“I’M HAVING AN AFFAIR”

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Therapy Gecko – “I’M HAVING AN AFFAIR”

Date: April 15, 2026
Host: Therapy Gecko (Lyle)
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

Episode Overview

In this remarkably candid episode, Therapy Gecko (Lyle, in his signature green gecko persona) takes live calls from two guests dealing with complex life dilemmas. The first, "Lily," is a 27-year-old grappling with marital dissatisfaction and family expectations after engaging in an extramarital affair. The second caller, "Jeff" from Hong Kong, explores identity issues, the fallout of changing careers from lifestyle journalism to charity work, and universal themes around validation and self-worth. Throughout, the conversations are honest, empathetic, direct, and marked by memorable moments of emotional clarity and humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Call 1: Lily – “I’m Having an Affair”

[03:17–27:57]

Lily’s Story and Dilemma

• Married a year ago after an on-and-off three-year relationship; her husband had previously cheated on her.
• Lily’s ex-boyfriend (now also married) remained in her life, and they both restarted an affair, primarily driven by mutual marital dissatisfaction.
• Lily feels obligated to stay in her marriage due to her family's strict Catholic values and the financial support they've provided (wedding costs, moving expenses).
• Her husband is currently deployed; they have no children together.
• Lily struggles with guilt, disappointment, and fear of letting her family down, especially as her mother uses language that frames support as transactional.

Host’s Approach and Commentary

• Lyle takes a notably direct and firm stance, emphasizing the lack of genuine reasons for Lily to remain in a deeply unsatisfying relationship, especially given her lack of children and emotional detachment.
  • Quote:
    "This is just... This is an open and shut case right now. It's just. This is like an open and shut case. There is no reason whatsoever at all for you to be in this marriage." (10:25)
• He forcefully questions the real benefit of staying together, dismissing the idea that parental disappointment should dictate the course of her adult life.
  • Quote:
    "Who gives a fuck what your parents think? ...You must have been raised in like, a... There must have been something going on with your parents where, like, they conditioned you to feel this way or something like that, because this is wild." (10:25-11:57)
• When Lily reveals more about her upbringing—strict Catholic household, pressure to conform to the “male gaze,” emotional abuse, and constant criticism—Lyle empathizes but continues to highlight the irrationality of living to appease parental expectations at such tremendous personal cost.

Family Dynamics: The Debt Collector Mentality

• Lily explains her family’s transactional behavior, especially her mother’s tendency to frame every act of support (like paying for the wedding) as a lifelong obligation.

  • Lily:
    "It's just when your family acts like a debt collector instead of actually being there for your daughter." (24:41)

• Lyle strongly refutes this logic, insisting that parental gifts should be given out of love—not as a contract of eternal gratitude.

  • Quote (Lyle):
    "You don't pay for your daughter's wedding. You pay for your daughter's wedding because you love them and you want to help them out... They're not making you sign a contract, work paying for your wedding so that you can never get divorced, even if you're unhappy." (21:50–22:03)
  • Follow-up:
    "That's an insane mentality... And you should feel free as a 27-year-old adult woman to leave a marriage that's making you unhappy, than not to stay in it because of what your parents will think. Like, that's just completely insane." (23:13, 24:15)

Lily’s Realization

• By the end of the call, Lily feels validated and lighter, expressing gratitude for hearing a perspective outside her family’s rigid confines.

  • Lily:
    "You have no clue how much that just made me feel like 10 times lighter. I'm not even kidding you. Every time I talk to somebody, they think anybody in my family thinks, oh well, I'm so ungrateful." (24:15)

• She encourages other listeners not to feel trapped by circumstance or others’ opinions.

  • Lily:
    "You're never stuck in what you're doing... If you can get out, get out and go see the world, please." (27:35)

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2. Call 2: Jeff – “Identity, Friendship, and Changing Careers”

[30:32–77:16]

Jeff’s Background

• Hong Kong native (“Hong Kongese”), educated in international schools with English as his primary language, but struggles with reading/writing Cantonese and sometimes feeling “not local enough.”
• Former lifestyle journalist and Hypebeast editor, enjoyed a high-status job with frequent perks (free meals, luxury travel, tech gifts, interviews with celebrities).

Career Shift and Identity Crisis

• Left journalism after burnout and mental health struggles, now works for a charity helping underprivileged youth find hospitality jobs.
• Experienced a “reality check” as industry friends and PR contacts abruptly stopped communicating once he was no longer valuable to them (“chasing everyone going, ‘please give us a chance’” [49:31]).
• Grapples with the distinction between genuine friendships and transactional relationships (“Were they ever friends?” [48:26]).

Therapy Gecko’s Take: Trust and Self-Worth

• Lyle normalizes and reframes Jeff's experience, suggesting that the key is not to become guarded or cynical but to consciously choose how and whom to trust—accepting some fallout as a trade-off for being open.

  • Quote:
    "Do you want to be a trusting person? Do you want to take people at face value? Okay, then just do it... And then you do it. And then you accept whatever the perceived consequences are of that” (54:32)

• Lyle shares his own philosophy about managing limited emotional bandwidth, maintaining a select circle of people whose opinions matter, and letting go of “the chat”—the collective noise of other people's perceptions and criticisms.

  • Quote:
    “I take everyone at face value and I take a lot of the world at face value... Decide how you want to be and then just be it, right?” (54:32)
  • “The chat is sort of like the world, not the actual literal stream chat. ...remind myself, don’t look at the chat.” (59:23–59:43)

Notable Moment: The “Don’t Look at the Chat” Tattoo

• Jeff credits Lyle’s advice for helping him calm anxiety about others’ opinions, revealing he has “Don’t look at the chat” tattooed on his hand as a daily reminder.
  • Jeff:
    “And every time I start spiraling into, like, oh, my God, what do people think of me?... I remind myself, ‘don’t look at the chat.’” (59:57)
  • Lyle’s Reaction:
    “Get the fuck out of here. You have a tattoo that says, ‘don’t look at the chat’ that you got from the podcast. ...I love that. Wow.” (59:50–60:20)

Inner and Outer Worlds: Stoicism and Reality

• Jeff raises the philosophical debate about happiness being internal or external. Lyle reflects on the limits of stoicism, noting the importance of external reality (environment, habits, community) to his own sense of peace.

  • Lyle:
    “I’d love to submit myself to the stoic belief that, like, everything is internal, but I don’t think that’s a full truth because I do think... internal peace is based off external reality.” (67:07)

• He encourages focusing on things and people that truly matter, while not spreading oneself thin emotionally, warning against existential numbness, but also against letting “the chat” (external noise) dominate one’s decisions.

Jeff’s Closing Thoughts

• Jeff echoes the “Don’t look at the chat” mantra, and invites Lyle to visit Hong Kong, expressing gratitude (“We love you” [76:46]).

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Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lyle to Lily:
  “There is no reason whatsoever at all for you to be in this marriage.” (10:25)
• On family obligation:
  “That's an insane mentality... Your parents can't act like debt collectors to you. That's fucking insane.” (23:13, 24:59)
• Lily’s catharsis:
  “You have no clue how much that just made me feel 10 times lighter…when your family acts like a debt collector instead of actually being there for your daughter.” (24:15, 24:41)
• On authentic relationships:
  “Were they ever friends?” (48:26)
• On validation:
  “Don’t look at the chat.” (59:23, 75:47)
• Lyle on external vs. internal reality:
  “I think that…so much of internal peace is based off external reality. And I think it’s a disservice to say that you can just…be chill in your own brain. I can’t just do that.” (67:07)
• Summing up the approach to friends and “the chat”:
  “You really gotta whittle down the things and the people whose opinion you care about…There’s so many things and people begging for you to care about them. It’s too much.” (62:19)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------------|----------------------------------------------| | 03:17–27:57 | Lily’s Call: Affair, Marriage, Family Guilt | | 30:32–77:16 | Jeff’s Call: Identity, Career Shift, Self-Worth & “Don’t Look at the Chat”|

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Tone and Style Notes

• The episode features Lyle’s classic blend of wry humor, blunt honesty, and unexpected wisdom.
• Callers are met with empathy, but not coddled—Lyle is unafraid to challenge their narratives and push for clarity.
• The discussions are unfiltered and authentic, full of self-deprecating reflections, references to the internet-age “noise,” and real emotional breakthroughs.
• Memorable quip: “I got to see a doctor, man. It's jet lag.” (77:04)

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Lily’s arc is a raw look at the cost—emotional and psychological—of living for others’ approval, and the immense relief in choosing one’s own happiness.
• Jeff’s journey explores the volatility of social currency, the pain of realizing some relationships are transactional, and the liberating power of deciding whose opinions truly matter.
• The “Don’t look at the chat” mantra stands as a universal lesson about tuning out the world’s noise and focusing on one’s chosen inner circle and values.

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For anyone feeling stuck—in marriage, career, or self-doubt—this Therapy Gecko episode is a compelling testament to the value of self-liberation, honesty, and the courage to put one’s own well-being first.

Transcript

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[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

my Therapy Gecko Live show tour is starting very soon with shows in San Diego, Los Angeles, all over the Pacific Northwest and all over the country, the country of America and like three cities in Canada. You can look at all of the cities and that are available and get tickets right [e-mail] or check the link in the episode description. These shows will be a combination of group gecko therapy sessions with the audience, plus I've got stories of my own that I will be telling from my travels across the universe, interviewing people as a gecko. The shows are always a great time. If you like the podcast, you're going to love the live show. And if you bring friends who have no idea who I am, the show is set up so that they will

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probably like it too.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Go to therapygeckotour.com or check the link in the episode description to get tickets right now. I hope to see you guys there. And with that said, let's get into the episode.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Hello?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Hello?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Is this a therapy gecko?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

This is the therapy gecko. Who is this?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Hi, my name is Lily.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Lily, what's going on, Lily? What's happening?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

I'm kind of in a predicament, to say the least.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

You're in a predicament, to say the least. Do you. I assume that you called me so that we could talk about this predicament?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yes.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Predict me. Hit me. Hit me with the predict. Hit. Hit me with the prediction. Immense.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Okay, so. I've been married to my current partner for about. I would say about three years. Well, we've been on and off for three years. We were dating, and then we just got married about a year ago. My ex kind of came back into my life, but has been there throughout the three years, and he is also married during this entire time.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

And me and him have been off and on, like, pretty off and on, let's just say that. And we both decided to kind of move on with our life, and we got married to separate partners. Now, I didn't think I would hear from him again, and it kind of started to pick up, and I was like, oh, we're just picking up where we left off, I guess. And he's like, yeah, I'm not really happy in my marriage. Are you happy in your marriage? And I'm like, yes and no. I mean, my partner cheated on me, too, so it's kind of like, not like revenge, but I kind of feel like it is.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay. All right. I have multiple questions, but it says you're. It says you're in Japan seeing an affair partner, and he's been ignoring me. So now I am bumming it out in an Airbnb.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Okay. I was in Japan a while back ago. Like, that was almost like three months ago. Yes, that's the same person.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay. Are they Japanese?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yes.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay, so let me get the situation correctly. So you've been married for three years?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yes.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Your husband cheated on you.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yes.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

You forgave him?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Mm.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

And now your ex boyfriend is coming back, and you're having an affair with your ex boyfriend on your husband. The ex boyfriend is also having an affair on his wife?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yes.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay. Where are you right now?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

I'm in Illinois.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay. Where's your husband?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

He is currently deployed.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay. Do you guys have kids together?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

No, we don't.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Why? Oh. If you're not happy in your marriage and you don't have kids together and there's another person you want to be with, why are you still in this marriage?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Because I feel like I have to be, like, an obligation because my family is so strict.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

What?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

I don't know how else to explain it. Like, they just. They feel like if you marry one person, you should be stuck with that person.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

How old are you?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

27.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Did your family arrange this marriage?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

No, but they loved him to death.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

And I feel like I'm going to be, like, a disappointment and, like, let my family down if they find this out.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

What's your name?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Lily.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

All right, I'll break. Here's a few. Okay. So, like, If you're unhappy in your marriage, you really kind of have two options. And especially you don't have kids. It's like, especially if you don't have kids, man. I mean, like, if you're unhappy in your marriage, like, I. It's either, like, you gotta try to work it out, but you don't sound like you even like it. Like, but this is you only really. You only really want to work it out. If you, like, like this guy, but you don't even. Like. You don't even like this guy.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

It was. It was there before, but I feel like some of the things that he did, like, cheat on me and do other stuff behind my back, it kind of deteriorated over time. And then I asked about, like, therapy, and maybe we should consult somebody. And he's the type to never want to do that. So it kind of just bothered me from that point on. And instead of, like, talking to somebody, I ended up talking to my ex about it. And that's where I think things would kind of went south.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Why are you. Why are you in this marriage with a per. There's no. There's no reason for you to be in this marriage. You don't like this guy. You don't have kids that you're staying together for. Like, what are you literally. Are you Being serious that you're literally only doing this because you don't want to disappoint your parents.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Pretty much. Like, they paid for everything. They paid for, like, the wedding. They paid for, like, the move, because we move states. They, like. I just don't want to let my family down, and I feel like I'd be a disappointment because the rest of my family is. Everybody's together, and then there's me.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Listen. Listen. I listen on this podcast. Listen. I hate listen. I really try as hard as possible to not make this, like, a direct advice podcast and just, like, I'm, like, chatting with people, but this is just. This is an open and shut case right now. It's just. This is like an open and shut case. There is no reason whatsoever at all for you to be in this marriage. Like. Like, you're not. You're not even doing a thing of, like, oh, the feelings are complicated, and sometimes it's like this, and sometimes it's like that. And I just can't control, like, you know, like, we're not even getting that. Like, you don't like this person at all. You have no desire to make it work or be with them. What. What are you doing? Just. What. Like, why are you in this marriage? This is. This is. This is. This is crazy. Who gives a. You're. Who gives a fuck what your parents think? This is. That's. That's. I. Listen, I. I'm. I'm. I'll. I'll. I'm on a level with you. You must have been raised in, like, a. For you to be feeling this way. You. There must have been something going on with your parents where, like, they conditioned you to feel this way or something like that, because this is. This is wild. Like, do you. Like, you don't like this guy at all? There's no. There's no reason for you to be in this marriage.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yeah, it's. It's kind of hard.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

What? Okay, all right. Okay, listen. What. All right, let's get into the parents thing. Because, listen, from my perspective, it's. It's ridiculous, but clearly. Clearly it has a emotional hold on you, so we can get into it if you want to. Like, why? What's going on with your parents?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

I kind of just grew up where it's, like, really strict, really, like, Catholic family, to say the least. My mom was kind of abusive a little bit towards me, and I would always have to do stuff, like, to please a guy, if that made sense.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Like, anything I had to do, it had to be like, oh, you have to actually put makeup on. You have to actually try. When you go out, you can't look, like, basically like crap. And it was always, like, for male gaze, like, never for my own, you know? And if it wasn't, like, if I would never get dressed up, she would always kind of put me down. So I feel like with going into the marriage, like, I feel like I was doing everything to be perfect for somebody that I really. I thought I cared for, and then it kind of fell apart.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay, that's fine, by the way. You know, like, that's fine. Like, if you go into a thing with someone and you thought that you. I mean, especially if you don't have kids. Right? And especially if you're not, like, in, like, some. I get that some people are in, like, kind of these crazy scenarios with, like. Like, you know, whatever, like, the kids are involved or, like, significant, like, financial discrepancies are involved, or, like, there's, like, whatever logistical difficulties involved in, like, leaving a relationship. Like, I. Like, I. I get that those things can be difficult, but in this situation, like, is anything like that, in this situation that is preventing you from leaving this marriage?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

I would say financials, too. Financials. And then moving. I. I picked up a lot when I decided to marry this person, and I picked up my entire life to be with them. And then when they hurt me that way, it definitely shifted my mindset because I left my job and I was making somewhat decent money. I was working for the government at this time, and I was making pretty good. And he wasn't doing too much because he was injured. So I felt like I was providing all the money, everything into it, and I feel bad, like, if I was just gonna pull the rug out, too, and all the money that I saved up, you know, and be like, hey, like, now you're on your own. Like, I can't do that to somebody, too. You know?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

What? On your. Wait, your husband. You said your husband's on his own.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yeah, he was injured.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Okay.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Related accident.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

But he's deployed now. He's. Your husband's employed?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yes, currently.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay, so your husband's currently deployed. Your. Your husband has a career with the military.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

No. No. Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay, so it's not even, like. Again, I'm, like, trying to find. And I'm, like, literally trying to find anything. Like, I like that of, like, it's not like, you're, like, even. It's not even a thing of, like, on, like, a financial provider. And, like, what are they gonna do without me? Like, your husband's Employed.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Do you think the best option is just to leave?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Well, yeah, I'm. No, I'm, like, usually I, like, I, for, for, for whatever. Like, I, like, I understand, like, the various emotions and difficulties in life that cause people to do things or stay in relationships they shouldn't be in or whatever. Like, I understand that, and I'm really, like, trying to, like, search in your situation for anything remotely that is that. But if the only thing that you're bringing up is that you don't want to disappoint your parents, it's feeling, it's feeling open and shut.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Okay.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Do you know. Right. Do you, like, I don't. What is the benefit. What is the benefit to you of staying in this? Like, Like, I can't. I can't even make a pros and cons list with you. Like, I can't name a single pro.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

I get to go back home. I feel like that's my pro.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

You get to go back home if you don't divorce your, like, what's the pro of? Not. What is the advantage of. What is the advantage of being in this? Like, what is the blockade of leaving this marriage with this person that you don't like?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

I just think it's. It's something that I built for a little bit, but it was built on, I guess, mistrust and two different things. So I guess nothing. You're right. I mean, there's really nothing holding me back. And I feel like my family has to be. They have to come to terms to it, like, eventually.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Is that I, I, I'm. I genuinely want to know. Is that the main issue that you have?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

I think so. That's all I can really list. I, I did care about him, but we both done things, like I said, to hurt each other, and I feel like it's just not there. I just didn't want to disappoint my family, but it's like they have to get over it, you know?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Does he even. I mean, I'm looking for any, like, just he. Is it even a thing of, like, he really likes you and wants to make it work?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yeah. I mean, he was before he left. Yeah, I could say that he, he put in effort, but I feel like it was, like, guilt, you know what I'm saying? Like, when somebody goes out of their way to do stuff, when they, they did you dirty, like, they hurt you. That's what I kind of got out of that. Like, after I found out, it went all downhill, and he would try to do anything to stay with me. But I felt like everything he was doing was just, like, a facade. Like, it wasn't real at all to me.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yeah. Listen, what's your name again?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Lily.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Lily. Well, Lily, listen, you should talk to a real therapist about all this stuff going on with your family. But if you did want Gecko therapy, perspective. I mean, your family, like. Like, dude, like, I mean. I mean, you're 27, but I mean, like, at. No. Like, what. The whole thing of, like, I'll disappoint your. Your family, it's like, dude, them. What the f. Like, that's like. I don't. Like, that's ridiculous. You know? It's totally ridiculous to, like, stay in a marriage that you don't want to be. Like, what the fuck does your family have to do with, like, you staying in an unhappy marriage for literally no reason? Like, like, let them suck it up.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Okay.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Do you know? Do you. Do you. Do you. Do you. Do you see why that's. I don't want to discount it because clearly, this is like. Again, it's. From my perspective, it's ridiculous, but clearly from your perspective, it's a big thing, and I want. I want to understand why.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Like I said, I just think the way I grew up, it's just a lot of disappointment if I do certain things that aren't in the, like, the right eyes of my family. I. E. Like, they paid for a wedding, and then I turn around and get divorced three years later. It's like, why do they even pay for it? You know?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what? You know what? Them. Because you know what? You don't pay for your daughter's wedding. You pay for your daughter's wedding. Like. Like, okay, yeah, but them. And here's why. Because, listen, it was. Listen, it was nice of your parents to pay for your wedding. This is my. This is really what I believe. This is what I. What I. What I want you to believe, too. Listen, it was nice of your parents to pay for your wedding. And if your parents are gonna do some shit like that, if they're gonna pay for your wedding, they should be doing it because they love you and they want to help you out, and they want to pay for the wedding. They're not doing it because it's not. You're not in a business deal with them.

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You didn't.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

They're. They're not making you sign a contract, work paying for your wedding so that you can never get divorced, even if you're unhappy. Like, that's completely insane, right? Like, that's on them.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

That's how they act. That's.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

And you know what? Yeah, Lily. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No. Yes. How I know how I'm describing it. If that's how they act, that's their fucking problem. That is not your problem, Lily. That is not your problem. That's a fucking insane mentality to have. I'm deeply sorry for you, Lily. I'm very sorry that you have parents that have that kind of like insane mentality. But I want you to recognize if nobody else in your life is telling you this, that that's an insane mentality. It makes no fucking sense. It's like, it's stupid. I'm sorry. Your parents are supposed to be people who like have, have some form of like something that you can, you can trust in and, and look into. And I'm sorry that like they have that mentality, but like I, I just need you to realize if nobody else has told you this, that that is an insane mentality. Your parents should only pay for your wedding if they want to because they want to help you, not because

[Nicotine Cessation Ad Voice]

it's

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

a contract that you can never get divorced if you're unhappy. That's fucking insane. And if your parents say some shit like that to you, them, okay, that like, that's just, that's completely insane. I don't know if anyone else in your life has been telling you this, but like that's, that's just insane. And I get it. You have a relate. Like I'm not, I'm not your parents daughter. I'm not dealing with the giant emotional brunt of it that you have to. But like, just from an outsider perspective, like you. I just need you to know that that is an insane mentality for your parents to have, that you don't have to be responsible for their insane mentality. And you should feel free as a 27 year old adult woman to leave a marriage that's making you unhappy, then not to stay in it because of what your parents will think. Like, like that's just completely insane.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

You have no clue like how much that just made me feel like 10 times lighter. I'm not even kidding you. Every time I talk to somebody, they think anybody in my family thinks, oh well, I'm so ungrateful. I'm this, I'm that. And I'm like, it's not even that. It's just when your family acts like a debt collector instead of actually being there for your daughter.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Like, no, that's insanity.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

I tried to talk to my mom too about it and she's like, you have everything set up for you. Why are you acting so ungrateful? Like, you're such a brat. Like, you had a happy life. Like, why are you gonna throw it away? And I'm like, okay, but if I'm not happy, what am I gonna do? Like, you know, there's a.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

There's a diff. Like, there's a difference, right? Like, in terms of. Like. But it's just for. For specific things like this. Like, your parents paying for your wedding. Like, it's okay for you to get a fucking divorce. Like, it's your life. Like, it. Like your parent. Like, childhood. The childhood is not a thing. And you're like, the gifts that your parents give you. You're supposed to just do that shit because you want to, not because it's a fucking debt that you have to repay. Like, that's insane. Like, you bring a child into the fucking world and you want to help them do these things, but you don't do it as a way to, like, repay. Like, your parents can't act like fucking, like, debt collectors to you. That's fudgeing insane.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

And every time something goes wrong in their life, it always has to be because my job. Hey, can we borrow X, Y, and Z? And I'm like, I should be able to tell you no without you getting mad at me or throwing something back in my face.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yes, of course. Yes.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

There should be no other exception with how I'm feeling.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yes, yes, yes. Please leave this marriage if you're not happy. And if you're not happy in this marriage. And the only reason, again, there's a lot of complicated reasons why people stay in relationships and whatnot. If the only one is that you're afraid of disappointing your parents, please, like, reconcile that. It's completely insane.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Okay, I definitely will. I'm like, I'm sorry. I called in about something else, but I feel like this one, like, this convo went a little bit further, and I feel like I needed to hear that because my family was driving me up the wall.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

And then you can just be with who? I mean. Yeah. I mean, and then you can just be with whoever you want. It doesn't have to be like a. Because you're just. You're. You're. You're tangled up in 8,000 different chords that I is just. I. I don't even know how you like that. That's just. I don't know how you exist like that. Like, that's. This is crazy. You don't. You don't have to tangle yourself on that shit.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

That'd be nice to just kind of do what I want without having other people kind of tell me what to do. So thank you for saying that.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yeah, for sure.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Oh my God.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Is there. Is there anything else you want to say to the people, the computer, before we go?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

You know what? I just want to let people know that you're never stuck in what you're doing. And I know people probably think I'm a bad person right now from what they heard. But trust, if you can get out, get out and go see the world, please.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

All right. Take care, man.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

You too. Bye bye.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Bye bye.

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[Public Investing Platform Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, Completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Hello?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Hey, what's up, homie?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Oh my God, you actually called. Hi.

[Nicotine Cessation Ad Voice]

Hi.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Hello. Hello.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

What's your name?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

What's your name?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

I'm Jeff. I'm Jeff. I'm calling from Hong Kong.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

You're calling from Hong Kong? Are you Hong Kong ease or are you American?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

I am Hong Kongese, but it's quite interesting. We have a lot of international schools in Hong Kong because of our colonial days from the Brits. So I grew up in international schools and that's how I got my accent.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Interesting. Yeah, I'm in Japan right now. I've met a few like, folks who like, grew up in like an international school. And it's basically, my understanding is it's basically like going to like an American high school.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Pretty much. Yeah. We grew up with American movies, you know, American TV shows, American music. Yeah, it's quite. It's sort of that identity crisis you have where I'm not local enough to be. Hong Kong is, you know, considered by the local Hong Kong. But then I'm also not, you know, I'm like ethnically Chinese. So when I'm abroad, people are like, you're Chinese. You know, like, for example, I can't write in my own language.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Wait, can I ask you a dumb question?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Hong Kong is China, right?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Ooh, this can get very political. Officially, according to the Chinese government, yes, Hong Kong is part of China. But we are what we call a special administrative region, which means we have a different sort of legal and government system. So we basically run ourselves in a way.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay, so Hong Kong is different from mainland China?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

I would say yes. Politically, culturally, very different.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Interesting. Do you so, but when you're in America, that what, what's the word? That minutia is irrelevant to people. They're just like, you're Chinese.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah, well, I've actually never been to the States. Interesting. But I studied in London, so I lived in London for seven years, and that's where people sort of go, oh, you're just Chinese. You know, they sort of just. You're just Chinese.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

How did you like living in London? London's a good town.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

I actually thought it was really cool. I loved London. I. I think it fit my culture better because, like I said, you know, I grew up in a very westernized environment, even though I was in Hong Kong. And I feel like I get along with people in the UK better than I do back home here.

[Nicotine Cessation Ad Voice]

Ah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Why is that?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

I don't know. I think it's a cultural thing. Like, I mean, for a start, I express myself much better in English. I would consider English my first language.

[Nicotine Cessation Ad Voice]

Really?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

And so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm actually, you know, part of the reason why I texted you is because I used to be a journalist, and I write exclusively in English, So I'm a writer in English by trade, and I can't write a single Chinese character to save my life. Like, I just can't do it.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

So. Okay. Okay, I'm gonna ask another crazy question. What language do they primarily speak in Hong Kong?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

So Hong Kong people speak, I would say, a dialect of Chinese called Cantonese. So, you know, if you've watched, like, Bruce Lee movies growing up or, like, Jackie Chan movies, those are, like, in Cantonese. That's what we speak in Hong Kong. And then you go to mainland China, and they speak Mandarin, which, for the whole nation of China, is the official language. It's slightly different. I would. I would say it's sort of like Italian and Spanish. You know, they're, like, similar but not identical.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

So. But Canton. Yeah, go ahead.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

But if you speak. So, for example, like, if I speak Cantonese and I cross the border, we have a border into mainland China. Most of the time, we can sort of understand each other, even if we're just speaking our own, you know, dialect.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Hmm. So you can speak Cantonese? Can you write Cantonese?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

No. I tried for a while, and I just gave up because it's just. I never grew up learning Cantonese formally, you know, I just learned how to speak Cantonese via my parents.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Wait, you learned it via your parents? But I thought you grew up in Hong Kong, so wouldn't you just learn it by just existing there?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

So I learned how. Okay. I don't know how to explain this. I learned how to speak via my parents and sort of like, you know, Obviously, the people around me. So speaking is not a problem. I can read it enough so I can sort of read a newspaper or I can go to a restaurant and read a menu, but I can't. Like, it's not at a high level. You know what I mean?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yeah, but like. But that's. That's crazy to me, like, that you are, like. You are Honkinese. You grew up there. Your parents are both. Are your parents both Hong Kongese?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yes, yes. They're both locals and.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay, so they're both local. Your parents are both locals and you grew up there, but you can't fully read and write the language?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah, yeah. It's a. It's a common problem a lot of us international school kids have because we study exclusively English in. In school, they don't really have Chinese lessons. And even if they do, it's. They import like a. Like a UK system for Chinese, so it's tailored to beginners. So I'm sort of at a primary school level. I think this is actually quite interesting as an. As a generational thing. Back when I was in school, so I'm 33 years old, and back was. When I was in primary school or international school growing up, they would actually tell you that you're not allowed to speak Cantonese in school.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Really?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

And I understand it. It's because there's a lot of expat students in school, right? And they didn't want us to exclude the expat kids by speaking Cantonese with each other. But then it's sort of awkward as well, because, you know, I'm Chinese. I have friends in school who are Chinese. We're located in Hong Kong, but we grew up in an environment where they just discouraged the use of Chinese in school. So I never learned it, you know, as a. As a study, you know what I mean? I just sort of picked it up here and there from television, from restaurant menus.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

But then as you move about the world, like when you go to the fucking bank or whatever and you have to read the sign that says, hey, we're the bank, do you. Is that like. So can you do that shit?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yes, I can. I can read. I can read. But it's also funny because Hong Kong, as you know, maybe used to belong to the British, right? And because of that, a lot of systems here still run bilingually on English and Chinese. So we have the option of growing up just entirely filling out every bank form or whatever, only in English, and never having to write a word of Chinese,

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

really. So you can just like, do the Whole country in just English?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Pretty much, yeah. And, and it's quite. I also find it quite weird that actually, you know, in, in Hong Kong, if you take like a cab, the older generation of cab drivers or like the older generation of just people will be pretty good at English because they existed in Hong Kong when it was still a colony. Right. So English was very commonly used, whereas the younger generation now, because we were handed back to China, they study English less. So funny enough, the younger generation don't speak as much English as the older generation. You know, if you go to, I'm sure if you go to Japan or something, you know, the younger people are more sort of, you know, open and more international. Right. But Hong Kong right now at least kind of has this reverse syndrome.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Interesting. I mean. Yeah, that's so, that's fascinating. Yeah. Because in pretty much all foreign countries I've been to, it's the opposite where it's like, yeah, the older generation doesn't really speak English. And the younger generation, I mean, Japan, like, there's English proficiency in Japan in general is not, like, it's not huge, but like, definitely, like, even among the younger people, it's not huge, but like, yeah, you definitely, like, most, most old, older cab drivers here do not speak English. It's fascinating that the older generation in Hong Kong speaks more English than the younger generation.

[Nicotine Cessation Ad Voice]

So that.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay, so. So your. As a 33 year old who experiences the universe in English more than in Cantonese, you don't feel isolated, you don't feel like, oh, I'm like, I don't really. Do you, do you, do you have that feeling where you're like, oh, do I? Where the hell do I fit in in this crazy world?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah. No, honestly, it was an identity crisis. I think it first hit me when I went to university in Hong Kong, because in university, everyone's in university. You know, there's no sort of English international kids university. So you start getting mixed into the, well, you know, locals. Right. And when you try to hang out with the locals, because my Chinese wasn't great, I didn't understand their TV references because I don't watch Chinese TV or I don't watch Chinese movies or, you know, they'll go sing karaoke and I wouldn't know any of the Chinese songs. There was a moment, yeah. In my early 20s where I was like, man, I don't really belong here, or like, they don't really want to hang out with me. And then I ended up having to hang out with the expat, like exchange students. Funny enough, like, they accepted me more and I became one of them. And to the degree that actually during university, my girlfriend was Italian, so we dated for like a good five years. And. Yeah, so, you know, throughout my life, it's always been that. And then I think the other culture sort of clash was when I started working. And, you know, like I said, I used to be a journalist and. But I can only write English. Right. And you can imagine in Hong Kong, where everything is predominantly Cantonese, there's not a lot of English papers or magazines. And so I had this moment of like, man, what am I gonna do? You know, there's like two official magazines in English in Hong Kong, and if I don't get either of them, I'm screwed because I can't write in Cantonese.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

So this kind of brings me to. I'm gonna. I'll go ahead and read your text that you sent me. Oh, yeah, you said, hello, I'm Jeff, and I'm going through a reality check. I used to be a lifestyle journalist and was treated like royalty, and now I'm working for a charity in the same industry, and I have become the one begging others to work with us. It's been quite a slap in the face to see people who you thought were friends turn so quickly on you once you're no longer valuable to them. So. Okay, well, talk about this. What? You were treated like royalty.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah. So you, you know, like those, like, games journalists. Because I listen to your podcast. I know, like, you play video games sometimes, you know, those like game journalists, and they always get like, free, free video games to, like, test out or like, people will send them, like, PCs or like super pro consoles for free.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Sure.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

It was sort of like that where I was a lifestyle journalist and I would get invited to, like, hotel stays, resort stays, all for free. You know, everything's covered. I go to restaurants, like three Michelin star restaurants, you know, which were like a meal there in Hong Kong would set you back maybe like five, six hundred US Dollars.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

And they would treat you to that for free, you know, just because you're a journalist and they want you to write about it and promote it. Right. They want you to talk about it, they want you to review it. You know, they'd fly you out business class to wherever you want, things like that. And, you know, it was just. They would pamper you with everything because you were writing for a reputable magazine or a reputable newspaper, and they wanted the coverage. Right. So that was sort of the life that I was living for the past Maybe like six years.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Mm.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

And then. Yeah, and then it just got a bit tiring because I was out all the time. You know, I would work in the office Monday to Friday, like a regular office job, but then every night I'd have to go dinners and. And events and. At first, it was very glamorous. At first it was like, man, this is awesome. You know, I'm getting all this sounds.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

It sounds sick. Where does it go wrong?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah, yeah, this is.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

This is.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

So I. I've talked to friends about it, which is why I wanted to talk to you about it, because everyone's like, dude, that's awesome. You know, like, you get all this free shit. You know, I. I used to get gaming PCs too, because I used to write for a website called hypebeast. I was an editor at hypebeast. And so they would send me, like, all this free gaming shit and all this free stuff. I'd interview, like, Hollywood stars for, like, Disney and, like, Marvel movies. It was crazy. And so everyone's like, why are you complaining? But eventually it got a bit too much, where I felt like my work just overwhelmed my life. Like, I wasn't living my life anymore. It was, you know, constantly. It was work, work, work, work, work. And I looked around the people around me, and I could see the same with them. You know, they would be working Monday and Friday. Like me, they would go all to these events on weekends and evenings, and it was all just jumbled into one big pile. And then all they post on Instagram is about, you know, which event they went to, which bar they went to, which restaurant they went to. And it all became too much for me. I felt like I was losing my own life. I wasn't tending to the stuff that I needed to do at home or my relationship.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

So. So what? So, okay, what about your life needed tending that was going untended as a result of. Of all of this?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

I think the biggest thing was my mental health. I think my biggest mental. So not to get, like, too grim, but I grew up in sort of, like, an abusive household. And I. For the past 12 years or like, 13 years, I've been on antidepressants, and I have, like, sort of chronic, I guess, depression and anxiety and. And like, when I was 20, I was also diagnosed with borderline. I don't know if you know what borderline is. Yeah. So it's something that I've been dealing with for, like, the past decade. And I feel like during that phase of my life where I was, like, jet setting And. And eating and. And just partying a lot. I stopped doing all the things that used to, like, bring me peace or, like, tend to my mental health. You know, just small things, like even waking up and, like, meditating for five minutes. I was skipping stuff like that, or, like, you know, feeding my cats. You know, I would forget. I would forget to get, like, cat food for my cats, or I would be really, really anxious all the time. And I felt like it also started affecting people around me. Like, I live with my girlfriend, and it started affecting her, too, because I was just anxious all the time about missing that next event or, like, where I have to go or, you know, who I have to talk to, things like that. So my mental health took a dip.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Okay, so tell me about this. This part of your message where you're like, my friends turned on me once I was no longer valuable to them. Who were these friends?

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Right?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

So to be honest, this is. This is part of the question, right, is were they ever friends? You know, I worked in the industry for a while, and when you go out for events and you go out for dinners, you're always with the same other journalists, right, from other circles, other publications, or there's PR people who work for the restaurants or the hotels or whatever. And, you know, you're seeing them a lot, right, because you're going to a lot of these events and you have this connection with them. And I. I would consider myself, like, quite an open, trusting person. Like, what you see is kind of what you get. And I guess in a way, it's a bit naive to think that other people are always like that. So when I'm with these people, I. I'm quite genuine, and I just be myself and. And I feel like, yeah, you know, we get along. We're good friends. You know, they. They laugh, we laugh. We talk about things. You know, we're not like, close friends, but I would consider them friends, you know.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

So how did they start treating you differently once you stopped having this gig?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

You know, I think I just. So I. When life was overwhelming, I decided to leave. And then I joined a charity that I knew for a long time. And this charity is. Is adjacent to what I used to do because they also work with a lot of hotels and restaurants, and they basically help. We call them underprivileged and disadvantaged youths, but, you know, they might be kids, like orphaned youths or, you know, kids with down syndrome, things like that. And we try to find them employment opportunities at these restaurants and hotels, you know, simple tasks, things that they feel Fulfilled, doing, but not overwhelmed. And so we need to work with a lot of restaurants and a lot of hotels, right? And that's when I started reaching back out to these people and saying, hey, you know, it's been a while. I'm working with this charity now. And like, half of them just ghost me to begin with. Like, nobody ever replies. They just completely ghost you. And then some other people start making like, you know, terrible excuses up, like, oh, we're just too busy. Oh, we can't do this, we can't do that. And you sort of follow up on email with them for like a couple months and then they just eventually disappear as well. And it's just a big contrast, you know, from my phone blasted every day from offers of people going, hey, you want to come here? Hey, you want to do this? Hey you. You want to do this with us? To like, now I'm sort of chasing everyone going, hey, please, you know, please give us a chance. You know, give these kids a chance. And just nobody replying, just everyone ghosting me.

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[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

You'll get expert advice, text support and

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[Public Investing Platform Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with you, your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.com disclosures

[Nicotine Cessation Ad Voice]

well,

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

what about like, okay, so you're talking about like your relationships in your personal life, correct? Like, how are those going?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Honestly, starting this job sort of helped with my personal relationships. Like what I really consider my friends or my partner, you know, my girlfriend. Like, I've had more time with family, I'd have more time with friends because I don't have to go to events so much anymore. I get to see my friends more often. So those relationships have strengthened, I feel, which is a great thing. But then there's always that nudging feeling at the back of like, am I too trusting of people? Am I too naive? Did I think we were friends and they never considered me a friend before?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yeah, who cares about that shit, you know? No, I mean it. I. I like, I don't, like, I don't care. I. I don't care about that stuff like that when people are like oh, like am I too trusting? Am I too like just decide how you. I kind of do believe in a sense. And, and I, I probably get fault about. I mean I. This. It's kind of my whole thing that I take everyone at face value and I take a lot of the world at face value and this whole thing of like oh, am I being too trusting? It. That's not the way to think about it. Right. It's like decide how you want to be and then just be it, right? So like, you know, do you want, do you want to be a trusting person? Do you want to take people at face value? Okay, then just do it, right? And then you do it. And then you accept whatever the perceived. Consequences are of that, which really, I mean, also, also kind of decide, like, how much power are you giving a person or an entity to hurt you really? Right? Like, if you, whatever, like, like who are these, like, what can these people really do to you? I mean, think about it from that point of view, right? Like if you, like, let's say you're really nice to some guy and you think he's your friend, and then once you can't get, once you can't get him a nice dinner or whatever the fuck anymore, he stops being your friend. Are you gonna be like, oh, I'm so hurt that this guy is not my friend anymore, or like, like it's just some guy. What's he gonna do to you? You know? I mean, it's different if, like, if you're getting married to someone or it's going into deep business with someone or something like that, something where someone really actually can like, fuck you over very badly, then you wanna like, kind of vet that shit. But like 99.99999% of all people and all interactions, like, who gives a fuck? You know? Yeah, like if, like, like you're like, you know what I mean? Like, like certain, like, really specific roles in your life need to be thought through deeply. Like, am I being true, trusting, like, and even. Dude, fuck even in those roles, right? Like, let's say you're dating someone. Fuck, even in those roles, it's like, let's say you're dating someone or you're in a business owner or whatever, and you're like, whatever, I'm just gonna decide to trust this person. And then you get fucked over. It's like, well, you know, you go to bed at night and you can go, well, I made the decision to be trusting and to put myself out there and whatnot. And I'm okay with that decision and I'm living in the whatever of that decision, but I'm not gonna, like, I just think it's so I don't need to go around being like, oh, is this person a snake? Are they gonna, it's like, who care? What's anyone gonna, you know, do? Like, who, who cares? Do you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah, I do, I do, I do. I, I, I, I understand. You know, sort of. In a way, it's sort of taking back control, right. Of how you feel and not letting people dictate how you feel.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yeah.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

I feel like this is something, as someone who has borderline, that I always struggled with growing up. Like, I always take things very personally. And so if anyone ever has, it doesn't even have to be a bad reaction. It can just be a very neutral reaction to something I do. It would sort of be the end of the world for me. Like, I would care a lot about how other people reacted to me and how other people saw me. And if I could share a little story. Actually, a while ago, I was listening to your podcast, so I'm. I'm like, I'm quite a tattooed dude. I've got, like. I would say, like, half my body's covered. And I listened to your. One of your podcasts a while back, and there was this guy talking about, you know, just caring a lot about what other people thought. And then you told him, and this was, I think, when you were still doing live streams a lot. And, you know, you always used to say, like, don't look at the chat.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yeah.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

And then that time you told him, like, don't look at the chat. But, like, the chat is sort of like the world, not the actual literal stream chat. And then that sort of really resonated with me. And then I got a tattoo of that. So now I have a tattoo on my hand. Don't look at the chat. Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Get the out of here. You have a tattoo that says, don't look at the chat that you got from the podcast.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah, it's on my hat.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Get the out of here. No way.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah. And. And every time I sort of start spiraling into, like, oh, my God, what do people think of me? You know, why don't they reply me? Why don't I look at that? And I go, you know, remind myself, don't look at the chat. Don't look. Don't look at the chat yourself.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Don't look at the child. I love it. I love it.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

I love that. Wow. I can't believe you got a tattoo of that. Yeah. Oh, my God. Wow. That's so far.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Wow.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

I'm getting a real kick out of this. Oh, my God. Don't look at the chat. No. And by the way.

[Nicotine Cessation Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Don't look at the chat. Like, I do. I do. I do genuinely believe. Fuck. Especially as I'm getting, like. Fucking. Especially as I'm getting, like, older and I'm like. Like, as I'm getting older and as, like, there's less time and as there's less energy and as there's, like, more things I want to do, I'm just like. And also as, like, there's less time and there's more noise. Like, we live in a world where there's never been more. Like, there's all. There's so many.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Things that. To decide to care about. I think you just really. I think, like, you really gotta whittle down the things and the people whose opinion you care about. Like, you should, like, abs. Like, if you. If you don't care about anyone or anything, like, your life is gonna be an existential nightmare. But you totally should, like, be very intentional about, like, the things and the people that you care about. I mean, I have it down in my head. I. In my. I've, like, I've, like, sat down on, like, my notes app and been like, I care about these people's opinion of me. I care about, like, in, like, my personal life and, like, my business relationships in my fucking, like. Like. Like the art universe, like, the things I want to do. I'm like, I like writing. I literally have, like, written down, like, what do I actually give a fuck about? And then you realize, like, when. Like, when you actually write, like, what do you. Like, what do you actually, like, what's actually worth giving a fuck about? And then you look at the universe and all. And all of the infinite things and people in the universe that are begging for you to care about them. It's too much, like, you know what I mean?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

It's just.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

It's too much.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

And you will get overwhelming, wept. You will get swept away by it. It's. You have to think about, like, friends that you just, like, don't have. Like, everything's a fucking trade off. You just think about, like, fuck, I don't have time to, like, stew over, like, what this fucking person thinks about me or, like, go have, like, I don't have lunch with this fucking person because, like, whatever. It makes life way better. I mean, don't. You don't want to be one of those people. It's like, I don't care. I literally don't give a fuck about anyone or anything because that's just depression. Right? That's not good. Yeah, but you want to have select. Yeah, you want to have, like, select few people that you're like, I really care what this person thinks about me because I love them. And, like, if this person, like, if this person, like, we all have, like, you've had like a friend. Like, in Hong Kong, you have a friend come to town and they're like, we should get lunch. You have to, really. And it's like, that's gonna take up my whole life to go across town, have lunch with you. I don't want to do that. You know, now I have people who, if they come to town, I'm like, of course I will make time out of my existence. Yeah, it's because I love that. Because I really love that person. But, like, I don't want to just say yes to like, everything and everyone because I just. Because you just can't. Or like on the tv when they're like, this person said this or this thing happened or like, or Reddit or whatever. Like, so it just fucking. So many fucking things and fucking people just fucking trying to get you. Your attention away from like, the things that you have decided that matter all the time. And it's. It's exhausting. And you really have to be like, deeply defensive about it. You like addictions too, you know? Fucking. Yeah. I mean, candy takes. Dude, candy takes up a lot of my time. Candy took up like my whole morning. It's crazy.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

I think that's really true, like, also sort of deciding what and who matters to you in what way. I think another trait that I sort of have with Borderline that I talked about a bit late just now is sort of. It's quite sort of black and white, you know, I either consider like, if. If we work together and we get along, I'm like, you're my friend, you know, but like, it's a working relationship, right? It's not like they're really friends with me, but in my mind, we're like, oh, we're besties. We're friends.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yeah, but why does. Okay. But. Okay. And another thing, and this is on a similar subject with, like, again, like, with relationships. Like, like, I like having a lot of acquaintances. You know, it's okay to have a queen. It's okay to have, like, workflow. Like, it's okay to have, you know, your. Your relationships kind of teared out in a sense, you know, like, it's.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

And. And by the way, listen, listen. Let's say you have a work friend and you really like them and you want to be more than just what they have to give. That's okay, you know, like, but just. Just find enjoyment in your own side of it. If you start needing to have the enjoyment be in, like, what is coming back at you, you just get fucked.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

That's very True. That's.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Yeah, I'm trying to live it, but I don't always.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Are you getting a lot of Zen in Japan?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Am I getting a lot of Zen in Japan? Not really. I don't feel. I don't know. Not really. No. No, not at all. Yeah, I don't think that, like, Zen, I mean, I find. I don't like. Finding Zen is not about, like, going to some fucking temple. You know what I mean? It's about like finding a flow of. It's like finding a flow and frequency of your life that works for you.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like sort of what you said about all these external things that bomb far to you every day, and then we kind of develop this idea that I will be happier if I fix everything outside or everything external. But maybe in reality it's, you know, inward maybe.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

No, I disagree with that. I actually think. I totally. I think that I used to. I. You. It's. It's total coke. It's like. It's. It's sto. No, no, it's stoic. Cope to believe that I. And by the way, I've. This is just how I feel today. I don't know. Don't. I'm not gonna record this and put it on the Internet, but I actually totally am because we get into a podcast today. But I've.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

We.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

I've talked about this a lot on the show and I've just, like, think about it in my life, like, the concept of, like, to what degree. I'd love to submit myself to the stoic belief that, like, everything is internal, but I. I don't think that's a full truth because I do think so much of one of. Of internal peace is based off external reality. And I think it's a. I think it's a disservice to say that you can just like, at least me. At least me. I can't just go into my brain and be like, this is all in my head. Like, I can't just do that. Like, I need, like. I just need stuff. Like, I need like a clean room. I. That's like my own. I need like, to have like, certain. Certain, like, things going on in my life. I need my life to like, feel a certain way day to day and like, my. My external habits to have like. Like, I, like. I, like. So I. There's so much I need reflected in my external reality to feel regulated and like, normal. And I don't think that's crazy necessarily.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

No, I get a lot of.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

And I get. I get A lot of motivation, like, waking up in the morning, trying really hard to get my external reality to a place like that where. Where I'm enjoying the frequency of it, but I don't. I less and less believe in this, like, stoic ideal that, like, you can just be chill in your own brain. Yeah. I mean, but that's just me. Everyone's wired differently, right? So there's some people. Some people are. Can just do that. And also. Also, I'm not like. Like. Like, there's so much I don't know about myself and about, like, neurochemistry or whatever, where it's like. I don't know, Maybe in, like, 20 years, I'll realize I was doing everything wrong. And I. I also. I do so much wrong already where it's like.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

But I think that's what makes your podcast so interesting, because I've listened to you since, like, pandemic times, and, like, you. You also evolve and you also develop your beliefs. You know, it's a journey for you. It's.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

It.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

You know, it's not like you just have a set of beliefs and everyone calls in and you're like, no, do this, do this, do this. And it was quite interesting to see your journey to finding sort of your truth over the years and growing with the audience. I think that was quite interesting.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Well, thanks, man. Yeah, I mean, I'm. It's still, like, it's all. It's progressing. I keep. I mean, I talked about it with another caller where I was like, I still. I. And I do. I do believe this in the. In the tr. In, like, the whole, you know, is happiness found externally or internally thing. I do believe that, like, I can ma. I can think about, like, I can map out my life and all the different things that were going on externally in my universe at different times in my life. And, like, it would just. It would just be ignorant to say that they don't affect you. You know, like, it would be. I. It would.

[Lily (Caller with Marital Issues)]

Yeah.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Just be ignorant to say that they don't have an effect. But it's a yin yang. It's like the yin yang thing of, like. Yeah, it's not. You can't go the entire, like, you can't just, like, retreat into stoicism and have everything be internal and pretend like, external world doesn't affect you, but you also can't have everything be external. Right. I mean, like. Like, I'll take work for an example. Right. Like, I think a lot of, like, people get hung up on, like, especially in the social media, World, like, success based on numbers and all these things. And I do have a thing where I'm kind of trying to make more of my happiness about my input into the world and less about, like, the outcome of it. So, like, so, like, you know, like, I'm making these documentaries and, like, of course, like, I'm working really hard on them. And because I'm working really hard on them, I want them to get views, I want people to see them, because I think it's just a natural thing. If you work really hard on something, you care about it, you want people to see it. But I'm also trying not to be too married to this idea that, like, my health and existence as a person is, like, based on the. The outcome of these videos. But I get. And I'm trying to be like, okay, like, what's a thing? Like, what's a. What's a. What's a mode of life? What's like, a thing where, like, I'm in the most amount of control as possible, meaning, like, for these videos, right? It's like. It's like, okay, would I be happy if over the next 10 years I was able to just keep making, like, if over the next 10 years I just keep making these videos and they. And nothing ever, like, pops off again, and all I really got was like, to have made the video, I'd be like, yeah, you know, that's a good trade off. I got to make a lot of, you know, stuff that I'm proud of. And I think about that. I try to apply that to a lot of stuff where it's like, okay, what processes would I be happy to just do because of the process of them and because I enjoy it. Obviously I want, like, I obviously, like, I. If I. If I work really hard on something and then it. It. You put it out there and it's not received well, it's. It is a bummer, but it's not enough of a bummer that I'm gonna be like, oh, that was a waste of time. Why did I do that? You know, it'll. It'll. I'll still be able to look at the work and be like, oh, I'm proud of having done this, whether or not the, you know, the external rewards come. But that's how you have to do it, right? Because to get those external rewards, it's gonna require years and years and years of. Of you just, like, kind of being only focused on your input. And so you have to find a frequency of input that you are actually happy existing in or else you're gonna burn out. You're not gonna fucking do anything.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

That's very true. That's very.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Well, jeff. I don't know if any of what. I think I just went on a rant.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

No, but it's. It's. It's like a rant of. Of substance.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

I'm trying. I haven't figured it out yet, but.

[Nicotine Cessation Ad Voice]

Jeff.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Yes?

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Is there anything else you want to say to the people at the computer before we go?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Don't look at the chat.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Don't look at the chat. I can't believe you got that tattooed on your hand. That's also. That's a Dan. That's another thing in life where it's like, the chat's so big. There's so many people in the fucking chat, and it's like, who do I. I gotta stop reading the Spotify comments.

[Mother's Day Song Promotion Announcer]

I'll re.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

I'll watch other. I'll. You know, actually has made me feel better. I'll listen to other pod. I listen to other podcasts, and then I'll, like, enjoy the podcast, and then I'll read the Spotify comments on that podcast, and there'll be a bunch of comments being like, you know, like, critical. And I'm like, oh, well, I enjoyed it. And it's like, maybe something with my brain. I don't know. I'm crazy. Whatever. Jeff, is there anything else you want to say to the people at the computer before we go?

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Well, I've said the thing, so. Gek, you should come to Hong Kong. We love you.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Oh, I'll be. I'll. I'll make it over there at some point.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

Please do. Please do.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Swag. Oh, wait, I did. I asked you that question twice.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

You did? Yeah. My first answer was don't look at the chat. Then we did a second take where I said, come to Hong Kong.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

I got to see a doctor, man.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

It's jet lag.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Take it easy, Jeff.

[Jeff (Caller from Hong Kong)]

You too. Love you, ge.

[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

My name Jeff.

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[Therapy Gecko (Host)]

Hey everyone, it's Kel Penn.

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