“I’M AN ANARCHIST REBEL”

Summary

Therapy Gecko Podcast Episode: "I’M AN ANARCHIST REBEL"

Release Date: July 6, 2025
Host: Lyle (Therapy Gecko)
Guest: Judah
Location: Washington Square Park, New York City

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Therapy Gecko, host Lyle embarks on his unique journey outside Washington Square Park, NYC, donning his gecko costume to explore deep and often unconventional conversations with park-goers. The episode titled “I’M AN ANARCHIST REBEL” delves into themes of anarchy, genuine human connection, personal growth, and the subjective nature of life's peak moments.

---

Meeting Judah: The Kindred Spirit

[03:23] Lyle:
Lyle introduces Judah, a fellow conversationalist who has been engaging with people in the park for six years. Judah operates a simple setup with a table and two chairs, aiming to foster unguarded and non-judgmental dialogues.

Notable Quote:
[05:27] Judah: “People will be vulnerable, people will open up, and it's a beautiful thing when they do.”

---

The Dynamics of Recording Conversations

Judah shares his transition from jotting down insights in journals to recording conversations. He emphasizes the value of preserving meaningful interactions, stating:

Notable Quote:
[07:05] Judah: “I want to recollect on and refer back for my own reference.”

Lyle and Judah discuss the impact of having a hidden recorder on conversations, pondering whether the presence of recording equipment alters the authenticity of interactions.

---

Life’s Peaks and Personal Anecdotes

The conversation shifts to the concept of peaking in life. Judah recounts a profound experience under the influence of psychedelics:

Notable Quote:
[10:22] Judah: “We were just playing on the lake, and at one point, we paused to watch geese in a V formation, feeling like we were in a painting. It was pure and wholesome.”

This story illustrates the subjective nature of peak experiences and how personal perception shapes our understanding of life's high points.

---

Optimism vs. Pessimism and the Golden Mean

Lyle introduces the idea of having two wolves within—one representing optimism and the other pessimism. Judah aligns this with Aristotle’s Golden Mean, advocating for a balanced approach to conscientiousness.

Notable Quote:
[26:25] Judah: “If you're too conscientious, you'll never take risks. If you're not conscientious at all, you'll get into trouble. Balance is key.”

They explore how finding the right balance is essential for personal growth and mental well-being.

---

Interruption and Light-Hearted Interaction

The episode takes a humorous turn when Ryan Seacrest, portraying a comical character, interrupts the conversation. This segment adds levity, showcasing the unpredictable nature of park interactions.

[16:00] Lyle:
“You could say we're therapizing each other in our own ways.”

---

AI and Genuine Human Connection

Judah, who has experience in the tech industry, shares his insights on AI's role in human connection. They discuss concerns about AI replacing genuine interactions and the potential for future generations to resist over-reliance on technology.

Notable Quote:
[20:36] Judah: “A lot of kids are using AI as therapists, and while it's not inherently bad, it worries me how they might rely on it without fostering real human connections.”

---

Reflections on Personal and Gecko Identities

Lyle reflects on the difference between his real-life persona and his gecko alter ego. He shares experiences from meet-and-greets post-shows, highlighting the complexities of handling parasocial relationships and personal expectations.

Notable Quote:
[25:34] Judah: “That's how you define an interaction of itself.”

---

Embracing Vulnerability and Self-Acceptance

Both Lyle and Judah emphasize the importance of not judging others and embracing vulnerability. They touch upon the therapeutic aspects of genuine conversations and the challenges of self-acceptance.

Notable Quote:
[36:07] Judah: “You are enough, but you're also going to grow.”

This mantra encapsulates the episode's central theme of balancing self-acceptance with continual personal growth.

---

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Lyle meeting additional guests, including Sanjay and Rachel, each bringing their own unique perspectives on relationships, personal struggles, and societal norms. These interactions reinforce the podcast's mission to explore the depths of human connection and understanding through unconventional dialogues.

Final Takeaway:
Lyle: “Don't judge a gecko by its skin.”

A fitting metaphor for the episode's emphasis on looking beyond appearances to understand the true essence of individuals.

---

Key Themes & Insights

1. Anarchy and Political Philosophy: Exploring the nuances of anarchist beliefs and their impact on personal and societal levels.
2. Genuine Human Connection: The value of unmediated, authentic conversations in fostering vulnerability and trust.
3. Personal Growth and Self-Acceptance: Balancing self-acceptance with the pursuit of continual improvement.
4. Impact of Technology on Therapy: Concerns and considerations regarding AI's role in mental health and human interactions.
5. Subjectivity of Life’s High Points: Understanding that life’s “peaks” are highly individual and shaped by personal experiences and perceptions.

---

Notable Quotes Summary

• Judah at [05:27]: “People will be vulnerable, people will open up, and it's a beautiful thing when they do.”
• Judah at [07:05]: “I want to recollect on and refer back for my own reference.”
• Judah at [10:22]: “We were just playing on the lake... it was pure and wholesome.”
• Judah at [26:25]: “Balance is key.”
• Judah at [20:36]: “A lot of kids are using AI as therapists...”
• Judah at [36:07]: “You are enough, but you're also going to grow.”
• Lyle at [25:34]: “Don't judge a gecko by its skin.”

---

This episode of Therapy Gecko offers a rich tapestry of conversations that challenge listeners to rethink their perceptions of anarchy, the role of technology in our lives, and the importance of authentic human connections. Through heartfelt anecdotes and philosophical discussions, Lyle and Judah navigate the complexities of the human experience, all while embodying the quirky charm of a gecko psychologist.

Transcript

[Lyle]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Lyle]

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[Judah]

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[Lyle]

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[Lyle]

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[Lyle]

Hello and welcome listeners and watchers of the Therapy Gecko Podcast. My name is Lyle. You might or might not know that it's fine. It is the 4th of July. As of the day I'm recording this, I am here in Washington Square park in New York City, one of my favorite places on the planet. Every time I come here, it's so lively, it's so beautiful. It's excruciatingly hot. But that's okay because I sometimes feel as Though temperature is a thing that can be mentally mastered. You know what I mean? Like, if I believe that I am not excruciatingly hot and sweating to death right now. Like, if I. If I ignore that, you know, if I'm so engrossed in the conversation that I am having that I am forgetting about how hot I am, I think I can beat the heat. And so that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna be so engrossed in these conversations today that I will not even even be thinking about the temperature. And I will prove that all physical ailments are simply of the mind, or they won't, and I'll have a heat stroke and die. But either way, gonna talk to people as a gecko. Let's do it.

[Judah]

My name is Judah.

[Lyle]

Judah, nice to meet you, man.

[Judah]

Pleasure to meet you live.

[Lyle]

All right, so I'm gonna give some context real quick. A lot of the times, like, when I walk over here to, like, set this stuff up, I'll encounter people off camera, and we'll have a little chit chat because there's so many interesting characters here at this park. And so I saw you, Judah, on my way over here to set up, and you had a little table and two chairs, and I believe you had a little sign. Little sign. What's the. What did the sign say?

[Judah]

The sign today said, what sparks your.

[Lyle]

Damn.

[Judah]

I really can't remember.

[Lyle]

I think I said, what sparks your imagination?

[Judah]

What sparks your curiosity? Or something like that. Yeah, something.

[Lyle]

I like that.

[Judah]

Something like that.

[Lyle]

And so you had a sign, and I was. It's like we're kindred. We're kindred spirits, as they say. Both set up in the park to, you know, have conversations.

[Judah]

I mean, my sign is in green, but.

[Lyle]

Well, I. Here's what I thought was really interesting about you is I was talking to you and I was like. I came up to you and I was like, hey, man, are you making content? And you were like, no, I'm just chatting with people. And I'm like, oh, my God, you're so. You're so much purer of a human being than I am. You know, I feel like. I feel like, you know, I honest to God, swear in my life this is something I would really enjoy doing even if there wasn't.

[Judah]

If there wasn't a camera.

[Lyle]

A camera here. But I like. You know, I like the.

[Judah]

There's so many good lines, and they have to be captured and they have to be shared. I mean, you know, like, who else will talk about you know, their knees exploding in chain mail. Like it's. Someone's got to capture that. Yeah, that's your role.

[Lyle]

Well, that's your level. So let's talk about this. You, you said you've been doing chats with people in the park for six, six years.

[Judah]

I just set up a table, two chairs, and assign different forward question each time. And people can write in this little journal if they want, but it's really about the conversation. I got inspired because there were just a lot of, I mean there's a lot of characters all over the world, especially in the city, especially in Washington Square park. And I didn't want to walk up to people and been like, hey, start talking to them or stick a microphone in their face or something. So I want to create a platform. So best I could come up with was a table and two chairs and sat down and waited to see what happened. And you know, a lot of people, when given the chance to express themselves, they will. And if you kind of approach them with no judgment, with an open mind and just an open ear, people will be vulnerable, people will open up and it's a beautiful thing when they do.

[Lyle]

I gotta say it's so interesting because like again, you and I, we were essentially doing the same thing, but there's such a different dynamic to the fact that you just do it and you don't have a camera rolling or a microphone. Yeah, yeah, tell me about that. Do you think that that significantly affects your conversation?

[Judah]

So it's so interesting because like I would ask people, hey, like, if there was a camera here, do you think you'd answer different? It's a mix. Some people said yes, some people said no. But I actually just recently, just the last couple times I did it, I actually have a microphone now because it's just sitting there inconspicuous. It's not like, you know, not a microphone like this, just a recorder. Because I had way too many conversations that were just absolute gold. And in so many ways just like really stuff that I don't necessarily need to share, but I definitely want to recollect on and like refer back to for my own reference.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

And they were just slipping through my fingers. Like I look back at my journal from three years ago and been like, just had the most mind bending conversation about life with Lyle. And I wouldn't have know what the fuck they said. I just will have no recollection of it whatsoever.

[Lyle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Judah]

You know, and I felt like, okay, so this is sliding through my fingers and I want to be able to potentially turn this into some art in the future. So I don't know. And probably I like writing, so probably writing based, but I just have no real recollection. And I wasn't disciplined enough after each time to go and write about it or anything like that. So instead I was like, let me just start recording and then I can.

[Lyle]

Work with it later.

[Judah]

So I have a little disclaimer. It just says, like, if you'd like not to be recorded, let me know, and we'll see. So far, it's been. People have been just as, you know, the same. But I'm sure for some people, if there's a recorder there, they would be different.

[Lyle]

So how did you first get into doing this?

[Judah]

Well, I was just. It was just curious. I mean, I was just sitting here. I was really high. I was like, damn, there's a lot of really cool stories around here, aren't there?

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

And.

[Lyle]

But.

[Judah]

But again, like, as such, as a man walking up to people, they're going to be like, what's the catch? You know, like, what's the. What's in it for you? Why are you talking to me? Sure, that's New York City in a nutshell. But once you kind of make it more consensual, and they come over like, hey, what's this? Just like you did, you know, you'll find that people just willing to chat.

[Lyle]

Well, it's nice. I like doing the form. I'm not a big. I mean, sometimes I've done that. But, like, you know, like the Run and Gun street interviewers, like, like, I feel like, yeah, it's nice to set up a thing. I mean, like, people can come to.

[Judah]

You because you're creating a space. You're not catching people unaware. It's. It's like right now when we're doing this, like, yes, we're in the park, but this is a space. It's not just a pavement.

[Lyle]

Right, right.

[Judah]

Because you set up chairs to sign and everything.

[Lyle]

Yeah, right, right.

[Judah]

And of course, can't forget the gecko part.

[Lyle]

So how did you start doing this?

[Judah]

So I just. One day I just got a table, two chairs off Facebook Marketplace and just sat.

[Lyle]

And there was no, like, there was no impetus. There was no.

[Judah]

No, like, real trigger.

[Lyle]

Oh.

[Judah]

I mean, I think like two years earlier, I'd seen someone set up with, like, a big folding table with a microphone that said, tell me your secrets.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

And I asked him, I was like, hey, do people actually tell you their secrets? He goes, yeah. I was like, you'll just you just hear people just come up and just spill their secrets to a microphone. He goes, man, I've heard the wildest shit. You wouldn't even know the half of it. And I think that was like, I planted a seed, sure. And then I was high and unemployed six years ago, and then was like, screw it, let me try. What's the worst that can happen? I spent a nice day in the park. And what inspired you to dress up as a gecko and put green on your face and get people to just be themselves?

[Lyle]

Well, I started doing this as like a. I mainly do it as like a phone call thing, right. But today I actually. You know, it's funny, actually, I sat down to record the phone call version of this podcast. This episode was going to be a phone call episode. And I got like 20 minutes in, and I was like, I cannot sit in this room right now. I have to go outside. So I was like. It was basically like, right now is my version of like, you know what? It's a nice day. Let's do class outside today. Okay? Kind of a thing.

[Judah]

Wait, so do people just like. Do you say when you're going live and then people ring in, like, how does that work?

[Lyle]

I go live on Twitch and people got it. Okay. Yeah, but. So I have a question for you. Do you. Do you consider yourself an open book? Do you talk a lot about your, like. What was. What was your question today? What sparks?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Your.

[Judah]

It was. Damn. It was.

[Lyle]

What.

[Judah]

What sparks. What memory sparks. Joy.

[Lyle]

Okay. What memory was joy for you? Do you answer your own questions?

[Judah]

Yeah, I was. I really want to tell you, but I know you have a large platform, but fuck it, I'm going to do it anyway. I was on very Powerful psychedelic with my friends on. On a lake, a frozen lake, in February. Not this past year, a February. And we were. We took. We took acid and we just went outside. Not really know. It was cold, but we were like. Played it for eight hours. Like little kids just, like running around, you know, like your mom could just, like, let you out of the house and you just come back eight hours later and, yeah, you did. Who knows what, but you had a great time. It was. Exactly. Cause, like, you know, often when you're on psychedelics, you kind of have, like a childlike wonder. And we were just playing on the lake, and there was this one moment where we had this game where the lake was frozen, and we would run as fast as we can without slipping, and then, like, slide as far as we could, and we were just like, you Guys who could get the furthest, you know, and we're all like giggling 25 year old kid, you know, like it was fun as hell. And at one point we just like paused and the sun was setting and it was. We were in this valley and like the mountains were where it lit up this orange hue and it was like beautiful and like stunned. It stunned us. Like we stunned us into silence. And at that moment, as we're stunned to silence, there's this huge V formation of geese like passing over like migrating or something. And there's like a squawk and there's this lone squawk that just echoes through this pristine valley. And I was. It felt like I was in a painting. And we just look at each other, we were like. That was such a moment that was just pure and wholesome and beautiful and.

[Lyle]

Fuck.

[Judah]

I think we've peaked.

[Lyle]

Well, by the way, first of all, I'm sorry, but first of all, the funny thing to me that I was gonna say is like when you, when you were like, oh, I want to tell this story, but I don't know if I should. I was expecting something way worse than just you took.

[Judah]

This is acid. Yeah. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal.

[Lyle]

This is everyone here.

[Judah]

Some employer will see people in this.

[Lyle]

Radius of us are on acid right now.

[Judah]

That's true. That's true.

[Lyle]

Yeah, that's. But that's really beautiful though. That's. That's really. How many of your friends were there?

[Judah]

It was three of my friends. Yeah. And it was the only time that group, it was like, you know, different disparate friends from different groups. But it was the only time the four of us got together and God damn, it was a good group.

[Lyle]

How long was it?

[Judah]

That was five years. Five or six years ago.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

Probably around the time.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

Yes, 20, 19. So a long time ago. Chasing that high ever since.

[Lyle]

Really you saw, you say that, that, that you peaked. Right. Do you believe in. I. You know, it's funny, I've been thinking about that concept, the concept of peaking.

[Judah]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

And like, you know, having best stages of your life and you know, is youth better than being 80 or. You know what I mean? Like, like, can you put quality, qualitative. Can you, can you, can you objectively or No? I guess it's not objectively. Okay. Do you have subjective definitions of parts of your life that were better or worse than others?

[Judah]

I got, I got. Well, I think, you know, if you're going through some big life changes or there's harm to people in your life. Yeah, that can be worse, for sure. But I think what you're. I think you're alluding to is the fact that, you know, people look on youth and they're like, oh, it was so good to be young. And in many ways it is, right? Like, you're in some of the best health of your life. You can do some of the most stuff in your life. You know, you're in many cases, you know, the most attractive you'll be in your life for some people. Subjectively, again, I'm not saying it's necessarily true.

[Lyle]

You ever seen Helen Mirren and Zaddies, bro?

[Judah]

I mean, that's like in that. Right now I'm hoping to be a zaddy myself.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

But actually it's interesting that you clue that the clue into. Deeper into that. Bring it back to psychedelics. As a child, everything is so new. And as you move through the world and you're building this model of the world and it's like, whoa. Like, everything's cool, exciting, like even just something like going to a new place is like, whoa. But as you get older and it's not. It's not just that you get more experience, that you also get more routine. You start packing more things into your life. Like, how many times do you remember brushing your teeth?

[Lyle]

No idea.

[Judah]

Exactly. You don't remember the distinct times. You've done it thousands of times, but you don't really remember it because your brain just condenses it.

[Lyle]

I can probably count how many times I've flossed, though.

[Judah]

Don't we? All right. You know, as dentist always says that, right? But you know, but at the end of the day, like, yeah, it's gonna. You hang out with the same people, you do the same things, your brain's gonna condense it down, right? So. And as you get older, you just get more to the same people. So your brain just shrinks time and it's like, you know, that's why youth seems like it's so long and so exciting. But if you live your life differently and I've spoken and.

[Lyle]

Yo. Oh, hey. You know that you know this guy. What's your name?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hi, Gekko. I'm Adam. I just had six vegan hot dogs today.

[Lyle]

It's six vegan hot dogs. Yeah. How is that? Is that the equivalent of zero regular hot dogs? Right?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Calorie wise, like nutrient efficiency.

[Lyle]

Yeah. How many calories are in six vegan hot dogs? I don't know.

[Ryan Seacrest]

They didn't tell me. They wouldn't tell me. Any details behind it?

[Lyle]

Who's they?

[Ryan Seacrest]

The guy that ran the hot dog eating contest. I only had six, but the winner had ten.

[Judah]

You weren't that far off. I know.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's so close. I could have had it. Wait, but am I interrupting therapy right now?

[Lyle]

A little bit, but that's okay. It's okay.

[Judah]

It's all part of it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, we all therapize in our own way.

[Lyle]

Well, you know, is the green.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Does that work as sunscreen?

[Lyle]

No, no, no. I'm probably in some form of physical danger right now.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Do you have AC under there?

[Lyle]

No, no. But a nice gust of wind just came by. That's nice.

[Judah]

Nice, right?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm a good gust.

[Lyle]

Come on.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And I love this guy, too.

[Lyle]

Judah. Yo, Jude is the man.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I don't know why he would be in therapy, because he's so cool.

[Lyle]

Wait, this?

[Judah]

But, hey, everybody needs therapy.

[Lyle]

What? This is this. Wait, how do you know this guy?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Canadian coin.

[Lyle]

Wait, that's a Canadian coin?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Looks like it.

[Judah]

He actually sat down in my little project.

[Lyle]

Oh, this guy Adam sat down on your. What did you and Adam talk about?

[Judah]

I don't even remember. It was years ago.

[Lyle]

It was like two years ago.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But it turns out I learned that he also went to Binghamton like me.

[Lyle]

Oh, really?

[Judah]

Same college.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We have different entrepreneurial ambitions and we're similar in a lot of ways.

[Lyle]

That's cool. When did you. When did you guys meet?

[Judah]

Two years ago we met.

[Lyle]

Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. I guess you guys are still friends, it seems.

[Judah]

I saw him in the park a couple weeks ago.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

Hey, I know you.

[Lyle]

We were doing a.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We're doing a giant hug. We're doing this thing called a super hug.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Have you ever heard of this? No.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's like you would be very much about this.

[Lyle]

Well, maybe. Maybe. What's a super hug?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Basically, you put your left arm up and the other person puts their left arm up. And then you touch hearts and they give a deep hug for at least, like, I think, 10 seconds.

[Lyle]

It's like a virgin orgy, kinda. Yeah, yeah, like.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Like a safe orgy. It's like a family friendly orgy. And, like, you legitimately, like, feel calmer afterwards.

[Lyle]

That's cool. Did you. Have you hugged anyone today?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Not yet.

[Judah]

You want a hug?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

All right.

[Judah]

We got a hug for the camera.

[Lyle]

Oh, they're hugging right now. Wow, look at that. Pride month has extended into July. You guys are hugging a long time. You can. You can slap, but you cannot. Okay, that makes sense. I'm just gonna. I'm Just gonna sit here while they hug.

[Judah]

That released the ox. That released the. The serotonin.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Do you own two Gecko? What do you want to.

[Lyle]

Sorry, I have to finish this interview. But later. Later. We could do that. Good to see you too, man.

[Judah]

Good to see you, Adam.

[Lyle]

How was that hug?

[Judah]

Released some serotonin?

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

I feel squeezed.

[Lyle]

That's good.

[Judah]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Wait, I completely forgot what we're talking about beforehand, but.

[Judah]

Oh, yeah, no, don't condense your memories.

[Lyle]

Live.

[Judah]

You can live life differently. I spoke to old people who live there. They're like, oh, my best life was. My best time was in my 60s.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I've had. I remember coming out here to do this podcast, and I talked to some guy who was, like, 58, and he's like, oh, life's the best it's ever been.

[Judah]

Yeah, No, I think. I think it's.

[Lyle]

It's.

[Judah]

It's bullshit of the youth that you has to be the best. Like, I. I think our society tells us that. Our media tells us that, but honestly.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Nah.

[Judah]

I think your best times are. It's here. It's how you react to things that are happening in your life. Not life will always be happening. Question is, are you gonna. How are you gonna react to it?

[Lyle]

My dad is 66 years old, and I was talking to him on the phone, like, last week, and he was like, you know, I've noticed that the less years I have left on this earth, the less anxiety I have. And it's true. I think he's like. He, like, you know, it's fun 27. And I'm like, always. I'm, like, having, like, weird existential crisis about death and whatnot. But it's like, you see, like, those dudes in their 70s, just, like, just chilling. They don't even. Fuck. Yeah. They're not there, and they actually. They. You know, they could die any fucking day. And it's like, who's one of those.

[Judah]

Things that, like, you know, when you have the prospect of it being taken away, then I feel like you can also value it more. Like, you get a cold, and you're like, I just want to breathe again through my nostrils.

[Lyle]

Right.

[Judah]

But then once you can, you totally forget all about that.

[Lyle]

So, Judah, what's your. What's next for you in life? What's your ultimate dream goal? What. What?

[Judah]

Not ultimate dream goal. I. I want to live a day without time.

[Lyle]

You want to live a day without time? Yeah. You mean like a day where you don't check your.

[Judah]

Like, I just do never know what. I wake up and I go to sleep without ever once knowing what time it was.

[Lyle]

What's keeping you from doing that?

[Judah]

Myself. Honestly?

[Lyle]

Yeah? Yeah.

[Judah]

I mean, do you have any meetings? Meetings, Meetings? I just got laid off, so, you know, I got no meetings.

[Lyle]

What were you, what did you get laid off from?

[Judah]

Some tech job, Some tech bro?

[Lyle]

Was it like an AI web 3.

[Judah]

AI thing? Yeah.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Judah]

But gonna look for my next AI thing to hopefully not make a part of my personality at all.

[Lyle]

So you were working in AI?

[Judah]

Yeah, something like that.

[Lyle]

So as you know. But I am curious about your perspective as somebody who both values genuine human connection and has worked in AI. Do you think that, do you think AI is coming for genuine human connection or do you think we'll be okay?

[Judah]

I think a lot of the same people who are relying on technology now for connection and it's not doing the same thing are gonna be the same people who rely on AI for connection and won't be doing the same thing. But will it be easier? I do worry. I do worry. I mean there's a lot, a lot of kids now who are using it as therapists and it's not even bad. Have you tried using AI for therapy?

[Lyle]

I use AI for therapy all the time actually.

[Judah]

Yeah, it's pretty good, isn't it? Yeah, it's got, it's got some pretty objective, well, well grounded.

[Lyle]

I genuinely do. I like AI for therapy. It's just you have to, I think when people try to make it like it's not a friend, it's not your friend. It doesn't, it's not. You don't, it doesn't love you.

[Judah]

But people, but people do lean on it as such. And I think there will be people who do, but there's also gonna be a generation of kids who look at this and be like, fuck that counterculture. And they'll be anti AI, they'll be anti tech, they'll have flip phones and all that.

[Lyle]

Yeah, they really do.

[Judah]

They were doing that.

[Lyle]

Yeah. I was talking to someone. I went to this like film festival at a dive bar like a few weeks ago and I was talking to this guy who's like in a band and he was, he was like in his 30s and he was like talking about like, you know, being at this like I was asking him like what the punk scene is like now. And it's like there's still like, you know, 15, 16, 17, 18 year old kids who are like goths, you know what I mean? Like they're still there like, and it's 20, 25. They never look kind of crazy because it's, like, back at that, like, people were doing that in, like, the 80s. They're still doing it.

[Judah]

They're still under. Still underground raves. They're still, you know, there's. They, like, the kids will be all right. I think they'll be up in their own way as we were up in our own way, as our parents are up in their own way. But, like, they'll be all right.

[Lyle]

Do you feel. Do you feel sorry? I'm checking my shit to make sure. Do you feel fucked up in any ways?

[Judah]

Oh, that's a good question. I mean, I think one of the reasons why I sit in the park and talk to strangers is because I have, like, a deep need. I want to be liked by. I want to. I want to leave a positive impression with everybody I meet. Not necessarily be liked, but at least leave a positive impression.

[Lyle]

I have that. I have that exact same design. And, like, I want to leave a positive impression. And I. And I've had, like, times where, Because I. Sometimes people. Well, both, like, in, like, my personal life and in my gecko life, like, I. I try to. I want people to come away having a positive experience for me. I fully submitted myself to the fact that it's never going to be a hundred. You're never going to be 100% successful.

[Judah]

Do you think. What do you think of the differences in yourself between your real life and your gecko life?

[Lyle]

Well, gecko life is like. Like, I'll tell. I've told. I've told the story on this podcast once, but I'll tell it to you. I'll tell it again. Is. So I do like live shows where I dress up as the gecko. And after. After my shows, I do, like, a little, like, it's. I do. It's like a free meet and greet. I don't make people pay, like, a ticket price for it. And, like, I just stand around and I meet everyone after the shows. And I did a show in Austin, Texas, once, and I said it was like a hundred people in a line. I sat there for, like, so there for, like, an hour and a half, like, meeting everyone, like. And I was. It was very important to me that, like, you know, in those interactions, like, I want people to come away feeling good. And I was, like, thinking about that a lot, and I was, you know, whatever, and I do it. And, like, there was, like, a security guard at the venue, and he was like, I've never seen anyone who played this venue stay after the show and do that. And that made me feel so good. And then, Judah.

[Judah]

Yes.

[Lyle]

The next morning, I go, this is just me being, like, mentally ill. I go, I check my own subreddit, which is a thing you only do if you're mentally ill. And I looked and like, there's a post on my subreddit being like, I am no longer a fan of Lyle. And it was like, I was at Lyle's Austin show last night, and I went to his meet and greet and I told him I was high, and he gave me a weird look and I told him. And I also told him it was my birthday, and he for. And he did not even say happy birthday. And I was like, fuck. And she was like, I got. I bought merch and I'm trying to sell it if anyone wants to buy it. And I was like, come on, man.

[Judah]

You know, it's funny, the dangers of a parasocial relationship.

[Lyle]

I've told the story on the podcast for whatever, whatever. Like, it's fine. I told. So I told that story on the podcast and then I got a comment on what on my podcast from her, and she wrote something like, she wrote like, lol, sorry, I was being a bitch or something. And I wrote back. I was like, oh, it's totally cool, man. Happy late birthday. Which was kind of nice because in life you never, ever, ever, ever, ever get closure like that.

[Judah]

No, it's true. That's nice. That frame from a little interaction.

[Lyle]

Yeah. But I have. I have stuff like that where I'm like, you know, or like, I don't know. You ever walk away from a conversation being like, oh, man, I think I was pretty annoying in that conversation.

[Judah]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

I feel like I was weird quite.

[Judah]

Quite a few times.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

It's an ever improving discipline in art to try to. I think if you're not looking back and cringing, then you're not growing.

[Lyle]

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

[Judah]

You know, I agree. I'm still a firm believer in that. I feel like, you know, you. You should probably try to keep the cringing less hard, but still keep cringing. Does that make sense?

[Lyle]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You don't want to be yourself up. Yeah, exactly. You want to have the. I've. This is one of the things I feel like I talk about a lot. It's like there's an optimal level of conscientiousness to have.

[Judah]

Tell me more like.

[Lyle]

Like some people are so conscientious and don't want to offend people so much, and they don't want to cause any amount of ruckus. So they never take any chances or ever do anything ever. Okay. And then there's some people who are not consciousness at all, conscientious at all, and they just like fucking full send it all the time, every day. Which of course lends people right in trouble as well. So you want to have the right. I feel like you want to have the right amount of conscientiousness skewing towards having less conscientiousness. I.

[Judah]

You know what? I think I. I think I agree with that. It's Aristotle's golden mean.

[Lyle]

Yeah, Aristotle's golden mean.

[Judah]

Of course. Of course.

[Lyle]

Is that. Is that. Did he come up with that?

[Judah]

Well, he basically just said how with all types of qualities, like, you know, between courage and cowardice, like, you know, if you're too courageous, you'll get yourself killed in combat.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

You know, coward. You'll never stand up for anything. And there's something in between, you know.

[Lyle]

I'm gonna give you an example. Your friend Adam. Yeah. Seems like a nice guy. I really did not want to hug him.

[Judah]

I know, I know.

[Lyle]

But he.

[Judah]

He is the kind of person who will want to hug everybody.

[Lyle]

But. But in my head I was like, oh, man. I guess. I guess in my head I was like, I feel like kind of a jerk.

[Judah]

I should have said they'd be like, oh, get the makeup on you.

[Lyle]

You know, it's not a big deal at all. But I was like, oh, fuck, I'm being kind of. But also, it's like, you have to. You have to have the right amount of like, ah, whatever. Just fucking hug the guy. Versus, like, you know what? I don't. I'm gonna not care.

[Judah]

Yeah, no, yeah, yeah. He. He also. I'll just. He is a club promoter. Was that club promoter.

[Lyle]

It seems like a nice gentleman.

[Judah]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Lyle]

That's.

[Judah]

That's the only other thing I really know about him. To be honest. I don't remember anything else.

[Lyle]

People ask me this question all the time. I truly never know how to answer it. But what's the most memorable conversation you've had? Mmm.

[Judah]

I mean, do you want me to get dark, deep, funny?

[Lyle]

I mean, let's do a dark one and a funny one.

[Judah]

Dark one. I spoke to someone who. He comes up to me, his skin's all yellow. Not in the racist sense. Like, his jaundiced. And he just goes, I got three months left to live.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

What advice would you give me?

[Lyle]

Wow.

[Judah]

And I'm a 25 year old kid. I was like, fuck. I don't remember what I said to him, but I remember he cried and we hugged. So I think it made a difference to him. Tried to be as upbeat and positive as I could, but, man, I mean, that was a hard one. I mean, because all this stuff about it's gonna be all right and all that stuff. He was like, probably in his 60s, you know.

[Lyle]

To keep in touch with him at all.

[Judah]

No, no. And he just walked away. And I mean, I think a lot of the beauty, the conversations is when they just kind of, you know, they don't keep going, you know, and it's just kind of. That's the interaction of itself.

[Lyle]

Yeah. It's where you're like, did I hallucinate that?

[Judah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was. That was a heavy hitting one. I mean, on a more. In a more lighter sense, I guess.

[Lyle]

Well, before we move on. Yeah. I'm curious, how long did you talk to this guy for?

[Judah]

It's hard to remember. I mean, this is years ago. Probably like half an hour or so. I mean, most of my conversations go like 30 minutes to an hour.

[Lyle]

You guys cried together. Do you remember, like, what. Do you remember, like, what it said? What was the point where you started tearing up? Or was it just kind of like a gradual?

[Judah]

I think it's when we were trying to focus on what he had, what he had lived and, like, examining the people who have been there for him and, like, taking gratitude for all that.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

And we discussed how it's so difficult often to talk to the people who you love and tell them the things that you love about them. Like, for some reason, people get really awkward when they start saying what they love about you and. But like, it's way easier to be critical and like. Because when someone makes you feel bad and they'd be like, well, this is how you do X, Y and Z. But like, you know, we choke up and it's harder to get that out. I think we were talking about how he's like, yeah, I haven't said that enough to the people I love in my life. I need to go back. I need to tell X, Y and Z this and. And forgiveness.

[Lyle]

Who did he have to tell?

[Judah]

I think he had a daughter. I believe he had a daughter.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

And who he was, like, just getting back in touch with once he got his terminal illness. Yeah. His shit's not light, but it's real and it's real and it's happening around us all the time.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Yeah. You know what freaks me out? A little bit is that death is not like an event at the end of your life. It happens every second.

[Judah]

Interest you ever think about?

[Lyle]

Death is a thing that happens every day. Yeah. You know, every moment. Once. I mean, that's what I get existential about. Yeah. Is you think it's.

[Judah]

Well, there's two ways you could take that. You could be like, death is happening around you to all the people around you. Eventually it hits you.

[Lyle]

Right.

[Judah]

Or you are dying every moment and you will never get the past you back and all you can do is move forward. Which is really inspirational.

[Lyle]

Right? What? Yeah, that's why. That's how I think about it. You know, I don't know. It's not a. It's not. I think it's a. I think that that is. I was talking about the conscientiousness spectrum. I think that's an overly conscientious way to live.

[Judah]

Okay.

[Lyle]

You know, I think. I think that's why. Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Like.

[Lyle]

Like you should think about the fact that you're going to die because it puts a little bit of pressure on you to, like, do certain things. But if you think about too much, you can see you can't actually live.

[Judah]

Every day like it's your last. Otherwise you will not have a savings.

[Lyle]

Exactly. So. Exactly. Too much consciousness is bad. Yeah, it's bad. You don't want to be. You want to get. There's optimal amounts of consciousness, I think. Okay, what's the. What's the funny one?

[Judah]

Funny.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Judah]

Funny's a hard one. Oh, there was a guy. There was a guy who spoke to me.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Who?

[Lyle]

Hold on. Sorry. You can keep talking. I'm just checking to make sure.

[Judah]

I'll just speak to myself. Anyway, yeah, there was. There was this guy who he. He sat down and he just does this and he's like, hey, what are you. What are you doing here? And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm just talking to people. And then he does this and he just like falls over. I'm not doing, like, falls over in the chair. Like. Like spends like 20 seconds studying it. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, man. Like, are you okay?

[Lyle]

Yeah, he's a clown.

[Judah]

He dies a professional.

[Lyle]

Oh, he's a clown.

[Judah]

The fucking professional.

[Lyle]

No, he's like, no, he's a fucking asshole. That's such a dick thing.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, he wasn't like.

[Lyle]

If someone came. If someone came up and was like, hey, can I sit there? And then just started like, destroying my setup, I'd be like, fuck you.

[Judah]

In his defense, he was Just moving the chair around.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Judah]

He was good at it.

[Lyle]

He was good.

[Judah]

He wasn't, like, knocking over the sign or anything like that. But then he would, like, put down his thing and it would knock over. He was like. The dude was, like, so clumsy in a clean way. I was like. I respected it. And he was also a comedian.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Judah]

I feel that he was also fucking hilarious. So that was just. But the guy was just, like, having me in stitches the whole time, and he was just like, you know, you. I mean, you're one of these people, but you meet someone, you're like, oh, you're a character.

[Lyle]

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Judah]

And he was like a true character in the. In the purest sense. And, like. Yeah, he forgot his name already, but, yeah, he was. He was funny.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he wasn't. You know, I think. Yeah, I don't know. I think. I think the part of me that wants to. Like, if someone came up and did that to him was, like, destroying my stuff. I think I would have. You know, there's like, two wolves or whatever, and I would. And I would definitely have one of the wolves in my mind being like.

[Judah]

Rip his face off.

[Lyle]

And the other wolf would be like, it is pretty funny.

[Judah]

Yeah, it is.

[Lyle]

It was pretty funny to do that.

[Judah]

It was. You had to see it. You know, it's a very. Clowning is a very. Got to see it to believe it.

[Lyle]

Kind of thing, for sure.

[Judah]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Wow. Judah.

[Judah]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

This is so cool. This is so awesome that you've been doing this for.

[Judah]

I appreciate what you do, too. I've been following your. Your stuff for a. And honestly, it's remarkable what you get people to open up about.

[Lyle]

Oh, thanks, man.

[Judah]

The range of the human condition that you capture is, I think, one that anthropologists in the future will have a wonderful time going through.

[Lyle]

You know, what's funny is I feel like. I mean, you've been. Well, yeah, I mean, you've been doing this longer than I have. I can't imagine. I've covered many topics that you have not already from different angles. Sure.

[Judah]

Yeah, from different angles. But, yeah, it's. It's just the same book translated in two different ways.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

I find that one very green and, you know.

[Lyle]

Yeah, Well, I find that a lot of humanity struggles and joys are quite common. Like, you know, thoughts aren't particularly unique, nor situations, nor are feelings.

[Judah]

This. Tell me if you agree with this. I feel like these kinds of things makes you believe in the power of cliches.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

Like, you know what? I'm saying, because, like, you know, I read that line recently. It really stuck out, and I'm like, oh, because you can never judge a.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Book by its cover.

[Judah]

You know, like, you never always treat everybody with kindness like you treat yourself. And it's true.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's true.

[Judah]

But it's. You don't really internalize that lesson until you put yourself in these kind of situations and expose yourself to people's actual more deeper and more nuanced situations and stories that it starts to really internalize. And then that's how it actually translates into action. Because just hearing it does not translate into action. And that's partially what this is an exercise of, is repeatedly making sure that I don't jump to conclusions, that I don't create a space of judgment and that sort of thing. So that's.

[Lyle]

Yeah, I like that. Okay, that's gonna be. That's gonna be my takeaway from our conversation, is don't judge. Don't jump to conclusions.

[Judah]

Don't judge a gecko by its skin.

[Lyle]

Beautiful. Judah, is there anything else you want to say to no other computer before we go?

[Judah]

People in the computer?

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

This is also a cliche, but. And I don't know who needs to hear this right now, but you are enough, and that's okay.

[Lyle]

Oh, man. Ouch. I don't. I. I feel like I always wonder about that.

[Judah]

Oh, no. Oh, shit. My parting message has a question.

[Lyle]

Why your parting message? I feel like I just had a conversation on the show about this, but I don't know if. I don't know if I want to hear.

[Judah]

No, I know you can't.

[Lyle]

You can't say that.

[Judah]

And then.

[Lyle]

Well, it's two. I have two wolves. Okay. Okay.

[Judah]

What's one wolf?

[Lyle]

Well, one wolf. I think one wolf is. Is very capitalist in the sense of, like, no, you must produce value of some kind or push yourself through your extra. Through your extrinsic extra. Is that extra.

[Judah]

Extrinsic.

[Lyle]

Extrinsic actions. And then the other part is more like, purely. Just existing is fine. Outside of myself, Like, I don't.

[Judah]

So you apply for yourself personally?

[Lyle]

Yeah, no, I think about myself personally. I think about other people.

[Judah]

But you use that wolf to drive you. Like, to drive you. Yeah.

[Lyle]

Like, on a larger scale. I believe. I do believe, like, everyone is enough, like, as they are. Like, you know, I don't think you should have something.

[Judah]

What about. What about this message?

[Lyle]

All right, well, no, no, no. Your message could be whatever it is. You don't have to change your message.

[Judah]

I know. I Got a little. Little asterisk there. You are enough. Unless you're not producing anything for the American economy, in which case you can go fuck yourself. Just like the big beautiful Bill told you to go yourself, too.

[Lyle]

Yeah. That's a good asterisk, I guess. Well, okay. You know. No, like. Okay on my. And my personal level. Right. What. What bothers me about the you are enough thing is, like, I have been at times, deeply unhappy. And when you're deeply unhappy and somebody tells you, hey, man, you're enough, you want to kill them because you're like, if I were enough, I wouldn't be so unhappy.

[Judah]

Like, when you're depressing, like, it's gonna be okay, and you're like, fuck you.

[Lyle]

Well, not even that. Be like. Like. Like, if you're, like, mis. If you're, like, miserable or you're. Do. You don't feel good, or you have. You feel a yearn or you feel depressed, and people go, you're doing fine as you are. It's like, no, I'm. I'm. If I were enough, I wouldn't be struggling. That's fair, you know, and so that's. I think what. That's part of the reason I. But it's so. You know, it's. It's a weird. I don't know how you would refer to it, but it's. It's paradoxical in that sense, because also the struggle might be. You know, there's two. I feel like there's two ways to be happy, which is. And again, it's a spectrum. It's the. You can either get everything that you want and be satisfied or not want anything. And I think somewhere in between.

[Judah]

I don't think you'll get everything you want and be satisfied.

[Lyle]

You're never gonna get.

[Judah]

I think even if you get everything you want, you won't be satisfied. So actually, that's where Buddhism comes in, right? Just release yourself from all wants and you're good.

[Lyle]

Yeah, but you can't do that. That's a boring. That's a. That's a boring life. Releasing yourself from all wants.

[Judah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, life. Life is fun when you. When you chase desires. For sure.

[Lyle]

I think, well, I lie somewhere in the middle because you're never gonna. I lie somewhere in the middle because if you are the Buddha and you're sitting under Aristotle, baby.

[Judah]

Golden mean. Golden mean.

[Lyle]

If. Yeah, it's the. Cause, like, if you're. If you're the Buddha and you're sitting under a tree and you never want anything yeah. And then you die. It's like you sat under a fuck tree your whole life. That was. That was stupid. Why'd you do that? But then if you. If you're like, I must have one. But then if you're like, you know, whatever, you're Elon Musk, and you're like, I need to have $300 billion and I'm insane, and you, like, your wants are completely unchecked and out of control, then you also miss the point. So you want it. You want to again.

[Judah]

That's true. That's true. That's true. Okay, so. So. Oh, okay.

[Lyle]

Yeah. What's up?

[Judah]

You are enough.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Judah]

But you're also going to grow.

[Lyle]

I like that. I like that. You're enough as you are, but you're gonna. Shall be more.

[Judah]

There shall be more.

[Lyle]

You know?

[Judah]

I like that. Yeah, you are enough. But there shall be more.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I like that. We can end on that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

All right.

[Lyle]

Judah, Very nice to meet you, man.

[Judah]

Honestly, the pleasure is all right.

[Lyle]

I followed the can. You want to shout out your thing?

[Judah]

Oh, no, no, it's not for that.

[Lyle]

Okay, cool.

[Judah]

It's only for people who sit down and speak.

[Lyle]

Dude, you rock, man. You. I. That's so awesome. I have a deep. I have a deep respect for you, brother. I really appreciate it.

[Judah]

Yeah, I try to keep it intimate. Keep the engagement with the people who actually have a stake in it and not passively, you know, found it or something like that, you know?

[Lyle]

So. Yeah. Very beautiful. Very beautiful.

[Judah]

All right, bro. Keep this up. I love what you're doing.

[Lyle]

Thank you, Judah.

[Judah]

And can't wait to see what absurdity you have. You edit this into.

[Lyle]

I'll. I'm sure if you're here often, I'm sure I'll see you again.

[Judah]

Yeah, of course.

[Lyle]

Rock and roll. Nice to meet you.

[Judah]

Take care, man.

[Lyle]

See, man. Man, I gotta say, I'm. I'm very inspired by. By that conversation, you know, I feel like. Oh, what's up? Oh, yo, he left his backpack. I'm very inspired by that conversation, you know? Oh, someone took a photo. Oh, let me see this photo. Oh. Oh, here. Oh, that's such a great photo.

[Judah]

It's your face in it.

[Lyle]

That's such a great photo. Oh, I really like that. Wait, here, hold on. Here. You know what? I have your Instagram. I'll send you or you want, if you can take a picture of it right now, and I'll also send you a picture up for the folks watching this on video. I'll post the yeah, check that out. Wow, that's a beautiful Polaroid. I love that. That's really nice. That was a beautiful conversation. I always love meeting another kindred spirit of talking to strangers at the park. I like that he doesn't record it. You know, I feel like I like recording this, but I do feel like if, you know, if in if in. How old am I? 20 some. If I. If I'm like 55 and the Internet has been destroyed, I will continue to try to find ways to do fun shit like this. So who knows?

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Lyle]

Hey Meta, what's the weather tonight?

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Lyle]

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[Lyle]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Lyle]

Do you want to talk? What's your, what's your name, sir?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm August.

[Lyle]

A guest.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Sure, I'm August. Yeah.

[Lyle]

I was just going to give you a fist bump the way I greet people. So what is, what is this pamphlet? It says affinity groups.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It was in my hand when I wasn't paying attention and it had a hamster on it. It's for Extinction Rebellion, which is a climate activist group that's extremely individual led. It's not really much of an organization. It's like a collective of lots of individuals.

[Lyle]

And are you one of these individuals in this collective?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, vaguely, yeah, very vaguely. I think like Greta Thunberg is like the most famous of the individuals.

[Lyle]

So Greta Thunberg is in the extinction rebellion.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Rebellion, yeah.

[Lyle]

So tell me, what is extinction? Extinction Rebellion.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It is sort of just like a citizen led movement to try to push environmentalism very, very hard in a sort of pressing way and also to work outside of governmental structures which are generally not going to be supportive.

[Lyle]

Interesting. How does, like, how does working outside of. How does one work outside of governmental structures?

[Ryan Seacrest]

A lot of it seems to involve bothering people and getting arrested.

[Lyle]

Cool. When it was the last, when was the last time you bothered somebody and got arrested?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh God, 2020.

[Lyle]

What'd you do?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, that was just like. I think that was something everyone was doing back. Back in the day. Yeah, like doing Black Lives Matter Corona Times. It was just the thing to do, bother someone, get arrested, you know, and like the clubs aren't open so you got to do something.

[Lyle]

Sure, sure. How long have you been, how long have you identified as an extinction rebellion.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Is probably like only a month. Is it dope me onto it here. I always see them at protests and I've like seen them online and stuff, doing stuff. But it's like very easy to get into. You basically just like start going to groups, to the meetings or you just like find some people and like Sort of sign up.

[Lyle]

Cool.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

How did. Okay, so you've only been here for. You've only considered yourself an extinction rebellionist rebel. Rebel. I don't know why I thought. I thought I had to add something to rebellion. Part of it. As a Rebecca rebel.

[Ryan Seacrest]

One of these days I got to figure out like all the prefixes and suffixes and various etymologies of the English language. So I can just make up whatever words I want?

[Lyle]

Bro, you can make up whatever words you want right now.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You can't.

[Lyle]

Yes, you can.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, you can't.

[Lyle]

What do you mean you can't?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Because they have their own rules. Like someone tried to pluralize moose the other day.

[Lyle]

You just. What do you mean there's rules? You just. You just handed me a pamphlet about rebelling against the government. There's no. You're. I would assume that you're the most anti rule guy. What do you mean there's rules? What are you talking about?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I guess there's. There's organizational structures which we have control over instead of having control over us.

[Lyle]

Yes.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So there are anarchistic organizational structures to our language.

[Lyle]

How is an. I think if you're an anarchist, you should have intentionally horrible grammar.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, that's not. I mean, that can be what anarchy is about to you, but that's not what it's supposed to be about.

[Lyle]

But how can anarchy be supposed. But isn't the whole point of anarchy that nothing is supposed to be about anything when we create our own realities?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, that's like nihilism. Anarchy is like a very complex and well thought out political movement that was buried after the 1890 Anti Anarchist Rebellion because anarchists were assassinating political leaders like McKinley and the czar of Russia.

[Lyle]

Wait, so and the assassination of political leaders was what led to the downfall of anarchy?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, because literally every world leader in the world got together in 1890 and sort of decided to make anarchesy the one political philosophy they would never ever tolerate. And they sort of made it into like a swear word.

[Lyle]

But doesn't anarchy. But doesn't anarchy intentionally. Doesn't anarchy imply violence in some way?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, not at all. Anarchy is a very. I mean, obviously there was some violence in. Involved taking out political leaders like Luigi Maneuver, right?

[Lyle]

Yeah, I was like, what about Luigi?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Like, yeah, but in general, it's a very anti war, anti oppression, anti state violence, pro woman, pro environmentalist movement. You see, like the closest thing to anarchy functioning today is in Rojava and northeast Syria. Yeah, it's called democratic Confederalism. And it's like very tied to women's rights and to environmentalism. They were like a very strong anti ISIS force in that region and that enabled them to create like a sort of pan ethnic group out of an original sort of Kurdish struggle based group. They like, they're the only country in the world where the government legally has to be half women.

[Lyle]

Whoa.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, Syria. In northeast Syria. Yeah, in Rojava. It's really an important place. They don't talk about it a lot here because people like to think that Muslim people are misogynistic and that they don't want peace or democracy. But when you leave them to their own devices, you get the full political spectrum like everywhere else. But you also get, I think, predominantly progressive people.

[Lyle]

Okay, so let me. Alright, so what is your name again?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Arques Arkes.

[Lyle]

Who are you? Arkess. I feel like Argus Arkes.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, that's, that's who I am.

[Lyle]

A guest.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Arques Arkess. No, it just Arcus. Arcus Sounds like a guest when I say it.

[Lyle]

Okay. Arcus. Arcus. Arcus. Arcus. Well, okay, listen, Arcus. I'm curious about this. We've talked, we've spent a little bit of time talking about your beliefs and what you stand for, but what's the biography? Who are you? What are you doing in New York?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I teach wilderness skills. And I feel like no one teaches it here because it's a city.

[Lyle]

Right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So probably it's where I maybe needed most.

[Lyle]

Whoa. Who do you teach wilderness skills to?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Whoever wants to learn. I have an Instagram. It's my name and then my last name. That's hard to spell.

[Lyle]

Your first name is also hard to spell.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, hard to pronounce too.

[Lyle]

But how do you spell it?

[Ryan Seacrest]

A, R, C, U, S, A, R, B, O, R, I. And yeah, it's weird.

[Lyle]

How did you get into doing wilderness survival?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I started when I was 15. When I was 13? Yeah. And I just took like a program similar, the ones that I teach now and it got me like in the door. And then I just really delved into it and decided it was what I wanted to do.

[Lyle]

Cool.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And I'm sort of like an anarcho primitivist, which is like a subsection of anarchy. It's deeply tied to the idea that agriculture and civilization actually created and enforced the systems that we don't like, like dominance hierarchies and authoritarianism, misogyny, bigotry, anti homophobia.

[Lyle]

Can I ask you something?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Like, because I feel like both on an individual level and on a societal level, humanity is A fight between our biological natural instincts and our higher, more beautiful human consciousness.

[Ryan Seacrest]

100% incorrect.

[Lyle]

And I.

[Ryan Seacrest]

100% false.

[Lyle]

And I think that society and the individual is the attempt of reconciliation between higher human principles in conflict with more our basic primitive biological truth.

[Ryan Seacrest]

100% false. That concept came from Freud. It was deeply, deeply racist and anti indigenous and Victorian. Our instinctive set of morality was designed to help us survive in the wilderness. Everything we think of as good and moral is actually an evolution. Is it reinforced by evolution?

[Lyle]

Right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Because to have healthy relationships in a beautiful community is to be able to survive in the forest.

[Lyle]

Yes.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Which is hard to do individually. To have healthy gender relationships is to be able to split work between two genders and to allow, you know, allowing for third genders and not horrendor activity.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Everything I think intrinsic to us that makes us beautiful and human is very animalistic and natural and what, What?

[Lyle]

But are we, but we, we, we have something though, as human beings. We have something new that's like, like we got something that the squirrels don't. We have some higher consciousness that we're reconciling with in some way that creates broader spectrums of good and evil and, and whatnot we have.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Our conscious mind is more part of our experience, but we have the same elements to our being as other animals. Especially like squirrels. Squirrels make complex decisions. Squirrels think months in advance.

[Lyle]

Do they really? Are they really?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. I mean, why do you think they bury acorns? They know that those acorns are toxic to eat in the fall because they have too many tannins. If they bury them underground, the snowmelt will wash the tannins out and they'll have something to eat in the spring when there's not a lot of food. Otherwise they would just eat all.

[Lyle]

I don't know, I. Listen, listen. I feel like, I mean like dog, like hamsters, right? You got a hamster on this pamphlet. Like I don't know if hamsters are thinking about, you know, hamsters aren't like, ah, maybe in a year or two I'll go back to grad school. You know what I mean?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, hamsters only live like 5 years old, so they don't have to think that far ahead.

[Lyle]

That's true. Right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Animals that live a long time think further ahead. Animals that have human life lifestyles often have human like types of intelligence, which we value more and we value the skills they have more. But they're not inherently superior to the skills other animals have. They just remind us of ourselves more and that Ties deeply into casteism and racism and capitalism. Because if you are an engineer, you're living a type of lifestyle that's very different than a duck. If you're a farmer or a hunter gatherer, your lifestyle is not actually that different than a duck.

[Lyle]

A duck? No.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So it's easy for someone to say, oh, you're more like an animal. So you're worse than me. Your skills are.

[Lyle]

No, no, no, no, no, no. It's. Well, I'm. Hold on. Well. Well, the idea of, like, humans are a combination of our, like, higher humanness and our animal. This is. Is not. There's no quality. I don't put any qualitative judgment.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

I'm just like. I just feel like that that is one of our central conflicts is as conscious beings.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, I feel like when you focus, when you don't unite your logic and your knowledge with your emotions and intuition and connection to nature and your spirituality.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Then it makes it easier for you to fall astray. Because our minds are able to conceive of falsehoods to an intensity and to a degree that other animals might not really do as much.

[Lyle]

Have you ever, like in your personal life, found yourself slipped away into any falsehoods?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's pretty easy as a human to learn misinformation and not question that. It's illogical.

[Lyle]

What was the last falsehood that you said slipped into?

[Ryan Seacrest]

God, I can't. I don't know. I only know the ones I slip out of. The ones I. I'm probably slipping into new ones all the time.

[Lyle]

Do you feel. How sure are you that you don't live within some sort of falsehood?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right now I'm fairly sure I have a pretty decent idea of how the world works, but I'm sure there's something I believe that's incorrect.

[Lyle]

How do you feel like you gained a decent idea of how the world works. Is that even possible?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think so. I'm like a very rough in general way.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. I have a question for you.

[Lyle]

Yeah, what's up?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Why don't you never lick your eyeballs? Don't they get dry?

[Lyle]

I. I don't like my. Yo. There's been times I've had like. Like I had an ex girlfriend who licked my eyeball once. I actually really liked it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Ex girlfriend, not current girlfriend.

[Lyle]

It didn't work out. But.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But like, current when she licked it or not?

[Lyle]

Well, yeah. Current when she licked. No, yeah, yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah. No, I didn't. I wasn't like, hey, I know we haven't talked in a while, but if you could you come lick my eyeball?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

No, no, no.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It was all time sake.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Sometimes when you don't get something out of the way in the relationship, you need to try it afterwards.

[Lyle]

No, I feel like, I feel like once you guys break up, eyeball licking.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Is off the table.

[Lyle]

How's your dating life? Are you seeing anyone? Are you? I don't know.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hopefully at some point.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, I'm like a relationship. I'm a wife guy. Aspiring wife guy.

[Lyle]

Aspiring wife.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. Aspiring stay at home dad.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Are you like, have you gone on any dates lately? Have you met anyone?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Not in New York. Yeah. But I usually only date people I know because I feel like your girlfriend should primarily be your bro and also your roommate and then like tertiarily the person you fuck who has a butt that you like.

[Lyle]

I, I will say I actually think dating people, you know, it's a double edged sword because I think like, like dating apps and whatnot.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

They've allowed you to extend outside your network to go on dates.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

So that like, you know. Cuz like, I don't know, let's say you have like a co worker or friend or like somebody who's like already in your life.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Express romantic interest in them. Yeah. And it's not panning out. It's not, it doesn't pan out.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

It's like it's we, it's like now a part of your existing life has been corroded in some way, shape or form. But dating apps is like, oh, if this doesn't work out, that's great because.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We have two completely separate lives, disposable individuals. Yeah.

[Lyle]

But yes, it also is the double edged sword of. It does make, it does by nature make the process of people more, more disposable.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean I feel like if you're not in a place where you can have a mature relationship with your friend that involves an attempt at romance that doesn't work. You might also not be in a place where you can have a mature romance with anyone.

[Lyle]

I don't know. Well, I don't know if it's about maturity. I don't know if, I don't know if that's about maturity. I think it's about just like emotional, just about like general emotion. You know, I think you can be like two mature people who are like we cannot be around each other every single day because it will cause too much pain. I think I don't Think that's necessarily immature.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. But then I feel like that's a little. I feel like if you that deep into the situation where you're like, you want to be together and somehow can't and it's just like, dreadful, then I'm not sure that a dating app is gonna change that aspect of. Because then you'll just get. I don't know. That's a niche. A niche and unpleasant situation I hope not to enter.

[Lyle]

What's your ultimate goal in life?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I just want someone to lick my eyeballs, man. I want. I want eyeballs to lick.

[Lyle]

Can you. I don't think you can lick your own eyeball. Is that possible?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Probably.

[Lyle]

I hope not, bro. You heard the story of that guy who got his ribs removed so he could lick his own eyeball? Well, actually. Wait. Well, okay. You know what's crazy is if you can get your ribs removed to make it so that you can suck your own dick. Yeah. I wonder if there's like certain cheekbones that you could get removed.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, God.

[Lyle]

You could lick your own eyeball.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I guess you could remove the eyeball itself.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Oh, and then like, like pop it out like Shakespeare style with the skull and then.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. Lick it, Put it back.

[Lyle]

Yeah. That could be kind of cool.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I don't think that guy did that. That was like a rock star. There's no fucking way that guy did that.

[Lyle]

Can I ask you something?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Go.

[Lyle]

I'm curious. Based on your social and political ideologies, are you an optimist or a pessimist?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Big optimist.

[Lyle]

I love that. Yeah, that's wonderful. Even in. Even in. Because people are, you know, people are scared, man. With, you know, big beautiful Bill and AI and life and people. People are scared, you know. Are you optimistic?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. It's like a parabola. I think, like, the more you learn, the more depressed and terrible you are.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Ryan Seacrest]

The worst the world is. And then at some point you just start to like going back again and you end up happy again.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You like a happy, like old wise monk.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Instead of like a depressed teenager.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We gotta take back. We gotta make wokeness fun. We gotta make. We gotta make wokeness funny. Like, there's this great quote I heard by a guy talking about Confederate statues. Like, we gotta make some anti racist statues and we gotta beat them with volume. Just like hordes of anti racist statues all over the South.

[Lyle]

What would your anti racist statue be?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, I feel like my version of that would be like, actually funny and good to be around woke people.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Like Because I think humor is mostly based around like referencing people have heard before being really inappropriate and sexual and a little bit offensive and being charismatic and just sort of sounding and looking funny. And there's no reason that a super woke non problematic person can't be great at that. And I actually think they should be better at it because if you're making fun of something that's wrong, that's also like inherently illogical because it's just sort of like based and dumb. It's like an absurdity to it that you're making fun of and that's super humorous.

[Lyle]

Oh, I like that a lot.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We have sticks up our asses and we don't ever say anything funny so no one likes us. Yeah, but if we just like went off on like the misogynists and the racists and talk about how fucking stupid they were and how they were just like dumb idiots and like we're funny and interesting about it, I think people would jive with it super hard.

[Lyle]

Do you have comedians that you like?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I like a guy named Richard Acaster.

[Lyle]

Oh, I think I, I know he's. I know James Acaster. Oh, that's a different guy. I don't know.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Wait, maybe it is James Acaster. He's like a British guy with red hair.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Are you. Do you like George Carlin?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I like George Carlin too. Yeah, he's pretty good. Richard Acaster is good because he's like kind of funny looking and he gets real mad and like he also just talks about like really random shit. But it's always something nice. It's always about how like the British Museum should like stop stealing people's paintings and people shouldn't like go to a club to cheat on their girlfriend. And also just like funny stuff. Like his town does weird soccer chants and like he lives in some random ass village in England and it's like funny and he has like enemies who are like teenage boys.

[Lyle]

Wait, I feel like I wanted to ask you more about your personal biography as a human being and we talked a little bit about it. What do you, what do you do all day, man?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I like look for students and I learn stuff and I think about stuff and I like plan. I spent a lot of time sitting and like flea planning like talks and lessons I'm going to give and how I'm going to word them.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Because I would with kids in the forest a lot.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And that's like a recipe for danger and chaos. So you have to literally have everything like free worded but also Be saying it like at random spontaneous intervals in between stuff happening that you didn't expect to have any way to plan for.

[Lyle]

Oh, hey, there's a parrot guy who's saying stuff. It's crazy parrot guy.

[Ryan Seacrest]

He's going to bite you.

[Lyle]

Oh, it'll be okay.

[Ryan Seacrest]

He'll date me. He's a taste for human flesh. Terrible.

[Lyle]

Wait. Crap. I'm trying to remember what I was going to ask you. Oh, yes. I want to know this. I want to know this. You seem to. You think. You seem like a man. You think a lot about philosophy and consciousness and all these things. Where do you believe we go when we die? Do you believe consciousness secedes and it's the same? Do you believe there's a extra dimension in which our consciousness flows? Or what do you think?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, man. I mean, I feel like that's a very grain of salt question.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

For me, the only way I can really say is like, I feel like we go to join the ancestors and watch over the future generations of living people. I feel like our body we give back to the land and then it becomes the bodies of our children and great grandchildren and of other living beings.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And I feel like before we are born, we're sort of part of the universe in some logical or spiritual or.

[Lyle]

We'Re carbon and shit at least.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, I feel like before we're born, in a sense we are the universe.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And I think in a more personal. I think we were like a spirit. I would define it as like a spirit. And so you sort of, when you're born, remember that shit. And that's why babies are like sort of wise looking and why they know how to swim and why they like learn extremely fast and like seem to like be really like precognate and intuitive. And then they just sort of get really dumb and the max dumbness hits at like age 7 or so.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And then they start to gain more of like a human intelligence.

[Lyle]

Bro. I like, I love that thought idea of like babies are secretly extremely wise.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Because they were just, they just came from being the universe. The universe. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know what, it's cool, right? Because I feel like the more the most in touch with the universe. You are the wind, your presence, you know? And I feel like babies are so deeply. Presence.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

And they're so deeply connected to just like. Yeah. The. I mean, kind of like we were talking about with the last guy, kind of the. The novelty of life, you know, everything is so novel to them.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh my God, that's Why? I love kids. One time I was with a kid and I saw him sit down on a log and he was like, this is the, this is the first time I'm ever gonna sit on a mossy log. And then he sat on it and it blew my fucking mind. I was like, wow, that was literally the first time he sat on a mossy log. And I saw it.

[Lyle]

So you are an aspiring husband and stay at home dad?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, very.

[Lyle]

Okay, so are you looking. So as a stay at home dad, are you looking for like, like, do you want to date like, like a, like a rich, powerful woman?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Fuck yeah. Yeah. Little older, like more confident, like some gray in her hair that's. But like still willing to have a couple kids? Definitely.

[Lyle]

That's sick. You ever like, you ever like, take strolls down Wall street and whatnot?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think those women might be a little, I don't know, something. Sometimes women just like, aren't as corrupted by shit as guys are somehow. And it seems sort of weird, but like, I heard, I don't know, this weird story that like during the Russian revolution, like the women in the Zo's family were like pro revolution, even though they were specifically like getting executed by the revolutionaries. Like there's this idea called genealogy, which actually comes from Rojava, which ties feminism, misogyny, very, very closely to all forms of oppression and also to anarcho primitivism and indigenous cultures.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And to third wave feminism and the idea of just femininity in general as being a positive trait.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I also feel like our society sort of just takes 90% of the human experience and decides it's just for girls. Well, like what?

[Lyle]

Okay, give me. I can. Can you, can you list? I want to know. Oh, yeah, let's give me three things that you feel like should not be just for girls. You feel like are. Are societally conditioned to be just.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay, like. Okay, like let's do it.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Parenthood. Looking attractive and having emotions.

[Lyle]

I, I have to, I honestly.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Basic human traits.

[Lyle]

I have to disagree that I think those are that conditioned for women. Parenthood.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, I, I don't know.

[Lyle]

You think I.

[Ryan Seacrest]

When's the last time you heard the phrase paternal instincts? My paternal instincts.

[Lyle]

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay.

[Lyle]

Okay. I'll actually hand you that. The people.

[Ryan Seacrest]

When's the last time you wanted a random guy to. You've never met to look after your five year old daughter?

[Lyle]

I'll give you that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'll give you that time you saw a guy my age. Call an 18 year old girl cute and assume he was just like talking about it as a kid and not as like a partner. Literally never.

[Lyle]

I'll say, I'll say. I don't see like. Okay, you know, the whole looking attractive thing. Yeah, most. It's true. Like you know, cosmetic brands and whatever. Most of that stuff is. Yeah. Marketed towards.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Women. I'll give you. That was the third one.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Third one. Just having most emotions.

[Lyle]

Having emotions.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Most emotions.

[Lyle]

I think men are coming around. I think men are coming around on emotions.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Coming around. It's getting better. I think all of them are getting better. Yeah, there's definitely a weird backlash going on with like the weird fucking, I don't know, like bro, guys, whites, fucking alt, white crowd. But like I think most guys are.

[Lyle]

Getting, I think like, like I generally feel as though like, like if you're like, like if you're a guy these days and you have like a group of like dude friends. Yeah, I think most. This is just like complete anecdotally.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

I feel this in my group of dude friends. But also, you know, I think like younger generations too.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Like friends in high school and shit are willing to be like, yo, I love the homies.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Willing to like tell their friends they love them. Willing to like open up to their friends. You know, it's. I think that's something that like men are willing to do with their friends.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You know, it's coming. It's a little weird still. I feel like the fact that they seem to like guys see just sort of be hiding how they feel, like what they really think a little bit.

[Lyle]

You think so?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Like 90% of the time. I think so a little bit.

[Lyle]

I'll give the approved to the second two. The first two, but give me the third.

[Ryan Seacrest]

They hide like quite a lot behind irreverence and jadedness and humor and like saying fucked up stuff. Stuff they don't actually believe. And they also like sort of are a little bit not that serious, a little bit not that emotional. And then when they do open up, it's like, like a little intense. It's like a little bit like, okay, you can, you can take a step back.

[Lyle]

It's.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's fine.

[Lyle]

I don't know, don't we all, don't we all mask our emotions in some way through some sort of displacement personality or activity A little bit. But I feel like humans are, we're. Humans are dynamic enough that you can be funny and say outlandish things and do whatever and also still have a deeply Emotional side, Definitely.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think so. I think you definitely can. I think it's just being done as a defense mechanism by guys and masculine people a lot. A lot more than by women. And I think that's why when a dude like, is really like, I love you, bro. Like, man, this is how when I tell my cried, it's like, it feels really intense because it's like sort of sudden.

[Lyle]

I don't want to put a gender to this person.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It looks so cool.

[Lyle]

That is a cooler. Now we're surrounded by beautiful life.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

I was gonna say, like, do you feel like. Like I meet so many people nowadays who are like, they talk in tick tocks. You know what I mean? Like they talk in. And it's men and women and. And you know, like talking in memes or talking in tiktoks. I feel like is. That's a huge.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Weird as fuck.

[Lyle]

Like, that's a huge. Like I'm displacing myself from emotions.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Do you agree with that?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Fucking weird. Really weird. Really weird.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I feel like you see that a little bit in Japanese culture.

[Lyle]

Oh, yeah. What's. What is it in Japanese? There's like the two face. You know, there's a word for this in Japanese culture. Fuck. Somebody in the comments say, but it's like one is like your, your. Your outside face and then your inside face. Whoa. Have you ever heard of this?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think so. Yeah, definitely.

[Lyle]

I don't know the word exactly, but someone, someone in the YouTube comments will. Will be. It will say it's maybe. Mm. I've enjoyed talking to you, man. Have you, have you. Have you handed out a lot of these pamphlets?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I just forgot I was holding that when I like went to fist bump. Yeah. But there's a dude who's here like every day when it's like way too hot out in like the sunniest place imaginable. Giving out free stickers and giving out pamphlets and like getting people to care about the nature. They're literally a part of that. They are 100% going to get fucked along with.

[Lyle]

Can I ask you a question that comes from. I've been talking a little bit today. I talked to the last guest who was on this chair about how I have two wolves in my head. I do. I have two wolves in my head. One wolf is. One wolf in my head loves life, very optimistic, loves the earth, loves humans. The other wolf in my head is like, sees, you know, whatever climate change and whatnot and goes, we had a good run. You know, why is humanity. Why is Humanity and life so important that we have to save it. You know, that wolf exists in my head. And I ask you, as somebody who cares about these things, what would you. What would you say to that wolf? And why should we care?

[Ryan Seacrest]

That story comes from a book called the Education of Little Trey and it was written by a former Ku Klux Klan member turned anti racist looking for redemption in the most weird blackface y way possible.

[Lyle]

Sure, okay. But more, give me more than that. I mean, philosophically, why should we care about life?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I feel like that's. That's both wolves at once. Being one wolf or maybe a coyote. I. I guess, yeah. Life is weird and messy and sometimes kind of fucked up, but it's still beautiful and still working forwards and sometimes something, you know, fucked up. Like an ex clan member writing a book with pretends to be a Native American creates a beautiful story that actual Native Americans really resonate with.

[Lyle]

I like. Listen, I'm not Native American, but I like the two wolves thing. It makes sense.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Well, anyway, I like life today. And today's all we got. Give me your name one more time.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Arcus.

[Lyle]

Arcus. Arcus. If you want to plug anything, you can. I know you said you have an Instagram.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Go to my Instagram. If you can understand the words I make with my mouth, it's aocus AO B O R I at Instagram. There's nothing fucking on it. There'll be pictures on it soon of us doing stuff in the forest and then you can come and go in the group chats and then you can come out and play in the forest with us.

[Lyle]

Rock and roll. Very nice to talk to you, dude. I'll see you around the universe. I'll see you. I'll see you around the universe. Good luck. Her next. That guy was interesting. That was. That was a cool conversation. I feel like, what did I learn from that? I don't know. I don't know if I have. I don't. Wait, what did you say? The eyeball licking? Somebody said the eyeball licking Stuff I learned about licking eyeball. I was. If you have someone in your life who might be willing to lick your eyeball, I recommend it. It's a fun. It's a night. It feels nice. Although I remember, I remember after someone licked my eyeball, I went on Google, Google. And I was asking Google about it and they were like, you shouldn't do that. That can cause. That can spread diseases. But what does the Internet know? Have a seat, Liana. Very nice to meet you. I'm Lyle. Liana, what's up? How's life?

[Rachel]

Life is pretty good right now.

[Lyle]

Very good.

[Rachel]

This might be a downer from the last conversation, but I'm in the like, best relationship I've been in like my whole life.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

And I've been in nothing but, but bad relationships. But I don't know how to feel comfortable with getting the love that I'm getting.

[Lyle]

How to feel comfortable getting the love that you're getting. Wow. Interesting. Well, I guess. Okay, I'm curious about a few things. In what way does that discomfort manifest in your physical actions? And you know.

[Rachel]

Yeah, just, I'm just like very defensive. Like I have a wall up from the past.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Rachel]

That I don't know how to get rid of.

[Lyle]

Like, like, like, like whoever you're dating. Right. They'll be like, like what? They'll tell you they love you and you're like, ah, no, I suck somewhat.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Okay. Okay. Huh. I don't know. Do you have a real therapist?

[Rachel]

Not really, no. Should I change the topic?

[Lyle]

No, no, no. You didn't do anything wrong. I'm just curious. I'm just, I'm thinking about my thoughts on this situation. I mean, how else does this manifest? Like, give me, give me some examples. Like, how do you feel as though you cannot accept this love?

[Rachel]

Just cuz like I don't know how to like trust just because I've adapted.

[Lyle]

You don't have to trust this person.

[Rachel]

That's like one of the things.

[Lyle]

Yeah, I, I can only really give you my, My own lived experience and thoughts about trust.

[Rachel]

Yes.

[Lyle]

My own lived experience and thoughts about trust is like, okay, so you're in this relationship, Right. And how long you been with this person?

[Rachel]

Just a few months.

[Lyle]

A few months. And I, I guess I would say in my own relationships with. Trust is like in any kind of relationship business, platonic, romantic, whatever, you kind of like audit yourself to be like, am I doing the best job I reasonably can within my efforts? Am I having the best intentions that I reasonably can? And as long as I'm holding up my end of the deal, if this person decides to in some way shape or form betray my trust or attempt to hurt me after I've held up my end of the deal, that doesn't bother me really because I feel like that's, that's not really a reflection upon me, you know, I don't control the evil that surrounds me. I only control a half of it. And, and you kind of do those things intuitively and you don't focus so much about what Comes back, of course you. Of course you yearn. Of course you want. You'd be fucking lying. I'd be lying to myself. I said I didn't want anything back. You know, I'm not the fucking Buddha. But like you, you have to at some point accept that what comes back is somewhat out of your control. And so the trust is less a trust. The trust that you're swinging around is less of a trust in another person and more of a trust in yourself. That you're approaching your life with as much goodwill as you possibly can. And that everything beyond that is. Is beyond you, and you surrender to what's beyond you. Does that make any sense or is that an insane ramble?

[Rachel]

No, that makes sense.

[Lyle]

All right, cool. Okay. Shit. Maybe I'm better at therapy than I thought.

[Rachel]

Maybe you're all. All seeing Gecko.

[Lyle]

I am a gecko. What is your name again?

[Rachel]

Liana.

[Lyle]

Yeah, I'm horrible at remembering names.

[Rachel]

That's okay.

[Lyle]

But I feel like I'm. I get so ingrained in the conversations that I forget names.

[Rachel]

The name is the least of your worries.

[Lyle]

I like that you have a Harley Davidson hat on.

[Rachel]

I've been upstate in Hicksville.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Is that where you're from?

[Rachel]

No, no, that's where my girlfriend's from.

[Lyle]

Okay. You said it's influenced you.

[Rachel]

Yeah, I mean, I've just been there and I'm from Jersey, but I hang out here mostly, so it's definitely a lot different. Like, it's quiet. Everybody's like country. Like really country.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

So I've. I've been influenced, if you couldn't tell.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You got the camo pants.

[Rachel]

I got the camos. The cut off tee.

[Lyle]

Like, is it. I feel like. I feel like. Tell me if I'm crazy, but I feel like is country experiencing some kind of cultural shift where it used to be seen as like a very. Like, like, it was like a very. It was like very conservative. And now it's like. It's like, it's kind of being taken back. Like, I'm seeing like Brooklyn, like hipster people, like, wearing like camo hats and cowboy boots and shit.

[Rachel]

I. I mean, I think a lot of people take from, like, the aesthetic, but when it. When you're in like a very country area, it's very country conservative.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Rachel]

So I. I definitely see a lot, like, especially today, because the fourth of July, a lot of people wearing cowboy boots, American flags, camo, but nothing further than that.

[Lyle]

Do you have any 4th of July plans tonight?

[Rachel]

No, I wanted to see what was going on here? I thought there would be more events.

[Lyle]

Oh, it's an event every day. Look at all all this stuff.

[Rachel]

That's true. I'm here every day mostly. And you're here every day, like around from Jersey? Yeah, I. I live one stop from Penn Station.

[Lyle]

Oh, cool.

[Rachel]

Yeah, so I'm here a lot. And this is kind of just like everyday summer festivities. Just a lot more American flags. I thought there would be like more fun stuff, like do this for fourth of July.

[Lyle]

If. Okay. If you could visualize what your perfect fourth of July would be, how would that go down?

[Rachel]

Sitting in a pool, eating ice cream and watching the fireworks.

[Lyle]

I feel like you can find a place here.

[Rachel]

No, you definitely can find a place.

[Lyle]

Here to do that. But what you just described in Manhattan will cost at least $300.

[Rachel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

You're gonna have to leave the city.

[Rachel]

To do that by me. There's a lot to do like that. But all my friends are here and they don't go to Jersey.

[Lyle]

Do you go to. Do you go to school here?

[Rachel]

No, I'm not in school.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

I graduated high school and said it.

[Lyle]

Very cool. Very cool. What do you have. What do you want to do with your life?

[Rachel]

I have no clue.

[Lyle]

Do you have, like, inklings of anything that is exciting to you in any way, shape or form? Even. Even minuscule y.

[Rachel]

Anything art related? Really?

[Lyle]

That's cool. Did you do your own tattoos?

[Rachel]

No, these are just on the fly. I've gotten most of them, like, impulsively.

[Lyle]

Who's your favorite artist?

[Rachel]

Probably this girl, Iris Tatts. That's where I got this one from, the most recent one.

[Lyle]

That's cool.

[Rachel]

It's from Coraline, but she was really sweet and I love a lot of her work that she like, post about.

[Lyle]

Really nice. Really nice.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Okay. So you want to be in a pool watching the fire. By the way, I just. Sorry. I know this has something to do with our conversation, but at the very beginning of sitting down, I said to myself that I would be able to ignore how hot it was by being so engrossed in the conversations that I would forget the temperature. And it's actually been working. I thought it wasn't going to work. I thought I'd be sweating. My. My.

[Rachel]

It's not working for me. I feel the heat.

[Lyle]

My. How's my. Is it my dripping on the paint at all?

[Rachel]

No, you've just been touching your beard. So that's where it's gone.

[Lyle]

I have been touching my beard. Yeah. Is there a pro Is there a. Someone has a megaphone?

[Rachel]

Yes, he's right there.

[Lyle]

Oh, man, I love the $1 water guy, man. Here. You know what? You know what's crazy is people talk about inflate. You know, I feel like maybe I talked about this on the podcast before, but people talk about inflation. Right?

[Rachel]

Right.

[Lyle]

I feel like no matter how much inflation goes, the dollar water guy will always still, like, that's his brand forever. It's going to take about. It's going to take another 100 years for the dollar water guy to raise his prices.

[Rachel]

And it'll go to 125.

[Lyle]

It'll go to 1, it'll go. It'll have to go to 2. Right.

[Rachel]

Maybe.

[Lyle]

I feel like in 100, I feel like Americans, we got to get rid of coins. Our coins are just not worth anything.

[Rachel]

That's true. I mean, I work at a very, like, small, little town, like bagel shop, and a lot of the older people have exact change.

[Lyle]

Really.

[Rachel]

So maybe in major cities like this, coins should go, but in very small towns.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Coins just never cease to exist.

[Lyle]

Get rid of the coins, but bring back the dollar coin. I love a dollar coin.

[Rachel]

I feel like when I have a dollar coin, I just never use it. I just look at it.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

It's too special.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Somehow I have none left.

[Lyle]

I feel horrible that I'm gonna ask you your name a third.

[Rachel]

Liana.

[Lyle]

Liana.

[Rachel]

Think like Brianna, but with an L.

[Lyle]

You know, it's so not. You know, it's so annoying to me is I feel like I can. I can. I can. Like. Like. Like in that moment when I forgot your name, it's like you could quiz me on it, on. On your life as. As the information you've told me. And I think I would get 99% of it correct except the name. That's just how my brain works.

[Rachel]

I got it.

[Lyle]

I know that. I mean, I know. Yeah. Well, you were talking about with your girlfriend. I know you live in Jersey. I know that you work in a small town.

[Rachel]

Yes.

[Lyle]

I know that you're not in school right now. I know you have friends who live in the city, but I would have. I would have not remembered the name. Is that bad? No. You think I'm gonna. Am.

[Rachel]

I feel like knowing my life is definitely a lot more important to me than knowing my name.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Good. Okay, good.

[Rachel]

It's the least of my worries. If you know me, you know me. If you know my name, it's whatever.

[Lyle]

Liana, is there anything else you want to say to the people at the computer before we go?

[Rachel]

Not really. Other than have a good summer and happy fourth Hags.

[Lyle]

I'll see you around the university on I thank you very much for talking to a gecko.

[Rachel]

Thank you.

[Lyle]

There's a lot of really. I don't know if I don't know how much background noise you'll be able to hear on this podcast, but there's a lot of really nice music and happenings about. It's nice. What's your name, man? I'm Sanjay. Sanjay, nice to meet you. I like your shirt. Your shirt says LOL and then underwear under it. It says love of laughter. Yeah. Yeah. What's up, Sanjay? How's life?

[Judah]

Good?

[Lyle]

Not much.

[Judah]

It's been spin.

[Lyle]

Okay. How about you? Why only okay? I mean, it's been like mundane, but like in like a good way, you know? Yeah. Mundane life contains a lot of joy in it. What. Tell me about, like, what do you do every day? I mean, I'm a full time student and then I do a lot of like, stand up. So like, I usually just like go to class, then like write some jokes, go to an open mic and then like. Oh, you're stand up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool. Yeah, very cool. How's this. How's the New York stand up scene treating you? It's okay. It's.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's really cool.

[Lyle]

I think it's like a lot of fun, but it's also like, there's so many comics, you know, so also try to like pivot into like content and stuff like that. But cool, like every. Like, that's my original idea. Yeah.

[Judah]

Let me do content.

[Lyle]

What's your. What's your dream? I would like to be an SNL cast member. That's my dream. Really? Yeah. Yeah. How old are you? Can ask. 20. 20.

[Judah]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

By the time you. I think SNL. SNL is kind of dead, isn't it? I mean, it has faltered. Yeah. It's not like the Everyman show it used to be, for sure. I'm gonna. Well, hold on. Can I. All right. I'm gonna tell a very douchey story. Okay, good. Okay. And this is why I think I might get some heat for this. But it's fine, I think wanting to be an SNL cast, but only because Sanjay. Yeah, yeah. Only because I. I want. I remember my name. Yeah, I do. Okay. So two years ago, like, the Internet is so much more powerful than Saturday Night Live. Yeah, I guess that makes sense, but almost were powerful. I mean, shit, look at like fucking Shane Gillis, man. Dude, you know he like, came back, like when he first got. When he first got fired from Saturday Live, everyone was like, this is gonna be better for his career. And I didn't believe. I was like, nah, he kind of got fucked. Yeah. And then now, now that everyone was right, it was better for his career. He's like 10 times as big as any cast member, right? Yeah. And he's hosting and so I'm not gonna name any names. And this is not in any way, shape or form reflective of this performer themselves, but it's just about like SNL as an. It's more reflective of SNL as an institution. Okay. I'm not gonna name this performance name. They're very funny. But again, it's about the institution, not the performer. Okay. Two years ago I was in England, okay, doing a show, okay. Sick therapy Gecko. And you know, at the time, you know, I was going viral on TikTok or whatever and I had a sold out show at this comedy club in England, Okay. And the next night after my show, there was this guy headlining who at the time was an SNL cast member. Uh huh. And at my show, they're putting flyers for his show on the seats and I was looking at the flyers and I was like, damn, dude, my show was sold out. Gecko Trumps. I'm selling more. I don't, I don't know how it would go nowadays, but at least at that time it's like, damn, I'm selling more tickets than somebody who was on Saturday Night live off of TikTok and Instagram and YouTube and whatnot.

[Judah]

Dude.

[Lyle]

Gekko. Gekko Trump's Lorne Michaels. No, it is. No, no, it's nothing to do with. That's beef right here. Just. No, it has nothing to do with that. Like, you know, I don't know, like you're. The goal for you is more. Yeah. You'll find more success on like YouTube and. Yeah, well, I want to be a comedian. I also want to like, create a TV show. Those are two big things. What the fuck is a TV show? Yeah, TV show. I think it could be. Well, it is. It's a fun. It's, you know, it's. I mean, it's a. People, nobody watches tv. I don't know. I just watch Family Guy clip by clip. That's my TV. Yeah. On TikTok. That's. Yeah, but you watch it on TikTok. Yeah. So I don't know, I feel like, I feel like the old guard of like, I want to be on SNL or have a TV show. It's like all that shit's dead, dude. It's like a double edged sword because it's like so many people. It's like anybody can do it, but now so many more people are doing it. It's good. Yeah, it's great. They democratize the media landscape. Yeah.

[Judah]

I mean, I think that's always something.

[Lyle]

I've always wondered I'm like, how many.

[Judah]

People you think were more talented than.

[Lyle]

Like a Dave Chappelle or like, you know, like Chris Rock or like, you know, like a ck, but they just never attempt or like never got seen in the right room or whatever. Well, I mean, yeah, bro, that's how it goes. Or I mean comedy, but also like any kind of art, it's less about art and more about like, it's. It's a combination of like good taste and talent and marketing opportunities and luck. Yeah, it's like a third of each of those things. It's kind of like, like. Do you watch the NBA? No.

[Judah]

Okay.

[Lyle]

There's like a story of like one of like this European basketball player who is like, like head and shoulders above the rest would have like a 40 point triple double at halftime in Europe. And they wanted him to come to the NBA. They said he'd be better than like Jordan and like all these guys.

[Judah]

But like he couldn't come for 10.

[Lyle]

Years because of his visa. And by the time he finally came he was like old. So like.

[Judah]

And he was still like really good.

[Lyle]

I think he. I forgot. It's like a Sabonis something. But like the question is like how.

[Judah]

Like, you know, like how many people.

[Lyle]

Are there like that where they just like never made it to the NBA because of some like miscellaneous reason. But we're like more talented than anybody there. Yeah, well, comedy's a little weird because it's. The talent is also objective. Yeah. You know, and people, different people are kind of for different audiences and. Yeah, well, I think it's like that about art though too. Like, I don't think art's about like talent. I think it's about moments like I think anyone can shine in their moment, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's about. And momentum is also about, literally about. About moments. Like there's moments where Leonardo DiCaprio will be the worst actor in the world. There's moments where some guy from like getting a BFA could, could be like more the most talented act just in that specific moment. Right? Yeah. Like it all just clicks and it just comes together. Are you having fun in life? Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I'm having fun. I think like staying busy is like the most fun that I have. Oh, yeah. If you don't stay busy youy'll start to ask questions you were never meant you are you. You got to hear your own voice.

[Judah]

That's the.

[Lyle]

That's the scariest. That's the scariest medium. Well, shit, Sanjay, it was good talking to you.

[Judah]

Great talking to you too, man.

[Lyle]

You want to say to the people, the computer before we go, you guys should follow me on my stand up comedy account. It's called Sanjay does stand up. S A N J A Y does stand up. Beautiful. Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing you around the universe. I'm looking forward to you selling more tickets than me when I got on snl. We'll see what happens. Yeah. Take care, man. Great to talk to you, man.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Lyle]

21/ Terms and Conditions apply. Hello there. Have a seat. What is. What is your name?

[Rachel]

I'm Rachel.

[Lyle]

Rachel, nice to meet you. What's up? How's life? What's going on?

[Rachel]

So yesterday I learned that my friend is a kleptomania.

[Lyle]

Oh, interesting. For those who don't know what that is. A klepto. And I think I know what it is. A kleptomaniac is somebody who is addicted to stealing.

[Rachel]

Yeah, he's banned from Canada apparently, which sucks because I live in Canada, but yeah, he just. Like. I've been friends with him for a couple weeks, and he just told me that he likes to steal things.

[Lyle]

What kind of things?

[Rachel]

Really random things like caution tape and just like, little knickknacks, but nothing that valuable.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Rachel]

But he gets off on it.

[Lyle]

How long have you been friends with this guy?

[Rachel]

Three weeks.

[Lyle]

Three weeks. How'd you guys meet?

[Rachel]

We met in front of the comedy shop.

[Lyle]

What's the. What's the comedy shop?

[Rachel]

I was that in on Bleecker Street.

[Lyle]

Oh. Oh. I didn't know there was a. Is that a new comedy club?

[Rachel]

I'm not sure. I've only been here for a little while.

[Lyle]

Okay, so you met a friend outside of a comedy shop, and then when he told you he was a kleptomaniac, did that make you look at him differently?

[Rachel]

I got a little scared. I'm like, do I want to invite this guy over, right? Or should I. Should he be just like an outside friend?

[Lyle]

Has he stolen anything from you in the Time that you've.

[Rachel]

Not that I know of.

[Lyle]

But I guess it would be. I guess from. From the way you've described this guy, it sounds like if he were to steal things from you, it would be things you wouldn't even notice were gone.

[Rachel]

Like, it'd be like my floss.

[Lyle]

I was literally going to say floss.

[Rachel]

Yeah. My gums would get so bad, I wouldn't know why.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Do you have any. Okay. Do you own anything that you think is in that rung of, like, not importance, but is important to you?

[Rachel]

Like, that I would notice is gone or that I would.

[Lyle]

Yeah, yeah. Things that, like, are kind of objectively seen as not important, but that you would find important.

[Rachel]

My cheese grater.

[Lyle]

Oh, that's a great answer. Yeah. So if this guy stole your cheese grater, friendship over.

[Rachel]

Well, like, I would know how many.

[Lyle]

Oh, wait, let me ask you this. All right. So you've been friends with this guy for three weeks?

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Although, how many. How often have you hung out with him in those three weeks?

[Rachel]

Well, I've seen him three times or four times, maybe.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

We went to do improv together, which was fun.

[Lyle]

How fast? How fast? Until. Because I gotta say, like. Like, he's your friend. Like. Like how. That was a fast declaration. You know how fast I know someone. Become friends.

[Rachel]

People normally say acquaintance.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

But I just, like, skip over that.

[Lyle]

I like.

[Rachel]

I like that, like, we're friends now. Like, you can come over if you want. I'll make you tea.

[Lyle]

I feel like you feel like we. Like this. This was enough interaction for us to be labeled friends.

[Rachel]

Probably not. The more I think about it, I.

[Lyle]

Don'T think so either.

[Rachel]

Like, what does it take to be friends? Like, what do you think?

[Lyle]

I feel like if you and I inhabited the same space regularly over a somewhat extended period of time and throughout that period of time had extended amounts of conversations or, you know, hung out either in a group or as one on one. We would then develop a friendship. But this is not, I don't think, long enough for us. So I have to come back, become friends. So you have to come back? Yeah, I guess in order for us to be friend. For us to be friends. Although, actually, I'll say, actually, you know what? The guy at the very beginning who, like, I saw him over there and he had like, the.

[Rachel]

The table.

[Lyle]

The table. If I saw him again, I would be like, yo, that's my boy. Although if I saw you here at.

[Rachel]

This park again, you probably wouldn't recognize me because I look like maybe.

[Lyle]

Maybe I Was like a brown. I'm like, hey, yo, I remember you. We talked. What's your name? I still actually don't know your name. What's your name?

[Rachel]

Rachel. Rachel, what's your name?

[Lyle]

Lyle. Lyle. So are you gonna continue to be friends with this person?

[Rachel]

I waited a little too long, so probably, like, it's gonna be a distant friend.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

Like, I'll go do improv or if we're in a group setting. But he's not. He's not getting, like, an invite over for, like, a dinner party.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Type situation.

[Lyle]

So are you a comedian?

[Rachel]

No.

[Lyle]

What were you doing outside of a comedy club?

[Rachel]

So my friends on Love Island.

[Lyle]

And your friend is on love.

[Rachel]

On Love Island. And I don't have. At the time, I didn't know that my roommate had Peacock, which is a streaming service that Love Island's on.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

So I just left a date, and I was walking somewhere else to take the subway home, and I pass by and they have a big screen every night showing Love Island.

[Lyle]

Who's your friend that's on Love Island?

[Rachel]

Elon.

[Lyle]

I don't watch Love Island. Ela.

[Rachel]

Elon.

[Lyle]

Elon.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

What does she look like?

[Rachel]

He.

[Lyle]

What does he look like?

[Rachel]

Jewish looking. He's got a fro. Yeah.

[Lyle]

Are you also Jewish?

[Rachel]

I'm also Jewish. What are you doing for Shabbat?

[Lyle]

What am I doing for Shabbat? It's not. I don't really do stuff for Shabbat. I just like. What are you doing for Shabbat?

[Rachel]

I just got invited, like, an hour ago to a rooftop.

[Lyle]

For Shabbat?

[Rachel]

For Shabbat.

[Lyle]

Wait, really? Where?

[Rachel]

You want to come?

[Lyle]

Maybe. Yeah. Where is it?

[Rachel]

It's a. So it's at this guy's apartment, and it has a really good view of the Williamsburg Bridge.

[Lyle]

Wait, actually, I actually kind of do want to.

[Rachel]

You could be my plus one.

[Lyle]

Wait, really? Are you serious?

[Rachel]

A hundred percent.

[Lyle]

Okay. I. I'm actually kind of down.

[Rachel]

I think that'd be awesome.

[Lyle]

It's Williamsburg. Okay, well, we'll talk. We can talk after.

[Rachel]

I just don't want to peep the address.

[Lyle]

We can talk after. Okay, so for real, what was the theme of your bot myth? I.

[Rachel]

Mine was like, you know, I'm not like the other Jewish girls. I didn't want the big party, so I just had, like, three limos. You know, really casual. And.

[Lyle]

Yo, I know exactly what your house looks like.

[Rachel]

Really?

[Lyle]

Yeah. I feel like just by you saying that, I know exactly what the interior of your house looks like.

[Rachel]

Okay, tell me about it.

[Lyle]

I can't, like, visually describe. I can't, like, describe it.

[Rachel]

Are you just trying to come see my house?

[Ryan Seacrest]

House?

[Lyle]

No, I'm just not. Not like. No. Like, the house you grew up in, I assume. Did you. Did you grow up in a Jewish neighborhood?

[Rachel]

I did, but are we talking, like, I lived in one house until I was five and then another one from, like, five on. So which one we talk about here?

[Lyle]

I guess the five on one.

[Rachel]

Good choice.

[Lyle]

You actually have three limos at your bat Mitzvah.

[Rachel]

I did.

[Lyle]

Well, tell me more about your bat mitzvah.

[Rachel]

What else going on? It was kind of interesting because at the time, like, I could only be in one limo. You can't put me in all limos.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Rachel]

So you knew the girls and the people in my limo were my fucking favorite people.

[Lyle]

Oh, no. Did that make the people in the other limos feel bad?

[Rachel]

I feel like they were a little dumb because they're, like, 12.

[Lyle]

Okay, so they. But, like, maybe everyone you invited, at least somebody that you liked or did you have any, like, forced invites?

[Rachel]

No, no forced invites. No, it was. It was only 45 people, so it's all people that I liked or that were more of my acquaintances, but my core people were in my limo.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Do you do a lot of, like, stuff for the Jewish holidays?

[Rachel]

No.

[Lyle]

And me either.

[Rachel]

Although I'll say, except tonight for Shabbat.

[Lyle]

I actually. I am in for tonight for Shabbat. Sounds fun.

[Rachel]

But you got, like. Are you gonna keep. You gonna change? Are you gonna put on a keeper?

[Lyle]

I'll put on a keeper. Yeah. But keep.

[Rachel]

Keep the fit.

[Lyle]

I keep as. I gotta fit on this.

[Rachel]

We can get you a big keeper.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

I know.

[Lyle]

Find a big enough keeper. I'd be down, but I was gonna say, do you? I don't. They don't. Do women do Tefillin? No, because I'm always getting clocked by, like, if I'm walking around Williamsburg, like, I always get clocked by the Tefillin dudes. Do you? Do you? I guess. Talking about.

[Rachel]

No.

[Lyle]

Like, when you walk around Williamsburg, like, if you're a guy and you look Jewish enough, like. Like, an orthodox Jewish guy will come up to you and be like, have you prayed today?

[Rachel]

I mean, someone once stopped me on the street and gave me candles.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Is that what it feels like?

[Lyle]

It's like that.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Do they. Do they. Do they ask you if you were Jewish?

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Yeah. How do they. How do they do it?

[Rachel]

They can smell us. I smell like a filter fish.

[Lyle]

Could you. Could you tell that I'm Jewish.

[Rachel]

Like, I assumed, but I didn't want to, like, assume wrong, so I just didn't say anything.

[Lyle]

You assumed I was Jewish before I said anything?

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

What, what made you feel that way?

[Rachel]

You're just, like, super weird.

[Lyle]

You know, I, I, I appreciate that. I take that.

[Rachel]

Like, I'm also super weird.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

So that's how I knew.

[Lyle]

What is super weird about you? Wow.

[Rachel]

Trying to think about the difference between weird and cool.

[Lyle]

You don't have to think about that. Okay. You can just tell the. Whatever. Yeah.

[Rachel]

Oh. When I match with someone on a dating app and get to know them, my first thing is I suggest a call. People are really thrown off.

[Lyle]

I do the same thing.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Yeah. After a few messages, I'm like, I, After a few messages, I'll be like, hey, would you actually want to do a video chat?

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Because on a, because like, you can only. I think it's, it's good for a few reasons, is it's very efficient. It's efficient for both you and the other because neither you nor the person you're talking to wants to spend a whole fucking evening of their life with.

[Rachel]

Somebody who has a really weird voice.

[Lyle]

Who has a really annoying voice. Yep. Or look looks different from their photos. See, the, the, the video chat is like for both ends. It's. I get to go, hey, here's what I look like today. Here's what I sound.

[Rachel]

I have a question for you.

[Lyle]

Here's a little bit of what, here's like a preview. And if, and after this little low effort preview. 15 minutes. I'm keeping it to 15 minutes. I'm on my couch. She's on her couch. We don't have to leave. We don't have to spend any money. We don't have to do anything. And then if, if the vibe is good, we upgrade it to an in person meet.

[Rachel]

So during the call.

[Lyle]

Yes. Are you, Am I in the suit?

[Rachel]

Are you decked out?

[Lyle]

I'm not gecked out, but occasionally.

[Rachel]

Did you say gecked out? Yeah, like, gecked out.

[Lyle]

Yeah, I like that. Did you just come up with that gecko?

[Rachel]

Did you just say that for the first time? The geck dough.

[Lyle]

That's kind of how I refer to, like, being in the costume.

[Rachel]

That's cool.

[Lyle]

Fuck. What the hell was I gonna say?

[Rachel]

Talking about being on the couch.

[Lyle]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, it's been, it's, it's. I've very much enjoyed the pre.

[Rachel]

Yeah. You don't waste anyone's time.

[Lyle]

Also, like If I'm on a first date, it requires a lot of energy, I think, to go on a first date.

[Rachel]

Not if it's with the right person, to be honest. I think the right, A good date with the right person should give you energy.

[Lyle]

I quasi agree with that. I think however, my energy is half, you know, I'm not gonna put like a full number to it. I won't say half. But part of how I, how I. Part of my energy is. Yes, you're right. How the other person energy is. And then part of it is just like how I'm feeling. And I think like to go on a date and like, you know, like if I'm going on a date and I like, you know, care, it's like, you know, I'm throwing all my best stories out there. I'm like, I'm like try. I'm attempting to channel like, okay, I have a strong range in my personality.

[Rachel]

Tell me more.

[Lyle]

Like I'm a wet. Like under certain conditions. Under certain conditions, I'm the coolest, funniest, most charismatic guy ever. Like under certain phases of the moon, certain amounts of like vyvanse or coffee or like how my day was feeling. Okay. Like I can reach that pinnacle. And then I can also be like just, just like dreadful to be around and just be like, like very socially awkward and have no energy, extremely timid and extremely like depressed or anxious, you know. And it's like I have a strong range, you know, and I feel like if I'm on a first date, you know, and I care, whatever, I'll attempt to chill. Attempt. I mean, actually I feel like where I land on any given day in that range is actually something that feels out of my control in many ways. In many I've attempted to solve for X. How, in what conditions do I feel the most energized? Energized.

[Rachel]

When do you feel the Most energized?

[Lyle]

Around 2pm on a day that I took my Vyvanse at 10am on a day where I'm around other people and you know, in settings like, I feel very energized by settings like these, you know, where I'm around other people in life and stuff. Like right now I feel extremely energized. But you know, if, whatever, if I just got back, if I just like, if it's like 10pm And I smoked a bunch of weed and I felt like shit all day, I'm not gonna be energized, you know. So I have a strong range in my energy, but I Don't. So again, I just went on a whole rant. But I think doing a call is not weird. I think people appreciate it. I think a call is good. So let me ask you this. Okay. So you do a call.

[Rachel]

Yep.

[Lyle]

How many, mathematically, how many of your calls have resulted in, like, in person meetups?

[Rachel]

Maybe 50%. Some calls have been very weird.

[Lyle]

In what way?

[Rachel]

One guy had like a dog named Chicken, and he brought his dog on the call and he's like, look, chicken can howl. And then he's like, makes a noise at chicken and chicken starts howling. And then a lot of the times, this is the weird thing.

[Lyle]

Okay, wait, wait, wait. Before you get into that, you did not like when he made the chicken howl because you. You. You proudly identified as weird. And so I assumed you.

[Rachel]

It was weird, but in that moment I was like, okay, it's weird, but I can get like. It's kind of like a quirk. It's not a deal breaker.

[Lyle]

Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

[Rachel]

The deal breaker was. Here's an interesting thing.

[Lyle]

Yeah, I.

[Rachel]

With guys that I'm talking to, it's kind of a tell that I'm not that into them. I'll suggest we, like, look at each other's matches, because don't you ever want to, like, know what your competition is?

[Lyle]

Why. Why is that a tell that you're not that into them? Because I have a different perspective on that.

[Rachel]

Maybe it's not a tell, but maybe it's like, it's a little bit more on the I don't care side, which comes out more when you're not interested.

[Lyle]

Why is that on the I don't care? Okay, I'll. Here's what I think is, like, I think that, like, when you're like, oh, let me see your matches, or like, let me see your conversation, I think that's very vulnerable. You know, like, that's a vulnerable thing to, like, show.

[Rachel]

Is it vulnerable because you're just showing, like, all the attention you get from other people?

[Lyle]

I don't know. I think that, like, depends on the guy.

[Rachel]

Like, if it's someone who doesn't have a lot of matches, then maybe it's not the best look. But if it's someone who has a lot of matches, then maybe I think.

[Lyle]

That, like, there's something. It's like there's vulnerability within those conversations. And also, look, there is vulnerability in, like, the thing that you're. What I think, if I understand, if I correctly understand the reason why you believe it is a tell that you're not that interested. That same reason, if I correctly understand it, would be to me a display of vulnerability. And I think displays of vulnerability bring people closer together. I. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but with.

[Rachel]

What you just said, I agree that it brings people together, but for people who are truly afraid of vulnerability, it almost like it can pull someone towards you because they're like, wow, like you're really vulnerable and that's cool. And I want to be more vulnerable, so I'm going to come closer.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

But then some people, it's like, wow. I don't know what that is because I, I was like taught to be tough. So vulnerability scares me and it can make people leave.

[Lyle]

Interesting. So it's a litmus test in that sense.

[Rachel]

It's a litmus test of how comfortable someone is with being uncomfortable.

[Lyle]

Okay, so 50% of these phone calls ended in, in person things. Okay. So did you have any other weird phone calls besides the guy making his dog bark?

[Rachel]

I'm sure I have.

[Lyle]

Did you meet up with the dog bark guy?

[Rachel]

No.

[Lyle]

How soon into meeting someone, whether it's on a phone date or a real date, can you instinctively tell whether or not you like them?

[Rachel]

I would say within five minutes, if not less.

[Lyle]

Okay, and after five, after five minutes. Okay, let's say like. All right. Right now I'm hovering my hand here for those listening on audio. If I, if, if I'm up here. Okay. There's like, there's neutral, right? Yeah. Okay. So does it take you five minutes to go from neutral to I don't like them versus can it take you five minutes to go from neutral to I like them or, or do you know, do you get what I'm asking you?

[Rachel]

No.

[Lyle]

Okay. Like, because you can very clearly. Okay. I guess what I'm asking you is you can pretty easily tell if you don't like someone within five minutes. So there's just five minutes enough time for you to tell if you do actively like someone. You know what I'm saying now?

[Rachel]

So I'm, I'm a different case.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

When I decide that I like someone, I almost immediately like, once I've decided it's done, they have to like, be really fucked up, dude.

[Lyle]

I think that's. Yeah. That's the thing about a lot of dates is like, I don't know if I'll put a gender on it. But, like, I think like, maybe I will. Like, for God. I think for a lot of guys is like, a date is like, it's only your game to lose.

[Rachel]

Can you explain that?

[Lyle]

Like what you just said, if I like someone, it's done. Right. So it's like when, when I say, like it's only your game to lose. It's like I assume when you like someone, it's done. Unless if they actively do something that.

[Rachel]

Is like very honestly, they could actively do something weird.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

But it has to be like really, really up.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

Like they have to kill someone.

[Lyle]

Really? That's it.

[Rachel]

Like once. The times that I've decided about someone.

[Lyle]

Huh.

[Rachel]

And I was so confident. Except like maybe once or twice. They're the ones that have have to end it.

[Lyle]

And you made that decision in five minutes. What information did you have? What information?

[Rachel]

Okay, maybe not five, maybe not five. Hanging out together once.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Rachel]

And then I've decided.

[Lyle]

Sure. What information did you do you gather that makes you like someone or not like someone?

[Rachel]

It's honestly a lot of it's energy.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Rachel]

Are they confident? Do they know who they are? Do you feel safe around them?

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Rachel]

And then there are certain things just like icks about their voice. Like do they have a really weird voice or do they have any really intense views on things?

[Lyle]

Sure. Is there anything else that you.

[Rachel]

I have things to share.

[Lyle]

Do you do? Yeah. Is there anything else you want to share? Do you feel, do you feel satisfied with this conversation or is there anything that you would want?

[Rachel]

Well, how are you feeling?

[Lyle]

I feel pretty good. I feel like, I feel like this was a good hour and 50 minutes for me. I started today, I was like taking phone calls. That's how I normally do this podcast. But I was doing that for 20 minutes and I was like, I can't do it anymore. I have to go outside. And so now I am here.

[Rachel]

I've, I've something much better than it went better than you thought.

[Lyle]

I feel like it much better went much better than I thought.

[Rachel]

So I have a hot take.

[Lyle]

Hot take.

[Rachel]

And let me know what you think.

[Lyle]

Go crazy.

[Rachel]

In New York, the coolest things are either downstairs or upstairs.

[Lyle]

I, I, I like that hot take. I think if you go down a flight of stairs for something, it's cool.

[Rachel]

Like comedy cellar cool. Smalls cool.

[Lyle]

What is Smalls?

[Rachel]

The jazz club.

[Lyle]

Oh, I've never been there.

[Rachel]

Damn. I'm sure there's more.

[Lyle]

I agree with that.

[Rachel]

And upstairs is cool too.

[Lyle]

I, I prefer a downstairs than an upstairs, but upstairs is cool. It means you. Oh, there's the fucking. Yeah, there he is. I love that guy. Okay, if you were only listening on audio, there's a guy who rides around town balancing a Tire on his head and he just drove by and I got really.

[Rachel]

So, like, what's your dinner party trick that you're gonna pull out at the Shabbat dinner tonight?

[Lyle]

Oh, shit. What's my dinner party trick that I'll pull out of the Shabbat dinner tonight? Maybe I'll bring a pen and I'll be like, do you want to play? I'm thinking of like, something quirky I can do. I can be like, I'll bring a pen and be like, hey, do you want to play Tic tac toe on my arm? No. That's weird, right?

[Rachel]

No.

[Lyle]

Okay, well, what's your party trick? Do you have one?

[Rachel]

My party trick? I can balance a broom on my finger, but I feel like a lot of people could do that.

[Lyle]

A lot of people cannot do that.

[Rachel]

They can't.

[Lyle]

No.

[Rachel]

I'm a good dancer.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

I. I can sing. I can like, crack out some Amy Winehouse.

[Lyle]

Is there anything that I. I should be prepared for for this Shabbat dinner tonight? Like, do I need to bring something?

[Rachel]

I don't know, like, that's the one thing. Like, I'm an adult now and I know you're supposed to bring things to dinner parties. Okay, but, like, what's the rule on that? If you get invited after 3:30pm and the party's at 7:30, like, are you exempt?

[Lyle]

I. I think we'll probably be fine. Who invited you?

[Rachel]

Some. Some person.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

It's his birthday tomorrow.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rachel]

We could like go havesies on some flowers maybe.

[Lyle]

Oh, you know, we could do. We could bring champagne. No, I was gonna say we should bring rainbow cookies.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

It's a very Jewish food.

[Rachel]

Or like rugala.

[Lyle]

You know, it's like. It's like a little like bites of cake with rainbow and like those, Those.

[Rachel]

Are always a hit.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Do you know? Do you know I'm talking about that?

[Rachel]

But I feel like most of the Jewish places are closed right now.

[Lyle]

We get black and white cookies. Yeah, that could be cool. Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?

[Rachel]

No.

[Lyle]

You really? Nothing? You don't have anything? Oh, there he is again. I love this guy. I'm gonna give him a dollar. What? You have nothing. Anyone said you don't have to. It's up to you.

[Rachel]

Yeah, I actually have something to say.

[Lyle]

Hit me.

[Rachel]

But I wanna. Can I look? Look it up. Do I have a second?

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Lyle]

Wait, what do you. Where are you. Are you. Is it like something from the Internet or something?

[Rachel]

It's A name of something.

[Lyle]

Oh, sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. You have a promote. You have something you want to promote?

[Rachel]

Yeah, but it's not for me.

[Lyle]

Okay, who's it for?

[Rachel]

It's a friend. Okay, well, I met him once.

[Lyle]

You have so much. You probably have so many friends, man.

[Rachel]

Give me one second.

[Lyle]

What do we know? Okay. Can I ask you what. What is the thing?

[Rachel]

He. He made a book.

[Lyle]

Oh.

[Rachel]

And it's a really cool book. I think he would honestly be a really cool person for you to interview.

[Lyle]

Cool.

[Rachel]

It's. I think it's called Questions. I don't want to get it wrong, but I think it's called Questions for Humanity or Questions Something. Humanity. And he went around the world and he asked people. If you could ask one question to humanity, any question, what would you ask? And it's a mix of he took pictures for the book of the people he met along the way, and he included what their answers were. And he sometimes goes on the street and asks people. And I just think that that's a really cool book and really cool.

[Lyle]

Hello. Oh, wait, wait. We're almost done. We're almost done. And then we can then. And then I'll tell you all about it. Wait. Oh, yes. We were just talking about you guys.

[Rachel]

Do you have some to fill in for us?

[Lyle]

Oh, wait. Oh, wait. Okay. All right. That is actually. That is actually extremely. Okay, I'm gonna give some context for the audio listeners. Okay. So earlier I was just talking about how occasionally, as I'm walking through Williamsburg, a Jewish gentleman will clock me that I am Jewish and ask me to do the tefillin. And that. That just happened. Okay. Can I do it off? Can we. Can I do it afterwards?

[Rachel]

You should do it in the frog suit.

[Lyle]

Can I do it? I'll do it. Can I do it after we're done? Be something cool. No, sorry, I want to just finish up, but I'll do it afterwards on camera. Oh, let me. Let me finish real quick. And then we'll. We'll do it. Okay. Okay, cool. Okay. What was the thing you wanted to. You wanted to talk about?

[Rachel]

Drop his name.

[Lyle]

Drop. Drop the name of the thing. We're in. We're in. Big post game podcast right now. We got to end this thing. It's too. Here we go. Okay, what hit us with the self promotion.

[Rachel]

So it's not for me, but it's for.

[Lyle]

I guess it's not self promoting promotion. Hit us with the friend promotion.

[Rachel]

It's called Questions to Humanity and it is a coffee table book that has questions this friend of mine went around the world and asked different people if they could ask humanity one question, what would they ask? And he took pictures of them. And it's just a really interesting project, so you should check it out. And also I will drop my Instagram. Instagram it is Rachel Himmel. R A C H E L H I M M E L this was fun.

[Lyle]

Come on Rachel. Nice to meet you. Thank you very much for talking to a gecko. This has been being a gecko in the park in real life. This was great. What a fun day talking to people. If you're listening to this, it's over now. Go outside. Go if go, leave. Go. Go outside.

[Rachel]

Touch some grass.

[Lyle]

Touch some grass. Do something with your life or not. You don't have to. You don't ever have to do anything. Subscribe or don't do something or don't do something.

[Rachel]

Call your mom. Tell her you love her.

[Lyle]

Geck. Bless you all. Thanks for watching. I'll see you again at another time and place on the Internet or in the afterlife. Okay, bye everyone. Thank you very much for watching.

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