Heartbreak & Hantavirus - Episode 52

Summary

The Musers The Podcast

Episode 52: Heartbreak & Hantavirus
Released: July 29, 2026
Hosts: George Dunham, Craig “Junior” Miller, Gordon Keith
Special Appearances: “Muffin” the puppet

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Musers showcases the trio’s signature absurdity, banter, and insight as they weave between tales of potential hantavirus scares, home appliance nostalgia, car trouble, the economics of bottled water, and a deep dive into the data and personal stories behind falling in love and heartbreak. Along the way, they share listener letters and road trip memories, all captured with their trademark wit and warmth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hantavirus Hysteria & “Rodent Activity”

[00:02–06:10]

• Gordon opens by confiding he’s worried he’s “hanted up,” referencing a potential hantavirus scare following a rodent cleanup at home.

• The Musers swap stories about caution (or the lack of it) when handling “rodent activity” (a euphemism for mouse/rat droppings):

  • Gordon: Cleaned with a HEPA-filtered vacuum but only used a t-shirt as a “mask.”
  • Craig: Did the same, but with a shop-vac and no mask—only gloves.
  • George: Is next in line to clean his “outdoor area,” now sufficiently paranoid.

• Discussion of symptoms, exposure risk, and the infamous (but apocryphal) rumor about Gene Hackman’s wife.

• They riff on the lack of contagiousness:

  • George: “I started to step away from him last night. He goes, I can’t. This is not contagious. I said, well, how do you know?” [07:00]
  • Gordon: “As long as one of us doesn’t have a mouthful of rat droppings.” [07:17]

• Musers Wisdom: Always use a real mask and a HEPA filter for clean-up. Don’t rely on urban legends or t-shirts for safety.

2. Bottled Water, Appliances, and American Nostalgia

[11:38–20:35]

• An excursion into the price and logic of bottled water versus beer at concerts, led by Gordon being charged $6 for a can of water—more expensive than beer.
• Water culture: Tap water vs. filters, habits, and maintenance failures (old filters becoming more of a problem than drinking tap).
• Appliance reliability:
  • Fridge and ice-maker failures versus rock-solid vintage appliances.
  • Nostalgic homage to “Norge fridges from the 30s” and “washer and dryers that lasted 40 years.”
  • Consensus: New tech = more convenience, but less durability.
• Cars as tech objects:
  • Over-complication of new cars, “rolling computers,” and privacy concerns.
  • Observation that Gen Z is trending toward used/“classic” cars from the 90s and 00s for durability and lower embedded tech.
  • Gordon: “There’s people that are still running old Norge fridges from like the 30s.” [15:08]

3. Listener Letters: Road Trip Memories

[21:40–34:49]

• In response to a previous episode about the Great American Road Trip, two listener letters prompt nostalgia and new parental insights:
  • Melody: Shares fond memories of rear-facing seats, night driving, and the legendary road-trip “cop stops.”
    • Craig: “I would even think with a woman sometimes they would maybe tell her to stop or wonder what van…” [24:43]
  • Catherine: Describes ongoing family road trips, the “license plate game,” and introducing kids to new music—plus the evolving challenge of keeping teenagers engaged.
    • George (on teens): “You talk about someone who can just absolutely kill the mood of a road trip…” [27:17]
• Debate: Can road trips be done without any audio entertainment? Gordon admits he sometimes prefers silence; George can’t abide quiet for long.
• Craig shares his endurance: 10-hour straight drives, but admits “hours 8, 9, 10, you want to kill yourself.” [35:13]

4. Cars: Police, Tickets, and Speeding Stories

[29:09–33:38]

• Gordon: Breaks his “no-ticket” streak but avoids a citation by bonding with the officer over manual transmissions.
  • Gordon: “I was accelerating to get ahead of a group of cars that were—I felt they were driving erratically.” [30:12]
• Discussion on Texas’s driving record system, “points,” and the loopholes of defensive driving courses.
  • General confusion and amusement about what really shows up on a driving record.
  • Craig (on points): “Does not remove points from your record in Texas, at least.” [33:27]

5. Data Deep-Dive: Falling in Love and Heartbreak

[37:29–56:25]

• Gordon brings “the data” from an Indiana University study: How many times do people fall in love in their life?
  • Survey says: Just above two passionate loves on average—surprising the group.
  • Musers recount their own numbers, agree it’s tricky because youthful love is different from the sustained, mature “pyramid” of a long-term relationship.
  • George (on young love): “She broke up with me the first time, I thought my life was pretty much over.” [41:25]
• Heartbreaks: Most say a couple times; George remembers one devastating heartbreak at age 16.
• The “magic” and perils of infatuation versus deep partnership:
  • Gordon: “A lot of people get caught in that trap of constantly seeking that out and jumping from relationship to relationship because they’re really in love with infatuation.” [43:41]
• Resilient myths:
  • Why do we still believe in “the one”?
  • The paradox of men remarrying more quickly than women after loss or divorce.
  • The dubious romance of being “haunted” by the one that got away.
  • Gordon: “It’s so unfair to compare that brief blossoming flower of romance to something that was a sturdy pyramid of love.” [49:49]

6. Relationship Rules & Social Norms

[54:03–55:47]

• The “rules” about dating a friend’s ex:
  • Unwritten code exists, but is there “wiggle room” depending on duration/friendship?
  • George: “If a friend of yours dated for a month... there’s parameters. Well, what is it then? A year?” [53:43]
• Old social patterns: Remarrying within the small circles after the death of a spouse—sometimes even being “set up” by the deceased spouse themselves. The group reflects on how both normal and slightly unnerving this tradition feels.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hantavirus:
  • Gordon: “I was real worried about this because I had Gene Hackman’s widow in mind because she died last year of it.” [02:50]
  • George (mocking Gordon): "If I accidentally got a little semen on George’s hand or his lapel—" [07:45]
  • Gordon (deadpan): “That’s the name of my first album..." [07:56]
• On Water at a Concert:
  • Gordon: “This guy turns around and opens up this 28 ounce can of something... it’s six bucks for a can of water. I just wanted just regular tap water.” [11:38]
• On Appliances:
  • Gordon: “If you have a fridge from the 70s or 80s, if you don’t throw it away for decorative reasons, it’s probably still running today.” [15:04]
• On Love & Heartbreak:
  • Gordon: “There’s no greater feeling than that kind of love. The problem is, a lot of people get caught in that trap of constantly seeking that out and jumping from relationship to relationship because they’re really in love with infatuation.” [43:41]
  • George: “She broke up with me the first time. I thought my life was pretty much over.” [41:25]
• On Relationship Myths:
  • Gordon: “The whole reason that that early, mind blowing, passionate love... happens in the first place is because it’s not very durable. It feels like fireworks because it goes off the rails.” [49:56]
• Musers Group Wisdom:
  • On road trips: “I think my personal limit is after six hours. I’m about done.” [34:36]
  • On dating a friend’s ex: “Once your buddy has a serious relationship with that person, even if they break up, that’s off the table.” [53:01]
  • On heartbreak: “It’s all part of the process.” [42:39]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02–06:10: Hantavirus Scare, Gene Hackman Rumor, Cleaning “Rodent Activity”
• 11:38–20:35: Water Pricing at Concerts, Tap vs. Filtered Water, Failing Appliances, Durable Old Tech
• 21:40–34:49: Listener Letters, Road Trip Memories, Teenagers & Family Dynamics, Driving Endurance
• 29:09–33:38: Police Encounters, Speeding, Defensive Driving, Record “Points” in Texas
• 37:29–56:25: Love and Heartbreak: Data and Deep Talk, Relationship Trajectories, Cultural Attitudes
• 54:03–55:47: Relationship Etiquette: Dating a Friend’s Ex and Remarrying in Old Age

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Closing Thoughts

The Musers The Podcast episode “Heartbreak & Hantavirus” lives up to the show’s reputation for blending razor-sharp wit with true vulnerability. From “hanted up” health scares to philosophical musings on love lost (and re-found), the episode is a tapestry of laugh-out-loud banter and earnest contemplation. As always, George, Craig, and Gordon’s on-air chemistry makes even the most mundane tales—like filter replacement and speeding tickets—unexpectedly captivating.

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For longtime fans and new listeners alike, this episode serves as a time capsule of American middle-aged life, a meditation on love, loss, and why the ice maker never, ever really works.

Transcript

[Craig]

Yeah, I was protecting myself just in case I touched Mouse Doo doo and then touched my face.

[George]

You just.

[Gordon]

You don't sound mature that way.

[Craig]

Or maybe mouse TT and then touch my face.

[Gordon]

All right, it's episode 52 of the Muser Is the Podcast. I'm Gordon, joined by my friend George. Say hi, George.

[George]

Oh, hi, everybody.

[Gordon]

I'm George, joined by our other friend. Because we only have two friends. Each of us only has two friends.

[George]

That's it.

[Gordon]

That's the other two guys. Our other friend, Craig.

[Craig]

Hi, I'm Craig.

[Gordon]

And I'm Buffett. And Muffin joins us. Muffin is a. Is a little puppet. That's a raccoon gopher.

[George]

A.

[Muffin]

Sure.

[Gordon]

What are you Muffin?

[Craig]

You don't know what you are?

[George]

No.

[Gordon]

No one ever told you?

[George]

No. They said, put on this costume.

[Gordon]

Did they ever DNA test you? And, like, you tested 23 and me. You're like, 50% puppet, 50% raccoon.

[George]

Nope. I couldn't tell you.

[Gordon]

Okay, well.

[George]

But I'll quit wasting your time.

[Gordon]

No, no, I. You're. You're welcome to join us for the whole episode.

[George]

Cheese beating.

[Gordon]

Join us for the whole episode. All right, before we get into today's very, very important topic, we do have to do a little letter of the week from the listeners who can email us at the muserspod gmail.com.

[George]

by the way, are you okay?

[Gordon]

No, I'm playing hurt because I think I may be hanted up. Yeah. You know, I wouldn't have thought about. When was hantavirus. When was that big scare? Like in the 90s?

[Craig]

Last year?

[Gordon]

No, no, I meant like when we first became aware of hantavirus.

[Craig]

I don't remember the first big scare.

[George]

That was last year for me. I didn't hear about it till you

[Gordon]

had a hantavirus scare last year.

[George]

No, but isn't that what got Gene Hackman's wife's wife?

[Craig]

Yeah, that's when it first really made the rounds for me. I don't remember one. In the 90s.

[Gordon]

Well, yes, I mean, everyone. I thought a whole new generation became aware of it when hantavirus thinned out the Hackman household. But when we were starting this job in radio, I remember hantavirus was making a. I don't remember that. Huge debut. And people were warning about hantaviruses really spreading. Hantavirus is something you get from rat feces and mouse droppings. And recently, I was cleaning out an area that had some rodent activity. That's the euphemism we use for a Rodent bombing zone. We say we did see some rodent activity.

[George]

And the way to clean it is just get a shop vac and vacuum it up now.

[Gordon]

Well, well, this is the thing. I was real worried about this because I did this. And I knew there was a scare of it because I had Gene Hackman's widow in mind because she died last year of it. And so as I'm cleaning this, I'm, like, concerned, but I'm also really tired. So I'm like, I don't want to go to the store and buy a K95 mask or whatever, so I'll just pull the T shirt up over my mouth.

[George]

That's the worst mask.

[Gordon]

And I used a vacuum cleaner to vacuum this stuff up. And it was a vacuum cleaner that has a HEPA filter, a series of HEPA filters on it. So it's not supposed to, you know, it's supposed to filter everything out as it exhausts back into the air.

[George]

But this is like a nice vacuum cleaner that you use on your. On your home.

[Gordon]

It is, George.

[George]

So it truly is. You shouldn't reuse that, should you, in your home?

[Gordon]

Well, I'll put another bag in it.

[George]

Okay.

[Craig]

Still pretty handed up.

[George]

I wouldn't use it.

[Gordon]

So I'm getting all worried about it because I started feeling sick the past couple of days. You know, you can hear my voice is a little scratchy. I'm really tired, but I can't really distinguish whether I'm tired because I'm haunted or because I've been working in such heat for long hours and not drinking enough water.

[George]

Yes, that will do it.

[Gordon]

So I was all worried about it this morning. I mentioned it to our other friend Craig, you know, and you told the story that you had recently done the same thing and you were even more risky than I was with it.

[Craig]

Yes. I got a shop vac and vacuumed out an exterior closet and a porch area. A lot of rat droppings or mouse droppings. And I did wear gloves, but I did not wear a mask.

[Gordon]

You didn't wear the T shirt? The bandit, the mask. The cheap bank robbery.

[George]

Yeah, gloves is good.

[Craig]

And afterwards, I regretted because I knew that I was stirring all of that up and it was going into the air and I was probably breathing in. I'm fine. Nothing happened to me. I didn't have symptoms.

[Gordon]

How long did you say it was?

[Craig]

Probably five, six weeks ago.

[Gordon]

Yeah, they say that's when hantavirus shows up. Six weeks later.

[Craig]

They do say it can show up anywhere. One to eight weeks. So I Shouldn't be tempting fate by

[George]

saying, I'm fine, so I'm too early for it.

[Gordon]

So see, I'm fine.

[George]

That's so weird that this has come up, because this week I was about to do the same thing. We've got an outdoor area that has. And there's a lot of activity. Yes, a lot of activity out there. And I was going to do the same thing, but now I'm paranoid to do it.

[Craig]

So.

[Gordon]

See, he did it with a shop vac. And I guarantee you didn't have a filter on that.

[Craig]

It's got some kind of filter inside,

[George]

but yeah, it's got.

[Gordon]

It's a little foam filter. It's not happening. You got to get hepa. And you should be wearing something on your. Your face too. Now that is exactly what Gene Hackman's wife was doing. Right. She was cleaning out an area that was in an area not too far from where you were. Yes, I'm assuming so. I mean, the. The rodents there are haunted up.

[Craig]

I know it's the deer mouse that carries the hantavirus, so it's one that you love. No, D E E R. Not D

[Gordon]

E A R Muffin.

[George]

Like that one.

[Gordon]

Yeah, I was playing to the muffin crowd there.

[Craig]

So here are the advanced symptoms that can show up if you've got a really bad case. They show up four to ten days after exposure. Tell me if you have any of this coughing.

[Gordon]

I'm starting to develop a cough.

[Craig]

Yeah, Tight chest.

[Gordon]

It's always tight, but I think it's fine because it's just this radiating pain down my left arm.

[Craig]

Shortness of breath. Okay, then. I think I've just diagnosed you as

[Gordon]

having it with full blown hands.

[Craig]

You're positive for full blown hanta? You should seek emergency medical help.

[Gordon]

I gotta do a podcast first, so. Now, hanta is not something that you can transmit sexually, right?

[Craig]

Yeah. Like, are we in danger if you kiss us during this podcast?

[George]

I started to step away from him last night. He goes, I can't. This is not contagious. I said, well, how do you know?

[Gordon]

Because I think you can only get it from rat fecus. Yeah, faeces. I think you can only get it from that. From what I understand. So as long as. I mean, we could kiss each other. And as long as one of us doesn't have a mouthful of rat droppings.

[George]

You're starting to look like a rat too.

[Gordon]

What? You're starting to. No, it doesn't transform me. No, that's not the way it works.

[Craig]

According to AI in almost all cases, hantavirus cannot be spread from person to person.

[Muffin]

Why?

[Hayley Carania]

Almost.

[Gordon]

That doesn't allay all fears. Yeah. I think that it's not in bodily fluids.

[George]

Okay.

[Gordon]

So, like, if.

[George]

I hope you don't have it.

[Gordon]

If I accidentally got a little semen on George's hand or his lapel.

[George]

Yeah, that's gross.

[Gordon]

But I think is the name of

[George]

my first album, and I don't think you have it. I think working in the heat for three straight days and you're not drinking enough water. That's probably what it is.

[Gordon]

Yeah. And I'm having air conditioning problems, so it's like, okay, so hot.

[Craig]

So there is one type of hantavirus called the Andes virus. And es like the mountains.

[Gordon]

That's the mountains where people eat each other all the time.

[Craig]

Yes. That has been known to spread person to person. And it has been known it spreads through close contact or bodily fluids.

[Gordon]

Oh, no.

[Jim Rome]

Sure.

[George]

We're doing a podcast in confined quarters.

[Gordon]

Yes. And I have bodily fluids just flying out everywhere.

[Hayley Carania]

Now.

[Craig]

This does. This site doesn't specifically mention a podcast,

[Gordon]

but see, that's the thing. I don't think you can get it on a podcast.

[George]

Probably not.

[Gordon]

So, yeah, I'm a little bit worried about it, but I'm actually less worried about it now. And this makes sense.

[George]

After talking to two medical experts, you feel better about it.

[Gordon]

No, this is the thing that doesn't make any sense about it is after Craig shared his story of being less protected than I was, that made me feel safer because he's closer to death

[Craig]

than I am, and I'm doing fine.

[Gordon]

And he's doing fine.

[George]

He wore gloves.

[Gordon]

You don't get it from glut. You get it from inhaling. The gloves have nothing to do with it.

[Craig]

Yeah, I was protecting myself just in case I touched mouse doo doo and then touched my face.

[George]

You just.

[Gordon]

You don't sound mature that way.

[Craig]

Or maybe mouse tt and then touch my face.

[Gordon]

So, yes, I. I don't know if I'm. If I'm handed up. This may be the last podcast is the take away from that.

[Craig]

Well, our thoughts. Prayers are with you.

[Gordon]

And I almost didn't go out last night. The three of us all went out last night to a concert together. Had a great time. We were dancing with each other. Fun got wasted. Riding on each other's shoulders, shirtless, singing our favorite hits. And so Giorgio, I met him, like, right up front in the lobby of this place and told. I told you, you know, hey, I'm feeling a little deer moused and he was like, he stepped away from me and I said, no, no, you can, you can show love toward, towards me. Remember what Princess Diana did? Remember how memorable that was when she did that?

[George]

Yes.

[Gordon]

Yeah. In the 80s. So you. I tried to convince you to hug me. You were no Princess Diana.

[George]

No, I was not.

[Gordon]

You were not going to Andy's thing. You had no idea. You just found out that was a mountain range just now, but yeah. And then you remember what happened right after that? We go up to the. George, of course, is trying to get me to drink because. Because you, you never like to be alone when you're drinking.

[George]

Yeah. Makes me feel better.

[Gordon]

So we go up to the bar and I tell the, the waiter there, bartender say, can I, you know, I just need a water. It's like blazing hot here in Texas where we record this and so a water and then it's a night out. So you're thinking maybe designated driver. You know, usually bartenders are so good with you when you just want water. They look at you like you're responsible. So this guy turns around and opens up this 28 ounce can of something, puts it in front of me and then spins the little screen around and it's six bucks for a can of water. I just wanted just regular tap water.

[George]

Yeah, this is a super hydrator.

[Gordon]

And. And I'm like, I just want a regular water. And these cans already open. So it's like, okay. Inventory will be off if you don't pay for it. So it's been six bucks right out of the gate for water. Then George orders a beer and it's only like four bucks. That's, that's the country we live in. Cost more for water.

[Craig]

How do we get to a point where we are paying for water?

[Gordon]

I don't know.

[Craig]

Water fountains everywhere.

[Gordon]

Think of how many people passed on that idea when someone started pitching we're going to bottle bottled water.

[George]

That's not going to work.

[Gordon]

Everyone in the 70s, like, what do you mean? Like from the, from the tap. I don't, I don't get it.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

And you look on these bottled waters and they oftentimes will say, which water supply? Yeah, Houston Municipal Water Supply. Why did I pay for this?

[Craig]

Right.

[Gordon]

But if you do own a water company, you want us to sponsor you?

[George]

We sure as well. Yes, it works. No doubt.

[Gordon]

No problem there. But.

[Hayley Carania]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

How often do you drink tap water versus per day?

[Craig]

All the time.

[George]

Really? Yeah.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Gordon]

See, I'm a tap water guy too. And people look at me like I'm crazy.

[Craig]

I Drink it every day. But we do have a reverse osmosis filter at our sink.

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So I use that.

[Gordon]

But I have noticed a lot of people that have the filters, they never change the things. And they say that that oftentimes is worse than just drinking straight tap water.

[Craig]

I could see that.

[Gordon]

If you're just collecting the contaminants for years of water usage.

[George]

It's a big change. That filter in their fridge, too.

[Gordon]

Yeah, I've given up on that.

[George]

You still have a blinking.

[Gordon]

I'm starting to campaign that it's Americans for the in favor of ripping out ice makers and water dispensers and refrigerators. That's the thing that always goes wrong with those deals.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

Well, now we got these motherboards that are controlling if you're going out, too. But I'm telling you, I have had probably four refrigerators. The ice maker goes out within the first year of the refrigerator, and that refrigerator will limp along for, I don't know, eight, nine years before you replace it.

[George]

And who do you call to fix a fridge?

[Gordon]

Fridge repairman.

[George]

When's the last time you did that?

[Gordon]

I did that once and repaired the ice maker once, and then that was it. I'm not doing it again.

[Craig]

I've done it twice in probably eight years.

[George]

Okay.

[Craig]

We had a new fridge we put in a year ago, and it went on the blink six months in. Had the guy come out and repair it. And before that, my old fridge. I had the guy come out two different guys. But I've. Why do you think that's a rare thing?

[George]

I don't know. I've just never had someone come out to repair. I just ride out the water filter or the ice maker. That doesn't work. Thinking.

[Gordon]

Yeah, but sometimes the fridge actually stops working.

[Craig]

Yeah. That's what ours goes. Yeah.

[George]

Yeah. I've just not. And I've tried. Okay, let me try to do this filter switch out one more time. And it's like it's out of Star Wars. It just kind of magically goes in there and it kind of sucks it up into the.

[Gordon]

What? What kind of weird freak.

[George]

You haven't experienced that?

[Gordon]

No.

[George]

You put the filter up there and just kind of goes.

[Gordon]

And it accepts it.

[George]

Yes.

[Gordon]

It's like a pneumatic bank tube or something.

[George]

Somehow I don't do it right.

[Gordon]

Huh?

[George]

The ice maker doesn't work.

[Gordon]

I was reading a whole article about this. I don't know why this is not interesting to you guys, but about how appliances are so less reliable than they used to be.

[George]

I believe it really like if you

[Gordon]

have a fridge from the 70s and 80s, if you don't throw it away for decorative reasons, it's probably still running today because they just, they don't have a lot of complication now. They're not as energy efficient, but they will last you for an eternity. I mean there's people that are still running old Norge fridges from like the 30s or something like that.

[George]

Hey, my parents had refrigerators and washer and dryers that lasted 40 years.

[Gordon]

Yeah, yeah, I know. And I'm kicking myself. I got rid of my parents old washer and dryer. It was the old top loader washer that you know, is not very efficient at all.

[George]

It takes much to get it out

[Gordon]

of balance, but it'll last for forever.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

And repair guys love those old machines that are easy. That's what they'll use. They'll say I'll keep that forever because it will last you 30 or 40 years.

[George]

Wow.

[Gordon]

But the newer stuff doesn't last very long. It's kind of like cars now. Cars have gotten the same way. People are having all kinds of problems with new cars.

[Craig]

Really?

[Gordon]

Yeah.

[George]

It's basically a rolling computer.

[Gordon]

It's a rolling computer and as you've heard on this very podcast, which our back catalog is available. Listen to it anytime your new cars are spying on you. The data collection.

[George]

I have no idea till you tell the story.

[Gordon]

And a lot of younger people. There was a girl recently, the War on Beauty girl has a YouTube channel. She did a whole essay on this. And a lot of young people are now really revolting against the newer cars and things that can't be fixed. And then they're also spy machines. So they're wanting a classic car which to them is a car that was made in the late 90s, early aughts.

[Craig]

Right.

[Gordon]

That's the sweet spot for getting yourself a dependable car. And young people are moving towards that trend too. There was a. I think it was a survey done by Hagerty that showed what Dan Hagerty? Who's Dan Haggerty? I'm. I'm of today's world, so I don't really know.

[George]

Oh really? The guy who talks about the Brady Bunch all the time has no idea.

[Gordon]

Dan Hagerty is at the Brady Bunch all the time. So. So they did this survey. Hold on, Muffin. They did a survey and found that. I think it was gen zers. I always get the generations confused. It was young people that had like a 60 desire. 60 of them had a desire to own a classic car versus only like 30 of boomers actually desired to own a class.

[Craig]

I believe that.

[Gordon]

And you always associate classic cars with boomers and being all into it. But now the newer classic cars, it's the young people.

[Craig]

So go back a little bit. Do today's cars not last as long? Or do people just want to change them out or trade them for a classic car? Or is it hard to drive today's new cars and their technology 100,000 miles?

[Gordon]

Well, it's a few things. One of them is, of course, price. They've gotten way, way expensive, I think outpacing inflation. They've gotten overly complicated. So there's so many more opportunities for things to go wrong on them. So they'll go back into a shop for some little annoying little thing that you have to constantly bring it back in for. So then that bothers people because they're not dependable that way. And they have gotten so complicated that no one can actually do like regular service on them. Another thing that's really hurt cars, and I don't know exactly why manufacturers have done this, but it's the 10,000 mile oil change. There was a big war. I think Mercedes actually started this kicking off to where. No, this is great. You don't have to do much maintenance. Matter of fact, automatic transmissions, you never have to. It's lifetime fluid. 10,000 mile oral oil intervals. I know I'm pronouncing it weird. I say oil, it's supposed to be oil.

[George]

Said oral.

[Gordon]

No, and it's really sludging up the engines on these cars. And so now the cars are not lasting very long. And I don't know why manufacturers are doing this. It can't be a play to just get you to buy a new car. We want to make our car less reliable. And so you'll buy another less reliable car from us.

[George]

Why not?

[Gordon]

I don't get it.

[Craig]

See, from my perspective, cars today are way better and way better built because I never see cars broken down on the side of the road.

[George]

They don't break down as much as

[Craig]

they used to 30 years ago. 30 years ago, on the highway, every 20 miles, you're passing someone who's on the side of the road waving for help. And it seems like today they're so incredibly reliable.

[Gordon]

Well, I think that was because people 30 years ago were driving cars from the 70s and the 80s. Those are the ones that were broken down the side of the road. But if you were had a car that was in the mid-90s, let's say those were pretty darn dependable. But yeah, you're right. We used to see broken down cars all when we were kids.

[George]

It was like was not unusual.

[Gordon]

Not unusual. And it would even be stuff like I remember in parking lots at shopping centers. I remember the first time I noticed my dad went over and opened up somebody else's car that was parked in a shopping center parking lot and turned off their lights for them. Because back then, yeah, if your lights were on, they were just on until the battery ran out. There's no auto shut off function happening. But yeah, people would break down for those kind of reasons. And yeah, overheating was a big issue back then. Cars definitely did get better but then at some point they got too complicated for their own good. So yeah, move back to younger cars and get yourself an old refrigerator, George.

[George]

Right.

[Gordon]

And when you're cleaning out the spot where your new refrigerator that broke down was, get all that hantavirus rodent droppings back behind it. Just make sure to wear a mask, a HEPA filter.

[Muffin]

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses, setup required compatibility and availability. Various 18 stream the biggest moments in

[Gordon]

sports live on Fox 1. The biggest names, the biggest games, the biggest matchups. Watch live or catch up on your schedule at home or on the go. Never miss a moment. All on Fox one Stream now. You like that, Muffin?

[George]

Oh yeah, that's good advice right now.

[Gordon]

All right, Letter of the week Muffin. Give us the Sounder Last podcast we talked about the Great American Road Trip. That was a fantastic podcast. I really love that one. It's good storytelling and it was great hearing from the P1s about their adventures in the American Road Trip. And our first letter here comes from Melody. She says, great podcast in the American Road Trip. It brought back so many great memories for me. I also loved your letter of the week as I do feel like I know each of you personally and I care about each of you and speak of you to others as if we are friends. Isn't that nice?

[Craig]

Yeah, really nice.

[Gordon]

She says that when she was a girl she was growing up and she always wanted to sit in their station wagon's rear facing seat on their family road trips and her mother, who would drive on these road trips, would kind of defeat her because they always were night drivers, so we never were that way. But there are some families that they always started their road trip at night.

[George]

We did some of that.

[Gordon]

And it does make a lot of sense.

[George]

Yeah. Less traffic.

[Gordon]

Less traffic. It's cooler.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

At night. And the kids will probably sleep. So you don't have to be managing a bunch of civil wars breaking out in the backseat.

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

But more dangerous because you have more drunks on the road. It's harder to see you have a

[George]

chance of falling asleep.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[George]

Increasing that, I would think. But, yeah, my parents used to do that.

[Gordon]

Talking about cars getting better, the old headlights that would barely illuminate in front of you. The worst. And of course, now we've gone the opposite direction where everyone looks like they

[George]

have their brights on when they don't.

[Gordon]

Yeah. It's like Hiroshima coming at you. It's very sensitive.

[Craig]

Please. I'm part Japanese.

[Gordon]

Okay. That's stolen valor. That's stolen valor. Anyway, Melody continues, she says, I loved.

[Craig]

Right.

[Gordon]

Driving at night with lesser traffic, cooler temperatures. And I have a few stories about getting stopped by police. This is when she had her own family. She would also drive at night. She said, one time when I was pulled over for speeding, the policeman shined his light into my van to check out my story and see what was happening and let me go without a ticket. The next time I got pulled over at night, I immediately jumped out of. This is risky. Jumped out of my car and ran back to the police car because I didn't want him waking up my kids.

[George]

Oh, no.

[Gordon]

By walking up and shining the light in there.

[George]

Wonder what you're up to doing something like that.

[Gordon]

Yeah. I think this is a privilege story right here. Because if a. If a cop sees some big old bulky guy with tattoos running at him full pace in the middle of the

[Craig]

night, yeah, he's opening fire.

[Gordon]

Yeah, he's opening fire. But if it's some woman in a minivan, you know, he's going to be much more kind and wondering if it's some dude. You're going to be wondering, what's he hiding in the van up there.

[Craig]

Yeah. God, that's risky.

[George]

I would even think with a woman sometimes they would maybe tell her to stop or wonder what van.

[Gordon]

Anyway, she says didn't want to wake at my kids. He allowed me to sit in his car while he checked on my information. And when I got back to my car, my husband woke up and asked me about it. And she said that she'd gotten out of a ticket. Like the guy didn't give her a ticket. So she says her husband starts giving her the side eye, wondering what went on back there.

[George]

Yeah, why were you in the police car?

[Gordon]

You're in there for about 15 minutes and you come back out and say that you're not getting a ticket. What's going on there? She says, I'm still not sure he believed me that nothing happened. She continues, she says, the biggest surprise for me is that you guys don't want to listen. Oh, is that you don't want to listen to anything when you drive now, correction here. That was mainly me. Yeah, I have to takes the long road trip without having anything on any radio, any podcasts going, anything. George has to have it. Craig, you're a mixture.

[Craig]

Yeah, I'd say 80% I'm listening to something, 20% with my thoughts.

[Gordon]

Anyway, Melody continues, thank you for rehashing all those wonderful memories for me and allowing me this forum to share some of them with you. Your friend and fan, Melody. That's very sweet. Catherine also emailed us and said, my husband and I take our two kids on road trips every other summer. Started when they were 3 and 6. They're now 10 and 13. And our road trips are my most treasured memories as a family. We've driven thousands of miles, exploring a lot of countries, staying in small towns, meeting interesting people, and of course, seeing a lot of world's biggest blank signs. And the American Southwest is our favorite. Stops at Carlsbad Caverns, Grand Canyons, Zion National Park, Park City, Boulder, Arches National Park, Durango, Santa Fe. She loves the south and Southwest. They still play the license plate game. She says they play I Spy and they introduce their kids to music on road trips. So it'll be music the kids don't know. And so they educate their kids on that. We laugh a lot, argue every now and then. And there is more eye rolling these days with a teenager.

[George]

I was going to say she's entering the years where it gets pretty rough. And man, you talk about someone who can just absolutely kill the mood of a road trip.

[Craig]

It's gonna be so much fun.

[George]

We're gonna go, huh? Sounds fun.

[Gordon]

What are we gonna do there? Where are we going?

[George]

Oh gosh, we're going to the Grand Canyon. It's gonna be great.

[Hayley Carania]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

What is it?

[George]

Well, it's just this marvelous natural canyon that's just huge.

[Gordon]

Why'd I need to see that?

[George]

Breathtaking.

[Gordon]

Why don't I need to see it?

[George]

Okay, never mind.

[Gordon]

Even fake teenager has ruined my mood sitting in this room just then.

[Jim Rome]

Gosh.

[George]

Why are they like. I mean, I guess I was too. I probably eye rolled. I didn't talk back.

[Gordon]

Do you ever think. Have you ever been sitting in the front seat and you're two of your three boys get to arguing about something, Giorgio.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

And you're like, why do y' all have to argue about this? This is the stupidest. There's zero consequence to the outcome of this argument. Why do you argue?

[George]

Oh, yeah, they would argue over everything, especially when they were teenagers and even preteens. I've told you guys before, we've been doing morning drive. So I wasn't there for some of these breakfasts, but they couldn't even agree on what the table would look like at breakfast. And they would have to separate the view of each other with cereal boxes just so they wouldn't see each other so much. They fought over everything. It started early in the morning.

[Gordon]

At some point. Aren't you like, look, we're in the same family. We're supposed. We're the same football team and everyone else is the opponent. This. We support each other in this family.

[George]

They did most of the time, but, yeah, there were times where they just couldn't even talk to each other.

[Gordon]

Anyway, Catherine continues. Thanks for cranking out these great episodes and for sharing your lives with us. Keep the stories coming, Catherine. And it's interesting we talked about the road trip recently because, you know, I informed you guys I did get pulled over. I broke my streak of not getting pulled over.

[George]

This is not a shocking announcement.

[Gordon]

I think I'd gone. I've gone a couple years without getting pulled over.

[Craig]

It's not that long. Although considering how you drive, I guess it is good for me.

[George]

That's the shocking part.

[Gordon]

It's good for me. But since we've had the World cup in Dallas, Fort Worth, I think that they increased the police presence because of that. And so they started prowling the streets. And all of a sudden, breaking the law is against the law again.

[George]

Did you get pulled over more than once?

[Gordon]

No, just the one time. The one time I was let off without getting a ticket.

[George]

Okay.

[Gordon]

And the officer and I talked cars for about five minutes on the side of the road because notice I was driving a stick shift. And so he told me about his car, that he's also a save the manuals fan. He's wanting to save the manual transmission.

[George]

How fast were you going? What was the speed limit?

[Gordon]

Very tasteful. It's a Little misleading because I was accelerating to get ahead of a group of cars that were. I felt they were driving erratically.

[George]

Okay. But give us the stats.

[Gordon]

It was, I think, 70 and a 40.

[Craig]

Wow. Okay.

[George]

You got out without a ticket, but I thought that was instant jail.

[Gordon]

Allows me. Allow me to say, as I put the whole system on trial here, that this road, even though the speed limit is 40, like no one ever goes 40 on that. It's like a 55 at least. Yeah, at least a 55. Maybe even a 60 mile an hour zone for most people.

[Craig]

Did you catch the officer? A, in a good mood?

[Gordon]

No, he's in a bad mood and walked up.

[Craig]

Okay. B, was he a fan of the radio show or podcast?

[Gordon]

I'm thinking that's a possibility.

[Craig]

So that may be why he left.

[Gordon]

Somehow after he took my license and went away, he came back and he was nicer.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Gordon]

So that's the only thing I think of.

[Craig]

Did he say why he was giving you just a warning for such an egregious violation?

[Gordon]

No, he just said, please slow down.

[George]

Huh.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Gordon]

Yeah. And I saluted him.

[George]

So on your record, I haven't thought about this, like, I have no idea.

[Gordon]

And asked him if he knew Melody, see if he had ever gotten let her out of a ticket.

[George]

I have no idea what's on my driving record. I'm assuming it's clean. Just because if I've received a ticket and I haven't in a long time, I did something to deferred adjudication to get that off of my record.

[Gordon]

Yeah. Which is always weird.

[George]

Yeah, Great loophole.

[Gordon]

I love that.

[George]

But like, when he went to go look, he didn't see any sort of traffic violations for you.

[Craig]

I'm guessing he had to see a lot of priors.

[Gordon]

Do those all show up?

[George]

I thought you had the one deferred

[Gordon]

state that you were deferred modification meant that they erase it from your record. I don't know, like God himself is not even allowed to remember it.

[Craig]

What if you take driver's ed, does that also erase it completely from the record? Yeah. Defensive driving?

[Gordon]

Yeah, I thought it did.

[Craig]

Maybe.

[George]

And after five years, do you reset or is it one from 1999? Could still be on there.

[Gordon]

I don't know. You know, I read lots of automotive forums and people talk about having points on their license. Do y'.

[Hayley Carania]

All.

[Gordon]

I know what that is. No, I didn't know that. I don't know if we have that in Texas where there's some point system where you get docked a few points. Over this speeding for this. This infraction, whatever.

[George]

And what about warnings? Does that factor into it?

[Gordon]

I don't know.

[Craig]

Okay, according to AI, Taking a defensive driving course does dismiss the traffic ticket, but it does not erase it from your record. So you do get points added up, so you must have a ton of points.

[Gordon]

Yeah. Can I redeem them for merchandise?

[Craig]

I don't think so.

[Gordon]

Maybe a sky mall catalog.

[Craig]

Jail merchandise.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

But hey, I'm just as free of tickets as you guys are, so what do you think?

[George]

We need to do that? We need to have a friend of ours who's in law look up our records and see what it looks like.

[Gordon]

I think it's illegal for them to do that, sir.

[George]

Is it?

[Gordon]

Yeah. My history is not allowed to be known without my permission.

[George]

Okay, well, I work with you. You can get permission to.

[Gordon]

That's what I told the officer. He didn't have my permission to give me a ticket.

[Craig]

Yeah, it says here, defensive driving does not remove points from your record in Texas, at least.

[George]

Okay.

[Gordon]

No, I didn't even know we had a point system.

[George]

I didn't.

[Gordon]

Either way, behind the game here. Hey, There was another P1 who told us that he takes road trips a lot. He drives a lot. He says that he set a new personal record last fall. He went 10,461 miles in 13 days.

[Muffin]

Wow.

[Gordon]

How's that possible?

[George]

A lot of miles.

[Jim Rome]

Hmm.

[Craig]

What's that, 800 a day.

[Gordon]

He didn't indicate whether. There's not a few flights mixed into that, so I'm assuming this is just driving.

[George]

So he must have done like a circle of the third country.

[Gordon]

He did. 10,461 divided by 13.

[Craig]

Yeah. It's 800 a day.

[Gordon]

Yeah. That's a lot of miles a day.

[Craig]

That's a lot.

[Gordon]

Consecutive days too, so I think I

[Craig]

could maybe do that. I don't. That doesn't sound impossible, but it sounds exhausting. Yeah, two straight weeks of 800 miles every day. So you're in the car for 12 hours every day?

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Probably takes 12, maybe 13 hours every day.

[Gordon]

I think my. My personal limit is after six hours. I'm. I'm about done. Yeah, I think, you know, call it a day here.

[Craig]

Yeah, I just took a 10 hour road trip and first busted it up though, didn't you? No, no, I always do it straight. And the first.

[Gordon]

Always first hour.

[Craig]

First hour is great. Second hour, you start to feel a little fatigued. Third hour, you're ready to pull over and stretch your legs. Hours. 8, 9, 10. You want to kill yourself?

[George]

Whoa.

[Craig]

I mean, it's all you can do

[Gordon]

to get to finish line. You mean you want to stop and rest somewhere?

[Craig]

I mean, it can't come soon enough, the finish line. So it's. There is a. There is a tipping point there. And it's probably around hour six.

[Gordon]

I don't think that I've ever driven for ten hours straight.

[Craig]

Really? Yeah.

[Gordon]

I don't know that I have.

[Craig]

Wow. I've done it so many times.

[Gordon]

Course you have. Your Captain Midnight.

[George]

Yeah, which, by the way, my son and his wife gave me a Captain Midnight shirt for my birthday this summer.

[Craig]

Nice.

[Gordon]

So I'm official nickname from.

[George]

You know, it's a long story, but

[Gordon]

apparently that is a known nickname.

[George]

Known character, Captain Midnight. And it was like from the 40s or something. Yeah, he looks like a superhero.

[Gordon]

And he drives. He's just no driving long distance.

[George]

He's like an Avenger kind of dude.

[Craig]

Sure enough, there he is. Just do a Google search. Captain Midnight superhero.

[Gordon]

Yeah, he looks from the 40s there for sure. Jim Rome takes on sports.

[Jim Rome]

I will always have a complicated relationship with this game, but people evolve. Sodo sports. Do not make me regret this. Do not make me devolve back to that guy that so many clones wish that I still was. And do not embarrass the entire country. Now I can go back. I can get there fast. Lose tonight and you got a real problem. Do not blow it.

[Gordon]

The Jim Rome show podcast.

[Jim Rome]

You've been warned.

[Gordon]

Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

[Hayley Carania]

Scrolling with Hayley. I am Hayley Carania. I scroll with the homies here in the live chat because there's a lot to scroll through on X, on Instagram, on TikTok Tock, cutting through the clutter one hot take at a time. Love seeing you all in the chat before the show. I tried to jump in just a few minutes before to say hello. I love the chat interaction. Thank you for helping. But I do it to get all of the videos and all of the content that you won't find anywhere else. Scrolling with Hayley. Just search that up and I will be there. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

[Gordon]

Okay, are we ready to get into today's podcast?

[George]

Okay, go.

[Gordon]

So here's the topic. Love.

[George]

You really need love.

[Gordon]

How many times have you been in love?

[Craig]

Wow. Why don't you answer first?

[Gordon]

Well, I have the data here.

[Craig]

What about you?

[Gordon]

Personally, I'm the guy that brings the data.

[Craig]

But what about you, Gordon? How many times?

[Gordon]

Oh, yes, indeed.

[Craig]

See, George?

[Gordon]

Yes.

[Craig]

You got to flip it on him

[Gordon]

because he'll never answer, you know, the thing.

[Craig]

So if he's not going to answer, then I'm not.

[Gordon]

What do you think the average is for? And I'm, I think this was Americans that they did this study, was an Indiana University and they studied how many times are people in love throughout their lifetime.

[Craig]

I'm going to guess it's multiple. It's not going to be one.

[Gordon]

Okay.

[Craig]

I'm going to guess it's three or four.

[George]

Yeah, I would say three.

[Gordon]

Three. And would you say you're above average? Average. Below average?

[Craig]

What about you? What do you.

[Gordon]

What do you think? I don't know. But I would bet you. I bet you're above average.

[Craig]

What would you say you are?

[Gordon]

Oh, I think a cereal lover, like me. I love Lucky Charms. I love cereal too. Yeah, I would say 3, 3, 4.

[Craig]

Is your personal experience or your answer to this question?

[Gordon]

No, I know the answer to the question of the what's the average? That has been studied. But I think, yeah, three, four.

[George]

If you asked me this a long time ago, I would say, yeah, three or four. But now I would just say one.

[Gordon]

Of course, all of us now say one. All of us now say one. If we were other people is what I'm talking about. Right. What would we say? Yeah, well, the average is actually just above two.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Gordon]

So basically two, which does that surprise you?

[Craig]

No, I guess three or four. So I knew it would be around there.

[Gordon]

And their question here was passionately in love, like passion love, which is, to me, I think is a little bit misleading because what most people think of passionate love is that crazy early dopamine dump of being obsessed, obsessive love that happens right at the first start of

[Craig]

a new relationship, which is actually lust.

[Gordon]

Yeah, it's basically. Yeah. It's a mating strategy that biology does on us there. And people who can't handle. I've known some people like this, who, when it falls out of that stage, they think, oh, well, this must not be the one.

[Craig]

Right.

[Gordon]

This must not be true love. Because true love is always exactly like those early hormonally infused time periods where you're obsessed with the person and you just can't. You think everything they say is great and it's a mind meld and a body meld.

[George]

Yeah. And I do think there is a difference from the person that you. If you take it as far as marriage, I think that that to me was a different level. I'm not just saying this, but I think of my, my first girlfriend, who I was Very fond of. But it was. This is going to sound so cheesy, but I didn't really. I don't. Sounds like a song. I really didn't know what love was until I met my. My spouse. I would say, yeah, all the things

[Gordon]

that I kind of love. You redefine love though once you have the long term relationship.

[George]

Yes. And I remember thinking.

[Gordon]

But you remember how you were so obsessed with that high school girlfriend or junior high girlfriend. Whichever one I thought about.

[George]

She broke up with me the first time. I thought my life was pretty much over.

[Gordon]

That was the other question I have is how many times have you had heartbreak? And heartbreak sometimes can come in the form and I guess love can too. Within the same relationship. You can have your heart broken a couple times or three times.

[George]

I would say just one time and it was devastating.

[Gordon]

That was that first one.

[George]

Yeah. And I was 16 years old so I mean that was part of it too. As you're a teenage, you don't know what's going on and Yeah, I just. And you know, my parents were like, well, why are you so upset? You don't understand.

[Gordon]

Parents can't tell you anything.

[George]

Nothing they would say was going to make me feel any better.

[Gordon]

As a parent you have to be gentle in those situations.

[George]

Yes.

[Gordon]

I know that you're really upset about this and that.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

But you will get through this. You can't tell them that what they're going through is stupid. And you got zero perspective yet you

[Craig]

know, 100% down the road they will look back 20 or 30 years and say why was I upset over that?

[Gordon]

Right.

[Craig]

But you can't explain that to them.

[Gordon]

Yeah, right.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[George]

It's all part of the process.

[Gordon]

See, I think I've had my heart broken a couple times. I'd say three times. I think that's the same.

[George]

It's three different women.

[Gordon]

Yeah, well, I don't know about different women's.

[George]

Yeah, well, too restrictive here.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[George]

Now you're talking about if you're throwing in just heartbreak.

[Gordon]

Yeah.

[George]

Of you know, death or something like that.

[Craig]

Your favorite team losing.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

This is romantic. Still romantic stuff.

[George]

So.

[Gordon]

Yeah, it was, it was two point. I think it was 2.05. That's a weird number for heartbreaks. No, no. For how many people were in. Have experienced, you know, that life altering passionate love. There's no greater feeling than that. Than that kind of love. The problem is a lot of people get caught in that trap of constantly seeking that out and jumping from relationship to relationship because they're. They're really in love with infatuation.

[Craig]

Right.

[Gordon]

They're not in love with that other person. They're just in love with the next person. That gives them that infatuation feeling again.

[Craig]

The only feeling that comes close to that is when your team wins a championship.

[Gordon]

Everything goes back to sports with you guys.

[George]

He's right.

[Gordon]

Everything. And then. So I think the second biggest number in this was either three or zero

[Craig]

times in love.

[Gordon]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Which is the second and third most responses were those two numbers.

[Gordon]

It says the average number of passionate love experiences reported was 2.052 was also the modal answer. That's research speak that I was that mean a little glazed over on. Almost one in three people reported having experienced passionate love twice in their life.

[Craig]

So one in three.

[Gordon]

Close to 33%. Yes. Close to 33% of us. That was the. The biggest, I guess percentage. But that seems weird to me. But okay.

[Craig]

How many said zero? What percentage, by the way?

[Gordon]

That one in three is twice as many as those who had felt it either three times or never at all. So the second most is three times or not at all. That was tied for second place.

[Craig]

That's really sad that so many people responded zero. And is that a reflection, I don't know the age groups that were polled here, but is that a reflection of today's communication and society going online? And so people aren't experiencing real love because so many of their friendships and relationships are online.

[Gordon]

I think that it has to do with that. I think that we've become more atomized. We just don't have as many connections. We have more connections, but we have less deep connections.

[George]

I guess so. But I guess I thought of people that I've known in my life that I think their number would be zero. Including my grandmother's sister, who's a lovely woman. She was just so sweet to us. Never got married. And I never heard a story about her having one big heart. Maybe there was one, but you never

[Gordon]

heard the story of it.

[George]

I know we have a friend who I would say I don't think he's ever been in love. So it may have nothing. You're right. It may have everything to do with how we communicate now. But it may be just some people go through life and they don't have that. That one love.

[Craig]

We know a couple people. But for that to be one of

[George]

the top three responses, that is surprising. Maybe that does mean that's a big number. It's a new thing when it comes

[Gordon]

to four times people who felt it four times. One in nine.

[George]

Yeah, I would think. But at the same time, I've known, I've known people who have, I would say beat. They've probably been around that number because maybe they've gotten up to the point of marriage or maybe they have been married. And this to me brings up that conversation we've had before of a spouse will pass, say when they're in their 50s and indeed they'll be waiting for them, you know, on the other side.

[Gordon]

Yeah.

[George]

And then the guy remarries like six months later.

[Gordon]

And then.

[George]

So how does that work?

[Gordon]

They say that, that men remarry a lot quicker than women.

[George]

I think there's.

[Gordon]

And, and yeah, that's got to be true. Guys can't stand being alone.

[George]

Right.

[Gordon]

Which is kind of crazy, isn't it? Because the, the old stereotype is that women are the ones that crave that kind of connection and are relationship minded and men try to run away from relationships.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

As much as they can. But when it comes down to losing a spouse earlier, getting divorced, you know that men oftentimes will remarry. And there's a healthy percentage of women who say, nah, I'm kind of done with that. I like, I just want to be alone kind of. I have my friends, I have my social group and everything. But as far as getting married, again, not interested.

[George]

Yeah, that is interesting. It seems just anecdotal proof is the people that I know, it seems like the guy always, most of the time gets remarried, seems a rebound better than the woman.

[Gordon]

Yeah. So he can have another woman in this life and then he still has that first one waiting on the other side. She's still waiting for him up there. So, you know.

[Craig]

But then when all three of them pass, then that gets complicated things to sort out. Yeah.

[Gordon]

It's so very complicated.

[Craig]

Hey, good to see both of you here anyway.

[George]

Or maybe in the afterlife it's all cool, you know, it's all, hey, we all love each other. And you have, you've actually your numbers up around 19 or 20, that people love each other. It's okay to love more than just okay.

[Gordon]

Why do we have the thing though, in our literature, in our history, in our collective consciousness that is that, hey, there's one true person out there for you. That's such bs. We all know it.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah, but why do we keep

[Gordon]

paying lip service to this idea?

[George]

I don't know.

[Craig]

It's good for romantic novels and movies and things like that.

[George]

Well, does it make you feel uncomfortable too, when you hear about, you know, someone who passes Say it's a famous, a famous guy and you know, when he went to his grave, he was married, but his one true love was the one that got away 20 years before. Yeah, that's always kind of creeped me out.

[Gordon]

That is, that is creepy. And I also think that it's very unfair if. And I've seen this happen. Men, women, it's across the board. The person that they have, they carry a torch for a relationship, prior relationship that didn't work out. And then you have their current relationship which did work out and they stayed married. Perhaps it didn't have fireworks all the way to the end and all that. It's so unfair to compare that brief blossoming flower of romance to something that was a sturdy pyramid of love that lasted all that time, that had dedication, sustainability and dependability to it.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

I mean, the whole reason that that early, mind blowing, passionate love and infatuation happens in the first place is because it's not very durable. It feels like fireworks because goes off the rails. And you may fight passionately in the beginning and then you make up very passionately. And it's all this kind of. The problem is that the human brain desires those two things that it wants dependability, predictability, and it wants novelty and adventure at the same time. And those things are on the opposite sides of the continuum.

[George]

Yeah. For that person who's been there year after year and decade after decade, they should be racking up points in the other person's brain of. Well, you can't even approach this. This is amazing.

[Craig]

Like our traffic ticket system.

[George]

It's a point system.

[Gordon]

Right. What's the most crazy reason you ever heard of someone breaking up with another person?

[Craig]

Oh my God. Seems like I've heard a lot of them. I don't really know where to start.

[Gordon]

Yeah, it was one of you two that broke up with somebody because she didn't groom enough down there. What was that story?

[George]

You're the only one who talks about that. That wasn't us.

[Craig]

That wasn't us.

[George]

That was one of your stories. No, I can't really think of one. They all just seem really sad and that maybe they shouldn't have been together in the first place.

[Gordon]

That's the thing you ever known. Two people that can't quit each other despite the fact that the entire world knows that these two people shouldn't be together.

[Craig]

Oh yeah.

[Gordon]

But they just cycle in and out of that relationship over and over again and you're just so tired of hearing about the latest drama.

[George]

They're back together. Really

[Craig]

yeah. I've known several couples where everybody thought they don't belong together, they don't need to be getting married. And in almost all of those cases, six months to three years down the road, they were divorced.

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

It's like everybody on Everybody can see it, but you can't say anything to those people.

[George]

No.

[Gordon]

You ever been in love with someone who wasn't in love with you? I've never had that experience.

[George]

I don't think so. I mean, I've been very interested and they weren't. So that's about as close.

[Gordon]

But you weren't like friends or close to them in any way? No, just kind of acquaintances.

[George]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Just had an interest, but because it wasn't reciprocated, it never was allowed to get to the point of being in love.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

What about. Have you ever gotten together with someone that one of your friends also had a serious relationship with before?

[Craig]

Serious. No.

[George]

No.

[Craig]

But I have dated people that were. That did date friends of mine, but never serious to me.

[Gordon]

That ought to not be allowed. I don't think I could do that.

[Craig]

I don't think I could do that. If a buddy dated someone for three years and then broke up, I would not date that person.

[Gordon]

Yes.

[Craig]

That's too weird.

[Gordon]

And I've had so many disagreements with people about this issue. Like, to me, it seems like it's an unspoken rule. Right. Once your buddy has a serious relationship with that person, even if they break up, that's off the table.

[Craig]

Yeah. There's no way.

[George]

Yeah. There's parameters there. They're in there. Like, how long did they go out? How good a friends. How good a friend is that other person? I think there's. There's some.

[Gordon]

George is pleading for wiggle room here.

[George]

No, I'm just saying it. I. I think it's kind of silly. If someone goes. Like in the scenario, if a friend of yours who's a good friend and they dated for a month, and that's A month.

[Craig]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[George]

There's parameters. Well, what is it then? A year?

[Craig]

It's got to be a. Yeah, serious, serious relationship. At least a year or two. Somewhere in there.

[George]

Okay. Then on the other side of it is how good a friend are you? Like, with that person that they used to date? Because I think that matters too.

[Gordon]

So you're saying that you would give up the friendship with that guy if you really like the girl?

[George]

Yeah. If it really didn't matter to you? Yeah.

[Jim Rome]

You do that.

[Craig]

Yeah. They've got to be in your top 5 to 10 of friends. Yeah, because outside of that, they become

[George]

more acquaintances, Guardrails, that's all.

[Gordon]

Yet how many people? I swear, in my grandparents generation, I used to hear about this, one of them would die, Right. Not my grandparents. But one of their friends die, becomes a widow or widower, and then they'd end up marrying the best friend of that person. I don't know whether it's just they had a small social circle or whatever, but it's these people, they all grew up together, and so it's someone that they know, they don't want to go into old age being alone, and then they end up with their wife's best friend after their wife dies. And that just seems weird to me. I mean, I want them to be happy, but that just feels like you're creating a situation where you're going to be haunted.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

And I've seen women, old women, who knew they were going to die, so they were going to widow their husband.

[Craig]

And they set them up.

[Gordon]

Yes. Set up their husband saying, hey, when I'm gone, you know, you really ought to date whoever, Betsy sue, you know, she's a good woman and everything, and she'll take care of you and all that.

[Craig]

That's awfully big of them.

[Gordon]

Yeah. That takes a pretty big heart to do something like that.

[Craig]

That's kind of impressive, actually.

[Gordon]

Yeah. I'm more deathbed threats that if you ever look at someone else, you love

[Craig]

your husband so much that after you're gone, you want them to be so happy that you're going to set them up.

[Gordon]

Yeah. That's not true love to me.

[Craig]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gordon]

That's definition wrong.

[George]

That was the theme of Pearl harbor, the movie. Not the. The old movie, but the one from.

[Gordon]

What's that based on?

[George]

It's just a romantic story. And the guys. Pearl harbor best friends.

[Gordon]

That's what people were referring to when they say Pearl Harbor.

[George]

No, no, no, no, no. It was a movie made 20 years ago, and the guys were like, best friends. And one of them, they thought was lost in combat, but it turns out he comes back, and as he comes

[Gordon]

back, his best friend is with this woman.

[Craig]

But not true historical fiction. They just.

[George]

I don't think it was true.

[Craig]

Wrote that for the movie.

[Jim Rome]

Yeah.

[George]

It was just for the movie.

[Craig]

In that historical suit.

[George]

Yeah.

[Gordon]

All right. There's so much that we can talk to. I didn't even get to half the stuff that I wanted to. But that's okay. You know, that's what other podcast episodes are for. That's what's great.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Gordon]

We have more to talk about than we could possibly ever do in our lifetime. That's what's wonderful about this. Thanks for listening to this. Remember, whole back catalog is available. Peter Weldon, thank you for producing this episode.

[George]

Way go, Peter.

[Gordon]

And I'd like to thank Muffin for sitting in. Talk too much, Muffin. Yeah, I know, but I always love it when you're in here.

[George]

I appreciate it.

[Craig]

Say hi to Mr. Pepperman.

[George]

I will. Thank you, Mr. Pepper.

[Craig]

Hey, I'm Chris Van Fleet. Go behind the scenes and beyond the headlines with the biggest names in pro wrestling and beyond. Mr. Sandman. All I ever wanted to be was a pro wrestler, so I got to

[Gordon]

live my life and make people really happy.

[Craig]

The Heartbreak Kid himself, Shawn Michaels. Do you think there's anybody better than you were?

[Gordon]

I think I was great at what

[Craig]

I did, and I think other people

[George]

were great at what they did as well.

[Craig]

Greatness is more minor mindset, I think, than anything else. Mindset, motivation, Insight. With Chris VanVleet. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.