The Rich Roll Podcast

Episode: Psychologist Marc Brackett On Why You Can't Name Your Emotions, Cognitive Strategies For Emotional Regulation, & Giving Yourself Permission To Feel
Host: Rich Roll
Guest: Dr. Marc Brackett
Date: September 15, 2025

Overview

This episode is a deep dive into emotional intelligence and its transformative power in both personal and professional spheres. Rich Roll interviews Dr. Marc Brackett, professor of psychology at Yale and director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence. Together, they explore why so many people struggle to name, understand, and regulate their emotions—and how this impacts every aspect of life from relationships to workplace performance. Throughout, Dr. Brackett shares the framework, concepts, and tools from his latest book, Dealing with Feeling, with actionable strategies to help listeners develop robust emotional skills. The tone is open, candid, and hands-on, with stories from both men’s personal lives and broader research.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of Emotional Regulation

[04:16]–[08:40]

• Rich frames self-regulation as the "single most important skill" we can acquire, suggesting our ability to manage emotions defines the quality and trajectory of our lives.
• Without emotional regulation, we live reactively—letting circumstances and others dictate our moods and behaviors.
• It’s not just a personal skill: teaching kids emotional regulation early is absolutely life-changing.

“If you can't or you don't know how to deal with your feelings, especially our difficult ones, we're kind of doomed to living reactively...” —Rich Roll [06:09]

2. Dr. Marc Brackett’s Mission: An Emotion Revolution

[08:40]–[12:18]

• Brackett’s audacious goal is to create an "emotion revolution," advocating for self-awareness as a basic human right.
• Most of his work focuses on the RULER curriculum, implemented in 5,000 schools, reaching 7 million children.
• Emotional literacy is foundational, especially in a world transformed by technology and rapid change.

“There is a lot of resistance to people being self aware, which blows my mind.” —Marc Brackett [09:19]

3. Why Is Emotional Education a Blind Spot?

[11:36]–[14:04]

• Culturally, feelings are often feared, especially among men. Vulnerability is stigmatized as weakness.
• Personal anecdote: Brackett shares his struggle with expressing emotions due to trauma, noting how men are socialized not to discuss “negative” feelings, which perpetuates generational patterns of silence.
• The lack of emotional vocabulary shuts down connection and growth.

“Is it at all possible that your son might ever experience bullying?... Is it at all possible that your son might ever experience bullying?...” —Marc Brackett [13:05]

4. What Are Emotions & Why Language Matters

[14:45]–[20:09]

• Brackett distinguishes between affect, emotion, feeling, mood, and disposition:
  • Emotion: An automatic response to a stimulus, shaped by culture and development.
  • Mood: A lower-intensity but longer-lasting emotional state.
  • Feeling: A private, subjective experience.
• The key is not to self-identify completely with emotions—they are impermanent.

“One of the key elements of an emotion is its impermanence. And that is so beautiful. It's very freeing.” —Marc Brackett [18:02]

5. Emotions as Data: Five Reasons Emotions Matter

[19:27]–[20:09]

1. Attention and memory
2. Decision making
3. Quality of relationships
4. Physical and mental health
5. Performance (work, school)

“Emotions matter for everything.” —Marc Brackett [20:12]

6. The RULER Framework for Emotional Intelligence

[23:41]–[30:51]

Brackett’s framework identifies five key emotional skills:

• Recognize emotions in self and others
• Understand causes/consequences of emotions
• Label emotions accurately
• Express emotions appropriately
• Regulate emotions effectively

Recognizing & Understanding Emotions

• Rich and Marc role-play the difference between anger (response to injustice) and disappointment (unmet expectations).
• Many emotional disputes come from mislabeling feelings—which blocks empathy and effective response.

“Behavior is not feeling. Behavior is behavior… We assume that we know how people feel based on their behavior. That's understanding of emotion.” —Marc Brackett [26:53]

Labeling Emotions

• The more granular your emotion vocabulary, the more precisely you can regulate.
• Early intervention (when emotions are “peeved” not “enraged”) allows teaching and self-correction.

“When you can label it, you can regulate it.” —Marc Brackett [31:26]

7. Emotional Self-Awareness vs. Indulgence

[37:10]–[39:51]

• Self-awareness is vital; self-indulgence or endless rumination is not.
• Emotional intelligence isn’t about constantly focusing on your feelings, but about strategic check-ins that bring presence and clarity.

"Self awareness is a gift. Self indulgence is a life that's going to be very difficult for you." —Marc Brackett [37:17]

8. Shifting Mindsets: Permission to Feel

[44:00]–[52:03]

• Emotional resilience comes from learning to live with feelings, not avoid or wallow in them.
• Emotions aren’t ‘bad’; anxiety and discomfort are signals, not something to be eradicated.
• Emotional skills are 100% learnable—no one is born with them.
• The “Permission to Feel” strategy is core: giving yourself and others explicit acceptance for their emotional experience.

“Permission to feel… that’s the master strategy of emotion regulation.” —Marc Brackett [72:29]

9. Expression & Co-Regulation

[51:10]–[54:03]

• To express feelings healthily requires trust, practice, and explicit instruction.
• Most people have not learned how to communicate difficult emotions (anger, disappointment) without blame or withdrawal.
• Co-regulation (parents, teachers, leaders modeling emotional regulation and offering empathy) is as important as self-regulation.

“Do I feel safe and comfortable with you telling you how I really feel?” —Marc Brackett [51:10]

10. Emotional Intelligence as Organizational Culture

[55:36]–[62:14]

• Emotionally intelligent leadership predicts team productivity, retention, and well-being.
• Investment in emotional skills is cost-effective—more so than hiring more psychologists or reliance on AI mental health tools.
• Societal change requires system-level investment and mindset shifts; otherwise, anxiety and loneliness will rise.

"Prevention is way more cost effective than intervention." —Marc Brackett [59:18]

11. Emotional Regulation: The Master Skill

[64:28]–[70:14]

• Brackett introduces the PRIME model for regulation: Prevent, Reduce, Initiate, Maintain, Enhance emotions.
• Regulation requires personalizing strategies: cognitive (self-talk, reframing) and behavioral (taking a walk, deep breathing).
• The key is building a toolkit, not seeking “one magic solution.”

“Emotion regulation is the master skill, period.” —Marc Brackett [64:54]

12. Practical Tools and Strategies

[88:49]–[110:00]

The Mood Meter

• Visual tool with two axes: energy (high/low) and pleasantness (pleasant/unpleasant), yielding four quadrants (yellow, green, blue, red).
• Cultivates awareness and vocabulary; mapping your mood offers insights for regulation.

The Meta Moment

• A pause between stimulus and response to deactivate, reflect, and choose the best version of yourself.
• Practiced in both proactive and reactive contexts.
• Sometimes the “best strategy” is simple kindness to self.

“If you can train yourself to go from automatic habitual reaction to automatic habitual step back and breathe and pause, that space that you're building is incredibly rich.” —Marc Brackett [97:00]

Cognitive Interventions

• Strategies such as reframing, spatial/temporal distancing, self-compassion, and “watching your self-talk.”
• Practical uses: e.g., picturing a difficult interaction as a movie to gain distance.

13. The Power of Empathy & Emotional Allies

[71:12]–[85:07]

• Children and adults need “Uncle Marvins”—emotion allies who listen, empathize, and never judge.
• Most of us didn’t have such people as kids, but we can become them for others.
• At work, emotional allies foster psychological safety and trust.

“Nobody wants to be around the expert. They're looking for presence.” —Marc Brackett [81:34]

14. Parenting, Schools, and Systemic Change

[146:53]–[151:13]

• RULER starts with training adults (teachers, principals, and parents) to foster lasting change.
• Parents can advocate for RULER in their schools and model co-regulation.
• Emotional intelligence is not “soft”; it’s fundamental to all learning and socialization.
• Ultimate goal: Emotional intelligence as identity, not an add-on.

“My hope is to help people see emotional intelligence as part of their identity.” —Marc Brackett [133:19]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On impermanence:
  “One of the key elements of an emotion is its impermanence. And that is so beautiful. It's very freeing…” —Marc Brackett [18:02]

• On mislabeling emotions:
  “Behavior is not feeling. Behavior is behavior… We assume that we know how people feel based on their behavior. That's understanding of emotion.” —Marc Brackett [26:53]

• On self-awareness vs. indulgence:
  “Self awareness is a gift. Self indulgence is a life that's going to be very difficult for you.” —Marc Brackett [37:17]

• On emotional regulation:
  “Emotion regulation is the master skill, period.” —Marc Brackett [64:54]

• On failing and self-criticism:
  “With permission to feel comes permission to fail… When I mess up—and I mess up a lot... It’s already happened: be curious about it, not judgmental.” —Marc Brackett [140:43]

• On being an ally:
  “Nobody wants to be around the expert. They're looking for presence.” —Marc Brackett [81:34]

• On system-level change:
  “We have not made a commitment as a society to develop these skills in people. And when we make that commitment… we'll see the decreases in those unpleasant experiences.” —Marc Brackett [54:03]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:16] Why emotional regulation defines life quality
• [08:40] Dr. Brackett’s mission and Yale’s RULER
• [11:36] Socialization, stigma, and the need for emotional vocabulary
• [14:45] What are emotions? Vocabulary is critical
• [19:27] Five reasons emotions matter
• [23:41] RULER framework: breakdown of skills
• [30:51] Why labeling matters
• [37:10] Self-awareness versus self-indulgence
• [39:51] Permission to Feel and resilience
• [44:00] Emotional resilience—living with emotions
• [51:10] The challenge and necessity of healthy expression
• [55:36] Emotional intelligence at work; prevention over treatment
• [64:28] Emotional regulation: goals, strategies, learning
• [88:49] Tools: Mood Meter, the Meta Moment
• [113:24] Cognitive strategy: distancing, reframing, self-compassion
• [146:53] How parents and schools can bring RULER to children

Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a practical, science-backed, and empathetic roadmap to transforming how we handle emotions. By mastering self-awareness, emotional language, and regulation strategies, we unlock potential in ourselves, our children, and our workplaces—yielding not only personal fulfillment but societal resilience.

For more:

• Check out Dr. Marc Brackett’s Dealing with Feeling
• Visit rulerapproach.org to learn more about the RULER method and bringing it to schools and organizations
• Download the How We Feel app for daily emotional check-ins

“Tomorrow is the next best day of your life.” —Marc Brackett [135:45]