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The Overwhelmed Brain
How to be direct about someone's hurtful behavior without being confrontational
00:35:41
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Welcome to the Overwhelmed Brain Podcast. Helping you navigate the difficulties in your life and relationships. These are my personal opinions. Always seek a professional when you're making choices about your mental health and well being. Welcome to the show. Glad you are here. I was thinking about something that I talk about on my other podcast, Love and abuse over@loveandabuse.com if you don't listen to that. There's an important concept that I think applies to all kinds of relationships because we can be hurtful and harmful to other people without even realizing it and they can be hurtful and harmful to us without even realizing it. This concept came from my years of being passive aggressive. I was the people pleasing, passive aggressive person. Most people pleasers are actually passive aggressive because they they don't want to be seen as a bad guy. I never wanted to be seen as the bad guy because I had a fear of abandonment, a fear of rejection, and quite a number of dysfunctions. And I grew up with those dysfunctions and applied them to my adult relationships. And they don't work well at all, these kinds of dysfunctional behaviors. They don't work well because I lost good friendships and relationships in my life because I was expecting more from others and trying to make them show up in the way that made me more comfortable so I didn't have to change. And I mean, this is mostly romantic relationships, not so much friendships, but being the people pleaser. It caused me to become resentful when I wasn't getting as much as I was giving and my version of giving was overly accommodating and being extra nice to people in a way to gain their like or liking of me. I wanted them to like me. I did not want to be alone. And that's where that came from at a deep level, not wanting to be alone, not wanting to be rejected or abandoned. I had to be liked. And so I walked around with this people pleasing mentality and that really rubbed my romantic relationships the wrong way because a lot of people don't want somebody that's overly accommodating and always, well what I was clingy possessive because all these fears and insecurities that we bring in from childhood, most of the time, that's where they come from. They can create havoc in our adult relationships. So that's what happened to me. I brought in these dysfunctions and toxic behaviors into adult relationships and caused a lot of problems and I got resentful because nobody could ever give what I wanted them to give. And I always felt like I was giving them 10 times 100 times more than they were giving me because I was trying to get. I was giving, trying to get. This was not a no strings attached behavior. This was one that required something in return to make myself feel better, to make myself feel worthy and loved. And so I was seeking that for a long time in my life from friends and romantic relationships. And so the concept, this concept that I'm about to talk about comes from the lifetime I've had of trying to be liked and doing my best not to create conflict, because people pleasers do not like conflict. We try to avoid conflict at all costs. We don't want to speak up and tell somebody that they're doing something wrong or they're doing something hurtful or harmful. Like I started to say. And this is where the concept comes in. Some people do not know until you tell them that they're doing something harmful or hurtful. I guess it's the same term. If it's harmful, it probably hurts, but I'll probably end up using both interchangeably here. But what I want to say is that over at Love and Abuse, I talk about when there's an emotionally abusive person in your life, I think a good question for them is do you realize what you're saying or doing is hurtful or hurting me? Or do you realize what you're saying or doing is hurtful to me? It's a better way to put it. And the reason I like this question isn't because it's going to solve any problems, but what it does is A, it lets the other person know just in case they're clueless, and B, now that they know, what are they going to do with that information? This is the most important part. If they don't know and they just found out by you telling them, great, maybe you can work through it, maybe we can get somewhere with it. But after they know, after you've told them, what happens is now they are aware, now they are conscious of behaviors that you are telling them exist and also are hurtful or harmful to you. And now that they know, are they going to do the same behaviors again, knowing that they are hurtful to you, or are they going to refrain from doing that because they know it hurts you? Are they going to stop doing the behaviors because now they have been informed that those behaviors are hurtful to you? That is the big one. Because someone who has been told is now conscious and aware that their behaviors, what they do or what they say, whatever, has been hurtful to you, now that they are aware of it, they have to move forward, knowing that you know that they know, and that is key. If someone knows that they have been hurtful and moving forward means that if they do the same behaviors, they know they're being hurtful, what does that say about them if they continue to. To do the behaviors that is so important, to get straightened out. As a former people pleaser, conflict averse person, I never brought this up. I always wanted to be indirect about how someone was hurting me. One of my indirect messages, the way I conveyed it, was shutting down, withholding love, withholding connection, just shutting up and disconnecting from the person. And by disconnecting, I was hoping, and this is very passive aggressive, very manipulative, I was hoping that they would get it. And in my mind I'm thinking they're going to feel bad, they're going to feel guilty, they're going to change because I'm shutting down, because I'm showing them the consequence of their behaviors. But what happens is when you do a behavior that is supposed to be a message in return or in consequence for their behavior, and it's not clear and it's not direct, then you can create a toxic cycle, a dysfunctional toxic cycle that goes back and forth. And that's what happened to me for years, decades. I don't want you to be stuck in a cycle like that. The cycle you should be stuck in is, hey, let me tell you something directly. And the other person says, okay, I'm willing to hear it, let's talk about this. And then you have a good conversation on it. And then it either goes better after that or it gets worse or something. But at least something happens. And not stagnation, not the rut. I prefer direct. This is something my wife and I talk about sometimes. When we first started seeing each other within the first year or two, I think it was like the first year we had an issue where she wouldn't tell me something that was on her mind. And I didn't know something was on her mind because I was used to being more direct and she wasn't. She didn't feel safe to be direct with the people that she was romantically involved in because it never really worked out for her. It was. It caused problems and she tries to avoid, or she tried to avoid causing problems because everything else is really good, you know, everything else is going well, but nothing goes well when you can't connect with somebody because they are holding back and they can't open up, they don't feel safe around you, trust you. So what ends up happening is that you feel disconnected, and they're either cold or not looking at you. And that's where my wife was. She was in this cold, disconnected space, and I could not get through to her. And I finally stopped her one day, and I said, okay, you got to tell me what's going on. You got to tell me what's happening. You've not been looking at me. You don't want to kiss me. And I come into the door, and you don't even look my way. What's going on? What's happening? And she said nothing. I mean, literally, she said nothing. She didn't say nothing. She actually used the word nothing. And I said, something is going on. And I know it's true. Because, abc, you're not looking at me. You don't look at me when I come in the door. You don't want to kiss me. It's really weird. And that's not. It's not normal. So I know something's up. And if you want to know if something's up, just a hint, it's because you know something's up. I mean, there's no other way to say it. You know, something's different. You know something is different. And that's what I felt. Something's different. It's not right. I don't feel close to this person. What's going on? And so she said, nothing. And I said, yes, something. Something is going on. And she said, well, I don't want to bring it up because I don't want you to get mad or I don't want to cause any problem. I said, if you don't bring it up and it continues like this, it's going to cause problems. It's going to be a problem for us. Because I can't even look at you the same because you're not even looking at me. Let's talk about this. Let's bring it out in the open. And what I like to say now is, let's put it on the table. Let's just put it all out there and then see where it goes. And she was hesitant. She's like, I don't want to do that. That's not necessarily a good thing. I said, let's try it anyway. So she did. She finally spoke up, and she goes, well, here's the thing. And then we talked about it, and I said, okay, well, thank you for sharing that, because that really helps us get through this. I said something like that. It was about money. And I said, well, we can work on this. We can fix that. And she says, well, you're not mad? I said, no, I was much worse when you weren't talking to me. Now I'm happy that we actually have something to talk about. We brought it, or you brought it up. It's great. I had to pull it out of you. But you brought it up. And now we can talk about it. Now we can do something about it. Because when you have somebody that actually cares about you and doesn't want you to be unhappy, doesn't want you to be upset, and especially doesn't want you to be upset at them, they're willing to work things out. They're willing to balance things so they don't feel so lopsided. And one person's wondering what's going on. The other person's trying to hold back what they're really thinking. And I didn't like that feeling. So I told her, I want to know what's going on. Tell me. And so I literally pulled it out of her. And that was great, because she realized at that point that we can have these conversations without them spiraling into a dark, hurtful place where now we're both mad at each other. I don't want that. I would rather just be honest. And this is something else I've learned is I'd rather be honest at the risk of the relationship. I would rather be honest knowing it could risk her wanting to leave me. But I would rather be honest than hold something back because I think she might leave me if I tell her. And that's extreme. You know, when you love each other, there's a. I mean, in a romantic relationship or any friendship or family or whatever, when you love each other, hopefully your love can get through a lot of this difficulty, the difficult conversations. And so that's what I rely on. I rely on the big picture, that we do love each other and we want to be together. So let's get through these hard conversations. And so from that point on, our conversations were hard. And every time we had them, we got through some huge obstacle and we got closer. We became. Or at least it strengthened our bond, and we became closer. And that bond lasts to this day. And it built so much trust and feeling safe around one another that we can bring just about anything up now, not just anything. We can bring anything up and have a conversation on it, because it doesn't lead to I want a divorce. It doesn't lead to that, because we started doing this early on. Not that you can't start now if it's a long Time, but this is why I'm saying that. A question like, do you realize what you're doing? Or if they're saying something, what you're saying is hurtful, do you realize that? And if they say no, that's a great conversation to have. But what if they say, yes, I've had that happen. Not in my life, but somebody wrote to me and said, you know, that was a good question. I asked my boyfriend, I think she was saying, and I asked him, do you realize what you're saying to me is hurtful? And her boyfriend said, yes, I do. I don't think he said it that nonchalantly. And the follow up question I have, I mean, this is a shock. I know somebody actually said, yes, I do know it's hurtful. I mean, it was shocking to me when I read it. And maybe if it's your first time hearing this, it's probably a shock to you, but somebody admitted it, yes, I know it's hurtful. And so she asked the follow up question, why? Why are you doing this? And he said probably the most hurtful thing yet, which was because it's funny. It's not funny to her, it's hurtful. She just said it. And he said, because it's funny. It didn't take long. It actually might have been that day or the next. She broke up with him. That was it. She didn't want to stick around with that kind of energy, with that kind of person who thinks it's funny to hurt another person. And you know, he had an opportunity, he had an opportunity to say, you know what? I have been immature. I have been acting like a child, thinking it's funny that the things that I do. And now just realizing, and I didn't know this before, I'm now just realizing that I have been hurtful to you. I am so sorry. He didn't take that opportunity to even lie. I mean, that's what usually happens, right? But he just said, I think it's funny. And he probably is a child, at least in his maturity level, he probably is an immature, childlike person who thinks it's funny to prank or joke or hurt or whatever. The person he's supposed to love and supposed to make feel safe, supposed to be trusted by, and trust. There's supposed to be all these very important components of a relationship that he didn't seem to take seriously. And so she said, well, I'm leaving then because I don't want to be with somebody who thinks it's funny to hurt me. And I'M putting words in her mouth here, but I'm thinking that's probably what she said in her mind at least, and she could have told him out loud, but she took the steps to protect herself from someone who didn't protect her. Because I think that is kind of our purpose when we're with other people. At least one of our purposes is we are supposed to care about them so much that we do our best to protect them. And if we are the person that is the harmful one to them, that is the opposite of what I feel like we are supposed to be doing. I mean, I know we're not supposed to be hurting people we care about, we shouldn't be hurting anyone, but especially the people we care about. And so that question, do you realize what you're doing or saying is hurtful is important because if they say no, I'm repeating myself here, but I'm going to say it again, you can have a hard conversation on it and hopefully it goes well and hopefully they get it and, and say, wow, I won't do that anymore. That's the goal. Make them stop doing the thing that is hurtful. Wow, I won't do that anymore. I'm so sorry. That would be a great answer. Let's go from there. And then they absolutely shouldn't do what they're doing to hurt you anymore. But what if they say, yes, yes, I know I'm hurtful. You might end up where this person is. They might be knowingly hurting you and that tells you who you're with, that tells you who they are. And if they say yes, then you have to accept that that's who they are and don't bother trying to change them because that means they were conscious of it before you even asked. So I mean, that doesn't mean they can't change. That just means that's who they've been. And it's important for you to know that. If you're a therapist listening right now, you know your work doesn't end when the session does. I recently had a marathon session myself, several hours long. And afterward I realized just how much I needed to document and organize before my next client. Now, I didn't have back to back sessions that day, but it hit me how crucial it is to be prepared without spending hours on admin between appointments. That's why I appreciate simple practice. It's an all in one EHR that's HIPAA compliant, high Trust certified and built specifically for therapists. It brings scheduling, billing, insurance and client communication into one place. So you're not juggling multiple systems. Automated appointment reminders help reduce no shows and note templates make documentation faster so the business side of your practice feels lighter. There's even a credentialing service that takes the headache out of insurance enrollment. So if you're ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try Simple Practice. Start with a seven day free trial, then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to SimplePractice.com to claim the offer. Again, that's SimplePractice.com. Now let's go back to the no. Let's just say that they say no, I didn't know I was hurtful. Here's the part where they are now conscious of it and going forward being conscious of it. They either have to stop the behavior because they care about you, or if they do the behavior again, they're doing it knowing they're hurtful to you. Which again tells you who they are. And it is prudent. I think it is very prudent for you to tell yourself this is who they are. They know they are hurting me and they do it anyway. So when you have somebody that consciously does behaviors or says hurtful things and you know that they know that you know, then you have somebody that doesn't care enough about you to stop. And that's just. It's an awful thing for me to say. I don't really want to say that because I know when I was like this, when I was being hurtful, that I believed I cared. That I cared so much about that person that I never wanted them to leave. I never wanted them to go away. And that I believe that no one else could love them more than I could love them. It's all dysfunction that I'm coming from that dysfunctional place back then. But that was my belief. I believed I loved this person. But I wasn't defining love in a healthy way. I was defining love as. As long as you do what I say, we'll both be happy. That is very toxic. And what I learned is that love is really about wanting the other person to be happy and supporting that happiness. And if you are doing behaviors knowing that you are hurtful, that is the opposite of wanting someone to be happy. And the same thing. I mean, if they're doing it to you, that is the opposite of wanting you to be happy, which is the opposite of. Of love. I'm not saying that somebody hates you or somebody dislikes you. I'm not saying that at All I'm saying that their definition of love, how they've been taught to love, how they've been conditioned to love, is probably flawed or very likely flawed. Unless they're doing it purposefully. If they're doing it purposefully, entirely different scenario. Someone who hurts you purposefully doesn't like you. If that hurts, I'm so sorry. But you are definitely worthy of a lot better behavior than that. Don't think you're worthy of that kind of behavior, because you're not. Nobody should be mistreated like that. It's just that there are mistreaters out there. There are misbehaviors out there. And some people do things for selfish reasons without realizing just how much damage they're doing to people that matter. That the people that matter, the people who we should be caring the most for, sometimes get neglected. And it's not because you're unworthy, you're unlovable. It's none of that. It's because they don't know how to do it right. They don't know how to do it in a healthy way. I can only say this because I've been there. If I was outside that box, if I never experienced what it was like to be the person that did these awful things, then I probably would look at them and say, they're a bunch of jerks. Run away. And maybe that's good advice anyway. I mean, when the people in my life ran away, it taught me a lesson for sure. But I've learned that there are two kinds of people that are hurtful, at least primarily. Two kinds of people that are hurtful. Ones that do it and know they do it and don't care. And ones that do it because they don't know how to do it right. The people who try to love aren't doing it right, but believe they're right because of how they've been conditioned or what they learned in childhood. Because I talked about this over at Love and Abuse. But emotionally abusive behavior comes from childhood survival. A child has to learn how to survive in challenging situations in childhood. And because they're not taught. I mean, if they're not taught proper coping mechanisms, then they make up their own. Or they learn from another adult through role modeling. And if they learn improperly, like I did, I learned how to be a people pleaser from my mom. I learned how to have no boundaries and avoid conflicts, just like my mom. I brought those into my adult relationships, which caused a lot of problems. And so these childhood survival mechanisms that turn into adult coping Mechanisms are what create an unhealthy version of how to relate and love other people. This isn't an excuse. I mean, if somebody's being a jackass, you know, if they're being a jerk, they are being a jerk. And they need to be told. This is why. I like the question. Do you realize what you're doing or saying is hurtful? Because it gives them an opportunity to empower themselves with the appropriate, healthy, loving, kind steps to take instead of the unhealthy ones they continue taking. Because some of us need a kick in the butt. That's one thing I love about my wife. When we met, she said, if you ever did those behaviors with me, I would have kicked you to the curb. And she's talking about who I used to be in my previous relationships because I told her everything. I told her this is who I was. This is what I am healing inside myself. I will never be that person again because I don't like that person. And even when we first met, I told her I'm not ready for a relationship. I said, I'm going to stay single for a while because I need to work on myself. And so she was a friend of mine for many, many months until we decided, okay, you know, I've done a lot of work on myself. I mean, I was working on it for a year, but after my divorce was final, we just stayed friends, and I was even encouraging her and supporting her, dating other people, like, go find someone, and I want you to be in a great relationship because we weren't romantically involved. And so months and months went by, and finally I said, well, maybe I'm ready now. Maybe this is it. I feel really good. I no longer feel the urge to change someone else. In fact, I only feel the urge to accept them as they are. That was something I learned that was probably the key to my healing. Like a year before is like a year and a half before actually, where choosing to accept someone as they are and even accepting the changes they make and the decisions they make for their life, for themselves is how you love someone. It is accepting who they are and supporting their path to happiness. However that path is laid out before them or whatever choices they make to get to a happy place inside themselves, to feel better inside themselves. Because what do we do when somebody changes? We resist sometimes. What are you doing? You want to do that instead of do this? Oh, I don't like that at all. You want to start wearing orange leather pants? I don't know about that. But if my wife said That I don't know, I don't know what I would do about that. If she really wanted to do something that felt tacky to me, I might say, well, if you really want to do that, I am all for it. That's probably what I would say. But you know, you can have these conversations and that's, that's a really minor example. But the point is, if I choose to accept the decisions that she makes for herself, then overall she's happier. And because she's happier, my life's happier. It really comes back around. What goes around comes around. So I've learned that accepting someone as they are, trying not to change them, trying not to control them, letting them make the decisions that allow their happiness, allow happiness to come into their life in the way they want it is a way to love them. So it is basically coming down to supporting what makes them happy, supporting the path they take to happiness, and letting them be who they are. And so if you have somebody in your life that is trying to change or control you, or in this case hurt you and they don't know it, that's why I think they should know it. I don't think we should be a people pleaser. I don't think we should be passive aggressive in telling somebody what they're doing. If it's a pattern, I mean, it's a one off, it's no big deal. But if it's a pattern, I mean, it might be a big deal to you, but most one offs aren't a big deal. You get through it, you deal with it. But if it's a pattern, somebody's always being hurtful or harmful or making jokes at your expense, or embarrassing you or insulting you or guilting you or whatever they're doing that hurts inside or feels bad in some way, I think they should know about it. Because when they know about it, at least you can do something about it. From that point on, if they don't know about it, they could be dense like I was at one time. I was dense. I didn't understand, I didn't know I was doing it. Even now my wife says, let me tell you something directly because you're not getting it. And I listen. I may resist, but I listen and I say, oh, I didn't. I might say this, I might say, like, I didn't realize I was doing that, I'm sorry. And it usually goes, that's it. We usually have a conversation and things are straightened out and then we're stronger because of it. And that has happened A few times in our relationship right now we're at a good place, so it doesn't really happen too much at all because we're pretty honest about everything. But when it comes up, it's important that we listen. And the same with her, you know, do you realize you're doing this? And it's rare with her, though. I never have to tell her. She's pretty much. She pretty much wears everything on her sleeve. She's pretty direct, which is something. Again, I really appreciate about her. So my whole point of this episode is just knowing that it's okay to bring something up and sometimes it's necessary because the other person may not know. Especially if you define yourself as. As a more passive person, as conflict averse, then you're more likely to have something like this show up in your relationships. You are more likely to have conflict in your relationship, persistent conflict in your relationship, because you never bring it up. Or if you bring it up, it's very passive or passive aggressive in a sense that you try to give them the message that they're being hurtful or harmful, but you do it in a way that you hope will they'll be able to read your mind. And that never goes well. Hoping someone will read your mind or hoping someone will get the message. When the message isn't direct and the problem is consistent and persistent. It never goes away until you are direct. That's why I like that question and I hope this has been helpful. Thanks for listening to another episode of the Overwhelmed Brain. I want to thank Steven. I'm going to take this time to thank Steven, who has been a patron of mine, of the show, I guess, for the last decade. It's been a long time. Every month he has given and I just want to acknowledge him. Thank you so much, Steven. I don't even know if you listen to the show anymore, but a long time ago we had a conversation on the phone and he, he's just a greatest guy. So I appreciate him. Thank you, Stephen, and everyone that gives to the show through the patron program or donates or however you give. I am very grateful. If you find value in the show and you want to give back, head over to MoreToB.com and there are options to do that over there. And you heard me talk about it earlier. It's my other podcast, if you want to listen to that, it's over@loveandabuse.com it is how to deal with a difficult relationship, especially in the realm of emotionally abusive, manipulative and controlling behaviors. And it's very important show. If you are in one of those or you have a toxic friend, a toxic relative, a toxic partner, go to loveandabuse.com and you will learn a lot about how to deal with them and what to do about it. Now if you are the toxic one, if you are the person that is very difficult in the relationship and you can't accept the person that you're with or at least you're having trouble, I understand where you are. That's where I was. I have built an entire program to help you through it and out of it so you can heal and change so that you can get to that point where you can have strong, loving, long lasting relationships. Go to healed being.com if you're looking for something like that. And with that, always keep your mind open because that's how you make the best decisions. And I want you to be firm in your decisions and actions so that you can create the life you want. Always take steps to grow and evolve. You are powerful beyond measure and above all, and this is something I absolutely know to be true about you. You are amazing. Sam. Ra.