← The Neuro Experience
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- [00:00]
A
Thing I tell everybody is stop selling. It's disingenuous. What you want to do is have a human connection with people. You want to find your ethos, your way of being. So when they say, here's some tips or tricks or technique. Do you like it when people use tips and tricks on you? Would you like it if I use a technique on you? Nobody likes that. People feel it when you do it. That's why when somebody's going to go out and buy a car, how many people like to go buy cars they don't want to deal with? No offense to my car salesman out there, but they don't want to deal with that. Or sometimes you go to a store, it's hi, can I help you? People are, no, no, I'm fine. Because you don't want to deal with that because you know that they're just trying to sell you something. So what I try to teach is have a human connection with people. That is what works. Be genuine. If you can create an authentic human connection, then people will want to work with you, buy from you, do things with you guys.
- [00:49]
B
Huge announcement. We have our Neuro Athletics coaching certificate coming up in New York City on August 26th and 27th. And now we are capping this at 20 people. So I'm so excited to do this. If you are a coach, a physical therapist, a chiropractor, personal trainer or a physician and you are looking at understanding more about human performance. Brain optimization. We go into sleep physiology, exercise and brain health. Nutrients for supplementation. We look at wearable data and how you can track and measure the performance of your athletes or your clients or your patients using wearable data. This is a two day interactive course. Day one will be solely focused on getting through the theory part of the modules. Then day two. Oh my gosh, day two is going to be absolutely phenomenal. We've had now over 350 US trainers go through this and I'm so excited to bring this to New York City for one last time. This, this year in 2023. I'm going to link everything below, go through, check it out and if you'd like to learn more, you can book a call with one of our sales team. Evie, welcome to the Neuro Experience podcast.
- [02:03]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [02:04]
B
This is so special. I've got so much to talk to you about, but a lot of people probably don't know just how incredible you are. Former Secret Service agent, former law enforcement journalist, interrogator, and your Greek.
- [02:22]
A
Yes.
- [02:22]
B
So that makes it even more exciting.
- [02:24]
A
More special.
- [02:25]
B
More special. I want to start by understanding what your mission is.
- [02:31]
A
My mission, I think, I guess mission varies over different phases in our lives. But I think my overall mission has always been to serve. Always. Even now, when I work with people and I do a lot of public speaking, when I get up on the stage or when I present, my first words out of my mouth are, I'm here to serve you. So I think from law enforcement to what I do today, even when I work in television and I'm doing a news piece or I'm doing a segment for the History Channel, whatever episode I'm working on or show I'm working on, I always think, how am I serving the person on the other side, the listener? So, yes, I think my mission has always been how can I serve?
- [03:14]
B
How did you start? Like, how does one get into this field that you're in?
- [03:21]
A
The law enforcement field?
- [03:22]
B
Yeah.
- [03:23]
A
Honestly, I don't even know. It was not a path that I thought I'd take. I was that person that, you know, the cops pulled over when growing up in New York. That was a little bit of a wise ass.
- [03:31]
B
Yeah.
- [03:32]
A
Why are you pulling me over? What did I do? And so I never looked at law enforcement in a positive light. And so it's funny how the world kind of flips things around on you. Where I ended up going into the nypd almost pretty much. I went from college to the nypd. I always wanted to help people. I wanted to do something bigger and meaningful. I was definitely not cut out to be in an office. I had worked, I had worked so many part time jobs. I mean, you name it, I did it. As soon as I could start working legally in New York, I was a waitress. I worked selling makeup, I worked selling clothes. I worked in an administrative, like it was called the Secretary back then. Now we don't call it that. So I've done everything you could think of, but I think somehow organically or maybe a pull took me to the nypd. And I remember I just saw this police officer one day on the street. I was like, I could do what he does. Yes. Because then I was actually on the train going to this new job I had just gotten right out of college at this, this big company, this organization, this insurance company. And it was like, it's really big, prestigious organization. It was AIG and I, they were very gracious to take me on because I had no knowledge in what they did, but they hired me. And I remember sitting at that cubicle working numbers and doing different things, thinking I Can't do this. And so that one day, one day I was on the train going to work and the subway doors open because it was all the way downtown by where the World Trade center was. And I see this police officer hanging out, his guts, you know, his big belly hanging out. Back then it was a little bit different. And I thought to myself, I could do what he does, I could help people. And that night I went to the home and I called 212 recruit, because back then you would call and I said, you guys hiring? And so he said, yes, come take the test. And it was a very, kind of, a little bit impulsive, but it really took me down the path of serving others, protecting, helping. And I always had that intuitively growing up. And it just. One thing led to another, led to another. I wish I could say, like I had this wonderful blueprint and anytime I, Anytime you plan something, you go in a different direction, at least for me. So nothing I ever planned went the way I ever thought it would. So I've always been able to, to flow and just let kind of that inner. There's always this inner thing that pulls you. Not a voice, but an inner essence that pulls you. And I've always kind of followed that and it followed all over the years. And now I'm sitting here with you.
- [06:02]
B
And now you're here with me, and now you teach people how to sell, how to protect themselves, how to read people, how to influence situations. That's what the bulk of your book is about, correct? Yeah.
- [06:16]
A
Yes. So the book, when, you know, it was interesting, I wasn't sure if I was going to write a book because I had been approached to do a book before, but everybody wanted, tell me about the people you protect, me, protected. Tell me about the U.S. secret Service. The behind the scenes people wanted a book in which I would reveal a lot. And I didn't feel comfortable. And I kept saying no to all the book proposals that were coming my way. Then I came across a great agency and a great agent, Lara Love. And she was like, look, my agency does books that make the world a better, more wise, just place. Do you want to do one with us? And I said, yes. I said, the book has to help people. So again, there was that theme of how do we serve people? And so we sat down and we, they call it a DNA. We DNA the book and we broke it down into, okay, what are the skills that I use day to day today that will help other people? And so the first section was protect yourself. And I think that's kind of. You have to have that. I believe in humanity, I'm a champion for humanity, but I'm also very well aware that the world can also cause you harm. And you have to be self aware and not just physically protect yourself, but even from an emotional standpoint, who you interact with, who means you harm. And so the first part of the book was all about protection. The physical protection, the mental protection, the emotional protection. The second part we did, reading People, because you're dealing with people day to day and you really have to learn how to see them, how to absorb them, are they truthful? Sometimes what people say and what they do are not always in harmony.
- [07:51]
B
Yeah.
- [07:51]
A
And so you want to be able to thoughtfully navigate through that as best you can and even some detecting deception. Because as you, you mentioned before, I was a polygraph examiner and interrogator in my previous career. And then the latter part of the book was influence. How do we connect with people? Influence and not influence to manipulate people or to trick people. Influence and to create connections. And you have to think of connection like an ethos, which is another Greek word. It's a way of being. What is your ethos when it comes to other people? If people feel, feel connected to you, they will trust you. If they will trust you, they will want to be around you more. They want to be around you more, they want to work with you, they want to be your friend, they want to date you, maybe they want to marry you. You create this, this gravitational pull toward you, which a lot of people want because it makes life and your journey easier and you deal with less challenges, less conflict, less obstacles. Because at the core of everything, no matter what you do, at the end of the day, even in your profession, in the medical field, you're dealing with people. So it's not the what you know, which is what we've kind of been drilled on. What do you know? Be an expert. Be an expert. And you should be an expert on what you know. But the whole, this life skill, this such an important skill set gets lost on how are we dealing with people? People. If you can navigate through people, you can navigate through anything. And that's really kind of the crux accidentally of where my journey kind of led me to and how we wrote that book.
- [09:25]
B
Yeah, I want to, I want to start with the, the very first one, how to protect yourself, because I think we're.
- [09:32]
A
We.
- [09:32]
B
You take emotions into place when you talk about that. Right. And I think we're going through this epidemic of we've got social media now, and I think now we have to even talk about how to protect yourself on that platform. Is that what you mean when you say protect yourself on all level?
- [09:47]
A
I mean all levels. I mean physically, your physical being, when you're moving around, where you're going. I mean also. So what you're talking about is almost like that cybersecurity online, that's a huge thing. Very important to be very aware of what you share online. In fact, like I, I often see, and this is something that a lot of people do and some people may not like what I'm going to say, but I'm just being very objective and factual. I'll see people share their children's date of birth. Oh, here's my, my child that was born. And it's like the full name of the child, the date of birth of.
- [10:19]
B
The child, the white.
- [10:21]
A
You know, and they're sharing that online because they want to share that joy. I hear you, but what you just did was you shared your child's personal identifiers, their full name, their date of birth. Now I can go open up an account, open up a bank account. And going back to my previous career in law enforcement, one of the things that we would, we would, a lot of people op, would open up accounts and kids names. And so your kid now grows up, goes to take out a loan, goes to do something and it's, oh no, wait, there's a credit card out in your name, there's a home loan out in your name, there's issues with your credit score. So that's when you're referring to the online people need to be really careful. And there's like this social, this social scheme that people go through and I have a lot of people come to me. I had one woman come to me and we were trying to, I was trying to help her for a while. She had somebody hacked into her account, into her icloud, got all her photos, got very personal photos of her and just plastered them all online. And she's sort of a kind of out there and a public figure in some way. And she called me up, she's like, help me. She's like, I don't know how this happened. And then I remember I asked her, what's your password? What was your password for your, your icloud account? Her Apple account? She said it was my mother's name. I said, do you have pictures of your mom posted with you and do you have, are you connected with her on Facebook and these other platforms? She said, yeah. I'm like, A lot of people use passwords. My mother's name, my father's name, my date of birth, date of date of birth. These are identifiers. So when you take a photo and you put personal information out there, someone who's trying to hack in, it doesn't take them long to figure out, oh, this is her mother's name. Let me plug it in. Boom, it worked. And so those are things that people need to be aware of, even passwords.
- [12:01]
B
Yeah, I think that that's really interesting. I also think in terms of online cybersecurity and protecting yourself. What about Instagram, for example, and negative messages and negative comments that you're getting? You've got to somehow learn how to protect yourself from that as well.
- [12:17]
A
You have to be very well aware. If you're going to post online and you're waiting not to get negative comments like, then you should not be posting. Like, you can't be that naive to think, I'm going to go online and I'm going to share stuff and not have people come from everywhere and write stuff. First of all, online. It's interesting. We have more crime today because crime is easier to do. Because before online, to commit a crime, you had to physically almost do something to someone.
- [12:49]
B
Yeah. You had to go out.
- [12:50]
A
You had to go out. You had to engage someone some way. So most people don't have that fortitude to do that or that gall to do that. But today, I can engage with you from the safety of my own home and hide and be anonymous. So this anonymity also perpetuates more people being more brazen to do things online. And when you don't do something physically to someone, you don't feel as bad. In fact, when you brought up my. My interviews before the interrogations, I did a lot of different interviews and interrogations in the U.S. secret Service. They did a lot of financial crimes, but I would often go out on loan and help local police departments with their very difficult cases. And those tended to be violent crimes. I will tell you, it was harder for me to get a confession from someone who scammed money or did some online scam versus somebody who did something physically to someone. Wow.
- [13:48]
B
Why is that?
- [13:50]
A
Because when you physically do something to someone, most people feel a sense of guilt. They feel that I physically harmed you, I did something to you. It does something to them emotionally. When it's online, I don't feel that connection. I can harm you. Never have met you, and sometimes it becomes a prideful thing. Can I hack into this person's Account. Can I put it out there? We don't feel that connection. We don't feel as bad. You're not. Think of it this way. It's easy to gossip about something behind their back and you can talk about them and villainize them and say and say and say. And then when you see them, sometimes you're like, ah, okay, maybe I overdid it a little bit because of the way we perceive. So online is kind of the new way in which people can cause harm. And so you do have to do your, your due diligence. Even recently, I posted a photo of my daughter. I waited 10 months before I posted that photo. I made. I waited months and I went back and forth. But because I was a public figure and I do want to share a little bit of what I do, I cautiously shared two photos of her online and it really took me a long time. But I didn't put her name out there. I didn't put her date of birth out there. So it's. So it's to really be careful. Now if you're in a public eye, it might be a little bit harder. You know, I work in TV and I do the news and I've done shows with History Channel and Bravo. So it's a little more difficult when you're in that lane. But as an individual, you should absolutely be selective. What am I putting out there? Is this a picture of my car? The make and model of my car? Can you see my license plates? Can you see the address of my house from behind my head on the door? Like they do, they do put this picture together and the more you share, the easier that I can put a framework together, a profile of who you are. Then I go in, hack your accounts, try to get into your bank account. It's super easy. So it's become a very easy thing to do to people. And these platforms, they encourage you to post, of course, want you to post. And then if anything, even you probably noticed. Let me ask you a question. As a content creator, do you feel the need to post every day?
- [15:56]
B
I do.
- [15:56]
A
Right. So you feel this pressure that I have to post every day?
- [15:59]
B
Yeah.
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A
Where does that come from?
- [16:02]
B
Everywhere not being, you know, I think if I want to grow, okay, grow my audience and, you know, have more people see my message, I feel like I need to just keep posting, keep posting, because everybody else is posting as well.
- [16:13]
A
Right. So you're, you, you're on, you're in this race to try to figure out what to post.
- [16:16]
B
Yeah.
- [16:17]
A
And that's another thing you know what's interesting with that? You're being pushed to post, and every day you have to rack your head to figure out, what do I post? So then think about how much noise is out there, how many creators are out there following this kind of. This. This thought process. Post every day. And are we posting something meaningful every day, or are we just pumping stuff into the system so that we can just be relevant and people can see us? And so now we're putting stuff out there that doesn't even have value.
- [16:45]
B
Yeah. And I've really gone, oh, welcome to the. Welcome to Instagram and the Internet.
- [16:50]
A
But you know what? It's also on us. So I post as well. And there are times where I won't post for weeks. And I'm not saying people should follow my path, but I thought about it and I'm like, I don't want to post just to post. What am I saying? That's a value. I was a polygraph examiner. I work with a man named Lee, who was a phenomenal interrogator.
- [17:11]
B
The polygraph is the exam that you have to sit.
- [17:14]
A
It's a lie detector test.
- [17:15]
B
It's a lie detector test.
- [17:15]
A
But we were interrogators, in essence. Yeah, we were interrogators. And he was just great at interviewing people. And we would talk about. He would have this thing called verbal economics. And one of the things we learned is don't talk a lot. When you want to learn about people, shut up, sit quiet, and people will reveal themselves to you. And so the other thing was, the less you say, the more impactful it is then when you do speak. So you have to think of, like, you would say, look at your words, like currency. If you're going to speak. If you speak a lot, you're dropping dollar bills everywhere you go. Here's a dollar, here's a dollar, here's a dollar. But when you're really thoughtful and you do speak, when you have something value to say, you're dropping hundreds. And I always look at social media in that way. Everyone's out there dropping dollar bills. No one's dropping hundreds. And that's why we're so inundated and our psyche is so inundated and our emotional senses inundated because we feel, I need to put stuff out there. But at the core of it, if you think about it, am I putting something of value out there? Am I just posting because I feel like I need to post so that I can be relevant, Be relevant in the world? No, I kind of. I hope that we will change that script because we're being groomed to do this. And just think about who's grooming you to do this. Post every day, do this every day. But what are you putting out there? And is what you're saying a value? Or are you just creating stuff so that you can take some space in the world so that you can feel relevant?
- [18:47]
B
Yeah, it's like, you know, you don't see Oprah posting every day. And I dare say that if Warren Buffett just came on to Instagram and posted something once a year, everybody would tune in.
- [18:57]
A
I think we're getting caught up in this, this, This. I don't want to say scheme, but somebody else's narrative. And then we go online and I can't even. I work with. A lot of people come to me for consulting, very accomplished people, very well to do people. And they feel like failures because they're online. They're like, how is this person posting every day? How is this person doing this. This very unhealthy and competitive thing that happens? And it's not even competitive. It's comparison.
- [19:23]
B
Yeah.
- [19:25]
A
So I think we need kind of a reboot, psychologically, all of us, to say, I'm going to post or share online when I have something of value to say and not flood the world with all this noise. Because there's a lot of noise. People don't know what to listen to and when to listen to. And we are all taking part of it, all of it. It's like, what value are you putting into the world? And so, going back to your first question, I want to be a person of service. And I spend time I've avoided kind of cultivating into this process of I have to post. I have to post because it's like, well, what if I don't have anything meaningful to say? So I'm just going to put nonsense out there because someone needs to see me.
- [20:04]
B
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- [21:29]
A
You know, I think there needs to be a healthier balance.
- [21:32]
B
Yeah, you mentioned economics. What was it? Emotional economics, Verbal economics. Verbal economics. And I want to talk about that. I also want to talk about emotions because a lot of the people listening to this podcast are people who are looking at performing at their peak. Everybody wants to live a better life. And we talk about health span on this podcast. We talk about lifespan and I want to talk about this world of emotions because we are, you know, you and I are living in New York City. It's a. It's a stressful city. And we've got, you know, we've got. I've got a very demanding schedule every day. And one thing that is really hard for me is to manage my emotions under pressure. And what I realized is I cannot get to my peak my best until I first learn how to manage my emotions and master my emotions under pressure. When I'm not under pressure, I'm. My emotions are great, but managing them under pressure is really hard for me.
- [22:31]
A
When you say managing them under pressure, can you give me a scenario so.
- [22:35]
B
I, you know, I'm not going to blame my culture on this. I tend to. I'm my culture on a lot of things these days and I'm going to stop doing that. But I have a short fuse and if I'm angry, I can go from 0 to 100. But the curve, the line isn't linear. I'll go up and I'll immediately come back down and I'll be fine. But I do, I can. If something really frustrates me, I have the ability to go all the way up. Yeah, that's when I'm really stressed.
- [23:03]
A
Is it. Is it. Do you find that it happens to you with work or do you find that it happens to you with family or friends.
- [23:08]
B
More so, less with work, more so, more emotional. Yeah. Relationships and family relationships.
- [23:15]
A
That tends to be the same with most people. It's interesting, a lot of people can navigate work a bit better, but usually their issue comes back to people. And so it goes back to kind of what we started talking about. People, people, people, people. Because that's what you're interacting and you have to learn to be a dealer when it comes to people's emotions and knowing where you are and how you are feeling and where you're going. So yes, we do have to self regulate, but it's also, you're going to have a hard time self regulating if you don't do kind of like an assessment of some external environment consistently. So if you have a lot of very volatile people around you, very chaotic people around you, people that go from 0 to 100, that's very likely to impact you. So no matter how much you self regulate, no matter how much you have it together, the other thing you need to do is look at your external driver. So what you're talking about is an internal driver. I call it an internal driver. Your internal driver is what I do internally to self regulate. So assessing, pausing, thinking, navigating my thoughts, my emotions, that's internal driver. But you're also impacted by external drivers, the things you're surrounded by. So maybe where you live, the people around you, whether they chaotic, they're not chaotic. Are they supportive? Not supportive or you know, do they take from you consistently? It can be your lifestyle. So all these things impact us. And so you have to look at both consistently. So it's not just can I self regulate and fix myself? You can do that work, but that's only up to a point. If your exterior world is also not regulated well, you're never going to be able to try to find that balance.
- [24:58]
B
Yeah. What if the people around us are family members?
- [25:02]
A
That's fine. It's then you think about how often do I answer the phone, Am I in the right mindset to listen to this or do I need to debate this with somebody? So, for example, I had a lot of family who would love, because my previous career and when I worked in the White House to talk to me about politics, all the time. And 90% of the time, the things that they would say were false and I knew they were factually false, they would watch the news, they would make assumptions about what's really going on and I knew they were false. I did not sit and try to Debate those things. I was just like, okay, I didn't engage. I didn't have the energy. I didn't have the time. I also knew it wasn't good for my internal psyche. I had things to do. But a lot of people will engage. They're like, but that person's wrong. So why do you feel the need to correct everybody?
- [25:51]
B
That's what I have to get better at. Because I can't tell you how many people call me or just talk to me about health problems. And more often than not, when they're talking to me about that, they also, like, just say, I'm in a group. One person says, a health problem, another person will give them the answer. And that is. That's what really makes me tick. Because that answer is so wrong in so many ways. And I know that. And for me to be able to debate them, I'm going to have to bring up.
- [26:18]
A
But why do you have to debate them?
- [26:20]
B
Because, see, this is the issue. Because in that moment, I feel what the advice you're giving is so wrong. And I know the truth and I just want to. I just want them to know that I know the truth and that's wrong.
- [26:34]
A
But here's the thing, too. People also select what they want to believe. So somebody comes to you. First of all, I'll tell you, this is my rule of thumb. If people don't say, evie, what do you think? I don't give it unless I hear, evie, can I have your opinion? I say nothing. Most of the time, people don't ask opinion. They want to vent. They want to say, they want to be heard. They're very emotional. People are very emotional beings. So they go, so as I hear, evie, what do you think I should do? I say, I nothing. Because you didn't ask me.
- [27:04]
B
Do you think this is gender specific? Like, do you see differences in how men operate emotionally and how women operate emotionally?
- [27:13]
A
I think it varies. No, I think it's based on character. I know some people stereotype women as being more emotional than men. I've worked with a lot of men. I've seen both. I think it has to do with your environment. People, perhaps. I think maybe why women do may seem more emotional is because they've been given the O the way growing up. Or it's expected for them to be emotional and where men are not. So if a woman cries at work, it's different. And if a guy cries at work, it's different. I remember I had an interview, interview with this big magazine. We won't say what Magazine. It was. And it was one of the editors and writers. And she said, well, it's okay for women to cry at work, isn't it? I said, why is it okay? So if you're going to write that article telling women to cry at work, you should write it and telling men to cry at work. So I think those though that social structure also impacts our behavior. If we're told you are expected to behave this way. We will. We will.
- [28:18]
B
What do you think we're currently facing when it comes to problems in this area as a society? Do you think we're becoming weaker?
- [28:27]
A
In what capacity?
- [28:28]
B
In the capacity of now we have a voice. I know there's a lot of. There's a lot of talk right now in the social media realm of men, you know, having, you know, being able to be more emotional. We're trying to, you know, enable men to be more emotional and go and seek therapy if they need, because a lot of men don't. Do you think that we're becoming weaker as. As we go into 2023?
- [28:57]
A
I think it depends what you're seeking therapy for. And everybody has to find their own path to therapy. Let me ask you this before I answer it. What? Because, because you're in the medical field, what do you see or what do you think happens with therapy? Is it. Is it something that's being sought out after a lot now? Like what?
- [29:14]
B
I think it's being sought out after a lot. I mean, every single person I speak to now is. Is like, yep, my therapist said this. My therapist said that. But this is from a population. I don't see many men because I have 99 of my clients are men. I don't see them saying yet, my therapist said this.
- [29:30]
A
It's interesting. I wonder, do you. Would. Would they disclose that to you, honestly, if they were seeing one?
- [29:35]
B
Well, I would hope so. They disclose everything else.
- [29:38]
A
Okay, so then that's interesting.
- [29:40]
B
Yeah.
- [29:41]
A
I will tell you this. We have to learn to cope with problems.
- [29:47]
B
Yeah.
- [29:48]
A
And I think therapy or seeing somebody who is qualified.
- [29:52]
B
Yes.
- [29:53]
A
Who is qualified is appropriate under certain conditions. I also think it's appropriate you to work through your problems. And the struggle is. Okay, so if you're struggling with something, it does not automatically need. You mean you need therapy? There's like this over. Something's wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with you. And in fact, I think it's really important to normalize people being sad, people being depressed, people being angry. We're supposed to feel these emotions. But I do think we're in an environment where you're sad, please take this. It'll make you feel better. You're struggling. Please take this. You have anxiety. Please take this. And we're not teaching people how to cope. And you're masking the problem. We're not giving people the proper coping skills.
- [30:38]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:38]
A
Which is why we're seeing a lot of issues. One of the things, you know, I track, because I do the news are mass shootings. And we've seen the numbers definitely go up. Not gun violence. Gun violence has always been around. And one on one, gun violence has always been around historically. But mass shootings, we're seeing something, something happen here. And why is that? And one of the theories behind it, and the US Secret Service has done a lot of assessment into why people will do this and what makes somebody more likely to be a threat. Because we would analyze threats all the time. Our people, our inability to cope. So usually when we look at a mass shooter, we'll look at them historically and you'll see some things happen in their life. Either a significant life change, a breakup, a divorce, a problem at school, a problem at work, maybe getting fired. And you'll see something like that happened where they don't know how to emotionally regulate themselves. So you bring up therapy and weakness. And I never like to call people weak because I came from an environment where it's either you're weak or strong. And this maybe, you know, I understand that thinking too, but I think we need to normalize. It's okay to be, to struggle, but it's also very important for you to work through your stuff out.
- [31:50]
B
What I just heard from you is the fact that coping, this mechanism of being able to cope is really what is going to separate you then.
- [31:59]
A
Yes. You know, it's, I, I sometimes I'll do consultations and people come to me and in their question for their consultation, whether it's work or their professional life, always personal stuff comes out. And you know, I'm struggling, I lack confidence, or this happened to me. I'm in therapy and I hear it a lot. How long you've been in therapy? Oh, 11 years, 12 years. Still struggling. I'm like, do you not see that something's not right there?
- [32:24]
B
It's like, I've been on a diet for 11 years and it's not working. Yeah.
- [32:28]
A
And so they're like, yeah, well, that's why I came to see you. I said, but you're still seeing that therapist. And so there's something else in the Greek culture and you know, this because you're medical professional in your medical profession, do no harm. Yeah, do no harm. Treat people to the point that they need treatment and then let them go. But I think the medical society does harm to people when they keep them coming back and coming back and coming back. And I'm saying this through my. I'm not a medical doctor. I'm sharing this on my. Through my experience of seeing people come to me needing help. And I'm thinking, you're coming to me about strategy and skill. But then when we talk about it, there's something else going on. And you've been in therapy with this person or these people and you've made no progress. That should tell you something. We don't value ourselves enough to say, I can figure this out, I can do this on my own, or I can seek help here and there, but not this. Becoming reliant on someone else, that doesn't make us stronger, more independent. That means my therapist said, well, you know what my therapist told me? I don't care what your therapist told you. What do you think?
- [33:38]
B
Do you think we're like that? Why do you think we're scared to trust ourselves?
- [33:43]
A
I think that we're in an environment here where it's really being pushed in this. In our environment here. If you go to other countries, it doesn't. I think mental health profession is important and I've worked with plenty of people that really do need it, and it's legitimate. But then there's also. It gets pushed onto everybody, and then I think it creates a dependency, in fact. And consult with people. Initially, I wouldn't do more than three sessions with people and they would say, why, Avi? I want to do more than three sessions? Absolutely not. Because what I'm doing is saying, keep coming back to me because I have the answers and you don't. My goal is I will consult with you, I will lay a blueprint for you, and these are the things I want you to follow through. If I keep you coming back, I am no better than that other professor, that other person telling you, keep coming back to me. I got you. Yeah, I'll fix you. There's nothing to be fixed. Yeah, we are all a work in progress. It's so interesting because this is something that's really coming up and I see people and I tell them, tell, make sure that the person you have is qualified. Make sure you need to see them. And just because you start seeing one, it doesn't mean you need to stay there. But they create an environment where they make you feel you need to stay.
- [34:54]
B
It's basically saying, well, here's the blueprint. Here are the coping strategies that I want you to put into place and do it. Don't just let, don't. Let's not just talk. Go, here's your homework. Go and do the homework. Hopefully you've learned from it. If not iterate and then put into action again.
- [35:13]
A
Well, it's also a lot of them, people that. And again, this is the experience that I have, the people that come to me. And this is a really, a huge thing I'm seeing. It's a pattern. And I was actually surprised because I thought therapy's supposed to make you better. And that's why I see these people coming to me and the majority of them are in therapy. And I'm thinking, what's going on here? So it's, it's really assessing why, going, what am I going for? Is it helping me? And then also I will tell people, when you go, are you reliving past trauma or past experiences consistently over and over and over again? Because if you are, that's going to impact you in a negative way. We talk about consumption and protecting ourselves from what we consume. Right? Well, negative thoughts and reliving stressors from the past, those affect us not just psychologically, physiologically. Oh, yeah, the cortisol spikes the stress, the trauma, what that does to us, it creates a chronic stress. So if you're reliving things over and over again, over healing, I'd like to know who's healed from something, trauma. I'm, I hear it. I'm like, have you healed? I don't know if we can truly heal. We're on this journey to heal. It's. Maybe it's something we're supposed to experience, process, and then take with us to move forward.
- [36:29]
B
Yeah, it's interesting. I've got, I've got somebody coming on the podcast next week, and she speaks about how unhealed trauma aids in metabolic dysfunction, which then goes into disease states. So I'm so happy that you said that. I'm really interested in understanding what, what personal experience you have had and you've spoken openly on other podcasts about 9, 11. I want to know when was a time you were under immense pressure and how did you react?
- [37:04]
A
Probably every day on my job.
- [37:06]
B
Okay.
- [37:06]
A
Honestly, I mean, every day on the job, you would vest up. You would put your vest up and you would know, today's the day I might not go home, but you have to be okay with that. I was okay with it, it's, it's, you know, you're out there, you're protecting people, you're protecting the office of the presidency. And it wasn't just him. We protected first ladies, their families. I, I can't think of a better way to serve, to make your life mean something than to think another human being's life. And so I was around. And this goes back to who is around you because I was around other brave people. I was brave. So we'd put our vest on and okay, let's go. Hopefully we'll bake it back for dinner. But there was that dress. We were very high performing, performing high functioning. And so we would go out there, we'd be. You had to be very tactically sound, mentally stable and meant grounded, physically fit. Like all those things had to be in harmony for you to function. And we were very good. Stress, not chronic stress, but stress is a great thing because it makes you a great problem solver, it makes you more competent and it makes you better at coping. The way you become stronger is that you expose yourself to stress. The way you're better at recovering from a problem, you expose yourself to stress. But if you spend your whole time in the dynamics of avoiding everything, just the act of you trying to avoid confrontation or problems, that creates a chronic stress, which is not good. And so I think I was very fortunate to be around very. People ask like about, you know, the resiliency I have. It's because I got it from other people.
- [38:50]
B
Yeah.
- [38:50]
A
And I was around other people who are very good at coping, problem solving. So when we had a problem, you could see everybody thinking through it rather than, rather kind of losing it.
- [39:01]
B
Yeah.
- [39:03]
A
So when you think about stress, it was a day to day thing. You could, I mean even when we, and then I would do arrests or search warrants, you would go in there, very high stress, thinking, I hope I don't shoot somebody today. I hope somebody shoot me today. I hope somebody doesn't shoot my colleague today. Because those decisions you make in that moment can dictate the rest of your life and how it's going to go or not going to go. Yeah, I think we were, it was always a very high stress environment, but because we were consistently exposed to becomes the norm. And so you deal with stress very well.
- [39:43]
B
Was there ever a moment where you were where that was like the breaking point for you in your career?
- [39:49]
A
No, no, no, no. You weren't allowed to have that. I don't, I, I don't know. I think that maybe they just did such A great job training us and exposing us to stressor. Here's the thing, you couldn't let that stuff enter your mind, that that would kill you. So you went in understanding that things weren't always going to work out, that there would always be problems, you'd always have, you'd all be reactive, always have to be thoughtful. And there were moments where there were close calls and I'm like, that was very close.
- [40:20]
B
Yeah.
- [40:21]
A
And then you move on, on. But again, I, I, I highlight that I was around, I was in a space where people were very high functioning, high function, fun, very good problem solver solvers. The training. So there was a psyche there, a collective psyche and a collective culture that helped promote this way of being.
- [40:40]
B
I mean I, I look at this and I think about this in the sporting world because I've had many, I have had, you know, I work with athletes and sometimes I see them and I see them like, oh my God, you are, you are in flow, you are unstoppable, you are unbreakable. And then out of nowhere you see, you know, the latest, you know, NBA player, he's now just acting out, he's being crazy. Then it comes out that he has mental health issues and he can't control his anger and his emotion. And I think, you know, should these players be practicing these coping mechanisms every single day and practicing stress mechanisms every single day so they don't get into that position?
- [41:22]
A
Yeah, if it's, it's something that's being brought up in the culture, it's because if there's an issue and think of it just you're out there, you're performing, you're making all this money, your world's changed, the pressure of performing, you're in the public eye. If you don't do well, that's incredible stressor.
- [41:37]
B
They got their entire family on, on their books and you know, as employees, so they're taking care of their families.
- [41:44]
A
That's another, that's a pretty, you know, dangerous thing too. And I had to be mindful of it when I went into tv. You start to become everybody's go to person. Yep, that's a huge stress. Got you. I've got you. You want to take care of everybody. That's not a good thing either. Like, I'm not saying not to take care of people, but you hear all these stories where people are out there and they've got everybody on payroll and it's how are you helping them and how are you helping yourself? And you create this stressor and then they Retire, their careers are over and they've got no money. So this is where we really have to be thoughtful. And sometimes you brought up other people where we have to have that, a good internal volume inside of us to know what is right, right, what is wrong. You know, I've had people come to me, hey, can you loan me this? Can you do this? And I have to pull, I have to make an assessment. I can't do that. If I do that, I know this person will never pay me back. They don't have the means to pay me back. And so you have to make that hard decision, am I willing to do this or not? But if you become that consistent, that becomes your burden. You know, you have to be mindful. In fact, when we would, I would even see this with people, we would arrest. We would arrest people. And when you arrest someone, you take them for their arraignment. And the arraignment is after you process them. You fingerprint them, you take their photos. They appear before a judge and, and the judge says to them, sir, ma', am, say their name, their name. This is what you're being charged with. And they will tell them you're being charged with xxxx and they will say, the statute of whatever of violation. And then they would say, sir, ma', am, how do you plead? And it was either typically guilty or not. Usually in arraignments, arraignments, everybody say not guilty. It's a pretrial process. Right. And right after that, they would, an assessment would be made of whether somebody should get bail, get mad. So bail is whether we can let that person go home. As they go through the, the criminal justice process, most people get bail now when people get bit, they, they'll say, you can go home. If you put up $10,000, bail means you're going to come back, give us 10,000, and then we'll give it to you as long as you keep coming back for court. And a lot of people call people friends, family, like, hey, you've got money, you've got money. And, and they would skip. They would get money from friends and family who were trying to do the right thing, and then they would skip bail. That those people would never get that money back. It was a common. Thomas. You would see, I'd always, internally, I'd hear somebody, I'd be like, man, I'm like, you're about to gyp this person out of their money.
- [44:14]
B
Yeah.
- [44:14]
A
So sometimes in our effort to do good for others, we get taken advantage of. And so that really goes Back to, you have to make good judgments about some people, know people and know who's means you well and who's going to really put their self interest before yours and how that's going to harm you. So I would tell people, I can't help you. When people would say, I gave bail, they skipped out of town. It's not my fault they did it. I was trying to be nice. Be nice. Yes. But you put that money out, you're never going to see it again.
- [44:43]
B
And that happens as you. You know what I've noticed as I'm getting older and getting further in my career? It's the friends that I had 10, 15 years ago are, you know, we're just two different people right now. And I think that's what a lot of people struggle with as well. Just letting people go who are not on the same bus as you, on the same journey as you.
- [45:04]
A
I don't know if everybody. And that's a really valid point. Right. Should you stay connected to people who are on the same journey as you? I don't, it depends. Right. Because I can go back to Greece and hang out in my mom's village and I'm, I have a great time. They're nowhere near on the same journey as me. So there's different parts of me that connect with different people at different times.
- [45:27]
B
Yeah.
- [45:28]
A
Now you may not have time for those people. That's a possibility. Or maybe you want to create space in your life to bring in other people. I understand that. I mean, I think back now I reflect literally a lot of the people I grew up with. I don't see them as much or I'm not around with them as much because my journey did take me in a different path. And I think that that's okay. Yeah, it's, it's your, the point is you self assess and you choose. Some people are good for us as friends, but maybe they're on a very different path than us. I guess not everybody has to be a high performer.
- [46:06]
B
Yeah.
- [46:06]
A
Sometimes even living a simple life, it's a very respectful thing. You, I've known very, I know people who live very simple lives who are very solid, grounded folks.
- [46:15]
B
Yeah. Yeah, me too. I, I, I was, when I was doing research for this podcast, I saw that you, you were teaching, I think it was real estate agents, a group of real estate agents about how to sell. And I loved when you were talking about this because you have, you have a lot of tactics about negotiation, selling even, you know, you brought up dating and, you know, and Then sitting across from somebody when you're making a deal. And I want to get into that because I think that selling now is everything. It doesn't mean you're, you're going out and you're selling a car or a home. We're literally selling ourselves every single day. I feel like I am.
- [46:57]
A
At the very least, you know, it's yes. So when I speak and I present, I do, I get, I go to a lot of large Companies like Fortune 500, even top, top, top huge companies, and they'll bring me in for either to speak on connecting with people, communication, resilience, and a lot of them work with people and sometimes even in sales. So I've done some of the larger real estate companies who have come to me and said, can you help our people be better at selling? And so the thing I tell everybody, is everybody selling? Yeah, it's disingenuous. What you want to do is have a human connection with people. You want to find your ethos, your way of being. So when they say, here's some tips or tricks or techniques. Do you like it when people use tips and tricks on you? Would you like it if I use a technique on you? Okay, nobody likes that. People feel it when you do it. That's why when somebody's gonna go out and buy a car, how many people like to go buy cars they don't want to deal with? No offense to my car salesman's out there, but they don't want to deal with that. Or sometimes you go to a store, it's, hi, can I help you? People are, no, no, I'm fine. Because you don't want to deal with that because you know that they're just trying to sell you something. So what I try to teach is have a human connection with people. That is what works be genuine. If you can create an authentic human connection, then people will want to work with you, buy from you, do things with you. I think that's what's most important. But people attached to the outcome. I need to sell this house. And that's what they get focused on. And then the person that they're dealing with gets lost. Everything's about getting selling the house. I remember when I lived here in New York, New York, and I worked with the US Secret Service as a special agent. And then I was going to get transferred to Washington D.C. to be on full time with President Barack Obama and I had to go buy a house. So there was. I had to find a real estate agent. I get this real estate agent and he takes me around all of DC to show me houses. At the time, it was right before the housing market marched. I remember him showing me all these places and I was thinking, how much do they want for this? For this? And so he took me around, he took really good care of me and he probably spent a lot of days with me. In the end, I didn't buy anything, I didn't like anything. Everything was over. I was a government employee, U.S. secret Service or not, I was a government paid employee. I just couldn't bring up the funds to risk buying something like that. So I buy nothing from him. And he never pushed me. He was genuine. I liked his company, was just a great all around guy. And when I said, look, I'm not going to get knocking, he said, don't worry about it. He's like, when you're ready, you ready? Find me. After that, I must have had 30 to 40 agents come to me when they were moving to DC. Hey, you got anybody? Yes, they do. Go to this guy. He's great. So he didn't sell me the house, but through me, he sold about 20 houses.
- [49:50]
B
Yeah.
- [49:51]
A
Because he was focused, focused on me and having a connection with actually not selling me a house.
- [49:57]
B
Yeah.
- [49:57]
A
And it worked to his benefit because in the end I sent everybody to him, everybody I knew go to this guy. And he sold more houses through that. It's human connection. So out there speaking to people, I'm going to say this. Don't think about yourself. Don't think about what you want, what you need. Flip it. What does this person need? How can I connect with them? How can I give them value? What mess? What do they want to share? But we're in a very identity society. Me, me, me, me. What does me want? Me needs. You're not on the me path. Move over and we, and we lose ourselves. So what I teach is forget me. Be in service of other people, be in service of others. That creates connection, that creates trust, and that's. Then you will see yourself flourish in the business world.
- [50:53]
B
Yeah, I love that. When that said, when you're making a deal, don't, don't sit at a table. Kind of like what we're doing right now because it takes into consideration body language as well.
- [51:03]
A
The thing with tables, here's the thing, here's tables. They do create a barrier between people and kind of break the connection. It can, when you remove a table, you can see the whole person. You can feel in a sense. And it does allow for that openness. Now it depends on what you're trying to do. If you're trying to get people to be more open, not having this helps you. Right. But also, a lot of people like the table because it also makes a protective barrier for themselves. Not everyone's always comfortable having discussion or conversation. So even the person that's doing the talking, they're interviewing, they may want the table because they feel a little bit just safer. It's just a barrier.
- [51:43]
B
Yeah.
- [51:44]
A
So it really depends on what you're trying to do. If you want a human connection, you might want to not have this. So if we go back to real estate, I'm a real estate agent. I'm taking you everywhere. Everywhere. I'm showing you this. I'm taking you out for lunch. I'm working super, super, super hard to sell you something. I want the relationship to feel informal. Then we're about to talk paperwork. Okay. Sit down at this big conference room. Get your pen and paper out. And then what happens when I sit down at that table? Oh, wow. Now we're getting formal. The person sits upright.
- [52:16]
B
Yeah.
- [52:16]
A
Everything shifts. Now we're getting down to business. So all that work and energy you put into warming somebody up, you just lost them when you sat them down at that table. Table. That's human connection. That's what people miss.
- [52:30]
B
The only time a table is warranted is if you're on a first date at a restaurant then, or eating. Yeah.
- [52:36]
A
I'm not saying that you can't use them. All I'm saying is, is be thoughtful of your environment. The environment we had is something we really thought about whenever we would do with interviews. I was trained to think about, where are you going? Even, am I going to your place? Are you coming to my place? If I want to feel stronger, maybe have more confidence, I'll have you come. Have you? Me? But if I come to you, it's your home. It's your environment. You're more comfortable. And so when I was trying to interview people, especially for whether they knew something about a crime, I don't want to go to their house. A lot of investigators thought, I'm gonna go to house. I'm gonna look around. I'm gonna see. What are you gonna see? I want information. I'm gonna see what. How they live. And how does that help me solve a crime? It doesn't. But when I go to their house, it's their home. That's where they're king and queen. The phone rings, they answer it. I'm doing this, I'm doing that. How can I help? Yeah, they're in charge.
- [53:29]
B
Yeah.
- [53:29]
A
But when I have you come to me, ma', am, sir, will you come meet me at my office? I'd love to speak to you. They're coming into my space. They're not as. It's not their kingdom, it's my kingdom, so to speak. But it's more of a neutral environment. And now I'm able to connect to them. They're not distracted by what's going on around them. And they're. They're not as sitting on their throne. And I like that because now I can have a more meaningful discussion with you.
- [53:56]
B
How about when you get people you get to, like when you're negotiating with somebody, would the same rules apply? Would you get them to come into your home, your environment?
- [54:03]
A
Depends what I'm negotiating right now. I think a lot of stuff happens through Zoom. A lot of stuff happens through email.
- [54:09]
B
You lose a lot of connection through.
- [54:11]
A
Zoom, I think, you know, I have this big casting meeting in a couple of weeks with this big, big network, and I used to do them in person, and now it's like, yes, you're going to meet over Zoom. So I'm thinking, man, what happened to just meeting people and shaking hands? It's lost. Everything's Zoom. So I think it depends where you're and how you're doing it. I would think the thing already, from what I know and even working with businesses out there, companies right now are on Zoom or doing this, the Zoom thing. So I will say you might want to focus more on talking to people on the phone rather than doing Zooms. There's some research that seems to be coming out saying that it's actually, you will build. Sorry, Zoom. And I love Zoom. You will build more of a connection with people, talking to them on the phone rather than through this online medium. Because what happens when we're online and we're looking at people, we're distracted. I'm not really looking at you, I'm looking at myself. And then when I break my gaze, I'm looking at everybody. Every. What are they doing? So you're really competing with people. Attention. Yeah, but if it's on the phone, you're not competing as much. You hear their voice, it's a bit more intimate. So actually, if you want to create a deeper connection, phone over. And I love Zoom. I don't want to kill it, but I use it a lot. But think connection, connection, connection. How do I connect? You can meet with someone even better. Although I think that's really shifting today.
- [55:35]
B
I want to also Though you mentioned that, you know, when you go into these large organizations, you. You also talk about resiliency.
- [55:43]
A
Yes.
- [55:44]
B
Yeah. Why is it important for us to be resilient?
- [55:49]
A
A lot of companies are having issues. Well, one big issue of companies are having is getting their people to come to work. Really? Yes. People don't want to come back to work, to the office, or trying to bring people back. That's been a really huge struggle for people, people. And it's interesting because some of the people I've consulted will say to me, you know, I'm depressed, I'm not doing well, I can't get out of bed. And I will always ask them, can I ask you, do you go to the office or what? Do you work out of work from home? Hands down. Hands down. Anybody who's told me I'm depressed, I'm struggling, they all work from home.
- [56:23]
B
Yeah.
- [56:24]
A
And I would tell them, what do I do? Can you go to the office, get out and see people move your body, get out of that house. So people. People have come into this place where it. Under certain. Certain conditions, I think it's helpful. Like, I'm a new mom, so I'm able to work from home sometimes, and it's huge. But overall, long term, it's not really good for that.
- [56:46]
B
Yeah. Even for me sometimes, like, sometimes there will go days where I haven't had human contact. And I think that. That I'm like, oh my God, like, maybe I need to like, go out now and just go and get a coffee and talk to the barista. Because it's just so damaging. Effy.
- [57:01]
A
Human contact makes you very resilient. Isolation does not. So isolation is a big thing. So I think that's one thing. When we talk to companies can't. How do we get your get back into the office? How do we. How do talk to people? Even as a college professor, we were. I teach criminal justice and criminology and my school, we. We Covid was happening. Everything went thing line. And then they said, which teachers want to come back and teach on campus? I was one of the few that said, right here. Put me on campus. And some of the students, when the students would come back because I would teach classes where you physically had to show up show. I would see this almost awkwardness, like they didn't know how to socialize or speak or talk to one another. A lot gets lost. I think we really lose, like, you need connection. And this is coming from the person that's telling you, watch out for people, be careful. But I also Understand how important it is for you emotionally and resilience, that's how you're going to build, by connecting and meeting and talking to people. So that's a big thing for companies when I go out there. And also how can they. Another issue big companies are having. They may be able to talk to their employees in a way where they're a bit more direct.
- [58:12]
B
And so there's hurting their feelings per se.
- [58:15]
A
Everything is people's. People are very. I get triggered. We don't want to trigger people, we want to respect people. And those are wonderful things. But now you're not able to deliver what needs to be done. So if I say to you we work together and I work for you and I do something for you and you say, evie, this report you did you this assessment on this player that you did this athlete, it's actually, I need you to redo it. It's missing this, it's missing this, it's missing this. It's not the way it needs to be. You know, you have to change that. I need to be able to hear that and not get my feelings hurt. But if I hear, you know, I don't hear Evie, I didn't like this. If I hear Evie, I don't like you. That's the problem. It's how do I hear it? And so what's happening, A lot of people aren't listening and they will internalize. Oh, you didn't like what I did here? That means you don't like me. Oh, that's not what they said.
- [59:04]
B
And then they can then take that further and say it's workplace bullying, harassment.
- [59:10]
A
Those things do exist. I 100%. But people need to be able to speak to you. And it's hard for organizations, they want to tell their employees, don't do this, do this, change this, do that. And to be efficient, sometimes we need to be direct. So my previous agency and even the nypd, they were very direct agencies just do this, do this. Nobody's feelings typically got hurt because it was understood that time sensitive, we couldn't sit and play with an idea. Nobody was there to hold your hand through it. Everybody had a function and a purpose. And I think and in our effort to manage difficult situations and environments where people are being arbitrary or harassed because those things absolutely happened, we're trying to be so sensitive that it's actually we've gone to the extreme other end. Yeah. And so these organizations are not able to function to be as high functioning because it's harder to speak to their employees. It's harder to critique without people becoming offended. You know, if you're easily offended, that means I have a lot of internal work to do. Why am I easily offended? Why am I so sensitive? Yeah, unless there's something I truly need to be offended by, somebody really did something to offend me. And if I had, I've had those myself throughout my careers. And so I don't want to dismiss those moments. But I also have to know and select. This is a true moment where somebody's doing something harmful, hurtful, bullying me. And this is a moment where somebody's merely trying to tell me, can you just do this? Change this so that we can fix it? Because it's. It wasn't done right. There's nothing wrong with that.
- [60:49]
B
Yeah. Okay. So as we. As we're wrapping up, I want you to. Which is going to be a hard thing, but have a look back on all of your career and tell me what are the top three things that you think we need to know in order to become more resilient and emotionally fit?
- [61:06]
A
More resilience and emotionally fit. Talk less, listen more, Talk less, Listen more.
- [61:12]
B
What's more? One?
- [61:13]
A
Well, talk lessen more. I'd put them in.
- [61:15]
B
Okay, that's the first one.
- [61:16]
A
I put that together. Just listen to people. Talk less. You'll learn a lot more. You'll be more knowledgeable. You'll also know where people are coming from. So either somebody that means you good and somebody means you harm. The other thing other than you is pay attention to people's behavior, not the person. Pay attention to the behaviors. So those red fluids are the things you see people do. People will show you how they feel about you. When we muddy that with, oh, no, but that's my friend. That's Tony. That's Bob. Well, that's how he is. And then Tony, Bob, or Sarah hurt us, and we think, oh, my God, I. I didn't pay attention. I saw these things, and the nickels start dropping. So one of the things I was taught, when you're assessing human beings, I assess their behavior, not the person.
- [62:04]
B
And patterns. Right.
- [62:06]
A
Not even patterns, but patterns. What they show you? Yeah, what they show you. I had a friend who, every time we spoke on the phone, first words out of our mouth, I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy. And I'm like, don't call me. So every time I would hear it, I would think, I'm busy, too. I just don't vocalize it. But then through her behavior, she would consistently show me she wouldn't do things right. It wasn't a person that valued me or my time. So everything was a value to her and her time. But when it came to me, there were no boundaries or anything like that. So she showed me through her behavior how she really saw me or thought of me. And so I had to self correct. So pay attention to what people show you. Okay. Don't chase people that don't treat you well.
- [62:51]
B
I love that. That's, that's. That is so powerful. It's something I'm definitely going to be putting into practice. Where. What's next for you? Where do you see yourself over the next 10 years?
- [63:03]
A
I don't know.
- [63:04]
B
Wow.
- [63:05]
A
Okay. I never know. I fl. I kind of flow through life and I may say I see myself here, but I end up here. And so my initially when I left the US Secret Service, I was supposed to be doing just news, hard news. That's it. This blew up. There was a shooting. Police, police, crime issues, criminal justice. That was me. And then Journey took me on doing a book on doing podcasts, on doing on other shows on working with Bravo or NBC. So I don't have a 10 year plan. And I'll say this, maybe this will be the third tip. You don't need a plan. I think have an idea of where you like to go. But when you have this plan and you're very rigid with the plan, it's never going to work out where you think and when you set an expectation that you should meet and you don't meet it, which if you set very high expectations, they kill your resilience because you never meet them and they're actually bad for your confidence. They're confidence killers. So small victories, small goals, building towards something. So I have no 10 year plan.
- [64:08]
B
I loved talking to you. I so excited for everyone to go and get your book. Where can they find out more about you?
- [64:15]
A
Um, you can find me at Evie Pompous Greek name. Com. Just Google me. You'll see a whole ton of stuff come up. The book's on Amazon and on Audible.
- [64:24]
B
And yes, we're going to link everything below. Thank you, Evie for being part of the Neuro Experience podcast.
- [64:28]
A
Thank you so much for having me. Efradisto.
- [64:30]
B
Efradisto.