Host (2:17)

Jack, are you calling me for I see you have a weird area code or I guess weird for me, but what are you from Australia?

Jack Shepherd (2:26)

I'm calling from just off the coast of Mykonos in Greece, but yeah, the Australian phone number. Oh.

Host (2:34)

What are you doing in Mykonos?

Jack Shepherd (2:38)

I'm on a virgin voyages Ship. I'm a musician, so I'm like a guest artist on the ship right now. This is crazy. This is the first time I've tried to call, so my telco in Australia is going to. But it's totally worth it.

Host (2:55)

This is crazy for me, too. I've never talked to an Australian man working as the entertainment on a cruise in Mykonos.

Jack Shepherd (3:05)

It's pretty trippy. I'm sort of a year and a bit into the gig and. Yeah, man, whenever I'm doing something or fixing a guitar or just feeling fucking anxious, I put on your stuff and it's. It's the perfect. It's the perfect, you know, put your brain in default mode kind of. Kind of stuff as well as being really interesting. I was just listening to the. The episode with that girl who was stuck on the. Stuck on the river in the houseboat.

Host (3:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing. Nothing to cut. Nothing to calm your anxiety more while you're on a boat than listening to a podcast about a lady who is trapped on her boat.

Jack Shepherd (3:50)

Man, it's a. I mean, it's a. It's a big. It's like a little floating city. It's. And, you know, the. The cabin's pretty cool and got a little balcony here. I'm staring directly into the sun right now. But it's. It's pretty nice. Can't. Can't complain at all. Definitely wouldn't complain.

Host (4:11)

How big is the Virgin Cruise? Like, how many people are on this boat? How big is this boat?

Jack Shepherd (4:17)

Oh, I could. Well, if I wasn't using the app, that. That I would need to use to check. I could tell you exactly who and from where and all that kind of stuff. But there's a couple of thousand. A couple of thousand sailors. Something like 2,400 ish sailors, which is the sort of name of the customers. And then there's I think 1000 to 1300 crew or something like that might be a little less.

Host (4:46)

But wait, there's a. There's a thousand crew. Hold on. 100 to a thousand. That's a large range right there.

Jack Shepherd (4:54)

Oh, sorry, I misspoke. This. Something. Something like. God, I think it's like 800 to 1200, you know, so like 800 to 1200 crew, something like that. Like, don't quote me.

Host (5:11)

800. 800 to 1200 crew members and that. So how many people must be on this boat for there to be that many crew?

Jack Shepherd (5:21)

Yeah, I mean, heaps is like there's at least 2,000 sailors. And yeah, there's there's like 15 levels to the ship, as far as I'm aware. There's sort of accommodation from level 3 to 4 and 3, 4 and 5 for crew and then 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 levels for sailors. Like cabins of varying sizes and all that kind of stuff. I swear I'm not like, I'm not simping for Virgin here. Like they, you know, obviously they pay me to be on board. It's great gig, but yeah, I'm not trying to be the. I'm trying to be the travel agent right now. Yeah.

Host (6:14)

Listen man, I'm just asking how big the boat is. You don't have to give a coupon code or anything.

Jack Shepherd (6:20)

Yeah, yeah. Affiliate marketing. A thousands feet long. That's crazy.

Host (6:29)

That's crazy.

Jack Shepherd (6:30)

It's not the biggest ship in the ocean, but it's of the, of the, I think, the second biggest class.

Host (6:36)

Isn't it crazy that they make that thing? How do they make that thing float?

Jack Shepherd (6:41)

Yeah, it trips me out as well. Like the fact that boats can be made of steel, they're like the heaviest things ever, but they float. And then the fact that airplanes fly as well, like trips me out to the same degree.

Host (6:57)

Well, yeah. What do you think is more trippy, the fact that airplanes can fly or that you can make a floating city?

Jack Shepherd (7:03)

Definitely. Airplanes flying. Definitely. Yeah, that, that. It freaks me out also how frustrated people get in the air. Like, I feel like I'm stealing from some comedian right now. But yeah, I definitely am. Like, I think it was like, you know, why do people complain in airports? Like you should be, have, have your arms up in the air the whole time saying like, you're on a, you know, roller coaster or something.

Host (7:32)

I think, I think that's, that's either, that's either Louis or Dimitri Martin.

Jack Shepherd (7:38)

There you go, your wheelhouse, you know, as the comedy slash therapy gecko. But yeah, it's, it's. I mean, it take planes to be on the ship in the first place. I think that the planes trip me out more. But yeah, like, getting on with, with Virgin was my first, first real like long format corporate gig. And before that I was like a gigging musician in Australia. And before that I was traveling, busking, like street performing. And this, this beats the hell out of that. So I'm, I'm pretty stoked.

Host (8:19)

That's so cool, man. What do you, what do you do? What do you play?

Jack Shepherd (8:24)

Oh, yeah, I use my real name and everything. My name's Jack Shepherd. I won't go as far as putting out my Handle and all that stuff. But I play acoustic and electric guitar and then beatbox looping in vocals.

Host (8:42)

Like what, like what Mark Rebier does?

Jack Shepherd (8:46)

Yeah, yeah, actually very, very similar just with, with instruments and more like, man, he gets, he gets those loops going so fast. I'm. I'm more of a like technician. I spend way too much time like focusing on the, the quality of the sound rather than the performance. That's. I mean, this gig's kind of making me a better performer, but that's neither here nor there. Just like. Yeah, beatbox looping and vocals and vocal stacks and sort of remixing it live. Exactly. Like Mark Revere, Luke Daddy.

Host (9:26)

So how long are you on this ship for?

Jack Shepherd (9:33)

Another two days. So I've got my second show of today in a few hours and then my last show tomorrow and then I'm off. I'm gonna go see my lady in Paris for a day and then I'm back to Australia for three weeks and then I'll be back in. Yeah, yeah. Too much. Too much travel and jet lag.

Host (9:55)

You have a, you have a lady in Paris waiting for her man out at sea.

Jack Shepherd (10:05)

Yeah. I mean that makes me sound more like a sailor who does something. But these, this, this is like a floating.

Host (10:12)

Hold on, hold on. Shut up, Jack. Shut up, Jack. You, Jack, you are literally a sailor who does something. You are sailing and you are doing things. So you actually, you actually totally are a sailor doing something. Right now you're sailing and, and, and making. Making loops. What is the show? Are you like in a band or is just you.

Jack Shepherd (10:36)

There are bands on board, so there's like a few different formats, but I'm solo, so they've got these spots where it's like instead of having a stage show, you know, which you know, they do have stage shows on board, you know, full on, like moving stages and aerial and all sorts of crazy shit. But instead of having like a walk by act, which is sort of like a street performance term, you know, where people would walk past a musician and they're just playing tunes or having a stage show, which is, you know, stage show. You have, you know, buskers are kind of like halfway between like. We're very used to setting up, doing a show and then getting out of there quickly. Be it because the next busker wants to get on the pitch or because there's a cop around or whatever. So it's kind of like this perfect thing to. To drop in at points around the ship, you know, so we've, we've got like sound Text to help us set up and everything they've got. You know, we're. We're plugged into the main system and yeah, there's a. There's a bunch of us that sort of got picked up from. From busking spots around the world and then a few, like, Gigi musicians doing the same kind of thing. And yeah, there's. Yeah, it's. It's just a solo show of like 45 minutes to an hour. And yeah, it's pretty fun. It's really fun. I might even. I might live stream the one I do later on today, because that'll be after your. After your stream finishes, I guess, and then, yeah, people can check it out if they want.

Host (12:18)

Do you. Are you allowed to leave the ship or do you have like an ankle monitor that ties you onto the boat's property?

Jack Shepherd (12:29)

Yeah, yeah, they. They give us daily whippings to improve morale. No, it's. It's pretty good, man. Like the guest artists. So I'm one of the guest artists on board. We don't come on for like a week. Weeks, so I've just done four weeks. But yeah, we can get off in every, every port as long as we're not doing a show. You know, all we have to do is be there on time to. To play our shows. And other than that, we're. We're just like any other, any other sailor on the ship.

Host (13:01)

And do you. Are you getting along well with the other performers or is there any drama?

Jack Shepherd (13:07)

There's always all sorts of drama, but I definitely wouldn't. Wouldn't air it publicly. Even if the overlap in your listener basis is probably quite low, I'd. Just because it's a small group of people, can I.

Host (13:25)

Okay, but without, without getting specific. Without getting specific. Is it. Is it is drama? Is when, when drama stirs up at sea, is it about. Is it like who's who? Or is it like, you know, oh, they're. They're eating up too much scenery. On, on when you guys are performing, like, what is the drama typically about?

Jack Shepherd (13:51)

I haven't seen any real drama about, like, performance kind of stuff because everyone's, I mean, they, they. They hire pretty good news, you know, not to take my own horn, but yeah, I feel. I feel like I'm in. I'm in good company and, and everyone's pretty good. But yeah, the drama's all the normal sort of who's who and so. And so is, you know, said or did this and it's just. Yeah, it's just all that kind of stuff. Or occasionally this drama about, you know, you know, such and such, who we work for or. Or who manages this group of people said what? Oh, yeah, I can't believe. Oh, my God, Britney's such a. Can you believe it? You know, just. Just the same sort of stuff you get in any. In any sort of. In any kind of workplace. But yeah, it's. It's, you know, it's. It's kind of like you make your own time. You know, you could spend your entire.

Host (14:56)

Sorry, go ahead. I want to let you finish.

Jack Shepherd (15:00)

Oh, you can spend your entire contract, you know, just doing your shows, going to your room and eating and getting off the ship. Or you could be social the whole time and, you know, be drunk every night if you can. If your body can stand up to it. And it's kind of a. Choose your own adventure.

Host (15:15)

So that. That leads me to what I'm gonna ask you. That leads me into what I was gonna ask you. Are you living the rockstar lifestyle on this ship? Because I have to. Are you like, you're like ship famous? You are the most prominent. It's like a little city and at that time, you're like one of the most prominent musicians. Just even by not, you know, I'm sure you're great, but even just by being one of the only ones there, you know, you're like.

Jack Shepherd (15:45)

You're definitely not. Definitely not famous off the ship. But yeah, I do, I do forget that there's like a program and there's like touch screens around the ship where people can scroll through and see what's going on. So people will be like, oh, Jack, good to see you. And I'll be like, you know, in my head, like, who the are you? Oh, yeah, I'm. I'm doing this gig. You know, you forget that you're kind of. Kind of representing the company anytime you're outside the cabin. So. But yeah, people are nice, man. I mean, they're all. They're all on holiday. Like, you know, they're all. They're all having a fat time. You know, some people have. This is just like how they live. Some people have done like 60 and 70 cruises before. Some people have done hundreds. Some people have saved up all year to. To, you know, get on a ship with their. The partner or whatever. There's no kids on Virgin, so, you know, it's not like there's a. Yeah, so it's like, I don't know if it's 18 and up or 21 and up because it's technically an American company. But yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty cool, man. Like, gets feel like a rock star. The actual rock stars is like there's a class of sailor who pay for like the, the best cabins. They're, they're called rock stars on Virgin. But yeah man, they treat us pretty good.

Host (17:00)

You know, you said it was a, you said it was a choose your own adventure. So I asked you, you know, what adventure have you chosen? Are you, are you partying every night? Are you kind of keeping to yourself like what's, what's been your vibe on this trip so far?

Jack Shepherd (17:19)

This one I've been kind of keeping to myself like got kind of sick over the last week, so don't want to be like, you know, coughing and spluttering around sailors and that. But I've just tried to get off the ship in places where there's something to do. Like Santorini's one of my favorites because there's this massive hill. Like you can walk down the, down the steps from the top and it takes like 20 minutes of just, you know, going downhill and you would think that that would be, that would be fine. But it's like, it's proper workout, you know. So whoever has the show after we've been in Santorini all day, it's like, you know, just playing real down tempo tunes. Everyone's like a bit heat stroke and heat stricken and, and relaxed in that. But yeah, I've done, I've done the Bahamas on an earlier contract and I'm doing that again in, in August. So on this other ship, Valiant lady, and that's, that's probably my favorite route. Just because there's this one dog at the beach there that like came and made me and my girlfriend like, it's, it's kind of owners for the day.

Host (18:28)

And yeah, you, you, you got, you adopted a dog for the day from the streets sort of.

Jack Shepherd (18:38)

But I found out that, that she's, she's not just my dog because I've spoken to some other sailors who have done the same route and they're like, oh that, that, that blonde kind of staffy, staffage terrier type dog at Radio beach in the Bahamas. And they're like, oh yeah, yeah, she's real friendly. I'm like, oh, I thought it was just me.

Host (18:56)

Oh, what a slutty dog in the Bahamas.

Jack Shepherd (19:01)

Yeah, yeah, slutty bitch. Which is the only phrase, anytime I'd ever use that phrase.

Host (19:09)

Where in Australia are you from?

Jack Shepherd (19:12)

Sydney. When you visited, I was, I wasn't In Sydney. Otherwise I would have been at the show.

Host (19:18)

Yeah, I liked Sydney. Good town. Why? So, okay, so you live in Sydney, you're in Greece, your girlfriend's in Paris. Are you. Are you and your girlfriend like, both traveling wonder people, or do you guys. Do you guys live some form of domestic life somewhere?

Jack Shepherd (19:38)

Yeah, she. She does. She's traveled a bit in her life, but doesn't travel as much, actually. Met her in Australia at the end of 2023, just before I did my first cruise ship contract. And I didn't know I was in for, you know, so it's. You know, there is a. There was an adult vibe on the ships, and especially with my first contract, there were some crazy bands on who could drink a fish under the table. So I didn't. I kind of thought, like, this is the lifestyle. Like, I don't know how I'm gonna survive this in a freshly, very, very close relationship. But to answer your question, she lives in Paris. She's a personal trainer and helps with, like, flexibility and mobility, especially for older folks and, you know, people who could use it, which is everyone just, by the way, like, to. To all the men out there, we're, like, much more likely to get hernias and, like, damage around our hips. And if you just spend like two minutes in the morning, like, stretching that you can avoid it. And it sucks. It sucks when you get that surgery. So, like, stretch your hip flexors anyway.

Host (20:50)

How. How old are you, Jack?

Jack Shepherd (20:53)

I'm 32.

Host (20:55)

Is your body starting. Are you starting to feel like your body decay or. Because you're still young? Yeah, 32, I think.

Jack Shepherd (21:03)

Yeah, I think I'm still young at 32, but I'm definitely feeling it already. Like, my neck, my back, my neck and my back, you know, like, they just hurt all the time. Like, I think that's from being a musician as well, though. And, like, I'm a very. I'm a very nerdy musician. Like, you know, build my guitars and. And spend or have spent a decent amount of time hunched over a laptop. So, you know, just like, bad, bad habits with posture and looking after myself. But there's all the facilities you could ever want for getting yourself well on the ship. You know, you've got. You've got, you know, full gyms and all that, even a boxing ring, like, all sorts of, like a running track around the top. But there's also, you know, a bar open pretty much every hour of the day. So it's a, you know, choose your own adventure in that.

Host (21:58)

In that sense, as well, man, I'm dumb as hell is. I was imagining like a weight rack that had like a, like if I was on the ship and I saw like the weight rack, you know, and I had like, like the 100lb weight on it or whatever, I'd be like, yo, it's crazy. They can put all this on the boat and it still doesn't sink.

Jack Shepherd (22:19)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it still, it still trips me out. Especially when you see the, the front. I've forgotten the name of it, but that, the big round thing, you know, the long deck of the boat, you know, it's the, or the ship, you know, it's the, the, the ballast or the, you know, the, the sort of round, you know, phallic looking thing right at the front, bottom of the ship, like cuts through the water and it's just like just big solid piece of steel and just, it's.

Host (22:48)

Do you ever actually.

Jack Shepherd (22:49)

The rehearsal space? Yeah, on that delay, there's a rehearsal space at the, at the front of the ship which is like where the crew, one of the places the crew can have parties and like where the musicians can rehearse. Um, and it's like right up in the, like, you know, on the other side of the insulation, you can, you can just see the shape of the right of the front of the ship. So it's like depending on what day you're in there for at sea or in port, it can be too rocky to rehearse and you just go like, oh, I'm gonna be sick. I'll go back to my cabin instead of practicing.

Host (23:24)

Do you ever miss the busking lifestyle?

Jack Shepherd (23:29)

Sometimes, because it's like, it's a full on open world. Choose your own adventure. And this is more of a sandbox. Choose your own adventure. But yeah, there are a lot of things about busking I don't miss because it's like, it's one of the most beautiful things I've ever done. But it's also led to some of the most horrible and grotesque, you know, like a really, really high wavelength, you know, massive highs, very, very low lows. So yeah, it's, it's like, and, and also playing for your, playing for your, your money. Like, you know, I need, I need this money or I'm not gonna, you know, have a place to sleep is not, it's not sustainable. And it also leads to some very funky kind of neuroses, both personally and like in groups of people. Like there becomes this kind of I'm gonna be the best busker kind of thing. And I'm struggling for a better analogy than something which is kind of ableist, but it's like that joke I heard in high school of like, you know, being the fastest runner at the Special Olympics, you know, like to totally avoid the ableism of that. But, like, you know, it's kind of like you're just. It's.

Host (24:46)

It's like, yeah, it's like, it's like. It's like. It's like we're. Listen, we're playing on the streets, you know, like, you can be the best.

Jack Shepherd (24:55)

Yeah.

Host (24:55)

And we're still on the streets.

Jack Shepherd (24:56)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I just struggled for a better analogy there.

Host (25:02)

You said, well, so I want to. I'm curious about this because you said, you said that through busking, and I can imagine it has high highs where you're like, oh, I'm like. I'm like the Beatles playing in that park. You know, I'm like, like, there's a, like busking. It's a very romantic activity. You know, I'm sure there's high highs and then. But also you're exposed to just the general public. And when you're exposed to the general public, there's. There's lots of wild cards. I'm curious if you're willing to share. Do you have any specific. If you want to share, do you have any specific. Do you have, like, a specific high moment that you can remember and then also a specific low moment that you can remember that you. You'd be down to share?

Jack Shepherd (25:54)

Yeah, yeah, I've got. I've got a couple. So high moments is like. Man from. I remember one year I was in Switzerland, Montreux Jazz Festival, and just busking by the lake there, and it's like they have a coin in. In Switzerland, a 5 franc coin, right? And it's. I don't know, it's about the size of a Gatorade lid or something. And there's nothing sweeter than the sound of that coin being clicked into your guitar case. Because it's worth like, at the time, it was worth like eight Australian dollars. It's probably worth about five American. I actually don't know the conversion, but, you know, you'd be busting right by the lake there. The lake is just, you know, lukewarm, perfect for swimming. And you could literally leave your stuff with some shop owner in the markets there, you know, play a set, make a bunch of money, jump in the lake, go get some wonderful food, watch another busker. You know, people are from all over the world selling all sorts of really cool stuff at, you know, actual market prices instead of like, you know, hipster market prices. And there's just all this, you know, awesome festival atmosphere. You know, you look across the lake and you're seeing the snow covered Alps in another country, but it's like T shirt weather down on the ground and you know, just like tugboats going past and they like jets flying over and you know, so you get these wonderful, wonderful experiences like that and you can, you can turn, you know, a decently busy street into, you know, 100, 200 people all gathered around watching something who would never otherwise like group together. And that's like the beautiful thing about busking, you know, you'll get just groups of people together kind of being present in a way that you kind of never would see otherwise. And also like that they, they want to be there because, you know, if they want to leave, they'll just leave. Like there's nothing keeping them there. There's no ticket, there's no expectation. I mean, so that's the kind of beautiful part of it. And then the ugly parts are like, I've got, I've got mates or acquaintances who have, you know, I've been assaulted a bunch, you know, on the street, you know, both on, while performing, while not performing in France. Once I had my guitar stolen in Marseille, actually got it back immediately. But yeah, I've had people steal money out of my case in front of me and flip me the bird as they walk away thinking that I'm not going to chase after them. I've had just all sorts of rudeness and horrific shit. I've got, I've got mates and acquaintances who have. One fellow, I'll leave his name out of it but you know, some.

Host (28:55)

Men.

Jack Shepherd (28:55)

Of the streets in Ireland, shall we say, stole his amplifier and it couldn't have been worth more than 100 quid or something. And he later, later on that evening saw them, went to confront them and they took his eye out, you know. Yeah, it's, it's real highs and lows kind of thing. And I think there's a, there's a generation coming along now who, you know, see it on like TikTok or YouTube or whatever and social media and go like, this is the, this is the way forward. And I always want to say like asking the sick, sick way to like trim the fat off your performance and make you into a better performer. But it's also like a word of warning. So I tend to tell people that exactly of just like do it but for the right reasons and remember to get out of it, because there are people in their 50s and 60s who are still trying to be the best busker on the pit. And it's like, to what end? You know?

Host (29:58)

You know, I saw. I had this thought. I don't know why I'm turning it back to me, but my dad is like. My dad is in his, like, fuck. Holds my dad, he's like, mid-60s, early-60s, something like that. But he's in his 60s, an older guy, and he's like. He's now. He's just now learning how to play guitar. Like, he's been learning how to play guitar for the past, like, year or two. I think it's. It's really cool. I love it that he's like, you know, in the 60s, but still learn how to do that shit. And anyway, I was. I was at Union Square park or one of the New York parks, and I saw this, like, older guy just, like, playing the. The bagpipes or the saxophone or. I forget what instrument he's playing. Let's say it was the bagpipes, and he's playing the bagpipes and he's just kind of. And people are walking by and they're smiling and, you know, everything you were saying, the beautiful thing, like, it's so cool to have like. Like a free thing happening in a public place where folks just are living their life and they walk by and they smile, and it's cool. And I was. I was watching this guy, and I was, like, thinking about my dad, and I was like, you know, and I was. At the time, I was also kind of thinking about, like, what the fuck is my. What's my life gonna be like when I'm that age? And I was like, maybe. Maybe I'll learn the bagpipes when I'm 60. And I'll just be like, this guy at the park, and I'll just do that, and that's. That. That didn't say. I guess the. The fantasy of that in my head, I was like, that doesn't sound too bad being. Being this guy at the park. Whatever. I mean, if that guy was saying. If that guy turned to me and he was like, that was. That was pretty good, right? I'm going to be playing Madison Square Garden when I'm in my 90s. I'd be like, I don't know about that. But if you're like, just be. Being in that moment is pretty cool. You know, It's a. It's a nice service to provide for society, to just Play music out in public. It's cool.

Jack Shepherd (32:04)

And in this like maybe my. I kind of got out of busking after some, some very negative experiences that were traumatic. And so I kind of made a hard exit and it's probably like biased me away from it, you know. So it's like I immediately start talking about the good of it and then just go, oh yeah, but the bad of it as well. But yeah, that, that thing. I mean I still love it and I still do it sometimes not so much for, for money. And I'm, you know, very lucky to have this gig. You know, it's, it's the more than I ever dreamed I would have kind of thing. But yeah, the beauty of going and playing for people in the street and, and those moments that you do get, especially for younger musicians. I still, I still encourage anyone, you know, so you can get out to a street where there's a bunch of people around and you feel like it's safe to do so. I seriously recommend it. It's just a beautiful thing, you know, when people are all just gathered, being present, you know, Are there a lot of.

Host (33:11)

Were there any turf wars? Like did you ever have someone be like, hey, this is my spot?

Jack Shepherd (33:16)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's most of what you deal with when you. I call it professional busking. It might sound weird to some people, but yeah, I was a professional busker. And yeah, that's most of what you deal with. So you have queue systems which is where first in best dressed you, you get there first and you either choose your spot or you get the next spot in line that's available at the end of the queue. Or you have draw systems which is like everyone rocks up at a given time and draws straws or sticks with numbers on them or something.

Host (33:48)

And this is all very, this is like informal, right? So you could, you could shiny eyed, walk, all walk up to Hyde park and be like, I'm gonna play the saxophone right here. It's a public park. And then all of a sudden a bunch of clowns and jugglers and the guitarists are like, hey, we have rules here, buddy.

Jack Shepherd (34:09)

Hey buddy. This is a group of people who are extremely likely to be sort of like a little bit, you know, anti government, if not anarchist. But there's some fucking rules here, buddy, right?

Host (34:20)

That's, that's the funny dude. That's the funny thing is like, yeah, it is kind of like a, like a hippie, like anti. It is kind of like an anarchist thing to just be like, I'm gonna just go to this public place and start a concert and then so slowly you start a little government around it. I mean. Yeah, you know.

Jack Shepherd (34:40)

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a funny thing, you know. What's the phrase? Power aboard the vacuum. Right. So if there's no, if there's no sort of hierarchy system, then people just kind of naturally make one. I found that to be true all over the world, like everywhere I've bust. At least you know, I haven't been all over the world, but I've been to a few, few different countries and yeah, it's like you'll, you'll have, it's something like 97 male. So you'll have. And we need more women, Duskin, you know, so like any, any creative women of any kind, you know, encourage you and find your local, find your local community of buskers and get amongst it and you know, put, put the dick swinging egocentric fuckers on their place.

Host (35:31)

Yeah, swing. Swing some fucking labor on. Dude, we need, Yep, we need, we need, we need all kinds of people swinging all kinds of stuff all over, all over the world. Well, tell me this. Yeah, tell me this. Of all the places you've been, what's the best place to busk? Like give me like, give me like a place in a city, in a country or whatever. And then the worst. By the way, also, while you think about that, I also just thought. I don't. We're too late in this conversation for me to say this, but in case, if anyone doesn't know busking means to like play music in public.

Jack Shepherd (36:13)

Yeah. True to true.

Host (36:14)

We're too late. I know this is late for me to say that, but I've used the word busking in front of people for. And they. I don't know if a lot of people knows what that means, but anyway, sorry, go ahead.

Jack Shepherd (36:25)

Actually, that reminded me of something else. If anyone's looking to get into busking and you're wondering like people don't have cash, how am I going to collect tips? There's a site called Busk Co B U S K dot co and they let you hook up. I think it's, I think it's stripe and PayPal to a QR code that they'll also do the design for you and for a nominal fee like print it out on foam board and send it to you so you have signage so people can then scan a QR code and tip you with like Apple Pay and all that kind of stuff. But.

Host (36:59)

Or you just use Venmo. You can just write your Venmo down on a piece of the paper. Sorry, no. Use your website. Never mind, never mind. Sorry.

Jack Shepherd (37:06)

No, true, true. Like, you guys have Venmo and Cash app in the us? Oh, yeah, I've never bust in the US Right, right.

Host (37:14)

I forgot.

Jack Shepherd (37:15)

I tried. Yeah, I tried to play in Las Vegas, which is the first place I went in the States once. And it was like the first or second time I went out on the street. You know, a private security guard pulled a pistol on me and I was like, oh, I'm definitely in America.

Host (37:31)

God, yeah. He pulled a pistol on you?

Jack Shepherd (37:35)

Yeah, like, you know, one of these private security dudes for the, for the casino there. I won't say which casino, but, like, it didn't point it at me, but pointed it, you know, 45 degrees to the ground. Like, I'm serious, you have to move. And I was like, jesus, like, I'm in Australia. You can argue with a cop and they probably don't even have a gun, at least in my experience. So, yeah, it was. It was a bit of a culture shock. But yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. It can be kind of crazy. So maybe Vegas, maybe not the best place to busk.

Host (38:14)

That's a good answer.

Jack Shepherd (38:15)

I do have. I do have a great mate who, um, makes his living, for the most part, busking there and kind of depends on the act. And it's also like, I'm not American, so I don't know the subtle culture and how to. How to hook people and how to. How to work on the street there and hustle. Right. You know, that's a whole. That's a whole other beast I haven't conquered.

Host (38:36)

I'll say this about Vegas is one time I was walking down the. I was dressed up as the Gecko and I was walking down the Strip and this like 12 year old came up to me and he was like, hey, man, I listened to your podcast and I was like, do you. Too fucking young to listen to my podcast. But whatever. I, like, I took. I took a picture with him and then. And then his mom runs up after him after, like, his mom runs up to me after he leaves and he's like, hey, thank you. And she tries to give me $5. So that's the. That's the best place I've ever busked.

Jack Shepherd (39:14)

Yeah, dude, you could fully. You could fully take tips and like, you know those videos that go around of like, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, and they give like, advice on the street. You could totally set up like a Tip bucket.

Host (39:26)

And wait, is that. Are there actually like busking lawyers?

Jack Shepherd (39:31)

I've seen, I've seen on Instagram, so it's probably just my algorithm, but. And I say those. I've seen one dude multiple times, so maybe it's just his shtick.

Host (39:41)

But yeah, like, like the Charlie Brown thing. Except with lawyer. Except with. Yeah, law advice. Man, that's fucking crazy that somebody pulled a gun on you for fucking just busking. That sucks.

Jack Shepherd (39:55)

Oh, dude, that's not even the, that's not even the craziest time with guns. Mexico was fucking nuts and had nothing to do with busking. I'll tell you the story if you want to hear it, but I haven't answered your question. I'm notoriously bad at answering.

Host (40:09)

Okay, hold on. I'm putting, I'm putting the pin in Mexico call. I'm going to ask you about that afterwards. But yes, give me the best place.

Jack Shepherd (40:15)

Best place is hands down, Edinburgh, Scotland Fringe Festival, which is the month of August.

Host (40:22)

Yeah, yeah.

Jack Shepherd (40:23)

If, if people are looking for something to go and like, go and do and they like the arts and, and then Edinburgh Fringe, like, oh, it's a life changing thing. I went for the first time in 2015 and became one of the regular crowd in just on one pitch there where a lot of maybe high impact musicians play. So basically musicians who have big speakers and then there are, I think it's like 200 buskers of all different, you know, of sort of the, what I'd call the OG disciplines, you know, circle shows where it's like, you know, comedy and juggling or something dangerous or, you know, there's even dudes who set up tightropes. There's a chick called Kate Muir shout out who does like a Marie Antoinette, like full on, you know, mime act. People on 10 foot unicycles, giraffe unicycles. And then I've seen some of the most incredible stuff on the street there. I've seen, you know, the entire royal mile blocked off and a guy, you know, climbing up a drainpipe and into an apartment, you know, with a thousand people walking off the street watching him. And like just these, these master entertainers who have been doing it for, you know, a couple of decades who just really know how to make a show from nothing, you know, and they'll, they'll, you know, some dudes have a big, a big box of kit and unicycle and all sorts of stuff. Some dudes have, you know, a mic, headset, microphone and a deck of cards and can can do massive shows. Like, you see all sorts of incredible stuff and that's just the street. Like, you. You've got. You've got stage shows, like all these big artists who you wouldn't expect to see in like a small club or whatever will be trying out new stuff. You got comedy, theater, music, poetry, street and historical pause. It's like. It's a. It's a magic place.

Host (42:27)

So I do have to ask. It's interesting. You say it's the best one. Is it not a little tricky to be busking during Edinburgh because there's so much competition around you?

Jack Shepherd (42:43)

There is competition and there is a whole thing with the draw and there is, you know, drama all month long and all that kind of stuff. I mean, if it's the first time, if you've never buffed and you're going to be like, so it's my first time. I want to go and go and do this big festival. It might be a bit like, you know, it's just kind of water up to you, up to your chest instead of, you know, up to your ankles. But, you know, it's. It's just incredible. Like, I'd recommend anyone to go. There's different formats, so different sort of levels of performer will be given different spots in different places. They have storage for a really, really reasonable fee that you can use all month long. If you've got a lot of equipment, they've got security to look after it. Like, they've got an ID system. Like, it's. It's the only place in the world where you'll go and be treated really, really well as a busker. You know, if you don't have a visa for the uk, they will give you a letter that grants you access to the festival. It's visa free. So it's like the other busk is gonna hate me for advertising the festival because, you know, there's a lot of that. I mean, I mean, too many newcomers.

Host (43:53)

It's the. It's like one of the biggest fringe. It's. It's, I think, the biggest fringe festival in the world. So it's. I don't think you're. I don't think it's exactly gate kept.

Jack Shepherd (44:06)

Yeah.

Host (44:07)

Now, Jack.

Jack Shepherd (44:07)

I mean, yeah, the worst place.

Host (44:12)

No, no, no, I was gonna ask you that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I like this sentence. What went down in Mexico, Jack?

Jack Shepherd (44:23)

So I got really into motorcycles in 2023 with my buddy Shout out to David Morin Music. He is an unbelievable musician, but we were ripping through the. Through the desert outside of SJD on the west peninsula there in Mexico on these little, these little motorbikes that you, you really couldn't register in the US or Australia. They were, they're real rickety pieces of shit. But we're going to this oasis for the day. It's like, apparently there's this oasis out there where it's like rock pools and swimming in the middle of this desert. So we're ripping and we, we come around a corner, you know, through mountains and deserts and all that, and there's all of a sudden an oasis town. So we know we're in, we're in the right spot, you know, lush, green as fuck, something out of a movie. And you know, we're in Mexico, you can get green smokable stuff pretty easily. So we ride to the top of a hill. It's like a little outlook outpost kind of thing that looks down over the town and we stop, get off our bikes. We're dressed in all black, you know, so no one could really see, you know, who all told or what we are. And we, we start rolling a J. And these, we see these like utes, we call them in Australia. So you'd call them like a, like a truck, you know, with the, the bench seats in the back and, and military police, you know, sitting in the back, you know, decked head to toe in gear and you know, guns and all that. For anyone who's wondering, like in Australia we don't have a lot of guns, so I don't know my way around them. So sorry I can't describe this that accurately, but we see them from up on this little outpost and we think, oh, they're not coming up here for us. And before we have any idea what's going on, they're pulling up on us, right? So it's like five or six dudes get out and you know, they're decked out like, you know, full on military and they've got clips on their, on their chest and like semi automatic cannons, you know, with their hands on them. And my buddy Dave, he speaks a lot more Spanish than I do at this point. I've only been there a month or so, but we, you know, they come up to us and, and he kind of kind of freezes up and I'm just like, well, I don't have any other option than to say g' day or, or what, what, Whatever. I said, it must have been Ola. And everyone there, like everyone in that town didn't seemed to matter how old or young they were. They Would greet you with like a fist bump or a slap of the hands and then a fist bump. So I just said g' day or hola and held up my fist and the dude kind of instinctively took his hand off the butt of his weapon to like fist bump me. So then it was like, okay, like a little bit of the tension broken. But what I didn't realize when I kind of did this was that there was a guy standing right behind me. And just as I do this, he just pokes me in the back of the neck with. With his fucking cannon. And like, man, I've never gone so fucking cold in my life. Just like, you know, figuratively made a new underwear. And yeah, the guy just kind of barked at us to, you know, to show us showing passports. And we both happened to have our passports on us, which was fucking saving grace. But you know, those are military police dudes who are out there looking for like cartel guys. Right? You know, because that's the, that's the whole, that's the whole thing that's going on underneath the economy and community of the local township. So as soon as he saw that we were like, oh, these aren't cartel dudes. There's no face tats and you know, I'm white as you know, so probably helped. They kind of behaved like, ah, we wanted to see some fucking acting today. And I didn't speak Spanish enough, but I could see from their body language and you know, the guy's kicking the dirt like, oh, I wanted to beat some dudes up. But yeah, and, and to make things worse, it was like when they, when they rolled up on us, you know, we were. He had. My buddy had his hat over my hands to stop the wind from blowing away the weed I was trying to roll. So they just caught us red handed, like rolling a. Rolling a J. But they didn't really speak enough English to. To say like that's, that's not okay or like a confiscating or like, you gotta pay us or you know, whatever they were gonna do. But yeah, man, that was, that was absolutely mental. But I basically just said like, lo, sorry sir, you know, and put, put the weed in rollies in my pocket. He kind of looked at me like, you can't, you can't do that. You know? And I was kind of thinking like, well, you don't speak enough English to, to tell me otherwise.

Host (49:11)

So however much English he speaks, he's got a big fucking gun. He can kind of tell you whatever he wants.

Jack Shepherd (49:20)

Yeah, yeah, I was, I was Not. Not exactly thinking I was in a good situation at the time. But. Yeah, once we showed them my passports and it was like. Yeah. And then.

Host (49:31)

Yeah.

Jack Shepherd (49:31)

And then, man, we. We rolled on to this. We did end up rolling the J later on in the day and after we got to this little oasis called Santiago. And it was like one of the most beautiful fucking places I've ever been. It was like five bucks or something to spend the whole day in this crazy, like, natural water parking. Nice way to relax after that intense situation.

Host (49:58)

But it sounds like overall, I would say it sounds like overall, the. The sea has been a lot safer for you in your career in general than the land.

Jack Shepherd (50:11)

Yeah.

Host (50:14)

I'm glad to hear that you've. Yeah. That your. Your. Your career has skyrocketed. It sounds. That's really awesome.

Jack Shepherd (50:24)

Yeah, man. Like, it's. It's helped dissolve a lot of my sort of illusions about the world and sort of, I think, kind of juvenile thinking, and it's also made me a lot more just sane. Like. Like, I used to. I used to smoke quite a lot of weed, you know, for a good few years after I stopped busking and kind of kid myself that it was helping me. It does help some people. I'm not speaking badly of it, you know, but it's just not compatible with me. And it made me a very paranoid, like, uncommunicative, kind of depressed person. And yes, stopping, because obviously you can't get it on the ship and, you know, you've got to be compass mentors to do your job, your performances. Yeah, it's just I'm enjoying my own company better and the relationship that I. That I started with my lady in France just before I started doing this gig is flourishing and sort of everything I've. Everything I've ever wanted out of a relationship. So I'm. I've got a lot to be thankful for and. And I'm having a fat time.

Host (51:44)

Yeah. Jack, is there. Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?

Jack Shepherd (51:53)

Is it all right for me to share my Instagram?

Host (51:55)

Yeah, well, actually, you know what's funny is I was looking at the Twitch chat and like, the second after you said, my name is Jack shepherd, but I won't be sharing my handle, I was like. Like somebody already posted your website in the chat. Yeah, well, I mean, that's what happens when you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Go ahead. Share whatever you share. Share all your stuff.

Jack Shepherd (52:18)

Yeah, I said I wasn't going to, but here we are. So it's from the days when you had to get your handle on social media by removing vowels from it because someone else had the. The tag I wanted, but it's a Mr. Shepherd without the vowels. So M, R, S, H, P, H, r, d. So, Mr. Shepherd.

Host (52:43)

All right, I'm looking you up.

Jack Shepherd (52:43)

Yeah, it's just. Oh, it's just. It's just that everywhere.

Host (52:49)

Holy.

Jack Shepherd (52:49)

Dude, we've had this.

Host (52:52)

Man. You look. This is cool. Just. I'm just scrolling through your Instagram. You're a cool ass, dude.

Jack Shepherd (52:58)

This is very kind, man.

Host (53:00)

Look at this. Oh, yeah.

Jack Shepherd (53:02)

Anyone?

Host (53:03)

You're like. You're like the Australian. You're like the Australian John Mayer. Dude.

Jack Shepherd (53:10)

Wait till you hear me play guitar before you say that, because that's a. That's a very good compliment.

Host (53:14)

Oh, I haven't heard him play guitar either, but you guys just look. That's cool.

Jack Shepherd (53:20)

Yeah, that's funny you say that because there's a dude who looks more like him and plays more like him from my busking pitch in. In Sydney. From my home pitch. But yeah, because. Because you've. Because we've had this conversation now, and I'm about to do my last set in the sort of main spot on the. On the ship. I'll live stream my. My set later on tonight. And hey, may as well shout you out. Like, seeing you. Let me do it here. And.

Host (53:50)

I'm looking at. I'm looking at this post. I've scrolled through your entire Instagram. You don't post very often. I'm looking through. Okay, for. This is from March 12, 2019. You posted a picture of a bearded dragon that you have.

Jack Shepherd (54:05)

I love bearded dragons, man.

Host (54:07)

Oh, look at dragon.

Jack Shepherd (54:10)

Not my bearded dragon, but one I was allowed to pose with for some photos for the COVID of a CD that is on Spotify. But yeah, they're beautiful little animals, man. They actually have three eyes.

Host (54:23)

Look at this picture of you, like, fixing a Fuck. I don't even know what. You're like, doing a science experiment.

Jack Shepherd (54:31)

That'll be me building. That'd be from 2014 or 15. Building an electronic monstrosity of a looper and effects machine by cobbling together a bunch of other products and rewiring them. That actually leads me to.

Host (54:50)

I like this photo.

Jack Shepherd (54:53)

We're cutting each other off. Anyone who wants to learn how to loop or needs advice on busking and equipment and how to do all of that, it's like when I'm not performing, I'm building rigs in my head and helping other people with it. I haven't turned it into a formal business just yet. Like the whole building custom things for people or building instruments. But anyone who wants to learn how to loop, how to. How to busk and some. Some tips for it, feel free to hit me up and I will talk to you. You know, just like I've been talking to the Geck here all day, you know, until the cows come home. It's just for the love of it and for the passion of it.

Chunk (55:34)

Dude.

Host (55:34)

Fuck yeah, that's. I hope you get. I hope you get some dms, man. If some. If you. If you get connected with some people through this, that would be really awesome.

Jack Shepherd (55:44)

Oh, good. Absolutely. And yeah, Geck nation, man. It's real, real cool. I really didn't expect to just get through the first time I called.

Host (55:54)

Look at this picture of you. Like, you're like sitting down with the Tims and you're like looking away and you have your hand on the. On the back of your neck. You look so bashful. This is.

Jack Shepherd (56:06)

This is.

Host (56:06)

You gotta. You got a cool. You got. You got such a. You have like a. Such a great, like. Like I'm like, like, I don't know how curated this is, but you've got a great like, artist image of like a sweet, sensitive, brooding man. I like it, dude.

Jack Shepherd (56:24)

That's my. My biggest Achilles heel is like self perception, like understanding what's good or bad about what I'm doing and trying to create an artist image. Like, I've just bought all this kit to. To do like quality live streams and stuff, and I just don't know what to put on as my main. That's my main thing, you know? But yeah, like that. That photo shoot was supposed to be a trio shoot and then our bassist couldn't make it, so me and my buddy were offered a fat joint by the. By the person shooting the person who owned the gallery or studio. And there are some hilarious shots from that. Like we. We were just out of our minds. And there's a shot where I'm like pushing out my stomach and my buddy's like behind me, like. Like he's like. He's cradling the baby. It's like it's a maternity shoot and shit. It's some funny, funny shit. But yeah, in those photos, I just don't know. I don't know how to look in. In photos, man. I have this point in Meat suit.

Host (57:24)

Yes, you do. Yes, you do. You. You might not yet. Let me tell you. This is the last thing I'm Gonna tell you, J, is you might not. You might not be able to intellectualize it, how you look in photos, but you. You. You. You know how to do it. Your essence knows how to do it. You know, I. I don't say this lightly, Jack. I'm just looking through your Instagram, and I'm like this. You were born to be a star. You're the Australian Jack Mayer. And I hope. I hope. I hope that one day. One day John Mayer does a Jack Mayer. I forget what I said. I hope one day John Mayer becomes the American Jack Shepherd.

Jack Shepherd (58:09)

I'd be having a very, very good career if that happened. But, you know, a man can dream and. Yeah, man. Like, if you're. If you're ever in the. In the same place at the same time, if I'm ever doing a concert where there are tickets, you know, free tickets for you and the Geck Nation, bro, please.

Host (58:29)

That would be. That would be cool. Maybe one day. Maybe one day we can busk together. I'll play tambourine.

Jack Shepherd (58:35)

Oh, that'd be sick. I'll have to get a bearded dragon costume.

Host (58:39)

See you later, Jack. Thank you for calling.

Jack Shepherd (58:43)

One last thing, though. There's no justification for killing children. There's just none. It's fucking indefensible.

Host (58:52)

Rock and roll. Later, Jack.

Jack Shepherd (58:54)

Peace. Thanks.

Host (58:55)

That was pretty cool. Yeah, I like. I like. I like busking. I'll. I'll. Sometimes if I'm, like, in a place, I'll just. And I see a busker, I'll just stand there and watch for a while. I'll watch. I'll watch people watch. It is one of those moments where everyone gathers and you're like, okay. Like, I don't know. Throughout all the, like, crazy AI doomerism and everyone being on their phones and. And like, shit. There's something about just watching someone just, like, play music in a public park, and everyone's, like, dancing and watching along, where you're like, everything will. Everything will probably maybe be okay. And that's, you know, that's Good enough.

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A lot of the flavors. Flavors that I've heard are like peach, mango, watermelon. It makes it seem, like, more childlike and innocent. Oh, if I tried this once, it won't be that much of a problem. But then eventually, it becomes a problem.

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Host (62:47)

Hi.

Chunk (62:48)

Hi.

Host (62:48)

What's your name?

Chunk (62:49)

Chunk.

Host (62:51)

That's a cool name.

Chunk (62:53)

Yeah, it is, like, my favorite word.

Host (62:57)

What's up, Chunk? How's life?

Chunk (63:01)

It's going. I mean, it's my 22nd birthday today.

Host (63:06)

You sound like you're 47 years old.

Chunk (63:09)

Well, that's. That's reassuring. I feel like I'm 47 years old.

Host (63:13)

Do you actually feel like you're 47 years old?

Chunk (63:15)

Well, kind of. That's kind of why I called in is because I feel like I kind of, like, speed ran life a little bit, and now I'm, like, not thrilled with where I'm at, and I'm like, well, now what?

Host (63:27)

What do you mean you speed ran life?

Chunk (63:31)

Well? Like, on paper, everything in my life looks, like, pretty good. I think. Like, I. I'm 22. I, like, live alone with my girlfriend, who I've been with for four years. I have a bachelor's degree, like, a really good job and everything, but, like, really all I do is just, like, sit at home and play FIFA all day or, like, video. Another video game.

Host (63:53)

You're 40. No, you're not 47. You're 22. How did you speed run life? Like, what did you do? So, like, you okay? So, like, you, okay, you live with your girlfriend and you have a job.

Chunk (64:04)

Yeah.

Host (64:04)

And you're like, all right, I'm doing the whole. I'm domestic. I am. I'm living a conventional domestic life.

Chunk (64:13)

Exactly.

Host (64:13)

22. And I have. But. And I didn't. I didn't go crazy enough. Is that what's going on?

Chunk (64:19)

Exactly. Kind of. Kind of like that. But I never, like, when I was, like, doing all that stuff, like, I went to online college, so I didn't really, like, have that, like, typical, like, college experience, you know, which I didn't really want at the time. And now I kind of. I kind of do want it, but, like, I also don't want to go into debt to, like, get another degree.

Host (64:40)

No, that's, you know, really stupid. Well, what do you do?

Chunk (64:42)

Yeah, I. I, like, work with software for, like, a construction company. It's. It's, like, boring. And I. I honestly, like, I'm trying to find a different job that, like, wouldn't be as boring because, like, I do, like, what I do. I just think it's, like, the job, the specific job. I don't really like.

Host (65:01)

But you're, you're a software, you're a software engineer.

Chunk (65:05)

Not, not like a software engineer. I just like support software. So, like, if there's an issue with it, like they talk to me or I like project manage and all that stuff.

Host (65:15)

Do you work from home?

Chunk (65:18)

Yeah, which is sweet, but it's also like, I sit at home all the time. You know, it's kind of like a dope, double edged sword.

Host (65:27)

And if you will. You work from home. Do you like work nine to five?

Chunk (65:32)

Yeah. Yep, basically.

Host (65:35)

Okay. And what? No. Yeah. Going back to college, going into debt to have a nice time would be a bad.

Chunk (65:47)

Exactly.

Host (65:47)

Do you make, and you make money at this job?

Chunk (65:51)

Yeah, yeah, I make good enough money. I mean, it's not like the best, but it's better than a lot of people.

Host (65:57)

Okay, so what do you, you just want something that you want to do? Something cool and exciting?

Chunk (66:04)

Yeah, yeah. But every time, like I have like desires to do stuff that's cool and exciting, I just like can't like pick myself up enough to do it. You know? Like, I, I, I have this thing every day and it's like, why I've been like non stop listening to the show because I sympathize with a lot of people. It's like I just like want to do all this stuff but like, and I have like time, some time and resources to do it. I just like can't like pick myself up to like actually go do it. You know what I mean?

Host (66:36)

Here's a. You. I don't have to say that I am not a doctor.

Jack Shepherd (66:43)

Mm.

Host (66:45)

And so I won't. Although I'm not a doctor. However, I'm like, for truly my, my brother from personal experience. Have you considered, and don't take it from me, go talk to a, you know, whatever person. But do you just like have fucking adhd?

Chunk (67:08)

I haven't been diagnosed, but I kind of a little bit suspect it.

Host (67:15)

Yeah.

Chunk (67:16)

But I actually have thought about going to therapy recently. I need to just pick my, like, once again, it's one of those things where it's like, I know I need to do it and I want to do it. I just like have to go through the actual steps. So.

Host (67:29)

But I, I mean, I'm only, I, I'm only saying this because like, I have it and I have a ton of friends who have it and it's like, this is like just such a classic.

Chunk (67:40)

Yeah.

Host (67:40)

I mean, I don't, I'm not gonna say you gotta go get on, take a Bunch of drugs. I'm not, I'm not saying that. I recently started taking a bunch of ADHD medicine and now feel amazing all the time. And so I'm telling you to go do it. But I mean it's worth it to go talk to a person about it because you know what it is is because everything. Here's the thing, right? Like, like situationally you can do whatever you want. You can go live in Denver for a month and. Yeah. And you know, you're working, you see of money so you can do it. I don't know. What's your, what's your girlfriend? Well actually, hold on, what's your girlfriend's deal?

Chunk (68:23)

She's, she's kind of in a similar spot. Like she has like a, she actually just quit her job but like it was like a daycare job that was like driving her crazy. So she's like kind of in a similar spot where like she has stuff she wants to do but like, I don't know, I don't really want to speak for her but she like, I would say kind of similar like sort of thing. Her, her anxiety is kind of like more what like her I guess issue is. I don't know if that's like a mean thing to say though.

Host (68:54)

That's, I mean like in talking about like you and the specific thing that you brought up where it's like, yeah, okay. I feel like I, I live the life of a, of a, you know, 47 year old married couple. It's like, well you don't have, you don't have to. I mean, what would you.

Chunk (69:11)

Yeah, no, I agree.

Host (69:13)

Well, you're telling me, you're saying I have things I want to do but I just can't like bring myself to do them. What are, what are the things?

Chunk (69:21)

Like mostly honestly traveling, like I know it's, it's kind of stupid. The thing that, the thing that prevents me from doing it the most is my job. Like even do work remote. Like I feel like if I was in a different time zone it would kind of like ruin the experience of actually traveling. Like having to do that. I can like take off like a week or so, but like I really want to do like the long term travel sort of thing. But I've been trying to plan. I was looking at a trip to Thailand maybe later this year. I think that's like, that would like kick ass and like help me out a bunch.

Host (69:57)

Yeah, that would kick ass. You do have the problem of like your hours get all fucked. But I don't what kind of job are you? Because here's my question is. I mean, you're 22, so you just started working at this company.

Chunk (70:11)

I've been there for a year. So, like, I. Actually, that's like, kind of what I'm saying too is like, I. On paper, like, it looks really good. Like, I worked like full time through college. Like, I. It didn't feel that hard, but like, to an external person, that, like, looks really good. You know what I mean? Are you doing.

Host (70:27)

Are you. Are you doing something where you are. Where, like, I don't. I have no idea what you do in your job day to day. Are you doing something where you're like, constantly, like, interfacing with people throughout the day and you have to like, be like, respond to slacks at certain times?

Chunk (70:44)

Exactly.

Host (70:45)

Okay. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay. So that makes it hard. That makes it harder.

Chunk (70:49)

Yeah, exactly. And I, like, I would love to just like, try to like, go to Thailand and like, not take off work, but then I feel like pretty quickly I would get like, pretty tired of getting messages at like, whatever, like 2:00am no, that was having to get up and respond to it.

Host (71:04)

Yeah, that would suck. That would suck. But you're. But you have to. Yeah, but you have time to make it to Thailand. I mean, why don't you go to, like. Yeah, there's a lot of cool places you could go to that are on the. I'm sorry, where did you say where you live now?

Chunk (71:20)

I'm in Pennsylvania in the, like, Lehigh Valley area.

Host (71:23)

You're on. You're on est. There's a lot of cool places you can go on those, on the, on those hours is all of fucking South America. There's all of like, Mexico and what, you know, Guatemala and like, there's adventures. Like, if you, if you're just telling me, yeah, you want to go on an adventure. I mean, I. I've been working remote for five years and I, I had one time like three years ago where I was having an. Another existential crisis and I was like, I got to go do something crazy. So I went to. I went to Guatemala for like, like a weekend. And I like, just filmed videos and stuff, and that was fun. And as you know, that's on the same. You go there. You could go Puerto Rico.

Chunk (72:20)

That's a good point.

Host (72:21)

You could go to Honduras. I just have to, like, I don't. I don't know what's going on, so I don't want. Don't. I don't know what's going on in Honduras. So I don't want you to go there and die. And then in the news article, it's like a gecko told him to go.

Chunk (72:36)

A gecko got him killed in Guatemala.

Host (72:38)

But this. But you know what it is, is I actually don't even think I'm just projecting upon you, but I don't even think that this is like a. Oh, I need a recommendation of a place to go. This is like a. Yeah. Mental. This is. Yeah, that's. I don't even know why I'm talking about that shit. Because this is like a mental hurdle.

Chunk (72:54)

That's a good point too though, because, like, I think I just like get hyper fixated on like one kind of trip. Like, like the month long trip to like somewhere very foreign.

Host (73:05)

Yeah, like, right, right Isn't what it.

Chunk (73:08)

Needs to be though.

Host (73:09)

No, not at all.

Chunk (73:10)

That's what you're saying and I, I agree with that. But yeah, it is a lot harder like to like get myself to do things. I think you were right. Like, I do just need to take that step of like going to a therapist. I did it last year and I feel like he was. I actually like did have a time last year for like, like six months where I was like doing ever. Like, I was like almost like in that like perfect little like. I don't want to say grind, but like I was doing everything I wanted to be doing. Like, that's kind of like the main crux of it is like I have things I want to be doing, but I end up just like scrolling on Instagram and watching YouTube videos and playing video games all day. You know, it's like I, it's. It's. The tough part is like getting myself to do the things I actually like want to be doing. You know, like reading is like, I want to read more. It's like all the typical stuff, like read, work out, like, you know what I mean?

Host (74:09)

Yeah, take a. But, yeah, take a start taking a bunch of, of meth. It'll help a lot to do those things.

Chunk (74:19)

I already smoke a bunch of weed.

Host (74:20)

So there's a lot, there's a lot of shit like this where it's, it's such. It's like a Nike just do it thing. But also there could be some. Yeah, I, Yeah, I don't know. Go talk to a doctor, man. I used to be part of me too, that. My head. I used to be in my head about. Yeah, there's some, There's a lot of. This is just like again, Nike just do it. But now I'm now, just from a personal level, I'm like, oh, wait, maybe there's. There's. I mean, there's a lot of chemical going on.

Chunk (74:54)

Yeah. Oh, definitely.

Host (74:56)

Go ahead, Go ahead.

Chunk (74:57)

I've. I've noticed it a lot in the last year, but there's part of me too that's like, should it. Should I be content? Like, if this is the thing that, like, my. I. It's. I have a hard time reconciling, like, if what my brain wants me to do in the current moment is, like, what I should be doing versus, like, what in, like, my. I guess, like my higher conscious mind thinks I should be doing. You know, like, I almost feel like I should find like, like peace and like, happiness in the things I'm already doing. Like, all the dumb I do. Like, you know, I, Like, I. I'm in a very fortunate position to be able to wake up, you know, like five minutes after work starts, go make a bowl of Yogurt and watch YouTube for an hour until I get a team's message. You know what I mean?

Host (75:48)

Yeah, but don't I want. What's your name again?

Chunk (75:53)

Junk.

Host (75:54)

Junk. Oh, yeah, you said that. Junk. Everything you're saying to me, and also the fact that you're telling me that you. That just the things that people talk about on this podcast are resonate with you. It's like all I. All those thoughts that you're saying right now.

Chunk (76:10)

Mm.

Host (76:10)

I've had all of them. I've. I've been attacked by shoulds and I've let you know, should kind of run my brain and mental whatever, a lot. But, dude, fucking just. How do I say this? I want to say there's nothing you should be doing. And I do kind of. I do, like, philosophically, I guess, believe that. But.

Chunk (76:46)

Yeah.

Host (76:49)

Well, also, it's. It's like, what are we having this conversation for? Just go to. Fucking. Just go. It's on the thing, dude. Just go on the thing. Go on. Go to. Go to. Go see a therapist or a psychiatrist and find out if. If they're like, hey, you probably have this thing you should take medication for and then go on the trip. You know, there's.

Jack Shepherd (77:11)

No.

Host (77:12)

I don't. Yeah, I. I mean, we could philosophize size fights about this all day. I personally, I mean, I am blessed enough to have ran a. Ran a gamut and that. What you're talking about is. Is a balance of. That I've personally been trying to find in my own life for a long time. And. Yeah, only. Only. Only I'm telling you, extremely recently have I felt like I found that balance. I'm like, extremely recently, like, I'm sorry, like a month have I felt like I found some balance and it might fall apart and I might be.

Chunk (77:57)

That's what it happens to me.

Host (77:58)

Oh, yeah. I always say, you always feel like you got there, and then. And then a little an old demon shows up and he's like, hey, remember me? I got hotter.

Chunk (78:09)

A little demon of Instagram reels.

Host (78:12)

Yeah.

Chunk (78:12)

Or something like that.

Host (78:14)

Yeah. But I don't know. Just like, yeah, go talk to a fucking real person and see if they are like, hey, you got to take pills.

Chunk (78:29)

Yeah.

Host (78:30)

And definitely I. I've been procrastinating that.

Chunk (78:33)

For a long time.

Host (78:35)

Yeah, it's a. It's a real cat and mouse game because you're like, you know, you gotta. You know, you gotta make an appointment for a thing, and then you go. And then there. And then. And then they send you a form, and the second you make a phone call and they send you a form, and you see the form, and it, like, you see one question in the form where you're like, oh, crap, in order to answer this, I got to find this other information. You're like, it's over. I'm never. I'm going to die.

Chunk (79:01)

Yeah.

Host (79:01)

Without ever doing this.

Chunk (79:04)

Yes, absolutely.

Host (79:06)

Have you ever been on a trip?

Chunk (79:10)

Last year, my girlfriend. I went up to Maine for, like, a week. That's kind of the same trip. I think I need to just. Do, you know, we. We, like, have a trip up to Massachusetts with my family. And that's a hard thing, too, is like, I always have, like. Well, it's not hard. I don't know. I don't know how to say it really, but it's like, I have these, like, family trips that, like, take away from. Like, I want saying, disregard that. It's. That's fine.

Host (79:35)

That's like, no, I know, I know, I know. I know. I know exactly what I think. I know exactly what you want to say, but feel bad expressing, which is like, you're on. You're on the family trip, but you're like. And in your head, you're like, I should be grateful I'm on this family trip. But in your gut, you're like, yeah, but in your gut, you're like, yeah, but this ain't the sauce, you know?

Chunk (79:58)

Yeah, I've done the same exact thing, like, 10 times. You know, I've gone to the same little town in Massachusetts, like, 10 times.

Host (80:05)

No, here's I also believe this in a sense of. I like having this conversation we're having. We're having because I kind of feel like I know where your brain is at and you're. You're five years younger than me and I know what you're. Because you're eventually going to get to a. I think this is part of getting older is like, yeah, like if I, you know, I've been on a billion trips and done a billion things where I'm like, oh, yeah, this is the sauce. And then later, and then even after that felt again, only up until very recently. I still, after going on all those trips, felt unsatiated and felt like, oh, I don't know what I'm doing. Am I doing what I. Only very recently have I locked into a life rhythm where I'm like, okay, I feel confident about this. And now that I'm there, ish. Maybe. Who knows What. Who knows? Whatever. Do I now feel like if my mom and stepdad wanted me to go with them to Maine and I would. And I, I only now, after I've gotten all of that out of my system and felt like I'm on a nice track and I'm not preoccupied with what I should be doing, can I now be like, fully in the moment with my mom and my stepdad as I should, or I. Yeah, as you know. You know, I mean, but it takes. It takes getting a little older. It takes finding a nice rhythm for yourself and your life that you feel good about, and that just. That just takes time. So don't. You don't have to feel bad about what you're feeling right now, but, you know, you'll. You'll. You'll fucking get there. You know, it's. I don't. I don't want to be too reductive and say, oh, you're 22, whatever, but just because I know the feelings you're having in your brain right now. I just. I couldn't. It like, I'm. It took five years, maybe more. I don't know if I'll revert back to, oh, I'm doing the wrong thing. I only. I've only felt peaceful for. I've only felt peace for the last month of my life. Everything else has been, yeah, yeah, adhd, crazy brain scramble. But yeah. But yeah. Do you. I think you'll get. You'll get there, but you gotta. I think you will, but you got. You gotta put yourself out there. And. And I don't know if you get to that point with medication or if you get to that point by just Nike. Just do it. But yeah, you'll get there. Like, when you're 30 and you're, and you've traveled all these places and you've done these and you're not here, it's also, I think that's a young man's game.

Chunk (82:56)

That's true.

Host (82:56)

Yeah.

Chunk (82:57)

Kind of part of it, too, is like, I, I, all these years that, like, I don't know, I don't necessarily think there's, like, a right time to be doing all those things. And now, like, because I did all those things, I have, like, more of an ability, like, financially to travel. But, like, it's like, I almost feel like I, like, focused on, like, the, the, like, work, like, boring part first, then that I should. That was, like, a mistake.

Host (83:22)

But no, that wasn't a mistake at all. That was not a mistake at all. Because here's the thing going to, like, all this shit that we're talking about, like, it costs money to do, and there's, I, there's a nice balance to strike between, like, putting your head down and getting your, your bag and trying to set up a nice financial foundation for yourself, and then, like, you know, having, having fun. But it's so much easier to have fun and do the things that you want to do when, when you're not, you know, stressed out about, about, about money.

Chunk (84:02)

That's very true.

Host (84:03)

It is. It is important. Yeah. And also, you know, get this. When, when you and your girlfriend are married and 30 and whatever, and, and you, because you got your money up and you put it in the fucking stupid index fund or whatever, and, you know, now you're 30, you have some money now you can really fucking do whatever the hell you want. So I don't think you made any mistakes. I think you did.

Chunk (84:26)

Yeah.

Host (84:27)

Sounds like you did things really well.

Chunk (84:29)

Yeah. It reminds me of the caller the other week. I don't know when, when it was for you, but it was only a couple days for me in podcast world, but it was the one that worked at his father's painting company, and you were telling him just to, like, work there. And, like, I resonated a lot with that because it was like, that was like what I did, you know, and I was like, that is the right advice.

Host (84:51)

Wait, that was the right advice. I'm actually so, you know, it's, I, you know, what's so funny is I, I, I know I don't know you, but we have so much of what you're talking about. I really resonate with like the. The Brett, your brain. And it's so. It's so funny because I actually got a lot of flack in the comments section. Really, whatever what I said to that guy. And you know, here's the. Here's. And I actually, I was thinking about it a lot and I talk. In my real life, I talked to my, like, friends, family about that call and about that I was getting flack for it because I, like. And I was trying to understand it. Maybe that specific caller could have done, like, some things different. Like, could have, I don't know, found a better paying job somewhere else or gone to trade school or something. Here's what. Yeah, but what. What upset me about the flack I got in the comments was not that. People, I'm so. I don't. Please. If you disagree with things that I say in this podcast, dear. I would be insane if I wanted nobody to ever disagree with me. But I wanted. I wanted, like, fee. I wanted feedback. I wanted, like, alternative. Mm things.

Chunk (86:15)

I think you were right. Well, people.

Host (86:17)

People in the comments were like, geck, that's stupid and you're being toxic. And. And when I read that, I'm like, yeah, when I read that, I'm like, you know what? I will fully, fully, fully accept that I was. That I was being whatever, but I want it. But I'm. What do you. What do you think? I hate when people say. I hate when they're like, you're wrong, but they don't come up with an alternative.

Chunk (86:43)

Like a reason.

Host (86:44)

Yeah, not a reason, but like, Like, Lyle, what you said to this guy was wrong. And here's what I think this guy should do. If I saw a comment where someone was like, lyle, you're a fat idiot. And I. And I disagree with you, and I think what you said to that kid was harmful. Here's what I think instead, he should do. I would read that and then be like, oh, you know what? You're right. I actually am a fat idiot. And this commenter is correct. I like that idea. But when it's just, hey, you're a fat idiot and you're wrong, I'm like, come on, give me. Like, I just. I was desperate because I wanted. I wanted to hear in the comments, like, what other people thought that that kid should do. So that way I could read it and be like, okay, you know what? These people are right.

Chunk (87:27)

Yeah, definitely.

Host (87:29)

But I, you know, don't get me wrong.

Chunk (87:32)

He should definitely have asked his dad for a raise. I was like, I, like, audibly gasped when I Heard, but it was like, it at the same time, like, that mindset of what you were saying, like, that is. I was thinking about it of like, you can just do that. Like, you can just work that much and still have all the other things that you want. And it's like that kind of resonated with me because it's like I have. I don't even have to go out and paint cars every day. Like, I'm. I have all this time at home to be like, doing things. I just like having, you know, actually done them yet. And obviously, like, you know, we talked about how I can fix that, but it's. It's like, I definitely think that. That, that people like, get really fixated on like, the ideal or like, one track of life where, like, a lot of people don't have that situation, like, where they have a company where they can actually work at and like, learn stuff because, like, that. That will benefit him for many years to come. Like, he's not just like, working at like, CVS or something. Nothing wrong with that. But it's like, there's like, less upward mobility at like a CVS versus, like, your dad's company, you know?

Host (88:46)

Yeah, I was. I was talking to my friends about that call and they were like. And a lot of them were like, he should probably like, see if he can find a job that's more than minimum wage or like, maybe try going to a trade school or like, you know, the government has certain programs where they're like, pay for you to block. There were. And I was like, my friends about it, and then I was like. And maybe you're right. Maybe I shouldn't have told them to work for minimum wage. But now the comments, I was like. I was like, well, give me. You know, I don't. I'm totally happy. No, I was like. I was like, I'm happy to be wrong, but I want alternative. Yeah, it's like. Do you know the comedian Mark Normand?

Chunk (89:28)

Yeah. Yeah.

Host (89:30)

First of all, I shouldn't be reading Internet comments in the first place, but I listened to Mark. I listen to Mark Norman. This is how I feel about, like, Internet comments. When I read them about myself. Like, Mark Norman was talking on like, some podcast once, and he was like, sometimes I read a comment on my stand up and it's like, yeah, you know, you suck and you're not funny. And I'm like, ah, whatever. And then sometimes they read a comment that's like, this guy needs to work on my. On his delivery. And I'm like, Maybe I need to work on my delivery. You know what I mean? Like something.

Chunk (90:00)

Yeah, exactly. You know, and anyway, do you ever, like, do you ever like, read comments or like, get off a podcast like this or not podcast or the Twitch stream and like go and like, have a bunch of motivation to do stuff? Or is it just like you turn it off and it's like, back to normal?

Host (90:17)

Lately. Well, after. Well, today I got to do shit, but lately I've actually. I deleted Spotify off of my phone so that I don't like, check comments. I deleted Spotify, YouTube, Instagram. I delete. I like, I don't. I. I deleted like Spotify, YouTube, Instagram, tick tock, email, like everything off my phone. Because it's just. There's just. No, it's just this.

Chunk (90:46)

Yeah, you just go to her. I would too, if there was always people. Like, I have a little photography Instagram, and anytime I post something, I'm like addicted to going back and looking if I got like one more like than I did last time, you know, So I can't even imagine like at a bigger scale.

Host (91:04)

Do you know who Dr. K is?

Chunk (91:07)

Yeah, yeah, the healthy gamer guy, right?

Host (91:10)

Yeah, he's. Dude, he's so awesome. I was watching. Yeah, I was. I was watching a video of his and he was talking about, like, you know, if you make anything on the Internet, you get kind of like addicted. You get addicted to the. There's. There's the whole like. There's like a mental roller coaster of like numbers going up and down and up and down. Yeah. And he's. And he was like, the worst thing that you could do is to just be constantly looking with. No, absolutely. Like, I'm all like. And I've not. I was doing that and I was like, oh, I'm just, I'm just stuck in this weird, like, dopamine. There's nothing productive.

Chunk (91:51)

Yeah.

Host (91:51)

Underneath what I'm actually doing. And he's. And Dr. Was like, set up like one time a week to look at the numbers and go in there with like an analytical mind. Because it's one. Like, analytics are like, analytics are like important in whatever it is you do. Yeah, but absolutely. If you're. If you're just going into them to like ride your emotional roller coaster. That's fucking stupid. Because there's nothing you can.

Chunk (92:19)

Yeah.

Host (92:19)

But if there's nothing you can do in the moment. But if you're going into them with a pure analytical mindset and go, okay, this is what worked, this is what didn't. And I Will learn better for next time then. That's nice. But anything other than that, you're just riding a stupid roller coaster meant to make.

Chunk (92:34)

Yeah, you're just going for the dopamine.

Host (92:36)

Exactly.

Chunk (92:36)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Host (92:39)

What's your name again?

Chunk (92:41)

Chunk.

Host (92:42)

Chunk. Chunk. I'm all. I'm only saying this because I have adhd and I understand, and I feel like I have a nice understanding of the way that your brain has been working. From what you're telling me, you might. You might have adhd, dude, go. Don't. Don't let me tell you. By the way. Don't let me tell you that. Don't let me tell you that.

Jack Shepherd (93:06)

I'm.

Host (93:07)

Yeah, I'm telling you. I'm telling you that you're crossing the.

Chunk (93:09)

Lines of not a real therapist.

Host (93:11)

No, I'm not even. I'm not even. No, I'm not. I'm not crossing the lines of it. I'm telling you this just as a homie. Okay? You might.

Chunk (93:18)

No, I know, I know. I'm joking. I. I honestly, it's kind of funny because I think I've known that in my mind for a while. Just like, I've been picking up on, like, things I do. Like, just like my non stop, like, need to, like, fidget. Like, literally right now I'm walking. I paced across my apartment 20 times, and, like, I have a rubber band in my hand. Like, I can't, like, you know, I have to have something at my hands at all times or something like that. And just like, not only that, but like a million other little things that I've noticed. So like, for you. For me to come on here and you clock it, like, pretty quickly, I feel like that, you know, that's.

Host (93:56)

That's real, you know, Bro, I was walking around and I had. I have sunglasses and I'm just like holding one of the sunglass rims and I'm twirling it. I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? Or like, anytime I have a cup, anytime I have a cup, yeah, I must just, like a plastic cup, I must destroy the cup. I don't know why. These are things. These are things I've been doing my whole. These are things I've been doing my whole life that I never, ever even stopped to think about that I was doing exactly like. Yeah, bro, you have it. You know what? I don't. You know what? I professionally diagnose. You know what? Fuck every. I professionally diagnose you with adhd and if you take, if you overdose on Vyvanse and die. I will take medical responsibility for that. You can sue me if that happens.

Chunk (94:48)

Reassuring. Okay. My family. My family will be in touch after I take two whole bottles of.

Host (94:56)

I shouldn't. I shouldn't say any of these things to you, but I just, like. I just so. I just know exactly what the thing is. So. I mean, yeah, bro, I talk. You go talk to a real therapist.

Chunk (95:09)

But, yeah, I will. I will. I'm gonna. I'll look at it right after this. But, yeah, I've been thinking about that for a while, and it's also, like. I think it's definitely a big connection as to why, like, I can't, like, get myself to do anything other than, like, the thing that, you know, quiets my brain down for a little while, you know, And. Yeah. But also, like, on another note, like, I've had this weird feeling. I just want. I don't know if you want to. If you don't mind if I bring something else up or not.

Host (95:42)

Sure, yeah, go ahead.

Chunk (95:45)

I've. I moved to the city here in Pennsylvania, and it's like, kind of like always was my, like, dream to do it, you know, like, not this particular city. I mean, it's east, and I don't know why. I don't need to. It's not a big. Well, it's a kind of big city. But it's like, always was my dream, like, live in, like, a city and be able to walk and, like, do all this stuff. And it's like, I don't. I. I do it sometimes. It's just, like, I feel, like, so out of place. I feel like that's going to be, like, the same way. I feel like when I'm traveling, too, like, I feel like I'm, like a tourist still, even though I've lived here for, like, six months now. Do you ever get that feeling, like, when you're traveling or, like, doing. Living somewhere or something like that?

Jack Shepherd (96:28)

Yeah.

Host (96:28)

I mean, is that not the point, though?

Chunk (96:31)

That's true. I. I don't know. Yeah, I. I think I just have this, like, unrealistic expectation that I'm gonna, like, be a local immediately or something like that. But. Yeah, I mean, that's a good. That's a good way of framing it.

Host (96:45)

Well, I mean, I. I'll say this, like, if you can, there's a. I mean, if you want to have a more, I guess, authentic experience, like, there's a billion ways to do it. I mean, instead of, like. Yeah, like, instead of, like, getting a hotel or something, you can go on couchsurfing calm. Or you could stay at, like, a hostel or you could, like, like, there's a lot. Like, there's, there's, there's cooler ways to do it than, like, just getting a. Getting a hotel.

Chunk (97:17)

Yeah. Getting a hotel. Yeah.

Host (97:19)

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Chunk (97:22)

Okay. Yeah, I'll look at that whenever I, Whenever I get my trip planned. Yep.

Host (97:31)

I've genuinely, really enjoyed having this conversation with you.

Chunk (97:35)

Thank you. I've been listening for, like, I think, like, four or five years now, basically since you've started.

Host (97:41)

Kick Ass.

Chunk (97:42)

I love it. I love this podcast.

Host (97:43)

Kick Ass. Thank you, man. Hmm. Mm. Dude, let me know what you're fucking. Dude, go see a real fucking thing and then let me know if. Yeah, what they say. I'm curious.

Chunk (97:55)

Oh, I'll Instagram DM you.

Host (97:57)

Okay, cool. Whenever I, Whenever I go, Chunk, is there anything else. Is there anything else you want to say to the people, the computer, before we go?

Chunk (98:06)

Go, Eagles. I. I really always thought about what I would say, and that's only the only thing that ever came to my mind, so. Go, Eagle.

Host (98:16)

Beautiful. See you later, Chunk.

Chunk (98:19)

See ya. Bye.

Host (98:23)

That was cool. I liked that conversation a lot because Dan. Yeah. I don't know, sometimes, like, I mean, yeah, I'm like, it is. Dude. It is so funny because that guy is 22. And I, I, I didn't clock that, that it wasn't normal to just destroy a cup that you have in your hand or, like, chew on pens and destroy them or twirl with, like, I'm always fidgeting, and it was such a part of my life that I.

Jack Shepherd (98:59)

Didn'T.

Host (98:59)

Even know it wasn't normal. That's a, That's a trap. I think you can kind of get in with this kind of shit. And I'm just realizing this, like, I only, I only came to these realizations, like, again, like, a month ago. I'm 27. This guy's 22. So, like, I think that that'd be. That's kind of a nice gift to, like, because you're the only one. Like, like, like you're the only person with you a hundred percent of the time. So you don't have. And unless if, like, your friend, like, you don't have that much data to know if your thoughts and behaviors are quote, unquote, normal. And then every once in a while you're like, oh, this thing that was so intuitive to me is not what. Everyone doesn't do that. You know, it's helpful information to have.

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Host (103:08)

Hi. Hello. Hi. What's your name?

Junebug (103:10)

Junebug.

Host (103:11)

Junebug. Junebug. This is. This is not going to interest you or anyone listening to this, but there is a super smash brothers melee player named Junebug who is revitalizing the game right now because he's proving that Donkey Kong can actually be used as a competitively viable character to win tournaments. Did you know that?

Junebug (103:35)

No. That kind of sounded like an ad.

Host (103:39)

That sounded like an ad.

Junebug (103:41)

It did.

Host (103:42)

You know what? Good. I hope, I hope. I. You know what? It was an ad. I hope that whoever listens to the ad I just did is compelled to go watch June Bug play donkey Kong on YouTube. Anyway, what's up, June Bug? How's life?

Junebug (104:04)

There's a lot going on, but it's good. Kind of. No, I just kind of wanted to talk about how my. My dad just got married to my stepmom and we were all on the beach and we went to a bar and my new step uncle flirted with me really bad. He said that he wanted me. So, yeah, I got to figure out how to tell my husband and my stepmom.

Host (104:32)

Your step. Wait, step uncle? Hold on.

Junebug (104:36)

That's your new step uncle? My new stepmom's younger brother.

Host (104:41)

Okay, so your new stepmom's younger brother, he was flirting with you?

Junebug (104:46)

Yeah, we were all at the bar and he was getting increasingly touchy and I had another family member, like, get me out of it. But that was whenever all the other. All the other family left because my dad and my stepmom went to go on their honeymoon and he was like, touching on my waist, grabbing me, and I had to just remove myself from the situation. But we were all driving together and on the drive home, I asked if anyone wanted Taco Bell and he said that he wanted me. And I'm like, oh, okay. Who is not there?

Host (105:24)

Did you. Was this, this guy's like first time meeting you?

Junebug (105:29)

No, I've known him for about six years and then he's married. He, he knows that I'm married.

Host (105:35)

Wait, so you've known this dude for six years and then all of a sudden he just starts flirting with you?

Junebug (105:42)

Yeah, well, he was supposed to get married this year and I think my dad's wedding set him off. And my husband's deployed, so I think it was just a mix of like alcohol feelings and then, oh, her husband's not here. Let me get my move in. But I need to figure out a way. Well, I'm going to tell my stepmom obviously, but I got to figure out a way to tell my husband because he's deployed, but I don't want him depending on freak out. I thought I talked to my mother in law already. She knows all about this. But I'm like, I don't really know how to tell him without freaking out because where he's at, shit's come up kind of popping off and I don't want to give him.

Host (106:20)

Why? What? Well, wait, I was. That's a stupid question. I guess I was gonna ask why would your husband freak out? But that's a stupid question. Why, why are. I'm. I'm trying to understand more about why you're hesitant about telling your husband.

Junebug (106:35)

Well, so my husband was cheated on before, on his last deployment before I met him. And I talked to my mother in law about it and she's like, well, you should probably, you know, you should tell him, but you should wait until after he's back home. But he, he's very protective of our relationship with. Due to his prior being. Being cheat on. Prior.

Host (107:07)

Okay, so when you say you're worried he'll freak out, like what, what does that mean?

Junebug (107:14)

But I don't want family situations to be fucking weird, you know, because we're.

Host (107:21)

We'Re a little, we're a little past that. We're a little past the family situations being weird. We're, we're, we're there.

Junebug (107:31)

Yeah, that's very true. It's just I know him. If I, I don't want, you know, the next Thanksgiving or Christmas or, you know, we always, you know, go to my stepmom's house, her family's house. So my, I guess my new step grandparents for the, what's the football tournament? I don't know nothing about football. It's in Super Bowl. Super Bowl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't want to go there and just have this tension. And I know it's not my fault. I shouldn't be worried, but it's like, I know. I know my husband would try to fight a. I know he would. So I'm like, I want to avoid that, but I think I am past that. I think we are past that. I don't know. I do have a therapy appointment coming up this Tuesday, so maybe I should talk to my actual therapist about that and not.

Host (108:34)

Well, sure, yeah, of course.

Junebug (108:38)

I don't know. That's just fucking weird because. I don't know, maybe this is less about, like, asking for advice, but, like, those feelings don't just come out of nowhere, do they? Like wanting to.

Host (108:52)

Feelings? The feelings that you're step uncle. I don't know what's going on. I don't know why. I don't know why. Your step uncle. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't know why. Your step uncle was.

Junebug (109:05)

Was weird.

Host (109:06)

Yeah, it is. It is weird. I. I'm. I guess. Yeah. The part of this that I'm curious about is again, like the thing. The thing where you're worried about your husband, like, freaking out. Cuz did anyone. I guess what I'm curious is like, did any. You told your mother in law, right? Not mother. Wait, mother in law.

Junebug (109:26)

Yeah.

Host (109:27)

Wait, not your stepmom.

Junebug (109:29)

Mother.

Host (109:29)

Oh, you said your husband.

Junebug (109:30)

No, I haven't told her.

Host (109:32)

You haven't told your stepmom because she's.

Junebug (109:35)

On her honeymoon and I don't want to ruin it, but I am going.

Host (109:38)

To tell her, okay. Because I Some. Well, because Friday, because here's the thing, right? Is if we're. Is if we're gonna keep doing Super Bowls together and we're gonna keep doing Thanksgivings together, you know, someone's. Someone's gotta tell the step uncle. Like, yo, you gotta not do that.

Junebug (110:00)

Yeah. So I don't know. I. I only see him a handful of times a year, so, like, I could definitely avoid him. It. He. I've also. So my husband and I are married. We eloped before his deployment, and later this summer we're actually planning a wedding party. And he's already invited.

Host (110:23)

He's invited?

Junebug (110:25)

Well, yeah. Like, they're all my family. Like, you know, I love my stepmother.

Host (110:30)

Sure.

Junebug (110:31)

You know, and I'm like, fuck, should I. Should I like, like talk to him and be like, sorry, you're not invited anymore, but the rest of your family.

Host (110:39)

Well, here's the question. Here's the question. Here's the question. Here's the question. And this is. Is. I mean, after this all went down, these deal. Do you want him there? If you don't want him there, then I mean. Yeah, you don't want him there.

Junebug (110:54)

No, but here. So they're all close. And the thing is. So my stepmom, she's. She has her brother, which is a twin, and then she has a younger set of another set of brothers that are also twin brothers. And it'll be weird if I invite one twin but not the other because I'm friends with the twin. I don't know, it's like some sort of, like, twin logic. They don't go anywhere without each other.

Host (111:18)

Yeah, but. Yeah, yeah, but like, I mean, look, this guy clearly, you know, overstepped his boundaries, right? And if you want. And if you don't, and if because of that, you don't want him at your fucking wedding, you know, that's. That's. That's an L. He's got a hold. You know, it's not like. And also, look, is he really gonna. See? That's it. That's just. That's just an L. You gotta hold. You got to be like, hey, man, look, I. You were. That was kind of weird. So. I'm not gonna invite you to the wedding. What's he gonna do, be mad about that?

Junebug (111:52)

I hope he does. He deserves it, to be honest.

Host (111:58)

Yeah, I get. Well, I understand from you. I understand also. Yeah, go ahead.

Junebug (112:03)

That also opens a whole can of worms because I want to keep this on the down low. I'd rather just, you know, tell my husband, tell my stepmother, you know, have, you know, have my stepmother have a talk with my new uncle. Oh, my God. And you don't want it to be a whole download.

Host (112:21)

Yeah.

Junebug (112:22)

Yes. But you're not interested in.

Host (112:26)

Sorry, go ahead.

Junebug (112:27)

Yeah. If I don't invite him to my wedding, which he's already invited, I already sent out invitation. Expectations be kind of weird. I don't know. That'll just invite attention and drama. And.

Host (112:42)

You'Re balancing. I see. Okay, no, no. I 100% see what you're saying. You're balancing, like, I don't want to have this guy at my wedding versus I want the path of least resistance. You don't want it. You're not interested in, like, stirring up the family dynamics. You don't want to deal with the drama of the fucking whole thing. You don't want to stir the pot. You just want to have your wedding and not think about any crap. And you just, you want, you're, you're interested in taking the path of least resistance.

Junebug (113:13)

Oh, of course, of course.

Host (113:15)

That's understandable. Yeah, that's understand, that's totally understand. It's a totally. You know, listen, here's the thing. If you told me that you wanted to wage war on this guy and, or, or if you told me you wanted to take the path of leaks, resistance. Both, both valid ways of going about your life. So I get what you mean.

Junebug (113:41)

I just, this is just a really tricky situation because I also have to take my dad's new marriage into account because what if my dad, you know, he's not this type of person, but what if he gets super fucking pissed off at him and you know, the family dynamic in between, you know, his new wife and his brother in law is strained. It's just. I just wish this never fucking happened. It's just so.

Host (114:11)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's a, it's a, it's a shitty position for you to be in and now you, you have to deal with it. You have to figure out how to deal with it and you just don't even want to have ever even have to deal with it in the first place, which sucks. Hmm. I don't know. I guess, I guess I get, I get wanting to take the path of least resistance, but at some point someone's gotta sit, sit the guy down and be like, yo, you can't do that.

Junebug (114:45)

Because my thing is like, what if, you know, I wasn't family? You know, he was really touchy and up front, you know, if I wasn't family. Is this a problem that's happened before with another woman and, you know, we just didn't know it. I don't want a whole family intervention, but I just really appreciate my stepmom, you know, she's the older sister, you know, putting on her big sister voice and, you know, laying down the law.

Host (115:12)

So here's what I guess. Sorry, go ahead. If you have more to say, go ahead. Well, I guess what my thoughts about this are like, because you're in a situation where you're like, I just wish I was never in this situation. I don't want to deal with any of this crap. Like, I don't like. And, and, and when you're in a situation like that, the path of least resistance is the. Is, is very attractive path. So look, I'll say, here's the thing. I'll say this. Whatever, here's what I would say. Whatever way of moving forward in this situation brings you personally, the most amount of peace.

Junebug (116:01)

Mm.

Host (116:03)

And. And I don't know which way that is, because I'm not you, and this is however you want to run your life. But I would say whatever way of running this situation brings you personally, the most amount of peace, if that's the one you want to take. Again, I don't know which. What that is, because your decision, it's your thing to think about, but I think. I think it's a valid decision to make. It's a. Val. It's a valid thing to make. Whatever decision gives you the most peace, personally, whatever decision that is. That's. That's. That's kind of what I think.

Junebug (116:36)

Yeah. It's just I'm. I'm kind of stuck in limbo now. That's why I asked, because this will all change as soon as, you know, my stepmom gets back from, you know, her honeymoon and they actually have a conversation with her about it. It's just. I'm just stuck in limbo right now. I know there's an end in sight. It just sucks waiting.

Host (116:58)

How long is your husband deployed for?

Junebug (117:02)

He's deployed for nine months, and we're in the home stretch right now. So he's coming home soon.

Host (117:08)

Mm.

Junebug (117:10)

It's just he. I can't disclose exactly where he is, but he's summer very hot, and it's the political there is not good. So it's also, like, he's dealing with a lot of stress there, and it's like, fuck, I don't want another thing on his plate.

Host (117:32)

Mm.

Jack Shepherd (117:33)

Mm.

Host (117:37)

Can I say, like, here's, like, at the very. I'm sorry that this. This is the sucks that this is stressing all of you. Uae. Like, you shouldn't be the one to be bearing the brunt of all the stress of the situation. You know what I mean? Like, if you want. Like, again, I just. You. If you want to, like. How do I say this? Like, you. Just because you're sitting here, like, oh, I. I'm in this situation, and I don't want to stir the family drama. I don't want my husband to get upset. Like, I. I. If. If you. I. This might be, like, I really. I hope this doesn't sound, like, reductive, but, like, like, you, like, you're allowed to shed the stress, you know, if you. If you. I really hope. I swear, I really hope this doesn't sound reductive, but, like, if you. You're allowed to, like, decide that you're not gonna let this stress you out. And just be. And just like live your life if that's what you want to do, you know? Is that, does that make sense?

Junebug (118:53)

Do you mean I was like, don't tell anyone or just like, no, no, that's.

Host (118:58)

That's not, that's not.

Junebug (119:04)

Is this like a more live and let go type deal? Like, oh, what happened? It sucks, but I got to move on with my life. It's in the past.

Host (119:14)

Not necessarily, no. But again, for like, okay, like, it's just what I said earlier. Like, I think, I think you shouldn't be the one to like, deal with the stress of the situation and whatever decision. Because, look, I mean, for some people, it's like, if you were to be. If you were like, no, I want to like, confront my, My, My stack, my step uncle about this. I want to tell the family. I want to deal with others and like, that's what's good. And like, doing that is what's gonna let me sleep at night. You know, that's what's gonna be the less, the least stressful thing for me. Right? So, like, that could be for you, the way of handling the situation that is that again, helps you sleep the best and is the least. Makes you less stressed in the long run. Right? I don't. And I don't know you and I don't know your brain and I don't know how you think about shit, but, like, think about, like, I would just throw all my options on the table and go, which in the long. What in the long term helps me, gives me the less amount of stress in the long term. Or you could be like. Or if you wanted to, you could be like, look, I just. I'm just gonna fucking like, minimize my interactions with this fucking guy over the years and I'm gonna not think about it and I'm gonna. My husband's gonna come back and we're gonna live our lives together and I'm just gonna whatever, not make this whole thing. And maybe that's what helps you sleep at night more, you know, But I'm just saying that's the lens. That is the lens through which I would look at all of your options. I'm not telling you I can't. I'm not gonna. I'm not going to tell you to live and let live because I'm not, I'm not, you know, I'm. I'm not. I don't. That I'm not gonna give you advice on what exactly you should do. But I will say that as you're looking as you're kind of thinking about, oh, I could maybe I'll do it like that. The lens through which I would look at all those options is, well, what's gonna give me the most peace? I would say.

Junebug (121:21)

Okay. Okay.

Host (121:23)

Does that make sense?

Junebug (121:24)

Well, yeah, yeah. This is, it's already. I've already. I. I'm going to therapy on Tuesday. This is something I'm definitely unpacking with my therapist, so we'll see what the best decision is. I don't know.

Jack Shepherd (121:45)

My.

Junebug (121:46)

My mother in law, my husband mother kind of just wants to sweep it under the rug and not do anything, but I'm like, oh, I don't really know. And I have.

Host (121:58)

Right, right, right.

Junebug (122:00)

There's just a lot of different avenues.

Host (122:03)

Okay, so if your mother in law says that, okay, and then it's like, how does that make you feel? Does that make you be like, okay? Like, when your mother in law says that, do you, do you feel okay? Great. Whoo. I don't want to deal with any of this crap. Or do you feel like that doesn't sit right with me? You know, I don't, I don't know the answer to that. But, like, that's an important, that's an important feeling to like, recognize, you know, like, which, what, what, what option is gonna make you go, whoo, okay, cool. You know?

Junebug (122:36)

Mmm. No, I felt guilt because my thing is, even though it might, you know, pain my husband to hear it, I believe in, like a completely honest relationship with open communication. So I don't know. I don't know. I'm. I'm kind of on the. I don't want to stir the family.

Host (123:01)

Pot, but, but also, but also, like with.

Junebug (123:03)

Let me tell someone.

Host (123:04)

Well, can I tell. Can I say this too? Also? Like, again, I'm. Whatever. Whatever it is that you decide to do, moving for when you tell your husband. I know that you're saying that like your husband is like a hothead guy, but like, your husband, when he comes back and you decide whether, whether, you know, like, let's say, let's say you tell him about it, right? And he goes, let's say, let's say you tell him about it and you're like, I'm fucking pissed off at the. This guy. Fuck it. And then your husband's like, yeah, fuck this guy. And your husband, like, whatever. But let's say you tell him about it. And then, and then you're like, hey, this happens. But I just, I. It would make me feel the most peaceful to not make it a big Deal. Like what? Whatever. Whatever way that you want to go about it, your husband should be supportive of you. So if you go and you say, I don't want to make a big deal out of it, your husband should be like, okay, I respect that. I respect your decision to go about whatever the fuck. Got to do this. I mean, he's gonna have his own opinions about shit, of course, and it's up to you whether or not you want to take him. But like, your husband, whatever, again, whatever you decide is the thing that makes the way about going about the situation that makes you feel the most peaceful. I think your husband should be supportive of you in when. Whatever that decision is, I would say that's. I think that's a healthy relationship. But I also. I don't. I could be wrong. Maybe, Maybe. Maybe it's healthier for him to challenge. I don't know. I'm. I'm a gecko.

Junebug (124:52)

No, he. He is a hothead. But his. His initial reaction would be anger. Not necessarily. No, not at me, but like, anger in general. But I know, I know him. He needs like an hour or two to cool off and he'll be okay. He respects my decisions.

Host (125:14)

Okay.

Junebug (125:15)

He knows. He knows that I'm the boss of the house, so he listens to me. I'm the big dog.

Host (125:21)

Very nice.

Junebug (125:22)

Very nice.

Host (125:24)

How is. How is life going otherwise?

Junebug (125:28)

It's going really well. I live in the south, so it's starting to get super fucking hot. But I started. I started running last summer, and I finally hit my goal of running a sub 35k. So that's like, that was my big goal. And my dog actually runs with me. I have a black lab, she's about a year old, and she's about 65 to 70 pounds. And we just run. We just run around the neighborhood and run around town, and it's so fun. It's so fun.

Host (126:06)

That's really nice.

Junebug (126:06)

But no, that I. I do struggle with a lot of mental health issues, you know, particularly depression and anxiety. And this is one thing that I discussed, you know, with my family, with my therapist. Like, exercise gives you endorphins. You know, exercise, be happy, basically. Exercise makes you happy. So it's definitely working. And it's made the time go by fast. And then I'm also really excited for our wedding because so only the parents know. Only the parents and our family know that we eloped. So this is going to be like a welcome home party, and then, surprise, it's a wedding. We're getting married. Or we're already married, so I'm really, really excited for that.

Host (126:55)

Very nice. Very nice.

Junebug (126:58)

And then.

Host (127:00)

Yeah, no, go ahead. No, go ahead.

Junebug (127:03)

Oh, no, I'm just debating on what dress I want to buy because. Have you seen Star Wars?

Host (127:09)

Yeah, I. Well, why? Like, I haven't seen the new ones. Are you a big Star wars person?

Junebug (127:16)

Fuck the new ones. No prequel series.

Host (127:18)

Cool. Wait, I thought everyone. I thought everyone hates the prequel series. No.

Junebug (127:24)

Oh, I love the prequel series. I don't like the sequels.

Host (127:26)

Oh, okay. All right, go ahead.

Junebug (127:28)

No, no, but I. I wanna. I wanna commission someone to make me Padme's Lake dress in episode two whenever they were on Naboo.

Host (127:42)

I. I 30% know what you're talking about.

Junebug (127:49)

It's like this yellow, pink, and purple lilac color ombre. It's like the big flowy dress that she has. Maybe, maybe not, but I don't know. We're going for a tropical theme because my husband's. His family's from the Caribbean and we're trying to do something like, with that theme, make it feel like a vacation whenever he comes back home. But I'm like, I feel like I want to stick out like a sore throat, sore thumb. But the thing is, his family's all Star wars nerds, so I think it'll be okay. I don't know.

Host (128:29)

You like, you like Star wars, right?

Junebug (128:32)

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Host (128:34)

It's your wedding. Fucking be. Yeah, Be. Dress up as Super Mario. Who cares?

Junebug (128:41)

No, that'll be. That'll be dope as fuck. That'll be dope.

Host (128:46)

What's your name again?

Junebug (128:48)

Junebug.

Host (128:49)

June Bug. Oh, yeah, like the Super Smash Brothers Melee player.

Junebug (128:53)

Or maybe. Maybe I'll dress up like them. Who do they. I don't know anything about Super Smash Bros, but who do they. Who do they name? Who they play?

Host (129:00)

They play Donkey Kong.

Junebug (129:02)

Oh, you know what? I'll dress up as Donkey Kong for my wedding.

Host (129:05)

That would be cool, man. That'd be cool. And then your husband can dress up like Diddy Kong. And then you can be like, yeah, I'm the fucking boss of the house, dude. I'm the big Kong.

Junebug (129:15)

I'm also taller than him. He's five one. I'm five four.

Host (129:19)

Ooh, I like that it works. I like it. I like it. I like a good. I like a good woman taller than the man relationship. Every time I'm. Every time I'm on the. Like when I'm, like, walking through this down the street and I see a couple and the ladies taller than the guy like, pump my fist a little bit. I'm like, that's awesome.

Junebug (129:40)

Yeah. Fucking short kings unite.

Host (129:42)

Rock and roll. Rock and roll. June bug, is there anything else you want to say to the people that computer before we go?

Junebug (129:51)

Yeah, if you're a short guy, please pursue taller women. We like it. We do like it.

Host (129:59)

They exist, fellas. They exist.

Junebug (130:03)

They do. I'm married to one.

Host (130:05)

Beautiful.

Junebug (130:06)

I'm married.

Host (130:07)

Beautiful. Take care, Junebug. I'll see you around the universe. Congratulations on a lovely life.

Junebug (130:15)

Thank you.

Host (130:16)

See you later.

Junebug (130:18)

Bye. Bye.

Host (130:20)

There we go. For every see. Listen, if you're lit, if you're 5 1, if you're a 51 guy and you think you're doomed, there, there, there could be hope. That's. That's actually what the first Star wars is about. That's why they call it a new hope. It's about a 5:1 guy who gets married to a 5:4 lady.

Ryan Seacrest (131:02)

Nearly 90% of kids who vape save flavors or why they do it.

Campaign Representative (131:05)

A lot of the flavors that I've heard are like peach, mango, watermelon. It makes it seem like more childlike and innocent. Oh, if I try this once, it won't be that much of a problem. But then eventually it becomes a problem.

Ryan Seacrest (131:17)

It's time to restrict the sale of flavored tobacco products in Oregon and protect our kids from nicotine addiction. Urge lawmakers to Pass Senate Bill 702A. Take action at flavorshookoregonkids.org paid for by the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund.

Career Transition Specialist (131:33)

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Gemma Spaeg (132:02)

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Ryan Seacrest (132:41)

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway now through June 17th. Shop in store or online for your favorite personal care Items and save $5 when you spend $15 or more. Stock up on items like Dove Body Wash Degree Motion Sense Deodorant, Tresemme Hairspray, Dove Shampoo, Dove Bar Soap, Dove Men's Body and face Wash and Dollar Shave Club blades, and save $5 when you spend $15 or more. Hurry in before these deals are gone. Offer ends June 17th. Promotions may vary. Restrictions apply. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

Host (133:13)

This is an iHeart podcast.