Podcast
The Trauma-Informed Lawyer
Hosted by Myrna McCallum · EN
This podcast was created for lawyers however anyone who works with people will benefit from this content. Through inspiring interviews, courageous conversations and thoughtful commentary, Myrna and her guests shine a light on a critical ethical competency lawyers missed in law school: trauma-informed lawyering. This is a do-no-further-harm, relational approach to the practice of law which benefits you, your clients, your colleagues and the legal profession generally. For lawyers and non-lawyers alike, this is your education in trauma, resilience, compassion, empathy, humility, boundaries, vicarious trauma and good professional relationship strategies you didn't know you needed.
Artwork titled, "Myrna at Moonrise" by Métis artist Leah Marie Dorion.
14episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Emotional Justice, Racial Healing and the Work We Must Do with Esther A. Armah
1w ago01:05:28Tap to summarize"You cannot PhD your way out of untreated trauma." That is the foundation of Esther Armah's Emotional Justice framework — and in this conversation, she and Myrna McCallum go deep into what racial healing actually requires, and who it asks the most of. Esther is a journalist, playwright, and global emotional justice advocate joining us from Accra, Ghana. Drawing on her encounters with Winnie Mandela, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and Nchiki Biko — the widow of Steve Biko who famously refused to forgive the officers who murdered her husband at the TRC — Esther unpacks why reconciliation is not liberation language, why Nelson Mandela's message of forgiveness placed an impossible emotional burden on Black people, and what the emotional work of white people actually looks like. Myrna brings her own reckoning: years of fawning for white audiences, softening the language of colonial trauma, and what it finally cost her to name it. This is Part 1. Esther will be back. Esther Armah is a Ghanaian-British journalist, playwright, radio host, and creator of the Emotional Justice framework. She is the author of Emotional Justice: A Roadmap for Racial Healing. She joins this episode from Accra, Ghana. IN THIS EPISODE — How Esther's mother's broken silence about the 1966 Ghana coup gave birth to Emotional Justice — and the insight that "you cannot PhD your way out of untreated trauma" — What Winnie Mandela told Esther before she interviewed Desmond Tutu: listen to the women first — Nchiki Biko's refusal to forgive at the TRC, the murder of Steve Biko, and why her "no" cracked open a new understanding of racialized forgiveness — Why reconciliation bypasses justice and repair — and how Canada's TRC has replicated the same harm as South Africa's — Nelson Mandela's forgiveness narrative: a political act of its time, and why it seeded a dangerous legacy — The emotional work that belongs to white people — Intimate Reckoning, Emotional Patriarchy, and the difference between proximity to power and actual allyship — The language of whiteness: how all of us are taught to center whiteness, and the emotional work of letting it go — Myrna's own reckoning: years of fawning for white audiences and what it took to name it — The three Cs — Courage, Comfort, and Convenience — and how we each choose to contribute to or resist systems of harm — Why you cannot self-care your way towards liberation, and what communal care actually requires — Isolation vs. solitude — why hiding can be part of healing, and why isolation is the death of liberation — Wellness in the Face of Warfare: what it means to choose wellness when your health is considered a threat to whiteness QUOTES "You cannot PhD your way out of untreated trauma. There is no amount of education that will replace the emotional work we all have to do." — Esther Armah "Reconciliation is not liberation language. It is conciliatory language designed to sustain how whiteness comforts and soothes itself." — Esther Armah "In Canada, your superpower is to mask your violence in polite neutrality and somehow describe it as no longer violence. We see that — because that's part of British whiteness." — Esther Armah PEOPLE MENTIONED — Winnie Mandela — South African anti-apartheid activist — Archbishop Desmond Tutu — South African human rights leader — Nchiki Biko — widow of Steve Biko; her refusal to forgive at the TRC was pivotal to Esther's framework — Nelson Mandela — discussed in relation to racialized forgiveness — Resmaa Menakem — referenced by Myrna on having skin in the game — Kwame Nkrumah — first independent president of Ghana; quoted on political and economic liberation RESOURCES Emotional Justice: A Roadmap for Racial Healing by Esther Armah - You can buy it here: https://www.amazon.ca/Emotional-Justice-Roadmap-Racial-Healing/dp/1523003367 estherarmah.com https://www.theaiej.com/ myrnamccallum.co
Transcribe →Revolutionary Love: My Conversation with Dr. Samah Jabr
Apr 2901:06:14Tap to summarizeIn this powerful and unflinching conversation, Dr. Samah Jabr explains the psychological realities of Palestinian life under occupation in Gaza. We move beyond headlines to examine the lived experience of genocide, collective trauma, and the systematic use of brutality, torture, and humiliation as tools of control. Dr. Jabr offers a deeply grounded analysis of colonial trauma—how it embeds itself not only in individuals, but in families, communities, and generations. Together, we unpack the psychological impact of ongoing violence, the erosion of dignity, and the ways in which survival itself becomes an act of resistance. Yet this conversation is not only about harm—it is also about healing. We explore community as medicine, the role of collective care, and the power of solidarity across movements. Drawing on liberation psychology, Dr. Jabr reframes mental health beyond individual pathology, calling us toward a more political, relational, and justice-oriented understanding of healing. At its core, this episode is an invitation to witness, to feel, and to consider what revolutionary love looks like in the face of trauma. Resources & Further Reading: You can learn more about Dr. Jabr here: https://drsamahjabr.com/ Behind the Frontlines: Tales of Resistance and Resilience in Palestine by Dr. Samah Jabr Content Note: This episode includes discussion of genocide, war, torture, and systemic violence. Please listen with care.
Transcribe →Debriefing Justice as Trauma with Ally & Mariana
Apr 2301:15:55Tap to summarizeIn this episode, I’m joined by my team—Ally and Mariana—for a candid debrief after our recent conference. We take you behind the scenes of what it really took to bring this gathering to life. We share: The moments that stood out most—the powerful, the unexpected, and the deeply moving Some of the challenges and pressure points we navigated along the way The wins we’re celebrating (both visible and behind the scenes) Reflections on the speakers, their messages, and the impact they left on us The people and moments that shifted us in ways we’re still processing This conversation is honest, reflective, and rooted in what it means to do this kind of work in real time—not just when things go right, but when they’re complex, emotional, and evolving. If you’ve ever wondered what happens after the event ends, this is that conversation. The closing Maori prayer of protection was given by Tere Davis who is the Chairperson of Hei Tatau Pounamu, a tikanga‑based restorative justice trust in Auckland.
Transcribe →There Is No Healing or Justice Without the Liberation of Children
Mar 1901:59:25Tap to summarizeIn this deeply honest, vulnerable, courageous and inter-generational conversation, I am joined by Leslie Priscilla of Latinx Parenting, my daughter Ally Hrbacek, Mariana Trujillo-Lezama, and her mother Claudia Lezama. Together, we explore a powerful and necessary truth: there is no healing or justice without the liberation of children. We name something many struggle to say out loud—children are often mistreated in ways that have been normalized. Through control, punishment, dismissal, and the assumption of adult authority, harm is perpetuated in everyday parenting practices. Leslie calls this what it is: adult supremacy, and challenges us to radically rethink how we relate to children. This conversation moves beyond blame and into awareness. Across generations, we reflect on the parenting we received, the patterns we’ve inherited, and the courage it takes to interrupt cycles of harm. We speak to the tension of loving our children deeply while also confronting the ways we may unknowingly replicate what hurt us. We also hold a profound truth: children are not just beings we raise—they are teachers, mirrors, and healers. They reveal where we are still wounded. They invite us to reconnect with our own inner children. And they call us into the work of healing—not just individually, but across generations. In this episode, we explore: the normalization of harm in parenting; power, control, and adult supremacy; what it means to truly love and respect children; children as teachers and guides in our healing; the necessity of re-parenting ourselves; and why the liberation of children is essential to any vision of justice or healing. This is not a conversation about perfect parenting. It is a conversation about truth, accountability, and transformation. Because how we treat children shapes not only families— but the world we are creating. --- Leslie Priscilla is a parent coach, educator, and the founder of Latinx Parenting, a bilingual movement rooted in children’s rights, social and racial justice, nonviolence, and intergenerational healing. Her work focuses on: liberating children from harmful and oppressive parenting practices supporting parents in reparenting themselves healing intergenerational and ancestral trauma and decolonizing family systems She has worked with thousands of parents, educators, and professionals through workshops, trainings, and community-based programming. Leslie’s highly anticipated book, Chancla: Healing Our Families, Ourselves, and Our Culture through Nonviolent Parenting, is available for pre-order and will be released on August 18, 2026. In Chancla, Leslie: examines “la chancla” as both a cultural symbol and a legacy of normalized violence invites readers to move away from fear, shame, and corporal punishment offers a path rooted in connection, reflection, and ancestral healing and supports readers in healing both their parenting practices and their inner child Blending storytelling, history, and practical tools, this book is a guide for anyone seeking to break cycles and create homes grounded in love, safety, and respect. Connect with Leslie Website: Latinx Parenting Instagram: @LatinxParenting Instagram (Leslie): @comadre.wellness Leslie will also be presenting at the Justice as Trauma Summit in Vancouver from April 7-9. Learn more here: www.myrnamccallum.co/jat2026
Transcribe →Love and Healing Through Art and Storytelling with Shain Jackson
Jan 1901:13:10Tap to summarizeIn this intimate and wide-ranging conversation, Myrna sits down with her best friend Shain Jackson for a soulful exploration of love, art, healing, spirituality, and relationship—with all the honesty, laughter, and tenderness that only a lifelong friendship allows.Together, they reflect on how love shapes who we become, how trauma informs our relationships, and how learning to listen—to ourselves, to spirit, and to one another—is an ongoing practice. This episode weaves personal stories with deeper teachings about healing, creativity, and the role of art as a living, breathing expression of spiritual connection.Shain shares the vision behind his Story Booth Project, an initiative dedicated to creating physical recording spaces where Indigenous people can safely share and preserve their stories, teachings, and lived experiences for future generations. Rooted in respect, sovereignty, and cultural continuity, the project is both an act of preservation and a form of resistance.The conversation also touches on Shain’s entrepreneurial and community-building work through Spirit Works, as well as his nonprofit Golden Eagle Rising, which centers Indigenous resurgence, creativity, and community care.At its heart, this episode is about love as a teacher—love in friendship, love in art, love in healing, and love as a spiritual force that guides us home to ourselves.This is a conversation for anyone navigating growth, grief, creativity, relationships, and the sacred work of becoming.To see Shain's work: www.spiritworks.ca and www.goldeneaglerising.org
Transcribe →Rest, Repair & Nervous System Regulation with James of Soma Body Health Toronto
Nov 2600:47:20Tap to summarizeIn this powerful episode of The Trauma-Informed Lawyer Podcast, Myrna welcomes James, the somatic practitioner behind Soma Reset Toronto and the viral TikTok account Nervous System Care Toronto, where he has become a trusted voice on trauma, embodiment, and nervous system regulation.James has a unique ability to translate complex somatic principles into simple, humane, tangible practices. His work resonates because it is grounded in the body, not theory — and because he speaks from a place of humility, lived experience, and deep compassion for the human condition.Together, Myrna and James explore what it means to reconnect with the body after trauma and stress, why healing requires slowness, and how nervous system care is actually a path toward personal liberation.In This Episode, We Explore:✨ What a dysregulated nervous system looks and feels likeJames breaks down the signs we often overlook — the ways our bodies communicate distress long before our minds catch up.✨ Why regulation is relationalWe heal through connection, attunement, and being witnessed. James explains how co-regulation shapes safety and eventually leads to self-regulation.✨ Trauma as a bodily imprint, not a storyThey discuss why insight alone doesn’t shift survival responses, and how somatic practices create change that talking cannot reach.✨ The importance of slowness in healingJames shares why slow work is not “less work” — it’s nervous-system-friendly work. The body moves at the pace of safety, not urgency.✨ How simple, consistent practices reshape the systemJames offers examples of easy, daily nervous system resets that help build resilience and reduce chronic activation.✨ Why somatic work is exploding onlineFrom TikTok trends to collective burnout, they touch on why so many people are increasingly turning toward body-based healing.About James (Soma Reset Toronto)James is a somatic practitioner and educator based in Toronto. Through his practice, Soma Reset, and his fast-growing TikTok presence under Nervous System Care Toronto, he offers accessible teachings on nervous system regulation, trauma physiology, and embodied healing. His content has helped millions understand their patterns, reconnect with their bodies, and explore somatic work in a grounded, non-performative way.Key TakeawaysHealing happens in the body first, story second.Regulation is built in connection, not isolation.The nervous system responds to consistency more than intensity.Slow is safe. Slow is sustainable. Slow is healing.Somatic work is not a trend — it is a remembering.Connect with JamesSoma Reset Toronto : https://somabody.com/pages/somaresetTikTok: @nervoussystemcaretorontoInstagram: @somabody_
Transcribe →Leveling Up: Moving Beyond Trauma-Informed Practice
Oct 2001:00:21Tap to summarizeSeason 4 of The Trauma-Informed Lawyer Podcast launches with an invitation — and a challenge — to everyone working in law and leadership. In this episode, Myrna shares insights from her talk to judges on how trauma, culture, and integrity intersect in the pursuit of justice.She reframes the trauma-informed movement as just the starting point. True transformation happens when we move beyond awareness to embodiment — when we center humanity, integrity, and relational accountability in every interaction and decision.Themes explored:Why trauma-informed practice is the bare minimum standard in today’s justice systemsHow cultural responsiveness deepens empathy and understanding in judicial decision-makingWhat it means to embody integrity in leadership rolesPractical strategies for judges and legal professionals to bring humanity into their workThe importance of self-awareness and wellness as justice toolsMentioned in this episode:Myrna’s training and speaking work with the judiciaryTrauma-informed principles in judicial reasoningThe call for systems change rooted in relational accountabilityConnect with Myrna:website: www.myrnamccallum.co IG @thetraumainformedlawyer TT: traumainformedlawyer LI: thetraumainformedlawyer
Transcribe →Unbroken: Angela Sterritt on Survival, Storytelling, and Holding onto Hope
Aug 2801:16:58Tap to summarizeAngela Sterritt is an award-winning Gitxsan woman and former journalist who has been recognized for her groundbreaking reporting on Indigenous issues. Her memoir Unbroken has been hailed as both heartbreaking and inspiring, weaving her own story of survival with broader systemic patterns of violence against Indigenous women and girls. In this episode, Angela and Myrna talk about:The power of naming and telling our stories.What it means to carry responsibility as a storyteller.Finding strength in truth and justice.The responsibility settlers have to confront colonialism - and heal their traumas.Hope, healing and dreaming.Lessons from Unbroken. You can buy Unbroken here: https://greystonebooks.com/products/unbroken?srsltid=AfmBOoqhuCNYtQusjdLaUrhMK40ubfBurFr4fRpCXe7mfEIpHuc6w42K and to learn more about Angela Sterritt, please visit her website at: https://angelasterritt.com/To watch the panel with Angela from the 2025 Justice as Trauma Conference, please visit Myrna's video library: https://www.myrnamccallum.co/video-libraryTo get pre-sale tickets to the next Justice as Trauma Conference in Vancouver from April 7-9 (where Angela will be speaking) please visit: https://www.myrnamccallum.co/jat2026
Transcribe →Reflections from Justice as Trauma 2025: If Not You, Then Who?
Mar 26, 202500:41:00Tap to summarizeIn this episode, I bring listeners back to the Justice as Trauma Conference held last week in Vancouver, by sharing a compilation of feedback and testimonials from attendees. Their reflections highlight the deep impact of the conference and the importance of integrating trauma-informed and culturally responsive practices into our work. I also share my keynote, which explored healing, humility, and humanity in the legal profession. I invite listeners to pause and reflect on these essential questions:➡️ If not you, then who?➡️ If not now, when?This keynote which begins at 21:40 serves as both a reflection and a challenge to step into the work of creating safer, more compassionate spaces in law, leadership, and advocacy. Some Key Takeaways:Healing Through Justice: Integrating trauma-informed practices into systems and relationships.Humility as Strength: Embracing lifelong learning and acknowledging our limits.Humanity in Leadership: Creating authentic, compassionate spaces where safety and trust can thrive.🔗 Explore More:Discover upcoming trainings at www.myrnamccallum.coSubscribe to The Trauma-Informed Lawyer podcast for future episodes.Connect with me on LinkedIn, IG and TikTok to continue the conversation.
Transcribe →The Willingness to Adapt: Jordan Assaraf and the Ukraine Airlines Case
Mar 13, 202500:57:49Tap to summarizeIn this episode, I sit down with personal injury lawyer Jordan Assaraf to discuss his role as co-counsel for the plaintiffs in the Ukraine Airlines case. Jordan shares his insights on the challenges of advocating for victims of large-scale tragedies and how his willingness to adapt has shaped his approach to trauma-informed legal work.We explore:🔹 The complexities of the Ukraine Airlines case and the commitment to do no further harm to the families of the victims🔹 How Jordan’s background in personal injury law informs his work in mass litigation🔹 The importance of a trauma-informed approach when working with survivors and their families🔹 What it means to adapt as a lawyer in high-stakes, emotionally charged casesJoin us for a powerful conversation on justice, resilience, and the evolving role of legal professionals in supporting those impacted by tragedy. If you can join us at the Justice as Trauma Conference, visit www.myrnamccallum.co for more info and tickets. You can check out the Ukraine Airlines case and the trauma informed guidelines Jordan helped create here: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2024/2024onsc3303/2024onsc3303.htmlGuest Bio:Jordan Assaraf is a personal injury lawyer with extensive experience in complex litigation. His work on the Ukraine Airlines case reflects his commitment to advocating for those who have been harmed and ensuring a trauma-informed approach to legal representation. You can learn more about Jordan's work at www.gluckstein.com You can also read Jordan's blog post here: https://www.gluckstein.com/news-item/are-we-seeing-a-positive-paradigm-shift-in-our-justice-system--trauma-informed-trial-guidelines-for-ukraine-international-airlines-flight-752 Gluckstein also has their very own podcast: https://www.gluckstein.com/resources/videos-and-podcasts
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