ROLL ON: Stop Optimizing Your Life & Start Living It, Seeking Depth Over Algorithms, The Future of Podcasting, Artemis II, Media Diet & More

Summary

Podcast Summary

The Rich Roll Podcast: "ROLL ON: Stop Optimizing Your Life & Start Living It, Seeking Depth Over Algorithms, The Future of Podcasting, Artemis II, Media Diet & More"
Host: Rich Roll, Co-Host: Adam Skolnick
Date: April 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging, deeply reflective episode, Rich Roll and Adam Skolnick settle into a relaxed, outdoor setting to discuss the evolving landscape of podcasting, the diminishing allure of endless self-optimization, and their quest for authentic presence amidst modern life’s noise. The conversation weaves in cultural highlights, personal parenting insights, new music and film discoveries, and a thoughtful exploration of the Artemis II mission—tying together themes of connection, purpose, and meaning beyond algorithms or superficial self-improvement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reimagining the Podcast—and Life—Beyond Optimization (01:24–16:06)

• Podcast Evolution & Beginner’s Mind:
  • Rich reflects on nearly 14 years of podcasting, transitioning from a playful, experimental approach to a more formulaic routine—and now, back to experimentation.
  • "I'm having more fun doing it than I have in a long time by trying things and recognizing there are no rules...It's okay to play, it's okay to experiment, try new things." – Rich (02:35)
• Authenticity Over Programming:
  • The hosts observe that podcast audiences increasingly crave genuine connection over curated “special guest” events, paralleling the saturation of content elsewhere.
  • "The days of getting a special guest on your show becoming like an event, those days are over...People want to just feel connected to a guest or to a host to feel like they're experiencing something that is, you know, heart centered and real." – Rich (05:42)
• Questioning Self-Improvement Culture:
  • Both Rich and Adam push back against the endless drive for self-optimization, noting the self-obsession and anxiety it often breeds.
  • "Self obsession is an antagonist to personal growth." – Adam (08:46)
  • "What would it be like if you embrace the fact that you're not broken? We can all improve, but it doesn't have to come from that place of feeling like there's something wrong with you." – Rich (09:23)
• Meaningful Moments vs. Chasing Metrics:
  • Adam shares a “lightning bolt moment” sharing a muffin with his son, Zuma, underscoring the real purpose of life as the collection and appreciation of meaningful experiences.

2. On Parent-Child Dynamics, Music, and Creativity (19:11–52:46)

• Parenting, Life Lessons, and Presence:
  • Rich describes traveling with his children, treasuring their fleeting youth and the rituals that create lasting memories.
• Music Deep Dive:
  • Rich recounts his experiences at SXSW: introducing Tom Sachs, collaborating with Rivian's CEO on a filmed segment, and hosting a Q&A with Ed O’Brien from Radiohead about his journey with mental health and solo work.
    • "In one day, Tom Sachs, RJ, and then Ed O'Brien...Like my favorite band...I was like, how is this my life?" – Rich (25:13)
  • Debate over the most iconic bands (Radiohead vs. Nirvana) and the enduring impact of legendary artists.
  • Shout-outs to new and under-the-radar bands (Geese, Wet Leg, Turnstile, Very Nice Person), the role of local radio, and family musical collaborations (including Rich's wife Julie Pyatt launching her band, Manger).
  • Discussion about modern musicians obscuring their identity for creative or anti-celebrity reasons, echoing trends started by Gorillaz and Daft Punk.
  • "I'm discovering this band...Zuma already...He already dictates the playlist...It's cool stuff right now...He's gonna start hearing stuff we have no idea about, and he's gonna bring it to you. And that's cool." – Adam (50:06)
  • The joy, energy, and generational legacy of musical families.

3. Media Diets, Documentaries, and the Nature of Athletic Obsession (52:46–64:56)

• Streaming Recommendations:
  • "The Dark Wizard" (HBO) — Dean Potter’s story illustrated the razor edge between art, obsession, and risk in climbing and wingsuit base jumping.
    • "There's something about being close to death like that that makes you appreciate life." – Adam (59:41)
  • "Mariah" (Netflix) — Exploring true crime in the cycling community and its reverberating consequences.
  • New film: "Beast" with Dan McPherson, praised for its realistic depiction of MMA.
    • "That's the most realistic portrayal of our sport that I've seen on screen." – Rich (64:12)
  • Reflections on martial arts, flow states, and the philosophical difference between power and humility.

4. Artemis II, Exploration, and the Spiritual Perspective (66:02–80:41)

• Artemis II Mission / Moonshot Reflections:
  • Adam shares his enthusiasm for the Artemis II mission, discussing interesting space terminology (sphere of influence, free return) and the tangible risks astronauts accepted.
    • "They risked their lives. It was a 1 in 20 chance that those heat shields wouldn't work on the way back...so they risked their lives, man." – Adam (70:54)
  • Philosophical debate: Is space exploration an extension of healthy curiosity and global advancement, or just another expression of human dominance and hubris?
    • "I'm into space exploration...but I'm not into just replicating the mistakes that we're making here elsewhere...We're just replicating our mistakes." – Rich (73:56)
  • The “overview effect”—how seeing Earth from space profoundly changes astronauts, and what it means for all of us.
    • "When you have that perspective of the Earth from such a distance, you realize, oh, it's a spaceship. We're all on it together. It's so small. We have more in common than, you know, much more in common than our differences." – Rich (78:16)
  • The value of present-moment awareness and connecting with nature as the most accessible form of “space exploration” for everyday people.
    • "You can find those moments of connectivity. They're available to you here on Earth all the time...There's nothing more empowering than just sitting down and watching the world go by sometimes." – Adam (79:11)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Podcasting and Meaning:
  • "I'm having more fun...and hopefully that's translating to the audience." – Rich (03:40)
• On Authentic Connection:
  • "There's a navel gazing, like self obsession that comes with the self improvement, personal development space. And self obsession is an antagonist to personal growth." – Adam (08:46)
• On Being Present:
  • "The more present you are…it doesn’t mean you’re fully present, like walking around like some light being...but if we can bridge more of those moments...that to me is kind of like blew my mind." – Adam (16:06)
• On Endurance and Life’s Edge:
  • "There's something about being close to death like that that makes you appreciate life." – Adam (59:41)
• On the Artemis Mission’s Philosophical Lessons:
  • "When you have that perspective of the Earth from such a distance, you realize…we're all on it together." – Rich (78:16)
  • "Let's enjoy the beauty of what we have…life isn't…is a sport. It's an active sport...you can find those moments of connectivity." – Adam (79:11)
• On Joy in the Everyday:
  • "Life is to be experienced...Sometimes, you know, that's what I think is most important. And I wish more people would do that." – Adam (80:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:24 – Outdoor recording, nostalgia, and the spirit of experimentation
• 05:42 – The shift from guest-centric to authentic, community-driven podcasting
• 08:46 – Self-improvement, self-obsession, and what it means to grow
• 16:06 – Parenting, "Breakfast Bros," and savoring life’s real moments
• 22:25 – SXSW anecdotes, meeting artists and cultural icons
• 28:33 – The life and impact of Ed O’Brien and the legacy of Radiohead
• 31:16 – Beastie Boys, Malibu connections, and family in music
• 37:47 – Celebrating new music, breaking out of Gen X nostalgia
• 50:06 – The evolution of musical discovery (with kids as guides)
• 52:46 – "The Dark Wizard" and lessons from Dean Potter’s life
• 66:02 – Artemis II mission, astronauts’ courage, and cultural implications
• 73:56 – Societal dominance and humility in the space age
• 78:16 – The "overview effect," perspective, and cherishing our planet
• 80:30 – Final reflections: life as sport and the supremacy of connection

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Final Thoughts

ROLL ON serves as a call to slow down, stop chasing relentless self-improvement, and instead seek depth, wonder, and connection both within ourselves and with the world around us. Rich and Adam model the spirit of play, curiosity, and reflection—whether exploring art, science, family, or the shifting tides of culture. For listeners, this episode is a gentle reminder: collecting moments of beauty, engaging with genuine presence, and sharing authentic conversation are practices as worthy as any optimization hack.

Transcript

[Rich Roll]

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[Adam Skolnick]

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[Rich Roll]

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[Adam Skolnick]

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[Rich Roll]

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[Adam Skolnick]

Welcome to Roll on Al Fresco style.

[Adam]

Oh, nice.

[Adam Skolnick]

How you doing, man?

[Adam]

It's good to see you, man. Welcome to be backyard this much closer. Thank you.

[Adam Skolnick]

I know. Yeah, we did a solo episode recently. Outdoors people seem to enjoy it and so why not do it again? Yeah, man, more is better, right?

[Adam]

Yeah. I might not leave here, by the way, after this I'm going to use your gym and then your sauna and cold plunge facility and then I might sleep there tonight.

[Adam Skolnick]

You're always welcome, but you should check the Airbnb app to make sure it's available. This is a bit nostalgic because for years we recorded the podcast at my house. You can't see it, but right off camera. Over there is a room where we recorded I don't know how many episodes up until Covid and then we transitioned into a studio. But it's kind of nice to be back here. I'm feeling nostalgic. We actually had some technical difficulties right before recording, which is part of the nostalgia, I suppose.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Rich Roll]

And it's nice, dude.

[Adam Skolnick]

I want to just have kind of like a low key casual hang with you.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

Which is part of this reimagination and experimentation and exploration that we're doing with the show these days. As somebody who's been podcasting for coming up on 14 years, we're breathing a little bit of fresh air into this experience, and I'm having more fun doing it than I have in a long time by trying things and recognizing there are no rules. When the podcast began, it was just all fun and adventure and I was a traveling salesman with a case and I would go to people's houses and record in hotel rooms and conference rooms. I wasn't making any money. I never thought that it would be a revenue generating enterprise. And then it became successful and then it became like this whole thing, like this engine, and it got easier and easier to just do it a certain way. And I think I lost touch with the experimentation and the trying of new things.

[Adam]

The beginner's mind.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, the beginner's mind. And now we're in this new phase and it feels much more like play. And I'm enjoying it. Hopefully that's translating to the audience and the solo episode. So it started with the looks Maxing episode that we did. Right.

[Adam]

That was experimental.

[Adam Skolnick]

By the way, how old is Zuma now?

[Adam]

Five, five and a half.

[Adam Skolnick]

So what is, what's his relationship with looks Maxing? Has he signed up for Andrew Tate's Academy?

[Adam]

You know, at his, at his age. At his age, he is still not really self conscious, just a little bit. But like, his age, you can't really, like, if you said something to him about his looks, he would just laugh and have. He'd have a good time with it. Wouldn't even, it wouldn't even faze him.

[Adam Skolnick]

So Clavicular hasn't gotten his claws into Zuma yet.

[Adam]

No, but I worry because he doesn't like boo boos. So when he gets a boo boo, he's very consumed with when will the boo boo go away?

[Adam Skolnick]

Right. Well, this is the beginning of his cosmetic obsession. Maybe Clavicular has his way.

[Adam]

But Clavicular likes boo boos, apparently.

[Adam Skolnick]

Well, is he in jail now? Like, is he shot an alligator and went to prison.

[Adam]

He did that. Fucking bastard.

[Adam Skolnick]

So anyway, that story's only going to end one way.

[Adam]

An alligator is going to get revenge.

[Adam Skolnick]

Well, the guy's like, using meth. And anyway, that's a whole other story. You know what my point being, the experimentation started with this Looks Maxing episode.

[Adam]

Right.

[Adam Skolnick]

And then I recorded these solo episodes and these episodes are getting much more interest and engagement than anything that I've done in recent years.

[Adam]

Interesting.

[Adam Skolnick]

And that feels really good because they're fun and easy. And it just tells me, oh, it's okay to play, it's okay to experiment, try new things. So we're outdoors.

[Adam]

And I think Roll on was the original experimentation.

[Adam Skolnick]

That's true. Which we started in the middle of the pandemic as sort of a parasocial hang.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And a way for me and you together, like, for us together, to like, share our perspectives and take the lens off the guests a little bit. But even Roland started to feel very programmed.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And what I've noticed as the podcasting space has evolved is a growing desire for a more authenticity, a sense of something feeling just real and an emotional connection, like a parasocial relationship. Because it's really crowded out there right now. And I think that the days of getting a special guest on your show becoming like an event, those days are over. And everybody has a million choices out there. And even the notion of two people sitting across from each other at a desk, it's hard to get excited about that format. There's so many shows doing that and so much content out there. And I think people want to just feel connected to a guest or to a host to feel like they're experiencing something that is, you know, heart centered and real and parasocial, I guess, on. On some level, like they're hanging out with their friends.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what people always said about. That's why the. Our core role on people, like just hearing us talk about stuff, you know,

[Adam Skolnick]

the other thing I realized. What?

[Adam]

What's that?

[Adam Skolnick]

So many of the podcast hosts who are in my kind of genre. Okay, not all of them, but I'm saying.

[Adam]

Right.

[Adam Skolnick]

There's a lot of them. These guys are dorks.

[Adam]

Wait, first of all, let's unpack that for a second. What is your podcast genre? I wanted that one, though.

[Adam Skolnick]

The personal development. You know, I think people misconstrue this show. Like, I get positioned as somebody who's in the self optimization like world.

[Adam]

Right.

[Adam Skolnick]

I don't really consider myself that. Maybe that's how it's translating for a subset of the audience, but just kind of the self help. Here's a host who's going to have the author of the next book that's coming out or the expert on this or the expert on that.

[Adam]

Self improvement.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah. Self improvement generally, you know, health. Yes. But also psychological health, spiritual health, and all of that. I don't see myself as a. As in that kind of optimization vein, but there are other people out there who do something similar to what I do.

[Adam]

Right.

[Adam Skolnick]

And I want to do something different. You know, I want to do something different.

[Adam]

I feel it because.

[Adam Skolnick]

So this is kind of part of

[Adam]

that experiment just to kind of piggyback on that. Like, it's just gotten so kind of boring where, like everybody wants to improve you or it's just like it's become uninteresting. Like what used to be interesting. Oh, here's this academic that no one's heard of. It has this interesting kind of mind blowing perspective. Now there's so many of them and everyone wants to improve you. And it's almost like, you know what, why don't we just all relax a little bit? Maybe the improvement we all need is to stop thinking about ourselves for a little while.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, yeah. There's a navel gazing, like self obsession that comes with the self improvement, personal development space. And self obsession is an antagonist to personal growth.

[Adam]

There you go.

[Adam Skolnick]

And so the narcissistic, kind of egocentric aspect of being in this state or in this pressurized situation where you feel like you always have to be improving yourself, I don't think is necessarily healthy. And I plead guilty. Not only am I participating in this, I'm a purveyor of it.

[Adam]

Right.

[Adam Skolnick]

So I've been reflecting on that and

[Adam]

I think, stop guilting us with your 4:00am gym photos.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, I know I'm a contradiction, Adam, but I think at the core of it, like, if you dig down beneath all of the layers, like, what is driving all of this is a fundamental sense of being broken and we always have to be fixing ourselves. What would it be like if you. If you embrace the fact that you're not broken? We can all improve, but it doesn't have to come from that place of feeling like there's something wrong with you necessarily.

[Adam]

I think the real truth is that, like, it's all just a repair job. Like this whole construct of society. You know, I've been. You're going to get into streaming later. I won't bring this up then, but I started to watch rewatch Mad Men again for the fourth time. And you know, April's like, why do you like Don Draper? And why I like Don Draper is that he knows it's all a sham. That's what I like about him. Like, it's all basically a sham. Right. Our personalities, we kind of tape together and the society could. Could shatter. Everything is like hair trigger away from, like going away. And we see that sometimes and feel it sometimes. And I don't say that as a cynic. What, to me, it's like, that's just fact. And so improvement doesn't solve that kind of existential crisis. What solves it is tuning into real moments. And that's my feeling. And so, like, I'm less interested in optimizing, and I've never really been into optimizing or improving. I like the organic nature of connecting. That's, to me, like, the only way to kind of get us through any sort of tumult.

[Adam Skolnick]

You need to get on the creatine.

[Adam]

Wait, am I. Am I paunchy? You feel. You see in the paunch?

[Adam Skolnick]

I don't see. I see nothing but love and beauty.

[Adam]

Thanks, Adam. When I look at you, was that too cynical? Was that too dark for people so early on the podcast?

[Adam Skolnick]

I don't think so. I mean, Don Draper is a, you know, an antihero and somewhat of a dark figure with a nihilistic perspective. So it's interesting that you are connecting with him, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have.

[Adam]

I don't see him as nihilistic. I mean, I understand why people think that, like, there are no rules. That's not what I'm saying. I guess what I'm saying is there is soul beyond all the construct, and we get caught up in the construct and improvement. Proving ourselves can be a very nourishing experience. And I've done it myself, and I. I strive to be better also. But, like, what I strive more for is, like, that authentic feeling of connection and presence. And I think that lost in the nihilism of John Draper is a soul, and he does connect and he does understand the nature of things. Maybe it's just me projecting, and maybe he is written as a nihilist and I should just. But I think that's the perception. But I feel like there is a soul nature that the other people that he works with don't have, that he understands, and that's why he can communicate on a deep level as an advertiser. I don't know why we're talking about this old show, but, like, I guess what I'm saying is that's what is appealing to me more and more now, like, than certain rules for getting better or improving this or that. Because I think what we found is that there are all unintentional consequences of any improvement, you know, and so it doesn't always go the way you want it, and life doesn't go that way. It's not what it's about. And so for me, it's about. I just want to Encourage that connection?

[Adam Skolnick]

Well, there's a, a heart centered, good faith desire to become a better person.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And I think that commitment to yourself and the impact that that has on other people is valorous and worthy of your investment of, of time. But I think for many people, the personal development urge comes from a discomfort with the uncertainty of life. And so when you think about what Phil Stutts has to say, these three truths, like, you know, no matter what you do, there will always be pain, uncertainty, and the need for constant work. And I think in this moment we're experiencing an acute case of uncertainty. Like everything feels much more uncertain. I think things are always uncertain, but because of the way the world is at the moment, it feels particularly uncertain. And so what do you do with that uncertainty? Uncertainty is uncomfortable. What can I control? Well, I can control my body, maybe I can control my mind, maybe I can control my emotions. And that gives you a sense of grounding. Right. And so, but that's sort of an unhealthy way to approach personal development. Like, oh, if I can just optimize my morning routine or if I dial in my nutrition, then I can absolve myself of all of these uncertainties that unconsciously are making me deeply uncomfortable about life at the moment.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think you said what I'm trying to say, which is the uncertainty of life drives, drives. Like what is improvement? I guess is the question, right, Is the improvement? I agree, I go on noom once a year to trim down. I have goals, personal goals, fitness goals and things like that. But I think I'm not sure that improves me. What I know improves me is meditating. What I know improves me is getting in the ocean. What I know improves me is connecting and being more diffuse. So it's like to me, this is just my opinion. And for me, I'm not suggesting everyone should feel this way, but for me, the less I think of my own bullshit, the better off I am. The more diffused I am. The more I am. I am the sky and the trees and the wind and the ocean, the more I feel alive inside. And that to me is self improvement. I mean to me. So that I guess that's what I'm trying to say. And like the more we, we go away from self identifying, probably the better. At least that's my personal opinion.

[Adam Skolnick]

That's not as sexy as peptides.

[Adam]

No, you can't take a peptide for that. But you can microdose.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yes, you can actually. You just have to change the languaging around it. You Know to, to appeal to a certain cohort, right? If you, if you switch it from being present or being service minded into this is your, you know, this is your mindset optimization protocol, then. And I don't know what the wordage would be, but you can drape it in a certain way to make it sound like it is a Peptide.

[Adam]

You know what? I had a nice life peptide the other day. So we do Zuma and I do Breakfast Bros on the weekends. It's just, just the two of us, we go out, but sometimes other people join us and you don't have to be a dude to be a bro. So just so you know. But at Breakfast Bros, it was just the two of us and we were sharing a blueberry muffin, waiting for our, our plate of food to come, and I just got struck with one of those lightning bolt moments. We all have them where like, you realize actually this is the only thing that matters. Like, everything else I'm obsessed with in my life makes no difference at all. These moments, this moment here, I'm going to be thinking about this moment. I'm going to be. I don't think I'll ever forget a moment like that. And it's like. And to like have that moment where you're like, whoa, that's all really it is, is collecting these amazing, valuable moments for our lives because they pass and then they're gone. And then you're back into the obsession swamp. And then, then boom, lightning bolt. To me, like, the more present you are, it doesn't mean you're fully present. Like walking around like some light being. That's crazy. Like, nobody's like that. Maybe, maybe a few people. I mean, even Jesus probably had his shit list, you know what I mean? Like, people that pissed him off. But like, if we can bridge more of those moments, be alive more often and collect more of those moments, like that to me is kind of like blew my mind. And so it just got, you know, I don't know what it is. And I'm in this era where, like, what is important to me is that and this to me, what you're doing, what we're doing here is, is kind of that, you know, like, what's, what's the distillation of the podcast? It always was conversation. It always was just sitting down and, and just talking and figuring out what's important to us in that moment. It's always been that way.

[Adam Skolnick]

Look at you. You're ascending, Adam. You know that's a look smacking term, right? Ascending, I guess. But what you're ascending is Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

[Adam]

Is that what's happening?

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Okay. And I have not microdosed before this podcast. Don't worry, folks.

[Adam Skolnick]

Microdosing on love.

[Adam]

On love and presence. I'm macro dosing on love right now.

[Adam Skolnick]

I love that. I think that's absolutely correct. And you know, any parent can testify.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

To that.

[Adam]

I mean, you still have them. You're going on college.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah. I'm taking our, our youngest to the east coast tomorrow to look at some colleges. That's trips, the options. Yeah. It's like this is, this is like the joy and the gift, you know, like you get to do these cool things.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Rich Roll]

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[Adam Skolnick]

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[Rich Roll]

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[Adam Skolnick]

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[Rich Roll]

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[Adam Skolnick]

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[Rich Roll]

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[Adam Skolnick]

One thing that I got to do in the context of being grateful to have certain experiences, I haven't been able to share this because we haven't done this in a while, but I was at south by Southwest last month.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And just had like a peak experience. I know south by Southwest has been around for a long time. Right. And there's, there's kind of grousing like, oh, it's not as cool as it used to be. And they leveled the convention center. So the event was more diffused across Austin this year than it's typically, like, more centralized around this convention center. And people were complaining about that. But convention centers aren't exactly inspiring places for, you know, idea exchange or like cultural artistic events. And so I actually thought it was cooler.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

Because that meant all the events were in different types of, you know, they were domiciled in all different kinds of buildings. It made it more interesting. Didn't seem to put a damper on the experience at all. Like, I had such an amazing time. But I had this moment where in one day I went and introduced Tom Sachs onto the main stage and got to say a few words and shower him in love and bring him up on the stage. Tom Sachs being a guest on the podcast, this New York City sculptor and kind of icon in the art world.

[Adam]

Awesome guy.

[Adam Skolnick]

And he was so happy that I was there. He gave me a hug and he's like, I can't believe it was like, are you kidding? Like, this is so cool. I can't believe you asked me to do this. Like, this is amazing. And then I left there and I went over to the Rivian House and got to spend like two hours with RJ scaring the founder and CEO. And we got in a new R2 and drove around and it was all mounted with cameras and we recorded kind of a comedian's having Coffee in Cars or whatever. That Seinfeld thing is like a version of that.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And that was so fun.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

I had such a great time. He's such a nice person. And it was exciting to help tell the story of the release of the R2 vehicle for them, which is a great story.

[Adam]

Did you guys do any carpool karaoke?

[Adam Skolnick]

We didn't sing. Nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear that.

[Adam]

No.

[Adam Skolnick]

That video hasn't come out yet. I don't know what's going on with that. But that.

[Adam]

That.

[Adam Skolnick]

I'm sure that will come out at some point soon.

[Adam]

Very cool.

[Adam Skolnick]

And then after that, I left and went to a party at this bar in the late afternoon with Tyler, my stepson and producer, to. And it was a party put on by a magazine slash production company called Monster Children, which is an Australian publication. It's sort of a surf skate, punk rock sort of sort of enterprise. And I went there to meet Ed o' Brien from Radiohead and Ed's son, who I'd met the night before, to just get to know him, because later that week I was going to be doing a Q and A with him. Amazing. On the precipice of him releasing his second solo album called Blue Morpho. And this documentary that he made to accompany that record, which is all about this journey that he's been on with mental health. So in one day, Tom Sachs, rj, and then Ed o', Brien, like, you know, of Radiohead, like my favorite band, you know, it's just. I was like, how is this my life?

[Adam]

Right.

[Adam Skolnick]

But I get to have this. These kinds of experiences and such a diversity of experiences, like a sculptor, you know, and like this guy who is reimagining, you know, automotive transportation. And then like this musician in the most iconic band of our lifetime.

[Adam]

Right, right.

[Adam Skolnick]

It was just so cool. I just couldn't believe it was my life. And then I got to do.

[Adam]

But it speaks to south by Southwest, what you're saying.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah. I was like, I couldn't imagine having a better experience, you know?

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And then I got to host this conversation with Ed in a church, like, two days later, after screening, his documentary was screened. And then it was basically his cathedral. And we got to have this conversation. And they adorned the entire cathedral with plants. And it was really about his mental health and his relationship to his creativity and just magical you know, wow. It was really. It was such a cool experience.

[Adam]

That is a cool experience.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah.

[Adam]

I mean, like. Like I said, it just speaks to south by Southwest. Still pulling in very interesting, creative, influential people. Right?

[Adam Skolnick]

Still 100%. It feels more relevant. Maybe this is just through my own personal, biased experience or lens, but it does feel more culturally relevant than it has in the past, at least with respect to film. For example, like the Sundance Film Festival, that was always, like, the big thing. And I don't know if that feels like it's maybe on the wane a little bit, and the film side of south by Southwest feels definitely more important than it has in the past.

[Adam]

Is that right?

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, just.

[Adam]

I don't know.

[Adam Skolnick]

It was cool. Like, and Austin's great. You're just in this place where you're riding bikes around, everything's five minutes away, and there's just so much going on, you know, like, you can't even begin to tap into, you know, 2% of what's happening during that festival because there's so much going on.

[Adam]

I mean, you were on that stage with Ed. Like, when you do those bigger events, those bigger venues, do you get nervous?

[Adam Skolnick]

I always get nervous.

[Adam]

How do you calm yourself down?

[Adam Skolnick]

You know, deep breaths, you know, it's.

[Rich Roll]

It's sort.

[Adam Skolnick]

But it's. It's not a bad nerve. Bad, bad nerves. It's. It's excitement because I want it to go well, right. I want to make sure that I'm delivering for the audience and that I'm serving the person I'm speaking to and respecting them by being prepared and all that kind of stuff.

[Adam]

Is he touring the record around?

[Adam Skolnick]

So the album comes out in May, I think, so it's not coming out yet, but that conversation coincided with the release of a Rolling Stone article on Edge that announced also that Radiohead is going to be touring again.

[Adam]

Yeah, pretty cool. And you were saying to me, like, that people don't realize that Ed is foundational to the sound itself. Like, he, like, kind of like John Fruscianti. Without him, that Chili Peppers wouldn't have become what they became. Like. Like the. Like, all their best stuff came after that.

[Adam Skolnick]

Like, when you listen to his solo album, you really understand his contribution to Radiohead. Like, he's the guy who's creating the entire kind of like, sonic vibe of the.

[Adam]

Of the.

[Adam Skolnick]

Of the band's sound. Like, he's. He's the sound designer behind the scenes, and he's somebody who has always been comfortable, kind of receded into the background. And if you Watch concert footage or, or see performances of them. You know, he'll be like leaning down like turning knobs and like, you know, playing with wires and stuff like that, but less comfortable being forward facing. And this second solo album is the first time he's actually attached his name to his album. Like his first solo album was just eob. Like, he didn't even put his whole name to it. So he's sort of coming out and standing on his own two feet and like owning his own, his talent and his relationship to music. And it's kind of beautiful to watch because in Radiohead, and he said this many times, like, his job is to like serve the band and to like support Tom York's you know, beautiful lyricism and that extraordinary voice. And it's scary to step outside of that and say, well, this is me, you know, outside of Radiohead.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And I don't think any of us could imagine, like, can you imagine being in a band that is that huge? Huge. But because he is sort of somebody who is always been more in the background, he can still enjoy anonymity. Like we were walking around south by Southwest and yes, some people recognize him, but a lot of people don't. And I'm like, that dude's in Radiohead. You know, it's crazy.

[Adam]

You don't even know. Yeah, right. Well, especially in this era where we all have different famous people anyway. Like, nobody has the same famous people. But I will take what. Pick one bone with you in saying Radiohead's the most iconic band of our lifetime. I disagree.

[Adam Skolnick]

Well, you're wearing a Nirvana T shirt.

[Adam]

Yeah. I mean, come on, is it really a debate? Is there really a debate? I mean, not to me. Like to me, I think the greatest rock star since this, you know, in the modern, in the modern day, since. Since the 60s, 70s.

[Adam Skolnick]

It depends upon your metrics.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

Because it was such a short lived band.

[Adam]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Adam Skolnick]

You know, and. And Radiohead has this greater canon of work and they're still going, you know, they're still doing stuff.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah. No, you.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, but if you're.

[Adam]

I love radio.

[Adam Skolnick]

If you're our age, I mean, it's

[Adam]

like, I love radio.

[Adam Skolnick]

It's like it's. You're wearing an iconic like Gen X T shirt.

[Adam]

Right.

[Adam Skolnick]

Like you just. You're repping Gen X. And I'm a proud member of Gen X. I'm down with Nirvana.

[Adam]

I know you hardcore.

[Adam Skolnick]

And similarly, I'm wearing a Mike D t shirt. Mike D5D. You are. And the reason I'm wearing this. And this relates to music. I guess we can kind of segue.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

Is Mike D from the Beastie Boys, Proud citizen of Malibu. Sort of an icon in Malibu.

[Adam]

I never even knew he lived here.

[Adam Skolnick]

Oh, you didn't?

[Adam]

I don't know anything, dude.

[Rich Roll]

He.

[Adam Skolnick]

He's the man about town.

[Adam]

Is he really?

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah. All right, so surfer lifestyle icon. Like, he moved to Malibu, and he's really all about, like, healthy lifestyle.

[Adam]

When did he move here? Not long ago.

[Rich Roll]

Oh, forever ago.

[Adam]

Oh, okay.

[Rich Roll]

Oh, forever.

[Adam Skolnick]

He's lived here forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But hasn't put out new music in a very long time. Really? And he has an album coming out soon, Mike D, 5D. And he did a live performance in Malibu last Thursday.

[Adam]

Where? At Trankus. At that point?

[Adam Skolnick]

No, on pch. There's a surf shop called Brothers Marshall.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

You know where the General Hardware Store is, Like, right by Las Flores?

[Adam]

Yes.

[Adam Skolnick]

They took over that whole parking lot. And he performed kind of like an unpublicized. If you live in Malibu, you know, kind of thing. Like, all of Point Dune showed up for this. There's probably, like, 300 people.

[Adam]

Did he live Point Doom?

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, it was in Point Dune, but

[Adam]

it was all the way over there.

[Adam Skolnick]

But it was down at, like, Brothers Marshal was sort of behind it. And the city of Malibu, like, you know, permitted this whole thing to happen. And it was super cool. Like, it was a community event. Like, all of Malibu was there. Rick Rubin was there. You know, it was like a whole thing, but it was super cool.

[Adam]

But Rick Rubin didn't Rick Rubin do Check youk Head? And I think you're right.

[Adam Skolnick]

We might have to check the Internet for which records he produced. Was it Check youk Head?

[Adam]

The second and third, The Paul's Boutique, I think.

[Adam Skolnick]

Did he do Pulse Boutique?

[Adam]

Did he not?

[Adam Skolnick]

I'm not sure about Check the Internet. Somebody can look at it. Logan can look and double check. Yeah, Rick Rubin was there. And the opening act was a band called Very Nice Person.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

A very nice person. Look this up, too. Very nice People. Very Nice Person, which is Mike D's son's band.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

Skyler and Davis. All right? And it's a cool band. They performed at south by Southwest.

[Adam]

Right on.

[Adam Skolnick]

They're young kids, but they're kind of coming up. And then they played with Mike D also, which was really cool, playing with his kids. And just to see Mike D. Like,

[Adam]

it's like LeBron and Bronnie, baby.

[Adam Skolnick]

Mike D is a very quiet, kind of introverted person.

[Adam]

He's a Buddhist, Right? He's the Buddhist. Wasn't he like a. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

He did a record.

[Rich Roll]

He did a kirtan record many years

[Adam Skolnick]

ago with Bhagavan Das, who's the guy who married Julia and I. I mean, so.

[Adam]

So, yeah. With Bhagavan Gas or Krishna Das?

[Adam Skolnick]

With Bhagavan Das. With Bhagavan Das.

[Rich Roll]

But Mike D. I don't know him

[Adam Skolnick]

well, but I've met him a bunch of times. He's a very, you know, he's a very quiet, like, introverted person.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

But then you see him on stage doing his thing, and you're like, this guy is a natural born performer.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

You know, and he's up there and he's, like, doing the thing that he was born to do. And everyone was so happy to see him do it.

[Adam]

That's awesome.

[Adam Skolnick]

And he's got these new songs, and I don't know, it was like. It was super cool. So I'm rocking the merch.

[Adam]

That's awesome.

[Adam Skolnick]

From that experience.

[Adam]

Mike D. You know, when I was a million years ago, when I was going door to. Door to people's houses to get them to care about the ancient forests and try to save the. The ancient forest, I was. Laurel Canyon was, like, prime territory because liberals and they had money. And I went up there and I knocked on the door, and I'm like, right out of college, and there's a beautiful woman sitting on, like, in the kitchen. You can see all the way through the house, and there's two women, and they're looking at them like, hey. Because I'm like, you know, hey, come on, I gotta sign my petition. Give money. And it turned out it was Ione Sky. And then all of a sudden, Adam Horovitz comes out and sees me there, and there's like, a production truck's out front. It's, like, this whole weird thing going on. And I'm just trying to get in there and get. And he comes and he takes me. He moves me away. Like, he puts his hand on my hip and he moves me out of, like, view of his home. And he's like, what's going on here? And I'm like, oh, we're just doing this thing, man. And he gave a hundred bucks. He said, get out of here. He gives me a hundred bucks, and he goes away. And then as I'm coming back down later, doing all the territory, one of the production guys comes up and says, hey, man, you know, we're doing a party here tonight. It's gonna be kind of a music video party thing. It's Friday. Sky's record or whatever. You're welcome to come by, bring some friends, come over and come to the party. But I was so afraid of Adam that I didn't want to go.

[Rich Roll]

Dude, how could you not go?

[Adam]

I don't know, man. I don't know why you didn't have

[Adam Skolnick]

a friend to like.

[Adam]

A friend of mine in the group was like, dude, we got to go. You have to take me there. I can't go with that. I'm like, you go. Just tell him it was you. You could have gone.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, you blew that one.

[Adam]

I blew it. Yeah, I blew it.

[Adam Skolnick]

What is your relationship to music these days?

[Adam]

My Spotify Age is 110. Is that good? No. I listen to. I'll tell you what I listen to, I listen to on the weekends. Alma del Barrio, that's KXLU 89.9. It's a college radio station from Loyola Marymount here in town. And on the weekends they play old salsa and cumbia, all the old Latin music. So it's. It's a. It's been running for 50 plus years. It's the best Latin music show in the world. If you like Bad Bunny, this is the you should be listening to. It's unbelievable. And so if you're not familiar with it, but you like the beats, it's it. This is the place to go. So it's 89.9 all day long. So I do that. And then I do Henry Rollins show every week. He's kcrw. And you can get both. These can stream anywhere in the world. And so I do that. And KJRW is like a pod. You can listen to it anytime. Alma del Barrio. You have to be streaming while it's going on. And then otherwise it's kind of like Spotify. And whatever I hear from these other places, I save on Shazam. I Shazam a lot of stuff. The only new band I know, we talked about this before. The only new bands. New bands is where I'm kind of like a little lost sometimes. Henry Rollins will put some bands on. Great Australian band called TV Colors. That's new that I. That I'm into. Geese is really cool. I got that from, I think from Tiny Desk and then Wet Leg. I like Wet Leg. But like my new stuff is like, occasionally new stuff gets in there. But I'm a lot of times listening to old music. Old jazz, old salsa, old rock and roll.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, I'm obsessed with geese.

[Adam]

I love geese.

[Adam Skolnick]

And Cameron Winter's Burgeoning solo career.

[Adam]

Unbelievable.

[Adam Skolnick]

That guy is off the charts, talented. I can't stop listening to him. I know he's been sort of likened to his generation's Bob Dylan.

[Adam]

Is that right?

[Adam Skolnick]

Time will tell. But, you know, he's so young, and the fact that he's playing solo concerts at Carnegie hall and then touring with the hottest rock band, you know, right now, it's pretty cool to see what he's doing.

[Adam]

Yeah, I didn't realize that he'd. He was soloing at.

[Adam Skolnick]

At Carnegie hall and, like, Paul Thomas Anderson is. Was. There's, like, videos of Paul Thomas Anderson filming him on stage when he was at Carnegie Hall.

[Adam]

Is that right?

[Adam Skolnick]

Like, this guy is like.

[Adam]

And who is he touring with?

[Adam Skolnick]

Cameron Winter. Yeah, he's the lead singer in Geese.

[Adam]

No, I know, but who. Who are they touring with right now?

[Adam Skolnick]

Oh, I don't know. I don't know. You mean, who's their opening at? I mean, they just played Coachella the other day. Coachella?

[Adam]

Biggest band. You said the biggest band.

[Adam Skolnick]

They're like. Well, they're not the biggest band in the world, but they're the band that's getting the most energy right now in terms of, like, new bands that are coming up. They're not that new. They've been around for a while. To me, they're super young.

[Adam]

I know. To me, they sound a lot like the Strokes, to be honest with you. Like, they remind me of.

[Adam Skolnick]

They're really iterating on. On that. Like, they're doing a lot of really interesting new stuff. Okay. And it's just cool to see.

[Adam]

Yeah, it is cool.

[Adam Skolnick]

Because there was a period of time where I thought, like, is rock is rock over? Like, are we done with it?

[Adam]

That's right.

[Adam Skolnick]

And then, you know, sure enough, like, a band like Geese comes along and you realize, oh, there's more to say here, you know? Yeah.

[Adam]

Cause edm, well, that's why I say, like, Bad Bunny edm, like, all this, it all comes from musicianship. And you can tell with Cameron Winter, you can tell with Yeast. The musicianship is just top notch. And so, like, to me, like, it all starts there. So that's why I like the old stuff, because that's when musicianship really mattered more. And so the more we get, I think the more things advance technologically. I used to really like EDM when it was, like, more underground and stuff, and now I don't really listen to it ever. And so maybe I'm just this guy that doesn't like things once they get popular. It's very possible.

[Adam Skolnick]

That's.

[Adam]

That's true. I am. I am that.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah.

[Adam]

But I like the grit. I like it to come from the earth. You know what I mean? Like, I like it. I mean, rock and roll. What's cool about it is it's a mix of the two. Like you're saying with Radiohead kind of creating that mood with electronic enhancement.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Rich Roll]

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[Adam Skolnick]

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[Rich Roll]

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[Adam Skolnick]

Go Brewing Beer Club.

[Rich Roll]

This episode is sponsored by Rivian. For me, historically, a car has always just been a way to get around. But I have to say I am just in love with the R1s Rivian loaned me because it's this incredible all electric vehicle with insane tech that can can take you just about anywhere. But mostly because it's so much more than a vehicle. It's like this passport for adventure. Which got me thinking about my favorite road trips I've done many over the years. And the best ones are never about the destination. They're about adventure, they're about possibility. Which is basically the Rivian mission. There's storage everywhere, front trunk gear, tunnels for wet or sandy stuff, room for boards, bikes, packs, whatever your version of adventure looks like. You can literally plug things in and power your world. Coffee, camp gear, even a full travel kitchen. You can even get a Rooftop tent for your R1s. And yet on the road, it's refined and quiet. But when the pavement ends, you switch into off road and just keep going. The R1S SUV has three rows, seat seven, folds down into a perfect sleep setup. The R1T is a truck that can tow, it can haul, and still feel beautifully designed. Most vehicles make you choose between rugged and refined. Rivian gives you both, so you can adventure without compromise.

[Adam Skolnick]

At Coachella right now, Radiohead has this underground bunker.

[Adam]

Really?

[Adam Skolnick]

You've seen this?

[Adam]

No.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah. And it's like going down into. I didn't see this personally. I've just watched videos online. You're going into some kind of fallout shelter underground. Did you see Tenet, the movie Tenant?

[Adam]

Yes.

[Adam Skolnick]

So, you know at the end, when they're kind of. They're doing the reverse pincher movement or whatever, and they have to go underground to the place to get the whatever? Yeah, it's kind of like that. You go in this tunnel and you go underground. And it is this massive art installation, which I think is really cool, this merging of music and art, because there's so much interesting art associate, like, iconography associated with Radiohead. And at the same time, we have gorillas. Speaking of, like, sort semi edm, right. That is having this kind of retrospective moment right now. They were on Saturday Night Live, they had this installation in downtown Los Angeles in the arts district called House of Kong. Did you know about this?

[Adam]

No, I didn't know about this.

[Adam Skolnick]

Similarly, this was like a temporary museum piece where you would go in to this seemingly dilapidated building from the outside called House of Kong. And inside, aligning all the walls, like, you kind of walk through this experience of the band with all of the. All of the iconography, like, all of the character drawings, starting from the first iterations of them and how it evolved over time, and this. So it's this merging of visual art with music that I think is really cool.

[Adam]

Well, I mean, that. That goes back to Burning man, right? I mean, Burning man and then it wasn't Coachella kind of iterating on Burning man and making it a more commercial, like, mainstream music experience. With art, it always had instant art installations.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah. Yeah, I suppose.

[Adam]

Yeah. Coachella always had that. I remember when Coachella. I don't know how much it costs to go to Coachella these days, but, like, early days, it was like 100 bucks, and you can get one day pass.

[Adam Skolnick]

That's a lot now.

[Adam]

Now.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, now you need a certain number of Instagram followers to even be able to buy A ticket, I guess.

[Adam]

Are you going?

[Adam Skolnick]

No, I've never gone.

[Adam]

You've never gone?

[Adam Skolnick]

The boys have gone many times. Julie's gone.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

So it's a bit much for me, honestly.

[Adam]

But I like watching it.

[Adam Skolnick]

I like watching. I like watching videos of it.

[Adam]

I could tell a derelict Coachella story right now, but I'm not sure.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, no sure. But I would say this. I. I've been stuck in my Gen X music bubble forever.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And I realized, like, I need to break out of this. Like, it's just becoming, like, too repetitive, and I need to, like, in the same way, I'm exploring a different relationship with the podcast. Like, I want to explore a different relationship with music. And one thing you'll discover, like, Zoom is too young. You're at the age where you're trying to impress upon him your musical tastes, I'm sure. Right?

[Adam]

Yes.

[Adam Skolnick]

But when they become teenagers, they commandeer the music selection in the car. Right. And then you have this opportunity to start to listen to what they like. And so I've been leaning into that. And what you realize is, like, oh, your kids are the portal to, like, what's actually happening and cool and, like, what they're interested in. And I've really expanded my, like, kind of musical interests as a result of that. And when I go into the gym on those early mornings sometimes, I'm preparing for a podcast, and so I'll watch videos on the TV of, you know, some person who I'm going to be speaking to later that day. But if I don't have that, I've been more and more just exploring music and, like, oh, Jai likes this band. Like, let's see what's on YouTube with this band. Or, like, watching, you know, live Geese concerts or Tiny Desk concerts, or. I like Tiny Deskp.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

Has a series of amazing, like, music live performances.

[Adam]

Check them out.

[Adam Skolnick]

Which is really cool.

[Adam]

I love that. I love the local stations.

[Adam Skolnick]

And then my guy, Jack Coyne, who hosts this show called Track Star in New York City, he has videos of, like, live performances in his studio. And I've just. It's opened my world to all these cool bands. Like Geese and Cameron Winter are just one, like, Turnstile, like, this super cool band that I've gotten really into that is kind of punk, kind of rock and roll there. They just had a huge show at Coachella, too. And I think they're just so exciting and so energetic. And what I love about Turnstile is in this age in which artists, creative people, musicians are being fed this story that the only way to be successful is to be just constantly releasing stuff, like put new music out, like, every week. A new song, a new music video, a new.

[Adam]

This.

[Adam Skolnick]

A new TikTok. These are guys. This band went in the other direction, and whatever money they made from their live performances or whatever, you know, their. Their music, they reinvested in the band. And they have made these extraordinary, like, music video documentaries that are executed at just the highest level. Like, they're art pieces in and of themselves that have just put them at a different kind of tier of craftsmanship.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

And their live performances are just, you know, so energetic, like, and I just think it's really turnstile. They're, like, taking this punk rock genre and then they're adding this high level of, like, visual art. This visual art, like, aspect to it. Cool. That I think is super interesting. And then in terms of, like, other bands that I've gotten into. Have you heard of.

[Adam]

No.

[Adam Skolnick]

So this is this Quebecois, like, French Canadian band. Yep. It's just two people, and they dress up in these. I don't even know what you would call these costumes, but you don't see their faces. Like, they're wearing these elaborate costumes. And it's just instrumental. And it's the most interesting musicianship that I've heard in a long time. So they're having, like, this moment right now where they're breaking through. That's really cool.

[Adam]

Montreal. Great city.

[Adam Skolnick]

So. Yeah. And Wet Leg. I love Wetland.

[Adam]

I love Wetland.

[Rich Roll]

But there's. There's a lot of bands I've noticed,

[Adam Skolnick]

also, like, in this Angie de Patrine vein where they're. They're. They're obscuring themselves. So they're anonymous. You don't know who these people are.

[Adam]

Singer.

[Adam Skolnick]

Which maybe was started with. With gorillas.

[Adam]

Yes.

[Adam Skolnick]

Right. Like being anonymous. Creating. Creating characters. Daft Punk.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

Or Marshmallow, I guess now.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

There's another band called Kurong Bin.

[Adam]

Yeah, I love Kurong Bin. Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

I'm super into.

[Adam]

They've been around a while.

[Adam Skolnick]

They've been around. Yeah. But, like, I'm discovering this.

[Adam]

Zuma loves.

[Adam Skolnick]

So there you go. Zuma already. But you introduce Zuma.

[Adam]

Zuma is very intentional. We already list. He already dictates the playlist. But it's cool stuff right now. But I think to your point is, like, he's gonna. He's gonna start hearing stuff we have no idea about, and he's gonna bring it to you. And that's cool.

[Adam Skolnick]

So it's been fun.

[Adam]

What about this new band? Manger. Big fan. Big fan.

[Adam Skolnick]

Well, this is the most happening band.

[Adam]

The most happening band.

[Adam Skolnick]

Manger is my wife Julie Pyatt's band. She just put out her first song and music video this past week. If you follow me on social media, you've enjoyed that.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

She's got more to come, and it's been great to see her step into this really authentic creative expression.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And she's so happy doing it. You know, like, this is what she should have been doing a long time ago.

[Adam]

And she's rocking.

[Adam Skolnick]

It's great.

[Adam]

She rocks.

[Adam Skolnick]

Like, owning it.

[Adam]

She owns it, dude.

[Adam Skolnick]

It's, like, pretty cool.

[Adam]

Patti Smith, Cheryl Crow, Julie Pyatt. You know, it's in that.

[Adam Skolnick]

When you wrote that beautiful bio for her.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, it's all real. It's true. And then to have your, you know, you guys, your family involved, it's amazing. Her son's.

[Adam Skolnick]

It's super cool. Yeah, it's super cool. And she said something the other day that's so true. So we went and saw Mike D, and he's playing with his two boys. And then you have Jeff Tweedy, who's, like, touring with his kids right now. Julie's playing with her boys. It's a thing.

[Adam]

It is a thing.

[Adam Skolnick]

Musicians playing with their kids. Yeah, it's cool.

[Adam]

That's how it goes, man. That shows you how old rock and roll is.

[Adam Skolnick]

I know, but it's exciting to see Julie flourishing creatively. And the kind of happiness that, that and the sense of satisfaction that comes with feeling like you're fully expressing yourself authentically.

[Adam]

Yeah. And then also just the idea of music, you know, it's like, it's interesting. Like, I've been learning guitar last few years and just like. But I, I, I did, like, I was a choir boy. I sang. I sang all the way up to, like, to college. And I.

[Adam Skolnick]

With the Bells.

[Adam]

I didn't do the Bells. No, I didn't do the Bells. But, like. But then having music not really be my expression after that became more writing and then finding it again. There's something about, like, the music itself, just having the music in you and around you and you're making it is like, it just, like, it just uplifts your energy, I think. Unless you're, like, doing it out of pathos. If you're doing it just purely out of love, which is easy when you're new. And she's made it new again, essentially, you know, like, and her whole story, amazing, like, that her brother is a serious musician. Her uncle is a serious musician. Right. Like, so she's got it in the blood.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

What have you been watching?

[Adam]

Okay, so.

[Adam Skolnick]

Media Diet.

[Adam]

Media Diet. Most recent thing I watched all the way through is something called the Dark wizard, which is an HBO documentary series. It's coming on online on Tuesday, so by the time this airs, it'll be out. It's all about Dean Potter, the great climber, free soloist, base jumper, wingsuit pilot, and it's his whole story. So Dean was one of the, you know, one of the. After the Stone Monkeys, one of the, like, the punk rock guy that came in and just blew up the Yosemite Valley, and right away was like, free soloing stuff nobody would even think of doing. And he was. Before Alex, it was Dean. But what you don't realize is that Dean was six. Six. I never knew that. Six, six. So there is advantages to being tall on a. On a face, I guess, but, like, there's also serious disadvantages. It's kind of like a small person's game. Like, you know, this kind of. It's like gymnastics. So, like, there's. There's a scene of him at the, like, soloing a route on the top of El Cap, that route that Alex has to wedge his body in and kind of shimmy up that crack. He's six, six doing that.

[Adam Skolnick]

Wow.

[Adam]

Like, I mean, he's wedged and you can see the pain. And so, you know, it's. It's a very. This guy is a beautiful soul, an artistic vision, a really amazing person. His. His journals, they. They. He has. They have access to his journals. So his journals are just incredible. And so you get a sense of the. Of his psychology and. And kind of, you know, he's one of those guys that had mood swings, and so he was depressed a lot. But he also was a groundbreaking athlete. So it's amazing to watch. I think it's four episodes. Yeah, four episodes. Each one's about an hour. And you go deep into it, and of course, it's a tragic end. He died when he was 43 in a wingsuit base jump accident in Yosemite Valley when it was an outlaw sport. He's one of the great outlaw athletes, and Alex is cast as the antagonist, which is, I think, refreshing for Alex also, but also kind of cool.

[Adam Skolnick]

How is he the antagonist?

[Adam]

So basically, when Dean is the. He's the king of the valley, he's the man, right? And then Alex shows up and he's a teenager living out his van, and he just starts free soloing stuff that Dean, he's heard Dean wants to do. And he does it. He does it before. And so, and then, and then the cutaway conversations with Alex, you get a sense of the killer instinct that created this amazing athlete that is Alex Honnold. You get a sense of it. You don't really understand why he's that way. Like, was there something, did he show up? Was he treated obnoxiously by the cool crowd? Is it not? But one thing that comes across is like Dean is climbing from a lot of pathos. Even in his early climbs, when he does this amazing route, he's up there like howling like a monkey and making it very, very much. Kind of. There's rage involved, there's pathos, there's the passion and love too. But there's also this other stuff. And just being around Alex and watching him climb and seeing it at the end of Free Solo, he climbs from a place of joy. He just loves it. So even though he's the engineer, he's not the artist. Like Dean is the artist. Dean is like the. He has this amazing artistic vision. Alex is more the kind of engineering guy that sees how to do something, then goes out and does it. But it's interesting to watch them both climb and see the difference. You know, it's funny that you think of the engineer guy as the guy climbing from love and this guy climbing from pain, but it does seem that way. And of course, the dark. You know, Dean at the end, you know, he has this relationship with Ravens comes into play. There's just like an incredible. It's just an incredible film. And he's just one of those iconic athletes that was gone too soon.

[Adam Skolnick]

Four part series.

[Adam]

Four part series.

[Adam Skolnick]

And he died in a wingsuit.

[Adam]

Died in a wingsuit base jump with his friend Graham. I forget his. I'm spacing on it. They call him Grambo. So it's Dean and Granbo who die. They both are going for this notch from a place called Taft. Taft Peak, I think it is, or Taft Exit. It's an exit off Taft Mountain in Yosemite. And they're going for this notch and Graham had done it before, Dean had not. There's a competitive aspect of Dean that comes into play and he's. It's there with Alex. And Alex does outdo him. You know, Alex is the new athlete on the block that does take his place. And I think towards the end he was the boss of the wingsuit guys. Like he. He revitalized BASE jumping in Yosemite. Dean did. And he had a whole Crew my. A guy that I'm riding about named Jeff Shapiro was on the inner circle with Dean at the last couple years of his life. And there was this amazing elite group of phenomenal climbers and phenomenal base jumpers and wingsuit pilots and just, they were just raging across the valley doing this amazing stuff. And at first Dean was against flying terrain. He wanted to fly long, high flights. But then he gradually got as more people started doing these terrible terrain lines, which is where you're closer to the edge because you can feel the speed more, but it's also much more dangerous. He started to do that and he started to do these insane terrain flights. I mean, he was an amazing wingsuit base jumper. But then Graham, a younger guy who was his protege, started to do these incredible jumps and that kind of perked Dean's competitive nature up again. And Jeff told me that confirms that. The one thing this, this is amazing. The one thing that doesn't come across that I think they show the video but they don't talk about it is the athleticism. At one point Alex references kind of free basing, which was free selling with a bass rig so that you have some safety net. He, you know, they use some out of context quote of Alex kind of dismissing that. I'm not sure how much he really dismissed that, but they used that nice quote to make it seem that way. But Dean being able to fall off a face and then position your body where you're tracking away from the mountain talking to Jeff, the athleticism involved of that is just next level. You see the footage of it, it's incredible to see him do it. But to actually perform, that is very rare. So we're talking about a, you know, iconic athlete in his own right.

[Adam Skolnick]

So you're working on this writing project, interviewing lots of these wingsuit guys.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

What have you learned? Like, what is the common, you know, strain across that ecosystem of athlete that is different from, you know, I don't know, the endurance athlete or the tennis player. Like, what's unique about that subculture and that personality type that you've discovered?

[Adam]

I'm not sure I have figured out, figured that out yet. It's a good question. I hope next time when we're actually talking about a book that's out, I'll have that down.

[Adam Skolnick]

But like, this is why you're, why you're interviewing them.

[Adam]

So I'm still very much in the reporting phase. What I will say is there's something about being close to death like that that makes you appreciate life. I think and some, you know, talking to Jeff, I can tell you, from Jeff's perspective, being close to that, it does bring into focus the these moments that we talked about before and how rare and precious they are. And that's Jeff, though. He's a thinking man. You know, some of them are just chasing the Jason, the fun. You know, there's definitely people who are just like, this is fucking awesome. I'm gonna rage. You know, like that kind of adrenaline rush. But then there's others that are a little bit of a mix, I think. Dean was an artist. You know, there's an amazing shot in this thing where he is doing a slack line. He's also one of the early slack liners. And so he was. He soloed a slack line in front of the rising full moon in Yosemite Valley, Cathedral Peak. He strung a slack line between the two kind of peaks of this mountain, and he's doing it. And Mikey Schaefer, who is part of the crew in Taipei, he shot it for Dean. It's one of the most beautiful things you'll ever see in your life, this video footage. It's just incredible to see the silhouette of Dean in front of this massive moon.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah. Wow.

[Adam]

Yeah. So that's what I've been watching. Yeah, that's the main thing.

[Adam Skolnick]

That's cool. I'll check that out. On the subject of, like, athlete nonfiction streaming content, I did watch the Mariah Wilson documentary on Netflix.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

That story is one we covered here on roll on the story of the gravel racer, Mariah Wilson, who was very much on the come up and was going to be, you know, like this just, you know, phenom in that sport being murdered in cold blood by the girlfriend of Colin Strickland, this woman, Kristin Armstrong. It's an insane story. It's like kind of perfect for Netflix because it's like true crime, you know?

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

I wouldn't call it a cinematic masterpiece, but if you're interested in that story and that world, I think it's worth watching. What I took away from it was a. Just the. The premeditation of Kristin Armstrong going into this murder. Like, they track, like, all of her movements in the car and all this sort of stuff. Like, it's really bone chilling. And then second to that, and perhaps more importantly, the impact that it is that it has had not just on, like, Mariah's loved ones and family, but also on Colin Strickland. Like, this guy is. Will never be the same, you know, of course, see him interviewed after, in the aftermath of it and you know, he will carry that to his grave. You know, it's. It's.

[Adam]

How could you shed that?

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, yeah. Other than that, what have I seen that's been good? Well, I saw my boy Dan McPherson's new movie, Beast.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

Which opened this weekend. Do you know this movie?

[Adam]

No, but I saw you post about it, so tell me about it.

[Adam Skolnick]

So Dan McPherson is a friend of mine. We've been friends since like 2012. Ozzy, former ironman, half ironman, endurance athlete, well known in Australia. He was the host of Dancing with the Stars for a number of years. Back in the day, moved to LA to become an actor. Things weren't going amazing, he moved back to Australia and he's had some success since then. He's been in lots of stuff. He was in foundation, hbo, Sci Fi Show. He was on a TV show called Strike Back. He did a couple movies in supporting roles with Russell Crowe. But Beast, he's the lead and he plays a mixed martial artist, like an MMA fighter, and he kills it. And Russell Crowe plays a supporting role to Dan. So everybody cool? Yeah. And Russell was a co writer on this movie and I think a producer as well, and it's released by Lionsgate and it's in movie theaters. Phenomenal. So it's just like a very cool moment for him, for somebody who's been in his game for so long to finally be in a leading man role. So super fun.

[Adam]

Congrats.

[Adam Skolnick]

He came over to the house this morning. We worked out. So it was great to see him and celebrate that.

[Adam]

That is amazing.

[Adam Skolnick]

So I enjoyed that. He did a great job. And, you know, I know him as a guy I used to ride bikes with and talk about triathlon. And then when he got this Strike Back show, he bulked up because he was playing like a special forces guy. So he got all super jacked and bulky. But then he had to learn how to become a martial artist, and he spent three years studying jiu jitsu and more Muay Thai and all this thing so that he could, you know, kind of really acquit himself well in this movie. And by all accounts, he has done an amazing job because all of these people in the fighting community are like, that is the most realistic portrayal of our sport that I've seen on screen. So it's pretty cool.

[Adam]

You mean like people like Mark Zuckerberg?

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, yes. The. The experts, the martial arts experts.

[Adam]

The best done the best. Guys, you know what? I studied Muay Thai once.

[Adam Skolnick]

Did you?

[Adam]

I did. So when I covered Thailand for a Planet I was living in Phuket for periods of time. And so whenever I was there, I'd go. There was a Muay Thai gym there, and I would do it. But they kept trying to get me to do the grappling stuff. But, you know, Rich, you know me. Do I look like a grappler to you?

[Adam Skolnick]

You really don't.

[Adam]

I don't grapple. I do not grapple. Yeah, you grapple.

[Adam Skolnick]

You grapple with your emotions and your neuroses. That's what you. That's. You're a. You're. You're. You're a black belt grappler.

[Adam]

When I'm grappling, something's going wrong. I want to flow. That's where I want to be.

[Adam Skolnick]

But isn't that what a Muay Thai fighter does? Like, at the highest level, you're in. You're flowing.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah. At the highest level, grappling is flowing. That's the thing. That's what I haven't figured out. Flowing is grappling is flowing.

[Adam Skolnick]

Now we're in a. We're like in a. We're in a vortex going to nowhere.

[Adam]

Let's go to the moon.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, let's go to the moon.

[Adam]

Let's go to the moon.

[Adam Skolnick]

So what do you have to say about Artemis, Adam?

[Adam]

I loved it. You know, we made it a family moment to watch the launch. We watched the launch. We watched the splashdown. I didn't. I did. I wasn't fully listening to everything, but there's a great podcast I was tuning into. 13 Minutes Presents, the BBC podcast. That was a cool little. It's a talkie show with. With a British astronaut and then some science journalists, and they talked about everything. And so they kind of brought more perspective on a daily basis to what was happening. I mean, I just think it's. I think, like, the main takeaways for me are like, I am a lunatic, meaning I love the moon.

[Adam Skolnick]

Right.

[Adam]

The language of these things. Lunatic sphere of influence.

[Adam Skolnick]

Is that the origin. Is that the etymology of the word lunatic?

[Adam]

Yes. People who love the moon, is it

[Adam Skolnick]

that they love the moon, or is it that, like, the full moon is like. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it. Yeah, it's like howling at the moon.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Moon howler. So lunatic sphere of influence. So at one point, Artemis crew went beyond the influence of the gravitational pull of Earth and into the gravitational influence of the moon. So it was under the moon's sphere of influence. I didn't know that that was the thing. Sphere of influence.

[Adam Skolnick]

What does that mean, though? I Don't understand.

[Adam]

It means you're under the gravitational.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, I understand that, but why is that?

[Adam]

Well, you heard of the. Of the phrase sphere of influence? Like, you know, somebody like. Rich word.

[Adam Skolnick]

That's what you're saying. You're saying that is the etymology.

[Adam]

Phrase must have come from the Apollo times, I'm guessing. I mean, it comes from physics. And then free return. Another cool phrase, because after they. So the. The. The crew went up, they were closer to Earth. They got. They approached the moon, then they did an interesting slingshot maneuver around to get on this path to go around the far side of the moon. They're the furthest away in space of all time, and they get the amazing eclipse shot and all of that. And then they get on this path to where they're on the path of free return, which meant even if they run out of fuel, everything went bad, they were coming back to Earth, which is interesting to think about how physics works. These smart people that all the math. That's one thing that I got from that podcast. All the math, all the physics, everything that you hear about, what's it for? It's for this kind of stuff. You know, it makes that possible to get back on that path of free return and to get back. And so, you know, there's so many little moments, the naming of the craters. But for me, like, I love the Apollo program. I have earthrise in our dining room, you know, like, I have a print of that. So I love this stuff. And, yeah, it was a cool moment. I did think on the way back when they splashed down, I felt for them because they splashed down, and all of a sudden they had to reboot their sat phone. Like, they couldn't call anybody. And then it took forever in the Navy to do their thing, and it's like coming off of a transcontinental flight and then being stuck on the tarmac for, like, an hour and a half.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah. There's something so relatable about the very minor challenges that they faced in the context of just the grandest, you know, like, most exquisitely executed mission ever. Like, they landed in exactly where they said they would, like within, like, within seconds of what they predicted. Right, right. Everything was just nailed to such a precise, insane degree. But they did have, like, certain challenges. I saw a tweet.

[Adam]

Still couldn't get out for, like.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, they couldn't. So I saw a really funny tweet about this. Hold on, this. This person, Leah Crane, who I don't even know. It just came up on my timeline. She Says deeply, deeply hilarious that everything on the Artemis 2 mission worked perfectly except outlook, a conference call, and briefly the toilet, which is just like any office workers, you know, experience. Right. Like, oh, they have the same, their issues are the same as mine.

[Adam]

Yes, that's brilliant. That's brilliant, you know, yeah, that's brilliant.

[Adam Skolnick]

But I think there's just something, you know, beyond just how extraordinary the whole thing was and you were more locked in on it than I was. Like, I watched the, the, the splashdown, I didn't watch the launch and I wasn't following it that intensely. But here are a group of like middle aged people who are just like good people, who are smart, who are doing a cool thing, and there's a wholesomeness to it and a hopefulness and an optimism that is like exactly the prescription we need right now, you know, and like, I just appreciate that and I'm grateful for that. Like, I just think it's, I think it's super cool.

[Adam]

And they named, they named Crater after the crew chief, Reed. What's Reed's last name? Maybe Hastings, I forget. But his. And then they named it for his wife who died of cancer like a couple of years before.

[Adam Skolnick]

Colleen, I think.

[Adam]

Colleen, yeah. The two things I want to say is that they risked their lives. It was a 1 in 20 chance that those heat shields wouldn't work on the way back because they were flawed heat shields and they'd had, in the test flight and these guys, these, this crew of four people still did it. Now why would they do it? People would ask, you know, some former astronauts were saying they shouldn't have done it and that NASA was, was being unnecessarily risky. But you know, one thing I will say from interviewing these, these wingsuit base jumpers and then, um, I think I just got pooped on by one of your birds.

[Adam Skolnick]

But in a good way.

[Adam]

It's good fun.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah.

[Adam]

You know, what you, what you realize is these people will go for it because if, if this didn't happen now, it would happen two years from now and these astronauts might not get the chance again. So this was their chance and it was a one. They, they'd figured it out from the data, a one in 20 chance. And that was enough. That was good enough for them. And so they risked their lives, man. It was, was not like, I mean, it's easy to, they're back now and it's, it was always working so it seemed fine, but like they had to, they had CO2 scrubbers that were getting that, you know, it's like a rebreather. It's like living in a rebreather. Like these diving rebreathers that don't have bubbles where what you breathe out gets scrubbed and served back to you as oxygen. That's what they were breathing on. So they had backup tanks and everything if they had to get back. But they were, they were living off these, these CO2 scrubbers and, and they were risking their ass. I mean, it's very, very interesting. And it's also cool, like you're saying in this era of the United States where we're waging war right now, a needless war that is, you know, that is causing all this kind of repercussions from, and it seems like almost mindless the way it's been executed, and lacking in humility and thoughtfulness. You know, if you're going to go to war, I would wish you were humble and thoughtful about how you're going to execute it versus rash and maybe stupid. And now this is the other thing. The United States is executing this amazing, thoughtful, peerless experience, the deepest we've ever done. So it shows you the capability of this country in both ways. And it's kind of like encouraging, but also makes you kind of feel like, wow, we're very schizophrenic. Like all countries are.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, the polarity, like the extreme polarity of what's happening politically and, you know, globally in terms of global conflict and like this war that we're in and all the insanity that's happening right now and then this, this just incredibly uplifting thing at the same time, like, it's a weird schizophrenic situation. Like it, it's a. Yes and kind of deal, I guess.

[Adam]

But here's where they tie together. There's like this dominance, this, this, this lust for dominance that is at the core of our culture that has always existed in the United States. And I think Trump is part of that and all of this is part of that. But also like NASA's part of that, like Artemis goal is to get close to the moon so we can build a base on the fucking moon. I mean, it's crazy. Like it's. I don't want to base on the moon. Do you want to base on the moon?

[Adam Skolnick]

I'm into space exploration and you know, ultimately long term, like expanding the horizon for our species, but I'm not into just replicating the mistakes that we're making here elsewhere. You know what I mean? So if you watch that TV show, like for all mankind, like it really explores that idea.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

And what was the. That beautiful Brad Pitt movie? That's about his relationship with his father where he. No, no, no, no, no, no. Ad Astra. I just re. Watched Ad Astra like a month ago. And it's the same thing. They go to the moon and the moon is just fast food restaurants. And like, you know, it's just. They just. We just export, like, our culture. Like, you think it's going to be different and the same, you know, turf wars and territorialism and we're just replicating our mistakes. Right. So. Right. This is. This is the point you're making.

[Adam]

That's the point I'm making. And like, by the way, not. Not for nothing, using a rich phrase, the moon does influence our tides, which is like the ocean and the weather and everything. It's like, let's be careful with the fucking moon. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, it's. It is part of this biological system. So let's have humility. You know, it does take balls. So you. It's not like humility is always the best place play. It does take incredible guts and strength and focus. And I appreciate those things too. But, like, I think to be really strong, you have to have humility. Like, I think often force is mistake is mistaken for strength. And strength is something totally different than that. It includes. Includes humility. And so, you know, that's my only concern. My only note. My only note for NASA is like, make sure we're humble about this.

[Adam Skolnick]

But that's not NASA's remit. You know what I mean? Like, their remit is to do the exploration.

[Adam]

I know.

[Adam Skolnick]

Like, you know, the rest of it is up to, you know, us and the government, I suppose. Right. But we haven't answered the most important question. The whole purpose of this Artemis 2 mission, which was to put the test to the flat Earthers. Have we put the nail in the coffin of the flat earth movement with this?

[Adam]

Definitely not. You know, somewhere there's a flat Earth.

[Adam Skolnick]

What is the argument? What is the flat Earthers, their argument?

[Adam]

Now I'll tell you. Somewhere there's a flat Earther listening to this being like, I can't believe Richard M. Are falling for this Artemis. Like, that didn't happen.

[Adam Skolnick]

So it just didn't. So basically it's just a production. It's saying like, this was another Stanley Kubrick esque, like, you know, Hollywood production and none of this happened.

[Adam]

Do you know where Stanley Kubrick was the day of the launch?

[Adam Skolnick]

Is he still alive? Maybe he directed It.

[Adam]

Oh, right, he directed it from beyond.

[Adam Skolnick]

Are we there yet? Is this where we're at? I don't know. I don't know. Let's end on a hopeful note, Adam.

[Adam]

All right, Ending on a hopeful note.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah, Splash us down.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Adam Skolnick]

With our damaged heat shields, take us down.

[Adam]

Well, I think, you know, the takeaway from Artemis from the astronauts perspective that I've seen is the same as the takeaway of almost every, you know, experience from all the astronauts is that when they're up there, they fall in love with the beauty of the Earth and the, and everybody on Earth. And so, you know, you see when you're out in the vacuum, in the void, you see what we have so clearly and it's so beautiful, you know, it stands out so incredibly. And so, I mean, I think that's where I'm at. It's like, let's enjoy the beauty of what we have. Because even though some terrible things are happening, terrible things have always happened, like we've said. And so I think that's the takeaway for me. It's the same thing I said at the beginning of this episode, which is I try to focus on the moments of beauty because they're sublime. It's not just one beautiful thing that doesn't matter. It's like everything. And so the more deep we can be in those moments of, you know, nirvana. And Artemis was a moment of nirvana for all of us together that we could share in then all the better. So, you know, thank you to NASA and everyone for doing that because it's, it's beautiful.

[Adam Skolnick]

Artemis 2 was a one upper to Alex Honnold's type A 101 climb. They really one upped him with that, didn't they?

[Adam]

They really did.

[Adam Skolnick]

But it is the consistent refrain of every astronaut who has had that experience when they come back and they're like, when you have that perspective of the Earth from such a distance, you realize, oh, it's a spaceship. We're all on it together. It's so small. We have more in common than, than, than, you know, much more in common than our differences. And they repeat that and we understand that intellectually, but there's something so experiential about that, like, because it's so moving for them, like it changes them. And I wish we could be changed just by hearing them reflect that back to us. Yeah, like we get it, right, but we don't get it. Like they get it.

[Adam]

No.

[Adam Skolnick]

And if we did, maybe would we would be better at resolving those differences and avoiding going into poorly conceived global conflicts and, you know, killing each other unnecessarily.

[Adam]

Well, you're bringing us down again. We got to bring us back up, which is that there are moments like that, like life is for the. For the person to experience life is to be experienced. To the tie the wingsuit to Alex, to this, to the astronauts, to everything we're talking about, to your. To. We were talking about at the top of self improvement. Life isn't. It is in. Is a sport. It's an active sport. Right. It's a sport for the. For the people in the game. And so that's. I think that's the takeaway is you can find those moments of connectivity. They're available to you here on Earth all the time. You have to seek them out, though they're not going to necessarily bite you. Maybe a few times in your lifetime, something will smash you on the head. Some realization. But you can decide that I'm going to go sit by the sea, walk along the river, walk through the farmland. You could find a way to connect with the beauty of the Earth every day of your life. I encourage it. I think there's nothing more empowering than just sitting down and watching the world go by. Sometimes, you know, like, that's what I think is the most important thing. And I wish more people would do that and not just the world, not just like in a cafe. Although everything's wildlife, really, we're all wildlife. But, like, if you can get out to some place where nature is really showing itself, you can have those moments yourself.

[Adam Skolnick]

I love it. You did it. You splashed us down beautifully. More evidence of Adam Skolnick ascending. I think we did it, man. Thanks for doing this.

[Adam]

Thanks, man. I love this.

[Rich Roll]

This is cool out here.

[Adam Skolnick]

It's amazing.

[Adam]

I felt more present with you.

[Adam Skolnick]

Me too.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Adam Skolnick]

Yeah. Yeah. To be continued. Thanks, everybody, for tuning in.

[Adam]

Thank you.

[Adam Skolnick]

Till next time. Peace.