← Therapy and Theology
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- [00:02]
A
Listen to this review we recently just received from a listener named Nikki. She writes, I discovered the Therapy and Theology podcast during a frantic Google search. In the midnight hours, I was searching for answers to the questions that kept my aching heart awake. I felt terrified and abandoned, but not by God. This podcast was my lifeline when I thought I was going to drown. You see, it's generous people just like you that help reach women like Nikki with the truth of God's word when they need it the most. If you'd like to give a gift today so therapy and theology can reach even more women in their desperate moments, go to proverbs31.org givenow welcome to today's episode of Therapy and Theology where we help you work through what you walk through. I'm your host, Shea Hill, and I'm joining you right from our home recording studio where we capture so many of your favorite episodes. Today you're in for a real treat because our resident counselor, Jim Kress is joining us to talk about all things mental health. As always, you're going to love his wisdom as you listen to this season on Health Check. It's really for adults, but one of the biggest concerns I hear from youth pastors, teachers and especially parents is this how do I really help the young people in my life who are struggling emotionally and mentally? If that's you, you are not alone. That's why I want to tell you about the Youth Mental Health Coach Program from the American association of Christ Counselors and Light University. It's a biblically based, clinically excellent training that equips you with practical, real world tools to support youth and their families. You'll learn how to recognize 15 of the most common mental health challenges that young people are facing today, including anxiety, depression, digital addiction and emotional regulation. You'll also learn how to respond with care and when to step in and when to refer to a professional. Right now you can receive a full tuition, scholarship and get started for just a one time $54 technology fee. If you're in ministry, education, counseling or simply feel called to help, this training gives you the confidence to make a real difference. Learn more and apply@mentalhealthcoach.org or you can visit the link in our show notes below. And before we jump in, here are a few reminders. Number one subscribe and receive episodes straight to your inbox by clicking on the link in our show notes below. Secondly, we are launching a brand new podcast exclusive segment in 2026 called Listener Mail and it's brought to you by our friends at Compassion International. These segments will include a question pulled from one of our listeners just like you, and an answer from either Lisa, Jim, or Dr. Joel. Tune in on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. And make sure you listen all the way through to the end so you don't miss it. And lastly, we want to know how therapy and theology is helping you work through what you walk through. So leave us a review or a comment on YouTube and tell us all about it. Okay, now onto today's conversation.
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B
I'm so happy to be with our resident counselor today on the podcast, Jim Kress. Jim, how are you today?
- [03:20]
C
All good. And I hear a little hoarseness in my voice. I feel fine. So if I don't sound like I normally do, then I'll do the best I can. But I've got good mind today and I feel great.
- [03:33]
B
Good, I'm glad to hear it. Thank you for doing this today, Jim. We're going to be talking about mental health. We're in this series as we're looking at a specific area of our life every single week and talking about how we can pursue the most healed, healthy whole yielded to Jesus self that we can be in that area. And so when we were brainstorming this season and the topic of mental health came up, knew that you were the guy I wanted to talk to because if I've heard it once, I've heard it a hundred times on this podcast. As you've said, mental health is a commitment to reality at all cost. So while that is part of being a mentally healthy person, how would you define mental health beyond that?
- [04:16]
C
Well, you know, I love that quote that's from Scott Peck in the Road Less Traveled. I'm also mindful of a person I spend these days every morning with by the name of Oswald Chambers in my utmost for his highest, the classic devotional. And he says a line that is profound that it is impossible to be spiritually mature and emotionally immature. Oswald Chambers, if people don't know they ought to google him or chatgpt him. This is a man who died very young at age 43. But in his wisdom that came out, he was well trained psychologically, certainly spiritually, in the word of God philosophically. And he found that kind of in a wholehearted or holistic approach that we don't just do the Bible or just do psychology or just do counseling. And so I do not separate ever mental health issues from spiritual health issues. And that dreaded thing that I've done, maybe some of you have done of a spiritual bypass like here's the thing and you don't really address it could be conflict in relationships, depression, anxiety. And you just spiritually bypass and put Bible verses like the word of God, which I love, and put this over the issue. And yet this, this Bible both is the foundation of and the top of the container for our mental health issues. And she had to say one thing more real quickly. It's a simple thing I use a lot and people in the counseling field use. Mental health issues are not the same as mental illness issues. We are currently at the time of this recording and it's not going to go away anytime soon. Just watch the news. We are in a global mental health pandemic. It's terrible out there. People are in the amygdala, lower part of the brain, the limbic system and into fight flight freeze all the time. So I just, when I want to look at mental health issues and say, hey, we all have them to a degree, where do they come from and what am I doing about them?
- [06:28]
B
Yeah, I know this time of year, this like quarter one time is really difficult for people for a number of reasons which I know can also contribute to mental health issues. But what are some of the common issues or some of the threats that you see that are leading to some of these mental health issues that you're seeing in your practice or even just in your personal life?
- [06:54]
C
Some people have called what I'm about to say and I'm fine with it, gym isms. I lead retreats in various parts of the country, mostly therapy type retreats. We have of course, our Haven Place retreats. I'm leaving right after this podcast. We start four days with about 100 women. And so these are not meant to be tried or cute. They're quotes that are important. Some are for me, some are the spirit of God's given me and some are out there in other places. Right. This is a big one. When you to respond to your question, what I don't work out in my life, I later have a high chance that I will act out in my life if there is depression, for example. Well, think about in depression, not ignoring the biochemical realities or issues like bipolar or other things, but in depression, as we've taught on therapy and theology and it is in the Surviving Unwanted Divorce book, there are stages of grief and then stages of healing. So there often instead of going after the depression and just treating it with medicine, which can be helpful, what is the weight? What is depressing? What is weighting me down both currently and historically, you've Heard me say sometimes if it's hysterical, what's going on, it's historical.
- [08:12]
B
That's right.
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C
So that idea is instead of going after it, I want to go and where do we go in Scripture, Proverbs 20, verse 5, the purposes in a person's heart are deep waters. So a person of understanding that means you just as a good friend over coffee, a person comes alongside or you can do it for yourself, goes down deep and draws those purposes out. Is there anxiety? I believe you have to be careful here. I don't believe people have anxiety. I'm diagnosed with it, no joke. But what I do is I believe I and it's different. I experience anxiety and into that fight, flight or freeze thing and what's happening in this moment. So understanding what when I've had a panic attack on an airplane, what was going on before I did my work around that, including in therapy, some deep therapy. I could trace it now exactly what was out of alignment in my life. No big giant sin, but being overworked, no real margin in my life. So that anxiety attack landed in a way that I believe it was from God, certainly allowed by God. And what I learned after a lot of therapy and I was therapist at the time, what might be very gently, what might be out of alignment in my life, thin membrane there of just the anxiety or panic attack hits and as though I was primed for it. If depression is there, there are people who have seasonal affective disorder known as sad. My wife has that. She just knows the end of August. It's here. Her bigger focus, herself as a board certified life coaches. Okay, it's there, it's biochemical, it's involved in sunlight and the lack thereof. What do I do about it? So whatever the mental health issues, you can go down the line of addiction, ocd, even post traumatic stress, ptsd. It's there. Always look backwards for a moment. Where might this be coming from? Now that's the rear view mirror. But get your eyes in the windshield of life, which is bigger. How do I want to live with what I call intentional resiliency? Regular resiliency is I have coffee here. If I tipped it over, I pick it up quicker. Wouldn't even think about it. Intentional resiliency is a phrase I've coined. It is I don't want to face this. I want to step up. I get to get in the arena of life. I will go out. God is with me. The very real presence of Christ and his holy spirit is with me. And intentionally I rise up and go face Any mental health issue there is.
- [10:46]
B
That's so good. I love how you're talking about being out of alignment because while a lot of people may not say.
- [10:55]
C
I have.
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B
Mental health issues or I'm struggling with my mental health, maybe some would. I think a lot of us can relate to some things in my life are starting to feel out of alignment. And as I was thinking about preparing for this conversation, Jim, I was just thinking about some of the things that if they are left unattended, some of the things that even you mentioned, overworking being one of them can lead to some greater mental health challenges. And so I'm just going to share some of those. Some of these areas that I think can get out of alignment, that, that whether you're predisposed maybe to struggling with mental health or not, I think that these can set themselves up to be threatening to living in that healthy place.
- [11:38]
C
And share with your wisdom, which I know you have. This is not being patronizing. You're incredibly wise. I know you've done your own work and that's just go to a coach or a friend over coffee and talk about your life story or whatever with that. Is that out of alignment piece. Looking at it and looking at it too with some really good self compassion. A great counseling word is attunement, even self attunement. Am I just checking in every day and not condemning myself? And so where am I? What's going on? Where might this be coming from? I just love the wisdom that you just shared there because it, it points to good compassion.
- [12:17]
B
Thank you. That's great. I think these are maybe some areas that would just be good for all of us to kind of take a little, a little check in with, maybe give ourselves a report card. Not from a place of shame, of course, but from a, like you said, a place of self compassion so that we can really make sure we're giving our mental health the best fighting chance it can. Okay, so one of these categories would be like stress and life pressures. So you mentioned overworking. I think also like caregiving demands, like family member demands, or like burnout from the constant responsibility, just the pressure and stress of life. Another one of those I have is like social and relational factors. So it could be a social calendar that is way too overpacked or quite the opposite where you're just in deep loneliness and social isolation. Maybe you feel like you're missing like meaningful connection with other people. You could have like a lack of boundaries, be in a deep season of people pleasing or just feeling like unseen unsupported or misunderstood. And this other one I think I feel like we're starting to get better at talking about and that is like lifestyle, physical factors like sleep, physical activity, nutrition issues, physical health conditions that aren't treated, lack of sunlight, things like that. I feel like we're talking more about that in this, like kind of protein obsessed era of life that we're in.
- [13:47]
C
I'm in that one.
- [13:48]
B
Yep, I am too. And then some others too. But those three categories I feel like are really the most. But like the digital and environmental influences, like too much social media, always on a screen or just going from, you know, a small screen to a big screen at work and then going home and watching TV on a bigger screen. Like those kind of things underlying, like psychological, emotional things, like the way you talk to yourself or perfectionistic tendencies, the way that we're coping with things. And then just overall, like a lack of support, maybe a lack of support system. As you've even talked about sitting before someone at coffee or a family member and just being able to share like, hey, this is what's going on in my life. Which that is kind of tied back to isolation. But these are just some categories that I see that could kind of be ways that we could check in with ourselves or with our personal counselor or a friend as we are kind of tending to our mental health. Is there anything that you want to add to any of those categories?
- [14:51]
C
Well, you have covered wonderfully so much there. And my brain, as you began to share these, went first to cortisol levels in the body, stress hormone, and you get into fight, flight or freeze. You've also referenced in People Pleasing, which is another trauma reaction called fawn fawning, which I'm literally trying to people please. Well, if you're people pleasing, the number one person you're really trying to please is yourself. I'm okay. And you know, we've said this, I'm sure here before, even Lisa, I'm okay if you're okay. Are you okay? Because if I'm okay looking for an external solution to really my internal problem might last for a minute, but not long. But these cortisol levels, and then we have the other one, which America now knows so well, the dopamine levels like constant scrolling. Even our phones will come up and say it's how much screen time you've had, but the idea. And it will hit dopamine because that's so much of a search chemical. What am I going to find? And then, believe it or not, a person can get into what we've taught several times here and in the divorce book on the victim triangle and that is I can go in and say, well, how in the world am I having a little bit of a victim mentality here? You've never done this. But I've done this. I really have. Folks, you ever gone out and think that's pretty good post? It could be something about family or vacation, a pretty hip, slick and cool picture on socials. And why didn't these people like it? They like someone else. I see this by the hour and some people come in and go, what do you want to talk about? You know, therapy. I'm really mad with a good friend or a family member because I saw they went out that day and liked a bunch of other photos or post and not mine. And I get it. I said you can be disappointed with that. I talk myself into a good friend and with God or journalists. Why does this have so much power of an icon or a thumbs up or a heart or which one? But we're more and more have this dopamine thing getting hits. And also it can feel like at least again non pejoratively friend friends on Facebook really will be capped out at 5,000 friends. Are they really friends? And maybe they are and all like that. But it can feel and can kind of for a moment numb out my apparent need for social interaction. Because it feels in at one level it is, it's called social media. But that is not the same as going out for coffee and you and I have a great conversation, which is real. What we're doing right now, it's not the same as that then interacting. Even if you were on video or facetime it will feel like oh, I'm really have a relationship here. But we're not. At least in the biblical and psychological way, we're not really connecting face to face. Right. Even if it's FaceTime or Facebook. So I think that's an issue. Watch out for dopamine over firing and watch which can be numbing and watch out for cortisol levels that rise with stress stressed. If you're stressed right now, my friends take it, write it down, stressed, spell it backwards, it's the word desserts. So if I'm stressed, often I will not reach for something really healthy. I'll reach for something that's available, accessible, I can get now and often it won't be a good selection.
- [18:17]
B
Yeah, I'm glad you are digging a little bit deeper into stress, Jim, because I feel like the average everyday person that could maybe Come into your office or maybe just is listening today. I would be tempted to guess that a lot of us probably feel like there's a certain measure of stress that is almost just required for human living. I think a lot of that I see in my season of life of friends is like the early stages of motherhood and they're trying to figure out how to be working moms. And so they are have to. They're fully responsible for these two major areas of both home and work and trying to make those two things work. Or their children are growing now where at the age they have their own sports and social calendars and events that they are responsible for getting them to, or financial stress, just the cost of living. Not even to live extravagantly, but just to do, you know, what it feels like are the normal things that all of us would consider, you know, are like normal human experience. What would you say to the person that maybe would come into your office and say, my mental health is struggling, but I almost feel like stress is just part of living in 2026. What would you say to them?
- [19:40]
C
Well, I was very intrigued as you listed the list. So literally meeting. I would not just think about each stressor in its own independent, unilateral reality or environment. I would think about just ponder the composite effect of that, the compounding of that. And I was just smiling when you said in this. And a new mother. And some mothers with breastfeeding or just life are having a lot of oxytocin sucked out of them. It's good. And it can be like, wow, I feel drained. It can be the stress of midnight or middle of the night feedings or whatever. Maybe I'm not as social as I'd like to be. We could keep going down the line, not just each individual stressor, but now the compound nature of that. And we're not even talking about a little depression in there. Certainly we are talking, but we're not specifically right now talking about anything postpartum, postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, or could be a postpartum psychosis. The woman says, hey, get away from all this counseling stuff. I feel like I'm going crazy up in here. And then her husband might think, yeah, I'm scared. It feels like I don't know what to do. Which is very classic. So just add up the compound nature of these things. I literally, as I said, would just take them before you even go to counseling or sit with a friend, write them down and kind of like this, plus this, plus this. Accept. If we imagine there was a hundred percent or just a 10. 1 through 10 scale add up like okay, I'm going to add these up, I'm at a 10 or I'm at 98% with that. And know that life will have stresses the word of God in this world. We're all going to have some time of struggles, of tribulation and we must not throw the total word out. If somebody goes and gets on a treadmill and does some good self care, it can feel they are literally stressing their body in a healthy way in this world we're going to have stressors. I just want to look at, if I am not addressing each stressor, look at the compound nature of that and then getting outside of myself to have a meaningful conversation. It may be a married, young or middle aged mom who says, hey, no offense, but my husband just can't go there with me like a good girlfriend can. That's information. And sometimes what we do as therapists, we're paid friends, we're paid listeners and, and we interact and we say my line I use a lot is someone says, look at all these stressors. Does this make sense? And I go, everything you said makes sense just to be heard, right? My hub, hub, I hear you, I understand you and I believe you. You can do that friend to friend and it's me. I say concluding comment on this point, friends, it's our job. It is my job, it is Shay's job. It is your job to reach out and say, hello, I need help. I wouldn't just have it with one person. What if, if they're busy or something and never say can I get a minute? I realize I would probably love 12.7 minutes of conversation initially. Do you, you know you've heard this line from me. Do you have it to give? Oh, then is there a time we may. Because often what that is is friendship coffee cup counseling. Just sit and be with me and tell me I'm not crazy.
- [23:11]
D
Hey everybody, Dr. Joel Muttamali here. I'm pausing today's conversation real quick to tell you something very important. One of the biggest things concerns I hear from listeners, youth pastors, teachers and especially parents is how do I actually help the young people in their lives who are struggling mentally and emotionally. If this sounds familiar, I want to share something powerful from our friends at the American association of Christian Counselors and Light University. They've put together the Youth Mental Health Coach program, a biblically based, clinically excellent training designed to equip you with real world skills to support parents and Caregivers navigating youth mental health challenges. This course walks you step by step on how to recognize 15 of the most common mental health struggles that young people are facing today, including anxiety and depression, to digital addiction and emotional regulation. You will also learn how to relate to them, how to respond to them, and when it's necessary to refer them to a professional. The best part, you can claim a full tuition scholarship right now. Just pay a one time technology fee of $54 to get started. Whether you're in ministry, a teacher, counseling, or just feel called to help, this training gives you tools and confidence to make a difference in the lives of youth and their families. To learn more and apply, Visit mental health coach.org.
- [24:35]
B
Yeah, that's so good.
- [24:37]
C
You got to reach out and say, hey, I'm not doing well.
- [24:40]
B
Yeah, I think that's so good and I know that that's so hard and challenging. I, I really like how you mention, not just saying I'm stressed, but really taking inventory of the individual stressors and kind of looking at those categorically and almost. You could maybe even score yourself of like, okay, on a range of 1 to 10, where am I at in this area? And then that may give you some guardrails that you. Or some handles even, that you feel like you could enter a conversation with a friend and feel like you're not just gonna word vomit, that you actually have some things that you want to share. Something that you said a little bit ago when we were talking about being out of alignment, when you were talking about people pleasing, was holding this thing up to the light and saying, why does this have so much power over me? And although our friend Dr. Joel Mutamali is not on today's conversation, I know something he's talked a lot about is idolatry. And I think that when we're out of alignment, the affections of our heart, things are getting misconstrued. And so when things are out of alignment, we start to hold certain things as a priority over the Lord or our relationship with the Lord, or living up to the person that he has called us to be and we start giving in to some of maybe these other individual stressors. So, Jim, I know you talk a lot about shame in your counseling work, but how can we go straight to the Lord after we've taken inventory of our life, after we've taken inventory of these individual stressors? Instead of turning to shame, we're gonna ask a friend to go to coffee. But also, how do we kind of box this out with the Lord how do we go to him and have him tend to us in a difficult season of mental health?
- [26:24]
C
Well, I love the wisdom that was stated in the very question. Often that happens with people. I will say, hang on, there's wisdom in the question you ask versus giving an answer. And Joel and I use this a lot in presentations. We don't call it question and answer. We call it question and response. So I will respond wisdom in what you've said about what I call going vertical. So the idea when something is going on accessibly to our minds, I can access this quicker, is I'd rather go horizontal, phone a friend and all like that. And fine, if you do that, I just like to know, out of 10 times, when something comes up for you, how many of those times? First, as it talks about in the Book of Kings, first. Second Kings talks about, first, seek the counsel of the Lord and by yourself in what I call a silo. In your silo, to say, I want to seek God's counsel first. I don't know how much you all know. I know you know, a lot is just in this book alone. That's the idea of being in this word consistently, not perfectly meditatively memorizing scripture, your word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against you? So there are resources there. And then to go vertical, you know, people say, do you pray every day? My answer to me is, oh, yeah, for specific things. People pray for us as we came down to do this podcast. And it's like, in that moment, what's the point of it? I have gotten old enough that my point in prayer, if nothing else, is, a, it's commanded in scripture, and B, I'm just saying, God, would you help me? But I won't chokehold God, you better take me out of this. Now, the word for lust, which is the same word for desire in the Greek, in the New Testament, it's empty. It means an empty cup, a crucible, epithumia. And why are we talking about Greek here? It's important. So what happens is loneliness, depression, anxiety, even sexual lust, whatever it is. The itty bitty pity committee, you know how we've talked about that poor me that will feel the emptiness of the cup and sinful, unhealthy ways will try to fill the emptying of the cup. And I say appropriately, feel before you fill in that moment to go to God and say, look at Psalm 51. Have mercy on me, O God, pleading with God, if there's any way, let this cup pass from me. Three Times take this thorn away from me. Don't be going, I would say, do not be going constantly on the horizontal with people, places or things to fill a need that first ought to be addressed vertically. And that is just becomes a practice in faith. We call it orthodoxy is what you believe. Orthopraxy is what you put into practice. Right? That's the piece of saying mindfully, okay, and then go wild. Go, go horizontal. Call as many friends as you want, it's fine. But can I say, God, have mercy on me. God, help me, Lord, search my heart, search me, know me, God. Psalm 139. There's plenty to do vertically. And last thing, we all know this. Let us not be foxhole Christians or 911 Christians that I don't go vertical till a crisis hits my life. You are training with neuroplasticity, what we would posit negative neuroplasticity of your brain. That God, I don't pick up the phone to call you. I don't pick up your word or really pray until 911 and you've wired your brain. What I want to be is proactively that I got a rhythm and a flow with God doing this regularly. You know, how you know that that's what you want in a marriage? The only time we really talk is when we want to have sex or only time we really talk. If there's a problem in the finances, we ought to be in a flow. Intimacy, intimacy. We want to do that in relationships. Hey, I never call my friend. And some friends say, you know, you never call me until you need something. How about we just do lunch and talk about something fun? So that's our relationship to go vertical before we go horizontal.
- [30:31]
B
Yeah. That's so good, Jim. I'm glad that you mentioned that because I feel like this is not just a spiritual practice, but it's a very practical process to daily process with the Lord. And I love how you even just said the prayer of God, will you help me? I mean, such an honest prayer of like, if you don't know what to say, just asking that. We've mentioned, you know, going to the Lord, going vertically. We've also mentioned going horizontally and asking if you can sit before someone in person, if you can processing, which is like a community aspect, getting that support. What are some other, if any practical kind of things that you see in some of the mentally healthiest people that you know or when you, Jim, are at your mentally healthiest, what kind of practices or in your daily rhythms or routines?
- [31:20]
C
Well, and I do know you put this in your last question, so I'm going to harken back to it. And it responds to this excellent question you've asked Shame. You know, I teach on that my acrostic is self hatred at most at my expense. I think a lot of people go, really? I don't know that I hate myself. Give me five minutes with you and to talk and I'll hear the self condemnation. So looking at and I believe more than just cute quote or something that might go in a book or something when I am doing self hatred at my expense shame, I am far away from Psalm 51, a broken and contrite heart and spirit God will not despise. So when I go to shame back to Joel's word and the word I use a lot about calling our struggles, even some mental health responses for Christians to say, I think there's idolatry there. A lot of our sin is a disorder out of order of worship. So inside, if something hits me, if I'm going to shame and very terrible self talk and putting myself down, I am ever more moving away from alignment with God and who I really am in my identity in Christ, not just away from God. I'm out of alignment. To which I call mental health or emotional and spiritual chiropractic. People go to chiropractors all the time. Fine. They get realigned literally in their spine. And I'll say, you need to have daily, not perfect, but daily mental and spiritual chiropractic get back aligned with God. You catch yourself in shame, putting yourself down, maybe even a type of complaining. Say, lord, I stop right now. The word of God implies in Romans our sin should shut our mouths. Just stop. Say God. He was Jimbo, what's up? I go, I just went down the itty bitty pity committee. I know I'm doing it. Self awareness, ladies and gentlemen. Self awareness is the number one thing you want in all discipleship, coaching and therapy. Why? When I'm self aware, I go, that's my stuff. I know who I need to call. I knew I need to go vertical and literally. Can we just say it? I need to in this moment. Metanoia is the Greek word I need to repent. Why is that important? Again, the Greek word I stop that internal dialogue right away and I begin to turn metanoia and go 180 the other and say, Lord. He'll say, what do you want, Jimbo? I go, I'm condemning myself. And I literally hear the Father or Jesus or the Holy Spirit say, you think, you think you know, don't you, buddy? And I go, I'm very intimate with Jesus, as though he is with me. And he goes, I know. Never does he condemn me. Remember the word of God. Jesus looked upon them with compassion, calm means, with passion. To suffer, to suffer with. And he says, I know. That's when you know, when you get that self awareness, folks, you begin to smile and go, hey, without a therapist or calling my good friend Shay, I caught myself right there. And I'm going to use the word Lord, I repented of and said, Lord, I'm not going to do that anymore. For Romans 8. One, there's therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. What people will do, I've done it. They'll live. The end of Romans 7, Paul said, I'm a hot mess. I mean, the things I know, I'm Paul, the things I know I should do, I don't. And what I shouldn't be doing, I do. Oh, wretched man who will deliver me. And people do not step right up in Romans 8. 1. Remember, no divisions originally in the Bible. Don't see that as the next chapter. It just steps up. Therefore. Therefore what? When I'm a hot mess, there's therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Talk out loud to yourself, which you know I've said. Nehemiah 5, 7. Hey, that's shame coming up for me, buddy. Sister, that's wrong. I repent of that. I have the word of God to speak over that. And I'm gonna tell you and I'll stop here. You know what, folks? It is just not that hard to do. St. Paul, Philippians 4. Listen, he said, you know, the things we've learned and seen with at least a Bible study or going to Haven Place or my goodness, hopefully we put out some good material in therapy and theology. Paul said, all that learning, that's good. You read good. Boundaries and goodbyes. That's great. Go put into practice. Shea. I'll tell you, it's the biggest thing I see in all my group work and all my individual work is people will leave, they'll come back and say, hey man, I need to check in more than you would know. And they've not put into practice all the hard work they did in a three day intensive. I never shamed them. I go, all right, sounds like maybe you're more ready this time. But that's put stuff into practice. Even off this podcast, when you learn things, go put it into practice.
- [36:01]
B
That's so good. And honestly, that's so Relatable because I think, you know, whether it could be for so many reasons why they haven't put those things into practice. I don't know if it's procrastination or they have like a mental block, shocked they can't get past or they just feel overwhelmed. They don't know where to start. But if you're listening today, and maybe this isn't your first season that you've had a tough go with your mental health, I hope that you're encouraged today that the. The best time to start is right now. It that you don't have to shame yourself in the past of where you felt like you fell short or the things that you didn't do to be better by now or anything like that. I've even heard another. I think our pastor at church actually had another acronym for shame. And of course, I was thinking of you, Jim, and it was kind of. It speaks to that self talk, which is should. Should have already mastered everything.
- [36:58]
C
That's good.
- [36:59]
B
And I think that we can just get stuck on that loop of like, I shame will keep you from making any kind of forward progress if you tell yourself I should have already mastered this, you know, and so the best time to start is right now. Take inventory of your life. Take inventory of these areas that we've mentioned. And don't be afraid to be honest. I think that's one of the best things you can do is to be really like brutally honest from the gut of just like, this is where I'm at, you know, And I feel like that's where true healing can really start to take place, is when we get honest. And so I hope that people are encouraged today that even if they tried to make progress before, it's not too late for them.
- [37:41]
C
Hey, remember the wisdom of Shay. The Shay you're putting out, and I love this about you, you're putting out all kind of gold nuggets. The first. Okay, maybe the second, but at least I think the first. Help me here, folks. Question you see God ask. It's the first one. Certainly after the fall had to deal with a. What's happened? Who told you this? But then when he gets to Adam, what was that first question? Next, Adam, where are you? So in that. When you say that, borrow that and I'll ask people, what's your red dot? The red dot on the mall directory says, you are here. Let's start. You know, every journey of a conversation should check in. You and I did it here before we came on screen or while we were first on screen, not recording. Hey, what's been going on? Now you can say, how are your holidays? And all that's fine, but the idea of God saying, where are you? So the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are saying, girl, brother, good, good guy, awesome woman. My child, where are you? What's really going on? And if they're bored, I've taught it so many places. In Nehemiah Chapter two, there are four questions listed. And listen to them. I'll just do them and talk about mental health real quick. Question one, the king is asking Nehemiah. Now, you can use these in every coffee cup, counseling session, or friendship. Question one is, what's going on? Because he saw me, was sad. He said, I saw you were sad and I know you're not sick. Question one is just, what's going on? Question two is, what do you really want? Question three says, how long is it going to take? Probably for you to work on this? Anxiety, depression, some other childhood, as I was a victim of childhood sexual abuse and marital problems and other things is, how long is it going to take? Does it take more than one coffee conversation? And then that fourth question, implied, not stated as, what do you need? What do you need for the journey? We're resourcing people. Oh, my, how much we've tried to resource people in therapy and theology. Here are some tools, the books that we have that are there, like, here's some tools for you, but then you got to put those into practice. But starting with the fundamental one. As you see, someone said, oh, man, I don't want to ask, but to ask a person and say, look, I've got five minutes. Tell me what's really going on for you. Right? Those are four questions. You can reference them in Nehemiah Chapter two.
- [39:59]
B
So good. I think that's such a good way to close today. Jim, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and being our favorite resident counselor on the podcast. So good to be with you today.
- [40:12]
C
Always good to be with you. Remember Nehemiah 2:18. For all of us, the good hand of our God is upon us for good.
- [40:20]
B
Amen.
- [40:22]
A
And now it's time for Listener Mail, where we respond to your questions. Today's Listener mail is brought to you by Compassion International, which I'm so excited to tell you more about. Compassion is fighting child poverty in powerful, practical ways. Through the work of local churches and the generosity of sponsors like you and me, Compassion is releasing children from poverty in Jesus name. We've seen the impact of sponsorship firsthand through education, medical care, healthy food, clean water, and the love and hope of the gospel. And now we want to invite you to join us in sponsoring a child. When you sponsor, you'll receive a copy of the Proverbs 31 ministries study guide titled Keep holding on as our thank you for investing in the life of a child. Go to compassion.com Lisa to choose a child to sponsor today. Okay friends, let's hear today's question. This listener asked what is the healthy and Christian way to reconcile with someone specifically when there is complex trauma in the relationship? I want to forgive like the Lord does. Our friend and favorite theologian, Dr. Joel Mutamale is going to tackle this one.
- [41:32]
D
I think one of the first things I would say is to remember that the Bible talks about forgiveness in terms of releasing an offense and pardoning an offense. Those are the terms that are used in the New Testament, Ophiemian aphasis. And there's also a third term, charizomi, which is a grace laced kind of forgiveness. And so one we want to understand what the Bible says about forgiveness and what it's not saying about forgiveness. It is absolutely about a release of an offense. The Bible doesn't demand reconciliation, but does want us to seek it out if it's possible. And so in terms of how to reconcile in the presence of complex trauma, I think it's important to remember that all trauma and all forgiveness come with two parts. This is something that Jim Cross often says. You've got the fact of what has taken place and the impact of what is taking place. And it is going to take time and humility and really a commitment to process all of this through the impact of what has taken place. So we forgive the fact of what has happened. We've released it and we've let it go. And then we have to remember that forgiveness is really, I like to think of it as an ing verb. It is about forgiving and learning how to continually forgive the areas of impact that become exposed to us, especially when it comes to trauma and triggers. Every time we we're triggered, we're being invited back into the process of forgiving the impact of what's taken place. And again, you just really want to have some solid Christian voices in your life. I would have a couple girlfriends that love Jesus more than they love you. I said it the way that I meant. You want them to continually point you to the ethics of the kingdom of God and to the ways of Jesus. You want to be praying and keeping step with the Holy spirit, Galatians, Chapter 5, and really pursue the Lord in those things and to see if reconciliation is possible. To do it in a way that does not undermine your dignity and the image of God that you bear. Hope that helps.
- [43:33]
C
Friend.
- [43:41]
A
Thanks for listening to today's episode. I'd love to personally invite you to help share these Therapy and Theology episodes with even more listeners by giving a financial gift to Proverbs 31 ministries. Today, therapy and Theology offers guidance that women can trust, not quick opinions and not noise when they're searching. Therapy and Theology provides biblical truth that will help them take a steady next step, even in the most uncertain situations. That's the mission behind this work, and I want you to be a part. Go to proverbs31.org give now to give Today.