S1E5: He Said, She Said – Part 2

Questions of 2SLGBTQIA+ inclusion and affirmation in the church have divided the church, including in both the Mennonite Church and Mennonite Brethren denominations in Canada. “He Said, She Said” explores how these questions and issues cause rifts within and between these communities.

Part 2 looks at the last 20 years across both denominations and the tumult caused by the theology around 2SLGBTQIA+ people and their inclusion and exclusion in the church. We stop to tell a few stories – one about women in leadership, one about a ministry investigation gone wrong, and one about the ending of a fruitful relationship. This is He Said, She Said – Part 2.

Listen to He Said, She Said – Part 1:

https://linktr.ee/SchismBetweenPod

John Longhurst’s blog, A Time to Tell:

https://timetotellcanada.blogspot.com/

On Holy Ground book and link to Mary Anne Isaak’s essay:

https://www.commonword.ca/ResourceView/82/25569

BFC (Being a Faithful Church) 7:

https://canadianmennonite.org/being-faithful-church-7/

Canadian Mennonite reports on Resolution 1 (MCBC):

https://canadianmennonite.org/mc-bc-wrestles-tough-issues/

Artisan Church’s Milestone Statement:

https://artisanchurch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/MILESTONE-STATEMENT-ON-LGBTQ-INCLUSION.pdf

Christian views on homosexuality (including a note about Side C):

https://www.whollyourselves.org/thefoursides

A Time to Listen:

https://atimetolisten.ca/

Lee Kosa writes about his experience at and after Cedar Park:

https://leekosa.com/on-conflict-pain-composting/

https://directionjournal.org/51/2/identity-anxiety-and-holy-spirit.html

CBC reports: “Winnipeg pastor's reflections on LGBTQ+ inclusion removed from book highlighting female leaders”:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/canadian-mennonite-brethren-church-lgbtq-inclusion-1.6518470

“The Schism Between Us” is written and produced by Marnie Klassen, and supported by MennoCreative, a program of Canadian Mennonite magazine.

Technical Production and Sound Design: Matt Veith

Background Music: Jaimie Terpstra

Graphic Design: Tiff Wu

Editor in Chief: Marnie Klassen

Theme song: “In the Rifted Rock” arranged by Mykayla Turner and performed by Marta Bunnet Wiebe, Isaac Kuhl Schlegel, Solomon Schlegel, Allegra Friesen Epp, and Courtney Kuhl Schlegel

Thank you to John Longhurst and Lee Kosa for their help fact checking dates for this episode.

Special thanks to Will Braun, Susan Fish, David Balzer, and many others who have helped shape this story over the past 10 months.