← The Overwhelmed Brain
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Welcome to the Overwhelmed Brain Podcast, helping you navigate the difficulties in your life and relationships. These are my personal opinions. Always seek a professional when you're making choices about your mental health and well being. What a peaceful intro. Just changed it recently and I enjoy it. I like it. I think I talked about this recently. I remember reading this message that I got and talking about betrayal and cheating and things like that. Oh, I know what it was. I was answering a post. So I didn't talk about this maybe on the show, but I think I answered that and maybe in the Healed Being group where I help emotionally abusive people heal and change. It's a program I run in case you are interested in that. It's over@HealedBeing.com but this person wrote to me and asked me about her marriage and she said that she cheated in her marriage and her husband caught her and they split up. And then she came back and he decided to give it another chance. And she, I'm assuming, doesn't do this anymore and is, I'm assuming, apologetic. She didn't really fill in those details for me, but she said that ever since she has come back and I don't know how many months or years it's been, but he always brings it up and he's always accusing her of cheating again. So there's a few ways to look at this. Some people think once a cheater, always a cheater. And some people think that once you get caught, that means you would have kept going. If you didn't get caught, that's probably valid. If you're not caught, would you keep going? Because if one chooses to cheat but chooses not to tell the person they're with that they've cheated and they don't stop cheating, then it's quite likely that the cheating will continue. That's usually how it works. And then there are those who feel so bad and feel so guilty that they have to stop the cheating and then share with their partner that they we're doing that. And when that happens, there's less likely or probably the least likely chance that the people who confess cheat again. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying if they feel guilty enough and they feel that shame rise up in them and they stop what they're doing and they decide to tell their partner, start decide to be honest because their subconscious mind is eating away at them, then those are the ones that, at least from what I've seen, those are the ones that don't typically cheat again. So that's what puts certain people in a certain category. If you're caught doing something, then you are more likely to be less trusted if you fess up. If you stop doing what you're doing and you fess up, you're more likely to have trust build again or at least build faster. This doesn't mean that if somebody's caught that they will automatically cheat again. Because sometimes you have to be caught in order to make the changes that you need to make. And this doesn't always mean that the betrayer, the cheater has to be the only one to change. Sometimes the relationship needs help. Sometimes both people in the relationship need to work things out because things weren't great in the first place. I have heard from people who cheated when things were great in the first place. So it's not that when they're not great, it doesn't happen. It just happens much, much less often. God, I hope. I hope it happens less often in good, healthy, whatever, quote, healthy relationships. Because it would be nice to be able to let your guard down and enjoy the relationship 100%. And how do you enjoy a relationship 100%? A couple of the major components are trust and security. You feel secure with the person like you know that they are safe to be with. And trusting them means that they could talk to somebody that is attractive to them and you'd be okay with it. You wouldn't have a problem with it, and they could even tell you, wow, that person was attractive. And you probably wouldn't care because you trust them. That's the only kind of relationship I'll be in. So if I did not have that trust for my wife, I probably wouldn't be in this relationship. There is an in between the lines there. The in between is if you're in a relationship that doesn't have trust, you have to ask yourself why and what you value. This doesn't mean it's easy to get out of some relationships. I know there are a lot of commitments and things that are tied up, but that is a good question. If trust is on your list of the top values in a relationship, which it is for me, and trust isn't there, why are you in that relationship? And again, this excludes the difficulty of getting out. I understand that. And sometimes it takes some planning and sometimes it feels hard or impossible to do. But I'm talking about if you are with somebody that you can't trust or you don't feel safe with, then I have to ask you, what are your top values in a relationship? In other words, what what is most important to you about a relationship? And I tell you what, out of the top five most important things to me about a relationship, one of them is honesty, one of them is trust, and one of them is enjoying our time together. And if I don't have those top three values met, then the others don't matter because there are other values that we have in our relationships that might be met. You might have like 10 things that are important to you in a relationship. And if the top three aren't met but the seven others are, if you're counting to 10, if the seven others are met, then is that enough to override the importance of those top three values? Or even top one value? Like what is the most important aspect or component of a relationship to you? And what typically happens is the most important thing to us is typically the deal breaker. So if you have something that is so important to you about relationships and that gets violated or not met, that should be the deal breaker. But sometimes it's not. Sometimes that value or those top values aren't met. And some people say, well, everything else is great, I'll just keep chugging along here and hope it works out. And here's the thing. I don't know if you've ever heard of my Stop Self Sabotage workbook, but in that workbook I talk about if your top values aren't met. And I just said this, but I'm going to say it again. If your top values aren't met in any area of life, the rest of it is very, very, very unlikely to work out in that area of life. So if in my relationship, if honesty, if trust, if getting along and enjoying each other's time, if there's no laughter, if none of these are met and those are some of my top values, then even if everything else is wonderful, it wouldn't matter. Because it's a trickle down thing where you start at the top. And if honesty is at the top, or respect, or even sex, if sex is at the top, if that's not working, or if that's not met and you have all these other values down the list that are not as important as your top values, then it usually doesn't work out. And what I mean by that is you could stay in a relationship for a long time without those top values met, but you'll never be as happy as you could be. And when you're not as happy as you could be, you don't enjoy the relationship. You just exist or get by or you're roommates or you're just unhappy. And you learn to live with it, you learn to be okay with it. That is your new normal. And so when I hear from people that have had infidelity in their relationship, the reason it's so impactful, the reason it hits people so hard, is because it violates one of the highest values in most people's relationships. If you value trust at the top and someone betrays you, betrays that trust, it's like a breakdown. That trickle down that happens from the top down is like the key that holds everything together. And if you bust that key, if you break it in half, then the rest of it falls apart. And when the rest of it falls apart, it's hard to meet that value again unless a lot of stuff happens. I actually talk about this in an article called Infidelity. If you go to theoverwhelmedbrain.com infidelity, I get right into that, very deep into it. And I talk about Both partners have to go through a healing process. And that healing process involves the rebuilding of love and safety and trust and all the values that make up most romantic relationships. And in most romantic relationships that experience infidelity, a rebuilding or restarting of the relationship is required, and it can't be the same as it was. So if you did the same things over and over again and you had the same conversations over and over again, and you had the same arguments over and over again, it can't be that way again. It has to be different. Because where you were is how you got there in the first place. And what needs to change, obviously, is more transparency and complete and utter honesty. Especially in the beginning, after you healing from infidelity or if you choose to work on the relationship together, there is like a year that's typically my timeline, a year of rebuilding trust and becoming completely honest and transparent with each other. And yeah, that's mostly aimed toward the infidel, but both people, like, even when the victim of infidelity has something to say, they say it. Even if it risks the other person getting angry, even if it risks the relationship. And this is why some relationships that experience infidelity can actually heal and change and grow into the strongest relationships ever, because they rebuilt it from the ground up and show up now as completely different people. So that transparency and that honesty is how trust is rebuilt. I mean, it's more than that, but that is a good start for sure. But these are the values that we carry with us, and we have them in all these areas of life. In particular, when I talk about Infidelity and cheating and any kind of betrayal that violates a high level value in you. Some people love want to know if it's possible to heal and even save the relationship from there. And in my experience, I've seen it, yes, it is possible. But when it happens, there are huge changes and there's a lot of suffering. In the beginning, there's a lot of suffering and throughout the first year there's suffering because it comes up. And when it comes up, it's painful. And the person who was hurt is going to look at the person who hurt them and ask them, why would you do this? And that person is going to have to answer for it every time. And that's just how this whole process works. Now, I do want to talk about this person who wrote to me. She said that she was married for a good 20 plus years and she said that he discovered that she was cheating and after a year they separated for a few months and then she returned home. But since then he cycles between showing love and being emotionally and verbally abusive. When she tries to discuss her feelings, he accuses her of cheating again and gets angry. She notes that he's also damaged the marriage. She caught him before he cheated in the past but forgave him. She feels she can never be good enough and is exhausted. And now she's using grey rock instead of engaging in their usual circular arguments. If you don't know, grey rock is something that victims of emotional abuse use so they don't show emotion to the person who abuses their emotion, so they become like a dull gray rock. It's very effective if you're around somebody who will read your emotional state, sense your emotional state, or you express your emotional state because they know how to use your emotions against you. So becoming an emotionless person around them, not having the reactions or responses that you used to have, gives them nothing to work with and feed off of. I'm not saying that it's a pleasant way to be. A lot of people have very difficult time trying to do this. But sometimes you don't want to give somebody any emotional fuel to feed off of because they're toxic and you don't want to deal with their toxicity. So this is what she means by grey rock. And so she avoided the circular arguments. And she believes that he's a covert narcissist who won't do real therapy or marriage counseling. Despite struggling with manic depression and suicidal thoughts. She left once, which was incredibly hard, but he wouldn't leave and she came back hoping that Things would change. And she said she originally cheated because she thought he didn't love her anymore but wouldn't divorce her. So she's writing to thank me. This is really not a question from her, but she's writing to thank me. And she said both podcasts have helped her understand why people tolerate certain behaviors and why she can't just leave and why she came back. And she's working on understanding herself and healing, taking baby steps forward. Wow. I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that. Thank you for sharing that. And it sounds like she's still in this relationship, and she offered up the reason that she cheated because there didn't seem to be any more love left, and he didn't want to leave. So she felt like she had no other choice but to find love somewhere else. And I'm not trying to make that excuse for her. And I'm not saying, hey, that's a perfectly valid reason for anybody to do it. No, we all have our own reasons for the things we do. And so I'm sharing this message because a lot of relationships have experienced infidelity, and there are many, many reasons why it happens. I heard from one person who said the abuse was so bad in their relationship, they felt they were just unloved and unworthy of love in general. And then when somebody showed them love outside the marriage, they went for it, and that felt good to them, and it was a reprieve and a relief to be away from the abusive person for a while. It's a challenging topic because I know my own values don't allow this. I know my own values don't allow a betrayal. But I also know that if I was just a jackass, if I was just a jerk all the time, it wouldn't surprise me if my wife went and cheated, because what is she getting from me? She's not getting the love and support that she deserves, so she might have to find it elsewhere. Now, I also have personal opinions on cheating, and I believe that it's 100% better to end the relationship before you get into another one. So that is my personal philosophy, my personal, personal doctrine, or whatever you want to call it. And that's what I follow. Like, if I felt like I really had to have somebody else in my life, I wouldn't be with my wife anymore, or I would break up. I would separate. I would do something, because my loyalty lies here. It lies with her. But I can say that easily because we have a great relationship. But if she was horrible to me, I'm sure I would think differently. Does that mean I would cheat? No. I would probably find a way out of the relationship, because I'm going to start at my values. Is what's most important to me about a relationship being met? Because if those important things aren't being met, then of course I'm going to bring them up and find out if they can be met and if they can't. You know, we've tried everything. Then maybe this relationship isn't for me. And I know I just talk about that flippantly. We don't have kids together, so that makes it easier if I wanted to just back away. But I'm not the type of person that just backs away. I want to work on this until there's no possible way it can be worked on. I'm going to exhaust all my resources. But in the end, if the values aren't being met, do I want to spend the rest of my time on this earth with somebody that I'm not happy with? And it's a fair question to her as well. If my values aren't being met, maybe she's unhappy, too. And maybe she doesn't want to spend the rest of her time on this earth with somebody that she's not happy with. And maybe we're both afraid to leave or we're both afraid to tell our truths because we don't want to hurt the other person, or maybe we don't care about hurting the other person, but we don't want to be inconvenienced by leaving. A number of reasons that could come up. And this is what makes relationships so complex. Sometimes relationships are already difficult in many ways. And when you introduce another complexity like infidelity, it becomes a nightmare. Sometimes it brings in another layer of difficulty that who wants to deal with. And I'm sure it's not the first thing on most people's mind when they get into a relationship, but these things happen, and so we have to talk about them. I know there are people listening now who have experienced it, who have done it themselves, and maybe they're listening with their loved one now and holding their breath, hoping that this doesn't turn into a terrible conversation after the podcast is over. And if you are someone who has experienced betrayal or has been the betrayer and you are working on things, I apologize for bringing this up because it is a very touchy subject. At the same time, you should be able to bring it up. You should be able to talk about this. It shouldn't get swept under the rug it should be talked about. It doesn't mean you bring it up all the time. It just means if there are still very hard feelings that are being dealt with and you haven't gotten past those hard feelings, and I'm mostly talking to the victims of infidelity here, then it's important to bring it up. You do have to bring it up. And in this case with the person who wrote to me, she was the infidel, she was the one who cheated. And she, she has feelings. When I used to work with clients one on one, I had so many systems working for me at once. I had an app to take notes. I had another app with their contact info. I would send them invoices from another app. And I didn't even have all the regulations that therapists have to follow. If you're a therapist listening right now, you know how overwhelming it can be. You already know that your work doesn't end when the session does. All the admin that happens before and after the work that you actually care about. That's why I'm happy to share with you Simple Practice Simple Practice is an all in one EHR that is HIPAA compliant, high trust certified, and built specifically for therapists. It brings scheduling, billing, insurance and client communication into one place so that you're not juggling multiple systems. Automated appointment reminders help reduce no shows and note templates make documents faster so the business side of your practice feels lighter. And if you're just starting out or growing your practice, there's a credentialing service that takes the headache out of insurance enrollment. If you're ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try Simple Practice. Start with a seven day free trial and then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to SimplePractice.com to claim the offer. Again, that's SimplePractice.com. Are her feelings valid? That's what some people might ask. And the answer is absolutely. The answer is yes. Because if she is willing to admit she did wrong and make a commitment to never doing that again and make a commitment to the relationship because they're both willing to work on it, that's a different scenario. It's a different scenario than the person who cheats and then comes back to the relationship and doesn't really care that they were caught or how the person feels about the cheating, that type of person is probably going to do it again. If they don't care how the other person feels about it or they don't care that they were caught or whatever, there might be consequences there if you continue that relationship. I'm not talking about everyone here but the infidel who doesn't feel bad after they do it and in fact blames the other person for doing it. Like, I wouldn't have cheated if you were nicer to me. Then that leaves a pretty big question mark there of what's going to happen next. And I know the person who wrote to me probably thinks I'm talking to her. And the truth is I'm not necessarily talking to anyone in particular. I'm just talking generalities. Generally speaking, the person who blames another person for they themselves going out and being the betrayer, being the infidel, and that is not taking responsibility. And someone who doesn't take responsibility, expect them to do it again. And I'm talking about any behavior, not just cheating, expect someone who doesn't take responsibility for what they did wrong or what they did that was hurtful to do it again. Without responsibility, there's probably no remorse and there's probably no guilty conscience. And without those, the chances are high that whatever someone did to you to hurt you, they will probably do it again. And so let me get back to this person's message again. She's not really asking a question, but I do want to highlight a few things. When you have somebody who is struggling with manic depression and suicidal thoughts, there's a layer of mental health that needs to be addressed before the relationship can really experience any growth. And if that layer of mental health isn't addressed, it seeps into the relationship and it becomes part of the relationship. This is why I believe in bringing the best version of yourself into a relationship. And if you can't do that, you should probably address those things. This doesn't mean you can't get into a relationship. If you have any mental deficiencies or emotional challenges or old trauma or anything like that, that doesn't mean that at all. It just means you have to be prepared that when somebody has a layer of mental health they need to deal with that might seep into the relationship. The preparation is a knowing that it could be a problem or a challenge in the relationship. Someone who's dealing with manic depression and suicidal thoughts that will seep into the relationship, it does affect the partner, it does affect the other person. And because of that, a lot of the relationship issues will be centered around those, what I might call high priority issues. Those kinds of issues are high priority that is one step away from a mental breakdown or death. Because if somebody has suicidal thoughts, what's the next step? I mean, if they go through with it, that is so close to the biggest challenge. You might have to deal with that. That kind of high priority layer or level in a relationship has to be dealt with before the relationship can really grow. Because otherwise, like I said, it seeps into the relationship and causes a challenge in the relationship. Now again, this doesn't mean the relationship can't exist. Some people get together and create a relationship where one or both have issues that they need to deal with, but they're pretty self contained. Meaning each person is dealing with their own stuff. And yes, each person may share that stuff with the other person and the other person can even be helpful and support. I believe in that. And it has happened in my relationship because my wife has had to deal with a lot of old trauma, old trauma from childhood. And that has come up in the relationship. I've had my own stuff come up in the relationship and she's really good at pointing it out. And when it comes up, I share it and we talk about it and we get through it. That kind of thing that comes up in the relationship, your own stuff that you can talk about and get through, it's not necessarily an inhibitor to happiness in both people. What becomes the inhibitor or what prevents happiness is when someone's stuff cannot be worked through in the relationship because it's so impactful in the person. So the manic depression, the suicidal thoughts, if that's not dealt with in the person, then that seeping can occur. Like I was saying, what does all this have to do with. What I'm talking about here today is the person who wrote, she said her partner is dealing with things that he doesn't want to go to therapy for. And that's fine if he can deal with it, but it doesn't sound like he can deal with it. There's that. Part of what I wanted to talk about is that sometimes you have to kind of accept that a person's issues might not be something that a relationship can tolerate. They might not be something the relationship can withstand. So that just needs to be understood. That just needs to be something that you process when you're in a relationship or before you get into a relationship like that, because you don't want to become another person's therapist. I mean, unless you are a therapist, but you don't want to become someone that has to be someone's caregiver, therapist, soul support system, where it drains you. And that will definitely become a problem because then where is your energy? Where does your energy go? It goes towards someone else. And if all your energy is going toward them. This is why a relationship cannot usually withstand person's issues that overcome and overwhelm the relationship itself. So it's important to understand and accept that there are issues that if they aren't dealt with in the person that it could be a big problem for the relationship. So there's that part of it. I just wanted to get that sort of out of the way because of what she said. Because I hear this from people who write to me and they'll say, oh my so and so has this condition and they refuse to get help. I hear that a lot. They refuse to get help. So what does that mean? That means whatever they're dealing with enters the relationship as another issue. You got to be prepared for that, unfortunately. And a lot of relationships are not that tolerant or resilient where they could survive that. It just becomes a part of the bigger issue of problems in the relationship. So the other part of this is her being the infidel in this case and then coming back. So everyone has their own thoughts and opinions and values about infidelity. Some people will say, once it happens, I'm done, it's over. I never want to deal with that person again. They betrayed me. I can't trust them ever again. Totally fine, if that's what you think. That's kind of how I think. And is that once there is infidelity, then the trust is broken. And then there are some people that say, well, you know, I should have treated them better and I should have paid more attention and I'm willing to accept them back as long as they commit to never doing that again and commit to the relationship and are fully transparent. So that we talked about that earlier. It's a matter of personal preference and personal opinion and personal values that get involved. Someone's decision to work on the relationship, which is perfectly fine, to each their own. Absolutely. But when there's a decision to work on the relationship, here's where things need to be a certain way after a certain period of time. In the beginning, it's going to be hard. There's going to be a lot of suffering. There's going to be a lot of challenging conversations and that needs to happen. Like I was saying, it needs to happen. These challenging conversations that are so honest that they could cost a relationship. They need to happen. And again, I get more into infidelity in my article. Theoverwhelmedbrain.com infidelity or just use the search bar there and you'll find it under infidelity. It's an important article to read if you are dealing with infidelity or any type of betrayal, really, because it kind of falls in line with lot of betraying behaviors. At least the aftermath. And the aftermath is what we're talking about here. Whereas this person, this woman went back to her relationship and her aftermath is her husband is bringing it up, he's angry and accuses her of cheating again and is using that, and this is my belief, is using that as a method to keep her feeling down, keep her feeling positive, powerless. And he's using that as a method to control her. So somebody might say, well, she deserves some of this treatment because of what she did. And I'm not totally against someone being angry and someone saying, you're cheating on me again. And I'm not totally against the doubt that comes. But this is my. It's a loose rule, but it's a pretty good rule. My loose rule is within the first year, all of this is allowed. All of this should be just spoken up about and expressed and anger and crying and grieving. All of this stuff is allowed in the first year. But after the first year, if the trust hasn't built and the victim of the infidelity is still in a space of blaming and accusing and they haven't healed, they haven't felt like they could trust again or feel safe around the other person again, then it will never end. The doubt and the mistrust will never end. So this person didn't tell me how long that she's been dealing with this from her husband. But if it's been over a year, then it's going to continue. That's my personal and professional opinion, is that if it doesn't, if the anger doesn't decrease, if the accusations don't decrease, if the conversations aren't getting more connected, if you aren't more connected with each other within typically six months, but it can last up to a year. If that doesn't happen, if that healing doesn't take place within a year, then it doesn't take place. It just doesn't happen. And it continues and it will continue. And, and this brings me to my point for this person is that if this has been over a year or it has been six months, or at least past six months, and there's been zero progression, zero building connection, zero getting closer again, feeling safer, feeling trusting again, if there has been no progression whatsoever, again, there will not be. And because of that, because There had been no progression whatsoever. If you have somebody who's still angry and still bitter and still accusing, then you are at the point where there's nothing you can do. You are at a standstill in the growth and the healing. If there was even any. So even the person who has betrayed some people might think, well, they should pay for that forever, and that's how it should work. Because if they did that, then their partner should definitely be angry at them until the end of time. Whereas I believe if you haven't made any progress within that six months to a year, then staying together is pointless, in my opinion, because you're not getting any farther. Again, it's about progress. It doesn't mean you're fully healed. You could have emotional triggers three years later, four years later, it can happen later things will remind you of that time, and you still have to heal things from that time. But the frequency of those triggers decreases over time. And if that decreasing hasn't happened, then you're stuck in that state. That cycle of anger and accusation and upset and triggering, all of that just repeats over and over again. So if you're in a situation like that where you were the infidel, you were the betrayer, and the other person cannot get past it, don't expect them to. And also honor where they are, because the victim has gone through a lot. Honor that they need to be there, and also honor that they may never get out of that space. And what I mean by honor is just choosing to accept that that's where they are, and that if that's where they need to be, you won't convince them otherwise. So if they are in that space and they're upset and you accept that that's where they need to be or want to be, and they can't get past it, then what needs to happen next is you need to make a decision that works for you. So if the other person cannot get past it, and you've done your best to rebuild trust and you've done everything to show them that you are not the same person that you were and you would never do that thing again, and they still cannot see it, they still cannot progress from there, then it's up to you now to make a decision that's right for you. What does that mean? It means whatever it means to you. It might mean leaving. It might mean saying, I honor where you are, but I can't be in this space with you anymore if you can't come to trust me. And if they say, why should I trust you then you know where they are. Like, if they're never going to get any further than that, they're not going to get any further than that. So to the person who wrote, I think you already know this because you didn't say that you were trying to make things work anymore. You, you kind of said that, I understand why it's difficult to stay. I understand why it's difficult to leave, and I understand why I came back because of probably a trauma bond and you felt like maybe it would work out. And you probably also have a very high level of compassion and empathy toward people and especially toward the closest people in your life. So you also saw his suffering as something that you can certainly feel bad for him or sympathetic for him and want to help him, maybe, or hope that your presence will bring him up and make him more, make him feel happier and more positive. So all of that plays a role of why we might stay in a relationship like this. But it's vital to know if the relationship is going to progress and heal at all after a certain period point. And I've given you my timeline. It doesn't mean it's a hard and fast rule. It's just something I've seen over and over again and something that I believe is useful. It is useful to know or at least have a comparison of what you're going through, what you've been through, and what to expect. To the person who wrote, thank you so much for that and I hope you got something from today's episode. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Overwhelmed Brain. I want to thank our patrons this week, Christy, Anna, Sandra, Deborah and Tammy. I love seeing all your names. Thank you so much for giving every month and making me feel humbled, making me feel so good that you are a part of supporting this show and what I do over here. Thank you again, patrons and everyone that donates to this show. If you value this show like these patrons do and you want to give back, you can head over to moretlb.com and. And there are options to do that over there. And for a show on how to navigate the difficult relationship, listen to my other podcast called Love and abuse over@loveandabuse.com and if you know you're the difficult one in the relationship, join the program that is helping thousands of people heal over at Healed. Being calm and with that, always keep your mind open because that's how you make the best decisions. Be firm in your decision, decisions and actions so that you can create the life you want. Always take steps to grow and evolve. You are powerful beyond measure. And above all, and this is something I absolutely know to be true about you. You are amazing, Sa. Sam.