“IS IT IMMORAL TO HAVE KIDS?”

Summary

Therapy Gecko – “IS IT IMMORAL TO HAVE KIDS?” (May 3, 2026)

Host: Lyle, the Gecko
Podcast: Therapy Gecko by iHeartPodcasts
Episode Theme: Exploring the ethics, anxieties, and existential realities of bringing new life into the world, interwoven with candid, unscripted calls from a variety of guests.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Lyle (the Therapy Gecko) takes calls from listeners to dive into the dense philosophical and moral question: “Is it immoral to have kids?” The episode meanders through existential anxieties, economic realities, the pressure to provide, the unpredictability and hardship of life, and the search for meaning—while also catching candid snapshots of callers' lives. The tone is reflective and neurotic, but often warm, darkly funny, and endearingly chaotic.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. The Ethics and Anxieties of Having Kids

Guest: Chris (starts at [01:11])

• Chris shares his experience as a new father: Expresses satisfaction with family life, emphasizing security (“I just want like, security probably most. It's a very secure thing for me and I find comfort in that…” [01:56])
• Lyle’s existential dilemma: Lyle unpacks his worries about the suffering inherent in existence, questioning the morality of bringing a new consciousness into the world specifically so they can experience inevitable pain.
  • Quote: “If I want to have a kid and I’m like, oh, I’m gonna bring a being into consciousness to suffer... it does freak me out…” [04:50]
• Chris responds empathetically: He acknowledges anti-natalist perspectives, stressing personal responsibility and available resources to minimize suffering.
  • Quote: “It is like a big responsibility, but it’s also a responsibility that’s doable, and we have like more resources than ever to try and outweigh the suffering with joyful experiences…” [07:10]

Financial/Economic Factors

• Both discuss the tension between financial readiness and the idea of parenting as a privilege of the affluent:
  • Lyle: “Is reproduction just becoming a right reserved for the elite?” [08:45]
  • Chris: Shares his “good faith” approach—waiting until both partners finished school and had stable jobs.
• Notable: Chris and his wife made a conscious, responsible decision to have a child but acknowledge the high costs and stress.

Sense of Happiness and World Anxiety

• Lyle asks Chris if he’s happy. Chris says he is, except for stress related to the current state of the world: “The main stress point...is the current state of the world.” [13:10]
• Chris leaves to help with his daughter’s bedtime, spotlighting the day-to-day realities, not just philosophical ones.

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2. Lying, Identity, and Survival: A Brazilian in Portugal

Guest: Jose (starts at [15:24])

• Jose initially shares a dramatic (and fabricated) life story: Quickly admits to lying—a writing prompt, not truth. Lyle confronts Jose about authenticity and honesty.
• They discuss the urge to lie or exaggerate for attention or opportunity:
  • Jose: “Being Brazilian is like, you’re born clandestine, right?... you kind of have to trick people constantly and try to get ahead, because you’re never getting ahead normally.” [34:52]
  • Lyle refuses regret: “Regret’s not a useful emotion to have... reflection and changing of course is useful. But the shame of regret is kind of self-flagellating.” [33:50]
• Existential malaise: Jose describes life as a perpetual, unglamorous hustle, and the emotional impact of joblessness and uncertainty as an immigrant.
• Memorable moment: Lyle insists on sharing two minutes of silence with Jose to "just exist" together, critiquing the idea there needs to be a purpose or narrative (“This moment is all I give a fuck about.” [21:28]; Silence: [27:49-29:58])

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3. Young Adulthood, Art School, and Contentment

Guest: Michael (starts at [43:58])

• Michael, age 18, just finished a year at art school: He moved back in with his parents and works at a noodle restaurant.
• Themes of parental pressure vs. autonomy: Michael reflects on doing things for himself vs. doing what others (grandparents, parents) want.
  • Quote: “Most people go to college because of their parents... I went to art school because my grandparents told me to go.” [45:07]
• Lyle’s advice on education: If you don’t go into debt, college is valid as a period to discover yourself; if not, there are better options.
• Dreams and lowkey ambitions: Michael only wants “to make enough money to live in a one-bedroom apartment,” and is content drawing pictures and cooking noodles.
• Tone: Remarkably chill and optimistic (“I think I'm going to be fine, too.” [51:37]), with Lyle affirming this.

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4. Chris Returns: World Anxiety, Local Action, and Hope

Chris returns at [58:26]; deep existential/ethical discussion resumes

• Anxiety over global political/economic fate; focus on local action
  • Chris turns anxiety into action by getting involved at the city council level: “What I've decided to do is to try and do something at a local municipal level so I can fix the things around me…” [63:39]
• Lyle reframes pronatalism:
  • “One of the best things you can do for an ailing world… is to have a kid and give them a good life and teach them good values…” [64:08]
  • Chris: “If you can influence the future in a better way, that could be a good argument to have a kid.”
• Generational wisdom & positive influence: Lyle muses on helping the next generation navigate life, whether as a parent or not.
• The burden of global knowledge:
  • Lyle: “We have the most information… of all of everything and everyone… and that makes us freak out a little…” [68:53]
  • Chris: “There's so much suffering… how do I even parse all of it?” [69:36]
• Community and optimism:
  • “The nice thing is… I'm not the only one feeling this way, so there's some form of community…” [62:56]
  • The episode ends with the coinage of the word "unlikely" as the “probably for no.” [71:11]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On suffering and parenthood:
  • Lyle: “I would feel responsible for every single thing that happened in that kid’s life.” [04:50]
• On lying and survival:
  • Jose: “Being Brazilian is like, you’re born clandestine, right?... That’s just how I got into this country in the first place.” [34:52]
• On existential approach:
  • Lyle: “The show is just, you're on the phone with a gecko. That's it. There's no other thing.” [30:18]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:11] – Chris on parenthood, morality, and money
• [15:24] – Jose, fabricated stories, lying, and existential malaise
• [27:49-29:58] – Two minutes of silence with Lyle and Jose
• [43:58] – Michael, art school, and the slow life
• [58:26] – Chris returns, world anxiety, local action, and hope
• [68:53] – Information overload and existential pressure
• [71:11] – “Unlikely” as the probably-for-no

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

• The episode is a blend of earnest neuroticism, compassion, philosophical inquiry, and playful absurdity.
• Lyle, as Therapy Gecko, oscillates between meta-commentary on the podcast form, existential musing, and deeply empathetic listening.
• Major takeaways: Life is weird, anxiety is normal, and both the chaos of existence and its pleasures are unavoidable. Doing your best—whether as a parent, immigrant, or young person figuring things out—is meaningful enough.
• The “immorality” of having kids is less a matter of final moral philosophy and more about personal values, informed intention, and optimism for the possibility of making things a little better.

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Flow of Callers

• Chris frames the existential and practical experience of modern parenthood.
• Jose exposes the complications and shame of self-invention/survival.
• Michael embodies the uncertainty and low-stakes ambitions of youth.
• Chris returns to close the loop, ending on a note of communal anxiety and hope.

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Final Thought from Lyle (the Gecko):

“The whole show is just, you're on the phone with a gecko. That's it. That's the show… All expectations of this call have been met.” [30:18]

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For listeners:
If you’re wrestling with the “should I have kids?” question, this episode is less about concrete answers and more about embracing the ambiguities and absurdities of being alive. Whether you’re starting a family, making noodles while drawing pictures, or just existentially spiraling, Therapy Gecko assures you: You’re not alone, and that’s enough.

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End of Engagement Content.

Transcript

[Jose]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Guaranteed Human.

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[Lyle (The Gecko)]

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[Chris]

Hey.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Hey. What's your name, brother?

[Chris]

You call me Chris.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Chris. Oh, Chris. Chris, Chris, Chris. What are we gonna do with you, Chris?

[Chris]

I don't know. What can I do for you, Gekko?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What can you do for me? Well, what do you do? What are you doing right now?

[Chris]

Just relaxing for the evening, really. My wife is putting our daughter to bed currently, so.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Sounds nice. That sounds nice. What's it like have. What's it like having a family? I'm genuinely very curious.

[Chris]

It's been great, honestly. Like, there's a lot of. Things that, like, once you have a family, you weren't really like, thinking about before that, like, become stressful or like more stressful. And obviously, like, everybody's family situation is not the same. And so, like, I don't want to sound like a guy who's like, all of my family so far have been good because I know there's people who've had really bad families, but it's great to be in one. I feel very. I've lived my life in a way that is like very. I just want like, security probably most. It's a very secure thing for me and I find comfort in that where I know it's definitely not a secure thing for everyone.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You know, security is great. I used to knock security more and everyone told, like, people told me that the old. It's kind of a classic thing, like the older you get, the more you crave security. And I am. I am finding that. I mean, I'm always trying to find, like, a balance. I think I've. I'm trying to strike a really kind of precise rhythm to my life that has a combination of chaos and stability, and I think I'm getting close to that. And I, I wanted to ask you about that. I wanted to ask you about the kids thing, though. Okay, let me. Can I get existential with you for a second? Because I want to share a thought with you, and as a father, I want to hear your opinion.

[Chris]

Go for it.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay. I like, okay. Have you ever heard. I'm like, I'm on all these weird rabbit holes on the Internet and I've been kind of, like, reading about the. Like, is it the moral, like, the ethics of, like, bringing a child into the world? I'm super not. I'm super not on the whole thing of, like, why would you bring a child into this crazy world? Like, I think the world has been way crazier in the past than it is now. But I guess this kind of existential thing of, like, if you believe that, like, there's like, inherent suffering to life. I like, I'm thinking about, like, if I want to have a kid and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna, like, bring a being into consciousness to, like, suffer. And maybe that is obviously, of course, reflective of my own, like, brain place, I suppose. But I do think about. I do think about it. It does freak me out to, like, bring a new form of consciousness into the world because of my own choice. I would feel responsible for every single thing that happened in that kid's life. And then I would also be. If I'm also afraid of, like, you know, obviously, like, like, there's come. There's a certain. The point of, like, you can do the best you can to be a good father and to raise your child right and to give them attention and do all these things. But after a certain point, you know, they, Their. The. The. Their experience on this earth does become out of your control. Their experience on. Their experience on this earth is 100% shaped by you for a long time. But then there does come a point where you lose control. And I sort of fear, like, about the sufferings that this being I've created will undergo just as an inevitability of being a human being. I mean, of course, there's inevitable joys of being a human being, but there's also just. When I get kind of hung up on, like, weird, it's like nihilistic. I don't, I don't like it. I don't. I'm also, I'm in a weird mood and when I'm in a good mood it's easier, but like just this whole thing of, of bringing a being into this earth to like deal with the inevitable suffering of existence. So. Yeah, what do you think about that?

[Chris]

Oh no, dude, I totally get it. Like I'm, I'm with you on the thing where like I know there's I. My talking to you just making my brain fart a little bit. But like the Natalists are like people who are like, the main goal is to like have children. You know what I mean? Like, that's like their ideological. And then like the anti natalist group is like, it's actually like morally wrong to bring consciousness into world for like a lot of the reasons you like talked about. Yeah, but I don't know, I think I kind of fall in especially like now I definitely fallen like to the, the more middle ground of those where it's like, I totally get what you're saying and it is like a big responsibility, but it's also like a responsibility that's like doable and we have like more resources ever than ever to like try and outweigh the suffering in life with like joyful experiences and to be like, you know, help the, these beings that we brought into the world. But then also at the same time, I really get pissed off when I hear like, you know, a Natalist, whether it's because of like a political policy or like a religious thing or whatever, there's like just have kids. And I'm like, dude, I've seen the price of houses. You're telling people to have like five kids right now. Like, are you kidding me? Where are they gonna put them? You know, like, you can't, you can't hold that position when you can't be mad at people when there's like clear economic pressures that would make it so the being that they bring into this world, you know, their kids are going to just have a worse life. Like, how can you even ask people to do that, you know?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I go back and forth on that because of this argument, which feels like a pretty legitimate argument to me of like people like, I like, I believe that you shouldn't have a child until you're like financially ready. But also it gets when you, when you kind of like when you start thinking about all the like outside factors for, for which you know, a person is in. Is in poverty and financial strengths of which it's, you know, a lot of them. It starts to be a thing of like. Well, is. Is reproduction, like just for the becoming like a right reserved for the elite, you know.

[Jose]

Mm.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

But also at the. But on the same coin it's like. But it still feels shitty to bring a kid into, you know, the world when you can't like, afford to take care of them.

[Jose]

Mm. Yeah.

[Chris]

Like, I guess I could tell you kind of like the process that like when we decided was a good time for us to have a kid and it was when we were like, we were both going to school and we were both like, we don't even want to think about a kid until like, we're both done with school. And then like, we both graduated and like I found a job thankfully, you know, like, miraculously feels like sometimes. And then we're like, okay, well we know we can like afford to have a kid, like even just. And the crazy thing about this is just like the expense of just bringing the being into the world is insane. And then like providing for them throughout their whole life is also insane, you know, but then it. You also don't want to just be like, well, like, only rich people can have kids, you know, like money gap it that way because that's. That also feels really crappy. So I don't know. It's definitely one of those things where you can do it. I think it's one of those things where you can do it in way more responsible ways. And you know, there's. And you just have to get to that point that you feel that you're like doing an actual good. Like it's never going to be perfect, but it's like your best good faith effort into like actually where you feel good about it as well, you know, and that's kind of where we landed on. We're like, you know, we're not making insane money, but we could probably like, we want to have a kid and we can make sure that they have like food and a house and, you know, pay for the birth and all this stuff. And so we were like, we can, we can. We think we can do it, you know.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

How old are you?

[Chris]

26.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Oh, cool, man. Cool. How old's your daughter?

[Chris]

She's about a year and a half.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Cool, man. How long you been with your wife?

[Chris]

Since 20, 21 five years now. We went to school together, but we didn't start dating. We went to high school together and we didn't start dating until like, we went to like, different colleges and reconnected like, two years after we left.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What do you do for work?

[Chris]

Like our hometown or whatever? I do web development for a bank.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay, cool. You're like a. You're a very normal guy.

[Chris]

I like to think so.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

And. But. Yet. But you also. But, you know, but you also all. All these, like, existential things, like, you know, you've kept them in mind as you've made these decisions. It sounds.

[Jose]

Mm.

[Chris]

And I will. Some. It's. Some of this is, like, reflection on the decisions too. It's not all like that. All this was present during the decision. You know, different degrees, you know?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah, totally. Totally. Are you. Do you feel happy?

[Chris]

The only unhappiness, like, the main stress point for unhappiness of my life, I think, right now is, like, the current state of the world.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay. So, I mean, that's great, though. That's good. That means that. That always says to me that, like, you've, like. I feel like people who have a strong disdain for, like, the events of the world outside of themselves have, like, kind of gathered a certain level of peace about their own life so that they can start, like, thinking about the world outside of themselves. Either that, or they're. They just are, like, tinted towards doing that naturally. Like, that's how their brain is wired. What is it about? Tell me. Tell me more about this. Tell me more about the. The main pain point of your life as a general disdain for the world. Tell me more about this general disdain for the future of the world. What does that look like for you?

[Chris]

My daughter's calling.

[Jose]

For me.

[Chris]

We. I, like, switch off with my wife whenever she, like, wants us to swap. Who's, like, laying with her?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Yeah. So if you're still doing sex, when I.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Can I talk to. Wait, Cassette. Your wife, she is tired.

[Chris]

Maybe. Well, she just doesn't know, like, I even texted you or anything, so I.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

She doesn't know. She has no. She has no context for the conversation that you would throw her into.

[Chris]

No. Yeah. So I would just have to check with her first, so. And. Yeah, so. But I can text you when I. When my daughter's asleep, and if you're still taking calls, maybe we can call back or whatever.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

I can't promise anything other than this current moment, but I have enjoyed talking to you. I wish we could have talked more, but I feel like we got a good picture of your life. I'm glad you shared that with us.

[Chris]

Yeah. Thanks for calling. I really appreciate it, man.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

All right, man. You take care. What a good dude. Hello?

[Jose]

Who's that? Who's speaking?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Oh, this is the Gecko guy.

[Jose]

Oh, my God. I can't believe it. I can't believe you're calling me, man.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah, dude, you texted me and you said, feel free to call anytime I am unemployed and have nothing going on in my life. And I was like, perfect. Oh, my God, I need to call somebody so we can do a podcast together. You said. You texted me and said, I am a Brazilian illegal immigrant in Portugal. My wife sold the wedding ring I bought for her to pay for her abortion after our divorce.

[Jose]

Okay, let me stop you right there.

[Chris]

That was a lie.

[Jose]

Okay? I only said that so you would call me. Really?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Well, what the. Dude, fuck you. Why would you. I mean, that's. Okay. I know. What. That's such a what part. Okay, dude, hold on. Wait. Shut up for a second. I am a Brazilian illegal immigrant in Portugal. My wife sold the wedding wing I brought for her to pay for her abortion after our divorce. You brought. Like, there's an infinite amount of things in that sentence for you to have lied about. How much is that all? Is it 100% a lie? Are you doing a voice right now? Are you, like, a, like, dumb American guy in Philadelphia? Like, who. What's the truth?

[Jose]

The truth is I am an illegal immigrant, okay? I do live in Portugal, and I'm a Brazilian guy. The whole story I stand was actually a writing prompt from my favorite author, actually. Chuck Palahniuk. You know, you must be familiar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he has a book, a book on writing called Consider this. And, you know, this is one of his writing prompts.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Like, okay, so the writing prompt. The writing prompt is. I'd like to think that this guy has a workbook section of his novel. And there's just the word. The prompt is lie, and then it's just a bunch of lines underneath it. And that's. That's all the prompt is.

[Jose]

It's something like this. The prompt is actually to have an engaging. You know, an engaging premise.

[Chris]

Right?

[Jose]

Like, for example, another prompt from his book, one that, you know, he has, like, some exercises. By the way, this book I'm talking about is not a novel. He published novels before, like, Fight Club. Familiar with Fight Club?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Hold on, hold on. I don't want to talk about this. This book. I want to talk about you. I want to know the truth. You said, I am unemployed. You said I am unemployed and have nothing going on in my life. Is that true?

[Jose]

That is true. That is true.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay. All right. So that's so that's the truth that we're working with. That is the initial reason that I called you. So as. So as long as that's true, this call can continue as it was intended.

[Jose]

Well, I seem to have lost your trust. I hope to gain it back.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

And perhaps, Perhaps you will, ever so slowly. Are you actually in Portugal? Are you actually in Portugal?

[Jose]

I am in Portugal, yes. I've been living here for the last three years, more or less.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Where in Brazil are you from?

[Jose]

I'm from Brazil, from a state called Goias. Goyunia. So, yeah, yeah, I decided to leave there because there was nothing going on over there. So why not, why not try something new over here? So I did then, tough in the beginning, but life has been slowly but surely getting better. I was working in a hotel. Yeah, it was a very nice experience, actually, but unfortunately got fired. And yet no one employed. Getting unemployment benefits and, you know, trying to find out what, what to do with life. It was, yeah. I don't know, man. Life is weird.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Life is weird as hell. Life is weird as hell. What do you think you're gonna do with life?

[Jose]

That is a very. A very interesting question. You know, being unemployed for so long, like, I've been unemployed ever since the January, so. Has been giving me a lot of time to think about things. And of course, after. I don't know, man. It's really complicated because I don't really know what I want. I don't really know what I want. Like, it's actually, you know, it's very. It's very. It's very complicated because I think you called me at a very bad time because I was kind of sleeping and. Yeah, honestly, I think. Well, there would be.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

I'm surprised you. I'm surprised that you sleep so well sending all these lies out into the world.

[Jose]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What's your name? What's your name?

[Jose]

I think that I, I this one up, man. I think.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What do you mean? Hold on. What do you mean, you. First of all, what's your name again? What's your name?

[Jose]

My name is Jose. I'll be honest, Lyle. I. I don't know what I was thinking about when I sent this text.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

That's okay. I don't care. Listen, what's your. Can you say your name, please? I'm gonna die if you don't say your name right now.

[Jose]

My name's Jose. Maria.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Jose. Jose. Listen, I don't care that you lied to me. I don't care what you sent before. I. You. You're a. You are in Brazil right now. We're on the fucking phone. We're together in this very moment, and this very moment is all I give a fuck about. I already forgot your name, God damn it. Jose.

[Jose]

Jose.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Jose. And you're trying to figure out what to do with your life. If you could do. If. If you could do anything on the planet, what would it be?

[Jose]

I'll be honest, lyo. This. This call is really not going. You know how I was expecting it to go?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

I just told you. Jose, Jose, Jose, you're not listening to me. Okay, okay, Jose, Jose, you got to listen. Jose, Jose, Jose, are you listening to me right now?

[Jose]

I am listening to you, liar.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Jose, I need you to abandon immediately any idea of this call having a way that it was supposed to go, and I need you to instead be in the moment of where it is.

[Jose]

Okay, well, here's the thing, Lyle. I. I actually have plans. I have things to do, but I guess I just didn't come out. Like, I didn't. You know, honestly, this call is just not gonna work. I'm very sorry. If you could please, I'd include this in the podcast. I. I think. Wait. Sorry. But.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold up. First. First, hold on. I. What. Why? What are you talking about? We didn't even talk about anything. I've just been yelling at you.

[Jose]

You know, life. I. I just got the bad feeling. If you want to call me tomorrow.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Hold on. First of all, Jose, I'm totally putting this in the podcast. There's no. If you had. If you. Listen, if you had told me a bunch of. If you had told me a bunch of really sensitive information about yourself, and then afterwards, you were like, hey, man, listen, I. I don't feel comfortable putting in the podcast. Like, well, I. Then. Then I. That'd be one thing, but this is. You. You told me a. You told me a lie. What do you. What, dude, what's going on? Why are you. Why are you freaking out right now? What's the problem? Jose, I'm with you in this moment, Jose.

[Jose]

It's not that, Lyle. It's just that I'm not in the right state right now. I'm not in the right mind space to really have this conversation. I have many things to say, but,

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Jose, Jose, I'm gonna. Sorry, I'm gonna keep yelling. I'm so. I don't. This is gonna be the whole conversation. I'm gonna. We're gonna. We're gonna. Okay, we're gonna get on the same wavelength Jose, I'm telling you, I want you to abandon the idea. Like, even what you just said, you were like, I am not in the right mind space. There is no right mind. There's no this. There is no right headspace there. You're acting like there's a way this is supposed to go. This is complete chaos. There's nothing. This is the conversation. The conversation we're having right now, Jose.

[Jose]

We've been talking for 10 minutes, Lyle.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yes.

[Jose]

And everything that's been happening in those 10 minutes is just me being fucking neurotic. Because I am in a very neurotic spot in my life right now, and I had many beautiful things to talk about, like, about life, about my experience as a person.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

That's what. But you're talking about your experience as a person right now.

[Chris]

What are you talking about?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You keep thinking that the thing is that. No, I'm just. No, I understand. You keep thinking that there's a thing that's outside of the thing. That is. The thing we're doing right now is the thing.

[Jose]

This is not the impression I want to leave people with about myself. I am not neurotic like this. I am not this person. I'm different. I'm different than this. Okay? You just called me a very bad time. Jose, I'm very sorry.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Jose. I'm so. Jose. Jose, do you at least kind of understand what. Do you at least kind of understand what I'm trying to say to you?

[Jose]

I understand what you're trying to say. You want to get real with me. You want to talk about life, but

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

no, that's not what I'm. That's. Jose, no, you don't understand what I'm saying at all. I'm so. I'm sorry. I'm so frustrated right now. Jose. Jose. There's nothing to be sorry about, Jose. Let's just exist. You know what, Jose? I'm going to fuck. You know what, Jose? All right, you know, Jose, I'm going to. I'm going to do this for you right now, okay? Jose, do you know how. In podcasts, are you. Can you hear me? Are you with me?

[Jose]

Jose, I can hear you.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Does it. Do you know how in podcasts, you're supposed to, like, talk and make sounds and then the podcast and then people hear it? Right? You know what I'm doing, Jose? That's what you're supposed to do in podcast. That's my. That's my idea of how a podcast is supposed to go. You know what I'm gonna do instead, Jose, let's let's be. Let's. Jose, Jose, we're gonna be silent. We're gonna exist on the phone together in silence for two minutes.

[Jose]

King.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay, I'm gonna. All right, at the end, okay, we're gonna sit inside. I don't see. I. I'm not thinking that this is supposed to go right way. Okay? This is just what it is, because if I show, like, if I go on the Joe Rogan experience, it's not going to be, you know, two minutes of silence. We're going to do two minutes of silence on this podcast because there's no. There's no right way for this conversation to go. Okay, all right. At the end. All right, I'm going to start. I'm going to start now.

[Jose]

Okay, well, I appreciate the insistence. I appreciate.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

No, Jose, wait. Jose, Jose, we're gonna do two minutes of silence. Okay?

[Jose]

Okay. Okay.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay. We did it.

[Jose]

I really. I really appreciate that you're trying to get through to me, like, get to the core of. Of this and. Right.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Jose. No, no, Jose, can you hear me?

[Jose]

I can hear you.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

I'm not trying to do anything, Jose. I'm just trying to exist. You're on. You're on the phone with a gecko right now. You're on the phone with a gecko right now. That's all. This has to be everything. I want you to understand this, and I don't think you. I don't think you understand this. I'm gonna try one more time to get you to understand this, okay? This show, these calls, they are about. And this. Honestly, you know, when I. You know what? When I first started doing this, I think I'm actually think. You're actually making me think a lot about myself, Jose. You actually are making me think a lot. I'm talking about me. If you don't want to talk about, let's talk about. You're making me think a lot about myself. You're making me think a lot about myself, Jose, because I've been. I've gotten too into, like, oh, let's talk about this interesting thing. It depends on the day. Like, hey, what do you want to talk about? And you know, when I first started doing this, the whole. The whole show is just, you're on the phone with a gecko. That's it. That's the show. There's no other thing. And that's kind of the whole. Been the whole point of the whole thing the whole time, but still, the point of this phone call was that you were on the phone with a Gecko. And that has been achieved. That's been achieved. That's done. That's crossed off the list. Okay. So that was the only expectation that there was to be had was that there was a guy who was gonna talk to a gecko on the phone. And so all expectations of this call have been met. So that's it.

[Jose]

I see. I see. I mean, I see. I am not currently conflicted about much in my life. Of course I'm unemployed. Um, but when I sent those texts, there were things I really wanted to talk about. But those things at this point, at this very moment, are not as important right now. I'm just really existing, you know?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yes.

[Jose]

We could talk about anything.

[Chris]

The weather, also.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Jose, Jose. Also, also, also those texts were lies. What the fuck you're talking. Jose. Sway. Jose, Dude. Jose, you're, you're. You were talking just now as if you like, you were talking just now as if the thing you texted me was real. You were like, oh, that lie. Like, oh, I was in a position to tell you about my wife spending my wedding ring money on her abortion, but that's too heavy to talk about right now. That didn't even happen. That's a lie. It's a lie, Jose.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Jose]

Here's the story I was telling myself when I sent that, is that, you know, I'm Brazilian, man. The only way I can move in life is by hustling and scheming. You know, that's, that's just, you know, that's just how. How I, that's how I got into this country in the first place.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

That's not a scheme. That's not. That's a lot. That's not.

[Jose]

It's a very awful thing to do. Exactly. And that's why I regret. That's why you regret it. And you know, I said a lot of identifying information in the beginning and I, that's why I was so adamant that, you know, let's cancel this call. Please don't include it because I regret. I regret it. I don't know what I was thinking when I sent the text. I just really wanted to talk to you so bad about.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Regret is not. Regret's not a useful emotion to have, I think. I think analyzing behavior and keep it like moving forward. I think reflection, reflection and changing of course is useful. But like the shame of regret is kind of like a self flagellating.

[Jose]

I mean, we can analyze that lie as a behavior pattern. Really. Like, I guess that would be a valid angle to really analyze it because I think it applies to Many things, but how they're leading my life. And you know what even inspired me to do such a thing? You know, to trick you into calling me by having an absurd premise. And, I don't know, man. Like, being Brazilian is like, you're born clandestine, right?

[Chris]

You.

[Jose]

You kind of have to, you know, trick people constantly and really try to get ahead, because you're never getting ahead normally. Like, if I never. If I never leave the country to try, you know, try life in Portugal, I would probably have never achieved anything. And it's really sad. It's really sad that Brazil is a country that kind of smarter zeal in the womb, I suppose it's a country that never was allowed to really develop itself and, you know, become a thing. So being Brazilian is really sad. You're kind of in this existential limbo, and, I don't know, man. I guess it made me a very bad person. But you have to be a bad person or to survive. I wish I did not have to be like this. As you can see, I'm very ashamed of what I did. I regret what I did. But that. That's the thing, man. I mean, what can you do when you don't have the same opportunities with anyone else? Like, it's when you've been smothered in the womb, more or less. You never been allowed to grow. You never. You never had any breaches and nowhere to go.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

There's something so funny.

[Jose]

You never had a strong family. I don't know, man.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

It's something so funny about you texting a fake story into the Therapy Gekko podcast and then going, you got to be a schemer to survive in this planet.

[Jose]

I don't know. I think it's very true. It's very true when you're from the Twitter world, but. But here's the thing, man. I. I've been. Life has been nothing but struggle, honestly. Like, all this work, the uncertainty of. Of the next paycheck, and I don't know when. When it is gonna end, you know, I don't know if it's ever gonna change. I don't know if. You know, I'm not saying class ascension, but, you know, having a little. A little more relief, adding my.

[Chris]

My.

[Jose]

I don't know. I think my curves a little bit less tight, I suppose. I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know when it's gonna end. I don't know what the future looks like for me. Looks like a lot. A lot of work and more work. Very disillusioned about life. Maybe you can have some insight about it.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Oh, geez. I, I, you know what? I'm actually going to take a. Take a piece from your playbook, and I'm going to tell you that I do have thoughts about that, but because it's 11pm And I'm deep in a Vyvanse crash where my dopamine and norepinephrine are very low, my stress levels are very high, I. I'm gonna take a piece out of your playbook. I am in not the right mindset to talk about that because I'm inclined to agree with you, but if I were in a better mood, I would have different thoughts about life. But, Jose.

[Jose]

Yes.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You did it.

[Jose]

We had the call.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You got the call. We did. We did whatever we were supposed to do here.

[Jose]

I suppose so.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Is there anything else you want to

[Jose]

say Worked in the end.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?

[Jose]

Joseph, I appreciate you calling me. I'm sorry for tricking you. And if you can please, please edit the beginning of this call to.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Really, I'm not, I'm not editing a single thing of.

[Jose]

Well, edit some identifying information there that.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What do you. Wait, what identifying information? Wait, what identifying information? What did, what did you say?

[Jose]

Like, where I'm from in Brazil, specifically my, my interest, because, you know, around my friends, I talk about my favorite author all the time, and that's very identifiable to them. So if you could just, you know, but I could ask you.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

It's just the, Just the fact that you're Brazilian.

[Jose]

No, the fact that I'm Brazilian and I'm very into Czech polahnik. Like, that's a red flag that my friends are going to know from miles to hear.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Dude, I can't. How is anyone going to identify. How is anyone gonna identify you that you're a Brazilian into Chuck Pollen? That's. So you're not.

[Jose]

Yeah, man. I'm gonna get clowned and marked on my little, My little circle like what they do. Listen to this podcast.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Dude, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm not gonna edit this. All you said was that you're a Brazilian and you like this book.

[Michael]

Oh, man.

[Chris]

Oh, man.

[Jose]

You know what, Lio?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah. Jose's not even your real. Jose's not. Jose is not your real name, right?

[Jose]

No. Jose.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay, I'm not edit. I'm not editing this. You said you're Brazilian. You like a book that's too much work to edit.

[Jose]

If you put your Address, city I was from. Okay, okay, you know what, Lyle? You know what?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Tell me.

[Jose]

I'll get. Here's what. Here's. Here's where I release this.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay?

[Jose]

Said earlier in the call, regret is not a useful information.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

I agree.

[Jose]

You know what, Lyle? I'll buy this bullet, man. Post it as it is. And here's the thing. Maybe when your Venvans crash out, maybe that's it. And you listen to this call again, maybe in a better mood, maybe you have different ideas. But if later you look at this and say, no, I'm gonna post exactly as it is, then be it, man. You're. You know, I.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

This. I'm putting this episode on a thing in less than 12 hours. This is. This is. People will listen to this. And, and, and. And you know what's gonna happen?

[Jose]

What's gonna happen?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

People are gonna run. People are gonna make spreadsheets cross referencing bookstores where Chuck. Whatever his name is, and a Brazilian guy. People are gonna find out who you are based on those two heavily identifying tidbits of information that you dropped that you are one of. Hold on. What's the population of Brazil? It's literally one of the most popular places in the world. Okay, hold on. Okay, you are okay. All right? You've been narrowed down out of 212 million people. So if someone wants to find you, dude, you're gonna be fine. You're gonna. You're gonna. You're gonna be fine. Jose.

[Jose]

You're a very. You're. You're very fun lion. Thank you very much for this conversation. Thanks for. Thanks for keeping this conversation even after, you know, I. I lied to you, man. Like. Yeah. Think things. Did I earn your trust back even a little bit? I guess that was the objective. Maybe I didn't. That doesn't matter. Anyways, thank you very much, Lyle. I don't think there's anything else we can really discuss over here.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Good luck, Jose. I'll see you around the universe.

[Jose]

You were wrong, Lyle.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

That was Jose. He's a Brazilian that likes Chuck Norris. Chuck Berry, I think. He. I think. Is that the guy who created Two and a Half Men? He's a Brazilian that likes Chuck E. Cheese. He's just like us.

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[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Liberty? Liberty? Liberty? Liberty?

[Chris]

Hello?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Hello. Is this. I actually don't know your name. Hello. What's up? What's your name?

[Michael]

Oh, I'm gonna give you a fake name. My fake name is Michael.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Michael. What's up, man? What's going on?

[Michael]

Oh, man, I just moved back in with my parents.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

How's that going?

[Michael]

It's going pretty good, actually.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Do you have a good relationship with them?

[Michael]

Yep, I'd say I do. They are good parents.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What were you doing before you moved back in with your parents?

[Michael]

I just completed my first year of art school.

[Chris]

Oh.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Did you learn anything?

[Michael]

Not really.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You didn't learn anything?

[Michael]

Well, I learned some stuff, but, you know, I learned more about people than I did in my classes. You know what I mean?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Tell me more. What did you learn about people?

[Michael]

I learned about how most people go to college because of their parents, and not because, you know, they actually want to, of course, but, you know, I went to art school because, you know, my grandparents told me to go. So

[Jose]

I don't know.

[Michael]

And I'm considering, you know, maybe not doing it for four years because it's kind of a scam, but, you know, I'm not too worried about it.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Here's my. Well, here's. This is all. This has always been my position. So. Okay, so your grandparents said that you should go. Are they paying for it?

[Michael]

They are paying for it, so I'm probably going to keep going.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay. My position. My position is that if you have to take out any loans to go to art school, you should totally not do it. But if your grandparents want you to go and they want to pay for it, they. You should totally do it the whole time.

[Michael]

Yeah. You get it?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

No, because here's the thing. Like, it. Like, if you can. If someone else is willing to, like, front that for you and, like, in their eyes, like, they want it for you, they think it would be good for you. Especially if it's. It sounds like, I assume, dick, you wanted to go to art school, right? Like, it's. It doesn't sound like it's a. It's a thing where, like, you know, it's. You're being forced to do something you don't want to do. Like, it sounds like you want to do it. It's like they're sending you to med school. Or some shit.

[Michael]

This is true, because I have a friend who's going to be a doctor and he has to pay for it all by himself.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah, yeah, but that's not a terrible idea for him. As, as, as much of a terrible idea. It would be a terrible idea for you to go to art school and pay for it. But the thing is, and here's the thing, right, because if, if you're, if your grandparents are willing to pay for it, now you just get to. How old are you?

[Michael]

I'm only 18.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

See, this is perfect because now for like four years, you can kind of just dick around and like, experiment with. You get like a little safety bed. You know what I mean? You get a little like four years of like, let me, like, meet people and fuck around and make shit and kind of like discover myself before it's time to figure out how to make money. So it is a positive thing. It is, it is a legit gift. Your grandparents are. Your grandparents aren't really sending you to college. Your grandparents are giving you four years to dick around and sort of figure out who you are and what you want to do. And that is helpful. But if you have to pay, if you have to, there's easier ways to do that than paying for it out of pocket. But again, if your parents wanted to pay for it, it's, it's, It's a good, It's a good deal. So you're learning about people. What. Okay, what made you want to go to art school?

[Michael]

Honestly, I just like drawing pictures and, you know. Pictures.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Sorry, I thought you were gonna stop there. Go ahead.

[Michael]

Well, it's more than just drawing pictures. You know what I mean? But like, if you have a talent, you're told to capitalize on it, so. And I didn't want to take classes I didn't care about. I wanted to take classes about drawing pictures.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What do you like to draw pictures of?

[Michael]

I like to draw pictures of people, of animals, of like, I don't know, just stuff. I like, whatever. I feel like.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What do you hope to do for the future?

[Michael]

I just want to, like, be happy. That's all I want.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What do you think would make you happy?

[Michael]

I think I want to make enough money to live in, you know, maybe like a one bedroom apartment. I think that's good enough for me until I'm like, you know, I want to say 20, because, dude, I'm only 18 years old. Isn't that crazy?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You want to make enough money to live in a one bedroom apartment until you're 20?

[Michael]

Dude, I, like, have no plans for the future.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

That's okay.

[Michael]

I plan to go to art school. And then if I that doesn't work out, I'll go somewhere else. I'll, like, be okay. I work at a noodle restaurant. I can be a noodle cooker.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You'd be happy to be a noodle cooker.

[Michael]

I am a noodle cooker. I work for a big noodle restaurant. Dude, I'm not lying to you, I swear. I texted you a lot of times and I deleted the text because it sounded like I was lying, but I

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

wasn't lying because I, I, I, I don't. I. If you were going to lie about doing something, I would hope it would be. I mean, I believe that you're a noodle cooker. I believe that you work at a restaurant and you cook noodles. That's not a crazy thing to say. So you're telling me that you would be happy continuing to cook noodles indefinitely?

[Michael]

I could see myself cooking noodles for. To get myself through college, to be honest.

[Chris]

Cool.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What's your name again?

[Michael]

My name is Michael.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Michael. Michael, everything about your demeanor so far indicates to me that I. I think you're going to be fine.

[Michael]

I think I'm going to be fine, too.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Like, I think you're going to be fine.

[Michael]

You said you my friend, and I know I wouldn't want to be a doctor, so, you know, but I'll be us. I'll be a guy on the phone, you know, cooking noodles and drawing pictures.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

That sounds.

[Michael]

Hear me?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Oh, I can hear you.

[Michael]

Yeah. I think that's all. I think that's all I have to say, Mr. Gecko.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

All right, man. Well, yeah, I'm rooting for you. I think. I think you're gonna be fine. Whatever you end up doing. Drawing pictures, eating noodles, making noodles, doing them both. I think you're going to be fine.

[Michael]

I think you're going to be fine. Mr. Gecko. You got a going on?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You think so? You think I'm going to be okay?

[Michael]

Yeah, dude, you get to go to so many cool places that I wish I could get to go to.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You'll get to go. Don't worry. You'll get to go to the. Where do you want to go? Let's talk about this real quick. Where do you want to go?

[Michael]

I want to go to Thailand first.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay.

[Michael]

I want to go. I don't know, just anywhere else. I'll go anywhere.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

I assume you have a. Sure, yeah. I mean, don't give me your address. Yeah, vaguely. Where do you Live. I am curious.

[Michael]

I live in the Midwest area.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay. Do you live near a major city? Yeah, yeah. Do you live near a major city, or do you live near, like, in the middle of kind of nowhere?

[Michael]

I come from the middle of nowhere, but I go to school in

[Jose]

a.

[Michael]

Not. I go to school somewhere.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

In the Midwest. Have you ever left the Midwest?

[Michael]

Yes, I have left the Midwest, but, you know, the farthest I've ever gone was Canada. And, you know, Canada's pretty cool, but, like, I would not live in Canada. No. Hate to Canada.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah. Well, you got a lot of places to go. Go check out, should you want to check them out. That's what's exciting, man. That. Truly. That's what, like, not to say I'm, like, over it or anything, but, like, fuck. You know, the. The nothing beats, like, the first time you get to go to certain places, you know?

[Michael]

Yeah. It's like exploring the map. You know what I mean?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, going to Japan for the first time, going to Europe for the first time, seeing all the. All the places in America you've never seen for the first time. Like, it's kind of. It's a little bit like doing mdma, where it's like, the first nothing ever beats the first time.

[Michael]

I think I'm a little too young to do that one. Not gonna do that one.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

No, I am not suggesting at all that you do mdma, but I do think it's good to travel. Like, I remember fucking. Yeah. The first times I would, like, solo travel in, like, Europe and shit, like, just without the first time, when it's all very, like, novel and cool. It's. I'm nostalgic for that.

[Michael]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely gonna go in the future when I can, but, you know, I'm kind of stuck working my job at the noodle place.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Oh, dude, you'll get there. I. I. Again, I have no thoughts whatsoever that. Anything. I think you're gonna be fine. You'll get to go to places. You get to draw plenty. I believe in your life, you're gonna get to go many places. You're gonna draw many pictures, gonna make many noodles. The world will. Will bat you around a little bit as it. As it does to us all. But I believe that you have a good outer shell to withstand the battery.

[Michael]

Yeah. Is there anything else I will leave you with, Mr. Gekko? Please, please. Is that. On the top floor of my school?

[Jose]

Huh?

[Michael]

There's a student with a poster of you, and it's signed and you're not. And you're, like. You're not naked, but you're not wearing the full Gecko costume. And I thought that was pretty funny.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Oh, wait, is it the one where I'm, like, in a bikini?

[Michael]

You're lifting a. Like, a little blue weight.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

I think I'm very uncomfortable that. That is posted up at a high school somewhere.

[Michael]

It's not a high school. I'm the. I just. I graduated from high school. Don't worry, bro.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay, this was at. This is at the art school.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay. All right. That's. That's.

[Michael]

I have a summer. I don't want to dox myself, so. But I do have a summer birthday, so, you know, I'm kind of young. I'm kind of little, but, you know, I like listening to people talk to the Gecko on the phone. I've been doing it since I was very young.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What's your name again?

[Michael]

My name is Michael.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Michael. Good luck, Michael.

[Michael]

Thanks, Gecko.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

See you around the universe.

[Michael]

I'll see you,

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Michael. Michael's gonna be all right. Michael's gonna be just fine.

[Jose]

Hello.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

What's up, man?

[Chris]

Not much, man.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Wait, what's your name again?

[Michael]

Chris.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Chris. Chris, from the beginning, I told you that we might. I told you that we might not ever talk again. And I meant it in that moment, but I thought it would be kind of fun to have you be the first caller and then have it end like that, and then have. And then we'll end the episode with you again.

[Chris]

Oh, wow.

[Jose]

Honored.

[Chris]

That's crazy. And I was told I was willing to accept that. I was like, you know what? I had my chance. I honestly. I was satisfied with the amount of time I was able to talk to you. And, you know, but this is great. I'm glad to be back.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay, let's wrap this up in the next 10 minutes. 1. Why are you concerned about the greater fate of the universe? Is that what. That's how. That's how we left off last time, I believe.

[Chris]

Yeah. Like, the. Basically, like, I kind of feel like my immediate surroundings are taken care of, but then the external stuff is what is harder to feel comfortable in. Good about, you know, like, feel security from, you know.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Such as. Such as what?

[Chris]

Oh, mostly just, like, the, like, political stuff, some local legislation stuff. I mentioned earlier, I work, like, with programming, and, you know, that's, like, the hype thing is, like, a bunch of people being laid off from it. And so I'm like, well, I kind of got, like, a bachelor's in this, so I Would really appreciate it if you didn't like taking my money away from me, you know, like my job, you know, and so. But, like, that's all kind of above and outside of my immediate control in, like, a big scheme way. Um, and so that's where, like, a lot of the anxiety and fears, quote unquote, you know, come from. Hmm. If that makes sense.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

That makes a lot of sense. Yes. It makes sense that you are nervous about the future of the planet, but you have it. I don't know. I've gone on this fucking spiel a ton on this podcast about, like, unprecedentedness is extremely precedented. We've only ever lived in unprecedented times type of shit.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

And also, I do genuinely dislike when people say that, like, like, people get really anxious about, like. I mean, we have like, you know, whatever. Trump and fucking war and AI. Like, yeah, sure, there's a lot of crazy stuff, but like, bro, the. Like, we had World War II. We had like, less. Less than a hundred years ago, the world was at war. And yeah, the Hitler doing a bunch of crazy stuff. People. America had a civil war. There has been industrial revolutions for fucking centuries upon centuries. There's been giant. There's been giant plagues and massive fucking slaughterings. And like, I don't know, like, none of this. People might shit on me for it, but I. I'll stand my ground on it. I think none of this shit is, like, new, you know, I mean, it's new to us.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And it's like. And like, people have obviously gotten through it, and that doesn't mean. Just because you. They got through it doesn't mean, like, it was fun for them to get.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah.

[Chris]

You know what I mean? And came out the other end better or like, the outcome was better? Not necessarily. They came out the other end of, like, the struggle better, you know, But I think one of the ways I'm dealing with it is, like, that's a good realization to be like, look,

[Jose]

the

[Chris]

nice thing is, I guess is what I'm trying to get at. Like, I'm not the only one feeling this way, you know, and so there's like, some form of community and being like, hey, can we, like, do anything about this? Like, can we change this? Like, what can I do to alleviate personal anxieties about things that feels out of your control? And so I've been getting. And what I've decided to do is to, like, try and do something at, like, a local municipal level so I can, like, try and fix the things around me that I can actually have more vision into and like go to city council meetings and stuff. And that has helped, man.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

I also just think, like, I also just think like, okay, back, all right. Argument for natalism. And because the first time I called you way back when, all those many minutes ago, I was going on the whole nihilistic fucking thing about raising a kid to suffer. I think what, okay, pronatalism argument. I think one of the best things that you can do for an ailing world, should you be in the position to do it actually, is to like, have a kid and like, give them a good life and teach them like good values and shit so that they can go on to like be positive, productive members of society and have positive, productive lives. Because if human. Because. Right, because we're. Because we're worried about the existential threats of the universe that cause mass human suffering. But mass human suffering, but human suffering as like a cohesive, all encompassing thing is built up of. Of, you know, all of the individual humans that exist on Earth. And your daughter is one of the individual humans that exist on earth, as are you one of the individual humans that exist on earth. So to the degree in which you can alleviate your own suffering and alleviate your daughter's suffering and create a good life for her, you are contributing in what I believe to be a substantial way to alleviating the mass human suffering of the entire Earth.

[Chris]

Yeah, and I think that's like, it's like flipping like the one big, like a lot of people who are like pronatalists, they seem also really like enamored. Enamored and obsessed with like this idea of like leaving behind a. A legacy. So some like, they're like in. But like in a really gross way that you see from like a lot of. Especially like some people in like the tech sphere, they're like, I need to have a ton of kids so like, I'm never forgotten. And like, I have a legacy. And you know, it's just like a bunch of like little me's running everywhere. But you're like flipping that on the head and being like, well also if you're like, do we just want them to have just a world full of them later than like, if I have the capacity to influence the future in like a better way and like a more responsible way, that could also be a good motivator to. Or like a good argument to like have a kid. You know, it probably shouldn't be your only reason for having a kid, but definitely will get you maybe over a few humps or anxieties about like, the responsibilities you. You will take on, you know.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You know, I also have this thing of like, I, you know, I've live. I feel like I've like, experienced a lot of feelings and events and things to the point where I'm like, like, I feel like. I feel like I've navigated some oceans mentally and whatnot. To the point where I'm like, huh, I could really try to help, you know, a human being that I really care about. That's like going through the motions of existing to like, give them a better roadmap. Like, I guess, like, like the. The new generation should always be smarter in that. In that sense, you know? And that's. That's good. That's a positive.

[Chris]

That is a positive. I agree.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah. Okay. Now I'm now thinking about it not so nihilistically. Go ahead.

[Chris]

Oh, I was going to say. And like, even like that's just like a positive in like the, like, you can do that and you like, you don't even need a kid to do that, right? You can like, try.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

And that's true. Yeah.

[Chris]

Like volunteer at like, like do like not tutoring the words escaping me. Not like a boy's home or something. But, you know, you can try and influence the younger generation in a positive way with your experience and it doesn't necessarily have to be like your kid. You know what I mean?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Totally. Totally.

[Chris]

So, you know, and I think there's a lot of people, like, I think your show does helped a lot. Like, it's. I live in a very like, homogeneous part of the United States and so you don't get like a lot of differing viewpoints, you know, and it. It has helped a lot to be like, man, people be living. There's whole universes out in these people's lives. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, dude, it's crazy.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

We know too much. We know too much about the world. That actually, maybe that's kind of what I think. Actually that's kind of one of my theories as to why like, we're so anxious because we. We just have. We have more information. We have an unprep. We have the mo. Okay. To devil's advocate my own everything is unprecedented thing. We have the most information about the entirety of all of everything and everyone all the time ever than anyone else has. And I think that that makes us. That makes us freak out a little bit.

[Jose]

Mm.

[Chris]

Yeah. Like, gives you like, it does like push a definitely more nihilistic kind of thing. You're like. They're just I can't, like, I can't fix all of this. You know what I mean? Like, you know too much. Too much about the world and too many. And a lot of that. A lot of that is good, but a lot of it is also, like, really bad. And it's really tough to, like, focus on the good and, like, push for a better day tomorrow than just being like, holy cow, there's so many. There's so much suffering. How do I even, like, parse all of it?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Chris?

[Jose]

Yeah.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?

[Chris]

Oh, yes, the. What was I gonna say? I texted it to you.

[Jose]

You.

[Chris]

I was listening to your. The most recent one before this one with the lady from Iran, and you were talking about how we needed a probably for no. Yeah, I think it's not likely.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah, but that's. But that's not. That's two words, so I need one word.

[Chris]

Oh, just a single word?

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Yeah, yeah, No, I just need one word.

[Chris]

You want to do something later? And I'm like, not likely. That's.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Oh, okay. All right, all right, all right. Unlikely.

[Chris]

Unlikely. Oh, there you go. There you go.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Unlikely. That's the probably for no. There we go.

[Chris]

Awesome. Well, thanks for calling, man.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

I'll see you around the universe, Chris.

[Jose]

See you in the universe.

[Chris]

Talk to you later.

[Jose]

Bye.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

You hang up first. Is he gonna do it? Is he gonna hang up?

[Jose]

Oh, right.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

See you, Chris. He hung up. Oh, my God. Wow, this was a great episode of the podcast. I. This is. I gotta stop trying so hard to do this. I gotta start dicking around more. I used to stick around with this more. I got to dick around more. It's more fun. Still works, folks. Has been the Therapy Gecko podcast. I'm a gecko. I'm Lyle. I'm on the road. I'm going to California in about four hours. If you're in San Diego, I'm doing a show, the American Comedy Company the night of. Whenever this airs. If you're in LOS ANGELES, Wednesday, May 6, I'm doing a show. If you're in a bunch of other places, you can go to therapy. Gecko tour dot com. I'm doing shows this week. Fuck. Either Monday or Tuesday. I try. I was trying to get it all done in time. I just fucking couldn't. But my Ukraine documentary is almost done. I'm very excited about it. My. These documentaries have been getting me. Getting me real fired up. They've been getting me real fired up. I think I'm gonna go to Somaliland. Next. We'll figure out what that's going to be like. I just got back from Japan a couple whatevers ago. I'm feeling a little crazy. But when I'm ready to go on a random journey again, it'll probably be Somaliland. India looks cool. China looks cool. Antarctica. There's a lot of places I want to run around and be a gecko. And we got time. There's still people here. There's still people listening to this show. There's still people hanging out. So we'll do things. We'll live life. We'll have fun. We'll try our best. And I'm gonna go to bed. Geck. Bless you. And I will see you all in another life. Or in another episode of the podcast. Fuck. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Everyone's gonna be okay. Everything's gonna be fine.

[Jose]

Woo.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

All right. How do I turn this off? How do I turn this off? Okay.

[Chris]

All right.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Okay. Live your life. But he's not really an expert.

[Jose]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Lyle (The Gecko)]

Guaranteed human.