with him in his draft out of Georgia, and he's free and he plays a position you absolutely have to improve, which is basically Mike linebacker. And the other one would be Reed Blankenship, the safety. And I don't know if I feel super strongly about Reed Blankenship, but I do know when they talk about valuation at, like, spot track, you could basically say Donovan Wilson and Reed Blankenship are in the exact same price point. So I would be interested in what Christian Parker thinks of those two guys because obviously he knows them both. Wilson from his time at A and M and Blankenship from his time with the Eagles. But, but I, I would go get Nicobi Dean if I could do 3 for 45. Is that, is that, does that get you there? I don't know.

[Bob]

Yeah, I don't know.

[George]

And keep in mind, Nicobi Dean, some of the best tape I've ever seen at Georgia. And by the way, maybe 3 for 45 is crazy. Maybe you can do it for 3 for 30. I don't know. But I just want to say we should point out he's been hurt a fair amount since the Eagles drafted him. So much so that the Eagles probably Drafted a Jihad Campbell. Or is it jihad? I always get those two mixed up. But. But they drafted him out of Alabama last year. Probably partly to cover themselves in the. In the event Nicobe gets hurt again. So. Okay, so I know, I know injury prone doesn't get people excited, but Nicoby Dean can play and I think you can get them interesting.

[Bob]

And it will be very interesting. Off season for the Cowboys, unrestricted free agency and then the draft. All right, up next, let's talk about a couple of Cowboy legends.

[George]

My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink.

[Bob]

Then straight to the gym, pre K.

[George]

Pickup back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift.

[Bob]

One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits.

[George]

I'm ready. Celsius live fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail]. Mic drop. You ready? Let's do it. Hosted by former Navy SEAL Mike Ridland. It's unfiltered. You know, you go to the sound.

[Bob]

Of the gun, bam, you're gone. It's weird.

[George]

I mean, I've had so many near death experiences. It's raw. I love this country. I offered my life to serve this.

[Bob]

Nation and protect its people. Question what's the meaning of life? And to me it just boils down to one single word, which is purpose.

[George]

Mic drop. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

[Bob]

We've talked a lot about the Cowboys 50 years ago. Bob has been following along in the the trail of 1975 and into 76, which ended in the Super Bowl, Super Bowl 10. They got beat 21 to 17. Even though they didn't win at all, it's still one of the most remarkable seasons in Cowboys history. They were coming off of a year where they missed the playoffs in 1974. They had a really young team. The Dirty Dozen was drafted that year. Some of them turned out to be very prominent Cowboys like Randy White at defensive tackle. But Roger led him to the super bowl that year. They had the Hail Mary in Minnesota. It was a, it was a magical year. And Roger did everything but win the super bowl that year to propel his greatness. And he would a few years later win a Super bowl with the Cowboys in Super Bowl 12. But yeah, it was cool you did that and followed along with the legend of Roger and the 75 Cowboys.

[George]

Would you like an update?

[Bob]

I would love an update.

[George]

I think we're going to go for the 76 Cowboys next.

[Bob]

Oh, my gosh.

[George]

I think we're going to keep going.

[Bob]

Okay.

[George]

I think now here's a spoiler alert.

[Bob]

The ground game does not go well to the point where next year they pull off an incredible trade and go get Tony Dorset. But I don't want to spoil anything.

[George]

Well, thank you for that. But we'll get there, too, I bet. If the good Lord is willing. But a couple things. Yes, we're going to keep going. We're going to see where it takes us. But the NFL Draft in 1975 was in January. The NFL Draft in 1976 gets moved to April. So that's very significant. So we will have some downtime here for me to recuperate and. And rest up, because the 76 draft, which won't be as fruitful as a 75 draft. But. But what is. And we'll get into that. So. So here's what I got on Roger Staubach for you today. So I want to set it up by telling you a story of I was at the Cowboys Niners playoff game in San Francisco in 2022, okay. I think think which was the final play of Zeke playing center and all the. All the unintentional comedy of that sad day out there in San Francisco. I was at that game and I was working at the Athletic at the time. And. And I think I conned them into paying my way to go cover a Cowboys road playoff game, as I would do periodically back then. And so I'm in the press box at the 49ers Cowboys game now to protect the innocent or even the guilty. I don't want to give you any context clues on who the media person was. In fact, I'm just going to call them a media person to even protect the possibility that it could be a man or a woman or old or young or just anything. But I want to tell you the conversation really quickly, okay? I'm sitting next to media person, and Media person shows me a picture on media person's phone and asks me, do you know who this person is? And I look at it and it's that moment where you think you're being pranked, George. Because I look at it and I can see it's clearly Jerry Rice.

[Bob]

Okay?

[George]

But the person I'm covering this playoff game with does not know that that's Jerry Rice because of age. And we are in San Francisco and media person was just on the field and noticed a commotion around this person. Let me take picture and ask somebody to identify who this famous person is. And I'm thinking you are identifying what is potentially the most famous and greatest person who's ever played the sport in the stadium for the franchise with which he had played. So I found that on one hand, if it was you or one of my other close friends, I would have made enormous sport of it and laughed and. And called in other people to point. At last.

[Bob]

Do you know who Jerry Rice is? Okay.

[George]

Right. But because it's a person from the next generation, I tried to be empathetic and remember that I'm getting older, and I've watched lots of football, and to cover a football game does not require a vast test of your grasp of football history. So thankful to basically say it another way. They don't have to know who Jerry Rice is to cover the Cowboys niners game in 2022.

[Bob]

Absolutely right.

[George]

Yeah.

[Bob]

Yeah. Absolutely not. Especially the next generation. Yeah. They. They aren't nearly as familiar. Even though he played to the age of 41.

[George]

Yes.

[Bob]

Yeah, that's fine.

[George]

But I want to be accepting of the. I want to be gracious enough, even though my. All my instincts and I think all of yours say we. That's a very tough one to forgive.

[Bob]

You didn't go to the Bob Arsenal and call him E or a clown.

[George]

I did not. I did not. I just said, yeah, that's a Jerry Rice. You might want to Google him. Okay, so. So fast forward to this super bowl, and there's a great football book out right now by Chuck Klosterman, who's one of my favorite authors, and it's called Football.

[Bob]

You tell me a little bit about this. Yeah.

[George]

Yes. It's a. It's a really good book. Yeah, I enjoy it very much. But he was being interviewed about his book at the super bowl, and so I'm listening. And I got my little Chuck Klosterman foam finger out, and he's being interviewed by somebody who is 40 years old. And in the book, Chuck confesses that he grew up a Cowboy fan and that his very favorite player was Roger Staubach. And Chuck is my age, 53. And. And I found that interesting because nowhere in Chuck's work does he confess to be a big Cowboy fan. And he actually goes into it where he says, in retrospect, I still follow the Cowboys, but I don't really follow them from a Die Hard standpoint now. I follow them as a bit of a casual following. I want to see their games. But. But it doesn't keep me up at night like it once did. It doesn't. You know, it's not. Whatever. It's just change for him. And he realized in the book that he wasn't a Cowboys Die Hard, he was a Roger Staubach Die Hard. And that was the connection with his heart. And then the interviewer said, I'm a little too young to know anything about Roger Staubach. In fact, I'm actually uncomfortable trying to pronounce his name. I'm not sure is it Staubach or Staubach or whatever. And they get into this back and forth and it occurs to me that a 40 year old sports football media guy is now kind of out of the demo on anything having to do with Roger Staubach. Now actually, that makes sense because Roger, I believe, is older than Jerry Jones. I think he's right at the same age.

[Bob]

84.

[George]

They're right at the same age. They're, they're right there. So there's no reason why a 40 year old should know everything about Roger Staubach. But I bring it all up to ask you, do you realize as dude, I could see you speaking on his behalf, you are an expert on Roger Staubach's life and times. You could teach a semester of Staubach 201. And I'm just curious if you realize that people listening to us right now, it may be leaving like, like everybody gets forgotten in history at a certain point. And I, I feel like it took that conversation to, to remind me that a superhero, a literal superhero in the city is, is, is probably well past anybody under the age of 50 knowing really what made him special.

[Bob]

That is true. And I started realizing that, Bob, a while back, let's say early aughts, because in the context of our show, if I had it to do it my way, I would have Charlie Waters, Drew Pearson, Cliff Harris on weekly.

[George]

Yeah, you know, right.

[Bob]

And we had this conversation with the guys on my show and I started thinking, you know, our listeners, especially Those in their 20s, they have no idea who these guys are.

[George]

None.

[Bob]

And that was, that was pretty, that was a tough one for my cowboy heart. So, yeah, I would think now. And you're right, Jerry will not turn 84 until October. Roger just turned 84. So he's months older than Jerry Jones. And you are right about this. But this is important though. I really didn't watch Johnny Unitis play much, just barely as I was gaining sports consciousness. He was finishing off his career. But as a football fan, I read about him. I watched NFL films, I got the context. I knew who he was. I didn't watch Gail Sayers run.

[George]

Right.

[Bob]

But I lived in Chicago a few years after he retired and I figured out pretty quickly. Plus, I saw Brian's Song. Not a documentary, but. But that got me interested as a kid. I need to learn more about this. Was he really that great? Well, yeah. He may have been the greatest running back ever cut short, back when knee injuries would end a career without question. But I would say this to you. If you're listening to us and you're a big Cowboys fan and you just hear Roger's name and you watch a Football Life about Roger Stallback. And it is, it's my favorite one. And I've seen every Football Life. I think they're great.

[George]

They are.

[Bob]

They're just so well done. A lot of NFL films, a lot of incredible writing. And if you're a Cowboy fan, if you're a human and you don't tear up at the end of that, you may want to go visit your doctor. Because it is the best. Roger was the best. And there's so many people that say it, from former teammates to politicians who say Roger represents the best in all of us. Roger served our country. Roger has morals. Roger, you know, put his Christian faith out there. And yet he's, he's hilarious. His line to Phyllis George about he likes sex just as much as Joe Namath, but he does it with the same woman. He's funny. He was funny when he did color commentary on CBS when he took a couple of jabs at politicians. Roger is everything wrapped up in the one, let alone one of the greatest football players of all time. And at the heart of it, he is a. He's a husband and a dad that we all aspire to be. So like I said, if you're a human, you go watch that. And especially if you're a Cowboys fan. And I wonder this, just maybe we can expand on this in another episode. Do you think Cowboy fans have a greater appreciate appreciation for their history than other teams? I would like to think yes. But then again, if you came along and your first memory was Super Bowl 30 or you don't remember Super Bowls because you were 2 years old in 1996, I don't know if you have a great appreciation for the incredible tradition of this franchise.

[George]

Well, I think at some point we should make sure Football Friends does a watch watch along of a Football life. Roger Staubach and then makes it half of one of our off season episodes. What do you think of that?

[Bob]

I love that I'll even go one step further. We watch it and then, you know, he's 84. I don't know if he wants to do an hour, but Maybe we do five or 10 minutes with the man himself.

[George]

That'd be incredible. Yeah, that'd be incredible. I would love to catch up. It's been a long time, and, yeah, he's a superhero. And, you know, I realize that with our phones and with the news cycle and with everything, people may not want to dive into history as much, but when you talk about a literal legend of this franchise, the most I know, with all due respect to many other great Cowboys, the one name that has basically made the Cowboys America's team is Captain America. And, you know, there's just. There's just no way around it. And so for all the reasons you detailed and many that we don't have time to go over today, but we should. Roger Staubach should be part of your Cowboy fan experience, even if you. You already know a lot of this stuff, and it's just fun to sort of dive back in and appreciate a guy who. Who just had another birthday. And again, I can't tell you there's anything more mind blowing than thinking that Roger is older than Jerry Jones.

[Bob]

I know. I haven't even thought about that in a while, but you are so right about that. And just a 10 second. I know we're. We're running up. But hey, we can go eight hours if we want to.

[George]

You know, we probably can. Peter will protest. But we probably can't.

[Bob]

But real quick, it's. Why am I a sports optimist? Because of Roger, the guy I did North Texas games with. Hank Dickinson. We did games together for more than 20 years. And, you know, North Texas be down 19 early in the fourth quarter, and I'd be there. Okay, Phil, field goal. Get a field goal here. Don't go for two the first time. And you know, I say you are so optimistic it can happen. And I've just had that revelation recently. I think the reason I'm like that is because of Roger. Roger made me think anything was possible.

[George]

Okay. You just made me think about this book again, so I'm gonna. You're gonna have to read this book anyway. It's. Some of it will interest you, some of it may not, but it. But he was telling a story about his dad. Klosterman was about football and life and watching games with your dad. And so they were apparently watching the Doug Flutie game together.

[Bob]

I remember watching that, too. My parents, they were. That guy's little. There's no way he can throw it that far.

[George]

Yeah. And I guess dad was a defeatist. Or something, because he was used to his teams always losing, and my dad is, too, and just the way that they seem actually more frustrated when they watch football. But Closerman's story is about his dad and the Doug Flutie game and what his dad was saying before the moment of the Hail Mary happened. And then the Hail Mary happened. And it was this profound moment where, oh, my gosh, we just saw a miracle live. Like it just. You don't. You can watch a thousand games and not see something like this happen. Which, of course, Rogers, pretty famous for his own Hail Mary. But I remember Klosterman telling the story in the book where his dad sort of shakes his head and says, you see that right there? That's why I am who I am. And he is who he is. And you're just like, whoa. Like. Like just that phrase. The dad's like, we were beat. Like, there's no hope. There's. What's the use? What are we even throwing the ball in the end zone for?

[Bob]

Yeah.

[George]

And then. And then he looks at that dude. He's like, that guy still believed. And that's why we won. And what sort of life lessons. Yeah, absolutely.

[Bob]

It's not over.

[George]

No, it's not over. So what I love about football, friends, is we. We both are wired for some reason to get kicked in the junk over and over and over again and to still think that someday we're going to win something. So. So, so I love that. And that's why I love talking ball with you.

[Bob]

Anyway, ditto.

[George]

That's good. And, you know, along those same Roger, on the list.

[Bob]

Yes, got it. On the list. And along those same lines, we. We pass along our condolences to the family of Carolyn Price, maybe the biggest Cowboy fan of all time. She passed this last week at the age of 83. And if you've been following the Cowboys, the last name, your years, 10, 15, 20, 25 years, especially, I would say in the last couple of decades, she really was at the forefront. She was the most vocal Cowboy fan. Starting at the first day of training camp until the last game of the season, Ms. Price was usually on the front row saying something like this.

[George]

Man.

[Bob]

That may have been taken from training camp. I mean, she was like that. As the players, we'd go jogging out in the field. Quincy, don't let him punk you. You know, just going nuts. She was. And when you had a chance to talk to her, she couldn't have been a sweeter person.

[George]

No, there's no doubt. And, and. And also all the Years would always struck me about Ms. Price. And, and she would, she would be very clear that she believes in being called Ms. Price. So don't Caroline her. Yeah, but, but, but the, the thing that always struck me was pretty much any guy who ever put on a cowboy's uniform knew who she was and they would recognize her and they would appreciate her and just whatever the case may be. And so yes, whether it was hard knocks or training camp or whatever, her, her, her voice might wear on you after a couple weeks of training camp because she did not mind call. But boy, did she love her cowboys. Boy, was she faithful. And, and I think one time I.

[Bob]

Said to her, it's practice. And she said, well, these are my babies.

[George]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bob]

Okay.

[George]

No, Rest in peace, Ms. Price. We'll never forget you. You made an incredible impression. And yes, the. I think just about every cowboy fan knows they lost somebody who, who never, who never left her spot on that wall for, for her Dallas.

[Bob]

She believed, Bob. She did stop believing.

[George]

And I think we might have even identified her during one interview as part of the problem because you're. You love these guys too much. Despite how much they disappoint us all.

[Bob]

Yeah. Don't bring them cookies. They went 79 last year.

[George]

Yeah. Unbelievable. Shout out to the Dallas Morning News. Yeah, absolutely.

[Bob]

Yes. Thank you Dallas Morning News for that audio and thank you to Peter Welton for producing this. We went a little long, Bob, but man, week by week the conversations just get deeper and better, don't they?

[George]

They really do. And it's funny because each time when we start this we'll be like, well.

[Bob]

This one won't be as 45 minutes.

[George]

We keep going longer. So who knows, who knows? Maybe eight hours.

[Bob]

Here we come. Oh, you're the best, Bob. Let's talk again next week. What do you say?

[George]

We will be right back here.

[Bob]

Georgie, do it on the musers the podcast cowboys edition.

[George]

This isn't your average podcast. You like party?

[Bob]

I do like a huge chug of tequila.

[George]

The howler head whiskey bottle chug in.

[Bob]

Front of Dana White.

[George]

That was the first time we ever went to la.

[Bob]

We somehow got into a biddy party. What's an Elon Musk house party look like?

[George]

My party check generally have very high production value. This is full send. I do want to do a lot more pranks. Bunch of different pranks. Join the party. Jack Doherty in the house.

[Bob]

Feeling good, man.

[George]

What are we going to talk about with Will Smith?

[Bob]

I know what you're going to say.

[George]

Shout out to feel Vaughn. It's been entertaining. Dude. The full send podcast. Grab the boys, grab the beers. Let's do it. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.