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- [00:00]
Lyle
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Jemma Spaeg
This is Jemma Spaeg from the psychology of your 20s. Let your imagination take flight with an AI powered PC from Lenovo. Whether it's creating digital art, designing new software, or building a portfolio for a Future career. Their PCs are powered by Intel Core Ultra processors to help students unlock smarter learning and unleash their creativity. That's the power of Lenovo. With intel inside all, all you have to do is choose the one that fits your passion. Head to lenovo.com to shop AI PCs and find your perfect companion. Plus get 5% off when you create an education account.
- [00:43]
Ryan Seacrest
And here we have a specimen from the early 2000s, a legacy investing platform.
- [00:48]
Albertsons/Safeway Announcer
Please don't touch the exhibit folks.
- [00:50]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [01:14]
Albertsons/Safeway Announcer
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- [01:43]
Lyle
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Jack
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Jack
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Lyle
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- [02:13]
Jack
Hello, Is this Lyle?
- [02:15]
Lyle
Hi. Hi. Hello. What is. What is your name?
- [02:18]
Jack
My name is Jack.
- [02:20]
Lyle
Jack. What up Jack? Here we are. It's what, June? Oh shit. It's June 10th. It's been five years since I've, since I first started dressing up as a gecko and talking to people on the phone. I think maybe not exactly, but it was June of 2020 that I started doing this so I didn't think that I would still That I would still be doing this, which is cool, that I still am. And now I'm talking to you, Jack.
- [02:51]
Jack
Well, man, you know, on behalf of everybody, we all think thank you for, like, the stuff that you do.
- [02:57]
Lyle
Ah, Jack, what's up with you, man? Tell me. Enough of. I don't want to say. I. I can't suck my own dick today. What's going on with you, Jack? How's life?
- [03:06]
Jack
Well, I mean, you know, I can't complain. It's like crazy times going on. I just went to therapy for the first time today, so.
- [03:14]
Lyle
Interesting.
- [03:14]
Jack
That was cool, I guess.
- [03:16]
Lyle
What, how was your therapy experience?
- [03:19]
Jack
Well, I mean, it was like, you know, an intake session. So we just talked about, like, why I was there in my life, shit like that.
- [03:32]
Lyle
Okay, well, here's. I'll. I guess I'll say this is, you know, this is more of a. I think a ponder cast than a advice cast. I don't have any advice for anything, but. Or maybe I do, I don't know. But do you want to talk about the things that you talked about in therapy on a public podcast, or would you rather talk about something else?
- [03:57]
Jack
Man, we can talk about that if you want, Doc. You know, it's all good for me.
- [04:05]
Lyle
We thought. Hey, hey, you. We can talk about if you want.
- [04:10]
Jack
You know what? You. Man, we can talk about whatever you want. What do you want?
- [04:13]
Lyle
You. Hey, you. We'll talk about whatever you want.
- [04:17]
Jack
All right, I guess you win.
- [04:19]
Lyle
All right, cool.
- [04:23]
Jack
Well, I mean, I just graduated from fire academy, so. Yeah, I'm a fireman. And it's been like a crazy year and a half, Doc. Like, I went to. I went to the military, then I went to officer school and. And I. I'm a firefighter, emt. And all that happened in like a year and a half, you know.
- [04:50]
Lyle
Oh, was. What was firefighter school like?
- [04:55]
Jack
Oh, man, it's like. It's like basic training, but like diet, you know. But it was just like a lot of high intensity stuff. That was the real challenge. And it's like, you know, I live in the south, so it's like hot. You got like £60 on your back. You got like this gear on that insulates from heat and you're just like steaming in there. You're crawling on the floor and you're like, you can't see and you're just dragging and trying to find your way out. So it's pretty fun. Then, you know, there's also the fire stuff.
- [05:30]
Lyle
And. Well. How old are you, Jack?
- [05:34]
Jack
I'm 27.
- [05:35]
Lyle
27, just graduated. Now you're a firefighter. What made you want to decide to be a firefighter? I feel like, is that, are most firefighters like around that age or is that something you get into, like, right out of high school?
- [05:51]
Jack
They usually get around high school. I was like, mostly around people that age, you know?
- [05:57]
Lyle
Yeah. So I guess that's why I'm curious. Is that, is that what made you want to decide to do that comparatively well later in life?
- [06:05]
Jack
I'm trying to do the thing that you do except like, actually do it. You know, I'm trying to be like an actual therapist, but I don't know, it's like a lot of circumstance. I came back after like army training and stuff, and you know, my parents, you know, they're getting old and you know, they're not, they're not from this country, so they have to deal with that topical issue, you know, And I, I want to get my master's degree, so I was like, well, if I work at Walmart, I'm gonna blow my brains out. And, you know, I want to do something that's important to people, but at the same time, I need time to like, get experience. So for my master's application, so I just work for, I just work for two days and I'm off for four days. So that's the kind of, kind of gig that I wanted, you know.
- [07:03]
Lyle
Interesting. Okay, so you're a firefighter. Wait, which one? The, the firefighter job is the working for two days job. Yeah. Okay, so you needed some side work to do while you're pursuing your actual degree. That's so interesting that being a firefighter is like a part time job, it seems like, I guess, part time hours. It's a full time job with part time hours.
- [07:32]
Jack
I mean, it's 48 hours, like straight up. You straight up, like, it doesn't stop. It's 48 hours, but once you're done, you're four days off.
- [07:42]
Lyle
So for two days you don't sleep at all?
- [07:45]
Jack
No, we sleep, but I mean, we get woken up by fucking alarms. That tells us the, like the emergency. You just like go to sleep and then. Or throughout the day, any moment you hear. And then like you hear this lady just tell you what the problem is. You go on a truck and then you try to solve it.
- [08:02]
Lyle
Okay, so you're on call at the fire station for 48 hours straight back.
- [08:10]
Jack
Exactly.
- [08:11]
Lyle
Okay, all right, now, now I get it. All right, so it's two days a week where there's 48 hours where you cannot leave the fire station and you can sleep, but if some shit goes down, you got to wake up.
- [08:22]
Jack
Exactly. Yeah. We have to. We have to respond to that.
- [08:25]
Lyle
What do you guys do while there's not shit going down? You sit around.
- [08:31]
Jack
I mean, we do. We. Sometimes. It depends on the. We have to do, like, daily stuff to maintain the station, our equipment, the truck. We gotta like, train. And if you don't practice this stuff, you know you're gonna get, like, you can't perform. So then, like, you know, that's people's lives. But then after all that, like, yeah, I mean, you could be chilling, just like playing the goddamn Xbox, do whatever the fuck you want. Some people do side hustles, like on the computer with their free time. You know, a lot of different stuff.
- [09:04]
Lyle
So you're telling me next time I call 911 for like, a fire, I might be interrupting somebody's crypto trading?
- [09:12]
Jack
Yeah, homie, we're. We're deep in doge.
- [09:15]
Lyle
Interesting. What, what kinds of people are the other firefighters? What's their vibe?
- [09:21]
Jack
Oh, man, it's like a wide variety, Wide variety of different people. But, like, you know, a lot of them are like, a lot of them are just like, you know, corn. Cornbread eating. You know, they're pretty traditional American. Some of them have like, varying. Varying educational stuff. Like, I have a bachelor's degree and then a person in my same shift, he has a master's. Other people only have a high school diploma. You know, just sort of stuff like that.
- [09:56]
Lyle
Have you. Okay, so I know it took a year and a half for you to be. Do the training, but how long have you been at the job?
- [10:05]
Jack
Oh, dear. No, I'm just saying it's like, take a year and a half to do all the stuff that I did, like the army stuff and this stuff, but only I've only been on a job for like seven to eight months.
- [10:16]
Lyle
And how often have you. Like, like, what kind of shit has been going down in those seven, eight months? Like, are you going to fires every week?
- [10:25]
Jack
No, it depends on the. It depends on the fucking city. Like, if you're in a, like a bigger metropolitan, metropolitan area, there's like, fires every day. I live in, like, a smaller town, so it's mostly like medical calls. And honestly, dude, like, we get like, a lot of like, fucking list assists and like, you know, people. I had one where this lady was freaking out because she. She was taking like, some CBD gummies or some like, THC gummies. And then her mom, like, Gave her some, like, biovance or some. To counter it or something, but she was freaking out. I don't know why the she did that, though.
- [11:07]
Lyle
That sounds like a Tuesday for me.
- [11:10]
Jack
Yeah.
- [11:14]
Lyle
Yeah. Well, I mean, taking a lot of Vyvanse and then, I mean, taking a bunch of, like, getting super. Why would. I mean, I guess that this woman was not operating off of some kind of, like, medical theory. But why would Vyvanse help calm you down if you're being. If you're anxious from.
- [11:33]
Jack
I got no clue about that, though. She just decided to do that. I just had to do something about it. So we're talking to her and calming her down, and we just waited for the paramedic to come, and that's as much as we could do at that moment.
- [11:47]
Lyle
Okay. That. Okay. Sorry I was interrupting you, but that's what I was going to ask is, like, if I call you and I'm like, yo, my homie's tweaking on Vyvanse and. And having a weed panic attack. What do you actually. What do you do?
- [11:59]
Jack
Well, well, we can't really do much because we do have, like, naloxone. We got Narcan. We could do with opioid stuff. And, like, you know, if you have, like, a depressive episode, like, we have oxygen in order to, like, if you do, like, start hyperventilating, we could chill you out with that. You can make sure that, you know, you got the right oxygen on you. I mean, but besides, like, any, like, mechanical issue, if it's, like, a psychological issue, all we could do is just, like, be there for you, to tell you to calm down, homie. I mean.
- [12:32]
Lyle
What does a depressive episode look like? Like the type that you call an EMT for.
- [12:38]
Jack
Well, I'm telling. I'm telling you, like, if somehow, like, you have, like, let's just say, like, you have asthma, you could do something like that. Like, if you're. If something's obstructing your airway, we could do something about that. Like, we could do a lot with, like, airway. Airway stuff. But, like, if you're just tweaking out, homie, like, I mean, we just try your best. Try our best to chill you out.
- [13:04]
Lyle
Mm. Mm. How's the job been for you? Is that, like, crazy and tough, or do you like that schedule?
- [13:12]
Jack
Nah, dude, I. This is the only job, like, the true. Only job that I don't dread going to. It's probably, like, people say, like, most firefighters have something wrong with them because, like, a lot of them, like, relish the job. And it's like, weird to like, want. Want to go into dangerous situations. Like, a lot of the people there, they sit down and then like, you know, they watch. They watch Netflix and. And they're just like, man, I wish there was a car accident right now. And I'm just like, I don't wish that. But like, other people do, you know, it's like, kind of weird.
- [13:50]
Lyle
I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna sit here and say that. That doesn't make sense. You know, I think humans, we want to, you know, be doing shit. But why. But tell me why specifically you don't dread the job and why you love it so much?
- [14:08]
Jack
Well, it's one of the few jobs where you can see the impact of what you do, like, directly in front of your eyes. You know, I used to stock. I used to work for, like, the postal service, too. I used to be a mailman. And, you know, I would give somebody their mail and, you know, I give them the wave and all that. And, you know, I see them throwing the trash because it was junk mail. He's like, man, I guess, like, what the am I doing it for? You know.
- [14:45]
Lyle
I don't know why. I don't know why I love that so much. I don't know why that's funny to me. God damn. Yeah, but as a firefighter, justify just. You're a mailman and you're so proud of your job delivering the mail, and you hand someone their mail and it's junk and they throw it away. That's like a. That's like. That's just such a Charlie Brown esque scene.
- [15:14]
Jack
Dude, I feel like Charlie Brown all the time. Actually. I feel like Charlie Brown a lot.
- [15:20]
Lyle
Why do you feel like Charlie Brown a lot?
- [15:24]
Jack
Because Charlie Brown tends to try his best. And whenever he has, like, a moment of optimism, fate happens to just push him down back to the state where he was before. Yet he trudges along, you know, that's a very Charlie Brown esque.
- [15:47]
Lyle
What was the last thing you had optimism for that fate rejected?
- [15:58]
Jack
Ah, man. Well, it's. I don't want to get political, but it's like, you know, the. The political landscape, I guess.
- [16:06]
Lyle
Yeah, you can. If you can get political if you want. I don't really give a shit.
- [16:11]
Jack
Well, it's. It's, you know, my. My parents are like, they're. They're what you call, like, you know, undocumented and all that. So that's pretty much. That's the crux of it all, you know, this top and, you know, very topical. Topical moment. Especially, like in the state of California.
- [16:33]
Lyle
Sure, yeah, sure. I mean, I mean, I. Yeah, I understand that, but I guess. I guess you can still. You trudge along anyway.
- [16:47]
Jack
Yeah, it's just, it's. It's very discouraging, you know, when you. When you work for a country and like, 60 of it, don't really care for your parents or want them to go home or some stuff like that, you know, it's. It's a bit. A bit disheartening. But I try just, you know, I just tried my best, as you say.
- [17:08]
Lyle
Yeah, no, sure, sure. I mean, what yout as a firefighter, you work for, like, a county, right?
- [17:15]
Jack
A city.
- [17:16]
Lyle
Yes, city, I'm gonna assume. I mean, sure, you know, yeah, if you want to get bigger about it, you could look at it like that. But like, what about your. Your city or forget about that. I mean, just the people whom you. Who you serve directly. Do you feel.
- [17:36]
Jack
Oh, that's. That's why I try not to. So I try not to bring that stuff into me with the job. But when I go home, you know, that's, you know, that's what I see, frankly. But sure, I don't. I don't work, and that's what I think about, you know, when an emergency happens. I don't think about how this guy fucking voted. I'm just like, this guy's in fucking trouble. I need to help him out however I can.
- [17:59]
Lyle
Right, of course, of course. I'm still. I'm very. I'm very curious on again, still on the thread of you feeling like Charlie Brown all the time.
- [18:17]
Jack
Well, that. But that's how I feel like Charlie Brown. It's like, you know, I have two government jobs and, you know, and it seems I am wary of the government, Especially in terms of how they view my family. And I try my best to do my job, and I do it well, but when I go home, I just, you know, I get a little bit jaded about it because it's really the crux of a lot of my problems in my personal life is that. So I have this optimism for working for my country and my city and helping people and doing my best, but at the same time, that gets shot down by all the political happenings, you know?
- [19:19]
Lyle
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny. Okay, wait. Now, I don't want to get political, but I also kind of do a little bit.
- [19:30]
Jack
Well, it's up to you, Gecko man.
- [19:32]
Lyle
You know what?
- [19:32]
Jack
Yes.
- [19:33]
Lyle
You're right. Yes, you're right. It is. It is. What's your name? Jack.
- [19:37]
Jack
Yes. Jack. Yes. Lyle.
- [19:39]
Lyle
Sorry, sorry, I'm bad at names. I've been on, I've been thinking a lot about like, fuck you. Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna go on a philosophical rant. Oh, God.
- [19:53]
Jack
Do you, man? Do you?
- [19:54]
Lyle
Well, like, cuz I like, like, okay, like, like loving America or really like loving anything. I think inherent to like loving something or belonging to something, like true patriotism is. Is being viciously critical of that which you love and belong to. You know what I mean?
- [20:21]
Jack
Yeah, of course. Because you love it.
- [20:22]
Lyle
Because you love it. So I. So, so by being a, a man who in such a pure way serves his country and yet is, is critical of it and feel it, feels betrayed by it. I don't think you, you, I guess from that perspective you don't live in a contradiction at all. You live in, you know, I mean, you're, you're, you're a, you're a patriot. You're doing what you're, I think should be doing if you're a patriot.
- [21:04]
Jack
Well, it's not just for, you know, I don't want to be the stereotype. It's not just for country. You know, there's. I, I do it because it's a, it's a good thing to do regardless of like, you know, the, the whole country stuff. And you, you know, I do love my country. It's just like, I mean, you know, if you, if you believe life is suffering, which I believe it is, and that everybody suffers, you inherently have compassionate for your fellow man. So you have. You're prompted to want to quell that suffering as much as you can. And you know, I know I suffer so.
- [21:41]
Jemma Spaeg
This is Gemma Spagh from the psychology of your twenties. Are you shopping for a new laptop while trying to keep up with all the new technology and AI? Talk about feeling burnt out. But no more. Lenovo.com makes it easier than ever to find the perfect PC. In fact, they'll break it down for you. Step one, shop their lineup of AI PCs powered by Intel Core Ultra processors. Because why deal with downloading new software when you can just buy a smarter PC that already comes with all of the AI features and tools. Step two, find the one that fits your passion. Whether you're a creative genius, a research scientist, a hardcore gamer, or a future CEO, no dream is too big. That is the power of Lenovo. With intel inside, you can keep up with your ideas as well as any challenges you may face step three Add to cart and purchase. Oh, and if you're a college student or a teacher, make an education account through lenovo and get 5% off your whole order shop now@lenovo.com a better future is waiting and it needs you.
- [22:47]
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- [23:45]
Ryan Seacrest
You know what's great about your investment account with the big guys? It's actually a time machine. Log in and zoom. Welcome back to 1999. It's time for an upgrade. At public.com you can invest in almost everything. Stocks, bonds, options and more. You can even put your cash to work at an industry leading 4.1% APY. Leave your clunky outdated platform behind. At public.com, go to public.com and fund your account in five minutes or less. Pay for by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Full disclosures at public.com disclosures Ryan Reynolds.
- [24:16]
Albertsons/Safeway Announcer
Here from Mint Mobile.
- [24:17]
Lyle
With the price of just about everything.
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Albertsons/Safeway Announcer
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- [24:28]
Jack
Get 30, 30 better get 30.
- [24:29]
Ryan Seacrest
Better to get 20, 2020. Better get 20, 20.
- [24:31]
Lyle
Better get 15 15, 15, 15. Just 15 bucks a month. Sold.
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Albertsons/Safeway Announcer
Give it a try@mintmobile.com.
- [24:38]
Lyle
Upfront payment of.
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Ryan Seacrest
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Lyle
For first three months only.
- [24:42]
Ryan Seacrest
Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees.
- [24:44]
Lyle
Extract C mint mobile.com you know it's so funny is I Forgive me listeners if I referenced this on an earlier podcast, because I'm sure I have. It's one of my favorite Onion articles. Do you know the one I'm talking about? It goes existentialist. Firefighter delays three. Three deaths. And it's so funny because, like, that's you. That's what you're doing every time. You're really. You're going out there delaying deaths every day, putting.
- [25:19]
Jack
That's what it is.
- [25:23]
Lyle
Putting your death closer to now to help delay the deaths of others.
- [25:32]
Jack
Pretty much. Pretty much how it is, man. But.
- [25:37]
Lyle
So I'm trying to. I'm trying to think here again. We can talk about View. Is this is. Wait, are. Is this what you were talking about with your therapist?
- [25:47]
Jack
Yeah.
- [25:47]
Lyle
You were just.
- [25:48]
Jack
Okay, yeah, yeah, this is what I was talking about.
- [25:54]
Lyle
Yeah, Tell me. Tell me more if you want. I got this, like, kind of conflict you're having internally.
- [26:01]
Jack
It's. Honestly, it's just. Sometimes I just get fucking mad at society because, you know, we. We deal with all this, and it's like, greater stuff, like, too. Like, we deal with all this categoric categorization, and we just put ourselves in these boxes and we hate ourselves for reasons that don't even make sense, that are just social constructs, but yet here we are in. In this clusterfuck of whatever the. Is going on right now that just makes everybody else suffer. And I. And that's what I'm in the middle of. It's just like. Like, what do I do, you know?
- [26:51]
Lyle
What did your therapy. What did the therapist say?
- [26:54]
Jack
Well, it was. It was like the first session, so they're just like, well, we'll. We'll deal with this the next session. But yeah, yeah, she said. She said, like, she understands where my anger is from. She. She gets it.
- [27:08]
Lyle
Sure.
- [27:10]
Jack
But then again, I didn't pay her, so.
- [27:14]
Lyle
Yeah, it's true. If she didn't understand where your anger was coming from, I mean, is that.
- [27:20]
Jack
That.
- [27:20]
Lyle
It's not that hard, I don't think, to understand where your anger is coming from. Wait, hold on. I'm trying to see if. I'm trying to see if I understand where. I think I understand where your anger is coming from. I mean, yeah, you're in a. You're in a crisis about, like, oh, I'm working so hard to do all this, and then it seems like nobody really gives a fuck.
- [27:43]
Jack
Exactly.
- [27:43]
Lyle
A global scale. Yes.
- [27:45]
Jack
Yeah.
- [27:45]
Lyle
But I don't know. I can. I just. From. From my personal opinion perspective, looking at your life is like, your cut is like, you're Kind of doing the best that you can. I think what. Like, one of the subjects I think about a lot when I just sit around and think or whatever is like. Like. Like the. The onus of the individual versus the onus of society and shit. Because it's like. It's like, well, you sit there and you want things to get better and. Yeah. You know, if you really want to go crazy mode, you're not going crazy. Whatever. If you really want to, you know, do a bunch of shit, yeah, you can pick some. Cause that you have, and you can protest and you can work on it, and you can. You can, you know, vote. Of course you can do all these things.
- [28:40]
Jack
Right.
- [28:41]
Lyle
But there comes a point where you. Where, like, I'm also. I'm also big on, like, what is within my control and what is not. And there's also. It's like, when it comes, like, societal issues, there becomes a little bit of a point where you're like, when is. When is. When do I. When. When do I throw up my hands? You know, when do I throw up my hands and go. A lot of this is out of my control? And for you, you are doing, like, to look around. I really hope. I'm trying to hone in on a point here, is for you to look around and everything you see is on fire, metaphorically. And then you go. And then you go, okay. In response to everything around me metaphorically being on fire, I'm going to literally go and put out fires. And I like that. Yeah, and I like that. I like that about your life, Jack.
- [29:38]
Jack
Seems like the point.
- [29:39]
Lyle
That's cool. I think that's really cool. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good response to fighting the metaphorical fires, is to fight real ones. I think that's a good. That's a good vibe.
- [29:54]
Jack
The Good point, Gekko, man. Very good point.
- [29:59]
Lyle
Do you got. Do you. Is there an Xbox in the fire station?
- [30:05]
Jack
I mean, sometimes people bring it. I mean, I can bring my own PlayStation, but. Yeah.
- [30:09]
Lyle
What do you. What do you do? What do you got on the PlayStation, man?
- [30:13]
Jack
People are gonna fucking. Dude, I play fucking Overwatch and Dark Souls. Those are the fucking games that I fucking play, okay?
- [30:21]
Lyle
Why. Why. Why did you think that people would be upset about that? Millions and millions of people play those games.
- [30:27]
Jack
I don't fucking know. I don't know. I just thought because it's just such a juxtaposition of two games just seems weird.
- [30:34]
Lyle
Overwatch and Dark Souls.
- [30:36]
Jack
Yeah.
- [30:37]
Lyle
What is. I don't really know much about dark Souls. I just know it's like, I know it's. I know it's hard. That's what I know about it.
- [30:47]
Jack
Yeah. Like one like Overwatch league is a very cutesy game and all that. And then like, fucking. I played like bloodborne. Now I'm going to the beginning of like Dark Souls, like this gritty, like gothic fucking, fuck you kind of a game.
- [31:03]
Lyle
Are the other. Are the other firefighters also, like in existential crisises or like, what do you think? What do you think's going on? I mean, brains?
- [31:15]
Jack
Well, everybody has like, you know, inherently like a special human experience. So I don't really know what the fuck's going on. But a lot of them are like, you know, I think they just go home, have a few beers, like, fucking watch sports and just, you know, like, live with their families and just big chilling until like, the next time they gotta come here. But who knows what they have in their own personal life, you know?
- [31:44]
Lyle
How's. How's your personal life going?
- [31:50]
Jack
You know, it's. You know, I did. I have been complaining for about like 30 minutes. But like, comparatively, like, I, I live a pretty good life. Like, I do.
- [32:00]
Lyle
Like, I have a good.
- [32:04]
Jack
Oh, you know, I got a fiance. I have a bachelor's degree. I have a kick ass job. People say like, it's one of the greatest jobs people can have. You know, I have the benefits of military benefits and these benefits. I, I actually own a home and my parents live in it and all that. I mean, you know, prices are going up and I, I'm broke as. But like, comparatively to a lot of people, I mean, I'm living good, you know, but sometimes when I. Yeah, no, go ahead. But I say like, you know, the, the, the. The point of contention here is just like, you know, I. Here's here. Let me tell you the truth. I would give all the. That I've ever done away, like, all the, all this. I would give it all away. If my parents truly had had, like, it had the shot to be citizens of the East United States, you know, that's. That's all, that's all they've ever wanted ever since they got here.
- [33:07]
Lyle
Mmm.
- [33:09]
Jack
I'd throw it all away.
- [33:10]
Lyle
Mmm.
- [33:11]
Jack
I'd sell it all.
- [33:14]
Lyle
Where can I ask where they're from?
- [33:18]
Jack
They're from south of the border.
- [33:21]
Lyle
What is the, like, actual. I was reading a little bit about this. Like, what it, what, what is the actual process of becoming a US Citizen?
- [33:34]
Jack
It depends on, like. And, and now I'm talking About a subject that I'm not an expert at. So, I mean, if I'm saying something wrong, you know, excuse me, but under their circumstances, where they came here, you know, illegally and all that in, in the traditional sense, they have this penalty of 10 years where they would have to go back to their home country and then they would have to wait that out and then typically apply again. However, since, you know, I am a member, I am a member of the United States military, I, I, I put two petitions to Homeland Security to, for a parole in place, which means that they'll take off that 10 year penalty and for one year they cannot be, they cannot be deported. But it's in that system and it's going to take like a year and a half and it's only, you know, I still have a year to wait. So that's, that, that's where I'm at.
- [34:42]
Lyle
Okay, so you, as a military. Okay, sorry, hold on. I'm trying to piece together your life. You, you have a government job as a firefighter and then a government job in the military. Okay, so as a member of the military, you are eligible to like, petition for your parents to get citizenship.
- [35:07]
Jack
Yeah, that's basically what I'm doing.
- [35:09]
Lyle
And there's a bunch of bureaucratic bullshit that is keeping that in the system for a year. So your parents still are dealing with insecure status for like a year?
- [35:24]
Jack
Yes, yes.
- [35:27]
Lyle
But then what happened? And are we, and after that year is up, are they good?
- [35:32]
Jack
They'll make a decision. They'll make a decision. You know, not all petitions are guaranteed. Yeah, it's like case by case basis. So, and who knows, like, if, you know, the current administration wants to change the certain, those certain qualifications and can make it either easier or more difficult. You know what I'm saying?
- [35:51]
Lyle
Mm. Well, yeah. What are they. You said it's a case by case basis. Like, do you, do you have any idea what they.
- [35:59]
Jack
Look for? Like, criminal background mostly and like, you know, like whether you are on welfare or not, the stuff you've done.
- [36:17]
Lyle
Oh, sorry. Jack, your phone up again.
- [36:20]
Jack
Oh, sorry. I said whether you pay taxes, criminal history, the stuff you've done, whether you committed any other crimes, stuff like that.
- [36:32]
Lyle
Hmm. And how long, how long have your parents been in the States?
- [36:37]
Jack
For as long as I've been alive. I think it's probably like 30 years now.
- [36:41]
Lyle
God damn, that's crazy. After that long, like, that's crazy to me that, like, after that long, it's still.
- [36:50]
Jack
I had to sign a contract for them to get a Shot at it.
- [36:53]
Lyle
And it's the shot that's crazy. So. But if you aren't. If you aren't, like, if your son's not in the military, like, what the fuck do you do?
- [37:08]
Jack
I guess get a million dollars and then do that.
- [37:14]
Lyle
Why? Can you. Can you buy citizenship?
- [37:17]
Jack
That's what the current administration is talking about. I'm not sure if it's a million or what. It's some sort of exorbitant amount. But he's been talking about it. It's like some sort of gold card or whatever.
- [37:28]
Lyle
Huh.
- [37:29]
Jack
Yeah.
- [37:32]
Lyle
Do you have siblings?
- [37:34]
Jack
Yes.
- [37:35]
Lyle
How are they doing?
- [37:39]
Jack
Well, you know, one of them is dealing the same situation as my parents, and then, you know, another one's just like, trying to start their own life.
- [37:49]
Lyle
So you wait, you have a sibling who was not born here?
- [37:55]
Jack
Right.
- [37:57]
Lyle
And then do they. And they have to deal with the exact same shit that your parents do?
- [38:02]
Jack
Yeah, it's even worse because I was talking to an. I talked to an immigration lawyer to deal with all this stuff, and he said if I wanted to petition for him directly, it would take 13 years.
- [38:13]
Lyle
What the fuck?
- [38:15]
Jack
Yep. So apparently one of my parents would need to get naturalized first and then he can get a shot at it.
- [38:21]
Lyle
When. When he says it will take 13 years, does that mean, like, he has to go back to where he came from and then wait years?
- [38:30]
Jack
13 years in the United States.
- [38:34]
Lyle
Okay, so he spend 13 years in the United States, but he doesn't become. But it requires 13 years to be a citizen.
- [38:42]
Jack
Not a citizen. He would, like, get the same, like, petition, like parole in place. Like, it'd be like that same thing. And then he would get a shot at being a naturalized citizen. It's not like it's not an automatic ticket there steps.
- [38:55]
Lyle
But during those 13 years, like, motherfuckers can't happen to him. Anything could happen to him.
- [39:02]
Jack
Yeah.
- [39:03]
Lyle
Damn. And you said your other sibling is like, not. Is like kind of doing their own thing.
- [39:13]
Jack
Yeah, they're just doing their own thing.
- [39:15]
Lyle
Are you close to them?
- [39:18]
Jack
Yeah.
- [39:20]
Lyle
That's cool.
- [39:21]
Jack
Yeah.
- [39:32]
Lyle
And your therapist didn't tell you anything?
- [39:39]
Jack
I was talking to them about it and they said I was justified in my anger. And I was telling them basically, like, how I'm motivated by existential spite about it. And I was telling them, like, you know, I don't think this is a healthy mechanism to motivate myself. And they were just basically like, yeah, yeah, you're right. There's healthier ways to do it. And then we're going to talk. We're going to work that through. Basically, they said, like, you know, it's just an intake, so they're going to. We're going to work through those negative thought patterns.
- [40:19]
Lyle
I've never heard that word before. Existential spite.
- [40:24]
Jack
Yeah.
- [40:27]
Lyle
Can you explain what that means to you? Existential spite?
- [40:32]
Jack
Yeah, I'll explain it. Given the situations that I've, like, you know, been through where, like, all this piles on you and, you know, you're backed in a fucking corner and it seems like the fates themselves have a vendetta towards your life. Like, it just seems that the only way to move forward is to hate. Like, the. The position you're in, your very own hate. You should hate the fates. Like, you should get revenge on the fates for doing this to you by living a good life. That's how I feel about it.
- [41:19]
Lyle
Okay, a couple things. One, I. I don't think I have a strong. I don't think I have a strong understanding of what absurdism is, but I think it's something kind of like this. But also, actually, what I was going to say before you explained existential spite is like, I feel like maybe. Sorry, maybe I'm being. Maybe this is just like semantics or whatever, but like existentialism, or maybe this is nihilism. Just the. The idea that they're even. The. Okay, the idea that there even are fates to spite, I feel like is. Is not. Like, do you believe in fates? Like, do you believe that there are, like, forces that exist, like God?
- [42:18]
Jack
I'm agnostic, so I don't really know.
- [42:20]
Lyle
So you believe there might be fates that exist that are. That hate you.
- [42:29]
Jack
Sometimes it feels like that, you know, it's kind of a ridiculous thing to think about, but sometimes it feels like that. Like, you know, when. You know, when you want it, you want to hate something and there's nothing for you to hate, so you just invent something.
- [42:46]
Lyle
And you said it is on. And you said you believe it's unhealthy.
- [42:51]
Jack
Yeah. To be motivated by. Because it makes you hate everything.
- [42:57]
Lyle
Okay, that idea. The idea. Basically, I kind of believe through operating like this in my life and through kind of observing shit and talking to people in my real life and on this podcast and stuff. It might not be this binary, but, like, you can kind of act, I think, out of fear or love and through. And it's dynamic and people are dynamic and narratives are dynamic and. Yeah, all that. And I've personally lived. Probably lived most of my. If you took everything I've ever done in my Entire life. I'd say a lot of it is fear for sure.
- [44:04]
Jack
Yeah.
- [44:04]
Lyle
Hold on. I'm actually thinking I was, you know what? I was gonna, I was gonna try to make a joke and I was gonna say something like wiping. I don't know if I wiped my ass out of fear or love, but now I'm gonna challenge myself to decide if I wipe my ass out of fear of love. I think I wipe my ass out of love. I think I wipe my ass out of love because I love. Well, I mean, fuck, you could wipe your ass out of fear of love. You could, you could be afraid that you have a stinky asshole calling cancer or something. And there cancer are that people will judge you. You can, you can be wiping your ass because like sideways instead of, instead.
- [44:36]
Jack
Of, like up and down, you know.
- [44:38]
Lyle
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you, or you cope your ass out of love because you love yourself and so you want a clean asshole. Exactly. I should, yes. Some. I, I, I think I wipe my ass out of a fear of discomfort when I'm like walking around and I have shit in my ass. But you could also. But, but either way, you wipe your ass either way where the motive behind it didn't matter that much anyway. Okay. Fear and love and your life is typically, I think, gonna be better the more you can operate from love and not fear. Although, again, in my personal life, I feel as though I have gotten to a lot of places that I, I have gotten a lot of good results via things that I did operating out of fear. And I was pretty miserable. I'm pretty miserable. Anytime I'm operating out of fear, I'm pretty fucking miserable. And when I look back, part of me is like, and this is something I can, I can only come to looking back, but when I look back, I'm like, oh, I probably could have gotten similar results if, if I did the same exact shit, but I operated from a place of love, you know, because look, you're gonna go to work and you're gonna put out fires and you're gonna try to live your best life and you're gonna, you know, try to be a good boyfriend or, you know, exercise or be a good son to your parents or you're gonna do all the shit anyway. Like the, the, the actual, the actions are, the actions themselves. They're like, objective. So if you're gonna do it, you might as well reframe it and be doing it from a place of, you know, I love helping people. I love my parents, I love myself, all that, you know, stupid Shit.
- [47:09]
Jack
Yeah.
- [47:12]
Lyle
You know, I'm trying to give, I'm trying to get more on that train. I'm realizing this.
- [47:19]
Jack
You're right guys.
- [47:20]
Lyle
Yeah. Cuz I've cuz yeah, that's the thing. Despite the doing thing, I always thought, I've always thought doing things at a spy was really fucking stupid. Like, like I'm like when you ever on Instagram and you see a thing where it's like a guy with a cool watch and he's like yeah. And he's, and he's like, he's like, you got, and he's like, you got a lot of people to prove wrong today. I'm like, what a stupid reason to do anything to prove someone wrong. Yeah, you know, it's a stupid, really stupid reason to do anything.
- [47:56]
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- [51:00]
Lyle
But also, I think like, you know, love can take a lot of different forms. You know, like it's not. Doesn't have to necessarily be like positive. Yeah, maybe, I don't know, existential spite. You do you feel. So you feel that way right now. You're living out of spite, but you're trying to spite fate. But you don't even believe in fate. So. So you're trying to spite something that you don't even believe.
- [51:29]
Jack
I spite in spite. In spite of your own circumstances. Like you hate. Since. Since you hate the position you are in now, that motivates you to try to beat it, you know?
- [51:49]
Lyle
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Okay, sorry everyone. I have to give some context real quick. Halfway. Okay. Two seconds ago, while we were recording the computer, my computer shat out and it still might shit out. Who knows? But so I, I had to like. I spent like an hour fixing it and then I called Jack back and so now we. We. So in. In the. In the split second that you. That between whatever I was just saying before and now there has been in real time an hour. Um, but. Sorry, Jack, I know this is weird, but I'm gonna try to get back into our conversation. Um, because the. What the thing, okay, the thing that got cut out that I wanted to tell, that I told you, but that I wanted to record was that. Yeah, I've. Personally, I, I would be. Is that I would be lying to you if I told you that I haven't in, in my own, like, personal life, achieved certain, like, empirical outcomes via. By being fueled by, like, hating myself or, like, hating my life or whatever. You know, Like, I'd be. It would be wrong to say that that's not an effective fuel, but that I also, I. But that I also kind of believe that I'm also. I try, I try to be, like, optimistic that it's. That, that you, that it is possible to achieve, like, effective results that you want by not hating yourself and operating out of some form of, of love. You know, it feels weird to get back into this conversation with you after a full hour of losing momentum, but, but, but I know you were talking a little bit about, yeah, like, going against, like, fate, you know, do you, do you, do you, do you. So you feel like, do you feel like you're working in spite of fate? Yeah.
- [54:17]
Jack
Because, like, it feels like my life, like the cards have always been stacked against me given, like, my demographical makeup, you know. Like, you know, I'm a first generation American. I'm the first person in my family who's, like, got a college degree, who's been in the military, who's been a firefighter. And it's, you know, it's. Sometimes I feel like I don't really belong in these places because I think of, like. Because, like. Let's just give you this instance. I was working with somebody like, during the summer, like, in construction, and they were like the same demographic that I was. You know, we were both laborers. But the difference is that I was an American citizen than this guy. He came from some, you know, he came from some Hispanic country. He didn't have, like, any citizenship or anything. He couldn't speak English. We only spoke in, like, Spanish. And that was, that was the difference. Like. And I thought to myself, oh, man, I could. This could happen to me. You know, I could be that guy. And there's so many people like that around here in this country that that's what I mean by, like, things are like, stacked up against me, that it's like the fates. It's that circumstance.
- [55:41]
Lyle
I also wanted to ask, like, I guess with that operation from existential spite, like, moving forward, what do you, what do you hope to accomplish out of that, out of that spite?
- [55:59]
Jack
Well, that's why I'M like going to the, to the counselor. If I went today is because I know, I know in my heart of hearts, like it's not, you know, it's not a healthy thing to do. But like I've done so much with it. Like, like even like talking about it right now, it gets me like pumped up because it's, it's like a, it's like a self defense mechanism. You know, when the cards are stacked up against you and you're trapped in that corner, you're trapped in that corner. The only thing you want to do is fight, right? And if you fight all the time, you just get so like tired and defeated. And sometimes I feel like that, you know.
- [56:37]
Lyle
You know, maybe I would. You know, actually what you just said brings up kind of a thing where I'm like, Because again, I'm trying, I try to be optimistic that you can achieve good results via like being fueled by, I guess more like traditionally healthy things. But what you just said was interesting because it's like, well, okay, maybe like I'll show them, I'll prove them wrong. Or you know, I, I want to work in spite of shit. Like, yeah, is an effective fuel win balanced, you know? You know, like, like, like maybe it's an effective fuel when to a point and then after a certain point become. It's like maybe finding the balance. Maybe, maybe that fuel itself is fine, but it's like finding the balance of how much. Yeah, how much to hit that gas pedal, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe that's it.
- [57:34]
Jack
Well, part of me is afraid of letting that part of me go because it's such a motivator.
- [57:40]
Lyle
Like, right.
- [57:41]
Jack
And it's fucked up to think about that. Like me being like happy and healthier may make me less motivated. Like that's the thing that scares me. Like, what if I can't go anymore? You know, I get complacent.
- [57:55]
Lyle
I only have, again, I only, I only have my own data to work off of. I will say that like, since I like for me, like, like since, since I've been feeling better, I kind of care. I care a lot less about like certain success metrics, which I think does lead to them going down. But I found new metrics to care about and those metrics are going up and like personal mental health and happiness becomes its own metric and then that goes up, you know, but it is a foot. But, but you know, it is hard to, it is hard to tell. My strategy was that like I would hate myself for a certain amount of time until I got to a certain place. And then once I was there, I would try to learn how to not hate myself.
- [59:01]
Jack
But the thing is, is that it never stops. Like you always want, you always want to. There's always a new thing.
- [59:14]
Lyle
Yes, there is always. Of course, you know, there is always gonna be a new thing. But I don't know, I don't know. I was talking to. Do you have any idea? I don't know how, I don't know how you don't strike me as an extremely online guy, but do you know who Dr. K is?
- [59:36]
Jack
Yeah, the healthy gamer.
- [59:37]
Lyle
Yeah. Yeah. I was on his podcast like four years ago and I was like, I don't know why, but I was watching a little bit of it the other day and in it I'm talking about. And he's kind of like a, like he's a little, he's like a spiritual dude. And we were talking about like the concept of like there, you know, like once I get there.
- [60:01]
Jack
Yeah.
- [60:02]
Lyle
And I was kind of saying like, I don't know if there is a there. And he was like, yeah, I don't think there is a there either. And if I went back on there, I would be more skeptical. I look, dude, I. Dude, it's all, this is all theory crafting. But I low key think, I low key think there might be a there. I don't have enough data, but I look, I low key think there might be a there.
- [60:27]
Jack
Like self actualization there or nirvana there.
- [60:31]
Lyle
No, not, nothing like that. But like, like for me, my, my version of there was like, like for the, for the past five years, at any given time, if you asked me how I was doing, I would probably say like I'm okay or whatever. But I would only for like a lit. Only, only sparsely would I say I'm doing great. And for the past and only I'm. Dude, Jack. I'm literally like only as of less than a month ago, maybe like three and a half weeks, four weeks. Could I, if you asked me how I was doing, could I say I'm actually doing great? And for me that's fantastic and I appreciate you saying that. And for me that's there. And I never felt that way before. And now that I feel that way, I'm like, yo, am I there? But then this morning I was like feeling kind of like shit. And I was like, okay. And I was like, okay, there can't be a there. Like I can't. There's no fucking way. I'm like done with adversity or anything forever. Like I think just like all of that shit is kind of like, you know, depression or whatever the fuck is like inherent to the human experience. But so I don't know, maybe there's not a there. But I was at least for three weeks ago, at least as of three weeks, feeling like there is a there. So I don't know. I don't know. I'm just. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, go ahead.
- [62:06]
Jack
What if they're like. Actually exists, but like it's like the same idea of like, like Buddhists, like Zen Buddhism, like nirvana. Like you can always have it, but you, you, you need to get it. But if you, if you search for it too hard, like it. Push it repels itself, like you could have it like, like an oasis, like a cloud moving across the sun or something.
- [62:32]
Lyle
Yeah.
- [62:33]
Jack
Like you can always have it. But if you search for it too much, if you try too hard to get it, if you like. Instead, if you just allow yourself to be there, it'll be there.
- [62:46]
Lyle
Oh, man. No, I know. I know what you're talking. I've like, I've. I've thought about that shit because I know that that's the whole Buddhist thing of like, desire is suffering. So if you don't desire, you will not suffer. But I always, I always felt that was so paradoxical, you know, the way I took it. Go ahead.
- [63:04]
Jack
Yeah, the way I took it is that it's like an ideal, you know, that's the ideal of what you want to do. And of course ideals, like, ideals are perfect and we're not. But if you can like train yourself to do that, you can, you can have like at least a little bit of it.
- [63:23]
Lyle
Oh, yes, I like that. It's, it's. It's an ideal to be striven for. Not necessarily. It is an ideal to be striven to go towards. Not necessarily. It's not necessarily that Buddhism is saying like, hey, this is a state that exists. You know. Actually, actually, Jack. Sorry, Jackie there. Yeah, Actually, Jack, I don't know who was. I don't know who was just calling you to tell you that you got to go. But actually I'm looking at my computer right now and I've got like probably 60 seconds for craps out again.
- [64:01]
Jack
No, go for it.
- [64:03]
Lyle
So I'm going to. Dude, I really, I really appreciate. First of all, I really appreciate you said wait call. Letting me call you back after an hour to finish this conversation. Sorry, I know that was kind of annoying.
- [64:14]
Jack
Of course.
- [64:15]
Lyle
But again, I really appreciate this whole conversation, man. And I hope, I hope you get whatever it is that you're going after and. Thanks, man. Is there, is there anything else you want to say to the people, the computer before we go?
- [64:28]
Jack
Nah, I just. Dude, for you, man, just, just. I hope, I hope you stay there. I really do. I hope you stay there. And I'm trying to. And I'm trying to get there, you know, and everybody who's like in a similar position like me, you know, just do your best. You know, I certainly empathize and feel for you, but you know, just as, as you said, just try to do everything with love as best as you can.
- [64:59]
Lyle
Thank you, Jack. I'll let you get back to whoever is, whoever is yelling at you.
- [65:04]
Jack
All right, Have a good night, Jack.
- [65:06]
Lyle
Hey, thank you, Jack. Take care, man.
- [65:08]
Jack
Thank you.
- [65:13]
Lyle
Yo, that guy was. That guy was sick. Okay, hold on. I want to record this post call thought, but my computer is. Is about to. Is about to get fucked. But now. That conversation was awesome. I liked that conversation so much that I called Jack back after an hour so we could finish it. But I hope he's doing alright. And I don't know if there's a there. I don't have enough data. I've only felt. I've only felt mentally healthy for three weeks. So I don't know if there's a there yet. But we'll see. We'll see how long it goes. I'm optimistic. I think. I think there might be a there. I don't know. I don't know anything. All right, My computer's about to die. Okay, hold on. Hello, folks, it's Lyle here. That's the end of this episode. But get this. I'm releasing a bonus episode this week. That's right, an entire extra hour of the podcast that you can listen to by becoming a premium member of Therapy gecko over at therapygecko.supercast.com Supercast subscribers get access to bonus episodes. They get a completely ad free podcast feed of the regular show. They get recordings from my live shows members only streams and they help support my ability to continue doing this podcast. So here's a clip from this week's members only bonus episode. Good luck watching a bunch more dogs dying. I hope that. I was gonna say I hope you enjoy it, but whatever. I hope that. I hope that it doesn't fuck you up too much. But. But you. But I assume that if you go to be a veteran veterinarian, but maybe there's a part of you that likes to watch dogs die because you go into it knowing that you're gonna do that a lot, so I wanted to leave room to wish that upon you if that's what you wanted. If that makes any sense. It does make sense, Geck. If you want to hear this full conversation, you can sign up to become a premium member@therapygecko.supercast.com or find the link in the episode description. That's therapygecko.supercast.com Alright, I have nothing else to say. Therapy Gecko's on the line taking your phone calls every night. Therapy Gecko's doing it right, teaching you how to live your life, but he's not really an expert.
- [67:51]
Jemma Spaeg
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Ryan Seacrest
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Albertsons/Safeway Announcer
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Ryan Seacrest
It could crash. Ready to step out of the Financial history museum@public.com you can invest in almost everything stocks, bonds, options and more. You can even put your cash to work at an industry leading 4.1% APY. Leave your clunky, outdated platform behind. Go to public.com and fund your account in five minutes or less. Paid for by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Full disclosures@public.com disclosures hey, it's Ryan Seacrest.
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Albertsons/Safeway Announcer
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