Podcast Summary: “It’s Not Fair!”
Podcast: This Is So Awkward
Hosts: Dr. Cara Natterson (A) and Vanessa Kroll Bennett (B)
Episode Date: February 3, 2026
Theme: Exploring how young people—and adults—experience, express, and learn about fairness, and how adults can skillfully address cries of “It’s not fair!” in homes, schools, and society at large.
Episode Overview
In this episode, Dr. Cara Natterson and Vanessa Kroll Bennett dive deep into the complexities of fairness—what it means, how children understand it at different ages, why the “It’s not fair!” refrain matters so much during puberty (and beyond), and how adults can respond productively. The conversation is rooted in developmental science, personal anecdotes, and their experience with curriculum design, aiming to give kids (and the adults in their lives) tools for navigating fairness, equity, and conflict resolution.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Developmental Roots of Fairness in Children
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Early Development:
- Research suggests that children as young as 12 months begin developing a sense of fairness, with especially complex ideas about it emerging by age three. Previous theories placed this development closer to age eight—but it just becomes more sophisticated by then.
- (A, 00:00)
- Kids have an intrinsic awareness and emotional response to fairness and inequality, which can influence conflict and require adult interpretation.
- (B, 00:19)
- Research suggests that children as young as 12 months begin developing a sense of fairness, with especially complex ideas about it emerging by age three. Previous theories placed this development closer to age eight—but it just becomes more sophisticated by then.
-
Fairness as a Top Complaint:
- “If you are going to offer up one of the top five things a kid says to you about a rule… the only one that everyone knows is it’s not fair.”
- (B, 00:52)
- Both recall expressing these feelings as children themselves, emphasizing it’s a universal experience.
- (A, 01:07; B, 01:15)
- “If you are going to offer up one of the top five things a kid says to you about a rule… the only one that everyone knows is it’s not fair.”
2. The Meaning(s) of Fairness
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Equality vs. Equity:
- Fairness can mean both “everyone gets the same” (equality) and “everyone gets what they need” (equity). These are often at odds.
- (A, 04:00)
- “There’s one way of seeing something as fair that’s legitimate, and then there’s a totally different way of seeing things as fair that’s equally legitimate that conflicts with the first.”
- (B, 02:02)
- Fairness can mean both “everyone gets the same” (equality) and “everyone gets what they need” (equity). These are often at odds.
-
Classroom Curriculum Visual (Baseball Analogy):
- They describe a visual from their curriculum:
- Three people watching a baseball game from behind a fence.
- Left: All standing on the ground (tall can see, short can’t).
- Right: Each stands on a different-sized box so all can see.
- Both are “fair,” one by equality, the other by equity.
- (B, 04:41)
- They describe a visual from their curriculum:
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Lingering Misconceptions:
- The image sparks debate: Some see “same treatment” as fairness, others see only the equitable outcome as fairness.
- (A, 07:00)
- The image sparks debate: Some see “same treatment” as fairness, others see only the equitable outcome as fairness.
3. Nuanced Understandings and Social Lessons
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Kids’ Deep Sensitivity & Analysis:
- Experiments on Halloween candy show children are attuned not just to equal shares, but reasons for differences. Kids care about equal respect and context.
- (A, 07:54; B, 08:43)
- “Kids are so aware of all these permutations. They have so much empathy and sophistication… that we don’t always give them credit for.”
- (A, 09:09)
- Experiments on Halloween candy show children are attuned not just to equal shares, but reasons for differences. Kids care about equal respect and context.
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Societal Shift Toward Equity:
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“I think we can all feel proud that we have moved as a society to this place. Of recognizing that you give people what they need in order to establish the starting point for fairness.”
- (B, 09:59)
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(A added a reality check: Not everyone has embraced this standard and disparities still emerge in practice.)
- (A, 15:07; B, 15:24)
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4. Fairness in School Situations
a. Shared Space & Conflict Resolution
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Example: Two kids sharing a school table, one taking up more space. What’s fair?
- (A, 16:34; B, 17:16)
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Building Skills:
- Adults should teach kids to follow “It’s not fair” with why—to encourage communication and mutual understanding.
- (B, 18:54)
- “I feel like I don’t have enough space and that the table…the use of the table isn’t equal or fair. Can we figure out a way...”
- (A, 20:18)
- Adults should teach kids to follow “It’s not fair” with why—to encourage communication and mutual understanding.
-
Memorable Moment:
- Vanessa quotes a flight attendant:
“Honey, closed mouths do not get fed. Ask for what you want.”
- (A, 21:16)
- Powerful encouragement for kids (and adults!) to self-advocate.
- Vanessa quotes a flight attendant:
b. Extra Time & Accommodations
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Complexities: Extra time for tests can be contentious, especially if some perceive misuse or as “unfair advantage.”
- (A, 23:01)
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Framing in Equity:
- “The reason that this concept took flight in the first place was really to level the playing field…It was to offer glasses to the people who couldn’t see.”
- (B, 24:49)
- There’s vulnerability in needing accommodations; not all needs are equally addressed.
- “The reason that this concept took flight in the first place was really to level the playing field…It was to offer glasses to the people who couldn’t see.”
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Focus on Values & Messaging:
- When kids ask why others “game the system,” return to family/community values:
“We don’t take resources we don’t need. We ask for what we need, but we don’t hoard resources.”
- (A, 29:29)
- When kids ask why others “game the system,” return to family/community values:
c. Group Projects: The Classic Unfairness Minefield
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Kids (and adults!) struggle with group work: some shoulder the burden (“anticipatory takeover”—B, 35:29), some fall short, some are left adrift.
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Advice for Kids:
- Give group members a chance, clarify roles, ask open questions (“Do you have any questions? Can I help at all?” – A, 37:37).
- Conversation, not accusation.
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Realistic View:
- “This is life. Life is one big group project.”
- (B, 40:39; A, 40:41)
- These are skills for adult life, not just school.
- “This is life. Life is one big group project.”
5. Fairness in Families
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Sibling Treatment:
- Parenting decisions often require tailored approaches that aren’t “equal”—e.g., Instagram use delayed for one child due to emerging research specific to girls’ mental health.
- (A, 41:21)
- Parenting decisions often require tailored approaches that aren’t “equal”—e.g., Instagram use delayed for one child due to emerging research specific to girls’ mental health.
-
Food Allergies Example:
- Is it fairer/safer for everyone to avoid a child’s allergen, or should the child learn to manage risk?
- (B, 43:51)
- Is it fairer/safer for everyone to avoid a child’s allergen, or should the child learn to manage risk?
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Key Insight:
- Transparency and explanation are vital, as is making fairness an ongoing conversation, open to feedback.
- (A, 45:01)
- Transparency and explanation are vital, as is making fairness an ongoing conversation, open to feedback.
6. Teaching Fairness & Values—Foundational Lesson
- Why States Require Teaching Fairness:
- “Fairness is the starting point for a values-based conversation. It’s not enmeshed with values. It’s actually really objective.”
- (B, 46:08)
- “A house needs a foundation so that you can build whatever style you want on top. And I think the same is true when it comes to conversations around fairness.”
- (B, 48:52)
- “Fairness is the starting point for a values-based conversation. It’s not enmeshed with values. It’s actually really objective.”
Notable Quotes & Moments
-
On “It’s not fair!”
“The only one that everyone knows is it’s not fair.”
— (B, 00:52) -
On Equity:
“Fairness is really about treating people according to what they need.”
— (B, 09:59) -
On Speaking Up:
“Closed mouths do not get fed. Ask for what you want.”
— (A quoting a flight attendant, 21:16) -
On Values:
“We don’t take resources we don’t need. We take the resources we need, but we don’t hoard resources…That’s not the values of our family…”
— (A, 29:29) -
On Life Skills:
“This is life. Life is one big group project.”
— (A & B, 40:39–40:41) -
On Foundations:
“…There is a body of information related to fairness that is not connected to values. And there is a very important layer…that is connected to their values...until they have [foundation], you can’t get into the nitty gritty of what’s really fair...”
— (B, 46:08–48:52)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:00–04:41: Early development of fairness; definitions of fairness (equality vs. equity)
- 04:41–07:42: Curriculum visual (baseball game/fence analogy); research insights
- 09:59–15:26: Equity embraced vs. controversies; role of school communities
- 16:34–22:36: Real-world classroom scenarios; conflict resolution skills; advocacy
- 23:01–29:29: Extra time accommodations; gaming the system, fairness and values
- 30:53–41:21: Group work challenges, real-life parallels; advocating and navigating group dynamics
- 41:21–46:08: Family fairness dilemmas (social media, food allergies); ongoing conversations and explanation
- 46:08–end: Why foundational teaching on fairness matters; separating fact from values; closing thoughts
Episode Takeaway
Fairness is layered, personal, and evolving—rooted in both objective facts and family/community values. Teaching kids about fairness involves more than rules; it demands giving them language, empathy, space for dialogue, and the courage to speak up (in age-appropriate ways). Whether at home, at school, or in broader society, the challenge for adults is to move beyond simply correcting complaints to building lasting skills for life.
For further resources, curriculum details, and to support a less awkward puberty for all, visit: lessawkward.com and myumla.com.