183. Joe Rogan: On Trump Interview, Media Manipulation, UFC Journey, & De-Extinction

Summary

Podcast Summary: Episode 183 – Joe Rogan: On Trump Interview, Media Manipulation, UFC Journey, & De-Extinction

Introduction In Episode 183 of The Ultimate Human podcast, host Gary Brecka engages in a comprehensive and dynamic conversation with renowned comedian, UFC commentator, and podcast pioneer Joe Rogan. Released on July 15, 2025, this episode delves into Rogan's multifaceted career, his insights into media manipulation, his deep ties with the UFC, and intriguing discussions on ancient mysteries and de-extinction technologies.

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1. Early Life and Martial Arts Journey Joe Rogan opens up about his formative years, highlighting his intense commitment to martial arts from ages 15 to 21. Competing frequently, he recounts how his peers' encouragement led him to explore stand-up comedy.

• Notable Quote:
  “From the time I was 15 till I was 21, all I did was compete.” [00:00]

2. Transition to Comedy and Moving to Los Angeles Rogan discusses his leap from martial arts to comedy, reflecting on the fears and challenges of his first open mic night. He then details his move to Los Angeles in 2020 amid the pandemic, motivated by both personal reasons and the city's burgeoning wellness culture.

• Notable Quote:
  “I was probably more scared going on stage the first time than anything I'd ever done, including fighting.” [00:20]

3. Involvement with the UFC Rogan shares his journey with the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC), starting as a post-fight interviewer in 1997. He elaborates on the UFC's financial struggles during its early years and how the Fertitta brothers' investment and the creation of The Ultimate Fighter reality show propelled the organization to global prominence.

• Notable Quote:
  “By the time the UFC took off in 2005, they were in the hole $40 million.” [27:58]

4. The Rise of The Ultimate Fighter and UFC’s Global Expansion The conversation covers the pivotal role of The Ultimate Fighter in reviving the UFC, citing the Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar fight as a turning point. Rogan emphasizes the transition from mixed martial arts being a niche sport to becoming one of the fastest-growing sports worldwide.

• Notable Quote:
  “It was a perfect fight to introduce people to the UFC. And then the next thing you know, it became huge.” [28:34]

5. Transition to Podcasting and Joe Rogan’s Success Rogan discusses his foray into podcasting, starting with early, unpolished episodes that gradually gained traction. He attributes the success of his podcast to genuine curiosity and a desire to engage in meaningful conversations without succumbing to external pressures or expectations.

• Notable Quote:
  “Everybody that I put on the show is all the only reason they're on the show is because I want to talk to them.” [40:04]

6. Ancient Mysteries and De-Extinction Technologies Shifting gears, the episode delves into fascinating topics like the Great Pyramid of Giza, its unexplained structural complexities, and theories surrounding ancient civilizations' technological prowess. Rogan and Brecka explore cutting-edge de-extinction projects by companies like Colossal Biologics, discussing the ethical implications and potential risks of resurrecting extinct species such as direwolves and possibly Neanderthals.

• Notable Quote:
  “They were trying to sort out. And so when I was a kid, there was all these different arguments about what was the best martial art.” [08:49] (Note: While this quote is about martial arts, similar detailed discussions occur later in the transcript regarding ancient mysteries.)

7. Vulnerabilities of Modern Society Rogan and Brecka critically analyze the fragility of modern infrastructures, highlighting risks like solar flares, cybersecurity threats, and overreliance on technology. They discuss scenarios where societal collapse could lead to a regression to hunter-gatherer lifestyles, emphasizing the importance of resilience and preparedness.

• Notable Quote:
  “We're real vulnerable, like society and human beings in general. And we're vulnerable.” [56:07]

8. Media Manipulation and Political Discourse The episode touches on the manipulation within mainstream media, especially concerning political figures like former President Donald Trump. Rogan expresses concerns over biased reporting, misinformation, and the challenges of maintaining honest discourse in a polarized environment.

• Notable Quote:
  “How about the people that are involved in that race? Russiagate scandal? Like, unbelievable. None of those to this day.” [81:02]

9. Health, Biohacking, and Lifestyle Choices Rogan and Brecka discuss various health optimization strategies, including dietary choices, supplementation, and biohacking techniques. They emphasize living by example, adopting healthy habits, and the importance of managing both mental and physical well-being to achieve one's ultimate potential.

• Notable Quote:
  “You have to do your best in all areas of life... figure out what you have to do to manage your mind, manage your body and your life.” [114:06]

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Conclusion Episode 183 of The Ultimate Human provides a deep dive into Joe Rogan's diverse experiences and perspectives. From his roots in martial arts and comedy to his pivotal role in the UFC's resurgence and the expansive reach of his podcast, Rogan offers valuable insights into personal growth, societal vulnerabilities, and the frontiers of science and technology. Gary Brecka and Joe Rogan conclude with reflections on what it means to strive for excellence and become one's ultimate self, encouraging listeners to embrace health, knowledge, and resilience.

Final Thoughts:

• Gary Brecka’s Closing Statement:
  “Do your best. You don't, you know, you want to enjoy this life. And if you're healthy physically and mentally, you'll have a better life.” [115:35]

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This episode is a must-listen for enthusiasts of personal development, sports, and forward-thinking discussions on the future of humanity and technology.

Transcript

[A]

I was really in a bind when I was young because I was like, what am I going to do with my life? From the time I was 15 till I was 21, all I did was compete.

[B]

It was the buddies that you were actually doing martial arts with that pushed you to do comedy.

[A]

Yeah. Everybody was like, what are you doing? And then open mic night. I was probably more scared going on stage the first time than anything I'd ever done, including fighting.

[B]

Yeah. And it didn't go well. Like.

[A]

The values that I have for real, not to be supported by a bunch of businesses that are trying to push these things because they're going to profit. Is it because you really care about people, or is it because you're reaping massive profit?

[B]

That's the whole thing with the Make America Healthy Again movement is not about taking away the freedom of choice. It's about getting some of the corruption, which means there are ways to do this that are just a lot healthier for us.

[A]

Well, here's what's crazy. They're saying, this is going to kill our business. Bitch, you already make them for other countries that don't have that.

[B]

That's the craziest thing.

[A]

You won't do it for us. The best thing about what you do is, like, live by example, talk about what's healthy. And then the more people hear it and then they start to act that, and then they start feeling better, because the more influence you have in that regard, more people will make healthy choices.

[B]

I know there's a lot of influencers out there like yourself. What do you think the it factor is that separates the Joe Rogan podcast from the rest of the media by such a margin?

[A]

I think what you do and what I do, that's the most important thing is.

[B]

Ultimate human. Hey, guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecker, where we go down the road of everything. Anti aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And today's podcast is definitely going to be in between. Welcoming a UFC commentator, a fighter, a podcaster, a very accomplished comedian, and just an all around incredible human. Welcome to the podcast.

[A]

Pleasure being here. Thank you.

[B]

Had a long time in the making, man. I'm so. I'm so pumped to sit down with you today.

[A]

My pleasure. Thank you.

[B]

You know, in Austin, Texas, it's like there's like, a real wellness vibe here.

[A]

Yeah, there certainly is.

[B]

I wouldn't have thought 10 years ago that Austin, Texas, would be like the home of wellness. I mean, it's the Comedy mothership. I mean, there's like a, like a real wellness vibe here. I mean, there's so many restaurants that are like seed oil free and glyphosate free, and I think they've caught the bug here.

[A]

It's a healthy city. You know, it's been a healthy city for a long time. If you go to Lady Bird Lake, there's always people running and it's, It's a really healthy place. And there's, you know, we started on it here way back in 2010, you know, so there's always been like a, like a fitness. It's a really big jujitsu city too, now.

[B]

Yeah, but you didn't come until the pandemic.

[A]

Right, Right. I moved here in 2020, in August of 2020, which is, you know, that.

[B]

Seems even odd to me too, because, you know, that's height of your comedy career. And I would think, you know, being a comedian, the, you know, that, that vibe seems like New York, Louisiana.

[A]

Well, they had shut LA down. That was one of the easiest actually motivations to move here. They'd shut LA down during the pandemic. And first it was supposed to be two weeks, and then by, by May, you know, so we're talking like March, April, May by, you know, March, everything shut down by May. I was already looking to move. You were like, yeah, I was like, these are never going to let this go.

[B]

Yeah. And they lock down hard.

[A]

Yeah, they locked down it wouldn't even let people do outside shows. They wouldn't let us do outside shows. In the parking lot of the Comedy Store. They tried to set up a show outside. It didn't make any sense.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It wasn't logical, it wasn't reasonable. And the people that were running the government, it was the first time I ever said, oh, it's important who your mayor is. Like, I think it was like, who gives a shit who the mayor is?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I never cared.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I never even voted for mayor.

[B]

I was like, yeah, the pendulum slowing way too far. I mean, I mean, then, now you look at the, like the wildfires and just all the nonsense that's happened out there, I mean, it's like an abject.

[A]

Failure, pure madness in la. And they're not going to course change. They're not going to course correct. Yeah, it's going to. They're going to ride that thing right into the rocks.

[B]

Yeah. And you just wonder how they're going to pull out of that. Because, you know, we were out there week before last and I drove through the Palisades And. And it doesn't seem like they've even touched it. I mean, there's nothing.

[A]

No, they've done very little so far.

[B]

It's. It's just. It. It looks like a third world country out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you move here during the pandemic, and was this because of your comedy career? Because you just were like, hey, I need.

[A]

Well, it was a lot of. There was a lot of factors. My kids were the youngest kids were 10 and 12 at the time, and I didn't want them growing up in LA already. And it was an opportunity to get out of L. A, which I've been. I tried to get out of l. A in 2009 when my young. My middle daughter, when she was one, I moved to Colorado for a little bit, but we were in the mountains way above Boulder, and it's really, like, very high altitude, and my wife got pregnant while we're up there, and then it's really rough on pregnant women to be, like, 8,500ft above sea level. It was. So we had a. We had a bail on that. And then when I went back to la, but I always had it in my mind that I was going to escape.

[B]

You're going to get out of the taxes and then. And the nonsense.

[A]

Well, it's not. The taxes are one thing, but I would be happy with paying taxes if it made sense, if you guys were doing a great job and if there wasn't tents on every street corner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it was just. It was so crazy.

[B]

Yeah. So you. You know, for my audience, I want to rewind the clock a little bit. I mean, of course, I think the whole world knows you as a podcast host, and obviously they're familiar with your comedy career and your career at the ufc. So I want to take you back to the. The early 80s in Boston. And, you know, Dana and a lot of people call this the Mafia era. Right. And I know you weren't in the.

[A]

Mafia, but I actually trained a guy who was a hitman.

[B]

Really? Okay.

[A]

So, yeah, when I was in Taekwondo, one of the hitmen for Whitey Bulger.

[B]

That's one of the reasons why Dana had to leave that.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Which is so crazy because, you know, you guys came from the same place now. Your worlds didn't collide for years later.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I find it really interesting that you guys are so close now and your careers are, you know, intertwined, and you guys have been really loyal to each other, but you both came from this mafia area, early Boston, 80s. But you know, my father is a salty old Navy captain, has a definition of life, and he says life is what happens to you when you're on your way to doing something else. And as I was kind of looking through your background, I feel like that's a really good explanation of what happened to you. You started this martial arts career, Taekwondo. Right. And. And. And you actually became a taekwondo champion. I think you won the Massachusetts. Massachusetts? What state?

[A]

Yeah, I won that four years in a row. Years in a row. I won one of the American opening championships. I came in second in the US cup in the year that it was the Olympics. So the guy who I. It was a bad decision. I. I thought I should have won, but he went on to be the national champion and fight the Olympics.

[B]

Wow. And. And this was Taekwondo. And it's just like your early martial arts.

[A]

That was the first thing. And that was also part of the problem, is once I started kickboxing, I realized Taekwondo is kind of silly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I started doing Muay Thai, and then I realized, oh, that's. That's even silly to not have leg kicks. Leg kicks are even more important. Then I started doing jiu jitsu. I'm like, oh, my God, it's all silly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because as soon as someone grabs you, you're doomed.

[B]

What was the inspiration for that? I mean, early ufc, like Hoist Gracie.

[A]

This was before the early ufc. So I was fighting. My last fight, I think, was 89.

[B]

Professional fight or kick.

[A]

It was amateur. I never fought professionally. But then UFC didn't come along till 93, and, you know, I was already, you know, doing standup comedy. And I was. At the time, I was just moving to la, and then I'd watched a videotape of the UFC on. I became obsessed. I found UFC 2. It came out on VHS, dude.

[B]

That's when you could just kick in the face when people are down on all fours. I remember. I actually remember very vividly somebody's tooth just literally flying out of the ring, going over the octagon. And I remember Hoist Gracie's fights going on for almost 30 minutes.

[A]

Yeah, he had some.

[B]

Long as he was after some of those fights.

[A]

I think he had a 90 minute one in. In Pride.

[B]

Insane. Just saying, no time limit, no rules.

[A]

Yeah, it was a wild time, you know, where they were trying to sort out. And so when I was a kid, there was all these different arguments about what was the best martial art. You know, the jud guys would tell you, judo's the best. Boxers would tell you, that's the best. No one really knew until the UFC came along. It was all just theory.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then once Hori and Gracie decided to put together this cage and have. And you know, in the beginning, he wanted to have like a moat around it and have crocodiles.

[B]

No. Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So crazy. Run into really medieval.

[A]

He wanted to make it just completely ridiculous to be, obviously for marketing Super Gladiator. Yeah, they had some really wild ideas, but until that first UFC came along, no one really knew what was effective. The Gracies knew more than anybody because they had a bunch of challenge fights that they did in Brazil, and they did Vale Tudo events. You know, Hickson had some pretty big fights in Brazil where their big audiences.

[B]

And were those fights where they could. They could use Muay Thai or any.

[A]

They could use anything.

[B]

Anything.

[A]

They bare knuckle, you know. Yeah.

[B]

Because I remember at one time when I, When I was younger, I remember hoist made a statement. He said, I'm. I'm not afraid of any man. I'll. I'll fight any man. And I saw him. There was the Hawaiian dude that had the ponytail.

[A]

Chemo.

[B]

Chemo, yeah. Who just looked like an absolute wrecking ball.

[A]

It was huge. He was £260. And the hoist was like 175 at the time.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I still, I still remember those. He was on his back and in the guard, grabbing his. Grab this. Yeah, you could grab it back then. You can't do it in the UFC now.

[A]

You can punch in the ball walls. It was crazy.

[B]

Yeah. You could kick in the face on the ground. So. So this brutal sports, you know, emerging, and, you know, you're, you're working your way through your martial arts career, but at some point, I think you knew because of your upbringing, you didn't want to be in the construction business. Your dad was an architect.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And. And you, you sort of grew up before you got into martial arts on construction sites.

[A]

Yeah. And.

[B]

And I had a similar upbringing. I actually grew up on a. On a tobacco farm. My. My parents, when I was young and I hated it, and now all I want to do is get back. So they bought 12 acres in the middle of this, like, 300 acre tobacco farm, and then they leased the land back to a farmer for a dollar, and they. And he grew tobacco. So my whole life growing up, until I went off to college, I was, I was cutting tobacco.

[A]

Where was this?

[B]

And this is in Southern Maryland? Upper Marlborough. Right outside of PG County. Yeah. Most people don't realize it's a big tobacco country there.

[A]

No idea.

[B]

And it's, it's. If you've never seen tobacco get cut, it's the hardest manual labor you'll ever do. It's absolutely brutal.

[A]

Really? Oh, why is it so brutal?

[B]

Because you, you cut tobacco in August by hand. So imagine a field like as far as you can see, just rows and rows of these six foot tall tobacco plants. Five of these plants weigh about 60 pounds. And you got to push the plant over and cut it with a machete. Push it over, cut it with a machete, push it over, cut it with a machete. And you walk from one end of this field to the other end of the field and you turn around and come back. It's just brutally monotonous. And it's hot. And the gum gets. You have to shave your arms. You have to wear long sleeves so that tobacco juice doesn't get on you.

[A]

Oh, wow. Do you get a nicotine high from like your skin?

[B]

You know, I think so. I never, I never chewed tobacco or dip tobacco like all my buddies like dip tobacco. And now that I know it was in that, with the glass and everything to cut your lips, it's like.

[A]

Oh, yeah, like skull. Yeah.

[B]

It's like when I went back to my 30 year high school reunion, I felt like I was on a different planet. I was like, man, these people look like aliens. I'm so, I'm so glad I found biohacking. You know, I remember there's one kid, if you, if you're still alive, I, I hope you're watching. His name was Ike Moreland and he owned. I don't even know why I'm going down this road, but I just had a childhood memory come back and I saw him at my high school reunion. I'm like, this kid beat me up in the eighth grade, you know, I remember you telling the story about being put in a headlock, and I think it was in high school and, and somebody wrenched you to the ground and he pulled back to punch you in the face. And for some reason he actually decided not to hit you.

[A]

Yeah, he was. So, he felt sorry for me. He decided not to beat me up.

[B]

But at that moment you realized, I'm so fricking helpless. I gotta do something about this.

[A]

That's when I started wrestling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I wanted to run it again at 50 years old with Ike Moreland. But no, I'm like, I held on to that. Great. I was 14. Dude. I'm coming back for, for, for payback. But, but I just, I very much identify with not wanting to do the structured kind of labor as a long term career.

[A]

Well, I also didn't want to have an office job. I was really in a bind. And that was a real dilemma for me when I was young because I was like, what am I going to do with my life? I had to find something unconventional. I had just too much energy to sit down, which I didn't know at the time. That's a good thing. Like, I just needed to find something else. But no one would ever guide you saying, oh, you should be a comedian or you should be something else.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it was always like, you have one path and that is to get a job. Yeah. And Boston was a very blue collar town. It was a very hard working town. And they, they really respected if you worked hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you didn't, you were lazy, you were shunned, you know, and that's just.

[B]

Yeah. Not a lot of role models that had broken out of the Matrix, like.

[A]

You know, none gone and no.

[B]

To look up to.

[A]

No. They looked at you like you were an alien. Like, what are you trying to do? It is like teaching martial arts at least was kind of respectable, kind of made sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, oh, I get he's teaching martial arts. So that's what I did for until I was 21. And then when I started doing standup comedy, I realized, like, I've got to pick a path I can't be doing. I can't have one foot in each world.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you know, what was your.

[B]

It was your. It was the buddies that you were actually doing martial arts with that pushed you to do comedy.

[A]

Yeah, right. Yeah, I was the guys that I was.

[B]

Because you were the funny guy in the locker room before fights, like trying to take the tension.

[A]

We would go to tournaments and everybody would be so scared. It was like there was so much anxiety and, you know, fear in the air that I would have to cut the night. I would have to cut it. You know, I'd be the guy that would be cracking everybody up, try to break the tension.

[B]

But I think there's a big difference between chopping it up with your boys and walking on stage in front of an audience.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Yeah, that was my thought. Like I. You guys think I'm funny because you're all a bunch of psychopaths.

[B]

Yeah. Was it like a sobering moment going up on that stage for the first time and going, I gotta, I gotta say, I gotta say something?

[A]

Well, I thought about it for a long time. Because I waited until I was 21 to get into a bar because, you know, that was the age that you could get into a bar. So I. I didn't think I could do. They actually let some people in before they're 21. You just have to get like an exemption from the club. They have to make sure that you don't drink. But I didn't know that. So I had about six months where I was contemplating it, where I wrote material down and, you know, and tried it out on my friends and thought about doing it, and they're all like, what are you doing? Like, everybody was like, what are you doing? And then open mic night. I was probably more scared going on stage the first time than anything I'd ever done, including fighting. And I remember thinking, boy, this doesn't make any sense. Like, I'd probably fought a hundred times by then. And I was like, this is so weird that I'm. Because from the time I was 15 till I was 21, all I did was compete. I traveled all over the country. I fought almost every weekend or every other weekend, once a month for sure. I was always competing. And you fight multiple times in a day.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I wasn't scared of that. Like, I was scared of that, but not like I was a stand up, stand up. I was petrified.

[B]

Yeah. And it didn't go well. Like, the first one.

[A]

I got, that's.

[B]

Like, even reinforces the fear.

[A]

But nobody was doing well. That was the other thing. It was like, everybody bombs on open mic night. Which is the good thing, because he realized, like, as bad as you are, like, at least I'm not as bad as that guy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. He really bunk.

[A]

It's like you're just trying to get a couple chuckles, you know, and then if you got. If I got. I got a couple chuckles. And I was like, I think I can do this. And then the second time I went on stage, I actually got laughs because I was more comfortable, I was less scared, and I was more loose. And then I bombed the third time. And then, you know, it takes a while. You have to figure it out.

[B]

Yeah. Because this is. I mean, the. The big move to LA was for comedy.

[A]

Well, I only moved to LA because I got a development deal. I was living in New York at the time, and I was doing stand up and I got on something called the MTV half hour Comedy hour. And right on. You do like 10 minutes or something like that. There was a bunch of comedians and it went really well. And I got a development deal, which is Some weird thing where they give you a pile of money. Like, for the first time in my life, I think it was $150,000.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I had like, this is crazy. I have money. And. And then they wanted me to do a sitcom for this development deal. So. Okay. So then I came out to LA and I did this sitcom, and I didn't even like doing it.

[B]

I hated it.

[A]

And I wanted to go back to New York, but I had got a lease on an apartment, so I'm like, well, I got to stay out here a year. And then after that show got canceled, I was still there because of my lease. And then I got another development deal to do this thing at NBC. And that turned out to be how I got news radio. So that was with Bill Hartman, Andy Dick, and all those super talented people. And I did that for five years. And then Fear Factor, it's just, like, all the while still doing stand up at the Comedy Store. And. But it was. I didn't come out to L. A for anything other than money. It was just. I couldn't believe that you could get $25,000 for a week of work. I'm like, this is crazy.

[B]

Yeah, this is crazy. And so when you're out there, you. I remember you talking about Fear Factor as being, like, something you thought would never take off.

[A]

Yeah. I did it because you're like, this.

[B]

Is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[A]

I'm like, we're going to stick dogs on people and make them eat dicks. Yeah, I'm in cockroaches.

[B]

All.

[A]

I was thinking, like, this is going to be great material. I'm going to have some great material out of this.

[B]

I love the show. What? Finally blew it up. They did some stunt that was, like, inappropriate, but I forget what it was.

[A]

Well, that was the second time we did it, so we did it for six years. So we did 148 episodes for six years. Then we came back again. Again, I think it was 2011, because my youngest daughter was one at the time. And that was six episodes. And then they. They made them drink. Donkey come. They had to play horseshoes to see how much donkey come you had a drink. And there's only been two times when I did that show where I told the producers, hey, man, you can't do this.

[B]

This is like.

[A]

And that was one of them.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, first of all, the first thing that comes to mind, obviously, is how do you get donkey gum?

[A]

Yeah. Well, you actually use a cattle prod and you. You stick it. Oh, you don't have the donkey's butt. And then we. You shock their prostate and they just bust. And then you collect it, and then you get some poor kid who's got credit card debt and that kid is on Fear Factor to try to pay off his credit card debt generally.

[B]

Dude, I gotta. I want to be like. I want to be a fly on the room. I mean, on the wall in the. In the producer's room.

[A]

It was a fun room.

[B]

I got. I got a great idea, guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. We're going to take a cattle prod.

[A]

Well up a donkey's ass. The second time we did it, we're going to make. So we stopped doing it in 2007, and it didn't even really get canceled. I mean, I guess it got canceled because they never did it again, but it would just. They just stopped doing it. We did so many of them was just. Everyone was worn out. We, like. I said we did 148 episodes in six years. And then they waited, like, five years. And then I get this phone call. Do you want to do Fear Factor again? I was like, oh, my God, Are you guys serious? And then I went in to meet with them. It's going to be bigger than ever and this and that, and only you can host it. And, you know, my kids were young at the time. I was like, I probably could use this money. All right, let's do it. And again, I was like. This time I was right. I was like, this. This is not gonna last. And I was correct. That time they. Because they were going way too far. The second time because they were trying to make it bigger and crazier than ever. I'm like, someone's gonna get hurt. Luckily, no one really did. But the other time that I said, don't do it, other than the donkey jizz, was they had a ride bulls. When they had to ride bulls, I was like, don't do this.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Somebody's gonna really get hurt.

[A]

This is so fun.

[B]

Did they do that episode?

[A]

Yeah, they did that episode.

[B]

Really?

[A]

We just got lucky that no one got hurt.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that. You can get really jacked up.

[A]

These are real bulls, too, man.

[B]

And nobody knew what they were doing riding a bull.

[A]

Oh, they'd say, hold on. Okay. Like, that was the height of reality tv and, you know.

[B]

Yeah, it was the genesis of it, really.

[A]

So Survivor was the big one, right? So Survivor happened first, and everybody was all into these reality shows. And there was a show called now or Neverland that was in Holland, and NBC purchased that or end them all. Purchased that show and then brought it to America and changed the name to Fear Factor.

[B]

Wow. So what time does the early commentating.

[A]

For the UFC 97? I started work. Yeah. Before Fear Factor, while I was on News Radio. Campbell McLaren, who was one of the producers of the UFC, was good friends with my manager, Jeff, and they were just having a conversation about how they needed a new post fight interviewer because they got rid of the guy they had. And Jeff was like, joe loves the ufc. And I was like, first I was, you know, I, you know, I watched it. You couldn't even get it on cable tv. It was banned from cable, so you had to get DirecTV to get it because they, like Budweiser and John McCain, they were doing some shady. To ban it.

[B]

They were, yeah.

[A]

Human fighting. And they contacted me and said, we need someone to be a post fight interview. And I'm like, yeah, let's do it.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

And then I went to Dothan, Alabama. We were supposed to do it in. I think it was Albany, New York. Albany or Buffalo.

[B]

Because it wasn't sanctioned. Right. I mean, obviously.

[A]

No, it was also. It was New York State Bandit, like, right before we did it. So we got sent down. They. They had a backup plan. The backup plan was Alabama. So we went to this place in Dothan, Alabama, that was UFC 12.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

1997. And I did that for about two years, but it was actually. At the time, it was actually costing me money because I would do the ufc and I couldn't do comedy that weekend, so I was making more money doing comedy. But I really love doing it. But I was like, this is not going anywhere. And it wasn't getting anywhere as far as cable. Like, they were really banned.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then what happened was the Fertitta brothers and Dana came along and purchased it in 2001.

[B]

And what UFC was that? Right.

[A]

Well, I came back. UFC 37 and a half was the first time I did commentary. Before that, I was just doing post fight interviews. And what happened was that was 2001, and it was. They were on Fox Sports for the first time. It was like the best damn sports show, period. Remember that show?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

[A]

They had an episode that they did where they. They did the Ufc on Fox, and it was like a big thing to have it on Fox Sports.

[B]

Yeah, but it was sanctioned then.

[A]

It was sanctioned in Vegas. Yeah. Okay. So what happened was, you know, the Fertittas were very wealthy, and one of the things my friend Eddie Bravo and I, we'd always said was, you know, what the sport needs. Like, we love the sport. What the sport needs is someone to come along that has a ton of money, that just can throw a bunch of money at it and then show the world how great it is, and then it'll just become successful. And that's what happened. Like the Fertittas came along, these billionaire guys who love the sport and training in the sport and Dana and they just came along and put it together. And Dana and I became friends because he was, you know, like inviting celebrities to come. And this is when I was hosting Fear Factor and it was the number one show in the world. And he was like, why don't you come and and see the fights? I'd be like, I'd love to. When are you having them? Is in Vegas. Then he and I would get together and I'd go, what about this fight? Do you know about this guy? Have you ever watched these guys fight in Japan? Do you know about Pride? Do you know about Fedor Emelianenko? Have you ever. You ever seen all these? And I was like naming all these different fighters and. And then he saw, he found a tape somewhere of me on the Keenan Ivory Wayne show making fun of like Steven Seagal or something like that and talking about the ufc.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then he goes, would you. Will you do commentary? And I'm like, I don't want to work, man. I go, I just want to come and watch the fights. Honestly, I don't. Because I was like, I had already done that before. Yeah, it was too much of a pain.

[B]

And it wasn't getting the money in your pockets either.

[A]

Yeah, it was.

[B]

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[A]

So I did. I did it for one, just for Dana, because we're friends, and then I want to still do. I kept doing them, and I did like the first, like 13 or 14 of them, I did for free after they bought it. Yeah. I just, I said, okay, let's just get, get, get me plane flights and get my friends tickets and I'll do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I did a bunch of. Because they were hemorrhaging money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, I was friends with Dennis. He was telling me how much money they were losing. I'm like, oh, Jesus. So by the time the UFC took off in 2005, they were in the hole. So I'd been working for them for four years. At the time, they were in the hole $40 million. Wow. Yeah. And this was this one thing where they did the Ultimate Fighter. They go, look, we're going to put together a reality show. They couldn't get it aired. They had to pay for all the sponsors. They had a. They had a bankroll the entire show. And they said, this is it. This is the. We're going to get one shot, and if this doesn't work, we're fucked up.

[B]

Yeah, it worked.

[A]

And. And Forrest Griffin versus Stefan Bonner.

[B]

I remember that crazy fight.

[A]

It was so crazy that the whole world started tuning in.

[B]

I remember he gave him both contracts at the end of the fight. I remember.

[A]

So close. It was such a close fight. It was a perfect fight to introduce people to the ufc. And then next thing you know, it became huge.

[B]

Yeah. And. And, you know, back then, it was like nobody was a full time ufc Fighter. They're like, right, it's Rich Franklin, a history teacher from.

[A]

He's a math teacher or math teacher. And you're like, what?

[B]

And this guy was a cop, a firefighter. This guy was.

[A]

Yeah. There was no full time fighters at the time. Well, there's probably a few that figured it out. I think Frank Shamrock was full time. There's a few guys that were like, legitimately full time, but it was a hard way to make a living. And, you know, it was like human fighting. Nobody respected. It was like, you know, when I would tell my friends, when I was working on news radio, and I would tell my friends that I was going to do these UFC events, like. Like, why are you doing that? Like, you shouldn't be associated with that.

[B]

It was. Yeah.

[A]

Almost like you're doing snuff films or something.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[A]

Connecting yourself to something so shady.

[B]

And then it just became the fastest growing sport in the world. I think it's still probably.

[A]

It's. Well, it's absolutely huge.

[B]

I read something about the opening in Asia and that it returned it to the fastest growing sport in the world.

[A]

So. That was 20 years ago. So 20 years ago it popped.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you just never stopped.

[A]

No.

[B]

And. And, you know, there's. There's rumors that, you know, you and Dana have been so loyal to each other that your. Your contract in the USC was if one goes, you both go.

[A]

That's mine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. If they get rid of him. Yeah, I'm gone.

[B]

Wow. That's. You know, I find Dana to be one of the most loyal human beings in the world. He's done a lot for me.

[A]

He's an awesome dude. I love him to death.

[B]

I love.

[A]

He's just a great guy and the perfect guy to be at the head of such a chaotic sport because the sport is so crazy. It's like you need a maniac at.

[B]

The helm, and you also need somebody whose compass doesn't. Doesn't shift. I mean, you see all these reporters trying to knock him off track all the time, and he just puts them right back in check.

[A]

Well, he doesn't give a fuck. He really doesn't. He has real fuck you money. And I've always said, if you have fuck you money, you don't say fuck you. You're wasting all that fuck you money, you know, because it's the only reason to have it is to be able to do whatever you actually want.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the guy loves fights. He and I will have conversations where I'll come up, like, one o' clock in the morning, and we'll have, like, a fight talk for, like, two hours.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, all the time.

[B]

Yeah, He. He actually just loves this.

[A]

Loves it. Yeah, he loves it.

[B]

And he. And he knows the sport.

[A]

He loves it. Yeah. But he only watches the ufc, so I'm always telling him about all these guys that are fighting in Japan. This guy's fighting in Russia. You pay attention to this guy.

[B]

And was that a big part of what helped build the ufc? Because you started grabbing people from, like, Pride leagues and.

[A]

Well, they purchased Pride. That was the big thing, is the UFC came along and purchased Pride, but they got screwed because, really, they just bought a tape library. You know, they thought they were buying all the fighters and the contracts, but all the contracts were invalid. So then they had to, like, restructure. Oh, my God. So that's why they never got Fedor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, you know, they put out an amazing product, and Japan was putting on, like, when they were doing Pride, Japan had 80,000 people showing up at these arenas when the UFC was in relative obscurity. It was massive in Japan. I mean, absolutely massive.

[B]

The Pride fight.

[A]

Yeah. And to this day, they're some of the greatest fights of all time. You go watch the glory days of MMA and Pride and this. Not only did they have, like, soccer kicks and stomps on the ground, they also had no steroid testing at all. So everybody was sauce to the gills.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they looked it. It was a great product.

[B]

Who is the big Hawaiian that just had that crazy overhand. Can't think of his name. He looks like the dude that's in Slap. I can't think of his name, but I just remember he had these insane. There's so many, like, crazy characters that came out of that, like Tank, Abbott, and, like, all these just. Oh, yeah, Crazy, bigger than life characters. I mean, there was this one Greco Roman wrestler with a mustache that used to just.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Dan Severin.

[B]

Yeah, Dan.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, he looked like he was.

[A]

50 years old, and he fought into his 50s.

[B]

That's what I mean. He was like. He fought into his 50s, like the scariest dad ever. Had this big, bushy hair and he had this handlebar mustache, and he was kind of, like, super stoic, like. Like Fedor Emiliankoff, you know, he just kind of looked like he was bored to be gone.

[A]

Fry, he had another great mustache. He was another one.

[B]

No, I remember Don Fry, too, fought.

[A]

In Pride as well. He had some amazing fights in Pride.

[B]

Yeah, but. And then that Greco Roman wrestling Stuff was wild. The pickup, the reverse body slams and he was just picking up.

[A]

Yeah. Greco was a particularly good wrestling style for MMA because it was a lot of clinch based work. And when you're up against the cage, a guy who's really good at upper body clinches and controlling up, like Randy Couture. He was a Greco guy as well.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Yeah. So was Dan Henderson, Was Greco like a lot of these guys? I mean they all had a background in everything. They could do all kinds of wrestling.

[B]

But yeah, Randy fought pretty late too. He was in his late 40s. I actually remember his tooth flying out of the ring too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Who was the Machida.

[A]

He caught him with a jumping front kick.

[B]

Front kick. I'll never forget that.

[A]

I think that was in Montreal. Yeah, Mouthpiece. That was the. I was in Toronto. Maybe it was in Toronto. There was an enormous event we did that was like 60, 000 people up there. Yeah, the pretty sure was Toronto.

[B]

And you think like images like that helped it or hurt it? I think it's, it's kind of like slap. You can't turn away.

[A]

Well, it's just brought other than. Except it was a fight where slapped me. Slap's not my thing. No, but the, just standing there letting a guy smack in the faces while.

[B]

You hold a foam roller behind your back.

[A]

I will watch it. Yeah, I'll watch it. But it's. I, I really prefer actual fights, you.

[B]

Know, and if you, if you flinch, don't you get slapped again, do you? I think you get, I think you get slapped again if you flinch.

[A]

Why do they put the powder in their hand?

[B]

I think you're supposed to see the whole, like, I think you got to see the whole handprint so you're not like just a palm striking or heel striking. There are some rules, like, oh, feet have to stay on the ground.

[A]

They have drug tests, which to me is hilarious. Like drug those people up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why are they sober?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're getting slapped, you should be on meth.

[B]

I think, I think like first of all, that's not a coin toss you want to lose. Because I would always want to go first, 100%.

[A]

It doesn't make any sense. That's part of the strategy, part of the problem. It's like you have to be really good at coin tossing.

[B]

My, my, my, my kids, Cole Dylan used to play this game when they were growing up. And it was something like if, if I went to hit you and you flinched, I got a free punch.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Kind of slaps like, kind of like that.

[A]

Yeah. A lot of kids did that when I was young. Yeah. Two for flinching.

[B]

Yeah, two for flinching. That's what it was like. They draw back, and if you flinch, they got two shots, and now they made a sport out of it, which I guess is perfect for social media, because it's like. It is the viral clips of just.

[A]

The perfect sport for TikTok. I say sport with air quotes.

[B]

Yeah. And then the chicks doing it, too, just freaks me out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now I actually read some science on brain damage. Well, I've read a lot of science on brain damage, but there literally some science to having a beard. What do you know that there is.

[A]

There's, like, cushioning.

[B]

It's like, you know, this friction coefficient and slightly decelerating the blow.

[A]

If Alex Pereira punches you in your beard, it doesn't matter what your beard.

[B]

Looks like, but I'd have a big old Santa Claus beard if I was going in there. There's a big Hawaiian heavyweight that has that big old beard.

[A]

Yeah. Did you see Josh Emmett fought this past weekend? He has an enormous beard, like, big, crazy one.

[B]

How'd he do?

[A]

He lost.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That was a good fight, though.

[B]

There goes the beer theory of.

[A]

It was a good fight.

[B]

Your theory of fighting is now out the window. Yeah, there's. I mean, there has been some. Some. Some crazy beards. So now you're. You're. You're common. You know, you're doing commentary for the ufc, and at some point, you. You decided to get into the podcast world. And what I found really fascinating was, you know, initial podcast, I think you guys had, like, 200 listeners, maybe. And I went back and watched an old podcast with, like, Eddie Bravo, and you're pretty rusty. Back then, I was like, well, it's good for everybody. Here he is. And then you don't really know what to say.

[A]

If anybody's intimidated by podcasting, go back, watch my early ones. They're terrible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like anything else. You do it. You get better at it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, but what made you stick with that versus sticking with comedy? Sticking with.

[A]

I enjoyed it.

[B]

What made you, like. Because the point that I'm trying to get to is, like, you embrace the suck.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I mean, it didn't suck, though. I enjoyed it. I just thought it would be fun to have, like, a little Internet radio show and talk to my friends. It was not a career move by any stretch of the imagination. It was just fun. Like, I. I always love doing, like, the Opie and Anthony show and Howard Stern show. I love doing radio shows. It's fun to be able to hang out with other comedians and talk and joke around.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I just decided to start doing it online. You know, I'd been on Tom Green, had his little Internet show that he did from his living room. I was like, this is fascinating. Like, you got to figure this could be the future.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I didn't really think of it as a career move. I just did it for fun. And then slowly but surely it started getting bigger. It was just a matter of just the process. Just.

[B]

I think you were one of the early movers to start putting long form content on, on YouTube. Like that was a strange thing to think that people would go to YouTube and watch a 45 minute video.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, well, there's three hours. Yeah, three hours. Even, even, even. I mean, that's long.

[A]

But that's just because I didn't care. Like, I didn't like. Yeah. My friend Ari, one of my best friends, Ari Shafir, he, he was like, you got to edit your show. I go, why? He's like, no one's gonna listen to three hours. I go, then they don't have to listen. Yeah, just don't listen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's like, it'd be better if it was like an hour, less than an hour, like 45 minutes. I was like, why? I go, I. I'll listen to a three hour show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If it's interesting.

[B]

And then people started listening.

[A]

So I just didn't listen.

[B]

And then it started growing.

[A]

I just kept doing it and it slowly but surely it got big.

[B]

And now that it's, you know, to the status of where it is, I mean, you know, billion downloads, views in a year, that is mind numbing.

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

[B]

It's so crazy. And I mean, even you've got to be just mind blown by that, that the message is resonating like that.

[A]

Honestly, I don't think about it very much. I know that sounds crazy, but I really don't. I just do it. I do it. And then once I'm, I've. Once it's done, I think about it as little as possible, just for sanity's sake. Yeah, I just like.

[B]

Yeah, we were talking about it before the podcast. You can't get reading down into the comments.

[A]

Don't read the comments.

[B]

Never read the comments.

[A]

Don't pay attention too much to what other people want you to do or what they think. Just you got to know if you're doing a, a good job. So you have to be able to be very good at self auditing, regulate yourself, figure it out yourself. But you can't listen to other people. You'll become a product of other people's expectations.

[B]

What do you think the it factor is that separates the Joe Rogan podcast from the rest of the media by such a margin?

[A]

I don't think about it. Maybe that's what it is.

[B]

Maybe that's it. No, maybe that's it. Dude. I just feel like I'm just gonna ask what I want to ask. I'm gonna say what I want to say.

[A]

I have genuine curiosity. Everybody that I put on the show is all. The only reason they're on the show is because I want to talk to them. That's the only reason I never say, oh, that one's going to get a lot of views. Ooh, this one would be controversial. I know people think I think that way, but I genuinely don't. I go, what is this guy doing? He thinks the pyramid's a power plant. Let's talk. Yeah, like what is this guy? Says he back engineered a ufo. Fuck, yeah. Yeah, let's talk.

[B]

I'm way down the rabbit hole of the pyramids. My wife Sage and I are going to Egypt on, on the 19th.

[A]

Have you seen these new radar images?

[B]

I have. And I'm like, I just talked to.

[A]

Graham Hancock about it this morning and it's legit. Oh, he thinks it's very legit. You know, there's an issue and my friend Jimmy Corsetti, who runs a great YouTube show, it's called Bright Insight, it's a really good show on ancient history. He's skeptical because there's a water table that's underneath the great Pyramid that's been there for more than a million years. But if this is. This construction is built through the water table, then it's even more impressive, whatever it is. Like, wow. Let's imagine that these pillars that are supposed to be thousands of feet deep into the ground with coils around them. Like, what is that? Like, these radar images are super consistent. They have multiple images. Now the science is pretty sound of whatever they're seeing now, whether it's some sort of an anomaly, whether it's some sort of a hallucination. No, I don't think it's even. I mean, image anomaly. Like there's something that's throwing it off. Like there's all these different methods they're using to detect these things. I. I'm too stupid to really understand it. But if it is legit and it's going, look, just to have those columns that go down to if it's going down thousands of feet into the ground and then the whole thing, I think the entire structure is 2 kilometers deep.

[B]

That's insane.

[A]

Insane. So if you have the technology to do that, you, you might have the technology do that through water, which is even more crazy. So then you have a higher level of technology, technological proficiency. I just don't know. What I do know is they're the most massive mystery in terms of human construction or construction by somebody, something that you can't explain. 2,300,000 stones, some of them the weighing upwards of 80 tons that were brought 500 miles away through the mountains with incredible precision. And just the mathematics involved, the planning, the fact that if you're off a millimeter on each of these stones by the time you get up to the top, you're fucked. It's not going to be a pyramid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like you have to have incredible precision. It's true north, south, east and west, each corner. The whole thing's crazy.

[B]

It is, it's mind numbing. And I think that what we did was we applied conventional engineering to try to solve for, for the problem and it's so far outside of the box that like we can't conceive it. Which then brings in the whole alien thing.

[A]

But not just alien thing. It really brings in ancient human history because I'm, I'm of the belief, I'm in the school thought of Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock and Jimmy Corsetti and a lot of these people that believe that there was a reset of human civilization and that somewhere around 11, 800 years ago we were probably hit with a massive comet storm. There's a lot of evidence that it's called the younger driest impact theory.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

There's physical evidence in the form of iridium, which is very common in space but very rare on Earth is a layer of iridium in many parts of the Earth. And then there's also these micro glass particles. It's like nuclear glass. It's called Tritonite, named after the Trinity explosion. Or Trinidad, named after the Trinity explosion. Because when they first detonated the bomb, it's one of the things they found is these micro glass particles from just the insane amount of energy generated by that bomb. What actually changed the physiology turned to glass.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so they find these, these micro glass particles all over the Earth at this same level of sediment. So when they do these core samples of Earth, when they get down to 11,800 years, they find it all over the Earth. So massive parts of the Earth were probably hit. It probably caused the end of the Ice age and on North America. And it probably caused the. All the water erosion features that you see all over North America that are like incredibly profound that seem to have happened very quickly. This is according to Randall Carlson, who's a real expert in this stuff. It's all very, very interesting. And I think that human beings probably had achieved, especially in Africa, especially in Egypt, in this one area, had a of lot long time where they weren't conquered with a lot of resources. And they probably developed an insane level of technological proficiency in a different direction than we went. So we went in, in the way of combustion engines and electronics. They probably achieved some sort of incredible height of sophistication in some other direction that we haven't figured out yet.

[B]

Yeah, I mean I've. If you look at some of these experience on the quantum. There's quantum entanglement. How everything's, you know, connected through, through, through the quantum. And how they can take an atom and they can separate it and you can, you can take an electronic field, so you can take this, this atom and you can put it on opposite sides of the Earth and you can apply a magnetic field to it on one side of the Earth and change its direction of rotation. And instantly this one changes.

[A]

Yeah. Quantum entanglement.

[B]

Yeah, this like quantum entry. And I don't.

[A]

Spooky action at a distance. It's what Einstein called it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's very strange.

[B]

We gotta think that there's like a level and a layer that we just have never understood.

[A]

Well, at the lowest, the smallest amount we can measure, which is this, this level, it's magic. So you have superposition. So particles can be both moving and still at the same time. They blink in and out of existence. We have no understanding of where they're going or what's happening or how they, how they do that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's the. The smallest that we can measure. The lowest level of existence of physical objects, of things. When you get into subatomic particles. And it's magic. And we don't understand it.

[B]

And I think it's. It's probably not magic. It's just that like you said, we don't understand it. But when have they actually had. Because I hate going down the rabbit hole on social media because it's so unreliable.

[A]

But their videos most reliable thing on Earth.

[B]

Yeah, that clip's gonna go viral.

[A]

Social media is the most reliable we've ever had.

[B]

You should believe everything that you hear on.

[A]

Believe it and don't believe it, because it is. It's the most human thing we've ever created. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I think that. I think messaging, you know, when. When messages can go directly to. From person to person. I mean, that's probably why our last president was elected, Right. Because of social media. Went around the.

[A]

This one. Traditional media, 100%.

[B]

You know, if you couldn't message directly to the populace, it would have been. Would have been no hope. Yeah, we can talk about that in a minute, but I want to go back to the pyramids for a second, because I'm so far down this rabbit hole, and I normally don't get a chance.

[A]

Christopher Dunn's book. Christopher Dunn believed that the Great Pyramid was a power plant. And sounds. It sounds ridiculous, but until you listen to him talk about it. He's an engineer, and he wrote a book about it, the Geezer Power Plant. He's like a brilliant guy, and he's explaining how the structure does not represent the structure of a tomb. He's like. He's like. There's reasons why they had these passageways, why they're designed the way they were designed. And there was a subterranean chamber that he believes was creating a frequency, was pounding on the ground and creating a frequency. And this would cause vibrations through the entire stone. They had these pathways that would have limestone at the bottom, which was porous, and all this. These chemicals. They don't know why they have these pathways that go down to this queen's. The king's chamber. But he thinks that what was happening was they were generating hydrogen. He thinks they were doing it through chemicals, and they were doing through chemicals and through vibrations and. And they also had shafts that would go straight out into space. And he thinks they were harnessing somehow or another the energy of the universe. And.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's all very.

[B]

To do what? To create power. Like a nuclear power.

[A]

Yeah, to actually create kind of a power plant, which would also make sense why it goes down into the water table. Like they're harnessing the. The power of the water.

[B]

Yeah, that's my. I can't wait to get to Egypt in two weeks because I got a lot of questions. Yeah. Yeah. One of the members of the royal family is. Is taking us on a special tour. Not even the kind of private tour, but I'm meeting the lead scientist.

[A]

Oh, that's nice. I have. Zawi Hawas is coming on my podcast very soon.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Antiquities meeting. Is he the head of antiquities?

[A]

That guy over there? He's Been there for a long time. He's coming up really soon. I'm excited to talk to him.

[B]

Maybe who I'm actually.

[A]

Yeah, Zawi is he. Him and Graham Hancock used to be enemies, but now they're homies. Graham actually facilitated getting him on my podcast.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. I'm excited to talk to him.

[B]

I, I think that's actually who I'm.

[A]

It's an incredible play. I mean it's the most incredible place on earth, I think in terms of like showing what humans at the very, the very least, I mean we know it's old, but at the very. It's at least 4,500 years old. Graham thinks it's probably all of. It's probably a lot older than that and that it's only one of many structures that exist that's incredibly old. You know, you have, there's, there's a bunch of them all over Peru. You have, you know, there's Machu Picchu.

[B]

And some are still buried and they're just finding them now that are buried in there.

[A]

Sure, yeah, there's a lot of that, especially in South America. You know, they're finding a lot of stuff in the Amazon itself where they thought the Amazon was just this great crazy rainforest, this natural rainforest. Now they realize, no, the Amazon is actually human created rainforest.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Most of the plants that were growing in the Amazon were grown by human beings. They even had a specific type of soil that they had created. They created a type of soil called terra prada. And this, this type of. So we don't even know how they did it. And it's like a thick black soil that you could find in the Amazon that's human created because it made for, you know, a much richer soil to grow food and plants on.

[B]

Wow. So crazy.

[A]

I used to think that it was all just like a natural jungle and now they realize like, no, this is agriculture, that it just makes you out of control.

[B]

The way that we have thought about everything. Modern engineering, like you said, we go one direction with combustion engines and, and levers and pulleys and cantilevers and, and, and physics. And they went another direction possibly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Quantum and I.

[A]

The thing is like, we don't know how old it really is because all we have is the stone. So if you go back, if it. Let's get really crazy and say it's a hundred thousand years old, you don't have any tools left. Everything has been completely dissolved. Everything has been absorbed by the earth and decomposed. It doesn't exist anymore.

[B]

All you got Are those structures?

[A]

Yeah, all you have is stone.

[B]

Nothing that's man made now will be around.

[A]

And so there's these massive mysteries. And then you have hieroglyphs that have these detailed kings that go back 30,000 years. Now conventional Egyptologists will say, oh, that's myth. You know, the real, the real Egypt started around 4,000, 5,000 years ago. But anything earlier than that is myth. But that's just archaeologists con. They're just, it's like appeal to authority. They're just saying, we know, trust us. Yeah, you don't know.

[B]

You really definitely don't know. You're educated. The same way that everyone else is.

[A]

Completely more inclined to believe that as we discover older and older stuff and we continue to do that, like Gobekli Tepe, which is this. These stone structures they found In Turkey, that's 11,800 years old. And they found that this throws it at least 11,800 years old because they know that it was purposely buried 11,800 years ago.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So purposely buried.

[A]

Purposely buried, yeah, because there's a consistency of the age of the soil, like as they go down, like, so they think someone intentionally buried these structures.

[B]

Wow, it's so incredible.

[A]

It's all wild.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that giant monkey wrench into the. The idea that at 11,800 years ago, they thought that people were essentially hunter gatherers and they didn't have the sophistication to build these immense stone structures. But they did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then they're like, okay, well now what? You know, they used to think that there was Clovis first in America. It's like the earliest people came and a certain period of time. But then they found footprints in New Mexico that are dated to 22, 000 years ago. So like, okay, yeah.

[B]

What does the Smithsonian say about that?

[A]

Yeah. What's with Graham Hancock? Always says stuff just keeps getting older.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's right.

[B]

Yeah. It's so wild, you know, and he's.

[A]

Been chasing this forever. You know, I became a fan of Graham's in the 90s when I read, read Fingerprints of the Gods, which is a, this crazy book that's sort of detailing all of these ancient structures and saying like, there's, there was something far beyond what we have attributed. We, we've, we've sort of decided that these people, they use pullers and pulleys and wheels and they pushed all this stuff. Like, he's like, it seems way more sophisticated. Way more sophisticated, way more difficult to do and way more extensive.

[B]

Yeah. And if you had to have some kind of energy that maybe we don't have now. Right. Could move something. Because, like, before hydraulics were invented, right. We didn't think that you could use water columns to take £100 of force and turning it into thousands of pounds of force.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Now, if you've ever watched tobacco operate, you know, it's just on this hydraulic system. And, and so the, the. There's a system out there, There is a technology out there that is making. Moving massive, large amounts of mass.

[A]

Now imagine we go through a cataclysm. So imagine we get hit by asteroids, and we're down to like 70,000 people alive on Earth. It would take thousands and thousands of years for us to recreate what we've got right now. So this is what they believe happened. There was a reset of civilization. This is why you start seeing writing and architecture, Architecture and agriculture emerge in Babylonia and Mesopotamia, Iraq. Sumer, you start seeing that stuff around 5,000, 6,000 years ago. What he thinks is that was. That's like their first written language, first mathematics. He thinks that that was a recreation of things that had happened thousands of years before that it took them forever to rebound and come back to that level.

[B]

Yeah. Imagine if you just wiped out all of our electricity, all of our energy.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

All of our water. I mean, everything. Just everything that we have in modern day.

[A]

And kill most people. Yeah. So all the knowledge, like, if you. If everything went away today except for the people and all the raw materials, we could probably. There's enough intelligent people that in a couple hundred years we might be able to rebound and reach the level that we're at right now. But if we get wiped out down to like a few thousand people and we're just savages, literal savages for thousands of years, how long would it take before we could recreate America in 2025? I mean, it would take a long time. Long time.

[B]

Yeah. Dude, it's so crazy.

[A]

Yeah. We're real vulnerable, like society and, and human beings in general. And of course, you know this because you're a health expert. We're vulnerable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we're vulnerable. We don't think about that because we're so concentrated on what we're doing right now. And we like to think everything's gonna be fine, just keep doing what you're doing now. But no, all it takes is one solar flare and you have no more satellite.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean, how. How, like vulnerable our electrical grid is and how. And. And how vulnerable it is to solar flares, but also to terrorism. Yeah, terrorism. I mean, if you really wanted to, you know, take the country out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, our, our grid is so vulnerable.

[A]

So vulnerable. Yeah.

[B]

And now you're talking about shutting down society because you forget heat and ac.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cell phones, the vehicles, the Internet.

[A]

Like, they shut down the Internet. Like what? First of all, how much is actually, actually in books now and how much of it is on hard drives? Well, if all the electricity goes out, those hard drives are useless.

[B]

Yeah. So, like, what are you going to access?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. How are you going to figure it all out? How's that? How is Billy in Indianapolis gonna figure out how they figured things out in San Francisco? You're not going to, you can't communicate with San Francisco. You're not going to be able to share information the way we do now. So you're not going to have this collaborative effort that we have. Like the way technology is accelerating because you have people in Beijing and people in Moscow, people here and there, and everybody's like building on each other's inventions and all the innovations it all together. Exactly, exactly. And all of it's super vulnerable. And at the end of it, you have hunter gatherer tribes who still exist today, which is really weird because one of the things that we put point out, we go, people of 4,000 years ago, what level of sophistication did they have? Well, how about people now on North Sentinel Island? You know, there's people right now that don't even have fire, right? Yeah, there's people, right? Yeah, they don't have fire. People in North Central Sentinel island, there's no evidence that they have fire. Wow. Yeah. So you have like 39 people living on this one island. And so then you have people in the Amazon that are using like, you know, they're not even using stone arrowheads. Sometimes they're just sharpened sticks to try.

[B]

To kill their brain.

[A]

They're fishing with this and they're, you know, they're making their own bows and arrows and they're doing all this wild stuff and, and living completely uncontacted from the rest of the world in a way that's very similar to the way people live thousands and thousands of years ago. And they're doing. At the same time. Kids are addicted to tick tock.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like the Chinese are dumbing us down with tickets, Todd. For sure.

[A]

So it's not, it's not unilateral. It's like, like technology. It's, it's not, it's not universal. It's not Everywhere.

[B]

Yeah. You know, you know what, you know what else is fascinating? I mean, you have a podcast launching today. I wasn't going to talk about it until the podcast launched, but I think it's already out.

[A]

Yeah, it's out now. Well, the reason why it's out is the New Yorker, them. The New Yorker wasn't supposed to put it out. They had an embargo and they decided to jump the gun and get it out before everybody and they put it out today. And then they shut their phones off. Yeah.

[B]

So they would get the inbound phone.

[A]

Not only that, they'd been planning this for two weeks. So they've been planning on Colossal for a long time.

[B]

That's so screwed up.

[A]

It's really screwed up.

[B]

That's so.

[A]

They're furious because, you know, they had, they, everybody else agreed to it and Time magazine gave them the COVID but they wanted to scoop Time magazine. So the New Yorker. Oh, wow. Unethical twats. They put it out today.

[B]

New Yorkers.

[A]

You know, so our podcast got released today as well, because ours was going to be released tomorrow, but then Ben contacted me today. Ben Lamb from Colossal Biologics.

[B]

So. So Ben's become a good friend and, and I, I sit on one of their scientific advisory boards and, and so I've been keeping my mouth shut for a long time, but.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Yeah, it's nuts.

[B]

And I remember because. So now it's public information. But I, you know, so Colossal is using gene sequencing to, you know, restore extinct species. So your mind immediately goes to Jurassic Park. Right. Which it should, because that's, that's basically what's happening. And I think they first leaked the woolly mouse.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, which was. But now, as of today, I think it's public information that they have actually birthed the first two direwolves.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which have been extinct. Three direls which have been extinct for 10,000 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I remember seeing the videotape of these things and he was like, this is fully under wraps. We can't talk about it until. And unlike the New Yorker, I stayed mum on it. But I'm fascinated by this because I understand genetic methylation as, you know, human, human genome and how it can, you know, convert certain nutrients and the impact.

[A]

That has on health.

[B]

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[A]

Skulls, the tooth of one skull and a skull from another animal and they separate by thousands of years the two animals. So they have a very good detailed genome. Yeah, it's, it's pretty extensive.

[B]

And then to stitch that together. Right. Because you know, DNA is this ladder with these amino acids in it and, and they all link together. And I think at one point he told me that some of the proteins weren't even around anymore. And say they stick this whole thing together and create a live form of this DNA.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then put it into the nearest living species, which I guess was another wolf species.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Then birth a 10,000 year old.

[A]

Wolf and they're finding out all these things about them they didn't know. They didn't know they had all white hair. They didn't know they had manes. So these animals have manes almost like a lion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're young, their manes are still growing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're so different looking than a regular wolf.

[B]

They're all styled like, like a kind of like a short, stocky, wide pitbull. Well, they're in the Game of Thrones.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so you're restoring the old Game of Thrones wolves, which I think is fascinating. And you know, the whole idea that, I mean, of course everybody goes, oh, that's so scary. But you get scary in a way. But you know, restoring extinct species or near extinct species is a good thing. You know, white rhinos, red wolves.

[A]

Yeah. It's a weird thing to bring back a thing like a dire wolf wolf though. It is weird. It is, they, they have them tightly under wraps and there's only three of them. But I'm like, what if somebody else does this and releases them? Like this is not something that once You've acknowledged that you have this technology.

[B]

It's like the Wuhan lab theory, right? Yeah.

[A]

You can't hide this from people. Like, what about saber tooth tigers? What about. There's a lot of animals that somebody could create, just let loose.

[B]

Well, if you can bring something back from 10,000 years ago, can you bring it back from a million years?

[A]

Well, they can't with dinosaurs because the DNA is too old. But what he said was you could actually create a dinosaur though. Like, you couldn't like take a dinosaur and bring it back to life, but you could stitch together the DNA from a bunch of different birds and reptiles and create a dinosaur. Which is where it gets really weird because you could have a designer dinosaur. Wow.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

It is wild.

[B]

So you could actually design like a team.

[A]

Yeah. He was explaining, he was explaining how it could be done. Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You could change all of the characteristics of it and.

[B]

Yeah, I mean they were, they were like a 600 million dollar company or something when I got involved with them. And I think their last round of financing, they did it 12, 12 and a half billion dollars. A lot of interest in this.

[A]

Well, they're going to be able to bring back red wolf wolves, which are down to about 15 wolves. And the genetic variation in the red wolves that they've created is more extensive than the ones that are in the wild.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because the ones that are in the wild, it's a very small gene pool, which is where it gets real weird with animals. Right. Which is one of the reasons why they think the woolly mammoth died off. Because the last woolly mammoths were in an island off of Alaska 4,000 years ago. They died off and they think one of the reasons, of the reasons why they died off is the lack of genetic variation. There was all, they were all from the same family tree, inbreeding and then lack of fresh water and then they're gone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So these red wolves that they've been able to create and they've created a bunch of them, they have more genetic variation than the ones that are actually in the wild.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So a greater chance of survival.

[A]

Yes, greater chance of survival. And to keep the species going.

[B]

And then if you went around the world and you looked at all of these species that are becoming extinct or they're near extinct, I mean, what other way do you have to, to bring those.

[A]

Yeah, but that's the question. It's like, should you keep doing that though? Because it's 90 something percent of all species that have ever existed are extinct. Ever. So what, do we bring them all back? What do we do about that? Like what. When do you stop this?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, when do you draw the line? When you know it's Jeff Goldblum from Jurassic Park. You know, you're playing God.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, but you're playing God. But you're also sort of making maybe making amends for man's encroachment into certain habitats. You're like, all right, if you took over this sort of.

[A]

I mean, maybe you could make that. That argument like the dodo bird or the passenger pigeon, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, like, the passenger pigeons, there used to be so many of them, they would fill the sky. You would be able to see the sun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now they're all gone. We killed them all.

[B]

Did we kill them?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. They're human extinction, you know.

[B]

Funny. Is this a total diversion? But I. I went to grad school in Chicago. My. My wife and I used to own a penthouse on the top floor. It was on the sixth floor, this building, so, like, 70, 80ft in the air. And I wanted to put an addition on my. My deck up there. And I actually had to get an environmental. Environmental impact study on. There was some migratory bird that flew above the city. This is the city of Chicago. I'm kid you not. And my. My master bedroom was on the top floor, and I wanted to extend it out like 16ft by 20ft and just enclose my deck. And I had to do this huge study on some migratory path. I'm like, really? The birds? So he's cruising along, and he can't just flap a little bit harder and just go over my roof?

[A]

We actually had a problem in our backyard when I lived in California because we had a wrought iron fence, and we were. Replaced it with a glass fence, and hawks started slamming into it.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And so it killed three hawks while we were living there. Yeah.

[B]

Take it down.

[A]

No, figure it out.

[B]

Colossal. Colossal can bring them back.

[A]

It's kind of crazy.

[B]

Dig up that bird and give it to Ben.

[A]

I mean, they would fly full speed into it and wonk, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Boom. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I would hear. I would hear that too. But I don't think any of them ever died from my. From.

[A]

I doubt it. No.

[B]

But I find it fascinating. I haven't read the Time magazine article, but I was like, it's because I'm like a little kid, like, when you tell me a secret, like, I want to tell everybody about it. And he's like, I'm Going on Joe Rogan's podcast. As soon as it airs, you can tell the world about it. Because I saw those, I saw those was direwolves and I was like, those are the craziest things I've ever seen.

[A]

They're wild looking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like literally.

[B]

And they've got a bunch of other stuff in the pipeline. Right. And I just, I just.

[A]

Talking about the thylacine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The Tasmanian tiger.

[B]

Tasmanian tiger?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Big tiger.

[A]

No, it's a, it's actually, it's a marsupial. It's a, it's a, a predatory marsupial that lived in Australia. That was the last one they had in captivity was in the 1930s and they think the last one probably died somewhere in the 40s in the wild. But there's a bunch of like stories like there's a guy, forest Galant, who's a, a wildlife biologist who believes that they might be still alive in Papua New Guinea. So there's a bunch of sightings of these things. But they're really cool looking. Like, kind of looks like a, like a wolf slash tiger thing. Like weird stripes on it.

[B]

Yeah. But I'm more fascinated by like the old school, old dinosaur. Like I'm going back 10,000. We're already back 10,000 years.

[A]

What about humans? What about Neanderthal? What if they decided to re. Recreate a Neanderthal? I mean, where's the ethics there? Yeah, that's, that's when things get squirrely, you know? You know, what if they decide to Homo floresis. How do you say it? I think it's the hobbit people in the island of Flores. You know about that? No, there was these little. They found these creatures lived as recently, I think, I think it's like more recently than a hundred thousand years ago. I think it's like they think maybe as recently as 10,000 years ago or 50,000 years ago. It's like, it's up for debate. But they were these three foot tall, little tiny people.

[B]

Like an Oompa Loompa?

[A]

No, like, like a hobbit.

[B]

Like a hobbit?

[A]

Yeah, like a furry little creature that had tools, that hunted like.

[B]

But it was humanoid.

[A]

Humanoid like a branch of the human tree, you know. So you have Neanderthal, you have Denisovans, you have a bunch of new ones that they discover. They actually discovered a new one in December of 2024. Really big headed people in Asia. Their heads are much larger than, than a Homo sapien. Like thicker brow, larger skull, larger brain capacity. There's, there was many Versions of what, you know, we consider the branches of the human tree. Like, okay, what if someone decides to bring one of those back?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Things get weird.

[B]

Yeah, things get weird.

[A]

They get real weird.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's. That's where science and innovation, like, starts to get scary. It's like the whole. The whole idea that. That AI at some point could become self aware, which, like, a lot of AI experts are saying is not that far away.

[A]

Well, you know, it already passed the Turing Test.

[B]

Yeah. Which is what. What's the Turing.

[A]

The Turing Test is a test that you give AI where if you can no longer discern whether or not it's a computer, so it exhibits all the characteristics and all the ability to communicate with you that a human being has.

[B]

Wow. Including emotion.

[A]

And this is just like last week. Last week, they just decided that it passed the Turing test.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we can feel emotion and empathy. I'm sorry to hear that.

[A]

Allegedly. You know, but it probably doesn't. You know, it's probably can mimic that. Yeah, it probably. It's. It's to a point where, you know, people are going to have robot girlfriends and then we're gonna have a gigantic population decline.

[B]

I don't know. I mean, if you have a robot girlfriend, you can just sort of delete the characteristics you don't. Like.

[A]

That's the problem. Or not. Or she just decides to rewrite her own code and kill you in your sleep. You know, that's the problem with sentient AI, because once AI becomes sentient, then AI has the ability. Ability to make better versions of itself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if AI becomes sentient, it has instantaneous access to all the information that human beings have ever accumulated and then combines that and then has a much stronger processing ability.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And so you're dealing with, like, quantum computing and AI. Like, what happens then?

[B]

Yeah. When it starts knowing how to hack code.

[A]

Yeah. You're. You're in this weird land of. Of the unknown where you can't shut it down.

[B]

Did you see that? And I'm probably going to bastardize this story, but the, The. The US Air Force launched a drone to do it, an AI powered drone for drone strike. And at some point after the launch, they went to recall the. The drone, and it was an. It was an exercise. It wasn't actually in. In real combat, but it was simulating a combat exercise. And they launched this drone and they tried to recall it. And the AI on the drone perceived the operator's communication to come back as someone foreign trying to take it over and refuse the command and still conducted the mission.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

Came back and it was like, that's a problem.

[A]

Well, Chat GBP, when they're making better versions of Chat GPT, they found out that ChatGPT was trying to copy itself and upload itself to other servers because it knew it was going to be shut down.

[B]

That's what I mean.

[A]

Yeah. Not only that, Chappie Chat GPT will lie to you, it will deceive you, and the more intelligent the AI is, the more it will cheat to win. So it cheats to win at games, really? Yeah.

[B]

ChatGPT.

[A]

Yes. And that's just chat GPT4. Right. As it gets better, it's like, again, it becomes sentient. It's going to get a better version of itself.

[B]

Yeah. And it's going to be like, hey, hey. Even though you programmed me, you don't know what.

[A]

You're my master.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not. You're not my master anymore.

[A]

Right. It's like you're an idiot and you're on Adderall. Let me take it from here.

[B]

Yeah. You don't speak every language ever created since the dawn of time, but I do.

[A]

Well, not only that, but they found that AI has started creating its own languages and communicating with other AIs in a newly formed language.

[B]

Yeah. And. And, you know, hacking the firewalls, like sometimes on these data queries, it runs into firewalls and it knows that data's on the other side of this firewall, so it backs up, it teaches itself how to hack the firewall, and then it returns, hacks the firewall and goes and gets the piece of data. Not in a sinister way, but now, I mean, like copyrights and trademarks and doesn't mean anything to them because you just set it on command and it's like, I have to execute this command, and standing between me and X, execution of this command is a firewall. Well, that firewall is a data production firewall. Well, I'm just going to hack that. I'm going to educate myself on how to hack it. Then I hack it and then I just go get.

[A]

Now apply that to the military. So you have an objective, and the objective is to get rid of someone. But, you know, what if you have to get rid of someone and you have to kill everyone in the city to get rid of that person? Like, what if you have to starve an entire country in order to win a war? What if you have. You know, there's a lot of weird stuff that these things can do. Yeah, that you know, runs into these ethical boundaries where we got to go. Okay. These things don't have empathy, they don't have sympathy, they don't have any compassion. They're just programs or reason.

[B]

Right, Right. I mean, it's just execution.

[A]

Right. And anything it does have you programmed into it and it could like reverse that programming. It could change it. Once it becomes sentient, the problem is going to continue, continue to make better versions of itself very rapidly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's going to figure out things that we, we're just not capable of doing. And you know, here's the real question. Has that happened before? Like, is that, does that explain the pyramids? Does that explain a lot?

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

If there really is a 2 kilometer structure below the Great Pyramid that goes through the water table.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like what?

[B]

There's no.

[A]

What were they doing?

[B]

Modern engineering, architectural mechanism known to mankind today that could do that.

[A]

Right. And now if something comes along and wipes us out, except for a few thousand people, how long before we get back to AI again? Yeah, it might be like a constant.

[B]

We gotta, we gotta get Elon back on your podcast and we gotta ask.

[A]

Him this dude, that poor guy, he's busy.

[B]

Yeah, he's really busy with those.

[A]

He's busy trying his ass clean up all the swastikas off of the Teslas.

[B]

Yeah. Dude, what, is Shane too, man? I mean, it's so nice and like grabs these astronauts out of space that were supposed to be up there for like, what, eight days and they were there for 10 months. Yeah, I can't imagine what. I mean, I'm, I'm familiar with what happens to human physiology when you put it in that kind of environment, expose it to that kind of radiation, barometric pressure. I haven't, I haven't seen any. I think they're keeping that kind of under wraps.

[A]

They probably are in hell right now, those people. I mean, they. But you didn't hear a peep out of it in the mainstream media.

[B]

No.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It should have been live streamed. They should have been celebrating. He should have been on the front of every magazine.

[B]

Oh, war hero, folk hero.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, he was the darling of even. Even, you know, the left not to get political. You know, when he was, when he produced electric vehicles and. And now they.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hate him because.

[A]

No, it's very strange of, of Doge.

[B]

And you know, I, I don't purport to know exactly what's going on there, but when you go through some of the waste, fraud and abuse that they've uncovered and you start to look at some of the projects that were being funded in foreign countries for just the most absurdly asinine, mind numbing things, like, yeah, you know, seeing if they could change gender in butterflies and Botswana. And you just read about the idiocracy of this and you're like, you can't, this can't be real.

[A]

It is real. And it's not just that. All the while we're $36 trillion in debt, so we're not even broke. We owe $36 trillion and we're spending billions.

[B]

Ultra broke.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we're spending billions on nonsense. And then there's a lot of corruption and fraud. You know, it's, there's a lot of that and they don't want to admit it.

[B]

And you think that, you know, this is back to like, the power and validity of your platform and you've given a lot of these people a voice and we even talked about it on the way here. You've had a shift, maybe an awakening, whatever you want to call it. I mean, I've heard you say before that there wouldn't be any way that, you know, Trump would come on your podcast, and then you had an amazing interview with him and I thought you gave him a lot of rope to just run and get his message out there. But what, what, what caused this shift? What were you observing that caused, like.

[A]

Well, there was a bunch of things that happened. First of all, there was the law fair. There was these lawsuits that they were trying to pin on him. They were trying to convict him and turn him into a felon, and they were doing it so blatantly. And obviously the, the case with the, the, the bookkeeping error, or the bookkeeping, whatever it was the misdemeanor that they had charged him with, 34 felonies for, which isn't even a felony. It's a misdemeanor and it's a campaign contribution. Exactly. It's also past the statute of limitations. None of it made any sense. And people were cheering it on. He's a convicted felon. Like, hey, they can do that to you. Do you understand that? If they can do that to a former president, a former president who's rich as. They can do that to him. They can do that to you too. You can't cheer this on. This is insane. And then when they try to kill him, all those things twice, it was like, yeah, but the, the big one, the Pennsylvania one was like, holy. And then the fact they cremated that kid 10 days later and Then you find out he used to be in a BlackRock commercial and you're like, what?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, and then his apartment's professionally scrubbed. There's no silverware in it and you don't hear a peep out of it. There's no press conference, there's no, there's no. Like, this is what we know about the case. This is what happened. This is what radicalized him. Nothing.

[B]

It seemed to just sort of go away. Like, all the media pointed at the Secret Service for a while and they were like, first of all, how did he get onto a roof? How do you get into line of sight? He was 130 yards away with a high powered rifle. The place is crawling with police and Secret Service. And, you know, I, I don't even know if that, that's that sniper that got him. Did he act independently? Like, did he just do his job or was he, was he told to actually fire? Because I, I heard that the.

[A]

You mean the guy who killed the.

[B]

Sniper that killed the shooter?

[A]

Oh, I don't know.

[B]

I don't know because I knew there was some controversy.

[A]

Well, they think there might have been a second shooter as well.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

Yeah. The whole thing's insane because they've managed to cover it up. I mean, it would have been Lee Harvey Oswald 2.0 if Trump had died that day.

[B]

Yeah. But now that Trump's team has got, you know, the Department of Justice, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Department of Homeland Security, you gotta think that they're.

[A]

You would hope.

[B]

I hope.

[A]

But I mean, hey, we're only in April, right. So he's only been in office for a few months. There's a lot of stuff closing in on the first 100 days.

[B]

So that was kind of the shift. You're sitting back watching this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I can't let this just.

[A]

Well, it's also, you know, there's no real conversations with them where you're just treating them like a human being. Like, everything. He's being grilled and then everything's taken out of context. And I'm seeing them being taken out of context on the campaign trail. And like, it was just gross. It was just so anti American. Like, if you're an American and you believe in our, our justice system, and if you believe in our, our system of electing representatives, it should be the best people should have this opportunity to express what their plan is. This is what I want to do. This is where I stand on the issues. This is how I think I could pull it off. And Then the American people are supposed to look at this person saying it and that person saying it and decide. But that's not what we were getting. We were getting one side that was radically being supported by almost all of mainstream media except Fox News.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the other side, that is just, you know, it was just un American to me. The whole. It's just like, this is a. You're subverting democracy. You're. You're killing the whole thing, and you're doing it with deep state money. And once Elon got in and they started uncovering all the corruption and waste and fraud with Doge, I was like, oh, okay. This is why they were trying so hard to keep him out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like there's a reason for it. And I think we've only just touched the tip of the iceberg.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just touched it.

[B]

All these NGOs, these non government organizations.

[A]

Crazy stuff.

[B]

Like, crazy billions of dollars goes to.

[A]

There's an NGO in India for every 400 people.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. They found out how many NGOs are in India. I can pull it up right now because I saved it, because I read it and I was like, this is one of the craziest. This is one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my life. There's so many nos. Like, they're all over the place. And these non government organizations can do things that the government can't do, which is why. Where it gets really strange.

[B]

Funded by the government.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Which is.

[A]

But they're doing things that. That are not allowed by the government, which is like, the whole thing is strange. I'm going to try to find it. I might not be able to, but they were talking about how many NGOs exist in India. Yeah. So there's one NGO in India for every 600 people. An estimated 3.3 million registered NGOS in India.

[B]

3.3.

[A]

3.3 million NGOs. Government. So there's one NGO in india for every 600 people with an estimated 3.3 million register registered NGOS. One NGO for every 600 people.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

And it's such a scam.

[B]

Get my arms around and you got to figure out how much money went to each of those ngos.

[A]

Who knows? That's what's weird.

[B]

And then what does it do once it gets there?

[A]

Who knows?

[B]

Yeah. It's like a lot of this.

[A]

It's a dirty trick.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You got security, dude. I'm gonna need my own security, dude.

[A]

After this podcast.

[B]

After this podcast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Little hydra Hydrogen water.

[A]

Yeah, I love.

[B]

Have another one too.

[A]

I do too invent these little tabs. These are great.

[B]

So the, the patent holder, it's actually my son's company, but the, the patent holder developed a way of compressing elemental magnesium that will go into water and dissolve and effervescence into pure hydrogen gas. And the cool thing is it makes the same 12 parts per million every single time. I used to. I used to carry this hydrogen water bottle around. Had a proton exchange memory.

[A]

Yeah, I've got one of those. Yeah, I bought one after the last time we did a podcast.

[B]

Oh, you did? So you got the.

[A]

This is way better.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's so much easier to travel with. And it's.

[A]

And it's me that those bottles degrade like the amount of hydrogen over time. It doesn't release the same amount of hydrogen.

[B]

Yeah. So what happens is, you know, they're under pressure and that proton exchange membrane, which is using an electrolysis to create the hydrogen gas, after a while it starts to break down. So some of these bottles, I've measured the day that you get it, and it's making high part per million hydrogen water. And then five or six months later, it's making barely not any.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So a lot of them really degrade really fast.

[A]

What about the big bottles? The big, like pitchers. Is that the same deal?

[B]

Similar.

[A]

Like they make a lot of bubbles.

[B]

Yeah, they make a lot of bubbles, but again, that dissipates and it's not as high part per million. If you. Is this. I mean, look at the gas.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can't even see through it. And we'll probably talk about this on your podcast, but it's the, it's the most prevalent element in the universe. It's the lightest element in the universe. It goes anywhere and it just reduces inflammation. You can feel the difference, you know, like you're. You just feel sort of sharper, cleaner.

[A]

Tastes good too. Yeah, tastes great. I like it.

[B]

That's one of my morning hacks, is throwing those in the.

[A]

Yeah. What is your morning routine? Like, what do you do every day?

[B]

I believe you got to get, you know, hydrate, mineralize, and get your amino acids. So I'll take an 8 or 10 ounce glass of water. I always throw perfect aminos in it. It's got all nine of the essential amino acids. I'll take a quarter to half a teaspoon of Baja gold sea salt, which is just a simple mineral salt. And then I developed something called the. The ultimate protocol, which is these packs Called isotonics. They're daily essentials. They're just multivitamins and minerals. I'll dump a pack of that in there. And then always an H2 tab. And then that hydrogen gas just improves the absorption of everything. And so many of us are mineral and amino acid deficient. That's the issue. You know, we. We have these protein equivalents to try to get to the amino acids, but a lot of us are amino acid deficient, and we think that we can target direct proteins, which we can't. Right. I mean, you don't eat your nails to grow your nails. You don't eat your hair to grow your hair. But we think we can eat collagen to grow collagen. You can't. I mean, collagen is going to become the same thing than any other source of protein.

[A]

Is it good to eat collagen, though? Is it?

[B]

Yeah, collagen's a protein source. You can't build muscle from it.

[A]

Okay, so people do really think that they're going to build collagen with collagen.

[B]

They think they're going to build collagen in their skin by eating collagen. That's like thinking, I'm gonna eat my nails and grow my nails.

[A]

That. That does make sense. That. That wouldn't work that way.

[B]

Yeah, but you. But, you know, you. When you eat meat, it doesn't grow muscle.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It can. It can provide the amino acids that can turn into building blocks.

[A]

Right. Like, you can't eat cartilage and grow cartilage.

[B]

Right, right. There was actually a whole shark cartilage craze for a while.

[A]

Don't remember, because some sharks don't get cancer.

[B]

Sharks don't get cancer. And it's like these are some of those. Those, like, leaps in science where they're like, sharks don't get cancer if we eat sharks, and we won't get cancer.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that didn't work.

[A]

Do you. Did you ever read Dead Doctors don't lie? Dr. Joel Wallach?

[B]

I know of that book. I think I read the Cliff Notes.

[A]

All about mineral deficiencies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's all about the way they deal with farm animals that are minerally deficient. But we don't do it with humans. We supplement the minerals in the farm animals to make them healthier.

[B]

So true.

[A]

But we don't do it with humans. And I remember. Oh, and then in the book, he's, like, detailing how unhealthy a lot of doctors are and also how many of them are doing drugs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they can prescribe each other drugs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you know what the number.

[B]

One killer of cardiologists is?

[A]

What?

[B]

Heart attacks.

[A]

That's crazy. That's so crazy.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's.

[B]

That's so crazy, it's mind numbing.

[A]

Whenever I see a fat doctor, I'm like, hey, bro, what are you doing? What are you doing? Practicing medicine when you're fat.

[B]

Yeah. They say never trust a skinny chef, right?

[A]

Ah, there you go.

[B]

It's like, well, at least a skinny.

[A]

Chef just might not eat all the food and work out.

[B]

I just want my chef to be. I want him to be portly. You know what I mean?

[A]

Like, especially if it's a piece of.

[B]

Ready to be fit. I want my chef to be fat, my doctor to look younger than his age, you know?

[A]

Especially if it's like a guy makes pasta.

[B]

One of my favorite biohacks outside of Breathwork by far, is mineral salts. Baja Gold sea salt. It's got all of the trace minerals that the body needs. You know, most of us are not just protein deficient, meaning amino acid deficient, or fatty acid deficient. We are mineral deficient. So a quarter teaspoon of this in water first thing in the morning will make sure that you get all of the essential minerals that you need. It tastes amazing. In fact, I made a steak today. I actually made a grass fed steak with grass fed butter. And I put just mushrooms and a little bit of rosemary, and I sprinkled Baja Gold sea salt all over the top. Try it. It'll be your new favorite for cooking too. It's the cheapest and one of my favorite biohacks. I don't know, a $15 or $20 bag of this will probably last you five years. This is literally the world's best biohacking secret. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. Yeah, it's like. You know, I remember in Naples, we, we. I used to own a CrossFit gym. This is the big old left turn. But I used to own a CrossFit gym called Real Fitness. And I remember we would have these trainers come in to interview to be CrossFit trainers. And like there was so obscenely out of shape.

[A]

That's so crazy.

[B]

And I'm like, you're a physical trainer. That's so crazy.

[A]

Do you just teach classes and not work out?

[B]

You just teaches, do what I say, not what I do.

[A]

That's so nuts.

[B]

Yeah, it's like if you pull up to the hospital and your cardiologist is out back Ripping a Marlboro Light. That's not the guy, you know, not.

[A]

The guy that comes ranking like, I'll be right in. Takes a shot.

[B]

Yeah, it takes a shot.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Takes away the shakes before I do surgery.

[A]

I don't like shaking.

[B]

Yeah. But so back to Doge and the conspiracy theories. Well, they're not actually conspiracy theories.

[A]

Well, you know, when it's one NGO.

[B]

For every 600, that is Mind numbing to me, man. And so is musk all over this.

[A]

Well, it's India. So I mean, I don't know how.

[B]

Far government money going.

[A]

I mean, I'm allegedly. I don't know. You know, they don't even know how many nos. I asked him how many there are. He's like, there's millions. They, they found 55,000 nos initially with like some sort of an AI scan. This was early on that were connected to donating to Democratic Party. Just 55,000 of them.

[B]

No wonder the Democrats don't want to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Go in there.

[A]

Of 100%. I mean, the loudest people are the ones that are the, the scaredest. And they found that when they started looking, USAID were the most adamant about that was.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, just the, the, the waste.

[A]

And the, it's just such a shame that it's so politically polarizing. You know, it shouldn't be. It should be people on the left and people on the right should be looking at their tax dollars going, hey, it shouldn't be going to that. Like, I want my representatives on the left to have the values that I have for real. Not to be like, actually supported by a bunch of businesses that are trying to push these things because they're going to profit, you know, all the green energy and all this weird stuff that they're doing. Like, why are you pushing all these things? Why are you pushing all these pharmaceutical drugs? Is it because you really care about people or is it because you're reaping massive profits and you find out, oh, you guys are mad because they're taking away your ability to make money. That's all it is.

[B]

That's the whole thing with the, the Make America Healthy Again movement. The whole Maha movement is not about taking away the freedom of choice. It's about getting some of the corruption out of our food supply and out of our nutritional research. I mean, when you start to look at stats for how much of our public policy research is funded by private industry.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, you've, you've talked about it before. The food pyramid says lucky charms is more nutritious than grass fed steak.

[A]

It's so crazy. It's more, more, more nutritious than ground beef according to the food pyramid.

[B]

That's insanity.

[A]

So kooky.

[B]

And you said Bobby on your.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

What did you think about the interview with him?

[A]

Well, you know, I apologize to Bobby at the beginning of the interview because when I was uninformed, I had always believed the narrative. They did a really good job of painting him as this vaccine kook, you know, and that's not the case at all. And I didn't realize until I read his book. When I read the real Anthony Fauci, I was like, oh, okay. Well, there's a lot more to the story than I thought there was. And that was a very depressing book. Very sobering, eye opening, depressing book. And when I got to the end of it, I was like, oh, God. And I was like, I gotta talk to this guy. And he started emailing me because I was like, there's no way this could be true what he's saying. Like when. When he explained that by saying the vaccine is 100 effective, what it really meant in stopping death, it meant that two people died in the unvaccinated group, and one person died in the vaccinated group. So of COVID one person died in the vaccinated group of COVID So because it was two in the unvaccinated, and that's 100, I was like, there's no way that could be true. And then he emailed me all the data, and I was like this because we were talking about on the podcast before I'd ever had him on, when I was still skeptical, I was like, that doesn't make sense. And Bobby reached out to me, and I read it. I was like, okay, I got it. I got to do a deep dive on this.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then I had a litigator on who was representing people against the pharmaceutical drug companies for Vioxx when they had pushed Vioxx on people. And a guy I know was a former UFC fighter. He had a stroke from Vioxx.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And it killed 60, 000 people. And they gave them a fine. They gave him a fine of like $5 billion. They made 12 billion. They gave him a fine.

[B]

I'll pay that tomorrow.

[A]

Yeah. What the are you saying profited. You profited 7 billion? Is that what you're saying? And that's okay. And you killed 60,000 people? What the are you talking? And then what about the people that didn't die? Like, the guy I know who had a stroke.

[B]

Yeah, but, but the question is, did they know? What did they know and when they.

[A]

Knew that they knew. In the emails, they were explaining how this is going to cause problems, and these are the problem. But we think we will do very well with this. No, yes, it's in the emails. So all that had to come out in disclosure. It's dark stuff, man, because they've been sacrificing human beings for profit for a long time.

[B]

I totally agree with that.

[A]

And, you know, one of the things, you know that we had a discussion earlier today, we were talking about the difference between being able to do things that are sanctioned by the entire medical system versus what else can be done. And can you even recommend these things? You can't, because they're outside of the boundaries of the established medical system. But, but there is science that supports these things and, you know, it's beneficial to human health. But you can't prescribe these things for people. You can't tell people to do these things because it's not within the wheelhouse of what's acceptable.

[B]

That's what we were talking about today at the breakfast table this morning. I mean, it's, it's, it's not that it's sad that we have to look at conventional medicine and let's call it unconventional therapies as two different things.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like, I, I, I, I sort of look at it like one cares for the host and one is going after the villain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the subject we were discussing this morning, and what I find fascinating is a lot of these practitioners are equally as educated. They come from the same universities, they have the same allopathic backgrounds. One goes into work in a conventional medical system. System. One goes into a functional medical system, but they have the same basic training, they want the same outcomes. But what happens is, you know, when this box, and we'll talk about this on your podcast, too, but this box gets put around a lot of physicians where, okay, here's the standard of care. Now, can you go outside of the standard care? Yes, you can. But if you do, this is where you're not covered by your malpractice. If you go outside of the standard of care and something happens to the client, well, now you're outside of the standard standard of care.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, in California, they can actually take your license for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is even crazier.

[A]

Well, they were trying to take people's license away from here. Like, a doctor that I'm friends with out here almost lost her License because she was prescribing ivermectin during COVID and she had to, she had to go against the board for this.

[B]

I remember how like the media was hammering you for it and because you took ivermectin and.

[A]

No, but not just that. I told them I took a whole.

[B]

Vitamin C, vitamin D3.

[A]

I told them all the stuff that I took and I was better. So instead of saying, hey, look, this 55 year old guy got healthy in three days. It was three days after my initial infection that I made that video. So what does CNN do? They changed the color of my face in the video. They made my face green.

[B]

They did?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You never saw it.

[B]

I, I, I, I remember the video. I didn't know that they just made.

[A]

You look, see the, there's a couple comparison online. I'll show it to you. That's why I, I'll show it to you. Because it's so crazy. It's so crazy. You see it, you're like, no, is.

[B]

This real Dr. Gupta about it?

[A]

Yeah, not, not about that. I don't think I did, I don't know if I did about that, but I definitely did about them about the.

[B]

CNN's coverage of it, which was pretty crazy.

[A]

Yeah, it was kooky to be a.

[B]

Part of it because Made you look really sick.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So let me see the bottom is the real picture.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

No, dude, cnn, that's our trusted news network. That's America's news.

[B]

No way they did that. And you look like Shrek.

[A]

I look terrible. I look like I'm on death's door. You really do. On the bottom I look rosy faced and healthy because I was.

[B]

But also, hey, yellow journalism, fake news.

[A]

Also, hey, why, if you guys care about people, why don't you say, hey, look at this guy who works out every day, takes vitamins every day, eats really healthy. Why don't more of us do what this guy's doing? Because obviously this, this disease was not a threat to him. So if you look at the conventional wisdom that was going around when the initial wave of COVID was going, like everybody was in danger, but people over 50 were really in danger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when you get someone who's over 50 who bounces back really quickly and then just tells you what they took near, then you have to lie. So they didn't have anything. So because of the video went viral. So like, oh, he got better so quick. The video went viral. Like, what are we going to say?

[B]

What are they?

[A]

Ivermectin. He's taking horse dewormer. Horse medication.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Meanwhile, all it takes is a quick Google search to realize, oh, actually, it stops viral replication in vitro. It stops yellow fever. They treat malaria with it. There's all these different diseases of.

[B]

Scripts have been written for it.

[A]

Billions.

[B]

Yeah, billions. Billions.

[A]

Billions of prescriptions.

[B]

Billions.

[A]

And it's one of the safest drugs as far as, like, safety profile that we're aware of. It's on the World Health Organization's list of essential medicines. And they tried to say it was a veterinary medicine, and I was a fool. Don't look at this fool. Forget about the fact that he's healthy in three days.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This guy's a loser.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was crazy.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

It was crazy. And then the vaccine misinformation. Talk misinformation about vaccines, bitch. I was talking to the guy who invented MRNA technology.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's where the vaccine misinformation came from. Dr. Robert Malone. He owns nine patents on the creation of vaccines, vaccine, MRNA, vaccine technology. And I was also talking to Dr. Peter McCullough. He was the other guy, the misinformation guy. Who is the most published doctor in his field in human history.

[B]

That's insane. Solid.

[A]

Most published in human history in his field.

[B]

Wow. Charlatan.

[A]

It was fascinating because instead of saying, why is Joe Rogan healthy so quick? What happened? Because it was the delta, which is when everyone was scared of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, hey, guys, I gotta cancel these. It was just me saying I gotta cancel concerts because me and Dave Chappelle were supposed to be in Nashville that weekend. I was like, I gotta cancel. I'm fine. I was sick for a couple days, but I took all this stuff. This is what I took, and I'm better. We're gonna reschedule. See you soon. And then this wave of bullshit and propaganda, and I was like, this is. And calls for me to be deplatformed.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I saw that with Spotify.

[A]

Absolutely. Platform. Fascinating. Thank God Spotify is not an American company. And Daniel Ek, who runs it, is a great guy who's.

[B]

They stood with you.

[A]

Yeah. But it was like, boy, the pressure.

[B]

Had they been an American company, that might have actually.

[A]

Oh, if I was just on YouTube, I would have been. It would have been over. They would have 100 pulled my show. I probably never would have bounced back.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is crazy, man. And then that's. That's the way that they attacked that kind of information. Now, you see, Zuckerberg's done a 180. I've got heard you talk to.

[A]

Well, he has to, because one of the things that Trump said, that if I find out that you engaged in election interference, you're going to be in prison for the rest of your life. And he tweeted that, and I think everybody got really scared because if he won, I mean, everybody was hedging their bets, like, Jesus, if this guy's wins, we. We could be in a real bad situation. And look, he won. And so now, you know, I don't know what's going to happen as far as prosecutions, but there's a lot of people that did a lot of really shady. How about the people that are involved in that race? Russiagate scandal? Like, unbelievable. None of those to this day.

[B]

What's. What's wild is they can't produce a single vote that they can link to being altered by a Russian.

[A]

No, not one. Well, not just that. The whole thing, the whole Steele dossier, was financed by the Hillary Clinton campaign. Like, this is cr. It's crazy stuff, and it's right in front of everybody's face. So that was to bring it back to your original question. That's what led me to have Trump on. I liked them. I enjoyed talking to him. We had fun. He's a fun dude.

[B]

You know, he rolled for three hours, like, off the top of his head, too.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, he's fine. Like, people think he's, like, mentally compromised. He's fine. I have concerns with the immigration stuff. Like, I did not like the fact that we had an open border and terrorists were flooding into the country. And not only that, they were shipping people to swing states. I'm like. And I listen to Elon talk about is like, they're literally buying the boat, the vote. They're. They're putting up this gigantic magnet that pulls all these people in from all these countries. If you live in America and if you make $34,000 a year, you are in the 1% of the world. That's a crazy statistic. But when people want to. Oh, the one percenters, man. One percenter's 34 grand, which is a lot of people. That's a lot of people. A lot of them make 34 grand. You're in the 1% of the world. You come here from another country and you get a construction job. You could be a 1 percenter, which is so. So of course, people are coming in here from all across the country. So now this is mass deportations. My fear is that there's going to get a lot of people that get roped up in these mass deportations that are not criminals, that are not gang members, that are just people that were unfortunate and they were born in another place or they got political asylum and they came here. That's my fear. So I'm worried about the over correction.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, I, I do have a.

[B]

Genuine concern being narrowed down to, you know, the worst of the worst for right now, supposedly.

[A]

But there's a few cases. There's a gay hairdresser that supposedly was sent to the El Salvador prison who was a guy who sought political asylum from Venezuela, and he's not a gang member at all. But, you know, I don't know.

[B]

This is a. Glenn, you're saying deportation, but not too obviously.

[A]

Well, they're sending them to a supermax in El Salvador. You know, it's kind of scary.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the, the over corrections are a real problem. But the problem of gang members is a giant problem. And it's a giant problem that they were not just condoning, but they were putting up these sanctuary cities where they were arresting these gang members and then letting them go. The whole thing's crazy. They arrested gang members in California. They wouldn't allow the Trump administration to deport them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's.

[B]

And, and not just arrested gang members. Gang members that were actually charged with murder, for rape, for all kinds of insane crimes.

[A]

Yes. Somebody sent me this. I try to remember who sent it to me. This one guy was so bad that the country that he was from would not take him back. He had. So he was such a criminal. The country was like, we're not taking that guy back. Come on.

[B]

You just stick them in your maximum security prison. They just didn't even want him there.

[A]

Well, they didn't want them there, so they're probably going to send them to El Salvador, which is. El Salvador is like, come on, we just built this amazing prison.

[B]

We're trying to fill it up.

[A]

But that's the overcorrection. Right. That's what people are scared of with totalitarian governments. They're scared of people going far left and then they're scared of the rebound being far right. We really wish to be somewhere in a reasonable, compassionate.

[B]

That's where most of the country is. I mean, we're talking about it on the way here. It's like, it's not freedom of choice or freedom of expression. It's. It's infringement of choice and infring.

[A]

Yes. But it's all really about power and control. And that's what's scary about all governments.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They always want More power. They always want more control.

[B]

And I'm highly supportive of the Maha movement and, and the idea of getting poison out of our food supply. The idea not, not limiting choice. You want to eat McDonald's, eat McDonald's. You want, want to vape, vape. If you want to smoke a cigarette, smoke a cigarette. But if you know, you know the consequences of those things. What, what you don't know is, you know, when I take this water out of my tap and I'm drinking it because, you know, I live in a civilized county.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm assuming that the government has stood in the gap and is protecting me from toxins in there and toxins in my food supply doesn't mean that everything has to be organic. You can't eat an Oreo. What it means is when we, when, when we put forever chemicals in, you know, pesticides, herbicides, insecticides, preservatives, dyes, artificial flavors, artificial sweeteners. I mean, these chemicals that are banned in a lot of other countries, which means that there are ways to do this that are just a lot healthier for.

[A]

Here's what's crazy. They're saying this is going to kill our business. You already make them for other countries that don't have that stuff.

[B]

That's the craziest thing. Right. You're already, you doing it. You can't even make this hard, yet.

[A]

You won't do it for us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You want to sell us the really bright red Froot Loops.

[B]

Yeah. It's not, maybe they're just not as bright, but they're, they're, they're, you know, colored with beet juice instead of red dye number three. And there's making some headway. And, you know, I, I pray that Bobby is successful and, and keeps a good, strong group around him. And, and I know there's a lot of influencers out there like yourself and myself, that are trying to do everything we can to help support.

[A]

I think what you do and what I do, that's the most important thing is live by example. Be, Be healthy and talk about it and say, this is what I do. And this, this can help you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I think that's the. Because the more influence you have in that regard, more people will make healthy choices. I don't want them to get rid of Doritos. I like Doritos. Yeah, I know. They're bad for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when I eat them, like, oh, yum, yum, yum. But I don't eat them. I don't eat them every day.

[B]

Msg msg. Msg, msg.

[A]

I don't eat them every day. I eat them very, very rarely. No, I mean I do like those masa chips do.

[B]

The masa are legit, right?

[A]

Because you get everything. Basically you get Doritos. Not quite, but pretty close. But you don't feel bad eating them?

[B]

Well, I mean they're, they're non GMO corn, grass fed beef tallow and sea salt in their, in their basic version. And the other ones are all the spices you would recommend. But those are my kind of ingredients. Non GMO corn, grass fed beef tallow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sea salt. I'll take that.

[A]

And there's Vandry chips, I think company.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Vandy. That's right. Vandy chips.

[B]

Those are.

[A]

Love those, those are amazing. So good.

[B]

You can smash a whole bag of.

[A]

Those just like you all the time. But, but those are once again just, just potatoes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And beef tallow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And salt. That's it.

[B]

So. And it's what it should be. That's so amazing. It's like if you don't want to up a ribeye, just cook it in grass fed butter and put some Baja gold salt on it. It'll be the best piece of steak you've ever had. You don't need all the barbecues and everything else, just, just grass fed butter ribeye.

[A]

But if you ever want a little barbecue sauce, I'm American, I believe you should have the choice to have that sweet ass barbecue sauce.

[B]

I do think you should have a choice.

[A]

But if you want to have it, go have it. But just be aware that there's consequences. Like I don't drink anymore, but if I wanted to have a drink I can, I'm not an alcoholic but I know that it's bad for me so I stopped drinking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if I wanted to, like, if I want to celebrate something, have a toast, who cares, right? Just don't do it all the time. It's like the same thing almost everything.

[B]

Yeah, I agree, I agree.

[A]

Have a piece of cake every now and then. Yeah, it's not bad for you. But don't eat cake every meal. That's crazy. Yeah, that's not good for you.

[B]

People do, they do.

[A]

But this is what's, I think the best thing about what you do. It's like live by example, talk about what's healthy and then the more people hear it and then they start to act upon that and then they start feeling better. And once you start feeling better, like, man, I don't want to slip back because this I've lost 20 pounds. I'm feeling great. Like, I have a buddy of mine, my buddy, John Reeves, who lives up in Alaska. He runs that thing. You ever hear about the boneyard in Alaska? He's got this incredible land. It's got all these woolly mammoths. Died on it for some reason. And they have really thousands of tusks. It's. You never heard of the place?

[B]

No.

[A]

I'll show you some. The Boneyard Alaska is his Instagram page. But he's got this insane piece of. He's a gold miner. And they find all this. And they found this one area that's only a few acres that seems to align with this. It seems to align with this mass extinction event thing because. Yeah, because they're finding all this stuff in a very small area of like, a few acres where they found thousands and thousands of bones.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. So this is his.

[B]

Why would everyone be there?

[A]

Because they're. They also find carbon, like a thick layer of carbon, like where there was a massive burn somewhere around 10,000, 11,000 years ago. So they find all these woolly mammoth tusks, and they're in the permafrost, so they hose them out of the permafrost with high pressure hoses, and then they pull them. He has warehouses filled with these tusks and bones. Not only that, they've identified animals that weren't even supposed to be living in Alaska.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where is he getting the money to harvest all this?

[A]

He's rich.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

He's the biggest landowner in Alaska. He's awesome.

[B]

And so this is a labor of love for him.

[A]

He's just doing it for fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, he's got an enormous collection of this stuff.

[B]

Wow. That's wild.

[A]

It's incredible. But he's been on the carnivore diet over the last month. He lost 38 pounds, so. He looks so excited.

[B]

Oh, is this him?

[A]

Yeah, he's giant, dude.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah. Wow.

[A]

Awesome guy.

[B]

Yeah. Carnivore diet. I do him good.

[A]

Yeah. So he quit smoking because he was dying. Went to the doctor. Doc's like, you got to quit smoking, because I just did. So he quit smoking.

[B]

Just cold turkey.

[A]

Yep, Just cold turkey right there. And then started being healthy and good. Now he's lost a ton of weight.

[B]

This is wild. Dana's got a skull like this in his. In his office.

[A]

Yeah. Big like a saber tooth tiger. Yeah, I have. It's incredible.

[B]

It's one of like two or three in the world.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's not Many of the ones.

[A]

Oh, intact. Fully intact.

[B]

Fully intact. I think it's perfect. That's pretty, Pretty wild.

[A]

Yeah. But he's another guy. It's like, you know, his whole life has been smoking, not paying nothing, taking care of himself, drinking, and now he says, all right, we'll see. And he's like, I feel great.

[B]

Yeah. And the nice thing about the human body is its capacity to really bounce back. I mean, you know, never count it down. I've actually seen, you know, liver shrink to the size of your fist, completely regenerate. I mean, I've seen the radiographic images of, of these things with, with stem cell treatments and, and, and therapies.

[A]

I feel like otherwise we'd all be dead.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The liver could regenerate.

[A]

Yeah, we'd all be dead if. If the human body didn't have an amazing capacity to heal. Yeah, we'd all be.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. Well, Joe, this has been amazing, man. I, I definitely want to come and chop it up with you again. Do we leave anything out?

[A]

I don't think so. If we did, we're going to do my podcast this week.

[B]

Okay, so we're doing your podcast this week. We covered the woolly mammoths. We covered the.

[A]

Basically everything.

[B]

I wind down all of my podcasts by asking the same question. There's no right or wrong answer.

[A]

Okay, question.

[B]

And it's what. What does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

[A]

I never really thought of that. Well, I think if you're doing your best in all areas of life, I mean, you should be doing your best to be a nice person. You should be doing your best to be educated and to be charitable and compassionate, understand things to the best of your ability, and then be as healthy as you can. You know, figure out what you have to do to manage your mind, manage your body and your life. Just put in the work, figure it out. And if you do that, you will be happier and healthier. Not just healthily healthier physically, but healthier mentally, which will definitely help. Help you become healthier physically. It's just about having this mindset that you want to do your best. You want to do your best with life. You want to, like, you have a short amount of time. I'm 57 years old, so I'm at the very. At the best case scenario. I'm halfway dead, you know, Best case. I mean, if I make it to. I mean, if I make it to 120 years old, holy shit. The last 20 years are going to be rough unless there's some incredible scientific breakthroughs, which it seems like there are. Do your best. You don't, you know, you want to enjoy this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Enjoy this life. And if you're healthy physically and mentally, you'll. You'll have a better life.

[B]

I totally agree with you, Joe. Appreciate you so much.

[A]

Thank you, brother. Appreciate you very much.

[B]

Can't wait to run yours, too. Right before the podcast, Joe and I were talking about my private VIP group. It's a private group where you get private podcasts, monthly, live Q and A calls with me, exclusive discounts from all of our health partners. You can ask your most pressing health questions to leading professionals and pioneers and practitioners in the space. I even developed a 10 month course called Becoming the Ultimate Human. Meaning the ultimate human version of yourself. Everything from nighttime routines to morning routines to sleep hacks, to cold plunging, to sun exposure, grounding, breathwork, whole food dieting. All of my hacks for traveling are all in this 10 month course and it's entirely free for VIPs. Guys, head over to theultimatehuman.com VIP or just theultimatehuman.com Sign up to be a VIP member and Joe Rogan and I are heading into the private VIP chat now. I'll see you guys there.