Morning Breath Energy with Chris Appleton: Thursday, January 22nd, 2026

Summary

The Toast Podcast Summary

Episode: “Morning Breath Energy with Chris Appleton”

Hosts: Jackie & Claudia Oshry (aka Jackson Claude)
Guest: Chris Appleton
Date: January 22, 2026

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Main Theme / Episode Overview

This lively episode of The Toast merges celebrity beauty with the hosts’ signature irreverent humor. The main event: celebrity hairstylist Chris Appleton joins the show for a wide-ranging chat culminating in a rare, live on-air haircut for Claudia. The episode also covers pop culture news, TV recaps, and an in-depth discussion about appearance, confidence, and transformation—both physical and personal.

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Episode Highlights

1. Chris Appleton Appearance and the Live Haircut

• Timestamp: 00:22–01:39; 67:13–106:47
• The show opens with Jackie and Claudia’s overwhelming excitement: Chris Appleton, renowned stylist to Kim Kardashian and JLo, is not only a guest but gives Claudia a live haircut.
• Claudia jokes about getting a “Chris Appleton bob,” referencing her fascination with drastic hair changes, but quickly clarifies she isn’t going through with a dramatic bob.
• The show’s energy is framed as reminiscent of their “Morning Breath” days—impulsive, playful, and a bit chaotic.
• The segment becomes a genuine moment of vulnerability for Claudia, discussing how hair relates to self-image and why hair changes can be so emotional.
• Quote:
  Chris Appleton [69:17]: “It’s like you’re actually in my chair. We always talk about being in my chair. Everyone keeps saying, what is it about sitting in a stylist’s chair? And you become a therapist.”
• Chris discusses “hair contouring,” finding the right style for Claudia’s face and hair texture, and shares professional insights from celebrity glam to hair disasters.
• Claudia is transparent about anxieties, referencing the “hater in my head,” while Chris encourages self-acceptance and reframing self-talk.

2. Color Wow and Hair Product Deep Dive

• Timestamp: 04:13, 76:44–80:14
• The hosts and Chris rave about Color Wow hair products. Claudia admits her obsession began when Chris first came on the show in 2019.
• Chris clarifies his deeper business partnership and creative involvement with the brand, beyond just being a spokesperson.
• Quote:
  Chris Appleton [79:11]: “No, I was a big part of it...fundamentally we really cared about creating a great product for the people that needed hair care solutions.”

3. Personal Transformations: Chris Appleton’s Memoir, Health, and Weight Loss

• Timestamp: 81:13–88:38
• Chris speaks candidly about his new book, Your Roots Don’t Define You, blending memoir with self-help, and about his cancer scare that prompted more vulnerability in his storytelling.
• He and the hosts have a frank, empathetic conversation about GLP-1 weight-loss drugs (Ozempic, Zepbound, etc.), discussing benefits, side effects, stigma, and how these medications intersect with confidence, motherhood, and career.
• Quote:
  Chris Appleton [82:26]: “I decided to write this and just be more vulnerable and more real because I guess I just wanted to own my voice before, you know, the possibility of not having it.”
• Both Chris and Claudia discuss the pressure and emotional weight of appearance, especially in the context of social media and celebrity.

4. Recap and Banter: Celebrity Pop Culture & Shows

• The Blake Lively–Taylor Swift ‘Text Saga’
  [06:05–29:29]
  The hosts dissect newly-revealed text messages between the two stars amid a public legal case, offering both analysis and comic relief about fan obsessiveness and privacy.
• Kim Kardashian on “Khloé in Wonderland” Podcast
  [29:43–39:42]
  Fast takes on Kim’s willingness to address her relationship with Taylor Swift, North West’s creative self-expression, AI deepfakes, and the elephant Birkin saga.
• Oscar Nominations
  [40:18–43:55]
  Quick-fire reactions: excitement about Timothy Chalamet and Kate Hudson’s nominations; schadenfreude over Wicked being shut out.
• Sydney Sweeney, “Tell Me Lies,” and The Gilded Age
  [44:05–61:34]
  Chatter about Sweeney’s new period drama role, a nuanced discussion of her acting range, and a lovingly critical recap of “Tell Me Lies,” including cast relationships and character development.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Claudia [71:53]:
  “Oh, my God. So you think I’m skinny.”
• Chris Appleton [79:14]:
  “The book isn’t a memoir, by the way. It’s part memoir, but it’s more self-help. Because I think a lot of people just need—even you sitting in the chair—like, there’s an uncomfortableness to change.”
• Chris Appleton [82:53]:
  “Hopefully that’ll help other people. Because we all have those, like, moments where we feel lost or unsure or question, like, is this it?”
• Chris [87:03] (on GLP-1 drugs):
  “People always lose hair when they lose weight…You’ve got to be really kind of, I think, aware of what you’re doing. And I still think it’s good to go to the gym and use it as motivation to—like, a lot of people when they’re overweight… it helps them get to a better place.”
• Chris [100:33] (on self-perception):
  “When you look in the mirror, like, what does the hater say?... I talk about people looking in the mirror. Are you truly aligned with what you see in your outside image with how you truly feel on the inside?”

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Detailed Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | | --- | --- | | 00:22–06:25 | Opening banter; intro & live haircut excitement | | 06:25–29:29 | Blake–Taylor legal/text saga breakdown | | 29:43–39:42 | Kim Kardashian on Khloé’s podcast debrief | | 40:18–43:55 | Oscar nominations & snubs | | 44:05–61:34 | Pop culture: Sydney Sweeney, Gilded Age, “Tell Me Lies” detailed recap | | 67:13–106:47 | Chris Appleton interview & live haircut | | 81:13–88:38 | Health, self-image, memoir, and candid discussion about weight loss drugs | | 100:33–101:23 | Self-perception and internal talk (“the hater in your head”) |

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Tone, Language & Atmosphere

• Warm, irreverent, candid, and self-deprecating
• Blends high-energy pop-culture analysis with personal reflection
• Chris Appleton’s presence adds a calm, insightful, encouraging tone, especially on transformation and self-esteem

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Useful Takeaways for Non-Listeners

• Chris Appleton’s approach with clients (and Claudia) is empathetic and customized—not just about trends but what empowers the individual.
• “Your Roots Don’t Define You” is a memoir for anyone grappling with self-image and personal history, with a focus on overcoming inner doubts.
• The episode gives a behind-the-scenes look at the emotional significance of beauty transformations, including stories from Chris’ celebrity experience.
• Listeners get thoughtful, vulnerable conversations on body image, motherhood, public scrutiny, and the realities behind viral beauty and health trends.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a rich blend of beauty industry insight, self-love advocacy, and unfiltered pop culture commentary, revolving around a memorable, high-stakes live haircut from one of the world’s most famous stylists. Both fun and meaningful, it’s essential listening for both loyal “Toasters” and beauty enthusiasts.

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Transcript

[Claudia]

Good morning, girlies. It's the Toast.

[Jackson Claude]

It's Jackson Claude, and we're your host.

[Claudia]

It's your favorite show.

[Jackson Claude]

The best five things you need to know.

[Claudia]

We'll start your day off.

[Jackson Claude]

Swirly.

[Claudia]

It's the Toast.

[Jackson Claude]

They sound amazing. Welcome back to the Toast. Today's episode is such a special episode because Cogers and I filmed something so exciting yesterday. As you can see from the title, Chris Appleton is a guest on today's show. If you've been a toaster for a long time, you know all the lore which we get into with Chris. At the end of this episode, however, we did something so only something Jackson Claude could do, which was a live haircut with Chris Appleton. And we didn't get to show the grand reveal because he blew out Koji's hair. She seriously looked like a Victoria's Secret bombshell. And we want to do the reveal of Claudia's hair. She told Chris, do your thing. And here is the new Claudia.

[Claudia]

Hi, everyone. I got a bob. And, yes, I got a Chris Appleton bob. Don't be jealous. I'm bobbin and weaving due to Chris Appleton.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay, if you are listening, you're missing the visual. But Claudia, this is her favorite thing to do in life is to get a haircut and pretend I got a bob.

[Claudia]

Obviously, I didn't get a bob. Are you guys fucking crazy? Ready for the reveal.

[Jackson Claude]

Sickening.

[Claudia]

Okay.

[Jackson Claude]

Sickening.

[Claudia]

Go off my camera. I want to do, like, a big reveal. Okay.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay. Zhuzh it up. Show us everything. It's so sick. It's so gorgeous. And now a princess. Omg.

[Claudia]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Jackson Claude]

Not only did I get my hair.

[Claudia]

Cut by Chris Appleton, he blew it out, he styled it, and then we.

[Jackson Claude]

Did not cut corners. Cause we were ready for him to.

[Claudia]

Cut your hair wet and, like.

[Jackson Claude]

And then you'll dry it at home. Like. No, no, no. He wasn't gonna leave you with a wet head like a. Like a little rat.

[Claudia]

Not only did he not leave me with a wet head like a little rat, he took his little kitchen shears, he cut the shit out of my hair. It's actually right behind me in an acrylic box.

[Jackson Claude]

Yes.

[Claudia]

There was so much hair. I couldn't believe it.

[Jackson Claude]

So new decor alert. Claudia's Merkin.

[Claudia]

Asmr. Merkin. The M in ASMR stands for merkin. But not only did he do all that in a matter of 35 seconds. Jackie was like, I feel like my hair feels like just look a little.

[Jackson Claude]

I just really wanted, like, I got a haircut recently, but My front pieces, like, aren't short enough for me, and I just want more layers. And jealous of Koji's hair. Like, I could vomit. Chris was so funny and so nice to us. He's literally cutting my hair.

[Claudia]

Like, as we're leaving the property.

[Jackson Claude]

Walking. He's walking and cutting my hair.

[Claudia]

And I don't know, Jackie, the way he breathed new life into you in 10 seconds. Guys, when I tell you it was not more than one minute long. It was insane to watch. Like, obviously, my whole transformation was amazing. The real magic was the back alley haircut that you got from Chris Appleton. Like, when I tell you, we are so obnoxious. Like, oh, Chris Appleton's coming. Let's all get our haircut. Like, hey, as. As he's leaving, we're like, hey, can you spray some color?

[Chris Appleton]

Wow.

[Claudia]

Hairspray. We milked our opportunity for all of us. It's probably the only time in our lives we will get our hair cut by Chris Appleton. The same guy who does Kim Kardashian. Like, it's insane. We were not taking the opportunity for granted. So, yeah, we got layers.

[Jackson Claude]

Claudia actually has been looking to get a haircut while she's in Florida because she needed a haircut and she, like, couldn't settle on where to go. And then we're like, let's do a live haircut with Chris Appleton, which, if you've been around a while, is so morning breath coated.

[Claudia]

This is like the wild shit we used to do on the breath.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, like, when we had ears pierced live on the morning.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, my God.

[Jackson Claude]

We did, like, a baking segment with.

[Claudia]

The girl who used to make Krispies. What happened to her?

[Jackson Claude]

We were just always doing the wildest shit, like, and doing it live. And yesterday actually, I had flashbacks. It was actually nice. Cause I was like, oh, wow. We're still those same girls.

[Claudia]

And I think that a resolution is we need to be doing. Now that we're here together for as long as I am here, we need to be doing more. Like, more Morning Glory type shit. Going on roller coasters for the podcast.

[Jackson Claude]

On the regular show.

[Claudia]

Yeah, we usually.

[Jackson Claude]

I guess we usually save that sort of stuff for Patreon. It felt very patient.

[Claudia]

It did. It did. You know, but you didn't have to pay to see this. Okay. And he gave us a Color Wow. Promo code. It's in the episode description.

[Jackson Claude]

We talk a lot about Color Wow. In our interview with him because we're obsessed. And he put us onto it when he came to the toast in 2019.

[Claudia]

And it turns Out. He, like, owns part of the company. I thought he was just, like, a paid ambassador.

[Jackson Claude]

So it's toast 20. Stock up that shit we use every day. The shellac pop and lock and jam and break.

[Claudia]

The interview slash live haircut is at the end of today's episode. You guys are seriously gonna crack up. It's so special. And you will actually see the transformation, like today versus yesterday. I have so much life, and I can't stop looking at the monitoring. No, we can. We have so much, like, life in my hair. Obviously, it wasn't a dramatic, drastic haircut. I was never doing that. And Chris actually said himself he would not recommend me getting a bob. I'm always like, I'm gonna get a bob. He's like, don't. Like, I don't have the right face shape for it.

[Jackson Claude]

He.

[Claudia]

No, that's not what he said. I. I don't have the right hair texture for it. I actually have very wavy hair. I have big, thick hair. That's not the type of gal who should be getting a bob. So that made me feel good because I'm always like, I'm so not fun. I'll never get a bob. And here Chris Appleton is telling me not to.

[Jackson Claude]

Whenever I'm ready to get my bob, probably in a couple of years, hopefully.

[Claudia]

Chris is writing the sequel to his.

[Jackson Claude]

Book and he'll come back 1000%. And I will wait for him.

[Claudia]

We the pressure to continue being a successful show so that we're on Chris Appleton's radar. The next time he writes a book is on, like, the first day of the rest of our lives starts today.

[Jackson Claude]

1000% goals.

[Claudia]

Now at schools, we needed to tell you guys that. But I also, like, I just had to say something like a major correction from yesterday. This way, I really don't want to talk about Chris Baldoni, whatever his name is.

[Jackson Claude]

Correction.

[Claudia]

Yes. Every time I get something wrong, which there's so much information, I'm sorry, I'm never going to get it right. And also, I'm just not one of those people not reading all the documents. So Blake and Justin both edited the movie. Blake's tested significantly worse, and they went with Blake's version.

[Jackson Claude]

So what's so crazy is we've been talking about this for so long, and I did not misspeak yesterday. I was completely under the impression that it was Justin's version that went to theaters.

[Chris Appleton]

No.

[Jackson Claude]

And Justin's version tested better.

[Claudia]

It was Blake's, and hers tested worse.

[Jackson Claude]

That wasn't, like, something that I learned it wrong then.

[Claudia]

And I just say this is the most insufferable saga. We are going to talk about Taylor Swift takes, but I just had flashbacks. We haven't talked about it in a while, and then there was, like, a period of time where we were talking about it every day. And I'm sorry. Like, the Baldoni girls are just obsessed with, like, telling me that I'm wrong. I don't have an opinion anymore, okay? I really. You guys have beat me into submission. I don't care. I hate all these people. Goodbye.

[Jackson Claude]

I also, like, I don't really have, like, a strong opinion. I can never remember whose side I'm on. And there are a lot of other ancillary players on both sides, like, some of which I like and some of which I don't like. And I can't remember, like, whose team I'm on.

[Claudia]

Well, I think it's also getting very complicated for people with Taylor now because.

[Jackson Claude]

Whose team is Taylor on?

[Claudia]

Well, so now technically, her and Blake are not friends, but these text messages that we're going to talk about were when they were allies. And people are saying it's making Taylor look bad. Like, it's so not. But I think people don't know how to act because this is very much a women's issue. Like, the only people who care about this who are making tiktoks reading the documents are women. And they are overwhelmingly Team Baldoni. But they also love Taylor Swift. And that's always been this, like, sort of crossroads for people. And now I think they're trying to make it look like, through these text messages, like, Taylor, like, is a villain. She's not. Like, we'll talk about it.

[Jackson Claude]

What I read of Taylor's text, I didn't think reflected negatively on her.

[Claudia]

No. People are really fixating on the fact that she, like, called him a whiny or something. Like, in one of the text messages.

[Jackson Claude]

I cannot believe we're reading these people's text messages when we were reading. I cannot. I cannot get over it. Like, for a year, two years, we've been speculating, like, why aren't they seen together? They're hanging out. And like, now we have their text messages. Like, I don't know, like, what part of the Constitution allows us to see this? But it feels wrong.

[Claudia]

Agreed. Like, seriously eradicate the Constitution. Is anybody else texting differently?

[Chris Appleton]

Oh.

[Jackson Claude]

Or not texting at all? Now, I can say that, you know, I don't answer texts.

[Claudia]

It's for my privacy. Because of the Constitution.

[Jackson Claude]

Because I'm going to be subpoenaed no.

[Claudia]

Literally, the fact that, like, the most elite Taylor Swift, like, nobody's more famous, more powerful in the country, and her text messages are getting leaked.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, also, what does give me, like, a little bit of peace is, like, I think Blake knew that these messages were going to get out because she had changed her tone in how she was speaking to her friends. That's what Taylor's gripe with her was.

[Claudia]

Also, these text messages were given to the court by Blake and her team. They're meant to help Blake. Although cringe and whatever. Oh, they are made to make it look like, look, I was under severe distress. Look, I was not in control. I was begging people for help. So they're all in support of her case. You know, I really don't want to talk about this anymore. Every time people be like, well, no, it's not in support of her case. Please. Like, seriously.

[Jackson Claude]

All right. Because they'll be like, no, Justin's team.

[Claudia]

Yeah. Like, woof. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. And I also, like, I hate everyone now that's involved in this saga. Please.

[Jackson Claude]

Taylor. You hate Taylor.

[Claudia]

Oh, you're one of them. You're one of them.

[Jackson Claude]

Hates Taylor Swift, one of Beldoni's angels.

[Chris Appleton]

No.

[Claudia]

If anything, that's you. Me? If anything. This saga, I believe, makes Taylor look very good. And we'll talk about why.

[Jackson Claude]

I agree. We will get into it. We have so many stories today. I did so much homework last night.

[Claudia]

Oh, yeah. Oh, me too.

[Jackson Claude]

Caught up on Tell Me Lies.

[Claudia]

How many episodes are there?

[Jackson Claude]

Four.

[Claudia]

Oh, I'm all caught up.

[Jackson Claude]

I watched Kim on Chloe in Wonderland. That will be a story today.

[Claudia]

Okay, good. I watched the first maybe 20 minutes of it this morning.

[Jackson Claude]

Great. And I read for the redheads. Wild Shore, we're recording tomorrow. We're getting our together this year. Still wouldn't recommend it to a friend, but I'm excited to try.

[Claudia]

Wouldn't recommend the podcast to a friend.

[Jackson Claude]

Wouldn't recommend the book to a friend.

[Claudia]

Oh, that's what you mean. The redhead's like, we're getting our shit together. Still wouldn't recommend it to a friend.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, sorry. We're getting our shit together, period. Enter new paragraph tab. I wouldn't recommend this book to a friend.

[Claudia]

Tabula rasa.

[Jackson Claude]

Tabula rasa. I wonder if that's what tab is short for, you know?

[Claudia]

Wait, yeah, because you're, like, starting fresh.

[Jackson Claude]

Wait, 1,000%.

[Claudia]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Jackson Claude]

Or like, a new tab. That's tabula rasa 1000%.

[Claudia]

Where? Where does the abbreviation tab come from the Latin. Not being able to talk to text etymology.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay.

[Claudia]

Like you're getting the. Okay. Tablet tabulation or tabulator.

[Jackson Claude]

The tablet is for tabula rasa. Like a blank tablet, I believe.

[Claudia]

What language is tabula rasa?

[Jackson Claude]

Latin.

[Claudia]

Okay, so let me say the Latin, the Greek root. So the abbreviating tab comes from tabula, and rasa is table tabula. Oh, my God. Like, not just us being a part of etymology.

[Jackson Claude]

It's so true.

[Claudia]

I love that.

[Jackson Claude]

Tabula rasa, tabula. I'm tabula, you're rasa.

[Claudia]

You're really not meeting me in the middle. Okay.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. So that's your English lesson for the day.

[Claudia]

So we actually have, like, a lot to do. You know, I do love to dilly dally.

[Jackson Claude]

Midst of the story between tell me.

[Claudia]

Lies, the Chris Appleton review, the Taylor Swift text messages like, oh, this episode.

[Jackson Claude]

Is gonna be nilafi central.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

So I feel comfortable getting into the fast five stories that you do need to know.

[Claudia]

And the Fast 5 stories that you do need to know are brought to you by skims, our favorite place to shop for bras and underwear. So skims website, they also have new, you know, a pot. They have a big store, a flagship store now in New York City. They're really crushing. It has become my go to destination for all things undergarments. And I feel like through different stages of my life, I've had different needs for my undergarments. And I feel like my needs now. I'm needier than Amber when it comes to bras and undies. I'm just off of a pregnanc, off of a breastfeeding journey. And I can't just like walk into any store and get a bra. I need a store that specializes in woman, and that's basically what skims does. That's not like their official slogan. I just made that up. So underwear does not need to be an afterthought. You'll realize once you start wearing good underwear, like how you've just been slumming it your whole life. So the some of my favorite products from skims come from their Fits Everybody collection. It really fits everybody. They're super size inclusive too, especially when it comes to bras. I feel like people talk about size inclusivity a lot, but not when it comes to bras. I think they have like over 60 bra sizes. It's. It's just really everything. They have really managed to make products for women of all shapes, colors, sizes. It's fabulous. Shop our favorite bras and [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to let them know that the toast sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. And if you're looking for the perfect gift for your valentine because you know they make lots of sexy, sexy wears over at Skims, you can shop for your valentine or for yourself. The Skims Valentine shop is now open, so make sure to check that out. Today's episode is also brought to you by Rocket Money. It's the beginning of the year. Feel like no better time for me to talk about my favorite app than Rocket Money. A lot of us have tons of subscriptions. This is the age of subscriptions, whether it comes to streaming services, subscription boxes, monthly deliveries, things like that. And it is so easy to forget. You move credit cards, you move apartments, you don't even realize you're being charged for things that you haven't been using in years. For me, I found out through Rocket Money that I was being charged for, you know, multiple services multiple times. It was very frustrating. Well, Rocket Money is here. They are a personal finance app to help you with all of your financials. But a lot of people go to Rocket Money because of the subscription ender helper. So Rocket Money has tracked subscriptions and the ability to cancel subscriptions within their app just with a few taps, saving time and avoiding, you know, extraneous charges, which is my nightmare. Their automatic transaction categorization across accounts plus customizable categories and tags reveal your spending patterns. They add contacts, they help you save, they help you cut back. If you're looking like, you know, to save up for a purse or something, they can help you with that if you have a certain financial goal. The gateway drug is the subscriptions. Because I think everybody needs to do that like multiple times a year. It adds up so quickly. And you really do forget. Did I do Apple Pay? Did I do credit card? Did I do this card? Did it get canceled? Did I move apartments? Well, Rocket Money helps you reach your financial goals and it helps you do it faster. So join a RocketMoney.com toast. That's RocketMoney.com T O A S T RocketMoney.com toast Let the beginning of the year be your journey to financial wellness. It is just something you'll sleep better. You'll find Rocket Money is not necessarily sleep aid, but I think it's a gateway sleep sleep aid. Today's episode is also brought to you by Ali. As you guys know, Jackie loves her dog.

[Jackson Claude]

Yes, Jackie loves her dog.

[Claudia]

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[Chris Appleton]

Thank you.

[Jackson Claude]

Your first tert.

[Claudia]

You're welcome.

[Jackson Claude]

Our first story, very exciting news out of Netflix yesterday. Couple things, couple things for the girlies. First up, Alix Earle sets a new Netflix reality show about her family. Yesterday it was announced that Netflix will be debuting an Alex Earle reality series this year. Per the streamer, the show will spotlight the Gen Z it girls modern family including her influencer sister Ashton and her group of friends. It promises to document the real time messiness of a young woman in transition. So this has been talked about for a while now. You know, working title Earl Girls. I don't know if this is Earl Girls but we are finally getting Alex Earl reality TV show.

[Claudia]

Yeah. I also feel like, I don't know in history or recent history, a time where Netflix has Teased a project before it's even been filmed. I feel like we find out something because of the trailer or like a cover art. I think they picked up cameras like literally yesterday.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, really?

[Claudia]

I feel like. Yeah, like, I feel like Netflix is like so in development on this. I feel like they're in. I just got the vibe that they're investing like a lot of money in this.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. So she said in a statement. I share a lot of my life on social media and people think they know everything there is to know about me and my family, but honestly, there's still so much more. We are so happy that the show found a home with Netflix. At its core, this show is about our fun, loving, and sometimes chaotic modern family and how we always show up for each other through it all. It sounds filmed.

[Claudia]

Oh, really? I did not get the vibe that like it had been filmed. I feel like if Alex was like out and about with a whole ass camera crew, like, we would have known about it.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

And also they would have teased with like a little something. It was like this pre made clip of her at the Netflix office. Like, cute little skit. I just got the vibe that it has not been filmed yet.

[Jackson Claude]

Got it. Well, it's very exciting nonetheless. I do hope Sally's in it because it did.

[Claudia]

She is. Alex posted a picture she said like her friends will be a part of and then she posted a picture of all these cameras and like Sally's sitting in. In the middle of them.

[Jackson Claude]

My girl.

[Claudia]

Okay, what do you feel like this means for the Nader sisters? Don't you feel like the description sounds exactly like what their show is?

[Jackson Claude]

Yes, but I think I can personal as the target demo for both shows hold space for both, especially as they withhold season two of Love Thy Nader from us quite literally. And like, maybe we could get on a schedule where I'm either watching Love Thy Neighbor or Earl Girls. Also, everything takes up about a week now.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

So I have 51 other weeks of the year to watch beautiful sisters doing things.

[Claudia]

Probably like 45 other weeks because we've got like Secret Lives of Mormon Wives which last one week.

[Jackson Claude]

Right.

[Claudia]

Saucy shows coming out, like.

[Jackson Claude]

Right. So I have the time. Do not worry about me making time for beautiful sisterly content.

[Claudia]

Yeah. I mean, there's so much love floor with her family. We talk about it all the time. So I do think a reality show is perfect. I'm dying to know more about her dad. He's very much involved. They talk about him. I don't think we hear from him a lot. He's in the background. So he's married to obviously Alex's stepmom who is a content creator herself too. She posts a lot of like fashion stuff, wealthy woman, content, very hunting wives. And you see him in the background, he's like curmudgeon, businessman. So I am really looking forward because he's fascinating, obviously his history as well. So I am so looking forward to this. I will be the first person watching. I love that she did this. There was a lot of talk when she first got famous about like her pitching a show. I don't know if she pitched it unsuccessfully or she decided it wasn't the right time, but this is so premium doing it in partnership with Netflix. It's. People are so excited. I'm so excited. It's gonna be great.

[Jackson Claude]

It is gonna be great. Netflix also announced that they will be home to a couple more podcasts, video podcasts, including Therapists with Jake Shane, 48 Hours and Stassi with Tay. So Stassi announced yesterday that she's rebranding her podcast Stassi now to be Stassy with Tay, with Taylor Strucker as a permanent co host. And the videos will live on Netflix.

[Claudia]

So Netflix is snatching them up and I'm kind of waiting for other streamers to do it. Like Hulu has the Tell Me Lies podcast which now like is on Hulu, which is I think is a gate, a good gateway to podcasts. But I feel like everyone's kind of slipping.

[Jackson Claude]

I think Peacock has a Traders podcast that's on Trader, that's on Peacock.

[Claudia]

Okay, so I like the post show Peacock. It's just called an after show. They don't need to call it a podcast if they're just putting it on the streaming service. But sure. No, I mean like if they really want to get into the game, like people are not signing up for Peacock so they can watch the triggers podcast.

[Jackson Claude]

And there's difference between like an after show, post show for the show that you're doing in promotion of the show versus just like a random podcast that has nothing to do with like pre existing content.

[Claudia]

And you know, because I saw people talking about this more like labeling things as podcasts so you can do non union projects and having like a streamed after show being labeled as a podcast does feel like a workaround to the union issue.

[Jackson Claude]

I can't believe if it really is just all about like cutting out SAG aftra.

[Claudia]

I don't think it's all about that, but I think it's an Added benefit, like, look, podcasts are so low lift. More people watch podcasts than most cable TV shows. And a podcast cost $100. And it.

[Jackson Claude]

Well, no, you can, you can Netflix.

[Claudia]

No, of course, of course, of course. I think this is great. And also they're coming for YouTube's neck. I wonder if YouTube, because a lot of. Up until recently, most podcasters who filmed their videos, you put it on YouTube for free.

[Jackson Claude]

You know, that's the video platform for podcasts.

[Claudia]

And, and now if you're on Netflix, you're not allowed to upload your new episodes.

[Jackson Claude]

So I wonder if you will now pay podcasts to stay on YouTube.

[Claudia]

Some people are paid exclusively to stream their video on Spotify. So Spotify is in the game. They're. They're taking people from YouTube. Netflix is now in the game, taking people from YouTube. I wonder if YouTube's going to accept their pussy up or if Apple will ever give us a video podcast. Oh, remember them?

[Jackson Claude]

Well, that would just change everything.

[Claudia]

That would bust this case wide open.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, well, rising tides raised all shots. Very exciting for the industry.

[Claudia]

You know, I actually, Ben did not know that podcasts were on, so I went to go show him and there's not like a category for. I literally searched podcasts and it was the number one trending search on Netflix. Netflix. So people are obviously looking for it. They need to add like a tab.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

Eula rasa.

[Jackson Claude]

Eula rasa.

[Claudia]

That's. No you larasa.

[Jackson Claude]

They do need to add a tab or something like. Yeah, well, very exciting. Good work, Netflix.

[Claudia]

Good work, Netflix.

[Jackson Claude]

You making good decisions. Our next story, just to sort of circle back. Blake Lively and Taylor Swift's text reveal why their friendship began. Fracturing Ms. My funny, dark, normal speaking friend Taylor says it.

[Claudia]

It does reveal a little bit that, like, things were on the rocks, but I don't believe that their, you know, 10 year friendship ended because Blake was talking different, you know, so.

[Jackson Claude]

No, but this was the beginning.

[Claudia]

So.

[Jackson Claude]

Cracks in legal docs unsealed on Tuesday before a summary judgment hearing in Lively's ongoing lawsuit against Justin Baldoni. An apparent text message exchange before between the former best friends included in the filing gives insight into their relationship. While the text messages do not include the stars names, other documents in the fil fillings describe the exchange as a conversation between Lively and Swift. So Blake says, quote, I have no reason to ask, but I don't know. I've been feeling like I should. Is everything okay? I felt like a bad friend lately because I was such a sad sack who only Talked about my own for months. You were generous to not only be the key person there for me during all of it, but also to let me off the hook for being so in it. I always want the opportunity to be a better friend if there's something I unintentionally did. I know how busy and taxed you are physically, emotionally, practically. So I don't expect any more from you ever. Just want to make sure all is good.

[Claudia]

Okay. And let's just talk about that. Okay. Before we see Taylor's response, I'm curious, like, what she was reading into. She obviously was reading because Taylor's like, no, you're right. I feel like she must have been freaking, like, at the time Taylor's response.

[Jackson Claude]

Taylor said, not wrong, but it's also not a big deal. She said, I think I'm just exhausted in every avenue of my life. And in recent months, had been feeling a little bit of a shift in the way you talk to me. Me? Yes. There has been a lot of Justin stuff, but I've been through things like this before, and I know how all consuming it is. It's more like. And I feel really bad saying anything about this because your texts have been so nice in their intent, but your last few. It's felt like I was reading a mass corporate email sent to 200 employees. And it feels awful to be in any way critical of you. Of any way to be critical in. To be in any way critical of any way you process what you've been going through. But I just kind of miss my funny, dark, normal speaking friend who talks to me as herself. And I know you feel attacked from all sides for ridiculous reasons, so you're feeling like you have to overly explain things, but it's me that's just caused a little distance. And you don't need to apologize. Just come back, please.

[Claudia]

Okay. Like, to be honest, that is, like, such a nice text message because I'm sure she was insufferable. I think everybody can relate to a saga where, like, your friend is really in something and, like, you're helping them along with it. It does get exhausting. Like, and I'm sure Taylor never would have said anything if Blake didn't just outright ask. So I actually appreciate her honesty and I think she delivered it in a really kind of lovely way, the fact that we are reading this.

[Jackson Claude]

But it makes me feel better that you said that Blake put forth these text messages.

[Claudia]

Yes, that's what I read this morning. So, like, please, if I'm wrong, just. I can't I'm not gonna be right about everything.

[Jackson Claude]

From what I just read, that's what it sounded like was her filing.

[Claudia]

Yes. And it's all meant to prove and support her case of whatever she's pleading to the court. It's just crazy. And I imagine any. Any shred of hope that her relationship with Taylor would be reparable. Her supplying these messages, court for public consumption. Taylor. It's an unforgivable thing.

[Jackson Claude]

But also. Sexual harassment.

[Claudia]

Yes.

[Jackson Claude]

Right.

[Claudia]

Sexual harassment.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. So then.

[Chris Appleton]

But it's also.

[Claudia]

She's being sued. She's suing.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

He's claiming he took over. They took over the movie like it was a small country, like. Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

So she responded by saying she's become digitally paranoid. So that sort of, like, clues you into the fact that she probably not probably, but thought maybe one day someone would be reading these text messages, and so. So maybe they're a little bit more tailored than they would have been. She said. So. Yeah. I've been texting. Like, I'm writing. Not, like, me talking. I didn't realize that until you pointed it out, but I see it on top of that, I'm over packaging simple things because I felt so deeply and misunderstood that I don't trust my judgment of myself anymore. This guy and what he did to me gave me an identity crisis legitimately. She then said, the thing that spooked me most in all of this, though, wasn't the bad guys being bad guys. It was the good guys. My lifelong friends. Quote Tilda.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

Allies to women. It's giving. Like SpongeBob, who quietly dipped. And so I'm probably being over the top with my friends who stayed because I've never felt more alone. She then thanked Taylor and apologized. No, you. To me and to our kids. That guy and his whole gaggle of super villains now.

[Claudia]

I know.

[Jackson Claude]

So this exchange took place. I keep wanting to know three days before Taylor wrapped her tour.

[Claudia]

Yeah. So they had just recently been spotted out together, so there was no.

[Jackson Claude]

When was that?

[Chris Appleton]

That.

[Claudia]

When they were at corner store. Right.

[Jackson Claude]

When did she wrap her tour? In December. Like, I can't remember. With international.

[Claudia]

Right. I'm just like. I know we're not supposed to say this. Like, reading that text message is, like, really made me feel bad for Blake. Like, I know whatever you want to believe. Like, it's just pathetic. Like, it really is. And, like, this is, like, her one remaining friend, and they're not even friends anymore. Like, it's just. I. I feel bad. I do. Sorry.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. I feel bad. Had two the Text.

[Claudia]

The exchange goes on like, it. It's resolved nicely. It's not like they're not fighting. They're like, really? It's such a mature conversation.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

And they do resolve it being like, I'm going to bed. But, like, love you. Love you. Here for you. Like, it doesn't see it. Obviously, it shows cracks in the friendship, but this is not where it ended.

[Jackson Claude]

But what does it prove in Blake's case?

[Claudia]

I have no fucking idea.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, please, we need a documentary. Not that I want more of this, but I do need someone to spell it out for me, like, in an unbiased fashion, if that's even possible. And then there was also messages released between Jamila Jamil.

[Claudia]

Not Jamila Jamil getting.

[Jackson Claude]

And so she's Team Maldoni. Yeah.

[Claudia]

She called Blake a suicide bomber, which.

[Jackson Claude]

They'Re, like, cackling at all these tiktoks that are going around. So it's like, I don't like that.

[Claudia]

Yeah. And I just am at a place where I find Jamila Jamil insufferable. So, like, I'm gonna be on whatever side she's not on.

[Jackson Claude]

Right. No, that's what I'm saying. There's players on both sides where it's like, I'm not on any team here because I'm not getting along with all the teammates. Yeah, right.

[Claudia]

No, it's very confusing, and I'm not aligned. And then people are, like, freaking about the Ben Affleck email because apparently I didn't know this. There's, like, a lot of lore between Ben Affleck and Blake Lively. They filmed a movie together called the Town. She was with Penn Badgley. He was married to Jen Affleck, and there were rumors that they hooked up on set. Yeah, yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

Jennifer Gardner.

[Claudia]

What was wrong with what I said? No, no, her name was Jenna. Like, they were married. Yeah, he was married to Jennifer Gardner. There were rumors. And then, like, right after those rumors came out, he was spotted walking with Jen Affleck with a black eye.

[Chris Appleton]

Like, Like.

[Claudia]

So it's, like, funny lore. But apparently they're on great terms enough that she could ask for him to take a look at her edit.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. And those emails were also very over the top. I wound up reading them.

[Claudia]

That's so hard. Like, don't you see her talking like that is.

[Jackson Claude]

But I also can imagine if you're her friend and she wasn't always that formal, and now she's talking like this because she's just, like, scared, dotting her eyes, crossing her. T's like, everything. It's a lot.

[Claudia]

No, it's insufferable. Like, to be with a friend who's going through this, like, enormous thing, and you want to be there for them, but it can be very draining.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

So I. I relate to Taylor. People are, like, freaking that, like, in her private text messages, which she never thought the worst thing she said was, like, little. If the worst thing I said about somebody my, like, my friend hates ever got leaked, you would never see me again. I say the most vile. Okay. About people that I hate. This is Taylor's worst, most deep, but evil thought. Like, little girl people are like, she's not bad. Like, seriously, I feel like she wrote hard for her friend and her friend's enemy. Like, do we not know that about Taylor? Like, she loves her friends. I don't feel like it was, like, even remotely bad. I'm not understanding, like, the Taylor people. Like, this makes Taylor look so bad.

[Jackson Claude]

I don't think so at all.

[Claudia]

I don't think it makes her look bad at all.

[Jackson Claude]

But I wonder, like, what became the thing that really ended their friendship? Because, like, this is, like, you know, we're sort of cooling off. And then they do reconcile, but now they're in a place where they don't, like, talk, they don't follow, they don't see each other. The kid, you know? So something more stuff has happened, and.

[Claudia]

TMZ is saying that Justin Baldoni is now not going to be calling Taylor Swift as a witness. Like, everything they've gotten subpoenaed is sufficient.

[Jackson Claude]

Sufficient for what?

[Claudia]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Jackson Claude]

So that's the latest today, and it's not even March yet.

[Claudia]

I just want to say I've seen, like, a lot of people being. Please have a legal expert on, like, to talk about the Baltimore case. I would rather claw my own eyes out.

[Jackson Claude]

Absolutely.

[Claudia]

Like a lawyer. Read me these depositions. I would actually rather be dead.

[Jackson Claude]

Absolutely not. Are you ready for our next story? More than you even know, Kim Kardashian went on Chloe in Wonderland and talked about a lot of different things. One thing that might have surprised people, saying that she still listens to Taylor Swift. Swift.

[Claudia]

Yeah. It feels like she had a couple of things she wanted to clear up, and so she went on a super safe podcast, because I found the conversation about north very interesting. I didn't like, you know, people have a lot to say every time north is spotted out. She wears, like, lots of crazy colored hair and piercings and, like, you know, spiky chains, and people are like, what 12 year old is dressing like that. And I think Kim wanted the opportunity to explain. I found that part really interesting. Just about how she actually lives in a really strict house, but the one area where she lets north just sort of like free ball it as like a creative is her wardrobe. And, you know, she's the parent of an artist, son of an artist. Like, I actually, I. I really appreciated that insight. Also, like, her homeschooling thing sounds crazy. Yeah, she's a brand building class. I'm deaf.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. She makes hats and sells them.

[Claudia]

Right. Like, oh, you want to learn about math? Let's build a business. How many hats do you need to sell?

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

To make back your money.

[Jackson Claude]

She, like, goes to Fit for fashion camp over the summer. Like, she's very immersed in fashion and that's obviously her creative outlet. Plus she also produces. Right. And yeah, I think Kim, like, wanted to explain that as best as she could. But also she did a good job. I thought so too, but I also feel like, like, like I never. She knows what she's doing. Like, she doesn't have to explain it to people.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

She did talk about their parenting, which I found was so interesting. They talked a little bit about, like, their differences in parenting, but Kim was even talking about her differences in parenting her different children. She said, like, the older two have devices and, like, she was kind of like, learning on the job. And now she does different things with the younger two, like lessons learned from the older two, which was, I thought, so interesting.

[Claudia]

I mean, I imagine huge lesson learned with that Roblox thing.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, yeah, now the younger two, like, don't have devices, even though, like, Saint and North had them at those ages.

[Claudia]

I think Chloe is the strictest parent.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Well, then Kim Claremont's strict. She's, like, just very scheduled and regimented. But as far as, like, discipline, they didn't really touch on that.

[Claudia]

It's a very hot button issue. And the one time they did touch on it when Corey wanted to smack one of Scott's kids, it was a really uncomfortable.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, but there's other, like, forms of discipline, you know, like, without smacking. Yeah. Yeah. So it would have been interesting to hear more. I love when people talk about. About parenting. We've been talking about, like, parenting styles a lot. But then Chloe also says her kids are still little comparatively, so it's like she hasn't had to, like, make these big decisions yet about them.

[Claudia]

Do you feel like the format of the episode was just, like, a little weird how Chloe just opened up with, like, rapid fire that's like a game you do at the end.

[Jackson Claude]

Yes, I did. And I imagine it's, like, difficult for Chloe when she's interviewing her family where it's like, she knows everything about them. So to ask questions as if she's someone who doesn't is kind of difficult. So she's trying to ask, like, fresh questions for the audience. She wants her sisters to be comfortable, but it's kind of hard to know where to kick off. So it more so felt like she was. There are a couple stories that she feels like her sister should tell, and so she's prompting them to get them to tell those stories. There were moments where, like, it flowed better, and it was really enjoyable. But then other times, it felt very like. Next question.

[Claudia]

The podcast is very relaxing. Like, visually, it's really aesthetic. Very neutral tones. They both, the Kardashians, are often accused of, like, being monotone, and they are, like, soft speakers. So when the conversation wasn't, like, so titillating, I did find it boring. Just because it's meant to, like, lull you to sleep. I'm in wonderland. Like, it felt like a dreamlike state.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. There's a part two coming out that's meant to be, like, even juicier. But a couple things that they talked about. They talked about the elephant Birkin. Kim wanted to clear up the elephant Birkin. She said it was fake, that it was from the set of All's Fair.

[Claudia]

What's the elephant Birkin Saga? Please remind me.

[Jackson Claude]

You told me about it. She was spotted wearing an elephant bergen.

[Claudia]

Which, like, a Birkin made out of an elephant.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. From the 80s. And it's like, an elephant, which is, like.

[Claudia]

Right. I mean, I guess it's not, like, freshly made. They obviously don't do that anymore.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, but she said that she no longer wears furs that aren't vintage. She won't buy new fur. Ellen DeGeneres, like, converted her and, like, spoke to her about it. And so Ellen messaged her about the elephant. Bergen was like, what is this?

[Claudia]

And Kim said it's fake.

[Jackson Claude]

And Kim said it's fake because on the set of All's Fair, she would bring some of her Birkins, but they also had some, so she would, like, pick one up. What is she doing with a fake Birkin?

[Claudia]

She shouldn't have admitted that, because now it's like, well, which of your other bags are fake?

[Jackson Claude]

I thought that was so odd. Then they did a segment about Kardashian closet explaining how it's a.

[Claudia]

They are so passionate about Clearing the name of Kardashian Closet, because they did a whole thing on it on the season, and I feel like that put.

[Jackson Claude]

It to bed for me. I get it. And they did it again on the episode. I was like, I just watched this on the season.

[Claudia]

Except I would have loved if the Kardashians had a thrift store called Poor Little Rich Girl. And, like, all, like, you could go thrifting through the Kardashians closet. It's like a physical store. That's what it was supposed to be.

[Jackson Claude]

Before Kardashian Closet, but, like, it would be in LA and we would never go now. Kardashians, Kardashian Closet. Anyone can buy from there. She said consignment stores buy from there. Like the collectors. Like, it actually is a really great project, and it's great for cece, but I felt like that that had been thoroughly covered.

[Claudia]

It didn't bear repeating.

[Jackson Claude]

So there wasn't, like, a lot of new tea.

[Claudia]

Except the Taylor.

[Jackson Claude]

Except the Taylor. But we knew that.

[Claudia]

Yes. And it's just the same sort of tone from Kim. When Kim, the last time she was asked about this was literally, watch what happens Live, Plead the Fifth. And he was like, where are you at with Taylor Swift and the Beef? And she was like, over it. Over it. Like, very flippant about the whole situation, which is easy to have that tone about it when you weren't the injured party, because that is so not like Taylor's. Taylor hates Kim. She's still writing songs about her like it's her Roman Empire. It's the worst thing that ever happened to her. It's what Blake is referring to when she's talking about when you went through your thing, like, it is an un. And Kim is like, yeah, I'm over it.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, I still listen.

[Claudia]

How nice for you.

[Jackson Claude]

But she also listens to the old music. She made sure to say that she does. So, like, I feel like the new music is literally about her. What is she gonna be listening to? What's the one?

[Claudia]

Thank you, Amy.

[Jackson Claude]

Thank you, Amy. So, yeah, she says it's on her playlists, and I feel like they think that, like, that's juicy, but, like, we did know that already. I guess we just, like, know everything.

[Claudia]

It's also almost impossible to not listen to Taylor Swift. You know what I mean? Like, it's so embedded in. Especially she has kids. Shake it off. As I hear it everywhere now. Like, it's almost impossible to avoid the music, and I'm sure it's harder to avoid the music. I'm dying to know if any of those kids went to the art store, like in a secret suite or whatever.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, they also. They call Jonathan in the middle of the show. Yeah. I guess people thought they're not friends anymore.

[Claudia]

I kind of haven't thought about them as a duo in a while. I might have thought the same.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, they're great. He was in Miami. He was talking about Chris's party. Kim was saying that they're not throwing a party like that again for a while because it was very expensive.

[Claudia]

So I think 70th.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Of Chris. So it was. Yeah, it was really relaxing.

[Claudia]

I would have liked for her to talk about, like, that Meghan Markle photo thing.

[Jackson Claude]

Well, she did say, I should we talk about the Party Crasher. And then, like, they were in the middle of conversation and that was it.

[Claudia]

Excuse me.

[Jackson Claude]

Rewind.

[Claudia]

Yeah, but wouldn't she have said Party Crashers if the both of them.

[Jackson Claude]

Perhaps, Perhaps. But I felt like. Yeah, and honestly, like, that's a. We want to hear about. No.

[Claudia]

And Kim said at the very beginning, she said, I knew I was going to do Chloe's podcast, but we were only going to do it if we could make it really juicy. And I'm sorry, like, it is a public service. You need to tell us what the happened with those pictures.

[Jackson Claude]

It's true. So she said the second part. I mean, that's how you tease the part. Of course that's going to be like, more juice. So we'll see. But that's like, that's what we need to know.

[Claudia]

Yeah. There were, like, a couple of questions. Like, I actually was just, like, I've always been randomly curious about, like, what is Kim's natural hair? She was like, anytime you see me in a bun, like, that's my natural hair.

[Jackson Claude]

But she said the length is, like, what Chloe's was, which is like, here.

[Claudia]

Yeah. Like, and also that she does stem cell injections.

[Jackson Claude]

She does, yeah. Because she's had a journey.

[Claudia]

Yeah. And I think when you get your glam done so much, like, it's when.

[Jackson Claude]

You bleach your hair, when you have extensions, when you have wigs.

[Claudia]

Like, I think a lot of celebrities have, like, three strands of hair.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

Just from, like, the wear and tear over the years. Yeah. So she does stem cell injections in addition to, like, the supplements and the serums and things.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

That was interesting.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. But it was really just party content.

[Claudia]

Yeah, it was. It was like, give us more of that.

[Jackson Claude]

I love. I. And then I started watching Kylie's a little Bit because it came on after.

[Claudia]

This is why the Kardashians for a while have needed an in house podcast. I know, like, it took Chloe a long time to be able to like do anything public facing without like having an anxiety attack. So I'm respectful of that. But they needed this a while ago because anytime there's like, like something to talk about. Like, remember when Kim needed to address Balenciaga and she went on that really random podcast just because it was like a safe thing where she could say her piece. Like, they have needed this for a while.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. But they didn't even approach it in that way, I guess. Like, she talked about north and elephant Birkin, which were like two things that were going on. Oh, she talked. They also talked a lot about AI content about them. Oh, like how did you see those AI photos of Chloe and Victor Webb and Yama walking on the beach?

[Claudia]

That's funny.

[Jackson Claude]

So they talked about that how when Luca Donches was traded to the Lakers, there was like a fake comment from Kim being like, guess I need to learn Slovenian.

[Claudia]

I'm cracking up.

[Jackson Claude]

And then there was a comment from Luca, which no one knows if it was fake or not, being like, no, you don't.

[Claudia]

Oh, God. But Kim's comment was real.

[Jackson Claude]

No, she said, no, it was not real. So it's just like so awkward.

[Claudia]

And that shit's so annoying.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, it's so annoying. And then there was something else that was fake that they wanted to address. So like they were talking about all this stuff that that's like, like that aren't like the real things that people talk about, but I guess, sort of funny.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, and also the elephant Birkin. Like she felt like she wanted to address that. Oh, the question from Chloe, which was like, did you ever feel like there was something that your career, like, would not come back from? And Kim was like a million times. But she talked about the divorce again, which Chris Humphries. Oh, no. Funny how that's like, for me, I feel like that was the, like the, like the first time we ever doubted them.

[Claudia]

Yes. But now in hindsight, like, like it's. It's interesting that she still, like, thinks about that.

[Jackson Claude]

I think that was a really scary time because she wasn't as big as she is now. And like she had like the, like.

[Claudia]

Now there's really nothing they couldn't come back from.

[Jackson Claude]

Right. Because they're just like bigger supernovas. But at the time it was a really big deal and it was for her fans.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Because we really shipped them we felt.

[Claudia]

Like we got played especially. You remember that big drama where there was like a scene in Kardashians that was filmed totally later and cut in to make it look like Kim was always having doubts. It was like a fake scene where they like blacked out. The car was so obvious. So we really felt like we were being duped by people who were supposed. Supposed to be the opposite of that.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. And it's not like I felt like the marriage was a lie or it was fake. It just felt all very like sort of careless and.

[Claudia]

And he was a nice boy, obviously. Like, you know, in the reality show that he was brand new on, he didn't say and do everything right. But I do believe he was like a nice boy whose life they really effectively ruined.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. So I think she justice for that sister. She's right to see that time as like the most precarious in her career.

[Claudia]

Yes.

[Jackson Claude]

So it was. Yeah, interesting. But there's also so much more they could touch on. So I'm excited for part two.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

Next story is actually going to be a half story. It's going to be some movie news.

[Chris Appleton]

I like that.

[Jackson Claude]

Subset A is Oscar nominations drop today. Sinners leads with 16 nominations and then one battle after another follows with 13.

[Claudia]

I feel like, like I don't care about the Oscars. Like, I know I said I was going to try and watch the movies, but they all look, you know, more dreadful than the other. There's like a couple big headlines. Timothy was nominated, which is just great.

[Jackson Claude]

Kylie for the Kylie San.

[Claudia]

And it's really looking like. I don't know what Polymarket is saying, but he definitely has a really high chance of winning. He has won almost every award in this circuit until, you know, this point. So.

[Jackson Claude]

And he's up against Leo, Ethan Hawke in Blue Moon, Michael B. Jordan in Sinners, and Wagner Mora in the Secret Agent.

[Claudia]

You know, the greats. It must be very humbling for him.

[Jackson Claude]

Well, Wagner Mora won that other category at the Golden Globes.

[Claudia]

Oh, right. Because now it's a consolidated. It's literally Timothy versus Wagner.

[Jackson Claude]

Timothy V. Wagner. So it'll probably go to Ethan Hawke.

[Claudia]

I will quite literally only be tuning in for Kylie. So if the Oscars knows what the fuck is good for them, they will let Timothy win. It's just like, I need to see that movie. I've heard it was amazing.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, Kate Hudson is nominated for Blue Song Bird Blue. Blue Song Bird Blue. That's major good for her.

[Claudia]

I love Kate Hudson. Like, actually, I don't know if there Are a lot of people in Hollywood I could not say one negative thing about. Like there's nothing about Kate Hudson's career, clear personal life style that I don't like.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, nothing.

[Claudia]

Running point was great. No big scandal.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, she must sleep.

[Claudia]

That's why she's like, her skin is so clear.

[Jackson Claude]

Like she just sleeps well, restful eight hours.

[Claudia]

She was born wealthy.

[Jackson Claude]

She never had to worry about money. Like deep rem but turned out well.

[Claudia]

Despite the odds being stacked against her. Yeah, she's a queen for that. And now she's an Oscar nominated queen. And then the other big news is that Wicked was completely snubbed. No Ariana, no Cynthia. Like, do you even go? I don't think the movie was nominated for any.

[Jackson Claude]

It might have been nominated for like music. No, no.

[Claudia]

Their original songs were left out of the original song category.

[Jackson Claude]

Not that I have a lot against Wicked. A couple of things, but I kind of just like love the drama of that.

[Claudia]

No, I like that they. I hate when people so obviously do things like for a reason. And them making two movies was just like a money grab and them creating really bad original music for the second movie was to get an Oscar nomination. And so when you try really hard to get something and you don't get it. Ha haha.

[Jackson Claude]

Wait, so they won't even go? Why would they go?

[Claudia]

Unless it's like as a presenter. But no. Do you get invited? I mean, of course Ariana and Cynthia can go wherever they want, but like if they wanted to go, I'm sure they could sneak an invite.

[Jackson Claude]

But they shouldn't go because they've been like thoroughly snubbed. Best original song, Dear Me from Diane Warren. Relentless.

[Claudia]

Give it to Diane Warren. Has she still not won?

[Jackson Claude]

I don't think she.

[Claudia]

What is it like 60 nominations, but.

[Jackson Claude]

Like golden is nominated from K Pop Demon Hunters.

[Claudia]

We're going to up, up, up. It's our moment, you know, together.

[Jackson Claude]

We're going, gonna be, gonna be all.

[Claudia]

And give it to them.

[Jackson Claude]

Like seriously give it to them. That was the song of the year from the movie of the year. I lied to you from Sinners.

[Claudia]

Like those people. Whoever is nominated for golden, like Will most likely. Oh no, I don't think you can win a Tony. But they'll be egots. They'll win a Grammy for it. Yeah, and not an Emmy. Sorry. Okay, so there'll be a go.

[Jackson Claude]

Grammy. Okay.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

But they seem very talented and they can win Emmys and Tonys. Sweet Dreams from Viva Verde and Train Dreams. So obviously golden should win and if golden doesn't win because they just like, like to be different. I vote Diane Maury.

[Claudia]

Me too. Like, seriously, she is Leonardo DiCaprio of the musical industry and she deserves her flowers.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Oh, I guess Miley didn't get nominated. She did a song for Avatar. That's messed up stuff. So, yeah, Oscars.

[Claudia]

Looking forward to seeing Kylie there.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Some more movie news is Sydney Sweeney will star in an Edith Wharton adaptation, Custom of the Country.

[Claudia]

Just when you think you know Sydney Sweeney, she's being an only fans model on Euphoria, and then she's being like a lesbian boxer. Here she is being a socialite in.

[Jackson Claude]

The Gilded Age and you know, name Eudine Sprague.

[Claudia]

She's so Eudine. There is actually interesting backstory behind this. It was originally greenlit as a TV show on Apple starring Florence Pugh, but Apple, I think, thought it was gonna be too expensive. And it's quite literally the Gilded Age. Like, they already did it. No one's gonna do it better than Julian Fellowes. And it got canceled and now it's being, like, repurposed in a movie form.

[Jackson Claude]

Honestly, it has all the makings. So it's called Custom of the Country.

[Chris Appleton]

It is.

[Claudia]

She's trying to, like. She's like this ne' er do well who's trying to crack into high society.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. She's an ambitious Midwest woman who attempts to ascend the social ladder in the turn of the century New York, Gilded Age. As described in the official press release release, Undine Sprag is armed with beauty, daring hustle, and sheer force of will and unwavering ambition. She battles an entrenched elite, fearlessly courting controversy until love and fortune align.

[Claudia]

Now I have to see the housemaid, so I'm like, a little behind. But I just haven't, like, quite figured out yet if Sydney Sweeney is a terrible actress. Because when I watched her in Euphoria, I was dazzled. I was like, oh, my God, she is the talent of our generation. And then I watched her in Anyone but you and I said, how did this girl get out of community theater? Like, it was shocking to see. See, I do believe those are the only things I've seen her in. So, like, I don't know where I personally landed in her acting ability.

[Jackson Claude]

So, I mean, Lotus, she was like, oh, she was great. Yeah, she was great. But that's like, no offense, like, an easy job to, like, sit on a beach chair and be a.

[Claudia]

That's how I also feel about Euphoria. Like, she's just this, like, Young girl playing a young girl. Like a modern.

[Jackson Claude]

I think playing Undine Sprague will be really telling.

[Claudia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

And if she can, like, transport us and it just doesn't feel like we're watching Sydney Sweeney in the. Like a petticoat. Yeah.

[Claudia]

Right.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, I.

[Claudia]

If she's like, it's gonna either be like, a dazzling performance or, like a live action role play.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

Of her, like, doing a Civil War reenactment.

[Jackson Claude]

But it sounds really good. And I. I'll be sad. Yeah.

[Claudia]

I do think people are, like, hyper fixated on this era in New York because the Gilded Age apparently turned out to be an amazing show. When I was watching, I hated it.

[Jackson Claude]

I don't think it turned out to be an amazing show because people were saying it was amazing even during the things we didn't like.

[Claudia]

Well, like, Stassi says, it's so good. It's like her whole personality.

[Jackson Claude]

But she was saying that season one.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

So she just liked it.

[Claudia]

Season one was fine. Like, it took a couple of episod to be better, but it was fine. They really lost me on the second season. I couldn't even finish it.

[Jackson Claude]

I don't know if I watched the second season.

[Claudia]

People say it's so good. Jackie, though. Do we give it another chance?

[Jackson Claude]

Maybe I would give. I have a lot on my plate right now. I'm behind on a couple things. Maybe I would give it another chance, but I don't know. Maybe because I'm a history major with a concentration in that time, for sure. I feel very close to it.

[Claudia]

Well, as a media major, I find media fascinating.

[Jackson Claude]

No, you don't. Like, I did take a course on New York, and of course, as someone who watched the Ken Burns documentary, I feel very close to it.

[Claudia]

I imagine actually that whilst making this project, like, leading up to it, Julian Fellows probably did watch the Ken Burns documentary and, like, maybe took a course. So I think that, like, we're at the same level.

[Jackson Claude]

I just would have done something different.

[Claudia]

Of course. Of course.

[Jackson Claude]

Are you ready for our fifth and final story?

[Claudia]

Like, I wouldn't have cast Cynthia Nixon, I'll tell you that.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, hell, no.

[Claudia]

But that she's a real modern woman. Like, I'm sorry. Sorry.

[Chris Appleton]

She.

[Claudia]

It's a blessing and a curse to be, like, such a famous actress for.

[Jackson Claude]

One particular thing, recognizable.

[Claudia]

Because I'm like, what the hell is Miranda doing in the 16th century? Or whatever.

[Jackson Claude]

I actually would have cleared the decks on the cast. I really don't feel like anyone was well cast except for Christine Brinzanski.

[Claudia]

Carrie Coon.

[Jackson Claude]

No.

[Claudia]

Who plays the Russell?

[Jackson Claude]

No.

[Claudia]

Oh, she's excellent.

[Jackson Claude]

The other auntie.

[Claudia]

Oh, slay the house down Boots Auntie. I love her. Cynthia's sister. Yep.

[Jackson Claude]

And the dog, Pumpkin.

[Claudia]

Marianne. Man, she sucks. Gloria, like. No, she's supposed to be Gloria Vanderbilt. What's the daughter's name of Carrie Coon. She sucks, too.

[Jackson Claude]

She's also Consuelo.

[Claudia]

Yes. Sorry. Thank you. And the husband of Carrie Coon.

[Jackson Claude]

Get out of here. Russell. They're.

[Claudia]

I think they're the Russell family.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, yeah. Because why would they call them first name Mrs. Russell?

[Claudia]

You're wrong.

[Jackson Claude]

She's amazing. I disagree. But it's also because of the accent of the time that. That, like, transatlantic accent, like, just. We're so not used to it. It's like it's extinct. So it just sounds funny to us.

[Claudia]

Yes, yes. But at least it's historically accurate.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, yeah. No, but no, I disagree on her. She would go with her husband.

[Claudia]

No, you're wrong.

[Jackson Claude]

Fifth and final story will lean into TV recap. Tell me Lies. So inside the love lives of the Tell Me Lies cast. This week, we found out of two new couplings from the Lies cast. So we have. We know Stephen and Stephen and Lucy are dating in real life. Pippa and Wrigley are dating in real life. And Evan and Molly are dating in real life.

[Claudia]

Okay.

[Jackson Claude]

These two.

[Claudia]

By the way, who the is Molly?

[Jackson Claude]

Like, so last season, he tried to bat. He tried to rebound with.

[Claudia]

Okay, so she's, like, a rando, right?

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, she always really liked him. He, like, gave her the time of day when, like, Brie was moving on, but he was always, like, hung up on Brie, so it obviously didn't work out because she wanted something more serious and he wanted Brie. So they broke up. But now this season, she's like, oh, I could do casual.

[Claudia]

Right? Right.

[Jackson Claude]

But she's obviously not doing casual.

[Claudia]

She's such a. For telling them about Diana. Like, I. Oh, sorry. Spoilers start now.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Tell me Lies recap starts now.

[Claudia]

I hate her. Like, seriously hate.

[Jackson Claude]

She was, like, stupid in the way that she went about it, but nothing about the way that Diana shared the information with her was, like, proprietary. She's, like, talking on the steps.

[Claudia]

No, she's being very casual about very slipping.

[Jackson Claude]

She never said said, like, obviously that's not something you should share. But she never said, like, please don't tell anyone.

[Claudia]

Especially, I feel like that girl only said it because she, like, wants Evan to like her, and she, like, she knew it would be a valuable asset 1,000%.

[Jackson Claude]

But Diana is a very smart person. So to tell the person who wants to be in Evan's good favor when Evan is best friends and partially living with Stephen, like, well, that's gonna get around.

[Claudia]

Now, I know that Steven has been evil since the first episode, but something about this season is, like, highly elevated. He's literally, like, diabolical. It's actually painful to watch. Like, I don't. I had to watch all the. I watched three out of four episodes last night, and, like, it left me feeling, like, very emotionally tired. I am looking forward to watching one episode a week. It is a lot like him. Like, in that tunnel, filming a video, like a Hamas terrorist, like, was so distressing. And it's just, like, he's an amazing actor, and it's such a terrible character. I'm having a really hard time watching it. Him specifically. And I'm enjoying the show so much. Outside of Lucy and Steven, they've really, like, built all the characters. I love Brady. Like, Brie is my girl. She's so cute. What is that haircut they gave her? It's her.

[Jackson Claude]

She got that haircut in the off season, so they made it work.

[Claudia]

Big mistake. Huge. Put an extension in. Like, she looks horrible. When they go flashing back to the wedding, it's, like, better, but she looks.

[Jackson Claude]

Like she's in the 90s. Like, it looks like a haircut for a 90s show starring a boy.

[Claudia]

Like, she looks terrible. I hate the hair.

[Jackson Claude]

Brie and Wrigley, like, just warm my heart, especially because, like, Peppa. Like, Pippa.

[Claudia]

Peppa.

[Jackson Claude]

Pippa, like, only likes Wrigley as a friend now. So it's like, Pippa would be so happy for them. Like, they're so happy together. Diana is my favorite person on this show.

[Claudia]

She is a queen.

[Jackson Claude]

She is such a queen. And so I'm happy, like, to see her happy with Pippa and, like, everything, like, works out nicely for everyone except.

[Claudia]

For Wrigley and Bray.

[Jackson Claude]

Well, in the future, of course. But no, like, if everyone.

[Claudia]

If they break up, like, it's okay. Pippa feels like she can't break up with him because he's, like, on suicidal.

[Jackson Claude]

She doesn't know that, like, he has his eye on Brie, and he's, like, he's doing well. Yeah.

[Claudia]

He's thriving. And, you know, she was really there for him. Like, she's a good.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, she's a good friend. They are friends.

[Claudia]

I feel like when they started the show and we were at the wedding, and, like, we only know Lucy and Like, Pippa's this, like, curmudgeony, like, Svabisina. I'm, like. I was, like, hating her, but I love her. She's, like, a good friend and she's a good person. The Chris McMillan stuff. What's his name? Chris. The brother. Lydia.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Chris.

[Claudia]

Yeah. Oh, my God. It gives me such a pit. Such a bad situation Lucy has found herself in.

[Jackson Claude]

It really is. But she does keep making it worse because she could have said in that meeting.

[Claudia]

She could.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, if she had said in that meeting, she told the truth. Like, oh, it didn't. When I said that, it didn't happen to me, but it did happen to my friend. So I just wanted to corroborate your story without, like, throwing my friend under the bus. Cause she's not ready to talk about it.

[Claudia]

Please leave me alone.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, like, that would have been that in terms of, like, Katie looking to Lucy and also the dean keeping calling her in. And. Yeah, it's not a good thing to do, but she wouldn't have been, like, kicked out of school for it.

[Claudia]

I just want to say if only, like, school administrators were so, like, crossing their eyes and dotting their T's on, like, campus rape. It's, like, impossible to get arrested if you.

[Jackson Claude]

Well, you are seeing that with Katie, because she did make an allegation that she didn't have enough.

[Claudia]

Right. But I just would have a hard time that, like, especially in, like, 2009, like, all these administrators were, like, doing what they like doing their most.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. So she keeps making it worse for herself. And obviously, how does she not see that Steven's behind this? That Stephen, Lucy. That Stephen. Yeah. Of course he's building it up so that he can then post the video if he posted it right now. Like, he's making her sick with it.

[Claudia]

I love the drug dealer and I want him to end.

[Jackson Claude]

I don't love the great, but it's like, brother, sister.

[Claudia]

But it's not like, I just. It was giving, like, a book. I feel like I've read a book where, like, two foster kids, like, met in this terrible house and ended up, like, falling in love or whatever.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. I'm not loving the drug dealer. And, like, it seems like Lucy's going down a dark path now, but isn't.

[Claudia]

It, like, a dark path of forgiveness? Like, I was confused. Well, you like to be beat into submission, so let me, like, beat forgiveness and love into you. That. Is that what's going on? On?

[Jackson Claude]

Sort of. It's like a humiliation ritual also to make her a better Person, I'm confused. But also at the wedding, they keep referencing what Steven did to you sophomore year. And I feel like that's what's coming in terms of the video. And I feel like she's going to start self harming because the thing with the burn on her leg, like, it just felt like.

[Claudia]

Yeah, that was random.

[Jackson Claude]

It felt like a foreshadow.

[Claudia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

And she's also like, seeking out, like more aggressive partners. And. And so I, I feel like she's going to get into a very dark place of like, self harm and self loathing that Stephen brought her to. And that's what they keep talking about at the wedding. What Stephen did to you sophomore year, also last season at the wedding. Her and Stephen and Lucy.

[Claudia]

Yeah, like the night before.

[Jackson Claude]

No.

[Claudia]

So it's like, it's painful because you're watching this and you think it's like resolved itself by the time of the wedding, but they're still very much in it. And I cannot remember what really went on with that bartender. So the bartender was her date at the wedding, right? Until.

[Jackson Claude]

That's her boyfriend.

[Claudia]

Until she ditched him and he left.

[Jackson Claude]

Right. Oh, did he? He's not there.

[Claudia]

He's not there.

[Jackson Claude]

Need to give us wedding flashbacks as well.

[Claudia]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Like, remember she brought her.

[Jackson Claude]

I thought that was her boyfriend.

[Claudia]

She brought him to the hot tub to have sex with him just so she could like, tell Stephen that she had sex with him. Or Steven was like right outside and watched the whole thing. I mean, he figured out. He was like, you're sick and left.

[Jackson Claude]

And Lucy, I do not root for Lucy. I do not like Lucy. She has like sweet moments when she's with the girls, but she makes poor choices over and over again. Like even having sex with Stephen at the wedding five years, six years later, like, you're grown, you know what you're.

[Claudia]

Out of the college.

[Jackson Claude]

What he did to you sophomore year, everyone keeps talking about. So they're kind of perfect for each other at this point. Might as well be together and stop ruining other people's lives.

[Claudia]

When you said last season when we were recapping and I kept thinking about it, it's like Lucy has these huge issues. Like she is caught in these lies, like, life ruining stuff. And they would all go away if she just transferred.

[Jackson Claude]

Right?

[Claudia]

And I just like, need to tell her that I'm like, girl, switch schools. She does, does apply for this study abroad program, which of course she's not going to go on.

[Jackson Claude]

And of course she's Late. Does she give a About.

[Claudia]

How is she still in school?

[Jackson Claude]

How is she still in school? She only, like, she applies herself when it's, like, convenient. And of course, the administrator's, like, giving her an extension on the application because of the sexual assaulting. They think she was trying to get away from that. And so whenever this video comes out, it's also going to affect her study abroad.

[Claudia]

Iris Apatow jumps scare.

[Jackson Claude]

What's that? Who's that?

[Claudia]

Iris Apatow.

[Jackson Claude]

What does she do?

[Claudia]

Look at me at there.

[Jackson Claude]

Ready? Who does she play?

[Claudia]

Iris Apatow.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Did she come into the show? Yeah. As who?

[Claudia]

The freshman who's seeing Oliver.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, that's Iris Apatow.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

You don't recognize her?

[Jackson Claude]

No.

[Claudia]

Oh, you signed.

[Jackson Claude]

I'm more of a mod girl.

[Chris Appleton]

Wow.

[Jackson Claude]

She grew up fast.

[Claudia]

I know. I was like, wait, this girl either really looks like Iris Apatow or she's grown.

[Jackson Claude]

No.

[Claudia]

And it's her.

[Jackson Claude]

Wow. I haven't seen her since this is 40.

[Claudia]

Literally. I haven't seen her since, like, Olivia Rodrigo's Instagram. They're best friends.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, so she's, like, a girly.

[Claudia]

She's like a swirly about town. Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

Interesting.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Brie going to confront Oliver. Also bad. Like, it's just. But you also have to remember, like, they're college students. I know you're, like, not making the best decisions.

[Claudia]

Like, it's. They're young girls, and this group just needs to be disbanded.

[Jackson Claude]

I know, but, like, Brie and. And Lucy, they're. They are playing up the friendship this season, but they do have a true friendship. And the fact that, like, Lucy would debase herself to protect Bri's feelings, whereas it's sweet, but wrong and misguided because Bri should just know. I don't. She would. Obviously, it would affect their friendship. I think they could come back from it. She doesn't even like Evan at that moment. She should have told her earlier, before she's, like, too late. Now she's going back to Evan.

[Claudia]

Also, like, there are two people who have, like, successfully untangled themselves from Steven, and that's Wrigley and Diana. And they are so elevated. Like, when I watch him, I feel peace. And I got, like, not annoyed, like, scared for Diana. And she was scared, too. Cause she, like, did get, like, now that she's, you know, pregnant, she got.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, wrote back in. Wrote back in.

[Claudia]

And it's like, girl, like, I just want her out. I want her safe. I want her just, like, free from his grip and wrigley has reached a state of enlightenment. Diana was there as well, and I'm just joyful for them, really overjoyed. And I need everybody to get on their level. Like, I need them to have. And you're expecting a lot from college kids. These are, like, borderline teenagers who. Like, our group think so. But if they could all just sort of, like, band together and, like, just decide to like him.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

It would make me feel a lot better.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. Which is why Diana, like, sharing the pregnancy, like, so publicly and flippantly is incongruous with the Diana that we know, who worked all last September, last semester to affect. Like, to successfully disentangle Ghost Stephen and make him think it was his idea. And now not only, like, are you very connected to him in this moment?

[Claudia]

You're starting stuff.

[Jackson Claude]

And she told him, like, I'm actually fine with my dad. Like, wait, wait. So he's like, yeah, like, all the work you did. She showed her hand. Like, that was just not very Diana. Like.

[Claudia]

I know, but she's, like, going through a lot. She's maybe in a state of distress. The hormones, you know.

[Jackson Claude]

She doesn't seem like she's in a state of distress.

[Claudia]

No, that's Diana.

[Chris Appleton]

She keeps it cool. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

And now she has her lady love.

[Claudia]

And she knows she's religious. Jew in real life.

[Jackson Claude]

She is.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

I didn't know that.

[Claudia]

I know. When I found that out, I was really surprised.

[Jackson Claude]

But, no, she has her lady love, like, every. You know, she's got her job lined up and her l. Sad scores and just triple check.

[Claudia]

I heard that, like, a million years ago, and I told it to Ben. He's like, are you sure? Because she was like, you know, shirt off, like, making out on the show. I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure she's religious. Diana. Tell me lies.

[Jackson Claude]

Maybe it's someone else from a different.

[Claudia]

No, I'm right. Hold on. They think I'm asking the character. Diana. Actress. Oh, Alicia Crowder is her name. No, I think I'm making this up.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay, that's okay. It happens.

[Claudia]

I just want to just triple check.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, there's Iris Apatow.

[Claudia]

Yeah, right. Where did I hear that?

[Jackson Claude]

When she's dating Sam Nivola, which. Who's the little brother from White Lotus.

[Claudia]

And she was dating Joe Alwyn's little brother Patrick.

[Jackson Claude]

And that's when she was hanging out with Taylor. She would hang out with Taylor. Cool. Yeah.

[Claudia]

Fully maned it up.

[Jackson Claude]

Lydia.

[Claudia]

Lydia.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay. She fully made that up. Thank you for clarifying.

[Claudia]

I'm Sorry, I have to tell Ben.

[Jackson Claude]

Let him go.

[Claudia]

I'm so excited to tell. Oh, my God.

[Jackson Claude]

He's going to. They're gonna have her on.

[Claudia]

So tell us about your faith. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

[Jackson Claude]

So that's your Tell Me Lies recap. Seriously, the craziest show, but very immersive and, like, very anxiety inducing and pit worthy.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

If you're into that sort of thing.

[Claudia]

Oh, and Wrigley without his hair is a completely different person.

[Jackson Claude]

Wrigley is my favorite person on the show.

[Claudia]

Agreed.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, easily.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

And so what's gonna happen with Brie and Evan in the wedding now that. And also Steven knows.

[Claudia]

Well, I guess, like, Steven, like, the show can continue now. Cause the show can. Like, the show thrives when Steven has things on his friends in which to manipulate and hold over their heads. And. And so he was kind of running out.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. And also, like, I think the show, the Pat. The 2009 will end when they graduate because without, like, the show is about college, Steven and Lucy, and then they could pick it up with just, like, 2015 stuff, like what happens after. But they've said that this is going to be the last season. I think the showrunners said that. Oh, and it would be, like, perfect.

[Claudia]

Because they're graduating the older. The older ones.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

And, you know, I didn't go to a real college, so I don't know how, like, the dynamics work. But the school does seem very similar to the school that you went to. Would three freshmen and three juniors at the time, like, have become, like, a girl gang? Like, they only hang out with each other, the six of them, and they're different ages.

[Jackson Claude]

Well, in the beginning, they're all dating each other, and at some point, one is always dating another. It seems like the girls only go to frat parties at their house, which is possible. But. Yes, there are other people at the school.

[Claudia]

Right. But they seek other friendships.

[Jackson Claude]

They keep coming back to the three and the three. But I guess someone is always dating someone in that group. So, like, you are gonna always go where your friend's boyfriend is.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

And that's how you're gonna start your night.

[Claudia]

Okay.

[Jackson Claude]

So it's not impossible, but, like, there are other people.

[Claudia]

It's a huge school.

[Jackson Claude]

It seems it's not huge, but, like, there's definitely other fraternities, other parties that, like, the girls could go to, that the boys can't go to other human beings to interact. But Lucy does always find someone the worst person. Yes, but was Leo bad?

[Claudia]

No, he was sweet. He wasn't bad enough for Lucy.

[Jackson Claude]

He wasn't bad enough for her. Yeah.

[Claudia]

Well, that's your Tommy Lies recap. And we are going to turn you over to our guest interview with Chris Appleton, who we were just like, truly humbled to be in the presence of. So thank you guys for watching today's episode. I hope you enjoy this fabulous interview that is brought to you by Bare Bells, the protein bar.

[Jackson Claude]

Bar.

[Claudia]

The only protein bar that I really feel like eating because it's delicious, it's packed with protein and as you guys know, I'm on my health journey. So are you like one of the many Americans who are making get more protein as their New Year's resolution? Well, if you are, you need Bear Bells, the protein bar that puts taste first while still bringing you 15 to 20 grams of protein in every single bar. When I first tried one, I could not believe that it was like a good protein packed, good calorie. Because when I was done on my first semaglutide journey, everybody was like, you need to keep up with your protein in order to stay full. And I don't like historically like protein bars. I've never been one to like reach for a protein bar. And everybody was like, try Bear bells. They're nlopp, not like other protein. And you guys were right. They have over 20 delicious flavors. I have one every single morning. I like the chocolate dough flavor. I've recently been dabbling in the cookies and cream one. They really are the best tasting protein bars out there. Over 20 delicious flavors. They are the most delicious way to get your protein in having one on you. I have them at the studio. I have them always in my purse wherever I am. I want to be able to get a bear bell. And we have a great code. If you guys, you guys go to bearbell.com. their website is Bare Bells. Excuse me. B A R E B E-L-L L S.com use our code Toast at checkout for 15 off your order. That's bearbells.com today. Our code is T o a s t. Use that a checkout. It will get you 15 off your order at Bear Bells. B A R e B e l l s.com code t o a-s dash t Today's episode is also brought to you by Haya Health. So everyone's talking about New Year's resolutions, but the one thing that really could impact your family for decades is your kids health. Well, here's something that might be keeping you up at night as a parent is that our kids are the first generation growing up on ultra processed foods. What are the long term effects? And I know a lot of parents who listen to the show are always looking for great ways to what we say in, in the old country, sht up your kid with a nice boost. It's a boost, it's a shtipping boost from Haya.

[Jackson Claude]

Let's just change their name to sht up.

[Claudia]

Great idea. So Haya exists to give parents a real solution and a market flooded with products that prioritize candy like appeal over actual nutrition. So some kids vitamins on the market today contain up to 7 grams of sugar per serving. They're stuffed with artificial additives, petroleum based dyes. Well, Haya is the total opposite approach. Zero sugar, zero gummy junk. It's clean nutrition that shockingly your kids will love the taste, the experience of it all. It's very thoughtfully designed. It really looks at what modern kids are actually eating or not eating. And they formula, they formulate around those specific nutritional gaps. So they've got vitamin D, D, B12C, zinc folate, the nutritional ingredients, the foundational nutritional ingredients that support your immune health, energy levels, brain function, mood regulation, concentration and the development of strong teeth and bones. Non gmo, vegan, dairy free, allergy free, gelatin free, nut free. They've really thought of everything. Kids love it. You should see how my niece Michaela like flies across the house when it's time. She puts like stickers all over the bottle. It's really cute. They have a special offer for our listeners for their best selling children vitamin@hiah health.com toast that link will get you 50% off your first order. To claim the deal you must go to Haya Health H I Y A H E A l dot com toast to get your kids the full body nourishment that they need to grow into healthy adults. Today's episode is also brought to you by Nature Sunshine. When we need to stay locked in. It's very tempting to reach for caffeinated products but those do make you feel jittery. They come in an intense crash. They just don't have you feeling your best. While nature's Sunshine Brain edge combines hand harvested yerba mate with powerful nootropics to support focus, memory and cognitive performance without the crash. It's a clean plant powered drink mix that you can enjoy hot or cold so you have a shortcut to help you stay focused, alert and sharpen that memory at any time. What we like to call here at the Toast Brain camp. So nature Sunshine enhances focus and Clarity. The nootropic botanicals help you concentrate and stay sharp. It will support memory and learning, so it promotes recall mental stamina phenomena. With great ingredients, it delivers smooth, sustained energy. It's sourced with purpose so you can feel good. Good knowing it's wild. Harvested by indigenous communities in the South American rainforest. And it's made by Nature Sunshine, which is a trusted brand with over 50 years of experience sourcing the most pure and potent ingredients from nature. So do not fight through foggy and lethargic feelings. Do not reach for crap. Ignite your mental performance with brain edge. Nature Sunshine is offering 20 off your first order, plus free shipping. Shipping. When you go to naturessunshine.com use code toast@ checkout. That's code T O A s [e-mail]. check it out today. Code T O A S T. Thank you, Jackie, for joining me today. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on my show and enjoy our Chris Appleton interview. It is really. If you were an OG breather, you'll recognize this feeling. And if you weren't, here's a little bit of what it was like. Like to be a brother.

[Jackson Claude]

Enjoy. Welcome back to the toast. Today's guest is years in the making. Here at the Toast, we have Chris Appleton, hair stylist, author, and second time toast guest. Chris, welcome to the toast.

[Chris Appleton]

I'm back.

[Claudia]

Not only are you back, I am so excited. If you were to say, Claudia, you could have anyone in the world cut your hair, like, who would you want to cut your hair?

[Chris Appleton]

Hair?

[Claudia]

It's celebrity stylist Chris Appleton. Every time I go get my hair cut, I have an inspo pic from celebrity hairstylist Chris Appleton.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay.

[Claudia]

He's here talking about his book. And we said, well, how can we make this a little bit more Jackson Claude coated? And I said, you know, I'm gonna use my platform and I'm getting a haircut. A free haircut from Chris Appleton.

[Jackson Claude]

A live haircut.

[Claudia]

Oh, live. Yes. This whole thing's happening live. Chris is gonna.

[Chris Appleton]

I have no idea. We've not spoke.

[Claudia]

Okay. So I have inspiration pictures. We're gonna talk to you about your book. You told us you're selling your business. Like, we have a lot to catch up with you on. And we're also really excited to about.

[Jackson Claude]

Talk, sort of redeem ourselves. Yeah.

[Claudia]

We need to right some wrongs.

[Jackson Claude]

I don't know if you know, the last time you were on the Toast haunts us. We dress up for our show.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, my God. This is so rude.

[Jackson Claude]

That's okay.

[Chris Appleton]

Just bl me. I was like, who is that? I'm like, oh, it's me. I'm like.

[Jackson Claude]

So we always, you know, do our hair makeup for the show in the best way that we can. The one time that you came on our show, we were headed to the airport right after. And so we airport looks. And we felt like such disheveled clowns when you came on the show. And we always say, like, we can't ever look like that because of Chris Appleton. The time that Chris Appleton came on the toes.

[Claudia]

Kind of like the Chris Appleton theory.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah, that, like, we were slobs when Chris Appleton came on the Toast. So, like, when we saw that you're doing press for your book, we were so excited to have you come on the toast so we could redeem ourselves, show you that we are not slob like women. And Claudia could get the haircut of her dreams, which is very much in theme with your new book. And it is part self help, part memoirs. Your roots don't define you by Chris Appleton. We love a celebrity memoir here at the toast. So we're gonna talk to you all about your book and also sort of like art imitating life. Do a haircut. Have a therapy session with Chris Appleton.

[Chris Appleton]

It's like you're actually in my chair. We always talk about being in my chair. Everyone keeps saying, what is it about sitting in a stylish chair? And you become a therapist. Maybe you not be might think you should break a career out.

[Jackson Claude]

I'm trying to get Claudia to open up.

[Claudia]

I am an onion. I have lots of layers. And just. What do you want to know, Chris?

[Jackson Claude]

What do you want to know?

[Chris Appleton]

I'm going to open you up.

[Claudia]

Well, Chris. Oh, okay.

[Chris Appleton]

Terrible.

[Claudia]

Do it.

[Chris Appleton]

Chris, that was awful.

[Claudia]

I just want you to know, like, so much of being a girl, like, of girlhood is getting your hair cut and, like, crying afterwards.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, I feel like that as a hairstylist.

[Chris Appleton]

You look beautiful.

[Claudia]

Of course you know that, like, everybody cries.

[Chris Appleton]

Of course.

[Claudia]

And why do your stylists, like, sometimes not listen when you say, like, I only want to cut one inch and they cut four.

[Chris Appleton]

I think it's because I honestly don't know why they do that.

[Claudia]

Maybe they know better.

[Jackson Claude]

Maybe you had four inches of dead.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. Or they'll be like, you're, like, one size longer than over. Like. No, what it is is your head actually goes to the side slightly. So if you actually just sort of walk around like this, you look perfect. Better or the color's not that, well, if you turn the lights off, it's better.

[Claudia]

Perfect color.

[Chris Appleton]

It's like. So we don't have lights. I don't know. It's just sometimes a thing of like, I think it's just covering the tracks.

[Claudia]

Right, right, right. Well, I feel very confident. I'm going to show you some inspo pics.

[Chris Appleton]

Let's see. First of all, you have great hair.

[Claudia]

So thank you so much. The inspo picture is you.

[Chris Appleton]

That's gorgeous.

[Claudia]

I have recently, like, my hair grows.

[Chris Appleton]

Really?

[Jackson Claude]

Show us.

[Claudia]

Oh, okay. So it's this beautiful. Who's this? A model.

[Chris Appleton]

She was my friend, actually. We did over during the COVID Oh, no, she's still on.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay.

[Chris Appleton]

She's gonna be like. Yeah, exactly. No, she is my friend and we shot it during COVID Okay.

[Claudia]

It's gorgeous.

[Chris Appleton]

Time of change, when in fact, everything changed during COVID Yeah. Oh, really?

[Claudia]

Was that a big time for you?

[Chris Appleton]

Well, especially business wise.

[Claudia]

Right.

[Chris Appleton]

Because it nearly went wrong and really. Right.

[Claudia]

So why I like this? I'll explain. I love big, bouncy layers. Like, I love face framing. And I'm like, sort of on, like a weight loss journey. So I need my frame to face, like, layers to, like, make it look skinnier, if that makes sense.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay.

[Claudia]

I like my length and I don't think I have a lot of dead, so I'm not looking to change the length so much more. So you get more bounce and movement.

[Chris Appleton]

Who is your, like, hair. Hair icon?

[Claudia]

Well, I don't have so much hair icons because celebrities change their hair so much. I have, like, looks that are in, like, the hall of fame for me. JLo at the super bowl, which I know was you.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, okay. You want to walk around with that every day.

[Claudia]

Kim's like, really dark chocolate, like, PC layers, long hair.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, that's cute.

[Jackson Claude]

Love that.

[Claudia]

So I have like, the same sort of like very Victoria's Secret, Chelsea blowout bombshell.

[Chris Appleton]

What don't you. I mean, obviously you look so you really like the length of the minute. So maybe I'm interpreting that. You don't necessarily love, like, how heavy it is.

[Claudia]

Yes. So my hair grows really fast. These pieces at one point were much shorter. And I just like when there's more movement.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, like more viva. Because, I mean, if you look at your face shape, you've got a beautiful face shape. You've got, like, an oval face shape.

[Claudia]

Oh, my God. So you think I'm skinny. Okay.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, I love that. Was it different before?

[Claudia]

Yes, it was a little bit more round.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay. So now it's gone into oval.

[Claudia]

Yeah, of course, of course.

[Chris Appleton]

But because your hair is so heavy, what can happen sometimes it can start to wear you. You know what I mean? Like, the hair should have, like, that sexy movement and should move as you walk, whereas at the minute, it's quite heavy. Like, if you move it, the whole thing moves.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

So it'd be nice if it had, like, a little bit more of a kind of va, va voom, like, sexy vibe. I think it'd be really nice to open up your cheekbones a little bit. Would you be open to taking this shorter?

[Jackson Claude]

Yes.

[Claudia]

Yes, yes. But how much shorter?

[Jackson Claude]

I'm gonna say yes to everything.

[Chris Appleton]

Yes Club.

[Jackson Claude]

You have to trust.

[Claudia]

Oh, am I getting, like, a crazy haircut?

[Jackson Claude]

Chef's choice. Chef's choice. Give her a best choice.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. A lot of. I will say this is kind of hair a lot of viewers watching will relate to, because a lot of girls have this kind of hair. I'll be honest with you. It's beautiful, but it's almost a bit like, you know, when you're at school and you're a kid and you just.

[Jackson Claude]

Have middle school hair. That's what we call it.

[Claudia]

Oh, my God. No, you didn't. I just got my middle school hair.

[Chris Appleton]

No, it goes there a little bit. Just because you're, like, a sexy lady and, like, so much. I think you're into that now, and it'd be nice to feel that when you kind of run your fingers through your hair, it's got that kind of movement.

[Claudia]

I agree.

[Chris Appleton]

It's not just like, hanging, you know, so.

[Claudia]

But that doesn't mean it is just hanging. Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

That doesn't mean you have to cut all your hair off. So I think we. I open up the cheekbones a little bit here. So I think the shortest part should be, like, around here.

[Claudia]

That's, like, by my eyes.

[Chris Appleton]

I know. I think it'd be. But it's going to be very face. I don't even have a big old bag.

[Jackson Claude]

It's a once in a lifetime haircut.

[Claudia]

It is a once in a lifetime haircut.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay.

[Chris Appleton]

We're going to kind of basically lighten up through here with layers and giving it shape.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

But you have this really beautiful wave. So I want it to be able to, like, dry air. Dry naturally as well.

[Jackson Claude]

So you have to do it.

[Claudia]

Yes.

[Chris Appleton]

But if you do, it'll that, like, bombshell, like, Hamlet, Anderson, 90s sexy.

[Claudia]

Okay. We're just, like, doing it.

[Jackson Claude]

We're doing it. Let it rip.

[Chris Appleton]

I really love the length. I think it's great. But I'll be honest with you. Like, the length is literally like one length. So this is going to be.

[Claudia]

It's one length. Yes. And that's not what I want.

[Chris Appleton]

Not what you want. This is just going to be a. Are you 20? You know what I mean? We're just hit to the next level. Change isn't always about cutting your hair off. It's just like finding out who you are. Like, you say you want to feel a little bit sexier and a little bit.

[Claudia]

And a little bit more mature. You know, I'm a mother now.

[Chris Appleton]

I don't know if about mature.

[Claudia]

I agree.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

I think if anything, like, a bit more youthful and sexy. And how old are you?

[Claudia]

I just feel like that's not important. I think I'm 13.

[Chris Appleton]

Thirteen. So at 13 years old, like, I think we should get a haircut that compliments that. I'm gonna start.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay. Yeah.

[Claudia]

And we're gonna talk to you. So you were telling us because we are huge color.

[Chris Appleton]

Wow. We should put cape on.

[Claudia]

Oh, a cape. Yeah, of course. Cape.

[Chris Appleton]

So you don't.

[Jackson Claude]

So professional.

[Claudia]

It's so different.

[Jackson Claude]

You might have to move your microphone clip onto your cape.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, I'm sorry, everyone.

[Jackson Claude]

It's okay.

[Claudia]

Hold on.

[Jackson Claude]

We're not cutting corners. And Claudia is very precious about her hair.

[Claudia]

Extremely precious about my hair.

[Chris Appleton]

So good as she should be. As every. As everyone is. It's like a big part of who you look. And also your hair is like a really great feature. You know what I mean?

[Claudia]

Yes. I've always really liked it. Sometime like, have hair and it's just accessory.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah. And they change it every week and.

[Claudia]

It means nothing to them.

[Jackson Claude]

My hair means it's your identity.

[Claudia]

It is my security blanket. It's my identity.

[Chris Appleton]

I can't even do this gown up. How does this thing work? Step one, how to put on a gown.

[Claudia]

I just feel like you've evolved.

[Chris Appleton]

Step two, cut the hat. Yeah. I'm so over putting gowns on.

[Claudia]

When was the last time, I guess you cut your client's hair a lot when you do celebrity glam.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

Are they. Are celebrities more like carefree about cutting their hair? Like, they're like, sure, sure.

[Jackson Claude]

Because they could always get a wig if they don't like it.

[Chris Appleton]

Just like when I cut Kim's hair off into a bob, like, she freaks. Oh, it's like a big thing. Like you're cutting away. Like, you know, like, hair can mean so much and it can have such a feeling. It can make you feel sexy. It can make you feel glamorous. Short hair feels very different.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Doesn't move the same. You don't. It changes the way you walk, the air. It changes everything. Changes the way your makeup reads. It also changes. It can make you look more sophisticated. It can make you look younger and sexier. It just depends on, I think, how you feel good, what you feel. Feel good with, and, you know, what you go to it. So, no, everyone has that feeling.

[Jackson Claude]

When do you think a person, like, is a good candidate for getting a bob or, like, a short haircut?

[Chris Appleton]

Well, there is the breakup haircut, which I talk about in the book, and it's a really kind of interesting time where people really want to change their hair and just cut everything off and do something completely different.

[Jackson Claude]

Do you think that's a good idea?

[Chris Appleton]

I think sometimes it's a scary idea, just only because, like, it's that time you want that instant change, and you just don't want to see that reflection. And a lot of the time, you don't want to see the pain that you're in. You kind of want to distract out of it. You know, I mean, like, what's. What book can I read? Who can I talk to? What podcast can I listen to to, like, get over this heartbreak?

[Jackson Claude]

Listen to the toast.

[Chris Appleton]

Listen to the toast. Exactly. But sometimes I think, you know, it's about kind of trying to escape. So I feel like breakup haircuts are always a little bit scary, but I think a bob haircut is, like, a really beautiful. I love.

[Jackson Claude]

I love a bob.

[Chris Appleton]

It's just. It's a commitment. If you're going to.

[Claudia]

I don't want a bob. Do not even think about it.

[Chris Appleton]

Do you want to see thing with your texture like you've got.

[Claudia]

It would be bad, right?

[Jackson Claude]

Not a good candidate.

[Chris Appleton]

It would.

[Claudia]

Oh, okay.

[Chris Appleton]

Good. It just wouldn't suit your hat. I mean, it would be. It would be big. You'd have to really style it.

[Claudia]

It would be big.

[Chris Appleton]

It would just, like, not work. It would just ruin your, you know, even change your texture.

[Claudia]

Oh, man. This is, like, the craziest thing I've ever done. Wait.

[Jackson Claude]

We like to do crazy stuff on the show.

[Claudia]

You really put us on to color.

[Chris Appleton]

Wow.

[Claudia]

When you came on the toast in 2019, the pop and lock shellac, we literally have it here.

[Jackson Claude]

We use it every day, and then.

[Claudia]

It'S like a gateway drug to the other products. And you were telling us before you.

[Chris Appleton]

Wait, you know what we should do so it's less boring so people can actually see it.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

I should dry your hair.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, sure, dry it after.

[Chris Appleton]

I think we should dry it now. And I'm gonna cut it dry so people can actually see it. And you can see it because also because the texture of your hair, you're not really gonna get. It's gonna kind of look boring and dull.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay. Okay.

[Chris Appleton]

So this blends into this. So let me dry it.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay.

[Chris Appleton]

Can we do it quick or do.

[Claudia]

We dry my hair and then we're gonna cut it so everyone can really see sort of the drama?

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, I like, I want people to.

[Jackson Claude]

See the transformation, the big reveal.

[Chris Appleton]

So we're not gonna cut your hair. We're gonna contour it. So now you contour your face with makeup. Right. So contour what you got. You got blush. What else have you got on there?

[Jackson Claude]

Everything.

[Chris Appleton]

But you, like, layer and shape your face. Now, we know that you can do that with makeup now, right? Make me look chiseled, contour, shape me. You can also do that with hair. So you've got your standard, like, layered haircut. But when you contour, you really like shaping the hair according to the hair texture, the hair density, and also the face shape. So it's kind of working on more of like a hair cutting technique, which is contouring. Okay. The new haircut of haircuts.

[Claudia]

I love that.

[Chris Appleton]

So we're going to contour your hair, but that's why we're going to do it dry so I can see.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay. Okay.

[Claudia]

So, guys, we'll be right back. We're going to blow dry my hair.

[Chris Appleton]

A quick commercial break and quick commercial.

[Claudia]

Break, and we'll see you in a minute.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay. We are back. Chris has blow dried Claudia's hair. It actually looks really beautiful. And it's going to be.

[Chris Appleton]

She has so much hair.

[Claudia]

Like, the fact that I did is made it dry.

[Chris Appleton]

So now we're going to start with the shape pin.

[Claudia]

And I, like, want to ask you questions, but I'm so, like, like, I.

[Jackson Claude]

You don't want to focus.

[Claudia]

This is so important to me.

[Jackson Claude]

Talking while he works.

[Claudia]

Yeah, it's true.

[Chris Appleton]

All right, let's go. You ready?

[Claudia]

Do most celebrities, like, want to chit chat or they just, like, want to sit inside?

[Chris Appleton]

There's always stuff happening. Like they're on the phone.

[Claudia]

Right.

[Chris Appleton]

You know, there's always life happening. This is the crazy as is today. So, yeah, you're in the chair today. This is it. This is happening. Doing a podcast, which is.

[Jackson Claude]

You're going to be great, Claudia. Don't look at you. Trust the process.

[Claudia]

Like, this is a Focus on Chris and his book.

[Jackson Claude]

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

[Claudia]

It really is.

[Chris Appleton]

Wait, when I came in 10 years ago, did you think I was going to have a book out?

[Claudia]

No. When you came in 10 years ago, you were still. Six years ago, you were still very much like an iconic because you've always had like probably the most A list clients. But you've really evolved into much more of like a media empire now. Like you were saying before, you were referencing color. Wow. Off camera. And you said, we are doing xyz. I did not know that you were involved. I thought you were like maybe an ambassador.

[Jackson Claude]

Brand ambassador.

[Chris Appleton]

No, I was a big part of it. Really? Yeah. I mean, like 10 years ago when I met at Gale, Colorado, just had kind of the shampoo condition. They had some products and they had the root powder which people knew of, but we just kind of connected and honestly, we've had the best relationship. It was just like, it was all a little crazy. It was, it was very personal. Was a lot of family that's involved. We're all a little off the wall with our ideas, but I think fundamentally we already cared about creating a great product for the people that, you know, needed hair care solutions. And I was saying to you during COVID it was like a really interesting time because it was a time where we thought we had it all sort of sorted. Knowing what worked.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

And the message. And then Covid happened and everything changed and we went, what happens now? But then we changed towards social media and we sort of, you know, took that on and that was such a big, you know, way of connecting to people and it grew the brand so much more.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Power of TikTok.

[Claudia]

No. By the way, I feel like, myself included, like, everyone knows about color. Wow. Because of you. And there are a couple of products that went super viral. Like you use the dream code on me, which is. I use it every day. It's like the best thing to use.

[Jackson Claude]

For you before you blow your teeth.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

The hairspray, the shampoo and conditioner.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. I mean, the Dreamcoat is. It's like that's the hero product. It takes a lot of frizz, gives it that mirror, like shine. And honestly, it's just a great product which helps a lot of people. And I think that's what it's simply about. And I think that's like, honestly, that's the reason I brought out the book. The book isn't a memoir, by the way. It's part memoir, but it's more self help. Because I think A lot of people just need even you sitting in the chair. Like, there's an uncomfortableness to change. There's an uncomfortableness to, like. I feel like she's close to panicking and she sees all the chairs on.

[Claudia]

I'm feeling very calm.

[Jackson Claude]

Like, you're in good.

[Claudia]

You're in the best. Yeah. Given what's going on right now and, like, this might be the craziest thing I've ever done. I feel extremely calm. You have a warm presence about you. You know, you're also a parent. I feel like a lot of people, every time you post your kids are shocked to find out that you have two grown, like, pretty grown kids. How old are your kids?

[Chris Appleton]

My kids are 21 and 23.

[Claudia]

And how old are you? You look like 17.

[Chris Appleton]

I'm 42.

[Claudia]

Wow. You look amazing.

[Chris Appleton]

I was 19 when I had kids. Yeah. I had a very different life before I, like, came out and. Right.

[Claudia]

And you talk about all that in the.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, I mean, I generally. Be honest with you, like, I actually had a cancer scare. I spoke about it for the first time this week because I. I just didn't really want to go out there and necessarily talk about it. But there was a very different book written where it was more surface level and maybe what people know about me. I work with celebrities. Like, when we post the best parts, parts of myself. Look, we're all guilty of being controlled with what we post. We're all scared. Scared. Like, do you have a post and think, what is this person thinking? What is that person thinking? Let's face it, they've already made their mind up and you're probably on mute.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

You know what I mean? If someone doesn't really, like, you're probably already on mute.

[Claudia]

Right, Right.

[Chris Appleton]

So I, you know, try and be more authentic with my posting and try and be more authentic. And I really want to be more authentic with my story because with this cancer scare, I actually had to go under and have an operation.

[Claudia]

Oh, wow.

[Chris Appleton]

And my daughter was with me and it was very scary because it was so esophageal cancer and my mum had that and it was very nearly the end journey for her. And obviously Kim's dad had it. He died very fast of it. And I know a lot of, like, my friends, friends that have died at like 30, 40. It's very aggressive. So when I was, like, not getting reassured by the doctor and I had to go under, I was like, is this my time?

[Jackson Claude]

Right.

[Chris Appleton]

I've had a lot of stress in my life. Like, I've Had a lot of trauma, like, and I remember thinking, have I written what I should write, like, and used my voice? Or I just done another edited version. And I know I had. I'd done an edited version because it was safer. So I decided to write this and just be more vulnerable and more real because I guess I just wanted to own my voice before, you know, possibility of not having it. So, yeah, it was hard to kind of go into my darkest kind of moments, but hopefully that'll help other people. Yeah. Because then we all have them. Right?

[Claudia]

Right.

[Chris Appleton]

We all have those, like, moments where we feel lost or unsure or question, like, is this it? Is this who I am? Is this where I'm going to be? I'll tell you something no one knows, though. A big resort of the cancer scare I found out was I went through a stage of trying MANJARO, you know, GLP1.

[Claudia]

Oh, girl, do I know Manjaro? We're best friends.

[Chris Appleton]

That's what, that's what you're doing now.

[Claudia]

I'm technically on Zepbound, but they're all the same.

[Chris Appleton]

So, I mean. So why do you tell me, I don't know your journey, What.

[Claudia]

So always struggled and then. Yeah. And like right now, I had a baby eight months ago. It was actually eight months today. And I think, yeah, happy eight month birthday. And for me, like, bouncing back is really just about, like, wanting to have more kids. And I don't want to even attempt to do it myself. I've always struggled doing it myself.

[Chris Appleton]

With weight. Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

And I love these, like, I think these medicines are magic. I'm a huge fan of them. Why did you take it?

[Chris Appleton]

I think I've always been very conscious of what I eat. I work out a lot. I work out like seven days a week, six days, I don't know, depending with work. But I like to go mentally because it makes me feel. Feel great. But I think also physically, like, I want to feel good. When you're standing in front of people, I want to feel. I don't want to be standing there feeling, like, not healthy. What kind of example am I? So I did it just because when I got to in my 40s, it was so much harder to lose, like one pound.

[Claudia]

Yeah. Right.

[Chris Appleton]

I go to the gym for an hour, I spend half an hour on the treadmill. But then with my life and schedule and stuff, and I kind of. I wanted to lose like £6 and I thought, why not? I'll just try it. I just thought. I kind of was interested to see. See what? What it was all about how it worked. And I've got a huge appetite. Like.

[Claudia]

Right.

[Chris Appleton]

I'm. I could be a really big guy if I wanted to. But, you know, I think for me, I was, like, struggling with lifestyle, work, traveling. And what I really noticed, what was amazing, is it took away, like, the noise of food.

[Claudia]

Yeah, that's the mess.

[Chris Appleton]

So I ate. Listen, I didn't. I took the lowest dose, so I still had my breakfast. I had a lunch, I had my dinner. And I was very conscious of doing protein shakes in between. I wanted to make sure my goal wasn't to be super skinny, but it was just to keep me from getting. Yeah. Eating crap all the time, getting, like, unhealthy, which has a negative effect on the gym. It was just kind of about balance. But I only tried it for a short period of time. But that actually gave me, like, the acid reflux.

[Claudia]

Oh, yeah, that's real, really bad. Like waking you up in the night.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. So these. This thing that they thought was possibly esophageal cancer was cysts. I had cysts. Now, that wasn't caused from the manjana. I think it was caused from lifestyle stress.

[Claudia]

Right.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

I also was taking a medication called doxycycline for my skin. I get folliculitis from the hair on my face. And I didn't realize. I used to take it at bed at night, and I'd go sleep. And apparently it's the worst medication you can take because you lay there and it sits and it can eat away and it causes this acid. So effectively, like, that combined, that's one of the reasons I got cysts. So I stopped doing it. I only did it for maybe a month, but I see the benefit. Yeah, of course I see the benefit. For some, I've been. I mean, Kate, the mother of my kids. Kids, we're still best friends now. She struggled with her weight her whole life. She has done every diet from eating soups for six months. Like, she lost the weight. She looked great, always put it back on, because when life got involved, she couldn't maintain, like, the amount of commitment she had to give to losing weight. And so when she tried it, like, the difference and how it changed her life I think was amazing. And I see the kind of how it seemed to lift her whole aura, like. Of, like, this pressure she always felt. And I write about. Your roots don't define you. Well, a lot of time it does. And, like, these. These sort of lies we feel trapped in. And I think he gave people, like, a free it gives people a freedom to be able to, you know, see.

[Claudia]

A new version and focus on other things.

[Chris Appleton]

But it's not as. I mean, I am a firm believer if you're gonna do it, like, you still need to eat healthy. It's not about. Some people just do it and they.

[Claudia]

Don'T eat, and they don't change anything.

[Chris Appleton]

And I'm like, guys, you got to eat protein. Protein. You've got to make sure you're taking your vitamins. Like, hair loss is a big thing. I will say with GLP1. I mean, obviously not on you, babe.

[Jackson Claude]

No.

[Claudia]

But with weight loss in general, like, it's such a.

[Chris Appleton]

People always lose hair. Yeah. When they lose weight, the hair. I think it's just, like, lack of nutrients, shock to the body. Those things always changes. So I'm always saying, like, make sure you take your hair supplements. You've got to be really kind of, I think, aware of what you're doing. And I still think it's good to go to the gym and use it as motivation to, like.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

A lot of people when they're overweight. Yeah. Like, their knee hurts or because they're overweight. Whereas in actual fact, it helps them get to a better place so they can make someone right. I'm a big fan. I see Oprah going around right now, and she struggled with her weight her whole life. I think it's so brave to go out because there's so much negativity on it, and people are terrified to say. And so many people are on it, but people are. It's so funny. You say, oh, my God, you look amazing. And let's face it, you know, when someone's on it, because it's completely different. You know what they say.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. I said, what are you doing? And they're, like, intermittent past him. Okay. Right. That's how you got it all together last minute. But, you know, look, each to their own. I just think there should be more honest conversations about it. I tried it. It didn't work for me. And possibly my area of life and health reasons, and let's be honest, I don't really need it. I just wanted to get to a place that I'd always wanted to get to physique. And, you know, I realized it was just a bit too much on my body.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Right. What do you think to it?

[Claudia]

I mean, I'm obsessed with it. I have had the most positive experience, I think, like, for women who.

[Chris Appleton]

How much weight have you lost?

[Claudia]

Well, right now, I've had two, like, stints on it right now. I just started a month ago. I'm down around 11 pounds.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay.

[Claudia]

And then before I got pregnant, I had lost like 70 pounds on it. So really, like a what? Like a huge success story from it?

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay.

[Claudia]

And I'm a. I'm just a really big fan. I think that, like, so much of, like, such, so much of the struggle around, like, being a mom is so weight related. Right. Like, so all the different issues of, like, wanting to lose weight before you get pregnant again, a lot of people being hesitant to get pregnant because. Or like when I was overweight, I did not want to get pregnant at that weight. So. So I think, like, so many of the stages of womanhood, like, we can't not talk about them without talking about weight. And I think this just really.

[Chris Appleton]

Did you. Did you get flak for it? Were people.

[Claudia]

Well, so I did it for many months before I shared.

[Chris Appleton]

Were you nervous? To be honest about it?

[Claudia]

Of course. But also, like, I was nervous to be on a drug. Like, I don't take drugs. Like, I'm injecting myself. I didn't want to share it until I knew that, like, I was going to, like, love it and have a good experience. And also it was just so personal. Weight is so personal for her. Like, so I just didn't want to share. And now in hindsight, like, I do wish I shared a little bit earlier, like, I shared more towards the end of my journey, but it was, it was a beautiful journey. It was what?

[Jackson Claude]

It was time doing it too.

[Claudia]

Exactly.

[Jackson Claude]

And it was before. Now it's ubiquitous. Everyone talks about it, everyone says that. They're like, you know, shares that they're on it and it's not a big deal. In fact, people are like, stop talking about it.

[Claudia]

Right.

[Chris Appleton]

Would you try it? Would you do it?

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, yes. It's my dream.

[Chris Appleton]

What do you mean? It's a dream.

[Jackson Claude]

But so I've had. I have three kids. I just had a baby two months ago. So I do look forward to being one day, but I'm breastfeeding, so no can do right now. And before it came out, right when I started having kids, so it was like, not my time, but I do feel like my time is coming soon and I'm really excited. It just, I just want to say.

[Claudia]

Like, getting close to the front of my hair, like, I just think I can't and I can't wait. But we just need to acknowledge I just worked my way through, but I'm being so brave. I'm being so brave.

[Chris Appleton]

You're doing great, man.

[Claudia]

Thank you.

[Chris Appleton]

But I promise I'm not going to know you. Have you still got. No.

[Jackson Claude]

I know.

[Chris Appleton]

I know now, but I'm shaping. Shape away, Shape away, bringing sexy.

[Jackson Claude]

I already see the contour Cl. It looks so.

[Chris Appleton]

You're contouring the body. I'm contouring.

[Claudia]

It's so true. Don't. These aren't ready.

[Chris Appleton]

It's a contour summer.

[Jackson Claude]

You gotta let Picasso do his work.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

That's a nice way of putting that.

[Claudia]

Okay, so of all your, like, famous looks throughout history.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

Which do you think is the most impactful, like, on the beauty community? For me, JLo Super bowl is up there, like, for sure.

[Chris Appleton]

You know, that was, like, the worst moment of my career.

[Claudia]

Why?

[Chris Appleton]

Because everyone. It was the biggest moment, and I really didn't realize it was going to be that big. So I saw JLo's performance, and I was like, wow, she's. She's mega. Like, if anyone ever seen JLO perform, she's great. And I was like, how do I give her hair worthy of this performance? And I also know so many people watch these things for the glam.

[Claudia]

How do they look?

[Chris Appleton]

What do they look like? So I decided to do. Oh, God. I tell you something. I did a hairstyle on her for. It was like a rehearsal, but it was filmed. So we did this rehearsal, but it was filmed because they were worried it was going to rain on the day in Miami, and if it was going to rain, they were going to use this recording. So I don't know why, but I sort of did this thing that sometimes we do where we overthink things. You know, brides, they always wear their hair down their whole lives. No makeup. They get married, they have blue eyeshadow and put their hair on.

[Claudia]

Right, right, right.

[Chris Appleton]

Extra. You know, they're like, why did I do that? Sometimes we just go too far.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

So I decided to, like, curl her hair. But normally I'll curl her hair, let it drop, right it out. I decided to curl it on, like, a really tight curling iron so that.

[Jackson Claude]

When it felt like it would fall.

[Chris Appleton]

I was like, oh, I really want it to hold. I don't want it to drop. And then I. I pinned it with pins, curls, which is, like, normally do. Well, you'd think, right? You'd think I'd know by now. So they're like, hey, JLo, we're ready for you. Ready on stage. And she's like, okay, baby. So I take the pins out, and I just brush her hair out, and it's going to be like gorgeous, right? Nice bouncy. So I take the curls out and they're like coils, right? And I went to brush it out. I don't know what I did that day, but they just stay. It kept going back into a of weeks couple coil. I started brushing her hair aggressively as I got out to the field. Like, I'm really going for it. And she's like, what's going on, baby? And she's like, let me see the mirror. There's like these coils, these curls. And she's like, it's a curly. And I'm like, yeah, it's going to drop. I did that thing.

[Jackson Claude]

You're like, turn the lights off.

[Chris Appleton]

It's the. The, you know, the. It's going to drop. So she's like, okay. So she does this performance anyway. I just see her spinning her head around on the big stage and it's just like annoying. Like, these curls. I'm like, what the hell happened? So anyway, she came off and she's like, how was it? And I was like, oh, my God, it was amazing. Blah, blah, blah. And in my head, I'm like, her was too curly. So I was like, I thought, I'm just gonna. I'm very honest. I was just like, I think your hair was a bit too curly. She's like, it kind of felt curly. So then her manager came in and he was like, oh, my God, your hair on that last take was phenomenal. I love the bounciness of it. So I actually developed this new technique where I did this double curl. I decided to curl the hair on the smallest curl curling iron. And then I went over it with the biggest one that I normally do. Because you get a real tight curl when you cut it on a small curling iron. But the big curls always drop out. But when you have the base of the smaller curl, the big curl really holds. So that was actually how it stayed because I did her hair.

[Claudia]

It's like Thomas Edison in the light bulb, right? Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

It was called the double curl technique. I love that. So basically she went out there, did a performance, but I went home that night and cried. Still.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

And thank God it didn't rain.

[Chris Appleton]

No. I went home and I shared one piece of hair. One. When she's like, this one piece of hair went in between her eyelash like that and it got stuck. And I thought, oh, my God, I've ruined her performance. I've literally.

[Jackson Claude]

No, I think that's the eyelash person's Fault.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Everyone went out, had a great night, and I was, like, just torturing myself. But I realize now, and that's what I write about a lot in the book, these experiences where, like, now I can be, like, way more realistic myself. I can turn that. The hater down that we all have down to a 2, and I can come back to myself. And I can actually say to myself, well, actually, the hat. That hair moves. The fact that her hair moves so well added to the performance. If it was really sprayed and stiff, it wouldn't have been as good. But some of the biggest moments in my career, I feel like I failed and let myself down rather than, like, celebrating it.

[Jackson Claude]

I pulled myself apart just watching Kardashians. And you and Kim were joking about the Marilyn hair at the Met.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, do not. Why? Why'd you bring that up?

[Jackson Claude]

It's what you're talking about, but it's.

[Chris Appleton]

We don't talk about it.

[Claudia]

Well, can we.

[Chris Appleton]

Anytime Kim brings that. Anytime Kim brings that up. What's the reason Chloe also want to be, like, not the Marilyn?

[Jackson Claude]

No le.

[Claudia]

That's so funny, because, like, as cultural commentators, we were gooped and gagged when we saw her.

[Chris Appleton]

She will still send me edited versions of, like, wait, what about this, Jackie? Oh, we should have done the big, like, little AI version.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, my God, that's so funny. Chatgpt.

[Chris Appleton]

I stand by Bun, because the idea was, like, she didn't want to do, like, a Marilyn copy, and we were so worried about a, like, a modern.

[Jackson Claude]

Take on Marilyn, not like, you know.

[Chris Appleton]

There'S people at Hollywood studios where they have the Marilyn. So we were like, do the wig. But I think when you've just bleached your hair and you've got no roux, it's kind of very. I don't know. I still stand by. I thought it was cool, but I.

[Jackson Claude]

Think you guys are so.

[Chris Appleton]

Still debating it.

[Claudia]

That's so funny.

[Chris Appleton]

Wait, what were you gonna say anyway?

[Jackson Claude]

No, I was gonna say, what would you have done differently? Like, if you did that hair, that outfit again, what would you have done? What do you think is the right thing?

[Chris Appleton]

Just leave it in the moment.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

It was amazing.

[Chris Appleton]

Loved it. I mean, look, we're going.

[Claudia]

We're going.

[Chris Appleton]

Everyone's gonna have an opinion on it. I think I stand by it, but, you know, I think it could have been fun.

[Claudia]

I'm not gonna show everyone my hair.

[Chris Appleton]

A baby.

[Jackson Claude]

That's, like, one little bit gaines, by the way. Like.

[Claudia]

Yeah. No, and the thing is, I'm feeling so good about this. Like, yeah, it's. It's good. It's sketchy.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Claudia]

I have Chris Appleton doing my hair. Like, how many people can say that?

[Chris Appleton]

Exactly, exactly. I'm just going with what you're saying.

[Claudia]

You just don't give me, like, fringe bags.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay.

[Jackson Claude]

No, it looks so. Oh, I love that piece.

[Chris Appleton]

Opening up your face.

[Jackson Claude]

I love that.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, look at that where you open.

[Jackson Claude]

Wow. We're watching Transform.

[Claudia]

Oh, I'm confused, because the monitor's the other side. This.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay, yeah, no, we can see the transformation.

[Claudia]

Is there a celebrity whose hair you've done who was so unpleasant to work with that you never wanted to work with them again?

[Chris Appleton]

I see that all the they people keep going on about. Like, why do people love to, like, gossip like that? He. No, they always looking for the bad.

[Claudia]

Oh, when you say people, you're talking about me. Okay.

[Jackson Claude]

No, I think he's talking about the hairstylist.

[Chris Appleton]

You say that people like talking about the Glamboard.

[Claudia]

Oh, yes.

[Chris Appleton]

I'm like, I know. It's just like, JLo, she's working. Like, she left so much earlier. I think there was so much traffic to get there, and we were like, why is she not on the copy? Why she's not on the copy? So you get there. It's so chaotic in these situations, and you're moving on, and your PR person is just passing you from place to place, and you go and you say, you know, saying high. But, like, you got to hear everything they're saying. Like, I just don't think it's.

[Claudia]

Like, we talked about it.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, yeah. And, like, expose people.

[Claudia]

We talked about that the other day because I thought that that video, like, went so viral for no reason.

[Chris Appleton]

Like, people just love to get out. And I have to say, like, I worked with for a long time, and I think she's an amazing person. She's always been incredibly generous and kind, and I think anything can be taken out of context. And I think people sometimes look in, and I think now they've started on the Glamboard guy, because that's someone posted in their emails.

[Claudia]

I'm like, yeah, the Glambox guy is getting canceled.

[Chris Appleton]

I know. Poor guy.

[Jackson Claude]

I mean, I wonder who would do that.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, was it.

[Claudia]

No, no, no. We just reported on it. And I thought, like, maybe his time was coming, because I feel like sometimes he sets up celebrities. Do you feel that? Like. Like, even the JLO video, don't you feel like he knew what he was doing when he posted that?

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, he posted it. Yeah.

[Claudia]

It felt nefarious. To me like. And I think a lot of times he filmed celebrities without their consent and not all the time is this celebrity and be like, hi, oh my God. How are you? Sometimes you're at a work thing and you're just quiet.

[Chris Appleton]

I mean now for anyone that's watching and anyone that wanted to drag JLO during that moment. Red carpets are insane. It's them. It's not a natural thing to have so many people screaming your name is so as so many different people you're saying hello to. It's really overwhelming. So I'd like to see any.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

You know, like hugging everyone. You're also kind of like it is a bit of a pantomime about you there to take your picture. You've spent hours getting ready.

[Claudia]

Right.

[Chris Appleton]

You're looking your best picture picture. You move on. Quite nerve wracking as well. No. No matter how long you've done it.

[Claudia]

Yeah. It's an art form.

[Chris Appleton]

So I actually I'm fully defensive of Jello and I think she, there's, you know, a great. I think she's a very kind person and I think everything can be perceived in different ways. Especially on a 10 second.

[Jackson Claude]

Right.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Video.

[Claudia]

Right, Right.

[Chris Appleton]

But that's the world we live and you've got to be able to, you know, I guess take it. Give and take.

[Claudia]

And what stage of the haircut do you think you're in right now?

[Chris Appleton]

Like I'm just going to go for a refine in it.

[Claudia]

Okay.

[Chris Appleton]

Like you have like a lot of weight in one area. Area of your ass.

[Claudia]

I also have a cowlick. What do you like, what does. How do you get rid of a cowlick? Like you can't cut it off.

[Jackson Claude]

Wait, how? It's like, it's almost like you just.

[Claudia]

Oh, you just work with it.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay. Work around it. That's what I mean about contour is like I'm like actually looking at your hair.

[Claudia]

Do you see the cowlick?

[Chris Appleton]

I'm actually going to start to create like some shorter pieces within chunk out the back. You've got like a big chunk of wedge on the back.

[Claudia]

Oh, okay.

[Jackson Claude]

Big, not big like that chunk.

[Chris Appleton]

It's like a lot of you sometimes obviously hair is not spread so much thinner hair and you have a big.

[Claudia]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Chris Appleton]

So it's kind of like balancing proportion. It's not like, you know, business in the front and a party in the back. The whole thing like starts to have one blow but we can start to.

[Claudia]

It already feels lighter.

[Chris Appleton]

But you still have hair.

[Claudia]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jackson Claude]

So Long.

[Chris Appleton]

There's loads of hair on the floor.

[Jackson Claude]

Oh, my God.

[Claudia]

Oh, is there?

[Jackson Claude]

I flip when you see how much hair on the floor. But your hair is still long.

[Claudia]

Oh, my God, guys, my hair. I'm fucking dying. And we're doing more. Okay, we have to collect it all and then, like, make a. Like a merkin or something and put.

[Jackson Claude]

It on the shelf.

[Claudia]

Yes, of course. Here lies Turdi's mop. Let's get like, an acrylic box.

[Jackson Claude]

Make a merkin.

[Chris Appleton]

Wait.

[Claudia]

Yeah, that's what I said.

[Chris Appleton]

You've never had a crazy haircut where you hate it?

[Claudia]

No, I always do the same. Every time I go get my haircut, I do, like, a little trim. We cut off the dead, and then lots of layers, lots of movement, face framing.

[Chris Appleton]

Can I assume you the. Can. Can you be honest with me? I want you to do the same. I write a chapter in my book about the hater inside your head.

[Claudia]

Yeah, Nobody hates me more than me, so.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay, well, this is precisely my point. So there's a part where I talk about people looking in the mirror. And it's like, when you look in the mirror, are you truly aligned with, like, what you see in your outside image, with how you truly feel on the inside, the way you want to get in your life? Because a lot of people say, I don't care about the wear look. I don't care about my hair. But you're also saying something, so. So when someone sits in the stylist chair, it's a real moment of vulnerability because you look in the mirror and you can't look. You know, you look, and we just stare at the mirror.

[Claudia]

It's so true. I cannot stop staring at myself.

[Chris Appleton]

Okay, so most people have this hatred inside their head where they, like, start tearing themselves apart. You know the amount of women that do this?

[Claudia]

Yeah, I'm always like this.

[Chris Appleton]

And they're like, do you think it's. You know, there's a lighting bad in here? Because I've got this big dot, like, right. My boot. One boob bigger than me. And they're like, is this arm swept sheet? If you just start carrying something apart, the voice inside your head is like, yes. And we talk about that in the book and how basically it's from your past and something someone probably once said to you. Someone probably once said that, you know, you're the shy one, your sister's a confident one, or you need bangs because you have a big forehead. So when I would talk to people, I talk about, like, well, I know I can't do that.

[Claudia]

Yeah, right.

[Chris Appleton]

I'd be like, why is that? And they're like, well big because I just, I can't, I don't know. And they carry these like preconceived ideas of who they are from something someone once said, you know, in the carry of the whole life. So when you look in the mirror, like, what do you see? Like, what does the hater say?

[Claudia]

Oh, what does the hater say? Well, the thing is, I feel like I am like my biggest hater. But I'm also like, no one's more delusional about how amazing, gorgeous, perfect I am. Like, I really teeter between. I teeter between being like delusionally self confident while also being so hard on myself. I feel like it really just depends on the day.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay, and this.

[Chris Appleton]

On a bad day. What is it?

[Claudia]

On a bad day, it's like, like the worst things I think about myself visually or like internally usually. Oh, always. Wait, actually that's it. Like I kind of have amazing skin and amazing hair. It's weight for me.

[Jackson Claude]

Always face and features.

[Claudia]

Yeah. And like so smart and amazing and like intelligent and it's always the weight.

[Chris Appleton]

You probably carried that with you your whole life.

[Claudia]

My whole life?

[Jackson Claude]

Yes.

[Chris Appleton]

You know, know. But you can start to like change that voice inside your head.

[Claudia]

Yes. It was a resolution of mine like many years ago to stop the negative self talk. I didn't.

[Chris Appleton]

One can speak worse to yourself than yourself.

[Claudia]

It's so true.

[Chris Appleton]

You know what I mean? Like that's. I realized that like, especially when I kind of came out, I realized I'd made a career out of making people look in the mirror and see themselves and like really kind of like be the best versions of themselves. But like I never actually looked at myself because it's really scary to do. It's like the hardest work you can do is to stop and take the. Going hard.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Wait, what's yours?

[Jackson Claude]

Wait, you know, these days there's not much to do about it.

[Claudia]

Right. That's the other part.

[Jackson Claude]

Like being breastfeeding.

[Claudia]

Breastfeeding and getting pregnant.

[Jackson Claude]

You're so hungry you can't diet, can't take drugs.

[Claudia]

Did. Okay, so when you had your kids, you were living where.

[Chris Appleton]

This is looking nice. Where was I? Oh, in Leicester. In an. In. In a small town called Leicester. Middle Indian. Lester.

[Claudia]

Lester.

[Jackson Claude]

It spelled like Leicester, right?

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. L, E, I, C, E, S, T, R. Oh, hi.

[Claudia]

Yeah, no, I'm completely fine. You don't have to worry about me.

[Chris Appleton]

I sit the back for too long. You're like, is it there?

[Claudia]

Yeah. You said you have a very good relationship with your ex. Wife. Mother. Yeah. So did you come out after you were divorced or that was the reason you got divorced?

[Chris Appleton]

Our relationship kind of broke down. We've been together for. Since I was 19, I was like 27. And our relationship kind of broke down. I think we were still really close, but I don't know, sometimes things just for whatever reason, but we still had this, like, friendship. And I will say during my, like, darkest time, she was the one that really reminded me who I was. And I would say, like, it's definitely an unconditional type of love we have because even to this day, like, we still talk all the time. We spent New Year's Eve and Christmas together with a kid.

[Claudia]

That's so nice.

[Chris Appleton]

Was rare. But I also believe that's, like, real love. Because even in my darkest moments then I tried to end my life was a night I tried to. I had to tell my kids. Couldn't bear telling them or causing them pain or grief.

[Claudia]

And she was telling them about the divorce or coming out. Got it.

[Chris Appleton]

And she was the one that really helped me see myself before I could see myself.

[Claudia]

Oh, wow. She sounds amazing. And what does she make of you now, like, in your success?

[Chris Appleton]

And I guess it was really interesting because we. We were. We spent Christmas together and, like, the fireworks were going off for New Year's Eve, and I. There's a video where I put my arm around her and I just. I don't know, I was just sort of taking it in, and she's like, wow, you. You actually really did it, Chris. She's like, I. I knew you always would. Like, I believed in you when you didn't believe in yourself. But she's like, you actually. You did it. Like, I set off to America with a dream, and I guess so.

[Claudia]

That's really sweet.

[Chris Appleton]

But it would have been very different if they didn't have the people around me, like, right. There was one moment in my career where it probably would have been a very different story. Story. I was doing Christina Blair on the Voice, and basically, like, we had three hours for glam. I ended up having 20 minutes. I walked in. I'd never worked with us before. I was terrified. And I said to her, like, you know, what do you want to do? And she was like, I don't know. What do you want to do? And I said, I thought, I'll put a wig on. It'll be quick. It's only 20 minutes. So I had these hair pieces, and she was like, I don't like wigs. So I was like, oh, cool. Why would you like anything I've got to do? Right? And I'm like, why would you. Me. When I was like, she's. I had that complete impostor syndrome. I was like, yeah. And then I literally felt like I was paralyzed. I started to do this thing that hairdressers do. This is a maybe true again to some people.

[Claudia]

Are you going to keep touching. Oh, why do hairstylists do that? It's triggering.

[Jackson Claude]

They finish your hair. They just.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, basically, you don't know what you're doing in my. That's great for me. But when I'm doing this, I'm like, please, some. Something happened. Someone say something. Something fall from something. I've got a. I've got a.

[Claudia]

There's a. Oh, my God.

[Chris Appleton]

Let's avoid what's happening.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

So basically, I had that. And then I remember Kate's voice. She said to me on the way in the car, she was like, if you don't make this work, Chris, you're gonna have to come home. Because I had two kids to provide for. I didn't have the luxury. We were poor as well. Like, I didn't have the luxury of.

[Claudia]

Like, just being single. Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. Living my gay life. You know, I had to provide for the kids. Kids. It was. We always had that commitment. And I remember her voice. And I kind of came back to myself, and I was like, you know, I didn't come this far. From this far. I know what I'm doing. And I had these wigs. I said, let's just try this. Happy? So I got out the bag and I put it on her head, and she was like, oh, so. Oh, cool. And she was like, oh, I like it. And it was like 10 minutes. So I put it on her head. She ran off and went on the Voice. And I remember she came off and she was, like, talking to the contestants. And she looked over at me and she's like, everyone likes your wig. And then Cardinal talking. And in that moment, like, I knew. But I tell you now, I swear to you, if I had, I hadn't. I've took that leap of faith, come back to myself and maybe Kate believing in me even when I didn't. I wouldn't be here now. I wouldn't have written the book for sure. I wouldn't have done any of the celebrities. I would still be. Unless to probably believe in a version of myself. I was told as a kid. And I think a lot of people have that a lot of people, like, believe the things they've always just been told because it's scary to do anything else. Fortunately, I had someone that saw me when I didn't.

[Claudia]

Right.

[Chris Appleton]

But now I've learned to do that to myself because then you get into, like, bad relationships, you get into bad friendships, you make bad financial decisions. Every thing in your life.

[Jackson Claude]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

Can we talk about the Kardashians? You're like, go to. For all the girls.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, go to it.

[Claudia]

You have to go. Oh, we're out of time time. Yeah. Because we're running late.

[Chris Appleton]

We'll have to do your hair. Okay, well, stand up.

[Jackson Claude]

Okay. We're finishing up Claudia's hair. We will post the final photos. I'm so excited to see on Instagram. Chris Appleton. Thank you so much for coming to the toast. Our redemption episode live haircut never been done before. Nobody could do it like the toast.

[Claudia]

No, that's not true. I'll tell you.

[Jackson Claude]

Probably so fabulous. I can't. With us, guys. Are you excited to see this copy of your roots don't define you for some more Chris in your life and some more positive self talk. We appreciate your time and we will see you tomorrow. Love you with new hair. Love you.

[Chris Appleton]

Bye.