← The Quantum Biology Collective Podcast
The Quantum Biology Collective Podcast
EP 075: Beyond Biomechanics: The True Nature Of The Human Form
01:22:02
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the Quantum Biology Collective podcast, where we break down the practical strategies of this emerging science, starting with healthy light habits and going wherever the quantum superhighway takes us. This is your host, executive and life coach, Meredith Oak, with a quick reminder that podcasts are conversations, not consultations, and definitely not medical advice. We're here for informational purposes only to follow up with our amazing guests. Please do check out the show notes and to stay in the loop with the QBC Podcast podcast. Join our email list also linked in the show notes. So we spend a lot of time on this podcast talking about how it's time to shift from a purely biochemical view of human health to a more quantum biologic view of human health. So our guest today is going to tell us why it's also time to shift away from a biomechanical view of our bodies into a more holistic quantum view of our bodies. And to help us with that is Joanne Avison. She is an expert in fascia and anatomy and she is going to explain to us why we are not a collection of parts that were assembled in a factory like a machine. We are in fact, liquid crystal light beings connected to a participatory universe. It's amazing stuff and I'm really looking forward to it. Before we jump in, I do want to switch topics to something that we also talk a lot about on this podcast, which is blue blocking glasses. So I've heard from a lot of people who are new to this information. They're like, Meredith, you keep just like saying blue blockers. Like, a, we know what those are and B, we know what to do with them. Could you say a little bit more? So I know a lot of you are experts on this, but it's really important that everybody understands, especially if you're new, what blue blockers are. So I'm excited. We have a new partnership with a lovely company called Boncharge. They are out of Australia, run by a husband and wife and their glasses are made in labs in Australia. So they make very nice, high quality blue blocking glasses in a lot of different cute styles. So if you don't have a pair, I do recommend having some in the house. This is sort of like the number one thing that you want to buy. If you're going to buy one thing to protect your circadian rhythms, I would say blue blocking glasses. And if you go to the link in our show notes, put QBC into the checkout at the Bon Charge website, you will get 15% off. But here's what's important Blue blocking glasses are orange tinted or sometimes red tinted, but usually they have the dark orange lenses. And here's how to use them. You wear them at night at least two to three hours before bed. But really, anytime that it's dark out and you are in front of artificial light. So television, laptop, phone, LED light bulbs, going to a movie. If there's bright light coming at you and it's dark outside, you want to be wearing orange tinted blue blockers. However, you do not want to wear them during the day if the sun is out. Don't wear orange lensed glasses all the time. So there are ways to protect your eyes from bright artificial light during the daytime. We'll get into that on another episode. I just want to focus on the orange lenses for now because I think that's really crucial. Right. You can't have high quality sleep if your eyes are getting bombarded with high intensity bright light right before bed. It just. Your melatonin won't come out and do what it's supposed to do while you're sleeping. So please do think about that. And that is how and why to wear orange blue lockers. And if you want them to be cute and beautiful and high quality, go to Bon Charge. All right, back to Joanne and our conversation about how we're liquid light crystal beings in a participatory universe. So Joanne is a former yoga instructor and an expert in fascia. She's written several books, including a new illustrated series called Myofascial Magic in Action. She also has a doctorate in spiritual science, and she is here today to walk us through our quantum light beings, how we are quantum light beings. I really enjoyed this conversation with Joanne and it really changed how I see my body, and I know it will do the same for you. Have fun. Joanne Avison, welcome to the Quantum Biology Collective podcast. I'm so excited for this conversation.
- [04:46]
B
I am so delighted to meet you at last, Meredith. You've come so highly recommended and I've been kind of following you for years, actually. So I'm just thrilled this has happened. Somehow Spirit knows the timing, you know?
- [04:59]
A
I think so. Oh, thank you. Yes. And thanks to. Thanks to Peter Bort for connecting us as. Yes. As soon as I started listening to your work and reading your work, I was like, oh, my goodness, this woman is brilliant. And I love. I just, I love the way I know. I feel the same way. I'm like, I don't know anything. I just talk to brilliant people. And you said something really beautiful in the intro to one of your podcasts. You were like, when you're listening, I think it was, you were interviewing anyway, somebody who is quite complex at times. And you said even if you don't fully, you couldn't repeat back what you just heard. You feel better for having heard it. Anyway, you said that that was your piece of wisdom. And I thought, how, how perfect. Because I say that sometimes at the start of the podcast I'm like, listen, this gets a little technical, but just let it wash over you, it's all okay. And focus on, on the thing, on the pieces that land. So I wanted to bring that up because you, you phrased it so beautifully. Okay, so we often on here we talk about the quantum biologic paradigm and how most, you know, most of health and wellness, even, even the naturopathic world, to a large extent is focused on us as biochemical beings. And we now know that we are in fact quantum biologic beings. And listening to your podcast and reading your work, you had a very similar line of thought. But instead of biochemistry, you talk a lot about biomechanics, which is, and yeah, and you're like, listen, we're not actually biomechanical. So Joanne, what are we?
- [06:48]
B
Well, I say, and I made up the word so you can't look it up in the dictionary because it isn't there. I say we're bio emotional. And the reason I say that, Meredith, is because yes, there are chemical reactions, yes, there are supposedly mechanical forces moving through us, but we cannot reduce human function to either. And so what we're saying is. No, no, no, that's not a mistake. It's the most powerful metaphor that our forefathers had 400 years ago. Because when we began the study of the human body historically, and you've picked this up in some of my podcasts, but just to give your readers a context, let's just put this in place. It's beautifully written about by Candace Pert in her wonderful piece, her work Molecules of Emotion, which I've no doubt you're familiar with. And in the introduction she talks about the fact that Rene Descartes, the so called father of modern science, went to the Pope to get permission to dissect human bodies, to understand human movement and human function and human structure as distinct from the Barbary apes that were used at that time to study what then the word medicine meant. Now medicine's much, much older than that. Goes right back to Hippocrates and beyond or before. And the Hippocrates, you know, we take the Hippocratic oath. I mean, I don't I'm not a doctor of medicine. I'm a doctor of spiritual science. But the doctor of medicine takes the Hippocratic oath. And since Hippocrates, it was forbidden to dissect human bodies as a violation of the sacredness of the human. However, Descartes went to the Pope and asked permission for that sanction because he argued very brilliantly that you can't understand human movement without humans or structure or function. Now, that permission was granted with very specific conditions. And this is what's so key for us, Meredith, because it explains both the biochemical, the biomechanical, and other words that the word bio has been stuck in front of to make it biological without joining the dots. The Pope agreed that Descartes, or science as it was going to become, could use human bodies on the condition that they only had the physical rights, if you like. It was a turf deal, in Candace Pert's words. And the Pope kept jurisdiction for the Roman Catholic Church over anything metaphysical. So the mind, the emotions, the beingness, what we would call the soul or the spirit. Excuse me, for its safety, for its honor, for its correct. What, you want sanction? The being was considered the jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Church. The body became the jurisdiction of science. And this is really super important because it carved a rift.
- [10:04]
A
That's the schism.
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B
There's the schism. So we. Now it's not. And we have a chasm between the world of the being and the world of the body. And science was like, oh, no, we're going to rule out all those variables and we're going to reduce. Hence, Cartesian reductionism came from Rene Descartes. Cartesian, Cartesian reductionism. We reduced the body down to the biomechanical sum of its anatomical parts, its chemical reactions or stuff, the chemistry of its stuff, and everything was reduced so that it could be understood. Now, before we say, oh, my God, what were they thinking? Well, they lived in an industrial revolution where the idea that you and I have of a washing machine, a car, let alone a computer or an iPhone or any smartphone or tablet that can communicate over millions of miles, in seconds, nanoseconds, in video. I mean, how many miles apart are you and I now? And we're hearing and watching each other in real time. Now, 400 years ago, they didn't even have a concept of that. They thought it was absolutely incredible to come up with the most basic forms of communication that were automated. So we're talking to give you an idea. 1644 was the first printing press, the Gutenberg printing press and it printed the Gutenberg Bible. And that meant something could be reproduced other than by hand. So you're sitting there thinking, jo, really, why do we need a history lesson? Well, it's essential because otherwise we don't understand how we got here. We can't forgive our forefathers for being wrong, which we have to, because they weren't. They were brilliant in their day. But we also can't learn what the schism is and build the appropriate rope bridge across the chasm and cross the Rubicon. Because it wasn't that they were wrong, it was that they split this into two areas, the body and the being. And all we're doing is saying, no, this doesn't make sense.
- [12:15]
A
There's more.
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B
It's all one piece and it's all one co creative reaction and it's all one quantum biological field. And we're now talking in fields, we say words like resonance, that they would have thought we were barking mad. Not before then, but after then, because the right way to behave. And it was tricky, understand, Descartes didn't have any license, he went for permission. Right then, rather than politics, you had the church, now we've got politics and science that we call science, but it's kind of become the new church. Yeah. And somewhere in all of this, the ancient wisdom of the yogis, of Hippocrates, of the quantum fields, of Rumi's poetry, of, you know, the teachings in the Bible, if you really read and understand them, they. They're steeped in this wisdom that we all still have. And it's like, okay, how can we find the language? And this is. This is where I've kind of come in. A bit blind and goofy, but passionate. How can we find a language to bridge this world? Where we learned through Descartes and the people that preceded him, to analyze the body as a functioning mechanical form based on the most amazing things they could invent at the time, the car. I mean, this is long. This is before. I mean, electricity wasn't in this country till Victorian times. So we're going back hundreds of years before that. So they developed what they could only just do, which was mechanics.
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A
Right. And they weren't even allowed, they didn't have permission to take it a step further. So even though they very likely observed or intuited the bigger picture, they were forbidden. And that that law has now become entrenched dogma.
- [14:19]
B
Beautifully said. And remember the same time as Descartes was, oh, my God, my father does this to me. He's passed over but every now and again he pulls a word out of my head. Galileo, Galileo was held up, upheld Copernicus theory. Now this is another important part of the church. The word hu in human comes from an ancient name for the divine. So human actually means divine man. Everybody, not, not just male. Yes, male and female. So the womb was attached to the man to distinguish the female. Womb, man, woman. Because one part of the species has a womb and the other part doesn't. So it was united by the word man. Humankind mean kinder, meaning type or kind and kindness. And children, kindergarten, all children of God, children of spirit. So this purity and this wholeness is in that language, but it's, it's lost in translation. So they believed at that time that human was the center of the universe, therefore the Earth was the center of the galaxy. Now Copernicus had a theory that we were not Earth centered, that is geocentric, but we were actually sun centered. Now, in order, this is a beautiful example. And Gerald Polak quotes this in his book about, not about water, about cells, and he talks about in the introduction that Copernicus theory that we were the center of the universe threw a loop, it threw a spanner in the works. Because when you think the Earth is at the center of our galaxy and we all know that's wrong now, but that wasn't then, my goodness me, they, they were just inventing telescopes and microscopes at the same time. So they were just seeing these perspectives of a much bigger universe. I mean it was as big to them as the, the Webb telescope is to us now and the NASA pictures are to us now. Can you see that? We're just growing, we're progressing. So we have to kind of love and forgive ourselves for what is. They're not mistakes, but they, they're things we don't need to stick to because we can allow the evolution of these ideas, but when we understand them, it's so much easier to, to ground ourselves, I think. So to explain this, they thought the Earth was the center of our galaxy. And in order to explain the relative cycles and cyclical journeys of the planets in our galaxy, they got into such a pickle, it was unbelievable. And all these academic so called masters at the time developed these incredibly complex explanations for how the sun moved. Always trying to explain movement relative to the Earth, relative to the, how the Earth, you know, the sun, all the planets moved, all the stars, everything relative to the Earth. They couldn't explain it easily, so they explained it through this complex system of what was called epicycles epi means upon. So these cycles, with cycles upon cycles and cycles upon cycles to explain the complexities of the movements of the stars and the planets relative to a geocentric and earth centered galaxy. Galileo wrote a paper suggesting that Copernicus was right that we're not an earth centered galaxy, as we now know. We're a sun centered galaxy, heliocentric. Oh, my God. Heresy. It was heresy. But it happened that he had a relationship with the Pope. I can't remember if he went to school with the Pope or he knew the current Pope or whatever it was. So he was placed under house arrest for his heretic statements. He wasn't murdered or, you know, harmed. Not murdered. He was, you know, punished. So his punishment was house arrest. And this was around the same time. So Descartes was seriously concerned how his ideas would be received. It was a dangerous time. It was heresy to say that the sun was at the center. Now what happened is that if the sun was at the center of our galaxy, you didn't need those epicycles, Meredith. They became scholastically, academically, intellectually redundant in that moment. Because everything made perfect sense when you discovered it was the center of the same cycle system. And you're like, oh, my goodness. Now you and I gaze at the stars. We're enamored with the quantum fields, you know, we're like, wow, surely once you discover this, it's the most exciting thing in the world. World. No, because you upturn decades and centuries of academic scholastic standards, you're threatening the way it's supposed to be. And it wasn't taken very well. So he was put under house arrest. Didn't stop him at all. He carried on publishing, thank God, and we now know that we are a heliocentric galaxy. And here's the thing you'll love through embryology, through people who were equally damned and violated and misunderstood, like Eric Blechmidt in his beautiful work on embryology. We are a heart centered embryo. We start heart first, and you won't find any embryology books that write about that. We start with the heart beating above the crown to grow the brain, and it serves the brain to grow around it, place it, and then it designs the spine from the front of the body where it's going to go. It designs everything that enfolds it, and then we unfold the face from it. So the heart starts at that eighth chakra, comes down to the fourth, waits to be wrapped, designs the spine, the brain grows the spine down the back, wraps the heart and these buds grow and they're lung buds and limb buds and they all grow to wrap around the heart. We are basically heart centered. And that's about as popular as Copernicus idea that we're heliocentric. It's so magical.
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A
Beautiful. It's so magical. And it's. Yeah, it. We are. We can now easily accept that we live in a heliocentric universe. And now we're. It's time to accept that we live in a heart centered. This. The heart is the sun of our bodies, of our beings.
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B
We're not brains walking around on sticks. With levels of intellectual achievement. That's lovely. That's wonderful. And. And please understand I've worked as hard as anybody to achieve in that field.
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A
Yeah.
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And it's absolutely needed. And we just can't go around wiping out the history. But what we can do is include and transcend it. And we are not just intellectual. That's where the data lives and we need that data. That's where we get our metrics. That's where we measure. I mean, I've been ill. I've been in hospital. I've had major surgery in the last couple of years. They've saved my life. Thank you. I am so grateful. And they did it using metrics. But the magic of the actual surgery that was performed on me was by a man that I met, that I talked to, that I shared with, that I asked questions of who, you know, wanted to know where my questions came from. You know, I've done a lot of human dissection with John Sharkey. It's a privilege. It's a privilege. Thank you. To every donor that allows us to learn. And that's how we've learned that we're not making up this stuff about the matrix that the fascia forms because everything. The heart is in a little bag made of fascia. The. The heart itself is a form of myofascia, but it's very specialized. And what we're learning now is that the entire body is actually variations on the theme of a specialized connective tissue because our baseline is completely connected. And if you talk to John Sharkey at length, he talks about the fascia as the. The black matter of the. Of the form, the inner cosmos. So black matter to the outer cosmos is fascia to the inner cosmos. It's our communication networks. It's our. It's variations on the theme of what I call architecture. And it responds to us and it's formed under tension. This is really important. And we'll talk about this in a minute. It's formed under tension in all of us. And what that means is we are a walking instrument, a walking heart centered instrument. Field of music. And the extent of our harmony is reflected in our movements. That doesn't mean you have to go to the gym ten times a week. It means if you recognize the subtlety of your body's predisposition to create a field, a relational field, that you honor that with all its subtlety, then you are in touch with that magic, because it's a communication system. It's a communicating interface. It's already how we dream. It could be. It already is. Does that make sense?
- [24:04]
A
It already is. Yes. Oh, and there's. There's so much. Okay, so we're talking about our heart as the sun and the fascia as the black matter and our. What did you say? The predisposition to relate to the field or. What did you do? You said something better.
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B
I don't know how I said it, because I actually think spirit comes through, and I know. Oh, my God. What did I say?
- [24:31]
A
I said that.
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B
Oh, yeah. It's like. So if you think of all the organs and you think of all the muscles and you think of all the bones. Yeah. When you went to school and you did biology, we learned them all separately. We're made of parts. Yeah. Like a car. So think of a car. The way you assemble a car is that you. You get a car, you get all the car parts, and you put them all together and you bolt them in exactly the right way, and you fit everything in all the right places, and then the car goes. Yeah. Yeah. That's the model that we have. The human body. If we know the names of all the parts, the origins and the insertions of every muscle. And anyone out there listening to this podcast who's a body worker is going to groan in agreement with me. Because the hellish part of all of our training is remembering the origins and insertions of every single muscle, the nerve that's attached to it, that causes the action. And the idea that we're brought up with is that if that nerve is damaged or that muscle is damaged or that bone is damaged, then we can't move that movement that that muscle does.
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A
Mm.
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Well, that's just wrong, because there are no insertions or origins. And I know this is heresy. I know this could put me under House.
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A
We are all. We are here for the heritage, for the heretical. Seriously.
- [25:46]
B
It's my son. He bought me a birthday, but a Christmas present. It's the Maverick Soul. This book is called the Maverick Soul, and I love. Because here's the thing. When you dissect a body that's fresh, frozen, or in teal. Not. It's not in rigor mortis, it's soft, like an anesthetized living body, you look. You go looking for an insertion or an origin of, say, biceps or in the arm or the biceps femoris in the leg or whatever, and you. It just doesn't stop. You just go, well, that's attached to that, and that's attached to that, and that's attached to. Oh, hang on a minute. And you're everywhere. So then you think, well, hang on a second. And you stand back and you realize that you're dealing with one muscle, myofascia. There is no such thing as muscle. It's myofascia. And it's pinned down in hundreds and hundreds of places. But they're all connected to each other. They're neighbors. There's nothing separate. And then you think, well, hang on a second. And then my logic. And I have the huge good fortune to have worked with Jaap van der Waal and Michael Shea and some of the most fabulous embryology professors in the world. Professor Daryl Evans. My God. I mean, it's not even a privilege. I don't know how one was my client. One fell in love with me because I used to be a chocolatier, and he's a chocoholic, nicknamed me Juliet Binoche. On his knees at a conference, and I'm like, get up. What? I'm coming to you. And they've, like, fed me with this information and confirmed. Every single one of them is confirmed.
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A
Right?
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B
We. Here's how I say it, okay? This is. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, but just think about this for yourself. Each person listening to this, listen into yourself. When you were an embryo, so you conceived, the egg is fertilized, and it forms what Jaap van der Waal calls a unicellular being. Hold that thought for a minute, because this is really reverent. This is really. This is grace. We're already grace incarnate. That beautiful, unicellular version of you has everything it needs to become you. It doesn't go to school to learn how to be an embryo. There's not an acorn out there that can spell oak tree, yet everything needed to form the oak tree is in the icon, right? Everything you need in that unicellular, let's say, body being the being that's animating that body, that unicellular moment, because it's a moment in time and space self organizes into. In a period of 8 weeks, 56 days into you the size of a walnut inside a walnut shell, all soft that you could hold in the palm of your hand about an inch and a half long. And you've got everything totally immature, much too immature to survive. But you are completely formed in that moment when all you do from then on is grow and develop. So in a way we're still embryos growing and developing. We've just got a few years between us and being safely in a gravity free water bag, you know. Yes, but nobody bolted on your limbs, nobody inserted your eyes or, you know, screwed in a tongue or put fingers on the ends of your hands.
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A
Right. When you put it that way, it seems so.
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B
Hello.
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A
Ridiculous to think about it like that.
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B
Duh. So. And it doesn't know itself as muscles. And if we did a dissection of you and me next to each other, you would find that we've got very different muscle configurations. Generally the same because we're human species and generally we have two eyes on the front of our face and two ears on the side. Not everybody, but you suddenly realize what a miracle it is that we fold and enfold in 361 degrees. There's an extra degree, the one. I'm making that up. But you'll see why at some point we fold and enfold and it's called imagination. It's 361 degrees of bio organic origami.
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A
Wow.
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But it's animated by your spirit. It's archetypally you. And I remember when I was. I was pregnant with my son and I had this delusional idea. I mean, God knows how I got away with knowing so little about anything. It's horrendous. But it worked. I think ignorance really can be bliss. And I was completely blissed out. I thought children got their personality Roundabout 3. Hello. I was guided to talk to my son with taps when he was on the inside. So I do three presses on the right, two taps on the left and I'd get back three slow presses on the right and two little taps on the left. We were in complete syncopated, rhythmic communication months before he emerged. Months. Soon as I could feel him from the outside, we were in communication. I'd been guided to do that in some countries. Apparently they teach children maths in utero. Math, mathematics.
- [31:28]
A
Really. Oh my gosh. Okay. We won't.
- [31:31]
B
But we could the communication. When I found that I could do three taps on one side and get three Taps back and then two on the other and get two back. I will never forget that the hair on my skin stood up. I squealed with delight. But once in my life, I didn't want to share it with anybody. I. It was just me and him in this extraordinary communication. But he self organized. I didn't design him, I didn't bolt him together. I just housed him. I just loved him. I didn't do anything else. Yeah. I just followed. That's a privilege. And every single one of us, in whichever way it happened, good, bad or ugly, we've been, we've emerged into that field.
- [32:26]
A
Yes. And when we come from that place and look at it through the way that you've just described as a can, as a continuous emerging phenomenon throughout our whole lives, the idea of getting well by outside intervention starts to seem silly. Not that it's not necessary at times, if I break my leg, or as you said, you need a surgery, but the idea that we could somehow. That somehow we need to be intervened on, to be fully on to thrive.
- [33:14]
B
There you go. Or that our beingness, or that our beingness can be separated from that process. So this is the point that when we're in a surgical or medical situation, they very properly have metrics to measure that blood pressure, heart rate, variability, whatever, and thank God for it. But if we think that's all there is to it, that's when we get into trouble. When we forget the field.
- [33:40]
A
Yes, yes. Because yes, infection happens, accidents happen, and of course those interventions are life saving. But the more that we understand about ourselves as quantum beings, it's the true health comes from removing the barriers that we have to nature, that we have to the source that created us, that is animating this continuous emerging existence we find ourselves in. And so much, yes, so much of, you know, barring the, the necessary medical interventions. But health becomes about removing the barriers that we have unconsciously or inadvertently put exactly between ourselves and the. And our natural ability to thrive.
- [34:33]
B
Exactly. And so if we imagine that we're spiritual beings having a physical experience or a human experience, and we forgive ourselves for not knowing what we're doing, because I don't know about you, Meredith, but there was no manual when I came in. And they certainly forgot to give me one when my son was born. And I just had this huge thing that I had to get it right. And now I'm old enough to look back and go laugh. I mean, I have to laugh and think, God, I didn't know many more about that at the time, otherwise I would not have survived it because I would have been so frightened of what I was about to go into. I would have assumed I couldn't do it. And there I, I managed, I'm here.
- [35:11]
A
Yeah.
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B
So. But it takes us to self acknowledge what we've done and here's where there's an element I'm going to bring in here. When we are overwhelmed with something like social media, just as when our forefathers were overwhelmed with something like this rule and designation from the hope we mold to fit what we think we should be doing.
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A
Yes.
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B
And so we have this idea that we've got to be a certain way or we're not successful, we're not capable, we're not managing, we're not making it. And if I could change one thing in the world, it would be self esteem. Because when you understand the miracle of your self organization that got you to be you, that soul is present, excuse me, expressing itself as itself, through itself. Now we've got lots of social paradigms of we should be able to walk or you should look like this or you should look like. I don't, I don't see any of that. You know, I'm a body worker that I, I am so grateful having worked with donors in a dissection lab. People come to me in my bodywork therapy room and they say things like, oh, you know, I'm so sorry that I, I haven't shaved my legs or I, you know, I'm not wearing the right underwear or I'm not doing whatever. And I just look at them and I go, I don't see any of that. I literally don't see any of that. I don't care about race, creed, color, circumstance, condition, ability. I don't see any of that. I see spirit having this human experience.
- [36:52]
A
Yes.
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B
How can I meet that? Where it's at? That's all. That's it. Beautiful start.
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A
Yes.
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B
And, and because of that, I say to them, I am so thrilled that you're alive and breathing. Thank you. Yes. And it's like, yes, that grace, because when you've studied the embryo at this level and I, and I, I'm in a very privileged position. You know, I've worked with three, four of the top embryologists in the world. And again, I don't know how I didn't go to their universities, but they kind of took me under their wing and loved my storytelling and answered my questions. Bless them. Thank you, all of you. That I just suddenly said, but, but we're magical, we're miraculous.
- [37:32]
A
Yes.
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B
We're Incredible. Just the fact that we're here, those people that I see who have. Have had injuries or have been born in ways that aren't what is known as standard, it just. My heart aches when I see the damage being done to people that supposedly have got to be perfect. And it's. It's getting worse. When AI designs bodies and how they need to be, you know, these. These things on social media, selling you the tablet that's going to make you thin, and there's a picture of an overweight AI cartoon shrinking. Yes. I saw that perfect body. And I'm like, give me a break.
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A
In like five seconds.
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B
It's just. Just come.
- [38:18]
A
Yes.
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B
Come back to this. Because this is magical if you know where to look.
- [38:24]
A
Yes.
- [38:25]
B
And it's already.
- [38:27]
A
There's that feeling like. Like we don't deserve to be here to. At some level.
- [38:33]
B
Yeah.
- [38:34]
A
And yet here we are.
- [38:35]
B
We do.
- [38:36]
A
And that's the proof that we deserve to be here, is that we're here.
- [38:40]
B
We're here. Well said, Meredith. That's brilliant. Absolutely. And. And this is the thing. I personally think the fascia. And don't laugh at me. Do you promise this is.
- [38:50]
A
I promise. I guarantee you I will love what you're gonna say.
- [38:53]
B
So I think the fascia is a matrix of love, light and sound in the body. And that's a scientific statement as well as a spiritual one. And I'm qualified. I'm a spiritual scientist. You know, I have a doctorate in it, so I haven't come to that conclusion in five minutes. And here's why I say it. So next level, anatomy. When you understand fascia, every single part of you grows under tension. It's called a pre tensioned or a pre stiffened architecture. I'll tell you what we mean by that in a minute. But basically, if you think of an orchestra, the instruments, like the string instruments, the cello, the viola, the violin, the piano, is a string instrument. These strings are all tensioned at very specific tensions. Yeah. That's called a pre. That's a tensioned architecture. It's a tension compression architecture. So the bridge and the body of the, let's say violin, is the compression structure, and the strings are tensioned so together it's a tension compression structure. Does that make sense? Yes. So if the strings are soggy and they're not tensioned correctly, they won't make the right note, right? Yeah.
- [40:04]
A
Yeah.
- [40:05]
B
So think of an umbrella. When you put an umbrella up, the spokes tension the fabric.
- [40:11]
A
Yes.
- [40:12]
B
So put your hand up like mine with the back to the camera and spread your fingers really wide. Can you see your, those tendons are like spokes.
- [40:20]
A
Yes.
- [40:20]
B
Well, you're already pre tensioned. You are already an up umbrella in the round. That makes sense. Yes, yes. So that means every single part of you is communicating to every single part of you through the resonance of that instrument. Whether it's a tendon in your hand or a tendon in your foot, or the way an organ in your body expands to fill the space and gets pushed back. Because this expansion and contraction, or peristalsis is the basis of our form. Every time we breathe in, our lungs fill and we breathe out and our lungs squeeze. Now they never empty because they're pre tensioned. So your lungs sit there like a not fully up umbrella.
- [41:07]
A
Right.
- [41:08]
B
And when you breathe fully in, it's a fully up umbrella. But you can't lock it because it's round. It's, it's kind of okay. So then you exhale and it softens and the air goes out and then it's automatically from a pressure gradient point of view comes back in again. But you are a pre tensioned architecture. So what that basically means is, and I'm talking every cell is spherical. Ish.
- [41:34]
A
Yeah.
- [41:35]
B
But what's inside the cell is pushing out. The skin of the cell or the cell membrane is pushing in. So every cell inside an organ is inside a bag. Like your lungs are inside a pleural sac, your heart is inside a pericardial sac. So everything is inside something pushing in and it is pushing out. That's the model of you. It's called a tensegrity model. Now it's, it's, it's complex, but it's.
- [42:00]
A
Like everything has its own little womb.
- [42:02]
B
There you go.
- [42:03]
A
It's okay.
- [42:04]
B
Beautifully said. Everything has its own little instrument. It's, everything's a different part of the orchestra. And even on a visual scale, if you, if you dissect a hand in an arm, for example, and you just have the tendons, you can just pull those tendons and they'll play the hand. They're all connected and you're like, hang on a second. These are instruments and that's how they communicate with themselves. They conduct sound through the architecture. The other part is that we know, gold standard peer reviewed research, that fascia, living fascia, only living fascia emits very low frequency light.
- [42:43]
A
Yeah.
- [42:45]
B
So we've got the light and the sound. And the other thing is that the fascia has a range of sensory awareness. It's the largest sensory organ of the body. And that's blown a hole in everything we've ever learned for the last 500 years because it basically means that it's not mechanical, it's self aware. Wow. Wow.
- [43:07]
A
Okay, so our fascia is self aware.
- [43:11]
B
Yeah. And it's like the screen on your tablet or your touchscreen computer or your phone. If you go into your smartphone, you'll see something called sounds and haptics. Haptics refers to the feedback you get from the screen when you touch it. So you know the difference between tapping it, swiping it, one finger, two fingers, three fingers, scooping it, spreading it. When you want to look at a photograph and enlarge it. We are not year old. Children can get it.
- [43:43]
A
Yes.
- [43:44]
B
That interface, that liquid crystal interface of your screen is haptically responding. And we've discovered. I say we. I didn't have anything to do with it. But what's been discovered.
- [43:58]
A
Yes.
- [43:59]
B
Gold standard peer reviewed research is that fascia is the foundation of haptic perception throughout the form.
- [44:07]
A
Yes.
- [44:08]
B
So every cell in your body is communicating with its neighbor through its haptic perception. And May1ho knew that she's passed now, God rest her soul. She knew that when she wrote about the interface of water bodies. Water bound water. So we now know that the body is a liquid crystal matrix. There are no solid parts.
- [44:32]
A
Oh, I love it.
- [44:34]
B
So we just joined the document quantum biology and quantum bio emotional integrity, which is what I call the human body. The fashion.
- [44:42]
A
Yes.
- [44:43]
B
Bio emotional integrity.
- [44:44]
A
And this is why, going back to. We were talking about earlier, when it comes to health and wellness are the environment that we put our liquid crystal body in. Matters so much whether the. So it's the source of physical visible light, the emotional environment, the sound environment, the. The resonance from the Earth or whether. Or the resonance from a wi fi machine. Like all of this is information interacting with.
- [45:14]
B
We're adapting to that we're adapting to. So this isn't a license to go. Oh my God, I knew it. I'm getting. The rays of the sun are too much for me. Or they're not enough of them. I need to lie down. All that. I get it, I get it. But it's not an excuse for a next level kind of entitlement to be in the right place at the right time. God love us.
- [45:35]
A
How do you mean?
- [45:37]
B
What I mean is it's a. It's a reason for us to learn adaptability. The human body.
- [45:41]
A
Yes.
- [45:42]
B
Incredibly adaptable and resilient.
- [45:45]
A
Yes.
- [45:46]
B
And we are learning adaptability and resilience because 5G is not going away, Jeff. And 5G is in fact our ability to communicate with each other around the world and match the ability of our body's global communication system to work. So in fact our progress to AI is what's giving us a new understanding of bi, meaning artificial intelligence is helping us to understand bio emotional intelligence. Because we were already that intelligent in the first place. We just didn't have the right language to explain it. So I'm sitting there going, AI is brilliant and not if it gets out of hand, but it's learning. Yeah, that's what we are. We already that we didn't invent something that was inventing us.
- [46:33]
A
Yes, well, and so much of it seems to be once you understand the true nature of how, how our existence as you've, you know, just been describing on this podcast and then you brought it back to the phone or you brought it back to the 5G tower, it's seems, and I've heard people say this, and I have yet to discover something where it doesn't apply. It's like the technology always seems to be some sort of reverse engineered aspect of, of something that already exists in nature, in ourselves.
- [47:05]
B
Exactly.
- [47:06]
A
Yeah.
- [47:08]
B
So we are learning to adapt to bigger versions of ourselves. And the think about Newton's, one of Newton's laws that to every there, to every force in the known universe, there's an equal and opposite force. So as we bring forward the terror and the horror and the difficulties that are coming forward, sometimes it's possible to think of them as an equal and opposite force to the light and the empowerment and the brilliance that's coming forward. And it's like the equal and opposite loyalty, the loyal opposition, if you will, trying to darken the light. And it won't be darkened. It won't be darkened. I have to have that faith to keep going. My heart goes out to the underprivileged, the war torn, the criminal victims, all of that. It might literally, they're in my prayers every day. I can't do more than pray for them all the time. Am I getting anywhere?
- [48:17]
A
Yes.
- [48:17]
B
I could also get involved. I know I could go and get.
- [48:20]
A
More and we can focus on the great good news of all that we're learning and the potential that it has. Like we, we talk on this podcast so much about just spending more time outside can have a huge impact on your health. Right. And it's free. It's the right. You just open the window, open the door and it's like, it's sort of like this major innovation, but at the Same time. It's so simple and any. And it's available to anyone. I have a beautiful interview with a woman who had a very, very extreme autoimmune reaction to something. And her husband used to pick her up in the morning and carry her outside and lay her on the grass for the sunrise. And they, you know, and it's like these simple, simple. When we, you know, and she. She could have given up. I mean, it was. Her situation was. She was a movement specialist, though, so she understood how to be patient with her body, which I think was key. Right. But it's. So I hear your. I'm right there with you is what I'm trying to say is that it's like the positive, joyful potential of it all is so much bigger than, you know, things that we might have to be mindful of also.
- [49:49]
B
We're contributing because we're one. So if we take the trouble to find our way, to honor our way to take care of ourselves first so we can help take care of others. That sounds selfish initially. And I, I always sort of thought you could take care of everybody else and then you can look at you. And it was pointed out to me that I was now left empty and devastated and needing help. I was like, oh, that's the wrong way around. Take care of you first. Give freely of your overflow. And in so doing, your prayers go out there, your. Your devotion taking that time to go outside and. And say, I. I've seen experiments where people have stood around a misty lake and prayed and meditated together, and the mist has lifted and the sun has come out and the difference has been made. And we think, oh, that's a bit cooby shooby. No, it's the quantum collective.
- [50:46]
A
Yeah.
- [50:46]
B
Now imagine if we all. Imagine if every single person on this planet for one minute, just one minute, Meredith, all sat down on Mother Earth for that same one minute and prayed for the highest good of all concerned. For the light and the love and the sound of grace, whatever that is to you, whoever you are, whatever religion you call it in under doesn't matter. Can you imagine the shift we could make? Can you imagine the sound of that? You can almost hear the sound of that grace.
- [51:26]
A
Yes.
- [51:26]
B
And it's one of my prayers. You know, I used to have a logo which I think I'm going to get back again, which is a picture of the Earth with the flower of life inside it. And a little, little, I call them peeps all the way around it, just holding hands. And the flower of life is in fact, that comes from the seed of life pattern, which is the third multiplication of the embryonic form. So the moment you form the unicellular being, once it becomes two, then four, then eight at that third multiplication, it's the seed of life pattern in two dimensions. So that pattern, that geometry, that sacred geometry, is sacred because it's the human geometry of forming. It's the geometry forming of everything, every living thing on Earth. It's the geometry. And where we're going with the understanding of fascia is to understand fascia as a geometry. Now, that got lost in translation when Isaac Newton created the language of calculus to make it mathematically possible to communicate to other mathematicians and physicists. And I don't know if you know this, but a lot of physics teachers are music teachers because it's the sense. Yeah. It's harmonics, it's the sound current. And so this tissue resonates to it. You can't help it. We cannot be reduced to 2D. We won't allow ourselves. And people like you. And I bow to you. I bow to you. People like you are making sure that we all don't feel alone in that inner knowing. So thank you for your work. It's stunning. It's such. It's a privilege to be part of it. It really is. I'm not saying that for commercial reasons. I'm saying that because we can only survive as a collective.
- [53:23]
A
Thank you, Joy.
- [53:25]
B
It's true. It's there to be said. I'm just saying it out loud on behalf of everybody that works with you, because I bet they adore you. Just making sure you get it.
- [53:35]
A
Thank you. And I appreciate you honoring your intuition to say that to me. It was actually much needed at this moment. So thank you very much.
- [53:45]
B
Whatever you're dealing with, you're doing brilliantly, and I'm going to crave your indulgence for a moment. Please. I'm going to ask you if I can read a quote from May Won Ho.
- [53:55]
A
Yes.
- [53:55]
B
May I do that?
- [53:56]
A
Let's do it.
- [53:58]
B
Well, this is from chapter seven of my book, Yoga Fascia Anatomy and Movements, the Second edition. And this is called the Fascial Architecture because we actually distinguish the fascia by the different textures in the body, which is partly what confuses people when they're learning about it. But this is an excerpt from May1ho's book, The Meaning of Life and Universe Transforming. Chapter three, Organism and Psyche in a Participatory Universe. I know. And it's. It's a couple of times.
- [54:29]
A
All right. No, let's do it. What we're here for, this is what.
- [54:33]
B
We'Re here for years ago. So I just want to, you know, this isn't my wisdom. This is her wisdom. A theory of the organism. There are about 75 trillion cells in our body, made up of astronomical numbers of molecules of many different kinds. How can this huge conglomerate of disparate cells and molecules function so perfectly as a coherent whole? How can we summon energy at will to do whatever we want? And most of all, how is it possible for there to be a singular I that we all feel ourselves to be amid this diverse multiplicity? So here's our answer. Well, it's not an answer, it's a bigger question. To give an idea of the coordination of activities involved, imagine an immensely huge super orchestra playing with instruments spinning an incredible spectrum of sizes, from a piccolo of 10 to the minus 9 meter, up to a bassoon of or a bass viol of a meter or more, and a musical range of perhaps 70 octaves. The amazing thing about this super orchestra is that it never ceases to play out our individual song lines with a certain recurring rhythm and beat, but in endless variations that never repeat exactly. Always there is something new, something made up as it goes along. It can change key, change tempo, change tune perfectly as it feels like it, or as the situation demands, spontaneously and without hesitation. Furthermore, each and every player, however small, can enjoy maximum freedom of expression, improvising from moment to moment while maintaining in step and in tune with the whole. I have just described a theory of the quantum coherence that underlies the radical wholeness of the organism, which involves total participation, maximizing both local freedom and global cohesion. It involves the mutual implication of global and local, of part and whole, from moment to moment. It is on that basis that we can have a sense of ourselves as a singular being, despite the diverse multiplicity of parts. That is also how we can perceive the unity of the here and now in an act of prehensive unification, according to Whitehead. And there's a link to an Whitehead Science in the Modern World. Penguin Books, harmon's worth in 1925, he wrote this prehensive unification. Artists, like scientists, depend on the same exquisite sense of prehensive unification to see patterns, patterns that connect apparently disparate phenomena. To add corroborative details to the theory of the organism, I shall give a more scientific narrative, beginning with energy relationships. Drop the mic. I mean, seriously, she wrote that decades ago. And I feel we should have a moment of silence in reverence.
- [58:01]
A
Yeah.
- [58:06]
B
We are an exquisite instrument. And we sometimes get very fierce about our movements. We've got to do those movements, we've got to spend an hour doing them, we've got to sweat until we drop. We've got to compete at these Olympic, what Paul Thornley calls gladiator levels. What about the subtle stuff? And so that's where we come in with the. The part of the fascia that works so beautifully to feed us and it wants to love us. And actually what happens when we can't move is it's basically saying, I don't trust you because you're doing something that totally violates the need for me to move. So I'm not going to do it. I'm going to stop, because you're being completely daft about what you're doing, and I'm not going to let you do it. And when you come from it as a tissue of love, light and sound, and you start becoming your own fascia whisperer, you can literally tune into the movement of what I call this magical inner awareness, and you learn to see what it's saying to you, learn to hear what it's saying to you. But there's such a subtle spectrum. So it's changing the way we treat scar tissue, it's changing the way we teach movement, it's changing the repertoire that we give our clients, often the manual therapy table. And it's. I like to call it the seasoning and the spice that we add to a movement dish. So it's absolutely delicious, but it makes us master chefs, right?
- [59:35]
A
And it's. It's maintaining an intuitive communication with our own selves, always. And so instead of the will or the intellect overriding, like, I have to hit this, I have to do it. It's like, what is my fascia telling me that I need in this moment?
- [59:59]
B
Yes, I'll give you exactly perfect example. My son lived away. He hasn't been. He's 30, so he was living somewhere else for the last nine years. And last year he. Various things changed in his life and he said, mum, could I come home for a while? And I said, yeah, of course. And he's very, very fit, always out training and studied sports and exercise science, loves his sport, loves teachings, he's fabulous. And he sort of said to me, I'd been quite ill two years ago. I had to have this surgery, as I mentioned, and I was still really recovering, and he said to me, mum, you need to be moving more. And I said, you know what? You're absolutely right. When you drive to work Drop me off at this place called Five Ways. That's not very far from us.
- [60:41]
A
Yeah.
- [60:42]
B
And I'll walk home. I thought, great. He goes out really early in the morning. I get a lovely walk first thing in the morning. Great. So I went from naught to a mile and a half uphill overnight. And I did it every day because that's what I'm like, all or nothing, right?
- [60:55]
A
Yes.
- [60:58]
B
Well, after seven days, I cannot tell you. I. I can't even tell you. My body was just like, excuse me, what are you doing to me?
- [61:08]
A
Yeah.
- [61:08]
B
And then I. Then I had one day, I had a client and I have a studio next to my house, and I saw that client, and it was the. I don't know what, the seventh or eighth day that I'd done this great long walk in the morning. So disregarded my schedule completely. Didn't make any room for an extra time to recover or do anything to teach other people to do.
- [61:29]
A
Yeah.
- [61:29]
B
I'm the idiot, right? Doing this.
- [61:32]
A
We're doing this now.
- [61:33]
B
Yep. That's.
- [61:33]
A
Yeah.
- [61:34]
B
I'm going to turn myself into this walking genius. So marching up the hill. I'm doing this every day, and I go into this client, and I absolutely know this client isn't going to be with us for very long. I just know in my soul, and I'm absolutely heartbroken. And you can't get emotional in that situation. It's not an appropriate place to be.
- [61:57]
A
Yeah.
- [61:57]
B
You can be quiet and reverent. And he kind of knew, too. And he was just asking for the most subtle listening. There was no therapy to be done. There was a holding space. It was one of those situations where you were ministering, not administering, if that makes sense. Yes. And he got up from the table and he left. And I knew in my soul it was the last time I was going to see him. And my knee swelled up to the size of a piece. Small football. And I had to sit down. I couldn't move. And my friend was coming for a session, and she looked at me, she said, you can't treat me. I'm taking you straight to the hospital. They got me to the hospital and they did the triage. My blood pressure was through the roof. I was reading the monitor, and the triage nurse was looking at it and looking at me. And he could tell by my face. And he basically said, oh, damn it. I should have hidden this from you. You know, what you're looking at, obviously. And I said, yeah. He said, we need you to have an ECG immediately. I mean, they Thought I was going to have a heart attack.
- [63:05]
A
Wow.
- [63:07]
B
And I said I'll be okay, don't rush but yeah, sure, whatever you want to do. And I just went quietly and I did my meditation. I brought myself back and I thought by emotional intelligence, this is emotion I haven't given, given myself the time, the time to recover from Nothing to walking 2, 3 miles uphill a day. The time to allow for this emotional devastation. And I, they didn't come to me for an hour and when they came my ECG was completely normal and it only took me an hour to recover. But it was, yeah, recover long enough to change my timetable and give myself credit for a system, a body wide system that needed my compassion. And it was basically shouting at me, it was saying, will you stop? So what did it do? It cut me off at the knees and they were all like, oh my God, you've got a baker's cyst, you've got this, you've got that. And I mean I was absolutely fine. It literally took time. Very gentle, subtle movements. Within a couple of weeks I had completely recovered. But what it reminded me because I was on the phone to John Sharkey, John, God, look, am I dying? And I'm showing him my knee and he said, oh, it's probably a baker cyst and an analysis and a this and that. I had all the charts, I had all the measurements, I had all the metrics. Just needed to stop in the face of something that was so huge to me. I honestly didn't know how to deal with it. So please know my wisdom is great when it's on anyone else, not brilliant when it's on me like all of us. I know such a good example, it's.
- [64:46]
A
Such a good example.
- [64:48]
B
It's a bio emotional intelligence. And it was, yeah, over a year ago now, I think six months ago, something like that. And I've never had any problem with my knees. But I also don't do those great big long walks every single day uphill. I do smaller ones and I space them out and I'm fine.
- [65:06]
A
Yes.
- [65:07]
B
I wasn't listening to my own magical inner awareness.
- [65:14]
A
Right.
- [65:14]
B
That's the example of that for you. I hope it makes beautiful.
- [65:19]
A
Absolutely. And so often if we don't listen, our bodies force us to. By ceasing to function, they keep the.
- [65:31]
B
School well what they do, they do something very, very clever that we don't understand, most of us don't understand. They do something called inhibit. They try to inhibit the motion that's going to aggravate the Pain. So we go along and we say, oh, look, you've got restricted range of motion. Let me see if we can get through that.
- [65:53]
A
Right.
- [65:53]
B
It's the body's way of saying, you're not speaking my language to that body part. And John Sharkey shares something absolutely brilliant. He says, say, for example, your wrist speaks Spanish and your back latissimus dorsey, if you want to talk in muscles, it's just a language of convenience. And I please learn it, but learn it as a language of convenience, not necessarily an accurate story of the body. Does that make sense?
- [66:19]
A
Yeah.
- [66:20]
B
So let's say latissimus dorsey speaks Italian, and I'm quoting John here, sometimes it's necessary for a surgeon. When there's damage to the arm, they will take some of the slips of latissimus dorsey and transplant them to the wrist. You know, I've had the privilege of Jean Claude Gamberto, who wrote the Strolling under the Skin and all the beautiful fascia films he did with an endoscope in living tissue. And he explained to me how they sometimes transplant latissimus dorsey into another part of the body. But it takes time because latissimus Dorsey speaks, let's say, Italian and the wrist speaks Spanish or Japanese or whatever. And they. It's got to learn a new language if it's going to be there. And this is. We could talk about this as another whole podcast about how when body parts are transplanted. You've probably heard stories of heart transplants, whether the quantum field of the heart that's transplanted. My. My second cousin has a heart transplant. He, he was given 12 years and 20 something years later, he's still with us. And he had such huge respect for the quantum field that was put in his body. He had dreams, he had messages, and he. Him they weren't his history.
- [67:40]
A
I've heard that people suddenly knowing how to do things they didn't know how to do after a transplant.
- [67:46]
B
Yeah.
- [67:46]
A
Remembering things that are not their memories.
- [67:49]
B
Well, even your own muscles from one part of your body have. Have a language. They can't be reduced to a function. They have a language. Latissimus dorsey has a very different language to, to your thumb hypothenial muscle or your thenar muscle. This one here.
- [68:06]
A
Yeah.
- [68:06]
B
And. And they speak different languages. So a very clever surgeon will put a piece of one onto another to give you the movement you want, but it doesn't speak that language yet. So you have to give it time.
- [68:19]
A
Right.
- [68:19]
B
So John Sharkey calls fascia the tissue of temporality in the body. It needs time.
- [68:25]
A
It needs time. It's beautiful.
- [68:28]
B
It takes up space and it needs time.
- [68:31]
A
Yes. And that, that brings us back. We talked about, you know, how we, you know, over intervening and oath, but also over outsourcing, like going to someone else or. Well, what should I do about this or what should I do about that? When in fact the starting point, I mean I'm all about having health coaches and every, you know. Absolutely. But the starting point is we need to be able to trust ourselves and know what we need on a moment to moment basis and feel back to the deserving right. I deserve to be here and I'm allowed to have this agency, this what I'm supposed to be doing.
- [69:15]
B
You're a divine being. You are human. And whatever you call the grace that you bring in, you might call it God, you might call it, it doesn't matter, call it nature, call it the source, whatever it is for you, something bigger than you breathes you. Because you can't stop yourself breathing, you'll pass out. That. I'm not saying we can't kill ourselves, of course we can. But we can't do it through asphyxiation because you'll pass out before you do that. Something bigger than you breathes you. And the word human means divine being, divine mana, manner is, manner is food, divine food, divine nourishment, divine, divine gift. Every single human being, they may not know it, they may not have become aware of it yet, but every one of us is a divine being. Divinity needs it, loves all of its creation. You deserve to be here, same as everybody else. And this is one of the things I love. I discovered this in writing. Yoga, fascia, anatomy and movement. I thought if every single one of us is unique, then actually we're all the same. Because that's what makes us all the same, is that every one of us is unique. And when I got that, I started giggling. I can't tell you. I just had this fit of the giggles and suddenly everything felt kind of empty and meaningless. But it was empty and meaningless, that it was empty and meaningless. It was just like, so what is there to do? And this voice came through. Whatever's next. And I love what you said about agency because for me, the first thing you know, when I had the diagnosis that I had that nobody wants two years ago, that required the surgery, I remember I was having the biopsies and I looked at the, I looked at the radiographer and I said to her, look, I know too much about the human body. For my own good and not enough for anyone else's. I'm not a medical doctor, but I know that you do this job all the time, and you look at these biopsies all the time, and what you're looking at, Is it likely that I don't want to know? Said, I know you're not giving me a diagnosis, but I don't need to wait 10 days for a letter. Just tell me. Tell me, is it likely that I don't want to know what you're looking at? She went, yeah, it is likely that you don't want to know what I'm looking at? And it was like, oh, great. And then I just sat there and I thought, I did this. I did it with the best intentions. Was a diagnosis of breast cancer, and it was in my lymph. I had to have a lymphectomy and a lumpectomy, and it was. I just sat there, and I. This peace came over me. I can't explain it, Meredith. I can't tell you it was me handling things well, because it wasn't. It was just this peace came over me, and it was like I was standing on the train track of my life, and this train was coming towards me, it high speed with oncology written on the number plate. And I fell off the track. I just fell off the track. I was just like, I can't do this. And I didn't know what it was I couldn't do. I didn't know which bit was out of whack. I. I couldn't beat myself up. I couldn't sit there doing a sort of a Louise Hay, which mantra do I need? God bless her. It was just like when I went, whatever WTF stands for in my world. What the fascia. But it was what the fashion. And I literally fell off that track into a pile of grace. I cannot tell you how many people rallied around me, how many friends came up and said, what can I do to assist? How many. The surgeon was just amazing. He was just amazing. And he said to me, okay, you're supposed to be in hospital for a week with a drain. You know what you're doing. Don't you dare get lymphedema. Literally how he said it to me, don't you dare. And he said, I'm gonna see if I can get you out in a day and have you have this resolved. And he did. And it was, wow. And I'm saying, I achieved anything. You know, I was. I had a team. I had a medical team, and it was Months of work, but I came out with a completely broken wing. Couldn't move my right shoulder and arm at all and expected it to take me probably about 12 months to recover.
- [73:48]
A
Yeah.
- [73:49]
B
And I had, I had a cohort of ideas and what I should, could, would do, if only. And I had a little sequence, a sort of 8 to 12 minute sequence of micro movement. And I thought in my prayers I got some sort of answer. Just, just do that. Just eat well and do that. And I did 12 minutes a day, every day. And I couldn't do it for the first six weeks because I could only imagine the movements. And I could only move my arm using the other hand to help it. But within 12 weeks I could do full weight bearing yoga. And no one can tell which side I had the surgeries. Wow. And that is what inspired me to bring the work forward. And then the publisher said, could you please do a series of five books based on the practices in yoga, fascia, anatomy and movement and the master classes that you did last year and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Paul Thornley stepped up to the plate because he'd been developing various movements in a similar way. You know, John Sharkey and other people. And his own experience extensively as a soldier and a genuine soldier in the, in the Royal Air Force.
- [75:11]
A
Yeah.
- [75:11]
B
And martial arts. And between us, this sequence came together of such beautiful movements. So. But I'm like the walking, I'm the mom.
- [75:25]
A
And that came from your.
- [75:26]
B
Came from my experience, your moment of.
- [75:28]
A
Crisis and how you chose to move through it. Yes.
- [75:32]
B
It became a moment the same. I just sat there with it and I thought, I don't know what to do with this. It was so beyond my intellect, my instinct, my intuition. You know, there's moments of God, how would you do this to me? I thought you wanted me to work hard for you. Why do you want to do this to me? But, but what actually happened was when I told my son, he said, I'm coming home. I said, no, you're not. You're fine. You know, you've got your work, you. He lives three hours away from me. Blah, blah. No, it's a given, Mom. It's not for discussion. And he came here and he watched over me for 10 days. Didn't take his eyes off me, didn't fuss me, but served me and made sure I was okay. Made sure I didn't need anything and made sure that I didn't have to carry anything. And that food was on the table beautifully cooked. He was just amazing. 10 days and he Said, are you okay now? And I went, yeah. And he was done, and I was done. We don't fuss each other, right? But I just thought, okay, hang on a second.
- [76:25]
A
That intuitive communication that you've been developing with him since he was in utero.
- [76:32]
B
Thank you. Beautifully heard and said. And I just sat there and I thought, hang on a minute. The God I worship doesn't do this unless there's more for me to learn than there is to lose. That's my fundamental belief.
- [76:48]
A
Oh, love that.
- [76:51]
B
And I just said, okay, what's the lesson here? And. And this voice just said, watch and learn. And everything came to me. I mean, I even had a studio hired to film the course. And I'd done one course that didn't feel quite right. I'd done a movement course. And I was thinking, this is not quite right. And I had this conversation with Paul and I said to him, he's in Dubai, I'm in England. I said, paul, I just need some inspiration for the specifics of this, to make it, to give it to people so that people can take it away. I don't want them to need me and I don't. I want them to add it to their repertoire. I don't want to teach a new modality. They don't need any more modalities. God's sake, bless their hearts, they're fed up with it. Give them the seasoning to the ingredients they already have whatever they are, the real common denominators. And he said, when do you want to speak to me? This was on the Thursday or the Friday. And I said, Sunday. Let's have a Zoom call at Sunday at 6. And at 5 to 6, there was a knock on my front door and it was him in person. No, seriously, that's what he is. And he's in person on my door. I said, what are you doing here? He says, are you going to let me in? It's suitcase and everything. I said, wait, what? He said, well, let's do it. Doing does it, let's do it. And I was like, dewey, does it.
- [78:05]
A
Let's do it. Oh, my gosh, I love that. And now the two of you have developed this training together.
- [78:10]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [78:11]
A
Which, I mean, I can't recommend enough to anyone listening. Like, what a beautiful this was.
- [78:18]
B
It's brilliant.
- [78:19]
A
Divinely inspired.
- [78:21]
B
Yeah, it's brilliant. And I'm not saying it's brilliant because I'm brilliant. I'm saying it's brilliant because of all the heavenly reasons and divine intervention that came together to bring it Together because the people in it are just, we, we don't even have anything. Like you've got to pay for a license after you've done the training. The training is a proper training. It's, you know, it's not the cheapest in the world, it's not the most expensive. But what it does is it brings an already practiced practitioner the keys, the five keys and that I had to go through to learn to use and I developed them before. But I just thought, do what it was like this voice was going, what do you think you've been working on? Why do you think I gave you this information? Use it, be it. Right, yeah, but, but, but why is it going to work? Try it. Hey, why don't you try it? You know, I have these chats with. God, I have these raging arguments sometimes. But anyway, it was one of my chats.
- [79:12]
A
Yeah, no, brilliant.
- [79:14]
B
Yeah. And Paul just came in and got on with it because he's a real. Get on with it. Paul is all about doing.
- [79:19]
A
Clearly flying in from Dubai, hello.
- [79:22]
B
Seriously love it. He's brilliant. And we just, you know, we were in the studio, we had the videographer and I was going to slow down and do that and shall we do that? And then he said I need a model. So I was the model. So he's actually teaching me in some of the videos. It's a self paced course but we have weekly coaching with everybody and it's. The community's growing, the program. Does that make sense? I know you know the same thing.
- [79:48]
A
Yeah, that's.
- [79:49]
B
Are you doing what you plan to do two years ago? No, of course you're not. Because communities designed you.
- [79:54]
A
Yeah, same thing. Oh, I love it. Well, we will provide all the information for people to find that. And I, as I said, I mean I can't, I can't endorse it strongly enough. Please. Not, you know what, the actual details of what you're teaching, but also just, just the whole energy that you bring to the table. Joanne, is it, it's, it's incredible. So anyone who could have the opportunity to participate in that with you and, and Paul, I really encourage you to do so and thank you so much for being here. I mean, well, we'll have to do this again. I don't have to put you on.
- [80:38]
B
I have to have Paul, you have to interview.
- [80:40]
A
Yeah, I would love to.
- [80:41]
B
He's. I would love to. I was just going to say you haven't met Paul yet and you must interview John as well because I think John is Irish. Paul studied with John like 25 years ago and has taken the work through in his own work with the Pilates. He's an instructor trainer and he's just bloody amazing. And he's got a Mancunian accent from Manchester, but he lived in Dublin for years, so it's got this Irish bit to it. And when you get in the rhythm, he says, I talk funny. We have this joke, you know, England's one of the smallest countries in the world and anyone south of Watford is considered foreign. So we have this game that neither of us speaks the same language. But anyway, you'll love him. Have Paul. Really.
- [81:25]
A
I'd love to. Yeah, we will, we'll set that up. This is, I mean, just wonderful conversations and we'll, we'll bring it back. And thank you. Thank you for everything you brought to this. It was a magical experience.
- [81:38]
B
Thank you. Woo hoo.
- [81:40]
A
You made it to the end of another episode. Thank you so much for joining us on this exploratory adventure into new realms. Your energy and support are building a different world and I am so grateful to be on this journey with you. Take care and thanks.