Jerry's World - Episode 53

Summary

The Musers The Podcast – Episode 53: Jerry’s World
Recorded in Oxnard, California during Dallas Cowboys Training Camp (August 5, 2026)
Hosted by George Dunham, Craig “Junior” Miller, and Gordon Keith

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the enduring influence and legacy of Jerry Jones—owner and GM of the Dallas Cowboys—on the franchise, the NFL, and American sports culture at large. Broadcasting on-site from Oxnard, CA, the Musers delve into Jerry’s transformative business moves, his enigmatic personality, and what his omnipresent leadership means for the Cowboys’ future. Banter, nostalgia, and irreverent impersonations punctuate their analysis, underscoring the unique blend of absurdity and insight that the Musers are known for.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Complexity and Appeal of American Football

• The Musers kick off with offbeat banter about trading places as show hosts, segueing into a tongue-in-cheek debate about whether American football is inherently more complex than soccer or baseball.
  • [02:26] Gordon Keith (C): “Is soccer… does it have as much complication as American football?”
  • [02:59] Craig (D): “American football is way more complicated than soccer… Soccer is more complicated than it appears, but football is way more detailed.”
  • [04:27] Gordon (C): “As a lay sports person… it takes me a while to pull apart a whole play in football, as opposed to baseball, it seems very obvious.”
• Conclusion: American football’s complexity and structure, via set plays and numerous rules, is a core part of what makes it “America’s game.”

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2. Letter of the Week: “Hotel Bathroom Hack”

• [06:19] Listener Damian praises Junior’s life hack—using the lobby bathrooms of fancy hotels on road trips and the tip to use a cell phone as a prop to avoid staff scrutiny.
  • [07:41] Gordon (C): “I think they're already onto it. I think they know people do that and they just don't care.”
  • [07:55] Junior (D): “It's a hack I've used for 30 plus years. I’ll use that [cell phone] if I see somebody I don’t want to talk to—I’ll pull out the phone and pretend to be talking.”
• Lighthearted banter about uniforms and Musers podcast shirts follows.
  • [09:34] Gordon (C): “They always say, can you get me one? And I always say, do you have Internet access?”

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3. Jerry Jones: The Most Powerful Man in American Sports

The Business Visionary

• [11:40] The Musers explore Jerry’s early business moves—moving Cowboys training camp, restoring the team’s “rock star” aura in Texas.
• [13:38] George (B): “So a guy who talks like that is the most powerful man in American sports… but I hope I’m doing as well at 83 as Jerry is.”
• [13:52] Notable quote: “I could give you his opening speech from February of 1989. It wouldn’t sound much different than that. I was there.”
• Jerry’s background in television with KARK Little Rock and leveraging this into NFL TV negotiations ([16:00–19:05]).
  • Brought Fox into NFL broadcasting, ballooning franchise and league revenues into the billions.
  • [17:19] Craig (D): “It was so big in Dallas-Fort Worth that Channel 4 flipped and became a Fox affiliate because they wanted Cowboy games.”
• [19:50] On pioneering local sponsorships and litigation with the NFL over merchandise and stadium rights:
  • [20:41] Gordon (C): “What a ballsy move that was for Jerry to do that. To take on the NFL.”
  • [21:29] Reminiscing about Jerry countersuing the NFL for $750 million and “changing the way of thinking” in sports business.
• [22:28] Stadium innovation and real estate foresight (Frisco development); influence on modern sports venue trends.

The Enigma and the Family Business

• [24:30] Jerry’s estimated net worth: the group speculates he’s worth at least $30 billion or more.
  • [24:43] George (B): “Jerry will never sell the team.”
  • [24:49] Gordon (C): “His kids love this team... I think they want it to be a multi-generational family business for the next hundred years.”
• [25:45] Discussion: Does ownership or management philosophy prevent the Cowboys from winning another Super Bowl?
  • [26:57] George (B): “Since Jimmy, I am not going to get into another power struggle.”
• [28:00+] Theory: Is current coach Brian Schottenheimer a unique “Jerry tamer” capable of working within Jerry’s system?
  • [29:21] Gordon (C): “He knows how to basically manipulate Jerry.”
  • [29:35] Craig (D): “Or is Jerry also more open to be manipulated now that he’s 83 and thinks, ‘Okay, I’ll try anything?’”

Persona vs. Power

• [30:34] Gordon (C): “He’s a mixture of this most powerful multi-billionaire guy… and he’s still that guy from Arkansas with a lot of personal charm.”
• [31:37] Real estate vision: Frisco, Texas development
  • [32:03] Gordon (C): “The Cowboys have this cultural force where their cheerleading outfit is known as much as the team is known.”

Pop Culture and Brand Expansion

• [34:40] Parallel drawn between Jerry Jones and iconic fictional characters like J.R. Ewing (Dallas) and Eli Gemstone (The Righteous Gemstones).
  • [35:11] Craig (D): “Jerry has always reminded me of J.R. Ewing, and I think Jerry sees himself as J.R. Ewing… country bumpkin, but filthy rich and the most powerful guy in town.”
• [36:54] The cultural impact of the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders and their prominence through TV and Netflix.

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4. Media, Revenue, and the Enduring Rise of the NFL

• [38:00] Despite on-field struggles, the Cowboys (and NFL writ large) are unrivaled in brand power, marketing, and broadcast revenue.
• [41:16] Discussion: Is NFL growth sustainable? Will America’s interest ever wane?
  • Craig (D): “So much of it hinges on TV deals, media deals… as long as ratings keep going up, networks will pay more.”
• [41:58] Speculation on whether issues like player safety, CTE, and cultural attitudes to violence might be a “tipping point” for the NFL.
  • [43:06] Gordon (C): “I think people are going to watch no matter what… that’s the part of the thrill.”

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5. Banter & “Keeping up with the Joneses” (Cartoon Project)

• [43:35] Gordon updates on his voice acting work as “Fake Jerry” for the forthcoming Adult Swim animated series, Keeping up with the Joneses.
  • [45:00] Gordon (C): “10 episodes of Keeping up with the Joneses. It’s about the family that lives next door… to the Jerry Jones family in Highland Park. Wheels off family that lives there.”
  • [46:42] Gordon (C): “It’s been the most rewarding voice, for sure… Jerry Jones as the character just keeps on giving.”
• Endearing moment of generational fandom: George’s grandson doing “Fake Jerry” and “Ticket Mouse” impressions ([47:02–48:10]).
  • [47:55] Gordon (C): “I got to do a little ticket mouse voice for him – made their year.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments (Timestamps)

• [02:59] Craig (D): “American football is way more complicated than soccer just in terms of X’s and O’s.”
• [07:55] Craig (D): “It's a hack I’ve used for 30 plus years… if I see somebody coming my way that I don't want to talk to, I'll pull out the phone and pretend to be talking.”
• [13:38] George (B): “So a guy who talks like that is the most powerful man in American sports.”
• [20:41] Gordon (C): “What a ballsy move that was for Jerry to do that. To take on the NFL… God, man.”
• [24:49] Gordon (C): “His kids love this team and… they want it to be a multi-generational family business going for the next hundred years.”
• [29:21] Gordon (C): “I just wonder if Shoddy knows how to do the give and take better than anyone to this point.”
• [35:11] Craig (D): “Jerry has always reminded me of J.R. Ewing… that country bumpkin, but filthy rich and the most powerful guy in town.”
• [41:16] Craig (D): “So much of [the NFL’s growth] hinges on TV deals… as long as the ratings are going up, the networks will pay more.”
• [46:42] Gordon (C): “It’s been the most rewarding voice for sure… Jerry Jones as the character just keeps on giving.”

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Highlighted Segment Timestamps

• Hotel Restroom Hack: [06:13]–[09:50]
• Jerry’s TV Deal Revolution: [13:38]–[19:05]
• Jerry vs. NFL Lawsuits: [19:50]–[22:28]
• Family Ownership & Future: [24:30]–[26:42]; [39:01]–[40:23]
• NFL’s Revenue Rocket: [23:37]–[24:30]; [41:16]–[43:35]
• Cultural Touchpoints (J.R. Ewing, Cheerleaders): [34:40]–[37:49]
• Cartoon Network Series “Keeping up with the Joneses”: [43:35]–[45:27]
• Fan Engagement (Generational Fandom): [47:02]–[48:10]

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Tone and Style

Laid-back, witty, and irreverent—rich with banter, impersonations, and self-depreciation, yet peppered with sharp business analysis and genuine local sports insight. The episode captures the Musers’ love-hate fascination with Jerry Jones, the Cowboys, and all things DFW sports.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is an excellent primer on why Jerry Jones remains at the heart of Cowboys lore and NFL history—equal parts innovator, disruptor, and enduring showman. You’ll gain insight into the business machinations that transformed pro football and Dallas itself, laugh at the hosts’ playful ribbing, and appreciate the peculiar charisma of both the musers and their favorite billionaire owner.

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Summary by Podcast Summarizer AI – 2026

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up, required compatibility and availability. Veris18

[B]

I am convinced until he takes his last breath, he is the owner and the GM of this team. It's the Musers.

[C]

Sorry, I didn't know if you wanted me to start.

[B]

We just clearly talked about I was going to start this week. It's the Muser is the podcast and we are on the road for episode 53. We are in California, Oxnard, California, which is the home of Dallas Cowboys training camp for the 20th season. I'm George.

[C]

I'm Gordon.

[D]

I'm Gordon.

[B]

No, you're Craig.

[C]

Yeah, right. We ought to switch one podcast and each try to do each other's character.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

I'll talk about bike riding and having gray hair and being fit.

[B]

It sounds like a great idea.

[C]

That's all I have written for your character so far.

[B]

Sounds like a great. You're off to a good start.

[D]

See me as so shallow, don't you?

[B]

We're off to a great.

[C]

That's all I really know about you.

[D]

After 30 years of knowing me, I

[C]

haven't paid close attention.

[B]

Well, football won't officially start for the National Football League regular season games until September, but many see it as the start of football season when teams report the training camp. And most of them did last week. And even before the Cowboys reported at the beginning of last week, there were some teams that had already started. And this is what gets us going into our favorite season in the sports world. Anyway, anyway, in this country, and that is football, not soccer. Football. I know they call it football over there, but this is what we call football. When you put on helmets and you go 11 on 11 and you try to advance the ball.

[E]

Hey.

[B]

Down the hundred yard field.

[C]

Here's a stupid sports question for my two sports experts.

[B]

Okay, we'll try.

[C]

Is soccer is. Does it have as much complication as is American football?

[B]

What do you mean?

[C]

Like, I think that if I was a foreigner and tried to start even understanding American football, it would confuse me greatly because there seems to be so many rules.

[B]

That's a good one. Although, I mean, even watching the World cup this summer, I still have questions about soccer. I Would say as far as rules

[D]

go, American football is way more complicated than soccer just in terms of X's and O's.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, I think it's way more complicated. Soccer is more complicated than it appears.

[C]

Right.

[D]

But football is way more detailed.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I would say.

[C]

So how many different positions are in soccer?

[D]

Same.

[C]

Same as football.

[D]

Yeah. You have 11.

[C]

And they each have a different position.

[D]

Yep. But they each just kind of run around.

[C]

Yeah, that's what it looks like. Stupid American eyes.

[D]

It's so much more unstructured because the clock never stops. There are no. There are set pieces. As they say in soccer. You. You do have designed plays, but I would say most of it is just kind of free flowing, relatively speaking, to American football where every play has a

[C]

design, every play is so coordinated, every

[D]

player on every play has a specific job to do. And that's not the case in soccer.

[B]

But I think you're right. I think if you're trying to explain the game of football to someone and they're seeing it for the first time, they're going to have probably eight times the amount of questions as someone's walking, watching a soccer game for the first time. Yeah. It can be complicated.

[C]

And it seems more comp. It's certainly more complicated than baseball. American baseball, to me.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Although I think someone who sees a baseball game for the first time about foul balls and count and all that would. It may take just a little bit of time.

[C]

Yeah. But when I, as a. As a lay sports person, if I'm watching a baseball game, it seems much more intelligible to me than when a play starts in football and it's over in a matter of four seconds. But everybody was moving in a coordinated way that. Doing specific things that it takes me a while to pull apart A whole play. In football, as opposed to baseball, it seems very obvious. The guy hits the ball and that guy runs over and tries to get it and field it and throw them out.

[D]

Just think about the difference in what you can do with the game piece. American football compared to soccer. In soccer, you can pretty much only kick it unless you're the goalkeeper. Then you can use your hands. But in American football, you can kick it either held on the ground or punt it. You can throw it, you can run with it, you can dive on it, you can battle, you can do so

[B]

much and stomp on one another. And I don't know what all.

[C]

I knew you were going to go into that stupid routine.

[B]

That's a great routine. It was a great.

[C]

But it's what makes American football great is that it's so complicated. I guess that's what makes it great.

[B]

Yeah, there's a lot of things that go into wasn't America's game for a long time. And that's part of what we're going to talk about today because I think we take this dude for granted a little bit just because we hear from him so much being in Dallas Fort Worth. But all of America hears from Jerry Jones so much. He's always on the screen. If you watch sports and you watch national sports on ESPN or you're watching coverage of the NFL on Sunday, at some point you will hear a reference or they'll show video of Jerry and what he has to say and what the Cowboys are doing. But we do have a letter of the week if you guys want to hear.

[C]

Yes, let's get to that before we get into you kissing Jerry's ass again.

[B]

Well, this comes to us from Damian, who would like to congratulate Craig for being a genius.

[D]

Oh, I like this already.

[B]

Yes, I figured you would. This goes back to our road trip program a couple of weeks ago where Craig's life hack on. If you have to use the restroom and you're on a long road trip to use the hotel bathroom, the nicest

[D]

hotel you can find. Along the way, he adds to it,

[B]

you can walk into any hotel and act like you you belong and suddenly you're a guest. Those employees are just working their shift and they don't understand or they don't know that everyone who is staying there. He says, add this one little item. The cell phone is a great prop. You gotta be on it and as and just acknowledge and smile when you walk by a hotel employee. But they won't bother you because you're on your cell phone. Same thing when you leave on your phone. And they won't even think twice about it. Craig, I hope bringing this to the forefront doesn't ruin it for the rest of us geniuses who have been enjoying this as a hack as the way to go to the restroom in a nice clean bathroom. And it is the best way to go. And I wonder, as it does catch on, if we're gonna have start having bathroom police at hotel lobbies.

[C]

I think they're already onto it. I think they know people do that and they just don't care.

[B]

Maybe.

[C]

Yeah, you don't need to fake the high level phone call making international business deals when you're walking through the lobby sprinting towards the bathroom.

[D]

Although it's a nice touch and he's right. People are not going to bother you if they think you're in the middle of a call. But it's always going to be the cleanest bathroom that you can find on the road. Hotels keep their lobby bathrooms pretty pristine compared to certainly any gas station bathroom or truck stop bathroom. So yeah, it's a hack I've used for 30 plus years. And I have also used the phone thing. Maybe not always going into and out of the hotel bathroom, but I will use that if I don't know. Let's say I'm walking down the street and I see somebody coming my way that I don't want to talk to. I'll pull out the phone and pretend to be talking.

[B]

I never thought about that.

[C]

I've always wondered why I always get you on the phone. Like, God, this guy talks on the phone. Every time I want to go up and talk to Craig, he's always on the phone call.

[D]

But it's a great little security blanket to wrap yourself in to prevent you from having to do something you don't want to or talk to somebody you don't want to.

[B]

Yeah, it's a great hack that I hadn't thought of. So thanks, Damian. And you can email us at themuserspodmail. You can also get muser [e-mail] look, the great Gordo's wearing the Musers the

[C]

podcast T shirt representing this morning. This is the second Monday in a row I've worn a Muser's the Musers the podcast T shirt.

[B]

How many shirts do you have in your rotation?

[C]

I have four of these that look exactly like this one for the Musers the podcast shirts.

[B]

It's a good looking shirt. Yeah, I gotta gotta say it is.

[C]

And I wear it. And so many of my friends have asked, man, I want to get one of those.

[B]

Just go to the musers.com that's what

[C]

I always tell them. They always say, can you get me one? And I always say, do you have Internet access?

[B]

That's the best way to do it.

[D]

Are you going to wear one every Monday like a uniform every time we record the podcast?

[C]

I'm trying to, I like trying to just to remind you, just to remind

[B]

you that you have to do a podcast.

[C]

That's fine. It's a life hack for me.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. You can or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses Setup required Compatibility and availability Various 18

[F]

Stream the biggest moments in sports live on Fox 1. The biggest names, the biggest games, the biggest matchups. Watch live or catch up on your schedule at home or on the go. Never miss a moment. All on FOX one stream now.

[B]

Well, we are a training camp and we've been to a lot of these things over the years. The Cowboys have moved around. As I said last year I covered Tom Landry's last training camp in 1988. That was in Thousand Oaks, California. Then Jerry bought the team that next February. They had another training camp out here in Thousand Oaks and then they moved it to Texas. And as we're going to talk about today, who I think is the most powerful man in American sports, Jerry Jones. He has had some really good ideas and moving it back to Texas, I think that endeared him to a lot of Cowboy fans in the state of wow, I don't have to travel all the way out to California. And we were there, Craig, at that first Cowboys training camp in Austin. And you would have thought the Rolling Stones must have been playing along with them because they were like a rock band there.

[D]

Yeah. And they hadn't even yet won the first of their three Super Bowls under Jerry, but they were still very much America's team coming out of the Roger Danny era. Yeah.

[B]

Thank you for adding Danny to that list. Hey, he went to three straight NFC championship games.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

What would this team do to accomplish something like that? And that's the amazing thing about. Well, there's so many things that are amazing about the Cowboys and Jerry. They haven't been close to a Super bowl. And now 30 years, ever since the 95, 96 season since they went to a Super Bowl, a Super Bowl 30, and they won it over the Pittsburgh Steelers. But they have not been to an NFC title game since. They have not won two games in the postseason since. And yet they're still on top of the mountain. They still generate more revenue than any pro sports team in our country. And this is why we don't, I don't think, talk about it too much on a radio show and we may get to it a time or two on our podcast because we hear from Jerry so much day in and day out. And when they had the grand opening of training camp this past weekend, Jerry addresses the crowd here in Oxnard California. And this is what they hear.

[E]

What you're going to see out here this next few weeks is the thing that the mayor has. And when you look at accomplished people, you see the only way to have it when you need it, the only way you can possibly, in our case with the New York Giants, have it when we open up, is to put it in right out here at training camp. It can't come out if it doesn't go in.

[B]

So a guy vulgar who talks like that is the most powerful man in American sports. And you may say, okay, well, he's 83. Give him some slack. And I do. I. I hope I'm doing as well at 83 as Jerry is.

[D]

He's doing great for 83.

[B]

He really is. And I could give you his opening speech from February of 1989. It wouldn't sound much different than that I was there.

[C]

That as well as would sound a little bit more, a little bit clearer.

[B]

But it was still that cadence in just a speech that, as you always say, Gordo needs to be rewritten every time he addresses the public.

[C]

Yeah, every time he speaks, he's always about three rewrites away.

[B]

No, there's a decent idea there, but let's rewrite it. And it's a pretty amazing story. As he always. We've heard this story so many times about when he bought The Cowboys for 140 million. He had to put everything he had into it, everything. And just hope he could make a deal with Bum Bright. And then just four years into it. And we've heard all the Jerry stories from having his credit card cut up at one point back when he was a salesman and all that. But I don't recall this story. Maybe you do. This is four years, or right at the four year mark of Jerry being an owner in the NFL. This is 92 going to 93. So the NFL was in talks with their networks and they were talking about doing an extension for TV rights. And the deal that was on the table was, let's extend it for two years, but every, every franchise will have to give $3 million back. And Jerry said, I just bought this team for 140 million. We are not doing that. And here's this guy who has no television experience except one little thing. And I did not realize this. Jerry at one point had part ownership in Kark in Little Rock way back in the day. This is back in the 60s. And as he said, it's the I Love Lucy story. Because as they were buying programming, he wondered, why do they have to spend. And back then, let's just say it was a million dollars for the entire season. Why did they have to pay a million dollars for I Love Lucy reruns? And it was explained to him, well, that type of programming brings an audience in that will watch our other programs, from network programming to the stuff we produce locally. So he took that very small experience in TV and told his fellow NFL owners, we need to present this to the networks like they need us. Yeah, the numbers are down, but this is going to help them promote their prime time during the week programmes, when back then it was basically just the three networks. But then in came Fox. And he said, I've got these guys at Fox that are willing to pay more than these other networks are paying. And the next thing you knew in 93, remember what a big story that was that Fox was going to carry NFC games, cowboy games.

[D]

It was so big in the Dallas Fort Worth market that the CBS station, Channel 4, that had the NFL and had the NFC because it was CBS, so they had the cowboy games. When Fox took over the NFL, Channel 4 flipped and became a Fox affiliate. Because they wanted cowboy games.

[B]

Yeah. And a lot of it was, well, that's just the way it's always been. CBS has been a partner with us since the 1950s. But Jerry's point was, I thought y' all wanted to make money. Can we make some money here? And he brought Fox and it just changed everything. Then CBS, a couple of years later in 98, took the AFC games away from NBC for $500 million. And so now you look at the competition that got started between these networks and now you throw in streaming for it. So now you've got ESPN, ABC, Fox, CBS, NBC, Amazon, YouTube. And now we are talking billions and billions of dollars. By 2016, it went up to $7 billion and each team got $209 million. Just last year, 2025 TV revenue $14.5 billion. That's $450 million to each team. All 32. That is more than the NHL, MLB and NBA combined. All of that started with Jerry asking the question, well, why are we just saying, okay, we're going to do this? Because that's what the networks want. Why don't we tell them, hey, this is a valuable program that you need. And he changed everything. And so many people have written about turned millionaire owners into billionaire owners. And it really changed the landscape of the NFL and all of our professional sports in this country. Just on that one off season.

[D]

Yeah, they went from potentially paying CBS $3 million each team, just to keep the TV deal. The team's paying CBS $3 million to now. Each team getting 400 million a year in revenue from the TV deals.

[B]

And that was about the same time. 95. And that was a long time ago. So some of our younger listeners will not remember this, but the Cowboys opened the season in New York. And that's when Jerry broke it that, you know what? We're going to sell our own stadium sponsorships. We're going to have our own marketing of our own team. He brought Phil Knight onto the sidelines from Nike, and all of a sudden he was. He sued the NFL.

[C]

So Nike was not the sponsor for the NFL at that point.

[F]

Right, right.

[B]

They were not.

[C]

They were Adidas or something like that. Was the official.

[D]

Maybe.

[B]

Yeah. I'm not. I can't remember who Reebok could have been. Reebok. But here Jerry says, no, we're going to be Nike. And by the way, we're going to sell Pepsi at Texas Stadium. And his point was, these are our stadiums. And by the way, we may use them for other things, so why can't we have our own local sponsors? And so the NFL sued him for 300 million. Jerry comes back at him and says, okay, I will countersue you now for 750 million. And he ended up winning. The Cowboys are the only team that had that carve out. And they finally got that around 2002, that they sell their own merchandise. They pay back some to the league, but they go out and sell their own deal because they know they sell more than everybody.

[C]

And what a ballsy move that was for Jerry to do that. To take on the NFL.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The entirety of the NFL. Because, I mean, you know, it's not like Jerry is the only billionaire in the NFL. These are powerful people. All those guys who own those teams are powerful. And you have the most popular sport in America.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And to go against them on something that they're gonna hold sacred, which is their monopolistic enterprise to make money.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And him going rogue, it's just. God, man.

[B]

Get it.

[C]

And how nervous would you be? Sued for $300 million didn't phase him.

[B]

I'm sure it did. I'm sure it made him really nervous. And just that thing of, man, I'm taking on the establishment here. But it changed the way of thinking. And then. Okay, so now your timeline.

[C]

They talk about that in that documentary, didn't they? On Jerry's. When he left the room, they made him leave the room. They talked to NFL owners and they Talked about him and he was on, basically on the verge of tears.

[B]

And he came back and said, I'm going to countersue and I'm going to get every cent. But it changed the way of thinking that brought a the big stadiums. Then you go into the aughts and Jerry started talking about funding a new stadium. He put down some of his money too. But it's a billion dollar stadium and now the practice facility that goes along with it that anchors this huge development. And think about that. Other NFL teams are doing that now. Everyone's trying to duplicate that now. NBA and NHL teams are trying to do their home stadiums like that. I'm telling you, that has to go back to Jerry and his vision for all this. And he got owners thinking in a totally different way.

[D]

Nobody wants to split a stadium or an arena with a neighboring team.

[B]

No.

[D]

Like we've seen in Dallas with the Mavericks and the Stars and in LA with the Lakers and the Clippers. Everybody wants their own building so they can make all of the money. Yeah.

[B]

And for the fan of the football team, I know it falls upon deaf ears, especially with the Cowboys tradition of winning from the 60s all the way up until 1990. It was, you know, from the 60s until 90s, 30 years of excellence. It really was. If you, if they weren't in the super bowl, they were playing for the right to go to the Super bowl eight out of those first 16 years. So I think this kind of falls on deaf ears to Cowboy fans and including me. Sometimes I'm like, yeah, after I've heard some of those stats, it's like, well, who cares? It's what happens on the field that really matters. But it is impressive. And it's for those who debated if he should be in the Pro Football hall of Fame. He didn't just change the NFL, he changed pro sports in this country over the last 30 years.

[D]

No doubt. He also changed his bank account. When he bought the team, his net worth was way less than 100 or 50 million. Oh yeah, and today it is worth 20 billion. But I put it at even higher than that. Forbes has him at 20 billion. I think it's higher than that because I think if he were to sell the Cowboys today, they would sell for $20 billion. Because you have other NFL teams now that are approaching 10 billion. And the Lakers sold for 10 billion in the NBA. And the Cowboys are so far and away, I think, the most coveted franchise out there. Oh yeah, that somebody would pay 20 billion. So you know, all of his other real estate and oil and gas, that's all worth, they think, you know, at least 10 billion. So I think he's worth at least 30 billion.

[B]

I do too. They put his worth at 20 and so. But I, Yeah, I think it's. I think it's beyond 30. But as we all know, with some owners, you think, yeah, someday he might. Jerry will never sell the team.

[D]

No way.

[B]

The next generation, See, I don't think they will either.

[C]

I think that his kids love this team and they, I mean, they're all involved in it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Grandchildren. And Jerry Jr. None of them are interested in selling this team. I think they want it to be a multi generational family business going for the next hundred years.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's why some think, well, that's great. Are the Cowboys going to win another Super Bowl 30 years from now? It's going to be 60 years between titles. I don't think so. I think if you get the right coach, the right players, it almost. It doesn't matter who your owner is. Even if he is out in front and doing a lot of crazy things like Jerry is, they could have won one in the last 30 years. They just haven't had the right coach. And you could say, well, it's Jerry's fault and maybe 90% of that is. But I think it could have worked and I still think it can work.

[D]

You can make the argument, though, that it is the owner because Cardinals fans will say the Bidwells have been the worst owners and we don't have a title in 60 years. So it can be an owner that derails your title hopes.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Cardinal fans will swear it's their ownership is the reason that they haven't won. And these days, a lot of Cowboy fans swear it's their ownership.

[C]

But does Jerry refuse to invest in the team? Like, is it one of these deals where they just feel he's an uninterested owner who's all about just. He's like a vulture that comes in and cuts all the staff and makes sure nobody is paid no where he can extract the maximum amount of money.

[B]

But they don't lead the. In fact, they're worst in extra spending on roster, which is always mystifying to Cowboy fans. You know, you can put more of your capital forward with their coaching staff. They're never the highest paid coaching staff in the league.

[D]

That's one reason people thought he went out and got Brian Schottenheimer, because he was. I mean, he's probably among the lowest paid coaches in football.

[B]

Yeah. The only time that he I don't

[C]

understand why Jerry would cut that corner. Like, why? What is that?

[B]

Because this goes back into his biggest criticism, and I'm right there, too. I wish if he thinks he has the right guy, like back when Parcells was here and he did get out of the way and kind of let Parcels do what he wanted, but he still jumped in there, and that's why he had to playing here. But I think that's the one thing. When Jimmy left, by the way, he was the one that had the foresight to hire Jimmy, which was a great hire. Jimmy turned out to be. And up until that point, no one from the college ranks had made it as an NFL coach. Jimmy changed that around, but since then, it has been, well, I am not going to get into another power struggle. I'm going to make sure that whoever the coach is here, he knows that I'm the one in charge. And that goes for football operations, too.

[C]

But he did it with Parcels.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That was the only time he experimented with a strong coach that can override Jerry.

[B]

Yeah. Yes. Now, I put this out on the Cowboys podcast last week with Bob. See what you think of this theory. If. If it works with Brian Schottenheimer. And I. I really like him. I've said it a million times. I think he's doing a lot of things right. We'll see if it works. But if it does, I've already seen some examples. I don't think Shotty is more powerful than Jerry, but I think he's. I think he knows how to work with him. Almost like a Jerry tamer, you know, a charmer, knowing how to work him for Jerry. Trust me, this is something we really need to do. His name's Christian Parker. We have to go get him. You may want another head. A guy who's been a head coach out there, but I'm telling you, all these years in the game, I know this is going to be a great defensive coordinator or we need to do this in the draft. I wonder. I'm not saying he has that control or has that influence, but I just wonder if as charismatic as Shotty is, if he's learned how to work Jerry, which none of these other coaches, they kind of just go slump shoulder and go, well, that's just the way it is around here. Or if they've fought him and didn't win like Parcells. Well, I think left with some frustration. I just wonder if Shotty knows how to do the give and take better than anyone to this point, that he

[C]

knows how to basically manipulate Jerry, Right. Hey, Jerry, I want you to get credit for hiring one of the best defensive guys ever. Maybe he words it in a way that makes Jerry, it's your idea and everything. And I think it's a great idea.

[B]

Jerry, maybe that could be.

[D]

Or is Jerry also more open to be manipulated now that he's 83 and thinks, okay, I'll try anything because what I've been doing hasn't worked?

[B]

Yeah, he's getting, getting him at a time where he's a little more willing to give. He's late in his life and he's seen, he's seen it along with us. 30 years of ultimate failure of, okay, I'll trust you. I trusted you enough to hire you. I'll trust you here in it. What was that part about me getting credit for it? Yeah, I really like that idea.

[C]

I like that part. That's my favorite part of what you said.

[B]

But it is funny how it just, it doesn't match the most powerful man in American sports. Doesn't match the guy you see on the street. And we see him sometimes behind the scene putting a couple pizza boxes in the trunk and you know, just doing things that a normal guy would do. Spending time with his grandkids or, you know, telling you about how great his mom's meatloaf is? Just real run of the mill, everyday

[C]

strange character he really is. He's a mixture of, yeah, this most powerful 20, multi billionaire guy. And he's also still that guy from Arkansas who has a lot of personal charm to him. I mean, when you talk to him, he can, he can really charm you. He's got that salesman charm to him.

[B]

Yeah, I could see how he's done really well in sales. And that's another thing I give him credit for. We didn't realize all this was going on. We heard back channel, hey, Jerry's bought a lot of land in Frisco and back 30 years ago. For those who live outside the area, Frisco is this suburb of Dallas that 30 years ago really was farmland. And it kind of sounded like a crazy idea. Okay, well, what's that going to be? Well, now it's the hub of growth in Dallas Fort Worth. That whole area, Denton county is going to be bigger than Dallas county here in about 10 years. Was that dumb luck or is that Jerry thinking, I think the growth is out there? Did someone tell him? And he listened because that's brought him

[C]

hundreds of millions of dollars money up there. And it's, you know, and I don't know how involved Jerry is in this decision, like I mentioned to you guys recently, that I'm way into watching that Dallas Cowboy cheerleader show on Netflix and I wonder if Jerry is in any way part of that or decided that or pushed for that or whether he just said it was okay. It's awesome for the Cowboys.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

To have this cultural forest where they're known as their cheerleading outfit is known as much as the team is known. And you have a Netflix series that's bring in all sorts of exposure. And that Netflix series is nothing but an advertisement for the star in Frisco and Jerryville that he's built up there. It is full of beauty shots of Jerry world.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's such a great marketing thing for him. And yeah, he had the foresight to do that. And I think it's interesting that the Dallas Cowboys of all these franchises have had two of the most influential and innovative people in sports ownership and management with Tech Schramm and Jerry Jones.

[B]

Same thing.

[C]

Yeah. Just an innovator.

[B]

When Texas stadium opened in 1971, it was seen as, oh my gosh, this is a space age stadium. And Jerry just added to that. You remember when he bought the team in 89 and into the early 90s and he started adding all these suites and we're thinking, man, number one, they kind of look tacky.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Number two, why? Well, it was revenue. And all of a sudden Texas Stadium had more suites than any other NFL team.

[D]

He stuck random seats over entry portals coming into the stadium. Like there'd be four seats on top of this entrance way.

[B]

But think about it. Count all the portals in a stadium, add that up over eight home games and all of a sudden you've got real revenue. He found a way to monetize all of this. And we haven't even talked about oil and gas, which brings in millions and millions and millions. I don't know if it's to the bill. I guess if that gas exploration works in East Texas, it will be billions. So yeah, in a matter of years he's probably going to be worth a hundred billion.

[A]

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[D]

Now, you know, I find it interesting that you said that his Persona, this kind of country bumpkin, doesn't mesh with him being the most powerful guy in the NFL or one of the most powerful guys in American society, media, whatever it is. To me, it always has meshed because of J.R. ewing. Because I watched the TV show Dallas and Junior had that thick Texas drawl.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And he was, he had the down home sayings and all of that. And Jerry has always reminded me of J.R. ewing. And I think Jerry sees himself as J.R. ewing. I'm sure Jerry watched Dallas.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

And that was right before he bought the team. And right as he bought the team, that TV show had peaked. And so he was. He naturally assumed that role in Dallas as the kind of the country bumpkin. But I'm also filthy rich and the most powerful guy in town. And then fast forward that many years. But there's another character like that recently, Eli Gemstone on the Righteous Gemstones. You know, he's down home, got all those country, that country charm about him. But yes, very wealthy and very powerful, a TV preacher. So to me it does mesh perfectly. Jerry fits that mold of that uber wealthy, uber powerful, but also down home country character.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great comparison. And going back to your point about Tech sram, Gordo, wasn't that because they had to get permission to show Texas Stadium in that open? I'm sure Texra went well. Yeah, sure, show that. And as a kid watching that show, I really wasn't that into the show outside of the open that had the flyover of Texas Stadium. I thought, wow, yeah, look at that. It's the Cowboys.

[D]

That was the best part of the open.

[B]

No doubt. So, yeah, it does go back to the 60s and what tech SRAM did with the radio network and some of his visions for TV contracts. That because he was a TV guy that happened to get into football and

[C]

the cheerleaders came about during that because of text.

[B]

Yeah. And you're right about that cheerleader show. It's. It's so impactful that the cheerleaders have always been popular. But now fans really do get there early to watch their performance that they have outside the stadium, which was not a part of they did at Texas Stadium. They know their names.

[C]

Yes. They're asking for their autographs. Yes. They're getting autograph request. And the show's really well done and I think it's just. I just love it. I mean, I think it's just fantastic.

[B]

Yeah. Brings in huge numbers. When we talked to Kelly Finglass last year, it was at one point the most popular show on Netflix. I don't know if it still is. I'm sure it. When it started the new season, I'm sure it was in the top five.

[C]

And then of course, before the Netflix series, we had the long running seed, Country Music Television. What's that channel? Cmt.

[B]

Yeah, cmt.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, had that. It was all ran for like 16 seasons there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So, yeah, they know how to market a team. They just don't know how to win Super Bowls anymore.

[B]

No, they don't. And I get the frustration and going back to how we started about. Sometimes we just take it for granted that we're watching the most powerful team in American sports and the most powerful owner is because they haven't had success on the field. And we hear Jerry try to explain a loss. And Bob and I talked about this on the Cowboys podcast last week. One thing that ought to stop at some point and Jerry can control this. Could he wait just another 10 minutes after games before his coaches? You know, wait till his coaches finish talking to the media and then talk so you don't have reporters running out of the. The press conference with the head coach, which happened to McCarthy a lot, and you talking about really undercutting your coach, Isn't that doing that? But at the same time, while I blame the press, until further notice, the mouthpiece. The mouthpiece of this team is Jerry.

[D]

So he's 83. Does he maintain control even if it gets to like Fidel Castro did in his later years where he was still in charge but you never saw him? Does he, does he maintain control until the second he dies? Or at 90 or 93 or 97, however long he makes it, does he give it over? Does he hold a press conference and say, turning this thing over to Stephen, I just can't do it anymore, but I'll be here to consult him. But he's the guy now. Or does he maintain the role as the guy until he drops dead?

[B]

You know, we asked that same question last year and I was unsure of it last year. I am convinced this year, until he takes his last breath, he is the owner and the GM of this team.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

He is incapable of being alive and not being right in the middle of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If he would turn it over to Steven, that would last about a week.

[B]

Yeah, it Would kill him. It really would. It would put him in the grave.

[D]

Even if he's kind of incapacitated at age 98, and he can't really get up here and do press conferences anymore.

[C]

I'm telling you, I think he's made it to 83 or 84 because of the Cowboys. That is his reason for getting him

[B]

out of bed in the morning.

[C]

It still motivates him.

[B]

Yeah, he can't wait to see what's making news that night. Or. Yeah. Get here and watch a practice and rub elbows with football players and football coaches. He absolutely loves it. And I can understand the. The frustration of Cowboy fans. And we asked this question every year, too, man, the NFL just keeps soaring. We gave you those numbers that they generate and just TV revenue. Where is this going to end for the NFL? How much higher this rocket, you know, send? I. I think that. I think this is the sweet spot. I don't think they have anywhere to go but down. But at the same time, I think that's going to take 50 years before any other sport in this country overtakes the National Football League.

[D]

Well, it's a good question because so much of it hinges on TV deals, media deals, and they can keep ascending if the networks keep paying, because they're always going to have to pay a little more, because I don't see the ratings going down. The ratings just keep going up and up. And when the ratings are going up, the networks will pay more for it. So I don't know where that tipping point is. I don't know if that's 20 years down the road, 40 years down the

[B]

road, when you have to start paying for everything, maybe to watch it, to stream it. Does it. Because I hear fans starting to complain about that, man, your ticket prices aren't going down. This revenue keeps going up. And now you're making me pay for games I want to watch.

[D]

And many people believe the tipping point happens when America gets tired of the violence, when more and more former players are dying of CTE and it. And America starts to feel. Fans start to feel some guilt while we're watching these guys kind of kill themselves. Watching these guys put themselves in wheelchairs 20 years from now and put themselves in the grave 30 years from now and commit suicide and all of that. That. The. As it gets faster and as we have more injuries and harder hits, a lot of people believe that'll be the tipping point. But this is America. We love violence. I'm not sure we ever get to that tipping point.

[B]

Yeah, I think you would have to have documented proof that whatever efforts they've made over the last decade. And we've always said you can't make it safe. You can make it safer, but that it's not helping, you know, that it's not helping the chance that of paralysis or the brain damage that, you know, you haven't dramatically decreased that risk.

[C]

Yeah. I think that people are going to watch no matter what. If you're interested in the game, you're interested in the game. And we understand that there's risk involved. And we, like, hey, they did stuff to mitigate it. Now let's just watch football.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's where we are now.

[C]

We watch car racing. We watch X Games. We watch everything that has tons of risk involved with it. And we're like, okay, but they've done some things to make it a little safer. But we know that it's going to be risky. And that's the part of the thrill of it, is that people are putting their bodies on the line out there.

[B]

So we mentioned all those networks and streaming platforms that are part of the NFL television rights. Last year at this time, we informed the world that the Cartoon Network was even going to have an interest in Jerry Jones. And one Gordon Keith was going to do the voice of Jerry on this animated show. I thought by now we would all be slapping our knee laughing at the fake Jerry, but we still haven't seen him. It's still on the Cartoon Network.

[C]

Yes. And I do not have an update as to the release date. Last time I asked, it had gotten pushed back a little bit further. It was supposed to come out. I believe it was March of this year.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Was the first date that we had heard. And then the last time I heard was probably in the fall.

[B]

That makes sense to me. Drop it in the fall and somehow do Cartoon Network has a deal with the NFL when they have those cartoon games? That's Cartoon Network, isn't it?

[C]

I believe so, yeah. So this. By the time this podcast.

[B]

Nickelodeon.

[C]

By the time this podcast drops, it may already be out. The. Keeping up with the Jones is the name of the animated series. It's going to be on Adult Swim.

[B]

Have you done any more work for that? Have you put any.

[C]

We've got the first season in the can.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

As they say, that's kind of an inside.

[B]

How many episodes is that? You know, how many?

[C]

10 episodes.

[E]

Dang.

[C]

10 episodes of keeping up with the Joneses. And it's about the family that lives next door or close by. The Jerry Jones family in Highland Park. It's about the wheels off family that lives there.

[D]

Did they pay you Crazy skrilla.

[C]

You know what? I didn't even check to be quiet.

[B]

Probably hasn't invoiced them at some point.

[C]

I have not invoiced them. That is correct.

[B]

Oh, no.

[E]

Correct.

[B]

Okay. Have you had any. We asked you this last year, and I don't think from last July until now, you've had any more interaction with Jerry.

[C]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

You got to change the actual Jerry Jones. Yeah, No, I asked him last year at training camp. I asked him about was he aware that he was about to be portrayed in animated form and then forgot about that. Yeah. And we had a very public showdown over that. No. And that was the last time I've spoken with him personally.

[D]

That was great. That's when he told the world that he loved the fake Jerry.

[C]

Yeah, he did.

[B]

Especially with the Give it to Jerry Jr.

[C]

Especially when you're giving away to Jerry Jr.

[B]

Well, it is a. It is a voice that a lot of people try to impersonate. And you have about. At least. You have at least three Jerry's to go to. Young Jerry, current Jerry, cartoon Jerry, deathbed Jerry before.

[C]

There's several off air Jerry's that we don't know.

[B]

We haven't really aired those yet.

[C]

But it's sexy talk Jerry.

[B]

Is it still. All of all the voices you do, is that your favorite voice to do?

[E]

It's.

[C]

It's been the most rewarding voice, for sure. I mean, it's been the one that. How much material has that given us?

[D]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Jerry Jones as the character is just so wild that he just keeps on giving. So, I mean, yeah, as far as entertainment, that's the one we've gotten the most entertainment out of.

[B]

Boys. We were leaving DFW airport to come out to California. My wife dropped me off. She had two of her grandkids with us, including my oldest grandson, Beckett, who's 7, and he does a fake Jerry because of Gordon. And it's hilarious. I wish he would have done it.

[C]

Why are his parents letting him listen to trash?

[B]

Well, worse, they let him listen to the ticket mouse, who's really offensive.

[C]

Yeah. Wasn't your grandson always imitating the line of got hit in the balls or something?

[B]

That one? And then one time when he fell while running through the house, he paused, coughed, and said, I see Mouse.

[D]

Jesus.

[B]

John Ritter.

[C]

Your grandson said the name John Ritter? Yes.

[B]

His son and his wife know who John Ritter is, but he does then. He was five.

[C]

That's great.

[B]

So. Yeah, well, I hope it does, but

[C]

yes, I got to talk to him before we got on the plane and I got to do a little ticket mouse voice for him and made their year.

[B]

They think the ticket mouse is.

[C]

He knows fake Jerry too, right?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

That's funny.

[B]

Yeah, I know. I don't know if it's great parenting on the part of my, my son and his wife to let him listen, but they know it, as so many people do, as the fake Jerry and man, I hope Cartoon Network drops that at the start of football season. That would be the time to do it.

[C]

Oh, it'd be great.

[B]

Keeping up with the Joneses.

[C]

I'm ready.

[B]

We'll be ready for the first season of it.

[E]

All right.

[B]

Well, there you go. Another training camp show from Oxnard, California. Thanks to Peter Welton for producing us episode 53. And we'll talk to you next week on the Musers, the podcast.

[E]

Yeah,

[A]

I see you.

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