How Kids Get Emotionally Intelligent

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How Kids Get Emotionally Intelligent"

This Is So Awkward
Date: March 3, 2026
Hosts: Dr. Cara Natterson ("A") & Vanessa Kroll Bennett ("B")

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Overview

This episode dives into the concept of emotional intelligence (EQ) in children, especially during the tumultuous years of puberty (ages 8–18). With humor, science, and empathy, Dr. Natterson and Vanessa explore why EQ matters, how it develops, the challenges faced by children and parents, and strategies for nurturing these skills across diverse temperaments, developmental stages, and genders. The episode provides practical tools, cultural insights, and encouragement for adults seeking to support kids—and themselves—in building emotional intelligence for lifelong benefit.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Emotional Intelligence ([02:44])

• Emotional intelligence is "the ability to understand, manage, and express emotions while also recognizing and responding to others' feelings."
• Vanessa jokes about the acronyms: “I felt emotionally unintelligent when I didn’t know what EQ was, but I knew what emotional intelligence was.” (B, 02:22)
• It’s both self-knowledge and empathy—standing in your own shoes and in someone else’s.

“It is both self-knowledge and empathy rolled into one.”
(A, 03:08)

2. EQ: Nature, Nurture, and Neurodiversity ([03:36] – [05:27])

• Some kids seem "born with mad EQ" while for most it’s a learned and learnable set of skills built over time.
• Neurodiversity (e.g., autism, ADHD) impacts development and expression of EQ; strategies must be tailored.
• Recognizes the importance of specialized resources for neurodiverse kids, recommending Debbie Reber's podcast “Tilt Parenting.”

3. The Role of Gender and Cultural Norms ([06:54] – [08:39])

• Cultural and gender expectations significantly shape children’s emotional development:
  • Girls: traditionally encouraged to use emotional language and empathy.
  • Boys: often receive far less emotional coaching and language after infancy.
• Referenced research (and the “Boy Mom” episode with Ruth Whitman) highlights how infant boys and girls start similarly but diverge due to socialization.

“If we don’t give boys the same language we give girls, we actually are telling them this language is not important to you.”
(A, 09:22)

• Dr. Natterson discusses her book Guy Stuff Feelings aimed at giving boys a feelings vocabulary.

4. The Importance of Emotional Vocabulary ([14:02] – [15:51])

• Kids need tools like feelings wheels and charts to develop their vocabulary beyond “I’m fine.”
• Visual aids (charts/wheels) make emotions tangible and gradational (not just “happy” or “sad,” but “elated,” “content,” “bummed,” etc.).
• Vanessa’s classroom advice: let kids circle how they feel on a chart, even if they can’t read the words yet.

“I am all for bringing back feelings wheels, feelings charts—anything that allows kids to get at some granularity around their emotional vocabulary.”
(B, 15:24)

• Concrete examples from Guy Stuff Feelings:
  • “Sadness cloud” words: weepy, disappointed, glum, heartbroken, blue, bummed.

5. Overcoming the ‘I’m Fine’ Barrier ([18:15] – [19:33])

• Children (especially tweens/teens) often hide feelings for privacy, fear of repercussions, or worry about others’ reactions.
• Modeling vulnerability as an adult helps—the more granular, specific, and honest, the better.

“I'll sort of model for them what it looks like to unpack something that doesn't feel great...”
(B, 19:16)

6. The Five Elements of Emotional Intelligence ([20:39] – [34:04])

1. Self-Awareness

   • Recognizing and naming one’s feelings and the reasons behind them.

2. Self-Management

   • Regulating emotions and impulses. Hosts candidly share personal and family examples, acknowledging this is hard for adults too.

   “We can’t all have control of our emotions all of the time.”
   (B, 23:12)

   • Highlights the stress/anxiety burden for 'perfectly' managed kids who never act out.

3. Social Awareness

   • Understanding others’ emotions and perspectives.
   • Tied to developmental stage; develops through late elementary/middle school.

4. Relationship Skills

   • Communication, conflict resolution, and compromise.
   • Best practiced in family/sibling relationships; need to be deliberately fostered for only children.

5. Decision Making

   • Acting in ways that appropriately integrate one’s own and others’ emotions.
   • Sometimes kids have elements 1–4 but falter at this final step, especially under stress.

   “It all lands at making decisions. And actually that's where we see emotional intelligence play out.”
   (A, 34:42)

• Gendered Differences in Social Awareness & Relationship Skills
  • Tweens and teen boys often "quiet down" emotionally, possibly linked to testosterone (hosts invite researchers to study this).
  • Girls are more often encouraged to verbalize and process feelings.

7. The Value of Family ‘Contracts’ for Communication ([31:27])

• Vanessa’s story: Explicitly stating a “social contract” in her family that they talk about feelings, even if it’s hard.
  • Strategies for drawing out reticent kids: ask for “just one thing” about their day and model openness.

8. Asking for Help: The Sixth Essential EQ Skill ([37:34] – [38:52])

• Recognizing one's own limitations and seeking support is an act of strength, not weakness.
• The hosts argue that the ability to reach out for help is an essential component of EQ.

“You cannot be emotionally intelligent and think you don’t need help.”
(A, 38:54)

9. EQ and “Smarts”—Not a Zero-Sum Game ([38:52])

• EQ and IQ are separate; building one doesn't diminish the other.
• Every child (and adult) benefits from fostering emotional intelligence, regardless of innate temperament or neurotype.

“It’s not a zero-sum game... regardless of the way their brain is wired, [everyone] has capacity to learn some of the skills of EQ.”
(A, 40:46)

10. Lifelong Learning—It’s Never Too Late ([41:56])

• Many adults haven’t been taught EQ skills—so learn with your kids!
• Book recommendation: Big Kids, Big Feelings by Alyssa Campbell.

“It’s never too late, and the research tells us these are lifelong skills that get built...”
(B, 41:56)

11. Personal Gratitude & Modeling Growth ([42:59])

• Cara thanks Vanessa for helping her build better EQ structures, demonstrating the importance of learning from others at any age.
• Encourage children by sharing that adults are always learning and improving too.

“One of the places to land with emotional intelligence is recognize that as the adult in the room, your emotional intelligence is growing and evolving all the time, too.”
(A, 43:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If every single kid could get physical therapy and occupational therapy, they would all be better off... The same is true of emotional intelligence.”
  (A, 00:08 & 40:55)
• “Letting our kids know that there’s stuff that we’re still working on... is such a gift to our kids so they don’t see it as a black and white zero sum game.”
  (B, 45:00)
• “Mirror the people in your life with more EQ. What has come from that has been only good in my life.”
  (A, 43:40)
• “Para, eq, iq, ei, whatever it’s called. It is a pleasure doing it all with you.”
  (B, 45:38)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:44 – Clear definition of EQ
• 06:54 – Gender and cultural norms in EQ development
• 14:02 – Feelings wheels/charts and emotional vocabulary
• 18:15 – Overcoming “I’m fine”: barriers in expressing feelings
• 20:39 – Five elements of EQ introduced
• 23:12/25:14 – Risks for “over-managed” kids and those never allowed to lose control
• 27:29 – Social awareness and relationship skills, impact of siblings/only children
• 31:27 – Family emotional contracts in practice
• 34:04 – Decision making as the apex of EQ
• 37:34 – “Asking for help” as the (sixth) essential skill
• 38:52 – EQ is not a zero-sum game vs. IQ
• 41:56 – Lifelong learning, it’s never too late to build EQ
• 42:59–45:00 – Modeling growth, gratitude, ending reflections

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Actionable Takeaways

• Use feelings charts/wheels for more nuanced conversations about emotions with kids, even those who can’t read yet.
• Explicitly model your own emotional process with your children: identify, name, reflect.
• Avoid gendering emotional skills; provide boys with emotional vocabulary and safe spaces for sharing.
• For reserved kids, gently set expectations: “I need more than ‘fine.’”
• Encourage the mindset that asking for help is courageous and essential.
• Adults should learn EQ alongside their children and model ongoing growth.
• Recommended resources: Guy Stuff Feelings (Natterson), Big Kids, Big Feelings (Campbell), Debbie Reber’s Tilt Parenting podcast.

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Closing Sentiment

Both hosts emphasize that emotional intelligence is an evolving, lifelong journey—and that it’s never too late to start. Practicing and modeling vulnerability, self-awareness, and communication equips both children and adults to navigate life’s awkward (and wonderful) moments with confidence, resilience, and connection.

Transcript

[A]

We have long recognized the importance of fostering EQ in kids who have certain types of neurodiversity. It should be fostered in everyone. If every single kid could get physical therapy and occupational therapy, they would all be better off because all of those skills are helpful to all people. And the same is true of emotional intelligence. Hi Vanessa.

[B]

Hi, Car

[A]

Vanessa. We talk a lot about emotions and moods and ups and downs. We don't talk a ton about emotional intelligence, about the skills that are required to name those emotions and then the benefits of actually putting words to how we feel. So that's what this episode's about.

[B]

And it seems kind of obvious, like, oh, we're always talking about being in conversation and connecting to kids and all of those things. And yet it was really when we started writing our K through 3 curriculum that we got really granular on those skills and why they're important. What do they mean? In our high school curriculum, we look a lot at how emotional intelligence is really helpful for long term health and we educate high schoolers about that. Like we're really explicit about how it's an important way to live life to be healthier and safer. But with littler kids, we're laying the groundwork in those skills. And yet they're such critical skills. And the research tells us that they're so important for things like resilience, which in our culture often people would assume, oh well, EQ or emotional intelligence and resilience. Well, those aren't related. Those are actually, maybe even opposition to each other. But in fact the data tells us otherwise.

[A]

Yeah, so I mean, let's start there. Which is we use this phrase emotional intelligence and yet we use the initials eq.

[B]

Well, I was laughing about that because I was like, wait, what's eq? Emotional quotient. But I felt emotionally unintelligent when I didn't know what EQ was, but I knew what emotional intelligence was.

[A]

Yes, you felt E U because you didn't have the right acronym for ei, which is really eq.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Yeah. So people fling EQ around all the time. Right. And really what they are describing is, is the concept of emotional intelligence. Here's the definition. It is the ability to understand, manage and express emotions while also recognizing and responding to others feelings. So the way I think about true full emotional intelligence is the ability to stand in your own shoes and recognize everything that's happening for you and to stand in someone else's shoes and recognize and respond to their feelings. It is both self knowledge and empathy rolled into one and let's be honest,

[B]

this is a place where neurodiversity can play a big role depending on what kind of neurodiversity a person has. Right. Reading social cues, reading someone else's expressions, reactions, having self awareness about our own emotions and the granularity of language to be able to express it. And then it also has to do with a kid's development. Right. What we can expect from a 5 year old is different from a 10 year old, from a 15 year old. So it's not sort of a blanket skill like when built. Okay, there you go. You're off and running. It really is a scaffolded skill and we have to be aware of the ways in which people are challenged in developing that skill at that point or maybe even ever. And what are the other things we can teach them in order to supplement or help out areas where they may have weakness in this, in this area.

[A]

Okay, but let's be honest. We all know that kid who from like when they were 3 years old had mad what I would call EQ, right? Like I'm thinking of one kid, I know who he could work a room from, I mean kindergarten in not sort of an ick factor kind of way. Like he really understood from a very young age how to connect with people and how to meet them where they were. And so it's definitely learned and learnable. But there are some people who are born with a certain temperament that allows them to achieve emotional intelligence earlier or with a little less heavy lifting than other people. Right.

[B]

So this episode isn't really about those kids because those kids are sort of innately, it's like their superpower and they probably have other things they have to work on. But this isn't one of them. This is for the kids who sort of naturally and normally need help and conversation and training and reinforcement and all of the things that allow them to build this emotional intelligence. We're not going to get into how technology use affects emotional intelligence, but I think that will be a field for future study and really interesting ways and I would love to see how that, how that impacts people's development. And we are not experts in working with kids who are neurodiverse. We would point you to folks like Debbie Reber's podcast Help Parenting on, you know, really a stable of seven years of podcast episodes on neurodiversity and kids. So we will raise the awareness that what we're gonna say is related to many, but not all kids. And point you to some, some experts who, who, who specialize in this field. And Cara, I think we have to look at some of the gender norms that get laid into this conversation about emotional intelligence before we sort of go into it. I think we have to. We have to recognize how emotional intelligence is valued and developed differently in kids of different genders.

[A]

Yes. But also culturally. Right. So there's the gender layer and there's the cultural layer, which means that depending upon who you are and what circumstances you're growing up in, the emotional intelligence piece may really vary. So do you want to give an example, Vanessa, of kind of the gender layer of it?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, the research tells us this from very early ages. And I'm trying to remember who we had on. Who talked about this. I think it was Ruth Whitman and Boy Mom. And there's research about infant boys, where they are in their development and what kind of reassurance and sort of emotional reactions they need and how early on the world stops giving them that. Whereas with girls, we're giving them like lots of emotional feedback and lots of language. And boys very early on were actually stopping that instruction or engagement with them. So you can go back and listen to the episode about boy mom with Ruth Whitman for like a deep dive in that. But essentially with girls, we're encouraging the development of language and self reflection around emotions, their emotions, other people's emotions. We're fostering empathy and sort of empathic ways into relationships. And with boys, we're actually not giving that kind of instruction and we're not engaging with them in those kinds of conversations. When I say we're not, I don't mean I'm not. Cara's not. You listeners aren't. But as a culture, as a society, the norms are that traditionally we have not given boys the training and the ways into that in the same way we have with girls.

[A]

I would be super interested to know, maybe a listener knows whether matriarchies have different paths through. I wonder if, you know, if that then filters down to place a certain path type of value on emotional intelligence. That translates differently because the we have it all. You know, we can split people into all different kinds of groups. We can split them into religious groups, ethnic groups, socioeconomic groups, age groups, and the we of it all, I think, is different in the gendering of emotional intelligence. I think we're doing. We are doing a much better job of encouraging emotional intelligence among today's boys compared with a generation or two ago's boys. I think there is a lot of push, and I'm not one to hold up one of my books and say read this. But I am really proud of the book Guy Stuff Feelings, which was the follow along book to Guy Stuff, which is the straight up body and health book from American Girl that was sort of the corollary to the care and keeping of you and Guys. Stuff Feelings is a book that has a corollary in the Caring Keeping series called the Feelings Book. But it's Guy Stuff Feelings is a very specific read and it's designed for 8 to 10 year old boys and it's designed to start from this place, Vanessa, that you're defining, which is the place of if boys don't know the language and they're not encouraged to continue to share their feelings, they're going to get quiet on this front. Like there's really no difference between an infant boy and an infant girl in terms of their desire to get emotional feedback. In fact, some studies would say that infant boys want more actually, others show it's kind of equal. But if we don't give boys the same language we give girls, we actually are telling them this language is not important to you. So that's why I love having been part of Guy Stuff Feelings because it literally goes through the words that describe feelings. And I mean, if you're gonna master eq, if you're going to become emotionally intelligent, the first thing you need is vocabulary. We'll be right back, but first a word from our Sponsors I have had photo books on the top of my to do list for years, literally. And it bums me out that I cannot seem to find the time to do this because there is literally nothing I enjoy more than looking back at old photos of my kids. So it's why I'm thrilled to have discovered Journey Printing. Journeyprint is easy to use. It takes seconds to auto arrange photos into a beautiful book, and it'll even add location maps and dates. Plus, journeyprint uses sustainably sourced paper and for every order placed, they plant a tree. The photobook has moved from a slightly dreaded task that will take so much time to quick and easy. Now the thing that's going to eat up my time is flipping through all those incredible memories. If you're looking to have a memento of your family's amazing moments, or or maybe some of their awkward ones, give Journey Print a try. Go to journeyapp.com podcast awkward and use the code awkward to get 30% off your next purchase. That's journey spelled J-O-U-R N I app.com podcast awkward and use the code Awkward I've always been about quality over quantity, especially in my closet. If it's not well made and versatile, it's just not worth it to me. That's why I love Quince. Quince uses premium fabrics like 100% European and linen, 100% silk and organic cotton poplin. They're all perfect for the changing seasons, but they're also built to hold up. And Quince works directly with safe ethical factories, cutting out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores just for quality clothing. I just got the Italian leather dual compartment toiletry bag in cognac and I cannot wait to use it as I hit the road for my spring speaking travels right now. Go to quince.com awkward for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q-I-C e.com awkward for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com awkward Disney wants to know, are

[C]

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[A]

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[B]

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[B]

It's so interesting. I was working with a bunch of educators last week, and we were talking about helping kids express difficult feelings. And we were laughing because when kids are in kindergarten, they have a feelings wheel or feelings chart, and then they kind of like fall away. And now there's sort of the, you know, the feelings thermometer. And there's the stuff from Mark Brackett at Yale about emotional intelligence. There is stuff, but it gets like, really visually complicated. Like all of a sudden you go from a really simple, easy to pinpoint feelings chart with kids with different facial expressions and the words underneath to like these matrices with like a million colors and a million words. And it's like super intimidating even as an adult. And so when we were building our curriculum, we were like, can we find something in between? Also, we're old and we can't read those tiny words and those tiny matrices. So having something at home in your classroom that has like enough emotions as a big enough feelings chart or feelings wheel. Cars holding up in guy Stuff, there's some options there that are lots of different emotions. Sometimes kids like them lined up really neatly so they can kind of pinpoint. We used to a dynamo girl, we used to laminate them and we give kids an expo marker, so if they were really feeling too overwhelmed to talk, they could circle whichever emotion they were feeling. And a lot of these were pre readers like these. They didn't even know what the word said underneath the expression, but they were relating to the expression. So, like, I am all for bringing back feelings wheels, feelings, charts, anything that allows kids to get at some granularity around their emotional vocabulary.

[A]

I mean, Vanessa, it turned out that when sort of the facial cueing charts made their way into hospitals, the ones that are happy to sad, and it was associated with a pain scale, it made all the difference in terms of that visual cueing. I want to point to a couple pages in guy stuff, feelings that do a nice job of taking the language piece and making the language piece more granular. Because some of what is helpful when you're learning language is learning sort of intensity of feelings. But really, in order to be fully emotionally intelligent, what people need to learn are all the specific words that can be connected to a global feeling. So, for instance, on page 10, there's a happiness wheel. And the happiness wheel has happy in the middle. And then here are all the different words that come out of the happy in the center. It's like spokes from the sun. Giddy, silly, pleased, joyful, merry, content, sunny, elated, ecstatic, glad, amused, cheerful, poppy, hoppy. I like that one. Delighted, stoked, psyched, giddy. So, I mean, that is a lot of different terminology that stems from one concept, Happiness. Okay, I'm going to do another one. There's a sadness cloud. And the sadness cloud has all these words dripping from it like rain. So if you feel sad, are you weepy, dismal, disappointed, down, somber, heartbroken, sorry, bummed, out, blue, teary, glum, low, melancholy. Again, if you want to be emotionally intelligent, saying I'm sad, great. That's step one. Saying I'm bummed out because fill in the blank or I'm sorry because fill in the blank are much more specific iterations of your sadness. And it helps kids communicate not just the capital H how of how they feel, but the very detailed how so that you can get into conversation about what to do with those feelings.

[B]

Yeah, and sometimes we have to get through some barriers with kids before we can even get to the initial I'm sad, I'm happy, and then dig down into some granularity. Because very often kids will just say, I'm fine.

[A]

Because very, very often.

[B]

Because, you know, some kids, they don't know how they feel, and they're not sure how to express it. Some kids, for whatever reason, don't feel permission to say, I'm not fine. There's something wrong, but I don't know what it is. Right. Whether they're at home, in a classroom setting, on a sports field, there's all sorts of reasons why they don't feel like they can say, I'm not okay right now. When you get into tweens and teens, they're sort of putting up a boundary or a barrier with us because maybe it feels private, maybe it's something going on with a friend, and they don't want to tell us because they think from now on, we're going to hate that friend once we know what happened. Right. Sometimes they've messed up and they've made a mistake and they're feeling crappy about it, but they don't want to talk about it because they're worried we're going to get mad at them. Sometimes they are feeling so down that they don't want to frighten us with how they're feeling.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there's a million reasons why kids put up that initial roadblock. And so the first challenge to being able to foster emotional intelligence is getting past that roadblock. And sometimes it feels like, oh, let's get into it. Like, let's dive in. But often that's, like, actually the least successful way in. So it can help to actually back off a little bit, even though that's not our instinct. So when I notice a kid who's having a hard time, and I can tell they're sort of keeping me at arm's length, I'll talk about how I'm doing, and I'll do it, like, in a pretty granular and specific way. Like, oof, it was a tough day. I had this experience. It was really hard. I can feel it kind of sitting with me for the rest of the day. I'm feeling kind of down. My chest is hurting a little bit. You know, I'll. I'll sort of model for them what it looks like to unpack something that doesn't feel great, but I don't necessarily have all the specificity for it. And that's what one way into getting past the sort of just I'm fine barrier.

[A]

Yeah. So there are going to be five sort of key elements to emotional intelligence. You just named the first one. It's self awareness. It's sitting with yourself and identifying how you feel and then taking it a step further, understanding why you feel that way. That's what that modeling is. And it's really important. It's really important. In fact, when we are in conflict with other people, sometimes it's lack of self awareness, lack of that very first step that's really at the root of the conflict. I'm mad, and I don't even know why. And when we can stop and name it and figure it out, then we can be in conversation with someone and get through it. So, yeah, for sure. You know, hurdle number one is down with self awareness, the second key element to emotional intelligence.

[B]

It's a biggie.

[A]

She knows that someone on this podcast, maybe named Gara, is not perfect at this.

[B]

Well, nobody is. That's why it's such a biggie. I mean, it's, like, hard. It's the Holy Grail.

[A]

It's the Holy Grail. Okay, so I'm going to share that. Vanessa and I have, like, the best work marriage ever. We have bumps that we hit. We're re. We've gotten excellent at communicating about it because we have self awareness, and we work really hard at stopping early and talking about the things, whatever the thing is. Okay, Vanessa, you're gonna laugh at this example, but I still am. Like, have a horrible queasy feeling in my stomach thinking back to a conversation you and I had with someone we worked with a year ago. It was a full year ago, and I was not able to keep things pulled together. I couldn't control my emotions. I reacted impulsively. And it wasn't that I did anything so horrible, but the tone and the way I said what I said was not okay and created its own hurdle. So you got to have self management. That's key. Element number two. And if you don't, it creates its own downstream impacts.

[B]

Right. I mean, also, I know what example you're thinking of is also out of character. So we can't all have control of our emotions all of the time. And so part of self management is recognizing what things set us off and make it harder for us to control our emotions as an adult. And as adults, we get really good at it. Right? Like, if you think about all the places, Cara, where you have control over your emotions, you're regulated, you're thoughtful, you take a pause. Like, we're all entitled to have moments where we're not. I am generally good at it a lot of places. And also get. Sometimes get really pissed off. At my kids and say and do things that I shouldn't. And so my thing is how quickly can I own and recognize and repair when I don't control my emotions? That's always my goal. But like each of us has that thing and our kids are going to have it a lot more times and a lot more places. And then there are the kids who are really controlled all the time. And that's another thing to think about.

[A]

So I want to talk about that because when we talk about like it's easy to talk about self management in terms of ourselves, right? But let's talk about it in terms of kids. And I'm thinking about the two extremes on either end. So one is the group that are really impulsive all the time and they don't control either their emotions or their behaviors or both. And that's something that usually the outside world can see. And these days the beauty of that is there's a lot of support and help for kids who are in those circumstances. And educators in particular, healthcare providers in particular are not afraid of that. They understand it a lot better than they used to. That's that super impulsive end. I want to go to the other end, which is exactly where you started to go, which is the kid who is fully pulled together all the time. The kid who always does the right thing, always turns in everything on time, you know, is like that kid and

[B]

never gets mad, never gets overly emotional, doesn't think you're cool. Correct. It's like, it's so funny because I was not like that and neither was my younger brother, but my sister, older sister was, and if she were sitting here on this podcast, she'd be like, look out for those kids because those kids need permission to shout and get angry and get upset. Like we were so grateful to those kids because they don't do those things and they make our lives easier. But it's not always so great for them that they're not doing those things.

[A]

It's actually not great for them. There is a group of them who really struggle with a lot of anxiety around keeping it all pulled together. There is a group, and it might overlap with the anxious group who spend a massive chunk of their time being there for other people and helping. They're so emotionally intelligent and they manage themselves so well that they actually cannot figure out how to prioritize what they need because they're so busy being there for someone else. As kids get older, that very highly self managed individual might always be the designated driver and might feel a tremendous amount of responsibility when it comes to managing other people's behaviors. Or they might be the emergency call in the middle of the night for 10 people. So there's a lot on kids who are exceptionally well self managed. And you know, this speaks to how like everything else in life, moderation tends to be the sweet spot. Having self awareness, having self management, these are really good things. But you can have too much of them. Right. And that can be a heavy load. So as we walk through the other key elements of emotional intelligence, I think it's important for us to acknowledge that there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Right, right.

[B]

And then, you know, we move to social awareness. So understanding other people's emotions and perspectives, and this is someone that is really tied to developmental stage. So like we can try to get a five or seven year old to say like, oh, what do you think that person was feeling? But they don't necessarily have the metacognition to really have that sense. That comes later. That comes in like later elementary school and well into middle school. Middle school is like a constant stew of trying to understand other people's emotions and perspectives and reflecting it back on yourself. So these are things we can build and sort of train kids in, but if they're not sort of demonstrating the kind of empathy or awareness that we would want at those younger ages, we gotta be patient. Like, it will come. They are just not developmentally there. And tied to that are the relationship skills. Right. So the ability to communicate, to handle conflicts effectively, to express your emotion and hear somebody else's feelings and then come to a compromise or a conclusion. Like as adults, many of us are still very much working on these skills in our marriages and our friendships and our extended families and our work relationships. So, like, some of these skills are ongoing life skills. Some of us are more naturally able to handle this stuff effectively. Others of us. It takes a lot of training and coaching and all of those things. And I think that it becomes one of those things where if you have a household with siblings or multiple people living in, it's a great way to practice it. If you have an only child, then it's a great opportunity to socialize them in those ways, put them in situations where they're having to manage those conflicts or compromises because it may. They may not have all the natural opportunities in the household to do those things.

[A]

Yeah, so I want to just gender layer on the gender piece to those two elements of emotional intelligence. So you just went through social awareness and relationship skills. These are elements three and four, those do tend to be highly gendered, especially as kids hit the tween and teen years. We are still not at a place where males are strongly encouraged to be socially aware and express it. We are still not at a place where they are strongly encouraged to communicate within relationships. I don't want to say they're not encouraged to communicate. They're not encouraged to over communicate. Like they're not encouraged to confirm that they. Yes, I understand what I did. Hey, do you want to know what you did? And I think a lot of that is this bucket of research that is yet to be done around testosterone and surging testosterone being associated with the quieting of boys. Again, there is no data here. So if you're a researcher, go for it, please collect the data. But there's no way, there's no way that surges in testosterone are not associated with this in some way, shape or form. Because both social awareness and communication within relationships, they get quiet in tween and teen boys in ways they don't in tween and teen girls. And I just don't think it's 100% socialized.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

We'll be right back, but first a word from our sponsors.

[D]

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[B]

So I had a really interesting experience with one of my kids who is kind of the. Underneath the surface there's stuff going on, but he's like Mr. Easygoing and he's less likely to just sort of lay it all out there the way some of my other kids are. And we were talking about something and he said, yeah, I don't really want to talk about it. And I realized I had never explicitly said to him, you know what? We are in a family where we're in conversation about this kind of stuff. That's our contract in our family. I said, you've learned about social contracting in school and how societies have contracts about the way things work. The contract in our family is that we talk about our feelings. We're all going to do it differently, and we're going to do it at different times and different ways. But, like, we are in relationship with each other, and part of that relationship requires communication. So you may not feel like talking about it right now, but this is actually something we have to talk about. And I expect that over time, we will talk about lots of things. And. And that's part of our agreement as being part of a family. And I, you know, I didn't force it in the moment, but when I revisited it, I reminded him of, that's our agreement. That's how we love and support each other. That's how we are in relationship with each other. And it was weird. It was a little bit of an experiment. I didn't know if it was gonna work as a way to encourage him. But now when this kid comes home and it's like, hey, how was your day? Fine. I actually now say, I need more than that. Like, pick one thing that happened today. I need more than that. It doesn't have to be about you. It can be about something else. But, like, you got to give me a little something more. I'll give you a little something more. It's a little bit of, like, slowly pulling them out. What may be partially impacted by, you know, hormones and testosterone. But, like, just like girls who are crying hysterically, maybe because of the estrogen coursing and looping through their bodies, we don't just leave them with that and are like, all right, I guess you're just gonna, like, cry for the next four years. We are like, hey, what are some tools to manage these ups and downs? With boys, we can say, hey, this is part of a relationship. We're gonna be in communication. I'm not gonna tell you how to communicate. Just don't be a jerk, but let's do it. So I think they can also be trained as well. And Cara, in decoding boys, you've got wonderful in that book about sort of drawing kids out and strategies people can use to. To pull kids respectfully and gently into conversation.

[A]

So we got self awareness, self management, social awareness, relationship skills. The fifth key element of emotional intelligence is decision making. And this is really about making choices that respect your emotions, how you feel, and other people's emotions. So you can't do that if you don't have language. You can't do that if you don't have self awareness. You can't do that if you're not managing the situation very well. You can't do that if you don't have a Teacher like Vanessa. Vanessa, you coming over later? Because I think that contract is brilliant. Social awareness, relationship skills.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it all lands at making decisions. And actually that's where we see emotional intelligence play out. It's how someone acts, behaves, what they say, their body language in any given situation at any given time that shows. Oh, they've got it. They understand.

[B]

Yeah. And decision making, when emotions are calm and you're feeling good and connected to people, like, amazing. But how often does that happen? And decision making as it relates to oneself, as it relates to other people is often happening in moments where we're elevated, we're angry, we're hurt, we're excited, whatever it is. And I have just found it so fascinating working with kids over the years, Cara. Like, we get to talk to these awesome kids across the country and their self reflection is amazing. Their social awareness is amazing. Like, they really have these skills. And this gets to your point earlier, that we are talking about this stuff more with kids. And then you get to decision making and they have like elements one through four, and then they get to number five. And sometimes things like go out the window sometimes. I mean, oftentimes. And we've got to give them credit for items one through four, even if they don't get five. Right. Because they're building the building blocks, they're getting the foundation nice and strong and they just. There's a punch list on the finishes on that house. Right. There's a lot to do on the punch list, but they are fully capable of doing it. And I think letting kids know that we have faith in them, that we believe in them, that they've done so much wonderful work up till now to get ready for, you know, making great decisions. All of that helps them build the confidence and the ability that they can ultimately make good decisions.

[A]

And what's amazing is there's data to back all of this up. So we know that especially teenagers who have higher emotional intelligence, who hit those, actually the first four really are better at number five, better at making good decisions. They're also better at managing their stress. They are better at building strong friendships. They are grittier, they build resilience. And you made a reference to this study early on at the top of the podcast. It is a study that came out in 2023, and the title is Emotional Intelligence and Resilience Outcomes in Adolescent Period. Is Knowledge Really Strength. Very exciting title. And the conclusion is basically, yes.

[B]

And one important part of this is helping kids figure out when they don't have enough skills or enough capability within them when they need to ask for help, when they need support from friends or trusted adults. Because you don't just magically come out of the earth fully formed. This is a long process of growing roots and trunks and branches. And part of that is being in relationship to other people and asking for help. And I think a huge part that we can't tell kids enough times is that asking for help is not weak. It is actually really, really strong. And in our high school curriculum, when we're talking about emotional intelligence and we're talking about the intersection with mental health, we encourage them over and over and over that getting the help you need, getting the support you need, means a lower risk of long term mental health issues. It means stronger relationships with others and greater happiness and success, academic performance, well being, when people feel like they have a community. So we have to flip the narrative that getting help, getting support is a weakness and turn it into a strength in kids.

[A]

I mean, I would even make it the sixth essential. Like, I actually think it's essential. You cannot be emotionally intelligent and think you don't need help. We all need help and support. And getting help and support makes us more capable of understanding how we feel and understanding how everyone else around us feels, making us more emotionally intelligent. It's like this fascinating cycle. And, you know, it's really tricky, Vanessa, because at the end of the day, emotional intelligence, it's not just a key skill. I would argue that people who develop emotional intelligence have an easier path through life day to day, being able to connect with people and make people feel seen. Take any scenario, and that scenario is, generally speaking, easier to navigate. If you can do that, it is a true leg up. A true leg up. And a lot of times people think of EQ as offsetting iq. Like, oh, you could either be really, quote, unquote, smart, which is iq, which, by the way, we can do a whole podcast on that, because that's not true. But you could be, you could have a high IQ or high eq. And I think the point that we want to make here, and certainly in the classroom with kids, is the two are very separate. And there are lots of different kinds of intelligence that are measured in classrooms, including academic intelligence. But there's nature intelligence and there's musical intelligence. There are all these different types of intelligences from the Gardner research that goes back now decades. But eq, it's not a pie. It's not like this isn't a zero sum game where we're balancing how much EQ we have and how much iq we have everyone. Everyone, regardless of the way their brain is wired, has capacity to learn some of the skills of EQ which will benefit everyone. And so, you know, it's one of the reasons why I think the your comments about neurodiversity are so important. We have long recognized the importance of fostering EQ in kids who have certain types of neurodiversity. It should be fostered in everyone. It's like when I was in pediatrics, when I was in practice, we used to say, oh my God, if every single kid could get physical therapy and occupational therapy, they would all be better off because all of those skills are helpful to all people. And the same is true of emotional intelligence.

[B]

And I just want to shout out to the folks who didn't grow up in households where this was valued or encouraged, where maybe you haven't necessarily built all those skills yourself yet. This is an area where it's never too late, it's never too early, and it's never too late. And the research tells us these are lifelong skills that get built and for our own well being and the well being of our relationships, they're really important. So this is one where like, go ahead and learn alongside with your kid. Maybe no one ever taught you about sex. Maybe no one ever taught you about emotional intelligence or how to foster it or develop it. One of the books I really love on this topic, Alyssa Campbell, dives into this in Bigger Kids, Bigger Feelings and really unpacks it in depth. So if you're not sure and this is something you're really working on, go there and check it out because there's a lot of fun and interesting things to learn about ourselves and to strengthen our relationships with others.

[A]

Vanessa, you have given me a lot of gifts. One of the gifts that you have given me is a better structure, a better scaffold to develop emotional intelligence. This learning does not stop when we graduate from high school or when we graduate from college. And in fact, we get better and better at expressing ourselves, figuring out how we feel and, and understanding how other people feel as we get older. And I just want to thank you because you are particularly good at identifying and naming your feelings, telling me what those feelings are, giving me grace when I've missed it. And then this is the key one, giving me credit when I make a change and it works for you. And I have taken that well, it's really a gift and I've taken it and I've used it in every corner of my life. I have tried to. So one of the places to land with emotional intelligence is recognize that as the adult in the room, your emotional intelligence is growing and evolving all the time, too. And there are going to be people who come into your life who have more EQ than you do. Learn from them, thank them, and mirror them. Because what has come from that has been only good in my life. So thank you.

[B]

That's such a nice thing. Thank you. You don't have to get me a holiday gift because you just gave me

[A]

happy holidays,

[B]

happy birthday, happy everything. You're great. Here you go. With a bow and a ribbon.

[A]

No, is that not emotionally intelligent?

[B]

I mean, it's brilliant, frankly. So I think, to Kara's point, letting our kids know that there's stuff that we're still working on, that we're still learning how to do, that we're still figuring out how to express is such a gift to our kids so that they don't see it as black and white zero sum game. They see it as an ever evolving skill. And make fun of yourself when you fall short because that gives them permission to say, oh, you know what, I gotta get better at this. Para, eq, iq, ei, whatever it's called. It is a pleasure doing it all with you. Thank you so much for listening. You can email us with questions, feedback, or episode request [e-mail] if you want

[A]

to learn more about what we do to make this whole stage of life less awkward for everyone involved. Our parent membership, our school health ed curriculum, our keynote talks, and more are

[B]

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