259. Marcus & Amber Capone: On Ibogaine, Veteran Suicide, PTSD Treatment & Brain Health

Summary

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The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka

Episode 259: Marcus & Amber Capone – On Ibogaine, Veteran Suicide, PTSD Treatment & Brain Health

Release date: April 7, 2026
Guests: Marcus & Amber Capone
Host: Gary Brecka

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Episode Overview

This powerful episode delves deeply into the crisis of veteran suicide, the limitations of conventional mental health treatment, and how Marcus and Amber Capone’s personal journey led to not only saving their marriage, but also to founding impactful organizations and exploring alternative therapies like ibogaine for PTSD, brain health, and trauma healing. The Capones share hard-won insights, radical vulnerability, and practical advice for anyone facing similar struggles—veteran or not.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Veteran Suicide: The Harsh Reality

• Staggering Stats: More veterans have died by suicide post-9/11 than in combat — over 150,000 suicides vs. just over 7,000 combat deaths.
  • “That number is just staggering. That number is real.” — Marcus (00:18, 08:58)
• Modern Medicine's Shortcomings: Standard prescriptions (antidepressants, talk therapy) frequently act as coping or symptom-reduction mechanisms, not solutions.
  • “Most of what they offer people that are in that condition are coping mechanisms.” — Gary (00:28, 05:04)
• Isolation & Stigma: Military and men especially “white-knuckle life,” avoiding vulnerability and asking for help.
  • “We’re not good for asking for help. We don’t want to show weakness.” — Marcus (11:11)
  • SEAL ethos of always having a "buddy check" contrasts with post-service isolation.

2. Personal Story: Struggle, Desperation, and Hope

• Amber’s Perspective: She felt Western medicine had run out of options and was prepared to “try anything” to save Marcus and their family.
  • “I was just willing to try anything. And I did it as much to forgive myself if the worst happened as I did to help him.” — Amber (03:02)
• Red Flags at Home: Loss of passion, withdrawal, neurological symptoms (difficulty with simple tasks).
  • “Some of the red flags that I could identify in hindsight would be … becoming more isolated.” — Amber (25:32)
  • Marcus: “I didn't want to get out of bed. I mean, I had definitely diagnosed clinical depression…” (26:14)

3. Rethinking PTSD & Brain Health

• Beyond PTSD: The Capones emphasize brain health and the role of biologic factors like repeated head trauma (football, explosives).
  • “We're kind of moving away from the term mental health more into brain health because we're starting to see this as a biologic issue, not, you know, quote unquote, a mental issue.” — Marcus (06:43)
• Not Just War Trauma: Childhood, microtrauma, transition, and accumulated stressors are all part of the picture.

4. The Breakthrough: Ibogaine

• Reluctance & Research: Initially dismissed by Marcus as “hippie shit,” ibogaine comes up after years of failed treatments.
  • “It was a pure ego thing. Like, I'm ... not doing that. It's a psychedelic, it's a drug … But so then I started doing my own research. ... This is not a drug. This is a medicine.” — Marcus (34:51)
• Life-Changing Experience: Marcus describes “the glow” immediately after treatment. Amber’s reaction:
  • “His countenance was back. ... It was like immediate. Exactly the way I remember.” — Amber (44:37)
  • “You can see the individuals almost literally looks like they have heat radiating from them.” — Marcus (45:24)

Notable Ibogaine Effects

• Guests recount profound perspective shifts: reliving trauma from different vantage points, experiencing the pain caused to others, and finally understanding “why I am the way I am.”
  • “I could feel it and it hurt. And I just said, that's it. I will never do that again. Like, I don't ever want Amber or our children to feel that pain...” — Marcus (40:27)
• Cost & Accessibility: Treatment not covered by insurance, ranging $8.5k–$10k, but considered effective and, for many, transformative.

5. Shifting Culture: Vulnerability & Community

• Radical Vulnerability: The Capones’ public sharing (including a PSA video) catalyzed others, including “tough” teammates, to seek help.
• Community is Everything: Isolation is deadly; community—though once dismissed as “hippie-dippy”—is fundamental to healing.
  • “…if you wanted to cut a human being's life expectancy in half, and I mean in half, at any age, you would put them in isolation.” — Gary (18:28)

6. Paying It Forward: VETS and Beyond

• VET Solutions: Non-profit supporting about six veterans weekly to undergo ibogaine treatment abroad; impactful partnerships with leading research institutions.
• Spillover to Civilian World: Marcus’s commercial venture Taramind seeks to replicate these advanced treatments and data-driven matching of therapies in private sector and employee benefit plans.
• Broad Relevance: These insights and interventions apply to anyone struggling with trauma, depression, or transition—not just veterans.

7. Family, Healing, and Partnership

• Ending the Trauma Cycle: Their healing radically changed family dynamics and offered generational hope.
  • “It definitely stopped trauma cycles for our family.” — Amber (13:56)
• Building Together: They discuss working as life and business partners, the importance of complementary strengths, and strategies (like the “Rocket Fuel” book’s ‘Visionary and Integrator’ framework) to maximize their impact together.
• Philosophy of Healing: Love, grace, curiosity, and “sending it” (going all-in) are central themes.

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Notable Quotes

• “You have a greater chance of dying by suicide entering the military than you do of dying in combat. That data becomes very sobering.” — Gary (09:42)
• “I just said, is this the next wave of what we're going to witness? … Many of us are coming home with hidden wounds of war. … and then let's throw transition in there. And it's very difficult to diagnose a person.” — Marcus (05:25)
• “Sometimes that pain is not good for your spouse, your children, your friends, your co-worker or for you that matter.” — Gary (13:07)
• “We think that we're human beings in search of spiritual experiences, but we're really spiritual beings having human experiences.” — Amber (79:28)

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Timestamp Guide to Major Segments

| Time | Topic/Quote | |-------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Amber recounts Marcus’s post-service struggle; suicide crisis stats introduced | | 02:46 | The Capones begin their story: transition out of military, desperation, and search for help | | 05:25 | The origin & impact of their vulnerability (PSA video) on SEAL community | | 08:00 | Breakdown of veteran suicide statistics; magnitude compared to combat deaths | | 11:11 | Marcus on SEAL “buddy check” culture vs. isolated civilian experience | | 13:07 | Pain’s ripple effect on family | | 14:50 | Amber details their first steps in public advocacy (PSA video) | | 17:01 | Marcus finds relief learning he’s not alone | | 18:28 | Gary on isolation, the neuroscience of connection, and “broken heart syndrome” | | 20:19 | The power of community and couplehood—“the glow effect” | | 22:12 | Gary reframes PTSD and isolation as universal, not just military | | 25:32 | Amber details red flags and warning signs for struggling loved ones | | 27:03 | Ibogaine enters the story: skepticism, research, and the process toward acceptance | | 33:08 | Amber connects Marcus’s neurological symptoms to repeated head trauma (CTE research) | | 34:51 | Marcus’s personal shift: from dismissing ibogaine to embracing research and trying the “medicine” | | 36:39 | The healing experience and outcomes after ibogaine | | 40:27 | Marcus’s account of judging, empathy, and breakthrough during ibogaine treatment | | 44:35 | Amber on seeing Marcus transformed post-treatment | | 47:47 | Advice for families: think outside the box; logistics of ibogaine treatment (titrating off SSRIs, VA) | | 48:57 | The birth of VET Solutions: giving back, building a movement | | 50:02 | Life after healing: new projects, organization, and spreading knowledge | | 54:30 | The Capones launching their own podcast, extending their mission | | 55:35 | Amber’s metaphor: “steering into the open field instead of the tree” (life’s spiral & focus) | | 58:58 | Health routines & supplements segment: breakdown of Marcus’s supplement regime and Gary’s commentary | | 65:32 | Migraines, hydration, and the importance of mineral salt for health | | 69:27 | Reflections on marriage, business partnership & the “Rocket Fuel” book | | 71:03 | Teamwork in marriage—celebrating wins and sharing losses | | 75:21 | The role of mental health in everyone’s life—one degree of separation | | 75:40 | “What does it mean to be an ultimate human?”—Marcus and Amber’s answers | | 79:28 | Amber on love, radical vulnerability, and spirituality | | 80:18 | Where to learn more: thecapones.com and VETsolutions.org |

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Memorable Moments

• Marcus describes immediately “seeing the glow” in others after their ibogaine journey. (45:17)
• Learning that vulnerability can save lives, especially in a culture that prizes suppressing emotion.
• Amber’s Christmas lights story—realizing Marcus’s struggles were more neurological than just emotional. (31:11)
• "20 to 44" veterans lost daily—driving home the urgency and scale of the crisis. (08:00)
• The very real, practical side of healing: the challenges of titrating off medications, hiding plans from skeptical doctors, searching for hope beyond the "approved" options. (48:09)

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Practical Takeaways & Resources

• Warning Signs: Withdrawal, loss of interest, neurological struggles, “white-knuckling” through life.
• Ibogaine as an Option: Not a panacea or for everyone, but life-changing for many with “treatment-resistant” cases. Cost approx. $8.5k–$10k.
• Organizations to Know:
  • VET Solutions: Nonprofit funding overseas brain health/psychedelic treatments for veterans
  • thecapones.com: Marcus & Amber’s personal & project hub
• Supplements & Health Hacks: Marcus’s supplement “go bag” (electrolytes, protein, fiber, omega-3s, liver support, bone broth, methylene blue, berberine); Gary’s strong focus on water filtration and minerals

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Stand-Out Quotes

"We think that we're human beings in search of spiritual experiences, but we're really spiritual beings having human experiences."
— Amber Capone (79:28)

"If you wanted to cut a human being's life expectancy in half, at any age, you would put them in isolation."
— Gary Brecka (18:28)

"Curiosity is one of the biggest attributes that we can have ... If I was stuck in my ways, I would have never gotten better."
— Marcus Capone (75:49)

“It’s one thing to have a pulse, it’s another thing to live.”
— Amber Capone (48:28)

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Conclusion

Marcus and Amber Capone’s appearance on The Ultimate Human is a compelling testament to the power of open-mindedness, love, and radical vulnerability in tackling our deepest wounds. Their journey from silent suffering, despair, and borderline hopelessness to healing and global advocacy provides actionable hope—reminding listeners that brain health challenges are universal, that there are always more options than it seems, and that sharing your story saves more lives than just your own.

Watch the documentary In Waves and War for a deeper dive.

Resources:

• thecapones.com
• vetsolutions.org

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This episode is essential for anyone impacted by trauma, mental health struggles, or seeking the next step after “standard” treatments fail—not just for veterans, but for any human craving real, lasting healing.

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Transcript

[Amber Capone]

It was after Marcus's service that things started to really unwind. He really struggled. When he transitioned into civilian life, I knew that he was grappling with thoughts of suicide. But I felt like western medicine had no more options for us based around

[Gary Brecker]

suicide in the military. I mean, we actually lost more military service members to suicide than we have in combat.

[Marcus Capone]

We've lost individuals that died by suicide, over 150,000, compared to just over 7,000 that were lost in the battlefield. So that number is just staggering. That number is real.

[Gary Brecker]

And if you look at modern medicine's approach, most of what they offer people that are in that condition are coping mechanisms.

[Marcus Capone]

I was prescribed antidepressants for years and we know now that antidepressants work for maybe 30 to 50% of the population. What do we do for the other 50%?

[Gary Brecker]

What would you say to the audience that's listening to this? That would be great ways to maybe throw up a flag that someone might need some help.

[Amber Capone]

Some of the red flags that I could identify in hindsight would be.

[Marcus Capone]

Ultimate human.

[Gary Brecker]

Hey, guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecker, where we go down the road of everything, anti aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And today's only my three third person shoot podcast. So this is one of those in between podcasts. But welcome to the podcast. Marcus and Amber Capone. I am so psyched to have you guys on here. You know, my only regret was in preparation for this podcast, I watched your documentary and I wish I had watched that before I had DJ Shipley on the podcast because.

[Amber Capone]

Yeah, yeah, I don't think it was out yet actually.

[Gary Brecker]

Okay, that would be a good excuse.

[Amber Capone]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

Okay then.

[Amber Capone]

Good.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

When did it.

[Marcus Capone]

November 4th, it started airing.

[Gary Brecker]

Oh, okay, so he was on before November 4th.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

But let me tell you something, that was an eye openening documentary for me because I think a lot of people and if you haven't watched In Waves and War, you have to watch it. I'm going to put a link in the show notes below. My wife watched it, I watched it. Incredibly impactful podcast. And not just if you are married to someone who's a service member or former Navy seal, but anyone who is struggling with, with mental illness, addiction. This is just such a, such a life changing moment for a lot of these people. But before we talk about the documentary and there's a lot we're going to unpack today, I wonder if you'd rewind a little bit and just talk about Your journey. What led up to this documentary about Ibogaine?

[Amber Capone]

How much time do we have?

[Marcus Capone]

Can be here for a few hours?

[Gary Brecker]

As much as you want. We already talked about him running long on podcast, so first, Gary, just thank

[Marcus Capone]

you for having us here. We're super stoked to be on the show. So, yeah, I'm very excited to get into whatever we're going to go. And I know it feels like you're. You're ready to rock. So if you want to.

[Amber Capone]

Totally honored to be here. I echo everything Marcus just said. Thank you. And, you know, we've been together for a very long time, almost three decades, so that's why there's a lot of content. But it was after Marcus's service that things started to really unwind. And leading up to his exit from the military, we had spent so much, much time apart, like up to 300 days a year, that I didn't really know him anymore. There's a lot to that. But all to say that he really struggled when he transitioned out of the military into civilian life. And I was desperate to help him because I didn't want to lose him. But I felt like Western medicine had no more options for us because he had tried several things and he can talk more about, you know, how when you try and try and try again and don't receive a result, you can become very desperate. So I knew that he was grappling with thoughts of suicide, and I was just willing to try anything. And I did it as much to forgive myself if the worst happened as I did to. To help him, because I didn't think anything would help at that point, but it did.

[Gary Brecker]

And I, you know, I think that's what's so important about this documentary is I. I don't want it to be pigeonholed as, like, the savior of our service members. I want it to be broadened so that people that are struggling with psychiatric illness or conditions like depression, crippling anxiety, um, you know, the. What. What this seemed to do was unlock the reasons behind it, which is what I found out, found really fascinating about the documentary because, you know, if. If you look at modern medicine's approach, and this is not to. To dog on modern medicine, most of what they offer people that are in that condition are coping mechanisms.

[Marcus Capone]

Right. So symptom. Symptom reduction.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, you've got a heavy backpack on. You can just get stronger. We don't know how to take it off. Right. And I think one of the tipping points for me watching the documentary was listening to DJ Shipley talk about how he saw a post that you had done with him and you were just being like, very vulnerable.

[Marcus Capone]

We did a psa, so we had lost Gary, we had lost a few teammates to suicide in the weeks leading up to the psa. And I just said, I kind of broke down and I said, is this the next wave of what we're going to witness? You know, we fought 20 years of combat. If you come home with all your digits and all your toes, like that's a good thing. Many of us are coming home with hidden wounds of war and that's, you know, hidden wounds of war. But also some, you know, let's throw in some childhood stuff there. Let's throw the wartime stuff, whether it's trauma, whether it's brain trauma, TBIs through concussives, concussions, et cetera. And then let's throw transition in there. And it's very difficult to diagnose a person.

[Gary Brecker]

Right.

[Marcus Capone]

That's what, you know, if you go on to go back to western medicine, we don't want to dog it here. They want to take a single diagnosis and a single drug and it's very easy for a doctor. But someone like me who has these complex cases, or if you want to call it comorbids, I was prescribed antidepressants and traditional talk therapy for years. And we know now that antidepressants work for maybe 30 to 50% of the population.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

What do we do for the other 50% if we went over. Right, exactly. Treatment resistant. So if we went out on a mission, they said, hey, 50% of you are not going to come back. That's not a good number.

[Gary Brecker]

Right, right.

[Marcus Capone]

But we're doing that with our current approaches to mental health care or brain health now. Right. We're kind of moving away from the term mental health more into brain health because we're starting to see this as a biologic issue, not, you know, quote unquote, a mental issue. And so not everyone, half of us will not respond to these. And so what do we have available? Right. There are some FDA approved treatments. Now we'll get into what, you know, worked for me. But as I said earlier before we got on the show, you know, ibogaine was just one of the spokes. There's a lot of spokes to this healing process. Right. And there's a hub in the middle and we just have to have access to things that are available and available for us. Right. We just can't put a box around what has been introduced to us almost 30 or 40 years ago. I call it old technology because really, that's what it is.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. And you're right, because, you know, I come from a data science background, and so sometimes you have to take a step back and just look at the outcomes. Right. And some of the most alarming statistics I've ever seen in my lifetime, and hopefully I don't misquote these, were based around suicide in the military. I mean, we've actually lost more military service members to suicide than we have in combat. Significantly more significantly, like four times as many. That is mind numbing.

[Marcus Capone]

Well, if you do, Amber and I are racing too.

[Gary Brecker]

You got it done.

[Amber Capone]

If you actually do the math, over 20 years of combat where we lost just over 7,000 service members in combat. During that same period of time, there's roughly 20 veterans per day that have died by suicide. But independent reports show that it could be double that or higher because they're not taking into account people who have died maybe that aren't registered in VA care or deaths of despair like overdoses or liver failure, you know, whatever from over medication and coping and over medicating. So when you actually do those numbers, 20 to 44 per day, I mean, it could be over 150,000 lost in the same period of time to suicide when compared to the 7,000. It's staggering. And that's also not taking into account people that are suffering with suicidal ideation or barely white knuckling Life.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

So 20 times the amount. So we've lost individuals that died by suicide over 150,000. And a lot of individuals over 150,000 compared to just over 7,000 that were lost in the battlefield. So that number is just staggering.

[Gary Brecker]

That's the one that just.

[Marcus Capone]

That's the one that's mind blowing me

[Gary Brecker]

out of my seat.

[Marcus Capone]

It is. And most people don't know that number. And every time we say that number, I kind of pause to let people really absorb that. Because when you think about it, you know, we. You know, we spend the money, we go to war, we do what we believe is right. We lose over 7,000 individuals, but we lose over 150,000. Like, what is happening?

[Gary Brecker]

Right.

[Marcus Capone]

There's obviously there'll never be a single answer. There's. There's a lot of answers to that, but that number is real.

[Gary Brecker]

It means statistically speaking, you have a greater chance of dying by suicide entering the military than you do of dying in combat.

[Marcus Capone]

Correct.

[Gary Brecker]

And that is at multiples. And that's where I think sometimes the data becomes very sobering. You know, we do this at MAHA Action Committee. I chair Bobby Kennedy's MAHA Action Committee. And just taking a sober look at the data. We spend five and a half trillion dollars a year on healthcare. We're the sickest, fattest, most disease ridden nation in the world. Three quarters of our military age, men and women don't qualify for military service due to poor health. You start looking at these outcomes, then you say, okay, what we're doing's not working right. And this isn't the blame game. You know, it doesn't make you anti science, but what it just says is we need to open the door for, to some alternatives. And was this kind of where that, that journey began with a wife trying to save her marriage and her husband? Because she loves you and I love her. And. Yeah, and, and, and I think that Navy SEALs probably epitomize the generation of men that are just supposed to suck it up. And, and I think they also epitomize the, the mentality of most men. Just suck it up. I mean, you're not, you're not calling your buddy and telling him, I mean, I feel so vulnerable when I'm thinking about taking my own life.

[Marcus Capone]

We're not good for asking for help.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, that's where I'm at.

[Marcus Capone]

We don't want to show weakness by saying, hey, I need help with this. Whatever. It could literally be, I got this. It could be anything. I got this. I'll figure it out. But there's only so many things we can figure out on our own. You know, we have a saying, the SEAL teams we have like this buddy check. You're always with your buddy. From day one at buds, you never go any. You never go six feet outside of your buddy from the day you start to the day you graduate. Including underwater. When you're diving, you actually have a lanyard that's attached to you. So if you and I were dive buddies, I would have the clipped on lanyard, a rope and you'd have it clipped on. We would never be six more than six feet apart. More than six feet apart underwater.

[Amber Capone]

And there's very anti Covid.

[Marcus Capone]

It's anti.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, it's anti social distancing.

[Marcus Capone]

Maybe it should have been six and a half.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, yeah, it should have been six and a half.

[Marcus Capone]

Because Covid only goes six feet, 100 no matter what.

[Gary Brecker]

Six, one.

[Marcus Capone]

It can for sure. But that's the idea, right? Is that you have this buddy now, but all of a sudden now you're not supposed to rely on that buddy when you're struggling internally and you're dealing with. If you want to call it the demons, the darkness, the pain, the depression, the suffering, you can figure it out on your own. And I think we just have to get out of that mindset because who can really do things just by yourself? On your own, you've built the ultimate human. Have you done this solely by yourself or do you have an amazing team that's behind you and that's doing this and doing that all by myself?

[Gary Brecker]

They just sit here. She's actually not on the computer right now.

[Marcus Capone]

Probably scrolling right. They're Instagram. But. But we always need individuals and help. And I've had, luckily I've had a guardian angel that has been my swim buddy for so many years from the day we've met. And it took me a while initially. Amber says it well where we like to white knuckle life meaning just like we just want to hang on. And we're really good at pain. Right. We almost like thrive through pain. But sometimes that pain is not good for your spouse, your children, your friends,

[Gary Brecker]

your co worker or for you that matter.

[Marcus Capone]

And if you don't fix us, everything else doesn't get fixed. We can't put on your own oxygen mask first. And so I think we're getting better at that. I think what you're doing is literally saving so many human lives, Gary. And we're trying to. No, you are. You know, what you're doing is opening up just people's minds to different ways to look at taking care of themselves and taking care of others. And we have trouble admitting it, but we are also saving people's lives. We're not just saving the individual, we're saving the families and we're saving generations. Because if I can take care of my kids and we raise them in a way where they're good, honest, hard working individuals and, and they're good people, then they're going to pass that along to their children and to their children.

[Amber Capone]

It definitely stopped trauma cycles for our family.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Amber Capone]

And reduced generational suffering. And I think that's one of the things that I've witnessed is our community, the Seal community has a very high threshold for suffering. Almost embraces suffering or needs suffering for fuel purpose. I think that a lot of the spouses too are very used to handling a million things and being really tough. And for me, I realized that it didn't matter how tough I was. I was. We were inadvertently bringing our kids along on this insanity quest. You know, it, it just felt like it didn't matter how tough we were. It was impacting them, and it would impact generations. So back to your original question where you said, we put out this psa. Marcus did somewhat unwillingly film a video with me.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah.

[Amber Capone]

Where, you know, really, it was just when vets was getting off the ground and we needed to start sharing the message, start raising funds. And so we did this video that DJ and Patsy saw. And that really is the essence of the video. The basis of the video was this radical vulnerability, which was very against the grain for our community.

[Marcus Capone]

And it was one of the good ideas I had. I always say Amber's. Amber's right. Usually 98% of the time. And the 2%, I always, you know, yeah, you got to feel. I feel the same house.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

Right. And so, you know, I just said, amber, we should. We need to get this message out better. And I said, I think we should do. Let's do a video, let's do a post. Let's just talk about if someone's struggling, that they're not alone. We've been there. We've had friends that have been there, been to the edge. Call a buddy, check on them, or raise your hand and go ask for help. And that was the whole premise behind the public service announcement.

[Gary Brecker]

And it wound up, DJ's wife picked up the phone.

[Marcus Capone]

They were watching it one night, late in bed. And. And DJ will tell you this, and we'll try not to say anything that no one else has come public with. But he just said, as we have many times, just started bawling because he said everything that I was talking about was exactly what he was experiencing. And he thought he was the only one in the world. Right. He's a tough son of a bitch, an amazing human that was dealing with this. And a similar story is when I went to one of the first times I went to see a psychiatrist on the west coast, and I was struggling. I was still on active duty. I went in there and I sat down with him and I said, you know, here's what I'm dealing with, and I don't know why. And I said, you know, I'm sorry, I'm sure you don't get this. And he said, marcus, just stop right there. You're over the 200th seal that has come in to talk to me in, like, the last couple of weeks. Like, there is something significantly going on. He goes, I'm not sure what it is. He's like, I'm sure you guys just have ptsd. Like, that makes sense, right? You guys have been to war. He goes, but you're not the only one. And it kind of gave me a little bit of relief knowing that, okay, I wasn't the only one out there.

[Amber Capone]

I think it was probably not a couple 200 in a couple of weeks, just.

[Marcus Capone]

Well, okay, maybe in a couple of months.

[Amber Capone]

Couple of years, maybe.

[Marcus Capone]

Are you judging me?

[Amber Capone]

No, I just.

[Gary Brecker]

No, I think, thank God Sage is not on this podcast. She will be doing the same thing.

[Amber Capone]

I'm like.

[Marcus Capone]

But the point to that maybe was a couple years, there were many more that came in. Talk about the exact. And it was the exact same things. It was like, anger, depression, anxiety, anxiety attacks, I can't stand in line at Starbucks. Sleeping issues, the sleeping issues, the headaches. It was just kind of everything across the board, very similar. And so when you hear someone talk about that like I did on the psa, and you're on the receiving end listening, you kind of just break down and go, oh, my goodness. Like, what he's talking about is like, he could almost see inside me, and I'm not even next to him. I'm 3,000 miles away. And DJ had heard about it, and Patsy reached out, but so many people heard that psa. And I'm sure, look how many people DJ has saved now. Right? Just through him going through his own healing process and talking about it. And individuals reach out to him all the time. Right?

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, he's a great orator. Now, did you and DJ know each other before?

[Marcus Capone]

We did. We served together at serving 10. We served together at Dev Group, and. And then like everybody else, they go off their ways when they transition. He started a very successful business. I went into. Into finance, and we kind of reconnected after so many years and started talking about some of this stuff. And, yeah, you know, now we're doing kind of some work.

[Gary Brecker]

You know, what's really interesting is, is this dovetails perfectly with, you know, my career in the mortality space. Because one of the things that we knew was that if you wanted to cut a human being's life expectancy in half, and I mean in half, at any age, you would put them in isolation. And this is where we get broken heart syndrome. Right. You need couples that are married 40, 50, 60 years. One spouse passes, we know what happens to the other spouse. Right. And what happened there, that was the first time in half a century that they were put in isolation. And I think a lot of the root of the skyrocketing rates or suicide is they feel so isolated. Right. Like C.J. says, I'm the only one. You're the only one, you know, we're the only ones. And so we just suffer in silence until literally can't take it any longer.

[Marcus Capone]

And, Gary, the other thing is to a very common practice when guys get out of the military, whatever branch, right. You know, my community, this the SEAL community, but every branch, we like to kind of run, turn our back, and, like, do our own thing. And again, we don't want help. I don't want to talk to the guys. I mean, I separated for the guys for years just because I didn't, you know, kind of. You feel ashamed a little bit. You're not doing well. You don't want to let anyone know. It's the isolation.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

So guys wind up moving to, like, Montana, Idaho, These places, like, up in the mountains by themselves, and they. They cut off from the world. And as we know, those are the. The worst thing that you can do. Right? Community is really everything.

[Gary Brecker]

Connection. Right.

[Marcus Capone]

You know, it used to kind of be hippie. Hippie, dippy to talk about that. Yeah. Commune. Community. However, as you're staying, a lot of

[Gary Brecker]

you guys on the video called it this hippie shit. He's like, yeah, hippie shit. And see if it works.

[Marcus Capone]

Maddie said that. Matty Roberts said it in the movie.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

But it is a little bit like that initially, but it's very real. We need people. We need our partner. Like, I. I was able to be away from Amber at 300 days a year, and I had the guys and we were doing our thing, but now, like, if I go away for, like, one or two days, like, it kills me. Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

I'm the same way with my wife. I'm like a little baby.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah, me too.

[Gary Brecker]

I'm so attached to her.

[Marcus Capone]

It's so crazy. 100%. And so we need our. I couldn't imagine Amber not being here. Right. And so we don't love our kids being out of the house. But what we do love is we have our businesses, we have our charity, we get to travel together for everything if we go fundraising. Amber's speaking at Harvard tomorrow. I get to go with her and hang out, and I'll work from my laptop. I'll do my calls. But we get to be together, so we make them little vacations.

[Gary Brecker]

That's so good. If you know me, you know, I don't recommend anything I haven't personally tested. That's not a marketing line. That's just how I operate. I've been on the road my entire career. Different time zones, brutal schedules, no margin for days off. And so I'm constantly Testing what actually works in my own body. NAD was something I keep coming back to. It's the molecule your cells use to produce energy and repair, and it declines faster than most people realize. When I found Symbiotica's liposomal nad, the absorption technology is what got my attention. I tested it, I felt it, and it's been in my bag ever since. I'm always evolving what I put in my body, and this one has stayed on the list. I'm genuinely excited for you to experience it. This is the standard we hold every product to before it even reaches you. Now, let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. But I think the big, big overlying theme that I want to make sure doesn't get masked on this is like, this is not just your main to PTSD from wartime or to Navy SEALs or service members. Like, your. Your case is so much more common. Um, you know, the, The.

[Marcus Capone]

The.

[Gary Brecker]

The situation, albeit maybe from a different source. But I mean, the. The byproduct is this is the same. And so there's somebody that's listening to this or has a loved one that's listening to this that is like, well, you know, my. My husband or my wife wasn't in the service, but it's that. It's that isolation. It's. And it's. And I'm sure that when you unpack this on the ibogaine journey, which I really want to talk about and I want to broaden the topic, but when you unpack this on the ibogaine journey, you realize maybe it wasn't just specifically things that you witnessed in combat, which I think everyone pinpoints as that's what caused it. And. And that's isolated to just those kinds of guys, right, that witnessed these horrific events. Or, you know, just in the interviews, it reminded me of that question that they ask where? And they're like, how many drinks do you have a week? 1 to 2, 3 to 5, 7 to 9. But they were talking about, how many times was your life in peril? How many times were you actually at risk of being maimed or killed? And they got to 51 or more. And he was like, yeah, 51 or more. I mean, I got goosebumps. I just got my arms.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah, you're talking about, like, the PHQ9, right? Like some of these symptoms, rating scales that they ask you these questions.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, yeah, but it was, it was. It was in the movie look at the Goosebumps. And I was like, 51 or more. Like, I've never truly thought that I was going to lose my life. Like, death was imminent ever. So mine's zero. But someone that's had this 51 or more times, that was just mind blowing to me. It's.

[Marcus Capone]

It is. And you know, we talk a lot about the PTSD label because I think it's. I think it can be overused. And Amber's done a good job, I think, of explaining this where guys I worked with, I mean, we wanted to go overseas, right? Like, we wanted to fight for our country. We wanted to do the things that we had trained for for 300 days a year while we were gone. So I think I still really struggle, and I know many of the guys do is like, do I really have ptsd? Or is it some of the stuff we experienced when we were children? Maybe it was definitely some of the blast exposure. Like, there's a lot of data now showing that. Again, we talk about mental health versus moving into brain health. Maybe our circuits have been jacked up a little bit. And some of those parts of the brain are turning to trauma. 100% repeated microtraum, sub concussive blows. We talk about mild TBI, potentially worse than just say, having a single concussion. And these are reflecting themselves through depression, anxiety, panic attacks, potentially drinking or substance, you know, other substance use disorder.

[Gary Brecker]

So, yeah, what would you say, you know, having been so close to somebody that went through this, like, what. What are some of the warning signs that are not so obvious? Obvious? If someone has a rampant drug or alcohol problem or something, Very, very obvious. Is it, would you say, Is it them becoming more reclusive, withdrawn? Like, what would you say to the audience that's listening to this? That would be great ways to maybe throw up a flag that someone might need some help.

[Amber Capone]

Generally speaking, I would say everyone that comes to our program, for example, wants to get unstuck. They want to feel again, they want to live again. They want to be excited for something or feel like they belong to something. And so some of the red flags that I could identify in hindsight would be, yeah, becoming more isolated. Marcus has always been a high performer since I met him when he was 20 years old. He was very goal oriented, very active, and those things really dissipated. He no longer set goals or surfed, played golf. You know, things that used to. I don't even know.

[Gary Brecker]

This is like passion for life, kind

[Marcus Capone]

of going to the gym, like, simple, you know, simple things. I didn't have passion for anything. I didn't want to get out of bed. I mean, I had definitely diagnosed clinical depression, where for days I did not want to do anything. I didn't want to speak to anybody. I would turn my phone off. I wouldn't answer text messages. I have, like over 600 on my phone right now. Well, that's. That's a different reason.

[Gary Brecker]

Different reason why I come backwards, guys.

[Marcus Capone]

It's nothing personal. Anybody out there listening. But, you know, I really did have all the things. And that's what happens when you get into these dark places where you just don't want to do anything. And all the things that I really enjoyed just kind of went away.

[Gary Brecker]

So then how did the solution become ibogaine? Yeah, for you?

[Marcus Capone]

I almost want to say by accident, but I don't think anything happens by accident anymore. We've all starting to see that maybe this is all in motion for a reason. It was what was presented to us. So we had a friend who was in a similar. Let's say, going through a similar journey as I was in terms of many years of combat, actually many more years of combat than I had, and was just struggling with the same exact things that I was. So depression, anxiety, rage. And, you know, he had talked about suicide, and he had found ibogaine through his best friend who was a doctor, and said, you know, I was at a conference, and I talked to this doc who thought maybe this would be helpful to veterans that were struggling with. At the time, this is like 2017. So he didn't know. He just figured PTSD, I believe at the time, maybe traumatic brain injury or mild traumatic brain injury. And of course, the doctor who is a seal. Can I say his name?

[Amber Capone]

Sure.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah. So Dr. Kirk Parsley, who's a. Just a. We call him the sleep doctor. He's an incredible individual. He actually left the military because he couldn't practice what you preach. Right. Like, good for him, these guys, you know, Testosterone levels are 300 at 25 years old or 30 years old. There's an issue there, right. He needs hormone replacement therapy. Right. So all these things, some meditation, maybe breath work. Meditation sounds weird, right? The. The graybeards, as he called them, didn't want to listen to him, so he left and just started his own practice because he said, I want to help these guys. I want to help my brothers. And he got out, and he's doing it now. Really successful. Kirk. And thank you. If you're listening out there, document. But doc got him after talking to this quack doctor about ibogaine, said, hey, maybe you should try this. Maybe you should go to Mexico. It's legal down there, and it couldn't help, according to him. Well, it did. I mean, that first seal, that first seal.

[Amber Capone]

Dr. Parley helped one other seal. Now, do you remember there was a scene in the film with a gun and an empty bottle of whiskey? Okay, so a little bit more context on that scene. I had gone to bed and I woke up, middle of the night, and I heard men's voices. Marcus wasn't in bed. And I tiptoed down the hall and this guy was in our house. And I thought maybe he'd had a fight with his wife and he needed Marcus. But what really happened was he knew Marcus was in a bad spot when, with this gun and empty bottle of whiskey, and he came to help him. That's the only reason that he knew Marcus was struggling, because we would have never said that we were needing help otherwise. So when he came back from Mexico after having this experience, his wife reached out to me and said, this could help Marcus. And I approached. It was actually 2016. I approached Marcus about this and he said, that's absolutely crazy. No, we live in the most medically advanced country in the world. Nothing I can get in Mexico that I can't find here.

[Marcus Capone]

And that's at the point where I'd been on years of antidepressants, other mood stabilizers. I've been to, I think, five brain clinics up until that point.

[Amber Capone]

That was the point you started going to brain clinics because we knew he needed something. He had been on, you know, several different antidepressants. He was very reluctant for many years to, you know, going pharmaceuticals, finally relented, and then sort of went on this pendulum swing of zombie monster. Zombie monster. Like, it was just. There was nothing present about him.

[Gary Brecker]

No in between.

[Amber Capone]

No in between. Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

And two switches, you know, on and off. That sucks. That was it.

[Amber Capone]

So we knew that wasn't working. We knew talk therapy wasn't working. You asked me what were some of the red flags. I actually was noticing red flags that were unrelated to ptsd, if you will. Yet that was his primary diagnosis. And one of the things that I remember vividly was him trying to put Christmas tree lights on a tree. And he couldn't. He couldn't figure out where they stopped, where they started, where, you know, they plugged into the wall, how they plugged in together. This was like a neurological issue. And another instance, he was like, wide eyed, sweating profusely, trying to get out the door for a flight, and he couldn't, like, figure out how to pack everything. It was like he couldn't figure out how to, you know he wanted to and he just. It was pitiful.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Amber Capone]

So I thought this is a brain thing more than it is an emotional thing. Yet he's being treated solely with talk therapy and antidepressants and wondering why he can't get better. Like, this feels wrong, this feels. There's more to this story. Now, my dad happens to be a football coach. We met because my dad recruited him to play for him. And my dad always downplayed concussions. But one of his friends in the sale teams had taken his life and his wife had his brain autopsied. And it came back that he had interface astroglial scarring and what I'd heard to be stage one CTE chronic traumatic encephalopathy. And so I started doing this research and realizing that there's a linkage between, you know, some of these issues he was clearly experiencing and repeated head trauma. Marcus not only had 15 years of tackle football, he had 13 years working with explosives as a breed preacher. And so I started to realize maybe my dad, you know, maybe I should look beyond what my dad had to say about concussions.

[Gary Brecker]

Right.

[Amber Capone]

And I became terrified because it felt like, it felt like a terminal diagnosis, like there was no solution. There was not even a diagnosis, let alone a treatment or a cure. And so I thought, we've got to get him off of these pharmaceuticals and into more innovative things. Yeah, there's another part to the story that I won't get into now. But I had gone down this rabbit hole of advocating for our son who experienced a significant plethora of illnesses and

[Gary Brecker]

unrelated to everything he's gone through.

[Amber Capone]

Unrelated. But I was, I had begun to pull back layers. I had begun to advocate for my child and I was ready to do the same for my husband. I was at least not going to go down without a fight. And so I just started putting the pieces together and thinking, we' got to have a different approach. We've got to at least try. And so I had gotten Marcus into a clinic in California. There's doing some, you know, imaging and more functional medicine type treatments. He was also doing hyperbaric oxygen and magnetic therapy on the brain. And that was really all I had left because he said no to ibogaine. So I was like, okay, well let me try all these other more, you know, forward thinking approaches. And those really didn't help. In fact, in some ways I think it made him worse. And so it was just through sheer divine intervention that I re approached him about ibogaine. And I did it in a way that I'd never done it before, just love and grace. And I ditched the guilt and condemnation and shame that I had used previously. And I really just committed to meeting him where he was at.

[Marcus Capone]

So we were doing, you know, we were doing a lot of this. Yeah, of course, of course. And the more one side, you know, you kind of get what you receive. So the more one side gives, the other side gives. And so when Amber, I think, fell more into receive mode and allowed me to kind of meet her halfway, our relationship got better and I started to listen. Because initially when I first thought about ibogaine, it was a pure ego thing. Like, I'm, you know, cross my arms. I'm not doing that. It's a psychedelic, It's a drug. It's, you know, I grew up going to Catholic all boys Catholic high school. This is weird. This is, this is hippie shit. Yeah. But so then I started doing my own research. And the more you start going down the rabbit hole with the research, these things have been around for thousands of years, and in the last hundred years, they've actually have some research around it. And individuals were getting better. We're not talking about small percentages, like large percentages of individuals who utilize these in the proper way get better. And so the more I researched, the more I felt comfortable knowing, oh, wait a minute, this is not a drug. This is a medicine. This is a treatment that could potentially heal whatever I'm dealing with. And that's what allowed me to be a little bit more relaxed and accepting and say, okay, you know, this is something that I would absolutely look into. I'm a little bit like you probably. If you tell me it's going to make me bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, you know, hurt less like, I'll try it. Sure, let's, you know, I'm going to

[Gary Brecker]

give you the hippie shit.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah, even the hippie shit. And so in a roundabout, long way, winded way of answering your question, it was, that's how we got to ibogaine. Because it could have been another medicine. Right. It could have been something else. But that was the one that this individual turned his whole life around with. And so you trust your brother, right? You trust your friend?

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

And so I said, you know, I'll give this a shot.

[Gary Brecker]

I mean, some, some of the most, the people that I hold in the highest regard that respect the most have done this. And I've never had a negative comment come back about it. Some of the experiences are vastly different, but the outcome seems to be all very similar. I And, and the underlying theme is I now understand why I am the way I am. And I think that's a, that's a huge relief. Right. When you can identify, finally identify the villain. It's like, it's like having a flu, you know, for half of your life. And then a doctor says, oh, you have influenza A. You can take this and it will kill influenza A. It's like at least you know what it was, you know what it is. And what I found really fascinating was how different everyone's journey was. I mean, similar context, but very different journeys.

[Marcus Capone]

It's subjective.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, right.

[Marcus Capone]

Because we're subjective. I'm different. Excuse me, I'm different from you.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

Genetically, we look different. We're different from Amber. We're going to have different experiences.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

That's what you know.

[Gary Brecker]

And you know, it's a childhood trauma. That's it. From. Is it from your career? Is it from previous marriage? Is it from, you know, how you were raised? You know, what your life experiences from repeated head trauma could. There's so many things that put people in this position and they find themselves exactly where you were, where they went all through the conventional route. And I think the inability for conventional medicine to help a lot of people in this position is much bigger than we think. But people feel stuck in the system because there's not an alternative and certainly not one that their health insurance will pay for. And that kind of traps them into a certain vertical, too.

[Marcus Capone]

That's, that's a big deal. That's a whole nother thing we can talk about. When I was talking about commercialization. Yeah, you know, that's, we, you know,

[Gary Brecker]

what does one of these journeys cost out of pocket?

[Amber Capone]

We have special pricing for the veterans that we support through our program, but someone that is doing self pay would spend between $8,500 and $10,000.

[Gary Brecker]

Okay.

[Amber Capone]

Now when you compare that, I mean, ibogaine is actually used mostly for addiction disruption. When you compare that to a 30 day inpatient stay with, you know, the abysmal success rates, it's really a drop in the bucket. And it's a drop in the bucket to give someone their entire life back.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Amber Capone]

Because it does have this really innate ability to provide a different perspect perspective or concept of, you know, why, you know, these, these struggles exist. And then it's doing something really incredible on a physiological level as well. Which you also saw in this, the film with the Stanford study.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, you know, it was really, I, I think what the film does really, really well. Is it takes the context of what you're saying and it puts it in a visual way. Your animators did an incredible job. It was just, you know, listening to the voiceovers of dj, for example, just walking through the different points in his life and how he would tie something that happened as a child. I remember talking about the incident where, you know, he's mowing the lawn and his father, who was this big, imposing figure, came, he busted the lawnmower running over a root and the dad came sprinting at him and he just went into a rage and he picked his lawnmower up and literally just smashed it over his head to bits. And the fear that he felt and the rage that he saw in his dad's face, he felt it as if he was still the 10 year old version of himself. And then he was able to immediately draw forward like 25 years and see that he had smashed his daughter's dollhouse and he could see himself and he felt the pain through his, his daughter. And he was like, whoa.

[Marcus Capone]

And that's the power of it, is that you get into these. When you get into the experience, you witness potentially some of these incidences from different perspectives, first person, second person, and you can feel potentially the pain that you're causing someone. So for instance, I had a judgment experience during my experience that I was constantly judge and everything is like hyper, you know, it just, you know, compounds everything that's going on.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, like you're very aware.

[Marcus Capone]

You're so aware you're there. And I was judging Amber and the kids and it was like this weird thing that was going on, it seemed like in eternity. And I was judging and judging and judging, but I was doing the judging. And then all of a sudden the perspective completely shifted and I was judging myself. And so. And then that went on and I was feeling like the pain and the rage of this person. I was feeling the pain of my rage judging me. And I was getting judged as I was watching myself judge them. And I could feel it and it hurt. And I just said, that's it. I will never do that again. Like, I don't ever want Amber or our children to feel that pain that I'm experiencing right now in judgment. Because that's what they must be experiencing. Right. So I was feeling that and I came out, so I'll never do that again.

[Amber Capone]

What kind of super intelligence is that?

[Gary Brecker]

It's wild. I mean, I don't even purport to understand it.

[Marcus Capone]

I mean, we don't either trust. You know, I consider myself above Average intelligence.

[Gary Brecker]

But I mean, we've only scratched the surface of the power of the mind, you know, I mean, you know, they say we only use 10% of our brain capacity, but I think we've only scratched the, the, the surface of the mind. But what's really fascinating is you're actually using the best vehicle, which is your own mind, to heal the vehicle that's damaged, which is your own mind. I mean, what better resource than to tap into your own innate ability to heal yourself?

[Marcus Capone]

And that's it, Gary. And you do it every day. Right? You're.

[Gary Brecker]

You're right.

[Marcus Capone]

You're. You. You do use supplements and nutraceuticals and things. But they're supplements, right? They're not.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, right.

[Marcus Capone]

But the things you're doing are healing the body from the inside. And that's what this does. Some doctors say it takes what. This is what therapy is trying to get to. Right. Talk therapy, different cognitive behavioral therapies, trying to get to the root cause, trying to get in your mind and figure it out and have you see it. Ibogaine does that in a few hours. So you have to be prepared. Right. So what you're trying to work on with a therapist for five or 10

[Amber Capone]

years, which that judgment issue probably would have taken you five to 10 years.

[Gary Brecker]

Right about now he's coming into the solutions.

[Marcus Capone]

Remember to tell you I'm perfect, but think about trying to do that for five to 10 years, except solving it in six to eight hours.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

And that's the beauty of it. And that's the difficult part. I think that science or PhDs will have trouble wrapping their heads around where we're just saying, well, we just want to see the mechanisms of action. What part of the brain is it working on? But there's just other underlying things that are happening that make these subjective experiences so powerful and so healing, so life changing.

[Gary Brecker]

And how long did you go down with him?

[Amber Capone]

I didn't, but I did go down the day after and I had a complete freak out on the plane. What have we done? You know, you're so desperate to save the person you love. I also didn't think it would work because so many things hadn't worked.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, yeah. I'm on my way to Mexico to see my husband after a psychedelic trip. Like, is this really where we are? I can imagine what you're thinking.

[Amber Capone]

It was terrifying. And then everything started to come undone in my mind, like, what have we done? This is it. If I see him, I'm going to know immediately if it worked. If it didn't, I'm going to be devastated and I've got nothing left. Luckily, when I saw him, I knew immediately it had worked. And the first thing he said to me was, this is it. This is exactly what his former teammates needed.

[Gary Brecker]

How did you know? If you don't want me to answer.

[Amber Capone]

His countenance was back. He. I had known him since before he was a SEAL and the things I loved most about him had disappeared. So when I saw him again, it was like immediate. Exactly the way I remember.

[Marcus Capone]

You see a glow on individuals. I mean, we see it now, you know, thousands of individuals over that we've seen on a Monday that go through treatment and come out on a Friday. On a Monday. They just look, you know, some of them are gone. They're not even looking at you. Right. Because they can't. They're just, they're. They're really, you know, broken in some ways or just hurting or searching. Their eyes might be dark. They're not talkative, they're not happy, they're not making jokes.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, DJ's wife talked about that. His wife's name?

[Amber Capone]

Patsy.

[Gary Brecker]

Patsy, yeah. She talked about how she walked up, looked him in the eyes and knew

[Marcus Capone]

you could just see it. And we taught, we call it the glow effect. You can see the individuals almost literally looks like they have like he heat radiating from them. Their skin looks like they just.

[Amber Capone]

Well, their spirit has just been waiting.

[Marcus Capone]

They just reversed aged by 10 years. You just look good and healthy and your eyes are open and you're happy. And so you go on a Friday, say a group of five to six veterans that we give grant scholarships to in the van, maybe no one's talking to each other on Friday. They're telling jokes and they're exchanging numbers and they can't wait to see their wife and their kids and go do the things that they wanted to do. It's a dramatic change. It's just awesome just to witness.

[Gary Brecker]

That's amazing.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

And. And Sean's a part of this philanthropy too, right? Because it is. It was you and Shipley and everyone.

[Marcus Capone]

Yes, yes, Sean. You know, and again, we can speak about it because Sean is, you know, he's talked about on his show and he says he was in a similar place. Right. For years he didn't feel. Oh, yeah, he was just kind of just white knuckling it and going through it and, and absorbing the pain of everything, thinking like, this is normal. And, you know, he said, you know, he was right after his experience, he was out on a bench Overlooking just like, looking out at the ocean. He said, man, I haven't done this in 15 years. He's like, I haven't just stopped and looked and just been present and realized how, like, awesome life is. And earth is in the water. And just being outside and seeing green grass and blue sky, like, these are the things that, you know, they call it an awakening. It kind of wakes you up to, you know, people say, wow, I didn't realize the apple is so red or avocado is so green, or oranges smell so good.

[Gary Brecker]

Wow.

[Marcus Capone]

And that is not like, one person. That is everybody.

[Gary Brecker]

That is amazing. If your energy is low during the day, the problem usually started the night before. Sleep affects focus, mood, metabolism, literally everything. And most people never learn how to properly support it. Our free sleep challenge is April 29th and 30th, and it's designed to teach the basics of better sleep in a way that's realistic and easy to apply. If learning how to sleep better feels like the right place to start, we'd love to have you join our challenge on April 29th. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. So. So what would you say to, you know, families that are struggling with similar situations about this?

[Amber Capone]

I would say think outside the box. You know, that's one thing about our community is we take care of one another and we're taught to think outside the box. Now, Marcus is a really great soldier in that he did go to his appointments and he did take his medicines, but when he got off of pharmaceuticals going into.

[Marcus Capone]

Because you have to be off everything.

[Amber Capone]

You have to get off everything.

[Marcus Capone]

Do you have to titrate? And that's. That can be for individuals. Literally, we've had some that been on them for 15 or 20 years. Imagine titrating off of that or coming off them cold, which, of course, some individuals.

[Gary Brecker]

And also telling your VA doc, hey, I'm gonna titrate off of this and

[Marcus Capone]

go try to explain to a doctor that you're gonna go to.

[Gary Brecker]

Yes. You just gotta do it in silence. Yeah.

[Amber Capone]

So he. He hasn't been back on them. So, you know, that sort of unconventional. We're gonna just try. This really helped open up a life that I could only dream about. I was just trying to keep him alive, but didn't realize that he hadn't actually been living. And so, you know, the. The connection that we have now, the life that we're creating now, the people that we've been able to help through the work that we do would say the same. It's one thing to have a pulse, it's another thing to live.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah. And that started the kind of. The idea around vets was, you know, when Amber saw me, we embraced, we cried. I didn't even say, I'm better. She can just see that. I just said. Literally, the first words were, this is exactly what the guys need. Like, we have to figure out a way to help them. Someone paid for my treatment, and I knew that these are expensive treatments and it's not covered under insurance like you were talking about, because they're not FDA approved yet. Here. We're working on that. But I wanted to pay for somebody. Right. I wanted to get somebody that opportunity to heal like I did because I was in such a dark place. And I said, man, if there's so many individuals that I know and have very close friends that were in the exact same spot, and if they can't afford treatment, well, what's going to happen to them? And so that's. What was. That was the idea around. How do we do this and how do we pay it forward?

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. So what does life look for you guys? Like, for you guys now outside of Ivy game? Like, what. What are you building together? What are your. What are your goals? What sort of path are you on?

[Marcus Capone]

There's. There's a lot happening. Yeah. And this is.

[Gary Brecker]

There's a lot in that supplement bag right there that, you know, we're definitely going to talk about that, too.

[Marcus Capone]

That's hilarious.

[Gary Brecker]

I got to clear everything off, and

[Marcus Capone]

I brought that as just a funny, you know. I know. As a funny joke. I figured you'd get a kick out of it.

[Gary Brecker]

I did.

[Marcus Capone]

Just look at it. Throw that in the garbage. Oh, that stuff's really good. But anyway, we'll get to that. We have a lot going on. So we initially started vets and received our 501c3 charity status in 2019. And just from day one, I mean, it was just Amber and I, and we're working seven. You know, it's like building a business. So seven days a week, all hours of the night. That's why I have over 600 text messages I unread. And we've been doing that for years and working with Stanford and Ohio State and Hopkins and just studies and policy work at the state and federal level. And that's just going. We have a full team at vets, and Amber could talk more about that. She's the CEO. I chair the board there with some amazing individuals that help just kind of keep it on track. And then the success we had there. At Vets, I was approached by entrepreneurial individuals. One in particular, Grant Verstandig, who's just an amazing human. He dropped out of Brown his freshman year to build to fix healthcare because he had his 15th knee surgery and it just kept getting worse and long.

[Gary Brecker]

Fifteenth niece.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah. And this guy is like, you know, mensa smart, just brilliant and just tried to solve the problem through technology and communication, better communication with doctors. And he built a business called Rally Health and they partnered with United and the rest is history, of course. And then he approached and just said, dude, the work you're doing with veterans is like incredible. I'd love to support that work. But as an entrepreneur, how do we do this for the private sector? And so we started, we founded a company called taramind. I'm the founder and CEO along with Grant. And we figured out a way to take individuals who are struggling, that don't respond to antidepressants and introduce them to advanced mental health care through FDA approved treatments, right. Through tms, SAINT protocol, through IV ketamine. And we do that through employee benefit plans. So we're selling this to like JP Morgan and you know, the Googles of the world and Walmarts and the labor unions. Right. And so these are the groups that are just taking what we originally never even thought about, just starting out with veterans and now taking it to the private sector. And so that, and we're doing that all through data. Everything's driven by data. So we can, you know, we're identifying individuals through AI, through other, you know, kind of fragmented data sets. We're making sense of all that data through kind of longitudinal, structured data. And then we're showing these companies like, hey, you have all these individuals that have been on antidepressants for years. They're not getting better. You're wasting money. Right? Let's focus on these individuals. Let's get them to the right treatment.

[Gary Brecker]

Plus, they're also powder kegs. I mean, potentially some of them, 100%,

[Marcus Capone]

they're the ones that end up in the ER. They end up on disability. So we're getting hurting themselves, hurting other people. And then eventually, of course, you know, our vision of course, is like on the monitoring, we'll get into biomarkers. What's the right treatment for the right person at the right time. So that's, that's our, my commercial business, tarmind. And so we have vets, I have tar mind. What else? You know, I know you want to talk about a few other things that we have while we're not working 24 hours a day.

[Gary Brecker]

I was busy, dude. I thought I was busy.

[Marcus Capone]

So I talk about this. I mean, we, you know, we have a lot going on.

[Amber Capone]

We do have a lot going on. So Marcus and I have been in build mode, and that has. That has kept us trapped behind a laptop for the majority of the last eight years.

[Gary Brecker]

There's nothing like. Like building. I don't care what anybody says about being in business with your spouse. Best thing I. Best decision I ever made. Yeah, really best decision.

[Marcus Capone]

We love it. We don't ever fight everything. We agree. We agree on everything. And you can have a shitty day

[Gary Brecker]

at the office and have a great day at home. That's right. You can separate business from, you know, from your Price private life.

[Amber Capone]

It hasn't always been roses, but it's definitely been very gratifying. And I feel that it's really is, you know, my life calling, Marcus's life calling. And together we hope to break free from the laptop in 2026. The film has heightened the awareness around this topic, but really just broad mental health beyond the veteran community. And so we're actually launching a podcast this year.

[Gary Brecker]

All right.

[Amber Capone]

Yeah, later this week.

[Gary Brecker]

You already banked a few, right?

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah, we did. We've banked.

[Gary Brecker]

All right.

[Marcus Capone]

We've banked 10. We have two more. We had to work through some legal stuff that we done. So we'll shoot those two more in the next few weeks, but talk about it. What are we gonna. What are we doing? What do we hope to accomplish?

[Gary Brecker]

I'm passing through Dallas. I'd love to. Love to jump on there. I just invited myself onto the podcast.

[Amber Capone]

Please.

[Marcus Capone]

Well, we'll have to check. We'll have to check the team to make sure that you have to go through the DD process.

[Amber Capone]

We would be honored, but no, the idea is really just to continue speaking to this topic and bringing hope to people that they really can transform their lives. Marcus came home from a driving SC school, defensive driving school, very early on in his SEAL career. I think that the lesson he shared with me pertains to life and not only what we've done and are continuing to do, but to anyone. And basically what he said is, do you know why individuals wrap their car around the lone tree in a field or the lone telephone pole on the side of a road? Because that's what they're staring at when they start to spiral out of control, to spin out of control.

[Marcus Capone]

So a person overcompensates two or three times to steer towards the pole when they have so much Open room to just make one adjustment and you pass the pole. And now maybe you're. You're right. But we overcompensate because we're staring at that thing and we actually drive to the thing. So I told Amber this. Now she uses it for.

[Gary Brecker]

Amazing metaphor.

[Amber Capone]

I realized during our spiral that I was becoming so focused on the proverbial tree that I didn't realize I was surrounded by an open field of possibility. And where did I want to steer? So regardless of how crazy things had gotten in our personal life, I was just intent on steering towards where I wanted to end up, realizing that I had an entire field, and I. And anyone can do that.

[Gary Brecker]

It's a great metaphor.

[Amber Capone]

So it's just the. You know, just being in the business of encouraging people to transform their lives and drive where they want to go. We focus too much on the problem.

[Marcus Capone]

Andrew Huberman does a good job talking about it. He's been talking about it recently, about how individuals just. They get stuck in the loop. And part of this is mental health. But the loop is just. You keep thinking about the bad thing that's happening. I gotta raise money or my kids doing. Instead of driving to the open place to say, hey, let's. Let's get out of this loop, right? Let's move to the open space. The open space being healing, whatever that is, or whatever you're going on. And I think that's just such a good metaphor for really everything.

[Amber Capone]

And that's what the podcast will touch on.

[Gary Brecker]

That's so awesome in relationship.

[Marcus Capone]

I think you guys are gonna do

[Gary Brecker]

amazing with the podcast. So what else.

[Marcus Capone]

What else do we have?

[Amber Capone]

Yeah, well, we are working on a book. We've been working on that for a little while.

[Gary Brecker]

Oh, right on.

[Marcus Capone]

We've been approached by so many people to write a book, and we're just like, ah, you know, books are.

[Gary Brecker]

It's a lot tougher than people think.

[Marcus Capone]

It's toug. And it's also from our community, from the steel community. Although there has been a lot of books written, it was a bit shunned or even still a bit shunned. And I think there's a way to do it and a way not to do it. And I think we've done a good job. I've definitely done a good job because I don't love the spotlight. I'm decent at speaking and getting out there and doing it, but you can do it in a way where it's not about you. And there's so many individuals that are out there and they Write about me, me, me this, and I did this, and I did that, and. And I've been to war, and I never wanted to do that. And so we put off a book forever because that's not what we wanted to do. But what we've realized is the more we talk and the more we get out there, the more people hear our story, and it gives them hope. And so the book. There might be a chapter about the SEAL teams in the book, because people do want to hear that, and that stuff is exciting, but that's not what the book is about. It's really about our life and our healing and. And where we started. And it'll be a chapter. If there's eight chapters, it'll be a chapter probably on college life and growing up and maybe some about the sale teams. It'll just be more about what Amber and I are doing now and our lessons learned and how do we pay that forward. How do we help individuals? How do we help couples stay together? How do we help children deal with potentially their dad not being in the military, away at work, but maybe being a banker who's gone a few hours a week? So it's extremely relatable. And so we're super excited about that. And that's. We're working with folks.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, that's amazing. So let's see what we got in the bag.

[Marcus Capone]

Oh, man. So, Gary, I thought it'd be a great idea because we travel. Literally. We live in Dallas, but we're probably there not even half the amount of time. And Amber bought me these packing cubes for my clothes, but I wind up, oh, my gosh. Packing all my stuff.

[Amber Capone]

His clothes are packed in my overflow pink cubes.

[Marcus Capone]

I was like, you know what? I'm gonna bring this to show so

[Gary Brecker]

your wife's not the overpacker in this relationship.

[Marcus Capone]

He's gonna get a kick out of my travel stuff, and he's gonna also say yay to some of this stuff and nay to some of it. I just think it would be hilarious because, like you said, on the road, it's hard sometimes to get a good meal or do this or do that.

[Amber Capone]

Marcus is very committed to showing up for himself every day. He's very disciplined. He's very into this.

[Gary Brecker]

Is just got a very Navy SEAL vibe to it. Just already, you know. Right.

[Marcus Capone]

So, like, I mean, if you want to. If you want to go through this stuff here. Right. So, like, of course, we need, like, some of the best beef jerk you could find. I found this on a flight once, and I was like, oh God, perfect. As soon as I get home.

[Gary Brecker]

Huge fan, huge fan. We're gonna give that a 10.

[Marcus Capone]

I got some nuts. You may tell me.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, like, I mean, you know, give that a 10 as well. That's awesome.

[Marcus Capone]

Who doesn't need their electrolytes? Like I gotta put my electrolytes every morning. I have to have creatine because, you know, creatine, we're finding out, is really good for you.

[Gary Brecker]

Very good for you. Excellent cognitive function, of course.

[Marcus Capone]

You know, free range like the. Try to get the best protein supplements from some grass fed central market.

[Gary Brecker]

Grass fed way. That's great. Yep.

[Marcus Capone]

Actually the CEO, that founder of Momentous gave me some stuff so I have to, you know, take some of that.

[Gary Brecker]

Cool, great brand.

[Marcus Capone]

I got a little bit of fiber in here. Sometimes this gives me a little bit of a belly ache, but I have it.

[Gary Brecker]

And this is just pure fiber.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah, I get some pure fiber. I also have some collagen in there. Okay. Again, some of these things you might say more just throw that away.

[Amber Capone]

Not sure about that brand.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah, it's got some dairy, some, some.

[Gary Brecker]

What's this?

[Marcus Capone]

Five.

[Gary Brecker]

Oh, dairy digest.

[Marcus Capone]

Dairy digest. Ton of vitamins here. Rotary. I got omega 3s. I have more digestive enzymes. Coq 10. I take all this stuff for my liver. I've had some high liver enzymes come back like over the couple years.

[Gary Brecker]

And so milk thistle's great for the liver, you know.

[Marcus Capone]

So I've like, like got some stuff that I can just kind of clean out.

[Gary Brecker]

Ubiquinol form of CoQ10.

[Marcus Capone]

I don't know if you recognize this product.

[Gary Brecker]

That's a great one. That is a must. H2 tab.

[Marcus Capone]

You know, we're at home. We have our home system that we have all our. And it.

[Gary Brecker]

And it adds hydrogen to the water.

[Marcus Capone]

There you go. I got some vitamin D3 with K2,

[Gary Brecker]

which is also amazing and in fat because it is a fat soluble vitamin. So I don't know this brand, but appears to be well structured.

[Marcus Capone]

We can work on the brands. I do take a low dose, just have a little bit of thicker blood.

[Gary Brecker]

So, you know, regular therapeutic phlebotomy is really good for that too. Just regular, regular blood dumps.

[Marcus Capone]

There you go. Yeah, very good. I have to have some bone broth for the road, so I.

[Gary Brecker]

Excellent. Is this a powdered bone broth?

[Marcus Capone]

Powdered bone broth. It's delicious.

[Gary Brecker]

It looks like you haven't dug into this in a little while. This one's looking a little rusty.

[Marcus Capone]

That was a little rust.

[Gary Brecker]

Okay.

[Marcus Capone]

That one's a little like some of these.

[Gary Brecker]

I think they gave you that when you got out of the service.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah, yeah, that's like an mre.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. There's sentimental value to that somehow.

[Marcus Capone]

Oh, and then I take. I have two different types of methylene blue. I have a liquid kind of dropper at the house. I don't want to take the liquid on the road, so I have these. Yeah, these still turn my urine colors. So.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah. At least it's.

[Gary Brecker]

You can't get away with peeing on the toilet seat. That's the problem. My wife bust me every time because I used to be able to deny it, but now if it's blue. So anyway, I thought you'd get a

[Marcus Capone]

kick out of this stuff.

[Gary Brecker]

That is awesome. But we'll go through and tighten anything up that needs to be tightened up. Berberine. I'm a huge fan of berberine. Actually outperforms metformin as a glucophage in some. Some. Some studies. Great for blood sugar control.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah, that's great.

[Gary Brecker]

I love that you have a survival meal pack that you take with you, too, because if you're going on commercial flights, I mean, the garbage that they feed you on airplanes.

[Marcus Capone]

Hey, do you want these pretzels and crackers? No, I don't. They actually. Don't they actually get mad at me? Because I also. Sometimes I'm like, I don't need the hot towel either. Just like. We're good.

[Amber Capone]

Is it true that water ice coffee on airlines is just absolutely hideous?

[Gary Brecker]

Oh, my God. I mean, if you actually knew what they made that out of. First of all, it's all just straight tap water. But. And then.

[Marcus Capone]

And.

[Gary Brecker]

And the coffee is. Is really garbage, but it's mainly like, you know, they're making this all with just unfiltered tap water. And, you know, I tell people, if you know a few things that you can do to sort of biohack your life, but the. The first moment that you have any kind of disposable income, the first thing you should do is water filtration. Right. I mean, there's. We're what, 65 water. And if you look at the amount of toxicity that comes through the water supply, you know, not just fluoride, which is categorized as a neurotoxin, but chlorine fluoride. It's called pfas, these polyfluoroalkyls, trace pharmaceuticals, microplastics. You know, all of this stuff in something that is not immediately toxic doesn't mean that it's Necessarily harmful. It sounds like a scare tactic, but the truth is we're just trying to get around the system. But water filtration is huge. So, you know, the nice thing is in airports now, you can't carry bottled water with you on the, on the plane. You can get it on the other side of the security, but I'm seeing more glass bottled water choices. And most of them have the filtered refillable stations.

[Amber Capone]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

So if you just throw an aluminum bottle in your bag and then fill it up before you get on your flight, I mean, some, some of those containers will hold almost a liter of fluid. I mean, that's perfect. You know, while you're on a flight, I might even. The only thing I might add to that would be some, like a mineral salt, like, Like a Baja Gold.

[Marcus Capone]

I've heard, I've heard you talk about that.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, yeah, we just.

[Marcus Capone]

Would you replace the electrolyte with that?

[Gary Brecker]

Because those electrolytes are heavily focused on the big ones that the consumer knows about. Potassium, magnesium, sodium, which are certainly electrolytes, and you certainly need those, but you really need 91 trace minerals. Our soil has been so depleted, a lot of the challenges that we have are mineral deficiencies. And mineral deficiencies manifest themselves in all kinds of ways. Brittle bones, osteopenia, osteoporosis, migraines. Really interesting study in the Wiley Journal of Headaches about migraines and, and sodium.

[Marcus Capone]

I get them.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

And I've heard, I've heard you talk about Baja. And so now that we're here in person, I'm, you know, first thing in the morning, it's. The first thing I'm going to do is take. I. I get them throughout the day. Okay. I get them pretty regularly. Yeah. So.

[Gary Brecker]

Okay. So, you know, just remember that pain cannot come from the brain. Right. So even though it feels like the migraine is coming from your brain, that's not possible because the brain has no pain receptors, so it actually can't generate a pain signal. So even though you feel like the pain is coming from the brain, it's not. It's coming from the covering of the brain called the dura. And that's where it's fraught with pain receptors. The dura hates two things. It hates being stretched and it hates being contracted. And what determines whether or not it's doing that is, is the sodium gradient, the osmotic gradient. Great study in the Wiley Journal of Headaches. For anybody that wants to doubt that just by adding mineral salt to your water, you can very often fix migraines Go read that study. It was an inverse correlation between sodium and migraines. It's just giving the body the raw material it needs to do its job. So what does your supplement pack look like?

[Amber Capone]

Mine doesn't look like that, Gary.

[Gary Brecker]

She's got two. Mine looks similar to yours.

[Marcus Capone]

I have Stone her colostrum, which she just out today.

[Gary Brecker]

Oh, really?

[Amber Capone]

I'm, I'm guilty of being all in and what I'm all into, and I feel like building vets has really shifted my focus away from myself. It's something that I also hope to work on.

[Gary Brecker]

This look like you take pretty good care of yourself, so.

[Amber Capone]

I do, I do. But admittedly more for vanity purposes than.

[Marcus Capone]

We walk a lot. We love walking together. Yeah, we can go. Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

That's another thing I was going to ask you, like, what if, what are your, what are your daily ha. Because, you know, I, I built a business with my spouse as well, and by the grace of God, it was successful. So I know what that struggle is like. And there's no separating your business from your personal life. So if you're starting a business with your spouse, just know that you're going down that road. If you want protein to build lean muscle, but without the caloric impact or need to cut, but you need perfect amino. It's pure essential amino acids, the building blocks of proteins in a precise form and ratio that allows for near 100% utilization in building lean muscle and no caloric impact. So we build protein six times as much as whey, but without the excess body fat we normally get during bulking. This is the new era of protein supplementation and it's real. If you want to build lean muscle without having to cut, but you need perfect amino. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. But, you know, I, I, I think I've learned that the best relationships, in my opinion, are the ones that have gone through everything that's meant to tear them apart, but they're still together. It's like two imperfect people that just refuse to give up on each other, you know, and at no point would that hit the bliss point, right? But, but there's nothing better than succeeding together. That is, I think one of the greatest gifts for any marriage, any couple, is to have the wins and the losses going through those together. And one of the things I think Sage and I learned was we read a great book called Rocket Fuel. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, very simple book, but it's a quick read. But it Talks about a integrator and a visionary and the importance of having both, because I'm very much of a visionary, but I also create so much dust. Right. And I throw up so many ideas. And she's very practical, very organized, very regimented, and without. And so we would butt heads all the time in the business.

[Marcus Capone]

Very similar.

[Gary Brecker]

Do you guys need to read this book?

[Marcus Capone]

Man.

[Amber Capone]

Okay.

[Marcus Capone]

All right.

[Gary Brecker]

If your marriage is at 9, it just took it to a 10 rocket. I'll take 15% of everything that comes out of it.

[Marcus Capone]

But this is called rocket fuel.

[Gary Brecker]

So just a simple book. And what it did. It. It literally reframed the way we looked at each other. Right. I saw so much value in what she was providing, and she saw so much value in what I was providing, because she was like, you know what? I can't make the phone ring. I can't make people walk through the door. And I was like, I can't pay the bills. We would be absolutely broke, or our credit would be in the absence.

[Marcus Capone]

Oh, we need to read that.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. And it made me realize the synergistic value of both of us rather than just my independent value for bringing in all the business and coming up with all the ideas. And I was like, all you have to do is send the checks. And I oversimplified what she did. She oversimplified what I did. So it was great book. I don't give any marriage advice, but I will toss that one out there.

[Amber Capone]

We'll definitely read that. I think that we're the same in terms of just really complimenting each other's strengths and weaknesses.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Amber Capone]

And at one point, realizing that we were in such a scorekeeping contest.

[Marcus Capone]

Oh, gosh.

[Gary Brecker]

That's exactly what we were doing.

[Amber Capone]

Yeah. And such, like this, like, push, pull. We're headed towards the same finish line. We have the same goals in mind, but we were fighting each other all the way there. And it's like, if we just got behind one another and really celebrated and leaned into those strengths and weaknesses, how much more impactful could we be? And I think that's where we're at now.

[Marcus Capone]

We're each other's biggest fans now. I mean, we compliment each other. I mean, I tell Amber every day how perfect she is and how amazing she is. And you're. You know, I just. I can't tell her now.

[Gary Brecker]

I got it on tape and on video.

[Marcus Capone]

100%, if you ever need it. This woman is the one for sure.

[Gary Brecker]

You know, it's funny. We did exactly the same thing, because what I found we would do is we would always kind of want to prove the other one wrong. So if I had an idea and she said no and I did it anyway and it failed, then she would hold it against me. If it succeeded, I would hold it against her. And then what I realized was if we would just do these together, then what happens is the wins you celebrate together and the losses are sort of outside the castle walls. Yeah, because you both made the decision to take us a step forward in one direction or another. If it doesn't work, there's no finger pointing because you both agreed on it. So now that becomes something that's, it's, it's not a bone of contention anymore because I didn't decide to do it and you said no or you decided and I said yes. You know, it's it. And then when you make a decision and it works out, then you both celebrate the victory, so you end up only celebrating the wins and the, and the losses are kind of outside the castle walls instead in there where they poison everything else. And it was such a simple thing for us, but it made a massive difference in how we operated together. And it also was the tipping point for our business. It just skyrocketed.

[Amber Capone]

I believe that. I do. And I appreciate you sharing that. I think too, the work that you're doing is so important. It's just so fundamentally important. The work that we're doing is helping give people their lives back. Same for you guys. And I think that there's just this innate responsibility in sort of answering the call. I don't feel like we stumbled into this. I feel like we are, you know, on a, on a divinely appointed mission that is such an honor to serve, so we might as well serve, you know, together.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, well, I'm, Listen, I, I, I think what started as, you know, a, a wife's silent struggles and a husband's silence struggles, you have had the courage to, you know, put out there in the public domain and be vulnerable, which led to this documentary, which is an incredible documentary. I mean, I'll be honest, I didn't expect it to be as good as it was.

[Amber Capone]

Oh, thanks.

[Gary Brecker]

And it was, it was, it was well narrated, it was well orated, it was entertaining. I found myself being very curious about, you know, what was going to happen. I've identified with each of the, the of, of the parties. It may, may it shed more light on the discussion that I had with DJ Shipley, which was one of our top podcasts. I only wish I, like I said, I Wish it had come out earlier, before I. I'd been on the pod with him or had him on the pod. But what I. What I really found was how applicable it is to everyone, even though it was the seals. You know, I think men in general want to suffer in silence, and I think a lot of wives will very often hit that wall and they'll leave before.

[Amber Capone]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

You know, and. And the Solution could be two steps away. Right. You're on the 98 yard line, and maybe you only need to move two more yards.

[Amber Capone]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

You know, and the fact that you guys did it. It and succeeded, and you can see how many people it's inspired, you know, not the least of which are the characters in the. In the documentary. It's an absolute must watch for anyone, because there are the people that are not struggling, that know someone who's struggling. There's people that are struggling because I don't think anyone watching this podcast now does not know a single person in their sphere of their life.

[Marcus Capone]

You say that all the time. Mental health, brain health, doesn't. Doesn't discriminate.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

It's either you or it is one degree of separation. We're starting to find that out. I. If I'm speaking to a room, I always say, hey, raise your hand if it's.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

If it's not you. That's why you don't have to raise your hand.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

But if it's one degree of separation, almost at least half the individuals usually more raise their hand, say, oh, yeah, I know somebody. It's either my child or my spouse or my friend.

[Gary Brecker]

And that's how you really move the needle. So congratulations to you both. Thank you. So, you know, I always wind down my podcast by. By asking my guests the same question. I'll ask it to you individually, and if you've watched it, you know, this is coming. But there's no right or wrong answer to this question. But what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

[Marcus Capone]

I knew you're going to ask this question.

[Gary Brecker]

I actually got asked it on a podcast, and I was like, wait, that's not fair. That's my question. And then I. I struggled.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah, well, I tried not to struggle. And I thought I had a good answer last night, but I'm gonna. I'll talk through it because it has to do with curiosity. And I think being curious is one of the. One of the biggest attributes that we can have as individuals, as human beings. And why I think curiosity is so important is because we're stuck in our ways, we're stuck in our old ways. We never change, we never evolve, we never innovate. We never progress. And if I was stuck in my ways, I would have never gotten better. I would have listened to the doctors that I've always been told for many years from when I was a child, that if you just listen to your doctor and you do this this way, that you're supposed to get better. And as a good soldier, I wasn't getting, you know, I was doing everything I was supposed to do, but I wasn't getting better. So for me, being curious and wanting to get better and thinking unconventionally and trying to solve the problem through curiosity is what enabled me and Amber to be where we're at today. So I think curiosity is the first thing. As an ultimate human, you can always be curious. As a lifelong learner, I think we should just never stop. And for me and Amber, we have that type A personality. I always say, a close friend of ours always say, send it. And I love that because I struggle with the term balance, and I don't. I think it's very difficult to be balanced where you're trying to succeed and excel in life. And so if you're getting into something, if you want to be a good student, you want to be a good podcaster, you want to be a good seal, a good banker, a good teacher, you have to send it, you have to go all in. You have to. Right? And especially early on in life, you have to make sacrifice, right? And I. And it. It. It's earlier on in life, it's easier to sacrifice because you can make mistakes. You may not have a family, you may be able to focus on yourself a little bit more as you get older. You can have some balance, use your network, use your influence that way. But you got to send it, you got to go all in. And it's the only way to.

[Gary Brecker]

To.

[Marcus Capone]

To get things on. You know, hard work, determination, all that stuff is very real. And so for me, that's what it means to be an ultimate human.

[Gary Brecker]

And how about you?

[Amber Capone]

All right, well, Marcus told me that this was coming, so I have. I have. I have given it a bit of thought. And there are a couple of things, actually, that I didn't say in the podcast that I would like to touch on in terms of being an ultimate human. But my real answer is going to follow these two things. Number one is that when I approached Marcus in love, love, because I had given myself love and grace, and. And really, by the grace of God, had ditched the resentment that had built up over years, he responded. So I think there's so much power in love, and as humans, we need to feel that. I think that real strength is in vulnerability. So, you know, when you say, like, big Navy SEALs are on camera being so raw and honest, that's why this is resonating with people, because it's. It really is the. The most organic form of strength. But I think that what really I feel it is to be an ultimate human is to consider this. We think that we're human beings in search of spiritual experiences, but we're really spiritual beings having human experiences, I think. And so I think to be an ultimate human, you really have to tap into that spiritual feeling of love and this radical vulnerability.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. I think that's where true connection is made. And connection and community, we know, are one of the fundamental necessities to a long, healthy, happy life. So that's a great answer. Thank you. Thank you guys both for coming on the podcast.

[Marcus Capone]

Gary, thank you.

[Gary Brecker]

Amazing.

[Amber Capone]

Thank you.

[Gary Brecker]

This is gonna. This is gonna touch a lot of lives. I will put this in the show. Notes, links to their contact. Where does my audience find you guys if they want to find you?

[Amber Capone]

So the capones.com.

[Marcus Capone]

very simple.

[Gary Brecker]

Easy, dude.

[Marcus Capone]

No one will forget that we grabbed that domain name. We made sure.

[Gary Brecker]

Oh, you got the capones.com.

[Amber Capone]

we sure did.

[Gary Brecker]

Wow. I'm surprised that one.

[Marcus Capone]

A few people, but it worked.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. We had to threaten a few people, some payoffs, but, hey, you're. You're Navy seals.

[Marcus Capone]

Here we are.

[Amber Capone]

And then, of course, our organization is VET Solutions.org online, and we didn't talk much about vets, but we are sponsoring veterans five or six per week, every week.

[Gary Brecker]

Wow.

[Amber Capone]

Who are going to Mexico to receive the same opportunity that Marcus did. And we're having tremendous success. So the organization really is the lifeblood of the film and of our lives. So. Vetsolutions.org yeah.

[Marcus Capone]

And it's really important to talk about that. We, you know, we. We live and live and die by philanthropy, and our mission at Vets continues on by individuals that are willing to partner with us, to support us. And so, you know, if individuals want to get involved, as Amber mentioned, you know, you know, look into what we're doing and reach out. Oh, yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

My audience definitely will.

[Marcus Capone]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

So, Marcus neighbor, thank you guys so much for coming.

[Marcus Capone]

Thank you. It's been an honor. This was great. Yeah. Thank you.

[Gary Brecker]

And until next time, guys, that's just science.