ROLL ON: American Tiger, Adventures Abroad, & The Art of Showing Up

Summary

The Rich Roll Podcast

Episode: ROLL ON: American Tiger, Adventures Abroad, & The Art of Showing Up

Date: October 9, 2025
Host: Rich Roll
Co-host: Adam Skolnick

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Episode Overview

This “Roll On” episode explores themes of personal growth, the power of storytelling, embracing adventures, and the importance of showing up for oneself and others, especially during challenging family moments. Rich and Adam share personal stories, discuss Adam’s new novel, recap Rich’s whirlwind travels (including the World Athletics Championships in Tokyo), unpack emotional family transitions, and reflect on life, memory, community, and purpose. The episode is rich in real-life anecdotes, insight into the creative process, and commentary on recent events in sports, endurance, and culture.

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Key Topics & Highlights

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Studio Upgrades & Opening Banter

[02:39-03:28]

• The show opens with friendly banter about the new overhead microphones in the studio, freeing the hosts to have a more conversational and liberating setup.
• Adam jokes: “It could go completely off the rails because we’re going to forget that we’re being recorded.” (03:22)

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Power of Story: Roger Owens the Peanut Guy

[03:30-08:26]

• Adam recounts his “fungal” (not viral) Instagram post about Roger Owens, a legendary peanut vendor at Dodgers games who’s been working for over 60 years—even after a stroke last year at age 83.
• Adam celebrates the outpouring of positive memories from fans, illustrating how small acts of joy touch generations.
• Adam: “No matter who you are, no matter what you do, you can make a huge impact. And that’s what this guy has done—amazing life just through doing this thing that brought him joy, bringing other people joy.” (07:20)

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Adam’s Big News: Announcing “American Tiger”

[08:40-14:59]

• Adam announces his debut novel American Tiger, out December 2, 2025. The book’s genesis dates back over 20 years but has been his focus since the pandemic.
• The novel’s setting—the wild corners of Southern California—is personally meaningful, making the recording of the audiobook in Rich’s LA studio extra special.
• Adam describes the arduous writing and editing process (“twenty-five, twenty-six drafts”) and the self-doubt that comes with fiction.
• Adam shares pre-order details: americantigerbook.com, and mentions his Substack for behind-the-scenes info.
• Notable quote:
  • “Ever since I got into writing, I’ve wanted to do fiction and nonfiction. All the writers I most admire have done that… So it's taken a while to figure out the pathway to publication, but we found it.” (09:40)

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Rich’s Whirlwind Travels: Tokyo and Beyond

[15:10-25:21]

• Rich recaps a packed itinerary: NYC → DC → LA → Tokyo (World Athletics Championships) → NYC → DC → home.
• He details working with On (running apparel brand) in Tokyo, experiencing their massive brand activation and store opening.
• Highlights include:
  • Experiencing urban Japanese culture in Shibuya.
  • Witnessing George Beamish’s gold medal win in the steeplechase, On’s first-ever global gold (“…his kick was so insane—he just literally flicked a switch and passed everyone.” [20:16])
  • Seeing world record pole vaulter Mondo Duplantis in action.
  • Innovations in On’s shoe tech (the “Light Spray” robot-crafted upper).
• Rich describes Japan as “incredibly livable,” praising the culture of respect, dignity, and quality in everyday interactions.

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Japanese Adventures with Craig Mod

[25:57-27:52]

• Rich shares a day in Tokyo with celebrated writer Craig Mod, exploring neighborhoods, sampling omakase coffee, and glimpsing authentic local life.
• Adam, himself a travel writer, revels in the prospect: “It would be so amazing just to walk—do one walk with him just through any town in Japan.” (25:21)

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Eating Plant-Based in Tokyo

[26:18-27:52]

• Rich notes that plant-based eating options are now abundant in Tokyo, in contrast to previous years.
• He applauds the cultural care for others and pride in all kinds of work: "It was very evident that is a cultural thing we don't have here…" (26:25)

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The Art of Showing Up: Family, Dementia, & Healing

[31:49-55:22]

• Rich recounts shifting from book work to confronting a family crisis: helping his mother, who has advanced dementia, move into a Washington, DC, memory-care facility.
• Emotional candor: Rich reflects on the emotional toll, family roles, and the sense of dignity and service in supporting aging parents.
• He examines the impact of his difficult relationship with his mother—her childhood trauma and generational cycles.
• Memorable quotes:
  • “This is what you get to do when you’re sober and you’re clear-minded: you show up for the people in your life that need you.” (34:26)
  • “Part of our job as parents is to interrupt unhealthy generational patterns so that we don’t pass them on to our kids… that’s a really important part of the job.” (39:39)
  • “Can I practice more love, even when all my buttons are pushed—because she installed them?” (51:13)
• Adam shares his own healing journey after childhood abuse, relating it to Rich’s process of internal reckoning over seeking external validation or “closure.”
  • Adam: “You have to… make peace within yourself with the circumstance.” (53:12)

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High School Reunions & Revisiting the Past

[61:35-74:29]

• Rich tells a humorous story about accidentally attending the wrong high school reunion while grappling with family responsibilities in DC (“I’m at the wrong… reunion party!” [63:25]).
• Going to the correct gathering proves healing, breaking decades-long narratives about his former classmates.
  • “You show up, and you realize whatever your bullshit story is—I guarantee you it’s unfounded for the most part…” (69:13)
• The broader lesson: Show up even when uncomfortable; connection and resolution come from presence, not avoidance.

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Reflections on Community, Identity, & Growth

[71:53-76:33]

• Adam and Rich examine how adolescent identity is shaped by “science experiment” environments and how adulthood brings perspective.
  • “We have almost everything in common with every human being… but let’s focus on that one thing that I remember forty years ago.” (72:53, 72:59)
• They breakdown nostalgia around famous Santa Monica High alumni (e.g., Rob Lowe, Charlie Sheen, Sean Penn, Robert Downey Jr.) and the changing nature of Malibu, LA, and elite schools.

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Pop Culture & Endurance: Netflix, Alex Honnold, and Extreme Stunts

[86:22-95:34]

• Discussion of Netflix live-streaming Alex Honnold’s free solo climb of Taiwan’s Taipei 101 skyscraper (“two-hour free solo special”).
  • Adam: “He always says—it’s easier than it looks.” (88:57)
• Comparison to previous high-profile live stunts (Evel Knievel, David Blaine).
• Brief on Colin O’Brady’s forthcoming Antarctica crossing/adventure series on Netflix, touching on the culture, criticism, and evolution of modern adventure storytelling.

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Triathlon Heroes & Open Water Feats

[97:01-103:01]

• Recap of Norwegian sweep at Ironman World Championships in Nice, with On-sponsored athletes Gustav Iden, Kristian Blummenfelt, and Casper Stornes.
• Reference to Adam’s reporting on the data-driven approaches of the Norwegian triathlon team.
• Celebration of legendary open-water swimmer Antonio Argüelles’s seventh Catalina Channel crossing, with cameos by Diana Nyad and Hank Wise (Stanford swimmer, Catalina record-holder).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Adam, reflecting on going “fungal” online with a kind story:
  “A good news story, a heartwarming news story could go fungal.” (06:47)

• Rich on family service and sobriety:
  “This is what you do when you’re a sober person. I feel really good about that and…grateful that I could be of service in that way.” (36:45)

• Rich on conscious compassion:
  “Can I practice this when all of my buttons are getting pushed—because she installed them? Can I be non-reactive and do the contrary action, which is just more love?” (51:04)

• Adam, on overcoming past trauma:
  “The confrontation is within yourself and your relationship to the story…” (53:41)

• Rich, on the value of showing up (reunion):
  “Unless you show up, you can’t be surprised…you show up and realize whatever your bullshit story is, it’s unfounded…” (69:13)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Studio upgrades & banter: 02:39–03:28
• Dodger peanut legend story: 03:30–08:26
• Adam's book announcement: 08:40–14:59
• Rich's Tokyo & On experience: 15:10–25:21
• Japan, Craig Mod, and plant-based notes: 25:57–27:52
• Family, dementia, and service: 31:49–55:22
• High school reunion & personal healing: 61:35–74:29
• Pop culture and Netflix adventure events: 86:22–95:34
• Triathlon & open water shoutouts: 97:01–103:01

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Recurring Themes & Tone

• Empathy & Vulnerability: Both hosts share openly about emotional struggles, family legacies, and generational healing, urging listeners to reflect on their own growth.
• Humor & Storytelling: The episode is imbued with laughter, self-deprecation, and lively stories.
• Curiosity & Purpose: Rich and Adam celebrate creativity, cultural boundary-crossing, the redefining of athletic possibility, and the importance of being present for loved ones.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a mix of deep self-reflection, creative celebration, and cultural commentary. At its heart is the lesson: Show up—whether for family, self, adventure, or community. Strive for connection, face the uncomfortable, and keep telling stories that matter.

Transcript

[Rich Roll]

Hey everybody rollon is back and it's coming right up but first there's this persistent myth that creatine is just for bodybuilders and gym bros and i kind of get it the marketing has been terrible for decades but what the science shows is that creatine is actually this fundamental cellular fuel your brain uses it your heart uses it every energy demanding process in your body relies on it and this connects to everything i explore on the show cognitive well being physical performance recovery longevity it's about improving how your cells generate energy at the most fundamental level momentous understands this and their new lemon travel packs make it simple i've got them right here they're all naturally flavored of course perfectly portioned with grab and go convenience but the real differentiator is momentous creatine itself it's pharmaceutical grade not the bulk powder of questionable origin that floods the market theirs from germany and it's called creature so if you have been curious about creatine but just kind of put off by the bro science marketing this is your entry point use code richroll at livemomentous dot com richroll for up to thirty five percent off your first order movement is so much more than just exercise or training or motion even movement is a language it's a way of connecting body mind and environment movement as a way of being a way of being that brings me close to myself closer to other people and to what matters most in life and for me what we wear in that pursuit plays a crucial role and that's what i appreciate about on they don't just make gear they engineer apparel that supports and elevates the practice of movement itself from running shorts with built in support to technical tees that cool you down right where it matters every detail is widely intentional seam placement reflectivity breathability minimalism that works together so the gear disappears and nothing gets in the way this is apparel born from precision and tested by elite athletes but made for anyone committed to the path i've been with on since twenty twenty three and i'm still just so impressed by how they continue to elevate and innovate in the name of purpose not flash head to on dot com richroll to explore gear that supports you every step of the way.

[Adam Skolnick]

It'S nice to see you i can see you.

[Rich Roll]

We'Re doing it roll on is happening here we go i'm a little bleary eyed i just flew in from the east coast last night my energy is a little unstable so it's unclear how this is going to go do you notice anything different about the studio though.

[Adam Skolnick]

I do i can see you perfectly yeah yeah there's no obstruction how is.

[Rich Roll]

This being recorded and put on the internet without a microphone and no lapel.

[Adam Skolnick]

Mics i know i don't really have.

[Rich Roll]

A lapel so that's good look up we have the overhead mics you got an overhead boom situation hopefully people can hear this but there is something beautifully liberating about not having a microphone right in your face i kind of like it yes we'll see how this goes it could go completely off the rails because we're going to forget that we're.

[Adam Skolnick]

Being recorded that'll be even better that'll.

[Rich Roll]

Be better going forward yeah how's it.

[Adam Skolnick]

Going it's going good man it's nice to be here you know i've had this very interesting i didn't tell you this but for the first time i had an instagram post go not viral but fungal without your help fungal fungal.

[Rich Roll]

Meaning it burrowed into the soil underground it reached its tentacles far and wide but in ways that people can't quite.

[Adam Skolnick]

See it the tens of thousands do you ever go to the dodgers do you ever go to the dodger game.

[Rich Roll]

I do not i have been to a dodgers game but not in a.

[Adam Skolnick]

Long time do you remember the guy that tosses peanuts that like used to do behind the back and he's like very famous kinda okay so i was a couple weeks ago i was at the game and i saw him and i was like i was with april and her friend from australia christy and our friend from australia and the three of us were there and i said this guy's a legend you know i grew up going to the baseball like my like that's been part of my life for a long long time and i've seen this kid this guy since i'm a little kid and he was famous his thing was he would take at the time they were double batt bag wrapped paper paper bags and he'd go behind the back he'd do sky hooks he would no look he would go honestly twenty rows away and he'd be hitting you and you just raise your hand he'd hit you then he'd come back around for the money later turns out so i talking to him and he's still doing it he's eighty three years old still out there doing it and i told his story which is that he was a teenager when he got the job and the stadium opened in sixty two and he's been doing it he's only missed one year and that was last year cause he had a stroke and he was ten months in a rehab hospital and nobody knew about it like he was just kind of like buried there and then a dodger fan found out word leaked out cards kind of started trickling in and then like a flood all of a sudden his room's just decked out and it was all come back come back we miss you and that drove him through the rehab and now he still has like a slightly uncooperative thing with his left side he still has to kind of be mindful sometimes but he's literally hauling this big bag of peanuts and he's he's still doing his thing back on the job so i took a photo and just like told his little story and it's been so fun seeing all the people who recognize him and just like posting on the comments it's one of those that like people are just like tagging their friends and just talking about this guy oh we love him get him a bobblehead that kind of thing so his name is roger owens amazing guy he was super cool to talk with me a.

[Rich Roll]

Little bit there eighty three eighty three eighty three eighty three yeah wow eighty.

[Adam Skolnick]

Three and he's still hauling peanuts and apparently he used to do the usc games too football so i've been hearing from people who know him who are friends of mine jessica ritz who had some fun on that comments talking about like the old carnation malts all the different things how it used to be at the stadium but then you see lots of older people who are like inspired by the story just people who you know this is a guy who's touched literally millions of people right like this dodger stadium is one of la's like power spots right we have our little power spots and it's definitely one of them that unites the whole city.

[Rich Roll]

He'S been doing it for sixty years too so imagine how many people have passed through and experienced his thing right.

[Adam Skolnick]

And he's just there to deliver you some fun a smile he's there for.

[Rich Roll]

The vibes and then you put the vibe out and i'm heartened by the fact that like a good news story a heartwarming news story could go fungal.

[Adam Skolnick]

Totally it's completely blown my mind like i've been doing instagram wrong this whole time like when i started to do it it was like i was a lonely planet writer and i oh i'll just give you know it was really instagram it would go up immediately and i thought you know i'm in unusual places and i'll put like unusual photos no caption but now it's like if.

[Rich Roll]

You could find you're a journalist though.

[Adam Skolnick]

Where'S the story right i need to find the roger owens of the world what i like about roger's story more than anything is it can show no matter who you are no matter what you do you can make a huge impact you know and that's what this guy has done amazing life just through.

[Rich Roll]

Doing this thing that brought him joy bringing other people joy and now you have had the joy of experiencing the dopamine hit of the internet and you're a goner i know it's so weird you're gonna become a slave to it gonna be like i need a story.

[Adam Skolnick]

Well what was weird about this one is like it had gone it had gotten its three thousand views of the people in my world that would care a little bit about the dodgers and it was like you see the interior stats and it's like ninety eight percent followers and two percent non followers and then it thought it was done and then all of a sudden it just got this liftoff like the algorithm or.

[Rich Roll]

Somebody re shared it with a larger profile or whatever and then it went.

[Adam Skolnick]

From there and so for the first time i'm diving into the statistics of my following and i realize i am not killing it with gen z i am not killing it with gen z.

[Rich Roll]

Stay away from that all right i want to keep my friend don't become a slave like the rest of us i won't i won't but you have actually some even bigger news i do.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah it's very big that yeah go.

[Rich Roll]

Get it okay i'll get it go get it tell me what it's about.

[Adam Skolnick]

Well.

[Rich Roll]

For those that are just listening you just held up a giant poster with the COVID art for your new book your novel american tiger yeah this.

[Adam Skolnick]

Is my this is my announcement like i haven't announced it at all publicly.

[Rich Roll]

You'Ve been super quiet about this i've.

[Adam Skolnick]

Been quiet it's coming out december second american tiger it's the origins of this go back twenty years but i've been working on it intently since the pot since the pandemic yeah all right you.

[Rich Roll]

Can put it away now and sit.

[Adam Skolnick]

Down all right all right pretty amazing a novel a novel yeah so that's a bold move skull naked i know you know who john branch is the new york times reporter he writes about sports i used to know him we worked together a little bit just like and just were communications a while ago and he's like what are you working on are you working on another book and i said i'm working on a novel actually he goes you're insane that's it you're insane didn't hear from him and he was right i was insane it drove me insane but you know we're getting close i'm so excited to share it i think it's you know you hear this all the time but i do feel like it's my best work i feel ever since i got into writing i've wanted to do fiction and nonfiction all the writers i most admire have done that you know you just had liz gilbert on here she's one of them and so it's something that publishing doesn't really want you to do so it took a while to figure out the right pathway to publication but we found it we're excited and you know what it's been great i'm so happy to be able to announce it here we have a pre order campaign that's just kicking off you can go to americantigerbook dot com comma you can sign up to win one of ten signed copies so we're just getting that all rolling and you can go to the substack adamscholnick dot substack dot com as well get some more info on it and and so we're just getting this whole process rolling a lot of fun stuff lined up and one of the best parts of it is being able to record the audiobook right.

[Rich Roll]

Here it's pretty exciting that an actual audiobook has been recorded in this facility it is exciting and even more exciting that it's yours and our guy jason up there engineered it right he did.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah yeah it's pretty cool so we.

[Rich Roll]

Made this whole booth and everything it was a whole process right to get the the engineering of it correct because it's very different than doing a podcast like anyone who has voiced an audiobook will know it's a very specific kind of way to engineer this with a different kind of software and you need a proper booth that's soundproofed and there's all these standards right before you can get approval to have it on audible and all of these places right so.

[Adam Skolnick]

You have to go to typically the kind of recording the recording studios that were made for musicians it's that kind of level where you have the right door and you have the glass and all that and so you guys put the studio together recently and you didn't have that you weren't graded for that that wasn't something that was on your radar but one of the reasons i wanted to do it here besides just to collaborate with you guys and because it's been so meaningful for me to do that is that the book takes place in this i'd say ecosystem because that's what it is you know it's about a game warden and his daughter and the rumors of a tiger kind of roaming around the suburbs of los angeles and it's based on a true story i reported for the la weekly in two thousand five i won't go into too much detail now about it but the whole idea is it's rooted in southern california it's rooted in this ecosystem the chaparral the mountains the wildlife and so it takes place out here and literally the wildlife crossing that's going in a couple exits down leads to the whole idea of it is to lead wildlife from the santa monica mountains to that very ecosystem that's in this book so it all fits and for it to have come together cause it wasn't easy like you said we had to kind of get the booth to a certain standard and jason was busting his ass to do it and we managed to do it and so that has allowed me to record it in the natural habitat which is exciting and thrilling and the whole thing is cool and reading a fiction book is different than nonfiction like i had to learn how to be a narrator in a very different way cause i had the success with the others but so this has been a complete learning experience and.

[Rich Roll]

Quite wild yeah i'm excited for you man thanks it's a whole that is like such another level to write a novel thanks i can't imagine oh dude.

[Adam Skolnick]

It'S like twenty five twenty six drafts and the thing about writing any books is that you're always in the weeds for a period of time and that period of time could be one year could be five years could be four months it depends on the scope of the project and how you're able to do it but like i wouldn't know anything about that yeah right as you know we've been talking about it but like with a novel the first ten drafts i was convinced i was like what am i doing like i'm not cause what you're doing is you're spending all your literally all my time for years was on this book and i'm like my kid is like growing up like i should be earning money like what am i doing like so the doubt gets kicked up another level but like all these books you get to you know the freedom comes or not the freedom but at least the uplift comes when you realize that what you're writing is pretty good but that takes a long time to get there and for fiction it takes even longer than nonfiction in my opinion well i'm proud.

[Rich Roll]

Of you man thanks and i look forward to getting into that place at some point you're getting there we'll see you're gonna get there awesome man so.

[Adam Skolnick]

Americantigerbook dot com americantigerbook dot com that'll take you right to kind of the book page and then also i'm on substack now i finally joined the substack.

[Rich Roll]

Brigade yeah welcome to modernity thank you.

[Adam Skolnick]

Thank you so yeah it's all just starting a lot of fun stuff coming and roll on book club maybe roll on book club night maybe for the.

[Rich Roll]

Roll on people yeah live audience maybe situation yeah we'll figure it out okay i went to new york city then i went to dc then i came back to la for like two days and then was in tokyo for twelve.

[Adam Skolnick]

Days at the world champs right at.

[Rich Roll]

The track and field world championships then i was in new york city back to dc back to new york and then flew back home last night so i'm a little bedraggled it's been a lot i mean tokyo was dope i'd never been to japan before what an incredible experience i was there to work with on our brand partner the running shoe and apparel company they were making a big presence in tokyo around the world championships of track and field they had an on labs that was similar to the one that they had in paris for the olympics but on just a much more massive scale like right in the heart of shibuya which is the bustling very populated area like when you see photos of tokyo it's probably that area where there's lots of people yeah it's not that far from that big mega crossing and all of that and it was a two story gigantic complex that had all of these experiences for the public to take advantage of over the course of this track and field meet they could try on the light spray it was all the light spray stuff the shoe that they have engineered but then they had like an athlete lounge and they would do panels and then they would have all these cool things at night like sort of urban street culture events with dj's and wow you know run club stuff dance like a dance experience and then they had a woman who was like painting gigantic like japanese characters on walls and like you know it was it was very cool like it was their big.

[Adam Skolnick]

Splash into the japanese i mean i.

[Rich Roll]

Think it was their introduction to the japanese market as a brand not that they didn't have a presence there but they were really putting a big imprimatur upon this country and they opened up a brand new store in ginza this fancy on store and so yeah it was sort of like we're here now and they had sixty eight athletes competing in the track and field meet which is their it's like i don't know if it's double but it's close to double what they had like the last world championship so you know they're just kind of expanding their their scope in elite performance but also in the kind of consumer market with everything that they're doing and so it was just cool to be there as a brand ambassador and do a bunch of stuff with them i got to do this kintsugi experience with one of their athletes bella whitaker there was a video that went up on our instagram did you see that yeah i did see that which was really fun we kind of like had a podcast while we were doing kintsugi potter doing the broken yeah yeah and you know i did a couple things like that i did some man on the street interviews for a video that they used for this town hall that was an internal kind of live stream that they did for their entire team like while i was there and it was fun man i went to finals on two nights the first night that i went i got to see george beamish win the gold medal in the three thousand meter steeplechase that's amazing he's the first on gold medalist at the world championship level he's an on athlete and i was in the on section as all these like people that work for on including olivier bernhardt who's the co founder and when when this guy won the gold medal like he can't he was the guy who in the in the in the heats like he fell and almost got stomped on.

[Adam Skolnick]

It looked like he did get stomped.

[Rich Roll]

On that photo was a little like the way it made it like if you watch the video it's like i think the shoe wasn't quite as close it was sort of it wasn't lined up with his head but that photo made it look like literally the spikes.

[Adam Skolnick]

Were going into his temple well i saw the video first and i'm like did that guy just get stomped on and then i saw the still i'm like he did get stomped on but.

[Rich Roll]

Then he didn't quite get stomped i guess when you're a steeple chaser is that what they call them yeah a steeplechase athlete when you're chasing steeples you're.

[Adam Skolnick]

A steeple chaseman yeah you're used to.

[Rich Roll]

Falling you know i guess you fall a lot i don't know i mean how could you not you're like jumping over these things first of all how do they you know those hurdles like they're all jumping over the same hurdle and it's a it's wider it's not like a thin no the top of it is like this metal thing it's wide and they're like water on the other side but they're in but they're in spikes which are like a slippery maybe they have a different kind of shoe i should know this yeah so it's amazing to me that more of them aren't falling all the time but i guess the point being like they fall so they know how to practice their fall and get right back up but in the heat he gets up but he's obviously way behind now and he runs his way like all the way into second place and almost like won the heat if he had another ten meters he probably would have and.

[Adam Skolnick]

He only needs a second right to.

[Rich Roll]

Get it yeah exactly to advance so by the time he gets to the finals he already has like the crowd is behind him because of this story but with about three hundred meters to go just as a like a layperson watching track and field like i'm like there's no way this guy was gonna wait like he was so far back i'm like oh well you know two hundred meters it was like there's no way you know and then this guy's kick was so insane like he just literally flicked a switch and just passed everyone and like won to victory it was like crazy i'd never seen anything like that that's awesome but the on section obviously goes insane and olivier he was like a kid in a candy store like he's so excited it's their first gold medal and then shortly thereafter they won their second gold medal in the women's one hundred meter hurdles amazing dita this athlete dita who won that and olivier's like it took fifteen years for us to win our first world championship gold medal and like fifteen minutes to win her second one you know.

[Adam Skolnick]

That'S how it works right that's the way it works right good metaphor but.

[Rich Roll]

What was cool was that but he was so he was like a little kid he was so excited and even after the finals were over and we're kind of in the stadium you know in the hallway trying to exit he's like taking photos of the team and he's like jumping up and down and it was a moment like a sweet moment you know in this brand that has grown so much and now has this global presence but still is this newcomer you know they're not nike they're not you know they haven't been around like they had sixty eight athletes there but you know they're still you know trying to you know put their stamp on this and they were able to do that and be able to be there was super cool that is cool and i got to see mondo break his world record in the in the in the pole vault oh really yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And was he is he an on.

[Rich Roll]

Guy too no he's not the swedish guy he kind of looks like timothy chalamet do you remember him from the olympics like everyone loves this guy yes well the great thing about him is that he's so much better than everyone else right but he gets like a bonus payment every time he breaks the world record so he has no incentive to break it by a wide margin so once a year or whatever he'll just it gets to the point where it's like one centimeter higher than it was the year before and he easily clears it so he's just going to keep doing that i guess instead of just he could put it up probably i don't know quite a bit more.

[Adam Skolnick]

It'S interesting i wonder how like it.

[Rich Roll]

Was fun to see that the pole.

[Adam Skolnick]

Vault technology has changed you know like the pole i wonder if it's more bendy if it's like i don't know.

[Rich Roll]

I don't know yeah i don't know anything about that i mean obviously the training is advanced and the apparel and the shoes and the gear i don't know about the pole though what about.

[Adam Skolnick]

This light spray so is the idea that like the light spray is the place you'd go to get a shoe that's like custom right for an event and then or is it like no.

[Rich Roll]

It'S not it's i mean it could be that one day they have the the technology for that but essentially it's just this robot arm that can create an upper for a shoe in three minutes and it adheres to the last the sole without any glues and it's just one ingredient this microfiber and it revolutionizes the supply chain of shoe manufacturing because most running shoes are comprised of you know someone something like you know eighty to one hundred different pieces and those things are shipped from all over the world and require you know human interaction in order to finally assemble them right and this removes all of that and so the ecological like the sort of the the the the carbon footprint is obviously much lower and you can have these robots like all over the world so you don't have to you you remove like the need to like ship massive volumes of of shoes but it's still in its early days like it's not even available for retail yet but they have some of their elite athletes are wearing them in competition so not all of them but plenty of them are so they're you know they're being tested and they're developed in cooperation with the athletes to make sure that they're getting the best product and it's kind of an amazing innovation actually so there's a story behind it and so the on labs and part of my role is to kind of help tell that story the same way that i did in paris the shoe without a footprint the shoe oh that's good that's.

[Adam Skolnick]

Good that's good what's up you can have that one that one's free you.

[Rich Roll]

Can have free do you want a job in marketing in advertising you know.

[Adam Skolnick]

What i'm a novelist i obviously need.

[Rich Roll]

A job yeah that's right that's true and tokyo is just fantastic i said in the intro to another podcast recently i kind of rehashed that experience but we did get a chance to hang out with craig maude right oh my god that's awesome for a day and he took us on a walking tour through a couple different neighborhoods and we had an authentic experience and that was.

[Adam Skolnick]

Pretty cool i mean that's amazing like we i mean you know i love that podcast i want to meet that guy but it would be so amazing just to walk do one walk with him just through any town in japan.

[Rich Roll]

It was fantastic you know cause he knows every little nook and cranny and he has stories about everything and he took us into this like omakase coffee experience that was one of the most high kind of like high level experiences you could imagine and it was just this tiny little place you would walk right by it and not know that was cool we went to see his friend's apartment he's friends with this young kid who is an artist who just graduated from art school or maybe still in art school anyway and he just moved out of his house and had his own apartment so we thought we saw like an authentic young person's apartment in japan which is essentially a tiny room you know but like he was so happy and it was fantastic you.

[Adam Skolnick]

Know that's cool what about the food what about the food for you was i scouting it all for a pot.

[Rich Roll]

Baby there's a lot of vegan places now actually i guess that's pretty new hasn't always been the case you know historically it's pretty difficult to eat plant based there because fish is in everything and fish sauce and stuff like that wasn't that big of a problem we had some great experiences and some misses you know because julie and i were walking around and we're like let's try this place and you know it's like not every place is going to be amazing but it was super fun i loved solves for so many problems that we experience in america just the congeniality of people and the respect and the dignity and the sort of care that everyone takes for each other and also for their occupation whether they're cleaning the public bathrooms or their taxi car you know taxi cab driver whatever like it was very evident like that that is a you know like a cultural thing that we don't have here which was which was super nice yeah i loved it and it was a lot different than i expected in certain ways having been programmed my entire life to believe that like all of tokyo is so crowded you can't move around and you know everyone's smoking all the time and it's not it's it's not like that certainly there are crowded areas but i found it to be incredibly livable and.

[Adam Skolnick]

Rather delightful man i've only spent nights there like at different times because when i used to do the indonesia beat a lot i would go back and forth through japan and there was like a flight you could take lax to bali or jakarta that it would basically japan airlines just made you stay the night and they'd put you up in a narita hotel which is kind of far from the city but you would you could take the bullet train into the city you're there in an hour and you just go have fun and a couple times i spent two nights there just like in tokyo but that's all i've ever done yeah you gotta go back i gotta go back and do a i got friends over there i gotta go back yeah i got like the free divers oh that's right i got the freedivers over there the.

[Rich Roll]

Big freediving community there is they're fabulous we're brought to you today by seed i have hosted so many microbiome experts on the show over the years and the more i learn about this very complex aspect of our physiology the more fascinating it becomes to me but there is one thing that is simple a happy gut is the foundation for a happy body and a happy life and to get there requires care requires intention it requires a daily gut health promoting ritual that for me begins with seeds dso one two in one probiotic and prebiotic formulated with twenty four strains that are clinically studied and proven to survive the digestive journey it's been shown to increase good gut bacteria by four hundred percent but it goes beyond just the gut dso one supports your whole body it's formulated to reduce abdominal bloating and intermittent constipation in as little as two weeks and i can attest to noticing personal improvements in my digestion in my energy levels and overall gut comfort so go to seed dot com richroll and use the code richroll twenty for twenty percent off your month of dso one so i constantly find myself in this situation a situation i suspect many of you can relate to where almost every day it seems i'm being pulled in a thousand directions too much to do but i need to not just show up for it all but show up with my best self with clarity and with purpose and i will lean into anything that will facilitate that in a healthy way which is exactly what nandaka by peak is designed for and why it is my new favorite coffee alternative so what is it it is a nootropic adaptogen blend built for focus and calm energy without the crash no low rent mycelium fillers just one hundred percent fruiting body mushrooms the legit high quality stuff like lion's mane for cognitive support reishi and chaga for your nervous system plus ceremonial grade cacao rich in anandamide the bliss molecule they've added fermented probiotic teas for gut health and cacao butter that delivers nutrients right where they're needed so this isn't about chasing another caffeine high it's really about nourishing your brain at a cellular level with organic plant based ingredients for me the energy is clean the food focus is steady and it really does help me with my creative flow genuinely enjoyable smooth earthy cacao with this subtle spice very tasty and basically a daily ritual i actually look forward to and right now you can get up to twenty percent off for life plus a free starter kit including a rechargeable frother and glass beaker head to peaklife dot com rich roll to try mandaka and feel the shift for yourself so that was great and then i you know i went to new york and my intention was to you.

[Adam Skolnick]

Came back straight to new york right.

[Rich Roll]

I went straight to new york yeah yeah was to really focus on the book that i'm working on right now but that got interrupted by some family stuff right as i've mentioned before on the podcast my mom has dementia right now and we've been trying to figure out how to best take care of her and there have been fits and starts with getting my parents into assisted living that have at the last minute kind of fallen apart or they've backed out of and my dad is sort of living has been living with my mother trying to take care of her on his own and it's just an unmanageable situation because she really needs help that he can't provide and this has been going on for a long time to the point where it's starting to get get dangerous they're in their age and i was in dc before i went to tokyo and got a real taste of what's actually going on and realizing like this is this has gotten dire and needs to be addressed and you know i don't want to impinge upon my dad and his autonomy and make decisions on his behalf about how to live that's for him to decide but but it was clear that he needed some help here and so i went from new york down to dc and have been in dc for several days and the long and short of it is that i showed up to really help solve this problem by getting my mom into a memory care unit in washington so it was a very trying and difficult emotionally draining week that that was tremendously sad and challenging and difficult like for my dad for my mom of course she's in a state where it's not that she doesn't recognize me at all like it takes her a minute but you know she doesn't really remember that i'm married or that she has grandchildren if you remind her she'll kind of clue in and you're not sure whether she is pretending or whether she really knows and because she can't really remember anything from one minute to the next like my dad has been having to like manage this and he can't really leave the house or if he wants to do something with her it just becomes an incredibly unwieldy thing and like a lot of people who suffer from this condition she's prone to angry outbursts and paranoia and thinks that you know everyone's against her and there's so and he's kind of suffering in silence and has been for a long time to the point where you know it's almost like elder abuse honestly and it's dangerous because you know she was starting to wander out of the house and she can't really quite dress herself and it's you know there's a lack of dignity there and also like a level of denial on some part like it's fine it'll be okay and it's like not okay you know so i had to kind of insert myself to move this thing forward and and what ended up happening was that we had to perform a bit of an ocean's eleven type heist to get my mom out of the house and into this place and it was not easy it was extremely extremely difficult and draining and so i'm kind of in the midst of a hangover from that experience and as sad as it was it really was the right thing for her because she needed needed to be looked after in a way that like none of us are equipped to but also i'm choosing to look at it like a gift that i was able to help give to my dad because now he finally is able he still has some vitality left in him and he's still at our house and he can kind of live his life now you know he needs some help but on a day to day basis he can function and and he's been suffering for so long and now he has an opportunity to kind of do what he wants to do without feeling like he's been captured so yeah it was tough and we're at that age where this is life we're taking care of life stuff and i think the lesson really for me is that that yes it's part of being an adult but it's also like this is what you get to do when you're sober and you're clear minded like you show up for the people in your life that need you when they need you to be of service to them and so i'm so grateful that i was able to be able to be there to help my dad do this because i could have easily been in tokyo or it could have happened at a different moment or something bad could have happened or i could have come up with some reason why i couldn't be there you could have avoided it i could have avoided it or circumstances could have been that i couldn't be there or whatever but actually i could and so i was there and i'm really as difficult as it was and as inconvenient and like you know disrupted like this entire experience that i was supposed to be having like this is what you do when you're a sober person and i feel really good about that and very grateful that i could be of service in that way and to help my dad reclaim his life and also be of service to my sister who lives there and is kind of dealing with it on the front lines on the daily so she's the one who's burdened with it while i'm out in los angeles doing what i want to do so it was nice to be able to show up for that they're in.

[Adam Skolnick]

Their eighties right mid eighties yeah my.

[Rich Roll]

Dad is only maybe a year older than the peanuts guy at the dodgers stadium and my mom's a couple years younger and they've been together like over sixty years i mean they've been together since high school must've been so hard.

[Adam Skolnick]

For you to i mean it seems like your dad and your sister are there but they weren't gonna be able to get to cross the finish line with this thing and you came in i mean do you wanna talk about like your relationship with them over time and how that complicates this even more.

[Rich Roll]

Yeah i mean my relationship with my dad is is quite good and this experience has brought us closer together meaning just the experience of him trying to manage my mom over the last couple years so i would say that our relationship is better than it's ever been my relationship with my mother has always been difficult and challenging and just fraught you know she's somebody who was never able to kind of see me for me and i want to respect her privacy in some regard so i don't know how detailed i want to get about it but it's been a painful relationship with her for many years and i've been trying like i've been on this journey to try to find a way to have more compassion and unconditional love for her because i have a lot of resentment and anger about my emotional needs not being met and it's crazy like to be like i'm almost fifty nine years old you know to like be like thinking about these things you know but but i bring it up because i think so much of the dynamic under which i was raised by her continues to impact like my relationships as an adult like in the way that i interact with my wife and my kids and because i've hosted so many experts in psychology and early childhood trauma and addiction on the podcast for so many years i have a hypersensitivity or a hyper awareness around the psychological issues at play and i'm so determined to like heal them so that i don't feel this way about my mom and i can be liberated from patterns that inhibit my ability to experience more intimacy with my wife or to parent my kids in the healthiest way possible right so i think it is important i think part of our job as parents is to interrupt unhealthy generational patterns so that we don't pass them on to our kids i feel like that's a really important part of the job and that's what i've been trying to do but being with her in her demented state where she's reverted into more of a childlike state of mind has allowed me to do that while also at the same time part of the dementia is just her more unfiltered so i get a really clear picture it's like oh oh this is what she's always thought right that's interesting right you weren't a master maybe she never liked me you know it's like this experience i was like trying to help her all day and it was so difficult and she's so combative and doesn't want to be around me like my presence antagonizes her and i remember going to bed that night and i was like my mom doesn't love he's like a grown ass man you know what.

[Adam Skolnick]

I mean but you know it's interesting like if you trigger her and she triggers like i wonder how much of it is like competitive fire like that you have like that got you to the place you know cause like if you look at it just because we've been talking about you know we've been working on this other thing and i'm understanding you a lot more and i'm seeing like the aloneness that that brings when you're not sure if your mother is approved or even likes you you know like that's an aloneness there that is gonna hover and it takes work i mean that's what the sobriety to bring up the sobriety i think it plugs in right there cause that's the beginning of you getting sober is the beginning of you looking inside right and figuring out where the broken bits are and and so i just wonder you think about it like here's someone who's kind of competing with you in some weird way diabolical way which is not healthy and she shouldn't be doing that but like what you know you just think about these generations and this is not to degrade her anyway because it's with compassion like you think of generations of women who didn't have the options to be living and still not a fully equal society i'm not trying to say it is but there's much more opportunity now and so you wonder how much of that played into the misery that people ended up in and then take it out on their family or.

[Rich Roll]

Their loved ones that's an astute observation i would say that the competition aspect that's probably more with my dad i'll see my dad saying things where i'm like oh he's trying to compete with me whereas all i've ever wanted is his approval all these things that i've done in the world are solely for the purpose of him saying good job i love you and never quite getting it but with my mom you should.

[Adam Skolnick]

Have gone to harvard rich yeah i'm.

[Rich Roll]

Constantly reminded of that to this day it's hilarious but with my mom i think that like the armchair psychologist in me if i had to diagnose her i would diagnose her thusly this is a person who grew up in a household where her mom was a depressive shut in this is a person i know almost nothing about like no one in the family talks about her my mom never talks about her my dad barely brings her up but essentially my mother didn't have a mother you know there was something going on in terms of mental health with her mom but this was a person who was checked out right so my mom never learned how to mother because she didn't have a mother to model it for her and i would imagine that must have had a significant impact on her ability to give and receive intimacy right because she just she didn't get it herself to nurture yeah but she had an older brother and a father that i presume she became close with out of necessity i know that she revered both of these people her dad who i'm named after and he's the guy who i talk about in finding ultra that was captain of the university of michigan swim team and nearly made the olympics and was an american record holder in swimming this is like this great crazy story in ways that like my life sort of you know mirrored his anyway he passed away from a heart attack when i think he was fifty six and she was in college and i know that was a traumatic experience for her and then her older brother died in a tragic car accident he was a lawyer he was forty years old in grand rapids and i think he was coming home from a business trip or something like that i know he had a two hundred eighty z a datsun two hundred eighty z and i think it was a collision with a semi like a eighteen wheeler anyway i remember vividly when he died the grief that my mother experienced it was just you know something that i'll never forget and i probably was like i couldn't have been older than maybe seven or something maybe eight or something something like that but i remember her just being inconsolable and like apoplectic from the loss and she never sought or received help so she suffered these two losses she didn't have a mother and so what do you do like she compartmentalized it she pushed it down she put on a happy face and got on with her life but what you resist persists of course and so you know her pain i think over time manifested in fear like this fear that the world is an unsafe place and if you care about people they're gonna abandon you and you're gonna get hurt so be careful who you become connected to because then you're vulnerable and she probably protected herself by not allowing herself to feel too close to anybody while also having this control impulse like wanting to make sure that the world was safe for her children right right and over controlling me you know as a result out of a genuine desire to like protect me right but ultimately ends up like suffocating me and the worst you know and then manifesting the thing she's most afraid of which is that i'm going to leave her which i had to to survive like i moved to california and i had to get away from her at the same time i think there was you know some unhealthy attachment stuff going on like my job as a young person was to meet her emotional needs she was a very fearful person and constantly needed reassurance that she was safe or okay and i had to do certain things in order to make her feel that way and i adapted to that and became that dutiful son who would like do the things that she wanted me to do so that she would feel okay and it wasn't until much later in my life that i realized that was a betrayal of myself and so it's not a surprise that i end up like drinking out of confusion because i just don't you know like i was living somebody else's life essentially and i don't think that she would have accepted like anyone i married because my job was to be her you know i was supposed to be the primary relationship for her right so it's not a shocker that she's not a fan of my wife and you know so it's just been a very difficult adulthood like trying to find a way to have somewhat of a relationship with her and so we've gone through extended periods where we don't talk or she can't really be around my family and it's sad there's a lot of sadness there but i think this is what happens when you have unhealed wounds or you refuse to acknowledge and work through these sorts of things they spill out and they affect your relationships in ways you never intended and of course i'm sure she never would have wanted to be estranged from me or to not have a relationship with her grandkids and all that kind of stuff but that's kind of how it played out and that's why to me it's so important to heal whatever wounding i have have so that i don't end up in that place with my kids you know i have a different relationship with my kids and i'm setting them up for healthy relationships in their own lives so that's you know occupies a lot of my headspace these days and going to dc and just being in her presence like in this unfiltered state where i'm seeing her behave in an unbridled way like the clarity i was like oh my god like i can see it so clearly now like where she's coming from and what she really thinks of me and how that has impacted me like doing the math on that equation which was liberating but also painful while i'm trying to get her into this facility where she doesn't really want to go like this is somebody who won't go to the doctor she can't she's living in such denial like it's in the same way that she denied her grief and her pain she's in denial that there's anything wrong with her she can't hear but she won't go to the ear doctor to get a hearing aid even if you bring it up she gets angry and i know this is something that's normal with people with dementia but i promise you that she would have reacted that way without the dementia this is just the way that she's wired and so the prospect of her being put in a home that's her worst fear and then that's exactly what happened yeah so there's guilt with that and there's guilt that i know that my dad feels but also a conviction like this this had to happen you know like making peace with that the emotional caught like the i'm just exhausted you know for days after this so it's been it's been very difficult so but this is this is adulthood man it is you.

[Adam Skolnick]

Know it's real you know my parents are eighty one and seventy nine and so you kind of you know we're not there obviously but it's you know it's you hear this and you hear these tales of you know that's how these things go is that people you know as you get older it becomes harder and you realize you're at a place where you know it's your job to take care of them and it's not always these decisions are not always clear cut man they're not always clear cut sounds like this one was but.

[Rich Roll]

This was pretty clear wasn't but yeah one of the interesting observations that i made was was that was how much the dynamic mimics alcoholism just without the alcohol so i have this mother who's in denial right and she's behaving in ways that is creating chaos for everyone around her but has no awareness of of the impact of her behavior on other people like that's not important what's important is that her needs are met and there's no conscious awareness at all of just the toll that is being incurred by everyone around her and then my dad who is a very kind of avoidant personality has that disposition he's a wonderful man and i love him to death but he just wants everyone to get along and it's easier to just say it's fine you know and avoid like the hard conversations or confronting reality and so you could say that he's codependent in that behavior as an enabler you know and that's perpetuated this situation going on much longer than it would have otherwise and i'm like wow this is just like this just like an alcoholic relationship like you know the same way as somebody who would be married to somebody who's using drugs right and they're like trying to like make it okay but suffering and the addict's behavior is like causing chaos for everyone around them crazy it's kind of an amazing thing but on the unconditional love tip like i just do this conscious meditation like before i go to see her every time and i'm like just you know it's just unconditional everything is like just your response to everything is just more love you know just more love more love of like this is what the dalai lama is talking about right and it's like can i practice this when all of my buttons are getting pushed because she installed them can i be non reactive and do the contrary action which is just more love for everything and so she could say the most outrageous thing and i'm like i love you mom and i kiss her on the forehead which makes her very uncomfortable you know and that's the only way to liberate yourself from all of this is to transcend it because there's no there's not there's there's no possibility for reconciliation right so it becomes about your relationship with yourself and the dynamic not some understanding that you're going to come to with this person that you have such a challenging relationship with.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah you have to you have to make peace within yourself with the circumstance i mean i had a the only thing i can think of is you know my grandfather abused me and when i was first dealing with all that like when i first kind of started telling people about it and my family like he ended up having a stroke like a week after and then was in a hospital and then was you know it was like and i had the opportunity to go see him but i was like i didn't feel like that was right to confront a sick man in his hospital bed like that.

[Rich Roll]

How old were you when that happened.

[Adam Skolnick]

I probably was like twenty seven twenty eight you know i got some advice from guru singh who was like you know write it all out and tear it like letter by letter and you know have a ritual with it and he's like you don't have to his thing was you don't have to have these gnarly confrontations because the confrontation is within yourself and your relationship to the story and what happened and you know because i got advice from some people you should go have the big confrontation but he was like but that's not i'm kind of more like your dad like that's not really in my nature to confront people like that also it's.

[Rich Roll]

Not gonna get you anywhere no it doesn't stop you're gonna want this person to give you something they can't give.

[Adam Skolnick]

And they're and they're like stroke aside right they're just yeah either way it's never gonna work right like that's how right that's the problem we're all in as a society now is that like we want to get something out of this but you're never going to get what you want out of the confrontation or very rarely so yeah so i did that kind of i developed my own relationship to it which has been good over time but like i mean obviously this is a very different situation i didn't mean to commandeer it but that's just my brain went there to like you have to cause your mom isn't in a capacity to where you can have an honest discussion and try to unpack these things for both of you and for her as she gets older so she can kind of see things more clearly and at least understand you understand that would never happen but even if she was right even if she was in full capacity no no.

[Rich Roll]

Yeah there's no possibility for that being successful so yeah it's about you and the story and your relationship to it yeah which is wild man heavy heavy.

[Adam Skolnick]

Stuff dude you know when you told me about this i was thinking one thing i want to bring up is kind of just not to make light of it but you were saying how nice this place was because my memories really nice these places are usually my.

[Rich Roll]

Dad found this great place like it's expensive you know but it's it's like in terms of like what a facility like this could be like i'm telling you i can't imagine there's a nicer.

[Adam Skolnick]

Version of it in the old days like it doesn't matter how much you spent it smells horrible in there it's like it's really depressing and then the same is true with dorms dorms now are like mtv real world level so like somehow these kinds of weird institutional.

[Rich Roll]

Is that true i don't know anything.

[Adam Skolnick]

About dorms yeah dorms have gotten nicer at colleges because they're trying to recruit so dorms and assisted living facilities are getting they're getting some bling it's not as you know hostels too hostels are like all the places that were like hell holes that you had to kind of go through at some point in your life are becoming like i don't.

[Rich Roll]

Know dialed out dialed out that's got to be a good thing isn't it i'm all for that kind of gentrification are you like bummed that you can't go to indonesia and have what was that the beach that leonardo dicaprio he goes and he's in the hostel yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

Like the other day i was thinking about you were saying these people that work there how amazing it is that they choose to do this with their.

[Rich Roll]

Life these people are incredible the level of patience that they have to have to just be in the presence of these people all day long and manage them god bless these people man and it's kind of amazing watching them because someone will get agitated and they just know how to gently know navigate them and you know change the subject they're like they were telling me they're like it's a lot like improv it's like yes ending people oh it's fine here we'll just go over here yeah that we'll take care of that in a minute you know and then you know the mind resets every you know minute or so or whatever so they forget whatever was agitating them but this it's just this recursive process and just it's so draining and exhausting to be around and these people have elected this to be their job their vocation you know like it takes a certain special kind of person to do that kind of work no doubt so and i'm grateful for these people because i know that they're you know like my mom is in good hands with them so if they're listening thank you thank you thank you folks anyway today's episode is brought to you by roka you know it's funny we don't often think of eyewear as performance gear until it starts to get in the way and if you're like me somebody who has contended with eyesight impairment my entire life it's a very real thing without a real solution for athletes i cannot tell you how many times i've been mid run compared to constantly shoving my glasses back up my nose tripping on roots and rocks because i couldn't see them or my glasses had fogged up or what about out on the bike where the treachery is obviously far more intense well this is why roka has been a godsend for me approaching prescription eyewear from a performance perspective first but not at the cost of fashion i should say helping not only people like me but all kinds of of athletes including tour de france cyclists and ironman champions with everyday frames designed for movement their secret is their proprietary gecko technology patented nose and temple pads that grip even more securely when you sweat no slipping no distractions and they're insanely lightweight most frames weigh less than a pencil super light even with prescription lenses beyond the function the craftsman is next level razor sharp optics durable construction and a design that actually is beautiful and keeps up with you so put them on feel the difference and wear without limits unlock twenty percent off your order with code richroll at roka dot com that's r o dash k dash a dot com we're brought to you today by the wonderful folks at go brewing let me tell you a story a few years ago this guy joe chura rings me up out of the blue and he asked if i'll fly out to illinois and speak at this event that he was hosting called go which ended up being this really incredible weekend oriented around taking inspired action joe and i hit it off but you know that was kind of that and it wasn't until i ran into him a couple years ago at jesse itzler's running man event that i realized that he had taken inspired action himself by creating this new enterprise that was also called go go brewing in fact which from go has grown into what it is today one of the most exciting revolutions in craft brewing one of the many things that makes go brewing extraordinary is that they don't outsource like most companies they handcraft everything from scratch in small batches in fact this commitment to quality has fueled their growth into one of america's fastest growing breweries now in over five thousand thousand locations across twenty states and available online the salty af chalada earned the untapped number one non alcoholic lager in the united states and they're constantly creating bold new flavors almost every month that push the boundaries of what non alcoholic beer can be double ipas mouthwatering sours all with zero added sugars and none of the junk hear that incredible stuff the non alcoholic revolution is here people i am proud to help champion it alongside joe so get on board by getting with go by going to gobrewing dot com where you're going to use the code rich roll for fifteen percent off your first purchase go i gotta tell this.

[Adam Skolnick]

Story we unpacked a lot right there let's you gotta go to dumbo should we go back to dumbo and tell me what's happening in dumbo no i.

[Rich Roll]

Gotta tell you about my fortieth high school reunion that was also in dc right we can't have a four hour podcast here but i'm gonna i gotta tell this so the amazing thing in the context of like universal synchronicities is that when i had to be in dc to like manage this whole thing it just happened to coincide with my fortieth high school reunion like what are the chances of that like i would have ordinarily not like i'm not going out of my like i'm not gonna fly across the country to go to this thing like i'm not really that close with anyone i went to high school with and anybody who read finding ultra knows that i have a challenged relationship with the school that i went to and you know that that period in my life which is another thing in need of healing you know what i mean like i have all this pain and i have this story about it right and here we are it's like hey not for nothing like like i know you're tired from dealing with your mom but now you gotta go over here and do this your itinerary like the gods it's like some kind of yeah like spiritual rehab treatment situation that i'm in and i'm like all right well clearly i have to go to you know i'm gonna have to go to this like i can't like be here and not go like how lame would that be but i was dealing with my mom all day so i didn't i didn't go to the school for like all day festivities or whatever but there was i was on an email chain where there was discussion of like oh on saturday night we're gonna go to this restaurant you know we've reserved a room or whatever so just come here you know between seven and ten so i was like all right i'm gonna go i'm gonna go do this this will be interesting and it was in bethesda so my parents live in georgetown i'm staying in georgetown i have my dad's car so i drove to bethesda which is where i.

[Adam Skolnick]

Grew up which is across town right.

[Rich Roll]

Now yeah it's just up it's like you know it's like a twenty minute drive or whatever bethesda is now like a city though like when i grew up there it was just a suburb but now there's like buildings everywhere and this restaurant was in i think it's called bethesda row like there's like a whole nightlife scene happening and like all these restaurants and bars and i see the restaurant i'm like all right i gotta park i pull into this parking garage and i just made a mental note like okay when i come out of the garage i need to turn right and left and the restaurant's on the corner so i go into the parking garage park come out i make the right i make the left i go into this restaurant it's pretty crowded it's a big place but there's a back room where there's like clearly there's a party going on i was like well that's obviously it i go back there and guy gives me here's two drink tickets and here's you know write your name on this thing i put put my name on my jacket and i go into this room and it's very crowded and i'm alone like i'm by myself and i'm mingling i'm mingling around like walking around like looking looking for a familiar face like seventy percent of the guys are bald but like okay so that's gonna make it a little more difficult but hopefully like you know somebody will recognize me or whatever and i'm doing a loop i don't see anybody i'll do another loop and then it's that awkward thing when you're alone at a party and you don't know anyone and you're trying to like you're like how do i behave so i don't look weird you know go to the bathroom and i'm like i can't why can't like i don't understand like somebody i should be able to see somebody here and i do another loop and i end up facing did i tell you the story no so then i'm facing the wall and there's a class photo on the wall and i look at the class photo and it says walt whitman high school class of two thousand and i'm like i'm at the wrong fucking reunion the wrong year literally there's literally a high school reunion going on this is high school reunion party it's just not the right one i'm at the wrong i stumbled into the wrong reunion party i also didn't notice the fact that like i graduated in nineteen eighty five so i'm fifteen years older than all these people that didn't occur to me like i'm looking at these people they all once you get a certain age it's like everyone looks old so i'm like oh my god like i'm in the wrong this is not the right party maybe there's another room in this restaurant i leave that back room and i'm wandering around the restaurant maybe they're eating at a table i'm looking looking at everyone eating i got onto the there's a patio where people are out there i'm looking there they're not there i'm like what is going on and i think do i have the date right like i checked my email on my phone i was like maybe i had the wrong day no i have the right day let me try one more loop no still don't see anyone and i'm like maybe i'm being punked like maybe like i'm getting bullied again it was a setup up like we're going to get this guy to go to the go to the other high school reunion i'm like what is wrong something is wrong and i couldn't figure it out and then i look around and i and i go oh this is a mexican restaurant and i think the restaurant that i'm supposed to be at is like an oyster bar plate i go i'm in the wrong restaurant i walked.

[Adam Skolnick]

In the wrong restaurant the wrong nice but restaurant there's too many too many.

[Rich Roll]

What does the matter with and i realized when i came out of the parking garage i went out i thought i was going out the front of it the same way i drove in but i went out like the back and so i took the right and the left which was correct but it ended it landed me at a restaurant that's like on the other side like it's like oh my god you're such a dumb fuck what is the matter with you so i go over like so then i go in i'm in the right place and it's just like fifteen guys that i went to high school with and actually you know what it was it was super nice i ended up having some really cool conversations i mean forty years post high school you're kind of past the bullshit everyone was fantastic and it was wonderful to reconnect with these people many of whom i hadn't seen in a very long.

[Adam Skolnick]

Time was there instant recognition like you saw that guy oh that's someone you haven't seen in a while well there.

[Rich Roll]

Was an email chain so i already knew there were a couple guys that i was like i'm not quite and then it kind of locked in i had one embarrassing moment where i mistook somebody for somebody i won't name any names about that like i kind of stepped in it in one situation accidentally but for the most part yeah and because what i do is public like they kind of know what i do and they know more about me than i do about them but it was actually super nice and quite healing like i talked to a couple guys that you know in my mind i had a whole story about who they are and like what they think of me and of course it's all illusion you know so that was interesting and healing in its own right and i'm really glad that i went that's cool i've.

[Adam Skolnick]

Only ever been to my tenth high school reunion and i think you should go you think i should go to my let's see what's coming up it would be it would be my four the next option is for i don't think they do thirty five or anything.

[Rich Roll]

Like like that i don't know maybe depends on i think well i don't.

[Adam Skolnick]

Know you know sam ohana class of.

[Rich Roll]

Eighty nine i mean i will say this yes it's helpful when you're happy in your life and you like what you do for a living and you're feeling fulfilled that's a better way to go into a reunion than i went.

[Adam Skolnick]

To my tent no i don't know.

[Rich Roll]

I don't know how you felt but i'm just saying like for me like i'm like i feel good about my life like i don't you know i imagine a lot of people the prospect of going to reunion like if you're not happy with your life or you feel a like you know maybe you're not living the life that you wish you were or thought you could be like then the idea of showing up at an event like that is challenging.

[Adam Skolnick]

I bet it is i mean my tenth reunion i wasn't necessarily on the track that i wanted to be on i wasn't i didn't hate my life by any means but i was like what i found was it didn't matter like nobody cared because you end up having like these speed you know this is different now there's fifteen people you're gonna have longer conversations but what i found was that was what was refreshing about it was it didn't matter at all what anybody was doing it was just people were happy to see each.

[Rich Roll]

Other right yeah yeah yeah and the conversations that i had with these guys it had nothing to do with like what do you do for a living or whatever it's just like your kids and like you know you guys were like no one cares anymore so it's like the lessons with my mom and memory care are about showing up sobriety service and the lessons with this are like not dissimilar like you show up right you show up and you realize whatever your bullshit story is like i guarantee you it's unfounded for the most part right and you know unless you show up you can't be surprised and you know experience closeness like i just had katie courican here earlier today and we had this amazing conversation for two hours and at the end of it i said something like you know what is your advice or what have you learned over your like forty years of like talking to every amazing person in the world and having this storied career and basically her answer was you know happiness is about your relationships it's about your closeness with the people you care about and the people that are happiest and live the longest obviously like a blues like are the people who really foster and cultivate and care for their friendships and their relationships and i feel like this reunion thing was a way of me beginning the process of not just reconciling my past but also reaching out to people that i have a lot of history with and realizing that there's more connective tissue there and shared experience than you realize and i left just feeling better about myself because i just felt more connected rather than disconnected from this formative experience in my life so the lesson is like show up and don't be avoidant like my dad walk towards the thing that makes you uncomfortable and that's the only way that you can grow but also be disabused of whatever narrative you have in your mind about what it means it's so.

[Adam Skolnick]

Interesting because like if you think about it as kids we're just it's basically all a science experiment like all of life is just this weird science experiment you're like you know we're sending zuma to a certain school we like the school but he doesn't have any choice in the matter like he's just being put into a bag and shaken up with the other ones that have been and that's what happened with you and your classmates it's like you got sent to a place and you had this weird experience and it was all a science experiment and now at the end you come out you're like whoa it was weird to be subjects in that experiment what was that like for you and then you can have this connected like ultimately the stories i think that you're talking about when we get into stories about what our life was like and all the you know all our dramas and our relationships and how people see us all those stories are like these fake separators when in reality like we have almost everything in common with every human being you know we have almost everything in common but let's focus.

[Rich Roll]

On like that one thing that i remember forty years ago right and part.

[Adam Skolnick]

Of it is that we've been subject to this bizarre science experiment called life right and we're like and our reactions to it are probably more similar than different so it's interesting we're mad at.

[Rich Roll]

All these people who just didn't know any better because the truth is the older you get you realize no one knows anything and when you're young you think adults they've got things under control and then you get older and you're like no one really knows what they're.

[Adam Skolnick]

Doing at all pretty much and nothing freaks me out more than someone who thinks they know what's going on right.

[Rich Roll]

Yeah there's a lot of i heard there's a few people like that on the internet have you discovered that on.

[Adam Skolnick]

The internet or like they know what to do this will solve the problem.

[Rich Roll]

Yeah yeah yeah anyway man so yes i encourage you to go to your next high school reunion i don't know what your high school experience was like but you seem like a guy who probably if i had to guess you were a guy who knew how to get along with all the different kinds of groups you weren't really in any one clique but you could maneuver like you could hang with the athletes and then hang out with the potheads because you have a certain like ease about yourself and not necessarily class clown but like a disposition that allowed you to like maybe not be like a super popular kid but like a kid that like like everyone was cool having around.

[Adam Skolnick]

Is that it i feel seen is.

[Rich Roll]

It was that accurate that is accurate really that's pretty good that is maybe i should be a psychologist that is.

[Adam Skolnick]

Accurate that is accurate i don't know how like i definitely wasn't in the popular crowd but i wasn't like yeah i was one of those boundary walkers i've been like that boundary walker type person my whole life but also i.

[Rich Roll]

Went to slide you could show up at any of the parties and it.

[Adam Skolnick]

Was cool yeah yeah i could go to the parties but i also often would rather not but like the the sam ohio was different because it was so big it was like three thousand kids or something like seven hundred kids per class so it wasn't like one of those right out of like you know central casting kind of places where there's the losers and the jocks and all that wasn't like that at all there was a lot of room for anonymity and so there was a lot of us kind of that had little pockets and that kind of crossed over in different places so i think that was one of the healthy things about sam we didn't have like the big bully culture and i'm sure some people had horrible experiences that i wasn't aware of but it was pretty it wasn't you didn't have to get you know you could avoid a lot of conflict if you wanted it was just a big spot but you're right in the sense that i had friends in different groups and yeah you're one hundred percent.

[Rich Roll]

Right all i know about sammo santa monica high school is from stories that guys like charlie sheen and rob lowe and like sean penn like they you know all these guys that became huge actors robert downey junior like they were all classmates at samo like around the.

[Adam Skolnick]

Same time and it was charlie sheenan esteban was rob lowe there too rob.

[Rich Roll]

Lowe i mean rob lowe is the best storyteller amongst them from the whole brat pack era he even does like a one man show where he tours and he just like tells the craziest stories about those years from high school you know into the st elmo's fire you know like when they were like the brat pack and that whole thing he's very good at that like they're really compelling but there's something you know there was something special about sam ojai at that period of time because literally it gave birth to like you know basically a whole generation of hollywood yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

It'S crazy huh cause malibu was there and malibu wasn't you know malibu but.

[Rich Roll]

Malibu wasn't a thing like did you watch the charlie sheen netflix documentary i did yeah no yeah i've only watched the first episode of it i couldn't stop watching it's so interesting that they had all that super eight footage of them being kids running around point doom because point doom now it's like super fancy so point doom for people who don't know is a neighborhood in malibu that is very fancy you know lots of fancy houses well point doom is like that rock it's the promontory yeah so it's like sticks out and there's these beaches there and you know if you live there you get a key and you can go and open this gate and you have access to these beaches where you go down there and it's like crazy who you would see but it's just that's for people that live there it's not open to the public but it had always been a working class neighborhood until i don't know a couple decades ago yeah maybe like thirty years ago or something like that trankus two yeah yeah trancus ii yeah and so martin sheen raises his kids on point doom and it was just you know feral kids running around riding bikes and in the case of charlie sheen and his brother emilio estevan they had this super eight camera and they were just making little movies themselves and they had all this footage in that show but rob lowe's around sean penn's around you know like chris chris penn yes they all grew up in that area and they all went to santa monica high school even though it's way down pch because there was no malibu.

[Adam Skolnick]

High school right right yeah like and that's the same when i was in like malibu high until the nineties maybe it was the mid nineties or maybe it was early nineties i forget but like i went to school with those malibu kids and so we would go out sometimes to parties in point dume and sean penn says that the documentary is one hundred percent true it was school teachers and contractors there were the.

[Rich Roll]

Nice houses there's still a couple of those houses in point dume right but they're like few and far between now because most of those houses get razed and then mansions get built and the.

[Adam Skolnick]

Same was true with the palisades we talked about in the palisades fire there was that same thing so it was a different era because in the old days the money wanted to stay closer to la and beverly hills was kind.

[Rich Roll]

Of who wanted to go up to malibu like there was nothing going on.

[Adam Skolnick]

Up there right right right and so and i think i don't know the reason that martin sheen chose it but i know he's really deeply connected to that like catholic retreat serra retreat oh sir retreat yeah so i don't know.

[Rich Roll]

If that was was he deeply catholic way back then i don't know i.

[Adam Skolnick]

Think i kind of feel like he's been religious or something but i'm speaking out of turn because i don't know but i know that's the kind of place that i know he's been known to go there in recent years and so maybe that was something but yeah so you see the super i always love that like these documentaries that can find that footage like that charlie sheen was making movies with emilio estevez when they were kids and their rivalry that they had and like i said one of the trippiest things for me was like emilio estevez was originally supposed to be the star of platoon and then the funding fell through and then like charlie sheen got it and that must have been like he was the late.

[Rich Roll]

Comer because everything was set up for emilio like breakfast club all of that like he had the early the early ascent and then charlie like market corrected him a little bit it seems like.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah and then jennifer grey got charlotte's.

[Rich Roll]

Story i know that story is crazy.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah but what's also crazy is that.

[Rich Roll]

He'S alive i know that guy's constitution for drugs and alcohol is superhuman it's unbelievable but the interesting thing i liked that he's just owning it and is not afraid to just tell you everything that happened because it is an amazing sort of document to see how this person survived this and an interesting exploration of alcoholism ego insanity hollywood it's an indictment of what happens when you're young and you have an addictive personality and you have power and money i didn't realize that nicolas cage was his main dude his main running man that's weird.

[Adam Skolnick]

That'S weird so you're only the first one what you find in the second one like denise richards and then i forget who is i guess would be his third wife cause he was married really young and then he had denise richards and what you find in the second one and it's worth i don't wanna spoil it but like is that he's like and you don't know what to think because he's obviously like he's an actor and like who knows how much of this is genuine or not but it does come across genuine to me but it takes you through that whole meltdown with the two and a half men so the first one is building up and it's the reminiscence the.

[Rich Roll]

Whole winning and tiger blood all that.

[Adam Skolnick]

And it shows how weird that was but one takeaway for me was this guy's like ex wife still love him and during the meltdown you didn't get the sense that he was anything other than a bully and like you know what i mean i got a real bully energy from him he wasn't like he seemed like he was very demeaning to people but it was obviously he was in the throes of a serious addiction so i'm not trying to place judgment but that's how i felt but then you and you watch this and they're like the and it could be a show but like it seems like he's on good terms with his ex wives and like they're close and he's you know his kids are kind of back at least you know it's hard to say but his son was living with him he's close with one of his daughters she's in it so we don't really know what's real but it makes you think that we didn't fully also know who he really was even when he seemed to be showing us.

[Rich Roll]

You know who knows i mean that's nice to hear in the first episode you're introduced to his best friend from high school the football player guy who's still his best friend i guess that says something but there doesn't seem to be any kind of spiritual awakening it's sort of like here's what happened and it was crazy you know what i mean and i'm still living as as opposed to like what did i learn from this that could make me a better human so to me it rings a little empty and maybe that's why i didn't end up watching the second episode yeah maybe so but it is remarkable that he was able to survive all of that stuff and i also think it's interesting that his brother and his dad decided not to participate and you know we don't know why but i would have to imagine maybe it has something to do with the fact that that by participating in it like anything like it's imagine you're martin sheen who was just terrified when his son was doing this because martin has had his own you know had like the parallels between platoon and like apocalypse now charlie being on set for apocalypse now when his dad was like going through that and had the heart attack and all of that like it's crazy that's pretty wild stuff and it was was like portrayed very cinematically in the show but but anything that is potentially ego aggrandizing you know for this person is going to set them back towards their addiction you know what i mean so like all of the suddenly he's back in the limelight he's got this book he's got this netflix is this is this really like in charlie's mental health interest you know and maybe just by saying we're not going to participate in it is there a way of saying like you know we don't want to be involved in anything that might move him back towards a drink yeah but.

[Adam Skolnick]

There might have been economic necessity involved you know like he spent all his money maybe you know like who knows.

[Rich Roll]

Right but that doesn't mean that his dad and his brother have to like you know kind of you know contribute to this i guess who knows i mean i don't know i don't know these people i don't know one brother yeah he's at the one brother and sean penn is in there a little bit you know i mean that dude.

[Adam Skolnick]

Sweating through it he doesn't seem stoked to be there but he's there yeah.

[Rich Roll]

Speaking of which you haven't seen one.

[Adam Skolnick]

Battle after another no i haven't seen it i read the interview in the david marchese interview in new york times that sean penn did i thought was interesting no i haven't seen it no spoilers please i'm desperate to see it but i haven't you know yeah i.

[Rich Roll]

Won'T spoil it i was in dc and despite me being kind of full time on deck for my family i did find you know a four hour window where i could escape and i went by myself to go see it georgetown in imax it's a remarkable it's a remarkable movie and sean penn's performance is really something i mean it's out there you know it's really out there it is it's masterful filmmaking and i think you know paul thomas anderson sort of asserts himself as one of if not our greatest living filmmaker like it is a remarkable work of art i can't wait to see it and an achievement and you're gonna love it try to see it in imax in la it's all about seeing it in vista vision what's that which you could see at the vista in los feliz but like it's basically the film cut that is made for the specific camera the vistavision camera that paul used to film it which has a certain grain and so film enthusiasts are like you have to see it in vistavision but at the vista theater in los feliz it keeps breaking that's hilarious and so they just end up putting it up in the digital projection or whatever and i think there's only like a couple theaters in america that even are outfitted to screen it in vistavision anyway but imax.

[Adam Skolnick]

Is definitely worth it okay so charlie sheen's on netflix we have a couple other netflix things happening i know we should talk about right which way you.

[Rich Roll]

Want to go first well we can start with the fact that i was also in new york city the past couple weeks and i happened to be in new york during climate week oh okay and i i went to this event for protect our winters which is this nonprofit and doing all kinds of cool stuff i'd heard the founder speak before and they were screening one of alex honnold's movies one of his climbing movies not free solo but there was a little gathering beforehand i'd already seen the movie so i just wanted to go and mingle and socialize so i saw alex and i was catching up with him and this was before the announcement of what we're going to talk about but but i was asking him like aren't you supposed to go and like climb some skyscraper in dubai or something like that and he's like no it's taipei you know i was like yeah we've been working on that for a long time and i was like cause he was saying well he was talking about like i was like how's it being a dad you know like he's being a dad now and also you know he's a celebrity so he gets asked to do talks all the time and you know come to new york for climate week and do all sorts of stuff and you know how does that work with with you being a professional climber and your goals like what are you goals do you still have goals what do those goals look like and just a talk about how it gets harder to prioritize that kind of stuff does he have anything to prove but he still loves it and is there anything that he still wants to accomplish he's forty so he probably has five years he has a window of time where he can like be a baller and then it starts to you know decline a little bit so we were just talking about that and i was like well you aren't you doing some skyscraper thing or whatever he's like yeah he's talking about anyway so there was a a an announcement in the trades about this netflix it's netflix right it's going to do this so.

[Adam Skolnick]

He'S going to scale live show he's.

[Rich Roll]

Going to scale this skyscraper in taipei do you have the details on this.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah one hundred one floor skyscraper one thousand six hundred and sixty seven feet high and i think you asked him about it and you said wow and it's gonna be free solo yeah he's.

[Rich Roll]

Gonna free solo a two hour free solo special and he told yeah and they're gonna live stream basically so it's meant to be this global event like we're gonna be able to watch him do this in real time around the world on netflix that's right that's right which is kind of amazing according to him assuming it's not raining or crazy windy or whatever he's seems to think this is not that big of a.

[Adam Skolnick]

Deal he always says that yeah he's.

[Rich Roll]

Like it's pretty basic it's easier than he looks it's easier than it looks.

[Adam Skolnick]

Well it doesn't look easy it looks.

[Rich Roll]

Insane i know it looks completely insane yeah he's like it's pretty basic this is a pretty basic climb time for training and he was sort of like what i don't really need to train for that like that's not so interesting that's not that big of a thing or whatever i was like okay our frame of reference you know it's all all like you know it's all a matter of perspective but how do you.

[Adam Skolnick]

Train for a building like do you do it in like a climbing gym or do you actually go climb other buildings you know like like like the guy who who did the i forget his name the great frenchman who did the high wire between the twin towers right yeah he was doing like notre dame he did it he had to do it a few times you know what i mean like how do you i don't know yeah it's interesting i mean i'm sure that'll be part of the show but like yeah it's interesting and you know they're getting into expeditions colin o' brady's got an expedition on netflix that's happening right well first of.

[Rich Roll]

All before we move off of the alex thing i mean the only other thing i can remember seeing in recent memory is what's his name the magician didn't he yes david blaine yeah david blaine did a skydiving stunt or he did something crazy that was livestreaming on a streamer or whatever and and so and i remember like it was a big deal like the whole world was sort of watching it cause you didn't know it was gonna happen and this feels a little bit like that yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

This is definitely like that it's like evel knievel does you know like jumps.

[Rich Roll]

The grand canyon right i know it's like this is when we were little.

[Adam Skolnick]

Kids or stuff like this you know yeah but of course that was kind.

[Rich Roll]

Of dig it i remember that evil knievel jumping snake it was snake river.

[Adam Skolnick]

I think that's what it was and he didn't make it and he didn't make it yeah yeah i can't wait to watch this i'm like you know i'm a junkie for the alex honnold stuff i mean he's in climate week probably for the honnold foundation yeah it.

[Rich Roll]

Was a pret protect our winners but it was also on behalf of huntl foundation so yeah he's very involved in.

[Adam Skolnick]

That and protect our winners is jeremy jones great snowboarder and a great elephant.

[Rich Roll]

He was at the event also and yeah there's another netflix this is netflix also right our friend of the pod colin o' brady is gonna be doing this new adventure show where he's gonna go across antarctica again again he loves it supported but it sounds like this one is like longer like he's going.

[Adam Skolnick]

From i don't have any insight into this because the first i heard of it was a day ago or something and we were it was an article.

[Rich Roll]

In deadline right yeah and i was just texting with him cause he was doing some retreat and he was with guru singh right and so he sent me a photo and we were chatting a little bit and he said he was training for his next he was doing this retreat there was like a love retreat he's a love retreat that's what he called it but then he's like i'm training for my next thing and i didn't know what his next thing was but now i do right.

[Adam Skolnick]

Well the only thing i can think of is after he did the antarctica race against lou rudd in twenty eighteen finishing in i think new year's eve was like or whatever was shortly i think it was almost on new year's eve when he finished i have to go back and look at those stories.

[Rich Roll]

But for people that don't know you were covering that for the new york times and it was this multicolor it was a big splashy kind of ongoing story that you were covering yeah i.

[Adam Skolnick]

Covered it periodically i was talking lou and colin while they were out there on their satellite phones i was messaging with them and colin was you know the whole thing colin brought me in and said hey can we you know would you be interested in a story and so kind of he told he tipped me off early but in the aftermath those stories went really large right people liked them but then there was a whole undercurrent within the real serious expedition kind of community that were backing a guy named borg ocelund borg is an amazing norwegian explorer like who wasn't necessarily all of these guys want the attention to what they do but he wasn't like he was like really the kind of nuts and bolts old school explorer and he had used a kite to help him a little bit on the ski but he went from sea to sea what colin and lou did is they went from the edge of the sea ice like a couple miles out on the sea ice to the landmass and what they were crossing was the landmass so as soon as they got to the other sea ice they were done but in reality the sea ice kind of expands to the point where it makes antarctica twice as wide in some places and the ice is fused there so if you look if you flew over it you'd be like well that's part of the land so that was criticism that they both received and colin i think must have felt that i haven't talked to him about it specifically but it must have sunk in because this this is sea to sea to sea to sea sea to.

[Rich Roll]

Sea and it's going to be a series i guess on is it a series i don't know or a documentary but i know that it's being directed by the guy who directed my octopus teacher right and did that win the oscar i think it did i can't remember it should have but either way like high level director you know so this is not a you know not like a low rent project this is like a this is gonna be like a high profile kind of thing but.

[Adam Skolnick]

It is his fourth time back there from my count at least his fourth.

[Rich Roll]

Time in antarctica are you including the drake passage thing i mean no no.

[Adam Skolnick]

No you mean just pulling the pull.

[Rich Roll]

Oh right well the last time he was there he fell into the crevasse.

[Adam Skolnick]

And like almost died and he pulled out right so that was and that was like another type of race there are multiple people going to try to break his record or something and he.

[Rich Roll]

Was i don't remember the cross that.

[Adam Skolnick]

Was twenty twenty three and he was also there for the explorers grand slam the first the kind of thing that put him on the map in this adventure kind of community where he he broke the fkt for the explorer's grand slam which is the seven summits and both poles and so he pulled a polk to the south pole as part.

[Rich Roll]

Of that so it's just interesting that these adventurers are getting netflix shows i know you know it's wild it is.

[Adam Skolnick]

Wild it is cool it's like you know what i've heard about what i read i did a little bit of just baby digging on this netflix thing i guess in the streaming wars everyone kind of suffered some erosion they suffered some subscription erosion and erosion and getting into sports and live events enables them to get some advertising dollars as well as gets people who want to pay for the subscription so it kind of helps retain subscribers and recruit more and then get some advertising dollars and it helps the stock price stay buoyant or something like that it's like a strategic play because they'd already kind of played out what they could do in their.

[Rich Roll]

Original model yes if you're a competing streamer if you're netflix you're in an entirely different situation like netflix is so much bigger and more powerful than any of the other ones i think it's like basically if you added up all of the other streamers netflix would still be bigger like it's so dominant in the space so they don't really need to do that in the way these others do but i think that they also recognize that the future is in live events and so i think this honnold thing like the one thing that the streamers have yet to really conquer is like live sports right like live events and that's the one thing that's keeping people tethered to cable boxes right right because you're not going to be i mean you can like stream sports on but it's not the same you know it's not the same experience so anyway all of that's super interesting well.

[Adam Skolnick]

They'Re doing it i mean amazon prime has football nba is going to be on a couple of the streamers so.

[Rich Roll]

Yeah i think so wasn't there wasn't there some some of those deal i don't know i should you know listen to the town that podcast they'll they'll tell you everything yeah like i don't know they'll tell you i don't i'm not like steeped in that i know there's like a lot of deals going on right now in that space but i'm no expert at that amazing i think we should wrap this up is there anything final you want to say well we should we should congratulate the norwegians they're sweet sweep in nice casper.

[Adam Skolnick]

Gustav and christian casper storns because usually you don't hear about him as much as gustav and christian you know coming into this this was the nice the nice world championship like ironman world championship ironman world championship and nice which was.

[Rich Roll]

Going which happened when i was in tokyo at the world championships and gustav and christian are both on athletes so obviously everyone at on was pretty excited about those guys going two three it's.

[Adam Skolnick]

Amazing well i mean christian coming in was absolutely dominant absolutely dominant he'd won i think three starts in a row two full ironmans and won the half ironman championships he won and gustav has.

[Rich Roll]

Had a harder kind of comeback trail his mother passed away and i think he had an injury or something like that and it was unclear if he was going to be back in form but he just absolutely crushed he crushed.

[Adam Skolnick]

And so they were all kind of together at one point and i guess storns won seven hundred fifty one and.

[Rich Roll]

He had he's their training partner right like they train all three of those guys train together it's nice to see.

[Adam Skolnick]

You know it's not in norway not.

[Rich Roll]

Under the tropical sun somewhere no they're.

[Adam Skolnick]

In they travel a lot they're in spain a lot i think to train and stuff but like the what's interesting is you turned me on to their da like their data driven approach and that became a new york times story.

[Rich Roll]

That i did then you wrote an article about that right and this became.

[Adam Skolnick]

But it's amazing to see see it continue cuz that was a while ago right it was like several years ago.

[Rich Roll]

Years ago christian didn't exactly perform in paris in the way that he wanted to and then he didn't acquit himself well in at at the ironman world championships last year after paris and i did a podcast with him then but and and so there was a big question mark like and and meanwhile like gustav was struggling you know he was dealing with the grief of of his mother passing and so it's like was that just a chapter and now we're onto something else so to see these guys come back and prove that you know they're in it for the long haul and that what they're doing is.

[Adam Skolnick]

Working is pretty cool it's amazing amazing to see it so congrats to those guys congrats also to antonio arguelles he got his seventh catalina crossing and our.

[Rich Roll]

Boy hank wise that's right hank wise was he did so he was he in the boat you were in the boat with i was in the boat.

[Adam Skolnick]

With antonia so just explain for people.

[Rich Roll]

What the catalina crossing is all about.

[Adam Skolnick]

So it's a twenty mile crossing from catalina to the mainland or vice versa it's a channel and so it's one of the ocean seven one of the seven main channel crossings it's also one of the triple crown of open water swimming along with english channel and swimming around manhattan so it's one of the major places and antonio was going for his seventh crossing and we set off and he invited me to be on the boat and as much as i've written about the sport i'd never been on a boat for one of these crossings and so i had to go i wanted to experience it and also on the boat were stephen munatones who who we all know who's like a longtime open water swimmer and open water swim booster he's sort of like the.

[Rich Roll]

Man in charge of storytelling like he sort of lords over open water swimming as the person who champions it and is writing about it and telling stories.

[Adam Skolnick]

And doing it and he won scar one year he's instrumental and helping get in the olympics he invited diana nyad it was the first time diana and.

[Rich Roll]

So she was in the boat with.

[Adam Skolnick]

You she was in the boat they had had dinner like a couple days before and then she came on the boat and she was a blast i.

[Rich Roll]

Mean so you were you were hanging out with diana and aya like on.

[Adam Skolnick]

The boat for the yeah i'd heard so many you know people tell these horrible stories about this person you know that you and even watching the movie you get the sense that it's not really her it's like it's like the movie i enjoyed the movie a lot i'm not criticizing the movie but it was like she seemed much more serious and she's like she was a lot of fun i mean she was a good time i mostly hung out with diana that's cool that was most of.

[Rich Roll]

The time and so hank was on the boat or not sorry so hank.

[Adam Skolnick]

Came with munatonas to say hello to antonio and then and then you know we took a picture i told you.

[Rich Roll]

That you know he's hank was texting me i was in the middle of i just you know i owe him a phone call but anyway go ahead.

[Adam Skolnick]

But he you know you're so hank.

[Rich Roll]

Wise hank wise was my teammate at stanford he's one of the most interesting hilarious and cool unique people you're ever gonna meet yes and like me you know he didn't exactly become a star on the stanford swimming team but he really found his groove in open water swimming later in life and he holds the record for for the catalina crossing did you know that i didn't know that i just looked it up yeah seven hours fifty five minutes in twenty eighteen that's amazing he's the fastest guy to ever cross from catalina to los.

[Adam Skolnick]

Angeles that's incredible i didn't know that.

[Rich Roll]

He still holds it and i think he did a swim shortly after that swim like he went and did it again i don't know what he did or whatever but he's still out there getting after that no he just did.

[Adam Skolnick]

It he swam from terranea resort so from palos verdes to catalina so he.

[Rich Roll]

Went the opposite oh he went the.

[Adam Skolnick]

Opposite and he did it in eight hours and like nine minutes or something at sixty i mean it's like he's.

[Rich Roll]

Probably fifty seven six or something like that yeah he was a couple years younger than me but i've known hank since he was i don't know seventeen.

[Adam Skolnick]

Eighteen years old he's a great follow on instagram if you find him he's.

[Rich Roll]

Hilarious and he's got a little mustache and it's basically cooking videos for the most part flat base yeah he's plant based you know yeah so do the math fastest guy to ever swim the catalina channel plant based and he's fifty you know he's my age and he's a swim coach and he's a swim coach yeah yeah i know i mean.

[Adam Skolnick]

He'S a great guy he's fun to.

[Rich Roll]

Be he is a an amazing amazing.

[Adam Skolnick]

Person yeah yeah yeah so shout out hank and shout out antonio yeah man.

[Rich Roll]

Cool man well i think that's a good place to put it okay we had other stuff on here but you know we'll you know we'll we're not here to exhaust the audience are we adam no you're still here i'm exhausted i'm pretty exhausted.

[Adam Skolnick]

No hey it's good.

[Rich Roll]

To see you man you too man hey maybe we'll do this again sometime.

[Adam Skolnick]

Let'S do it let's do it all.

[Rich Roll]

Right peace out that's it for today thank you for listening i truly hope you enjoyed the conversation to learn more about today's guest including links and resources related to everything discussed today visit the episode page at richroll dot com where you can find the entire podcast archive my books finding ultra voicing change and the plant power way if you'd like to support the podcast the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on apple podcasts on spotify and on youtube and leave a review and or comment and sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is of course awesome and very helpful this show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors who keep this podcast running wild and free to check out all their amazing offers head to richrole dot com sponsors and finally for podcast updates special offers on books and other subjects please subscribe to our newsletter which you can find on on the footer of any page at richroll dot com today's show was produced and engineered by jason cameolo the video edition of the podcast was created by blake curtis and morgan mcrae with assistance from our creative director dan drake content management by shana savoy copywriting by ben prior and of course our theme music was created all the way back in twenty twelve by tyler pyatt trapper pyatta and harry mathis appreciate the love love the support see you back here soon peace plants namaste it.