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- [00:01]
Brooklyn Rainey
Hey, Mama.
- [00:01]
Commercial Narrator
Thanks for making all my favorite recipes.
- [00:04]
Brooklyn Rainey
Hi, Ma.
- [00:04]
Kara
Thanks for your unfiltered advice.
- [00:07]
Brooklyn Rainey
Hi, Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day. When you ship UPS Air at the UPS Store, your items arrive on time or your money back, guaranteed at no extra cost, exclusively at the UPS store US retail locations. Visit theupsstore.com airshipping for full details. Terms and conditions apply. Send your Mother's Day gifts at the UPS Store and we'll get your gratitude there on time. Working with young people is like half of a high five. Like, up top, and sometimes they high five back, and sometimes they leave you hanging and it's really awkward. You can't force it. You can teach them about the power of mentorship. You can teach them about building their bench. You can talk to them about the qualities and characteristics of trusted adults, but you can only go 50% of the way. And then we encourage and invite them to come the other 50% of the way.
- [01:00]
Vanessa
Kara, we have a special treat here on the podcast. There's not a ton of podcast guests that we've initially met over a martini at a conference in a hotel bar, but Brooklyn Rainey is one such new friend and colleague and guest. And which is not to imply that we're having anything to drink while filming this particular episode, but there is an origin story which will become evident to you all. The evening then proceeded to a series of enormous platters of food in Indianapolis, followed by the biggest ice cream sundae I think I've ever seen in my entire life. So we had a fairly decadent first evening with Brooklyn, and it leads to, I think, some pretty rich, Sorry, excuse the pun, conversation.
- [01:55]
Kara
Yeah. But let's be clear. You're the martini person on this podcast.
- [01:58]
Vanessa
I know Cara. If Cara had a sip of a martini, she'd be on the floor. And Brooklyn I'm not. You had a martini. So maybe it was just me who was drinking.
- [02:05]
Kara
It was Vanessa having martini bonding with Brooklyn and Cara.
- [02:10]
Vanessa
Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Like, we don't only like Brooklyn because we didn't only invite her on the podcast because our friend Phyllis Fagel introduced us and Rosalind Wiseman swooped in and connected us. But because Brooklyn is a research practitioner in a topic that we talk endlessly about but have not. I'm correct, my grammar. We have not dived in. I want to say diven or dive in. We have not dived into the topic with the robustness that we will today. And that topic is trusted adults.
- [02:47]
Kara
Yeah, I mean, it's A catchphrase that we use all the time and that long preceded us and that Brooklyn writes about, talks about, teaches about. Brooklyn. You share your own journey at the beginning of your book, which is called One Trusted Adult. So I'm holding it up for those who are watching us on YouTube. And you talk about sort of how you got to embrace this term, but, you know, this is a phrase that's flung around all the time by all sorts of people. And the question that you ask and answer through your writing, through your work, facilitating workshops with educators and parents and guardians and youth serving professionals around the world, and then you rolled it into a company, right? One Trusted Adult. The question you ask is, what does it mean? And who counts? And then probably the most important is, how do you do it? My husband was recently trained as a mediator and he has brought sort of all this mediation thinking into my mindset. And he, when he opens his laptop, he has a little post it on his laptop that literally says what and how? Because those are the mantras of mediation. And when I read through One Trusted Adult, I was really moved by the fact that this is a what and how book. You explain it all and we're going to get into it.
- [04:30]
Vanessa
So Brooklyn, with that long prologue before you even got to share your voice, welcome to the podcast.
- [04:38]
Brooklyn Rainey
Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. Excited to reunite after those martinis and ice cream sundaes. That was amazing. This is all right. That was amazing.
- [04:48]
Vanessa
Am I right in remembering also that you have a theater background?
- [04:52]
Brooklyn Rainey
I do. Okay. Educational theater, not performance. Using theater as a tool for teaching.
- [04:59]
Vanessa
Yeah. So you will all appreciate that background as well. The podcast will be a fun one because of Brooklyn's training. So let's just like, start baseline, right? What does the research tell us about having even just one trusted adult in a kid's life? What does that mean for their current well being? And what does that mean for their future wellbeing?
- [05:27]
Brooklyn Rainey
I love that you said even just one, because right off the bat, yes, the book is called One Trusted Adult. Yes, the company is called One Trusted Adult because the data shows us that just one, even just one, is our biggest change in reduction of risk. People will say, well, isn't that limiting? It's the minimum. One is the minimum we should be seeking to achieve with every single young person on this planet. It is not the maximum. It should be at least one trusted adult. So when a young person can name at least one, we're seeing that they're less likely to be bullied. Or bully, less likely to participate in risky behaviors, less likely to suffer from mental health issues, less likely to isolate or determine or identify themselves as feeling lonely. And they're less likely to drop out of school. They're more likely to report when they have a worry or concern or they've been made aware of some kind of threat to a community or school community. More likely to experience higher sense of self worth, display greater overall physical and mental wellness, and show greater availability for learning. Basically, we can avoid everything we worry about most for young people, our biggest fears and concerns, and promote the greatest possibilities and all we wish for them by going upstream, taking a step back, and really thinking about the types of relationships we are personally building with them. And also that we are helping manufacture or building environments where they can connect with truly trusted adults in other spaces.
- [07:01]
Kara
And let's get into a little bit of the. Who counts as a trusted adult? And, and maybe, you know, you can give us the long list. And then if you have more than one, how do they form a team? You know, like, let's, let's get into a little bit of the practicalities of it.
- [07:17]
Brooklyn Rainey
Yeah, I think that we unfortunately use the term trusted adult to label coaches, teachers, these. But you can't declare trust. Trust is earned. And only the young person, only the person choosing to trust is the one to dictate and determine or define that that is an adult that I trust. So we adults really have to be better and more careful about not labeling someone as a trusted adult. From a child's perspective, if you trust them as the parent or guardian, you trust the piano teacher, they may be like, you consider them a trusted person, but you're not telling a child that they're a trusted person. The young person gets to determine that. And that's a skill we want young people to build. So when I say one trusted adult, we are looking to build capacity in all adults showing up for young people to express themselves as trustworthy if they truly are. But serious predators and concerning adults have done real harm to that term. And so we've got to be careful how we use it.
- [08:20]
Kara
And there's, there's room in there for guidance. Right. If, if you're the parent and you're trying to identify, I always call it the surrogate to you, but really it's the team of trusted adults. Right. When you have young kids, even when you have older kids, but especially when you have young kids, it's fair game to say, as you begin to identify adults that you can trust who become your trusted adults, Here are some examples of those people. Right. Because kids need a little bit of teaching around this, or does it come inherently?
- [08:52]
Brooklyn Rainey
I definitely need some teaching and I. I hope we get into the qualities and characteristics of the types of people that we are looking for. We always talk to kids and talk to parents about talking to their kids about building your bench. And this is a metaphor we use again and again because primarily, like 100%, I say over and over and over to anyone. I'm working with educators, youth serving professionals, parents, guardians. Parents and guardians at home. Adults are the number one caregivers and educators of their children. And I do believe in schools and other places, we've forgotten that sometimes in some places our work as adults outside of the home, if I'm the coach, if I'm the teacher, if I am a mentor, if I'm a neighbor, an aunt, uncle, a grandparent, my work is to support that parenting, not to supplant it. So we're not looking to replace. We're really looking to support. We also know the village metaphor still holds. Right? We need the village. The village is. Feels fractured right now. It feels like trust is crumbling. We don't. We are less likely to know our neighbors or interact with our communities. There's a decline in all community structures, so we're losing that. But it's still just as important. Parents cannot do it alone. There's too much to do. And it would be wild to think that my son would only come to me always. I don't have skills in music or in cooking and his passions. He's going to have other mentors and other adults. So it definitely is a skill I have to help him build. He's 20 now, so we're there, we built it. But in parenting him, thinking about how I curate that skill in him and accept as the parent and guardian that I will not be everything my son needs at every turn.
- [10:30]
Vanessa
So, Brooklyn, let's play the other side of that, which is, you know, our audience is filled with parents and guardians who are really struggling to connect with their kids right now. Right. That maybe they had a really close relationship with their kids. And then the adolescent years hit and as is common and, you know, very typical things became more tumultuous, more contentious. Battles over independence, stuff around, you know, school performance or the way they dress like, right. There's a million ways in which there, there can be ruptures in relationships between parents and guardians and kids this age. And sometimes it's almost like we need a stand in or someone who can more Easily talk to our kids. So I just, for people listening, yes, over the long term, God willing, we are our kids number one. But it's not always like day to day to day gonna feel like that or seem like that. And I just want people to take the pressure off that. Like, yes, it's. We're playing a long game here and that is the goal. But there are times when we realize our kids are really listening to and frankly opening up to and trusting people who are not us. You make a really important distinction about who those non parent trusted adults can be and also what they can't be. Like what the limits to, to their capacity are, either because they're not a, you know, a legal guardian or because they have many, many other responsibilities to many other kids or many other roles in their life. Can you talk about like the limitations to Cara's point, sort of setting up some of the, the parameters around this? Yeah.
- [12:22]
Brooklyn Rainey
So what came through in our research and I honestly, a lot of it surprised me. I was a parent, I'm an educator. I heard the term, as Kara mentioned, just like floated around constantly. Trusted adult. Trusted adult. We think we know what it means. We use it constantly. But when I sat in that auditorium one day, I talk about in the book and hearing prevention program after prevention program after prevention program because our administrators forgot we needed to check all these boxes. And so it was like bullying prevention, substance abuse prevention, everything, all in one really heavy month of community meetings. And they kept saying, turn to a trusted adult. Go find a trusted adult. And I think just hearing the repetition of it over and over and over, it's like, well, do they know what that means? Do we know what that means? Do these students look to us as those trusted adults? Do we show up each day ready to teach theater or history or chemistry, thinking, I'm going to trusted adult today? Like what, how do we describe it and what you're saying? The limitations of it? Because we were fed in, in our trainings. Like, I never got a college course on how to build authentic, productive, sustainable relationships with other people's children that promote academic growth and positive youth development without compromising my wellness or draining my wallet. Not a course.
- [13:38]
Kara
That would be an excellent course.
- [13:40]
Vanessa
Right.
- [13:40]
Brooklyn Rainey
This is what I'm trying to solve for.
- [13:41]
Vanessa
We'd come up with a catchier title. But yes, I think the course description would be right on.
- [13:47]
Brooklyn Rainey
Yeah, it's like three martinis long.
- [13:48]
Kara
Yeah. And an ice cream sundae. Yes, go.
- [13:51]
Brooklyn Rainey
And an ice cream sundae. But if I didn't get that training and Then all I'm fed is love them like your own. They only learn from those they love. Our school is like a family and you're just fed these fallback catchphrases. It can confuse what my role is here, what my expertise is, what am I actually trained to do, how much should I care about another person's child? Right. What are the limits emotionally? So I dug in. From that moment, it felt like it just became my life's work to figure out the formula and help people do this well, so that we are protecting the rights of parents and guardians and supporting them in their parenting and guardian and protecting ourselves, protecting our own wellness, protecting our careers. And so what came through in the focus groups with students, with parents and with educators was that the trusted adults that all three parties can agree on that they are accessible, boundaried and caring. You say the ABCs. Accessible does not mean 247 access. It means signaling approachability. And to your point, about connecting with adolescents specifically, I was just, I had gone up to Canada to record my audiobook with this great producer. And it so fun because we're chatting between each chapter. And the first time, when I recorded the first edition, his child was five, headed into kindergarten now, sixth, seventh grade, like right in the thick of it. And he's like, I'm hearing this book in a whole new way because of new context. And he said to me, I think a lot of parents, guardians and adults sort of say like, they don't want to hang out with me, they don't want to connect with me. It's hard. I don't know what to talk about. He's like, but I just recently, like, you know, my son comes home and he immediately goes to the video games or goes to like, he comes home from school and he doesn't want to connect and maybe he needs a little bit of time. But there has not been one time where I said to my son, you and me ping pong in the basement, let's go. Where he did not throw off his headphones, jump up and, you know, race me down to the basement. So from an accessibility standpoint, we can blame the children, but I think the children are still seeking connection. I believe it's a human need to feel a sense of belonging and to feel supported by those around us and to play. So I think there I would have put it back on the adults, like, what are you doing? To signal and to put out bids for connection.
- [16:16]
Kara
We'll be right back, but first a word from our sponsors.
- [16:20]
Commercial Narrator
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- [16:57]
Vanessa
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- [17:30]
Kara
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- [17:59]
Vanessa
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- [19:02]
Kara
I'm going to butcher this story, so I'm going to ask you to tell it because I won't get it exactly right. But you tell a story early in the book about being there for one of your students and setting up an appointment and she flakes, she does not show up and you're annoyed. And you know, as one does, you go to Dairy Queen after she stands you up. Because that's what I would do too.
- [19:25]
Brooklyn Rainey
More ice cream coming up on this podcast. This is so awkward.
- [19:28]
Kara
Right? Do you want to pick up the story from where I'm leaving it off. Cuz you're going to tell it better than I am. And I think you know where I'm going in terms of how to set a boundary and be that person for a kid.
- [19:38]
Brooklyn Rainey
Yeah, you're spot on. So it was someone I was, had been set up to mentor outside of school, so there wasn't really a formal capacity. One of my former students connected me with her because she had dropped out of school and wanted to pursue her GED and thought I was someone that could help. And because I've stepped out of the classroom at this point and I'm doing this research and writing and alone a lot in this, I hear that young woman needs my help. Like, let me put on my superhero cape and I'm going to show you all my highlighters and pens and notebooks and all the tools I have for helping you achieve this goal. I was so excited and two, like emotionally attached to the outcome, to the idea, to the mentoring set up to meet at the local library. 5 minutes goes by, she doesn't show. 10 minutes goes by, a text message, call, nothing. 15 minutes, 20. Finally I've accepted I've been ghosted. So as you called me out here, yes, I drove to Dairy Queen to feed my feelings, my disappointment, and who hands me my Butterfinger blizzard. Like this hand comes out the window and does the blizzard check? If you're watching this right now, you're seeing me do the blizzard check, you know? You know, and I look up and she looks at me and she says, oh my gosh, Mrs. Rainey, I, I'm, I'm so sorry. I know I was supposed to meet you, but then I had the shift and, and then I, I, my phone like, was glitching and I couldn't, you know, like every excuse. And I felt that she, she was truly apologetic. She felt badly. She got caught in a pickle. She didn't call me immediately, even though I had, you know, gotten a Dog walker rearranged my meetings. Like, I made an effort and I made space for this person. So there was. I was upset. But as soon as she started apologizing, I wanted to say, oh my gosh, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. I wanted to crawl through my own window, through the drive through window, hug her and appease her of all guilt and suffering. Even though I know from our research and your podcast and other places, I hear all of this. She needs to grow resilience. She needs to build resilience. And if I forgive her of all wrongdoing at every turn, then she doesn't grow that muscle and she learns that she can do exactly what she did to me again and again and again and nothing will change. And I truly had to think about, okay, you can still be accessible while maintaining a boundary and a limit. What are you teaching her here in your. In your interaction. And I had to stop myself and say, I appreciate your apology. I'm glad you recognize that. I did create time. I got a dog walker. I moved to meetings to meet with you. It's unfortunate and it's a real bummer for me that you didn't show up. I still want to work with you. I will set another meeting with you and another time with you. But I really expect that you confirm with me that you'll be there. And if you can, if something comes up, because life happens, that you let me know. And she said, okay, Mrs. Rainey, right? Instead of, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay.
- [22:33]
Kara
Don't feel pain.
- [22:34]
Brooklyn Rainey
Don't feel pain and suffering. My job as. As an adult in a young person's life, a mentor, a coach, a parent, isn't to relieve all suffering. Most of parenting and guiding young people is like watching the awkward, the pain sitting beside it, not wanting to look, but having to look. That's growth. The only way we have growth is through friction. And I had to let her feel that.
- [22:53]
Vanessa
So I wanna build on that for a second. Cause you mentioned it earlier and it was a really eye opening part of your writing for me, which is thinking about how our expertise informs the role we play as a trusted adult. And you talk about being really clear with young people for whom you maybe are or you know, are seeking to be a trusted adult in defining your role and how your expertise defines that. And it's really funny because I was. Cara and I are often called upon to play some version of a trusted adult for other kids in other kids lives. But because they're young people we meet or friends of our own children, or
- [23:39]
Brooklyn Rainey
do you do that? Is there a hotline? I've got a few that you can.
- [23:42]
Kara
One agenda. Trusted. I got.
- [23:46]
Vanessa
I gotta come up about the correct number of digits, but yes, hopefully you've got trusted a. So, you know, as often happens these days with young people, you're on FaceTime, or you're, you know, maybe they're standing in your kitchen. And the particular story I'm thinking of, I was like, went into my daughter's room, and she was FaceTiming with a friend, and she said, hey, mom, so and so would like your advice about a situation.
- [24:14]
Kara
100%. Yep.
- [24:15]
Vanessa
Right. So cars. Car has had this over and over and over again. And, you know, in that moment, you're so honored that your kid is including you. You're so honored that your kid's friend has chosen you to your point, Brooklyn, as someone to be trusted. And as someone.
- [24:35]
Kara
Let's put aside that you just walked into the room randomly and they didn't come find you to get your advice. Like, this is what it's always like. I happen to walk in, and now I'm the most important person in the room. Okay, yes, let's.
- [24:47]
Vanessa
So. And it was a question about this person's romantic relationship. And I was really torn about how to. And it wasn't a sexual question. It was really about, you know, an interpersonal relationship and navigating stuff. And I said to this kid, thank you for coming to me. Like, I feel. I really appreciate that you trust me. It's not my job to get in the middle of your relationship. This is your relationship. I'm not your peer. What I can do is offer you some questions that I like to think about in my own relationships, about how they're serving me and how they make me feel. But I'm not gonna, like, give you advice. And I really don't wanna know the ins and outs of your personal relationship. That's private to you. But I can offer you some guiding questions that I might use. It was an example of when we feel tempted to overstep because we feel so happy that someone values our, you know, in our case, Car and my expertise, that they trust us, that our kid, you know, all of those wonderful things. And it was really sweet. I said, here are three things I like to think about in my friendships and my relationships with people. And he was like, wow, thank you so much. That's so helpful.
- [26:12]
Brooklyn Rainey
Where did you learn that skill? Where did that come from? Where have you seen that?
- [26:16]
Kara
She read one trusted adult.
- [26:19]
Brooklyn Rainey
No, that was not. That was not.
- [26:20]
Vanessa
In fairness. In fairness, it was before I read the book. But if I had read the book, I would have come up with an even. An even better approach.
- [26:27]
Brooklyn Rainey
No, it sounds like you nailed it.
- [26:29]
Vanessa
Well, I mean, I think it comes. It comes from, like, doing this work for many, many years and Cara and I being in constant conversation about this balancing act. But I bring that story up, not to pat myself on the back. I bring it up because it's so easy. Like, this was my expertise, right? My expertise is like supporting young people, supporting the adults who care for them. My expertise is like, talking about tricky topics in ways that are appropriate and boundaried. And also my expertise is about being a parent to a kid whose relationship I both want to respect and respond to when they are asking for help. Right. So those were, like, all the things in my mind. But it gets at Brooklyn. Your point about, like, what do we have expertise in? How do we maintain parameters and boundaries? And how do we not let our sort of, like, thrill of being invited in cause us to overstep with those boundaries? So. And because you've done this a million times.
- [27:36]
Kara
Yeah, I'm chiming in that. Brooklyn, I am nowhere near as evolved as Vanessa. I would have been like, oh, tell me everything about the relationship. Like, I grabbed my popcorn and then. So now you.
- [27:52]
Brooklyn Rainey
Most people would do that, and then they'd say, let me tell you about a relationship I had when I was married. And then tell their own story, which is human habit. It's. It's. I want to connect. Oh, my gosh, someone sees me and the value I add here. Yes, here. I'm going to give it all to you right now.
- [28:08]
Kara
Amazing. I'm here all day.
- [28:11]
Brooklyn Rainey
Yes. That's it. That's it. You're hitting on something that's so natural and normal. And I love that all that was going through your head. This is someone else's child. This is a FaceTime. We're at a distance. I can't read body language or how this person is receiving me. I know they're not going to get all of my nuance. It's not my place to judge or qualify the relationship. But here's three things I can say or I can. Questions. Even better. Brilliant. I have a poster, a free downloadable poster that, honestly, I just had in my own space forever to remind myself and then realized, oh, other people need this reminder too, which simply says, like, what is a trusted adult at school? Or replace trusted adult with teacher Advisor, coach, and I might mess this up, but it says, while I am not a mental health professional, I am an advocate for your needs. While I am not your parent or guardian, I am a promoter of your potential. So I always had it for myself as a reminder and then realized, oh, I can actually post this in the space so students see it too. So they actually right away have a signal and understanding. I don't want to be your fake therapist. And I, Brooklyn Rainey, have made many mistakes. And just like Cara mentioned, like, oh, let me. I will learn everything about cutting. I will learn everything about eating disorders, and I will be your coach and guide through this thing that I know nothing about. I'm just a healer and a saver and a rescuer. And call me anytime, like, I am still in recovery from savior syndrome and getting really clear on the boundaries and limits of my role in everybody's life. Adult, colleagues, friends, spouse, my own child. Like, where do I best serve and where do I not? And how do I get comfortable sitting back and again, watching some struggle and allowing that friction to happen where they need it to grow?
- [30:00]
Vanessa
I mean, I think, Cara, we should include that as a link in our curriculum and our professional development. Because one of the things we put at the beginning of some of the trickier lessons that are taught in our health and sex ed curriculum is about when a kid comes to you, educator, teacher, guidance counselor, administrator, administrator, provider, et cetera, coach, mentor, with a disclosure or with, you know, expressing a need. And that's not your training. Right. That's not your expertise. How do you do exactly that, Brooklyn? How do you communicate to them? Hey, this. I'm not trained to provide this information, but I am trained to help you get to the right person who can. I'm on your side. Yes, let's like, well, let's do it together without overstepping or providing expertise in which, you know, they're not trained.
- [30:55]
Kara
And honestly, we gotta put parents right on that list because so often when we are sitting in that role of advocate, supporter, keeping my kids safe and healthy, if you're really going to keep your kid safe and healthy and you know nothing, it doesn't help them to make up that which you do not know.
- [31:17]
Vanessa
Right.
- [31:18]
Kara
So I think even though we are separating and we're kind of splitting hairs on this one topic, it feels like that advice applies to everyone.
- [31:28]
Brooklyn Rainey
Absolutely. And there's two. Two things I'd add to the idea of disclosures or young people sharing with anyone, specifically educators. Although it depends state to state on mandated reporting laws but my state is if you suspect neglect or abuse and you are over 18, you are legally obligated to report that.
- [31:49]
Vanessa
So any adult is a mandated reporter.
- [31:52]
Brooklyn Rainey
In New Hampshire, it lists a lot of positions that are specifically mandated reporters and then basically has a blanket statement of and everybody else.
- [32:00]
Vanessa
Huh.
- [32:01]
Kara
Wow.
- [32:02]
Brooklyn Rainey
So in schools and youth serving spaces, I am a huge, huge proponent of actually sharing our mandated reporting responsibilities with young people, specifically adolescents. Too many times I heard students in our focus groups, in our interviews say, I would never tell an adult anything because the last time I told an adult, they had to report it. And social services showed up at my house. And it wasn't that they actually reported it. It was that the student felt like they didn't know. Like they didn't have the rules of the game before we started playing. Right. So lots of adults say, you can tell me anything. You can be vulnerable. This is a safe space. Oh, but by the way, if you say X, Y, or Z, I have to report it. That feels unfair. When young people are really building this understanding of fairness and justice and communication and clarity and boundaries, they want to know the rules of the game up front. And so I highly encourage schools to do it school wide. I love school leaders to stand at school community meeting and say, educators and all adults in this building are mandated reporters. Here's what this means. Just so you're always aware, we're here to hear your concerns and worries. And if what you need is beyond the scope of our ability to help, we are going to hand it off to professionals who know how to take it from there. We're not going anywhere after that. We'll support you. We'll continue support through it. So explain upfront. I always equate that to, like, if I invited you over to play a game of basketball, but I didn't tell you what team you were on. I didn't tell you which hoop you're shooting on. I didn't tell you where the boundaries are. And I'm like, I win. That's a terrible feeling. Like, I want to play, I want to engage you, but I don't understand the rules of the relationship. So that's a first. The second in the book, you'll get to know me. And I'm like, acronym framework. Like, I've got to compartmentalize and put every and make it sticky. So I remember. But one of them is levers, and it's specifically for disclosure. We want to listen, we want to empathize. We want to validate. Right, simple listen, empathize. That sounds really hard. Validate your right to feel any way you feel about this situation. No matter what a young person says, we do lev after that. If there's a disclosure that is beyond our scope or it does hit the qualification of a mandated report, we explain to the young person. So the E is explain what that means, we report it and then support Ask the people you've reported to or your staff leaders at school, what is my role now? This young person shared this with me and what role do I play going forward? I don't want to disappear, but I cannot act as the therapist or the social worker in this situation. So there are tools in the book. Because when you become a trusted adult, when a young person determines that you are trusted, there is likely to be disclosures of some kind.
- [34:39]
Kara
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Vanessa
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Brooklyn Rainey
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Kara
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Brooklyn Rainey
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- [36:40]
Vanessa
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- [36:41]
Brooklyn Rainey
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- [36:50]
Kara
I think it's really important here to press, pause and acknowledge for adults who are sitting in the role of trusted adult, which most of us are, for someone somewhere, that there's this balance that we all strive for, which is we do want them to like us, to feel connected to us in that way. And we can see when you've been the trusted adult to a kid who has something going on that is reportable, that is beyond the scope of not just what you're able to help and handle, but is worrying with a capital W, that it is their natural instinct, by and large, to write a story around why that thing is happening to them that begins to make sense of it all. And if we were not to take our job as mandatory reporters and follow through on it, there is a whole world in which kids and the adults who surround them can rationalize away why a series of things is happening and those series of things do not get addressed again in the name of safety and healthfulness. And so to keep kids safe and healthy, this is why this structure has evolved. It's not like it evolved from out of nowhere. It evolved because as humans, we are amazing storytellers. And there are plenty of times, I can think of plenty of times in my life when a kid has come to me, not, not at the mandatory reporting level, but just short of it, and has said to me, you know, this thing happened, and it's fine because of this and this and this. And as I listen to their story, it's a great story. And then when I pull my lens back, I go, oh, wait, this is where I embody my Vanessa. Oh, wait, right. And that is. That is our job, right? Not to indulge the story that they've come up with, to work through the situation they find themselves in, but rather to help sort of narrate a broader story, I would say. Does that make sense?
- [39:10]
Brooklyn Rainey
Yes, it does. And I. I think fresh eyes on a situation like, that's what a trusted adult can do. They're definitely looking to you for your first reaction. I can recall one story with a student where, you know, she kept bringing me something sort of bigger and bigger and bigger. And through that, I realized she was seeking connection with me. And I actually was feeding because I was going in there with the popcorn and really getting in and pretending to be a therapist when I wasn't. I was a theater teacher. I was inviting the, like, bigger story. And what I realized looking back on that, and the story ends well, I got great help from a mentor to help reset the boundary. Everything that needed to be reported was reported. But her habit was to continue coming to me and keep dumping because her whole life she had been trained that the only way to get an adult's attention was through crisis. And all I did was reaffirm that belief. And so, through the help of a mentor and a great school counselor, they all honored and said, like, you really love to spend time with Mrs. Rainey, and that's wonderful. What Mrs. Rainey's not is a therapist or your friend or your parent, but what Mrs. Rainey is, is someone who can be focused on your goals and your future. So if you want to talk about where you want to go after high school, any clubs, you want to start your classes for next year, Mrs. Rainey is your person.
- [40:33]
Kara
That's right.
- [40:33]
Brooklyn Rainey
And I needed help. That's why one isn't enough. One trusted themes a bench. These other colleagues of mine brilliantly helped me reset those boundaries. This young woman even put a poster on my door that said, Mrs. Rainey's place of possibility. Totally mocked me every time, like, Mrs. Moraney's place of possibility. And like, haha, totally joked and made it cheesy. And I was like, whatever, it's working. And she would tap it on her way in to remind her that she's a trusted adult in my life and these are the areas in which she has expertise to help me and support me. But if what I need is something else today, I should be going and seeking that somewhere else. And I think young people need that direction up front. And then we. Because her habit was still to come in and dump. So then my job as a responsible, mature, grown person is to say, ah, ah, ah. Like, is this something you need to share today and we're gonna go get other help? And she's like, no, I'm actually already talking to my therapist about that. I don't need to share that with you today. So, Brooklyn, let's.
- [41:31]
Vanessa
I want to unpack another kind of concept that you bring up or tension that you bring up, which is the distinction between trust and love. And I feel like it ties to this example because as people who work with kids and young people, not just our own children, but other people's children, we love these kids, right? We, yeah, want the best for them. We believe in them, we want to see them thrive. And yet trust and love, as you talk about, are not the same thing. And Our role and should kids choose it, is for us to build trust with other kids. I mean, first and foremost with the children who live in our own homes, which is. Sounds simple, but it's not always so simple. And then with the kids we work with, can you, can you unpack that distinction and why it's important to understand the difference there?
- [42:24]
Brooklyn Rainey
Yeah, I mean, it's impossible to be a researcher of care, trust, boundaries, relationships without the word love coming up, without favorite teacher coming up. Like, we have a lot of easy, quick fallback phrases we go to when describing the good. And it's lovely and wonderful. And I don't want anyone to think I am a hater of love or favorite. But what we found right away, one, even the term family, our school is like a family. I was sitting down with a young person who said, I know you don't know my family, but I don't want school to be like my family. School is my escape from family. And his definition or conception of what a family is was the opposite of what he was. He was experiencing kind, caring people at school who he could trust, and that was not what he was experiencing in his family. That one data point, that one interview for me, totally shifted my thinking. Why am I using a metaphor for this? Like, we can say kind, caring, empathetic, name your characteristic of a community without relying on a metaphor to describe it. And so I've really shifted away from that language. The other was that we found through one of the studies, the phrase they, they only learn from those they love. We found more resonance with they learn best from those they trust and trust felt like there's safety and security in trust. There's still deep knowing, there's still deep connection. But we can also talk about boundaries really clearly in those connections. And so it's not that they don't learn from those they love or that there's not anything that's true about that statement. We just found much clearer and easier to help describe specifically to developing brains about trust than it was to describe love. Trust is achievable, right?
- [44:11]
Vanessa
We all have those people in our lives who we didn't love and didn't love us, but had a huge impact on our development. Or maybe our kids are lucky enough to have those folks who they're like, yeah, I mean, I learned so much from them. Did I love them or did I love sitting in their class or being on their team? Not really. But, like, they played a really important part in my life.
- [44:35]
Brooklyn Rainey
Right? And love and trust, like, think, like, I loved the Teacher. I can't believe I'm going to say this right now, but I love the high school teacher and coach who took me to a tattoo parlor and paid for me to get my tongue pierced. Is this getting public? I loved that one.
- [44:50]
Kara
There's our social media clip.
- [44:54]
Brooklyn Rainey
I loved that person. I did not trust that person.
- [44:58]
Kara
Right.
- [44:59]
Brooklyn Rainey
Like there's lots of adults in my past, I can say I loved them. I loved that lifeguard at the local pool because they let us do xyz, but that they were not really trustworthy. And my parents definitely were concerned. Like, love and trust are very different. And I'm not against the feeling, the sense of love in schools. And I recognize, like we can love our students, but I don't believe that that's what we are seeking to achieve. I believe that we are seeking to earn the trust of young people by truly acting.
- [45:27]
Kara
I mean, it is called one trusted adult and not one loved adult.
- [45:32]
Brooklyn Rainey
One loved adult would be. I don't know if that would.
- [45:34]
Kara
Right. I mean that word is very singular. The concept of trust. And it is, it is losable. You can lose trust. And do you want to talk a little bit about that and when a trusted adult loses footing with a kid and how to regain it or what does that look and feel like?
- [45:55]
Brooklyn Rainey
Yeah, lots of our training is about repair and reset. So with boundaries. And we, we sort of got there, but we really so far only talked about legal boundaries, mandated reports. That's where I think most trainings for educators and youth serving professionals stop. And much of it is clicked through modules. It's all, it's important. But we also know there's professional boundaries, emotional boundaries and social boundaries that we need to talk about. I talk about them like brick walls, chain link fences, baby gates and invisible fences. Like there's, there's distance between us and another person's child. And that distance is important to maintain the safety and clarity and understanding of the relationship with professional boundaries. I think a lot about strategies like one on one time. I think one on one time is important. My son wouldn't have learned to play the drums. Got math tutoring. Like if one on one, if we lose the ability to have one on one time. But the strategy there, professional boundary is observable and interruptible. I don't want a child to feel like I'm trying to meet with them in secrecy.
- [46:57]
Vanessa
Right.
- [46:57]
Brooklyn Rainey
Meet in a place or it's. It's known like it's observable and it's interruptible. Cell phone numbers. I see educators, adults who've signed a contract to be in the life of a young person giving their personal cell phone number, causing a really casual relationship that it really is detrimental again to the safety and structure. So we stand outside that chain link fence. There's a gate in that fence. Mom, dads, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends. If we've signed a contract, we stand on the outside of that. If we make a mistake and walk through, we friend them on social media or we whatever the blur is or we say we overshare. Top two boundary blurs that high school students stated were outward sharing and over sharing. So when high school, when teenagers felt that their teachers were talking about them outside of the classroom, outward sharing or posting videos or pictures of them online on their own personal teacher TikTok or whatever. So as outward sharing was a fracture of trust and oversharing, when adults were not practicing discretionary vulnerability. But we're just creating these safe spaces and vulnerable and over sharing about their fertility issues, their divorce, their own children. Like the things I heard from students about what adults were sharing. And those students saying, don't they have friends? Don't they have a therapist? I think she needs a therapist. Those are the things. But those can be reset. We can't roll it back. We can repair and we can reset and create new norms and parameters of our relationship that are clear for students. And I guarantee trust increases when boundaries are clearer and stronger. And that's something I think people lose is they think I have to blur boundaries and overshare to connect. And it's actually the complete opposite. It's say what you're going to be and do in their life and then do it. Keep a promise.
- [48:50]
Kara
So to that end, how do we magnetize ourselves? How do we make ourselves magnets for kids and invite their trust without oversharing, without making that very awkward, like attempt to ingratiate ourselves.
- [49:08]
Brooklyn Rainey
I categorize, I say presence, play and possibility. More of my acronyms and alliteration and you name it, but these are the ways again, I remember it. Presence, full attention. We heard from young people, number one, adults they were interested in connecting with put down their computer, put down their phone, sat next to them, looked them in the eye, remembered their name, greeted them. Really simple human norms that I think have been lost or we aren't, as you know, particular about pursuing. So presence is really just being there, being physically present, allowing space for things to happen and conversations to come up. Play. Like I said, ping pong uno. Like I couldn't believe that they spike ball like the things they name the doing just like not making everything about talking and sitting across from each other. And I've heard other people say this on your podcast, it's just the engaging, the playing, but it's just doing something, doing anything. And then possibility is really keeping it future focused. I, as an adult in your life, care about the you now. But my big job is to make sure that future you is okay. And so where do you want to go? What do you want to do? How can I help? Not overdoing the coaching, but really thinking forward and not going backwards. And that's a big mistake I made as an educator was like, tell me the hardest thing that you've ever overcome as an icebreaker in a ninth grade. Why? Why? But that's what the tools I was given. So our tools that we're developing are all future forward focus, which really helps protect the educator or the trusted adulter. Mentor and do right by kids.
- [50:42]
Vanessa
So Brooklyn, for people listening who are thinking about a kid in their life, a group of kids in their life, maybe in their own family, maybe in their classroom, if you could leave them with one piece of advice to kind of walk away with, what would you say to them? Knowing that people have the best of intentions in their own professionalism and for the lives of these kids, but sometimes we get stuck and make mistakes, what would you, what would your guidance be?
- [51:09]
Brooklyn Rainey
What I hear people most resonate with because they, I would say the majority of people I'm speaking to are well intentioned adults who want to do their very best and do right by young people and are asking the same question. Kara, you're asking like, how do we connect? How do we do it? And I always say, if you say I'm going to build a relationship with that kid, they will smell you coming and they're going to run in the other direction. Our work is to be present, to be playful, to talk about the possible. And really what I'll say again and again is we can only go 50% of the way. Working with young people is like half of a high five, like up top and sometimes they high five back and sometimes they leave you hanging and it's really awkward. Your favorite word, you know, you're like, you can't force it. You can teach them about the power of mentorship, you can teach them about building their bench, you can talk to them about the qualities and characteristics of trusted adults, on and on and on, but you can only go 50% of the way. And then we encourage and invite them to come. The other 50% of the way. So take a breath. Think about how you make yourself accessible, what boundaries you adhere to and uphold, and how you express your care and keep doing the good work. We always say, be who you needed and really think through and empathize with. What was it you needed when you were 9, 12, 19? Name the age and how can you show up in that way?
- [52:31]
Kara
I mean, I'm just. I feel like a sponge. And I could just sit here. I feel like the most absorbent sponge ever because I could just sit here and take more and more and more of your wisdom and guidance. It is an incredible thing to be in conversation with you. Vanessa and I have been in this world for a very long time. And to say I learned a tremendous amount from listening to you, from reading your words, from watching your work, is the understatement of the century. Brooklyn, you are remarkable. Will you be my trusted adult? I will.
- [53:17]
Brooklyn Rainey
Kara. I'm here for you. 1, 800. What did we say?
- [53:21]
Kara
Trusted A. That was Vanessa's. It was pretty impressive.
- [53:24]
Vanessa
Yeah, that may be one letter. No, I think that's actually the right number digits.
- [53:30]
Brooklyn Rainey
Can I add one more thing? I know you all are wrapping it up, but you said, sponge. I'm a fire hose. I can't turn it off. This just happened. And you saying, can you be my trusted adult? And how we show up for each other. I also think we have to model the reaching out to other adults. Quick story. I found myself, I wanted to make shortbread cookies. My grandma used to make the best. She still makes the best shortbread cookies. Instead of calling my grandmother to get the recipe, I went to Chatgpt and I got a shortbread recipe. And after I made those cookies and they did not taste as good as my grandma's, I sat there and said, what have I done? I just reached to a device instead of a human. One, I didn't get a great recipe. And two, I missed a bid for connection with my grandma, who is and always has been a trusted adult in my life. I'm 40 years old now. I still need her. But I went to a device instead of the adult. And I think one thing that we absolutely need to model for young people. Yes, that thing is efficient. Yes, that thing can give you a lot of information. But there's a lot missed when we go to the device and not to the humans who are on our bench.
- [54:37]
Vanessa
And that we need trusted adults. I mean, Cara and I talk all the time about as adults, we can't do it alone. That the people were, you know, co parenting with or co teaching with. Maybe they're great, maybe we love them, maybe we can depend on them for some stuff. But, like, we need our own bench.
- [54:57]
Brooklyn Rainey
Yes.
- [54:57]
Vanessa
And seeking that out, asking for help is a really vulnerable thing to do. It takes more time. It takes more watering and feeding. And yet I think for me personally, when I do it, when I take the time, when I make the space for it, I'm so glad that I did it. And so for those people listening, like, we're so focused on our kids, we're so focused on our students, we cannot forget about our own needs and the work it takes to get those needs filled as well.
- [55:33]
Kara
And. And I'll just land on. Vanessa and I have spent a long time building content channels, and one of them was an AI tool, and we really cared about that. This AI tool was deeply gated so that all the information was correct and right. And our partners sat with us in early days and said, do you think you can compete with what people are willing to accept? And I said, what do you mean by that? And they're like, most people are willing to take, I don't know, 85, 90%. Right. That's good enough. And that you have to be willing to push and need people to want better than that. And your shortbread story about your grandmother is exactly that. And Vanessa's conversation about seeking a trusted adult in adults, seeking trust adults is exactly that. When it comes to this kind of stuff, 85 or 90% is not good enough. Going to ChatGPT to be the surrogate for the community and the connection that we need is not good enough. And I believe in humanity, I believe, Brooklyn, that just like you finally picked up the phone to call your grandmother, that that is where we are going to collectively land. There are a lot of things that we can outsource, but when it comes to human connection, 100%, that's what we're going for.
- [57:09]
Brooklyn Rainey
That's it. That's it.
- [57:11]
Vanessa
Brooklyn, it was so great to have you here. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for the work you do, which I think is really, really unique and really important. And I hope that the folks listening not only learn something new, but if they're feeling like their community needs what you do, that they reach out and find you. We'll put a link in the show notes to your company and to your book, because this is what it all comes down to, ultimately. So thank you for being with us.
- [57:41]
Brooklyn Rainey
Thank you both so much. This was not as awkward as I thought. It was wonderful. Really, really outstanding podcast. Love your book and appreciate so much you having me on to talk about what I'm most passionate about.
- [57:53]
Vanessa
Thank you so much for listening. You can email us with questions, feedback or Episode requests@podcast.com if you want to
- [58:03]
Kara
learn more about what we do to make this whole stage of life less awkward for everyone involved. Our parent membership, our school health ed curriculum, our keynote talks, and more are
- [58:16]
Vanessa
all@lessawkward.com and if you want products that make puberty so much more comfortable, visit myumla.com.