“I GOT A CEASE AND DESIST FROM POKÉMON”

Summary

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Therapy Gecko – "I GOT A CEASE AND DESIST FROM POKÉMON" (iHeartPodcasts, May 17, 2026)

Episode Overview

This episode of Therapy Gecko features two major caller conversations: Rob, who received a cease and desist order from the Pokémon Company for selling AI-generated Pokémon blankets, and Tim, a recurring caller wrestling with existential malaise, social dissatisfaction, and aimless adulthood. Host Lyle, in his unlicensed lizard psychologist persona, navigates the callers’ dilemmas while launching into characteristically candid and philosophical rants on authenticity, AI, social alienation, and the search for meaning.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rob and the Pokémon Cease and Desist (02:10–24:55)

Rob’s Story:

• Rob created and sold Pokémon-themed blankets on Etsy using AI-generated designs, earning about $30,000 in six months.
• He received a cease and desist order from the Pokémon Company and had to shut down his Etsy store, prompting a re-evaluation of his side hustles.

Lyle’s Response:

• At first intrigued, Lyle becomes critical after learning Rob used generative AI instead of original artistry.
• Lyle expresses strong opinions about generative AI, distinguishing between useful applications (e.g., medical, technical fields) and what he calls “AI slop” in creative domains.

Debate on AI in the Arts:

• Lyle’s core stance: "I have no respect for, like, they're not like making anything or doing anything... There's no art being made. There's no community being made...There's just like I, I'm not a total doomer...but there's so much, there's so much AI shit where it’s like, I just can’t." (07:05)
• He worries the proliferation of generative AI diminishes appreciation for real artists ("hopefully your cease and desist... helps the guy who's been drawing Charizard for 30 years").

On Scheming vs. Meaningful Work:

• Lyle tells Rob: “You will…long term you will make more money…doing something real” (18:19), drawing from his own experience rejecting “scheme-y” gigs for genuine creative work.
• Encourages Rob to pursue tangible local ventures, such as starting a daycare, viewing it as a path to both earning and satisfaction (“If you told me, like, oh, I run a daycare…that’s a real thing, you know, and you’ll probably make…more money and hate your life less doing a real thing.” (23:37))

Rob’s Outlook:

• Looking for a new side venture after the AI/Etsy shutdown.
• Considering fields ranging from financial advisory (noting "pyramid" scheme vibes) to early childhood education and daycare.

Notable Quotes:

• Lyle, on AI slop: "Hopefully your help—by putting out some AI bullshit thing—hopefully you're making people so burnt out by that bullshit that you're actually, in a weird way, helping the guy who's been drawing Charizard for 30 years." (11:09)
• Rob, on getting noticed: "I know I'm going to get caught eventually. And here it is. It's like I got noticed a bit by my favorite game company." (04:33)
• Lyle, on transition: “The scheme that ended up working out for me... [was] expressing myself and making videos I wanted to make. And like, it was...doing a thing that felt real to me...” (19:09)

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2. Tim: Alienation, Cope, and Joining "the Living" (28:03–77:26)

Who is Tim?

• A self-described misanthrope and recurring caller wrestling with social detachment, existential dread, and career dissatisfaction.
• Recently laid off, lives with his parents, misses independence, dreams of teaching English in Japan but remains stuck.

Conversation Flow:

• Tangents on names and memory, used to illustrate social awkwardness.
• Tim’s frank question to Lyle: “Why do you choose peacefulness over rage?” (36:04)
• Lyle’s approach: acknowledging existential anxiety but advocating against nihilistic wallowing.

On Social Discomfort and Alienation:

• Tim: “I feel like...everybody else has, you know, they have the guide. They have the rules...some sort of collection of knowledge that I don't.” (46:11)
• Lyle recognizes the “guidebook” illusion and normalizes insecurity, stressing everyone improvises life.

On Existential Dread and Coping:

• Lyle's philosophy: “I don't think life is just coping. I don't think existence is suffering. I don't think any of that shit at all.” (59:03)
• Emphasizes meaningful work and real relationships as antidotes to nihilism (60:40).

Struggles With Environment and Finances:

• Tim worries changing his environment or social routine is cost-prohibitive.
• Both discuss how existential and financial dread compound, with Tim voicing regret at being financially stuck with limited mobility.

Existence vs. Thinking About Existence:

• Lyle's goal: shift focus from constant existential rumination to “joining the living”—actively engaging with life.
• “I'd like to spend about...80% of my life like, existing and being in it. And then like 20% can be reserved for thinking about it. I'd like to spend way more time existing in life than thinking about it.” (79:28)

Notable Quotes:

• Lyle, on meaning: "The way I cope is either through insanely destructive behaviors that just, like, get me further away from the person I want to be, or through positive behaviors like doing meaningful work and engaging in meaningful relationships..." (59:48)
• Tim, on socialization: “I hate driving so much. It’s the one time in the day you’re gonna die, right?” (39:05)
• Tim, on feeling stuck: “How do you cope? Coping skills.” (58:43)
• Lyle, on existentialism: “I'm tired of this nihilistic fucking bullshit, the existential fucking bullshit. I'm tired of it. I don't want to do it anymore. I feel bad spreading it...like a fucking virus.” (59:09)
• Lyle, urging Tim: “Join the living, dude. That's been my motto for myself. Join the living...recognize that they don't have a guide. They're just the living. And join them. Just join the living.” (68:17)

Memorable Moments:

• Tim and Lyle wrestling with the absurdity of name memory and establishing "Tim" as the default name, uncovering it’s also the fake name Tim uses elsewhere (67:14).
• Technical difficulties, dropped calls—Lyle refuses to edit them out, turning awkwardness into content (35:44).
• Lyle confesses his aspiration to spend more life “existing” instead of thinking about existence, hoping to move existentialism from 90% to 20% in his mental pie chart (79:28).
• “Get off the computer, go outside, don’t kill yourself, and I agree.” (76:32) – Lyle’s tongue-in-cheek summation.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• AI Pokémon Blankets & IP Troubles: 02:10–24:55
• Generative AI Debate: 03:33–12:15
• On Meaningful Work vs. Grifts: 17:47–24:55
• Tim's Existential Dilemma: 28:03–77:26
  • On Social/Financial Alienation: 36:04–46:11
  • On Coping and Nihilism: 58:43–65:46
  • “Join the Living” and Lyle's Philosophy: 68:17–71:16
  • On Financial Barriers to Change: 71:16–75:13
  • Lyle’s Pie Chart of Life: 79:28

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Tone & Closing Thoughts

This episode is classic Therapy Gecko: conversational, messy, thoughtful, self-deprecating, and laced with humor and real feeling. Lyle alternates between playful banter and deeply honest discussion about life’s disappointments and the struggle to find meaning. The tone is candid, reflective, and earnest, with Lyle pushing both himself and his callers to strive for genuine engagement with life—despite all absurdities.

Final Wisdom:

“Join the living, dude. That’s been my motto for myself. Join the living. Recognize that they don’t have a guide. They’re just the living. And join them.” — Lyle (68:17)

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Summary Table

| Segment | Participants | Main Theme | Key Insight | |-----------------|-------------|--------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------| | Rob (AI Blankets) | Rob & Lyle | Cease & Desist, Generative AI | Authentic creativity vs. AI/"schemes" | | Tim (Existential) | Tim & Lyle | Alienation, Nihilism, Social Dread | Value of meaningful work/relationships |

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Recommended For:
Listeners wrestling with questions of authenticity, those suspicious of AI’s incursion into art, adults in arrested development, or anyone feeling existential fatigue—and looking for a little lizard-shaped hope.

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"Join the living."

Transcript

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[Rob]

Hey, what's going on?

[Lyle]

What's up man? What's your name?

[Rob]

Rob.

[Lyle]

Rob. Rob. You said that you're being sued by the Pokemon company.

[Rob]

Not sued. I gotta stop selling my product stuff.

[Lyle]

Okay, here we go. I got hit by the Pokemon company for a cease and desist because my blankets were making good money and now my Etsy store is closed and I'm Trying to figure out what I'm going to do in life. Okay, great call topic. I'm very, very invested in this. Tell me about how you got started making Pokemon blankets.

[Rob]

Well, I was just trying to like, figure out my own kind of side hustle and I started designing stuff through AI And I really love the Pokemon stuff. Like sleeping Pokemon starts laughing on some blankets and boom.

[Lyle]

Okay. I have instantly think this is about 100% less cool now.

[Tim]

Fair enough.

[Lyle]

Okay. All right. You totally all. Okay. Okay.

[Tim]

Wow.

[Lyle]

I thought this was gonna be. I thought I was gonna be. I thought this was gonna be awesome. And now I'm like, you absolutely. You deserve the cease and desist.

[Rob]

You.

[Lyle]

I'm glad your Etsy store has been closed. And by the way, I talk about it. I talk about AI a lot. I talk about AI a fair amount on the show. I know. Like, like I use the chatbots and stuff. Like, I, like there's helpful shit in there, but I despise generative AI. Like AI like, can be helpful for certain shit, but like generative AI to like make art. I. I despise that. Did you like, do like, what did you. What did you do? Like, did you make any changes or anything?

[Rob]

I'd go on a little bit, right? Because like, it can only go so far. So I'd be on programs and edited and stuff like that. But just like the general basis of like the artwork and stuff, I take that and then kind of intermingle it with different backgrounds or change what they did a bit.

[Lyle]

Damn, I'm so disappointed, man. I read that text. I thought this was going to be like fighting the man.

[Rob]

I'm like, I know I'm going to get caught eventually. And here it is. And I was like, oh, you know, like, this is a little bit cooler. It's just like I got noticed a bit by my favorite game company.

[Lyle]

I do think that is the interesting thing about the C synthesis is like, yeah, you got noticed

[Rob]

a hundred percent. I'm like, damn, must have did something right besides use AI.

[Lyle]

No, no, I think this was. How much money did you make doing this?

[Rob]

What was it through the. About a half a year? About 30 grand.

[Lyle]

You made 30 grand in six months?

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

By making AI generated Pokemon blankets?

[Rob]

Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

[Lyle]

You, you deserve that cease and desist so much. You deserve that cease and desist. Like, like this is what. Like, Cuz, you know, cuz like sometimes, right, like people will make like, like, like, like I'm a huge Smash Bros fan and people will make like, cool mods of, like, Smash Bros. Or they'll make, like, their own. Like, you know, like, there's all these, like, fan Pokemon games, right? And like, like, there's people who are, like, they really care about the. Like, they really care about the ip, they really care about the games. And they're, like, making these really cool, like, fan games or this really cool fan art, and they get hit by cease and desists. And, like, that's a bummer. That makes you go, like, Nintendo. You're the kind of person who the cease and desist is totally for that it up for the people who are, like, actually trying to make

[Rob]

no I 100. God. I was just doing it while I was bored. I'd, like, pump one out once in a while, go and once in a while and see what happens. And yeah, now it's here. I was like, all right, what do I do now?

[Lyle]

Also, I'm also, I'm very surprised by this because it's so dumb that you made $30,000 doing this because A, there must be 800 trillion. First of all, there must be 80 billion people out there who are, like, making Pokemon fan merch like, that are, like actual artists that are, like, making shit that's, like, good. And like, why. And A, wouldn't. Why wouldn't people buy their shit instead of your shit? And then B, there's probably like 80 billion scammer guys like you making, like, an AI fucking, like, bullshit thing. Why wouldn't they buy. Why would they buy your AI bullshit and not some other person's AI bullshit?

[Rob]

Yeah, I know. Like, one thing I think is just, like, what it looks like too, right? Like, the design of it maybe is what drew it. But yeah, it was a crazy process through the year. I was like, damn,

[Lyle]

dude, why don't you, like, dude, every time I meet, every time I meet, I meet I. I like in New York, I mean, I meet a lot of, like, AI folks who are like. And like, I, like, like, I'll be real, like, I, you, I, you. I don't use AI to, like, I don't like generative AI, but, like, you know, when I, when I have, like, a weird bump on my foot, you know, I'm not going to say I don't go into Gemini and be like, what's this weird bump on my foot? But when people are like, there's some of the. I meet people all the time are like, oh, I'm developing an AI app that does this thing. And they'll tell me about it. And I'm like, There's. That does not need to fucking exist. Like, there's so much, there's so much AI shit where it's like I, I just can't. I have no respect for like they're not like making anything or doing anything. They're just making these tools that don't do anything. There's no art being made. There's a community being made. There's no like story being told. There's no like, it's just, there's just, there's just like I, I'm not a total doomer and I'm not like total anti. Like, like I'm sure that like in the fucking medical field or the, the whatever, like there's applicable good uses of the technology. But the tech. I, I hate that I'm not like completely, utterly, fully anti AI everything but like there's so many industries and. But what, what I really hate is that it's applied needlessly to everything. And people think that like not every fucking industry is enhanced by technology, especially like the arts. And like it'd be ignorant to say that there's no use for it. Like, you know, like, whatever. Like the medical field. Fucking. I don't know, like accounting? What like law? I don't know. There's some where it's like, yeah, I would trust the computer more to do than like a human. But like the, the fact that like people apply it to everything. Like oh, there's an AI dating app, there's an AI friend maker thing or an AI like, you know, gener or like AI generated Pokemon shit. It's like that stuff doesn't need to, you know, like the technology just. People have this stupid way of feeling like a. Literally it must be applied to every facet of human existence. I'm hopeful, I am, I am hopeful that like the facets of human existence where it actually can be applied for, for some form of benefit will be the ones that are left over and then the ones that are total bullshit. Like, like AI Pokemon blankets and like AI movies and shit will. People will like. I do, I, I do think that like human taste will prevail and that shit will not be around anymore. You know, like the, the actual use cases that are good for society that people actually want will, Will remain. But like the AI slop shit, I think people get tired of it and it'll bring back. You know, I hope that your cease and desist, like somehow clears room for like other. You know, like there's. There's some out there who's been drawing charizard since he was like 3, and now he's like 32 and he draws. And now he's 32 and he draws, like, the coolest Charizard shit in the world. Like that guy. Hopefully, like, the. All the AI bullshit. Hopefully. Hopefully your help, like, by. By putting out some AI bullshit thing. Hopefully you're making people so burnt out by that bullshit that you're actually, in a weird way, helping the. The guy who's been drawing Charizard for 30 years. Because they're like, I want to buy a real thing from, like, a real artist. But I don't know if that's true. Anyway, I went on a whole rant about AI instead of this.

[Rob]

I get it. And like, the craziest part too is like, you're right, it's everywhere. And seeing how it's progressed, like, I'm starting to get stuck on those TikTok stories where it's all AI generated and just how it progressed in the two years. I'm like, I can see how Netflix is hopping on this bandwagon. And it's just, we're gonna have to go through so much crap to get polished stuff.

[Lyle]

You're contributing to it.

[Rob]

I gotta hop on some bandwagon. And that was one of them.

[Lyle]

I mean, we do, we do. We do live in a society where it's like, yeah, if I have an opportunity to make money by. I. We do live. I don't fully blame you because we do live in a society where it's like, if I have the opportunity to make money in by fucking, you know, doing AI, Pokemon, blankets, like, whatever.

[Rob]

Another example I use. Oh, I don't mean to cut you out.

[Lyle]

Oh, well, I just. It's more on my ramp. Like. Yeah, like how net. Like Netflix, AI. Yeah, that's just another example of, like, every company needlessly. I mean, dude, it happened with, like. I feel like it happened with, like, Web3 and like, NFTs and shit like that, where, like, it was. It was so hot. And every company in everything in the world, like, everyone on the planet was like, how do I integrate this shit into my shit? Because just because it was hot, right? And that's what everyone's doing right now with AI. But I don't. I think. I think people will come to realize that not every facet of human society is made better with it. I mean, there will be some facets of human society that are made better with it, but, like, not. Not 99.99% as people like to believe, but go ahead. Sorry. What Were you saying?

[Rob]

Yeah, I'm just curious where it goes because like, I bring up the example, like IKEA furniture, right? Like that's for the mass consumerism of it. And a lot of people would be like, well, that's taken away from people who do it by hand. Sure.

[Lyle]

I mean, there, there, there, I, I, I, I see a world where like, I mean, yeah, I see, I mean, I mean, I don't just see a world. I mean, we, we, we, we, we live in this world where like AI slot bullshit, like, does actual art, you know, like people still do go to see movies in the, in the theater. Like there is still value placed in actual art on the very same day that like, you know, a person can be on the toilet looking at tick tock bullshit. They can like, you know, still go to a play or whatever. Wait, so what are you gonna do with your life now?

[Rob]

Well, right now I'm back to just working away and raising the kids until I kind of start something else out of the side hustle.

[Tim]

But

[Rob]

yeah, that was the craziest one, was just playing around with that stuff and seeing it grow and then try to do some parent kind of products. But that didn't work out so well. So I'm just taking a break from side hustles.

[Lyle]

It'd be very funny if your children were just like AI chatbots that you programmed to call you dad.

[Rob]

And then I see the lamp.

[Lyle]

And then I see the lamp.

[Rob]

That's a reference to find out they're not real.

[Lyle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How old are your kids?

[Rob]

Seven and five.

[Lyle]

Okay. Do your kids like Pokemon?

[Rob]

They're getting more into it, but I think it's just more of a, they know their dad loves it.

[Lyle]

Would you buy an AI Pokemon blanket for your kid?

[Rob]

We got a few at home of my own. But I mean, if it looked good, like my kind of feel, I probably would.

[Tim]

Huh.

[Lyle]

I'm sorry, what did you, I don't know if you told me this already, but what did you do for, like, to make money before this?

[Rob]

I just warehouse him.

[Lyle]

Okay. Why don't you, like, I mean, you can make, you can make more money doing a real thing.

[Rob]

Well, like, I'm still doing warehousing. It's just like it's been 10 years of it. Like I was ready to do something else and that kind of boom, I'm like, ah, back to square one.

[Lyle]

So what's, what's your next scheme?

[Rob]

What's my next game? I don't know. I was looking at financial advisory. That seemed like pretty Sneaky stuff.

[Lyle]

What do you mean? Financial advisory?

[Rob]

You know, the people who sell you, like life insurance or RRSPs. I keep getting. A lot of people are like, you should join this. And I'm like, oh, the pyramid.

[Lyle]

All right, dude, why don't you do a. Like, why don't you do a real thing? I. I do. By the way, this is, this goes out to. By the way. Actually, you know what? I'm. I'm. Okay, hold on. I'm gonna get on my, like on my. I'm gonna get on some entrepreneur bro right now with this. Because I do, I. I fully mean this. And this is just like, this is my experience in my own life. You will, I do believe, like, long term you will make more money. Like, if you want to do your own thing, you will make more money doing something real. Like before I, like before I was doing the therapy gecko and I was like, before I was doing therapy, I was like 19. You know, it's funny, 10 years ago when I was like 18, 19, selling a. If like AI was booming at the time that I was like 19, I probably would have been the kind of guy who was selling AI Pokemon blankets. Because, like, I remember at that age, I just remember having this feeling that I think a lot of people have now. This feeling of just like, oh, fuck, I'm about to enter into the world and like, I need to find a way to have money or else I'm fudged. So like, let me just scheme around endlessly and try to find out like, what the best scheme is to like, make a living. And like, I don't, I don't think any of those. Like, I was like, I didn't do anything schemey, but it was like, it was like, oh, I'll make like social media videos for dentists or whatever, or I'll like, you know, or like Airbnb Arbitrage or just like stuff that's like, scheme, y', know, stuff that like, there's no real value to it that's being created. It's just kind of like a scheme. And then like the. The scheme that ended up like working out for me and making me able to make a living is like, you know, do it inter. Having having conversations with people about, like, having having conversations with real human beings about, like, and like, you know, expressing myself and making videos I wanted to make. And like, it was, it was the. The. And I've probably made a way better living, like doing a thing that felt like, real to me than I would have made like, doing Some crypto real estate fucking, like, bull bullshit fucking thing. So, like, the whole, like, scheme. I do think the whole, like, scheme. Let me figure out a thing to do. This just for money thing.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

You.

[Lyle]

I do. I end up. You think you end up making less money than if you just, like, are like, oh, what do I actually want to do? And like, what would actually be, like, helpful or expressive of mine or, like, you know, is there a local business I could start or a thing like, you know. You know what I'm saying?

[Rob]

Yeah, I hear you. It's just right back to step one, right?

[Tim]

Like, what is it?

[Rob]

The wife just quit her job, so it's just staying floating and then working weekends. I just. I have a bunch of time, but I'm just looking. That popped off. I was like, oh, this would be funny to tell gek

[Lyle]

but just for. For your next venture. I don't know. That's the only. I just. That's the only thing, like, for the next adventure is like, is it like, what? Like, is there anything real that you want to do?

[Rob]

Well, right now, I was looking into early childhood education.

[Lyle]

Yeah, there we go.

[Rob]

You know, daycare. And then, yeah, I was one of

[Tim]

them,

[Lyle]

like, starting a daycare.

[Tim]

Great.

[Rob]

So it's just been a slow process, as, like I said, the wife just lost, had to switch her job. And we're figuring stuff out, but get the education going and see how that goes.

[Lyle]

See that to be great. Like, if you. See. If you started. See, you're not gonna get a. That would be hilarious if you had, like, pictures of Pikachu up on this. Because this happens to people. Like, if you started daycare and you have, like, pictures of Pikachu up on the wall or whatever, like, and you get, like, a cease and desist from Pokemon again.

[Rob]

Right. We're shutting down your facilities. Sorry, kids.

[Lyle]

Dude, that does have. That happens to people with, like. Dude. Like, you'll have a picture of, like, Simba from the Lion King up at, like, your preschool, and, like, Disney will come and take it down.

[Rob]

I've heard stuff like that. I even heard that. I think my stuff got caught because they went through a huge thing towards everybody. Like, if you have pokey in it, they were just like, cease and desist. Mm.

[Lyle]

But I like the daycare id because that's. See, that's a. If you. If you told me, like, oh, I run a daycare. It's like, that's a real thing, you know, and you'll probably make. I really like what you were making, like, five grand a Month doing the AI. Was that. Was that in revenue or profit?

[Rob]

Revenue.

[Lyle]

Okay. You'll probably make more money and hate your life less doing a real thing.

[Rob]

Fair enough. Even right now, I'm doing like, before and after school care. And it's crazy money there too. Like I said, it's just. That was the silly thing that popped off and I was like, oh, shit. Well,

[Lyle]

I like the daycare idea. That's cool. Also this. It's fun. It's like a physical. It's like a physical space. There's like art. There's like cool, fun, interesting ways to be businessy about it and be creative about it. It's cool. I like, I. I think this is. I think this is an evolution for you. I'm excited,

[Rob]

I don't know, picture and being on the. You know what, like in Hawaii or something. But no, you're right. There's more satisfaction between, like, the difference between it.

[Lyle]

Yeah, of course. What's your name again, man?

[Tim]

Rob.

[Lyle]

Rob. Rob. Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Live life. Enjoy it to your fullest. And peace out.

[Lyle]

Thanks, Rob. See you around the universe.

[Tim]

See you, Geck.

[Lyle]

I feel like I did a lot of ranting on this episode. I'm gonna probably put this call before the. Okay, so I recorded this call before the call that you're a. Wait, no, I recorded this call after the call that you're about to hear. And I ranted a lot on that one too. I felt like ranting a lot today. Okay. Next episode, I'm gonna not rant as much. Or I will. I'm not sure. Okay. All right, let's. Let's take the other call. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts. Why did I search the Internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that.

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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokered Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures hello.

[Tim]

Holy.

[Lyle]

What's up man? What's your name?

[Rob]

Fuck.

[Tim]

What is my name?

[Lyle]

All right, your name is Tim. I'm calling you Tim. Here's what I've noticed is when people tell me their names, I forget them. But if I make up a name, I remember it. Now that's a. That's a strategy. Making up someone, choosing a name for someone so that you remember it is a strategy that you can only really use if you're hosting an anonymous call in show. You can't really do it if you're at a party, like if you're friends, like if your friends invite you out to like a show or something or like a bar and they're like, you know, come meet my friends. And you know, you meet a guy and he goes hey, my name's Adam. You can't go, oh, your name is Tim. I'm going to say that I'm going to choose all of you. I mean, you can do that. If I met someone at a bar and I told them my name was Lyle and they said, actually I'm going to call you Brian because I can remember that easier, I would totally roll with that. I would be like, this is the most interesting. I don't know, this is not the kind of person that I could really keep around in my life for a long amount of time. But I would roll with it. I would be like, this is an interesting person. I want to know more about them for an evening and then probably not have them in my life recurringly, but at least I would be interested in them for that one bit of time. Like the kind of person who does that, like, who is that person? You know?

[Tim]

I feel like I disagree with that. I feel the opposite way.

[Lyle]

Really? Tell me more.

[Tim]

I don't know. I feel like in. There's some scenarios where I could, I could be interested in that. I could be based on the vibe of either the person or maybe the myself or the environment. But I. I feel like I might be disrespected

[Lyle]

interested. Well, well, that's cuz you're taking it per. There's no, there's no reason to take that personally. You understand that, right? Like it, like they might, you might feel disrespected. But that's, that's stupid to feel disrespected in that moment because clearly whatever's going on, like if you meet someone for the first time and you say my name is, you know, whatever your name is, and they say, I'm actually, I'm sorry, I'm bad at remembering names. I'm gonna call you Brian instead, so I can remember that. And you feel disrespected by that, I think, I think that's dumb because clearly that person is like a little insane. And that has nothing to do with you. You know what I mean? Like, you can't. I. It's pretty impossible, I think, to be disrespected by a person that you have zero relationship with, you know?

[Tim]

Yeah, no, I, I see your point. I see. That's very understandable.

[Lyle]

But I. And if someone did, I'm. I love. I mean, that's why I do the show, I guess, is I like, I'm interested in crazy folks. I met a woman at a bar.

[Tim]

Do you think I'm. I feel disrespected by you because you're

[Lyle]

calling me Tim, do I think that you feel disrespected by me, by me calling you Tim?

[Tim]

Yes.

[Lyle]

I don't know. And I'm not really interested in that because this is an. Because our relationship in this is that of an anonymous call in thing and name. I don't like, the names are not really important to me in this space.

[Tim]

That's alpha male behavior.

[Lyle]

But, well, I was. Oh, I met a lady at a bar the other day, and she was talking about how homosexuality is a sin. And I was like, And I've. And like, you know, you know that those people exist, right? You know that they exist on, like, the Internet and stuff. I was like. But I was like, oh, this is interesting. I, I, maybe it's because I grew. I didn't grow up. I mean, I know people grew up in, like, you know, more rural parts of the country and stuff, but I was like, oh, this. I've never met a person who actually believes that. And I want. And I was like, I'm very curious why you think that. You know, and I don't know, there's a thing of, like, just when people display behavior that's like, bizarre or uncout. I don't know if that's a word or not, but I'm like, oh, why are they. What.

[Rob]

Who.

[Lyle]

What is. I'm like, I become observational. You know, I'm, I don't take any, I try not to take shit personally at all. I just want to observe them and, And I'm curious. I mean, I guess that's the thesis of the podcast is like, I'm just curious.

[Tim]

Yeah, I told you.

[Lyle]

Well, I mean, we can get. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Well, we can get into it. What? Do you feel disrespected by me calling you Tim?

[Tim]

No, absolutely not. Lyle. Lyle. I'm a long time listener. This is actually my second time taking a call from you. The last time we took a call, it got dropped because I was using somebody else's phone and they called that phone during the. And it's happening again right now.

[Lyle]

What's happening again right now?

[Tim]

That somebody is calling me while you are on the phone with me. Let it go to voicemail.

[Lyle]

Yeah, let it go. Who's the last. So we didn't really get. We didn't actually really talk whenever you last called. Okay, great, great. I, but, you know, I. Okay. So, Tim.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

You, you texted me a lot of stuff. Yep. You've texted me a lot of stuff. We can talk about all of it. Why not?

[Tim]

Oh, fuck I don't know if we should talk about all of it.

[Lyle]

Let's see. Okay, well, the first text you sent me was a year and a half ago. You said, the amount of weed my grandfather smokes makes me feel like I'll be 75 years old, still smoking weed. Okay, he hung up again. All right, see, he did the thing where the call dropped. Hold on, we're not. I'm not even gonna cut this part out because this is central to the story of talking to this caller.

[Tim]

Let me.

[Lyle]

We'll call them back. Hold on. I have their. I. Sometimes I can call people back, sometimes they can't. What the hell happened to this guy? Why is he doing this? It's cuz the call dropped. Hello?

[Tim]

Hello? Lyle?

[Lyle]

Hey, are you back?

[Tim]

I am back.

[Lyle]

Okay, wait, why'd that happen again?

[Tim]

Because people keep calling me. I don't know, it's like a universal sign that we can't talk to each other.

[Lyle]

What do you. What do you mean that people. That's not how a phone works. That people call you? Can phones give you the authority to choose?

[Tim]

Yes. Your phone can't force me. And somehow the phone call dropped. I don't know what to tell you.

[Rob]

I don't know how you are.

[Lyle]

Your phone can't force you to talk to someone.

[Tim]

And I didn't. I didn't accept the call.

[Lyle]

All right, we're going to do this. Whatever. I'll just keep calling you back. I don't care. We're going to have this conversation and I'm not. And every time the call drops. I'm not gonna edit out. We're just gonna. I mean, we'll stitch it all together,

[Tim]

but, you know, those are actually, as a viewer, my favorite type of call.

[Lyle]

Okay, good, good, good. Wait, what? The calls were calls where nothing happens and it drops a lot.

[Tim]

Well, I like. I like to hear your un unfiltered thoughts on, you know, whatever situation is happening.

[Lyle]

Okay, you. Here's what you said. All right? Here's what you really. Here's what you said on Thursday. You said, lyle, how are you not angry? Listening to all these stories? Going to these corners of the world? Do the miraculous bits of humanity outweigh the stain left by the majority? I have a feeling I know how you'll answer, if at all. Why do you choose peacefulness over rage?

[Tim]

I did. I did say that because quite frankly, I. I just. I'm tired of a lot of aspects of the world and of society.

[Lyle]

Yeah, you sound misanthropic.

[Tim]

I actually don't Know what that word means?

[Lyle]

Misanthropic is like someone who has a general distaste for people and humanity.

[Tim]

Well, yeah, that kind of describes me.

[Lyle]

Okay, why do you have a general distaste for people in humanity?

[Tim]

I don't know. I feel like maybe. Maybe it has to do with. I never fit in, I guess, widely accepted by peers or even family.

[Lyle]

Okay, so we're talking now about a dissatisfaction with your place in the world rather than the world itself.

[Tim]

Yeah, but I think they kind of feed into each other at this point in my life.

[Lyle]

Okay, okay, but. Okay, so I want to. I will get into your place in the world. But this thing of, like, do. Okay, this part of your message. Do the miraculous bits of humanity outweigh the stain left by the majority? What do you like? What do you mean? What kind of stain? What is the stain?

[Tim]

I feel like it's just all the.

[Rob]

The.

[Tim]

The aspects of maybe socializing or even communicating with other people, but just. I find unnecessary, unnecessary, unnecessary and quite frankly, grueling to go through.

[Lyle]

Oh, just socialization. Socialization is agonizing.

[Tim]

Oh, for sure.

[Lyle]

And how long have you felt that way?

[Tim]

Most of my life, I would say. I don't really remember not feeling that way.

[Lyle]

Do you have any people in your life that you like talking? To?

[Rob]

A few.

[Lyle]

Okay, who are they?

[Tim]

I have some friends from, you know, high school or even college, you know, people I play video games with. I don't really go to see them anymore. It's kind of tough. I don't really. I hate. I. I hate driving, too. I know you don't. I don't know if you don't like driving. I know you prefer walkable areas. I hate driving so much. It's the one time in the day you're gonna die, right?

[Lyle]

Yes.

[Tim]

I think about it. That's exactly statistically most likely to. To perish. And we're all forced to do it.

[Lyle]

Yes. I feel that so deeply. I think it's so insane how much we've normalized this thing that is so easy to die doing is such a daily part of our existence in America.

[Tim]

And I won't. I won't, like, act naive and say, like, we haven't improved in terms of safety and regulation and manufacturing the cars themselves, you know, how they're, like, collapsible now so that you're more likely to live. I guess that's the science.

[Lyle]

Hmm. I keep hearing. I'm keeping in all, you know, by your request. I'm keeping in all of these technical difficulty questions. I Keep hearing myself, like, a feedback every time I talk.

[Tim]

I'm sorry, Lyle. Can I. Can I just.

[Lyle]

I.

[Tim]

That's because I. I'm, like, actively doing something for my mom.

[Lyle]

Okay, hold on. You can't. If you're. All right, just. If we're gonna. I. You can't. I can't. You can't apologize for the phone but then also be doing something. Wait, hold on. What do you do. What do you. What do you. Are you doing?

[Tim]

Million text messages. My mom loves to listens to the show.

[Lyle]

You're a walking contradiction. You hate people, and yet you're talking to me while also talking to a bunch of other people on text.

[Tim]

Not my choice. Not by choice.

[Lyle]

Yes, it is.

[Tim]

You're my choice. You're my choice.

[Lyle]

Why do you have. Hold on. Okay, who's texting you right now, and why do you have to respond to it right now? It's a genuine question.

[Tim]

It's my mother, and she needed something for my father related to his. Related to his work.

[Rob]

So.

[Tim]

And it was immediate. They were at. They were at. He does stuff with cars, so they were at a business. They were at, like, this tire place, and he needed a picture of the size of his tire.

[Lyle]

All right, that's a good enough. That's a good enough explanation of that.

[Tim]

I'm sorry, Lyall.

[Lyle]

You don't have to. You don't have to apologize. You don't have to apologize. Wait, am I on the speakerphone still? We're not cutting any of this out. Am I on the speakerphone?

[Tim]

No, not anymore.

[Lyle]

Okay. Who do you. Who do you talk to the most in this life? Is your mom.

[Tim]

No.

[Lyle]

Who do you talk to the most?

[Tim]

That's a good question. At this point, probably this one friend I have that I play video games with.

[Lyle]

Okay. Do you like them?

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rob]

Mostly.

[Lyle]

Okay. What the. All right, we're. No. We're doing this podcast. I'm not letting whatever the fuck is going on with this happen. We're doing it.

[Tim]

Okay.

[Rob]

I'm sorry.

[Lyle]

All right, so you know what? I forgive you. We're. No, no, we're doing this. We're doing this phone call. I'm determined. I will find where you live, I will walk there, and we will have the. We're doing this. I can do anything I set my mind to, and so can you. Okay? You have one friend. You play video games with him, but you're in. So you okay this text. And by the way, just so you know, because you sent me at the end of the text, you Were like, why do you choose peacefulness over rage? And just so you know, I totally, I totally. All the time. I mean, you fuck, you listen to the show. You know, I have an insane amount of existential dread and shit. It's like all the time. All the time. I do genuinely look at the world and I look at like crazy shit and I do wonder, I'm like, how is like, is life worth living for a lot of people? Like, because most people. Cuz like, I don't know, man, I live in fucking. I mean, we let you live in America, right?

[Tim]

I do, I do. I live on the east coast as well.

[Lyle]

You live on the East Coast? Are you like, how'd you grow? Did you grow up like dick? Did you have enough money to like, did you have enough money to like eat food and stuff?

[Tim]

Yes, I didn't grow up, you know, poor or. Yeah, like low class. I'm saying that poorly. I meant that I grew up fortunate. Lucky.

[Lyle]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I feel like most of the, I feel like I do get existential about the thing of like I most, you know, I grew up like, I grew up pretty good in America and it's like for most of human history in most places, I think like life has low key sucked. But I also think, yeah, life is low key sucked. And I have wonder. I'm like, why is like, oh fuck, that's kind of crazy. Like, is that not? But also like society has kept going and people keep living and like there is good, there is like things that are like inherent about the human experience and about just like the body in general that make it want to keep being alive. And like, I don't know, there's like, like there's some dude living in like, you know, poverty in India who like, their life like I guess on paper sucks, but they're not. Like, I don't, but like, are they. I don't know if they're in. I don't know, I don't know if. But they, but they, there are. What am I trying to say? There are probably people who still figure out, just figure out how to like live life and figure out like their own version of happiness that's much less, less complex than like, whatever the, you know, Western, modern American, you have everything, everything's great version of finding happiness is, you know. I don't know. What do you think?

[Tim]

I don't know. I, I get what you're saying to, to Honestly, it feels very relatable. The more I think about it, the more I feel about it. It's it feels like everybody else has, you know.

[Lyle]

Everybody else has what?

[Tim]

How to. Has like a. You know, they have the guide. They have like the video game guide or they have the. They have the rules, they have everything. Some sort of collection of knowledge that I don't.

[Lyle]

What are you looking for a guide to?

[Tim]

What am I not looking a guide for, Lyle? Socializing, for one. What isn't there, guys? Wealth building. I know that's like you're not a Dave Ramsey type, but you kind of are at the same time, you know, whatever. I know you always talk about going to a spot, finding a spot to go to.

[Lyle]

Yeah, sure.

[Tim]

Going there and not developing friends. Right?

[Lyle]

Yeah, it's great.

[Tim]

Kind of like the key code. But I don't know, it's just like I hate driving. I hate people. No matter where I go, I find a reason to hate them. Uh huh.

[Lyle]

Well, I'm actually, I actually am familiar with the idea. I'm very familiar with the idea of feeling like everyone else has the guidebook on how to live. Like, I definitely. I. Yeah, like, I'm very familiar with the idea of like, oh fuck. Why is, why do I. Why does everyone else feel like they're a normal human being and I just don't know how to fucking do it. But I, I don't really have the answers. But like, but there is, there really is no guidebook, you know, I mean, you know this, you know that there's no fucking like guide. But I can tell, I can tell that you're. I can tell you're an existential. You know, there's no objective way to, you know, there's no objective way to do anything. Right? I mean, you can decide how you want to live your life. Now listen, if. If you want to like, let yourself be, if you want to like feed the wolves of all of your worst shit, then you're probably going to end up like alone and isolated. And that's. I don't know if that's like healthy, but you also can't. Yeah, but you also. The thing of like, I. It's hard because I'm. I naturally am someone who like wants to be around people. Not like a hundred percent of the time, all the time. Like, I'm a very ambiverted, I guess is the fucking word. But like, I'm trying. I think that like a space for you to exist and like a group of people that you identify with is out there, it just must be created or found in some way, you know, Because I don't know, dude, we're like, I get. I get being, like, antisocial and being an introvert. Like, I know it's a thing. I know that. It's like, it's like, it's kind of popular. Like, like, it's like a. It's like a millennial cringe core thing to be. Like, ugh, I hate people. People suck. You know what I mean?

[Tim]

Yeah. And that's the worst part, too. It's like, you can't. You can't exist in that space publicly because then it's like, it's millennial core. Like you said, it's cringe. No one wants to be around it, and no one wants to be perceived as it either.

[Lyle]

No, I don't think. I don't actually think that that's an. I don't think that, like, oh, people. People suck is an unpopular sentiment. I think a lot of people. I actually think it's more. I think it's popular to be like, oh, people suck. Life's the worst. You know, I love. I got my TV at home and I. And I order takeout. I got my cat, and life is good. Like, I think that that's. I think that's a popular sentiment. And, and by the way, if you're. If you are saying that shit and, like, you are happy and you genuinely are happy that to kind of tie it back to, like, the guide, right? Like, if you have your fucking cat and your pizza and your TV and you are genuinely happy with that, like, that's the rhythm. Like, you get to decide what the rhythm of your life is. Like, and if that's the rhythm of your life that you fuck with, like, that's fine, but I. Is that. But is that the case? Like, when you think about that rhythm of life, like, do you actually. Do you. Are you whole? Do you resonate with that?

[Tim]

I mean, I'd like that rhythm of life if, you know, my. All my bills were paid and I had money and I lived alone, you know, and I had a harem.

[Lyle]

Shut the up, dude. What are you talking. You had. You know what I mean?

[Tim]

Like, if everything else was in line, then, yeah, I'd love to be totally.

[Lyle]

Oh, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I thought. I'm sorry. You want to have. I'm sorry, I thought you said. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I thought you said you. You had it. You have a harem. I thought you want to have it. You okay about it? Okay, never mind. I thought you said you. I thought you said you have a harem. I. Okay, you want to have a harem. Okay. That's way more reasonable. Okay.

[Tim]

Hmm.

[Lyle]

Okay. But like I don't know where but yeah, but like sure, yeah sure but where, but like where are you? Where are you at?

[Tim]

I'm stuck in a job that I just got laid off from that I have to finish my contract out in my parents house that, you know, barely tolerate my presence.

[Lyle]

Your parents barely tolerate your presence?

[Tim]

I'm over exaggerating. They listen to this podcast.

[Lyle]

Your parents listen to the podcast?

[Tim]

My mom does. Yeah.

[Lyle]

That's funny. Who discovered it first?

[Rob]

Me.

[Lyle]

That's funny.

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[Lyle]

a long, bumpy road dealing with yet another bladder infection and driving to the pharmacy to pick up meds. I went over a pothole and a little pee came out. So now I get to stand in line with pee pee pants.

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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It's it screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities. Completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services is by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures.

[Lyle]

Hold on. You have other things you wanted to talk about? Oh, okay, here we go.

[Tim]

Maybe don't read all those.

[Lyle]

Oh, okay. Well, I don't know which ones you want me to not read. You said daddy issues.

[Tim]

Well, I don't even know what I said, to be honest with you. I'm not looking at the text. I'm just like trying to keep. For the best listening experience. I'm not moving my hand.

[Lyle]

All right, how about this? If I'll have this, I'll read a text and if it resonates with you, we can talk about it. Does daddy issues resonate with you in this?

[Tim]

Absolutely.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Tim]

All right.

[Lyle]

You sent me that two years ago.

[Tim]

That was clickbait. That was clickbait.

[Lyle]

All right, all right, how about this? I'm being guilt tripped into going to a wedding. Does that resonate?

[Tim]

Oh yeah, that 100% resonates with me.

[Lyle]

Are you still going or wait, did you end up going to the wedding?

[Tim]

I had to.

[Lyle]

How was it?

[Tim]

Awful.

[Lyle]

Why was it awful?

[Tim]

I don't like my family.

[Lyle]

Is it a family wedding?

[Tim]

I don't like my. Immediately. Yeah, it was my immediate, immediate family and I don't really appreciate or care for them, but I think the feeling is mutual.

[Lyle]

So why did you go to this wedding?

[Tim]

Because I depend on my parents household and I was told either go or get kicked out.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Tim]

So.

[Lyle]

All right, so you're trying to. You, you're trying to get. You're trying. You're trying to like start living your own life. It sounds you want to get out of your parents house. Okay, I feel like this conversation is going to dive us into a Dave Ramsey conversation, which I actually want.

[Tim]

I know and I know you kind of hate that and I don't really want to bring you there if you don't want to go there, but that's just. That's but that's my situation. I'm upset about a lot of things now. I'm upset about a lot of things politically, economically, financially, whatever.

[Lyle]

Okay. I want to talk to you about traveling to Japan as a teacher. Oh, did you do the Japan teaching thing? You got waitlisted? What is it, the JET program? That's the English teacher Japan thing. Dude. I have a friend in real life that I actually. You know what's funny? I have a friend in real life that you remind me exactly of.

[Tim]

That's crazy. We probably would be friends in real life.

[Lyle]

Yeah, I know.

[Tim]

You're close enough to my age there. There's seven, right?

[Lyle]

I'm. I'm 28. There's a friend of mine. Yeah, there's a friend of mine. He went to be a teacher in Japan. He dreams of having a harem. He's got a cat. He doesn't. He's a little bit of an introvert now. Okay, you know what? All right, all right. How about this? All right, you. Which. What? Let me. What's. Tim. There we go. Tim. Where. What avenue would you like this conversation to go down? Preferably to you.

[Tim]

How do you cope? How do you cope? Last.

[Lyle]

How do I cope?

[Tim]

Yeah, I'm coping skills.

[Lyle]

Well, I have. I have many. I have my life as is actually perhaps existence as a whole for everyone is a series of coping and. No, no, no, no. I take that back. I take that back. You know, I take that back. I'm tired of this nihilistic fucking bullshit, the existential fucking bullshit. I'm tired of it. I don't want to do it anymore. I feel bad spreading it on the podcast to other people like a fucking virus. I, I, The. I don't think life is just coping. I don't think existence is suffering. I don't think any of that shit at all. But I do. Yeah, there. But yes, life had. It is hard. I undeniably do think the life is, like, hard. I don't know if it inherently has to be, but to answer your question, the way I cope is either through insanely destructive behaviors that just, like, kind of fuck my life up and get me further away from the person I want to be, or through positive behaviors like doing meaningful work and engaging in meaningful relationships. And a lot of my life is a struggle between the ideal version of myself that primarily copes through engaging in meaningful work and meaningful relationships versus the version of myself that copes with destructive behaviors. So that. That's my answer to that question. I don't think existence is suffering. I don't think that life is a series of coping. I hate all that nihilistic shit. I think it's stupid. I want to. Yeah, like, I think it's stupid after, like, marinating in it for so. I just think it's so dumb to be, like, nihilistic and existential. Is this.

[Tim]

Even if it's like, positive nihilism. I know sometimes you kind of ride that high.

[Lyle]

I try to, but I just don't want this. Don't want to. And it's just exhausting. It's just stupid. It has no. You know what? I actually. Did you watch the. I made this documentary in Ukraine. Do you. You didn't watch that, did you?

[Tim]

I actually haven't yet. I've been.

[Lyle]

I watched. I made this documentary. I went to Ukraine to make this documentary and I. This guy Roman was showing me around and he went on this whole rant to me about, like, why he thinks that nihilism and existentialism is so, like, stupid and why he, like, whatever. He just went on this rant to me about it and I was like, man, this guy, like, you know, his fucking, like, family is dying in a war. And like, he see, like, he's like, his, like. This guy's childhood was so much more fucked up than mine. This guy's, like, seen so much more fucked up shit than I have. And, like, he still is. And he's not like a wallower or like, oh, life is suffering and how do we cope with it? He's just, like, living his life and, like, doing and making art and, like, being and existing and, like, just having a good time. And like, that's what. That's what I want to be. I don't want to be like a fucking nihilistic wallower anymore. It's just not.

[Tim]

I guess for me that's back to the guidebook, you know, it feels like he has the guidebook that. The guy that has the guidebook. And I kind of have a person like that in my life who. Who's definitely like, yeah, I've had way more happen to me than the word than regular people or other people who are like me. And it's like, if I could do it, then you can do it, you

[Lyle]

know, Dude, I listen, like this. This is like a work in progress for me. So, yeah, the. I'm just. I'm just chalking it up to a decision at this point. And again, the coping thing is, like, when I. When I. When I engage in meaningful. When I engage in meaningful work or I engage in like, community or I engage in, like, relationships, all that shit goes away, and I'm just like, there, you know? So that's how I try to cope. That's what I'm trying to do. But you can't. Well, you don't want. You can't just wallow for. For that long because you'll just. It's. Yeah, it's not. It's. It's just kind of a brand of bullshit. There's no point. And you see people, all this. I know. Look, we're all. We all. We all live in the same world. And, like, you see people like, you know, all this, dude, Like. Like, we all live in the same world. You see people every day who, like, manage to, like, be. Yes, the guidebook people. Yes. The people who you believe have a guide book of some kind, who just, like, live their life. And they're like, on Mondays I go to the gym, and on Thursday I do, like, you know. I don't know, whatever. Just people who, like. Who don't live like that, like, if they can. I do genuine believe. If they can do it, you can do it. Like, you know, you're just. Just, Just. Just be here, man. I don't know. I. That's all. I. That's. That's the best I got on that for now.

[Tim]

Thank you.

[Lyle]

Yeah, just, just, just. Just be here. Just being grossed in something. I mean, I. I just. I just got tired. I'm not like. I don't know if it's like, okay, it's a. It's a work in progress, but I just got time. Just tired of, like, being in, like, a depressive, nihilistic thing, you know? I just want to be, like, a normal person of the world and, like, engage. And I don't want to, like. I don't want to, like, wear nihilism or existentialism, like, even the positive nihilism shit. It's like. Like, I don't want to wear this shit as a badge. I don't want to have it be part of my identity. I just don't want anything to do with it.

[Tim]

Yeah, I feel very similarly. That's the most relatable thing, you know.

[Lyle]

Let's see. You wrote.

[Tim]

Oh,

[Lyle]

you wrote, I want to tell you a story of gluttony. Okay, let's hear the story of gluttony.

[Tim]

What story? We go, I don't know. Is that it? Is that all it said?

[Lyle]

No, you said, I have three stories for you based on your mood. A story of heroism. A story of gluttony. And a story of rage, and I'm choosing a story of gluttony.

[Tim]

I don't even know what I could have been talking about at that time. I'm sorry to let you down. I don't have a story of gluttony right now.

[Lyle]

Well, you know what? You should go out there today and make one. Go eat a box of Pop Tarts or something.

[Tim]

I will. I will, Lyle. Just. Just for you.

[Lyle]

Good.

[Tim]

Good.

[Lyle]

I'm glad.

[Tim]

You know what? It's not for you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's for me.

[Lyle]

Yes. Yes. Yes, Tim. Yes, Tim. Yes. Wait, what the. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you tell me your name was Tim, or did I give you that name?

[Tim]

No, you gave me that name.

[Lyle]

Okay, hold on. Fucking two years ago, you texted me and you said, my name is Tim. I'm 24 years old.

[Rob]

Yep.

[Tim]

It is totally a fake name. It is not my name. However, people use that for me as a fake name.

[Lyle]

Wait, hold on. So wait, you're telling me that the fake name that I gave you is the same as the fake name that you use?

[Tim]

Not in the first call, but when you took. When you took my first call, my fake name was Murray.

[Lyle]

No, I'm not forgetting. I'm talking about this. There is no first. Like this. This call. This call.

[Rob]

This call?

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rob]

This call.

[Tim]

The whole time it was Tim. All right. The fake name that you gave me.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Tim]

And then I think I texted you a fake name.

[Lyle]

You texted me that your name was. You texted me your fake name was Tim. But then I. I'm just. Okay. All I'm saying is it's interesting.

[Tim]

It was a massive coincidence.

[Lyle]

It was a massive coincidence. That's all. That's what I'm saying.

[Tim]

Which is crazy.

[Lyle]

It's a little crazy. Tim.

[Tim]

Yes, Lyle?

[Lyle]

Join the living, dude. We're gonna join the living. Are you there, Tim?

[Tim]

I am here.

[Lyle]

We're gonna join the living, Tim. I'm tired. You're tired? We're gonna join the living. That's my. That's been my fucking motto for myself. It's just like. Join the. Join. Join the. Join the living. That's. Listen, here's the thing. They don't have a guide, right? They don't. They don't have a guide, Tim. They're just the living. When you look. When you look at those people who. Who have a guy who you think have a guide, recognize that they don't have a guide. They're just the living. And join them. Just join the living.

[Tim]

I'm gonna try my best. Gek.

[Lyle]

I'm trying my fucking best too, dude. We're enjoying the living, dude. That's what I want to do. I want to join the living. I want to stop being a fucking crazy person.

[Tim]

I really do. I really want to stop being a crazy person because it's. It's hard being a crazy person.

[Lyle]

It's hard. It is hard being a crazy person,

[Tim]

too. But.

[Lyle]

But also. Dude, I'm sorry. But. Yeah, I know, but, like. But, Tim, like, here's the thing. Sorry, this is another rant. But, like, okay, here's the thing about. Here's the thing about being antisocial is that, like, I do. Look, whatever. I'm not a real therapist, but I'm just like. This is just. This is just. All the shit I. Fudgeing. Say on here is just me pontificating on my own experience of life. But, like, you also have to realize that a change in your environment, Like, a change in your environment will prompt, like, changes in your behavior. And so, like, if you want to, like, discover new versions of yourself, perhaps even a version of yourself that feels more aligned with the living and more aligned with the guidebook, you have to put yourself in situations where you're talking to new people and you're in new environments, because you can't unlock new versions of yourself alone in a room. I mean, this is a documented experience. Like, the. Like, you can have a conversation with someone, and then the way that that person's talking to you, like, unlocks versions of yourself and, like, feelings about yourself. And like. Like, you. Like, you can be talking to someone and realize, like, oh, I'm actually funny. I've just been hanging out with people who, like, don't bring that out of me. Or you can go somewhere or be a part of something that, like, just brings new versions of yourself out of you. And if you sit at home, because

[Tim]

some of this stuff, this is where you're going to bring me on a rant. Because some of this stuff that makes me feel alive. Honestly, all the stuff that makes me feel like I'm the part of the living is locked behind such a financial wall. And to change my environment feels like such a lock behind such a financial wall. And I know this is where you don't want to get Dave Ramsey, and I don't want to make you Dave Ramsey, but it's just something. Not all of it is existential dread. Some of it is financial dread. And I know that's. That's. That's Just me right now.

[Lyle]

No, sure. That stuff is. That stuff. That stuff is realist. You are, you are being real as fuck right now. Like what? Like going to like, oh, just the thing of like, oh, if I want to go to a place or talk to a person, I gotta like put, put, you know, seven dollar a gallon gas in my car and go to the thing and pay the due and like just all that.

[Tim]

Yeah, kind of. But more like, oh, if I want to be, you know, doing stuff like that, that costs money or, you know, living. I love traveling. Like, like you said before. All right. And I said I wanted to be in the jet program. I'd been to Japan before and it was awesome. So I wanted to teach there. Right. And even though that's not great pay, right. Everything else is, you know, less expensive. It was a way to experience it and have the experience I wanted for, you know, a less rate, a cheap rate. And I'm not like saying I'm a cheap bastard, but it's hard.

[Lyle]

No, I know I don't make the

[Tim]

most and I just got laid off.

[Lyle]

I know what you mean. I get you, I understand, I understand that there is a financial barrier to putting yourself out there to do new shit. Yeah, I get it. But, but I don't know, man. Like, where do you live?

[Tim]

I don't want to dox myself. I kind of already have for, you know, because my mom listens to this podcast, but.

[Lyle]

Or do you live in like a city?

[Tim]

No, I live in like a suburb. Like a moderately middle class, maybe upper middle suburb.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Tim]

And I, I know that sounds like I'm a, like a whiny baby, right? Like, oh, this guy lives with his parents.

[Lyle]

No, I don't think you're being a whiny bit. I, I mean, I, I, the viewers.

[Tim]

The viewers, Lyle. I'm thinking about the viewers, but sure, man, I interrupted you.

[Lyle]

No, I mean, I, I what, I. Listen, I could get all Dave Ramsey on you for sure and thing, but like, I don't know, man. At the end of the day, I do feel like you got, like

[Tim]

I lost my job even though I got laid off. I, I love, I love it. I love it.

[Lyle]

Lyle, what's your job?

[Tim]

I teach. It's amazing. The, the dopamine I get from when, when somebody gets something right or they understand something or they're able to, to, you know, do something. They have a skill, they have a.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Tim]

You know, I mean, they create something. Yeah, it's amazing.

[Lyle]

Yeah, no, you're not entirely, you're not like you have. Like, you're not like a hopeless lost cause of a being on the planet. You have. You have meaningful work and you have the desire to engage yourself in meaningful relationships and community, but you're. You're not there yet. Is that an accurate read?

[Tim]

Yeah, the yet just feels far away. And then. Bone dopamine addiction. You see everybody else.

[Lyle]

Yeah, sure. No, it's. It's. You know, you can form a parasocial relationship with a cat online.

[Tim]

Or a lizard.

[Lyle]

Or a lizard.

[Tim]

Or a gecko.

[Lyle]

Tim?

[Tim]

Yes.

[Lyle]

How do you feel like this phone call went?

[Tim]

I think it's everything I've ever wanted, Geck. And I'm so happy you have had it.

[Lyle]

I hope it's not everything you've ever wanted. I hope you want for more.

[Tim]

Well, especially after the first time where my call dropped. I thought it. And then it was. I thought it was happening again.

[Lyle]

Tim, is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?

[Tim]

I don't know what I want to say to the people. The computer. The people at the computer should get off the computer and learn a skill, become valuable.

[Lyle]

I agree. I think you should. I think it's good to do stuff. Get off the computer, go outside, don't kill yourself. And I agree.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Look at a dog or some shit. Thank you, Tim. Good luck, man. Good luck, man. Try to figure some shit out. I'm so. I try to figure some shit out, man. Okay, good. Okay, good. Okay, good. Join the living, Tim.

[Tim]

I will. I will. Lyle. I hope you come to my area. I am on the text chain.

[Rob]

All right.

[Lyle]

Okay, cool. Where's your. What state do you live in? You can't give me the state.

[Tim]

I don't know if I should. All right. I'm an agent of the state. I teach.

[Lyle]

Oh, yeah. You are an agent of the state. All right. That's all good. All right. I'll see you around the universe, Tim.

[Tim]

All right. Thank you, Lyle. Have a great. Have a great more calls today.

[Lyle]

Thank you, Tim. That was Tim. We're joining the living folks. Yeah, I know. If I. I feel like I've, like, bummed everyone out on this pot. Like, I don't. I don't want to do, like, existential. I don't really care about it. That's not true. I care about it. It's like, I'm like. I just. I just want to be done. And it's okay to engage in conversations about it every now and then, but it just feels like a thing that I don't I don't Just don't want to be like a recurring. It's such a fucking. It's like a. It's such a crazy thing because I do. I do think that, like, exploring that stuff and makes for, like, better art and like, good conversations and like, better understanding of the world. But, like, it. There's got to be, like, a way to approach it that feels less crazy, I suppose. I don't know. We could talk, like. I'd rather. I'd rather like, talk about the best flavor of dog treats

[Tim]

for,

[Lyle]

you know, 70% of my life. I know. It's where I mean this. Hold on. I'm trying to gather my dumbass thoughts. But, like, sometimes it feels like some people, like, like existentialism and all this crap. Like, you know, Maybe it's like 10% of the thoughts and the other 90% are just like, oh, what are we having for dinner? You know? And like, I'd like to be there if right now my life is like 90% existentialism and 10%. What are we having for dinner? I'd like to get to, like. I'd like to have a good. You know, it's like with like, in all of life, you have

[Sponsor/Announcer]

your.

[Lyle]

Your pie chart, I suppose. And I'd like to spend about, uh. I'd like to spend like 80% of my life, like, existing and being in it. And then like 20% can be reserved for thinking about it. I'd like to spend way more time existing in life than thinking about it, is how I'd put it. Say you can still think about it, but it's more time living it. Therapy get goes on the line, making

[Sponsor/Announcer]

your phone calls every night.

Therapy get goes doing it right, teaching

[Lyle]

you how to live your life. But he's not really an expert.

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[Lyle]

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[Lyle]

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