90s Blind Spots: Monday, March 2nd, 2026

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Toast – “90s Blind Spots”

Hosts: Jackie & Olivia Oshry
Date: Monday, March 2, 2026
Episode Theme:
An entertaining Monday catch-up where Jackie and Olivia dive into nostalgia, pop culture, award season, and the “blind spots” of growing up in the ‘90s—those cultural references you just missed. The pair give a candid, hilarious look at their weekends, discuss everything from the latest award shows to celebrity news, and reflect on generational gaps in true crime and political lore.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around navigating ‘90s “blind spots”—specifically moments, pop culture, news, or historical context missed by people who were technically there but too young to fully understand. Jackie and Olivia use the recent Redheads book (about the Unabomber’s daughter!) as a launchpad for discussing missed cultural touchstones, while weaving in humorous weekend stories, family antics, and award show recaps.

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1. Cozy Weekend Vibes & Barbecue Chaos

Timestamps: 00:24 – 06:04

• Jackie & Olivia share details on their restorative, pajama-filled weekends spent in Florida, never leaving the house and enjoying family time.
• A lively recounting of a “stormy” barbecue – with pre-made kosher burger patties that bombed, but vibrant camaraderie and vlogs at the farmer’s market (with a rendezvous at a Middle Eastern stand).
• Quote:
  • “You know you had a restorative weekend when you didn’t get out of your pajamas.” – Olivia (01:00)
  • “Ben went to the grocery store, and Jackie’s Publix is like a kind of a bus in kosher section…those premade patties suck balls.” – Jackie (02:05)
• The sisters riff about navigating family barbecue prep (and clean-up!), Ben’s attempts at “Instagram dishes,” and hotdog tartare horror.
• Shout out to a Patreon farmers’ market vlog, which Olivia describes as “the next Anthony Bourdain.”
  • “I felt like a third wheel… Ben met the woman of his dreams. She gave him a four-course meal of tasters and I literally felt awkward being there.” – Jackie (04:23)

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2. Restaurant Mishaps & Picky Eating

Timestamps: 06:12 – 09:13

• The saga of Sunday dinner: Olivia tries to take Jackie to a well-reviewed Asian fusion spot, leading to a “hunger-gate” crisis when Jackie finds the menu “inaccessible.”
• Debate on the perils of not menu-stalking before going out (very on theme for the picky eaters among us).
• “You are so picky… you should be looking at the menus before you go to restaurants because you are so picky!” – Olivia (08:44)
• Jackie threatens to try the other, more accessible sushi restaurant across the street next time.

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3. Businessman of the Week – Uplifting Community Shoutout

Timestamps: 09:15 – 12:42

• This week’s Businessman of the Week is Dr. Mike Chodo, a Dallas plastic surgeon and husband of influencer Bridget Ballit, honored for his devotion to family during Bridget’s cancer battle and for his impact in the community.
• “I just love him. He is the standard for what a husband should be.” – Jackie (11:04)
• Heartfelt discussion about using their platform for good, the importance of cause-driven highlights, and helping professionals reach a new audience.
• Fun flashbacks to previous honored “businessmen.”

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4. Redheads Book Club: Unabomber's Daughter & ‘90s True Crime Blind Spots

Timestamps: 12:40 – 17:39

• Recap of “What Kind of Paradise by Janelle Brown,” a novel posing the question: “What if the Unabomber had a daughter?” leading Olivia to admit her fascination with true crime stories from the 90s.
• Jackie’s confession: she has no idea who the Unabomber was—a true “blind spot”—sparking a detailed, clear explanation from Olivia about Ted Kaczynski and ‘90s crime (Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.).
• “I feel like people reference him a lot, but again, it’s just like JFK… It happened in the 90s. So we were…old enough to be there, but young enough that we’re not learning it in our history books.” – Olivia (16:22)
• Insightful analogies to growing up with sisters (“survivalist house”) and the unique experience of being ‘90s kids.

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5. SAG ~ “Actor Awards” Recap: Netflix Steps Up

Timestamps: 23:14 – 33:38

• Review of Netflix’s first ever live-streamed Actor Awards (aka SAG Awards), focusing on the seamless production, high quality, and peer-voted ethos.
• Kristen Bell hosted, but was given mixed reviews for a confusing musical intro (“It was Ariana DeBose 2.0” – Jackie, 24:14).
• Recognition of Sinners as Best Picture, Michael B. Jordan’s star turn (“very Parent Trap, he plays himself twice”), and Catherine O’Hara’s posthumous win for supporting actress, accepted by Seth Rogen.
• TV drama awards discussed, with The Pit (“Noah Wyle, Adam Sandler’s handsome cousin!”) and The Diplomat (Keri Russell). Plus, fashion comments on the difference between actors on screen vs. the carpet.
• Deep dive into the trend of adapting miniseries, tackling the “second season curse” (“A lot of things start out as miniseries…and it ruins them.” – Jackie, 31:03).
• Notable Moment: Jackie eviscerates the actor playing JFK in the “Love Story” miniseries:
  • “The guy who’s JFK is abhorrent. He’s one of the worst actors of all time.” – Jackie (31:44)

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6. 90s “Recreation Renaissance”: Carolyn & JFK Jr., Nepotism, and American Dynasties

Timestamps: 33:38 – 38:06

• Examination of why the ‘90s are “ripe for recreation,” especially with Gen Z and Millennials revisiting JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette’s story.
• Discourse on dynasty families: from the Kennedys to the Bushes.
• Contemplating the “nepo baby” discourse, and how attitudes toward nepotism have changed.
• “But that was back when America, like, lived for nepotism… Now it’s like a curse.” – Jackie (38:00)

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7. Pop Culture Rundown

A. Brit Awards Recap & The State of Male Pop Divas
Timestamps: 39:04 – 44:55

• Harry Styles headlines the Brit Awards, with commentary on his attempt to manufacture a TikTok dance trend, and the shifting pop landscape as Benson Boone, Somber, and others emerge.
• “In the time that Harry’s been gone, a lot of male pop divas have come on the scene… For the male pop divas, like, there’s actually not [room].” – Jackie (41:19)
• Discussion on virality, song trends, and why Harry’s “Aperture” didn’t launch as expected.

B. Zendaya and Tom Holland’s “Secret” Wedding
Timestamps: 45:00 – 47:57

• Law Roach, Zendaya’s stylist, casually confirms Zendaya and Tom Holland are married.
• Admiration for Zendaya’s ability to stay radically private:
  • “She doesn’t do it for the fans. She’s in love with her man, and that’s all that matters.” – Jackie (45:30)
• Extended riff on how “privacy” really works in celebrity culture and who actually pulls it off.

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8. Kelly Clarkson Show Successor Debate: Pink, Perry, or…?

Timestamps: 52:14 – 61:35

• Rumors swirl that NBC is considering Pink to take over Kelly Clarkson’s daytime slot after Kelly’s exit.
• Jackie argues Pink is too divisive/publicly opinionated compared to Kelly’s universally liked, apolitical daytime persona.
• Extended, thoughtful casting brainstorm for who could replace Kelly:
  • Pink: “She wouldn’t be able to maintain that level of escapism… [with Kelly] you’re not getting political. Kelly just gets away with it, and people need that.” – Jackie (54:25)
  • Jennifer Hudson: Noted for her influencer-friendly bookings.
  • Katy Perry: “She loves to be loved… she needs to do something with all that energy.” – Olivia (58:18)
  • Kristen Bell: “Everybody loves her, and she sings.” – Jackie (60:29)
  • Carrie Underwood: Too polarizing, plus busy with Idol.
  • Drew Barrymore & podcast hosts: Fun speculation on transferring the “America’s Sweetheart” vibe.
• The segment reflects on the rare ability to be “for everyone” and the difficulty of remaking that magic.

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9. Shanna Moakler vs. Kourtney Kardashian: Co-Parenting Drama

Timestamps: 62:15 – 66:23

• Shanna Moakler airs grievances about co-parenting with ex Travis Barker and Kourtney Kardashian on a podcast—claims “lines were crossed.”
• Olivia and Jackie are firmly Team Kourtney, discussing how the Kardashians often step in where bio parents leave gaps:
  • “If Kourtney was ever too involved, it’s just because there was space for her to be that.” – Jackie (63:38)
• They call out Shanna using a podcast to air dirty laundry as “rude and unnecessary.”
• “Going on a podcast to talk about the woman whose house Alabama lives in… like, Alabama loves Kourtney!” – Olivia (65:01)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On ‘90s Blind Spots:
  • “It happened in the 90s when you were living it, so no one taught you about it because it wasn’t history to you, but you were too young to know what was going on.” –Olivia (13:52)
• On Pop Stardom/Celebrity:
  • “You want to be in the pop diva space, you think you can phone it in? They never phone it in… At least now it’s equal for all genders.” – Olivia (44:13)
• On Privacy:
  • “Zendaya just does it so successfully that it makes you realize, like, everybody else who claims they want privacy…you don’t.” –Jackie (47:29)
• On Daytime TV:
  • “Kelly has always been for everyone. That’s why the network’s probably freaking… She just got away with being Kelly and just being for everyone.” –Jackie (59:31)

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Key Timestamps Index

• Barbecue & Weekend Recap: 00:24–06:04
• Restaurant & Food Mishap: 06:12–09:13
• Businessman of the Week: 09:15–12:42
• Redheads Book Club & Unabomber: 12:40–17:39
• Waco, Survivalism, ‘90s Lore: 16:39–17:39
• Award Show Recap: 23:14–33:38
• JFK, Nepotism, Dynasty Discussion: 33:38–38:06
• Brit Awards & Harry Styles: 39:04–44:55
• Zendaya Wedding: 45:00–47:57
• Kelly Clarkson Successor: 52:14–61:35
• Shanna Moakler & Kourtney Kardashian: 62:15–66:23

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Tone & Vibe

Jackie and Olivia keep things light, sisterly, and honest—frequently switching between heartfelt, self-deprecating, and pop culture-savvy. There’s an effortless weaving of personal anecdotes into broader cultural moments, providing both laughs and food for thought for ‘90s and 2000s kids navigating “blind spots” in cultural literacy.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

If you’re a millennial who ever felt left out of a reference to the Unabomber, Waco, or the JFK Jr. era, this episode is for you. It’s also a must-listen for those invested in pop culture gossip, award shows, and ever-evolving conversations about what it means to be “America’s Sweetheart.” The sisters’ witty chemistry and their willingness to admit what they don’t know make the episode both accessible and hilarious.

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“Delicious definitions!” – Olivia (00:32) Love you, bye!

Transcript

[Jackie]

Good morning, girlies.

[Olivia]

It's the toast. It's Jackson Claude, and we're your host.

[Jackie]

It's your favorite show.

[Olivia]

The best five things you need to know.

[Jackie]

We'll start your day off.

[Olivia]

Swirly.

[Jackie]

It's the toast.

[Olivia]

They sound amazing.

[Jackie]

Welcome back to the toast and happy Monday. Hope everybody had a great weekend that was both restorative and. And par.

[Olivia]

Delicious definitions.

[Jackie]

When in doubt, just say par. Delicious.

[Olivia]

When in doubt, par Gee. Yeah, well, my weekend was restorative and pargie. And you wanna know how I know that?

[Jackie]

Let me guess. Let me guess. How do I know? I feel like, you know, you had a restorative weekend when you didn't get out of your pajamas. Is that what happened to you? You guys, we just had to. We just recorded the first two minutes of this episode before we realized, like, we were having an audio issue. So we fixed it and started over. But that was the conversation.

[Olivia]

That was the conversation. She's like, I hope everyone had a restorative weekend. I was like, I didn't wanna know how. I did. And she racked her brain, and she

[Jackie]

didn't know I couldn possibly.

[Olivia]

And I said, because I didn't get out of my pajamas all weekend and the ones that I wore to sleep. So, like, I didn't leave my house. I got to, like, be cozy with Maxi all weekend. On Saturday, everybody came to me. So, like, things were busing, we played maj. We had a barbecue.

[Jackie]

Oh, there was, like, a little storm.

[Olivia]

There was a storm. We did a little bit of everything. What about our barbecue?

[Jackie]

The thing I like about spending time in Florida is that when it rains, I'm, like, immediately transported back to, like, summer camp because it's hot and it's raining and, you know, it just, like, needs to rain briefly so that it'll pass. But you get this temporary moment of, like, chilly, cozy vibes.

[Olivia]

We had to bring in our majesty table. Like, it was coming through the screen. The wind.

[Jackie]

Like, it was crazy. No, it was, like, kind of crazy weather.

[Olivia]

It was really cozy and sweet and.

[Jackie]

And then it's back, like, 20 minutes later.

[Olivia]

Then we were able to have our barbecue outside and then love barbecuing. Then we were back inside waiting for the rain again.

[Jackie]

The barbecue was. Let's talk about the food.

[Olivia]

The food was really good, actually. Like, I don't know. Yeah, the vibes were really good.

[Jackie]

No, the food was excellent except for the hamburger. So, yeah, like, Ben went to the grocery store, and Jackie's publix is like a kind of a bus in kosher section. So Ben just bought pre made kosher patties.

[Olivia]

The Allyship from Publix.

[Jackie]

So be it can't go unnoticed. Like the Allyship. Jackie then saw what Ben got and was like, listen, those pre made patties suck balls. But we already had them.

[Olivia]

He was like, no, it's just because you don't season them when you make them. Yeah, he did. Victim blame. I was like, oh, okay, yeah, maybe I'm. Maybe I'm just bad at them.

[Jackie]

We get pre made patties from our kosher grocer and they're like, better than any patty you can make yourself.

[Olivia]

This is not the kosher grocer.

[Jackie]

So we overestimated the Ally ship. The burgers were disgusting and terrible, but everything else was amazing. The camaraderie was amazing.

[Olivia]

Hot dogs. We should have just had hot dogs because that's all chicken. The chicken, kern, french fry, dairies.

[Jackie]

I just love a barbecue. It's so much work. But it's actually not because.

[Olivia]

No, because I told Ben, for this barbecue, whenever we have a barbecue, the people like, we can't agree on barbecue because it's so much work. And Olivia's prepping at her house and Ben wants to do like, start at 10am and eat at 1.

[Jackie]

And he wants to start like making dishes that he saw on Instagram. Did he tell you what he wanted to make but he didn't make?

[Olivia]

So I policed him the entire time that he was cooking. And we really kept it very tailored because I was like, ben, we don't have to have a barbecue that like makes us never want to have a barbecue again. No, we don't have to break up the family every time we have a barbecue.

[Jackie]

And Ben really takes advantage of the family rule. Like, if you cook, you don't have to clean, which is, I think, a fair rule. But I no longer think it's a fair rule because I think he takes advantage of it. So I was in charge of cleanup. But let me tell you, I was shocked, honey. I was in tears at how few I was doing dishes, how few dishes there were. That's also, you know, barbecuing. So underrated. It's just the grill, you know, there's no pots, there's no pans. You know, if you're a sweeper, highly recommend throwing a barbecue.

[Olivia]

So it was a very successful. And I feel like we'll do one again because we all had a pleasant experience.

[Jackie]

I don't know, maybe we should just take the W because Ben was sort of whispering about this dish he wanted to make what is it that he saw on Instagram and he wanted to try? It was like a barbecue themed. Ready? You're going to throw up a hot dog tartare.

[Olivia]

That's disgusting. Yeah, and I love a hot dog.

[Jackie]

But he saw a hot dog tartar. I was waiting for him to bring it out. I thought he made it.

[Olivia]

Did you enjoy his eggplant in lob now?

[Jackie]

Oh, my God. Okay, so Ben and I went to the farmers market on Saturday, which we vlogged, by the way. It's on the Patreon. People are like sort of saying it's like the next Anthony Bourdain, you know, whatever show he filmed.

[Olivia]

Which one have you is Anthony Ben, obviously.

[Jackie]

And I'm like the rude producer, like the pa. Like, I was like giving commentary the whole time. I. Ben and I both put on microphones and I forgot that like we were mic'd up the whole time. So I'm in the car, Ben's over here. I hear Ben talking to the lady from the produce stand. Like, it was so funny. And so we were. It was a small farmer's market. We hit all the stands and towards the end, honestly, I felt like a third wheel being there. Ben met the woman of his dreams. She was running a stand called Mediterranean Delight. I feel like it actually wasn't Mediterranean fare. It was like Persian. It was stuff I see on Shahs of the Valley, you know, Labneh and Baba Ganoush, you know, in Shahs of Sunset, Adam is like always making his. Is it tabouli or whatever?

[Olivia]

Tabouli or.

[Jackie]

But I can't remember tabouli or Baba Ghanoush and then whatever. They're making fun of him because it's like not even good. But it's like his thing. He like married someone person and makes tabooli. So I don't know what the fair was. And she was saying that the farmer was Jordanian and the cheese is from Lebanon. So I feel like it actually wasn't Mediterranean. It was more Middle Eastern. Whatever Ben bought, first of all, she gave him a four course meal of tasters. I just think she like, liked him. And I literally felt awkward being there. Like they were in love. Ben said it was the best food. I did buy a baklava. I know that's mediterranean. It was so good. Ben got like cheeses and oils and I don't know. And it's all stuff you leave out on the counter. Great. You know how much I love things on the counter. So, yeah, we vlogged it. How do we get Here.

[Olivia]

I don't know. I'm like, waiting for you said, did you enjoy his.

[Jackie]

All that to say? No, I didn't try anything. Cuz, you know, that is disgusting. It's like cheese sitting in oil on my counter. Doesn't even go in the fridge.

[Olivia]

Wall of cheese looks like matzo ball.

[Jackie]

Thank you. No, it was cheese.

[Olivia]

He made soup for his koji.

[Jackie]

No, no, he made. He didn't even make it. His mistress gave it to him. It was the craziest time at the farmers market. It was like, so drama, you know? Yeah. It was so fun, though. And actually, you should check out the vlog for a little surprise.

[Olivia]

I will.

[Jackie]

Then launched like a project.

[Olivia]

Ooh, are you going to yell at me about last night? Is there going to be a public vlogging?

[Jackie]

Okay, so I wanted to go to like, a parchy Sunday dinner. Thank you for reminding me. I have so much to tell you. I wanted to go to like, a party Sunday dinner, and everybody here tells me about this Chinese food place that, like, they all go to on Sundays, but it's like, kind of far. So I called Jackie. I was like, we're going to go to the Chinese place. And she's like, you know, it's like 40 minutes.

[Olivia]

You know, I saw what I said. I said, oh, nice. And you said, how far is it? I was like, probably 25. You asked how far? So I said, like, 35, 40 minutes.

[Jackie]

And then I looked on Google, it was 38. And then I was realizing that I had, like, eaten pretty healthy all day. And like, even on the drug, like, I can't control myself at Chinese food. So I was like, you know, let's pivot. So I asked my sister for a food recommendation.

[Olivia]

Big mistake. Yeah. I gave her the wreck of, like, a really great Asian place that's closer by that I've been to once a year.

[Jackie]

When I think Asian, I think sushi, Japanese, Chinese, fine. And I think, like, it's a.

[Olivia]

It, it.

[Jackie]

It's a cuisine that I like because it doesn't feel inaccessible to me. Like, yes, you can do it really fancy and high brow, but it's lots of rice and chicken that I love.

[Olivia]

As long as there's rice and chicken.

[Jackie]

I never even look at a menu. If I'm going to an Asian restaurant, whether it's Chinese, Japanese, like rice, I can figure it out. They have teriyaki. When I walked into this restaurant, I was like, wishing I had looked at the menu before because it was when she, the waitress was explaining, like, the fare to me. It was so elevated. It was fusion. It was shared tapas. I'm like, but tapas is Latin.

[Olivia]

It was just so fusion concept. But it's Latin, but it's a concept.

[Jackie]

It was so fusion. It was so inaccessible. I looked at the menu. I'm like, there's nothing. One thing for me on this meal.

[Olivia]

It wasn't side rice.

[Jackie]

They had all these different fusion fried rices, all that had pork and. And I was like, do you have, like, a fried rice veggie? She's like, yeah, we couldn't do, like, a vegetarian fried rice. And I will say that was the one thing I, like, kind of clung to. Ben was in heaven again. I felt like a third wheel with the waitress. She kept coming over being like, how is it? Like, Because.

[Olivia]

Well, Yeah. I want to ask, like, did he love it?

[Jackie]

Oh, my God, really good. Loved. Ruby was also like, oh, he loved it. No, he was sort of, like, close to bedtime, like, not having it. And so I was like, you know what? You enjoy your date with your waitress. I will go outside and walk him around. It was just. I left so hungry. I, like, wanted to kill you. Like, you don't know me. Oh. And the crazy thing is, it was, like, a cute little area. So we walked around afterwards looking for, you know, an ice cream spot. The restaurant across the street you should have recommended to me.

[Olivia]

That was like, I've never been there. I don't know. It.

[Jackie]

It looked just like a regular sushi restaurant. Like, very accessible. No fusion. It was very.

[Olivia]

The next time I ever and should do this. Having known yourself, like, how. I don't want to age you, but how old are you? How many years on this planet?

[Jackie]

I'm about 19.

[Olivia]

6. You should be looking at the menus before you go to restaurants because you are so picky.

[Jackie]

If you or Ben tell me to go somewhere, like the two people on this planet who are supposed to know me best, I don't expect you walking into a global fusion. Like, it's just not me.

[Olivia]

Okay, well, I. The place across the street, like I said, I got it 50% right. Yeah.

[Jackie]

The wrong 50. And I will be going to the place across the street.

[Olivia]

Okay. So you're hungry today.

[Jackie]

Emaciated.

[Olivia]

We need a party lunch.

[Jackie]

I wanted to talk about what's in this envelope.

[Olivia]

Oh, we have something important to do today because sort of businessman of the

[Jackie]

week, you know, we said that we're not gonna change Businessman of the week every week because then we're just sort of beholden. It becomes, like, this stupid Thing. But we've actually been right on schedule where every week we have a businessman that we need to feature.

[Olivia]

And it's an amazing opportunity for many reasons, to feature an amazing person.

[Jackie]

You know, a business.

[Olivia]

Shout out someone who's doing something that we didn't know that they were doing, we didn't know that was happening.

[Jackie]

And I'd like to shout out. It was a toaster who gave us this idea. You know, we always talk about our friend Bridget. Bridget. You know, it's so funny.

[Olivia]

I call her at Bridget.

[Jackie]

I call her at Bridget, too, because I don't know her last name because her username on Instagram is just Bridget, but it's Bridget. Ball it. To me, it's Bridget Barr because she started the bar. She's a queen for many reasons, but in the last year, she's documented her journey on social media, going through chemo. It's been like a really trying time. And she's always talking about her. Her husband's like, so therefore. And they just finished treatment and she was posting on her Instagram that she really wants to do something for her husband because he's been just so supportive and so amazing during this time. Like, literally put his whole life on hold for her. So she was like, I want to take you on a trip, yada, yada. And she shared that Mike actually does. Her husband doesn't want to go on a trip because he feels so behind. He's sort of like just put work completely to the side and going on a trip would just make him feel even more stress and even more behind. So she was like, but what can I do for you? And he was like, you know what? It would actually be really helpful if you could, like, share on your Instagram. She has, like a million followers, all female, a lot in her area. She lives in Texas. If you could just, like, share a little bit about my business on your Instagram, like maybe to get some more patients drama business. So he's a plastic surgeon. I actually know a couple of people who. Shannon Ford has posted that she got her upper bluff done. They've had amazing, amazing. He's like a very. I wouldn't tell anyone to just go to any plastic surgeon. Like, I know a couple of people who've gotten boobs, eyes, face, all the things. So having said all of that, our

[Olivia]

businessman of the week this week is Dr. Mike.

[Jackie]

Mr. Bridget.

[Olivia]

Mr. Bridget.

[Jackie]

We have his headshot printed.

[Olivia]

Oh, my God.

[Jackie]

Also, I just love him. Like, he is the standard for what a husband should be. He's so Cute. I love him.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

So sorry to the CEO of her maze. We sort of have like bigger gotten

[Olivia]

booted by Dr. Mike slash our husband. And if you are in the Dallas metro area and need any sort of plastic surgery or injectables, we recommend that you check out his practice.

[Jackie]

Yes, go ask Shannon Ford. She had the best, most amazing experience there, actually. She recovered at Bridge's house. I don't think they do that for all their patients. But if you're in the need for new breasts, new eyes, new lips, new

[Olivia]

face, whatever, maybe a little something, a little tinker.

[Jackie]

I mean cosmetic. Or maybe something like, you know, that's just bothered you your whole life and you haven't.

[Olivia]

Let this be the side consult.

[Jackie]

Look at him. Perfect. Our B.M. otw, Mike Chodo. Excuse me, Dr. Mike Chodo.

[Olivia]

Dr. Mike.

[Jackie]

I'm obsessed with Businessman of the Week because in all of our clips there's just like a guy right behind me. Like I'm obsessed with it.

[Olivia]

I like it too. And I also feel like it's a really great opportunity, like for, you know, to share some good news. It's very cause driven.

[Jackie]

We are extremely cause driven.

[Olivia]

And of course we are waiting for sponsorships. But before those come, like, I really like using it as a platform just to highlight someone who's doing something really great like that. It's giving some good news by John Krasinski.

[Jackie]

Oh my God. Maybe we'll sell for 100 mil.

[Olivia]

Maybe we will.

[Jackie]

Yeah. Last week we highlighted someone who refused to join Jeffrey Epstein's pedophilia ring. Slay the house down boots, Axel Dumois. And then before that we highlighted just a man doing his best who took

[Olivia]

a chance and the man who inspired Businessman of the Week. And that's Paul Salem, Maybe soon boyfriend of Nicole Kidman.

[Jackie]

Yes, I have heard that. Like, they're dating and that's what that weird article was like. Sort of a soft launch.

[Olivia]

Well, good. Yeah, I love that.

[Jackie]

What else should we talk about?

[Olivia]

I read the redheads book this weekend we are reading what Kind of Paradise By Janelle Brown and we're recording today and I didn't know what to expect, but the book dares to answer the question, what if the Unabomber had a daughter? That's what the book was. It was like fan. Not fan fiction. What's it called? Like Quentin Tarantino does it when it's like.

[Jackie]

No, it's sort of like fan fiction. It's like, like ide.

[Olivia]

Historical fantasy, I guess. Yeah, it's like the story kind of Pretty much the Unabomber. But his daughter is in the cabin with him and she's, you know, it's a coming of age novel. Really crazy, you know, I'm like, kind of obsessed with the Unabomber.

[Jackie]

I do know that.

[Olivia]

So I didn't mind taking a path down Unabomber way. But no, I enjoyed it, actually. It felt like so many books that I've already read, though. Like, you ever heard of Educated by Tara Westover? Do you ever hear that book?

[Jackie]

I've heard of it, yes.

[Olivia]

You've heard. Oh, it's really, really good. It felt like that. It felt like Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow, which was like a huge book for the book girlies, because it's all about, like, the. The invention of the Internet and like, gaming and whatnot.

[Jackie]

So I feel like now would be a good time to just like, share my truth that, like, I don't know, like, what the Yuda Bomber is.

[Olivia]

Okay. Can I.

[Jackie]

Is that, like, crazy?

[Olivia]

No, it's not. Because it happened in the 90s when you were like, a lot like you were living it. So no one taught you about it because it wasn't history to you, but you were too young to know what was going on.

[Jackie]

And I just feel like it's always Unab or this Unabomber that there's never been, like, the right time for me to share. Like, I don't know what the fuck that is or. Is it a person?

[Olivia]

Yeah, it's a person. It's a serial killer. His name is Ted.

[Jackie]

Oh, a serial killer.

[Olivia]

He's a serial killer because he was a Unabomber. He used to send packages to different people. He was like. He was an anarchist and he was like, really against, like, technology and advancement in progress. And he would send mailbombs in the mail to different, like, professors and people in, like, high up who are, like, making progress.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Olivia]

And studying these things. And it's called Unabomber because it was like universities and airline bomber. I don't know. He sent to airlines too. And it went on for like 20 years. And oh, my. They could not catch him.

[Jackie]

So scared.

[Olivia]

And then they did. And then they did in the 90s. You want to know how they caught him?

[Jackie]

I would love to know technology.

[Olivia]

So he said he sent a letter to the Washington Post in the New York Times saying, if you publish my manifesto, I will not kill again. So like, the FBI and this was. Had been like a global case. So they were like your movie. Yeah, it's a miniseries called Manhunt. Unabomber. I recommend It. And I read up on him last night because I was like, I wanted to.

[Jackie]

Is this gonna spoil it?

[Olivia]

No, no, no. You're not gonna watch it. It's just history.

[Jackie]

Like, I don't know. It kind of sounds like something. No, you're like, maybe. It sounds so enticing. Okay, go.

[Olivia]

I'm just playing a swirly.

[Jackie]

Go.

[Olivia]

Spoiler.

[Jackie]

Yeah, sure.

[Olivia]

They. He sent the letter to both of them saying, like, if you publish my manifesto, I will not kill anyone else. You know, they were, like, really torn at the whole country because, like, you

[Jackie]

know, you don't want to negotiate with terrorists, right?

[Olivia]

But, like, you don't want anyone else to die. And then this magazine, Penthouse, was like, we'll publish it.

[Jackie]

Penthouse?

[Olivia]

Yeah. And he was like, that's porno. Yeah. He was like, that's too unsavory. So I'll just kill one more if you guys are publishing it, Like. And so then the New York Times was like, okay, we'll publish it.

[Jackie]

I think that's right.

[Olivia]

So they published it, but also because they wanted to see if anybody reading it might recognize the language that he was using. And it turns out that his brother's wife was onto him and was like, this sounds like a letter that he wrote us once. Like, he's so crazy. He's been saying this stuff for years. And then the brother and his wife, they actually did a lot of.

[Jackie]

It's always the wife.

[Olivia]

They did a lot of due diligence before they officially turned him in. Like, they had people comparing his letters, like, is it a match? And they turned him in, and it was him.

[Jackie]

Okay, Now I feel like this is such an amazing story. Like, I'm script. Like, yeah. And I know people talk about the Unilever all the time, but I feel like it should be, like, a more famous story. Like, how did I not know what that is?

[Olivia]

I feel like people reference him a lot, but again, it's just like, JFK love story. It happened in the 90s. So we were. Yeah, we were old enough to be there, but young enough that we're not learning it in our history books. Maybe like kids nowadays do, but it was part of, like, a lot of, like, 90s crime that I only recently learned about. Like, Waco.

[Jackie]

Speaking of Waco. Oh, my God, I cannot believe you brought up Waco. I literally felt like Waco.

[Olivia]

What did you do, David?

[Jackie]

So where we're staying has a ceiling fan, and I love it. It also has a light. And it happened once before, but last night, twice. The ceiling fan must Be wired improperly. The light went on. Do you know what it's like to be woken up with a bright light above your head in the middle of the night? Waco. I was waking. It was. And it happened twice. I was in hell then. I couldn't go back to sleep. It was literally like what the FBI did to that cult.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Crazy.

[Olivia]

I literally felt like David Crash, Branch Vidian.

[Jackie]

I can't believe you brought up Waco. I was, like, thinking before the show

[Olivia]

all comes back to Waco.

[Jackie]

That actually is true.

[Olivia]

So, yeah, this, like, is, like, Waco oriented, which reminds me of Educated by Tara Westover, because there's also, like. It's her memoirs. She grew up, like, in a survivalist home, like, out in the.

[Jackie]

So did I. I mean, four sisters. Survivalist, you know?

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Like, you know, four sisters, one bathroom.

[Olivia]

Apocalyptic, literally. Yeah. I feel that that was us.

[Jackie]

What else can we chat about before we get into the stories?

[Olivia]

I did watch Redheads will come out this weekend. If you read the book or you're like, read it and read along with us.

[Jackie]

I did watch the Actor Awards last night, and I have a lot of negative things to say. Even though, you know, I hate to be negative. That's just my truth.

[Olivia]

Okay, well, we're gonna get into it. I think that's a story. Me. I think I chose them.

[Jackie]

She's so coy.

[Olivia]

And let's get into it, shall we? Without further ado to do, it is time for the past five stories that you do need to know.

[Jackie]

And the past five stories that you do need to know are brought to you by Vivrel. If you don't know Vivrel yet, you ain't living. Oh, Jackie's bag is from Vivrel.

[Olivia]

Hello to my goyard. That's on loan from Vivrel. Also sound off in the. Because I'm thinking. Because this is the beauty of Vil. It's like, borrow bags. You can swap them. I've got to try out the squar tote that. I was always wondering, is this for me? And it is. But now I'm wondering if I should go bigger.

[Jackie]

I do think you should go bigger.

[Olivia]

Different color. And I.

[Jackie]

No, I like the color.

[Olivia]

I can take that chance with Vivrel.

[Jackie]

So Vil is a members only club where you can borrow designer bags, jewelry, watches, even diamonds. So it's basically a rotating dream closet that you don't have to commit to and you also don't have to spend on. So the best part is that they have no return dates. You can keep a piece as long as you want or swap monthly if you're ready for something new. If you fall in love with something, you can also buy it straight from Vivrev Rel for way less than anywhere else. The most popular tier is the classique tier. It's 139amonth and it's by far the most popular, which really makes sense because the value you get is really wild. I have two, two Chanel bags that I'm borrowing from Virel right now that I adore. They're really trendy. I probably would never buy them, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to enjoy. Actually recommended Vivrel to Taylor's Trekker because she's a queen of like. She is very open about how she buys a lot of fake bags. I'm like, you know what? And she like spends a lot of money on them too. I'm like, girl, just give a real like, yeah, you're always swapping through bags, you're going on trips. And I feel like that was some of the best advice I ever gave her. I just want to say also, as

[Olivia]

someone who's been suffering late in life decision paralysis, you know, buying a new bag, making a big purchase like that, I'm like, is it right for me? I don't want to think about it for so long. I'd rather take it for a spin, take it for a test drive, see how it goes. That's what I love Vivrel for.

[Jackie]

If you'd like to do that, our referral code Toast will get you your first month of membership free. The code will also allow you to skip their very long wait list. So V I V R e l l e.com Our code is toast for your first month free. Today's episode is also brought to you by Thrive Market. And I have the honor of sitting down with Businesswoman of the Week, the chief Brand officer of Thrive Market, the number one customer for many, many years.

[Olivia]

I should change my Instagram. I brand officer of Thrive Market.

[Jackie]

I think they should pay you for that.

[Olivia]

See if like they even notice.

[Jackie]

Tell me why you love Thrive Market, a membership based grocery store where you can get wherever you're looking, get whatever you're looking for just by hopping on their app. Their membership breaks down to just $5 a month and it gives members access to weekly sales, personalized shopping with filters, auto ship, save free gifts, and peace of mind knowing there's no junk in any of the products that they carry.

[Olivia]

The amount of people in my personal life that I put on Prime Market, like anytime friends are like, especially for new mamas. And as you get into the food space and the snacks and how do we know and the ingredients, I'm like, just go to Thrive Market. You want pouches, you want teethers, like puffs, go to Thrive Market because everything there is going to be the best version of what's out there and you don't have to do all the legwork. It's seriously so amazing. And they also have like auto ship, like subscription. So I know what I like at this point because I'm very seasoned and I'm sort of out of the exploratory phase and more into like that my consistent buys so you can have them on auto ship. You don't have to remember to place your order. They show up at your door. You never run out of the cheddar bunnies. There's a check ready crisis.

[Jackie]

And it's everything from like cleaning products, snacks for the pantry, things for your pet.

[Olivia]

Ingredients.

[Jackie]

Yeah, like literally top to bottom, all

[Olivia]

your cooking ingredients and like that's such an easy thing to do to make sure you're having cleaner meals.

[Jackie]

If you're ready to make healthy swaps and become a member, join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com the toast that'll get you 30% off your first order plus a free 60 gift@thrive market.com the toast today's episode is also brought to you by Wetterspoon, the number one selling Manuka honey in the US Once you try it, you'll know why Manuka Honey is not your regular squeeze Bear honey. It's very elevated. And Wetter Spoon is one of the only USDA organic Manuka honey brands on the market. They make yummy little drops, lollipops, and the honey itself. Of course, I am not new to Manuka Honey. I learned about the benefits from wellness guru Kourtney Kardashian. I don't know if you guys have heard of her, but then I didn't know like, where to get it. Like it was very elevated and like kind of hard to get. And then Wetter Spoon started sponsoring our show. They sent this huge box of stuff to our house. We've gone through it all. Ben loves the sucking candy.

[Olivia]

Ben loves honey.

[Jackie]

He, my husband loves honey. And I feel like honey is we always are hearing about like the natural benefits of honey, especially Manuka honey. But the honey that we e like the grocery store is not that. And I love this brand. I love giving a spoonful of it to Myself, like when I'm not feeling good or like a little tickle in my throat. Especially being around the kids a lot recently.

[Olivia]

Blame the kids. I give it to the kids when they have a tickle in the throat. The kids love honey. We are a very honey household. I'll put it in everything to sweeten it up. We love Wetter Spoon because it's the best kind of honey.

[Jackie]

It's a natural prebiotic. It supports gut health and immunity. It coats and soothes your throat, which is great this time of year. It's non gmo. It's free of antibiotics and glyphosates. The texture is very thick and creamy. And you can get a taste of New Zealand sunshine by visiting wetter spoon.com. use our code toast20 at checkout for 20 off your order. Shop nationwide at Whole Foods, Amazon. That's wetter spoon.com. our code is toast 20 for 20 off your order of Wetter Spoons. Manuka Honey.

[Olivia]

I'm very passionate about our brands today.

[Jackie]

I could tell.

[Olivia]

I love that I have another brand that I'm passionate about that I'll let you guys know about.

[Jackie]

Is it chopmerch.com?

[Olivia]

no.

[Jackie]

Oh, oh, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Olivia]

In the next break.

[Jackie]

In the next break.

[Olivia]

Stay tuned.

[Jackie]

Yeah. Jackie kind of has a big announcement of your project.

[Olivia]

Our first story, the actors awards were on Netflix last night. We've got the big winners, the big losers. Michael B. Jordan bested Timothee Chalamet.

[Jackie]

Kind of a big deal.

[Olivia]

The red carpet was par. Delicious definitions.

[Jackie]

It was very high quality. I really liked Netflix's. You know, I think this is the first award show they've done. And I thought it was very high brow. The carpet looked gorgeous. The live stream was pretty seamless. I loved having no commercials like that. I've definitely felt like I was living in the future. They do say about the SAG Awards because it is like a peer voted. I have a hair stuck in my lipstick. Do you see it? And I can't get it.

[Olivia]

See it? I think, I think you just got it by. By bumping your mic.

[Jackie]

It's like a peer voted award which people, you know, say means more and

[Olivia]

you know, because it's presented by SAG aftra.

[Jackie]

Right. And you're. You won because your peers think that you did a great job, your fellow members. But they also say it kind of has no bearing on Oscars because it's peer voted. So take that with, like the winners with a. With a grain of salt. I think some people, like, want to win it. But they don't, like, get. Get down on their hopes of an Oscar because of it.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Kristen Bell was a host.

[Olivia]

How did she do? She.

[Jackie]

Ariana. To boast the. Out of the intro, I'm like, surprise. Like, how we all came for Ariana DeBose. I couldn't believe there weren't more people. She did, like, one of the worst. Her singing was good, but it was one of those things where, thank God I had the captions on because I had no idea what she was saying. She was talking about everybody's names and they kept cutting to the person. It was literally Ariana DeBose 2.0. I think Ariana's was better all about, like, stage names. And I honestly didn't understand it. And I just feel like, have we learned to. Quite literally nothing but. And a lot of her, like, sketches were annoying and, like, very hosty, but

[Olivia]

good, like, inoffensive and inoffensive.

[Jackie]

So the thing about the SAG Awards, it's like, it's very insider. So they do that thing at the beginning, which I adore, which is you. They cut to a couple of different actors, they tell a funny story, and then they end it with, I am an actor. They had Kristen Wiig, they had Kate Hudson. They had. I like, I really like that shtick. It's, like, very funny and it's well written. I feel like it's like, snle vibes. But a lot of the event feels, like, very insider because it's like, for Hollywood people, it's really like, it's televised. But I feel like up until recently, like, it's not for the audience, it's

[Olivia]

for, like, the industry. Yeah.

[Jackie]

So a lot of it just felt like they were all having so much fun, like, with each other. I'm like, why am I watching this? But I feel like the production level was really there. And I appreciated, like, Netflix's first stab at an award show. I would not, I don't think, have Kristen Bell hosted again. I think that last year she did it and it was really well received. And that was before it became the Actor Awards, like, the. The rebrand. So I think they wanted, like, for continuity to help people understand. But I do think they could try someone new. Yeah, they had, like, a ping pong tournament with Ted Danson. Like, it was really silly.

[Olivia]

Understood. And Dax Shepard wasn't there because he was getting a colonoscopy.

[Jackie]

Like, one thing about Dax Shepard is he's gonna make everything about himself, and I love that.

[Olivia]

Yeah. He posted like, a. A text From I guess his doctor about, like his schedule. Schedule. Just to prove why he wasn't there. As if there's not like trouble in paradise, which I don't think anyone.

[Jackie]

I don't think.

[Olivia]

I think that there is, but that is weird. It's a big night for your wife. Like, move your colonoscopy. They're pretty routine.

[Jackie]

Right, Agreed.

[Olivia]

Yeah, yeah. You're like, you're a big star. Like, I'm sure you get preference in your colonoscopy office.

[Jackie]

The award for, I think, supporting actress in a comedy show did go to Catherine o' Hara posthumously.

[Olivia]

Oh.

[Jackie]

Which was really sweet. Everybody stood up and she is in the studio, which is the Seth Rogen show, which kind of swept. Seth won and then he was the one who accepted the award on Katherine's behalf. And I don't, like, love Seth Rogen and I felt like he was not the right person to accept it, but he did give a really lovely speech about like the last couple of months. And this is like the last project she worked on and how to honor her legacy. So I actually, I wanted to be a hater, but it was very sweet. His show swept. I haven't seen the show. It kind of made me want to see it because I didn't realize Catherine o' Hara was in it, much like Cynthia Revo. I didn't know that was happening.

[Olivia]

Do you want to hear the other women?

[Jackie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Olivia]

So the big outstanding performance by cast in a motion picture. So best picture went to Sinners.

[Jackie]

Yes. Sinners has kind of been. Been like snubbed.

[Olivia]

Snubbed, but like, I don't know anything about Sinners. Like, seriously, not one thing. Except like Michael B. Jordan and Haley Seinfeld are in it.

[Jackie]

Yeah, Michael B. Jordan. It's very like Parent Trap. He plays like himself twice, you know.

[Olivia]

And then someone sent me a clip.

[Jackie]

A clip?

[Olivia]

Yeah, there was a clip going. I haven't seen.

[Jackie]

I haven't seen the movie, except I've seen a 30 second clip.

[Olivia]

And I just assumed, like, it's a good movie. You know, it's getting all this buzz. You just like assume. It's really great. And I saw this clip that was like some of the worst writing.

[Jackie]

It was Haley Seinfeld, like, talking about getting. No, don't even.

[Olivia]

It was so bad. It was kind of like when Amelia Perez clips were going viral for how outrageous they were. The dialogue, penis to vagina, vagina to penis. And it's like, that's an award winning,

[Jackie]

literally Oscar winning song.

[Olivia]

So that was what my Experience was with sinners. Now, I don't know about the rest of the movie outside of like the 30 seconds that I saw, but it did not bode well.

[Jackie]

I've heard that the movie is incredible and that Michael B. Jordan is amazing.

[Olivia]

How is that possible?

[Jackie]

I don't know. He keeps getting.

[Olivia]

He keeps losing context.

[Jackie]

Yeah, right.

[Olivia]

I'll just go with context.

[Jackie]

He keeps losing to Timothy, so I'm

[Olivia]

sure he was excited. He won outstanding performance by male actor. So best actor, female actor went to Jesse Buckley for Hamnet. Then supporting male actor went to Sean Penn. One battle after another.

[Jackie]

He was not there.

[Olivia]

Supporting actress.

[Jackie]

A lot of people weren't there.

[Olivia]

By the way, Amy Madigan in Weapons.

[Jackie]

The TV shows is like more. Yeah.

[Olivia]

Best drama, the Pit. You must have been happy to see that.

[Jackie]

Noah Wiley one. My boyfriend.

[Olivia]

Adam Sandler's handsome cousin.

[Jackie]

What?

[Olivia]

We just talked about this.

[Jackie]

Are you sure?

[Olivia]

No, no, I'm just saying, like, he looks like Adam Sandler. Handsome cousin.

[Jackie]

They're both Jewish. I thought they were actually cousins. They.

[Olivia]

They probably are.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Like, trace the lineage at all.

[Jackie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Olivia]

But he looks like him.

[Jackie]

He was wearing the craziest outfit. Like, it was just a black tuxedo.

[Olivia]

Yeah. I'm sorry. This looks like Adam Sandler every time I see him.

[Jackie]

That's really generous. Adam Sandler.

[Olivia]

Because also, I don't watch the show, so I'm not so familiar with his face. So when I see him, like at a right angle. Adam Sandler.

[Jackie]

Not at all. Also, it's kind of like people felt

[Olivia]

that call last time I made it.

[Jackie]

It's the new gen. Game of Thrones. Remember how Game of Thrones, everybody used to show up to award shows and you'd be like, seriously, who is that? They're all doctors. There's not a stitch of makeup in the show. Not a blow dry. They look like rats. You're supposed to be like this 12 hour shift, like the World Force. When I saw some of them, like, stunting, like, what's his name, the blonde one? Whitaker. I. He was like, wearing a Luke. I was like, excuse me. Langdon was wearing a kilt. I was like, okay, slay Langdon. Like, it was shocking. It was reminded me of Game of Thrones where you'd have to be like, yeah, who was that in the show again? Yeah, because they look so glam. They all showed up and showed out. I didn't realize that, like, the cast was nominated. So literally everyone came.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Then female actress in a drama. Kerry Russell, the Diplomat.

[Jackie]

I don't know Kerry Russell. I just feel like her peers love her and that's why she won. Not that she's bad and.

[Olivia]

Like the Diplomat. Yeah.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

It's like the new Scandal.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

But Parker Posey was nominated for White Lotus.

[Jackie]

Yeah. Overlooked.

[Olivia]

I do feel like she was overlooked a little bit, but I don't watch Diplomat. I know people love it. So, like, don't come for me. Seriously. I don't give a shit about. Yeah, right.

[Jackie]

I have no horse in this race. Leave me alone.

[Olivia]

Comedy series. Went to the studio. Must be super funny.

[Jackie]

I know. I kind of feel like I need to watch it.

[Olivia]

No, I don't.

[Jackie]

I just really don't like Seth Rogen.

[Olivia]

And, like, he.

[Jackie]

It's his show. He created it. He's a star. Like, I don't think I can watch it.

[Olivia]

All about Seth.

[Jackie]

Yeah, I'm good. Like, I can.

[Olivia]

So he won best male actor in a comedy series. Congrats. Female actress went to Catherine o'. Hara. Male actor in a television movie or limited series. Owen Cooper. Adolescence.

[Jackie]

He was not there.

[Olivia]

I love a limited series. That was like.

[Jackie]

That was like Queen's Gambit. The best. Literally the best show ever made.

[Olivia]

Queen's Gambit is the template for many series.

[Jackie]

Chernobyl.

[Olivia]

Chernobyl.

[Jackie]

I love a miniseries. I totally agree. And I think in this day and age, a lot of things start out as miniseries, and they do, like, second and third seasons, and it ruins them.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Like, big little eyes.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Would have been, like, perfect.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

And I know people loved it. And they would never agree with me, and no one would ever. They were like, no, you're wrong. No. Season one was amazing.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Michelle Williams dying for sex. I think she was surprised to win.

[Jackie]

I was surprised to see her there.

[Olivia]

I didn't.

[Jackie]

I didn't know that was happening much. Like, I said, the. Are you.

[Olivia]

Oh, yeah. But she's always a good.

[Jackie]

You know, she's a classic. Like, she's like. Yeah.

[Olivia]

Michelle Williams.

[Jackie]

Oh, I caught up on Love Story. Did you?

[Olivia]

No, I'm still logged out of Hulu, and I had to read for Redhead. Okay.

[Jackie]

I just want to say I stand by what I'm. What I said. And it's nice to see other people having the same experience as me. The guy who's JFK is abhorrent. He's one of the worst actors of all time.

[Olivia]

He's getting, like, insane accolades.

[Jackie]

No, he's not.

[Olivia]

Where'd you find this guy?

[Jackie]

Because of the resemblance. And I feel like they really were like. And I was reading a Ryan Murphy interview About how they literally almost postponed the production because they could not find. They wanted a nobody. He said a lot of pre established actors wanted to play the role and they were hell bent on finding someone new, discovering someone new, and they were watching thousands of tapes and thousands of headshots and they finally found this guy a month before production. They had Sarah Pigeon, always as Carolyn. She was always a Carolyn. And they couldn't find jfk. And I feel like they just got really sidetracked by his. Love his looks because he really does look very similar. And I saw a clip on Tick Tock today from a podcast talking about it. And it was like these really, like, smart, like, theater, like, people, and they had the best takes. And I was agreeing with everything they're saying. Like, first of all, like, JFK was that guy, right? Like, he was so sure of himself when you see him in press conferences, like, he's very smart. He knows exactly who he is. And like in the show, he's giving like, joke.

[Olivia]

Well, that's Ryan Murphy's fault then.

[Jackie]

But it's like they're recreating a lot of the clothing, Right? Like when we saw the park fight. Yeah, it was the same.

[Olivia]

By the way, I was sending that to you because I couldn't believe that they fought in public.

[Jackie]

Like, oh, yeah. The first time I saw it, like, I was shocked.

[Olivia]

That's insane.

[Jackie]

So it, it was in this episode. Okay, so they're wearing the same exact outfits. They're copying a lot of the outfits exactly, which I like. So when she walked out of her apartment in that outfit, I'm like, oh, they're about to fight in the park. Like, I knew. And it's the girl in this Tick Tock was saying, like, no, literally all the clothes are wearing him. He looks like so silly in all of us. And JFK was known for, like, wearing the craziest things, but he was just this like, effortlessly cool guy that you didn't even think twice about what he was wearing, even though it was like, nutty as hell. Like, he wore his belt, his bike lock is a belt all the time. Like, this guy could never, like. I'm sorry, I think he's terrible.

[Olivia]

I haven't noticed. I haven't had that experience. And I've been seeing like, I guess no one's talking about the acting. Everyone's just talking about, like, the two of them.

[Jackie]

They're talking about Carolyn and JFK themselves.

[Olivia]

Yeah. And everyone's sort of having a renaissance with them.

[Jackie]

Yeah. And that's what I was saying. When I first recapped the show, it's like, the show is amazing because this

[Olivia]

is the most fascinating story down a rabbit hole.

[Jackie]

And weirdly enough, even though it was so big at the time, I think a lot of people, myself included, like,

[Olivia]

don't know the lore because it's 90s, right? So the 90s are blindsided. It was ripe for people born in the 90s.

[Jackie]

It was ripe for recreation, and it was never going to fail. Especially Sarah. Pigeon is so gorgeous. Like, he stinks. Sorry. We're being blinded by the fabulousness of it all. He stinks. I haven't had a baby over the weekend. Congrats.

[Olivia]

And I think that if he's coming off as a weenie, as you had said, and, you know, loser energy, even, like, why didn't he ever break up with Daryl? Like, he didn't like her.

[Jackie]

Oh. And in real life, it was so much worse.

[Olivia]

Like, why did he always have to wait for her to break up with him? Why couldn't he just, like, take a stand? Also? He's, like, leaning on Carolyn for, like, two years.

[Jackie]

And it's worse than that.

[Olivia]

You know, like, make a choice. But that if that's what happened, like, that's not on the actor.

[Jackie]

In real life, you got to the part with the letter, right?

[Olivia]

What letter?

[Jackie]

Somebody leaves a letter in his bag of football.

[Olivia]

No.

[Jackie]

What the hell? Have you watched how many episodes?

[Olivia]

Three episodes. And then I got locked out. Talk to.

[Jackie]

Okay, well, in real. In the real world, he got the letter, confronted her with it, like, in public at a restaurant, threw it at her, and then they broke up for a year. And in that year, he got back with Daryl Hanna, like, this is the man.

[Olivia]

But you keep saying he was that guy.

[Jackie]

So. So he was.

[Olivia]

But, like, he did those things. Yeah.

[Jackie]

Because you could. Only guys like that can do that.

[Olivia]

No.

[Jackie]

And get away with it and still

[Olivia]

be a heartthrob, like, famous face in the world. You can't walk out of your apartment without paparazzi. We don't nothing like, we ever seen. And you're fighting in public also.

[Jackie]

I want to say one more thing. Are you following Jack Schlossberg? He's, like, running for Congress now. I feel like he's like. He's, like, kind of running with the momentum of the show.

[Olivia]

It's.

[Jackie]

The time is so. It's intentional. It's intentional. No, it's intentional. Like, there's a resurgence of people. Like, oh, my God, that was such a better time. I wish we had the Kennedy dynasty. And he's running for Congress. And like, I'm seeing all these videos of him. He's like hosting meet and greets at like diners with real New Yorkers or whatever. And like, it's giving credit.

[Olivia]

And she. That's really crazy. Also was jfk. Like, is the insinuation that he was like, gonna run for president one day.

[Jackie]

You have to watch the show. I can't talk to you.

[Olivia]

I don't really like. The thing is, I don't mind the spoilers.

[Jackie]

So the thing is we never will never know. Right. Because he, spoiler alert, passed away.

[Olivia]

But yeah, he was on the track ag Law school. Yeah.

[Jackie]

Even though in the show when he asks her to marry him, she doesn't give an answer yet. And she was like, I need to know what I'm getting. Like, you're so spur of the moment. Like, I need to know. Like, do you plan on running for president one day? And he says no.

[Olivia]

It's like you can't say yes.

[Jackie]

Really. Like, she was like, I need to.

[Olivia]

Like, if you say then it won't come true.

[Jackie]

Right, right, right, right.

[Olivia]

Can't tell anyone.

[Jackie]

But I don't know. I wasn't alive during that time. So I don't know, like, how. Because the show was like a 10 year period. So I don't know, like when he died, like, what his situation was.

[Olivia]

Yeah. And I was just thinking, just because, like your dad was president doesn't mean, like, we haven't had anyone except for.

[Jackie]

No. The Bushes.

[Olivia]

The Bushes.

[Jackie]

That was like an era. It was the Bush era too. Like where kind of America was obsessed with dynasties.

[Olivia]

We, like, we were ready to elect someone's son.

[Jackie]

Right. George H. Dubs. George Dubs.

[Olivia]

It's the only one.

[Jackie]

Yeah, but it was like in the era of the Kennedys and the Bushes. The Bushes are, I feel like our only remaining dynasty. And then Jeb. Jeb. Jenna Bush.

[Olivia]

Jenna, of course.

[Jackie]

Yeah. We forget about the Bushes.

[Olivia]

We forget about Jem.

[Jackie]

They're like akin most to the Kennedys, kind of where there's like Lauren Bush. Lauren.

[Olivia]

Lauren, yeah. Ralph Lauren. Is that who that is?

[Jackie]

Yeah. She married Ralph Lauren's son, David Lauren, and her name is Lauren Bush. She's not Jen, but we thought. I thought she was Jenna's sister, but she's not. But she is a Bush.

[Olivia]

Okay.

[Jackie]

Barbara, you know, they're everywhere.

[Olivia]

Barbara.

[Jackie]

I don't know another family like that alive right now. Hold on.

[Olivia]

Is Lauren Bush really related to President Bush? Yes, yes, she is.

[Jackie]

And there's also another Bush brother, but I Feel like he's kind of a loser. Like, nobody knows his name.

[Olivia]

That could be Lauren Bush's dad, Neil Bush.

[Jackie]

I wouldn't know.

[Olivia]

But, like, you know, he probably has inner peace.

[Jackie]

And I just want to say JFK Jr such an EPO baby. And I feel like they're leading with that.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

They're like. But. But I mean, more so, like, in his attitude. Right. Like, I don't know who I am. Like, more than just my family living

[Olivia]

in the shadow right there of a great man. Seriously, there's no way to not be living in the shadow.

[Jackie]

Yeah. You know, but that was back when America, like, lived for nepotism, you know, Those are the days.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Now it's like a curse. Like a scarlet letter. People hide their parents. Like, you're not allowed to talk about it in an interview. Ben Platt.

[Olivia]

But I think we should judge the man.

[Jackie]

I agree.

[Olivia]

What about that. That beautiful Nepo? Or not Nepo.

[Jackie]

To Nepo or not to Nepo. That is the question.

[Olivia]

Are you ready for our next story? Oh, my God. It's only our second story.

[Jackie]

Yeah, sorry, sorry.

[Olivia]

Harry Styles opened the Brit Awards with a performance of Aperture. And the Brit Awards were this weekend.

[Jackie]

Yes, the Brit Awards. Like, I don't live in Britain, so, like, I don't understand their significance, but it's akin to the Grammys. It's like a really big deal. I saw a bunch of news. I saw Olivia Dean performing. I saw Somber performing. Like, it was very, like, the same sort of people.

[Olivia]

Also, how come I had to find out for myself and no one told me that Olivia Dean has a song called love you bye. Okay, Love you bye.

[Jackie]

Didn't mean to pick a fight. That's so true.

[Olivia]

That's my theme song.

[Jackie]

I don't think I knew that that was the name of the song. I just thought it was, like, a lyric.

[Olivia]

No, it's love you by.

[Jackie]

Yeah, like, if you had Raya, that would be the song that plays on your. Or I guess, like, MySpace. So, yes, the Brit Awards were this weekend. Harry Styles opened the show with a performance of his. His flop song Aperture and. I'm kidding. Oh, and also, we need to talk about so funny. Harry Styles went on Royal Court.

[Olivia]

Yes. So, so summing up two questions that we have from last week.

[Jackie]

Where is Harry Styles? Why isn't he doing press? And what is this Britney Broski show? Apparently it's, like, very popular with Gen Z, and I was, like, showing my age by not knowing it. I hadn't heard of it literally until two days later. Harry Styles, they have, like, a relationship. She's like, a very public number one fan and they've met a couple of times. I think he likes a lot of her content. He thinks she's very funny. And so when it came time for him to leave the house and do prep somewhere safe, he went to Royal Court and he talked about his hair plugs. So, you know, there's been, like, it's pretty much confirmed that he got plugs because a couple of years ago, his hairline was, like, very much receding on the sides. Then he had, like, a buzz era, which you have to have when you get plugs. You have to buzz your hair. He was wearing a lot of hats and then he returned with, like, a perfectly straight, full hairline. So it's, like, confirmed. We don't even, like, need him to talk about it. He was doing the interview with Britney and she was like, are those your real teeth or something? Like, as a joke? He didn't. Wasn't expected to answer. And he was like, yeah. This hairline, though, just pretty much confirming that, like, he got plugs, which I love. Like, normalize, like, getting plugs.

[Olivia]

No, I feel like that's why he doesn't. He wasn't doing press because it's like.

[Jackie]

But the timeline of the plugs, it's like the plugs have been settled now for, like, two, three.

[Olivia]

When you do these shows, like, you really do have to, like, open up, be authentic, and you can't, like, come on and with a new head of hair and, like, like, not talk about it. So I understand why, like, maybe he's like, that's not for me. And the thing is, like, I don't need to know that Harry Styles got hair plugs confirmed. It sort of ruins the mystique.

[Jackie]

Yeah, I just feel like a lot

[Olivia]

of, like, you can say, oh, no, he's supernatural. His hairline just grew back.

[Jackie]

So when Harry Styles performed at the Brit Awards, I saw the comments and it was all like, oh, sorry, Benson Boone, your time is over. I feel like in the time that Harry's been gone, a lot of, like, male pop divas, like, have sort of come on the scene. Benson Boone being one of them, Somber being one of them, model role model being one of them. And I do feel like there isn't. You know, we say with the pop divas, like, there's room for them all. For the male pop divas, like, there's actually not. No, there can only be so many. And I feel like Harry's kind of like, on the Balls of his ass a little bit.

[Olivia]

He is a little bit aperture.

[Jackie]

And that's why he had to like, kind of debase himself at the Brits by doing a TikTok dance. And now this is a thing that I've seen a lot that's really pissing me off that, like, you know, a key way to get your song off the ground is have a viral dance, go along with it. And you can't really manufacture that. It just happens when it happens. There's no rhyme or reason why a song gets chosen. It's literally a teenage girl in her room doing the dance and it takes off. Like, it's really very natural.

[Olivia]

A little bit, though. You can manufacture it when you're a big enough artist.

[Jackie]

So now I see big artists manufacturing Taylor and it's so cringe. So when Taylor, what do you think

[Olivia]

that was not a good bit.

[Jackie]

100 on the land, that one.

[Olivia]

When.

[Jackie]

When I watched the music video, I was like, oh, she's manufacturing a TikTok dance. It's the perfect time. It was like 11 seconds. It was the best part of the song. It's three girls dancing. Like, it was so obvious to me that it was. Was trying to be manufactured. Now it took off hugely that it's not embarrassing or cringe because it worked. When I saw Harry on the awards doing like a dance that he's never done, I was like, okay, trying for Tik Tok.

[Olivia]

Was trying to be on Tik Tok,

[Jackie]

of course, like me recreating the Harry Styles dance. And then, like, it just becomes a thing because the song didn't take off on Tik Tok. That's what I was saying last week. And in this day and age for this, like, genre of music and this generation of people listening, like, if your song doesn't take off on Tik Tok, your song doesn't take off, period.

[Olivia]

But it could have taken off in another way with a different trend of like.

[Jackie]

Of course. But he's trying the dance and that's like the most effective way.

[Olivia]

Yeah, well, this is like a second stab at virality. The first one could have, you know, Daisies didn't have a dance and it's all over Tick Tock. Justin Bieber.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Yes, yes. Cultural.

[Jackie]

That is true. But it was all over Tick Tock. You have to be on Tick Tock.

[Olivia]

I'm saying, like,

[Jackie]

there are ways to do it outside of a dance. Dancing is the most obvious.

[Olivia]

Yeah. And now he's doing that. When I saw, honestly, when I saw the little clip of him dancing. Like, I didn't feel red flags. Like, I thought he was just having fun.

[Jackie]

Oh, no. To me, it was so manufactured virality.

[Olivia]

And to me, I, like, really, I don't know why. I feel like he's very

[Jackie]

scrupled, like,

[Olivia]

above that and just above doing things that he doesn't want to do. Putting out music he doesn't want to put out. Because if he was, like, he would stay in one direction, like, you know, be part of that bop.

[Jackie]

Yeah, I'm sure they would love that.

[Olivia]

So, like, I feel like he's very scrupled in his artisticness and, like, no one can be like, harry, you have to do this or you won't get played on the radio. He's like, so I won't get played on radio. So when I see him, like, doing something silly goofy, I'm like, oh, he felt silly goofy.

[Jackie]

Okay, so that's interesting. I think that also, and I think that's why, like, he released this random song with, like, this random cover art and this confusing album cover and did press from his couch. And then I feel like the result

[Olivia]

didn't yield, like, okay, we.

[Jackie]

I think he was used to, like, before he took his big break, like, he could have. Could have done anything, and he'd have to try. It was just popular, like, Taylor Swift level. Like, you could release anything without any promo. And then he released this big song, and it didn't have the legs. And so now I feel like he's

[Olivia]

like, listen to the marketing alternative measures.

[Jackie]

Yeah, this is my theory on this all.

[Olivia]

I agree with you. That's how it feels. And I just want to say, like, I kind of like that because I feel like this happens to women all the time, and they, like, can never take a breath. And he thinks he can just, like,

[Jackie]

never take a break.

[Olivia]

You want to be in the pop diva space. Like, you think you can phone it in. They never phone it.

[Jackie]

Oh, my God. Zara Larson's out here, like, working harder than anyone in this business to get herself out of the Kiosis. Them.

[Olivia]

Everyone. Yeah, everyone.

[Jackie]

And they talk all the time about how, like, they. It ruins their lives that they can't take break. They can't have, like, normal relationships. They can't get pregnant because, like, the time that it were to require you to take off is you're. You're forgotten about, especially after you turn 30, as Taylor very pointly pointed out in her documentary.

[Olivia]

So I'm just glad that it's equal for all genders.

[Jackie]

Agreed.

[Olivia]

Based on gender.

[Jackie]

Exactly.

[Olivia]

Based on Gender. So that's the Brit Awards recap.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Next, Tom Holland and Zendaya are married, says her stylist Law Roach. So Law Roach revealed on the Actors Awards red carpet that the wedding has already happened. You missed it, the reporter said. Is that true? To which Roach laughed and confirmed, it's very true.

[Jackie]

Now everyone's like, I can't believe Law would go behind Zendaya's back. Until one thing about Law Roach, when he said something about Zendaya, it's been cleared.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Zendaya doesn't give a About the public. Like, that's why she's so cool. Like, and that's why she was able to get married without anyone knowing. Like, she doesn't do it for the fans. She's in love with her man, and,

[Olivia]

like, that's all that matters.

[Jackie]

So the fact that Law shared it, like, Zendaya probably just, like, wanted it out in, like, the least big deal of a way. Like, if she didn't interview, like. No, just Law telling everyone her business or her and Law had a falling out and this is his way of getting back at her.

[Olivia]

Or they're not married. Law's joking.

[Jackie]

Virgin.

[Olivia]

And he's throwing the scent off. Off. Now people won't be on wedding watch because, like, is he joking? It's kind of jokey.

[Jackie]

The thing about Zendaya, like I just said, she doesn't give a fuck. Like, she wouldn't come up with a plan to divert the public, you know?

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

She doesn't care about the public unless

[Olivia]

they just got married, like, very. It's not like there was a big wedding.

[Jackie]

His family, her family in Law. And she needed a dress. So she asked Law.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Well, regardless, I believe that they're married

[Jackie]

and I believe that this is her way of announcing it in, like, a not big deal type of way, because she's not like, a big deal type of girl. Girl.

[Olivia]

It's beautiful.

[Jackie]

It's beautiful. I love people who, like, love being private, you know? And, like, everybody says they want their privacy and then they go get paparazzi when, you know, the big ones, Zendaya included, has proven you can get away with not being paparazzi. I don't see paparazzi pictures of Beyonce, and when I see paparazzi pictures of Taylor Swift, it's because she wants us to, because she could.

[Olivia]

I don't feel like all of them

[Jackie]

in New York, like, you can't get away with it. No.

[Olivia]

But, like, when she's always getting on her plane, like, she didn't Call them there.

[Jackie]

No, but the umbrellas, like, you cannot ride.

[Olivia]

I. Oh, my God. But it's like. So they still get her through the umbrellas? Like.

[Jackie]

No, no, they get her feet, like, literally at her purse.

[Olivia]

At a certain point, she can walk from her car to the plane without umbrellas. And it doesn't mean she doesn't want privacy.

[Jackie]

Okay, but like, the plane could be in the hangar and she could board in the hangar. Like, I'm just saying, like, she wanted to be seen.

[Olivia]

I don't.

[Jackie]

She wanted people to know she was leaving X destination. Like there's a reason.

[Olivia]

But they saw her. They know. They track her plane.

[Jackie]

But Taylor flies all the time and we don't see all the pictures. She wants us to know.

[Olivia]

You think she called them to the airport court?

[Jackie]

No, I think she knows that they're always going to be there. So if she wanted to get away unscathed, like, she, you know, boards in the hangar. That's what those hangers are for, you know? And you know, Taylor actually owns a couple of hangers. It's like a little business side venture of hers.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

In Nashville.

[Olivia]

I don't know.

[Jackie]

I feel like all that to say you can evade public paparazzi. You can evade that if you want to. And Zendaya just like does it so successfully that it makes you realize, like everybody else who claims they want privacy, like, you don't.

[Olivia]

Yeah. You don't want it as bad as India.

[Jackie]

Right. Because it is possible. It's hard, but it's possible. And if the most famous women in the world can do it like this, nobody can.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Yeah. Are you ready for our next story?

[Jackie]

If it's our next story that's brought to you by Unreal, one of our new sponsors, but not a new brand in our pantries.

[Olivia]

Unreal sponsored our mahjong game last night.

[Jackie]

Oh, my God. Unreal. Every time I try one of their new snacks, I got hooked on the peanut butter cups. And every time I try something new last night I had like the little hard candy. So basically they're a candy brand chocolate gem that's all about candy nostalgia. So, like whatever your favorite candy was growing up, Unreal is reinventing nostalgic chocolate classics with only the good stuff. They use simple ingredients, way less sugar to deliver craveable, mind blowing tastes that come in real ingredients, not overly processed sugar. So if you have a bad snack habit during the day, Unreal has really craveable snacks that you'll love for every snack break. They're committed to making products with way less sugar, simple ingredients, never anything that doesn't taste truly delicious. They've spent over a decade reinventing nostalgic chocolate classics basics way with only the good stuff proving that better for you can also taste way better. Everything on real makes is fair trade, certified, gluten free, non GMO and kosher. They use zero artificial preservatives, flavors or colors. And most of all, their products are vegan too. So you can find Unreal products anywhere that cravings hit, including Whole Foods, Target, Costco and other grocery stores. And as a special offer for our listeners, go to their website unrealsnacks.com toast to get $2 off a bag of Unreal, terms and conditions apply. Again, you can shop Target, Costco, Whole Foods and other grocery stores or their website unrealsnacks.com toast and that link will get you $2 off a bag of Unreal. Today's episode of the Toast is also brought to you by stamps.com it's staggering to this very day how many small business owners are still making trips to the post office or stuck with a very expensive postage meter lease. It's 2026, not 1926. So mail and ship when and how you want with stamps.com with stamps.com you can send from your computer or phone 24. 7. There's no long lines, no low supplies. They're open at any time. Plus you can print postage on demand and get up to 90% off carrier rates like FedEx, UPS and USPS. Yes, you can schedule carrier pickups right from your door, get carrier compliant labels every time so there are no errors, no rejected mail, no wasted trips. It's perfect for your business to send certified mail. You can get document tracking to confirm delivery, analytics to make sure you know exactly what you've sent, how much you've spent. For almost 30 years, millions of customers have relied on stamps.com to make mailing and shipping faster. And so simple. So whether you ship out a lot of product or whether you have a business partner who lives in Florida and you are stuck in New York, you need to send merch samples, just send, you know, important documents back and forth, whatever it may be. Stamps.com is perfect for your small business. And right now you can try stamps.com risk free for 60 days. Go to stamps.com, use code toast to get 60 days risk free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you've spent on every shipment. That's stamps.com code toast stamps.com, code T O A S T Today's episode is also brought to you by HomeServe. Jackie, why don't you tell me a little bit about homeserve.

[Olivia]

I would love to tell you about homeserve as a homeowner. Because. Because owning home is amazing. You know, until it's not. One minute you're sipping coffee, the next you're ankle deep in water from a burst pipe. Repairs don't care about timing and they definitely don't care about your budget. So regular homeowners insurance covers a lot, but it usually doesn't cover a lot of the day to day wear and tear. Like plumbing failures, H VAC breakdowns, electrical issues. You're often on your own for those. So that's where HomeServe comes in. It's like a subscription for your home for as little as 4.99amonth. Month, they've got your back. Repairs hit fast and hard. You could be searching for a contractor in a panic or you could already be on the phone with one from home. Serves 24. 7 hotline. Scheduling a repair. So it's very simple. Choose a plan for your needs and budget and when something on your plan goes wrong, just call their 24.7hotline to start the repair process. So yes, I had like a little leak in my bathroom, one of my faucets. Yeah, it's like that's not something that's like insurance, you know, the big one. But these are like day to day things that are really add up, frustrating. They add up. And it's not just like the cost of it, which HomeServe will help you with once you're on a subscription, but it's also, you know, the resources of finding someone great. Their, their hotline will help you with that. So it's really a fantastic product for us homeowners. Help protect your home systems and your wallet with HomeServe against covered repairs. Plans start at just 4.99amonth. Go to HomeServe.com to find the plan that's right for you. That's HomeServe.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between 4.99 to 11.99amonth for your first year. Terms apply. Uncovered repairs. Thank you, Home serve.

[Jackie]

Thank you, Shaquille. Such a great resource for sharing your truth with us.

[Olivia]

Such a great resource. Happy to put people onto it.

[Jackie]

Great.

[Olivia]

Our next story. NBC is eyeing pink to take over the Kelly Clarkson show. Rumors are a swirling pink has landed in New York and the talk of the town is that she's taking over Kelly's show. So NBC is not in the business of squandering a key time slot. Right in the wake of Kelly Clarkson's departure. And TMZ has confirmed the network is taking a hard look at Kelly's replacement this week, namely Pink. As one source connected to the show tells tmz, Pink has what it takes, meaning she has the skill set to do an hour long interview show. Most importantly, the source says she's natural and friendly. Sources connected to the show say the show's staff loves Pink and they're crossing their fingers that she's the one from NBC.

[Jackie]

So I want to say I think this is a bad call all around.

[Olivia]

Okay.

[Jackie]

And I'm obviously protective of Kelly's time slot, so maybe that's that. But the thing that was so great about Kelly and I think why the show she was so open to doing it is when the time came, like she really wasn't actively touring. And so it's, you know, you crave a job that will give you stability. You know, she's a mom of two do with Pink. She's almost always on the road. And this job does not lend itself and she's a very successful touring artist. This job doesn't lend itself to doing other things outside of it. It's very full time. Also, I think what's underrated about Kelly and people don't even really ever, I think, acknowledges, and that's why she's so good for the job, is daytime is very. It's fodder, right? It's like filler. It's not filler. It's not like, you know, you're not having like, hard conversations. And it's hard, it's fluff. It's hard for someone to walk the line in this day and age without getting political. And I think that's why, like, literally everyone loves Kelly Clarkson. Like, I think that she's very joyful, she's very uplifting in a time when people need that. And she's not talking about literally anything that's going on outside of her show. And it's kind of like an escape for people. And there's very, very, very few people who can do that without getting shit right. Like, you're not political. It's a privilege to not be political. But for some reason, Kelly just sort of gets away with it. And I think it actually benefits her in this particular job. Pink for years is like, very outspoken about a lot of different issues. I think that she wouldn't be able to maintain that level of escapism. For people. Now, some people crave that in a daytime show where they're looking for more hard news or hot takes.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

But with Kelly's audience, I think they've really come to appreciate that it's just fun. We're singing, we're talking to other girls. We're talking about motherhood. Like, we're not talking about anything that high level or deep.

[Olivia]

Deep.

[Jackie]

And I think that the audience might not take to Pink's totally opposite approach, that Pink was one of the first people in the industry, like, talking about politics before. Now everyone does. But, like, very much in, like, the shut up and sing era of, like, American music, she was one of the first, like. And I don't think she would change that, you know?

[Olivia]

Yeah. I would think of them more from, like, a music and career standpoint. I think they're, like, in the exact same spot in their careers and. And they both make music that I love. So, like, to me, they are sort of similar. But I agree with you in thinking about it. Like, Pink is. Is more divisive and, like, she said, like, divisive things. Not even, like, back in the day when, like, she was, you know, a troubled teen, but, like, just recently.

[Jackie]

No, she has to think she's, like, a badass.

[Olivia]

And, you know, she's always like, if you don't like this, don't listen to my music. Like, you know, which isn't someone who's for everyone all the time. So I agree with you. I imagine she would have. Wouldn't bring that to this show. But I also think Pink's gonna. Pink, she's very scrupled and she's not gonna, like, shut her mouth just to take a job. Agreed.

[Jackie]

I can't imagine that she wants this job. I don't know. I feel like this is just like, a rumor.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

She's such a successful touring artist.

[Olivia]

How, like, back in the day, she was like one of the girlies and she was like, the bad seed. Right, Right.

[Jackie]

No, she would, like, had short hair and tattoos.

[Olivia]

And now she ends, you know, singing, like, about how she's not like Jessica Simpson and now she. She's the one who's America's sweetheart.

[Jackie]

It's crazy because you know what? The cream rises, like, say what you want about Pink. She is so talented and her music is so good. She never went.

[Olivia]

I mean, I. I know.

[Jackie]

No, I know. But I'm saying, like, when you look at it, like, sort of at a glance, like, why did she make it? She's still. Of all those pop girlies. She's really the only one who's still touring.

[Olivia]

But it's also about. It's not just the music. It's head on her shoulders.

[Jackie]

She is very headstrong, and she's, like,

[Olivia]

the only one who didn't, like, lose her mind.

[Jackie]

So true. She never went through, like, a bad era because she was always this, like, bad gal.

[Olivia]

But it was very.

[Jackie]

Like, it was manufactured. It was like an image. Like, she herself has always been, like, very true to herself. Very good head on her shoulders, very smart. And it's true, like, when you think of the era that she came from, she's sort of the last one standing.

[Olivia]

Yeah. And, like, she's very tough. And I think, like, no one, like, she was able to make it through that very hard time, whereas everyone else, like, sort of was manipulated and didn't. Got lost in the sauce, and then they're back. Yeah, of course, you know, but it, like, like, it.

[Jackie]

She never wavered.

[Olivia]

It took a toll.

[Jackie]

Kind of sounds like the way we're describing her, like, she would make an amazing talk show host, but. And I actually agree that she would make an amazing talk show host, but

[Olivia]

we're talking about filling the Kelly, and maybe she's just filling Kelly slot, and it's the Pink show, and you're gonna get some hot takes and. But she's not the next Kelly, because Kelly is for everyone. You couldn't. And I, I. It's not like, I know anyone who would say, like, I hate Pink, but I think if they heard some of the things that she said, they'd be like, oh, right, that doesn't. That doesn't represent me.

[Jackie]

That's the cost of, like, being a person with a lot of opinions that you share. It's like. And I think Pink knows that, and she kind of prides herself on that. Being like, well, if you don't agree with me, like, you don't have to listen to my music. You don't have to come to my show. Whereas, like, Kelly has always been for everyone.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

So it's a very. I feel like we talk about it a lot in, like, a more jokey way with Jimmy Fallon. Like, he kind of is for everyone because he just sort of, like, goes with the flow and say what you want. Maybe that makes him unsurable, but it does make him successful. And I think he has. Has, like, you know, a good Q score because of it. Like, he doesn't really wade where other people do. And maybe he's not having the most, like, intellectual monologues.

[Olivia]

You Know who might be good for this?

[Jackie]

Let me think.

[Olivia]

It's like, she might also be terrible.

[Jackie]

Who?

[Olivia]

But she might be good.

[Jackie]

Who?

[Olivia]

Katy Perry.

[Jackie]

I mean, I'm down to try.

[Olivia]

You know what? Like, she loves to be loved, and

[Jackie]

she loves to be loved, like, be

[Olivia]

out there, and she has so much energy. Like, maybe she needs to channel it.

[Jackie]

Does it have to be a pop star? Like, no, no.

[Olivia]

But if we're thinking of, like, the next Kelly Clarkson, and Katie is obviously, like, not as loved as Kelly, but, like, she needs to do something with all that energy.

[Jackie]

And I think a huge part of the show's success is the musical element of it. Like, the Kelly Yoki, Katie Yoki, and I guess, like, Kelly Clarkson, like, owns the show, so, like, whoever she picks, like, it's like how Barbara Walters invented the View, and like, she still is cashing checks to this day. I think that if they take on the format of Kelly's show, like, she'll still be a part of it, which she should be. But, yeah, the musical element, it doesn't have to be a pop star, but the musical element was something nobody else had done on TV before. And I think it really helped with the success, especially catering to a young audience like the Kelly Okies, like, going so viral and people be, like, being put on to Kelly for the first time through her show.

[Olivia]

I think also a logical choice that people would think about is Carrie Underwood.

[Jackie]

Oh, but Carrie Underwood is work doing American Idol. Well, that. And she's similar to Pink, but just sort of on the opposite side setting Tradwife. She's a homesteading tradwife. She performed at the inauguration. Like, she is divisive. Also in terms of, like, liberals would be like, I don't want to hear Carrie Underwood. And conservatives would be like, I don't want to hear Pink.

[Olivia]

Right, right, right.

[Jackie]

I think liberals. Yeah, they all agree Kelly Clarkson in America's Sweetheart.

[Olivia]

Yeah, we can. She's the Venn diagram. She's a circle.

[Jackie]

And that's why I think daytime sort of, like, fell into this tough spot because everything's very political right now, and daytime was always supposed to not be. And Kelly's sort of. And that's why I feel like the network's probably freaking, like, Kelly just got away with being Kelly and, like, just being for everyone and being, like, a fun place where people were coming to talk about their projects, telling funny stories. Like, that was it.

[Olivia]

But that's like, Jennifer Hudson, too.

[Jackie]

Yeah, yeah. Jennifer Hudson does a really good job. And Jennifer Hudson does what I think Kelly hasn't done yet. Is Jennifer Hudson gets, like, really involved with, like, a lot of influencers go on Jennifer Hudson. Like, I think they. They have guests on who I think maybe Kelly would think is, like, a little too low brow. Like, tick Tockers. And I feel like in this day and age, you kind of need to be open to the podcasters and the tick Tockers.

[Olivia]

You know who else I'm just gonna give?

[Jackie]

Drew Barrymore.

[Olivia]

No. Oh, she does a good job. Kristen Bell seems like someone of this elk. Of, like, everybody loves her.

[Jackie]

And she sings.

[Olivia]

And she sings.

[Jackie]

That's actually a really good call.

[Olivia]

That's an Okie.

[Jackie]

That's actually.

[Olivia]

You know what I like? I like karaoke.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

But Carrie Underwood. Do you think we've already fired.

[Jackie]

That's a good. Do you think that there's enough room in their house for two talk show hosts, Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard? Like, I think he would freak.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Like, those two are the most employed people.

[Jackie]

It's so true.

[Olivia]

It is so true. Everything. I would love to know their net worth. Yeah. Like, watch out for them.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Oh, you could also, like, pluck from the podcast world.

[Jackie]

Yes. That's what I was thinking, too.

[Olivia]

If you're, like, looking to get creative.

[Jackie]

We're not divisive at all.

[Olivia]

I. We're America's sweethearts.

[Jackie]

We are. Everybody loves us. You're seeing double. I'm seeing Kelly Clarkson's replacement.

[Olivia]

I actually was not like.

[Jackie]

No, no, me either. But like, it.

[Olivia]

Amy Poehler.

[Jackie]

She's crushing.

[Olivia]

She's crushing it. Why would she want to go?

[Jackie]

And, like, I actually don't think daytime's also a really specific format. Like, not everyone thrives in, like, short, weird segments, like, overly produced.

[Olivia]

Just someone who's, like, super smiley and

[Jackie]

friendly and who people in Hollywood really like. Yeah.

[Olivia]

Yeah. I think we've thrown out some really good options, and I would give Katy Perry a test week. I would.

[Jackie]

Yeah. She's an unlikely.

[Olivia]

Here's the thing. She. Whatever she's gonna do is gonna be bananas. And it might be good bananas or terrible bananas. Whatever.

[Jackie]

Move on. First guest Trudeau.

[Olivia]

Of course. Of course.

[Jackie]

Course.

[Olivia]

She's got friends in high places.

[Jackie]

She does.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Everybody loves her. Literally. Okay.

[Jackie]

I don't think it's pink. I just want to say that, like,

[Olivia]

we still have one more story, but that just felt like final to me.

[Jackie]

Oh, really? I. I knew we had another story. Is it. Let me see it. Like, is it a good one or should we skip it?

[Olivia]

It's like a little tea Little tea. I know you love this person.

[Jackie]

I do. Okay, good.

[Olivia]

Love saying her name.

[Jackie]

I do. Love saying Shanna Moakler.

[Olivia]

Shanna Moakler feels like lines were crossed when it came to co parenting with Kourtney Kardashian and ex Travis Bar Parker. So Shannon Moakler went on Brittany Carton Wright's podcast.

[Jackie]

Yes, we'd love to see Britney making news.

[Olivia]

They know when reality hits. And she said that she's talking about co parenting with Courtney. She said that she and Courtney have never had a conversation about co parenting. Travis's two kids, Alabama and Landon, who are Shanna's children. She said, I don't think any of those women. I don't think those women have those conversations with anybody. At one point in time, I felt like it wasn't respectful. I felt at certain times it was kind of like, wow, if I had your kids, I wouldn't be doing some of the you're doing with my kids. I would make sure that if I was watching her children, I would have just made sure that lines weren't crossed, and I felt like there were some lines that were crossed. But it is what it is. It's happened, and I think we've all moved forward from it now. She emphasized that she wouldn't rule out the possibility of sitting down with Courtney to have a conversation about their co parenting preferences.

[Jackie]

Going on a podcast and talking about Courtney and co parenting is not a good way to get her to sit down with you.

[Olivia]

It's not gonna make it better. She admitted. I don't talk to that family. I don't like that family.

[Jackie]

Oh, okay. Yeah, she definitely wants to talk to you. Based on the limited things that I know about Travis's kids with sh. Shanna and their, like, parenting agreement, it's that, like, if Courtney was involved, like, it was for lack of.

[Olivia]

Just say what you want to say.

[Jackie]

Like, I don't know many kids that live full time with their dad. Like, that's abnormal. Based on as long as both parents are alive and, like, you know, functioning, it's kind of a red flag. And I think, like, if Courtney was ever too involved, it's just because, like, there was space for her to be in too involved. I'm not gonna, like, crack on her. I do think, like, sometimes, like, step parents overstep. I don't think that's what this is being like, I'm your mama. Like, it's disrespectful. Like, the kids have a mom, so I think you need to be really sensitive about that. I feel like the girls would know that. And I feel like what she's referring to is like, I feel like these women talking about the Kardashians don't have the those types of conversations because, you know, dream was like living with Chloe and like co parenting Chloe and Rob and again. And I feel like in that situation it was because there was space for Khloe to become that.

[Olivia]

Right.

[Jackie]

And I think China would admit at the time, and I think she has said publicly that like, she's very grateful to the Kardashians because now she's like a healed woman and she's doing really, really well and she's full time parenting dream. But there was a time where she couldn't because of the space that she was in. And I think she actually feels very grateful to the Kardashians for stepping in at a time when she came couldn't. And so Shanna sort of like clowning on Courtney for being there when it seems like Shanna wasn't like, shut your mouth.

[Olivia]

Yeah, Yeah. I just feel like the girls are what, being criticized for being like, overly involved, parental to all the children in their life.

[Jackie]

I feel like they only do that

[Olivia]

when there is something missing.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

And I don't know her going on a podcast like with Brittany Cartwright to talk like, about the woman whose house Alabama lives in. Like, like Alabama loves Courtney. I know.

[Olivia]

And like Courtney, I mean, people like knock, but she's motherhood is so important to her parenthood. Also, she's talked so much about a blended family and like step parenthood. I, I can't imagine just knowing like the, the, the characters in this situation and like what their values are, what of what we can know from, and just being fans, like I, I, I imagine she tries to do right back, obviously.

[Jackie]

And I think more typically when we talk about blended families, it's, you know, kids who come over every other weekend. Right. Like, it's not always both parents, the mom and the dad who are getting remarried have custody of the kids unless someone's like widowed or whatever. So I think that like the way we think about blended families, I don't often think about it like this and I feel like the things we've heard over the years about like Shanna as,

[Olivia]

you know, a parent, I don't really know anything.

[Jackie]

It's always like been implied that, that she's just not, not as present.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

So like now you're going on a podcast to talk about the woman who literally built a house so that there was rooms for your kids. Like. Like, seriously off.

[Olivia]

Yeah, it's.

[Jackie]

It's really rude. And then, like, I don't know, then they.

[Olivia]

And just going on a podcast. Yeah, exactly. It's not even like your memoirs. It's like someone else, not even your own. Agreed.

[Jackie]

Like, the nature of this conversation puts me off even more. It's like being Team Courtney.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Team Courtney.

[Jackie]

So that's our show.

[Olivia]

What?

[Jackie]

Thank you so much for listening.

[Olivia]

That's a wrap for today.

[Jackie]

Thank you so much for listening to the. Beautiful setting and wickedly talented we are.

[Olivia]

Love you. Bye.

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