“I MIGHT DOWNSIZE TO A VAN”

Summary

Therapy Gecko: Episode Summary – “I MIGHT DOWNSIZE TO A VAN”

Release Date: July 2, 2025
Host: Therapy Gecko by iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the episode titled “I MIGHT DOWNSIZE TO A VAN,” Therapy Gecko delves into personal transformations and the quest for balance between career, family, and personal well-being. The host engages with callers sharing their life challenges, aspirations, and the steps they're considering to achieve a more fulfilling life.

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Main Conversation with Gary [02:04 – 24:03]

Gary’s Story: Gary, a 32-year-old electrical worker and father of a two-and-a-half-year-old, shares his contemplation of downsizing to a van to prioritize family time over a high-stress job.

• Parenting Challenges:
  “It's tough, it's fun having the kid. It's just everything comes with it.” [03:09]
  Gary discusses the complexities of raising a child, balancing work, and co-parenting responsibilities.

• Decision to Downsize:
  “I'm thinking about not selling my house, but renting it out, maybe living in a van, and then just on the weekends when I have the kid, staying with the mother.” [08:43]
  He explores the idea of simplifying his lifestyle to reduce stress and increase time with his child.

• Therapy Insights:
  Gary reflects on his sessions with a therapist, expressing uncertainty about maximizing the benefits.
  “I think I'm expecting something from a therapist that I'm never gonna get.” [11:26]
  The host encourages him to identify specific goals for therapy, aiding in personal growth.

• Community and Social Engagement:
  Gary highlights the importance of community, sharing his positive experiences with local Magic the Gathering tournaments over traditional game stores.
  “The community at this bar is great. I love it. That's much better than any game store I've been to.” [15:49]
  This shift from competitive environments to more relaxed social settings has improved his mental well-being.

• Overcoming Addiction:
  Gary discusses his journey to cut back on drinking, motivated by personal health scares and the desire to be present for his family.
  “I think a long time ago... I need to stop doing this. I'm too old.” [18:46]
  Despite challenges, he's making strides towards a healthier lifestyle.

• Future Aspirations:
  Gary expresses his plans to continue reducing stress by possibly living out of a van and taking on less demanding work.
  “I'm gonna downsize to a van, get a lower paying job that's less stressful, and then just chill and spend more time with your kid.” [09:52]
  He acknowledges the difficulty in making such drastic changes but remains committed to his goals.

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Secondary Callers: Alex and Will [28:36 – 66:25]

Alex’s Story: Alex, a previous caller, reconnects to discuss his own life struggles and his experience with the podcast. He shares an unusual anecdote about responding to a Reddit post for money by creating fart videos, reflecting on his past actions with a sense of humor and regret.

• Embarrassing Experiences:
  “Would I lick a homeless man's foot for £50? I think my threshold is a lot lower than, like, a lot of people.” [34:04]
  Alex opens up about his unconventional attempts to cope with financial stress during lockdown.

• Therapeutic Dialogue:
  The conversation explores themes of shame, self-acceptance, and the impact of embarrassing actions on personal growth.
  “I don't think you should experience shame for it.” [41:00]

Will’s Story: Will, a 26-year-old aspiring wedding photographer, discusses his transition from a CBD manufacturing job to building his own photography business. He touches on the challenges of entrepreneurship, maintaining work-life balance, and dealing with existential stress.

• Career Transition:
  “I'm building a photography business right now and I quit a full time job... trying to build this up and I'm in the space of like a little bit of a purgatory with it.” [50:14]
  Will highlights the uncertainties and pressures of starting a new business venture.

• Existential Concerns:
  Will shares his feelings of overwhelm and the search for meaning in a chaotic world.
  “It's like, trying to feel like, okay, like in the grand scheme of things, does this make a, an impact or a difference or like, whatever it may be?” [61:28]
  The host and Will discuss coping mechanisms and the importance of finding grounding points through relationships and passions.

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Closing Thoughts

The episode emphasizes the importance of self-awareness, community, and making conscious life choices to enhance personal happiness and fulfillment. Through Gary, Alex, and Will’s stories, listeners gain insights into navigating life's complexities, the value of supporting relationships, and the courage to pursue meaningful changes.

Notable Quotes:

• Gary: “I'm thinking about not selling my house, but renting it out, maybe living in a van...” [08:43]
• Alex: “Would I lick a homeless man's foot for £50? I think my threshold is a lot lower than, like, a lot of people.” [34:04]
• Will: “I'm building a photography business right now and I quit a full time job...” [50:14]
• Host: “If you always focus on the future, you never in the present.” [72:19]

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Conclusion

“I MIGHT DOWNSIZE TO A VAN” offers a heartfelt exploration of individuals striving to find balance amidst life's demands. By sharing personal narratives, Therapy Gecko fosters a sense of connection and encourages listeners to reflect on their own paths towards a more intentional and joyous existence.

Transcript

[Host]

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[Gary]

Hey, how's it going?

[Host]

Hey, what's up man? What's your name?

[Gary]

Oh, Gary.

[Host]

Gary. Gary, Gary, Gary. I think. I think I'm gonna just call you. I think I feel like I should just call everyone caller because I forget everyone's names and it's supposed to be anonymous anyway, you know some skin. I'll just call you caller from now on. Maybe. Unless I change my mind at some point. Whenever I feel like it's caller. What's up? What you want to talk about today?

[Gary]

Oh, nothing. Just been trying to call you for fucking years now.

[Host]

Oh, cool, cool. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Host]

How long? How long have you been. Oh, thank you, man, I appreciate that. How long have you been listening to the show for.

[Gary]

How long you been around? Since you've been on public. Public Reddit or whatever it was?

[Host]

Yeah, five years.

[Gary]

Crazy shit, five years.

[Host]

Fuck the years start coming.

[Gary]

That whole ass kid.

[Host]

You have a whole ass kid?

[Gary]

Yeah, since I started listening to you. Yeah.

[Host]

How's that going?

[Gary]

It's going. It's tough, it's fun having the kid. It's just everything comes with it. Like, he's great.

[Host]

What inspired you to want to have a kid?

[Gary]

You know, not fear. Pulling out, I guess.

[Host]

Oh, it was an accident.

[Gary]

Yeah.

[Host]

Oh, okay. How'd you feel when you found out that you were gonna have a kid? Was it like, were you considering like, oh, shit, let's maybe not do this? Or was it like, all right, well, let's just do it?

[Gary]

No, I was scared of shit, but it wasn't. I was prepared to do whatever she decided.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah, dude. I mean, I guess looking now, how old is your kid now?

[Gary]

He's about two and six months or so.

[Host]

Okay, so comparing how you feel now to how you felt when you were scared of shit, how do you compare those two feelings? Was the fear warranted or are you like, alright, I'm over that fear.

[Gary]

It was definitely warranted. Like, you know, your life changes. You fucking can't do a lot of things that you used to be able to do. But I guess I'm resigned at this point, but also happy because I love them.

[Host]

What sorts of things could you not, can you not do anymore that you, that you thought you wanted to do or that you do want to do?

[Gary]

I guess just do whatever I wanted pretty much. Like, I'm not, you know, I don't have to carry a baby with me.

[Host]

Well, I guess if we, if we were gonna get specific, I mean, is there anything specifically that you wanted to do that you can't do now?

[Gary]

Play video games whenever I want.

[Host]

Yeah, that's true.

[Gary]

He requires a lot of attention.

[Host]

Yeah, it's true. Why do you, can you. Are you able to play video games while he's in the room?

[Gary]

Yeah, except for he likes. He always wants my attention, you know, and I feel guilty if I don't give it to him.

[Host]

Yeah, that's good. That's good. I guess when you're how old? Two And a half. How old do kids start playing video games at? I'm trying to remember when I got my Game Boy advanced. You in this? Are you in Nintendo?

[Gary]

Oh, yeah, I would say four or five.

[Host]

Four or five. Okay. All right. So I guess in a couple years you guys can start playing games together.

[Gary]

Super Smash Brothers Mario Kart, yo. Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Yeah, dude. I remember when I was got. Let's see, the GameCube came out in 2001, so I was like three or four or five. And I remember the GameCube came out and I was a little too young to be able to like understand the controls of Super Mario Sunshine, so I just sat and I watched my dad play. And that was really nice.

[Gary]

Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I want to be there playing with him because my dad left when I was 2, so I didn't get to really experience that. So it must. Yeah. Was it. Was it nice for you with a real good bonding moment?

[Host]

It was, man. It was. That's something. I. I've been thinking a lot lately about kids and whatnot. I mean, I still feel like I got a few. A solid amount more years before I gotta figure that shit out. But like.

[Gary]

Yeah, people have kids when they like 45. I mean, you got time.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, how old are you?

[Gary]

32.

[Host]

Cool, man. Cool.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Host]

So did you ever rekindle with your dad?

[Gary]

He lives way far away. I kind of just avoid him. Be honest. That might be more on me than him.

[Host]

Do you feel like. Do you feel like what happened with your dad is kind of like informs your relationship with your own kid?

[Gary]

Yeah, because I didn't get to see my kid for two weeks or I guess a week and a half this week and last week. So I'm. I'm. I felt like I missed a lot, you know, and that kind of. That kind of weighs on me.

[Host]

What. Why'd you miss the week?

[Gary]

Just, you know, personal and work and the. The baby mama.

[Host]

Are you and the baby mama cool?

[Gary]

I thought we were, but you know how it goes.

[Host]

Okay. So do. Are you guys don't live together?

[Gary]

No, no, we haven't lived together for about seven months, but it's all right. I just. I just fear he's not going to have. Not gonna be able to spend enough time with them.

[Host]

Mmm. What have you been. What have you been up to in those seven months?

[Gary]

Working and figuring out what I'm gonna do because it's. We were together for like eight years, and now I have this like, kind of freedom and I don't Know what the fuck to do with myself.

[Host]

Oh, interesting. Tell me. Can I. Do you want to talk about that?

[Gary]

Yeah, we can talk about it.

[Host]

What?

[Gary]

I got. I got plants.

[Host]

You got what?

[Gary]

I got plans.

[Host]

Yeah, hit me with the plans.

[Gary]

I'm thinking about not selling my house, but renting it out, maybe living in a van, and then just on the weekends when I have the kid, staying with the mother, you know, and just kind of living my life.

[Host]

Would you drive the van around or would you. Or like, would you go on, like drive it across the country or just live out of the van with a van parked?

[Gary]

Live out of the van and take like a lower paying job, less stressful, more time with kid.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gary]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

[Host]

That's cool. What, what do you do now?

[Gary]

Electrical work.

[Host]

Is that a lot of stress?

[Gary]

Yeah, it can be. It has its days and the traveling sucks, but not too bad.

[Host]

So you're gonna downsize to a van, get a lower paying job that's less stressful, and then just chill and spend more time with your kid?

[Gary]

Yeah. And just family in general, I guess.

[Host]

I like that idea. I like that idea. I think that's cool.

[Gary]

I like it too. But pulling the trigger is hard.

[Host]

Why?

[Gary]

It's just. I don't know, I guess just because for so long I just did whatever I needed to or whatever everybody else wanted to do. And now I got freedom, you know, except for the kid. But I. He's not locking me down on anything, you know, I want to do stuff with him.

[Host]

Is this something that you've been wanting to do for a while? Move into a van?

[Gary]

Yeah, I think so. But I knew I could never do it because I had, you know, the girl and the kid. And I was like, well, that. That dream's a crapshoot. So I'll just, you know, live my life, go to work and be happy and die. But now I got freedom.

[Host]

Are you excited about having freedom?

[Caller]

I don't know.

[Gary]

I'm gonna talk to my therapist here shortly and figure that out, I guess.

[Host]

Why? Have you talked to your therapist about this before?

[Gary]

Kind of. But there's a. There's always new developments in my life that I gotta talk to her. I don't know if she helps or not. Be honest.

[Host]

Why not?

[Gary]

Guess because you don't really see the benefits of it, but it's just nice to talk to somebody.

[Host]

Maybe I'm. Can I ask you, like in the. In looking for help or looking for benefits, if you were to picture or imagine what that help or Benefit might look like. What. What would that be?

[Gary]

Yeah, I think that's my problem, because that's what she keeps asking me. It's like, what do you want? And I'm like, I have no clue.

[Host]

Well, you want to live in a van. Well, I mean, from talking to you for two seconds, you sound like you want to spend more time with your family and you want to be less stressed.

[Gary]

Yeah.

[Host]

Is that accurate?

[Gary]

Yeah. Yeah, I've been. I've been a lot less stressed and pretty happy from something you said. So you. You got somebody into Pokemon a long time ago, and they went broke. Right. So I did the same thing with Magic the Gathering. So I went pretty broke, but I was already broke, so. But it more broke. And so that was. That was because of the. The Pokemon thing. You need to find something you like to do, go do it. So I took that advice. And then after I got over being broke, you had another call where you were like, oh, you can't kill yourself. You got to go do this. Yeah, so I've been playing every Monday, so I can't kill myself because I gotta go play magic on Monday.

[Host]

Great. I'm extreme. I'm extremely happy to hear that.

[Caller]

You.

[Host]

You're not gonna kill yourself because you have magic tournaments on Mondays. That's. That's good. Do you still play in them?

[Gary]

Yeah, they're more casual, though, because it's a casual format where you can just go to a bar.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gary]

Kind of. Nice.

[Host]

Yeah. You need some shit. Well, yeah, bro. You need to have something. I think. I think one of the things I've learned is you need to have a place where you can go where it's the. It's that. It's. Cheers, dude. It's where everybody knows your name, you know?

[Gary]

Yeah, you gotta have.

[Host]

You gotta have that place where you go and, you know everyone and. Or. And you leave and you say goodbye to a bunch of people. You gotta have that place. And if you don't have that place, you gotta. It takes. It takes a little bit of time and energy to develop it, but you gotta have it. It's. It's like a key to.

[Gary]

Oh, yeah. Anxiety inducing. But I probably only did it because of your podcast.

[Host]

Oh, I'm fucking happy to hear that. I'm happy to hear that. So do you have a. Do you have a nice community of folks in the magic universe that you hang out with?

[Gary]

Oh, yeah. It's much better than, like, the game store because it's at a bar. So it's kind of like more socially Adjusted people.

[Host]

Yeah, sure, sure. Ah, that's wonderful. I'm super happy to hear that the podcast inspired you to do that. Yeah. I mean, especially as, like, we're getting. I think one thing I. One reason I'm optimistic about society is I do think that as we get. I think there is a pendulum shift that, like, as we get more and more sucked into our digital universe, there's gonna be more and more demand for, like, in person shit. People are gonna be more and more like, oh, wait, I actually want to be out and about and in the universe and not on fucking Discord and Reddit all the time.

[Gary]

Yeah. The more I socialize, the more I figure out I'm very terminally online because I'll say some shit that's like a quote from a meme or something, and I just get a blank stare and I'm like, fuck, I'm. I'm an idiot.

[Host]

You're not an idiot. You're not. I don't think you're an idiot. But I think that, yeah, you can become more terminally online. But it's great because there are places where weird, nerdy people hang out and socialize, you know, and you don't have to feel like a crazy person.

[Gary]

Yeah. The community at this bar is great. I love it. That's much better than any game store I've been to.

[Host]

Why are the game stores weird?

[Gary]

They're a lot more competitive. They. It's not like, oh, I'm glad you're here, or like, I really like playing with you. It's more like, win, win this game and go on to the next one and shake hands, but not talk to the person at all.

[Host]

Yeah, Yeah. I plan. I play in Melee tournaments and sometimes actually shout out. There's this bar in Manhattan called os. They run Melee every Wednesday. And I go like, once a month, something like that. And 80% of the time when I, like, have a match with someone there, we're just sitting down and chatting and it's cool and whatever. But then, like, 20% of the. 20% of the time could tell they're, like, fucking into it. And they were like. And like. Like out, like, I'll win. And they, like, are all fucking sad, and I'm like, oh, man, come on. It's just having fun playing the game.

[Gary]

Yeah. I had one guy get up on me and get mad, and I'm like, shit.

[Caller]

That.

[Gary]

It just feels bad.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gary]

And that. That's how I feel every time at the game store. But at the bar, it's just like, it's always just fun. Nobody cares if they lose.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gary]

Yeah. They also have Smash tournaments at that bar too.

[Host]

That's cool. Yeah, I feel like I feel that way with. I feel that way with. I mean, those have been my, like two big hobbies for my life is stand up and the Smash Bros. And I feel like, I feel like I stand up to like, a lot of people in stand up are like, also very competitive, but it's like, bro, I don't know a lot of this shit. It's like at the end of the day we're all just. The end of the day we're all just trying to get out of the house, you know?

[Gary]

Yeah. They seem more like critical then, like, because they're trying to help you out, but they just come off as an asshole. Maybe for stand up or what?

[Host]

Nah, man. Mainly just out. Just me, I think. Mainly just people being like, ah, this person sucks, or this is lame or whatever. Fuck. It's like we're just trying to get out of the house, man. But anyway, what's your name? Gary.

[Gary]

Yeah, Gary. Yeah, Gary, Gary.

[Host]

Gary, Gary. All right, so you're fucking. You got your magic tournament that you're not killing yourself for. That's good.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Host]

You're going to try to take a lower paying job to have less stress, Live out of a van.

[Gary]

Yeah. Be with kid more. Yeah. Stop drinking too.

[Host]

You stop drinking?

[Gary]

It just. Yeah, it just sucks because all the stuff's at the bars. So, you know, alcohol is always there.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, what inspired you to quit drinking?

[Gary]

I think a long time ago, I, like when I was 27, I was drinking and playing Rocket League every night and I was getting plastered and one, one birthday, I drink almost a whole fifth by myself playing Rocket League and I felt like it almost killed me. And I was like, I need to stop doing this. I'm too old.

[Host]

Was that your rock bottom?

[Gary]

No, no, my rock bottom was right out of high school.

[Host]

Ah.

[Gary]

Eating McChickens and drinking four locos.

[Host]

Oh my God.

[Gary]

Living in the car.

[Host]

Yeah, that sounds fun for a day.

[Gary]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wasn't great.

[Host]

How long you been off alcohol for?

[Gary]

Oh, I'm not off. I just, I just cut back a lot and I'm trying to not drink, but going to the bar all the time, especially with the family drinking too.

[Host]

The family?

[Gary]

Yeah, like my whole. Anytime we go for a birthday or anything like that, it's, oh, what bar we going to?

[Host]

Well, do you have a lot of family where you live?

[Gary]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Nice. Now, are you close to them?

[Gary]

Yeah, I'm pretty close. Yeah, Definitely with the mother.

[Host]

That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Do you have a lot of friends?

[Gary]

No. Most of them are online. And then, you know, I got the people who all know my name and I know their name and we may sometimes go to people's houses and play magic, but I don't know if they're friends yet. I don't. I wouldn't say they would call me a friend.

[Host]

So. I'm curious about this and yeah, you know, you should talk to a real therapist about this. But I'm just curious. As I'm talking to you is like, you're, you gotta, you got, you, you got all this well rounded stuff, you know, you got a plan, you're cutting down on drinking, you're, you know, you're on an upward trajectory, making friends, hang out with family. What. When you say you're. What was the thing you were gonna talk to your therapist about? Like, trying to find, like trying to figure out what the fuck to do.

[Gary]

Well, she always asks me what I. What do I want out of the therapy sessions. And I, I don't know what the.

[Will]

Fuck to tell her.

[Host]

But you said that you, you said before that you were like, I'm gonna. I gotta talk to my therapist about like, what the am I gonna do?

[Gary]

Yeah, but then that's not her job to tell me what I'm gonna do. So it's like I think I'm expecting something from a therapist that I'm never gonna get.

[Host]

Yeah, that's possible. That's. I mean, in terms of figuring out what you're going to do because you're already doing a bunch of stuff.

[Gary]

Yeah. Yeah. The. The last two weeks when I didn't get to see my kid though, I was a little depressed and I didn't really do anything though, and I was.

[Caller]

It felt bad.

[Gary]

So I kind of forced myself to go to Magic and I feel a lot better now.

[Host]

Where is your. Do you have a nice enough relationship with the baby mama that you guys can like, you know, fucking co parent the kid?

[Gary]

I thought we did.

[Host]

Yeah. It sucks.

[Gary]

Yeah, it does. But shit happens.

[Host]

Yeah. Life is crazy.

[Gary]

Life is crazy. Yeah.

[Host]

Gary, it's been nice talking to you. Is there, is there. I know you said you've been trying to call in for a while.

[Gary]

Yeah.

[Host]

Is there any thing, I guess, while we're still on the phone, is there anything else that you wanted to say or talk about before we go?

[Gary]

I don't mean Asheville.

[Host]

Asheville.

[Gary]

And do a show yeah, I've heard.

[Host]

Cool things about Asheville. I've heard cool things about Asheville.

[Gary]

Yeah, don't go downtown. Go on Haywood Road.

[Host]

Okay. I, you know, I'm not touring this year. I might next year. I got to think of something to tour. I got to come up with some shit. I'm laser focused on trying to make YouTube videos this year and spend less time touring so I can work on my videos and, you know, do the podcast and shit. But if I TORE Again in 2026, I'll put Nash. I'll put Asheville on there. I've heard a lot of good things about Asheville.

[Gary]

Yeah, we're small, but we got, we got people who would want to see you. We got tons of breweries and bars and everything.

[Host]

That sounds like a fun ass time.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Host]

Well, is there anything else you want to say at all before. I guess that was the thing. But anything else before we actually go.

[Gary]

This now there's nothing knocking around in my head.

[Host]

Cool. Good luck, Gary. Take care, man.

[Gary]

Yeah, you too. Get.

[Host]

I like that guy. That goes. Cool. Yeah, I'm happy. I'm stoked that the podcast inspired him to go out and do. I'm a big fan of going out and do doing. I'm a big fan of avoiding thoughts I think I don't know. Everyone's so. Everyone's wired very differently, but I find that like, the more engaged I am, I find like I'm like a shark. Like, if I'm not engaged in life, if I'm not like out and about and doing something or talking to something, someone or, you know, whatever, like, that's why, that's why I love cities so much. I love fucking, you know, being out and engaged in life. I love being out. Like, you know, I find if I'm not doing that, I'm just like. I'm spiraling fucking hard, dude. Spiraling hard. Yes. I loved, you know, touring and I mean, that got, you know, it can sometimes get a little overwhelming, but overall I feel much more relaxed and calm when I'm like, present in it life, you know, Like, I'll spend a whole morning inside and I'm like fucking depressed. And then I go outside and I see like people walking around and the sun is out and I'm like, oh, well, duh, you know, you gotta. You gotta do shit. Yeah, do shit. And it doesn't always. It doesn't always have to cost a lot of money to do shit. Like every, every city has free shit that you can go and do. You can't even show. You can even like fucking go out to some bar that has some fucking trivia or magic or whatever and buy like a Diet Coke. You know, it doesn't have to be crazy expensive.

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[Host]

In school programs, and sometimes that requires attending school recitals. So many recitals. That's my son. Isn't he terrific? Yeah, a real prodigy.

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[Caller]

Hello, is this the therapy geeker?

[Host]

Yes, who is this?

[Caller]

Hello, my name is Alex.

[Host]

What's up, Alex? How you doing, man?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, I'm not too bad. I just. Before we start this conversation, I just, I wanted to say that I have, I have called you before and I've been listening to you a little bit this evening and you. And you've expressed the distaste for people who call you multiple times. So I don't know, I don't know whether you would want to talk to me again or if you wanted to have a different conversation than perhaps we had last night. This up.

[Host]

Yeah, you know, it is true that I prefer to talk to new people because, you know, I know that there's a lot of people who want to talk on the show that haven't gotten the chance to talk before. What? I mean, what. When, how recently did we talk?

[Caller]

Well, so I actually, the first time that I spoke to you, I met you in person. Show in London. I came and the last time I called you, I told you about the time that I met you at the show and you said that perhaps that you had been moved to tears or something. But. And it was potentially something that I had.

[Host]

Yeah, you were the guy. Yeah, yeah, you were the guy who. You were the guy who read the letter on stage.

[Caller]

No, no, no, no, no, no. That wasn't me. That was someone else. But I came up to you after a show and I said to you that the show had helped me for the better and it helped my life. And I spoke to you about, you know, something that you had talked about called the tax of life, which, like, you know, how you accept things and move on in your life when they're difficult and stuff like that. And I came up to you after the show and told you about that. And then I called you. Last time I called you was about just before the Vice documentary came out. It was literally, I think, like the day before the Vice documentary came out. And I spoke to you then, and I called you, and we spoke for about 45 minutes, and then by the end, and I think the whole. The whole conversation was me trying to reassure you that everybody, you're doing a great job and the podcast is a good thing. And I felt like in that conversation, we spoke for about 45 minutes about you, and I was trying to. I was trying to therapy you, and. But so I thought this time if I called up, I could maybe share something about myself. And that's only if you want to.

[Host]

You know what? You know what? You know what? You know what? Hold on. You know what, Alex? First of all, I. I kind of. I actually think I do remember this now. I think I do. Okay, so uk. Okay, you didn't come this past November. You came to my show in the summer of 2023.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's. That's right. So it was in London, in Camden. I came to see you, and I.

[Host]

Did get to Camden.

[Caller]

And the reason is, to be honest with you, is because I live in a city called Birmingham. And you. You haven't been to Birmingham yet at all, but it's the best city in the uk. It's the second largest city. And you need to come. You need to come to my city and come and hang out here. That's why. But I love the show, and I'd love to go.

[Host]

Thanks, man. Well, yeah, of course. Well, first of all, yes, we can. We can have this conversation. Yeah, I remember. I do, actually. I do remember that fucking. I do remember that phone call. Yeah, I do remember that phone call. How are you doing, man?

[Caller]

I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I think my life is, like, extremely, extremely stressful right now, but I feel quite. I feel quite happy. I feel quite good and fulfilled. And I think. I know just moments ago that you said that you don't. You don't want to talk about existential threats, and so we won't talk about that. And I'll talk about happy things. And, yeah, I can tell you about my life if you want to know about me. And I think last time when I spoke to you and you asked me some questions, I think that I tried to not talk. I try not to not tell you too many details about my life to, like, be identifiable, but I actually, I think. I don't mind. I think if you want to talk about anything, then I'm happy to talk about literally anything with you as well. So if you. If you Want to ask me something then? You want to talk about?

[Host]

Sure, man. Well, listen, it sounds like you called in to want to talk about something specific, so I'm down to talk about it.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. I did want to talk about something specific. Okay. So I have something that I talk about. It's like a funny thing sometimes. It's like a bit of an icebreaker, and I think my partner. My partner hates it because she. It's really embarrassing. Like, it's a really embarrassing thing to talk about and, like, tell people, but I just wanted to get your opinion on, like, this thing that I tell people about, and I want to know what you. What you think about it as well. That's okay.

[Host]

Sure.

[Caller]

Oh, my God. Okay. My girlfriend, she's just. She's just looking at me with her head, so. Hands on her head. I think she doesn't want me to say this, but I'm going to tell you about it. Okay, so you.

[Will]

Have you.

[Caller]

Have you ever been poor and, like, desperate for money? Like, you need to do something like, really, like, like drastic to earn some money? Have you ever been in that situation?

[Host]

I'm really lucky that I grew up, you know, not having to, like, ever be, like, particularly stressed about money. So I'm too privileged to answer that question.

[Caller]

Okay. Have you ever. Have you ever thought to yourself, what's the weirdest or, like, what's the worst thing that you'd be willing to do for money? Have you ever had that thought cross your mind?

[Host]

Yeah, I've had that thought cross my mind for sure.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. Well, so I also had this thought come across my mind many times, and I think, you know, would you ever. Like, sometimes I find myself thinking, like, would I lick a homeless man's foot for £50? And I mean, that's like 75, I.

[Will]

Think something like that.

[Caller]

And I think that, you know, I probably wouldn't lick a homeless man's for like 50 or 75 or whatever, but I think my threshold is a lot lower than, like, a lot of people. So, like, what I'm willing to do to embarrass myself for money, like, if that makes sense. So anyway, it was. It was about 2020, you know, in the middle of lockdown and code. I was a student at university and I. I was, you know, very poor. Like, my partner lost her job because of. She was working in retail and we didn't have a lot of money. We were eating, like, on the, like, reduced labels in, like, the. The store. Like, everything reading was like, about to expire and stuff like that was very bleak. Like, we were totally running out of cash. And I was. I used to live. Actually, I won't say the city, but I used to live in a different city to where I live now. And someone in that city posted on the. On the city subreddit that they were looking for a skinny young white man to fart for them for money. And so I replied to the Reddit comments saying that I was game for a bit of fighting because I thought, you know, I'm willing to fart my way out of my situation, you know, if I. If I had to. And this isn't. This is not a bit. I'm being. I'm being so serious that this. That this happens. So I, like, I made myself, like, an alternative Snapchat for this. This purpose. Like, I was gonna. I was serious about this. Then the guy added me, and. And so I asked him, like, what he wanted, specifically because I wanted the money. I was serious about it. You know, I wanted to see, like, what he wanted. So he told me. He told me what he wanted, and he basically, he said that he. He wanted me to fart and, like, comment on it as well, if I could. So what I did was I filmed myself. I filmed myself fighting, and I did like a. Oh, that really stinks. Like that. Something really, like, I don't know, like, I commented and said how bad it smelled. And then I actually did that twice. I filmed two, and then I sent him the first one, and I said, this one's free, but if you want more, you're gonna have to pay. I was serious. And then he. He stole my fart video. He never paid me. Then that was it. And then I just have. Now I just have two videos of myself flying on my phone.

[Host]

Wait, but did he. But he didn't really steal it. He didn't really steal it. You gave it. You said it. You said, the first one's free.

[Caller]

Well, because. Because I didn't really know. I've never done something like this before. So I was very naive. I was, like, 20 years old. I didn't really know. I didn't really know what I was doing. So I thought, well, I just want to show him that I've got the goods. And then if this is going to be like a reoccurring arrangement, then. Then that was going to be happening.

[Host]

From a business perspective, I think you did the right thing. Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay, well, this is the thing as well. And in the conversations leading up to this, he had spoken about doing this in person. Because he, obviously he was local to the, or so he claims he was local to the city that I was living in. So in my mind I was thinking like, this could be the start of a beautiful business relationship and I could be, you know, flying on this man for vast amounts of money and, and you know, maybe once, one day I won't have to put on anyone. That's what I was thinking. But it didn't work out that way. And, you know, I'm glad that it didn't because I think life is probably better now than if I had built like some kind of fighting empire. But that, that was something that I was very serious about. And I went to the point of like, you know, degrading myself and fighting on my phone. Not, not, not to say that, you know, I think, I don't know, maybe I don't really think that sex work, maybe it's like, I don't, I'm not, I don't want to call myself a sex worker and I don't think less of people for being sex work either. Obviously, you know, it was kind of crazy that I went through all that effort to file my phone, that the ethical dilemma just to get nothing, nothing from it, you know, I mean.

[Host]

Is that something you would, you would do today? Like, like how much money would somebody have to offer you for a fart video nowadays?

[Caller]

But that's, that's a good question. What have you ever considered, like, I don't want to flip the question. Yeah, I think I need to address this. I think if someone wanted me to send the video of me, fine. I think I would do it for £50. I think that's pretty fair of like a 15 second video of me fighting and coming on the smell.

[Host]

Yeah, I think, I mean, I've sent videos like that in my like Facebook group chat of friends. I think I sent a video of me farting in my, on the toilet in my Facebook group chat like a week ago. And I did that for free.

[Caller]

Yeah, but see, that's okay. That's pretty normal and I think. But maybe. Can I ask you another question? Because I think that's normal amongst friends. Right? And this is another thing, you know, I, I kind of preface this thing as well by saying that like my girlfriend, she really disapproves of this whole story and this whole scenario. But I, she also doesn't like it when I send my friends like pictures of my nutsack and stuff like that. Do you ever do that?

[Host]

Not as much anymore. But like I've said I sent I, I. What I'll do is, like, I have a. It, like, okay, so we have a main group chat. There's, like, nine people, and then we have a little breakout group chat, but there's a little bit less people. And in that one, I've sent a video of me, like, screaming with my, like, ass out. But then I usually. I'll delete it afterwards.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Host]

Yeah. Or, like, we'll send, like, pictures of each other. Like, well, like, I'll send, like, a. Like, my friend will send, like, pictures of, like, the. Our toilets and stuff in the smaller group chat. That stuff. It wouldn't play in the larger group chat, but it sometimes plays in the smaller one. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think when I was younger, I would send more like, oh, like a picture of my nuts, like in the Facebook group chat, but not. Not so much anymore.

[Caller]

No. Perhaps that's the. The learning curve we were on. But, yeah, definitely now that. Now that maybe now that I'm older, then. So do you think that I should leave the fighting face behind and I should not tell people about it? Is it. Is it wrong I. Or should I experience shame for that or. I don't know. Like, what do you.

[Host]

Should you experience shame for? I don't. I don't think you should experience shame for it, but I don't. What do you mean by leave it behind?

[Caller]

Well, like. Well, my girlfriend, she tells me about, like, I shouldn't. I shouldn't tell people about that. It's, like, embarrassing, but, like, I didn't know.

[Host]

I. I don't think you should. I mean, do you want it. I don't think you should not tell. Well, do you want to tell people about it? Does it. Is it funny to you? Is it, like.

[Caller]

Well, it's funny to me, but it's. You know, I. Obviously, I can't see you right now, so I don't know what your reaction was when I started talking about before.

[Host]

No, I think. I also think it's funny. It's objectively funny. It's very funny, for sure.

[Caller]

Oh, okay. And I think, I mean, probably spoken to a lot of people. I mean, you've probably spoken to people who, like, you fart on cakes and stuff, like. Right. And I think it's the. The fighting just coming on. This. Not. That's not even the worst thing that you've heard, so, so. But I don't know, maybe. Maybe you're, like, maybe you're biased towards the buying. I don't know.

[Host]

Maybe. Yeah, maybe. But, like, I don't know, it's what. Yeah, I think you don't really have anything to be ashamed of to like, feel like you have to hide.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. Okay. Is that, Is there anything else that, that you want to talk about or ask me about and I'll talk about anything with you, Lyle. Anything.

[Host]

You sound like you have a thing and I'm gonna. And I don't. I have. I have no further questions for you, but if you have further things that you want to talk about, you, you can, you can.

[Caller]

Well, there was nothing as such, but, you know, just in general, I guess I would say that I. I feel like I put.

[Gary]

For a living.

[Caller]

I also interview people in a similar way that. Well, not, not in a similar way that you interview people, but I often. Because I'm also. I'm 26 years old, so I think I'm a year younger than you. So I think a lot of the time when I'm listening to you and I'm like listening and watching the show and I watch the life quite often as well. I, I kind of, I can. I think that from the perspective of someone who interviews people from. For a living that I kind of. I sometimes feel like I can think your thoughts when I'm watching the stream and I'm like watching you interview people. I feel like I. The next questions that you ask, I also, I anticipate that you're going to ask them. So sometimes I feel like I'm in your head a little bit. But. So I don't know whether you. But I don't know. I don't know whether you would find it interesting to talk about what, what I do for a living and who I interview and why I interview them or whether that's a conversation you want to go down or not.

[Host]

I mean, I was, I was, I was a little, I was a little curious. Yeah. Who. Who do you, what do you do to interview people?

[Caller]

Well, so. So for the last like five years or so, I've been like a fraud investigator. So I used to be a benefits buster in. For the government in the uk.

So.

So after all of the fine went away and I wasn't poor anymore, the first job that I got after the fine, I became like a, A government. It was, it's called the job center in the uk. Do you know, like welfare and stuff that you have in the U.S. sure, it's like that, but like in the U.K. so what I had to do for a while is like help people find work. And then I did that for like about a year and then I got Transferred to be like a fraud investigator. And then it was like my job to like, investigate people who were like, stealing a lot of government money. And then the whole, the whole, my job part of that whole investigation was to interview them and grill them about it and get them to confess to, like, stealing, you know, thousands and thousands of pounds of people's money. So that was my job for a while. And then now I do, like visa interviews. So, like, it's my job to decide whether someone's like coming to this, to the UK as like a genuine person or not. And they like, mostly I do like student visa interviews and stuff like that. So mostly it's about like interviewing people to work out whether they're like genuinely coming here to study or whether they have like some ulterior motives to come to the country and stuff like that. So, yeah, that's what I do at the moment. But I also, I study like full time as well. So I'm doing like a full time master's degree as well at the moment. So that's my tea. I don't know if you have any questions about my tea, Lyle, or interviewing or anything like that. I don't know.

[Host]

Yeah, I'll ask one question. What, what's the number one, what's the number one flag for you that makes you deny someone's visa?

[Caller]

Oh, oh, that's. Well, I think the thing is, like, if I think they're lying to me, so if so a lot of the questions when I ask people, and I think this is again, it's like, why sometimes I relate to you when I, when I listen to the podcast and stuff, is because I think when I'm questioning people in interviews, when it was fraud as well, like when I was like, not immigration stuff, when it was financial stuff, you, you want to try and ask people about their motivations for like, whatever they do. And because you can't really, if you, when you live your life, you live your life hopefully with, you're doing the things that you are intentionally doing and so you'll have some kind of motivation for stealing money or faking a visa or whatever. So if I'm asking you questions about, like, for example, if you're coming to my country to study a course, if I'm asking you like, what you're most excited to specifically study on that, what that course that you're applying for, then like, I, if you're really genuinely excited about that, you would be able to express that to some extent in like an interview and you would have something that you you've been wanting to learn more about or something like that. So, yeah, it's really. For me, anyway, it's about, like, asking people about. Around their, like, motivation and different. If I think that I'm listening to you and your motivation is really poor, and I don't think that I believe that what you're saying makes any sense, then I will. Then I will fail you and I will not give you a visa to come to the uk. But there are. There are. There are specific things as well. Some people, I. Sometimes I catch people in lies very often, which is like, then. Then it's easy peasy to tell someone's visa for that. So. But, yeah, I don't know. Did I answer your question?

[Host]

That did answer my question. Yeah, that answered my question about your ability to perceive whether or not somebody is lying to you.

[Caller]

Okay. And do you think that you have that ability as well?

[Host]

No, I'm pretty good at. I mean, I don't know. Good at. But I tend to take folks at face value. I tend to not think about or press upon whether or not somebody is lying to me because it usually is irrelevant for me whether or not somebody's lying both on this show and in my real life.

[Caller]

And in your real life. So you never really question whether someone's telling you the truth or not.

[Host]

Really? No. I don't have really much of an incentive to in most cases.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. That's interesting.

[Host]

Unless. I mean, unless. Unless someone. Unless if somebody tells me something that's like, blatantly unbelievable. Like, if someone's like, oh, I. Someone's like, you know, I have a. Like, I have a pet unicorn or some shit like that, that I'm inclined to believe that they're lying. But if. If they're like, oh, I'm coming to the UK to visit my grandmother, it's like, I'm not gonna press whether or not they're lying about that.

[Caller]

Oh, okay. Okay. I see. Well, I think that's quite good. I think I tried to do the same in my personal life, you know, take people at face value as well. But. Yeah, I don't know. Do you think that. That what I said was unfair about the visa thing, not taking people at face value?

[Host]

I don't think it was. I don't. I don't think it was inherently unfair. I mean, I don't know. I don't. I don't. I don't have a real. I don't. I. This. The interviews I do on this show are far less real than the interviews that you do for visas? You know, I don't really. I guess that you have more of an incentive to try to determine whether or not somebody's lying than I do. Because if somebody's lying, it's like I never know. And also, it's relatively harmless. You know, I feel like it's different. I feel like it's different for each of us. Hey, Alex.

[Caller]

Hey, what's up?

[Host]

Is there anything else you want to say to the people, the computer, before we go?

[Caller]

No. I love you. I love everyone. And it was real. And this is going to be the last time I think we talk live. I think. I think I won't call anymore.

[Gary]

Oh, no.

[Host]

That makes me kind of sad now, the way you said that. That makes me sad.

[Caller]

Well, but, you know, at the start of this conversation, we had the whole bit about whether we were. Whether it was okay or not, but. And I feel like I exhausted this. This conversation. I don't know if I was to call you again whether. Whether we would milk anything out, because I did. I did my whole thing there.

[Host]

Yeah, well, I don't know. Maybe if I. If I come back to the. If I come back to the uk, maybe I'll see you.

[Caller]

Okay. And when was the when? Just as a time frame. When. When did the Vice documentary come out? Do you remember?

[Host]

Yeah, it was January of 2024.

[Caller]

So. Yeah, so that was like a year and a half ago. Okay, well, I might call you in a year and a half's time and something more interesting to say.

[Host]

I give you formal permission to call me again in a year and a half.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay, that sounds good. All right, Keep it real low. I'm gonna go. Bye, bye. Peace and love.

[Host]

Bye, Alex. Take care. Hello?

[Caller]

Hello.

[Will]

Can you hear me?

[Host]

Yeah, I can. What's your name, man?

[Will]

My name is Will.

[Host]

What's up, Will? How you doing?

[Will]

You know, I'm hanging in there.

[Caller]

Dude.

[Will]

It's been a day. It's been a life. It's been a year, but we're still standing.

[Host]

I like that. I like that. What. What do you want to talk about today, man?

[Will]

Yeah, man, I guess.

[Caller]

So.

[Will]

I'm like in a phase where I'm building a photography business right now and I quit a full time job that I was doing that was making like CBD and hemp gummies for like a year and a half. And now I'm just trying to build this up and I'm in the space of like a little bit of a purgatory with it, you know, trying to get business, trying to balance Out a social life, trying to do all that stuff and it gets overwhelming, you know?

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Tell me more if you. If you want to.

[Will]

Yeah, for sure. So I do like the photography business I'm doing. I'm a wedding photographer. I was like, worked as one for, since like 2017, so eight years. Worked for a company for a while doing like a lot of contract work, and then left.

[Caller]

Working weddings for other.

[Will]

People and started my own business doing it. So it's like this weird balance of like actually trying to get people to hire me because I've done like 250 plus weddings. But this whole thing of like starting a business and having to be your own, like advertising and like client outreach and like all this other stuff, it's not something they really tell you in college that you're gonna have to do, especially in this whole land of social media and everything. So, yeah, I don't know, I'm a little bit nervous because I've been trying to call you for so long and I've seen you live like three times, I think, and I'm just actually extremely surprised I actually got through here. This is like the most wild thing for me.

[Host]

So where did you, where did you see the live shows?

[Will]

The first one I saw was at Lincoln Lodge in Chicago.

[Host]

Cool.

[Will]

I think that was 2022. You actually interviewed a friend of mine and he kept talking about existential threat and you were like, I can't help you with that, we should talk about something else. But all he could talk about was existence, existential dread. And it was a very funny moment. And then I saw you twice in Milwaukee, once at the back room, which is like the smaller one. You had a whole David Gruber chant.

[Caller]

That went on and then one at.

[Will]

Turner hall last year, so. All been amazing, man. I appreciate you coming in.

[Host]

Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, I've been thinking, I've been reminiscing about those shows recently. I'd like to go out again. I just don't. I don't know when I'm gonna do it or what. But tell me, tell me more about the photography land.

[Will]

Yeah, yeah, so I mean, I've been doing photography since I was 15. Like I bought my first camera from a friend then and then it kind of just built up from there. Like did a bunch of senior photos and stuff when I was in high school. I shot my first wedding when I was 17 actually. And then kind of went off to school, was like, okay, I'm not going to get a job in photography. It's like way Too astronomical. And so I switched my major to graphic design and then I graduated with a major in graphic design. And then I've gotten like fired from all of my graphic design jobs and all of the photography jobs and gigs like that are the ones that actually stuck around. So it's just the way I learned to kind of like see people and, and like I think working a lot of events and like concerts or corporate events or weddings or whatever, it may be like music festivals too. It like teaches you like a sense of empathy and like, I think it, it shows you like a better way of seeing people outside of this like self consciousness that I think a lot of us feel on like social media and everything like that. Like very rewarding to have someone who's like, I'm awkward in photos and then you take like a nice picture of and they look at it and they're like, I like that. And you're like, yeah, you look great. You know, I think we're all living this wildly like extremely and too self conscious of a world, you know, based around all of that. So trying to find a way to like break through that noise to people, you know.

[Host]

Tell me, tell me more about how it's given you more empathy.

[Will]

I think like, I think I've always been like an empathetic person, but I think just working in this space and like being around so many different kinds of people, whether, you know, whatever the event may be, it just allows at least me to like kind of get in and like be a little bit more of a fly on the wall. And I think it like, I don't know, it's like a built in icebreaker and so it cuts through a lot of small talk, which is like kind of what drew me to it. And I think people end up being a little bit more authentic to themselves and therefore like I have a better view on other people like regardless of whatever their views are or anything like that. Yeah, I don't know, it's a little bit more abstract in some ways. I think it's just like a built thing that it's continued to throw in throughout my years doing it.

[Host]

Why would you ever see yourself doing anything else?

[Will]

I've thought about that a lot actually. I think there's like another life where I would have gone into like psychology or you know, something like that because I feel like I, I can read people well enough in some regards. But there's also, it's, it's just not something that like I want to go back to school for or anything, you know. So I did my time with that. But yeah, I mean, outside of it, I think just like, anything people oriented would be something where, like, a lot of that lies. I don't know the hard question.

[Host]

Yeah, I also. I also enjoy things that are people oriented, for sure.

[Will]

Like you were talking about on the stream earlier. You were like, I like being in a city because it keeps my brain busy and, like, you know, me kind of involved in the. I feel the same way. Like, I live in Milwaukee, but, like, spending time in Chicago or New York or, like, anywhere else where there's just, like a ton of people out all the time. It's just like, there's an energy to.

[Host]

It, you know, it's true. It's very energizing. It makes you feel young. It makes you feel good. Yeah, I love. I love living in a city. I don't think I could ever live in, like, a suburb or live in a. In a far off place.

[Will]

No, I agree.

[Caller]

I think that's the other thing.

[Will]

It's like, why with, like, photography and, like, working events, why I feel, like, really comfortable in that space? Because it is just, like, so many people and so many different things happening. And, like, I'm not somebody that's, like, standing out. I'm there to just, like, witness it and be a part of it. You know, there's not anything where, like, a focus is on me or anything like that, but you can still be a part of something with a bunch of other people. Mm. Mm. So I think that's, like, you know, at the core of it.

[Host]

Well, let's see. What is there. Do you have a dream photography gig of some kind?

[Will]

I don't know, man. I feel like, you know, running, like, doing events and stuff like, that is definitely really fun and, like, where a lot of the passion lies, like, whether it's like, it'd probably be, like, concerts and music festivals overall, especially festivals, and, like, just capturing festival life and just, like, people hanging out with each other and enjoying themselves and, you know, being absolute weirdos. Like, you know, you got a chance to go and, like, interview people at Bonnaroo, and that's. Those were some crazy conversations. And I think it's like the same thing on a photography side of that too, where it's just, like, people outside of their everyday environment just running around and doing them and, like, not trying to be necessarily, you know, a corporate entity or, you know, anything that they're not. So just capturing people in environments that, like, they feel comfortable in, I think is what I would really like to do. Whether it's portraiture, event space or anything like that, just people, you know.

[Host]

So what do you. What are you the most stressed out about now?

[Will]

I mean, it's just like, living in today's society. I think there is, you know, like, a fair amount of existential dread that comes along with being alive right now. Not to get into any of that, you know, because that's just life. But, yeah, I think it's just like, money's always a worry, and then just like, just being like, oh, like, you know, did I make the right decision? Or, like, am I doing the right thing? And then I always think about it and I'm just like, I think I did because, like, nothing else really makes me feel the way that, you know, photography does.

[Host]

Right.

[Will]

Like, I can do a lot of other stuff, but if I'm not doing it, like, during the pandemic, when all the gigs kind of shut down and I wasn't, like, working photo stuff as much, there was, like, such a heavy part of me that was just gone, like, you know, missing. And so, like, being able to come out of that and still work and, like, find those gigs again has been obviously very fulfilling. But, yeah, I think the worry is just, like, you know, what if it. What if it fails, right? Like, just to be, like, super vulnerable with it. I think it's just, you know, you'll never know that you made the right decision until the right things start happening, I think. And I think that sometimes it takes a long time to get to that point of, like, figuring out what the right things are, if that makes sense.

[Host]

Yeah, that does make sense. Yeah. I think that there is definitely a lot of joy to be had in simply trying to. Oh, yeah, you know, Definitely a lot of joy to be had and simply trying. What if it doesn't work out? I don't know. I don't fucking know, man. What do you. What have you been feeling existential about?

[Will]

I think it's like. I don't know if it's like. Like, I've always had that existential stuff of just, like, trying to figure out, you know, like, get a grasp on the world. I think, you know, ever since you get, like, cursed with self awareness at a young age, and it's like. I don't know if it's necessarily as much like, existential as it is just, like, overwhelm of, like, trying to do so much, and then there's also so much happening in the world, you know, without diving into any political stuff or anything like that. It's just like, the world's pretty chaotic right now. And then if you're trying to like, get your shit together or, you know, start something new or like build on something, I feel like those things that you're trying to do can, like, be made to feel very small in the grand scheme of things, you know?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Will]

Maybe that's where the existentialism, like, lies, where it's like, not necessarily where I feel like I'm not doing something that matters to me, but. Yeah, just trying to feel like, okay, like in the grand scheme of things, does this make a, an impact or a difference or like, whatever it may be? Right.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's trying to be like beyond your mortal capacity.

[Will]

How do you mean?

[Host]

Like, you're, you're, you're trying to, you're like, oh, does anything I do matter in the grand scheme of things? It's like, well, no, but do you, you. You can't. No. No mortal can ever do anything that matters in the grand scheme of things. Not even if you're, I mean, you can get even, you can get pretty close. I mean, you can write like, like, I don't know, like, look at Mark Zuckerberg, right? He completely, utterly changed the day to day life of all human beings on earth.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Host]

In the grand scheme of like, how you can zoom out far enough that that doesn't even fucking matter, you know, so it's like, yeah, sure, you can, you can take whatever vantage point upon your life and your work as you want. You're eventually gonna find one where it doesn't matter. And if you're gonna zoom in far enough to the just the one person, you are the universe, and it matters to you. So then it matters, you know, it's like, it's whatever vantage point you want to pick.

[Will]

True. No, that's a good, that's a good thing. I think it's like, yeah, it's very easy to get lost in the existentialism or like that whole topic of meaning when in reality it's like, you know, I can get a email from someone that I did their wedding or like, whatever it may be, or like a band hits me up after doing their photos and they're like, oh, like, these are great, you know, and it's just like.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Will]

And it's just something that like. Yeah. Finding the touch points that are grounding points in a overtly digital world I think is a perspective that can be hard to lock into.

[Host]

I mean, just one person being, you know, fucking with you is, is, is good, is all you need. If just one person tells you that your work was impactful to them, that's. That's enough. I think.

[Will]

I would, I would agree with that.

[Caller]

I think that's also.

[Will]

It's like, you know, it's. I don't know if it's also, like this is also something that you are. You know, I feel like it is something that you have expressed that you've dealt with in terms of like that existential realm. But I don't know if it's just like the over use of social media and like playing that comparison game and like just getting lost in the scroll, you know, and then not having to focus to like put on the right things, like still getting all this stuff done right, but like, yeah, like not necessarily searching for the meaning. It's just like looking for the stuff that is actually there that does mean something that you overlook when you're like. Yeah, way too high above it.

[Caller]

Mm. Mm.

[Will]

So I think that's a good point. I think. I think you've. You've. You've helped me figure out the. I don't know, it's like it's a scattered time to be alive and my brain is very scattered about all of it. But yeah, it all comes down to the grounding points, right? Like friends, family, doing what you like to do, connecting with people, not letting silly things get in the way, being nice, you know, So. I don't know, man.

[Host]

What's your name again, sir?

[Will]

It's Will.

[Host]

Will. How many times have I asked you that the course of our conversation?

[Will]

I think only one. I guess that would be the second time.

[Host]

Will. I will. Will, I will. I've hit my quota today for existentialism. So any.

[Will]

You're all good.

[Host]

Any. Any furtherance of this conversation I will be useless in. So I'll. Yeah, I'll end it before we get to that point. Is there anything else you want to.

[Will]

Appreciate you taking the time?

[Host]

Yeah, of course, man. Is there anything else you want to say to the people, the computer before we go?

[Will]

Yeah, you should hire me to shoot your wedding.

[Host]

By the time I get married, I'll probably have forgotten about this.

[Will]

Well, that's all good.

[Host]

Oh, wait, sorry, you talking about me specifically? Are you talking about whoever's listening?

[Will]

Oh, oh, I was talking to the people of the computer. But I mean, obviously if you want to hire me to like.

[Host]

Sorry, I forgot. I forgot that that was. I forgot that that was the question that I asked you.

[Will]

Yeah, no, but if you.

[Caller]

If you want to, you can.

[Will]

You can give me a shout at Candidhus H U E S dot photo on on Instagram I'm always available and and looking to work with cool people. So if you're looking to work with a fun photographer who makes your day easy, hit me up.

[Host]

Beautiful. Take care Will. Thank you.

[Will]

Yeah, you as well. Shout out Lyle. Bye.

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[Will]

Tonight will be clear with temperatures ranging.

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Hey Meta, what can I make for.

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[Host]

Homes.com has collaboration tools to help home shoppers search, share and discuss home shopping with family, friends and their agent directly through the site. Though it was fun to get that email from your husband about that three bedroom in the hills, to which you replied via text that you would never live in the hills and you'd like to find a three bedroom closer to the beach. To which he replied, why are you so uncompromising? A fun way to spend an afternoon, but we think it's just a tad bit easier our way. Homes.com.

[Caller]

Ding dong. We've done your homework. What's up, man?

[Host]

Hey, how's it going, dude? What's your name?

[Caller]

Ken. Like from the Eminem album? I'm gonna go with that.

[Host]

I'm not familiar with that, but that sounds cool. What's up, Ken? How's life?

[Caller]

Dude, I got fired on Friday the 13th this month, and I've just been chilling. It's been amazing. I hated that job, so it was like the best thing that ever happened. And now I'm just trying to figure out what I want to do after that, I don't know, kind of scheme on the Internet and try to figure out what to do next. It sucks, but it's also been amazing. I'm still happy.

[Host]

All right, well, let's start with why it sucks. Why does it suck?

[Caller]

Dude? It's like, man, it's like just the endless possibilities of what you could do or what you could do next, you know? And like, man, I have no clue what I want to do next. Which is both, like, so scary but also so amazing because, like, I can go anywhere from here. But yeah, no, like, as an impulsive decision, I decided to just say it. Go to Japan. So I got like a three week solo trip coming up in about a month and hopefully, hopefully this month I could try to figure out what I want to do with like a job and all that, but then just again, chill out in Japan, have a great time, then go from there. I don't know.

[Host]

Yeah, I mean, Japan's fucking wonderful, man. What, what are you applying for?

[Caller]

So I got a mechanical engineering bachelor's degree. But, dude, I Have no clue if I even want to do anything about that. Yeah, no, I haven't even been applying because I, I'm trying to figure out what exactly I want to do. So I've been talking to random people what their jobs are, like, try to see if that's something I want to do. Maybe do like data science or actuary or I don't fucking know. Hey, dude, anything, Anything that's not stressful because this last job paid really well, but it was so stressful, wasn't even worth it. I would rather make like half the money that I made back then and just chill the fuck out, you know? So trying to find something like that. It doesn't have to be engineering, man. It could be like, like that, that one person that was selling ice cream out of an ice cream truck. When I heard that shit, I was like, oh, I'd be down to do that. I would love that. Yeah, as long as it pays for what I want to do, I guess.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I don't know.

[Host]

You kind of remind me of the last caller who was talking about how you. Yeah, you know, the guy in the van who was talking about how he wants to just like take a lower paying job for a little more. For less stress, you know, I respect. I mean, fuck, I mean, you could do, you could just like fucking, if you wanted to, just be a barista and hang out.

[Caller]

True, true though. Yeah.

Okay. Okay.

The only downside is like, at some point I do want to settle down and like have family and all that and have enough money to buy a house. So I always got that in the back of my head, like, oh, shit, I got to work on my career. So then I have enough money to do all this shit in the future. But also like, I'm about to be 27, I'm still decently young. I could still, you know, I, you know, I could still around a little bit, do some, do some random side quests and then figure that shit out later. I don't know, it almost feels like a form of procrastination, you know, it's just, dude, there's just. Again, there's so many choices, so many an avenues I can go down and it's just trying to make sure I pick the right one, you know?

[Host]

Yeah, it's. It's a difficult balance. It's a difficult balance. I mean, I'd be lying to you if I. This is the part I don't have a good advice because I just got lucky.

[Caller]

Right, right, right.

[Host]

Yeah, but it's a difficult balance.

[Caller]

I mean, I mean, I felt like. I felt like I got lucky with the last job. Even though I hated it, it paid me so much money that I was able to save up and I have, like, a good cushion. So, like, in a sense, I was. I was pretty lucky that they found me on LinkedIn. They're like, hey, do you want a job? I'm like, you're gonna pay me double what I make right now? I mean, hell yeah. I didn't ask any questions, so it's like it. So, like, yeah, in a sense, I was kind of lucky too, but I don't know. I don't know.

[Host]

It's part of. Go ahead.

[Caller]

No, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

[Host]

I was just gonna ask what part of town you live in.

[Caller]

I'm in the suburbs of Chicago, and I really want to live in the city because I've been just staying with my parents and saving up money, which has been great. I don't regret it, but I kind of want to go out there and. And being. Be out there in the world and, and just experience not living with my parents, you know, I'm ready for that.

[Host]

Yeah, totally.

[Caller]

Having the income to do that with is my first goal and making sure I don't hate my job.

[Host]

Can you live with, like. Can you live with like, six other dudes and pay like, like $500 rent?

[Caller]

Dude. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So before I got fired, I was gonna move in with my one buddy, and the rent would have been like 800 bucks because Chicago isn't that bad now. I'm not against living with like six other people. I just worry that someone's not going to like each other and some shit's going to happen. But if everyone's chill, I would fucking love that. I am all for, like, minimizing my cost, so then I can make very little money in a low stress job and still, like, enjoy life and, and go out and do shit, you know?

[Host]

That seems to be the theme of. That seems to be the theme of today's episode. That seems to be the theme of today's episode. Yeah, I mean, I respect that. I think that there's something to be said about that, especially.

[Caller]

Bro.

[Host]

It's a hard balancing act because you're aware of the fact that I think it's a hard bouncing. I think it's a balancing act that our generation in particular is, like, trying to figure out, right? Because the economy is all, like, fucking crazy and we're all like. I think I feel like our generation is the most woke to the fact that time is finite, you know?

[Gary]

Mm.

[Host]

Maybe that's. Maybe that's wrong. Maybe that. Maybe they figured that shit out back in the, you know, 1000s or whatever. But I feel like. I feel like our generation is pretty woke to the fact that time is finite. And, you know, it used to be like, all right, you're gonna work for 40 years, and then at the very end you retire and you. But it's like, well, now that's just guaranteed, you know? No, it's like, how do I, how do I, how do I balance living my life for today, but also saving money so that, you know, if I do want to, like, live the quote, unquote, American dreams, fucking have a house and afford, you know, a family and all that shit? Yeah, it's a tough balancing act, dude. It's a tough balancing act.

[Caller]

Yeah. I think it also depends on who you talk to, because I was telling my dad, my parents were never good with money, but I was telling my dad, like, I'm saving up for retirement. He's look, he looks at me crazy like, you're too young to save up for retirement. And I was like, dude, no, like, the earlier you start, the better. And I tried to explain, like, compound interest and all that stuff, and he just, he just kind of waved his hand. But, yeah, no, I, I feel like it definitely depends person to person. Maybe, Maybe earlier generations were just like, it. I' ma live day by day and see what happens. I don't know. I. Now, Now I'm just kind of talking out of just, like, personal experiences. But, yeah, maybe we are. This generation is a lot more like, oh, my future. But not, not just, like, making a bunch of money and then retiring early, but also, like, making sure you're also enjoying what's going on now. Yeah. Anyways, well, I, I, I, I'm just most excited for my Japan trip.

That.

That's been my way of not thinking about it too much.

[Host]

Are you going by yourself?

[Caller]

Yeah, dude. Okay, so I, I, I, I'm definitely doing Mount Fuji. There's, like, a random Japanese rock band I want to go see, so I'm. I gotta get tickets for that, too. And then I've just, I've just been asking everybody, like, where the hell should I go? I have no, like, concrete plans. Because I would hate to just like, be in this city for two days, and then I have to go over to this city for three days. Kind of just want to just land there and see what the hell happens, see what I like most.

[Host]

Yeah, great idea.

[Gary]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But that's gonna be fucking dope.

[Host]

Which cities are you going to? Or do you.

[Ad Voice]

Are you.

[Host]

Are you just. Are you just free balling it?

[Caller]

So I'm flying into Tokyo at like 1am I figured that out after I bought the ticket and I'm like, oh shit. I'm probably at the sleep in an Internet cafe the first day, but that's fine. And then Mount Fuji. Okay, that you could. You could now kind of tell how little planning I've done. But I think Mount Fuji is pretty close to Tokyo.

[Gary]

So I could.

[Caller]

I'm pretty sure I could take a train from there. And then this concert is like a three minute train ride from Tokyo. So those are probably the first two things I'm gonna do. Get. Get that off the list and then probably check out Osaka next and I don't know, probably jump around from Osaka and Tokyo. Unless there's some other cities I find, you know that I really want to check out.

[Host]

I mean Tokyo rocks, man. You guy you could spend. I. You could spend three weeks in Tokyo. I spent two months there. That might be this year. It was fucking great.

[Caller]

Oh shit. Wait, what'd you do out there?

[Host]

I was hanging out. I thought about moving there for a little bit and then I decided not to. But I yeah, had a great time. Shout I gotta get. Oh if you want to. If you want a recommendation, I get. I gotta give a shout out to my homies at the Tokyo Comedy Bar. There's a great okay in the middle of Shibuya. But yeah, I mean if you want advice for like. I mean there's all the like you could there. You should just. You could just walk the entire fucking city. Like there's Shibuya, Shinjuku, Ueno. Actually, I don't. Yeah, yeah, whatever. There's. There's Akihabara. There's just all these like great neighborhoods that you could just spend infinite amount of time just walking around and hanging out in.

[Caller]

Hell yeah. I think that. I think that's what I got to do.

[Host]

And so you do that and then figure out the future. Yeah, there's a. Again, it's a balancing act of, of of the present and the future. But if you always focus on the future, you never in the present. If you're always in the present, you, yeah, go. You go broke and it's a whole thing.

[Caller]

And like when, whenever in my life am I going to be able to just take three random weeks and just like say fuck it and go fly somewhere? It's like, yeah, sure, you. Yeah, like, like sure you can find a job that gives you like three or four weeks of pto. That's fucking tough to do. But even then, are you going to want to spend all. All your. Your whole years of PTO to go to one place? Like, I'm. I was like, not.

Fuck it.

It just makes the most sense to do right now.

[Host]

And you. But you have savings though, right? You're not going into. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

Oh, then no. Thank God. Thank God, dude. When they fired me, they're like, we're gonna give you two months severance. And dude, I was so happy. The. The HR guy got mad that I was so happy.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

I was like, man, you're telling me you're giving me two months of severance? Fuck yeah, I'm happy.

[Gary]

Let's go.

[Host]

Rock and roll, man. Well, yeah, then. Go crazy, man. Have a good time. What's your name again?

[Caller]

Hell yeah. Ken.

[Host]

Ken. Ken, is there anything else you want to say to the people, the computer, before we go?

[Caller]

And like you said, dude, live in the present.

[Gary]

It.

[Caller]

You know, don't. Don't think too much about it and just ball out, I guess.

I don't know.

[Host]

Beautiful. Beautiful. Take care, Ken.

[Caller]

All right.

See you.

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[Host]

Hey, Meta.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway, it's oral Care Month, which means you can earn four times points on all your favorite oral care brands now through July 15. Shop in store or online for items like Colgate Toothpaste, Listerine Mouthwash, Crest Mouthwash or Toothpaste Sensodyne Toothpaste. Hello, toothpaste or gum flossers and earn four times points. Points can be redeemed for future discounts on gas or groceries. Offer ends July 15. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

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