Podcast
The Schism Between Us
Hosted by Marnie Klassen with MennoCreative · EN
The Schism Between Us is a limited series about religious polarization, focusing on the tense relationship between Mennonites in Canada. Mennonite Church Canada and the Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches share a common history in imperial Russia, but an old schism and contemporary differences often prevent them from working together.
Follow Marnie Klassen as she dives into this 166 year old schism, asking the questions: what’s happening between these religious groups, and how did we get here anyway?
This podcast is supported by Canadian Mennonite's MennoCreative residency.
8episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
All In The Family
5d ago00:38:51Tap to summarizeS1E7: All In The FamilyEvery cultural group has a story, and most stories involve some level of trauma. All In The Family explores some of the ways trauma shapes identity and us-and-them mentalities among Mennonites and Mennonite Brethren, especially given the 1920s forced migration from Russia. This episode features Thelma Kauffman, Elfrieda Klassen, and John Weier, weaving their stories and reflections together to answer the question “where do we go from here?” with thoughtful and powerful narrative and expertise. John F. Kennedy's greatest Speech on Peace:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RclaV_3_eOA Prairie Bible Institute, now Prairie College:https://www.prairie.edu/about-100-years-of-tradition/ Normal School:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_school Anabaptist positions on divorce and remarriage:https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Divorce_and_Remarriage Swiss Mennonites in Ohio:https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Ohio_(USA)#The_Swiss_Mennonites GAMEO article: Migrations:https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Migrations#From_Europe_to_the_Americas Rupa Marya & Raj Patel on social injustice that turns into trauma which in turn makes racialized bodies sick: https://birchbarkbooks.com/products/inflamed Dr. Gabor Mate on how a toxic culture makes us all sick:https://drgabormate.com/book/the-myth-of-normal/ Unity Church: https://www.unity.org/en Resmaa Menakem and Krista Tippett talk about race, trauma, and healing our racial wounds:https://onbeing.org/programs/resmaa-menakem-notice-the-rage-notice-the-silence/ Dr. Hillary McBride on embodied healing of spiritual wounds:https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ The Schism Between Us is written and produced by Marnie Klassen, and supported by MennoCreative, a program of Canadian Mennonite magazine. Technical Production and Sound Design: Matt VeithBackground Music: Jaimie TerpstraGraphic Design: Tiff WuEditor in Chief: Marnie KlassenTheme song: “In the Rifted Rock” arranged by Mykayla Turner and performed by Marta Bunnet Wiebe, Isaac Kuhl Schlegel, Solomon Schlegel, Allegra Friesen Epp, Matthew Veith, and Courtney Kuhl SchlegelThank you to everyone who has helped shape this story over the past 10 months. Over and out, Marnie
Transcribe →Yarrow: Conducting Heaven
2w ago00:26:10Tap to summarizeS1E6: Yarrow: Conducting HeavenYarrow, BC appears to be a peaceful village, but since its beginnings as a Mennonite refugee settlement, the village has been the setting of religious tension, polarization, conflict, and ex-communications. Episode 6 of The Schism Between Us dives into this one community’s history, as well as host Marnie Klassen’s own family history in the area, to ask: what happened in Yarrow? and: is reconciliation possible?Yarrow, British Columbia: Mennonite Promise boxed set (Village of Unsettled Yearnings and Before We Were the Land's), edited by Leonard Neufeldt:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/169869084-village-of-unsettled-yearnings-together-with-before-we-were-the-land-s?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=3ZSUSTCXyO&rank=2 GAMEO article on excommunication:https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Excommunication GAMEO article on my great-grandfather, George Reimer (written by my great-aunt Irene):https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Reimer,_George_John_(1908-1963) YUM Church YouTube video: “Why did YUM Church adopt a land acknowledgement statement?”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoH2Ckdq5cU&t=186s Salish Current reports: “Sumas Lake: a once (and future?) feature of the border”https://salish-current.org/2023/12/19/sumas-lake-once-and-future-feature-of-the-border/ GRanDMA OnLine: Prussian/Russian Mennonite Genealogy:https://grandmaonline.org/ The Schism Between Us is written and produced by Marnie Klassen, and supported by MennoCreative, a program of Canadian Mennonite magazine. Technical Production and Sound Design: Matt VeithBackground Music: Jaimie TerpstraGraphic Design: Tiff WuEditor in Chief: Marnie KlassenTheme song: “In the Rifted Rock” arranged by Mykayla Turner and performed by Marta Bunnet Wiebe, Isaac Kuhl Schlegel, Solomon Schlegel, Allegra Friesen Epp, Matthew Veith, and Courtney Kuhl SchlegelThank you to everyone who has helped shape this story over the past 10 months.
Transcribe →He Said, She Said - Part 2
3w ago00:42:10Tap to summarizeS1E5: He Said, She Said – Part 2Questions of 2SLGBTQIA+ inclusion and affirmation in the church have divided the church, including in both the Mennonite Church and Mennonite Brethren denominations in Canada. “He Said, She Said” explores how these questions and issues cause rifts within and between these communities. Part 2 looks at the last 20 years across both denominations and the tumult caused by the theology around 2SLGBTQIA+ people and their inclusion and exclusion in the church. We stop to tell a few stories – one about women in leadership, one about a ministry investigation gone wrong, and one about the ending of a fruitful relationship. This is He Said, She Said – Part 2. Listen to He Said, She Said – Part 1:https://linktr.ee/SchismBetweenPod John Longhurst’s blog, A Time to Tell:https://timetotellcanada.blogspot.com/ On Holy Ground book and link to Mary Anne Isaak’s essay:https://www.commonword.ca/ResourceView/82/25569 BFC (Being a Faithful Church) 7:https://canadianmennonite.org/being-faithful-church-7/ Canadian Mennonite reports on Resolution 1 (MCBC):https://canadianmennonite.org/mc-bc-wrestles-tough-issues/ Artisan Church’s Milestone Statement:https://artisanchurch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/MILESTONE-STATEMENT-ON-LGBTQ-INCLUSION.pdf Christian views on homosexuality (including a note about Side C):https://www.whollyourselves.org/thefoursides A Time to Listen:https://atimetolisten.ca/ Lee Kosa writes about his experience at and after Cedar Park:https://leekosa.com/on-conflict-pain-composting/ https://directionjournal.org/51/2/identity-anxiety-and-holy-spirit.html CBC reports: “Winnipeg pastor's reflections on LGBTQ+ inclusion removed from book highlighting female leaders”:https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/canadian-mennonite-brethren-church-lgbtq-inclusion-1.6518470 “The Schism Between Us” is written and produced by Marnie Klassen, and supported by MennoCreative, a program of Canadian Mennonite magazine. Technical Production and Sound Design: Matt VeithBackground Music: Jaimie TerpstraGraphic Design: Tiff WuEditor in Chief: Marnie KlassenTheme song: “In the Rifted Rock” arranged by Mykayla Turner and performed by Marta Bunnet Wiebe, Isaac Kuhl Schlegel, Solomon Schlegel, Allegra Friesen Epp, and Courtney Kuhl SchlegelThank you to John Longhurst and Lee Kosa for their help fact checking dates for this episode. Special thanks to Will Braun, Susan Fish, David Balzer, and many others who have helped shape this story over the past 10 months.
Transcribe →He Said, She Said - Part 1
4w ago00:40:07Tap to summarizeS1E4: He said, she said – Part 1Questions of 2SLGBTQIA+ inclusion and affirmation in the church have divided the church, including in both the Mennonite Church and Mennonite Brethren denominations in Canada. “He said, she said” explores how these questions and issues cause rifts in and between these communities. In Part 1, we’re sharing one man’s story of how the Mennonite Brethren church has handled these conversations. In 2022, Ed Willms, then Executive Director of the Ontario Mennonite Brethren church, hosted a conversation about 2SLGBTQIA+ inclusion and affirmation in the church. Within months, he was let go. This is his story. MB Herald reports: “Willms helms Ontario conference”:https://mbherald.com/willms-helms-ontario-conference/ John Longhurst reports: “Ontario Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches ousts Executive Director for holding LGBTQ+ discussion”:https://timetotellcanada.blogspot.com/2022/11/ontario-conference-of-mennonite.html Ontario MB Conference report 2023 (including details about Freechurch and Southridge’s departures from the conference):https://na.mennonitebrethren.ca/2023-onmb-report/ Canadian Mennonite reports: “Ontario MB leader ousted, two churches suspended”:https://canadianmennonite.org/ontario-mb-leader-ousted-two-churches-suspended/ “The Schism Between Us” is written and produced by Marnie Klassen, and supported by MennoCreative, a program of Canadian Mennonite magazine. Technical Producer: Matt VeithBackground Music: Jaimie TerpstraGraphic Design: Tiff WuEditor in Chief: Marnie KlassenTheme song: “In the Rifted Rock” arranged by Mykayla Turner and performed by Marta Bunnet Wiebe, Isaac Kuhl Schlegel, Solomon Schlegel, Allegra Friesen Epp, and Courtney Kuhl SchlegelSpecial thanks to Will Braun, Susan Fish, David Balzer, and many others who have helped shape this story over the past 10 months.
Transcribe →"True Evangelical Faith"
Jul 1000:38:37Tap to summarizeSince their 1860 divide, Mennonites and Mennonite Brethren have been influenced by different theological traditions. This episode of The Schism Between Us explores the tension between Anabaptist and Evangelical theology within the MB church, and between the two denominations in question. Several guests reflect on the possibilities of a more diverse church, and Mennonite Church Canada’s Executive Minister calls for a deeper Christology in the denomination. “The Schism Between Us” is written and produced by Marnie Klassen, and supported by MennoCreative, a program of Canadian Mennonite magazine. Technical Producer: Matt VeithBackground Music: Jaimie TerpstraGraphic Design: Tiff WuEditor in Chief: Marnie KlassenTheme song: “In the Rifted Rock” arranged by Mykayla Turner and performed by Marta Bunnet Wiebe, Isaac Kuhl Schlegel, Solomon Schlegel, Allegra Friesen Epp, and Courtney Kuhl SchlegelOpening song: “True Evangelical Faith” composed by Larry Nickel, performed by West Coast Mennonite Chamber Choir in 1991 directed by Tony Funk. Copyright Cyprus Choral Music, licensed and used with permission. Special thanks to Will Braun, Susan Fish, David Balzer, and many others who have helped shape this story over the past 10 months.
Transcribe →How We Talk To Each Other
Jun 2700:31:06Tap to summarizeIn this episode of The Schism Between Us, host Marnie Klassen talks to Mary Funk about the early years of Jubilee Mennonite Church, and to Gilbert Brandt and Kathryn Lymburner about denominational publications. Carolina Gouveia Santana reflects on being a person of colour in a predominantly white church, and Paul Peters talks about polarization and what humility looks like in practice. The MB Herald goes out of print: https://mbherald.com/mbh-end/Kathryn Lymburner is appointed Publisher of Canadian Mennonite: https://canadianmennonite.org/kathryn-lymburner-appointed-publisher-of-canadian-mennonite/ “The Last Word,” MB Herald editors on the history of the publication: https://mbherald.com/the-last-word/ “The Schism Between Us” is written and produced by Marnie Klassen, and supported by MennoCreative, a program of Canadian Mennonite magazine. Technical Producer: Matt VeithMusic: Jaimie TerpstraGraphic Design: Tiff WuEditor in Chief: Marnie KlassenTheme song: “In the Rifted Rock” arranged by Mykayla Turner and performed by Marta Bunnet Wiebe, Isaac Kuhl Schlegel, Solomon Schlegel, Allegra Friesen Epp, and Courtney Kuhl SchlegelSpecial thanks to Will Braun, Susan Fish, David Balzer, and many others who helped shape this story.
Transcribe →You Are Here.
Jun 1100:26:21Tap to summarizeThis introductory episode of The Schism Between Us follows host Marnie Klassen through her upbringing in the spaces between the Mennonite and Mennonite Brethren denominations. Marnie explores how this ecumenical context continues to shape her own understanding of the ongoing tensions between the groups, and talks with several people who shed light on the origins of the split. Welcome to The Schism Between Us. "You are here."“The Schism Between Us” is written and produced by Marnie Klassen, and supported by MennoCreative, a program of Canadian Mennonite magazine. Technical Producer: Matt VeithMusic: Jaimie TerpstraGraphic Design: Tiff WuEditor in Chief: Marnie KlassenTheme song: “In the Rifted Rock” arranged by Mykayla Turner and performed by Marta Bunnet Wiebe, Isaac Kuhl Schlegel, Solomon Schlegel, Allegra Friesen Epp, and Courtney Kuhl SchlegelSpecial thanks to Will Braun, Susan Fish, David Balzer, and many others who helped shape this story.
Transcribe →Teaser Trailer
Apr 2200:01:33Tap to summarizeDo you ever have a question so big, you just have to go and find out?Listen to the teaser trailer now to find out what Marnie Klassen's big question is.
Transcribe →