← The Neuro Experience
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- [00:00]
A
A study published, an animal study published in March of 2022 looked at the effect of carboxymethyl cellulose CMC, which is a thickener in foods on the microbiome of rats and found that the microbiome and metabolome were impacted by the formation of very few if no short chain fatty acids. So when they added this into the the diet, there was not the formation of what we consider the positive substance breakdown substances of food that we want in our gut, microbiome being one of them being short chain fatty acids. So you know, there are some steady linkages. But we also understand that I think we want to take the conversation beyond the waistline and number on the scale because I think most Americans think well, if I'm eating these foods, eating fast foods, I'm going to gain weight. It's much more than that. Yes, you're going to affect your weight, you can affect your metabolism, but you actually also starting to impact your mental health.
- [01:02]
B
Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. I'm Louise Nicola. I'm a neurophysiologist and human performance coach. I'm the founder of Neuro athletics where our mission is to democratize brain health education so you can perform better, think faster and live longer. Joining me today on the show is Dr. Uma Naidu. Dr. Naidu is pretty special. She's a triple threat. She's a Harvard trained psychiatrist and the founder and director of nutritional and lifestyle psychiatry at Massgen Hospital in Boston. She's also also a trained chef and nutritionist and best selling author with a book that will be released on 26th December this year titled calm your mind. Today we talk all things nutritional psychiatry and how to and how nutrition plays a role in disorders such as anxiety, depression and mood. I hope you enjoy this one. And guess what? Blueberries are indeed good for you. Let's get into the show. Dr. Uma, welcome to the Neuro experience. I'm just so excited to have you here.
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A
Thank you so much, Luisa. I'm so excited to talk with you.
- [02:07]
B
Yeah, well, why don't we just let everyone know who you are and what you do because I love you and I know the audience is going to love you as well.
- [02:16]
A
Thank you so much. So I'm Dr. Uma Naidu. I'm a nutritional psychiatrist out of Mass General at Harvard Medical School. I founded and direct a clinic in nutritional, lifestyle and metabolic psychiatry which I started several years ago based on my interests in primarily mental health but also the interface with nutritional strategies. So nutritional Psychiatry. And by way of background, I am also a trained chef. So I like to integrate not only the nutrition, but a recipe for someone who wants to heal their mind with food. It's not the only cure, of course, but it's one of the mechanisms to feel better. And I'm also an author of a book called this is your brain on food, which really has. Now the feedback I've gotten is the guide in nutritional psychiatry, showing the science, but also helping people understand why food matters to your mental health. And my new book is called calm your mind with food.
- [03:15]
B
By the way, you are amazing. I always have so much respect for physicians who then go and do something so creative. Like I'm a physician, you know, I'm board certified in psychiatry.
- [03:26]
A
But you know what?
- [03:26]
B
I'm also going to become a chef. That's so great. I meet so many physicians who are also strength coaches and personal trainers and I just love when people marry the two. Okay, I want to start by really defining what nutritional psychiatry is first and foremost.
- [03:46]
A
I want to preface this by saying that nutritional psychiatry is not prescriptive. We are not at the point in the scientific evidence or the research where I can say 10 milligrams of Prozac or 10 blueberries, we're just not there. Nutritional psychiatry is therefore the use of healthy whole foods and nutrients to improve your mental well being. And it is meant to work in conjunction with medications if you are being prescribed those as well as very important different forms of psychotherapy.
- [04:15]
B
Okay, so you've pretty much found a link then between some mental disorders. Let's just, you know, for argument's sake, let's talk about depression or even depressive like symptoms and the relationship between nutrition.
- [04:35]
A
Yes. So, so basically in reviewing the research around depression, turns out that there are some really interesting and cool facts. You've heard about healthy eating before. But it turns out that spices like saffron have a good amount of scientific evidence for helping symptoms of depression. So if you are seeing saffron in supplement form, it is because the research behind saffron, which is a spice we love, it's very expensive, but you only use a few threads in any dish that you cook. But the research actually used high dose supplementation of saffron and showed an improvement in conditions like mood. And of interest, I've had a lot of my patients who have, you know, actually given the saffron supplements to their children and have had some good success. That's anecdotal. I'm not suggesting you do that without consulting your child. Psychiatrist or pediatrician. But it's interesting because these, these are ways where nutrition, food supplement, safe supplementation or nutrients can make a difference, not necessarily cure something, but help alleviate some symptoms.
- [05:43]
B
That's interesting. I actually read a study on saffron and C reactive protein and measures and markers of inflammation. Do you think that it's got to, you know, do you think that that's a plausible link there?
- [05:58]
A
I definitely think there's a plausible link, Theresa. And the reason is that there's been a good body of research linking, and I wouldn't have been able to say this a decade ago, linking inflammation to mental health conditions. So some of the research in inflammation has looked at the fact that the inflammation in the guts, we're talking chronic insidious inflammation. We're not talking about the type of inflammation that happens when you cut, you scrape your knee or you have a cut. That's acute inflammation that the body kicks in to heal itself. We're talking about chronic and insidious inflammation in for example, the gut. And one of the causes of this can be the way that we're eating lifestyle. And when we are consuming, say a fast foods diet diet or foods that are rich in highly processed and ultra processed foods, you are actually feeding your gut microbiome pro inflammatory foods either through the processed vegetable oils in which, which many of the fast food restaurants use because it's more economical, or some of the ultra processed ingredients, the thickness, colorants and dyes, you are feeding that food to your microbiome. A study published, an animal study published in March of 2022 looked at the effect of carboxymethyl cellulose CMC, which is a thickener, in foods on the microbiome of rats and found that the microbiome and metabolome were impacted by the formation of very few if no short chain fatty acids. So when they added the diet, there was not the formation of what we consider the positive substance breakdown substances of food that we want in our gut, microbiome being one of them being short chain fatty acids. So, you know, there are some steady linkages. But we also understand that I think we want to take the conversation beyond the waistline and number on the scale because I think most Americans think, well, if I'm eating these foods, eating fast foods, I'm going to gain weight. It's much more than that. Yes, you're going to affect your weight, you can affect your metabolism, but you actually are also starting to impact your mental health.
- [08:13]
B
Oh, 100%. I think it's got to do With a lot more than that. And quite surprising, I am seeing a lot of research between, you know, the link, you know, this gut brain access. And we hear about it often, you know, the microbes in the gut. And we also hear, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is it true that like 90% of our serotonin resides in the gut?
- [08:34]
A
Yes. So 90%, 90 to 95% of serotonin receptors. And serotonin is in the gut environment. Of course, it's also in the body as well. But. And there does need to be a mechanism to get that across the blood brain barrier. But the reality is, I think what we need to grasp is that the food that we eat and the digestive process, the interaction with the trillions of microbes that live there, is also happening in the same milieu environment as where the serotonin receptors are and the serotonin production is happening. So I think it starts to fill in the picture of why food can impact the brain. Another example, although it's extremely simple that I like to offer people, but again, it starts to make that connection for them is I'll ask them what, what do they do when they have a headache? And they often just like, roll their eyes, like, why are you asking me that? I usually just take headache pill or I try something else and I ask them, well, what do you do when you take the headache pill? Well, as you know, I swallowed, I sip some water, and I hope in 10 to 15 minutes it goes away. And then I say, but where was the pain? And they, you know, point to the head and, and. And then it. But you swallowed it. So how's it getting to your head? And then it starts to unpack. The fact that in a similar way, the food that we eat could have its own pathway as it's broken down, obviously, and digested in terms of impacting other parts of the body, but also the brain.
- [10:01]
B
So then this would, you know, with all the work that you're doing in nutritional psychiatry, we'll call it, do you think that it's plausible to suggest that maybe with much more research and definitely human randomized control data, that maybe there is a future where prescriptions of Prozac may be not so much eliminated, but like, you know, we could improve patients just through diet alone?
- [10:31]
A
I think that where we headed in the research around the microbiome is in the direction of using food as medicine. I think that having had a career of almost two decades now as a psychiatrist, I don't think that we can be able to Eliminate the medications entirely, even if they are imperfect, even if they are not forming the full solution for everyone. There are always individuals who are either not really that interested in looking at lifestyle strategies or, or so severely depressed that they need even ECT along with medications. So I wouldn't want to say that it would replace that, but I think we're moving in a very strong direction towards incorporating food as medicine and seeing what we can do to alleviate symptoms along. In other words, lifestyle measures alongside whatever other treatment you might be doing clinically. What I have seen in my work is that someone may not need a higher dose of the Prozac because they are instituting nutritional measures, lifestyle measures, where they're exercising, they practice mindfulness, they're spending time outdoors. So important for vitamin D, they're doing multiple things as part of a plan that's quite comprehensive, but when you look at it, it's actually lifestyle factors. So I think that that makes a difference in that I've seen where we don't have to up the dose and they can actually get some relief from that comprehensive approach.
- [12:04]
B
Yeah, likewise. I interviewed a psychiatrist a couple of years ago by the name of Dr. Charles Raison. I don't know if you've heard of him, but he's doing a lot of work in the realm of, of saunas and getting patients who he, you know, who have depression and getting them in saunas and seeing if they can maybe lessen the dose of an ss. So I think all of these interventions are really promising for the future. I like that.
- [12:36]
A
I completely agree and I like how you're framing it because I think that even with food, we don't want an all or none response. That's what confuses people. They end up in my practice, it's, should I eat the blueberry? Should I give up this food? And there's a lot of sort of eliminate this. Different types of diets and dietary patterns. It's not that those don't have an impact or have science behind them. All I'm saying is it confuses most people. So we never want to be able to say, oh, you should never have to take that. It's. Well, you could need a low dose, maybe work with your psychiatrist to come off the medications slowly and safely and see how you do over a period of time. I think there's hope in that. Also alongside that, the research in the microbiome is powerful and ongoing in the private sector and things like finding interventions through the use of probiotics or microbiome testing, looking at what Your microbiome says versus what my microbiome says. Finding the right food and dietary pattern that you need to eat, specifically different from my own is. Is. I think is. Is fantastic. And I would hope that that comes forward as well over time.
- [13:47]
B
Yeah. One thing that you advocate for is that there is not a one size fits all.
- [13:52]
A
I don't feel. I don't feel that. And, you know, it wasn't always that way. I had to learn through clinical experience and following the research, initially I would, you know, set up form of a treatment plan and work with an individual. And then I realized one example is a mom and her daughter came in and the daughter was a teenager just accompanying her mom and wanted to learn a little bit from, and the mom was okay with it. So it worked out well. Turned out they had an. An opposite reaction to the same healthy food. And I was blown away. And I started to think this was years ago, and I started to think, well, you know, I would always recommend blueberries. I would always recommend whatever it is, you know, broccoli or something. But it's different for each person. And even with spices that I love, like turmeric with a pinch of black pepper, not everyone responds in the same way. There might be an impact on bile acids and things like that, but, you know, it all has to. It's not one size fits all and has to be very unique to that individual and the microbiome.
- [14:54]
B
Yeah, we're going to get to blueberries in a second because there is so much research on blueberries and overall brain health. But before we do, I'd love to talk about adhd. It's just such a huge marketable thing. Right now I'm seeing adult adhd. I'm seeing, you know, children everywhere on Ritalin. And I'd love to know your thoughts on it.
- [15:16]
A
On.
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B
You know, people are starting to think that, is this an actual real thing or is this just something that we all just have just because of the Internet? Like, for me, I don't have, you know, symptoms of adhd, but look, I. My phone is sitting right next to me. I turn it off. But sometimes I get, like when I'm by myself and I'm like, I'm addicted to it in some sense.
- [15:38]
A
So, yeah, I find a similar thing. It's not so much the attention, but what I find is with devices I'm always on. And I think that it's something I have to remind myself when I'm at dinner, when I'm offline. Is there a reason to be checking that because there's always going to be an incoming message. There's always going to be a question from my team or something that's on. It's not that it's not important. It's how do we kind of step back ourselves? The interesting thing about ADHD is what they're finding is that it seems to be more common now. Is that because we're diagnosing it more, what is the reason for that? Say, well, it could be the evolution of our food system that's, that's continued to be the way that it is. And it's hard for people to, you know, they make, make a really good attempt to eat healthy. But is it, is it that ongoing, that ongoing influence of the food system? The other interesting thing is that ADHD is now being seen more commonly in women. And some of the research has uncovered the fact that women as children often display the same symptoms as young male children who are disruptive, who are creating a ruckus, and they immediately, they kind of get almost pigeonholed or seen as well. You have attentional problems with the young girl. She may be struggling to get herself organized, but it happens in a quieter way. So it sometimes actually gets detected later on in women. So I think there's fascinating research that's, that's ongoing. I think that we tend to have too much time with our devices. I include myself in that. But I think when it comes to adhd, there are ways to help the symptoms. And some of the work that I did in my first book on adhd, one of the chapters was an ADHD shows some good research. We know that the medications used to treat ADHD often suppress appetite, But a study found that eating breakfast was really important because especially in children, in order to keep their attention levels up, they needed to be eating breakfast. And also showed that things like polyphenols from berries, eggplant, onions, even green tea are helpful. Vitamin B, Vitamin C was found to be helpful at B1, as well as certain minerals. And it turns out that, you know, minerals like iron were important. And it also has been shown that iron levels can be deficient and is quite commonly deficient in young children and adolescents. And again, that leads to an uptick of symptoms like anxiety and adhd. But I also think that that could be related to our food system and how a lot of foods we're eating are just not nutrient dense.
- [18:43]
B
Yeah, I hear that. I, I wonder if there's any worldwide studies where they show that the prevalence of some of these major mental illnesses is more prevalent in Societies where they're having, you know, like in America, for example, where the food is. So I would, you know, it is industrialized, it is, you know, manufactured and then processed. And then you go to, I don't know, let's talk about Italy or maybe a Greek island. Would it be per capita, like population wise, would it be a higher prevalency of disorders in that population, do you think?
- [19:23]
A
One of the things I can speak to regarding what I hear anecdotally, but I've also seen and read some research on is that, let's take for example, you mentioned Italy. There are individuals who will say they can eat pasta in Italy, they can consume bread in certain parts of Europe, but they cannot eat those foods in the United States. And the only explanation I have for it is not that they have a true gluten or other allergy, maybe they have some mild non celiac gluten sensitivity, but there is also something about the production of the wheat in those countries and the purity of the grain that they're using versus what we are putting in our food here. You know, we've had fantastic, fantastic books written about the type of wheat that's grown and how, how it's, how it comes to be on our plate in the form of say a pasta. So we know that there's a very big difference. So I think it would be fascinating to look at that type of research. I mean, information from the blue zones is also pretty interesting because it looks at a sense of community, having your own tribe, eating in community, you know, spending time outdoors. And different regions are different. In Loma Lind, they are plant based. In Japan they have a, you know, they eat a lot of seafood. In Costa Rica, they have a lot of beans and plants in their diet, but black beans is a big staple for them. So it's interesting that it's not necessarily the same food that they're eating, but they, there are different factors that make their longevity in these communities and their healthfulness very different. So very positive and very much better than, than elsewhere. So I think it's interesting. This type of data is really fascinating to me.
- [21:22]
B
Yeah. I'd be remiss if I didn't actually tell you that apparently just moving to the United States alone raises your risk for Alzheimer's disease.
- [21:33]
A
Amazing.
- [21:36]
B
Because it's just maybe I question myself.
- [21:39]
A
As to why I moved to Australia.
- [21:41]
B
Okay, moving on. Your mind. Calm your mind with food.
- [21:47]
A
Yeah. Yes.
- [21:49]
B
All right. I'm excited about it. When are we. When is the launch of this book? And let's Just go into it.
- [21:56]
A
Yes. So the launch of this book is on December 26th of 2023. And it's. I'm excited. Excited that it's coming up finally.
- [22:08]
B
Yeah. So what is it? Take me through it. Like, give me a journey of calm your mind with food. Because I got to tell you, I think most of us can benefit from that. I know I can benefit from that. And, you know, I do think that I do calm my mind with food, but I'm a, I'm one of those emotional eaters, so I've never had the tendency to ever turn towards alcohol or any drugs, cigarettes, nothing. But I do tend to turn towards food, maybe when I'm highly stressed. And it's not the good. It's like I would eat a bar of chocolate if I could.
- [22:42]
A
Right. That happens to many of us. So you are not alone. The book is essentially based on my work during the pandemic. My first book really outlined the different mental health conditions and the foods to embrace and foods to kind of step back from therefore speaking to ADHD like we just did. But in this book, what I, what I felt was so important to bring forward was some form of additional tool for people to feel better, given the data that came out through the pandemic. So we know that anxiety published in Lancet anxiety has increased by 25%. And we also know from other research that 70% of individuals never see a mental health clinician or provider. So taking those two facts, I really felt, look, I'm seeing this in my practice all the time. What can we do to use nutritional psychiatry in a good way to help people with anxiety? Maybe while they're waiting to get a therapy appointment, even telehealth appointments are booked up. So it's again offering more solutions. And since we're eating, we're eating several times a day, many of us, why not adjust or edit those eating patterns to feel better? What I do, Luis, in the book is first I talk about the problem. So looking at the actual statistics on anxiety, because some people, they don't just want to say, not everyone wants to hear, well, just do this or try that. We talk about the gut microbiome and the connection, the link between immunity, the link between inflammation, which you highlighted, anxiety and appetite and metabolism. And then sort of how, if our metabolism is disrupted, why does it impact our anxiety? Then I walk people through macronutrients and the micronutrients, bioactive actives, and also want to provide people with, you know, an anti anxiety shopping list. I want people to have Information when they go to the supermarket or the farmer's market, you know, because you need, you want to share the science, but then you want people to have practical things that they can leave the house and do or get online and do their shopping. Also, really building your anti anxiety eating plate and recipes to set up your kitchen and recipes to calm your mind. So it's meant to be something that people can go to throughout their lives. And all the time it can be while you're working with the doctor, while you're waiting for a therapy appointment, you might already be in treatment, but what else can you do? One of the things I have to share with you that I'm very excited about is I love being in the kitchen. And so I decided, you know, people associate lavender with going to a spa and kind of an oil and all of that, which is true. But lavender can be made into a really delicious tea. And lavender is a fragrance that is calming and the aroma of it is very healing to the mind. But I put it into a Play DOH that's not edible. And it's really meant to be like you kind of use a stress ball, you see people kind of walking around with one just to de stress. But the Play DOH is meant to be a simple recipe. Any one of us can do it. And it's just to have something with the fragrance and aroma of the lavender, but something to kind of work with that you can even, you know, keep at your desk and while you're on a zoom call and, you know, or anxious about a meeting you're having, it's just something to, in other words, it's something you can use to de stress. But this is the whole idea of conveying that it's not one thing, nutrition is a pillar of it, but it's so many things that you can be doing. Doing.
- [26:36]
B
Yeah. It reminds me of the research that, you know, I've, I've seen when it comes to exercise and dementia, for example, and what's. What's happening is. Or let's look at executive functions, you know, I hear often, oh. Exercise increases episodic memory by way of BDNF expression, which then improves hippocampal volume. However, what we see is that without actually practicing memory tasks, you won't get better at memory. So what the exercise is doing, it's providing an environment that is going to be great for you to then go and practice your memory. And now I'm starting to get into this whole environment kind of thinking, meaning, let's lay down the soil you know, lay down the soil so we can plant a tree and the tree can thrive. And it kind of feels like what you're saying now, like, let's provide the brain with an optimal environment via nutrition, but let's also keep in mind that it doesn't stop there. And if you do feel as though you have, you know, symptoms that you need to talk to a practitioner about, that has to be added as well. It can't just be, I'm going to have the blueberries and I'm going to have the saffron and it's going to cure me.
- [27:54]
A
Correct. And anyone who conveys or thinks that that is what nutritional psychiatry is about is, is mistaken because I'd be very surprised to find anyone practicing that way. People have opinions about which diet you should follow and which diet is better where the data is. But I don't think anyone that I know is saying, oh, you know, this is a movement, we're getting rid of medications. There was a very interesting study, in fact, talking about serotonin, SSRI medication that out of a wonderful research group in London published in the British Medical Journal last year, and I reference it in my book, all to say that they, they sort of produced really good information to suggest that serotonin has little to do with depression and mood and the kind of power that we've given to all of that. And I was very cautious. I cited the information and I think it was very well done research.
- [28:53]
B
That's huge because I think like, like in the last 20 years or 30 years or whatever, you, we've heard that it's, you know, some people who may not be in the scientific or medical space just hear that depression maybe means that you're not getting enough serotonin.
- [29:11]
A
That's been like the basis of a lot of, a lot of certainly pharmaceutical development. And you know, I wanted to be cautious when I messaged around this because I didn't want people to feel, well, now you need to throw out your Prozac or whatever it is. You need to really be talking to your doctor about it. Right. To find the way forward. For one thing, one great body of research doesn't mean we need to change everything. Obviously we want it to be replicated, we want to look more into it. But what I'm saying is that a lot of stuff we think we know, but we actually may not know. And I think any person in the space who comes out and says, well, you have to do this and you should never do that. I think that when you get to those Extremes, I think A, it confuses the public how you message that and B, let's remain a little bit humble about it. We, we don't, none of us knows all of the facts, but can we produce well vetted information that can help you make a decision and lead you to your best mental well being, your best mental fitness? A lot of my patients, when we working on their mental fitness, some of them lose weight, weight because they're just eating healthier. Some of them, not only we want them to feel better, but their physical health improves as well. I had a patient who actually was referred to me for anxiety by her, her endocrinologist. So she developed, she has, she had, has diabetes, but she was extremely anxious and she, her doctor felt that anxiety was driving her blood sugar impairment. She was type one, she was type one diabetic. And she would be in my office, this was before COVID and usually would see her in the afternoon and her alarm would go off and she would literally, you know, scrummage in her bag and take out an orange juice or, you know, a cookie or something. Honestly, a processed food that wasn't the healthiest to get her sugar up. And it really puzzled me, so I was like, well, of course I've seen this before, but what's going on with this? And so we slowly and steadily started to actually teach her healthier eating habits. So with her, it really began, which is very well qualified, highly intelligent, professional, very busy. So we literally had to do things like create the right shopping list for her, find times in the day that she could practice meditation, almost create a whole plan throughout every day for her. On her days off, she would do meal prep and her food shopping. On her work days, she would no longer eat from the cafeteria. She would carry a healthy salad. We looked at what types of proteins and fats and the balance of her carbohydrates. We, we had her bring in her own snacks. When she traveled at work, we switched her only to drinking water, tea, coffee, a little bit of each. And over time, her endocrinologist wrote to me and said we need to lower her insulin levels because she has lost weight, she is less anxious, she's eating very differently from when she came in, and she's actually feeling better. So we think this is a big win because she doesn't need as much and she needed some. But it wasn't to the extent and we'd gotten over that slump where her alarm was going off every single day and she would fly into a panic and start eating tons of sugar. To almost do the reverse of what she needed to do. Right. Because she's actually diabetic. But that was very rewarding because I didn't know what would happen. Yes. I've read a lot of research about, well, you can do this and you can tweak that. I hadn't seen it, but it was very powerful that I saw the changes that she made. And they were not rocket science, they were not some special diet. It was really embracing a healthy whole foods diet and making some tweaks and adding in more things like exercise, movement, daylight or time outdoors and things like that.
- [33:32]
B
Yeah. What I love is that you're really alluding to processed foods and you haven't said red meat is bad or the carnivore diet is bad or the plant based diet is bad. And we're seeing these nutrition wars and I think it's confusing the public. Especially when I say the public, I mean people get their information these days on Instagram. And who do you follow? Do you follow the plant based person? Do you follow the raw food person? Do you follow the carnivore? And you're kind of saying like, it's what makes you feel good.
- [34:04]
A
Really, it's what makes you feel good. And I also feel very strongly about food equity. My early life, I don't know I shared this with you, Louisa, but I grew up in South Africa before I had the opportunity to study in Boston. And I grew up as a child in apartheid not really understanding why the color of my skin mattered. Two things I was permitted to do and not permitted to do. And you know, in South Africa when I grew up, there wasn't a gray zone. You were either a person of color or you were Caucasian. And being a person of color, you had access to far less opportunity and all of that. And what I realized, many years of processing, what was in many ways a trauma that you don't necessarily realize, was that I didn't have a choice. I didn't have a choice. And it was oppression based on the color of my skin again. And it made me feel very strongly about food equity. Like food, nutrition, cooking, all of the stuff matters a great deal to me, as does mental health and physical well being. But I feel like a person can decide for themselves. I'm here to guide you as to if you're going to eat, you know, beef, I'm going to tell you the best cut to get the a good way to prepare it and find and first and foremost ask what access you have because you may not be able to eat the best filet. But can you eat a healthy version? Can you prepare it in a way, can you eat it in a certain. With a lot of vegetables? Those types of things actually matter to me. And you know, I get a lot of comments about that. You know, why do you post about this and why do you think it's okay? Some people eat turkey, some people drink their own pot, people do different things, some people eat only vegetables. There's space for everyone in the world. And what can we do to improve your mental well being with the diet you have? But if you say I'm only eating processed foods and drinking tons of soda, I'm going to step in and say, well, can we do something about that and add an A, B, C and D. Because that to me has worked with people and is more sustainable than saying never eat something.
- [36:27]
B
Yeah, I think, I don't know if you would get a compliant person who you would say to them, you know, if they wanted to feel better and you wanted to really change their diet. If you said you have to have the carnivore diet, for me even that would be like, you know, and I eat meat but I'm not on the carnivore diet and it would be, I would not be compliant and therefore I would not see results, not see results.
- [36:55]
A
And not be able to sustain it. Because I've had individuals follow a certain diet and end up in trouble and then come and see me. And it's often that they've excluded an entire food group and not only does their physical health suffer, but their mental health has suffered. So I think we need to take into account and be more embracing of what people eat in order to help them, them. And I'm not saying I have a cure or that it may be perfect, but I can give you some guidance based on what I know and you can decide for yourself what the issues are with your diet. Because I find that sustainable people are then going to feel like they can do it longer term. They understand it's a marathon and not a sprint. And I've also seen the opposite. I've had people come in and want to do 10 things at a time too fast, sustain it for a month and then have a complete reversal, sort of a boomerang effect and gain, gain back weight, feel more depressed, lots of stuff like that. That's just not sustainable.
- [38:02]
B
I'd be interested to know what your research has been on. When it comes to nutrition and hormones, for example, we know that even with, you know, men and women are different, we know that Women are understudied when it comes to academic research. So when you're looking at all of these studies, are they focusing on both genders or. And does hormones play a role when it comes to nutrition?
- [38:31]
A
So first and foremost, hormones definitely play a role when it comes to nutrition. We know that scientific research is, you know, to some extent in the dark ages because so many of the studies are not involving women. But there's a burgeoning amount of research now in the menopause space and great, great work being done there. There. One of the reasons that I, I have seen that the hormones, you know, are related to, to nutrition is firstly the gut microbiome. Those trillions of microbes that live in the gut microbiome are involved in many different functions. Sleep and circadian rhythm, vitamin production, hormone production, immunity, mental health, so many things. But the fact that they're involved in hormone production, they are their response to stress, their response to lifestyle factors such as food, what we're eating, what we're drinking, all of that matters. When people, when women are having issues with, it could be something related to mood disorder. It could be the symptoms that they experience around menopause or perimenopause. And they get told by a primary care doctor or doctor that they say, well, you just need Prozac or you just need an ss, you just need to feel, you know, you need, you're too anxious, you need this. Without examining what their body is going through. And I think that's, that's really just wrong. It's, it's really not looking at what might, what she might be going through. I think that nutrition can be very impactful because sometimes when women, or what I've heard in my practice, certainly when they, they are at perimenopausy, they have heightened cravings, they, you know, find it harder and it's been shown it's harder to lose weight. They, you know, the exercising the way that they used to and the same food that they were consuming has a different impact on their body. So one of the things I like to work with people on is working on an anti inflammatory diet, cleaning up their diet from wherever it's at. Maybe they've picked up a habit or two that they want to cut back on or maybe they're really struggling and eating as healthy as they can, but they just, you know, they do just not feeling good. So what can we do to, to tweak that?
- [40:52]
B
Yeah, really paying attention to the patient. I think that this is what I'm hearing. It's just Bringing up so many things like I just had. What are we? Thursday today? On Monday I interviewed an obesity medicine doctor and she revealed some really fascinating research when it came to females and fertility. She had a patient, I think she was maybe 37 years old, trying it very hard to conceive. And when she became more metabolically fit and metabolically healthy, she shed, I think like £10. I don't know what it was, but she just fell pregnant and she had an easy time. I think she had two. She's, you know, onto her second child now and that was interesting to see the link between that. So then this could also mean like, like correct your, you know, because we hear about a lot of women as well maybe finding it hard to conceive, but as soon as they just go on a mental break and stop trying to conceive, they end up falling pregnant.
- [41:49]
A
Yes.
- [41:49]
B
So there's got to be something that's like stopping, maybe it's the, I'm not sure what it is. Maybe it's the mental side, the cortisol side.
- [41:57]
A
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I agree, I completely agree with you. I've seen that. I've especially think that there's new, newer ongoing research around fertility and the level of stress that women are under and how can they become either more metabolically flexible or metabolically fit and make, you know, sometimes it's weight loss and other things that are going on and once that happens they have a much easier time. They may actually no longer need an actual treatment to have the, you know, a fertility treatment. And this happens certainly when individuals, it's happened a couple of times when individuals have been in fertility treatment, have not been successful, they stop the treatment and they kind of just go on a different path around lifestyle factors, eating healthier, exercising almost to de stress and when their stress level is low, they get pregnant. And I think how can we ignore that fact? How can we ignore those factors? So I feel that that's a very big area that, that we want to know more about.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah. And it relates to men as well. We're seeing a, I think it's a worldwide deficiency, maybe it's just a US population deficiency of low testosterone and which I think is classified as 300 nanograms per deciliter or less. And we know that certain foods can disrupt hormone levels in men and endocrine disrupting chemicals as well, which, you know, know we can see chemicals in these ultra processed foods as well that may be interfering with the hormone levels of men too. So it's not just women, it's also men too.
- [43:41]
A
Yes. And thank you for, for saying that because we were kind of talking about menopause, but. Yes, you know, there are, there are, there are issues happening for men as well.
- [43:51]
B
Yeah. Well, Dr. Uma, tell me where we can purchase your book when it comes out on Boxing Day.
- [43:59]
A
Thank you. That's right. In other parts of the world, December 26th is Boxing Day. Growing up, that's what it was. So December 26th of this year, 2023, the book will be out. You can buy it right now. It will ship on the 26th and you can get it at any online or local retailer where books are sold. You can also go to my website, umanaidumd.com if you sign up for my newsletter. You get tips about food every week. You can also buy the book there. I have a mini course that we're selling the book and the reason we're doing that and putting it together is we know that people are feeling anxious and we wanted them to have something to work on while waiting for the book to come out. So that's a neat solution for those of you trying to get through the holidays. It's not an easy time for many of us, but we want to try to make this a positive and see what we can do to empower ourselves to feel better. So I thank you for supporting there.
- [44:56]
B
No, I thank you for all the wonderful research you're doing. We're going to link all of that in the show notes and just remind me of your Instagram handle as well.
- [45:04]
A
Yes, thank you. It's at D R U M A N A I D O o. So at Dr. Umanaidu.
- [45:11]
B
We'll link all of that below. Dr. Naidu, thank you so much for being part of the neuro experience.
- [45:17]
A
Thank you so much for having me, Lisa. It's always lovely to talk with you.