← The Neuro Experience
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- [00:00]
A
The biggest reason why I've brought you on the podcast and why you are the first dentist to ever be on the podcast is because something has been haunting me ever since I started researching this. I found a study showing that women with gum disease take on average two months longer to conceive. But it gets worse. The bacteria P. Gingivalis has been found in placental tissue of women who miscarried. I mean, I'm talking bacteria in the gums of these women. I get DMs all the time from women on Instagram. Right. Just regarding the podcast. And I have received DMs from women who have spent years trying to conceive. And their reproductive endocrinologists are running every single test except for checking their oral microbiome or the oral health. So I need you to tell me right now, what are the. What's the link here?
- [00:50]
B
We are working on changing this. Like imagine if fertility clinics or oral microbiome testing and asking couples about their oral health. That's really what we need to move toward. So the studies that you're referring to is from the University of Western Australia, and it looked at, it was a cohort study, and it looked at 3,800 women, and it did find, on average, it took about two extra months to conceive when women had active periodontal disease.
- [01:17]
A
So cohort is where they track them over time, correct?
- [01:21]
B
Yes. And so why is that? So periodontal disease is a chronic state of gum disease. And so that involves certain pathogens, P. Gingivalis being one of them. And there's something called leaky gums. We've all heard of leaky gut and intestinal permeability. But now I want everyone to think of leaky gums. So do your gums bleed when you brush and floss? That's a sign of inflammation. That's also now a way, a vector for this bacteria to get into the circulatory system, which, where they release exotoxins and have cytokine release, and they cause inflammation, they can cause DNA fragmentation, and it can impact our fertility, endocrine disruption. And this includes not just with women, but men also. It can impact sperm mobility, sperm motility, sperm count. And so imagine if we started looking and testing patients, oral microbiomes to see do they have these pathogens. And you wouldn't know necessarily until you test. And just like we're getting into gut mapping, I really would like us to move toward oral microbiome testing, too, because we know there's so much connection between the state of our mouth and the state of our other systems.
- [02:35]
A
You just said a few words that I've never heard of. Mouth mapping.
- [02:39]
B
Mouth mapping, I think we coined it.
- [02:41]
A
That's unbelievable. We'll get into that, but I want to know the exact pathway. So, a few years ago, I came across a study linking P. Gingivalis periodontal disease to Alzheimer's. And we saw that it went from the gum through the vagus nerve and then into the brain. The vagus nerve is the tenth cranial nerve. And that's the idea that. I know. But how are we seeing that pathogen go from the gum all the way down to the placenta or the ovaries and causing these issues?
- [03:11]
B
So the circulatory system is what we know as now in the lymphatic system. I would not be surprised if they're catching a ride on certain nerves as well, just like the vagus nerve with the brain. But it's not only the bacteria themselves, but it's their exotoxins, it's their byproducts that they release as well. So the cytokines interleukin 1, interleukin 6, TNF alpha, which cause inflammation downstream. And so it's not only the bacteria themselves, but it's the things that they create, and it's the things that their cell wall are creating, too, and lipopolysaccharides. So these things really do wreak havoc on the system and can end up in places they shouldn't be.
- [03:52]
A
So then at the end of it. And the root cause is always inflammation.
- [03:56]
B
Inflammation, yes.
- [03:57]
A
And so the infl. These inflammatory cytokines and biomarkers are going into the circulatory system, which can obviously go and lodge in different organs. But when we're talking about reproduction as a whole, it's. It's interfering and causing, like, an inflammatory cascade in those areas which can make it harder to conceive.
- [04:17]
B
That's exactly right. Yes. Yes. And impacting egg implantation. And you mentioned pregnancy outcomes, unfortunately, miscarriages and just having more challenges in pregnancy as well. And then we cannot forget about the male counterparts. I feel like women get blamed for a lot of this, but it is impacting sperm mobility and motility as well, because not only is it inflammation, but how is that inflammation impacting our. Our hormone health and endocrine disruption?
- [04:48]
A
It's so interesting you said that, because I have a very close friend of mine who is going through ivf, and she's done three cycles of implantation, and. And she's miscarried on three, and then she did the fourth one and the fourth one didn't stick. Her physician has no answers. And I've never heard of the oral microbiome affecting this.
- [05:13]
B
Yes, it'd be interesting for her to look at this. Of course, I'd encourage her to test her oral microbiome, but also just have an oral screening. Does she have a failing root canal? Does she have gum inflammation that maybe hasn't progressed to true periodontal disease? Yes. Or does she have other oral dysbiosis that wouldn't be so obvious from just something that's gone awry in the mouth? Failing fillings, halitosis, tonsil stones, these are all signs of oral dysbiosis. So, but the first step is the screening tool. And traditional dentistry tends to not have solid metrics. We just observe, we look at an X ray, we look in the mouth. This is why we want to move toward data, which is oral microbiome testing.
- [06:00]
A
I'm really excited because this is all new to me. So I think we should start with something basic, which is what exactly counts as oral health. Is it just brushing and flossing, or is there more going on inside the mouth that people don't realize? I think, why don't we have a complete map of what oral health is?
- [06:18]
B
So unfortunately, dentistry has gone one way and medicine has gone another. And just like much in medicine, we compartmentalize things. And so the mouth has been considered outside of the body by so many, and I think it becomes an afterthought. And I'm encouraging everyone to get the mouth back into the body and really consider it the gateway of health. What you see in the mouth can be a reflection of what's happening inside the system. Okay, so like everything, nutrition and optimization with nutrient dense foods, whole foods, and making sure that your body's working effectively and efficiently is paramount. And I think people forget how important nutrition is for oral health. So that's where I always like to start with my patients. Are you optimizing fat soluble vitamins? Are you optimizing minerals, calcium, phosphorus, trace minerals, magnesium, D3K2? All of these things are necessary to have optimized health. Then we go into airway and breathing. How are you breathing? People who mouth breathe, they have a lower PH of their mouth. It's acid that's actually causing disease in the mouth. Many people blame sugar. It's actually acid. How are they breathing? What is your phone? What is your salivary health like? No one thinks about spit, but spit is the golden elixir of your body. It is so important for digestion. It's where digestion starts. Think of swallowing. It's priming digestion. In the gut, it is filled with immune cells and enzymes and in minerals that help with remineralization of the teeth. But it also protects the teeth. So people who have dry mouth from either mouth, breathing, perhaps they're undergoing cancer therapy, they're on certain medications or as we age, that can impact oral health as well. So I want to talk about breathing, I want to talk about spit and saliva.
- [08:18]
A
Yeah.
- [08:19]
B
Hydration. And I also then go to hygiene. So hygiene's lower on the list and we can go into the detail that's so interesting. Yes. For example, the carnivore group sometimes say, I don't floss and brush. I don't need to. I am not recommending this. But to, to a degree, they're correct. So there. If you are eating an ultra processed.
- [08:39]
A
Food, because now you just so. It's so funny because now you've just brought up an image in my head of Paul Saladino. Yes. He, he, he puts a lot on, on YouTube shorts. And I see him, like, he tells us, you know, I don't, I don't. He doesn't wash himself with soap, he doesn't brush his teeth. And I think he must smell.
- [09:00]
B
He may smell, but I bet his teeth are healthy.
- [09:04]
A
Okay. All right, so let's start from your top of your tree and we can go down because it's so interesting.
- [09:09]
B
Yeah. So what is really causing disease is ultra processed foods. So pathogenic bacteria in our mouth, they love fermentable carbohydrates, they love flour and they love sugar, just to simplify it. So they consume and metabolize that and they release acid as a result. So if you're not feeding them these types of foods, they can't survive in the mouth and you will most likely have more commensal bacteria or healthy bacteria. So Paul's correct in saying if I eat mostly, you know, meat and vegetables, some fruit, I know he does a little honey now, you're going to be pretty, pretty set. And if you look back ancestrally, 10, 12,000 years ago, we really didn't suffer from cavities as a species. Go to the Natural History Museum, look at ancestral skulls. We have to remember, 10, 12,000 years ago is not that long ago in human existence and evolution. And so why is that? It's because of our diet. We weren't eating a lot of sugar and flour and processed foods. Occasionally we might find a Berry, bush or tree. But it was limited. Right? It was very seasonal, and so we weren't exposed to a lot of sugar. And so teeth were quite pristine. Domesticated animals get cavities, but wild animals do not. Why is that? It's diet. Again, I'm not recommending this because I do think you would have food lodged in your teeth that would degrade, that would probably not smell great. But you may not have certainly a lot of cavities. You may still have some gum disease. But. So I am. I want to be clear. I want everyone flossing and brushing. We'll talk about tongue scraping and other things. But my point is, it's not as important, I think, as traditional dentistry makes it out to be. I think these other things are more important. What we're eating, how frequently we're eating, and that makes a big difference, too. So I can go into that. So we are a society on the go, and we snack and eat and graze and sip all day long. Every time you eat or sip or snack, you are changing the PH of your mouth. That's the acid or the base base level for people that may not know what ph refers to. And also you are changing the microbiome. Anytime you put anything into your mouth, there will be some alteration in the microbiome. It's the terrain theory. So if you're in balance, you know, things sort themselves out and you stay in a state of harmony and not disease. But if things are imbalanced, it can tip the scale and you can end up with oral disease, cavities, gum disease, bad breath, tongue coating, et cetera. So we want to make sure that we are optimized in those ways.
- [11:57]
A
First, every time you eat, you change the oral microbiome, but it evidently goes back to baseline after a while.
- [12:03]
B
That's right. So every time we eat, the PH drops in our mouth. It's that acidity that will pull some minerals out of our teeth. That's called demineralization. This is a normal process. So our teeth are constantly demineralizing and remineralizing all day long, assuming we give our saliva a chance to push these minerals back into our teeth without being disrupted. So it's just like we know we're not for optimal gut health. We shouldn't be eating constantly. It's the same with your mouth. So I really like people to eat on a schedule, okay? Ideally every two hours or so. Now, this is why we want to focus on satiating foods, protein, heavy foods. But unfortunately, especially with kids, we snack and think of these hyper palatable foods. Now, the bliss point, you know, we are over consuming Goldfish, crackers, Doritos, cracker, you know, chips, granola bars, fruit snacks. And they're meant to be over consumed, right? The bliss point is that perfect blend of fat and salt and sweet that the brain just can't get enough of. And I'm guilty of it too. Like I eat a Dorito.
- [13:13]
A
Yeah, you gotta have the whole thing.
- [13:15]
B
The bag's empty, you know. And so it's teaching not only about what foods to eat, but how to consume them and to eat them more on a schedule and not just constantly be grabbing a handful, spread out over time. The mouth needs to rest to allow the saliva to do its work to remineralize the teeth. And so what is a cavity? It's a state where there's been too much demineralization to the point where so many minerals are lost in your tooth, it forms a hole or a cavity. Cavitation is a hole. And this can unfortunately happen fairly quickly with the modern diet, with the frappuccinos and you know, these energy drinks, which are not only maybe high in certain sugars, but also the ph is really important of our drinks because that's acidity.
- [14:01]
A
I, you know, years ago I remember a dentist telling me every time you eat, you should brush your teeth. And I thought, well, I'm not going to brush my teeth like ten times a day. Is that a wrong thing to do?
- [14:11]
B
Well, the issue is this gets a little purist. But you know, as I mentioned, every time we eat, we do lose some minerals from our teeth. That's a natural process. So if you're going and brushing right away, the bristles from your toothbrush can actually be damaging your enamel a little bit. It can scrape away kind of that fragile enamel on the outside of your teeth. So you don't want to brush right after you eat. I suggest patients wait about 20 to 30 minutes, so at least they can get that hardening effect from their silicon saliva. So the bristles of their toothbrush aren't flaking away enamel. And over time, you do that day after day, year after year, you're going to get sensitivity and permanent enamel loss.
- [14:49]
A
I've heard you say that we swallow on average 2,000 times a day. Yes, and you've mentioned that our saliva is really important for everything. So let's unpack that as well because I think that that's, that's super interesting because dry mouth is a, it can be an underlying symptom for many, many chronic diseases. In fact.
- [15:12]
B
Absolutely. And hormonal changes in women too will lead to dry mouth too. And that's. We'll jump into that maybe later, but yes, I mean, our saliva, so what does it do? It lubricates, it protects, it has immune defense in it, it will remineralize our teeth. As I mentioned, it has enzymes that break down our food. Okay, so that's part of the digestive process, but it's also seeding and sending signals to the gut. And this is still. We need to be studying this more. But imagine if you have pathogenic bacteria in your mouth and you're swallowing 2,000 times a day, what is this doing downstream to the gut microbiome? Okay. And so if with my functional medicine colleagues and my naturopathic colleagues, if they're trying to clean up a patient's gut, I always ask, are you looking at their mouth too? And so the mouth is the gut. We need to start thinking of it that way and treating them together if we're suffering from disease in one or the other because they're bi directional and a lot of it is from the salivary health team.
- [16:18]
A
I have to cut in here and talk to you about Function Health because Function Health is the only platform that gives you access to the kind of data that most people never see and the insights to actually take action. Now, I get asked on a daily basis, Louisa, where do I get my blood taken? Do I ask my doctor? Like what do I ask for? Let me tell you. In one visit with Function Health, you can test over 160 biomarkers from heart and hormones to toxins, inflammation and even genetics. Plus advanced scans like multi region MRI and ct. All of it is tracked over time in the function platform so you can see exactly how your health is changing. When I did my function testing, I found out that one of my genes, the MTHFR gene, affects how my brain makes serotonin and dopamine. If it's not working efficiently, which by the way, it wasn't, it can raise homocysteine levels which have been linked to anxiety, depression, migraines and Alzheimer's disease. So seeing that data alongside my other biomarkers gave me a whole body view of my health and where to take action. If you want to understand what your genes and biomarkers are saying about you, join function. Just visit functionhealth.com louisianicola use code NEURO100. The first 1000 people get $100 credit towards their membership. Guys, you need to know your biomarkers. I can't stress this enough? So guys, that is neuro 100 at checkout or at signup or you can just go to functionhealth.com LouisaniCol I'd like to take a moment to thank today's sponsor, Bon Charge. If you've ever wondered how to simplify your skincare routine with science backed results, I'm going to tell you about something that I have been using and something I really believe in. So I've been integrating Bon Charge's red light face mask into my daily routine and it's revolutionized my skin health in just 10 minutes a day. I also use their red light panel. I have it in my bedroom and, and unlike most people who use their red light panels at night to help them with sleep, I actually use mine first thing in the morning. But this mask, right, this one that I've been using harnesses clinically validated wavelengths. And it's around 630 nanometers, which is red, and 850 nanometers near infrared. And these lights deeply rejuvenate your skin. And that is because red light enhances collagen production, reduces inflammation and smooths wrinkles. And then the near infrared light penetrates deeper to support cellular repair and overall skin vitality. It's designed for convenience. It's lightweight, it's a flexible mask so it contours seamlessly to your face and it's rechargeable and eco friendly. So I use this every morning. I only use it for 10 minutes a day. It's portable, you can walk around the house using it. But if you guys want to try this out or simply just learn about the science of red light face masks, head on over to Bond Charge. If you want to purchase this, you can use code NEURO15 to get 15% off. Guys, don't skip on red light, especially for your face. Head on over to boncharge.com and enter code NEURO15 for 15% off. How can you even test if you have a bad oral microbiome? Is there something?
- [19:59]
B
Yeah, you test your spit. So salivary analysis.
- [20:01]
A
Okay.
- [20:02]
B
And so there are more and more tests coming out. This is blowing up. We're at the forefront of it. But the oral microbiome is really coming center stage, which I'm excited about. More progressive dentists have been doing this for years looking for specific pathogens in the mouth, especially if you suffer from periodontal disease. Because when you have these pathogens, no amount of oral hygiene is going to eradicate them. We have to look toward nutraceuticals and sometimes Pharmaceuticals. And we also now there are tests that are direct to consumer, which is really cool.
- [20:36]
A
Oh, that's amazing.
- [20:37]
B
Yes, yes. There are a few brands I like more and more are coming out. The ones I do prefer use shotgun metagenomics because they're looking for not just certain pathogens, but bacteria, viruses, protozoa, the whole shebang, you know, and including all their DNA. They're also seeing what are they doing, how are they interacting with each other and then how is it impacting gut health? For example, sometimes you'll see H. Pylori in the mouth or Candida in the mouth, but you also see it in the gut.
- [21:09]
A
You have to treat both and that's with antibiotics, obviously.
- [21:15]
B
Usually the protocols for various virulent pathogens are in. It's antibiotic therapy. Yes.
- [21:21]
A
I wonder if it's the same. So I've done a spit test for. Just to test my cortisol. So would this be the same thing? Is it, is it time locked at like 6am, 12pm 6pm no, it's usually.
- [21:32]
B
Just, it's just one, one spit test in the morning. You just want to make sure you probably haven't eaten or consumed any beverages or brush your teeth.
- [21:39]
A
Yeah.
- [21:39]
B
And you just spit first thing in the morning and you ship it out and you get your results two or three weeks later. And some of these brands are being very thoughtful about having the interface. Educational, but also with protocols for patients too.
- [21:51]
A
That's what I was about to say. Because my problem is, I mentioned to you, I went and did a total tox screen test which measures, I think there's like 800 different biomarkers for heavy metals. Right. And it came back as completely positive for nickel and some other ones that I can't even pronounce. But no one's told me what to do about it. I'm like, well, am I meant to get into a sauna? And that's the thing. Think the problem here. We can get all these tests. I wonder if they're available in Australia. I don't know if it will be. We're a bit behind in that aspect. But majority of people in the US can just order one of these tests.
- [22:27]
B
Yes. Yeah. The test I, I like is bristle. Like a toothbrush bristle. There are, there are other tests. One is viome. I mean they're, they're starting to make these tests very familiar. Yeah, they're starting to make these tests very bio individualized too in the treatment protocols. Bio individualized. So you are absolutely right. And there's much room for improvement. I mean, I even go to these lectures and conferences and at the end you say, great, what do we do? And so this is missing, okay, this is missing from the education, the curriculum. But there are protocols out there. Bristle's excellent at it. And again, sometimes it is changing the diet, having more nitrate reducing foods like to work on nitric oxide production, more vitamin C, more minerals. You can use herbal medications that maybe have oregano in them and grapefruit seed extract, tea tree oil. It's important to know a lot of these essential oils, which people think, oh, my breath feels minty and fresh and lovely. They can be damaging your healthy bacteria. They're quite potent, some of them as strong as antimicrobial antibiotics. So just be cautious. But we love to use them when we're dealing with acute disease. Okay. Baking soda can be great because it neutralizes the ph using like a water pick. Biocidin is a, is a. It breaks up biofilm. It's an, it's an herb blend that breaks up the biofilm. So there's different companies coming out with products that can be used. But then to your point earlier, some of these heavy hitters, they do need antibiotic therapy. And that's where we would need a dentist to be educated in this and prescribing appropriately.
- [24:17]
A
So let me see if I've got this straight. We can do a, we can do a spit test to test the oral microbiome. It comes back and with something positive for something, we correct for that. Okay, but that could mean the reason why we're getting cavities or periodontal disease. Okay. So that's what we have to do. And then we obviously get on a protocol to correct that, which should be lifelong.
- [24:38]
B
And. Yes, and if I may, if you're treating yourself, you need to treat your partner also.
- [24:44]
A
I was actually going to ask about that because you said every time we eat, we change the ph. What about if we're kissing somebody?
- [24:49]
B
Yes, you are exchanging saliva. So bacteria is transmissible, Cavities are transmissible. It's very. Well, not cavities, but the bacteria that causes cavities is transmissible. So when a child is born, a baby is born, their mouth is pretty neutral. Okay. They are inoculated by someone, usually a caregiver with strep mutans or candida. And that is how the process can start. Now, we all have exposures, but this goes back to the terrain theory. So why does someone become very vulnerable when they're exposed to these pathogens and someone else doesn't you hear this all the time. I work a lot with children. And two children come in, one has cavities, one doesn't. And the one that has cavities does everything perfectly. They eat well, et cetera. And the one that doesn't is just lucky. And so the parent always says, what gives? And this is what we need to explore more. And it could be, you know, what is their gut microbiome like? Are they nutritionally deficient? You know, you can't tell that looking at someone. Are you vitamin D deficient or not? Are you optimizing your minerals? There are genetic predispositions and gene SNPs now that we're looking at too. So this gets very nuanced quickly. And this is where functional dentistry is coming in to try to put all these pieces together and connect the dots, much like functional medicine does that. We can't just be looking at things observationally. We really need to dig deeper and have data.
- [26:19]
A
And is it bidirectional? You said what happens to the mouth? Is it the same? What happens to the gut? Control travel up to.
- [26:25]
B
That's right, yes. They're bidirectional.
- [26:27]
A
Okay, so you've painted a really good picture for us to move into some more tricky things, such as my heart and soul, which is Alzheimer's disease. It's taken, you know, I'm now 12, 13 years into my career and I research Alzheimer's disease and people probably think, what takes you that long to research that? Well, yes, and every single week I find out something new. Notably, we're going to talk about P. Gingivalis, the study that, that you sent me inside the brains of people with Alzheimer's disease. We mentioned that it can travel to the brain via the vagus nerve. If bacteria can cross the blood brain barrier. What's the path then? I mean, like, is it from bleeding gums? Is it from.
- [27:08]
B
Yes. Yeah, it's the bleeding gums. Yes. So we say pink in the sink. That's just a really nice way. If you are spitting out your saliva after you floss and brush, you see pink. There's some inflammation and some now way for communication, much like leaky gut. We really need to start thinking of it that way. But again, it's not just the bacteria, but it's also what they're releasing, you know, the endotoxins, the exotoxins and the cytokine release. Essentially, that's happening. And once those get into the brain, what's happening? They can form amyloid plaques. Okay.
- [27:42]
A
Which is the biomarker yes. Yes. Of Alzheimer's disease.
- [27:46]
B
Yes. And tau tangles will be noted as well. In this study. We'll talk about it was looking at postmortem patients, 54. They found 91 to 96% of them had P. Gingivalis or these tangles or amyloid plaques in the brain. This is hard. We were speaking earlier about confounding variables and is this correlation or causation? And so we do need more research. But it did show that looking at controlled. The controlled brains had no P. Gingivalis. Okay, so where are these bacteria coming from? It's from periodontal disease. It's from gum disease. Now, the argument against some of these studies is, well, when someone has cognitive decline, generally their oral health may decline also. So they tried to control for that with animal studies where they had healthy mice eating a healthy diet and inoculated them with P. Gingivalis, and they found very similar results.
- [28:47]
A
That's interesting because what we see in patients with cognitive decline, they too have a leaky brain, if you will, but a leaky blood brain barrier where the cells that cover the outside of the brain, they become somewhat, let's just say leaky. Okay. And they allow for the passive diffusion of certain molecules to come in. So I wonder if it's caused, you know, if it's in turn, if the P Gene Devalus is able to go through the blood brain barrier because it's leaky.
- [29:19]
B
Yes. And that's what's hard to rule out. I mean, is it's. Is it the P. Gingivalis causing it, or once it gets there, is it expediting the issue?
- [29:27]
A
It goes back to what you said previously with. With. It's a cascade for inflammation. Now at the root. I mean, I'll be really cautious of this, but we know that inflammation really is at the root when we talk about Alzheimer's disease. Right. But that can mean it's. It's coming from anything. So if P. Gingivalis exasperates inflammation within the brain and amyloid lives outside of the brain cells and tau is inside in the axon of the brain cells. So if you're saying it can actually be seep through and lodge in the cerebral spinal fluid where the amyloid plaque is, but also get in to the cell itself, that's scary.
- [30:08]
B
Yeah. And this is where the, you know, again, as I mentioned, the Interleukin 1, Interleukin 6, TNF Alpha, these are causing issues. And so it is creating an inflammatory cascade and it is something that we need to consider when we're having these discussions is again, how important oral health is for optimization and longevity.
- [30:30]
A
I think that's really important as well because to note, because now that we can test for it, then we can stop it and mitigate it and everything there is. I, I don't even know how to explain it. I don't think I have the words or the sentences to explain that. You're you. If you've got so many insults that are happening, you want to try and it's not like take care of periodontal disease, then you might want. You won't get cognitive decline. No, but if you've got like a force coming at you every single day, then, you know, if there's 10 forces, if we can eliminate one, then that's, that's doing.
- [31:02]
B
That's exactly right. Yes, I totally agree with you. You know, I tell patients, floss for Alzheimer's prevention. That's how I want you to think of it. Don't do it because I'm nagging at you. Do it because you want a healthy brain and you want appropriate cognition as you age and for your lifespan. It's kind of an easy thing to achieve. You know, it's a low cost, no cost protocol. I think a lot of it is just education about why it's important. I think that's the issue. So many people don't understand why oral hygiene, why diet, why seeing the dentist regularly is so important. But when you start talking about brain health or sexual health, erectile dysfunction can be, you know, tied back to the mouth. Fertility, cancer, these get people's attention.
- [31:52]
A
I think another thing that got my attention was the increased risk of strokes.
- [31:58]
B
Yes, yes. Two and a half times more likely to have stroke if you have active periodontal disease, which is significant, you know, but people don't have this information. And, you know, whenever I hear someone having an episode or maybe a negative health outcome, and people say they were so healthy, they ran every day, they ate so well. I always think, what was their oral health like? You know, there are so many patients and humans out there that don't see the dentist regularly, that do have periodontal disease and they don't even realize it. Over 50% of the global population has some form of gum disease and some studies show as high as 80%. That's, that's huge. And for something that's quite preventative, with the right tools in the toolkit and just the right knowledge. So I think we, I hope that people start taking, they listen to these podcasts and start really prioritizing their oral health. You know, dentistry is the brunt of the joke very often, and people don't like going. And I understand why, but I really want people looking at it differently.
- [33:10]
A
Yeah. I want to keep talking about chronic diseases, which sounds morbid. Right. And so we've done. We've looked at the link between our oral health and Alzheimer's disease and brain health to a small extent. You've also spoken about cancer, and we speak about cancer a lot on this podcast. I've seen some great. Some great data on the effects of exercise on cancer mitigation prevention and therapies, et cetera. What is the link between oral health and cancer?
- [33:45]
B
And this is more causal based on the research now, but we're finding specific bacteria.
- [33:51]
A
Could you tell us what causal? Because we keep saying these words, and I realize maybe a lot of people don't realize in academic medicine what the different things are.
- [33:57]
B
Sure. So the thing we're speaking of, it can actually be said to cause is the issue. It may not just be a component of it. So it's more definitive that we are pretty confident. Right. Of course, it's science. So nothing's 100% for sure, but that this. This is. These are linked. Yeah. Okay. Without question. So F. Nucleatum in particular is a bacteria in the mouth you don't want a lot of. And I'm going to tell you a story about it in a moment. But F. Nucleatum is linked to colon cancer. Now think again. Swallowing 2,000 times a day. Okay. And pancreatic cancer and even breast cancer. And so obviously we need more research, but here's the story I want to share. So there is someone really special in my life that I. She's 80 and she is fit as a fiddle. She can outplank anyone. She plays pickleball seven days a week. She's the epitome of health. But I said, I want to oral microbiome test you. And so we did. Why? Because I wanted to make sure that we could have her as optimized as possible for as long as possible. And I can tell, looking at her, that maybe there's some periodontal issues and things. So she goes into the dentist regularly. Great checkups. Okay. We tested her oral microbiome. She was through the roof with F. Nucleatum. She wouldn't know that.
- [35:23]
A
Is that the same as. Is that another pathogen just like P. Gingivalla?
- [35:26]
B
Yes. And it's the one that's linked often with Cancer. Okay. How would she know that if we hadn't tested? Because she's going into the dentist regularly. Great checkup. She has no pain, she feels healthy, she flosses and brushes, eats well. But if we can, if we have this knowledge, I treated her and, you know, maybe that will prevent something down the road for her, that we can extend her life because we have the knowledge to be preventative. So this is preventative medicine, you know, so I do encourage everyone to test the oral microbiome. I know you're very data driven. You're sharing that. You were doing all these labs and these workups. I mean, I'm a true believer in information is power. And if we could test our oral microbiomes in our treatment 30s and 40s, and we could see we're headed towards a pathogenic state and addressed it and get it back to a state of balance, I mean, what would that mean for our health? Into our 50s, 60s and 70s?
- [36:26]
A
Yeah. And correct me if I'm wrong, everything is asymptomatic.
- [36:29]
B
Acute gum disease can sometimes be bothersome, tender and sore to the touch and bleeding. And patients will come in saying, my mouth hurts. And it's, it's, it's actually gum disease. But once it goes from an acute state to a chronic state, it lays pretty dormant. And patients don't know. And this is why, you know, you hear of patients losing teeth, getting dentures, like they, they don't know what's happening to their bone health, to their gum health, unless they are seeing a dentist regularly or hygienist and then also testing as well. And I mean, by the time it gets to that stage, that's end stage disease. There's nothing you can do. So we really want to take a more upstream approach team.
- [37:11]
A
On this show, we talk a lot about performance, how your brain works, how your body moves, and how you optimize both. And the one thing I've noticed is whenever I have a clinician in healthcare, you know, like a surgeon or a neurologist, chances are they're wearing figs, and it makes sense. So figs are scrubs and they're made for modern medicine. They're super comfortable, functional, and thoughtfully designed. I got my first pair of figs scrubs back in 2019. Oh, my God. I thought I was just it. I was working in urology. I loved them so much. The reason being is because they are designed with their proprietary fabric, which is called Pheon X. And it's engineered with purpose and backed by science. It's made with durable twill and it features silver door and this helps prevent odour and bacteria and it keeps you cool with moisture wicking breathable fabric. And the best thing about it is it's entirely wrinkle free. So you put it in the dryer, it comes out wrinkle free. So when you're working 12 hour shifts, these details really matter. What I love most is that Figs sets themselves apart with intelligent designs because on their pockets they've got insertions for stethoscopes and trauma shears, adjustable draw cords. It's amazing. And they're super comfortable. With back to school season upon us, it's the perfect time to stock up with some fresh outfits for the year. And Figs just dropped their new collection of limited edition styles and accessories. So if you're in healthcare or you're shopping for someone who is, you can get 15% off your first FIGS order at wefigs.com use code FIGSRX to get that 15% off. That's where figs.com code figsrx team many of you listening to this know how excited and bullish I am around honey. My uncle in Cyprus has a honey farm, so I pretty much grew up surrounded by it. And this is where I learned about honey's powerful longevity benefits. But it wasn't until about 10 years ago that I discovered that Manuka honey is even better, especially for immunity. So I have recently come across Manukura honey and it's honestly blown every other honey out of the water. It's rich, it's creamy, it's delicious. But beyond that, it's packed with powerful nutrients to support, support immunity and gut health. What sets Manukaura apart is their meticulous ethical production. So their master beekeepers harvest this amazing honey from the remote forests of New Zealand. This is where bees gather nectar from the native Manuka tea tree. That nectar is loaded with bioactives and Manukura honey has three times more antioxidants and prebiotics than regular honey. Plus it has a powerful antibacterial compound called mgo. And every batch is third party tested. You know I love third party testing with results transparently available through a simple QR code to scan. I believe in this product so much, I have it every single day. They even have sachets. I take the sachets with me on the go and I'm never without my Manukura honey. So if you want to experience this or even taste it, Manukura has made it easier than ever. Just head over to manukura.com neuro to save up to 31% and get $25 worth of free gifts in your starter kit, including an MGO 850 manuka honey jar. You'll also get five travel sticks and a wooden spoon. Guys, that is M A N U k o r a.com neuro 31% off plus $25 worth of gifts. Pancreatic cancer is, is very scary. It's actually how I lost my grandmother and she was my best friend. And that, that word really scares me because it's asymptomatic. And I remember at the end stages she just felt really sick. I was like, you know, I told mom, I said, we have to take her to the hospital. And we found out. And then it was fast track, like four, five weeks. And I think I, I'm dating back almost, that's 18 years now since that. And I didn't know anything back then. I was young. I always think, oh my God, if we just had this, if we just knew this back then. I'm not understanding the clear path of that, of it being causative of this bacteria or pathogen being causative in that way. Is it just back to inflammation again?
- [41:55]
B
It's inflammation. It's inflammation. It's all inflammation.
- [41:59]
A
I'm looking at everything in pathogenesis, mechanisms.
- [42:04]
B
Absolutely. I mean, what they're doing is they're studying, they're doing biopsies postmortem and they're finding oral bacteria.
- [42:12]
A
Pancreas ascending.
- [42:14]
B
Yeah.
- [42:14]
A
Yes.
- [42:15]
B
And they're finding oral bacteria. It has no business being there. And then around there they can, they can study and see the, the inflammatory markers and things of that nature as well.
- [42:23]
A
And that would be the path as well for breast cancer.
- [42:26]
B
Yes, exactly. Jesus Christ. But then also breast cancer. This is controversial, but failing dental work could potentially be a vector as well. So imagine if you had a failing root canal on your lower teeth, your mandible, but it's asymptomatic, which most failing root canals are asymptomatic, which is why if you have root canals, I'm not necessarily anti root canal, but I want everyone getting their root canals checked appropriately. And you can't do that with a 2D X ray. You need three dimensional imaging, a CBCT. Okay. So much pathology is missed because it's asymptomatic and it doesn't show up on a standard X ray. And so that can be a point of infection. Bacteria, viruses, fungal infections that then are just draining into the lymphatic system causing chronic inflammation in the body. The body's just. Just putting everything towards us, and it's from a tooth in your mouth. And so taking your dental exams seriously, too, and trying to work with those that are looking big, you know, and looking at the big picture, we're going.
- [43:37]
A
To keep moving on, and. And we're going to now move into fertility. And you also mentioned menopause, which I'd love to just talk. Let's focus on the ladies for a moment here.
- [43:47]
B
It's important to understand there are estrogen and progesterone receptors in your gum tissue.
- [43:51]
A
Oh, gosh. My. My God. Bing.
- [43:54]
B
So think about puberty and then pregnancy and then perimenopause, menopause. So puberty kids will come in a lot of times with inflamed gums, okay? And they get shamed by their dentist. You need a brush and floss more. Why aren't you doing a good job? And, I mean, I work with teens. I know this, and they'll say, I am. I'm doing a great job. I'm trying so hard. Dr. But it's from their hormones. It's puberty. It's causing inflammation because of these receptors. And then the same with pregnancy. There's pregnancy gingivitis. It can affect as many as 75% of women. But we've also, collectively, as an industry, made women afraid to go to the dentist when they're pregnant. So what's the right messaging here? The new messaging is, ladies, I want you to see the dentist more frequently when you're pregnant, going in more frequently for cleanings, and optimizing ourselves nutritionally. Vitamin C, collagen, protein B vitamins, zinc. But with pregnancy, it's tricky, you know, and so the hormones do need to stabilize and normalize, and eventually it should go away. But it can also impact, you know, relaxin, can impact collagen and ligaments. And so we have a periodontal ligament around our teeth. So a lot of women will say, my teeth shifted during pregnancy or they got a little loose. And that makes sense because those ligaments were impacted. And then we head into perimenopause, menopause. And so many women have issues with dry mouth, burning tongue, again, gum disease, and TMD and tmj. And think of collagen. So low progesterone can impact collagen synthesis, and we can get inflammation of the gums even with beautiful hygiene. And so just like everything else we're speaking of with perimeter menopause and menopause, imagine if we were testing these women early on Doing hormone panels, DEXA scans, et cetera, and doing all the lifestyle corrections. But then maybe do they need to be on hormone replacement therapy? Will that help their. Their gum health? And then maybe prevent periodontal disease down the road and. And help them with other symptoms like headaches, migraines, the temporomandibular joint issues? So it's all connected, you know, and we can't take for granted that how responsible hormones are for our oral health as well, and vice versa. And this is where fertility comes into play again as well.
- [46:34]
A
How often should you do an oral microbiome spit test?
- [46:37]
B
I recommend annually, I would say, or at least every other year, assuming it comes back normal. So if it comes back dysbiotic, generally it can take three to six months of a protocol to see a shift. So you'll want to retest, just like we do with a lot of testing. You want to get your results, you want to make changes and have a strategy and protocols, and you want to retest to see did this work? What else do I need to work on? So if that's the case, obviously you should be testing more until you find a level of harmony in the bacteria and a level of balance. Now, I have access to these things, right? So. But just like I. I test myself fairly regularly, probably more than the average person, but I think annual blood work and annual microbiome testing and annual just workups is really important because things can change without you even knowing.
- [47:30]
A
I wonder if this also affects conception.
- [47:33]
B
Oh, yes, absolutely. Yes.
- [47:35]
A
We spoke about that earlier. People, it's the two months they find it.
- [47:39]
B
Yeah, that's right. It can take, on average, two months longer. Yes.
- [47:42]
A
Okay.
- [47:43]
B
Which people will say, oh, that's no big deal. But, I mean, first of all, this is the initial study. We need more research. But imagine if you're a couple really struggling, that can make a big difference for you. And not to mention, if it is coming back to the mouth, what other things is that oral health imbalance causing in your body? You know, it's increasing your risk of all the other things we spoke of.
- [48:04]
A
I have a feeling that as this area of medicine advances in the next 10 years, we'll see the correlative data between oral health and depression.
- [48:15]
B
Oh, yes. Well, it's already there.
- [48:16]
A
Oh, really?
- [48:17]
B
I mean, to some degree, absolutely. You know, think of the importance of our gut with mood disorders, too. So imagine if we're swallowing dysbiotic bacteria that's impacting the gut microbiome, that's impacting neurotransmitters. You know. And inflammation, too, of course. Yeah.
- [48:38]
A
So now we're gonna move into some fun things, in my opinion.
- [48:42]
B
Okay.
- [48:42]
A
Not so morbid. If you guys want to switch over to YouTube and watch this, I've brought my oral health toolkit. Right. So I am religiously using this. I never used to use this. Okay. It's a. I'm holding an electric toothbrush. An oral B electric toothbrush. I was introduced to it, I would say, one year ago.
- [49:03]
B
Okay.
- [49:04]
A
I cannot go back. I don't know what my life was manually. I just cannot go back. So that's what I'm using.
- [49:10]
B
Amazing.
- [49:11]
A
I don't know if you want to call it ocd. I'm from Australia. Okay. Originally. But I've been in the US for 10 years.
- [49:17]
B
I don't know what it is I.
- [49:19]
A
Always need to have. I got this from Australia. I just got back from Australia. By the way, Colgate, it's blue. I don't know why. I just always need to have blue. That just tastes better. I don't know if that's just a thing. I'm using that. I'm always flossing. Okay. I use this oral B glide all in one mint floss. And Stacy's just done something with her eyes, so I feel like that's wrong. And constantly chewing this. Not because I have bad breath. No one's ever said that. But I'm very wary. I speak to people all the time, and I'm out on the road a lot. So this is. Break it down for me.
- [49:57]
B
All right, let's start with a toothbrush. Can I hold them?
- [49:59]
A
Sure. I'm going to change my head for everybody wondering.
- [50:02]
B
Oh, yeah, you're good. Okay. So oral B. I do like an electric toothbrush, and I agree. Once you don't know what you don't know. I. I like Sonicare. I like the sonic technology of it. But Oral B and Sonicare are very well regarded in the data and the research for disrupting the biofilm, which is plaque, and for creating a healthier microbiome. So this I give an A plus.
- [50:29]
A
Okay, good.
- [50:30]
B
Okay.
- [50:30]
A
You can see the bristles have kind of deviated.
- [50:33]
B
Yeah. And so it's important to change your bristles regularly. So they will. If you looked under a microscope or an electron microscope, you will see that the ends of the bristles will fray, and they can become sharp if you don't change them regularly. And that can damage your enamel. And some people have a lot of sensitivity, and it could be from not changing your bristles enough. And so you'll hear an average. Most dentist will say every three months. I think it just depends how you brush. And I think most people brush too hard, too aggressively. You're scrubbing.
- [51:07]
A
I feel like I need a scrub.
- [51:08]
B
No. Okay. Paint brushstroke. Gentle and delicate. You really shouldn't have much biofilm if you're eating the foods that we spoke of earlier. So a more paleo diet, if you will. I'm not advocating for any diet. Everyone do what's right for them. But if you eat a lot of fermental carbohydrates, the, the breads and the pastas and the crackers and the chips, you're going to have more of a biofilm because you're feeding those pathogens and they can proliferate more easily. So anyway, yeah, I approve of this, but we change your head.
- [51:41]
A
Yeah. Yet. We'll change the head yet. That's getting changed tonight. Okay. My Colgate Max fresh cool mint blue.
- [51:50]
B
Okay. May I see it?
- [51:52]
A
I'm also an oral B Blue.
- [51:55]
B
Okay.
- [51:55]
A
Yeah.
- [51:56]
B
So I'm generally not a huge Colgate fan. And so what's. This is what drives me nuts. So the ingredients are not on the tube. It was probably on the box. And you throw the box away.
- [52:08]
A
It's the first thing do.
- [52:10]
B
So generally, these toothpaste have sodium lauryl sulfate in it. That's a foaming agent. Okay. That can be very disruptive to the oral microbiome and it can irritate oral mucosa. And some people, quite a few people actually, are very reactive to it, and it will increase oral ulcerations. So if you are out there and you get a lot of oral ulcers, the first thing I want to. To know about is your toothpaste. And are you using a toothpaste with sodium lauryl sulfate, which. So people know it's essentially was used originally as a floor cleaner. So it's foaming. So just like I think we, we know, many of us ladies especially, we've moved toward cleaner shampoos. Right. We're shampooing our, our hair less often. We don't want a lot of that foaming agent because it can be stripping and disruptive. It's just something to consider. Now this is a mindset shift and it takes time to move away from it. But that foaming isn't great.
- [53:10]
A
I always thought it was good. I'm like, yes, these.
- [53:13]
B
Okay. It's think of it like it's damaging your oral microbiome. Okay. Everything is. Now we're thinking about our oral microbiome. So the other thing most of these have in them, this could have triclosan. I just need to see the ingredients. I don't know what Coley's done now. Now, there are no fly zone ingredients that are disruptive to the oral microbiome. Strong essential oils, too. So the burning sensation that so many of us crave is likely carpet bomb in your mouth. So these things are not selective. They will wipe out bad bacteria, but also the good bacteria. And unfortunately, bad bacteria tend to be more resilient and virulent. So if you wipe out the good bacteria, it actually can make more of the pathogenic bacteria come back. And this is why we almost get addicted to these things. We need them because we end up in a state of dysbiosis and we get bad breath, and it just becomes this vicious cycle. So I don't love Colgate and Crest and some of the more common toothpaste. The blue, too. It's a dye. What is that doing to your oral microbiome? I don't know. I haven't seen studies on that. But I would be interested in the data.
- [54:28]
A
So what toothpaste should I be using?
- [54:30]
B
There's a lot of cool brands out there now that are trying to clean up. You want a remineralizer. So this has fluoride in it. Fluoride is considered a neurotoxin. I think topically we're fine. That's just how it's a personal preference. Okay. Especially if you're spitting. But there are alternatives if people are concerned. So hydroxyapatite is a great one. Theobromine. But I do want people to have a remineralizer in their toothpaste, whether it's fluoride, hydroxy, optite, theobromine. Okay. But I look for ones that don't have sodium lauryl sulfate, that ideally don't have essential oils. You know, they're not foaming and burning. And this can. There can be a transition period. So just like if you ever switched off a more traditional deodorant or change your shampoo, there can be a time period of transition and acclimation and that a lot of people will experience that when they go to, let's say, just a cleaner time. Toothpaste. It takes a little while to get used to it, but I want you to stick with it because that's your oral microbiome re establishing to where it's supposed to be, where it's not getting carpet bombed, essentially, with chemicals every day. BOCA is kind of the OG that started in 2015 B Oka okay. They use nano hydroxyapatite. They still use essential oils but it's a very good choice. Rise well is a toothpaste I really love as well they use micro hydroxyapatite or nano hydroxyapatite which is a remineralizer. They've removed a lot of these ingredients too. And then full disclosure, I had my own toothpaste brand because I saw a hole in the market and I wanted I loved these cleaner brands so I felt they still weren't totally focused on the oral microbiome and so I helped co launch it's called called Fig F Y G G Feed your good guys.
- [56:21]
A
Oh I love that.
- [56:22]
B
And part of our whole premise was that we wanted to take out everything that could disrupt the microbiome and then we put in prebiotics and amino acids to boost the healthy bacteria.
- [56:34]
A
Does it taste good?
- [56:35]
B
I think it tastes great.
- [56:37]
A
Is it minty?
- [56:38]
B
It is a mild mint.
- [56:40]
A
Mild mint, yeah.
- [56:41]
B
I will say that's probably the biggest point of feedback we get is people still want to that strong men and so we do. We actually have a newer formulation coming out soon that will be a little bit more for the adult population, but it's still not using essential oils. We didn't want to use those strong burning essential oils but we have many different flavors and we have comparative studies that show it works just as well as fluoride toothpaste. So that's what a lot of people are worried about. We need to dismiss that idea. There are things out there that work just as well as fluoride if you're not concerned with that. But I'm trying to think of other brands I really like. People will see David's on the shelf. That's a pretty decent one. But just the problem is some of these are expensive, you know, more expensive for people. So I would just do the best you can, you know, do the best you can. And truly if you're optimized, I mean Paul Saladino isn't incorrect that you could just brush with coconut oil or water and baking soda if you wanted to. You know, if, if that was something you wanted to save money on.
- [57:46]
A
Team I want to talk to you about something that is very, very special and important to me. Therapy has been one of the most impactful tools of my life. But let's be real. Finding a therapist who's available, affordable and takes your insurance can feel impossible. That's why I'm a fan of Ruler. Ruler is a healthcare company that makes mental health care simple. They partner with over 15,000 providers such as licensed therapists and psychiatrists nationwide. And because they take major insurance, patients typically pay about 15 a session, sometimes even less. That's insane. It's super easy. Answer a few questions, get matched with a vetted provider and you can have your very first appointment as soon as the next day. And Ruler doesn't just connect you and leave you. You'll have an ongoing support to make sure you're making progress with your care. Thousands of people are already using Ruler to improve their mental health and you can too. Just visit rula.comneuro to get started today. That is R-U-L-A.comneuro hey team, let's be honest. We've all got that spot in the house that feels like pure comfort for me. It's my bed and the couch. And I'll be honest, ever since switching to cosy Earth sheets it is so hard to get up off the couch. These sheets are made from viscose from bamboo and what makes them different is how they naturally regulate temperature. I always say that in order to fall asleep and stay asleep, our core body temperature needs to drop at least 2 degrees. Ever since switching to these, I sleep several degrees cooler. No overheating, no tossing and no turning. And when I really want to retreat, I reach for their bubble Cuddle blanket. It's got this textured ultra soft feel that just makes you melt into the couch or bed. Honestly, it's it's my best friend during the winter months. The best part is Cozy Earth takes the risk out of it. You get a 100 night sleep trial so if you don't fall in love with them, you can return them hassle free. And they're backed by a 10 year warranty which tells you everything you need to know about their quality. Your bed should be more than a place to crash, it should be your place of happiness. Cozy Earth makes that possible. If you want to try these out that because I know we're going to be heading into winter very soon, head to cozyearth.com and use my code NEURO to get 40% off. That's cozyearth.com code NEURO for 40% off. And if you see the survey after checkout, let them know you heard about Cozy Earth here. So let's now move into where you raised your eyebrows. My oral B floss.
- [60:19]
B
Yeah, that's a hard no. This one's a hard no. I'm going to tell you why so you after we record you're going to go look this up. But this is the highest brand in PFAS and microplastics, essentially. So that gliding that we love, and I get it, how does it. Why is it gliding? What's on it? It's plastic. Okay. So I prefer silk floss or bamboo. Those are cleaner floss.
- [60:47]
A
I can get those anywhere.
- [60:49]
B
Amazon on.
- [60:50]
A
Is it just bamboo floss or is that a brand?
- [60:53]
B
It just you. You want it made of silk or bamboo. Okay. Essentially this is plastic. Now the problem is some people have crowded teeth and those types of floss shred. And that is a bummer. I totally understand. So you also could water pick.
- [61:08]
A
Yeah, I heard about water picking. My. My best friend just got one.
- [61:12]
B
Yeah. So I like it, especially as we get older. So floss is really cleaning the biofilm from the edges of the teeth. It's kind of scraping the teeth, but as we age, we all lose a little bit of bone. And so we kind of have these pockets where the floss really isn't going to get in there and clean out the bacteria appropriately. And that's where a blast of water can really help. So what I do, I'm in my 40s, I like to alternate. So one night I'll traditional string floss and the next night I water pick. String floss, water pick and water picking will become your best friend. If you are are trying to utilize a protocol because you have pathogenic bacteria, a lot of the protocols call for different things in the reservoir. So you might do water and as I mentioned, grapefruit seed extract. You might do water and tea tree oil or water and oregano, et cetera, just to help break down the biofilm and eradicate the pathogenic bacteria too.
- [62:05]
A
And should you be flossing before or after you brush your teeth at night?
- [62:09]
B
Great question. And this is nuance. I mean, I want everyone doing what works for them because oral hygiene can be so hard for so many, especially flossing. So I just want to make sure that's clear. Do what works for you. But there is some research to say flossing first and then brushing. And that's what I do. And it kind of makes sense. You're loosening the biofilm and dislodging food and then you kind of go and brush it away. Okay, okay, yeah. This is something important. Why do we brush and floss? Especially floss? Everyone thinks it's food and they'll say, I don't get food stuck in my teeth. It's not food, it's bacteria. So pathogenic bacteria, they're anaerobic. They don't love oxygen. Where do they hide out? In between your teeth. That's where they like to take take root. So brushing alone isn't enough. You need to get in there and clean out the biofilm from between your teeth too.
- [63:00]
A
Okay, now my extra long lasting flavor. Peppermint.
- [63:05]
B
Yeah. May I see that too? I think I'm okay with this. Does it have xylit. Oh, sorbitol. Yeah, I'm okay with this. I really like if you're on the go and you can't floss and brush, which I agree with you, you can't do these things. Every time you eat a little quick piece of gum, it increases salivary flow. It's going to dislodge food. It's great. I like xylitol because there is a lot of data on it acts as a prebiotic, but it also helps change the way the bacteria create their biofilm. And basically it can kill bad bacteria, essentially. That being said, I worry about people who are habitual chronic gum chewers because think of your joint. So we are not meant to be chewing all day. The human jaw didn't develop that way evolutionarily. We're meant to just eat for sustenance and then carry on. So just be cautious of that. I don't like too much chewing.
- [64:03]
A
Well, thank you for breaking that down. Things are definitely going to change in my place. I really want to ask you about natural things. And by natural I'm talking about baking soda, hydrogen peroxide, salt rinses, and what's the go with oil pulling?
- [64:17]
B
Yeah.
- [64:18]
A
With coconut oil. Is this a thing?
- [64:20]
B
Yeah. Okay, let me break them all down. Where do we want to start?
- [64:23]
A
Oil pulling? Because I got into that.
- [64:25]
B
I love it.
- [64:26]
A
I didn't like it.
- [64:27]
B
Oh, you didn't like it.
- [64:28]
A
Let's see.
- [64:28]
B
Listen, not everything works for everyone. So it's an ancient Ayurvedic practice. It traditionally used sesame oil, but now most people. I agree, most people use raw organic coconut oil. Coconut oil has lauric acid in it, which is antimicrobial, which is great. But we also don't want to overdo it because it could damage your healthy bacteria too. But you know, they usually will say, you need an oil pull for 20 minutes. No one has time for that. I mean, if you do, God bless you, but I will oil pull a few times a week. In the morning when I first wake up, I sometimes force myself into things because I think they're good for me. You know, I get it why people don't love it because you have to Put kind of a chunk of coconut oil in your mouth and let it melt and you swish it. Don't spit it down the drain. It could clog your drain. Exactly. But it, what is it doing? It's dislodging the biofilm. Coconut oil can have a brightening and whitening, whitening effect. And it can disrupt bacteria colonization as well. So, you know, you'll hear people say it detoxifies and all these things. There's no science behind that, but it just feels good to me. I don't love traditional mouthwash. And we can go into that right now. So there's a lot of data right now that shows traditional mouthwash with alcohol and astringents, they're carpet bombing the mouth, mouth, and in particular they're damaging the nitric oxide producing bacteria which reside on our tongue. Okay. And there are studies that show people who habitually use things like Listerine and all these other brands, they can have high blood pressure, they can have erectile dysfunction. So I think this is out on social media now and out in the, in the world, but we really want, want to move away from that. And if you find that you have such bad breath that you need something like that, I want to say you're masking your body from telling you something. If you're, if you have halitosis or, or breath that is that bad, you probably have periodontal disease, you probably have periodontal pathogens. Maybe your mouth breathing, maybe you have gut dysbiosis. That's where bad breath can come from. Up from the gut, it can come down from the sinus. Tonsil stones. You might have an infection in a tooth you're unaware of. So that odor is telling you something. We need to listen to that. Okay. Anyway, because I don't want to be using that type of rinse, but occasionally I like to rinse with something I do like coconut oil. We could. That's a great segue into baking soda rinses.
- [67:00]
A
Yeah.
- [67:02]
B
So baking soda is an amazing low cost, I would argue you almost no cost thing to do because it has a very low dentinal abrasivity index so it won't damage your enamel. Okay. And particularly if you make it into a liquid, you're just switching with it, but it does buffer or neutralize the mouth. So it's going to make your mouth go from acidic to either neutral or maybe even alkaline. And pathogenic bacteria cannot live in that, that ph environment. So you add a little sprinkle of salt, that's antiseptic. And that can also help with gum health and tissue integrity too. And this is. It does really promote healing as well.
- [67:45]
A
Water?
- [67:46]
B
Yeah, sure.
- [67:47]
A
Personal preference, like a couple times a week. We're not talking like every single day.
- [67:51]
B
You could do that daily. You could do that daily at any.
- [67:55]
A
Time of the day. That's so interesting.
- [67:57]
B
Yes. Baking soda rinses and add some salt or it's an incredible, incredible tool in your toolkit. Hydrogen peroxide can be very disruptive to the microbiome. So people like it because it will brighten and whiten your teeth. And this is all over TikTok. And I do worry people are overdoing it. And again, what is this doing long term to their microbiome? So I say use it cautiously and infrequently. So I would, I would only use it maybe once or twice a week. It's great if you have an acute issue. Okay. But I wouldn't use it daily if you're healthy. And again, I know some people like it for its whitening effects. But just be know what the, the risk benefit scenario is with that. You could be stripping your microbiome and then it can cause sensitivity in some people too. So you want to dilute it and just be smart about it.
- [68:46]
A
I think I can get on board with the, the baking soda.
- [68:49]
B
Yeah, it's great. How easy is that?
- [68:51]
A
It's so easy.
- [68:52]
B
You can put it in your water pick too.
- [68:53]
A
Oh my gosh. Okay.
- [68:54]
B
Little trick. And then you had asked about tongue scraping.
- [68:58]
A
Yeah, that's on my.
- [68:59]
B
So this is another ancient Ayurvedic practice. And people will ask, what can I use? Copper or stainless steel is preferred. Then people always ask, can I just use my toothbrush?
- [69:11]
A
Well, what's the point of scraping your tongue?
- [69:13]
B
Yeah, so it's removing the biofilm from the dorsal surface. The surface of your tongue. Okay. And so that can remove bacteria, viruses, candida, food particles. So you actually will taste. Your taste buds will be fresher. It really does help with that. But what's interesting is so the bacteria in our mouth that help with the nitrate reducing pathway which eventually leads to nitric oxide, they hang out on the tongue and they actually live in the deep crypts of the tongue. But more on the surface of the tongue are the pathogens. So you're scraping not only food particles, but pathogenic bacteria too. And you can do this daily. Don't do it too hard. Be smart about it. You don't want to hurt your taste buds and your tissue. But I'm a big advocate. It's One of those things. Don't knock it till you try it. And once you do it, just like other things you mentioned, you can. You can't go back. So I do. I really recommend it. And I. People always ask, when do you do these things? I'm not that religious with some of my oral hygiene. You know, I will oil pull in the morning and then maybe tongue scrape also. But sometimes if I forgot to tongue scrape in the morning, I'll do it at night. I do it first before I floss or brush, though.
- [70:38]
A
You've said something. I don't know if this is right. Geographic tongue. Yeah, something. What. What is that? That?
- [70:44]
B
Yeah, geographic tongue is. If so, your tongue. Our tongue tells us a lot. And there's something called Chinese medicine. And indentations on the tongue. Indentations can be a sign of sleep apnea. It can be a sign of cardiovascular issues. So the indentations can happen if your jaws are too small and your tongue's too large, it's pushing out and it's causing these indentations. So if I see that, I always think, ooh, I need to do an airway evaluation on this patient. I wonder what their cardiovascular health is.
- [71:11]
A
This.
- [71:12]
B
But if you work with naturopaths, too, they'll often say, stick your tongue out. You know, is it red? Is it burning? Is it patchy? Anyway, okay, so geographic tongue is when there will be spots or usually what many describe as bald spots. Most dentists will say it's benign. I don't disagree with that, but I want to dig deeper. So again, the mouth is the gut. It's one tube. So if this is happening on the tongue, what's happening down in the gut? And so there are times with geographic tongue and Crohn's disease, celiac gluten intolerance, you know, ibs, okay, Even sibo, to some degree. It is correlated with sensitivities to avocado psoriasis, latex allergy. It can be a sign of nutritional deficiencies. So B vitamins, zinc, and sometimes this. This overlays with burning tongue, too. So we do need to unpack that. I don't want to just ignore it and say, oh, it's nothing. It could be something more. I don't want people to worry about it. But imagine if it is a nutritional deficiency. We address that. And then it went away because it is annoying. I am fortunate enough I've never experienced it, but they report that citrus is really overpowering. And, like tomato sauce, stings and burns a lot. So it can be a little uncomfortable.
- [72:34]
A
You've given us so much information today. What's the underlying thing you want to tell everyone?
- [72:38]
B
I want people to really think that health starts in the mouth and not to take their oral health for granted and to prioritize it as part of their daily protocol. You know, I think so many of us, and I'm sure people that are listening to your podcast are health forward. We have these protocols and these things we do every day. But if you're ignoring your oral health, you will never achieve the end goal that you're looking for.
- [73:04]
A
You are phenomenal. Thank you so much, Stacey, for coming onto the podcast.
- [73:09]
B
Thank you. It was wonderful.