Podcast Summary: This Guy Sucked
Episode: All About the Benjamin with No Such Thing
Release Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Dr. Claire Aubin
Guests: Manny (D), Noah (C), Devin (B), Kelsey (E), Rich (F)
Collaboration: No Such Thing Podcast

Episode Overview

This milestone episode celebrates the one-year anniversary of This Guy Sucked and brings together the hosts of "No Such Thing" for a lively, critical, and often hilarious investigation into Benjamin Franklin's real legacy. Central to the discussion is the question: Was Franklin a genius founding father or an overhyped, self-promoting fraud? Along the way, the conversation addresses everything from historical celebrity culture, mythmaking, education shortfalls, and Franklin’s relationships (with slavery, women, and farting). The episode wrestles with how—and why—some historical figures escape modern scrutiny.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin of the Episode: Franklin's Modern Reputation

• [03:54] The episode’s inspiration comes from a listener’s conspiracy theory: “I think that Benjamin Franklin was a grifter with a great PR team. ...He was never actually president, but was somehow always there as an advisor, an Elon Musk kind of fraudster, the ideas guy with a big checkbook.” (Kelsey, E)
  • Kelsey’s perspective is colored by living in Philadelphia, where Franklin imagery is omnipresent.
  • She questions how any one man could be credited for so many innovations.
• “I feel like it’s extremely possible that everyone hated him and he was a bad hang, but his reputation has been scrubbed clean.” (Kelsey, E — 04:50)
• The hosts set out to determine if Franklin was a fraud, a hero, or something in between.

2. Dueling Perspectives: The Friends' Franklin Debate

• [08:23] Rich, described as a Franklin enthusiast and “patriot,” argues it’s unfair to call Franklin a Musk-like fraud and points to his diplomatic achievements, especially securing French support during the Revolution, as evidence of real substance.
• “You wouldn’t send him around to all these things, these high stakes positions, if he’s a fraud.” (Rich paraphrased by Noah, C — 09:23)
• The hosts highlight that both Kelsey and Rich are talking past each other: Kelsey objects to the legend of Franklin as the lone genius, while Rich focuses on his public service and diplomacy.

3. Historical Mythmaking & Public Image

• [11:32] Dr. Aubin and the hosts explore Franklin’s celebrity, noting that his status as an 18th-century celebrity fueled both his myth and his effectiveness.
• The myth of the “lone genius” is a recurring theme, with analogies to modern celebrities and inventors (e.g., Travis Scott and Elon Musk).

4. What Did Ben Franklin Actually Accomplish?

• [17:04] The group lists Franklin’s supposed inventions/achievements: flying a kite, discovering electricity, the Declaration of Independence, diplomacy, bifocals, insurance, firefighting, postal service, and more.
• Dr. Aubin: “Most of these things at least have a grain of truth to them. He ...is instrumental in securing this French alliance... He does work on electricity. But I will say work on electricity.” (A, 17:53)
• Franklin did not invent electricity but popularized theories and conducted experiments already ongoing in Europe. The lightning rod, for example, was developed in parallel with others abroad (e.g., Prokop Divis, Czech priest).
• [23:06] Education and textbook oversimplification inflate Franklin’s solitary genius narrative: “The lone genius scientist guy who is like, I’ve invented electricity isn’t real. That’s not actually how science works or innovation works.” (A, 20:26)

5. The Renaissance Man and the Myth of Complexity

• [24:40] The panel discusses specialization vs. generalization: Historically, educated men were expected to be well-rounded (science, philosophy, art)—the “Renaissance Man.”
• “So the Da Vinci, Renaissance man-style guy, it was a much more common person until recently. ...that proves how good you are... how intelligent you are that you can engage with all these different things.” (A, 25:20)

6. Franklin’s Flaws: Slavery, Opportunism, and Self-Promotion

• [34:35] Franklin’s complicated and troubling legacy with slavery:
  • Owned, bought, and sold enslaved people for most of his life.
  • Profited by running slave ads in the Pennsylvania Gazette and enabling slave patrols.
  • Publicly turned to abolitionism only late in life (“So for most of his life, not only does he own slaves...he also feels basically fine with it,” A, 34:42), and stipulated that his enslaved people would only be freed upon his death—both died before gaining freedom.
  • “They don’t like it, but they still like it enough to...not risk some money, basically.” (A, 41:44)
• Franklin also advocated for westward colonial expansion with little regard for Indigenous peoples.
  • “He says…we should take the west, too. …he’s not alone in thinking this…it’s not specifically about wanting to…cause the annihilation of this enormous group of people, but he doesn’t have a problem with it necessarily.” (A, 42:10)

7. Franklin the Eccentric: Sex, Farts, and Advice

• [50:21] Franklin’s “freaky uncle” reputation is supported by:
  • “Fart Proudly” — An essay encouraging scientific inquiry into flatulence for young men (A, 50:21).
  • “Advice to a Young Friend on Mistresses” — Franklin recommends marrying older women, famously writing, “...as in the dark, all cats are gray. The pleasure of corporal enjoyment with an old woman is at least equal and frequently superior.” (A, 52:43)
• “The older she is, the better she is, the more practice she has.” (A, 52:52)
• This eccentric, relatable side adds to his indelible public image.

8. Why Wasn’t He President?

• [45:13] At the Constitutional Convention, Franklin was 81—too old for serious consideration as president (A, 45:16). His advanced age allowed him to pursue a staggering variety of “side quests.”
• “He has time to do a million other things because he doesn’t hold political office in the same way.” (A, 46:52)

9. Why Doesn’t Franklin Get “Canceled” Today?

• [56:12] Unlike Jefferson or Jackson, Franklin seems to escape modern reassessment. The group theorizes:
  • He was not president or a general; so not the “main character” in popular U.S. narratives.
  • His persona as a “kooky genius” makes him easy to compartmentalize, deflecting deeper scrutiny.
  • “We love the kooky genius guy. Like, that’s an archetype that we’ve been working with for a very, very long time…” (A, 57:39)
  • Americans (and their curricula) prefer simple, comfortable stories about the past, avoiding discomfort and nuance.

10. Closing Reflections: Reconciling Contradictions

• [61:22] Dr. Aubin sums up: “All of these things are true at the same time. And also he sucks and also he’s smart and also. So, you know. …We like a one-dimensional guy when we think about history.”
• Both “sides” of the debate (Kelsey & Rich) realize their views are less antagonistic than they thought—Kelsey’s aversion is to celebrity mythmaking; Rich values Franklin’s diplomatic achievements.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "I just kind of hate celebrities. ...I think I have some anger at, like, the kooky little genius guy archetype." (Kelsey, E — 65:01)
• "The issue here is really just kind of, like, oversimplification. So, no, he doesn't steal credit from people, but, yes, his relationship to the things he invents and does and science are oversimplified." (A, 18:23)
• "He gets credited with being the sole creator of things that are actually sort of transnational global ideas." (A, 19:52)
• "He did have haters... while he was alive at how people were engaging in this, like, myth making around him." (A, 31:33)
• "If you reassess the past, it makes you have to think harder about what you're dealing with right now. ...So when we reassess people, it feels like... it creates a sense of discomfort." (A, 60:55)
• "All of these things are true at the same time. And also he sucks and also he's smart and also..." (A, 61:25)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:54 - Origin of episode: Kelsey’s Franklin conspiracy
• 08:23 - Rich’s pro-Franklin position
• 15:42 - Dr. Aubin explains why “fraud vs. importance” isn’t a dichotomy
• 17:04 - The Franklin accomplishments myth—panel's knowledge tested
• 18:48 - Comparison to Travis Scott (Franklin’s control over his own myth)
• 20:26 - The lone genius myth and collaborative invention
• 24:40 - The Renaissance man then vs. now
• 34:35 - Franklin and slavery—enslaver, late abolitionist, profiteer
• 42:10 - Franklin’s take on Indigenous peoples and westward expansion
• 50:21 - Franklin on farting, sex with older women (“Fart Proudly,” “all cats are gray in the dark”)
• 56:12 - Why modern reassessment/cancellation skips Franklin
• 61:22 - Complexity of historical figures—closing argument

Conclusion

The episode deconstructs Benjamin Franklin’s mythology, revealing a complicated, often uncomfortable, but ultimately deeply human portrait. Yes, Franklin contributed enormously to the American Revolution and was genuinely involved in science and public service. But he also exploited and omitted others, benefited from and perpetuated slavery, and expertly managed his own celebrity. The hosts and guests agree: Adolescents of American history love tidy legends, but the truth about Franklin—and all “great men”—is messier, requiring a reckoning with both accomplishment and complicity.

For listeners new to the show or topic:
You’ll never look at the man on the $100 bill, or the phrase “all cats are gray in the dark,” quite the same way again.