#1 Neurologist Reveals the SHOCKING Root Cause of Parkinson’s Disease and How to Stop it | ft. Dr. Ray Dorsey

Summary

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The Neuro Experience Podcast - Episode #1

“Neurologist Reveals the SHOCKING Root Cause of Parkinson’s Disease and How to Stop it”

Featuring Dr. Ray Dorsey
Release Date: September 23, 2025
Host: Louisa Nicola & Pursuit Network

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the environmental and lifestyle factors that are driving the dramatic global rise in Parkinson's disease. Dr. Ray Dorsey, a leading neurologist, challenges the prevailing narrative that Parkinson’s is largely a disease of aging or genetics. Instead, he makes the compelling case that Parkinson’s is a "man-made" and largely preventable disease, propelled by toxic chemicals—including certain pesticides, dry-cleaning solvents, and air pollution—that have become pervasive in our modern environments.

Dr. Dorsey shares powerful stories, concrete data, and actionable prevention strategies, advocating for sweeping change at personal, community, and policy levels—emphasizing that a world without Parkinson’s is within our grasp if we act decisively.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parkinson's Disease: Not Inevitable, but Preventable

• Disease Rates Have Soared
  • “The rates of Parkinson's disease has doubled in the last 25 years.” (00:57)
  • In 1817, only six cases described; by 2017, six million people affected globally. (01:54)
• Environmental Roots, Not Just Genetics or Aging
  • “It can't be genetics… It can't be explained by aging alone… The reason why Parkinson's is one of the world's fastest growing brain diseases is because of chemicals in our environment.” (01:54)
  • Only 12.5% of Parkinson’s cases have a known genetic risk; the vast majority (87%) are driven by environmental exposure. (25:30)
• Main Culprits
  • Certain pesticides (like chlorpyrifos and paraquat)
  • Dry cleaning chemicals (TCE—trichloroethylene, PCE—perchloroethylene)
  • Air pollution, especially particulate matter
  • These toxins damage mitochondria—“the energy producing part of cells”—leading to dopaminergic neuron death characteristic of Parkinson’s. (12:50)

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2. From Golf Courses to Dry Cleaners: Where the Risks Lurk

• Golf Courses & Pesticides
  • “Living within one mile of a golf course in Rochester, Minnesota was associated with a 126% increased risk of Parkinson's disease.” (00:15, 29:17)
  • Pesticide use on courses can be up to 80 times that of farms. (30:02)
• Dry Cleaning Chemicals
  • TCE and PCE are used in dry cleaning and can contaminate apartments above cleaners and the wider environment.
  • “Studies in New York City show that simply apartment buildings above dry cleaners can have unsafe levels of the dry cleaning chemical.” (11:13)
  • Story: Dr. Dorsey himself checks the dry cleaner below the studio before recording. (10:50)
• Drinking Water
  • Millions still use unregulated private wells, which may be contaminated by industrial solvents or pesticides.
  • “Those wells are not regulated… So they could be drinking water that has pesticides in it or sometimes industrial sites.” (06:53)

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3. Symptom Progression, Early Warning Signs & Pathophysiology

• Parkinson’s Develops Over Decades
  • “The seeds of Parkinson's disease are planted early. And the seeds can be planted in childhood... even in utero.” (04:01)
  • Example: Camp Lejeune Marine base contamination led to dramatically increased risk years later. (04:01, 09:20)
• Early Symptoms
  • “Two common symptoms that start 20 years before the onset of Parkinson's disease is loss of smell and constipation.” (01:08, 20:32)
  • REM sleep behavior disorder may be another early indicator.
• How Toxins Work
  • “All damage the energy producing parts of cells. These things all have a common mechanism. They're mitochondrial toxicants.” (12:50)
  • Alpha synuclein protein misfolding is the pathological hallmark, spreading neuron to neuron as the disease progresses. (22:25)

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4. Diagnosis & Misconceptions

• Diagnosis
  • Largely clinical—requires two of four symptoms: tremor, slowness of movement, stiffness, walking/balance issues (23:58)
  • Imaging/biomarker advances (spinal fluid, skin biopsy) are emerging.
• Not a Disease of Better Diagnosis
  • “Parkinson's disease is growing like four or five times faster than multiple sclerosis, a disease for which we've unquestionably gotten better at diagnosing.” (03:00)

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5. What Can Individuals and Society Do?

Personal Actions

• Wash All Produce
  • Even organics; “First recommendation... wash all your produce, even your organic ones, with water and a vegetable wash.” (35:03)
• Use Water Filters
  • “I have a water filter ... for all the drinking water and reduce my exposure to chemicals.” (47:36)
  • Special attention for private well users—should test for pesticides/industrial chemicals. (49:30)
• Air Quality
  • Use air purifiers—PM2.5 is especially concerning. “They’re like a Trojan horse… carrying metals…” (42:01)
  • “You can just get a simple monitor ... Why aren't we measuring our particulate matter in our indoor air?” (44:02)
• Be Wary of Dry Cleaning Exposure
  • Ask cleaners about their practices—"Perc" is the dangerous chemical. (12:10)
• Exercise
  • “Exercise likely has enormous health benefits... associated with a 20% decreased risk of developing Parkinson's disease.” (50:59)
• Limit Use of Pesticides at Home
  • “Don't poison yourself… [Household] pesticides in the lab kill dopamine producing nerve cells.” (51:46)

Community and Policy Actions

• Ban Dangerous Chemicals
  • “Today, 100 Americans will die from Parkinson’s... It’s not in our genes ... It’s due to chemicals in our food, water and air.” (53:39)
  • Push for bans/cleanup of paraquat, TCE, PCE, chlorpyrifos.
• Better Notification
  • Citizens have the right to know about environmental risks (like living near a Superfund site or golf course). (54:51)
• Hope for a Parkinson’s-Free World
  • “We can live in a world without Parkinson's disease ... if we get rid of these certain pesticides, dry cleaning chemicals, tolerate a little bit more shrinkage, and clean up our air.” (00:00, 57:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If we get rid of these certain pesticides, if we get rid of dry cleaning chemicals, if we tolerate a little bit more shrinkage and we clean up our air, we can live in a world without Parkinson's disease."
  — Dr. Ray Dorsey (00:00, 57:45)
• "The rates of Parkinson's disease has doubled in the last 25 years. And you're saying this is a man made disease that is almost entirely preventable. What's going on?"
  — Podcast Co-host (00:57)
• "It's not in our genes, it's not solely aging. It's due to chemicals in our food, water and air."
  — Dr. Ray Dorsey (01:26)
• "Living within one mile of a golf course ... was associated with a 126% increased risk of Parkinson's disease."
  — Dr. Ray Dorsey (00:15, 29:17)
• "I can't possibly be going into a studio to record a discussion on Parkinson's above a dry cleaner."
  — Dr. Ray Dorsey (10:50)
• "Two common symptoms that start 20 years before the onset of Parkinson's disease is loss of smell and constipation."
  — Podcast Co-host (20:32)
• "Exercise ... was associated with a 20% decreased risk of developing Parkinson's disease about a decade later."
  — Dr. Ray Dorsey (50:59)
• "I used to think that the food we ate, the food I ate, the water I drank and the air I breathed was safe. … Now I no longer think that."
  — Dr. Ray Dorsey (47:13)
• On societal action:
  “If we take these actions that we outline to prevent the disease … we can live in a world without Parkinson's disease. And we see signals that this has happened in Netherlands and Germany.”
  — Dr. Ray Dorsey (57:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Thesis
  (00:00–01:31): Dr. Dorsey introduces the idea of Parkinson’s as preventable.
• Parkinson’s Historical Growth & Evidence
  (01:54–04:00): Statistics, environmental link.
• Camp Lejeune Example/Case Study
  (04:01–06:33): Environmental contamination's legacy.
• Private Well Water Risks
  (06:52–08:23): How unregulated wells expose millions.
• Dry Cleaning Chemicals in Urban Living
  (10:50–12:24): Risks from everyday city environments.
• Pathophysiology - Mitochondria, Alpha-Synuclein
  (12:50–15:00): Mechanistic insights into how toxins cause PD.
• Early Symptoms & Disease Course
  (20:32–23:24): Loss of smell, constipation, REM sleep disorder.
• Diagnosis & Genetics
  (23:54–26:55): Clinical signs, spinals tests, and genetics vs. environment.
• Pesticides, Food, and Golf Courses
  (27:11–31:05): Where pesticides lurk and big risk multipliers.
• Produce, Milk, Meat & Organic Recommendations
  (35:03–37:55): How to reduce exposure through diet.
• Sex Differences and Social Factors
  (38:00–39:17): Why more men (in US), but not just hormones.
• Advice for Those Diagnosed
  (39:39–41:29): Avoid exposure to slow disease progression.
• Air Pollution & Indoor Precautions
  (41:29–44:32): Filtering air, monitoring, and heavy metals.
• Water Purification and Well Testing
  (46:56–50:45): Best practices for water safety.
• Prevention Summary: The Parkinson’s 25
  (50:55–52:10): Practical prevention tips from the book.
• Policy Failures and the Path Forward
  (52:24–56:14): The need for regulation, notification, and cleanup.
• Vision for a Parkinson’s-Free World
  (57:44–58:52): Parallels to polio, hope for future generations.

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Flow & Tone

The episode is accessible and direct, with Dr. Dorsey providing authoritative, science-backed information delivered in a way that's both urgent and hopeful. Louisa and her co-host engage with relatable, sometimes humorous asides (“I can't possibly be going into a studio to record a discussion on Parkinson's above a dry cleaner”), but the tone stays focused, energetic, and empowering throughout.

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Final Takeaway

Parkinson’s disease is not simply a product of aging or unfortunate genes—it is, to a large extent, a result of unchecked chemical exposure in modern life. With awareness, individual precaution, and robust public policy, a future free from the shadow of Parkinson’s is achievable.

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For further reading and all 25 prevention recommendations, see Dr. Dorsey's book, The Parkinson's 25: 25 Ways to Reduce Your Risk.

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Transcript

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

If we get rid of these certain pesticides, if we get rid of dry cleaning chemicals, if we tolerate a little bit more shrinkage and we clean up our air, we can live in a world without Parkinson's disease.

[Louise Nicola]

My guest today is Dr. Ray Dorsey, a neurologist and one of the world's leading voices on Parkinson's disease.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Living within one mile of a golf course in Rochester, Minnesota was associated with a 126% increased risk of Parkinson's disease. The Environmental Working Group has found unsafe levels of residues of pesticides on organic produce.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

So what is safe?

[Louise Nicola]

In this episode you'll learn why Parkinson's is not a disease of chance, but largely man made, driven by toxins on the skins of our fruits, in our dry cleaning products and in everyday environments. If you live in Brooklyn, you have.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

A higher risk of getting Parkinson's disease.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

There are homes and residences that have unsafe levels of trichloroethylene in them.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

This is why I live in Manhattan.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

We'll talk about Manhattan in a second.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

The rates of Parkinson's disease has doubled in the last 25 years. And you're saying this is a man made disease that is almost entirely preventable. What's going on?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

What's going on is that we're not paying attention to our environment.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Two common symptoms that start 20 years before the onset of Parkinson's disease is loss of smell and constipation.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Constipation, sleep disturbance, then tremor.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Does the government play any role in this?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

If the government were doing well, Parkinson's disease wouldn't be one of the fastest growing brain diseases.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

That is wild to me.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

250Americans would not be diagnosed with Parkinson's disease if we were doing the right thing in society. Something is going on. It's not in our genes, it's not solely aging. It's due to chemicals in our food, water and air.

[Louise Nicola]

My name is Louise Nicola, host of the neuroexperience podcast and I'm honoured to share the interview with you.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

The rates of Parkinson's disease has doubled in the last 25 years. And you're saying this is a man made disease that is almost entirely preventable. So what's going on?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

What's going on is that we're not paying attention to our environment. When Dr. Parkinson, James Parkinson described the condition in 1817 in London, he described six people with the condition that he said had not been classified in the medical literature. So not in the medical textbooks of the time. In 2017, the Global Burden of Disease study estimated that 6 million people had the disease. So you go from something that affected six people in London in 1817 to something affecting six million. Why? It can't be genetics or genes still change that much in that short a period of time can't be explained by aging alone. In 1800s, there were old people. Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams. All these people lived in their 80s and 90s. The reason why Parkinson's is one of the world's fastest growing brain diseases is because of chemicals in our environment. Those chemicals include one, certain pesticides in our food, two, dry cleaning chemicals, if you can believe it, that can either be underneath us or in the water we drink, and three, outdoor air pollution.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

This is really scary. But let's just track back. How do you know that this is not because we're just getting better at diagnosing.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So in our first book, that's what everyone says. And so we graphed out multiple sclerosis, another neurological disorder for which we've definitely gotten better at diagnosing because we have MRIs where previously we didn't have MRIs. So we can detect a lot more multiple sclerosis than we could in the past when compared to Parkinson's disease. And indeed deaths due to multiple sclerosis have increased. But if you look at deaths in England from like 1850s to the present, the British are really good at tracking deaths. You can see that Parkinson's disease is growing like four or five times faster than multiple sclerosis, a disease for which we've unquestionably gotten better at diagnosing.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

I want to unpack what you said because you've scared me. In your book, you've got 25 ways to prevent Parkinson's. But I want to understand, in your book you've also stated that Parkinson's, just like Alzheimer's, is a disease of like 20 years in terms of progression. So some of us are walking around unknowingly, maybe building up Parkinson's disease asymptomatic until maybe 20, 30 years down the line and we get our first symptom. So what, how does it all start?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So I think the seeds of Parkinson's disease are planted early. And the seeds can be planted in childhood, they can be planted in young adulthood, and perhaps even in utero. So I'll give you an example. So this dry cleaning chemical, it contaminated the marine based Camp Lejeune in North Carolina from 1950. The Marine base had this toxic chemical in its water that was being used by the Camp Lejeune is like a college campus. It was being drunk by the Marines by service members, by teachers, by people working in hospitals. And the Marines knew about it for the latter years and did nothing about it. And that's why it became so tragic. Many people developed cancer at Camp Lejeune. A girl died from leukemia, and her father was a Marine drill instructor. And for the last 27 years, it's been bringing justice to these Marines. The chemicals also linked to Parkinson's disease. So my colleagues, Dr. Sam Goldman and Dr. Caroline Tanner at UCSF, looked at rates of Parkinson's disease among Marines who served at Camp Lejeune and compared them to Marines who served at a less contaminated base called Camp Pendleton, North Carolina. They found that Marines who served at Camp lejeune had a 70% increased risk of developing Parkinson's compared to those at Camp Pendleton. Now, if you're a Marine, a couple things. One, you're generally healthy.

[Louise Nicola]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Two, Marines are young. The average age at the time they were exposed was 20. They're 20 years old, and then 33 years later, they're being diagnosed with Parkinson's disease.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

But how was it contracted?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Like, so they were drinking for the Marines, they were drinking in the water.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

So in the water they were drinking at Camp Lejeune, it contained. It was contaminated with what is dry?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Chloroethylene, or tce. Tce and another dry cleaning chemical called perchloroethylene. It has one additional chlorine atom as well as other chemicals. So the Marines were drinking. So every time they were drinking, cooking, bathing, showering, washing, yeah, they were drinking this chemical. Now, the chemical can also evaporate. So if they are taking a hot shower, they were also probably breathing it in. If they're putting it on the stove, boiling an egg, they're breathing in tce. And it's not just the Marines who were exposed, but it was their spouses, their dependents, and then all the civilians working on the base and all. A million people were likely exposed to the chemical from 1953 to 1987.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

So in 1987, what happened?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

The Congress finally acted, and the Marines actually cleaned up the water. So the water should be cleaner and be cleaned by now. But from 53 to 87, it took 24 years.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

24 years for that to take an effect. Okay, so now we're not in the 1900s anymore. So what's happening now is this. Is this toxins still in, like, our water that we're drinking today?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

We have the great vantage of the Safe Drinking Water act of 1973, which regulates municipal or city water. And so it shouldn't be in municipal or city water.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

It shouldn't be.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

It shouldn't be. And one in eight Americans still get their water from wells, private wells, usually on their property. Like if you live in a rural area in New York state, even you may not be hooked up to city water. Those wells are not regulated by the Safe Drinking Water Act. So they're prone to contamination from farms, for example, from pesticides that might wash off from nearby farms. And so they could be drinking water that has pesticides in it or sometimes industrial sites. It can be. I don't know if you ever saw the movie A Civil Action with John Travolta. It's a movie about civil action. In 1970s in Woburn, Massachusetts, just north of Boston, the drinking water there was contaminated with this chemical. Children in the community were developing leukemia, a cancer of the blood. The moms were taking their children to Boston Children's Hospital and said, you know, it's not just Johnny who's got leukemia, but Susie and Mary up the street do too. Could it have something to do with their water? The doctors of course said no. The moms were of course right. And it was contaminated with water and so was contaminated with these chemicals that plants upstream of the water supply were dumping into the water supply in Woover, Massachusetts. And so that movie starring John Travolta, you know, talks about their plight. Toms River, New Jersey, you know, here we're in New York City, it's the same thing. Where there was contaminated children were getting cancer. Where in New York, Gowanus Canal and Brooklyn is contaminated with the same chemical, same chemical today.

[Louise Nicola]

So if you live in Brooklyn, you.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Have a higher risk of getting Parkinson's disease.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So if you live in Brooklyn, the facts are that there are homes and residences in Brooklyn that have unsafe levels of trichloroethylene in them. And that's been reported in the New York Times.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

This is why I live in Manhattan.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Well, so we'll talk about Manhattan in a second. But so it's there too these sites, over half of Superfund sites, so these are the most toxic sites in the United States, are contaminated with this chemical. In Silicon valley, on a 15 mile stretch, on a 7 mile stretch of the 101 freeway, there are 15 TCE contaminated Superfund sites in Silicon Valley.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

So this is just one way that we are developing Parkinson's disease. So let's just summarize. You've said that Parkinson's is a man made disease and it can happen as far along as in utero. It can start to, you can start to be exposed to these toxins.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yeah. So I get calls and emails. I spoke to a woman who was conceived at Camp Lejeune. She was conceived at Camp Lejeune. Not born conceived at Camp Lejeune. Her father, who was in the military, developed Parkinson's disease. And then she, decades later, developed Parkinson's disease. The NBA basketball player Brian Grant has Parkinson's disease. And I was reading his autobiography, I was reading his book, and toward the end, he mentions that when he was a three year old boy, he was living at Camp Lejeune because his father, a marine, was stationed there. So Brian Grant is three years old at Camp Lejeune, running around the marine base, as you would think, as you're a three year old boy. Look at all these planes and tanks. What a great little experience. His younger brother almost dies at Camp Lejeune, likely from exposure. His father later dies of esophageal cancer linked to the chemical, the chemicals known to cause cancer. And then 33 years later, while still. 30 years later, while still playing the NBA, he develops a tremor and can't jump off his left leg like he once could.

[Louise Nicola]

Foot drop.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

He couldn't jump off. And then two or three years after he finishes playing basketball, he's diagnosed with Parkinson's at age 36. 33 years later, just like, remember I told you that study was 33 years on average. Brian Grant just dialed back as 33 years later was when he was three.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

You've mentioned the water, but you've also mentioned dry cleaning products. I mean, we are. Which was news to me. You walked in today quite flustered because we are currently recording on top of a dry cleaning store, which I didn't know.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So I was walking. I'm new to New York City. I just moved here three months ago. And I'm trying to figure out the street addresses. And I thought it was 93.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Yeah, 93.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

But it was 96. And I look across and then find 96. And I look and I see dry cleaning. I'm like, there are studies done in New York City that show that simply apartment buildings above dry cleaners can have unsafe levels of the dry cleaning chemical.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Because of that chemical.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yes, Trichlorothylene and its cousin perchloroethylene, which is used in dry cleaning. And they're volatile, Right. They readily evaporate. So they evaporate and they got to go someplace, right?

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

And so, you know, you have cracks in your foundation, you have pipes, you have lines, electricities. And so they find it in unsafe levels And I think 24 or 27 apartments, we detail it in our book. So people are breathing it above. So I was like, I can't possibly be going into a studio to record a discussion on Parkinson's above a dry cleaner. So before I came up, I went into the dry cleaning store and I asked them if they did their dry cleaning on site. Unfortunately, they don't. So your exposure would be way, way, way, way less than if the.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

If you are above, you now live in Manhattan. We live not far from each other. So I think it's in everyone's best interest. If they do live near a dry clean store or above it, then they should go in and ask, do you do your cleaning on site? And if they don't, then you're in the safe zone.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yeah, you should be safe. And then you can ask them if they're a green dry cleaner, are they using this chemical called perchloroethylene in the industry? It's called perc. Perc. And just ask them, are you using perc for your agent? And if you are, I'd have my indoor air tested.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Okay, and then we're going to get to all of that because I have so many questions, because I optimize my home environment. Before we do, I have to ask, I want to go into the pathophysiology quite briefly because I want to understand how these toxic exposures are actually having an effect. I know that alpha synuclein plays a role in this disease. Just break it down for me. Is it coming in from an endothelial perspective? What's going on?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So the brain is 2% of your body weight, but it's 20% of your energy energy consumption. So it's a gas guzzling organ. It uses up all the glucose, it likes sugar and it needs energy to survive. And 95% of the, I mean 75% of energy demands comes from the nerve cells. So not surprisingly, these nerve cells are firing all the time and they have huge energy demands. And if you have energy demands, what produces energy in a cell? It's a little organelle called the mitochondria. The mitochondria is responsible for taking glucose and turning it into energy. And energy is necessary for cells to survive and carry out its function. It turns out that everything I've talked about, these environmental, toxic and certain pesticides, trichlorethylene and perchloroethylene or perc and air pollution, all damage the energy producing parts of cells. These things all have a common mechanisms. They're mitochondrial toxicants. They damage the Energy producing parts of cells. In Parkinson's disease, the part of the brain that is damaged the most is an area called the substantia nigra. And it's filled with nerve cells. And these nerve cells are massive. If you stretched them out, they would be four meters in length. So I'm a really tall guy, they're twice my height.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Wow.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Right? Imagine one nerve cell four meters in length and they have millions of connections. They connect to nerves, communicate by connections to others, and release of neurotransmitters or chemicals. So they have lots and lots of buddies that they're connecting to. And they're not insulated, they're not myelinated, so they have enormous energy demands. One of my colleagues who's a pathologist, said, Ray, imagine that they're a big garbage bag, the nerve cell, and they're filled with jelly beans. And those jelly beans are mitochondria. So they're very, very vulnerable or susceptible to toxins that affect the mitochondria. So at its root, we know, and we know even from the rare genetic forms of Parkinson's disease that you have mitochondrial impairment and then from the vast majority of people with Parkinson's disease don't carry a genetic risk factor, but are likely due to these environmental toxins that damage the mitochondria. So you can think about Parkinson's disease as a disorder where the mitochondria, the energy producing parts of cells, are damaged.

[Louise Nicola]

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[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Mitochondrial dysfunction seems to be at the root of almost every chronic disease. Every time I talk to somebody, whether it's inflammation, it all comes down to mitochondria. But you said something interesting. You said the substantia Niagara. Now what I know as a neurophysiologist is that's the area with a lot of the dopaminergic neurons. So is so Parkinsonism. Some of the symptoms of Parkinson's disease, it starts with kinetic changes like tremors. But if it's related to dopamine, is there also a, like a describe what happens there?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yeah. So dopamine isn't just these circuits that are affected aren't just responsible for movement. So the classic features of Parkinson's that Dr. Parkinson described in 1817 was a tremor, a slowed movement, astute posture and this tendency to walk faster and faster. We know that there are other symptoms of Parkinson's. Depression, anxiety. And you alluded to something earlier on that Parkinson's, if the seeds are planted early, then what are the earliest symptoms of the disease? And, and it turns out two of the earliest symptoms of the disease are constipation and loss of smell. And in neurology, what neurologists like to do is they like to figure out if there's a symptom, where does that map into the brain or the nervous system. So if I have numbness in my finger, then I probably have damage to one of my nerves in my arm or wrist that could be called numbness. So if constipation is one of the earliest Features of the disease. The then perhaps the disease might be beginning in the gut. And so in 2003, a really smart German pathologist who's still alive named Dr. Heiko Brock, said that Parkinson's, which we think of as a brain disease, has its origins not in the brain. Parkinson's, that Dr. James Parkinson described in 1817, is not primarily a disease of the brain. He says, when I look at the pathology under the microscope, I see that the pathology is either found in the first in the smell center of the brain or in the nerve called the vagus nerve, which goes all the way from the lower part of the brain stem all the way to the gut. And he thought that Parkinson's could be due to neuro invasion, he thought perhaps from an infectious particle like a virus that would enter in through the gut, Much like the polio virus, which begins in the gut and then goes back to ascends up the vagus nerve. In 2019, my colleague Dr. Per Borgheimer and Denmark said there are two forms of Parkinson's disease. A body first form of Parkinson's disease and a brain first form. He says in a body first form, the first place you find the pathology of the disease is either in the gut or in that vagus nerve. Or if it's a brain first form of disease, you first find it in the smell center of the olfactory bulb. And I was like, well, that's pretty interesting. I said, I emailed them, I said, well, how does this tie in with chemicals? Toxins that we ingest, think like contaminated well water could predispose to a body first form of Parkinson's disease versus chemicals we inhale, like from dry cleaning chemicals could predispose to a brain first form of it. So it turns out it could be this was a hypothesis is that toxins that are ingested lead to a body first form of disease. Where disease first begins in the gut. One of the earliest features of the disease would be constipation, which we know precedes the classic tremor by years, if not decades. Or perhaps with a brain or nose first form of the disease beginning with loss of smell, preceding the classic tremor and the like by years, if not decades.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Wow. So two common symptoms that start 20 years before the onset of Parkinson's disease is loss of smell and constipation and.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Give us clues to where the disease might be beginning.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

I've got one for you. I spent time in a sleep study, a psg, just part of my my degree. And I learned about REM behavior disorder. So the that you're sleeping at night and maybe your husband or your wife. I'm not demonizing mental women. Gets up and starts violently attacking you. But it's in their sleep. They're not meaning to do it. They wake up and you're like, you, you hit me last night in your sleep.

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You punched me.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

You abused me. And they say, I had no idea. I didn't mean to do that.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yes. So REM sleep behavior disorders due to acting out your dream. So normally when we're dreaming, we're paralyzed. That's during REM sleep. And that paralysis is lost during REM sleep behavior disorder. So when you're getting chased by the lion, you strike and act out. And sometimes you strike your bed partner. Well, I told you that the body first form could begin in the gut and ascend up the vagus nerve, which goes all the way from the gut to lower part of the brainstem. Well, then the pathology then spreads from the vagus nerve up to the other parts of the brain stem that are responsible for sleep. And so REM sleep behavior disorder could follow from constipation. With this body first form of disease, you get REM sleep behavior disorder, and then you get, I mean, you get constipation, then you get REM sleep behavior disorder. And we know that individuals who have REM sleep behavior disorder are at higher risk for developing other neurodegenerative conditions, including Parkinson's disease. And then as it spreads up from the pons to the part of the brain, substantia nigra, that's affected with that causes the tremor. You see the pathology spread. And as the pathology spreads, you get new and different symptoms emerge. Constipation, sleep disturbance, then tremor.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

What's the actual pathological mechanism when it starts to occur? So, for example, in Alzheimer's, it's amyloid beta and tau protein buildup. What's happening with pd?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So in Alzheimer's disease, you have this misfolded protein called alpha, I mean, beta, amyloid and Parkinson's. The misfolded protein is alpha synuclein. So how the toxins of these toxicants we know can lead to misfolding of alpha synuclein. And we know that alpha misfolded. So proteins are folded. So genes encode, give instructions for the production of proteins. And think of the proteins as. It's a big, long chain. And if you have a really long chain, you know, you're going, it wouldn't fit in a room, it wouldn't fit in a cell. So you got to fold it over and you got to fold it over, and you got to keep folding it over. And so it's all nicely packed. Sometimes you get kinks in it. And just like, you know, a fitted sheet is really hard to fold. So if you get misfolding, that misfolding is damaging to nerve cells. And that misfolded protein can spread from one nerve cell to another.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Okay?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So it can spread from the vagus nerve to nerves that are responsible for sleep, and then from those nerves, it can then spread to the Samsung Nigra for nerves that are responsible for movement. And from there, it can spread to the outer parts of the brain, the hemispheres, and cause problems with thinking, for example. So this misfolded protein is transmissible. It can spread from one nerve cell to another. And as that pathology spreads, new symptoms emerge and the disease progresses.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

How is it diagnosed clinically? Is it with an MRI in pet?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So today, the vast majority of people with Parkinson's are diagnosed based on symptoms. And so you need to have two of the following four symptoms. Tremor, usually at rest, usually in one limb more than the other, often in the hands. Second symptom, which is nearly universal, is slowness and movement. So it just takes longer to do things. It takes longer to button your shirts. It takes longer to button your things. It takes longer to put on makeup, takes longer to bathe. The third is stiffness or rigidity, usually felt in the arms, for example. And fourth is difficulties with walking and balance. If you have two of those four symptoms you have, we say you have Parkinsonism, and it's an umbrella term. And the most common cause of that is Parkinson's disease. About 60 to 70% are due to that. There are other reasons you can have Parkinsonism, side effects of antipsychotic medications, other worse disorders like dementia with Lewy Bodies and psp. But that's how you make the diagnosis today. There's rapidly. There are sophisticated imaging tests that can help with the diagnosis. There are rapidly developing biological markers. There's a marker in the spinal fluid. My colleagues, Dr. Andrew Sidoroff, his colleagues at working with the Michael J. Fox foundation, found a marker in the spinal fluid that can help make the diagnosis. And some of my colleagues have developed a skin biopsy test that can find the misfolded protein in the skin of people with Parkinson's disease.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

So it's no longer useful to say, oh, my father had Parkinson's, so I'm going to go and get tested to see if I have Parkinson's, because you're telling me that genetics, epigenetics, plays a larger role than genetics.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yeah. So Genetics. So there are rare genetic causes of Parkinson's disease. A study led by the Parkinson's foundation called Peace Degeneration assessed thousands of people with Parkinson's disease. And they did a really nice thing. They offered them free genetic counseling and free genetic testing. And they did this for over 8,000 individuals. But the results from the first 8,000 individuals found that 12.5% of people with Parkinson's disease carried a genetic cause or genetic risk factor for the disease. Said another way, 87% of Americans who have Parkinson's disease have no known genetic cause or risk factor. Disease. 87% of Americans with Parkinson's disease have no known genetic cause or risk factor for the disease, suggesting that the environment is a predominant contributor to the disease. For the other 12.5%, it turns out that those individuals might be especially susceptible to environmental toxins. For example, the most common genetic risk factor for Parkinson's disease is a mutation in a gene called GBA. And it turns out that that's about 8% of people in that study. Those individuals. Study done by Dr. Ethan Brown and Caroline Tanner at UC San Francisco found that those individuals might have a heightened risk for Parkinson's disease when they're exposed to pesticides. So people who carry these genetic mutations might be especially susceptible to the toxic effects of these environmental chemicals.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Well, that's a really good segue into pesticides because you've mentioned pesticides in the foods that we eat, the crops as well, especially fruit. So let's talk about some of the pesticides. But so far we'll summarize, we've covered. Tce, which is found in. It can be found in the water.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

It can be found in the water.

[Louise Nicola]

And it can be found in the.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Obviously the air because of that. And it can be found in dry cleaning products. Okay, sorry. Can TCE be in like tide, like what I wash my clothes with?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So TCE was found in everything. In the 1970s, two pounds per American were produced. You're too young to remember typewriter correction fluid, but typewriter Correction fluid had TCE. Decaffeinated coffee had TCE in it until the FDA banned its use in 1977. TCE was used as an anesthetic agent. Remember I told you it's volatile. It evaporates in the air. It was used as an anesthetic agent for pregnant women. Women could self administer the TC to them with a canister until they passed out. They released the canister and it goes down. Until the FDA banned its use in 1977, it was 10 million Americans are estimated to have worked with the compound. If you worked in degreasing, if you worked in printing, if you worked in painting, if you worked as a mechanic, if you worked in cleaning off silicon wafers, if you were an embalmer, someone was asking me in photography chemicals, if you worked in with refrigerants, you were likely you were possibly exposed to TCE. And in England, it's estimated one in 12 workers worked with it.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

But it's banned now.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

It was just banned in 2024. That ban was frozen and my understanding is that freeze is going to be lifted so that over the next 10 years that TCE and perchloroethylene will be phased out. TCE is banned in New York State already. California is getting rid of perchloroethylene and dry cleaning. But that doesn't. So it's all great and future generations cheered. Future generations cheered they were spared cancer. TC has been causing cancer for 100 years. TC has been causing cancer for one hundred years. It is now going to be banned, knocked on wood. But there are thousands of contaminated sites, as we mentioned earlier, you know, Gowanus Canal being one of them here in New York City that are contaminated with it. So the law does nothing to address the contaminated sites.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

So let's move on now to pesticides.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Not all pesticides are linked to Parkinson's disease. Certain ones are the ones that are often again damaged the, the energy producing parts of cells, the mitochondria. I'll highlight two. One is a pesticide called chlorpyrifos. At one point, over half of apples in the United States had residues of chlorpyrifos on them. It was also widely used on utility poles. It was widely used on golf courses. My colleague, Dr. Brittany Krasinowski, Barrow Neurological Institute, and her colleagues at Mayo clinic, including Dr. Rodolfo Savica, showed that living within one mile of a golf course in Rochester, Minnesota was associated with a 126% increased risk of Parkinson's disease.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Yeah, that headline went rampant on social media.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Living simply living, not working, simply living near. Living near a golf course where pesticide use can be up to 80 times as much as it is on farms per acre as associated with 126% increased.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Risk of death because you're breathing in the chemicals.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So Dr. Krasnowski, she focused a lot in the paper on the water supply and was concerned about the water supply. I personally get probably even more concerned about breathing it in. The other major pesticides called paraquat, which is used to kill weeds on corn, cotton, soybeans and vineyards. And my colleagues Dr. Kimberly Paul and Beatovritz at UCLA showed that simply living near where paraquat is sprayed is associated with a doubling of the risk of Parkinson's disease. So you have two studies by two different investigators, one looking at pesticide use for agricultural purposes, one looking at pesticide use for recreational purposes, both finding that the risk of Parkinson's disease is doubled for simply for people who live near those sites.

[Louise Nicola]

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[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

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[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Mean for the average consumer who is trying to find a way to be healthy and eat fresh fruit? Because you just said on apples, I just saw this, this reel on Instagram where he went, I don't know who it was. This individual went to the supermarket. He said, if you're holding an apple and, and the apple has this number on the label and he had a really sharp pocket knife with him. He said that means it's got wax all over. And he started like peeling the wax off of the apple.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yeah. So the. See the FDA or the Department of agriculture when they assess the pesticide residues on an apple, for example, they do so after that apple's been held under cold water for 15 to 20 seconds.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Wow.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So ask yourself, have you ever held an apple on, washed a piece of fruit for 15 to 20 seconds? So that should concern us in terms of what we're consuming as consumers. So the environmental working group has found unsafe levels of pesticides, residues of pesticides on organic produce.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

So what is safe?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Our first recommendation in the book the Parkinson's 2525 Ways to Reduce your risk is to wash all your produce, even your organic ones, with water. And then I use a vegetable wash, which is essentially soap. I get a bottle from a grocery store that's six. No, it's $4.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Actually, Trader Joe's has vegetable spray wash spray.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yeah, that's the one I use. I'm not endorsing any products here, but that's what I use. And so I have a glass bowl, I take my apples and I put them in the, in the, in the glass bowl, I fill it with water, I put the wash in there and I give them a bath and then I rinse them and then I Put them in the bathroom, you know, the basket, so I can eat them when I want to eat them. So that's the first recommendation, is to wash all your fruits and vegetables, including your organic ones. Buy organic if you can, and then also buy organic dairy products and meat, because cows, for example, these pesticides are magnified, concentrated, as they make it up the food supply. So I'll give you an example. So everyone knows that DDT has been banned because Rachel Carson wrote silent spring in 1962, I believe in the 1970s, the Hawaii Pineapple Growers association wanted to use a cousin of DDT called heptachlor to protect their pineapple crop, and they got an exemption to use it. So they sprayed their pineapples with heptachlor, and the pineapple survived whatever plague was facing the pineapples. And then they fed the green leafy parts of the pineapples, called the chopped the top part, and they fed it to cows. Well, the residue of heptachlor was on that green leafy part. And that pesticide dissolves in fat. It's fat loving. So what did the cows do with the pesticide? They put it into their milk, and then the milk was then made its way onto the shelves of Hawaii, where it led to a recall of the milk in Hawaii because it had unsafe residues of heptachlor in it. My colleague, Dr. Caroline Tanner, who's done amazing research, and her colleague Dr. Webster Ross and others found that high milk consumers in Hawaii had higher rates of Parkinson's disease. And then they looked at the brains after these individuals died. And the individuals who were high milk consumers in Hawaii had fewer of those nerve cells that produced dopamine in their brains. And then they found the residue of the heptachlor in the brains of the individuals who were high milk consumers who had Parkinson's disease. In Hawaii, they found the smoking gun, they found the heptachlor in the brain. So I worry a lot about these pesticides getting concentrated as they move up the food chain, because you're not just eating the chicken, you're not just eating the fish, you're not just eating the cow, you're eating what they ate. And so I think it's really important to consider organic produce and dairy product. I mean, organic meats and dairy products.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Unlike Alzheimer's disease, it doesn't seem like this affects a specific gender.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

In the United States and most parts of the world, Parkinson's disease is actually more common in men than women. So the opposite of Alzheimer's disease more common in men. Than women, about 60% men, 40% women. But that's not universal. It turns out that in Japan and Taiwan, the rates of Parkinson's disease are about the same between women. Men, in some studies, I think, even found more women. So I looked at those countries, and I said, well, who did most of the farming in those countries? And in those countries, women did most of the farming. So I think that the sex differences has less to do with biology. Less, you know, that you're producing estrogen, I'm producing testosterone. It has more to do with our sociology. Who's doing the farming? In the United States, 75% of farmers are men. Who's doing the pesticide applicators? In the United States, 97% of pesticide applicators are men. Who's working the manufacturing of these chemicals? So I think the differences in Parkinson's disease could be in part biology, in animal models. There's some suggestion that female laboratory animals are more resistant to the effects of these toxins than men than male ones. But I think most of the difference is sociology in terms of who's working with these chemicals and who's more likely to be exposed.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Well, thankfully, there's no hormonal interplay there, because that's what really drives me insane.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Unlikely. If anything. If anything, it's likely that estrogen is probably protective.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Protective. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the same. Yeah. Let's just say somebody has been diagnosed Depending on where they are in their journey. Obviously, there's so many different diagnostic routes that they can go down. Carbidopa, Levodopa. They're gonna get on some medication. There's no reversal to this disease.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

No known reversal for the disease.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

No cure.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

No cure. If a smoker gets diagnosed with lung cancer, what's the first thing the doctor's gonna tell the person?

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Stop smoking.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Smart smoking. So if a farmer gets diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, what should the doctor tell him to do?

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Here's your Levodopa.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

No, you should stop getting exposed to pesticides.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Will the neurologist actually say that to them? No.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

No. And so I think the reason why some part of the reason why some individuals might have a slower progressive course and some individuals might have a faster progressive course is some people are still getting exposed to the toxins that.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

And masking it with the pharmaceuticals or.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

In masking, but they're still getting exposed to it. They're still drinking the well water, they're still working as a farmer, getting sprayed with certain pesticides like paraquat that are linked to the disease, that are associated with 150% increased risk of disease. I saw a patient today, he's a mechanic. And so I told you that trichloroethylene was used in degreasing. So when he was younger, he was likely possibly exposed to trichloroethylene as a mechanic. And then he develops Parkinson's later. He loves being a mechanic. He now no longer uses trichloroethylene as degreasing agent. But there are some people who are. I spoke to someone the other day, has Parkinson's disease, and he still had a trichloroethylene containing product in his shed. So I think the first thing if someone gets diagnosed with the chemical is to stop getting exposed to these toxins. And the Parkinson's 25 is 25 recommendations to reduce your risk of ever getting it. But these same recommendations may be able to slow the rate of progression of the disease. And we haven't talked about air pollution, but there's a study, for example, that people who already have Parkinson's who are exposed to air pollution are more likely to be hospitalized for their Parkinson's disease. So we have some clues that exposure to these toxins might worsen the progression of the disease. So if you have Parkinson's disease, look at our Parkinson's 25. There are 25 things you can do to possibly slow the rate of progression of the disease.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

I'm interested in toxic exposure in the air. So I currently have two air purifiers in my. I've got a. I've got a small New York City apartment. Do I need two? Probably not. I've got one in my bedroom and I've got one outside in the living room. That takes care of everything. And they're big, large ones. Right.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

The same thing. I have one in my bedroom, one in my living room.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Yeah. Even though it says it covers like the full square meters, so I've still got two. And it picks up on PM2. PM10. Is it PM2.5. Sorry, PM10. Is that what you're talking about as well?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yeah. So when. If you've been to Los Angeles, you've seen smog.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

And so when you see smog, what are you seeing? You seeing little pieces of dirt and soot that are suspended in the air?

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

The fancy scientific word for that is particulate matter. And this particulate measure is measured. And so PM2.5 is particulate matter. That's 2.5 microns in diameter. What's 2.5 microns? About 1/30 the width of my hair. So they're really, really tiny. Large ones we cough out and sneeze out. Small ones are so small that they can penetrate the nerve that's responsible for smell. They're so small that they go in through the nerve. And what's hitchhiking on that particulate matter? Well, hitchhiking on them, they're like a trojan horse. So the trojan horse is not carrying in troops into Greece. The trojan horses, they're carrying metals. They're carrying lead from leaded gasoline, iron from brakes, and platinum from catalytic converters. So people with Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease have higher levels of heavy metals in their brain. And no one's been able to figure out exactly why. The brain is normally protected by something called the blood brain barrier, which says you don't get to come in the front door of the brain is through our nose. And I think particulate matter could be bypassing the blood brain barrier and carrying in these toxic metals, which could lead to misfolding of alpha synuclein and leading the pathology of both Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. Beginning in the smell center. One of the earliest features of both diseases is loss of smell. And from there, it can spread to different parts. If it goes into the parts of the brain that are responsible for memory, you can get Alzheimer's disease. If it goes back to the parts of the brain, the substantia nigra, that's responsible for movement, you get Parkinson's disease.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

But if you've got these, like I mentioned to you, the air purifiers is purifying that out.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

It's decreases. Filtering it out or filtering it out, you would hope. And it does. And there have been studies that demonstrate it. And you can just get a simple monitor. You know, we measure our temperature in our indoor air. I mean, to me, why aren't we measuring our particulate matter in our indoor air?

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Can we do that? Yeah, I have a carbon dioxide meter.

[Louise Nicola]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

But it's. I don't think it's measuring what you're measuring. No.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

There are companies. I'm not endorsing any company or any product, but there are things that can measure particulate matter in your home. Because I moved from Rochester, New York, which has generally clean air, to New York city, which welcome does not. So I was very concerned about it. And so I measured the particulate matter in my indoor air at home and at work. And fortunately, it was good. But I still have an air purifier.

[Louise Nicola]

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[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Now that brings me to water purification. So obviously we've got the water that we drink. Hopefully no one's really drinking from the taps. I'm sure you aren't. We've got the water that we use obviously for the sink and then we've got the shower and the bathroom. So should we be purifying that as well.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

I used to think that the food we ate, the food I ate, the water I drank and the air I breathed was safe. I used to, my wife said when we had young kids, yeah, I know that we should get, get organic produce. And I poo pooed the idea when I was in medical school. Now I no longer think that. And so I, we have a water filter on. When I was in Rochester, I just got a water filter from the grocery store.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Like the Brita? Yeah, yeah, like that.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

And you can put it on your faucet. And I use that for all the drinking water and reduce my exposure to chemicals. Because it turns out in general, as we learn more, we find that for example, with lead, that the lead levels that we thought were safe in the past aren't safe. And that for some chemicals, my colleague Dr. Bruce Lamphere argues is that there may be no safe level for some of these chemicals. Not all chemicals, but for some chemicals there may be no safe level at all. So I use a water filter here in New York at home and I recommend people do that as well. That's one of my.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

For your drinking water.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

For your drinking water.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

But what about the, like the shower?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Well, hopefully you're not, you're not, you're not drinking the water.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

But I mean like what if you're washing your hair and it's going on your skin? You know I'm getting.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

No, I know. And I used to like poo poo this all and then I used to like poop. Like one person asked me, what about dry cleaning your clothes? If you're not above a dry cleaner, you're not working in the dry cleaner but you're just wearing dry clean clothes. That couldn't be it. And then one person emails me and says every day for a year. My husband had a blue collar job and he had to wear a dry cleaned uniform every day for a year for 35 years. And then he develops Parkinson's disease. Another one woman told me that she was fastidious and had all her clothes dry cleaned and she had the bag still on them and she had her closet just filled with dry clean clothes. Her boyfriend says, when I went in there, it smelled the sweet smell of a dry cleaner. And then she develops Parkinson's disease. So I don't know. I can't prove that this is what it is. These are just the stories I've heard, the evidence. You know, I give you dry cleaners.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Must be coming after you with accidents.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Listen, there are safer alternatives for dry cleaning and we're doing this also. Our clothes don't shrink.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

The reason we dry clean clothes is so our clothes don't shrink.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

I know, right?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So if you do the cost benefit analysis, you know, do you want your.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Clothes to shrink or do you want.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Or do you want Parkinson's or cancer? As much as I care about Parkinson's, Trichloroethylene, known to cause cancer, Perchlorothalene likely causes cancer. So that's what I do for water. The other people we cannot forget are people who have a well water. If you have a well water, 1 in 8Americans, 40 million Americans, up to 40 million Americans get their water from a well. Those wells are not regulated by the Safe Drinking water Act. You 100% should have a water filter system on it. Or my colleague at Atria Health and Research Institute, Dr. Robert Kauchko, was telling me that reverse osmosis is likely a better solution. Second thing you should do after you put a water filter on, address that today is you should have your water tested. So wells are usually only tested often when people buy or sell their home, for example. And then it's only usually tested for bacteria to make sure you don't go diarrhea. But rarely is it tested for pesticides or these industrial chemicals. So if you have a water, if you have a well, get it tested, specifically asked to be tested for pesticides, especially if you live in rural areas, areas or if you live near industrial areas or areas that used to be industrial, have it tested for trichloroethylene and perchloroethylene.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

But even if you're not living in a well, like for me, for example, I drinking from a well, I can get mine tested too. I can test my water.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Everyone can test your water. And I think even the New York Times has a database or New York Times or Environmental Working Group have a database that you can see the results of water from where you live.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

What's another, I know you've got 25 ways. What's one that we haven't discussed yet.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So it's organized around what we can do for your food. So that's chapter one of the book is how chemicals in our food are contributing. Chapter two is water. Chapter three is our indoor air. We mentioned a little bit about that living near dry cleaners. And four is outdoor air. I don't want to give you an easy one. Easy one is exercise. That we know that exercise likely has enormous health benefits for people with Parkinson's disease. We also know that exercise can reduce is associated with A decreased risk developing Parkinson's disease They'd studied. I think it was men, but maybe it was men and women in their 40s and 50s and found that individuals who did vigorous exercise equivalent to about three, three and a half hours of running or biking or swimming was associated with a 20% decreased risk of developing Parkinson's disease about a decade later. Oh, I'll give you one. Don't poison yourself.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Okay.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

People are using pesticides on their lawns. They're in flea collars, they are in ant sprays. They are in any number of household products. And some of the pesticides that are in these household products in the lab kill dopamine producing nerve cells and in epidemiological studies are associated with increased risk of Parkinson's disease.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Do you outline the pesticides in your book?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Yes, I'm just looking at the research and the data. Pesticide chemical companies can come up with safer alternatives and, you know, in some.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Cases, why don't they?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

So that's the good question you should ask them.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Does the government play any role in this or take any responsibility?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

I would say this. If the government were doing well, Parkinson's disease wouldn't be the fastest growing, one of the fastest growing brain diseases in the world. 250Americans would not be diagnosed with Parkinson's disease if we were doing the right thing as a society. Parkinson's disease is now the 14th leading cause of death. Today, 100Americans will die from Parkinson's death. I got an email from one of my good colleagues saying his stepfather just got diagnosed with Parkinson's. It's like I can even buzz right now. I'm sure someone's asking me about Parkinson's disease now. Anyone over 50 has a friend or family member with Parkinson disease. It was not always this way. In 1990, it was estimated 2.6 million people had Parkinson's worldwide. Today, the estimate from the Same group is 11.8 million. A fourfold increase in the number of people with Parkinson's disease in the span of 35 years. 30 years. The number of older people hasn't quadrupled in 40 years. The world population hasn't quadrupled in 30 years. Something is going on. It's not in our genes. It's not solely aging. It's due to chemicals in our food, water and air. You know, there's a movement in the United States that highlights that chemicals in our environment are contributing to chronic diseases.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

What's the movement?

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

I mean, like the Maha movement, for example, is identifying that chemicals in our environment are contributing to Chronic diseases. I think that principle is largely correct. Unfortunately, sometimes it's focused on the wrong chemicals and the wrong diseases. But if you want a prototype for a chronic disease that affects over a million Americans, that costs American Society $50 billion, that costs Medicare $25 billion, Parkinson's disease is your poster child for it. And we can take actions in our society. Government can do today is ban Paraquat, which over 50 countries, including China, have banned. We can implement make sure that the bans on TCE and PCE are implemented. The makers of chlorpyrifos sued the federal government when the EPA banned chlorpyrifos in 2021. We should make sure that that ban is implemented and we should give give people the right to know if they live near a site where these pesticides are being used. If you live near a golf course, shouldn't you have the right to know if pesticides that are linked to Parkinson's or linked to cancer are being sprayed near so you can protect your children yourselves and your family, oh, 100%. If you live near Gowanus Canal, shouldn't you get a notice every year to let you know if you're what the status of the cleanup is?

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

That is wild to me.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

It's not done. Not if you live near a Superfund site. Shouldn't you get a notice every year letting you know about the extent of contamination, the testing being done? There are monitoring wells throughout New York City. They're just little. If you see a little triangle sign on the streets, you can see them. In Manhattan, they're monitoring wells. If you live near those monitoring wells, shouldn't you be notified of what those results are every year? Shouldn't there be fences around Superfund sites saying that they're hazardous? Shouldn't there be danger signs? I lived in Rochester, New York, and 5, 10 minutes from my home in suburban Rochester, where all the doctors live, all the doctors and attorneys. There were four Superfund sites. No notice at all on any of them. No fence, no danger sign, nothing. There are plumes. The chemical gets into the groundwater and forms these underground plumes. There are homes in Rochester, New York that are sitting above contaminated sites. And there are unsafe levels of the chemicals in indoor airs in Rochester. There are unsafe levels in Newport Beach, California, where I went to high school. There are homes in Newport Beach, California today that have unsafe levels of trichloroethylene or perchloroethylene in their indoor air. And some people don't even know.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

I believe that you are having the biggest impact on this disease. I mean, I'm sure you want to live in a world where Parkinson's disease does not exist.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

And so we outline in our book, we give you the 25 actions you can do as individuals. And then we outline three goals in 2013 for AIDS. UNAIDS set forth three goals. 90, 90, 90. For 2020, 90% of people with HIV will be diagnosed with the condition. 90% of those people will be on appropriate treatment, and 90% of them will have the virus suppressed. And the incidence of HIV today is now at its lowest level since 1990. I mean, HIV was thought to be rampant. And it could, with continued funding and continued support and continued focus on prevention, it could disappear as a major clinical entity in our lifetime. And because of people here in New York City. Kudos and shout out to ACT up. Silence equals death. They changed the course of HIV not just for themselves, but for you and for me. We may not have HIV because of the actions that people like to act up. So thank you to act up. In our book, we outline not 90, 90, 90, but 0, 10, 1, 00. I'll just tell you about zero. If we take these actions that we outline to prevent the disease as individuals in our community. Stop using dangerous pesticides on golf courses. Stop spraying kids schools. Stop spraying kids schools with playgrounds with pesticides. And we take action. Society ban paraquat by 2035 that the incidence of Parkinson's number of new cases adjusted for age will be 0%. That the rise will end by 2035 by 0% increase. That means by 2036 we start talking about the fall of Parkinson's disease.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Oh my gosh.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

I'm a neurologist. I can't think of a greater gift to give future generations in the world without this disease. And this has happened before. We live today in a world largely free of polio, a world that our grandparents had polio, right? And we focused on preventing the disease. We focused on why, what caused the disease. We found out it was a virus. We were able to identify which subtypes of it. We developed a vaccine for it, and we got rid of polio. Except for a few countries in Afghanistan, Pakistan, polio is large. We live largely in a world free of polio. We can do the exact same thing with Parkinson's disease. If we get rid of these certain pesticides, if we get rid of dry cleaning chemicals, if we tolerate a little bit more shrinkage, and I'm six foot five, I can tolerate my clothes shrinking a little bit, and we clean up our air. We can live in a world without Parkinson's disease. And we see signals that this has happened in Netherlands and in Germany. The incidence of Parkinson's disease appears to be falling, adjusted for age. And they had they banned trichloroethylene. The levels of pesticides in people's fat has dropped between 75 and 90%. And air quality in those countries is 50 to 90% better than it used to be.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Dr. Ray Dorsey, the Parkinson's A New Path to Prevention and Treatment. Thank you so much for telling us this. I cannot wait to go and attack.

[Louise Nicola]

Actually all of the dry cleaners up.

[Podcast Co-host / Interviewer]

Park Avenue when we finish from this. Thank you so much for being part of the Euro Experience podcast.

[Dr. Ray Dorsey]

Thank you very much for having me.