Ep2 - "It's Funnier Over Here"

Summary

The Musers The Podcast Episode 2: "It's Funnier Over Here" Release Date: July 2, 2025

Hosted by Cumulus Podcast Network

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1. Introduction and First Impressions

The second episode of The Musers The Podcast, titled "It's Funnier Over Here," dives deep into the origins and enduring friendship of the show's hosts: George Dunham, Craig “Junior” Miller, and Gordon Keith. From the outset, the conversation is candid and humorous, setting the tone for the episode’s exploration of their personal and professional journeys.

Notable Quote:

Gordon (00:00): "I'm going to ask a lot of really personal questions."

2. Initial Reception and Feedback

Early in the episode, the hosts reflect on the reception of their inaugural podcast episode. They share humorous and heartwarming feedback, including a standout comment allegedly from the "President of the United States," lauding the podcast as "probably the finest podcast of all time" (Craig, 01:17).

Notable Quote:

Craig (01:17): "The Musers the podcast was probably the finest podcast of all time."

Despite playful skepticism about the authenticity of some reviews, the positive feedback reinforces their commitment to the podcasting venture.

3. The Genesis of The Musers

The conversation transitions to the inception of The Musers The Podcast. The trio discusses how the idea was a collective effort, driven by their mutual interest in staying connected and entertaining audiences beyond their terrestrial radio presence. They reveal that approaching Cumulus for a partnership was a unanimous decision, albeit initially met with hesitation.

Notable Quote:

Gordon (02:19): "But how did the podcast come to be? It was something that they were really interested in."

4. College Days: Building a Lasting Friendship

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to recounting the hosts' college experiences at North Texas. George and Craig share nostalgic anecdotes about their freshman year, from struggling with academics to bonding over a shared love for sports, particularly their admiration for Danny White, a beloved quarterback.

Notable Quotes:

George (05:27): "Our freshman year, we didn't... We've worked together since we were teenagers."

Craig (13:52): "We started calling each other Bubba for the rest of our college career."

Their stories highlight the foundational elements of their friendship—humor, sports enthusiasm, and mutual support—which later translate into their on-air chemistry.

5. Early Radio Careers: From Campus to Professional Broadcasting

The hosts delve into their initial forays into radio broadcasting during their college years. They recount their time at the campus radio station, where they honed their skills in sports broadcasting, play-by-play commentary, and hosting talk shows. This period was marked by creative improvisation, such as crafting fake caller voices to simulate audience interaction.

Notable Quote:

Craig (24:51): "We took turns hosting. I would host one week, George would host the next week."

Their early experiences laid the groundwork for their professional careers, emphasizing adaptability and the importance of camaraderie in creating engaging content.

6. Transition to KRLD and Professional Growth

Post-graduation, George and Craig navigate the competitive landscape of sports radio in Dallas-Fort Worth. George secures a position at KRLD, quickly overcoming odds to interview prominent figures like Tom Landry. Meanwhile, Craig also lands a role at KRLD, reuniting the two and setting the stage for their future collaborations.

Notable Quote:

Craig (35:37): "I packed up the car and got that job at KRLD."

Their seamless transition into professional radio underscores their dedication and the strength of their partnership, which becomes a cornerstone of their long-term success.

7. Establishing 'The Ticket'

The discussion moves to the creation of "The Ticket," an all-sports radio station in Dallas-Fort Worth. Craig narrates the strategic planning behind the station's lineup, aiming to leverage the unique chemistry between George and himself. They realize that their established rapport and shared history can translate into a compelling radio show, distinct from the more personality-driven programs of their peers.

Notable Quote:

Craig (38:13): "We found that all the silly stuff that made us laugh also made the listener laugh."

This insight leads to the development of a show that blends sports expertise with humor, setting them apart in a burgeoning sports radio market.

8. The Chemistry and Longevity of the Trio

A recurring theme is the exceptional chemistry among the trio, which Gordon emphasizes as a rare and valuable asset. They discuss how their longstanding friendship and shared experiences have fostered a seamless collaboration, enabling them to maintain a successful and harmonious professional relationship over decades.

Notable Quote:

Craig (42:25): "The relationship the three of us have had has been... I can't imagine any three people having a better relationship."

Their ability to navigate potential conflicts and sustain their partnership is portrayed as a key factor in their enduring success, defying the high turnover typically seen in radio shows.

9. Reflections on Sustained Success

Towards the end of the episode, the hosts reflect on their journey, from college friends to industry veterans. They acknowledge the challenges of maintaining a long-term collaboration in the volatile media landscape, celebrating their resilience and the deep-rooted bonds that have kept them together.

Notable Quote:

George (43:41): "It's got to be with the same three guys or same three people."

This reflection serves as both a testament to their hard work and a blueprint for aspiring content creators on the importance of genuine relationships in achieving sustained success.

10. Conclusion and Future Insights

The episode wraps up with playful banter and acknowledgments, maintaining the light-hearted and engaging atmosphere. The hosts hint at future episodes that will delve deeper into their professional milestones and personal stories, promising listeners more inside looks into their journey.

Notable Quote:

Craig (39:37): "A lot of that'll come in episode three and episode four of the podcast."

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Overall Summary:

In "It's Funnier Over Here," The Musers The Podcast's second episode offers a rich, engaging narrative of the hosts' intertwined personal and professional lives. Through anecdotes spanning their college years, early careers in radio, and the establishment of "The Ticket," George Dunham, Craig “Junior” Miller, and Gordon Keith reveal the foundation of their enduring chemistry and success. The episode underscores the value of long-term friendships, shared passions, and mutual support in navigating the competitive landscape of sports broadcasting. Notable quotes throughout provide authentic glimpses into their camaraderie and dedication, making the episode both informative and entertaining for new and longtime listeners alike.

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Timestamp references correspond to specific points in the episode where notable quotes and discussions occur.

Transcript

[Gordon]

Okay, so what we're going to do is I'm going to be. I think what we're going to do is I'm going to interview the two of you.

[George]

Okay.

[Gordon]

And I'm going to ask a lot of really personal questions.

[George]

So a lot of this will be like Mark Fuhrman.

[Gordon]

No, it's a podcast. You can't plead the Fifth. That's only in court. In podcasts, you have to answer the question. So a lot of this, though, is going to cover your sexual history then?

[George]

I'm not doing it.

[Craig]

I'm in.

[Gordon]

The Musers the podcast.

[George]

Episode two.

[Gordon]

It's funnier over here. Hey ho, and welcome. It is the Musers the podcast. I'm Gordon.

[George]

I'm not doing that again.

[Gordon]

Come on, you have to do that. No, people have to learn your voice. They have to learn your voice.

[George]

Okay. I'm George.

[Craig]

And I'm Craig.

[Gordon]

Okay.

[George]

See what I mean?

[Gordon]

Yeah. That's a bad idea. You're listening to the music of the podcast now. This is. We've got a few reaction, pieces of reaction from our very first one.

[George]

Okay. All right.

[Gordon]

I don't know if you guys read the reviews or whether you stayed away.

[George]

I tried.

[Gordon]

Some people not read them. When you do a new project, you try to stay away from the reviews, right?

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

Until you get your footing, your psychological footing. But did you stay away from.

[Craig]

I did.

[Gordon]

Okay, here's one says the Musers. The podcast was probably the finest podcast of all time, and it came to us from the office of the President of the United States.

[Craig]

Wow, that's nice.

[Gordon]

Better than Joyce DeWitt's podcast, said Tom Shales in the podcast magazine. And let's see, this one says the musers. The podcast EPI1, that's short for episode, was fantastic.

[George]

It's the feel good hit of the.

[Gordon]

Summer, and I consider it the second greatest podcast emanating from Texas. Joe Rogan.

[Craig]

Whoa.

[Gordon]

Actually, it says Joe Brogan here, so maybe.

[George]

Oh, that's a different dude.

[Gordon]

And then we had a bit of listener snail mail that came in because it was so long between podcasts. A whole week. So you can get a letter to someone.

[George]

That's right.

[Gordon]

So this came into our home office. It said, comes to us from Richie Kreitman. Said, love the podcast, especially the part where Gordon was talking. Oh, that's nice. But the other two guys have promise. So he said something nice about y' all, too.

[George]

I'll take promise, said.

[Gordon]

One question, though, I don't think you guys covered. How did the podcast come to Be. How did the podcast come to be?

[George]

I wish we had a heart.

[Gordon]

Almost need to think back as to how it happened. No. When. So I've heard this from people like, whose idea was this to start a podcast? And the answer is kind of everybody's. It's kind of everybody's idea. It was us. We asked Cumulus if they were interested in partnering with us on a podcast, and they said, absolutely. They thought that was a great idea.

[George]

Yeah, Cumulus is in the podcast business.

[Gordon]

And then we said, can we back out of what we just said to you?

[George]

Which did you realize that? Again, showing my ignorance towards the podcasting world. Did you know Cumulus was this involved.

[Craig]

In podcasting Westwood One, their network?

[George]

I just didn't put those two together. I hear those Westwood One promos all the time.

[Gordon]

I know.

[George]

Hadn't put it together.

[Gordon]

It doesn't sound like Cumulus. Two very, very different names.

[Craig]

But when they said, yes, we're interested in partnering with you, then we all immediately got cold feet, thought, what have we done?

[Gordon]

Then we stopped returning their calls for a while.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

But, yeah, so it was something that they. That they were really interested in, and we had shot our mouths off about it, and so we decided to go forward with it. And how great is that? Because, heck, we're not doing broadcast radio right now or a little bit of a vacation for us, but we're still getting together on vacation and doing podcasts.

[George]

Yeah. It's a chance for us to still talk to each other.

[Gordon]

We don't understand how vacations work, and.

[Craig]

It'S part of evolution of our careers. We're trying something a little new, and we'll see where it goes. You really may not be in episode number three. Who knows?

[George]

But Gordon really doesn't understand how vacations work.

[Gordon]

Yeah, I know. Yeah. It was probably whatever, three weeks ago when we were getting ready to go on broadcast terrestrial radio vacation, and I had to ask when vacation was, and you said, oh, it's on. Last day is Friday. Yeah, I know you used to have.

[George]

A plan, and don't worry about it. We'll do that another time.

[Gordon]

Yeah, don't worry about that. Okay, so I want to know if you guys are nervous about me going full Larry King, full Charlie Rose, and probing both of you so deeply. Just don't use that word during this episode because a lot of people may not know Yalls backstory which goes back farther, further. Do you know the difference between farther and further? It's further.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

Than the three of us.

[George]

Yes. I am not nervous because Thinking about this episode, knowing what we were going to talk about, it made me think, how many other co workers can say that they've basically known each other and really worked together? Our freshman year, we didn't. Well, yeah, we wrote sports together for the yearbook.

[Gordon]

We wrote sports together.

[George]

We have worked together since we were teenagers. Now we're in our late 50s. How many people in this world can say that?

[Craig]

Very few.

[Gordon]

47.

[Craig]

Very few. In this business, and especially in this business, there are probably some in a family business that worked together since teenage years and into their retirement. But in this business, as volatile as it is, I think we're the outliers.

[George]

It seemed like everyone when I graduated from high school was already turning 19. I was only 18. I just turned 18, I guess, after I graduated. Craig didn't turn 18 until December of his freshman year in college. So when we met each other, I was 18, had just turned 18, and he was 17. That was a million years ago.

[Gordon]

Yeah, long time ago. So when you go to college, you guys didn't know each other in high school, you met in college and. Oh, gosh, I gotta prepare myself for this because I'm about to ask about that fateful day.

[George]

Oh, yeah.

[Gordon]

In the room, in that classroom, when you guys met each other and started this whole ridiculous ride that we are now currently still on.

[Craig]

We should go back maybe a little bit a few months before that because I was graduating high school, still didn't know where I was going to go to college. And I remember being at.

[Gordon]

Still a virgin.

[Craig]

Still a virgin. Being at my Uncle Don's house in Lancaster. And he said, where are you going to college? And this is like. April said, I really don't know yet. And I said, I've applied to Texas, Texas Tech, North Texas, a few others. We had moved from Oklahoma. I would have loved to have gone to OU because I grew up a big OU fan. But I. I wasn't a good enough student for my parents to pay out of state tuition. They were saving that for my sister, who was a really good student.

[George]

So they were banking on her.

[Gordon]

Yeah, she was a safer bet.

[Craig]

So I was just going to go in state where tuition was affordable. So I applied to a bunch of state schools. And he said, well, you know, you're interested in being a sports broadcaster. North Texas has a really great school for that. Bill Mercer runs their program up there. And I said, okay, that sounds good. That's where I'm going. So I didn't look anywhere else, and I just made my decision to go to North Texas. We went to orientation. George and I didn't cross paths there in August. But then, no disrespect, but then school started late August. And how did you find your way up there?

[George]

I thought I would just do the generic, get a business degree, I guess. And I wanted to play golf in college. I had that dream. And I had a couple of junior college offers. Lon Morris and Jacksonville Junior College.

[Craig]

Pretty impressive.

[George]

Name of it.

[Gordon]

Yeah. Okay.

[George]

But then I talked to the coach at North Texas, Herb Farrell, who was a longtime assistant coach to Otis Mitchell at North Texas and football, but he was the golf coach.

[Gordon]

None of these names mean anything to me.

[George]

Well, they made something to Craig, maybe just a little bit. And I said I had a conversation with him and he encouraged me. He said, we have a walk on program. Why don't you come here and walk on at North Texas? I thought, okay. And after three days of qualifying, I was told to walk off the North Texas golf team.

[Gordon]

Would you politely leave?

[George]

I don't think any. He was nice about it. He said, I don't think right now, this year you're ready for college golf. I don't think you are. He basically said, I don't think you're good enough to be in our walk on program at this time.

[Craig]

At least he was honest.

[George]

Yes, he was honest. And I said, that's fine because I think there's a Kappa Sig Bunny party tonight. So thank you. What is that?

[Gordon]

Is that a sorority or something?

[George]

Yeah, it was a rush party. It was a fraternity party. But their little sisters dressed as Playboy bunnies. Do you think you could get away with that now in college?

[Craig]

You could not get away with anything today like they got away with in 1983. The fall of 83. So two years before we went to North Texas. Rolling Stone top five party schools in America. North Texas made that list. So here we are, a 17 year old and an 18 year old and we're set free on this campus with girls and booze everywhere. And it was such a massive party school and I barely drank in high school, so I same. I did not know how to handle all that.

[George]

No. And it was everywhere, like you said. And there were dorm parties too. We could have parties in our dorm and they would think nothing of us going out. And it was the guys who were of age who would go buy the keg. But we would buy the keg and put it at the end of the hall.

[Craig]

And every fraternity had a yard party when they were doing rush at the beginning of each semester. Just Open to the public. You could be 12 and walk up there and get a beer. It was just the wild west of partying. Denton was back then.

[Gordon]

Okay. And I'm younger than you guys by several years. And I've always heard stories about when the drinking age in Texas was 18. Was that. Were you all a part of that?

[Craig]

Yes, we were.

[George]

And then they changed it to 19. But we were grandfathered in.

[Craig]

No, we weren't. I was legal for like six months, and then I wasn't. And I remember.

[Gordon]

And you immediately stopped drinking.

[Craig]

When I went back to being illegal, my ra, Dave, he gave me his old ID and he was 25 and I was.

[Gordon]

You as a black man turned 18.

[Craig]

Nobody had a really heavy beard. We didn't look anything alike. And I got busted so many times in bars showing that id, and they're like, this isn't you. Yeah, you're right. And I turn around and leave. But, yeah, we weren't grandfathered in. So I was legal for six months. Then I couldn't drink for two years, legally. But in North Texas, that didn't even really matter.

[George]

Yeah, no. We had a lounge on campus, the rock bottom lounge that had five Cent beer night.

[Craig]

Five Cent beer night. Every Thursday night and Friday morning when you would walk to class, there would be beer cups everywhere strewn across campus.

[George]

It was crazy.

[Gordon]

But you guys didn't know each other when you first got there, Right. You'd meet the first semester.

[Craig]

First class of the first semester.

[Gordon]

Oh, first class.

[Craig]

It was 9am freshman English in the English building. And we had both coincidentally signed up for it.

[Gordon]

And you know what that was? That was broadcast Jesus moving the hand of faith.

[Craig]

It was fate. And our teacher, she looked exactly like Paul Williams, the composer.

[George]

Remember Paul Williams with real straight hair? Yeah.

[Craig]

Spitting image. But that first day, we sat on opposite sides of the room. We didn't know each other.

[George]

Yeah. And I was pretty quiet, you know, I was intimidated to be in a college class.

[Gordon]

And so were you quiet growing up in class or were you a class clown?

[George]

I was pretty quiet for the most part until I became comfortable. And then, you know, I'd start cracking jokes.

[Gordon]

Until you had some drinks in you. Yeah, before class.

[George]

But I was. I was really pretty quiet. Like, you didn't. I wasn't cracking wise on the other side of the class. But man, he. Craig had. Every day he delivered just gold, hilarious lines. Sports references, sitcom references. And I just thought, man, this guy is hilarious. And I think. And we're in the same dorm. And I thought I'd seen Him at the dorm. And I think I said that to you. Hey, I think we live in the same dorm. And I'm gonna sit over here because it's funnier on this side of the room.

[Gordon]

There's the line. There it is.

[George]

That's what he said.

[Craig]

He came and sat down in the chair next to me and goes, I'm gonna sit over here today. It's funnier.

[George]

I thought, okay, that just started.

[Gordon]

So how far into the class was that?

[George]

Probably the first week or so. I would say. I think it was the second or third class day.

[Craig]

Day three, day four, something like that.

[George]

Monday, Wednesday, Friday, class, from what I remember. Yeah.

[Craig]

So then we had fun in that class that day. And then I remember, like, two days later, we were both happening into another building on campus, and we kind of almost ran into each other. And he rears back and goes, well, hey, Bubba.

[Gordon]

And I go, you called him Bubba?

[Craig]

I go, oh, hey, bubba. And we started calling each other Bubba for the rest of our college career. And we still kind of do from time to time now, but that's what we referred to each other as. And we became known in west hall, our dorm, as the Bubbas.

[George]

We were inseparable. We were always around each other, doing something ridiculous, and people just refer, oh, yeah, that's the Bubbas.

[Gordon]

So when you're in this class and you. You go over there and say, it's funnier over here, and you get to know him. Were you guys at all competitive as who's going to be the funniest in the class? Was there any Alpha ness to it.

[George]

Or was it just, and that's what.

[Gordon]

I'm gonna be clowns together.

[George]

And that's when I think it almost took on a, let's not make jokes for the class. Let's try to crack each other up.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[George]

And, you know, bringing sports pages to class and, you know, cutting out a picture of a Ranger starter from that day and handed it to the guy and said, hey, you may need this.

[Gordon]

Or you may need this.

[Craig]

It's a picture of Rick Honeycutt. And that made me laugh. And so, yeah, our goal was just to make the other guy laugh. We weren't really there to entertain the class.

[George]

No.

[Craig]

And, yeah, it wasn't ever really a competitive thing. It was just. We really clicked, had the same sense of humor, loved sports, and you're gonna laugh. But one of our immediate bonds was over Danny White. Yeah, we discovered that we both loved Danny White. He was our favorite quarterback.

[Gordon]

Y' all can do the rest of the Podcast by yourself.

[George]

He was a very important figure in Dallas sports culture at that time.

[Craig]

Yes.

[George]

He had just lost his starting job, or he was about to. Our freshman year was 83, and they started 12 and 2, and then no Danny. No happened.

[Gordon]

But anyway, I want to focus on that a lot.

[George]

We can't focus on that. But, yeah, he said, oh, my gosh, you're a Danny White fan. Yeah, because I think we both had Danny White posters, and that started a conversation, and we were both baseball fans. And, yeah, we. We watched sports together. We talked sports together. And at some point, I asked him, I said, because, man, I was in, like, economics and all these classes that were just kicking my ass. And I said, what are you majoring in? Because it sounds like you have fun classes. And he said, radio, television, film. They have that. I'd never heard of that. And that sounded like a good idea to me. So I think I made the decision at some point in my freshman year. I got to get out of the business school and do whatever he's doing because he's having a lot more fun.

[Craig]

Plus, I told him that you only needed three hours of math.

[George]

Perfect.

[Craig]

So some of these other majors, you needed 12 hours, but you only need one math class to get an RTVF degree. And so that was appealing. So, yeah, it was. Again, radio fate. He went there to be a business major, but I talked him into rtvf. And we've scratched each other's backs over the years in this profession, so it's always worked out for us. But then we both had this goal of, okay, there's a campus radio station here. We got to start working there. We can do fun stuff there. We can do games. He and I would attend every North Texas game, you know, because it was free for the students. We're like, we don't have to pay to go to this football game or this basketball game.

[George]

Yeah, we thought everyone else was missing out. And we met a guy named Grizzy when we were freshmen. He lived across the hall. Well, eventually across the hall from me, I was down on the bottom floor. Craig was on the second floor. But I spent all my time that first semester on the second floor because it was funnier up there and hanging out in Craig's room and meeting all the guys up there.

[Gordon]

So Grizzly's a real guy. I just always.

[George]

And he was the editor of the yearbook, and I don't know whose idea it was, but somehow we started writing sports for the yearbook so we could.

[Craig]

Get a press pass now to North Texas Games. We could sit in the press box with the other writers for a September football game. Even though our yearbook deadline was April.

[George]

We had to follow the team and the big attraction to us. I can't tell you what a thrill it was for us the first game we went to. And we got free food.

[Craig]

Yes. In the press box.

[George]

Are you kidding me? They give you free food in the press box?

[Craig]

Wow.

[George]

This is the best.

[Craig]

Boy, they treat the media like royalty. This is fantastic.

[Gordon]

So I guess you discovered the common interest of sports pretty early on in this friendship in class.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

Like, how did that come up? I'm sure one of you was doodling a topless Danny White on his notebook, and the other one notices.

[George]

Yeah. And he was always wearing a tiger's hat at that time.

[Gordon]

Tigers.

[George]

As a kind of ode, I guess, to Magnum P.I.

[Craig]

Yeah, I was a huge Magnum fan.

[Gordon]

Not the condoms. You had no experience with that.

[George]

We got to talking about baseball, and I was a Sox fan. And, yeah, once our friendship formed, we always talk about wasting time. I'm so ashamed. If I could go back and talk to myself at 18 years old, I would say, keep having a good time, but really focus in just a little bit on the task at hand here. To get a degree, you don't have to be a jackass 24 hours a day. But I was constantly trying to make him laugh, whether that was walking. Then we found each other's schedules, the classes we didn't have together. And the goal was to crack the other guy up by acting like you were in a conversation in the hallway and you carried it into their classroom while it was. While class was going on.

[Gordon]

When you're mistakenly going in that classroom.

[George]

Yes. While you're finishing off. Okay, Bill, see you later. Oh, gosh, I'm so sorry. And then you'd walk out of class and die laughing. And then I think he brought in. You're gonna die about this. What's that? Yeah, I think the answer is Danny White. And then he would walk into the class and go, oh, gosh, I'm so sorry.

[Gordon]

Sorry, wrong room.

[George]

I'm in the wrong place.

[Craig]

And only one guy in the classroom's laughing, and it's him as I leave. And then two hours later, I'm in my science class or whatever, and midway through, the door opens and I hear, yeah, well, tell him it was Moses Malone, and, oh, I'm sorry, wrong class. And it's him barging into my class, and I'm the only one in there laughing. That's what we would do. That's what occupied our day.

[George]

And that's such. Isn't that pretty low end comedy?

[Gordon]

Sure, but it's bonding comedy. It's like you're learning your comedic chops.

[George]

Yes.

[Craig]

This is also how we would get in the way of each other learning at college.

[George]

It's terrible.

[Craig]

So let's say I had a really big test on a Wednesday. So Tuesday I would go to the library to study because you couldn't study in the dorm. So I'd go to the main library in North Texas and I'd have to inform him that I was going to the library. And he said, okay, if I find you, you have to stop studying. And we're going to go to Mr. Gaddy's and eat buffet pizza. And I'm like, okay, that sounds fair.

[George]

It's like 399. How could you pass that up on a Wednesday night?

[Craig]

So I would find some little alcove in the sixth floor of the library and I'm thinking, I'm hidden pretty well, I'm studying. And then all of a sudden I would hear, well, what do we have here? And I turn around, it's him. And I just close my book and get up and we'd go to Mr. Gaddy's. So then a couple weeks later, it's his turn for a big test and I have to go find him.

[George]

And I begged him, I said, please, you and Skip don't try to find me. I am failing this class. It's not even close. I've got to pass this test or I'm gonna have to. I think it's too late to drop it, so just leave me alone. Just for one night. Economics.

[Craig]

Skip was our other roommate with. Eventually it was George and Skip and Grizzly in one room.

[Gordon]

Not Skip Bayless.

[Craig]

No. And I was across the hall with Slaw in the other room.

[Gordon]

What's his real? He's got a real name.

[Craig]

Johnny Colson. But we called him Slaw for Cole Slaw. So we said, okay, George, go study. Well, of course we're going to come find him. We found him in the darkest part of the library where he couldn't even read. There was no light to read.

[George]

I thought they would give up on me. Well, he's not here.

[Gordon]

He just had a Bic lighter that he was holding down to the textbook.

[Craig]

He could not have possibly been studying because he couldn't read in that pitch dark corner he was in. But we found him and we all went to Mr. Gaddy's and had pizza.

[George]

And I'll never forget Craig. Well, you won't be needing this. As he shuts my economics book, I got a test. Okay, you found me. So, you know, I guess we have to go eat pizza.

[Craig]

And our GPAs reflected that. That first year we were struggling, you.

[George]

Know, I only failed one class. It was that economics, I guess. But I had less than a one point because I made Ds in my other classes. So I made a 0.8. How is that possible?

[Gordon]

Used to have those transcripts.

[George]

And I think I burned him because I was so ashamed of him. I was just. But. And I don't. I take responsibility for it because I did the same thing to him. But Craig's smarter, so he made I was imprint. You made a two something, which was incredible.

[Craig]

I appreciate that. I don't know that I'm smarter, but maybe I had easier classes.

[George]

Maybe. And I just remember thinking, God, give anything to have a 2.3. I had to explain a 0.8 to my parents. And then that first break, Craig would come around, you know, and he was, you know, very polite to my parents and everything. And then after he left, my dad said, hmm, that Craig seems like a little bit of a smart aleck. Yeah, probably. But I don't know, it was fun.

[Gordon]

So when did the radio portion of this come about? When did y' all get a show together or do some broadcast together?

[Craig]

So we took Bill Mercer's class. You couldn't take that until you were a junior. And that's when you really could start doing things at the campus radio station. So I think we did it a little bit before then, but that's when we really started doing things in terms of DJ shifts, sportscasts, some play by play, local high schools.

[George]

Finally, we weren't wasting time. We were really. We were still spending time together. We were doing something productive. Learning how to do sportscast and play by play.

[Craig]

Yeah, and I think it was my junior year, maybe I was. It was my junior year or senior year where I was the sports director at the station. And then the next year, George was the sports director there. Yeah, and in those couple of years we started our own talk show. But we never did a talk show together. It was called Sportsline, Generic every Monday night on KTU, the campus station up there, from 6:15 to 7. After their 15 minute news seemed like.

[George]

Four and a half hour show.

[Craig]

45 minutes was hard to fill because it was just either.

[Gordon]

Tell me about it.

[Craig]

We took turns. We took turns hosting. I would host one week, George would host the next week. Every once in a while we'd have one of the North Texas coaches on or something. But we would also take calls. Well, we never got any calls. So if it was my turn to host, George would record three fake calls, all in different voices. And if it was usually a guy.

[George]

Just got off a tractor.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

Country Voice.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[George]

Yeah. What's going on, Craig?

[Craig]

And I'd say, oh, not.

[Gordon]

They love the program. They love Sports Line.

[George]

I love what you guys do at this show.

[Craig]

Yeah. Sometimes we do live calls or we get our friends to call, but we also had some recorded calls just in case. And so the next week, when he was hosting, I would do the calls to make sure we had somebody to talk to and make it sound like people were listening and wanting to call in.

[George]

Do you have any of those?

[Craig]

I might. I was digging through a box the other day. The problem is I don't have a tape recorder in my house.

[Gordon]

I know it.

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So I don't know how to listen to what I've got in these boxes.

[George]

Yeah. You need to go get one and see the problem. A lot of those were on reel to reel.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[George]

And I had a box of them and they got wet. And I'm assuming that they don't work. I'll have to bring them up here and see if there's. One of the guests I had on one week was Skip Bayless.

[Gordon]

Really?

[George]

How weird is that? It's kind of like lost.

[Craig]

It is like law.

[George]

One point of our lives and then another part.

[Craig]

Then another part.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

He's just going to shadow talking on all this, but. So were you guys best friends with each other all the way through college, or did you have other best friends that were equal? Equally?

[George]

We had a group close.

[Craig]

Yeah, we were pretty much best friends with each other. My other buddy, Dave, who you guys know, I got to know him our sophomore year really well because I was.

[George]

Sent home to Brookhaven.

[Craig]

Because he got sent home to Brooklyn for a semester.

[George]

Yeah. Because my grades were so bad, my parents said, I'm not paying for you to go to college.

[Gordon]

I didn't know this.

[George]

Yeah. So I paid my way through Brookhaven for a year and then came back to North Texas.

[Gordon]

A semester. A year.

[George]

A year.

[Gordon]

Wow.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

So your whole sophomore year was at Brookhaven?

[George]

Yes, but I would still. I would call him on the Metro line when I knew he was. When I knew he's at the yearbook office at a yearbook office place, and it would ring in there and he'd, oh, hi, Bubba.

[Craig]

And he still came up a lot, and he still played for our intramural.

[George]

Basketball team, very legally.

[Craig]

So we still remained best friends. And then when he came back, we got an apartment together with Skip and Grizzly. So there were four of us in an apartment our junior year. So, yeah, we were still extremely close and doing all those games together and everything at the station together and playing intramurals. Gordon. Intramurals were an extremely important part of our college experience. I mean, it meant everything. And we treated them like we were playing for a pro team. So, for example, the West Hall Hoopers, our basketball team, if we had a game that day, George and I did not go to class for fear of twisting an ankle on the way to class.

[George]

And we would go to the pebble where the basketball courts were, and we would sit up in this observation area and just stare at the court, knowing we were going to play there that night, psyching ourselves.

[Gordon]

Mindset. Yes.

[George]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig]

You have no idea how seriously we took these games.

[George]

We had a media guide. We talked a guy who was on the ticket after we started up here, David Burrell would do play by play. He would do it into a tape recorder, and we would, after the game, go back to our apartment and listen to the game that we just played in.

[Gordon]

It's so low rent.

[George]

It's so bad.

[Craig]

We had in our apartment the Hooper's Skylight of Honor. We had a skylight in this little atrium room. And there's where we would retire the jerseys of famous players on our intramural team.

[Gordon]

And how many players ended up getting retired?

[George]

See the doc.

[Craig]

The doc, John Poole, who was in our first year, he was our best player by a mile. Torchy, he may have had his.

[George]

Who was that jump jam, by the way?

[Craig]

Oh, was he Torchy?

[George]

The Bird was. Yes, he was.

[Craig]

Then, of course, George and I retired each other's numbers.

[George]

Yeah, we couldn't stay out of the ring of honor.

[Gordon]

What was this apartment like?

[George]

It was gross when we first moved in.

[Craig]

Oh, man.

[George]

Roach infested it.

[Craig]

Really. Roach infested. So George and I shared a bedroom, and Skip and Grizzy shared a bedroom. And in our bedroom, we had twin beds. And above each of our beds was the exact same Danny White poster.

[Gordon]

Oh, my gosh.

[Craig]

And it was on the north side of Denton. It was kind of far away from campus, kind of close to twu. But I remember the first night there were so many roaches in there. We hadn't bombed it yet or anything with Roach Killer. And we had to sleep in there that first night. And every. We each slept with a Flashlight.

[George]

Right. Just to pinpoint where the roach was when it would crawl across you.

[Craig]

Because about every 20 seconds, you'd feel something skitter across your chest or an arm. And then that guy would scream. And we both turn on our flashlights looking for the roach.

[George]

There it is right there. Oh, so gross. But it was only 400 bucks a month.

[Gordon]

Four guys, 100 bucks a month.

[Craig]

All bills paid.

[George]

All bills paid. Yeah.

[Gordon]

Did you guys have jobs in college or did your parents?

[George]

We'd work in the summers.

[Craig]

Yeah. Yeah, I waited tables in the summer. First couple summers back in Lancaster, I worked at Thorntree, that country club in desoto, waiting tables. And then at my junior year, after we got paid for doing a little bit at the campus station, I started waiting tables at Salerno's. And so I did that four or five nights a week my junior senior and second senior year.

[George]

Yeah. When you brought up your. Our junior year, when you became sports director, I was gonna say, yeah, I think it was our red shirt junior year because, yeah, we were on the five year plan. And I'm surprised that we got out in five years, but we did somehow. And I worked for my dad commercial roofing, kind of as a gopher. And. Yeah. In fact, one job, I filled up this huge truck of this throwaway material, and it happened to be not too far from Lancaster. So I drove the truck over and drove up in front of Craig's house. Hey, what do we have here? Just to add some laughs to the summer.

[Gordon]

Okay, so you guys did some radio stuff there. And then after you get out of college, was there a plan to do anything together after college?

[George]

We didn't think that'd be possible.

[Craig]

No. Because keep in mind, this is 88 when we graduated.

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Was it 89?

[George]

88, spring of 88.

[Gordon]

And I wasn't born for another 15 years.

[Craig]

Sports talk radio was not even a thing. All sports radio. The fan I'm not even sure had started or it had just started in New York, the first all sports station.

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And in Dallas, Fort Worth, Brad Sham had a talk show and Norm Hitzkiss had a talk show. And that was pretty much it.

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So there was not really room or there weren't jobs there. We thought we'd go into play by play or. I graduated college thinking, I'm just going to take whatever job either in TV or radio that I can get. If it's radio, play by play, great. If it's sportscasting, that's great. If it's tv, I'll take anything. And I Couldn't find anything for a while because the other buddy that I met in college, Dave, he and I made a pack to, after we're done in college, go to Boulder, Colorado and race our bikes for a year. Just get bike racing out of our system. Because that was installation kind of my big passion. And I thought, yeah, that sounds good. Before we launch into our lives, let's go do this. And. But, but I was also at the time applying for a lot of different jobs and I couldn't find really much of anything that I was really interested in. There wasn't much out there.

[George]

No, there wasn't. I was headed for either Brenham, where Blue Bell ice cream is made, and I was going to do stock reports and ag reports, news and sports, or a reporter's job in Corpus Christi. And then a miracle happened and Brian Briscoe left krld. We knew Craig way there in Dallas. In Dallas. And I applied and there was about 50 people who applied for the job. And I thought that, man, there's no way. And because I was right out of college and they didn't have to pay me much and I think I was hired on an interim basis to start. Brad Sham gave me a huge break and hired me at krld.

[Gordon]

And was he voice of the Cowboys then?

[George]

Yeah, we had the Cowboys there at KRLD at the time. And so, gosh, I'm at the Cowboy station three weeks later, I'm in Thousand Oaks interviewing Tom Landry and Texram and I just.

[Gordon]

Dallas, Fort Worth, you stay in this huge market.

[George]

Oh my gosh, it was the hugest break. And as Craig is racing bikes, you know, we've stayed in touch and then.

[Gordon]

How often we all talk when you were living in, in Colorado, seemed like.

[Craig]

You know, once a month. We didn't have texting back then, so you had to actually call the guy. We didn't have emails.

[Gordon]

Yeah, long distance was a thing then.

[Craig]

But we kept in touch. Yeah, we talk once a month or whatever. So I had been up there for six or eight months and then he called me and said, hey, there's going to be an opening here at krld. Because I think I had told him, hey, I'm going to Boulder. If you hear of anything, let me know. Well, he calls and says, David Burrell, I believe, is who it was that was leaving.

[Gordon]

Right, Our old play by play guy.

[Craig]

Yeah, he had been at KLD and he was leaving to go to San Antonio. He goes, burl's leaving, there's going to be an opening. Are you Interested? I'll put in a good word with Brad for you. I said, yeah, I'm interested. So I had to put together a resume tape really quickly because I don't think I had one with me or I had an old. So I went down to the 711 and I bought a Boulder newspaper, clipped out a few sports stories, did a sportscast on a tape, and mailed it to Brad Sham. And then, like five days later, I got a call. Pick up the phone, it's Brad. And he does an interview with me over the phone. And he said, well, George speaks highly of you, and Craig Way speaks highly of you. Do you want the job? And I was like, well, yes, I want the job. Of course I want the job. When do you need me? And he goes, yesterday.

[Gordon]

I said, okay, yesterday I packed up.

[Craig]

The car and got that job at krld. And so George and I were reunited.

[George]

There just like peas and carrots all over again. So we're in the same building. I got Craig to do some things on tsn, and yeah, we were. We were back together again. And I thought it was just awesome. And I figured, heck, we'll do that forever. You know, we got these plum jobs. But then we lost the Cowboys, and things started changing. And Craig heard there was a. All sports station starting.

[Craig]

Yeah. You were at KRLD for what, five, five or six years? I was there for four or five, something like that.

[George]

Yeah. 88 through 93. So five, I guess.

[Craig]

Okay. Ye. I think I was there for four years. And George was at Texas State Network, and he was the sports director there, and he had a pretty good gig there. And I loved my gig at krld, but I was bottom guy in the totem pole, and I just didn't see much room for advancement there. But I didn't really care because I was in the business. And while being bottom guy on the totem pole there, I was covering Rangers, Cowboys, Mavericks, and eventually Stars games. And I got to know Mike Reiner and Greg Williams really well because the three of us covered all these games. So we saw each other every night and we hung out. We sat together during the games, and we'd go out for a beer afterwards. So one day, Ryan's takes me out for a beer. This is about a year after he and I had a conversation about, do you think all sports radio will ever come to Dallas Fort Worth? It's such a great market. I think it would do well. And, yeah, I think one day it will. Well, a year later, Ryan's takes me out for a beer and says, there's going to be an all sports station starting here. Would you like to be a part of it? I think you and Grego and me should be on this station because we basically do a show every night at the games, and I see the way people react to us, so I think we'd have a great show. I said, absolutely. So that was the plan, that the afternoon show on this new station called the Ticket was going to be Mike Reiner, Greg Williams, Craig Miller, and Skip Bayless was going to be our morning show, and he had a couple of syndicated shows that were going to be midday shows. Well, I pretty quickly started to figure this out, that Mike and Greg were massive personalities. They had a lot of aura to them and a lot to say. And of course, I knew George, and I knew George and I knew each other really well, even though we had never done a show together officially. We had basically been doing a show together for the last 10 years.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

Your whole friendship was a show.

[Craig]

Yeah. So I went to Mike and I said, what do you think of this idea? What if we can get George over here and George and I do a show together and you and Grego do a show together? Now we're covering more of the day with local shows instead of syndicated, and I know George and I can do a good show together. And do you think he'll come over here? I said, yeah, I think so. And you didn't really hesitate.

[George]

No, I took the leap. Even though, just like in today's podcasting world, I never saw myself as a talk show host because, like you said, that was reserved for the royalty of Dallas Fort Worth. That was for Brad and Norm and Randy Galloway.

[Craig]

Right.

[George]

We can't. No one cares what we have to say. And. But I said, yeah, I think between us, we could do whatever it is we've been doing since we were teenagers, and maybe someone would think that was somewhat funny and different.

[Gordon]

And so then when you started a ticket. And I'm sure we'll get into more of this when I come into the picture, because that's where I entered and met you guys was shortly before the Ticket went on the air. I remember meeting you first, Giorgio, in the hallway of the radio station.

[Craig]

Package that for episode four.

[Gordon]

Yes.

[Craig]

A lot of that'll come in episode three and episode four.

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Of the podcast.

[Gordon]

But when you guys started to work together, and of course, we weren't mornings yet, we. The three of us weren't together, and you start working on the ticket. Do you remember that first day when you are sitting across from each other doing a talk show in a way that you'd never done before. This isn't student radio.

[George]

No.

[Gordon]

This is major market.

[George]

It may have sounded like it then.

[Gordon]

First couple of years, your name's on the show, and now you have a show to fill three hours.

[George]

Yeah. And I think that was going back to our relationship. I felt good about it because I was with Craig. You know, I thought, hey, I'm just hanging out with Craig. I can do that. I have no idea what we're going to talk about. But, you know, we both followed all the local teams. We knew something about it, we had something to say about it. And then we also had some goofy things to say, too. And off it went.

[Craig]

Yeah. And George had the idea very early to work in drops. I think that was your original idea in the first show to work in a drop, because George had that idea. And so we had these other element, elemental ideas that we wanted to work in the show. But I do remember the first day we went to have lunch. So we were on from 2 to 5. The hard line back then was on 11 to 2, and Georgia and I went to have lunch, and we were listening to the Hard line start at 11, and they just came out of the gate firing hot, hot. And we're laughing. And George looked at me and goes, man, this is going to work. This is going to be great.

[George]

Yeah, I had that feeling. And after our show, I felt the same way. I thought that was really fun. I don't know what we just did or what we accomplished. Kind of like we're wasting time again in college, but that felt really good. I think that we can do something with this. And. Yeah, and then we started getting reaction. Hey, I like listening to you guys because I think. I don't know what your reaction was when you first heard us, but some people thought, well, at least they know each other so well, that it's compelling that they have a history together and they have this chemistry, and there's something interesting with those two.

[Gordon]

All right, you want to hear my. I want to hear what Craig has to say, and then I'll give you my impression of when I first heard your show.

[Craig]

All I was going to say was it was always very easy. Like, our friendship was always easy. And both of you, we've all had little moments here and there, but very few. Over 30 years, the grand portion of the time that the three of us have been together, and even George and I, going back to college days, broadcasting, always very, very easy. Just really Easy to do a show with you guys, to talk to you guys, to get into subjects. It just. Yeah. It was never a struggle.

[George]

No.

[Gordon]

At some point we'll do a whole show on our conflicts with each other. But yeah, it'd be very listened to. It'd be very tense to.

[Craig]

Okay, but those are, in fairness, those are extremely minimal.

[Gordon]

Oh, yeah.

[Craig]

For this business, which can be very volatile. The relationship the three of us have had has been, you know, I can't imagine any three people having a better relationship.

[Gordon]

No. And I've said this before, like in our AMAs and behind the scenes stuff. You know, it's. It's so difficult to imagine doing a show as long as we've all three done it together and not have it blow up.

[Craig]

Right.

[Gordon]

Because usually the people who are attracted to these types of jobs are alpha people to begin with and they combative and you can be that way and you're in a high pressure situation. And it's hard enough to keep any marriage going this long. You know, marriages fail. 50% of marriages fail. And this is exactly what this is. It's like it's a work marriage to keep going this long and to manage that relationship for that long. It just seems unheard of. I mean, radio shows don't last as long.

[George]

They don't. And we haven't researched it. We just claim that we're the longest running radio show in America.

[Gordon]

Just claim it. That's all.

[George]

It's got to be with the same three guys or same three people.

[Gordon]

People.

[George]

I just. In a major market, I just don't think it has happened.

[Gordon]

All right, so here's what I thought when I first tuned in and listened to you, because I came on at the Ticket as an intern in the very beginning and worked for like Skip's show in the morning. Before we were. The three of us were on the morning show. Skip Bayless was the morning show for a year and a half. Somewhere in there.

[Craig]

Yep.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

And. And I worked on Skip's morning show trying to do comedy, hilarious stuff, which we'll get to. And. And so I would tune in and listen to y' all's show and the Hard Line. And I think the three of us all agree on the Hard Line. They just. The chemistry those two guys had and the fact that they were both such different and such identifiable cartoonish characters.

[George]

Yeah, it was great.

[Craig]

Those voices, it was brilliant. Yeah.

[Gordon]

Theirs was a chemistry of opposites or difference because they both had such defined personalities that seemed very different. You guys, you had a show that was two guys who were like two halves of the same mind. Y' all were very similar. Your show felt like Mike and Greg O's show felt very, I don't know, I don't even know how to describe it. Like old West Hollywood, like two huge big two stars starring in a big Hollywood western.

[Craig]

Which is exactly what I was telling you. I felt when they wanted it to be a three man show me, I.

[Gordon]

Knew you would have been swallowed up. Yes, but you two guys had a show that came off as very collegiate. Not in the bad sense, not in that it was amateurish, but you had that sensibility. And a lot of the same way that Letterman did when he first came out on NBC had the feel of this is a show that college kids would freaking love. It had that sensibility, had that smart assness to it. It had that likability to it. It just came across as really smart to me. And I, interestingly enough, I had the same question that people sometimes ask us now, which is, do you guys script out everything y' all are gonna say? Cause it's weird the way that you all talk and then the next guy talks and it just seems to flow or whatever.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

I would listen to y' all show and go, it seems so weird how they just, they talk and then the next guy talks and the next guy talks. It's almost as if this is scripted because they flow so well together.

[George]

We just spent so much time together and we were doing a lot of the conversations that we had in the dorm room or you know, at a game now in front of microphones. And it was really hard for me, at least the formatics and everything. I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing, but again, I knew, well, if I'm just talking sports or life with Craig, then it's probably going to be okay.

[Craig]

Yeah. And we found that all the silly stuff, the stupid sports stuff that made us laugh also made the listener laugh. Just random sports names, a random utility infielder from the 70s, Rangers teams always made us laugh. And we found out if we just dropped that reference, it made the listener laugh too.

[Gordon]

And then listeners started getting in on it and they were working in references and they were going with the crutch word of the week that you guys would introduce at the beginning of the week. And everybody's challenge was to work it into conversation.

[George]

I thought that's when we had arrived, when we got John Madden to work in the crutch word of the week, which I think was vert.

[Craig]

Yeah, that's Right.

[Gordon]

He did it on a national broadcast.

[George]

Did he do it in the game or you just do it with us?

[Craig]

I think he just did it with us.

[George]

Yeah, but he said.

[Gordon]

Yeah, when you're interviewing him, just make.

[George]

Sure you don't fumble the ball in the vert, you know? Oh, my gosh.

[Gordon]

Yeah. I loved y' all show. And it wasn't a matter of probably just a few weeks until I started doing stuff with you guys. Yeah, yeah.

[George]

With Ribby.

[Gordon]

With Ribby. And, you know, it's crazy is I found my notes. I mentioned this, I think in the first episode that I found the early ticket stuff and I find references to, like the first Ribby that I ever did with you guys.

[Craig]

Oh, wow.

[George]

Take me. I'm gonna go in the draft.

[Craig]

That's great.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

But, yeah, then I started doing characters with you guys and that's a whole nother story.

[George]

Yeah, that's another story.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Gordon]

Okay. Well, I love you guys and love you too. We love you. Envelopes I'm going to hand out now and I want you to have these. There's a few notes.

[George]

Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[Gordon]

And then, then this here, I. I want you to.

[Craig]

No, no.

[George]

Hey, put it down. No, no, no, no.

[Craig]

Put it down.

[George]

Put it down.

[Gordon]

No, I'm not going to do that. All right.

[George]

This is the end.

[Gordon]

Yes, this is the end. Okay. Thank you to Peter Welton, our producer.

[George]

Thank you, Peter.

[Gordon]

Thank you, Peter. Thank you to George and Craig and thank you to all the P1s who have given us such good reaction on this. We're glad you guys are listening. Yeah, glad you're listening. Tell a friend about the Musers the podcast. And don't forget, if you haven't already.

[George]

Press, follow or subscribe on your podcast.

[Gordon]

Player so that every Wednesday morning when.

[George]

You wake up, the new episode is.

[Gordon]

There waiting for you.

[George]

The Musers the podcast is produced by.

[Gordon]

Peter Welpton and is a tired head production.