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- [00:01]
A
Kara At Great Wolf Lodge, there's adventure for the whole family. I'm excited to check out the lodge in the Poconos, which is close to me and with 23 lodges across the country, there's probably one near all of you too. You and your pack can splash away in the indoor water park where it's always a toasty 84 degrees. There's a wave pool, a lazy river and a bottle bunch of massive water slides, including ones your family can enjoy all together.
- [00:32]
B
They even have adventure packed attractions from Magi Quest, a live action game that kids can play throughout the lodge, to the Northern Lights Arcade. And there's also a bunch of great dining options and complimentary daily events like nightly dance parties, all under one roof. So bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Learn more@greatwolf.com that's G-R E A T W O L F.com and strengthen the pack.
- [01:02]
C
We talk about like mini C creativity, which is these little moments of low stakes, process oriented moments versus more like big C creativity or pro C creativity where you are identifying as a creative, as this type of creative and that's your identity. We're really interested in these mini C moments that don't have to be your whole identity, but it can be a very easy way to express, explore and become curious.
- [01:31]
A
Hey Blythe and Mallory, welcome to the podcast.
- [01:35]
C
Hi. Thank you.
- [01:36]
D
So excited to be here.
- [01:38]
A
So Cara and I have each had the privilege of meeting you in person and seeing you in action. I did in New York and Cara did in la and we saw your wisdom and your energy and in a room full of people. And now we're going to translate all of your thinking and ideas around creativity to our listeners who are probably racking their brains how to inspire creativity in their own families, in their homes, in themselves. We are often overlooked as adults and you two are the perfect folks to talk about it because you are lifelong creativity advocates, design thinkers, messmakers, all of which Cara and I are not. And. And so we're thrilled.
- [02:24]
B
Talk to yourself.
- [02:25]
A
Yeah, yeah. To have Cara actually is like a very sneaky obsession with design and creativity. My creativity only comes out as writing, but I know you guys are going to correct all the statements I'm making now and tell me that everyone can be creative and you come from different sides of this world. Blaithe, you were co founder and chief creative officer of Stella and Dot Com. Mallory, you are very classy. You spent over a decade as a VP at Sotheby's before launching a career as an artist, designer and creative director. And then together you have created an entire organization, Daily Creative and your book, Daily Creative, which is really the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
- [03:09]
D
Thank you.
- [03:10]
A
Sorry for that delay, but I was grabbing it off my shelf. It is so, so stunning. The five minute habit to rewire your brain was just published in early 2026. So we are going to dive in. Welcome to you both and we're ready to, we're ready to learn.
- [03:29]
C
Thank you. We're, we're excited to get into it.
- [03:32]
B
Okay, so I'm going to jump in and say at my event in LA where I met. Not my event, at the event which I attended in Los Angeles, it was a very hands on event. It was amazing where everyone got to explore their creativity. And we'll talk a little bit about how you help people baby step into it in your book. But I was the person in the room who, before we explored our creativity, raised my hand and said, it's such a beautiful book and I don't want to mess it up. How do I do that and explore my creativity? And I think, Blythe, you were the one who answered and said, I've met you in every room that I've spoken in because you're an archetype and it's okay. There are ways to both see something as beautiful and not feel super confident about your creativity and use it anyhow. So maybe we can start there. With my unwillingness to mess up your book. Vanessa's like, of course you didn't want to mess up the book.
- [04:44]
A
Well, I just want to say my question was how do we get away from our perfectionism and fear of failure by embracing creativity for the sake of creativity. So 3,000 miles apart, we were asking not dissimilar questions.
- [05:01]
D
That's so true. That's funny.
- [05:03]
C
I would say we love having perfectionists in the room because perfectionists really need this work. Creativity in general is one of the most underutilized tools for mental wellness. And this was very mission driven for us. And I think that the things that come along with perfectionism, which is not wanting to take risks necessarily, like maybe a little shame, very focused on sort of what the outcome is versus the process. We wanted to create an easy way to sort of stair step people into more of like a growth mindset, more of a risk taking mindset of I can experiment and this is very low stakes. If I mess this up, it really doesn't matter. Like the purpose is not to produce something. The purpose is to explore through the process. So hopefully these exercises help you sort of start to train your brain to limit that self editing critic that's telling you, oops, I might do this wrong and, and get into a mindset of curiosity.
- [06:02]
A
So I just am. For our YouTube watchers, I just want to show some of the pages in the book. And sitting at a table doing this with different women in the room was so interesting because I could see how different people approached the exercises in the book differently. I will just say I did not do anything in the book because I had the same reaction as Cara did. And I also have beautiful colored pencils that I don't want to open because they're so perfectly sharpened and I don't want to mess up the tips of the pencils. So we clearly need you both. Mallory, can you talk a little bit about something that Blythe mentioned just a minute ago, which is about the benefits, the wellness, the value of creativity, and outside of creating a product.
- [06:55]
D
Yes. I mean, just to clarify something Bly said, we think of creativity as a habit, not a talent. So I think that's the first place to get your mind in overcoming the perfectionism or worrying about messing up the book is just to dive in and just show up for the making. You don't have to do anything else. It's that simple. And you know, creativity lights up your brain in a really specific way. It connects areas with the brain that don't normally talk to each other. And that's where the magic happens. Because you make connections, it promotes innovative thinking, sharpens your focus, and it allows you to get into that flow state where you are almost lose track of time because you're so into what you're doing. But the benefits go, you know, so much far beyond that. It, it helps fight dementia. It actually, it's been studied and found to encourage a more open mind. It builds neural pathways and cognitive flexibility, promotes mindfulness and so much more. So, you know, it's hard to, to sum it up quickly, but we are so passionate about it and we, that's why we really want to help people dive in and get started.
- [08:00]
B
I mean, I want to be clear that my type of, my brand of perfectionism is not about making a perfect product. For myself, it was about, and I know I'm not the only person who feels this way, but I might be the only person on this podcast who feels this way. It was about one day when my children find this book and flip through it and see evidence of what it, what, who was my mom kind of thing. Like, it's so Funny, it's this legacy moment of thinking about what does my creativity say about me as a person and what part of my story will it write. And I think that has been my hang up because I am a very creative person and I won't let myself, I won't let my creativity creativity flag fly because of the perfectionism. And I will say, reading the book, one of the things that was the most helpful, it is not a heavy read, but it, every word in there matters. And there is a lot of very sort of clean, clear argument rationale, I would say, for why doing these things matters. And it speaks to understanding how creativity and memory are connected. It speaks to, you know, you imagine creativity just being watercolors or, you know, drawing or painting. And the book, there are word exercises that look at vocabulary and creativity. There's just, there are so many corners of creativity being honored. And I found that it was like rolling out the welcome mat for me and it was giving me permission to not sort of see that creativity legacy as I'm going to try to watercolor right now. And whatever I put on this page is what my kids are going to see as my watercolor product for identity formation and creativity. I want to connect these two things. We're going to talk in a minute about how younger people use creativity in their identity formation. For those of us who are, feel a little entrenched in our identity and feel like the hill that they have to overcome here is a little bit more of a mountain than a molehill. Can you give us some advice? How do we let that guard down? How do we begin to reshape our, our identity as not just creatives, but as creators? Because I think that's what the book really aims to do.
- [10:45]
D
I think what you said is so important because there is a distinction between perfectionism, but also fear and just fear of getting started. And that those are both huge hurdles that a lot of people face. The reason we designed the book the way we did is to make it, like you said, easy baby steps where you don't really. There's, there's not that much at stake. So it might just be a noticing and you can start really small, noticing colors that you like together, noticing, you know, sounds. It doesn't have to be a drawing that you're making or, you know, something more involved. It can be something really, really simple and that still sparks the creative brain.
- [11:21]
C
So, and just jumping onto that, I think people tend to conflate technical drawing ability with creativity. And it's, it's a message you may have gotten in school or our kids may be getting, you know, in art class with a class that's too focused on, oh, whose horse looks like a actual horse. In reality, as Mallory said, lowering the stakes and taking the emphasis off the finished product is, is amazing. And, and we tried to do that with having like word exercises and as Mallory said, noticing exercises you can do on your dog walk where there's not this sort of legacy thing lying around. With my own kids, what I do to encourage them is through low stakes materials. So instead of having like beautiful heavy watercolor paper, we have scrap paper where they, they're like, you know, doodling on the backs of things. And it's almost this premise that it's probably gonna be thrown away at the end and that that's not the point. So I think creativity is incredible to insert in any of life's pauses, whether you're transitioning to an empty nester or we just talked to a community, Power Paws community of sort of reinventing the, like life as a stay at home mom. And you know, even though those times can be incredible, have so much emotional upheaval, carving out only five minutes in a really low stakes way to start exploring your point of view, or you could another way to say it is your identity. What are your personal preferences? What shapes are you drawn to? What do you like to observe in nature?
- [12:56]
B
Do you have any hacks for how to make that five minutes more accessible?
- [13:01]
C
Yes.
- [13:01]
B
Like, is it having the materials right there ready to go?
- [13:05]
C
That is a huge one. And that's what, again, that's how I encourage my teens to do it. I always have a mason jar of markers on the dining room table and then a stack of scrap paper. And my daughter, the other weekend, my husband was like, can we please put that stuff away? It's like always out. And we put it away. And she was like, impediments. I'm not doing it. I'm getting the phone. And I was like, see, you gotta have it out. So that there's literally no impediment to doing it.
- [13:33]
A
Some of us have doodlers. My daughter is a major doodler and was kind of made to feel crummy about being a doodler for many years. Like every parent teacher conference was like, we noticed that she's doing a lot of doodling in her notebooks. And in fact, there's research that tells us that doodling is a helpful way to focus. Depending on your 100% absolutely, you know, your neurotype. And she then turned her doodling into a graphic novel design and an independent study in art class. So like we kind of collectively removed the shame from doodling as something that was like to be valued and worthwhile and sort of turned into a cartooning. So I want to segue for a minute into the intersection. Kara asked about our identities and our creativity and how to sort of get away from the entrenchment we feel. But I want to think about kids identities and I'll give you a perfect example. My youngest kid is an awesome. He's like a performer, he should be a performer and he's super funny. Like I want him to be on stage and like doing theater and all this stuff and he's just like no, that's so embarrassing. I don't want to do it because his identity is tied to at this stage which is totally age appropriate for anyone listening. They kids care so much about peer approval and what do their peers think and that is a hundred million percent part of their development. However, I'm scared that he has this creativity and this ability and it's not going to find expression because of the social forces at work that are sort of saying to him, you know, no, this isn't valuable in this context or this school community. And I'm wondering, Blythe, how we can think about our kids identity formation and how we can communicate to them in ways because other kids are worried they don't want to do it because they worry they're not going to be good at it. Right? They're worried they're not going to be, they're not talented or the end product won't be good. Getting back Mallory, to your comment earlier that it's not a talent, it's a habit. So Blythe, I want to start with you. How do we communicate to them about creativity and about their development without kind of relying on the sort of achievement oriented culture that we're a part of.
- [16:03]
C
I think that creating again these like little moments where, where it's not like all of a sudden he has to join the theater social community, you know, he can have his own identity but just creating an environment that encourages exploration and sort of you have tools, you know, ready and maybe it's like charades, you know, that's like a low stakes way almost to like practice acting in a, in a weird way. I have a very specific example of that with my own kids which is I have a sophomore 15 year old in high school and he plays football. And so you know, creativity and doing art isn't really a match with his Football crew. So I create an event, it's. We call it like waffles and watercolors on Sunday mornings where I make these awesome waffles. And he invites his team members over and the waffles is almost the bridge. Like they could come over because it's four waffles. But then they end up doing, you know, just some low stakes like watercolors and stuff. So I think if you can pair it with things like family game night or just other, other ways, not like we talk about like mini C creativity, which is these little moments of like low stakes, process oriented moments versus more like big C creativity or pro C creativity where you are identifying as a creative, as this type of creative and that's your identity. And I think that that's the distinction. And we're really interested in these mini C moments that don't have to be your whole identity, but it can be a very easy way to explore and become curious.
- [17:41]
B
So the watercolors just happen to be out there on the table.
- [17:44]
C
And markers too, because markers and whatever. Intimidating than markers. Yeah.
- [17:49]
B
So it's sort of like you're at a restaurant and they, the kids come and they give you the crayons.
- [17:53]
D
Yeah.
- [17:54]
B
Okay. And then the waffles are excellent.
- [17:57]
C
That's the key, honestly, because they have to come for the waffles, they're not going to come for the watercolors. So I've honed in on like a waffle and a waffle setup. You know, it's like a Belgian waffle. You know, it's got a lot of things.
- [18:13]
B
Do they just. The stuff is there and they just pick up the brushes and the pens or do you like. Again, there are the kinds of individuals who feel like creativity is going to happen and I'm just going to let it happen. And then there are the kind of individuals who are maybe like little more schedule oriented and outcomes oriented who might want to move that along a little bit more. But I don't know that that works very well. So how does that, what does that look like?
- [18:42]
C
I'm very hands off. My only rule is no phones at the table. So if they're sitting, there you go. And I deliberately make the waffles slowly. They're not used to just sitting. So like if there's stuff in front of them, like, I mean part of the phone usage is like just filling white space because they're comfortable with pauses. So if, if their materials in front of them and they're not allowed to be on their phone, they just inevitably start doing it. And they kind of have a sense of humor about it too, which is great because I also think humor is a way to overcome perfectionism, where they're kind of like making fun of each other, but it's not a big, you know, it's funny.
- [19:17]
A
So how often were penises drawn at the first four? So many.
- [19:23]
C
So many penises.
- [19:24]
A
So many. So again, no judgment, right?
- [19:26]
C
They get to draw whatever they want.
- [19:29]
A
Whatever they want. You gotta be. Gotta be open to the anatomical art here.
- [19:34]
C
Absolutely. I'm. I embrace anatomical art.
- [19:39]
B
We'll be right back. But first, a word from our sponsors.
- [19:44]
A
Cara. At Great Wolf Lodge, there's adventure for the whole family. I'm excited to check out the lodge in the Poconos, which is close to me. And with 23 lodges across the country, there's probably one near all of you too. You and your pack can splash away in the indoor water park where it's always a toasty 84 degrees. There's a wave pool, a lazy river, and a bunch of massive water slides, including ones your family can enjoy all together.
- [20:15]
B
They even have adventure packed attractions from Magi Quest, a live action game that kids can play throughout the lodge, to the Northern Lights arcade. And there's also a bunch of great dining options and complimentary daily events like nightly dance parties, all under one roof. So bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Learn more@greatwolf.com that's G R E A T W O L F.com and strengthen the pack. Finding a therapist is hard enough. And then there's finding one who actually takes your insurance. Rula does things differently. They partner with over 100 insurance plans, making the average copay just $15 per session. And they make it easy to find licensed providers who are accepting new patients with appointments available as soon as tomorrow. Go to rula.com Tisa to get started today. That's R U L A.com T I S A for quality therapy that's covered by insurance.
- [21:18]
A
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- [22:03]
B
You wore it every day?
- [22:04]
D
I did.
- [22:04]
B
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- [22:29]
A
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- [22:49]
B
Quince.com awkward one more very granular question because it's such a great idea, right? And I could imagine that lots of people who are perfectionists would not even realize they're engaging their creative side when stuff just happens to be around and they're a little bit bored and they pick up the whatever and draw paint, etc. Okay, so phones aren't allowed. What does that look like? Is there a phone bowl where you collect phones? Is it a statement that you make? Sort of. How do you help them get rid of the accessory that is attached to them at all times?
- [23:29]
C
So far I haven't had to collect phones or anything like that. Felt a little heavy handed to me. I just, I get my kid to not have his phone at the table and they're just, I think that they're, I guess, well mannered enough that, that if, if they know I'm coming in and out of the room, they pretty much stick to it. And it's not like it's for hours, you know, it's, it's a pretty small ask. A lot of them are pretty grateful to have breakfast, to be honest. So.
- [24:00]
B
Yes.
- [24:01]
C
Yeah, I think it's a pretty good group of kids like in terms of understanding that it's a bit of an exchange. Like I'm providing this great meal and this is my one, one rule. I don't make them like show me your watercolor before you get your waffles. I don't do any of that. It's, it's very loose except for that one thing.
- [24:22]
B
So what you've done and I, the reason I'm harping on this so Much is what you've done is you haven't just made a certain set of things available, like the materials, but you've also taken a series of things off their plates. Sorry, pun. Like the distracting device. And you've integrated sort of a check. You are the physical. You happen to be there. You're making waffles, you're serving waffles, you're doing a little cleanup, whatever. But really what you are is your facilitator. And you think these are the ingredients that we all need. Right. So, like, what's the thing that's going to stop any of us, us from exercising our creativity as well? Well, my phone, too. Right. Because it's easy, it's passive. So now let's take this concept and roll it out into sort of a bigger conversation, circling back to that identity formation, because you've done a great job of sort of giving some tools about how you can sneakily help someone see that part of their identity is being creative. But let's talk about naming creativity as part of your identity. And, Mallory, maybe you can start with, you know, sort of any insights you have when we're talking about how kids can begin to name that creativity or. Or identify as creatives.
- [25:48]
D
Well, I think. I mean, for us, part of our kind of message or reframing of creativity is that it's almost like an ultimate superpower that we all have, and kids today, plus adults too, are. We live in a landscape where we're constantly, you know, seeing a curated reel of everyone else's creativity. So it's very hard to tap into our own when we can just sit and scroll on a phone, especially for teens. But I think creativity is so important, and it's important to kind of create those moments and opportunities which could be like something that Blythe suggested, like, you know, having waffles and watercolors. But it could also be like seizing smaller opportunities, for example, in the car when you have their, you know, a little bit more focused attention as long as they don't have a phone. I will do it with my son when he's practicing driving because he can't do anything else. But there are a lot of things that you can do there. A lot of little creative activations that will just get it going. The walk to school, it could be the family meal. You could do word association. It could be funny things. I agree with Blythe. The funnier the better, because that really seems to open teens up. But, you know, I think for teens and for all people, creativity really offers a proof of self. And it's really important for everyone to be a contributor and to actually not just take in and consume other people's creativity, but to create your own. Because it matters for mental health, for identity. And the more you activate it, the more you understand who you are and you've really developed that sense of self knowledge. And it's. It's a real path to self discovery.
- [27:21]
A
So how do you respond to the kid who says, I don't want. I'm not good at it. Right. Like they, they sort of self edit before they even give it a shot. How do we reframe for them how they think about it, you know, on the walk to school or on a road trip? And do we even name it or do we just sort of reframe it?
- [27:41]
D
I don't name it. I mean, that's both of my kids, by the way. If I ask them to sit down at a table and draw something, both of my kids have dysgraphia, which it makes it really hard for them to hold a pencil. So they do not want to do it any more than they have to. So I follow their lead. And, you know, creativity can be music, it can be dance, it could be cooking. And it's just getting them involved in those acts that they may not consider creative, but letting them find it themselves. And, you know, I use that as a starting point. Just, I try to understand what they are naturally leaning towards and follow that thread and kind of. And push them into it and create the space for it.
- [28:19]
C
And Mallory, I've seen you do that, like supporting sort of their unique creative style, you know, because, I mean, it could be style for teens. The way you dress can be such a marker of both identity and creative expression and sort of not editing, you know, having the restraint to hold back your own opinions within reason, and letting your kids sort of explore the boundaries of their style.
- [28:42]
A
I just this morning. So my daughter's lacrosse team dresses up when they have a game. There's like a theme. Yeah, so like last week it was emo, and she's like, you know, black eyeliner, black bandana, and a black T shirt. And today it was Coachella. So my daughter was wearing a jean jacket and jeans. And when we were growing up, that was considered, like, not a cool thing to wear. Right? Like, you don't wear jeans with jeans. But she was, she was dressed for their Coachella themed game. And I guess, like, that's some super ugly T shirt. And I sort of looked at her and was like, that's an interesting outfit. Like, listener, don't say what I said. Right? And she was like, what do you mean by that? And I. And then I. Of course I caught myself out. I was, like, so embarrassed. And I was like, oh, I'm just, like, not used to seeing you with, like, both a jean jacket and jeans again. Just digging the hole deeper. And she was like, all right. And she just, like, went on her way. Now she's a senior in high school, so she doesn't give a damn what I'm saying about what she's wearing. And she's used to this. But I'm wondering, blame. I know I messed up, right? If people see their kids using style as an expression of creativity and identity, what can we say? What should we say? Because we know what we shouldn't say. It's what I said this morning. And I know there's way worse. I've also said the way worse stuff. What should we say? How do we name it? As a sort of, like, fun expression of identity.
- [30:23]
C
I have a senior girl, too, and I feel like I say all the wrong things because sometimes I literally just can't help myself. Especially when it comes to, like, body coverage or lack of. I really pick my battles. And my one battle, honestly, that I really stick to is the no phones at the table. And then they have to do, like, something creative in the morning right when they wake up. I try to let go of anything to do with outfits, and it's. It's so hard. But I. I kind of let the school regulate, like, the coverage issue. And by the way, I am. I have no idea if I'm doing the right thing. But I feel like anything I say, weighing in on the amount of makeup or this time never goes well. Like, nothing positive has ever come out of me commenting.
- [31:09]
A
Yeah. I mean, my rule is butt coverage. Like, breast and butt coverage. Yeah. Which is not even, like, where my comfort line is, but where I'm sort of aware of the larger zeitgeist and dirty or stained clothing, which is usually has more to do with my boys than my daughter. But, like, if those pants were worn two days this weekend and have not been washed, like, you gotta go up and change. Like, if it's. If there's evidence of dirtiness, they gotta change before they leave.
- [31:40]
D
But I think those are good rules. I mean, I. I have boys, and it's very different. I think it's. For me, at least, it's been less stressful because I'm not worried about, you know, coverage or being exposed. But for my son, he is One, my younger son is really into this, like, crazy, like, super wide leg street wear in New York City. And I kind of reframed it for myself as I cannot wait to see what he comes out in and then when he comes out, because sometimes it's so funny and we are like, what is going on in our heads. But at the same time, if I reframe it as, like, I can't wait to see when he comes out, I'm like, wow, like, you look amazing. Like, tell me how you put this together or ask them, like, how did what? You know, what made them come up with this? If it's a wild enough outfit, then you want to give them the confidence to kind of express that creativity and share with you and feel comfortable sharing with you, like, why they put it together.
- [32:29]
A
That's beautiful. I love that. I wish I could do a redo on this morning and be like, gee, I want.
- [32:35]
B
You'll have plenty of opportunity, I think. I mean, I love this because this straddles creativity and safety. Really. It's like a safety issue. Right. And it's a very interesting thing that for whatever reason, male fashion does not feel like it goes to safety, whereas female fashion does. Y. I don't know that that is true for everyone in every house. So I think there are probably examples all over the place. But in general, that's what the grappling sounds like, where it lands. And I love hearing from people who are, you know, creatives by trade that even this piece of the equation is hard. And also the cobbler's children have no shoes. And it makes me feel so much better live that you feel like that's a no go zone for you. And, you know, yes, yes, yes. You should imagine the pediatric issues that were not dealt with in my house. But it's a very interesting thing, this intersection. And I can't think of another example, maybe music creation and lyrics. That may be the only other example where we straddle kind of creativity and sort of safety in a different way. Yes. Appropriateness, legality, kindness, you know, all those things. But I can't really think of another place where we experience this. This sort of two sides of the
- [34:11]
C
coin just bringing up appropriateness. There also is an interesting thing. And Mel, I know you've run into this with conversations about cultural appropriation and style, because. And fashion designers have run into the boundaries of this as well, because so much of creativity is about borrowing. You know, it's like taking an inspiration from the world and then sort of putting it out in your own way. And in general, I do love to encourage kids to express themselves in whatever way that's coming together for them. But then there are boundaries around this is going to make other people feel a certain way. And cultural appropriation. So that's one of the interesting things that that comes up. Cultural appropriation and then obviously safety for some teens.
- [34:58]
A
So, Barry, I want to take this a step further and think about how we, as parents, we have a lot of educators who listen to this podcast, other trusted adults. Right. So my mom's rule is, I'll take you shopping for your birthday, but first I'm taking you to a museum. That's like the deal she makes. That's great.
- [35:20]
D
So they.
- [35:20]
B
So long as the museum is not the punishment.
- [35:23]
A
No, it's not. It's just that, like, she's like, I. It's my job to instill some culture in you. It's also my job to make you feel special and indulged. And so I'm going to marry those two responsibilities. So I'm wondering about how we talk about and frame creativity for kids in a way that they can hear it. Because we can all sit here and have a lovely adult conversation and be like, yes, I love that. What a great idea. But then when you. You're having that conversation with wonderfully cynical tweens and teens, they might have a different reaction. So I'm just wondering. Blythe, I know you talk about, like, low stakes. Mallory, you talk about, like, we're not focused on the end product, but when we think about the benefits, like how it helps you feel better and think better and engage with the world better. How do you talk to young people about it?
- [36:18]
C
I think it depends who you're talking to. Like, my kids both have ADHD and anxiety, and so they've just learned without me even talking about creativity, just by presenting some options of things to do with their hands, they have learned that they feel better doing that. I mean, a lot of these exercises came out of COVID when my kids were miserable in Zoom School. I literally had to create something for them to do before they got on Zoom School and during zoom School, like doodling to make them feel better. So they have probably they have like a lot of self knowledge about, like, what makes them feel better. But I honestly think just not even talking about creativity because they don't really want to hear it at a certain age. Like, you know, here's what I think about what you should do, but just having it around and making it fun, you know, and giving them different little ways to experiment. Hopefully they'll find their way into it. And then also having some boundaries around device usage.
- [37:13]
A
Yep.
- [37:14]
D
If you are successful in getting them to engage, say like Blythe was with the, with the waffles and watercolors, I do think you can add some language and explaining that. You know, here's what's happening when you do a creative exercise. You know, it's activating your brain's rest mode. You know, you can put it in their terms where it's easy to understand and it kind of gives them the power to understand they can do that for themselves. We sometimes call these open eye meditations because of the benefits. In many ways are aligned with what you would get out of meditation. But it's a little easier than sitting there. You know, maybe for a teen to sit there for 20 minutes just trying to kind of empty their thoughts. It's a little easier to kind of get into a flow state doing something like doodling or it could be anything. It doesn't have to be drawing. But telling them, you know, this is causing your stress hormone to drop. It's making you feel more calm. You know, giving them some of that language when they're actually feeling it or appreciating it does empower them, I think as well.
- [38:10]
B
We'll be right back. But first a word from our sponsors.
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- [39:52]
D
I have one child that used to play on Minecraft, the video game where you build things. And again this was, this was in Covid and he and his friend group got really into it and it's how they, it was like their social meeting was on this platform where they were building these worlds and I actually was all for it because they were, you know, creating something. They were interacting with each other. Obviously I think it would be better if they were in person and not on screens. But you know, at times they can have that on screens too. Or maybe it's through a choice of something that's, you know, a little bit more creative and less destructive. Like you know, Minecraft over Call of Duty or you know, just making, making, helping them make better choices.
- [40:36]
A
Yeah, I want to piggyback on that to get something back to what Blythe said about sort of the sort of do nothing moments and how we're all of us kids and adults are kind of conditioned now to turn to the phones during those, those in between moments and I love the idea of giving them something else to do. I agree with you Mallory. Like my kids have all sorts of cooking, learning how to cook and Minecraft, Minecraft not where they can be in access. I just want to be super clear to strangers and group chats and people who they don't know and haven't approved which we're only now learning about sort of post Covid what kids have been exposed to. But Blythe, can you talk about what drives your. Because you've talked a bunch and I completely agree with you. No phones at the table, moments to have phones away. What was your moment of realization like how did you pair these two parts of kids lives and your own family? And how do you hope this messaging affects other people's families?
- [41:38]
C
Well, I really first noticed their drop in mood during COVID when they were just on Zoom school for so much and then I started to piece it together that like their brains, their specific brains did not mix that well with devices in general and obviously it was going to be a huge part of their world. So what are moments that we could schedule in? You know, whether it was dance party breaks or body breaks or you know, doodling or doing something before that. I also in the process of having two ADHD kids and like learning about sort of their naturally lower levels of dopamine, really started talking to them about, like, what is cheap dopamine? What's a cheap dopamine hit? Like, you know, scrolling through videos where they know they feel worse after that, it doesn't mean they're going to stop doing it. But how can you balance that with, like, more positive dopamine hits? Like a mini creativity break? So I think because my kids have, like, you know, been to therapy, like, they're just. I can talk to them about that. And it's really why we're so passionate about this work is learning about all the benefits and then realizing how few people are actually, like, practicing creativity.
- [42:54]
A
Essentially what it's about is you've educated your kids about how their brains work. You've engaged them in the conversation about thinking about what works for them, how different people's brains work differently, and then how to. Not only how to self reflect, but then how to put into action and recognize the ways that help their brains feel good, productive, creative, engaged, all of those things. And I think each of us can and hopefully do. I mean, if you're listening to this podcast, you probably do have all sorts of conversations with our kids about the science of their bodies and brains. And then also, like, what does it look like to make choices for yourself? Because we're essentially empowering and educating them to ultimately be out in the world making all these choices. And so what we model for them and engage with them about will then hopefully continue. I want to.
- [43:45]
B
Can I jump in before, though, and just make a pitch for when you have a kid? I'm going to use kids in this example who does identify as a creative, but does use technology as part of that creativity. I think there's a lot of learning we have to do. So I have a daughter who's an artist, and she uses her iPad to create art at this point, as often as she uses paper, it's there. She has amazing apps. The tools available on her drawing apps would require, you know, more space than her college dorm room can offer in terms of storing supplies. It's kind of an amazing thing. And I have had to. I agree with everything you guys have said, and I have had to eat my words because I feel like that screen enables her. My son is a dj, and that is a very artistic expression that today, in 2026, absolutely requires technology. It's not so much screen as it is just tech. But it's fascinating for us to sort of see all the data that shows all the benefits of this divide and getting them off of technology. No question. And yet to also have to sort of make good with some of the creative pieces that are landing in the technical space. And to go, huh, okay, what am I going to do with this one? So I just wanted to make that little picture.
- [45:18]
D
I'm all, I'm all for those. And you asked that when you asked that earlier. I mean, I have those same apps on my iPad where I use the pen and I love them. And I think that's more aligned with doodling to me than it is like scrolling on Instagram 100%,
- [45:33]
C
not just consuming.
- [45:35]
D
It's creative.
- [45:35]
B
Correct.
- [45:36]
A
Yeah.
- [45:36]
D
And we've even put some of our exercises on our Instagram, like a suggestion of like doodling on your phone. If you're waiting in line instead of scrolling because you have your phone, you're not going to have, like you said, a bunch of art supplies. I think that is a great way to express creativity.
- [45:51]
B
I would love it to not have a screen like all things being equal, but.
- [45:54]
A
Right.
- [45:55]
B
Go ahead, Blythe.
- [45:56]
D
I also live in this, we live in this world and the technology is there and we have to kind of grow with it and learn to navigate
- [46:04]
C
it and we can't be too rigid. Like, I think it's a yes. And I mean, I think the, the tools available on technology to turbocharge people's creativity, whether it's AI apps or DJing apps, they're amazing. So. And it's very different in your brain to just be consuming these short format videos and scrolling, scrolling, scrolling.
- [46:26]
B
Totally.
- [46:26]
C
Versus what you described is putting out your point of view. It's just using a technological medium and that's fine. I mean, that's great.
- [46:34]
D
It's still allowing you to get into that flow state in both cases.
- [46:37]
B
If, if, and this is what I always say to kids who use these types of, of apps. If you're not being bombarded with notifications in the middle of your creative process, if you're not opening other apps at the same time, I mean, everything you guys have described about what the creative process is, you don't get into flow unless you're focused on the moment, on the thing. You're giving yourself that process. And so that really turns out to be the downside of using the tech.
- [47:09]
D
That's a great, that's a great point.
- [47:10]
A
I want to close because we do work with a lot of parents, obviously, and educators, and I'm wondering what is your advice for those adults who are caring for kids in all different contexts for lowering the barrier to Creativity. We talked about having supplies kind of out and available. We talked about creativity stacking, right. Pairing it with something sort of joyful and pleasurable that they already like to do. But I'm wondering if you have any other recommendations so that we can. I'm like already thinking about all the art supplies that are put away in cabinets, my house that I'm going to pull out, put on the kitchen counter. What else can we do as we close here to encourage people and help listeners think about how to implement that in their own classrooms and homes?
- [47:58]
D
I do have a story. I was a teacher through Parsons School of Design for one class that I was invited to teach. And it was teens that I was teaching and it was super intimidating. I remember the first day of class, I just thought, I don't know how I'm gonna make it through this whole. It was only a week long class. I did not know how I was gonna make it through the second day. I sent them out into the world to walk around and find things that were inspiring to them. I kind of turned it on them and gave them the agency to find something inspiring. So it was within the context of a project. And they came back different people, they were sparked, they were energized because they were able, they had the agency to go find something that was meaningful and inspiring for them. And that in of itself, I felt like drove the rest of the full week. So I think, you know, I'm not a teacher, so I, you know, I don't know if this is wisdom that would help with teachers, but I, I do think with teens and with children, you know, getting them into the space where they are feeling inspired and given the agency to find what is uniquely inspiring to them is a very easy hack to open up so much.
- [49:09]
C
And I have two small examples. Um, my son's always been in public school. Cause I do think it's sometimes harder for public school curriculum to integrate, you know, as much creativity and flexibility and. But his kindergarten teacher just reached out to me and she said she's set up a little doodling station for early finishers where they're not making anything, they're just like doodling. And that's something she's been able to implement even though she has 25 kids in her class. And then in my son's sophomore class, they had to do again, large public school classroom. And his school is focused on truancy, not how to introduce more creativity. But the teacher, you know, as part of a history project, made it multidisciplinary in that they had to come up with songs that reflected this specific sentiment behind this. This time period that they were studying. And that was very low cost, easy thing. A way to introduce other disciplines, other senses into a project that could have been very rote. And he was able to implement it in a class of 25 to 30 kids.
- [50:14]
D
That's amazing.
- [50:15]
B
That's amazing.
- [50:17]
C
Yeah, he's amazing teacher.
- [50:19]
A
Wow. So I hope people feel as inspired as we do. Kara, I am gonna. We're gonna share photos of our work inside Daily Creative just to prove that we finally got over our fear of messing up this beautiful book. Just, I feel so inspired. Not just about getting started, the way you both think about how it's not a big deal, how kids can just have agency and say so and not to be too agenda driven, which I think can be very hard in this day and age, and giving them the ability just to be with themselves and their thoughts and their ideas. So it's a beautiful perspective shift on how it's less about the end product and more about the. About the journey and also opening ourselves up to giving things a shot, even if it's not going to, quote, turn out well. So hopefully our kids get that message as well. And so grateful to have you join us and for the voice of creativity you're putting into the world.
- [51:25]
D
Well, thank you so much for having us.
- [51:27]
C
So much for having us. Just one last thing. Parenting is so inherently creative and just staying nimble and sort of reading the situation, reading what your kid needs. Like, Kara, what you said about if you have a daughter that's already using these incredible, you know, technologies and tools to draw, instead of asking her to doodle, you know, ask her to walk the dog, or as you're walking to school, ask her to notice a specific color, you know, and tap into, like, a different sense, a different experience to complement what she's already doing. You know, instead of having an agenda of, you know, you need to sit down and draw in an analog way.
- [52:04]
B
I mean, I thought you were going to say parenting is so creative because we're making it up every single day. But I really like your take on it a little bit more.
- [52:13]
A
Both.
- [52:15]
C
This was so fun. I could talk to you guys forever.
- [52:18]
A
Thank you both for joining us. Thank you so much for listening. You can email us with questions, feedback or. Or episode requests@podcastawkward.com if you want to
- [52:31]
B
learn more about what we do to make this whole stage of life less awkward for everyone involved. Our parent membership, our school health ed curriculum, our keynote talks and more are
- [52:44]
A
all@lessawkward.com and if you want products that make puberty so much more comfortable, visit myumla.com.
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C
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