Dallas Sweetheart - Episode 22

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Musers The Podcast – "Dallas Sweetheart" (Ep. 22)

Original Release Date: November 19, 2025
Host: The Musers (George Dunham, Craig “Junior” Miller, Gordon Keith)
Guest: Kelly Finglass (Director of the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders)

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode celebrates the legacy, cultural impact, and day-to-day reality of the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders (DCC), with special guest Kelly Finglass. As both a former cheerleader and the long-serving director, Kelly offers a behind-the-scenes look into the rigorous world of DCC, the evolution of its brand (most recently via the Netflix series "America’s Sweethearts"), and the highs and lows of unprecedented visibility and responsibility. The episode blends classic Musers banter with sincere conversation about leadership, performance, and community within one of the most iconic performing squads in America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Career Origins and Early Days (05:00–08:00)

• Kelly recounts her journey from drum major in Lindale, TX to DCC rookie in 1984, and later her surprise at still being part of DCC four decades on.
• Quote: "I've always been in performance... my background with precision and music and leadership and dance, it kind of makes sense when I look back over my life." — Kelly (05:09)
• She reflects on her disciplined upbringing, early influences (like her band director), and how a radio ad convinced her to try out for DCC.

2. The Behind-the-Scenes of Reality TV (07:51–11:50)

• Kelly traces the evolution from "Making the Team" (CMT, 16 seasons) to Netflix’s "America's Sweethearts," emphasizing changes in editorial control and increased authenticity.
• She describes an initial sense of "being out of control" with Netflix’s approach, but comes to appreciate the honest portrayal of imperfections and private struggles.
• Quote: “I’ve spent a whole career trying to present flawlessness... What’s really, to me, the most interesting and beautiful is showing the girls’ flaws and they talk openly about things, and I think it’s kind of cool.” — Kelly (10:39)

3. The Impact of National and Global Fame (12:07–13:41)

• With Netflix’s reach, DCC’s profile is at an all-time high, resulting in both excitement and challenges, like lack of privacy and a surge in high-caliber applicants from around the world.

4. Leadership Philosophy and Emotional Challenges (13:42–16:41)

• Kelly discusses the emotional difficulty of cutting girls from the squad, and how portrayals on TV (especially CMT) could paint her as "ruthless."
• The current focus is on transparency and compassion. She admits to crying more on the Netflix series: “But I care, and I think they've caught me in some pretty emotional moments.” (14:06)
• On the difference between reality show production styles: Netflix’s “fly on the wall” approach feels less intrusive than CMT’s staging and reshoots.

5. Working with the Jones Family and Notable Show Moments (17:18–23:07)

• Kelly recalls the evolution of her working relationship with Charlotte Jones, highlighting live halftime show chaos (notably, the infamous "flying doves & pyro" mishap at a Creed performance).
• Memorable Story: Birds released for a halftime show were startled by unexpected pyro. "At the end of the show when we did pyro, some of the birds met their maker... Charlotte was looking across the field at me, and she just screamed, 'If you see a dead bird, pick it up.'" — Kelly (19:06)

6. Interfacing with Celebrities and Musical Heroes (20:13–23:07)

• Kelly gushes about working with legends like Dolly Parton ("she’s everything you want her to be") and Queen (her "breathless moment" meeting Brian May).
• Quote: "My favorite picture of my career is Brian May, me and Judy are looking at each other like, what are we gonna do?" (23:03)

7. Insider Notes on Daily Life & The Demands of the Job (24:19–27:04)

• The schedule for both Kelly and the DCC is relentless, filled with TV appearances, rehearsals, live shows, tours, and USO appearances. 12–14 hour days are common.
• The DCC department remains, structurally, a part of the Cowboys Football Club.

8. Visibility, Pay, and the DCC Brand Value (28:10–32:27)

• Kelly discusses the evolution (and increase) of DCC pay and responsibilities.
• New data: A "substantial" number of first-time Cowboys game attendees cite the cheerleaders as their main draw (29:29).
• DCC’s brand prowess rivals that of the Cowboys itself.

9. Athleticism and Injury (32:27–34:05)

• Musers marvel at the level of athleticism—the show finally demonstrates the dancers' physical demands.
• Kelly relates how former cheerleaders have undergone multiple surgeries, akin to athletes or gymnasts.

10. Feedback, Improvement, and Staying Connected (33:19–36:48)

• After seeing herself on Netflix, Kelly now provides more frequent and honest feedback, aiming to foster improvement and emotional support for her squad.
• Strong alumni ties: "That's kind of the best part... we have more fun when they're gone." (35:55)

11. Fraternization Rule & Team Culture (36:48–39:51)

• On the storied “no fraternization” rule: originally from Tom Landry, but enforcement nowadays is lax. "It's not a problem." (38:20)

12. Social Media and Mental Health (43:33–46:05)

• The toxic effect of online commentary, particularly Reddit, on DCC members’ wellbeing is discussed in depth.
• Kelly’s advice to the team: "If it's not true, if it's not kind, and if it's not helpful, don't post it, don't like it." (44:29)
• Visibility has also enabled some cheerleaders to become successful influencers—but with increased scrutiny.

13. Lindale Childhood, Local Pride, and East Texas Icons (47:20–50:10)

• Kelly paints a nostalgic picture of growing up in rural Lindale, her rivalry/friendship with Miranda Lambert, and connections to Casey Musgraves.
• Favorite Musgraves’ song: "Merry Go Round, which describes Lindale and Minneola to a T." (49:07)

14. From Band Major to Cheerleader: Path to DCC (50:27–52:07)

• No cheerleading in high school—her background was band and dance.
• First DCC tryout music: "Footloose," with a solo set to "Maniac." (50:47)

15. Family, Gifts, and Lasting Relationships (52:25–54:09, 65:21–69:40)

• The importance of meaningful connections, including a touching story of Kelly sending cheerleader pom poms to George’s daughter.
• In the episode’s final moments, Kelly surprises the Musers with rare Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader Barbies, a notebook, and a desk calendar—a parallel to the cheerleader tradition of awarding Barbies for artistic excellence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Authenticity on Screen:
  “What’s really, to me, the most interesting and beautiful is showing the girls’ flaws and they talk openly about things, and I think it’s kind of cool.” — Kelly (10:39)

• On the Demands of the Job:
  “I do, yeah... I don’t really even get to see emails until I’m home, and then I’ll be twisted in bed and looking at emails, and then it gets in my head.” — Kelly (25:29)

• On Fraternization:
  “It’s not a problem.” — Kelly (38:20)
  “Tom Landry didn’t want any distractions.” — Kelly (37:24)

• On Social Media Exposure:
  “I don’t read Reddit because that’s a place where the cheerleaders get their hearts broken.” — Kelly (43:47)

• On Queen:
  “When we got there, Roger Taylor and Brian May walked out, and then we were rehearsing with them and wow, Judy and I were kind of having this—we had... we had to choreograph. And then I saw these huge, big, cascading staircases, and I was like, can we dance on those staircases?” — Kelly (22:09)

• On Motivation for Long Tenure:
  “Now I’m an empty nester and the girls are my kids again.” — Kelly (58:59)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Letter of the Week & Listener Feedback: 01:08–02:59
• Introduction of Kelly Finglass: 02:59–05:09
• Early DCC Career & Leadership: 05:09–08:14
• Transition to Reality TV: 07:52–11:21
• The Impact of Netflix: 11:52–13:08
• Coaching, Cuts, and Emotions: 13:41–16:41
• Working with the Jones Family: 17:09–19:38
• Queen & Notable Performers: 20:27–23:18
• Typical DCC Schedule: 24:19–27:04
• Pay, Visibility, and Brand Strength: 28:10–32:27
• Athleticism and Injuries: 32:27–34:05
• Feedback Adjustments: 33:19–35:16
• Social Media Pressures: 43:33–46:05
• Growing Up in Lindale: 47:20–50:18
• Discussing Favorite Movies/Music: 62:08–64:12
• Gift-Giving Finale (DCC Barbie Story): 65:21–69:40

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Podcast’s Signature Tone

• A potent mix of sharp, friendly banter and genuine, insightful commentary—a warm, relaxed space where even deep or sensitive topics are broached with both respect and wit.

For New Listeners

This episode encapsulates everything The Musers are known for: irreverent humor, local Dallas flavor, and candid exploration of cultural touchstones. The featured guest, Kelly Finglass, delivers heartfelt stories, industry wisdom, and highlights the evolving culture around the DCC—making for a compelling listen whether you’re a Cowboys fan or simply interested in the world of high-profile performance teams.

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Listening Recommendation:
Start at [02:59] for the introduction to Kelly Finglass; the conversation flows organically from there, with highlights around the 18:55 mark (halftime shows), the 22:09 segment (Queen rehearsal story), 39:51 (the “no-fraternization” rule), and the delightful Barbie-gift epilogue at 65:21.

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Transcript

[A]

Hello, friends.

[B]

Guess who? That's right.

[A]

It is I, the replacer. Once again, I've been called on so you can play the new Call of Duty Black Ops 7 with three expansive modes, 18 multiplayer maps, and the tastiest zombie gameplay you've ever freaking seen.

[C]

Call of Duty Black Ops 7 available now. Rated M for mature. Do you think you can.

[B]

I played Stairway to Heaven in church on.

[C]

On a piccolo flute.

[B]

The flute. Me and my friend David, he played guitar and I played flute and we played.

[A]

Yeah, Stairway to Heaven in Stairway to Heaven.

[B]

Had heaven. We didn't know.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[C]

The Musers the podcast. It's episode 22. Dallas's Sweetheart.

[D]

Welcome to the Musers the Podcast. Thanks for joining us. I'm Craig the Iceman Miller.

[A]

I'm George. No nicknames.

[C]

And I'm Gordon. George. Keith. My nickname's George. It's a little confusing.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[C]

First time listeners.

[D]

All right, really looking forward to this episode. We have a special guest, the leader of one of the most popular sports and performance groups on the planet. And we will begin our visit right after we award the letter of the week. You can email us the muserspodmail.com and this week, congratulations are in order to Blaze, who sent this letter to us regarding episode 20, which was entitled Amish Sex Robots, where we discussed the future of love and relationships in the new AI world. And Blaze sends this in and he looks at it from both sides. Regarding regarding Craig's story about kissing the girl at the front door in high school after a nervous first date and then hearing her and her sister laughing after the door closed. I agree with George that those are important life experiences. But one difference now is that girl might put that laughter or insult or whatever into a text group or social media group and that text group maybe is mingled with another. So kids run the risk of their failures or embarrassments being instantly broadcast to dozens of people in their peer group.

[A]

Didn't even think of that.

[D]

There is something incredibly enriching about human contact, though. Blaze continues. I've gone on many camping and hiking trips with my sons and other adults and their kids. We've gone to beautiful places. But the best part, by a long shot is just sitting around the fire at the end of the day and talking about whatever. Nowhere else to go, nothing else to do, no phones, just sitting and talking and staring into the fire for hours. It's just amazing for your soul.

[A]

Okay? No, he's right. And I've already had a lot of people sign up for the Future Amish movement that I'm going to be a part of.

[C]

George's new Amish movement.

[A]

Yeah, it's going to be great.

[C]

The new Amish now with less sex robots.

[A]

That's right.

[D]

Thank you, Blaze, for that letter. And again, you can email us here anything you hear on any of our episodes. The muserspodmail.com. okay, on with the show now. And let's introduce today's guest. She is someone that we've all known for a long time. She's. She's a former Dallas Cowboys cheerleader from 1984 to 1989, and then in 1991, was named director of the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders, a role she still has today. And she is one of the stars, the star, really, of the hit Netflix series America's Sweethearts, season two of that dropping over the summer, the reality series about the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. We welcome to the podcast. Kelly Finglass. Good to see you. Thank you for joining us.

[B]

Good morning.

[A]

Good to see y' all in studio.

[C]

Would you like to talk about sex robots?

[B]

I'm a little nervous. I listen to all the podcasts with that episode, so that's gonna be first on my list.

[A]

Oh, gosh.

[B]

Give me the clipnotes on it, or can you.

[D]

Well, we just talked about the way with AI and sex robots and, you know, more and more people not dating and just relating online and living their lives online, what direction love and relationships are going.

[A]

And Gordon has us with sex robots within five years.

[C]

I'm just saying, Kelly, that I think that there's a good chance we already kind of get used to the fact that we have devices that sexually help us out.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

What happens if we put a body back behind the. The buzzing cylinder that's in the nightstand?

[A]

I'm sorry, Kelly.

[B]

Can I. I know. I'm speechless.

[C]

Blushing a little.

[A]

I am, too. This is so uncomfortable.

[D]

We're in the first minute of our interview.

[A]

Why are we starting there with robots?

[C]

For a summary of that.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

But you could have summarized it differently than that.

[C]

I thought.

[B]

I'm real curious. That's episode what, 2020. Okay, great.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

So did you ever think back in 1984 when you made the Dallas Cowboys cheerleader squad as a rookie, that 40 plus years later, you would still be involved with that group?

[B]

No. I could never have imagined. It's hard to imagine, but it feels really natural. When I look back, I've kind of been writing some of my thoughts down. And when I look back at my life and my leaders and my education and my influencers, it kind of makes sense. I've always been in performance. It's kind of. I was the drum major in my band. Go ahead and laugh if you want, that's great. But in Lindale, the band was the big thing. And so when I started looking back through my yearbook photos and I was the leader in my band, I grew up in a very disciplined environment in my house. Same with my teachers and my band director. And I found this picture. And it's this 300 piece marching band. And it's me in front of the band next to my band director, Mr. Alani, who has always been the most influential person in my life. And you know, then that just kind of. I went to TCU as a dance major. Then I tried out for DCC and didn't think I'd make it. I actually tried out because Ron Chapman, y' all remember Ron Chapman, he talked about it on the radio. And I heard the ad on the radio and thought I'd try it. Auditions were a part of my dance degree. So I went to the audition and I made it. And then life changed. But it. The. My background with precision and music and leadership and dance, it. It kind of makes sense when I look back over my life.

[A]

So you went to tcu then North Texas. You were at North Texas same time we were.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Why did we hang out more? What were you doing?

[B]

I wasn't having any fun at school. I was a. I was a remote by then. I was a cheerleader. I was at rehearsals every night. I had a part time job at Kelly Services. Kelly Services, this is Kelly. May I help you?

[D]

Makes sense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I was at rehearsals every night, so I had no campus experience in North Texas.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

But I love my classes. And that's where my degree, My degree.

[A]

We're proud of you. The fact that you've gone on from North Texas to do what you've done, it's incredible.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

We were.

[D]

We were fun to hang out with.

[A]

We were so much fun to hang.

[B]

I know. I've. I've forgotten everything.

[A]

Well, and your husband, I think, was he roommates at one point with Craig Way or they were friends at least?

[B]

Friends?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe roommates.

[A]

No, maybe not. Okay. That's a made up fact that I just threw out. I'll check that out. We. I guess I was getting to. We actually had a connection. So we could have been friends.

[B]

But yeah, Joel's been friends with all the guys here, Dan Bennett and the gang. Because when he was in sales, that's who he worked With.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

All right. Now that you're a big television star and all of America knows you, I mean, America Sweethearts has done very well on Netflix. It'd be like, in the top 10 all the time.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[D]

And they've ordered a third season, right?

[B]

Yes, we're filming now.

[D]

That's great.

[C]

So when it first came up. And let's go back to the series that happened before America's Sweethearts, when you had making the team that ran on the country music CMT for 16 seasons.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

When that came about, were you just told that was going to happen, or was this something that you were involved in?

[B]

Campaigning for the CMT project?

[C]

Yeah, the CMT project.

[B]

I was more involved with the cmt. We were starting to get a lot of offer letters to do reality tv. And at the time, it was maybe bachelor and hot tub scenes and all that dating and kissing and all that kind of stuff. And I wasn't interested in that, but have always been interested in doing a show about the auditions and the talent portion. It was kind of like the talent portion of the Miss America contest that nobody ever saw. We used to have Irving community cable. They'd come with one camera and film the auditions. But a guy named Eugene Pack wrote me a letter. Amongst all the letters that I said no to, he wrote a letter and he said, I like to do a show on y'. All. And he used to. He had covered the Miss America pageant, and when I read that, I thought he might have some understanding of a brand and protecting it and a group of women that compete and aspire and empower. And so when we had those conversations, then I started talking to the production company, and I was definitely very involved with the origins of the CMT show.

[C]

Did Jerry have any hand in creating that as an idea, or is this guy approaches you and says, hey, we want to do a show with this? And then you take it to Cowboys, the upper levels of the cowboys, and pitch it to them.

[B]

The latter, it was more me and Eugene and the production company, a group named Triage out of California. And when we said, yeah, let's do it, then I think I probably took it to Charlotte. That was so long ago, I've forgotten. But we started, and obviously I didn't know what I was getting into. I do now.

[C]

And it's been great for the cheerleaders.

[B]

I would think it has. It's. You know, it did what I wanted it to originally, which was to show people the talent and the authenticity of the girls and the Diversity of the girls. But it also, with this visibility, has created vulnerability. I mean, you were. I was listening to you read that letter about the social media and how. How vulnerable you are when you're just going through life. And that's what it's like now. I mean, now we have. I have no editorial rights notes, nothing on the show with Netflix. So that was different for me.

[C]

Netflix is very different than the agreement that you had with cmt.

[B]

Just different in design, in director, just everything, just totally different. They're interviewing people that I don't know. They're interviewing. They're interviewing cheerleaders. I mean, it's not just in our studio. So where it felt at first, I felt kind of out of control of it. Now that I've watched it, the first time I watched it is probably when anybody else watched it. And I've spent a whole career trying to present flawlessness and the show. What's really, to me, the most interesting and beautiful is showing the girls flaws and they talk openly about things, and I think it's kind of cool.

[C]

So you learned that that was, I guess, okay?

[B]

I learned it's okay. I think, you know, at some point when I say I'm done, I want to know that I've inspired people hopefully to do good things, bigger things, better things, humble things. And I think the biggest lesson that I've learned through certainly the Netflix show is people when they can relate to you and. Or your problems or your challenges or your victories, your. Somebody's. It's going to ring true to somebody and hopefully help someone. That's been the best part of that.

[D]

Have you noticed that your profile individually and the squad's profile has been raised even more? Because I'm imagining Netflix has a much broader reach than cmt. And have you felt it go up a notch or two?

[B]

Oh, yeah, I felt it go up a notch or two just in, you know, lack of privacy and just can't get through the airport. You know, simple things like that. In terms of the people trying out, the level of dancers are elevated. They're definitely better dance technicians than we were back in the 80s. But they're coming now from all over the country. This year, I have, I think, ladies from 15 different states. I have one from Rutgers University and one from UCLA, California, New York, New Jersey, everywhere in between and New Zealand. So that international candidate is. We can feel it. It's measurable.

[A]

The show's great and it does detail how hard you work, how hard Judy works, how hard the girls work, and that's One thing that I saw when I did, when I worked, I was going to ask you what it's like to work for the Jones family. We'll talk about that. But I worked very part time for them from 98 to. We worked together.

[B]

I know. Yeah. We miss you.

[A]

Oh, that's very sweet. But I did notice in that time, man, these girls work so hard and it's like a, it really is like a team and you're the coach and I think that's, I don't know how you think you come across when you watch it on Netflix, but to me you come across as a, a caring coach that feels for the girls knowing exactly what they went through because you were a cheerleader. And how do you feel you come across when you watch? Do you cringe or do you go, okay, well, I handled that okay. And it's, it, it translated to the tv.

[B]

It's hard to, I think it's truly hard to be really self aware. The first season, when I watch the CMT seasons, I was kind of ruthless. I, I, I, I don't like CMT Kelly as much.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And you never know how it's going to happen with the way they edit it. And that's not, maybe the whole day was like that, but maybe just 10 seconds were like that.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, CMT concentrated solely on when I would cut cheerleaders in my office. And that's in any industry. Yeah, there's love, there's life, there's laughter, it's fun and oops, now we've got to make this cut. And that's when I get my game face on. I get real serious, you know, it's hard, it's hard for me on Netflix. I've been told I cry more, which I do, but I care. And I think they, they've caught me in some pretty emotional moments. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's powerful. It comes across that way. And you could imagine when you have to tell a girl, whether it's tryouts or maybe at some point during the season when you have to have those meetings, that's, I'm sure, a really tough part of your job.

[B]

It is. In fact, I've even wondered. Y' all probably know better than I do, like, what, who does it for the football team? I mean, I'm, it is me flying solo. Every word that comes across my lips is going out to global. Like, who does it for football teams?

[A]

It's usually the head coach.

[B]

It is the head coach.

[A]

Get someone to bring him in. And yeah, sometimes they'll have somebody from the front office in there too, but that's usually how it goes.

[B]

I remember you guys remember in Hard Knocks when Bruce Mays used to always bring the guys, but I don't remember the conversation who had it.

[A]

Yeah, it's usually the head coach.

[D]

Yeah. When the players saw Bruce Mays come and they knew that was bad news.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Bring your playbook.

[D]

How. How invasive are the cameras? How much do you think about them? Because they're in all these meetings with you and Judy and the whole staff, or they're. You know when you call a girl in and you're telling the girl that she's not making the squad, how conscious are you of the camera? And just trying to separate yourself from that and do the job?

[B]

I think we've all kind of grown used to having cameras. It's not as invasive as you would think at all. Especially with Netflix. They're definitely more fly on the wall. With cmt, I might be in an office this size, and we'd have a guy with a boom mic and two cameras, and they're all sitting down on the floor, and here I am talking to a girl, and you can hear one guy eating pretzels while we're talking. Or. I mean, it's very apparent that there's three men in an office. Excuse me. And me and a cheerleader. But now we just roll. We really kind of do. And they do, too. They're great at that. They're very fast. They're not intrusive. We don't wait for the dreaded repo. The repositioning of lights or anything. So I don't think. I hope it does it. I don't think it affects what I say or how I say it.

[C]

So they don't make you do. Okay, that was great. Can you cut her again? We're going to.

[B]

I had that asked of me once in the cmt, and I was like, absolutely not. But there was definitely a few start and stops. I think one of the funniest moments, because I'm looking at your ceiling, was I was literally across the desk from a cheerleader, and I was releasing her in a spider, like Charlotte's web. A spider dropped out of the ceiling, like, from the ceiling. And then we all just started laughing. There was nothing we could do. It was terrible.

[C]

Speaking of Charlotte, that's your main boss. How has she changed in the time that you've been working with her?

[B]

Oh, boy. That's hard to say. I think we've all just kind of grown. I don't Want to say grown up, but we've experienced just a lot together. Charlotte's very smart, as y' all know, very smooth, and she. She guides. I mean, she wears a lot of hats, leads a lot of people. She's demanding in a good way. I respect that. So. But we. The fun times. The best time I have with Charlotte is when we start going back and reflecting on Thanksgiving Day halftimes. And that's when we work the closest, just throughout a whole season. And there's so many live entertainment moments that I've told her and I've said, I'm going to do it and I need to do it. Is just write a T shirt of all the things Charlotte has said in the middle of a Thanksgiving Day halftime. Shocking things or no crazy things. Like. I know. I know y' all have had fun with our beloved creed halftime.

[D]

For its time.

[A]

It was. It was amazing. It was.

[B]

It's still. It just. It's the gift that keeps on giving. But we had, of course, Scott Stapp in the band. We had a boys choir from Memphis. We had silk flyers, we had dancers, and we were going to do a dove release at the end of the show. And we practice everything. I'm. I am a huge preparation and practice kind of person. And we did everything except we couldn't practice pyro and birds.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Before the show, because the birds were brought in and they let out of a box and apparently they go fly somewhere and then they get received somewhere else.

[A]

Yeah, they go home somehow.

[B]

They go home somewhere. Well, these birds went home, but to a different home. When. At the end of the show when we did pyro, some of the birds met their maker. And, you know, that's a live show. And we had seconds to get the staging and everything rolled off the field. And I remember, I'll never forget, Charlotte was looking across the field at me, and she just screamed. She goes, if you see a dead bird, pick it up.

[A]

Take it to dad Swede. He'll put it in the turducken. It'll be great.

[B]

So we were having to help clear the field.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

I had never heard that.

[D]

You remember the Shania Twain halftime when George was front row?

[C]

No, that was. I thought that was a different concert.

[B]

It was. It was a show at the stadium.

[D]

But it was a post game.

[A]

It was a post game show. And that was on CMT as well later. And all you could see was my big pumpkin head right in front of the stage, because that was back when I was doing PA and, yeah, I got to Stay for the concert.

[C]

It was very embarrassing for the stage. It was very.

[A]

We're still not.

[D]

It was all young girls and Big George. They're watching Choice.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

It was great.

[B]

We can all fan girl over Schnau, Twain.

[A]

Absolutely. Have any of those guests ever made you like. Oh, my gosh. I can't believe we're doing a choreographed dance around who? Dolly Parton? Was that intimidating in any way?

[B]

No, Dolly. Dolly was adorable and she's. She's everything you want her to be. She's just is cute and prepared and she's a perfectionist, too. And her team around her is the same way. My breathless moment was performing with Queen. That's where I just lost. Yeah, Queen for sure.

[A]

And Casey Musgraves, too. That was a pretty cool moment.

[B]

I know you like Casey Musgraves. She's awesome.

[C]

He's big into her.

[A]

She's so good.

[C]

He forgives her of a lot.

[A]

I know. I really do think she's an incredible singer songwriter.

[B]

She is a brilliant singer songwriter. She's from East Texas, so I kind of. I knew her from East Texas. She's beautiful. But her songwriting is. I mean, she's a poet. She truly is.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

But Queen, when. Even when we pulled up here, it was at American Airlines and I was obsessed with Bohemian Rhapsody. Just obsessed. Everything. Freddie Mercury, I just could not. I can't consume enough Queen. And when we pulled down the tunnel and I started just seeing their trunks, the equipment trunks that said Queen, I started losing it. I'm like, okay, I'm in charge. I've got to keep my. I got to keep it together. And when we got there, Roger Taylor and Brian May walked out, and then we were rehearsing with them and wow, Judy and I were kind of having this. We had. Well, first of all, it happened like, in a week when it really was going to come to fruition, but we. We had to choreograph. And then I saw these huge, big, cascading staircases, and I was like, can we dance on those staircases? Like, I'd. I'd bring the whole squad. We had to study their show online because we'd never seen the show live. And it was new. It was a new tour. And so they. They had an idea of what they wanted. And I was like, can we just show you what we want to do and then we'll change anything you want? They're like, well, what do you. What are you going to do at the end?

[C]

And we did.

[B]

We did Fat Bottom Girls and They I wanted to do Don't Stop me Now. And then they came back and said, would you do Fat Bottom Girls? We think it's kind of cheeky. And so then I had to run that through every scenario of how will we get criticized over this? We might. We could. But anyway, we did it. We showed them. And then Brian May was real. He's exactly like you would think. He is a scientist. He. He is so specific with his music. And he brought out his guitar that I recognized from the movie and had always heard about. And Judy was wanting to do one thing and the, the music drops and he basically wanted the cheerleader to freeze. And Judy was kind of dancing through it. And he goes, shall I play it for you? And I'm like, yes. So I've got this. My favorite picture of my career is Brian May. Me and Judy are looking at each other like, what are we gonna do?

[A]

What's happening?

[B]

And him saying, shall I play it for you?

[D]

Wow.

[B]

I still get breathless thinking about.

[A]

Hi.

[B]

I'm here to pick up my son, Milo. There's no Milo here. Who picked up my son from school? Streaming only on Peacock. I'm gonna need the name of everyone.

[D]

That could have a connection.

[C]

You don't understand.

[B]

It was just the five of us. So this was all planned. What are you gonna do? I will do whatever it takes to get my son back.

[D]

I honestly didn't see this coming.

[C]

These nice people killing each other. All her fault. A new series, streaming now only on Peacock.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[D]

Well, your schedule is amazing. The schedule of the cheerleaders, all the events that you do. Most people watch the games and they think the cheerleaders come to the games and then that's it. But man, it is non stop, it seems like for you. And it's not just with things to do around here. It's kind of nonstop with things to do around the world, isn't it?

[B]

It is just. For example, last week we're in New York City doing the Kelly Ripa Kelly and Mark live. This week we're getting ready for. We're gonna be filming a Music video with an undisclaimed artist, undisclosed artist next week. So we're getting ready for that. We're getting ready for our live Christmas show. We now have a live Christmas show out at the Star, and then, of course, our Thanksgiving Day show, and then farther and farther ahead. I'm already working on a. We do a live stage tour now in May, and then we'll do another USO tour in April.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

And we always keep that schedule wide open for playoff games.

[A]

And you never know.

[D]

You never know.

[A]

So it. What is your typical day? And we get that question sometimes. And I know it changes by the day, but do you have a lot of 12, 14 hour days?

[B]

I do, yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I'm kind of a night owl too. I hate it, but I'll be.

[A]

You take your work home?

[B]

I do, Yeah. I have to. Honestly, I don't really even get to see emails until I'm home. And then I'll be twisted in bed and looking at emails, and then it gets in my head. So I try to come up with all kinds of things to unwind.

[A]

How about that, Gordo? 12 hour days.

[C]

Yeah. Not interested. Not interested.

[B]

I know you guys. Y' all shaved an hour off your show.

[C]

Hour and a half.

[B]

Oh, I needed that. 9 to 10. I needed that as a listener.

[C]

Okay, so outside of Joan's family members, are you, like, the longest running employee up there now?

[B]

Me, Judy used to be Kathy Coleman in the mailroom. Probably one of three, maybe.

[D]

That's pretty amazing.

[C]

That's a long time of navigating the Joneses.

[B]

I've been in the saddle with the Joneses for a long time.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Was Judy named choreographer of the year? You were named director. Has she been at it for 40 years?

[C]

She was there right before I thought.

[B]

Right. So Judy was the assistant choreographer, and then when I became director, I named Judy as head choreographer.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And we're like, y'. All. I mean, y' all understand long relationships and loyalty and just being able to read each other's mind. Judy and I can finish each other's sentences. I can look at her across the table. And like that Brian May moment I was describing, we were, like, looking at each other like, what are we gonna do? We don't know the song well enough. But anyway, yeah, she's great.

[C]

So you're on board with obviously, all these series that have happened with the Cowboys cheerleaders. Right? Despite your initial reluctance with the Netflix thing because it kind of rubbed up against your control freaky or perfectionist nature. Is there in any way that you feel like the Cowboy cheerleaders are underutilized.

[B]

Underutilized. Not now. I mean, no.

[C]

And are the Cowboy cheerleaders run as a separate company than the Dallas Cowboys now?

[B]

We're a department. I mean, from a business standpoint, we are, we are a part of the Dallas Cowboys football club. Always have been.

[A]

One of the things that the Netflix series featured was the pay. And I know that's uncomfortable, but it's, it's interesting because I always thought it was a full time job from back when, when you were a cheerleader. How did you navigate through that with your position now, knowing that, hey, this needs to happen. But at the same time, what rate do you go at and how, how tricky was that for you?

[B]

I can't say it was tricky. It was. I think it, it's the right place. It's where we should be. And the role of the cheerleaders has grown even from when I cheered in the 80s. We did do. Was it back then 10, did we have 10 home games or maybe eight.

[A]

But back then you had eight, 16 games. Yeah.

[D]

And two preseason.

[A]

Two preseason, yeah.

[B]

We should have been paid more just for the heat in Texas stadium.

[A]

No doubt.

[B]

But the girls, you know, they are definitely professional dancers. They're spoken ambassadors, they're stars of their own TV show published in calendars so rightfully so. I'm happy that they're happy. And it's, you know, it's, it's, it's win, win now.

[A]

Yeah. And you're a huge part of the game presentation. There are people that go to AT&T Stadium, they want to see the game. But part of that is, is y', all, it's, it's thunderstruck now. And it's just the, the whole presentation is a part of why they paid that money for the ticket. And there's a lot of tickets that cost a lot of money. So.

[B]

Yes, there are. I said in on a survey, the NFL sends auditors to watch everything at every game from parking attendance to game day entertainment to concessions. And they made a comment and I don't recall the number, but there was a number that they specifically called out. It was the cheerleaders alumni halftime. And if you haven't seen it or you know, some former cheerleaders, they all come together. It's a beautiful show. It's across all decades of the music. So the Girls from the 70s Dance to 70s Music, 80s, 80s and so on and so forth. But this one stat that they mentioned was that for first time game single. First time single Game ticket purchasers. There's a substantial. There's a nice number that said they came just to see the cheerleaders.

[D]

I believe it.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I believe that's such a big part of the brand. I mean, it's.

[C]

It seems like it's a bigger brand than the Cowboys even are to the NFL now, because there's other successful teams that have been successful since the Cowboys have won Super Bowls. But as far as cheering squads, is there anybody that has a higher profile than the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders? Maybe Laker girls would be another.

[B]

Maybe back in the 80s.

[A]

They don't even know.

[C]

Or they may not even still have Laker girls anymore.

[B]

They do.

[C]

They do.

[D]

They do.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

But they're not close to the brand of the Cowboys cheerleaders.

[B]

TV real estate is. Is exponentially. Just throws you into a new world.

[D]

Yes. You know, I said to these guys a little while ago, we were talking about this podcast and talking to you, I said, the thing that has jumped out at me the most about the Netflix series, just watching these first two episodes, and I think I've always. Seasons. I've always known this, but it really drives it home. What athletes the girls are. I mean, they are incredible athletes and how hard they have to push their bodies, not just through the tryouts, but through the season. It's really amazing when you see what they do and what. What a physical toll it takes.

[B]

The show does. I mean, they were even interviewing some of our former cheerleaders that cheered with me that said, oh, I've had seven surgeries. Well, you're 60 years old and you've been running marathons. That's not fair. But, yeah, no, it's. I mean, it is. They're dancers. Dancers love to dance, just like athletes. So I don't think when you're. When you're in it and the music's playing, I don't think you realize it. But the fatigue. Fatigue mixed with the level of dance that they do can take its toll if they're not careful. Fortunately, knock on whatever this is, there's no wood around. We haven't had any injuries this season, so let's.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But they're talented in the way that a gymnast is talented. It's that kind of athleticism.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean, that is why I'm proud of the show. Shows that you're not gonna see the technicians that they are as dancers in cowboy boots on turf. But when you see their solos and their contemporary and lyrical and what they've trained for all their lives in A stage show. Then you can really see it.

[A]

When you were cheering, did you get a guest spot on? I remember the Love Boat. The cheerleaders went on the Love Boat. I don't know if that was.

[B]

I was pre.

[A]

Me.

[B]

Yeah. I think my biggest. I think my biggest moment was being at the front of the Jerry Lewis telethon, and we did our 10 minute Michael Jackson medley.

[C]

Okay, when's the last time you watched that?

[B]

Well, it came across my feed a couple days ago, so that's why it's on my mind about a couple days ago. But it's. It's. It's.

[C]

And did you have notes?

[B]

In watching it for myself, yeah.

[C]

Yeah, so. And obviously, one thing in watching the series, like Craig, I was struck by just, wow, these girls go through so much. And the other thing that I was struck by was the eye that you and Judy have. I mean, y' all watching these girls dance. And I'm noticing none of the things.

[A]

Looks good to me.

[C]

Yeah, she looks tired. I'm like, I don't see that at all. I mean, the amount of precision that your eye has gained over the years to see what you see. So you obviously are good at having notes for other people when you watch the show, as George was saying, like, what notes do you have for your. Do you ever think to yourself, you know, I didn't handle this right? Is there things that you work on handling better?

[B]

I do. I did. After the first year of Netflix, we were having kind of mid year, end of year meetings, and I'm meeting with Victoria Collina, who's actually a personal. Her mother's a personal friend of mine, and she's a personal friend of my daughters. And, well, our whole family.

[A]

And I coached her brother in youth baseball.

[B]

Tanner or Tristan?

[A]

Tanner.

[C]

Oh, how about that?

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Yeah. But I'm sorry I interrupted you.

[C]

Back to the podcast.

[A]

We'll go back to the podcast now. Jerk.

[B]

So. So when I.

[C]

When I was having this. She's our guest.

[A]

I'm sorry, you're in the middle of this. Yeah, you're right in the middle of this thing again.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But when I was having this conversation with her and we. We were actually talking about some serious things, like, hey, I need you to clock your hours, and I need you to do this. Some housekeeping stuff. And then when we started talking about some dance notes, she was genuinely shocked. And I was shocked that she was shocked. And I was like, you know, this had. You haven't had your best games this year. And here's the Notes and yada, yada, yada. And so when I saw it back and watched it back, I thought, man, I can't let a whole year go by with these dancers that need feedback and not tell them. I don't want anybody to be surprised. That's not doing anybody any good. So then that moment in time was when I realized I could do a better job of communicating to them sooner and be honest with them and also give them more positive feedback more frequently. So that was one of my takeaways from season one.

[A]

I think the alumni thing is cool when players come back and the cheerleaders come back. And do you still have good relationships and relationships with those who cheered maybe 10, 15 years ago?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Stay in touch.

[B]

Oh, I have great relationships with the former cheerleaders. Every year we get together, there's two groups. One of them, y' all probably know there's two groups that they have separate parties after all the rehearsals. And I'll get about a midnight kind of little. We'll call it a tipsy call.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

And hey, they're all Kelly. Hey, Kelly. And they're all FaceTime now. I have great relationships. They're former cheerleaders.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

That's. That's probably the. I mean, that's kind of the best part. We have more fun when they're gone. Then it's kind of like it's not the school teacher and the student role.

[C]

It's. Yeah, well, being a boss all those years, you had to have some that stepped away, disliking you, probably, but you. But you're not aware of that. You run a very different organization because you have such a personal relationship with everybody who works for you. And I would think, like, that sounds like a nightmare to me. Managing people's emotions is one of the most difficult things to do.

[B]

Well, that's very true. You're right. And I'm. I take it seriously and I do the best I can, but you're right, the emotion and the emotions are very important. They're, you know, they're young. I. I just kind of lean on what I learned from some of my educators, and I hope I'm a good one for them.

[D]

There's been a rule, I think, since the beginning that the cheerleaders and players shall not fraternize. Has that been difficult to police over the years? Have you had to step in a few times or does that never occur?

[B]

Yes. Let's see. Let me go in order.

[D]

Has that been difficult to police?

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[C]

It's still in effect. Right. The rule's still there?

[B]

Kinda.

[D]

Oh, just kinda?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

It's. How much you want to police it? Honestly, that was a Tom Landry rule.

[D]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Tom Landry's the one that.

[D]

I didn't know that.

[A]

He wasn't really on board with the cheerleaders at the start, was he?

[B]

Tom Landry didn't want any distractions.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Started that rule.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Good Christian man. Tom Landry.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And Barry Switzer, also a very strong, strongly moral. Doesn't like partying between anybody either. So I'm assuming it kept going.

[A]

There's Jimmy in there, remember?

[B]

I'll let y' all do the editorial on that.

[C]

But if you.

[D]

If you find out that someone. That a player and a cheerleader are dating today, do you do anything about that?

[B]

I haven't found out, so I haven't needed to.

[C]

But is. Is it in the code of conduct or is it just like an unwritten rule? Like, is it in what the girls agree to? Women, I should say.

[D]

Yes, please.

[B]

It's unwritten.

[C]

Unwritten. Okay, so it's basically up to you, I would think. Right.

[B]

Honestly, I just. I've got more things. I. That's.

[C]

It's not a problem.

[B]

It's not a problem. Yeah.

[C]

Right. Don't worry about it.

[A]

Yeah, it's always. Yeah. It's just something that's been talked about.

[B]

Oh, gosh, it's. I mean, yeah, it's. It's kind of funny because everybody out of everything about the Dallas Cowboys chillers, that seems to be the most fascinating to them.

[D]

Really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I guess it's because of the model of high school and college, you know, the. The football player and the cheerleader.

[C]

I guess we're always trying to ship them.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's the. Maybe that's the thing.

[C]

But the breaking news here is that's not really a rule. It's not really a rule. Right.

[A]

It's not, but it is.

[C]

You don't have anything against it.

[D]

It is, but it's not.

[C]

Well, go ahead, Gordon. It is. It is, but it's not. We're certainly doing it.

[A]

Yeah. Do you have much interaction with Jerry?

[B]

I'm still. Hang on. I gotta get. Please, Gordon, please. Keep going.

[A]

Y' all see each other much?

[C]

I'll call you up tonight when I'm tipsy and talk. Jerry.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

You and Charlotte work together a lot, but do you have. Do you see Jerry that much?

[B]

Not as much as I used to. I. I just. Not as much as they used to. Even literally by the design of our building and just by the busy nature of everybody. Our dance studio is on one side of the building. We practice at AT&T Stadium. We practice at the Star practice at Ford Center. But to. To answer your question, simply not as much as I used to and not as much as I'd like to.

[A]

Is the Star an awesome place to call home?

[B]

It is, yeah.

[A]

It looks great.

[B]

It's beautiful. I love Valley Ranch equally. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Jerry doesn't have tours that are coming through the cheerleaders locker room or anything like that, like he does the football players.

[B]

No, not at the Star, okay? At the stadium, the tours do include the cheerleader locker room. In fact, I'm told it's really one of the highlights of the tours. Not when we're there, but during specific hours during the day.

[A]

Yeah, I bet it is.

[C]

Well, Jerry needs to have hologram cheerleaders walking around the locker room. Isn't there a hologram Jerry?

[B]

That there is.

[C]

That is at the stadium, right?

[B]

It's a. The star. It's in our headquarters.

[C]

Hologram Jerry. It's him. The actual hologram. He's the actual hologram.

[B]

Oh, here we go. George, have you heard of. I mean, Gordon. Have you heard about Tilly, the actress? Oh, yeah.

[A]

We talked about her on the last episode.

[D]

I follow her on Instagram.

[B]

That is so creepy.

[C]

He's creeping on her.

[A]

See, that's the thing we were talking about. That's. These guys think we're there in like five years.

[C]

That.

[A]

That's. That's going to be Gordon's.

[C]

Yes. Girlfriend. I think in five years. Hologram Kelly Finglass do that too.

[B]

Now, AI, there's. There's pictures now, this is the truth. There's pictures that people are like, on the sidelines with the cheerleaders. There's been news articles, tragic news articles about me. Judy, that's.

[C]

I just read the one about you this morning. I was like, do a little research for Kelly coming in here and read all about the plane crash.

[B]

Oh, gosh.

[C]

That you were in.

[D]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Yeah. There's all these fake articles out there. I'm sure there's some about us. About us, however we tragically died. Yeah, it was just junk news websites.

[B]

That one hit me like a freight train because my girlfriend in Lindell called me and then she said, what do I tell everybody about this news story? It was the story you're mentioning. And I'm like, just because she's a schoolteacher. I said, tell them it's not true. This is a Perfect example of showing how news you can't believe everything you read. And she was worried about my parents hearing this. Well, my parents aren't on Instagram, so they're not going to hear it. That my parents don't even get Netflix. So they still haven't seen the show?

[A]

They haven't watched it yet.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

Not Netflix. My daddy doesn't like smart tv.

[C]

I can understand Hulu.

[B]

He doesn't understand it.

[D]

Okay. Yeah, Netflix hadn't made it to Lindale.

[B]

Oh, Netflix is there. So is Amazon, but just not their house. Pat McGonagall does not. What? He knows his channels and he likes normal broadcast stations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't know if they'll ever see me on this one.

[C]

That's so Irish sounding.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[C]

Do you have a family that still lives in Ireland that you know about?

[B]

Not that I know about, but I want to. I've never done the ancestry stuff and I kind of want to, and then I kind of don't, but I should.

[C]

Why? You don't want to find out that you're related to.

[B]

No, I'm okay with that.

[C]

Jack the Ripper or something?

[B]

No, I'm okay with it. You are.

[C]

You would like to be related to an Iris.

[A]

Don't treat Kelly like that. Treat her like you treat me.

[B]

Gordon, have you done it?

[C]

I've traced my ancestry, yes.

[B]

Traced. But have you done DNA ancestry?

[C]

No, I haven't done that.

[A]

I'm a little suspect of that because.

[C]

I think that that's a.

[B]

Then you find out your real surprises.

[C]

Yeah, they're DNA farming and I think that they're going to use my DNA to sprinkle at crime scenes if I send in my DNA to some.

[B]

Well, it's the crime stuff that does kind of freak me out. Not for. I know how many babies I've had and I think I know how many siblings I have. Those crime databases are kind of scary, so. And then just information, period.

[A]

Do you try to stay offline? Speaking of offline kind of reason? Yeah, I can, but. And yet, do you monitor online to see what your crew's up to?

[B]

I don't. I have enough people that tell me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I like, I. I don't read Reddit because that's a place where the cheerleaders get their hearts broken. And I've seen great, great women on our team just literally be brought to tears over something stupid somebody has said on Reddit. So I'm kind of anti. That's kind of my platform, and that's.

[A]

Something new that you didn't have to deal with social media. Could you imagine that when you were 19, 20 years old and trying to be a cheerleader, a student, and having to deal with that?

[B]

I really can't. I think it's bad for. I really do think it's bad for mental health. I've got this one little thing I preach to the girl. If our chillers, they can't even like a post, because if you like the wrong post, that's. That's.

[D]

You'll be canceled.

[B]

Yeah. So I tell them, if it's not true, if it's not kind, and if it's not helpful, don't post it, don't like it, don't. I don't know how sustainable. I don't know how long this will go, but that is a whole new part of people's insecurities that I don't think is healthy.

[D]

I agree.

[C]

And the girls have gotten in trouble, I'm assuming, for things they posted, things they've liked and everything that was in the series, wasn't it at one point? Maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly, but. But, yeah, monitoring their social media posts that they do themselves.

[D]

And I know in season two, they talked about how some of the girls were quitting their jobs and becoming influencers because they had gained so many followers being cheerleaders.

[B]

They have. And part of that, you know, is really great. They're, you know, if it's the right. If it's the right product or the right scenario, it's obviously very flexible time. It's very lucrative right now. Their visibility and all their hard work can kind of pay off. But there's a lot of critics out there, too. I mean, y' all know that.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

We didn't grow up with that. You used to see people at school and you'd go home, you might have a phone call. I don't. I don't. I don't like it. And I've seen what it does to the girls. I've seen my cheerleaders in tears, superstar cheerleaders, great people in tears over something somebody's saying on Reddit. So I don't like it, but I. Hopefully it'll have a. You know, on the other hand, I'm on Instagram and I have. I'll follow, like, things that are motivational or inspirational or funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I just, in general, don't like the toxicity of some conversations. This episode is brought to you by Nespresso Gift Magical Mornings with Nespresso Vertuo Pop Compact and stylish Vertuo pop is made to meet every morning coffee craving. From espresso to coffee, hot or iced at the click of a button. And celebrate the season with nespresso's limited edition coffee flavors. Sweet almond and hibiscus, cinnamon and candied tamarind and festive double espresso Magic in the making shop the holiday gift collection [e-mail] meet the computer you can talk to with Copilot on Windows. Working, creating and collaborating is as easy as talking. Got writer's block? Share your screen with Copilot vision to help spark inspiration and use Copilot voice to have a conversation and brainstorm ideas. Or maybe you need some tech help with Copilot vision. Copilot sees what you see. Let copilot talk you through step by step guidance so you can master new apps, games and skills faster. Try [e-mail] copilot.

[D]

You mentioned Lindale. For our international listeners who don't know where Lindale is. Small town, East Texas. What was it like growing up in Lindale?

[B]

Very small town. A four way stop. I rode a yellow school bus to school. We had a church on each of the four corners. Everybody was at the football game on Friday nights. Everybody was at church on Sundays. It was a dry town. So when you went to a restaurant, it's either sweet tea or unsweet tea. It's beautiful countryside and most of the kids parents worked at Tyler Pipe or were farmers. I tried desperately just to fit in because we. We lived at Hideaway Lake, which was actually a golf community. So I kind of had to try to fit into. I couldn't be country more agricultural. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I had to. We had to ride trail rides. And that was like, oh my God, I gotta do a trail ride because I was scared of horses. But it was, it was beautiful. I'm very, very. I just love Linda. I love east Texas.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Are you the star of your high school reunions?

[B]

Well, you know, I have a rivalry, a good, healthy rivalry with Miranda Lambert.

[A]

I was about to bring up Miranda.

[B]

Yeah, she's from Lindell too. So there. She has billboards, but I tease her. My picture hung in catfish heaven first.

[A]

Okay, well, you got it. You got it.

[B]

We both have a trophy case literally side by side in our high school.

[A]

Have you all become friends?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's cool. And Casey's not too far from there, right?

[B]

Casey's 12 miles down the street in Golden.

[C]

Quit bringing up Casey.

[A]

Kelly's a big friend fan. We have that.

[B]

George. I'll go. I'll Go as far as you want with Casey Musgraves. I couldn't agree with you more.

[A]

Okay, I'll go as far as. What's your favorite Casey Musgrave?

[B]

What's your favorite Casey Musgrave song? Probably Merry Go Round, which describes Lindell and Minneola Tutti.

[A]

I bet. I thought about that.

[D]

That.

[A]

I bet she was writing about small town Texas.

[C]

What's the story of a Casey Musgraves on the tour bus? What was that?

[A]

You. Stop talking. Kelly and I are having a Casey moment.

[C]

Remember when she had the bathroom.

[A]

No.

[C]

Stop it.

[A]

Stop bringing that up. Stop bringing that up. She's had a brilliant career and doesn't need to be reduced to that. What did you think you were going to be when you were growing up in Lindale?

[B]

What did I think? I. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[C]

I'm sorry. George. George. Almost George just pulled us to her.

[A]

Talking to her guest. Stop it.

[B]

You know, every little girl wants to be Miss America. Back then, Phyllis George was another North Texas girl. That's right. I kind of wanted to be a veterinarian because I loved animals.

[C]

Except horses.

[B]

Except horses.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Small animal.

[A]

Small animal.

[C]

There you go.

[B]

And then I want. Then when Flash Dance came out, I want to be a dancer.

[C]

Oh, we were just talking about that recently. George, your review of that movie.

[A]

No, that was. Flashdance was fine.

[C]

It was that one, too. You bagged on Flashdance and Footloose.

[A]

Footloose is one of the worst movies.

[B]

No house. See, that's kind of how Linda, when he.

[A]

When he mad dances, you know, and he's smoking a cigarette, that's just like one of the worst scenes in movie history. But. But if you like dancing, though, and I'm sure that inspired you.

[B]

Flashdance inspired me. And the song that was played when I tried out for Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders.

[C]

Was Maniac Raining Men.

[B]

No. Okay. I sang Raining Men.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Maniac was in my solo, but my improv, when they just needle drop, was Footloose.

[D]

Really? Oh, gosh.

[A]

Okay. Well, I'm sorry I said all that, so I feel bad now. That was your inspiration. Was that it. Was that a TCU where you thought, okay, I can do this?

[B]

Okay, absolutely.

[D]

Were you middle school, high school cheerleader?

[B]

I was flute, piccolo, twirler, and drum major.

[D]

Oh, drum major. That's right. So you'd never cheered until Cowboys cheerleaders?

[B]

Correct.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

Man. Did you ever do the crazy drum major thing where they go to the midfield and, like, do the big back bend or anything?

[B]

Or that's a different style drum major, but yeah, George, that's more of a show band. We were a military precision band, like.

[D]

Texas A and M. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yes, I was in front of the band and I carried a baton and I blew the whistles and directed the band for all of our maneuvers.

[C]

And how often do you still play the piccolo?

[B]

My flute and piccolo were at my mom's house with my little drum major boots, so I don't. But I'd like to.

[C]

Do you think you can still.

[B]

I played Stairway to Heaven in church on.

[C]

On a piccolo flute.

[B]

The flute. Me and my friend David, he played guitar and I played flute, and we.

[A]

Played Stairway to Heaven and Stairway to Heaven.

[B]

We didn't know.

[A]

Ok. Was that for a Sunday service yes sir thing or.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

That's great. I think you need to break it back out and start playing again.

[C]

Can you play guitar?

[B]

I know I would love to. I wish. Excuse me. I wish I had learned piano or guitar.

[C]

Still time. There's still time. How old are you? 39.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

I. I thanked you at the time and I wanted to thank you again, because four years or so when our daughter was born, Kelly very sweetly sent a little cowboys cheerleader care pack for Sabrina. And it had pom poms in it, by the way. Are they pom poms or pom pons?

[B]

Technically, it's a pom pom.

[D]

Oh, pom pon. Okay, so.

[B]

But everybody says pom poms, so just to keep it easy, I say poms.

[D]

Okay. Yeah.

[C]

Smart.

[D]

The little package had had cowboy cheerleader poms in it. And the other day she came home from her preschool and they had had a pep rally at the preschool. And the first thing she wanted to do when she got home was get her cowboy cheerleaders palms and do the little dance that she saw the older cheerleaders do. So in 15 years, you may have somebody trying out something.

[C]

Will you be doing it in 15 years?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

You thought.

[A]

See, we're starting to get that question, too.

[B]

I know, I know. How do you take that? Y' all are just like me. I bet people ask you all the time, when are y' all gon retire?

[D]

All the time.

[A]

They're hoping.

[C]

You know what I'm seeing here? It's a job switch. I'm seeing, okay from radio and podcasting is being director of cheerleaders. And you come over and do our job, you and Judy.

[B]

That sounds interesting.

[D]

How terrible would we be at her job?

[A]

You could do our job there's no way we could do your job.

[D]

No way.

[A]

No. We'd have to get outside, help the girls. Yeah. They wouldn't want to work with us. It'd be terrible.

[B]

I did want to ask y', all, like, as much as you talk on the radio all morning, is the podcast, do you still have enough juice?

[A]

No.

[B]

So why a podcast?

[C]

Well, we've had plenty of juice talking to you today. No.

[D]

Yeah, you have.

[B]

But what's the difference? Is it the commercial breaks and the formatting and this just gives you time?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like on radio, we couldn't have this conversation with you because we'd only have six minutes with you, let's say. But here we can do long form and talk to you about the way you pronounce pom poms and all that sort of thing.

[B]

Yeah, it's been different robots.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, robots and the whole thing.

[D]

We love both. Radio's very. It's live and there's a lot of energy to it. And podcasts more relaxing and, you know, you can take a whole hour with somebody.

[C]

It's very intimate. Podcasting is very intimate. That's why I'm shirtless.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah, sorry about that. I told him not to do it, but he insisted it was a choice.

[B]

More restrictions or, I'm sorry, less restrictions that you would normally have on radio, per se.

[C]

There's less restrictions? Yeah. Like you can say the F word.

[A]

Timing, language.

[C]

Can we say the F word? Go ahead.

[B]

I can't.

[C]

Why? Because she's so.

[A]

I'm not, that's why.

[B]

But I will say Judy dropped her first in her career F bomb at practice last week because we were up to here with stress and we found out at the last. I mean, I'm serious. We're in overload coming from New York City to this, to this, to this, to this. And we didn't know, but this is our world. It's going to sound kind of silly for y', all, but it was for the America, for the national anthem, if the flag is a certain size 30 yard line flag or a 40 yard line flag, that changes where the cheerleaders formations are. Well, we found out probably at 11 o' clock at night, before we're about to call it a night and we'll be at the game, that it was the full field flag, which means we have to reconfigure everything. And that's the first time. It's just really. Honestly, Judy. Judy's so proper. That's. I'm a little saltier than that. But she Then she apologized to the squad. I'm like.

[A]

Were the Netflix cameras rolling?

[B]

No, I wish they had been.

[A]

How would you handle that? Have you ever gone to him, say, hey, could you not put the F bomb in there?

[B]

Or, no, we can't.

[A]

You can't.

[B]

Actually, that would be. That'd be the best trailer of the centuries. Judy doing that. Don't y' all have a sound? Is it called a sound drop?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's Judy screaming. Oh.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Oh, yeah. That's Judy.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

It is, yeah. St. Julie.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, that's funny. I never knew that was her.

[B]

Yeah, I think that was. If I'm not crazy. I feel like that was from Hard Knocks, which would have been back in.

[A]

I think it was. Yeah, 2001 ish. Dave Campo era. I think it was.

[C]

So is there. There's going to be a third season of America's Sweethearts? Is there any end in sight? Or have they only signed up for 3? 5?

[B]

That's a great question. Every one of these TV experiences I've had is you have to wait to the next year to be picked up.

[C]

Oh, I see.

[B]

So it's this dog and pony show there, but it's real. I mean, they go down to the wire. It's interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So if you had your druthers.

[B]

I've had my druthers. Where does the word druthers come from?

[C]

I don't know. I was just thinking the exact same thing. What the hell is the Brothers Drugstore?

[B]

But it's got Mississippi or Arkansas in it somewhere.

[C]

Because I think it's unusual that the three of us all are in agreement here. The Musers is like, we're not so interested in doing a TV portion of this of our radio show or of our podcast or whatever. You know, it's like, focus on one thing at a time, you doing these TV shows. Is there any part of you that thinks, I don't want cameras and I don't want a TV show, I just want to do this job? Or is it now impossible to even separate in your mind, think about doing this job without there being some extra element of kick it up, glitzy coverage of what you're doing?

[B]

I love the simple nights. I definitely love the simple nights and rehearsals without cameras. It does elevate something. I don't. I can't put my finger on it, but it does. So I like the simple nights or look forward to those. But I will say, like, after Covid and then there was a year where we had no cameras, it did feel less.

[C]

Amped up, urgent, and yeah, it.

[B]

Felt a little quiet, a little flat, less lively. So if you, once you get used to walking into the bright lights and all the attention, I mean, some of the. Well, all the girls now say, oh, I used to watch you when I was a little girl. I've watched you my whole life. And it just baffles me that, yeah, we've been in the television business that.

[A]

Long, back to the retirement. How about when, you know, you know, that's what we find ourselves saying.

[B]

Yeah, no, I agree with that.

[A]

We're not there yet, but we, we know. We will know.

[B]

I agree with that.

[A]

Yeah, but that's still a ways off, right?

[B]

I think so. I mean, there's, there is a fatigue level, for sure. I've raised my kids. The hardest part was when they were young. That was the hardest part. When I'm at rehearsals at night and I come home and just see my kids already asleep. I don't even like to think about that. Now my kids are grown and I'm cool every now and then, rarely. But that was the harder time. Now I'm an empty nester and the girls are my kids again. So that's been great. If y'.

[C]

All.

[B]

Oh, this may be a burning question I'm not supposed to ask, but if y' all do, say the musers are out. Are y' all doing that as a group or are you doing it individually?

[C]

We haven't even allowed ourselves to cross that mental barrier.

[B]

It is a mental thing. I can't imagine doing my job without Judy. Right, yeah.

[C]

So if you didn't do this job, what is this? What. What do you want to do that this job is preventing you from doing in your life?

[B]

Cooking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm being sarcastic.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Kind of thing.

[C]

I was getting excited. A woman who likes to cook. Wow.

[B]

I do like to cook when I can, but I had a whole meltdown last Halloween over chili. It's, it's. It'd take a whole episode to talk about my chili meltdown. But any. Anybody like me feels guilty about not having big home cooked meals.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so the question. What was your question, Gordon?

[C]

I don't even remember.

[A]

Something else you remember. This job is keeping you from travel or traveling. Yeah.

[C]

Where do you want to go?

[B]

I want to go to Africa.

[C]

Ever been? Never?

[B]

No. I mean, I've been all over the world, but I mean, I mean, like safari. I'd like to see that. I've never been to Ireland.

[A]

That's great. I went this last summer. It Was awesome.

[B]

So, yeah, I don't have a schedule where I can even try to plan a trip. Last year, my biggest trip, and it was. It. I mean, I literally was brought to tears. My kids. Oh, this is a long story. Do you guys watch Christopher Guest?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Movies. Okay. It's my favorite.

[D]

He's great.

[B]

Okay. So Best in Show is my favorite movie.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

And my kids, for my birthday, had wrapped up, and I opened it up, and it was a busy bee. And if you know the show, it's this, the bee that belonged to the anxious couple with the anxious dog. So Ryan and Samantha. Ryan didn't think I'd get it, but when they. They basically gave me tickets to the Westminster in New York.

[D]

Oh, that's great.

[B]

The dog show. And so me and my kids, we flew to New York, we went to the dog show. And when I went in, I mean, I literally started crying when I saw it in person. It's so. It's so regal with the dogs, but it's also so comical if you appreciate Best in Show, the trainers, the judges are in full beaded gowns. The trainers are spritzing their dogs backstage. It is such a comedy. It's just. It's brilliant. And so that. That was my big trip last year, was to go to New York, to Westminster with my kids.

[A]

Oh, that's great.

[C]

So how much time off you get a year? How many weeks?

[B]

I can barely find time off.

[A]

Yeah. You need more vacay.

[B]

I know I do. I need. I need some refresh and reboot time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So music and movie question. Do you have y' all seen Spinal Tap?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

I haven't seen the second one.

[C]

I watched the second one. And what was your take on it?

[B]

Because it's divided people loved it.

[C]

I thought it was fun.

[B]

It was better than the first one.

[A]

I can't wait to see.

[D]

Wow. Really?

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

I love Spinal Tap.

[B]

The cameo of Elton John sitting in and Paul McCartney.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Really? They get them?

[B]

Yeah, they're in there. And I won't give it away, but there's one scene where Elton John comes in and the guys are. They're doing a session and they're. And they're scraggly hair. They're in skinny, scrawny leather. Just, you know, old rock star stuff. And Elton John comes in and he turns to me, he goes, it's just too much piano. Too much piano. And I'm like, I loved it. Did you like it? I've watched it. I did, twice.

[C]

No, I liked it. I haven't watched it twice, but I liked it.

[A]

Yeah, I can't wait to see it.

[B]

What's your multiple watch movie?

[D]

For me, it's Planes, Trains and Automobiles every Thanksgiving. It's my favorite comedy of all time. Steve Martin, John Candy. That's probably the movie I've seen the most in my adult life, other than the movies. Now I'm forced to watch with our daughter.

[B]

Like, oh, those are good.

[D]

Frozen and the Grinch and anything that she's on. I've probably seen those about 50 times in the last year.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Mine are kid related, too. We always watch Home Alone and Elf every Christmas. But, yeah, Forrest Gump is the one I've probably seen most. Yeah.

[C]

And mine is probably Kelly Finglass's Chili Meltdown. It's a new movie dramatized by AI.

[B]

The Chili Meltdown got so bad that finally my best friend and I, we were gonna go as a can of chili and then a can of beans.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

I basically got fired from doing chili this Halloween.

[C]

I'm Beanless Chili Guy. I don't like this.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And George. Love beans and his chili.

[A]

Absolutely. I know, it's a. I do both versions, Gordon.

[B]

I do both.

[A]

Yeah, that's probably the way to go.

[B]

But, yeah, y' all gotta watch Final Tip two. Just.

[A]

I know. Yeah.

[D]

Sold me on it.

[A]

I definitely want to see it.

[D]

Kelly, this has been an incredible hour. Thank you so much for joining us. Do you have any more questions for us? Yeah, I don't want to cut you off.

[C]

This was mainly designed for you to ask us.

[B]

Well, I asked y'.

[C]

All.

[B]

What I wanted to know is, like, can. How can you talk any more than what you already do?

[D]

It's amazing, isn't it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I meant to tell you, your entertainment stuff's been great for me. When you talked about adolescence.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

I watched it that night.

[D]

Isn't that amazing?

[B]

Oh, it was hard.

[D]

The last scene you mentioned season episode.

[B]

Three, where the kid starts having a meltdown with his therapist.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And you were so sad.

[C]

I haven't seen it.

[B]

It's funny.

[C]

Is it funny?

[D]

It's not funny. No. It's riveting television.

[B]

It's riveting.

[D]

Well, I'm glad I could be of service.

[A]

I'm glad you still listen to us.

[B]

I know. I just need y' all to stay. Start later or stay on later.

[A]

Okay, that's fine.

[D]

We'll talk about it.

[A]

Whatever you say.

[D]

Thank you so much. This has been a great hour. Really appreciate it. Always great to see you.

[B]

It's great to see y'.

[C]

All.

[A]

Thanks, Kelly.

[C]

How much regret do you have right now, Kelly? On a scale of the only thing.

[B]

I regret is I didn't give y' all your gifts. I brought you a gift.

[C]

You brought us gifts?

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Oh, how sweet.

[B]

Story behind it.

[C]

Okay, what's the story behind the gifts?

[B]

All right, here, I'll show you. Well.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Okay. So I know. I hope this is your first in your life. I think I'm giving y' all something you've never had before in your life, if you do have it.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

That might be another podcast.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

But when I was a little girl in Lindell, I. We had an annual garage sale, and I sold all my Barbie dolls. And my mother was so pissed because I sold my entire collection for 50 cents a piece. So fast forward to in my role with the cheerleaders. I wanted a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader Barbie made. And I started writing Mattel letters in 1993, and I wrote letters for 13 years to get. And Mattel said, no, it's not in our business plan. It's not in our business model. And I was writing them even when we were in the super bowl, saying, look, we just won a Super bowl, but it takes them three years to develop, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that went on for 13 years. And then one day I was at Valley Ranch, and that sounded very country, didn't it?

[C]

Ranch, Ranch.

[B]

My mother gets mad at me. She goes, you've lost your Lindell accent. But I think. I think I just heard it come back. I had a fax machine, and it was in the other room, and a fax. Remember how faxes would curl up?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

There was a fax that had curled up and had dropped on the floor, and my assistant brought it to me, and it was from a guy named Robert Best. He's from Dallas. He's a designer. He did Project Runway, and he designs the Christmas Barbies. Does that mean anything to y'? All? The Christmas Barbie?

[A]

Not really.

[C]

I've heard those two words, but never did.

[A]

That's another movie I like, though. I love the Barbie movie. I thought it was fun.

[B]

Wasn't that great?

[D]

And I like Christmas.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I saw the Christmas movie.

[B]

So in the spirit of Christmas, if, you know, if you're a collector of Barbies, the Christmas Barbie is once a year. It's exclusive, limited edition. So anyway, I get this email. It's from Robert Best after I've been told, no, no, no, no. And it was a letter from him to me saying, hey, I've watched your show on cmt. I love your uniform fitting segment episode. I love the attention to detail in the uniform. Would you ever consider making a Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders Barbie? And I'm like, well, yeah. So I called ams, screamed it took two years to develop. I'd also been told it wouldn't sell. He was the collector's division. That's where I'm gonna get it. I was writing letters to the mass market Mattel Barbie, Robert did collectibles. So they sold out in three days.

[D]

I was gonna say, they told you it wouldn't sell.

[A]

Yeah. That's a marketing person. Is that.

[B]

Well, back then, this was. Well, we were starting to win Super Bowls, but nothing has ever been easy. Yeah, nothing. Everything does require effort. I don't care who you are or what brand you are. Anyway, we made them, and they're sold out. And so each year, I give the cheer. A cheerleader at our auditions, whoever has artistic excellence. A Barbie. So this is my Marconi award to you guys. Y' all have artistic. So I'll just show you. So, yeah, so I thought, well, maybe they'll get it or maybe it'll sit on a stance. But here. Here's your Barbie.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[D]

Look at that.

[A]

Look at that.

[D]

That's so great. Thank you.

[B]

Have one.

[A]

That's so sweet, Kelly. Thank you.

[B]

And then I brought you a little spiral so you can write notes about.

[D]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Robots or movies.

[A]

I'm gonna start using that spiral because this one's about having robots. That'd be great.

[B]

And then you have a little calendar. It's a page a day calendar to start your year.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Cowboys cheerleader.

[D]

Thank you so much.

[B]

Have you ever had a Barbie doll?

[C]

Yes, I'm sure. My home right now waiting for me.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry. Kelly.

[B]

And then Craig. I'd forgotten we'd already.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

In case she's outgrown her little costume.

[D]

Oh, that's great. Thank you. Look at this.

[A]

Or is that for Craig?

[B]

Because you can't bring a Barbie home without her getting one. And then y' all have the same thing. So I don't know how you're gonna tell your adult men friends that.

[A]

I'll be proud to say that I have one from Kelly, but they're sold.

[B]

Out, and they really, truly. And our. For our girls are like our Oscar, our Grammy. It's. It's. I only give it to those who win the artistic excellence award.

[D]

Wow. We feel honored.

[A]

Very sweet.

[D]

Thank you.

[C]

Came here with Gifts. Can we doordash you a sandwich or something?

[D]

We didn't get her anything. We're terrible.

[C]

No, we don't do coffee.

[B]

You don't have any swag?

[A]

Yeah, we'll get you some Users the podcast swag. How about that?

[B]

That'd be great.

[D]

We'll get you a bumper sticker in exchange for all these nice gifts.

[B]

Do a P1 anything.

[C]

Oh, yeah, y' all are gonna get scary.

[A]

Yeah, we will.

[C]

If you hang around here after the podcast is over, which it is, then we will get you a T shirt.

[A]

Yeah, how about that T shirt?

[D]

God, we're so lame.

[A]

Lame.

[D]

Kelly Finglass, the director of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders since 1991. What an amazing run. And of course, you can watch America's Sweethearts, the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders on Netflix Season two came out over the summer. In season three, already ordered and is in the works and filming now. Thanks to our producer, Peter Welton. Another great job this week. That does it for the Musers.

[C]

The podcast, now that was a treat. Thanks also to Jordan Van Dyke. Greeting from Dallas Cowboys PR for helping get this organized. Couldn't have done it without her. If you'd like to reach out to the Musers just to say howdy or have it considered for email of the week, you can do so themuserspodmail.com thanks for listening. The Musers. The podcast is a tired head production.

[D]

What's up, guys? David Pollack here, former Georgia Bulldog, former analyst with College Game Day, and host of my new show, C Ball, Get Ball. I'm a defensive lineman. That's why that's the name.

[C]

You see the ball, you go get it.

[D]

We're going to dive deep into college football. We're going to break down film.

[C]

We'll have bold takes, real conversations with.

[D]

The biggest names in the sport every single week.

[B]

If you eat, sleep and breathe college.

[A]

Football like I do, man, I promise.

[C]

You, C Ball, Get Ball is for you.

[B]

So do me a favor, follow and.

[D]

Listen on your favorite platform.