Loading summary
Transcript306 lines
- [00:02]
Unknown Speaker
On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.
- [00:30]
Craig Miller
Do we need to give Peter something for a cold open?
- [00:33]
Gordon Keith
No, he doesn't deserve it.
- [00:35]
George Dunham
Stupid cold open.
- [00:36]
Gordon Keith
He didn't deserve it. Let's give him a warm open.
- [00:39]
Craig Miller
Yeah. What about a warm open?
- [00:41]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [00:45]
Gordon Keith
The Musers, the Podcast, episode five. Fake Jerry.
- [00:51]
George Dunham
Welcome to the Musers the Podcast, episode five. And a very special episode today. Oh, we should say our next names. I'm George Dunham.
- [01:00]
Gordon Keith
I'm Gordon Keith.
- [01:01]
Craig Miller
And I'm Craig Miller.
- [01:05]
George Dunham
Yeah, it's a very special edition because we're coming to you from Dallas Cowboys training camp in Oxnard, California. Cowboys are one of the few teams that trade train for the season out of state. And it's a big deal. It's a big deal in Texas. It's a big deal all the way around the country. All 32 teams have now turned this into a big event. And before we talk about Cowboys camp and our history with it, episode four of the Musers, the podcast. I was somewhat blown away by all of the reaction we got to it via email, via Twitter. It was a pretty powerful episode, I would call it.
- [01:53]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, there were tears. Yeah, we had tears. And we had male bonding.
- [01:59]
George Dunham
And it sounds like we had people listening that were tearing up.
- [02:04]
Gordon Keith
I know. Listen to all that nonsense and you can expect it. I mean, we're talking about our dads, we're talking about tension, we're talking about wanting to feel like you're a good person, all the stuff that means something to it. And, you know, I think that guys don't talk about stuff like that very much.
- [02:21]
George Dunham
They don't. So I know I'm very guilty of that, of not being that type of person.
- [02:27]
Gordon Keith
Men, male relationships are very. Hey, man, what's up? Nothing. What's up with you? Nothing. Meanwhile, both guys have gotten divorced, lost jobs and done everything. But to them, the summary is nothing.
- [02:41]
Craig Miller
You know, I knew it'd be a good episode, like I told you guys at the end of the episode, because as we did Round Robin Muser interviewing George and I have a long story and a long history together, but we clicked immediately. And Gordo and I have a long history together. And we clicked immediately. But the two of you didn't immediately click and have had a more interesting relationship, a more interesting journey. And I think the dynamic between the two of you is of the most interest to the listener because they know George and I are good friends and Gordon and I are good friends, but they're never sure about you two.
- [03:17]
Gordon Keith
I'm never sure about us too.
- [03:19]
Craig Miller
So I think. And you're great friends and you love each other, but I think they really enjoyed hearing that backstory because that's what they're most curious about when it comes to our show. Dynamic.
- [03:28]
George Dunham
Yeah, my family got a big kick out of it. They had not heard some of those things.
- [03:33]
Gordon Keith
Well, I remember that I had heard some of those things.
- [03:35]
George Dunham
I know.
- [03:36]
Gordon Keith
I can't believe that the story about the.
- [03:38]
George Dunham
Never talked about the deleting the audio.
- [03:40]
Gordon Keith
And the prank call. Yeah, yeah, I didn't. I didn't realize that. So you, you released a. You dropped a truth bomb on me.
- [03:47]
George Dunham
And doesn't that just prove that guys can go on a car trip together for two hours and really not talk about much of anything?
- [03:54]
Gordon Keith
Right. Meantime, talk about everything but something.
- [03:58]
George Dunham
Meantime, our wives may go somewhere with their friends and they'll talk about everything over two hours time. Well, we talked about a lot on episode four.
- [04:10]
Craig Miller
And you know, we should thank everybody who has listened to these first four episodes, or at least a couple of them. Hopefully you've heard most of them, if not all of them because we've gotten great feedback. We really appreciate all of our radio show listeners also joining us on the podcast side. As we've said, this podcast is a companion piece to the radio show and the feedback has been really, really great and really thoughtful emails and text messages. I've had friends and family. Everyone seems to really enjoy the slightly different feel to the podcast compared to the radio show.
- [04:47]
George Dunham
Yeah, well, there's no doubt there's a different feel to training camp now from when we first started going to training camp with the Cowboys at one of our jobs in Dallas radio. The first training camp I went to for with The Cowboys was 1988, proving I'm a dinosaur. It was in Thousand Oaks, California, and there were maybe eight media members covering camp. There were the TV guys, a couple of riders, and I was, I think, the only radio guy there because we were the flagship station of the Cowboys. And now are there, what, 200 media members probably each year that are given credentials to cover a Cowboys camp? And I told you on a previous episode, I was given a huge break in 1988 got hired by KRLD radio in Dallas by Brad Sham, who is still the voice of the Dallas Cowboys. And after two weeks on the job, my next assignment was to go with the Cowboys to Thousand Oaks. 23 years old, just thinking, growing up a longtime Cowboys fan. Tom Landry was the coach. Tex Schramm was the general manager. We didn't know, but this is going to be the last year of the original. Gill Brandt, Tech SRAM Tom Landry, Cowboys because after the 88 season, Jerry Jones bought the team in February and everything changed. But that training camp, I got to talk to Tom Landry, talk to Tech Schramm about the Roger Ruzik training camp holdout. He was the kicker and was holding out of camp. Back then, players used to use training camp to get in shape for the season, and there were over 100 players in camp. The Cowboys had more players in camp than any other team in the NFL. And the first two weeks, it was basically all rookies, and they had tons of rookies and they cut guys every day. And it was just. It was magical to me because I was new to it. Never been to a training camp before. And I'm getting to talk to legends like Roger Staubach and Danny White.
- [07:09]
Craig Miller
Yes.
- [07:09]
George Dunham
Turned out to be Danny's final year in the NFL. But I just. I know you guys think that training camp can be very monotonous, and it can. But to this day, when I walk out and watch a practice, it's still very magical to me. The start of football season and just this whole thing and what it's become is still. It's still really cool to me.
- [07:35]
Gordon Keith
Well, I like the spectacle of it. I mean, I like all the. The glitz and glamour of it. But I don't know any of those people you just mentioned by name. Who's Roger Starbuck?
- [07:45]
George Dunham
He started a coffee company.
- [07:47]
Gordon Keith
Oh, he did? Oh.
- [07:49]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [07:51]
Craig Miller
I've always liked training camp. The practice sessions get a little monotonous to me to watch, but I like the idea of training camp. I like going to Cowboys camp. I used to like it when we went to Rangers spring training. We went to Stars training camp in Vail, Colorado, one year. And I like that because to me, camp is the calm before the storm. And everybody feels good about the season. No matter how bad your team is, everybody feels good about the season. And there's a sense of renewal, there's a sense of anticipation and optimism at any training camp. And it's this sport starting up again. It's a rebirth every year. So when you Go to Surprise, Arizona or wherever the other teams are training or here in Oxnard. There's. There's that sense of beginning, and I think that's always cool.
- [08:41]
George Dunham
We'll talk a lot about Jerry. Jerry Jones on this particular episode. And he really did change everything with training camp for the Cowboys. And I'm going to give him credit for changing it for all of the NFL. It's now a spectacle league wide, and it didn't used to be this way. And I think it started what turned out to be your first training camp. Craig was 1990. That's when the Cowboys moved out of Thousand Oaks and they moved training camp to Austin. Jimmie Johnson, the coach at the time, liked the heat element of it, and Jerry liked the element of what? If we had training camp in Texas, it would be a fan spectacle. And you remember from the very first practice, Saint Edwards University, it was packed.
- [09:28]
Craig Miller
Yes.
- [09:28]
George Dunham
And you went from 20 people at a training camp practice to, we think 5,000.
- [09:36]
Craig Miller
Yeah, probably.
- [09:37]
Gordon Keith
Okay, wait, back up for a second and educate this newbie. Why did they have. Why were the Dallas Cowboys training in Thousand Oaks? What's the idea there? Was that the NFL tradition that a team would train in several states away, Some would.
- [09:53]
George Dunham
And I think for the Cowboys it was cooler temperatures. And even though Thousand Oaks is not quite as cool as where they practice now and Oxnard, and I think it was part of the marketing of Tech Schramm, the GM and president of, who.
- [10:08]
Gordon Keith
Was kind of a Jerry Jones of his era.
- [10:11]
George Dunham
Yes, he was very influential and yes, an innovator. And because of that, it helped spread that whole America's Team narrative. Of America's team.
- [10:24]
Craig Miller
Yeah. Very few teams to this day train away from their home state. But the Cowboys, even before they went to Thousand Oaks, went to Minnesota, Oregon, Wisconsin. They had held training camp, I think, always looking for cooler temperatures, and then landed in California. And I think once they landed out here, they realized, wow, we're only a few minutes away from LA and Hollywood and we're getting a lot of attention out here and that's good for the brand. And that's a big reason why Jerry loves it out here.
- [10:54]
George Dunham
And I just remember being shocked when we started going to those practices in Austin. We shouldn't have been because it was in Texas and not too far from Dallas. And the Cowboys dominate the conversation to this day in the Lone Star State, but I think even Jerry was surprised by it. And then that's when, with each passing year, you would see more bleachers, more tents, more corporate tents, more corporate Sponsors to where we are today. And as we do this podcast from Oxnard, California. They've basically built a temporary stadium around two practice fields in the middle of nowhere next to a hotel in Oxnard, California.
- [11:39]
Craig Miller
It's almost a little city.
- [11:40]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, yeah, it's the. It's the Cowboys cancer that metastasizes. It just takes over a whole town and you get more temporary bleachers and VIP tents thrown up every year. You just see it grow and grow little by little. Till now. It's. It's taken up this whole area of town.
- [12:00]
Craig Miller
Gordo, you got to experience Austin training camp in 94, 95, when the ticket, our radio station in Dallas, first went on the air. But when George and I were at our previous job, as he mentioned, at KRLD radio in Dallas, my first assignment was they said, you're going to go to Austin. I was the low guy in the totem pole, so I had to chase tape, which meant I had to go interview players all the time and send tape back for our drive time shows. So my first assignment was to go to Austin and they gave me a room at the Doubletree Hotel there for five weeks.
- [12:33]
Gordon Keith
That is unbelievable to me. And you probably thought it was unbelievable in the good sense.
- [12:38]
Craig Miller
I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Oh, yeah, you're putting me in the great town of Austin, which back in 1990 was so great for five weeks in a hotel room and I don't have to pay for it and. And all I got to do is cover football. I thought it was the greatest assignment of my life. And back then the media used to go out a lot. And as I'll tell you here in a little bit, sometimes out with the players, which has changed quite a bit.
- [13:06]
Gordon Keith
Sometimes out with unnamed owners.
- [13:08]
Craig Miller
Yes, sometimes out with the owners, which we'll talk about here in a little bit. But the media used to be very tight knit and it makes. Maybe it's because it wasn't as many. Although when they went to Austin, the numbers certainly expanded with all the Texas media that would show up. But one story I remember, an unnamed local TV sportscaster was at a topless establishment. No, no, it wasn't that one. It wasn't that one.
- [13:37]
George Dunham
What is that, a bird?
- [13:40]
Craig Miller
But he was there with one of his cameramen and there was young woman on stage dancing for them. And the young woman on stage turned around and showed this particular sportscaster her rear end. And then she bent over and stared back at him between her legs and said at that moment, hey, my dad watches you.
- [14:12]
George Dunham
Well, and even going back to Thousand Oaks, I don't remember topless establishments, but there was a place called the Iron Horse. And every night, not just one or two nights a week, I was there for the first two weeks and only learned about this, like week two. But every night, Tech Schramm, the general manager and president of the Cowboys, would hold court with the eight members of the media who were there, and they'd go to the Iron Horse every night and close it down. It's a long time Cowboys tradition.
- [14:43]
Gordon Keith
Okay, so in circumstances like that, is it known that this is an off the record conversation?
- [14:50]
George Dunham
Yes.
- [14:50]
Gordon Keith
Like, Tex Ram would have that agreement with the reporters.
- [14:53]
George Dunham
They would talk a lot of football and there was no, you know, the writers weren't quoting him or anything like that, but it was great context for how he felt. And texts would go off on people. I remember him talking about a particular. I guess it doesn't matter now. He was talking about Steve Pelour, former Cowboys quarterback. Former Cowboys quarterback. And he was frustrated because he wasn't Roger and he wasn't Danny, but he was. They were forced to play him because Danny was late in his career and he was. Danny White was. He had a terrible wrist injury in 1986, and he never really overcame that. And I remember text saying one late one night, he goes, we have no chance with this effing idiot. I just don't.
- [15:46]
Gordon Keith
Did he say the word, though?
- [15:47]
George Dunham
Yes, he did. And he pretty much.
- [15:48]
Gordon Keith
You can say it here. It's a podcast, George.
- [15:50]
George Dunham
He pretty much predicted the 1988 season. He said, we have no chance. And he was right. They went 3 and 13. The team got sold and Tom Landry got fired. And that was the end of the story for the original Cowboy 3.
- [16:03]
Craig Miller
Social media killed all of that because in the early 90s in Austin, the exact same thing would happen with Jimmie Johnson. And after every practice or most practices, he would go across the street from St. Edwards and there was this Mexican restaurant, I think it was called El Matador.
- [16:23]
George Dunham
Yes.
- [16:24]
Craig Miller
And that's where, like, if practice ended at 4, Jimmy would be over there about 5 or 5:30, and the media would go over there and in the back room there'd be a big table. And I used to go over there all the time. And there'd be 10 media members, 15 media members sitting at a table with Jimmy, who'd be drinking beer and eating chips and a burrito. And he was just holding court, just like Tex used to. And he was talking no holds barred about players, coaches on his staff who he liked who pissed him off that day, who upset him. Nobody was taking notes. Nobody ever said, you know, the next day went on their radio show or TV show or wrote about what Jimmy said. It was just. And Jimmy could be open like that because he knew no one was going to go talk about it. No one was rolling tape on it. No one was posting on Twitter about it. And that would never happen today.
- [17:19]
George Dunham
I think you're right. Yeah.
- [17:20]
Craig Miller
Jimmy would never, ever, ever do that today because they would know that the second they said something about a player or one of their assistants, it would be on Twitter a second later and go viral. And he'd have a big headache.
- [17:34]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [17:35]
Craig Miller
Isn't that crazy?
- [17:37]
Gordon Keith
It's changed so much. And I wonder if it, if it's better now. Is it better that there's no, like, there's just, you gotta be transparent all the time, or is there some value to the off the record?
- [17:51]
George Dunham
They're still off the record. That exists. But I think those who. If you're in the NFL, you have to be really careful about it because if you're not, then. And you're holding court at a bar, all of a sudden, that may be on Twitter that night. Or Instagram.
- [18:10]
Gordon Keith
Yeah. And plus everybody carries around personal spy devices with phones. You can roll tape, roll video, or.
- [18:17]
George Dunham
If you're at a Coldplay concert or something like that.
- [18:20]
Gordon Keith
How has Jerry never been busted at a Coldplay concert?
- [18:24]
Craig Miller
Well, and it also would help the reporter inform their opinion. So you heard Tex Shram say that about Steve Pelour. So maybe if you're on with Brad Sham the next day, you had insight to what the Cowboys really felt about their quarterback without actually quoting Tech Schramm.
- [18:46]
George Dunham
Right.
- [18:46]
Craig Miller
But it helped. You sound like a more knowledgeable reporter.
- [18:49]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [18:49]
Craig Miller
And I don't know if that's good or bad because you're using off the record material and you're not attributing it, so you're not violating any code of confidence. But. But you do have this insight that I don't. I think it's a lot harder to get now because you don't have those informal gatherings and you're not really hearing Jimmy talk about what he feels about that offensive lineman. So you're having to guess a little more now about how he feels.
- [19:14]
George Dunham
Yeah. And I still think those, those conversations exist. I just think those in this case an NFL team, I think they are very guarded about it and much more guarded than they were 20, 30 years ago. And the Cowboys are such an interesting study. We talk about them a lot in Dallas, Fort Worth. But isn't it amazing when we watch national networks, sports networks, where would ESPN daily sports conversation shows be without the Cowboys? Even in the off season, it seems like they are the lead story. What do you really think about Dak Prescott? And these dudes have not won anything.
- [20:02]
Gordon Keith
I don't get it. In 30 years, how can they still be America's team? You know what I'm saying? In the how. Why are they still so popular?
- [20:10]
Craig Miller
It's just it, it's a grandfathered in brand.
- [20:14]
George Dunham
Yes. It's like the Yankees, they went, they had a dry spell from the 70s to the 90s and yet in the 80s they were always in the baseball conversation because of Steinbrenner. George Steinbrenner was bigger than life, just like Jerry is. Notre Dame has always been a big brand and still is. Even though they're not the most successful college football program of the last 30 years.
- [20:42]
Craig Miller
They haven't won a title since 1988, but they still are the only college football team with their own TV network deal.
- [20:49]
George Dunham
Yeah, and it's just, it's that brand.
- [20:52]
Craig Miller
When the brand gets so big, okay. But it takes a lot to bring it down.
- [20:56]
Gordon Keith
But will the Patriots be a brand even if they have 30 years of bad luck and horrible teams?
- [21:04]
Craig Miller
I don't think so because they weren't America's team. The Cowboys got to that top of the mountain first and claimed it. And they have 50, 60 years of history entrenched where the Cowboys were America's team and the Patriots were a joke for a long time. And the Cowboys had a 30 year head start on being America's team over the Patriots. And then the Patriots got great for 20 years and now they may be bad for 20 years. They just don't have that history that the Cowboys have. When you are the Yankees and you plant that flag at the top of the mountain first, we are the baseball franchise of record. Or you're the Celtics or Lakers and you plant that flag. Or the Cowboys in this case, it's hard to unseat that team.
- [21:49]
Gordon Keith
Okay, but George, you mentioned something that may be an X factor in all this. You mentioned the Yankees had Steinbrenner. Is there something to having a made for TV villain slash controversial character as your leader that keeps you in a national conversation more than if you had the generic behind the scenes corporate owner?
- [22:12]
George Dunham
Absolutely. And he's very good at. I do wonder in some pockets of this country if Jerry is almost a laughingstock. But he's still talked about and he's still brought up as, hey, can you believe what he said? And if Jerry is not at the top of this organization, I wonder if it will continue because culturally, everyone's about to age out of legendary cowboy stories. You know, the generation, kids in their 20s and 30s, they don't remember the Cowboys being great. They just, they have seen this futility now for three decades.
- [22:47]
Gordon Keith
You know what I think would have always been a great idea. And I'm actually surprised that Jerry and family have not done this because they are the most Hollywood ready NFL family there is. Why have they not done a reality show?
- [23:04]
Craig Miller
Well, that's a good question, because it's a great question.
- [23:07]
Gordon Keith
If they. They certainly seem to have thick skin because the stuff that they tolerate, the slings and arrows they tolerate through the media, are unbelievable. They have all the drama that's ready made for TV with Jerry's lawsuits and everything. If they had been filming the past six years of the Jones family, then it would have been the number one reality show on television. And they already show that they make compelling content. You know, those cheerleader shows have done extremely well for the Cowboys. I mean, great for them. And Jerry could have had his own Jones family show.
- [23:43]
George Dunham
You watch the numbers this fall when the Netflix documentary on the Cowboys comes out. And I think to a lot of us who are close to it, it's going to be frustrating because it's the same old thing we hear from Jerry about, oh, you know, that we're doing this, we're doing that, and yet no results on the field. And he'll talk about the good old days of the 90s, which no one remembers. But you watch those numbers when Netflix does that this fall, they'll be huge.
- [24:10]
Craig Miller
Yeah.
- [24:11]
George Dunham
And there will be some, I think, some candid moments where. Can you believe he said that to his daughter or to a client or to a fan or. Yeah. And this is basically the reality show that we're going to see. And hey, I watched the season two of the Cowboy of America's Sweethearts. That show's huge.
- [24:31]
Gordon Keith
Yeah.
- [24:32]
George Dunham
And Tim Cowlishaw, a writer in Dallas, had a great line that that show was so big that fans of the Cowboys right now know cheerleader rookies better than they do this year's draft class, and he may be right about that.
- [24:47]
Gordon Keith
Well, it's very smart that they do that show. I've watched the second season. It's great. I love that. I love seeing that. And they, they should absolutely make that more of a franchise, do even more of those shows. And I wish it Was a little bit more uncontrolled. I get the feeling, like, that they keep those cheerleaders pretty locked down.
- [25:05]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [25:05]
Gordon Keith
They need more drama. They need more drama in that show.
- [25:09]
George Dunham
And I don't think Jerry minds it if there's a little bit of drama stirred up.
- [25:12]
Gordon Keith
Well, it's the weird dual nature of the Jones family. I think that they hate the drama, and then they also love it. I don't. I can't quite figure them out.
- [25:20]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [25:21]
Gordon Keith
You know, but I mean, if they had. Imagine the reality show. If they had followed the whole lawsuit, Jerry Jones, paternity lawsuit, and it was on a reality show, and Jones having to deal with it and then showing Jerry having to go in and order the yacht for Gene and I mean, it would have been unbelievable.
- [25:39]
Craig Miller
Do they not do a reality show because they feel like they live it every day, that the microscope is on them every day? They're always talked about, as George said, on espn, every day on the ticket, every day, local tv, that they feel like they're living it. And they have for 35, 40 years.
- [25:57]
Gordon Keith
I'm sure part of them does feel that way, But I'm saying they need to embrace the dirty laundry.
- [26:05]
George Dunham
Yeah. Maybe their reality show is just the day to day.
- [26:08]
Gordon Keith
Yeah.
- [26:09]
George Dunham
Think how many interviews Jerry does in the course of a week.
- [26:12]
Craig Miller
Yeah.
- [26:12]
Gordon Keith
A man who's never learned to talk does more interviews than most humans.
- [26:18]
George Dunham
It is amazing, isn't it? So when you listen to him talk, this is a guy who has transformed the NFL from a financial standpoint. I give him full credit on that. From how you maximize training camp to corporate sponsorships to TV deals. He was the one that said, let's go talk to Fox. That sounded like an absurd idea back in the 1990s. It turned out to be just a boom for the NFL. All the real estate deals, oil and gas, catering company. Can we all agree that he is a business genius?
- [26:58]
Craig Miller
Yes.
- [26:59]
George Dunham
He's got to be.
- [26:59]
Gordon Keith
Sure.
- [27:00]
George Dunham
But when you hear him talk.
- [27:02]
Gordon Keith
I know.
- [27:03]
George Dunham
How do those two things add up?
- [27:04]
Gordon Keith
It doesn't make sense. He. He rarely finishes a sentence. Well.
- [27:12]
Craig Miller
Are people okay with it? Because he's the Arkansas hillbilly. That's just his Persona. And you're not expecting that person to sound like James Bond.
- [27:23]
Gordon Keith
Oh, yeah. I think that that is what saves him, is he's got that charisma and charm of the bumbling Arkansas. I'm about to say idiot, but I'll go ahead and say it.
- [27:34]
Craig Miller
He's not an idiot.
- [27:35]
Gordon Keith
He's not an idiot at all. But to Hear him talk is. It's cartoonish. That's a much better term than idiot in this case. And when you become cartoonish, you. You can get away with anything.
- [27:48]
Craig Miller
Yeah.
- [27:48]
George Dunham
And I remember, and now in the early days, from that very first press conference, and I was there that night that he fired Tom Landry. I was about 15ft away from Jerry Jones. I couldn't believe what I was witnessing. And I remember at the time thinking, this guy makes absolutely no sense. And he got barbecued for the first couple of years in Dallas, and then they had that unbelievable run where they won three Super Bowls in four years. So that gave him credibility.
- [28:17]
Gordon Keith
Were some people predicting that he wouldn't last, like, after he came out of the gate? And it had people.
- [28:21]
George Dunham
I don't know about last, but it wouldn't work. Oh, this is never going to work. This guy has no idea what he's doing hiring a college coach.
- [28:27]
Craig Miller
Yeah.
- [28:27]
George Dunham
You know, the Jimmy Johnson thing was seen as very controversial.
- [28:31]
Craig Miller
Rotating defensive lineman. That's college stuff.
- [28:34]
George Dunham
You can't do that in the NFL. But. And that gave him credibility there. He doesn't have a lot of football credibility now, but he has business credibility. And isn't he literally grandfathered in? Because now don't we just see him as a. It's just, you know, grandpa up there, and he's been around forever, and he starts telling these. He gets choked up. He gets choked up all the time when he talks about it. And it's just like an old guy kind of talking about his life. And I think that's endearing to a lot of people.
- [29:08]
Gordon Keith
Yeah. I get suckered in when he gets choked up.
- [29:10]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [29:11]
Gordon Keith
Like, I want to hear his stories, and I. Of course, I love stories of men who get reflective as they get older. And what he's learned is, particularly men who have lived as brashly as Jerry has. To look back over his life, I would really love to hear. I mean, I could listen to a whole hour of him talking about the regrets that he has in his life if he's being honest and vulnerable.
- [29:34]
George Dunham
When he made the appearance on Landman, is that what it was? It was seen as a great acting job, but I think Jerry just channeled what he goes through as a businessman and in a family business. And he did a great job because that is acting. It's not easy to do, but it was great. And I think he was, again, another part of the reality show that he lives every day, and he jumps right into a very popular show, and he does that, and he does it Well.
- [30:08]
Gordon Keith
I know it was great. It was kind of moving.
- [30:10]
Craig Miller
Yeah.
- [30:11]
Gordon Keith
To talk about it. The whole thing is he's such an enigma to me because to behave as unfamiliar man like as he has at times and then to have a family that is still that close to him and that he works with and the tightness of that family and we've talked about it before here, you know, it's just an amazing story that is full of endless frustration too for the regular cowboy fan who sees Jerry as the both the architect and the impediment to the greatness of the cowboys.
- [30:48]
Unknown Speaker
After Zoomie's at the dog park, it's time for Drive up at Target. In goes a big bag of kibble and one squeaky chicken toy for the good boy. Drive Up. That's ready when you are. Only in the Target app, just tap Target. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want, like that dream house or ride, is a great feeling. That's why the State Farm personal price plan can help you save when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [31:30]
Craig Miller
Not all meals are created equal. For instance, breakfast has the spicy egg McMuffin for a limited time and lunch doesn't.
- [31:40]
Gordon Keith
McDonald's breakfast comes first.
- [31:44]
Craig Miller
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
- [32:07]
Unknown Speaker
Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month.
- [32:09]
Gordon Keith
Required new customer offer for first three months only.
- [32:11]
Unknown Speaker
Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra.
- [32:13]
Craig Miller
See mintmobile.com Outside of Jerry, I would say in Dallas, Fort Worth, the person that has done more to paint and construct his image is you, Gordon, with your impersonation of Jerry. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt that that has has in the mind of Cowboys fans who also listen to our radio station in Dallas. That is how they see Jerry is through your impersonation of him.
- [32:42]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, it's kind of because it's a caricature of him. He's already a caricature, has a life that's like a caricature. And then started doing that voice. And I can't even remember exactly how it started. I'm pretty sure it started on this show. You guys asked me if I could do a Jerry Jones back in year.
- [33:01]
Craig Miller
One or two 90s.
- [33:03]
Gordon Keith
And I started off with that ridiculous voice, which does not sound like him. That talking down like this and everything, doing that positivity. And. Yeah, because he gave us so much material, we could do him often. And then we're doing him so often that he just becomes the mainstay character in a lot of ways, I guess. Jerry Jones has given me a career.
- [33:27]
Craig Miller
It's your signature character.
- [33:29]
George Dunham
It is. People absolutely love it, including us. And I think in the early years when you were impersonating him, I think there was confusion with him as exactly who you were and which one of us did the voice. I remember when I got hired to do Public Address, he told me, he said, and I don't want to hear my voice. My fake voice coming over them speakers out there. And I think that was his way of saying, or asking, do you do the fake Jones? And I didn't. But do you remember when he first figured out, okay, that's the guy who impersonates me?
- [34:06]
Gordon Keith
I don't know when he first figured it out. I mean, I've had to. It's been reintroduced to him a few times. You know, it'd be the PR director, Rich at the time, you know, would mention to Jerry, this is the guy that does you your fake voice. And then Jerry would always light up and shake my hand. And he was very thrilled, I guess, in some way that because he hears about it enough that he's meeting the guy who imitates him. Like, I think he feels it some way flattering.
- [34:37]
Craig Miller
Isn't that interesting?
- [34:38]
Gordon Keith
Which, if you listen to the content, it's the least flattering stuff you could possibly do about another human.
- [34:44]
George Dunham
But I know not only does it play well with a listening audience and with us, but I know for a fact, at least back in the day with the Cowboys organization, I once had two scouts come up to me, put their arms around me and say when he talked, oh, this is actually another impersonation you were doing of Chan Gailey.
- [35:05]
Craig Miller
At the time.
- [35:08]
George Dunham
When he. When he was the head coach of the Cowboys. And your fake character said that he painted the dog toenails red and moved the family to Alabama. Yeah.
- [35:19]
Gordon Keith
Betrayed him. Real simple and real country like.
- [35:23]
George Dunham
And I know they. They quoted several Other fake Jerry comments. To me, it plays well in the building. Long. A long way away from Jerry's off.
- [35:33]
Gordon Keith
They make sure they're way down the hall with the door shut when they listen to it.
- [35:37]
George Dunham
Listening to it. Yeah. But I think it's played well for them too.
- [35:40]
Craig Miller
I remember one time when we were talking to Jerry about this, about the fake Jerry, and he was with somebody else, I can't remember, and he said, oh yeah, these are the guys that do the fake Jerry voice on their show. And then he turned to one of his buddies and hit him and goes. And they really give it to Jerry Jr too. Like Jerry thought that was funny.
- [36:00]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, that is so was being skewered, which is great. That I can't believe that they. So he's aware of some of the content that's on there. Yeah, but once again, the thick skin of Jerry, he just lets it roll off of him.
- [36:15]
George Dunham
Because you're talking about him and you're talking about the Cowboys.
- [36:18]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, but George, we're talking about him so personally and so derogatorily.
- [36:25]
George Dunham
I know.
- [36:25]
Gordon Keith
Derogatory. Derogatorily.
- [36:28]
George Dunham
So as the. As the new show hits Netflix, we were informed by you, Gordon.
- [36:34]
Gordon Keith
Yes, sir.
- [36:35]
George Dunham
That all of a sudden you're gonna be on the Cartoon Network impersonating Jerry.
- [36:41]
Gordon Keith
So, yeah, Hollywood came a call in for me and I've told a little bit of this story before, but I started getting these emails from a woman who claimed she was a Hollywood casting agent. And I'm really bad about returning emails and going through it. I mean, I have emails stacked up from about 15 years of stuff I'm getting around to rece responding to. So I see it. I didn't respond and I saw she sent a follow up. Don't respond. Third one, fourth one. I just. Okay, I'll get to it, I'll get to it. So time goes on and eventually my. Our boss from the radio station in Dallas, he says, hey, this woman called me up. She's a casting director for Warner Brothers in la and they're trying to get a hold of you and you won't respond to their emails. She asked if I could get a hold of you.
- [37:28]
George Dunham
Welcome to our world.
- [37:30]
Gordon Keith
So I felt horrible, of course, and I responded to her and everything. And she says, yeah, there's this new show and it has Jerry Jones in it. And the. One of the creators has been asking that, you know, want you to read for it to come in and read for this part of Jerry Jones. And so I said, yeah, that sounds good to me. And she set it up. We had this big zoom call and I was pretty intimidated by this because it's like never done anything like that before in my life. I'm gonna read for a part on a national show as a. In that ridiculous voice. And so when it comes time for the zoom call, you know, there's all those people in the room and I have to do the Jerry voice. And they were great and nice and lo and behold, I get the follow up after that meeting that, yeah, you know, you got the deal. Where do we send the contract to? What's your agent's name? I said what agent? I need to do agent. I don't have agent. So I get this. Hollywood. I have a Hollywood Reporter story here.
- [38:35]
George Dunham
Okay.
- [38:35]
Gordon Keith
Okay. Very official headline. Adult Swim, which is what this cartoon is going to be on the Adult Swim block of programming. Adult Swim tackles Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and latest series Keeping up with the Joneses will follow a family trying to fit in with their wealthy Dallas neighbors. Okay, so that's the headline. Okay, so wait till you hear how much I mention in here. Like, it's pretty impressive. Adult Swim's newest series will brush up against the world of the NFL or at least its most famous team owner. The cable network has ordered a series called Keeping up with the Joneses from creator Hugh Davidson. Which is the guy that tracked me down, found me. He used to live in Texas. Big spurs fan, Rachel Ramirez, Larry Dorff, Those are the three creators and producers. The 10 episode half hour show will chronicle the Newbery family of Dallas as they try to keep up with their staggeringly wealthy neighbors, including Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, who lives next door. The animated version of Jones, Get Ready. Will be a character in the series though voiced by an actor, not Jones himself. So that's pretty big. Yes.
- [39:56]
Craig Miller
Hollywood Reporter can't specifically identify you when.
- [40:00]
Gordon Keith
You'Re such a non quantity like I am. You just reference as an actor.
- [40:04]
Craig Miller
Well, you know what?
- [40:05]
Gordon Keith
But that's an upgrade for me because I'm not even an actor.
- [40:08]
Craig Miller
After the show comes out, then they'll know your name. They'll all.
- [40:11]
Gordon Keith
They'll all know my name. Yeah. So yeah, it's going to be on and I think I still need to get the date on this.
- [40:20]
George Dunham
And by the way, every time I take a swim through Adult Swim, I got funny.
- [40:27]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, this the same. It's the same group of people who did the Mike Tyson mysteries for anyone who saw that. Which was funny because Mike Tyson himself played himself in that cartoon series, which was like a very vulgar Scooby Doo takeoff, Mike Tyson cussing. But that's gonna be huge. I mean, like, that was one of my childhood dreams, was to be a, you know, a cartoon voice. Yeah.
- [40:51]
Craig Miller
So you've recorded all of these?
- [40:54]
Gordon Keith
They're all in the can. We did 10 episodes, and we. I would go in the studio. I probably went in like, three or four times. And we record multiple episodes in Dallas or in Dallas. So I'd go in Dallas, and they'd be on, like, a iPad, you know, facetiming from.
- [41:10]
George Dunham
Would you get reaction? Would people laugh when you deliver a line, or is it just very sterile?
- [41:16]
Gordon Keith
Well, yeah, no. Afterwards, the creators, who were Hugh and Larry and Rachel, they were all on there, and they would laugh after I would do a line after I'd finished the recording of it and everything, or they would give me just direction of. Yeah, don't do a little bit less than that.
- [41:32]
George Dunham
Okay. So will Jerry watch this?
- [41:37]
Craig Miller
Good question.
- [41:38]
Gordon Keith
I think so. I mean, it's a national cartoon that involves him. Someone's gonna show him the clips of it and everything. And so that gives me even more ammo to go up and shake hands at Jerry and say, hey, I'm. I'm the guy who does you on national TV now.
- [41:52]
Craig Miller
So did you use the fake Jerry voice that you use on the radio show, or did you use the toned down one?
- [41:59]
Gordon Keith
I use the. The one that we've done for forever. The really. The one that doesn't sound like him.
- [42:05]
George Dunham
Show us the difference. Yeah, illustrate the differences.
- [42:09]
Gordon Keith
So real Jerry, he talks a little bit more like a real human. I'm actually not doing too well right now. But, you know, we. We do. Doing good. You know, he talks more like that. But the really, really fake one is all this kind of stuff. It's way down in here. Much more rough.
- [42:25]
Craig Miller
God, and that is funnier. That is the one you should have used.
- [42:29]
Gordon Keith
Yeah. And it's. It's much more cartoony. And as I told you guys before, I was. I had recorded, like, three episodes in the can when it dawned on me that I forgot to tell the creators, hey, there's another option. I do have a Jerry that I can do more accurately. You know, when I listen to a reference tape of him and then immediately do it, I can get his voice pretty close. Like, no, no, dude, we like what you're doing here.
- [42:52]
Craig Miller
Okay?
- [42:54]
Gordon Keith
So for better, for worse, that version of fake Jerry's voice has become canon.
- [42:59]
Craig Miller
Do you get more people coming up to you when they talk about your voices, asking about or commenting on the fake Jerry, compared to any other voice you do?
- [43:08]
Gordon Keith
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [43:10]
George Dunham
It's got to be. You're right. Yeah. And think about that. So the Cowboys and Jerry are talked about nationwide, all the networks, the Fox pregame show on a Sunday. What's their lead story even if The Cowboys are 2 and 5. Well, trouble in Dallas is, you know, Dak on the hot seat or whoever the coach happens to be. That was the Mike McCarthy question they got asked for two years before we got our answer after the season. So now in the. The platform of the Cartoon Network, even the Cowboys are going to be.
- [43:48]
Gordon Keith
How many other NFL owners are portrayed on the Cartoon Network?
- [43:52]
George Dunham
Average NFL fan? How many NFL owners can you name outside of Jerry? How many can they name in fact.
- [43:59]
Craig Miller
In the history of sports? You mentioned Steinbrenner earlier and he was referenced in pop culture on Seinfeld.
- [44:06]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [44:08]
Craig Miller
Is it Steinbrenner and Jerry? Are they the only owners that are referenced in pop culture ever? Pro sports owners?
- [44:16]
George Dunham
I can't. I mean, I can't think of another.
- [44:20]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, Crafty. Made it into the vernacular there for a while.
- [44:22]
George Dunham
Well, your. Especially yours, you were. You never knew who he was.
- [44:26]
Gordon Keith
Robert Kraft getting a rubbing tug.
- [44:29]
Craig Miller
Jerry Buss, Robert Kraft, Al Davis. There've been some.
- [44:33]
George Dunham
Davis, very notable.
- [44:35]
Craig Miller
But I don't know that those even crossed over into pop culture the way Jerry and Steinbrenner did.
- [44:41]
Gordon Keith
Well, Mark Cuban, I mean, Dallas has another nationally known owner and Mark Cuban, because he has so many other business ventures. You know, Shark Tank did wonders for Mark Cuban.
- [44:52]
George Dunham
It did, but look at Cuban. And I think there were other reasons why he got out of ownership, but he didn't last as long as Jerry. Jerry's been doing this since 1989 and he's a lot older than Cuban and he's not slowing down. He. He's just as active now as he was 35 years ago.
- [45:15]
Gordon Keith
He just cries more, gets choked up more.
- [45:19]
George Dunham
How much longer do you think he'll do it? How much longer do you think he will be the visible out in front owner of The Cowboys?
- [45:27]
Gordon Keith
He's 82. How old is.
- [45:29]
Craig Miller
He'll be 82 in October, I think.
- [45:31]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [45:32]
Craig Miller
Is that right? I think he's 81 now. He's either turning 82 or 83. Yeah, well, his biological clock would say that he's not going to do this any more than about five to seven more years. I can't see him doing this when he's 90. I don't think there's any way he's doing it when he's 90.
- [45:53]
Gordon Keith
How young is the hobo heart he's on right now?
- [45:56]
Craig Miller
This is hobo heart number four.
- [45:58]
George Dunham
So you don't know that he has a hobo heart.
- [46:01]
Gordon Keith
When you're that rich and famous, you have a stable of hobos that give you their organs when you need them.
- [46:08]
George Dunham
Before he leaves this plane, will he ever lift the Lombardi Trophy again?
- [46:11]
Craig Miller
I don't think so. No, I don't think so.
- [46:15]
George Dunham
Even though NFL odds would say that he would.
- [46:19]
Craig Miller
But he continues to defy every year.
- [46:24]
George Dunham
Yeah, I don't think he will either. But in training camp, you always think.
- [46:29]
Craig Miller
Well, maybe, what if?
- [46:32]
Gordon Keith
So I should try to approach him this training camp and tell him, break the news to him. I'm gonna break the news to him and say, hey, look, I just want you to know that there's a cartoon of you that's about to come out nationally, and I. I have wronged you, and I just want to apologize for what you're about to see, and then just walk away and see if he has any reaction.
- [46:53]
Craig Miller
You know what? You should go up to him. Maybe not say that, but you should inform him that you're doing his voice on a national cartoon. See what his reaction would be.
- [47:02]
Gordon Keith
It will be of utter confusion. That's what his reaction will be when I tell him, hey, I'm gonna be doing a cartoon you on Adult Swim, and then walk away. You think he's gonna understand any part of that?
- [47:12]
Craig Miller
No, no.
- [47:15]
George Dunham
Outside of the fact that I was just about to ask the question, does he already know? And I think my answer is yes.
- [47:21]
Gordon Keith
Really?
- [47:21]
George Dunham
I bet somebody has told him.
- [47:23]
Craig Miller
You think so?
- [47:23]
George Dunham
And he goes through. I mean, I wonder this. Do you think Jerry still goes through the physical paper, or do you think he reads online? Because he always used to do that. And the Dallas Morning News did a story on this a few months back, so.
- [47:39]
Gordon Keith
They did.
- [47:40]
George Dunham
Yes. I bet he has seen.
- [47:42]
Gordon Keith
I know that.
- [47:43]
George Dunham
Yeah. I read it to you about a month ago.
- [47:45]
Gordon Keith
The PR department listen to what you.
- [47:46]
Craig Miller
Say with the Cowboys forever. Used to. Because I don't know if Jerry went through the paper, but they used to photocopy all of the stories of the day from all the different papers, staple.
- [47:57]
Gordon Keith
It together, give it to Jerry like a presidential briefing.
- [48:00]
Craig Miller
Like a briefing. And that's what he would go through every day. And you know what? He's in his 80s. They may still do that. That may be his preferred way of digesting the news of the day. So I'm sure they would have put that in there. Now, whether he read it Whether he goes through and reads every page every day, I don't know.
- [48:16]
Gordon Keith
I don't know that he can read.
- [48:20]
George Dunham
He can. And he listens and he watches because he loves.
- [48:25]
Gordon Keith
He loves him.
- [48:26]
George Dunham
Reveling in. Yes, yes. He loves him some him.
- [48:29]
Craig Miller
He loves the Egyptian.
- [48:30]
George Dunham
It's a lot like to. For sure. Alright, well, was that not fun?
- [48:34]
Craig Miller
And this was cool because it was our first podcast broadcast remotely. We're recording this in California. It's always fun to come out here. It's our first road podcast.
- [48:45]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, we've already taken the podcast on the road, which is great. And there's no better place to do it than out here in LA LA Land, as I like to call this area of California, which, you know, has been pretty awesome. Not only weather wise, obviously, but my weird friendship with Dax Shepard and Kristen Bell, that's happened several times here at training camp. I used to always, there's something weird going on there. What do you mean?
- [49:12]
George Dunham
I don't know.
- [49:13]
Gordon Keith
That sounds like an accusation. No, I mean it was one time when we were sitting probably just about 10ft from where we are right now, where I got a text from Dax saying, you know, you're in California, you know, you've got to come see us. It may have been the first time I actually got together with him in person outside of, you know, movie junkets or something like that. And he invited me, said, hey, we're having a surprise. We're having a pool party, birthday party for Kristen Bell, his wife, and you need to come by and be our special guest.
- [49:49]
George Dunham
Just show up and cut off.
- [49:50]
Gordon Keith
I was her surprise guest and I showed up and she was sweet. She came running, jumped in my arms and everything. And I remember Kristen Bell wrapped around me thinking, what is my life again? I don't understand.
- [50:03]
Craig Miller
Wow.
- [50:04]
Gordon Keith
Where I am or what's happening right now, that's something. Yeah. And that was from right here. I left right here from this broadcast booth to go there to their house.
- [50:12]
Craig Miller
Certainly we can get one or both of them on our new podcast. Sure, right.
- [50:17]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, I'd like it to happen.
- [50:20]
George Dunham
Yeah.
- [50:20]
Craig Miller
Because I'm a huge fan of hers. I love him too, from Idiocracy. But I've, I've seen more of her.
- [50:26]
Gordon Keith
Yeah.
- [50:27]
Craig Miller
And she's.
- [50:28]
Gordon Keith
Well, he's huge in the podcast world. You know, his career has really gone more podcast than even acting now. I mean, his Armchair expert podcast is always in the top and I was one of his first guests in his first season of Armchair Expert.
- [50:43]
George Dunham
Does he know that there's the muse the podcast or is he like Jerry and has no idea?
- [50:47]
Gordon Keith
Oh, interesting. I haven't mentioned it to him. So unless he reads the trades and saw the information about the muses of the podcast there, he doesn't know about it.
- [50:58]
Craig Miller
I love coming out to California because it's so different from Dallas, Fort Worth, especially this time of year.
- [51:05]
Gordon Keith
You come out here, it's like mixing a little strange.
- [51:07]
Craig Miller
A constant 75 degrees and an ocean breeze and mountains and water. I do remember talking to somebody who was running a shop out here, and she was from Texas, and she had asked, what are you doing out here? I said, work covering the Cowboys on training camp. Oh, I grew up in Texas. I said, well, how do you like living out here? She said, it's great, except every day is exactly the same and I do miss 100 degrees and 32 degrees and seasons and leaves falling. And she goes, we never get any of that because every day is perfect, but it's exactly the same.
- [51:49]
George Dunham
I guess that would get to you like anything, but I'd like to try it at some point. Yeah. Bore me with perfect.
- [51:56]
Gordon Keith
Bore me with perfection. Let's do it.
- [52:00]
George Dunham
Did you think that maybe someday you would wind up in California, Gordo, as being. Yes, I really aspiring actor, now that you're identified as an actor.
- [52:09]
Gordon Keith
I remember this was probably year, I don't know, six of the radio station down to the ticket, you know, working there. And I remember thinking around that time, you know, if I'm going to move to Los Angeles to be in the creative field as a writer or performer, I don't know. But I need to make the move now. And here we are 20, 25 years later.
- [52:36]
George Dunham
Turns out it was just doing the fake Jerry for 30 years that would eventually get.
- [52:39]
Gordon Keith
You do fake Jerry for 30 years, then Hollywood will call you. You. And that was my magic formula to success. No, it was. Which is a real interesting discussion of how much do you author your own life and lead your own life, and how much do you. Do you appreciate where you are? And then how much do you decide to break everything that you have right now to go and try something new? And there's no right answer to it. It's something that everyone has to face. Do you take the security and if you have a great thing going, which the station in Dallas is a great thing, it's a dream job. Do you leave the dream job for another dream job that you're hoping to get? And I remember facing that life decision and I looked at everything and thought that I am happy enough where I am with my parents in town. This is my hometown. I loved our show. I loved what we were doing. And it felt very strange to me to say that all is not good enough for me. I'm gonna try to shoot for the stars and roll the dice and see if I get something better. And part of it is personality. You know, I worry about myself. If I came out here and failed horribly, what would that do to my spirit? Does it send me spiraling into addiction, which I have leanings towards that anyway, or if I was a success. I was also scared of success, too. I was scared of both things changing my life so much because I've always felt very unequipped to handle my own life. And I was afraid of throwing huge variables at it. Now, maybe if I had been a stronger, more confident person that could handle anything thrown my way and that I was always going to end up on top of the pile that I had built, then that would be something else. But I've never felt that way. I've always felt a little bit scared of both good and bad.
- [54:43]
George Dunham
You know, that's interesting. I think a lot of people maybe have the idea of the dream job and it may be the wrong thing.
- [54:50]
Gordon Keith
Yeah.
- [54:51]
George Dunham
Or it may not be what turns out to be what their true dream really is.
- [54:57]
Gordon Keith
Look, there's no way the career that we, the three of us, have had in Dallas radio, there's no way that was my dream job. If you would have asked me that 30 years ago. But clearly, clearly in my life, as I look over the vast wasteland that is my life, that was my dream job all along. And I never would have predicted it and never would have chosen it, but it found me and kept me fat. Put food on the table, you know, that I could over consume. But it was a dream job that I never had the dream of.
- [55:38]
George Dunham
Yeah, I'm glad it didn't work out for me. I think being a boat designer would have been a really boring life.
- [55:43]
Gordon Keith
Yeah.
- [55:45]
George Dunham
And we wouldn't have been doing this.
- [55:46]
Craig Miller
And I wanted to be an astronaut, but thankfully I found my way to AM radio.
- [55:51]
Gordon Keith
Yeah, see, there?
- [55:52]
George Dunham
See, it all worked out.
- [55:53]
Gordon Keith
Falling short of your dreams is a dream come true.
- [55:58]
George Dunham
Well, if we're around after our trip to California, we'll do an episode six. How about that?
- [56:03]
Gordon Keith
Okay, let's do it. I dare you.
- [56:06]
Craig Miller
Five episodes in the books already.
- [56:08]
Gordon Keith
No, no.
- [56:10]
Craig Miller
It seems like we've only been at this for about four weeks, but we've.
- [56:13]
George Dunham
Had it for five, three, maybe four.
- [56:15]
Craig Miller
That's incredible.
- [56:16]
Gordon Keith
Lose all perspective of time.
- [56:18]
George Dunham
See you guys next week, okay?
- [56:23]
Gordon Keith
The Musers the podcast can be found across social media or you can contact them via email. Themuserspodmail.com the Musers the podcast is a tired head production.