Breaking Toxic Parenting Cycles You May Not Know You're Repeating

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Parent Chat with Dylan Dreyer

Episode: Breaking Toxic Parenting Cycles You May Not Know You're Repeating

Date: May 14, 2026
Host: Dylan Dreyer
Guest: Dr. Shefali Tsabary (Clinical Psychologist, Bestselling Author, "The Conscious Parent")

---

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and eye-opening episode, Dylan Dreyer welcomes Dr. Shefali Tsabary to explore the subtle, often unnoticed ways that parenting patterns and cycles—especially toxic or unhelpful ones—repeat across generations. Together, they delve into concepts like the “fixer,” “fighter,” and “freezer,” discuss how guilt shapes parenting, and encourage listeners to recognize, question, and ultimately break automatic patterns inherited from their own upbringing. Full of candid stories, practical advice, and plenty of laughs and relatable moments, this episode is a must for anyone striving to parent more consciously.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Unconscious Parenting Patterns

• Dr. Shefali introduces the concept: When she began speaking about conscious parenting 15-20 years ago, parents were considered unquestionable authorities and children's obedience was demanded. She refers to this as a “tyrannical” approach (03:52).
  • Quote: “No one questioned the parents' superiority. I mean, really, that is the making of a tyrant.” – Dr. Shefali Tsabary (03:55)
• Dylan’s Reflection: Shares her own childhood memory about the “wooden spoon” threat, illustrating learned fear and respect as discipline tools (04:25).
  • Quote: “The threat of the wooden spoon was always there… I needed to, you know, know my place at the table.” – Dylan Dreyer (04:25)
• Questioning the Old Ways: Dr. Shefali challenges the idea that fear is necessary or the only way to teach children.
  • “Couldn’t there have been another way? Many of us get uncomfortable questioning our parents’ ways… It shows up in our life now.” (05:51)

2. Common Unconscious Parenting Patterns

• The Fighter, Fixer, and Freezer (07:49–09:41)
  • Fighter: Adopts a pattern of anger or lashing out, learned from observing parents react to stress.
  • Fixer: Especially common among highly competent women, the fixer rushes to repair and rescue, often to her own detriment (08:16).
    • Quote: “She managed her stress by saving people… she paid a price for that. And the price was her own well-being.” – Dr. Shefali (08:16)
  • Freezer: Responds to overwhelm by emotionally (or physically) checking out (09:39).
    • Quote: “They just kind of check out after a moment or two… many dads will do that.” – Dr. Shefali (09:41)
• Dylan Relates: Recognizes herself as both a fixer and a freezer depending on the situation (09:57).
  • “Sometimes I can’t give to the situation… I step away. But I never thought that was a bad thing.” – Dylan (09:57)
• Zero Blame Approach: Dr. Shefali urges parents to approach these discoveries with curiosity, not guilt (10:27).
  • Quote: “The task of a conscious parent… is not to feel guilty, not to blame… but to be a curious investigator of your psyche.” (10:27)

3. Breaking the Cycle

• Awareness Is Empowerment: Recognizing patterns is the first step toward change (12:34).
  • “We concomitantly have the power to break these patterns, to disrupt these patterns, and that is where our liberation lies.” – Dr. Shefali (11:04)
• Persistence and Inner Work: Comparison to muscle building – it takes consistency and effort (12:47).
  • “You have to keep going to the gym, you have to keep cleaning up your inner space.” – Dr. Shefali (13:15)
• It’s Never Too Late: Changing parenting patterns benefits both parents and adult children, even in later life (13:37).
  • Quote: “What I have found is that children are always ready to at least hear the other side... There is a part inside our children that is still a little girl, a little boy, yearning for its parents to show up.” (13:37)

4. Positive Patterns to Foster

• Normalizing Imperfection: Teaching children to handle failure, see parents’ flaws, and embrace life’s messiness (16:49).
  • “One of the best patterns… is the gift of failure.” – Dr. Shefali (16:49)
• Letting Go of Guilt: Dr. Shefali’s current mantra: “I am who I am, it is what it is, and you gotta just accept is what it is.” (17:30)
  • “We indulge [our children] with this fantasy that perfection is possible. And then we get upset when they can’t tolerate anything.” – Dr. Shefali (18:38)

5. Practical Examples and Scripts

• Adjusting Response to Mistakes: Example of arriving late to a pickup—normalizing and not over-apologizing (19:05).
  • “Now the chill mom that I’ve become, I go, ‘It is what it is. I’m late. There was traffic.’” (19:19)
• Balancing Empathy and Reality: With younger kids, acknowledge feelings while also presenting life’s sometimes-unfairess (21:00).

6. Spotting and Examining Ego in Parenting

• Ego’s Subtlety: Shows up as performance, over-involvement, and enforcing personal regrets/dreams on children (24:08).
  • Example: Steering a child toward music, just because the parent regrets not having learned an instrument, rather than following the child’s interests (25:36).
  • “The ego creates all these brilliant rationalizations that you’re doing something for the good of your children, when actually it’s all about you.” – Dr. Shefali (25:36)
• Encourage Autonomy: Allow children to sample opportunities but let them choose based on their own interests (26:05).

7. Mother-Daughter Dynamic: A Real Example

• Candid Story: Dr. Shefali describes unconsciously shaming her daughter by insinuating she was too old to need help (27:32).
  • Quote: “Her point was, just bloody say no… That’s your ego, Mom.” (29:11)
• Dylan’s Response: Finds it refreshing that even experts slip up and spiral at times (29:38).

8. Actionable Homework for Listeners

• Two Key Steps:
  1. Ask your children directly: “What’s something that mommy does that really upsets you or frustrates you?” (30:36)
  2. Self-checks: Tune into your emotional state, especially right before you react, to catch ego-driven behaviors (30:36).
     • “Just before the ego shows up… you feel anxious or upset or sad, and then the ego comes to swoop in.” – Dr. Shefali (30:36)

9. Parenting Confessions

• Dr. Shefali admits: Has a tendency to become defensive with her daughter, defaulting into a “defense attack thing” instead of simply accepting responsibility (33:09).
  • Quote: “Instead of just saying, oh, my God… I’ll go into this, ‘I’m taking care of so many things, if you had reminded me—.’” (33:09)
• Dylan relates deeply, expressing relief at the normalization of these challenges (33:46).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Isn’t that fascinating?... That’s how we were all conditioned.”
  – Dr. Shefali Tsabary (05:10)

• “The greatest disservice I did to myself was protect my child from my imperfections.”
  – Dr. Shefali Tsabary (19:19)

• “Patterns are everywhere... What’s really powerful about recognizing our patterns is that we have the power to break these patterns.”
  – Dr. Shefali Tsabary (10:27, 11:04)

• On guilt and perfection:
  “We indulge [our children] in the fantasy that perfection is possible, and then we get upset when they can't tolerate anything.”
  – Dr. Shefali (18:38)

• “If you know your pattern, then you'll know what your thing is. Like, I know my thing is don't make me the bad guy... It's so powerful to know your patterns.”
  – Dr. Shefali (29:53)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Unconscious Parenting & Conditioning: 03:45–06:00
• Fighter, Fixer, Freezer Patterns: 07:49–09:41
• Healthy Self-Inquiry, Disrupting Cycles: 10:27–13:16
• Is It Too Late to Change? 13:37–14:49
• Encouraging Positive Patterns: 16:49–17:30
• Letting Go of Guilt and Perfectionism: 17:30–19:19
• Handling Mistakes with Kids: 19:05–21:24
• Questions for Self-Reflection/Ego in Parenting: 22:52–26:05
• Real Mother-Daughter Dialogue: 27:26–29:38
• Practical Homework for Listeners: 30:36–31:20
• Parenting Confession (Dr. Shefali): 33:09–33:46

---

Takeaways & Tools for Listeners

• Get curious about your own reactions and recognize them as patterns, not permanent flaws or mistakes.
• Foster open dialogue with your kids—ask them how your actions or words make them feel.
• Practice self-awareness in the heat of the moment. Notice the emotional warning signs right before you snap, fix, or flee.
• Don't aim for perfection—model imperfection.
• Be gentle with yourself. Guilt is just another unhelpful pattern. Focus instead on moving forward with humility and intention.

---

Final Reflections

Dylan and Dr. Shefali’s honest conversation reassures listeners: all parents carry unconscious patterns, but these can be recognized and gently unraveled. Real change comes from humble self-reflection, open communication, and letting go of guilt and perfectionism—creating space for more authentic, resilient family relationships.

---

For more guidance:

• Check out Dr. Shefali’s books, especially The Conscious Parent and The Parenting Map.
• Connect with Dylan and the Today Parents community for support and continued conversation.

Transcript

[Dylan Dreyer]

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today.

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Breathe in. Feel the sense of calm that comes from having up to $300 in overdraft protection with GoToBank.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Now.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Did you say $300?

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Yes. Now back to our breathing.

[Dylan Dreyer]

So if I overspend my balance, Goto bank has my back up to $300.

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Yes. Can we breathe out now? Less worries, more zen. With over $300 in overdraft protection, Tap to open an account today. Eligible direct deposits and opt in required for overdraft protection fees. Terms and cond.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Just the other day she asked me, like, mom, can you help me clean the room? Because I didn't want to just say, no, I'm busy. I turned it around and kind of shamed her. And I said, don't you think you're old enough to clean your own room? Right? Oh, my God. And she was like, now, mom, do you see? Why do you have to insult me? It's an implied insult that I am acting too young for my age, you know, and I'm being dependent. And in my head I'm like, yes, you are.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Hi, everyone. I'm so glad you're joining us on this episode today. Before we dive in. So there's this hilarious trend on social media where you ask a child an older phrase to see if they answer it like they would in the old days or if they answer it in a new way. So I recorded me starting off some of these phrases to my kids. Like, you know, those kind that are like, I love you. But I would say, because my parents would say, I don't like you, or, I brought you into this world, I can take you out of it. I love that one. My aunt would just say, stop doing that right now or I'm gonna smash you. I mean, parents and, like, family members were so mean back then, but kids are just so innocent and just so lovable. Now. Their answers are just priceless.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Kids should be seen at the park in the woods.

[Dylan Dreyer]

I love you, but actually to work. I brought you into this world to do something. I brought you into this world so

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

you would feel nice.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Aw. I just love the innocence of my children. But I can think back to when my mom or dad or grandparents or someone would finish these sentences in the not so nice way. I mean, think about it. The way we were raised unconsciously impacts how we parent our kids. We have a great guest today. Dr. Shefali is a clinical psychologist, she's a podcast host and she's also the best selling author who wrote the book the Conscious Parent. So she believes that when we take a long hard look at our own baggage that we carry from our childhood, that maybe we can make space for new ways of doing things. I'm so excited to welcome today's guest, Dr. Shefali. Doctor Shefali, thank you so much for talking with us.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Of course. I'm so excited.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Let's start at the beginning here and talk to me about unconscious patterns in parenting. What does that even mean?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Yeah, so you know, when I started talking about conscious parenting, oh my goodness, 15, 20 years ago, no one was talking about it. And people were really scared to talk about the parents unconscious because parents have at least back then were put on this pedestal and you know, children were our possessions and they were supposed to just do as they were told. And so no one questioned the parents superiority. I mean really, that is the making of a tyrant.

[Dylan Dreyer]

I think back to the way my parents parented. I would never have thought of them as tyrannical by any means, but there was a level of respect that we were supposed to show my parents. You know, I mean, I was never hit with the wooden spoon, but the threat of the wooden spoon was always there. You know, like if, if I was misbehaving at dinner, if my mom got up to go get the wooden spoon, I, I knew it's time to back off. I needed to, you know, know my place at the table and you know, stop doing whatever it is I was doing. So I find like a little bit of that fear of parents could be good in a way because it gets kids to behave the way they should behaving. Right. So like talk me through that feeling I have.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Yeah, I mean that's. Isn't that fascinating that your mother, it's like Pavlov's dog, you know, which conditioned that if the bell was rung, the dog was going to get food. So it began to salivate even at just the sound of the bell. And the same, I mean, no offense, but that's how we were all conditioned that, you know, if my mother even gets up in the direction of the spoon, I know what that means. And I've associated that With a punishment or that look means something, something bad is coming down the pike.

[Dylan Dreyer]

But it put me in my place. So what is wrong with that?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

But the question to ask is, was that the only way you needed to learn to be put in your place? Did your brain need to get wired in that fear through that fear for you to learn that you needed to behave? Could there have been other ways that you could learn the same thing? And I think that's something we need to lean into. Couldn't there have been another way? And I think many of us get uncomfortable having to question our parents ways because that may lead us down a path of, you know, wow, maybe my parents didn't really care to look for another way, or maybe they didn't know another way. Maybe they were raised through trauma. And it kind of opens up this whole Pandora's box that I think many of us don't want to open up. So we hide behind this kind of cliche. Well, you know, what's wrong with that? Or, look at me, I'm fine, and I don't live in fear. But I think deep down there is an association of, you know, being good comes at a cost, and the cost is of our authenticity. And I think you and I were raised as very good girls, and we need to question that because it shows up in our life now and we may wonder, you know, why are we so scared to speak our truth? Well, these patterns got grooved really early on in our lives, I think, you

[Dylan Dreyer]

know, with the wooden spoon example, you know, I know now as a parent, I'm never going to use a wooden spoon on my kids, right. Like, there is no physical danger to the kids. But I'm wondering what other patterns that I picked up from my parents or grandparents, whoever was watching me, what are other examples of patterns that we could pick up that we don't even realize that we're using on our kids?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

So if you observed your parents kind of lose their right over, you know, you lost your backpack or you misplaced the keys, well, somewhere you will adopt that ego pattern yourself of the fighter. And you see that in so many people, especially men, who kind of just lose it and they have learned that stuff, or what I would rather say is that they did not learn another way to behave. Another very common pattern is that of the fixer. And many super competent empathic women, probably like you and me, are fixers. And what that means is that whenever there's a moment of stress or upheaval in our lives or our children's lives or our partner's lives. The fixer rushes in to rescue, to save. And they look really good and they look really loving. What the fixer eventually begins to realize in her later life is that she's exhausted. And she's exhausted because she managed her stress by saving people. She managed her stress by being the martyr. And she paid a price for that. And the price was her own well being.

[Dylan Dreyer]

And I'd imagine the person she's fixing is also not benefiting from the situation.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Well, they have an immediate gratification, but eventually they become codependent, which pisses the fixer off. And then what happens to the fixer, interestingly enough, is that the fixer becomes a fighter, right? And so many times you'll see a combo, a deadly combo. You see a combo of the fighter and the freezer.

[Dylan Dreyer]

What's the freezer?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

The freezer is someone who just kind of checks out after a moment or two, right? So they lose their. And then they kind of check out like they've done their thing and then they leave. And many dads will do that. Like they'll yell and then they just disappear. And you're like, where did you go?

[Dylan Dreyer]

It's funny you say that because, you know, I'm thinking of the, the clearly negative things that maybe I've seen my parents do when I was younger. But when you say the freezer, I mean, there are times when my kids are just fighting, fighting, fighting, and they come to me and they're like so and so hit me and did this and that and this. And I'm like, I'm out. I can't. You guys figure it out yourselves. There's nothing I can do. And then I step away and I. But I never thought that that was a bad thing. It was just sometimes I can't give to the situation.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

I don't think any of these are bad. All of these are adaptive. And we have learned to cope with stress in these ways. So the task of a conscious parent that I always talk about is not to feel guilty, not to, you know, blame or admonish yourself, but to be a curious investigator of your psyche and say, ah, interesting that when, when the stress level gets to a certain level, I check out, what is that about? And it's about really becoming aware, not entering a guilt trip. Because a guilt trip is another freaking pattern that now we're flogging ourselves and feeling like victims. No, that's just another self serving pattern. So patterns are everywhere. What's really powerful about recognizing our patterns is that we concomitantly have the power to break these patterns, to disrupt these patterns, and that is where our liberation lies. You know, I'm breaking the pattern of a fixer, you know, and I've learned to now say, you know, let me think about it, give me some time. I need time and space. And I feel terribly guilty when I, when I say that, because inevitably what I create in the person who I'm speaking with or I'm interacting with is that they get pissed off. I create anger in them. And that is the perfect way to create guilt in me, to then make me backtrack. Right, but, but really they have a right to be angry. You know why? Because I have set them up to expect that I'm going to fix everything.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Yeah, Right away.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Right. So that they are just working on cue. But I get so upset when they get angry. And then I backtrack, which is perfect, which keeps us in this endless locked pattern of cause and effect, of stimulus and response, and then no one breaks the pattern. So I have learned now, ah, they're gonna get angry. You're gonna feel guilty now.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Break that pattern so it can be done. You're saying these patterns can be recognized and you can throw like a little cog into the machinery here to kind of stop that cycle.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

You can absolutely break the pattern. That is what is called the inner work. And it just takes persistence. You know, sometimes we think in our naivety, you know, oh, you know, I meditated two weeks ago for five minutes. You know, it's like saying I, you know, picked up 10, 10 pound dumbbells for two minutes. It's like that, right? It's a muscle that you have to keep reinforcing. You have to keep going to the gym, you have to keep cleaning up

[Dylan Dreyer]

your inner space for the parent of older kids. And if they're listening to this and they've gone back and they're like, oh, shoot, I spent most of my life as the fighter or the fixer, whatever mask they were wearing. Is it too late? Is there a point where it's too late to, you know, change the way you approach parenting?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

What I teach in conscious parenting is that it is not about the child. It is about your growth and your evolution. So even if Your child is 35 and you've now realized that you need to stop enabling them for you. And guess what? What I have found through years of coaching is that children are always ready to at least hear the other side. They may not be ready to forgive and forget, but they're ready to heal with their parents. And Healing takes time. But children need it more than anything. You know, even if Your child is 40 years old and has, you know, said that they've emancipated themselves from you and they hate you, there is a part inside our children that is still a little girl, a little boy that is yearning for its parents to show up and say at the very least that I totally effed up and I'm at least realizing that it was me and it wasn't. It's not you. That is such a beautiful gift we can give our children that we can give anyone in our lives.

[Dylan Dreyer]

We'll be right back after the break.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

An undisturbed sleep is a beautiful thing. That's why a beautyrest mattress is designed to give you unparalleled motion separation, isolating movement with our pocketed coil technology to help you sleep soundly no matter what's moving on the other side of the bed, while providing individualized support for every sleeping position. People at their best get their beauty rest save during our Memorial Day sale at a retailer near you.

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Breathe in. Feel the sense of calm that comes from having up to $300 in overdraft protection with Goto bank. Now.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Did you say $300?

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Yes. Now back to our breathing.

[Dylan Dreyer]

So if I overspend my balance, Goto bank has my back up to $300.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Yes.

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Can we breathe out now? Less worries, more zen. With over $300 in overdraft protection, tap to open an account today. Eligible direct deposits and opt in required for overdraft protection fees. Terms and conditions apply.

[Dylan Dreyer]

At dsw, we ask the important questions like what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate, ultimate vacay. The right shoes can make or break an rsvp. So own the moment. You've got big plans, and we've got just the shoes at the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with designer shoe Warehouse. Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today and let us surprise you. If we focus on some of the positive patterns that exist out there. I mean, I think of some things I do as a parent that I'm proud of myself for. What are good patterns to incorporate into parenting?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

I think one of the best patterns I've seen parents pass down is the gift of failure. You know, when our children can observe the imperfections in us as parents and see how we embrace our flaws and our limitations with humor, with candor, with an ease. The other positive patterns are, you know, having no guilt you know, having no regret.

[Dylan Dreyer]

How do you do that? Between mom guilt and feeling guilty for the way I handled a situation or, you know, just, I don't know. Guilt is like the thing I feel every day. How do you get through that?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Well, you have young children, so my daughter's older. My latest mantra with her is, I am who I am, it is what it is, and you gotta just accept is what it is. I mean, that's just my daily mantra now. And I think there's a beauty in teaching our children that mom's not perfect. Life's a show, get with the program. I mean, where is Utopia? You know, if you find Utopia, I'll buy the ticket. But till then, it is what it is. And I think it's okay for children to learn that. I think we in this generation have kind of overcorrected the negligence of our parents and the abuse that we tolerated. And we are now tippy toeing too much around our children and we're indulging them with this fantasy that perfection is possible. And then we get upset with our children, you know, especially Gen Z and the Millennials when they can't tolerate anything and they're canceling everybody. Well, they learned that from us. So instead of teaching them to cancel things and to be so highly intolerant of even the slightest slight, we need to teach them that, you know, no one is perfect.

[Dylan Dreyer]

So how does a conversation like that actually go? You know, especially if you're dealing with a teenager who could be rolling their eyes, they don't want to have the conversation, but you want to toughen them up a little bit to be able to handle adversity.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Well, it really happens in the most practical of moments. Say you're late for pickup, you know, do you have to say sorry 1,000 times? That's that how? That's how I used to be. Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. You know, let's go for ice cream.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Let me make it up.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

I'm such a bad mother. Oh my goodness. Now the mom, the chill mom that I've become, I go, you know, it is what it is. I'm late. There was traffic. I don't panic anymore. I don't rush to make excuses. I tell her to wait and to just zip it and to deal with it and I don't care. I really don't care anymore. And that sounds so, you know, like bad parenting, but it isn't. Because as long as we as parents are trying our best, we need to let go of being perfect. We just have to let it go. The greatest disservice I did to myself was protect my child from my imperfections. And I protected her so much that she now can't even handle when I'm crying or I'm a mess. Like, she's like, mom, like, who are you? You know, or when I'm walking around in my pajamas for days, she's like, where's my mother? And I'm like, this woman's in town now. You know, I was just hiding her. And I think it's a relief for her to see that I'm human because it allows her to be human.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Man, this is just so eye opening. Because, I mean, I can remember there was one time my flight was delayed getting back. I promised my oldest that I'd be there to pick him up from school, but the flight was delayed. I didn't get back till after dinner. He's upset when I walk in the door, and it's just like I'm apologizing left and right. And then even after it settled, as I tucked him into bed that night, I'm like, I am so sorry I wasn't here to pick you up from school today. And it's like to look at it from different perspective, and it's like, you know, my flight was delayed. It is what it is. What? What? What can I do?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Oh, but you could. You, because you have younger kids, you can be a little bit more empathic than me. And you could say, it is what it is. You could say, you know, I know, I know you're disappointed Mommy didn't come on time, but, you know, mommy works and flights get delayed, and this is life. And I'm so sorry you feel bad, but we got to understand this is going to happen again, right?

[Dylan Dreyer]

What other examples like that or that you've heard from others that, you know, folks watching right now could relate to and kind of handle that situation differently?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Well, there's so many, right. If you and your partner argue, God forbid you argue in front of your children and you're worried your children are traumatized, right? They're not. They're not going to be traumatized watching you argue. Yes, they may be traumatized watching you both scream at each other, but again, we have so much guilt on over just normal human things, you know, being late or a divorce or a fight or an argument or, you know, you ordering food in for the 10th time and not cooking. Right. We have put so much pressure on ourselves to live in a glass castle that is simply unrealistic. And actually, what we're doing in protecting our children is creating great fragility. And then we complain that our children are too fragile right now. I'm not saying we should go the other way where our parents would these benignly neglectful, bordering on downright abusive. We don't have to go there. But we also don't have to be. So treat our children as if they're these little buttercups and butterflies. We need to kind of toe the gritty fine line of imperfection with a heightened attunement and empathy and awareness.

[Dylan Dreyer]

What about for folks who maybe think that, you know, they don't really have any bad patterns that they've picked up from their parents? Or what questions should we ask ourselves to find out if there are some negative patterns that we're projecting onto our kids?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

It's not if we have negative patterns that we're projecting onto our children. It's how do they show up and how many times did they show up today? And it's not about being doom and gloom. It's about being awake. If you're awake in today's world and you are deeply connected to yourself, you will see your ego pop up every hour, right? And it's not about that being a bad thing. It's about the degree to which your ego is in the driver's seat. The issue is not about having an ego. The issue is about how blind are we to our ego and how incensed and loyal is our ego to itself.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Is there an exercise we can do on a typical day where we can kind of highlight when that ego surfaces and how we're projecting onto our kids because of it?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

The ego is really so brilliantly subtle that it can show up in these very tiny ways, such as, you know, your child begins to hum to a Taylor Swift song, and you begin to notice that your child has a really, you know, a lovely voice. And you then just subtly start steering your child to, hmm. You know, you sing so well. You know, I. The other day a music teacher came to work and was telling me about her music lessons. And then you start kind of steering your child slowly to become a professional next Taylor Swift, you know, and then the ego will say, but what's wrong with that? You know, I'm only encouraging my child. But what the ego fails to allow you to see is that your child didn't ask for it and how cleverly your ego snuck in there and kind of made it your agenda without your child's consent, right? Or you're posting stuff about your child online and you don't think to ask your child, but your ego makes you believe that you're doing it for the sake of your family. Right? So the ego creates all these brilliant rationalizations that you're doing something for the good of your children, when actually it's full on 100% all about you.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Okay, what about this one? Because I have pushed music on my kids, because my biggest regret growing up was that my mom never pushed music on me. And I wish to this day I could play the piano or I could play the guitar. So I want them to try it. They don't love it. He doesn't practice. It's not like he's drawn to it. But isn't that a skill that they should have? I don't want them to feel the way I do in the future. That. Man, I wish somebody pushed me a little bit.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Yeah, so that's a great question, because we all want to expose our children, especially to things that we wish our parents had exposed us to. Step one is recognizing that we are doing something for our children. Coming from our baggage, coming from our childhood, we cannot allow for our baggage to superimpose our children's own inner knowing. So while we are being very ambitious parents, and no harm in being ambitious for our children, we need to also allow our children to develop an inner ear so they can listen to their own inner voice and have access to their own inner knowing and authority. Otherwise, they will not be able to manifest for themselves. So it's a beautiful dance where the parent steps in and offers. Right. Puts it on the buffet table, but then allows the child to kind of dictate their own hunger. If you override their hunger with your hunger, then you will create a performance, a people pleaser, a compliant child who is detached and disconnected from their own inner capacity to manifest for themselves. Hmm.

[Dylan Dreyer]

I loved hearing your conversation with your daughter. What did you learn about yourself by asking her questions?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Can we just talk, heart to heart, mother to daughter, in a way that's stripped of all ego? I'm just shocked that you still want to be with me the way you do.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Ew.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Don't comment. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Nothing that I haven't learned from her almost every day. But I'm always amazed at how unconscious I am. Right? And I have no compunction saying that. I love saying that because that keeps me humble. Each time I think I'm getting it, she'll remind me. And sometimes I do get it right, but the times I don't, she'll remind me, mom, you're making this about you. You're centering yourself. Just the other day, she asked me like, mom, can you help me clean the room right now? Because I didn't want to just say, no, I'm busy. I turned it around and kind of shamed her. And I said, don't you think you're old enough to clean your own room? Right. Oh, my God. And I said it so easily, you know?

[Dylan Dreyer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

And she was like, now, mom, do you see? Why do you have to insult me? I was like, is that an insult? I was like, that's not an insult. I was like, you're old enough to clean your own room. She's like, it's an implied insult that I'm acting too young for my age and I'm being dependent. And in my head, I'm like, yes, you are. Anyway,

[Dylan Dreyer]

so how does the rest of that play out? I mean, what do you do in that situation?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Her point was just bloody say no. And I was like, oh, okay. But I was like, see? Then I'm the bad guy. Why am I the bad guy instead? You should not ask me at that age. You see, you're making me feel bad. Bad. And she's like, see, that's your. That's you, Mom. That's your ego that you think I'm here trying to make you a bad guy. I was totally tripping, you know, I was like, why? Why? Because I don't want to be the bad guy. I was like, don't make me say no.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Of course, it's so refreshing to hear that you spiral as well when you know all the. All the different things. And you know, you're. You're very conscious about how you parent, so it. It is. It's comforting to know that these situations even pop up for you, too.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

If you know your pattern, then you'll know what your thing is. Like, I know my thing is, like, don't make me say no. Like, I hate. Don't make me the bad guy. Right. Figure out your own don't make me the bad guy. So when that shows up in me, I'll become mean to somebody else. Like. And I've begun to notice that. So that's why it's so powerful to. To know your patterns. And I outline all of this in my book, the Parenting Map.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Well, that's what I want to ask. I know you have your books and your podcast, but if there was one little bit of homework you could give to each of us, what's one thing we could try today to help us recognize These patterns and how to behave in the best way.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Well, I'll give you two. Number one is ask your children. You know, what's something that mommy does that really upsets you or annoys you or frustrates you? And you'll be surprised at how many things they'll tell you. And the second thing is start checking in with yourself and tune into how you feel. Because just before the ego shows up, if you can become really aware, there's a moment that you feel anxious or upset or sad, and then the ego comes to swoop in. So the more you can become aware of. Of your of your feelings moment by moment, the more conscious you will be in your life.

[Dylan Dreyer]

More of the parent chat after the break.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

A beautyrest mattress gives you unparalleled motion separation, isolating movement with pocketed coil technology while providing individual eye support. Save during our Memorial Day sale at a retailer near you.

[Dylan Dreyer]

You know that thing where you get an amazing pair of shoes at a really great price and want to tell everyone about it? Yeah. So do we here at Designer Shoe Warehouse. We'll give you something to brag about, like the latest styles from brands you love or the trends everyone's obsessing over or shoes that make you feel like, well, you. So go ahead, show off a little. Buying shoes that get you and prices that get your budget. Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today. DSW. Let us surprise you.

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Breathe in. Feel the sense of calm that comes from having up to $300 in overdraft protection with Goto Bank. Now.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Did you say $300?

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Yes. Now back to our breathing.

[Dylan Dreyer]

So if I overspend my balance, go2bank has my back up to $300.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Yes.

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Can we breathe out now? Less worries, more zen. With over $300 in overdraft protection, tap to open an account today. Eligible direct deposits and opt in required for overdraft protection fees. Terms and conditions apply.

[Dylan Dreyer]

We do one segment here where we talk about parenting confessions. You know, either a win we've had or a time where we were challenged and maybe didn't handle a situation the right way. If you could give us another example of just a parenting confession of yours, what would it be?

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

Well, I think, like I said, I'm very defensive, you know, so if my daughter says, mom, you know, why did you forget to pay my school fees instead of just saying, oh, my God, it's because I'm just, you know, fool or I forgot or I'm so forgetful, I'll start, well, you know how hard I work and, you know, I'll go into this. I'm, you know, taking care of so many things, and if you had reminded me right, I'll go, I'll launch into, like, a defense attack thing. And I, I so don't like that about myself. But it's one of my hardest patterns to break.

[Dylan Dreyer]

I feel so seen it was. I really do. I mean, it's just. It's. Dr. Shefali, so wonderful to talk with you. Thank you so much for your advice. And, yeah, I think I'm just going to go into the rest of this day keeping so many of the things you said in my mind, you know, front and center and really trying to figure this out a little bit more so than you.

[Dr. Shefali Tsabary]

But thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Wow. I have so much to think about after that conversation with Dr. Shefali. I mean, I do find myself as the fixer. I'm the one who does it all. Like, why. Why make the kids do something that I could just do for them that does set them up for not being able to handle those situations themselves? But I am definitely a freezer. I mean, there are times where I am maxed out. I can't solve one more thing to do day. I can't do one more task that I just. I. I'm out. Sometimes you just have to step back, you know, look at. I don't want to say look at your own failures because they're not failures. They're just patterns like Dr. Shefali said, you know, some are right, some are not necessarily wrong, but things maybe we could do a little bit differently. So if you have comments, if you have anything you want to say, just write them below. You can DM us at Today Parents. You can follow me Dylan Dreyer, NBC. And thanks so much for watching and we'll see you next time. Bye bye. This episode was produced by Ann Legamayo. Rachel. Paula Abramson is our parenting reporter. Our senior producer is Tyree Nobles. It was edited by Ali Strain. Our audio engineer and mixer is Justin Slo. Our head of audio production is Jessica Fenton. Ashley Domagola is our production manager. Sadie Bass is our supervising producer. Arianna Davis is the executive editor of the Today show, and Ashley Kodiani is the vice president of content strategy. I'm Dylan Dreier and this has been the Parent Chat, a production of the Today show. See you next week.

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Breathe in. Feel the sense of calm that comes from having up to $300 in overdraft protection with Goto Bank.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Now, did you say $300?

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Yes. Now back to our breathing.

[Dylan Dreyer]

So if I overspend my balance, Goto bank has my back up to $300?

[Goto Bank Advertiser]

Yes. Can we breathe out now? Less worries, more zen. With over $300 in overdraft protection tap to open an account today. Eligible direct deposits and opt in required for overdraft protection fees. Terms and conditions apply.