← Thriving Kids
Loading summary
Transcript1 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hello and welcome to the questions and answers edition of Thriving Kids, a podcast from the Child Mind Institute, a nonprofit dedicated to transforming the lives of children with mental health and learning disorders. I'm Dr. Dave Anderson, clinical psychologist and your host. Last week we had a very special conversation with Dr. Candace Odgers about kids phones, social media, and what the research really says about Youth Mental Health. Dr. Odgers helped us look past the headlines and look more carefully at the difference between correlation and causation, the limits of the current research, and why phones and social media are only one part of a much bigger picture. We've gotten a lot of questions since that episode around Healthy Tech limits, reacting without fear, how to open up communication with teens, as well as focusing on the bigger drivers of kids well being, including family stress, school pressure, peer relationships, sleep and caregiver mental health. So let's get into it. All right folks, here we are back in the throttle. Thriving Kids podcast Q and A episode again with eight questions submitted by our listeners. I like it because honestly, for those of you who may have heard me self disclose a little bit in previous episodes as a kid I had obsessive compulsive disorder, ocd, and I really favored even numbers, multiples of four, and specifically the number eight. So it actually gives me a lot of comfort that our producer Chad often gives me eight questions for the podcast episode because that makes me real. Like, it makes me feel like I'm really in the flow and, and like I've got this, like the right number. Okay, so here we go. First question for the podcast episode this week. As a parent, how do I know when I'm setting healthy limits around my child's phone versus reacting out of fear? And this is terrific question because what it allows us an opportunity to do, and this relates to what Dr. Rogers was speaking about on last week's podcast episode, is whenever a parent comes to me with kind of a fear based approach to tech, I will say, look, there's reasons why I understand that you have that fear. And you know, there's risks we do need to map related to, you know, the amount of time your child is spending, where they're spending time, whether it's infringing on their sleep, what content they're looking at, whether there might be a risk of cyberbullying or, you know, whether they might be putting themselves in places that might not be safe or private enough for children online. We're going to map all those things, but first I want you to pivot to how your kid is spending their Time. Because whenever we talk about healthy limits around phone use, I want parents to think about all the major drivers of child wellness and ensure that we're spending enough time on those things. And that often lets us pivot back to phone use with a little bit less fear, a little bit more kind of practicality around it. So we'll go through kind of a developmental checklist where I'll say to a parent, let's talk about your child's attendance at school, their investment, and the ability to kind of make space for homework after school for whatever their need is appropriate to their grade level, and to make sure that homework space is kind of free of distractions and something where they might be able to get support or help if they need it. Then let's take a look at some other developmental drivers, their basic wellness habits. Are they getting enough sleep? You know, do we need to set some boundaries that help them to get better sleep or maybe work on sleep hygiene? Are they moving their body enough? What's going on with perhaps a healthy diet or hydration, you know, those kind of basic wellness habits? Then we'll get into kind of their friendships. What's their social life look like? Do they spend in person time with peers? Do they also have ways of connecting to peers online? And maybe there's a kind of balance there. Do they have extracurricular activities or hobbies they're involved in? I always tell parents there's not a maximum number of extracurriculars because we generally want to say, let's figure out what makes the kid happy. And as long as we have this balance between a kid being happy in the number of activities they're doing, you know, some kids may be able to do many more activities. Some kids may need a little bit more downtime, time to be bored, time to just be kind of taking creative space, those kinds of things. But in terms of a minimum, I say to parents, I want one thing. Even if your kid says, I'm not interested in doing a single extracurricular activity, we still want to say to kids, well, I want you to experience the world. I want you to be exposed to things. So it's my job as a parent to facilitate that process. So I'm going to make sure you have a minimum of one extracurricular activity. And maybe we also cultivate, like, one hobby at home. We talked about this actually recently with Dr. Lisa D' Amore on the podcast, talking about, like, kind of the importance of cultivating hobbies. Not just these structured extracurriculars, but these kinds of things. That are passions that you can, you know, think about doing on your own time or when you've got downtime at home. So once we go through that kind of checklist now, we can pivot back to screens. And I'll say to parents, as long as we're spending a developmentally appropriate amount of time on these screens and they're not infringing on homework or extracurriculars or face to face time with friends or sleep, not having devices in the bedroom at night, things like that. Now, let's talk about how your child uses screens. We want to think about information, entertainment, and social connection, and we want to think about how that's balanced so that there's not this kind of point of diminishing returns where we and the kid start feeling like, you know, you know, we're maybe wasting a lot of time or replacing important developmental tasks. And that discussion is much more relevant for teens who are kind of pushing probably for a lot more phone access or tech access. For younger kids, we're often referring parents to guidelines by the American Academy of Pediatrics or Common Sense Media that help parents to create either a digital family media plan or to really think about the number of hours that might be appropriate for screen time for a kid. And once you kind of set those kind that kind of structure up for your kid, we're trying to get to a point where parents can set it and forget it. Not necessarily feel like every day is kind of a battle over when and how we can use screens, but rather we kind of set these policies. We agree with our kids to try them for a certain period of time and to look at kind of the effects of this balance on their wellness. Because the last part of all screens and digital literacy is helping our kids to be critical thinkers in a digital age, to be thinking about how they use screens as a tool and not have the screens bypass all their executive functioning or kind of push out these important developmental tasks. And the more we teach kids to think that way, the more they're going to be able to be independent, perhaps when they're not living with us post high school. Question number two on this thriving kids podcast. Q and A. What should parents focus on first if they're worried about their child's mental health, the phone, family stress, school pressure, friendships, or sleep? The reason why this question is so important is that while we probably see the most ink devoted to phones in this modern era of parenting, the amount of ink we've devoted to it has not changed the fact that the main drivers of child and adolescent wellness are supportive relationships within your family, feeling like you are investing or succeeding or supported at school and having friends as well as, you know, I should say, you know, these. These basic habits, like making sure you're getting enough sleep. So when we look at these kind of drivers, if parents are worried about their kid's mental health, I often say your kid's behavior around technology may be more of a symptom than it is the problem. For example, if your child is depressed, we're likely to see that they're already thinking that their parents think negatively of them. Or maybe they're thinking their teachers have rejected them or think that they're failing at school, or maybe they don't think they have friends or don't think they're included with their peer group, or they're not finding that their extracurricular activities are all that fun. That's a common symptom, depression called anhedonia. And so that pushes them toward a retreat into the phone and maybe these kind of moments where they think, look, you know, if I don't really find anything else fun, and I think that I'm failing in school and it's not even worth the effort, maybe I can at least watch something on my phone or look at something, and that'll distract me or numb me from some of these feelings. So I'll often go back to the idea with parents that, like, you know, you can place limits on the phone, but, for example, that's not going to make a depressed kid undepressed, or it's not going to make a kid who's using the phone as a distraction from the anxiety they're feeling, not anxious, or it won't make a kid with ADHD who unfortunately is watching their executive functioning be bypassed by kind of an Infinite scroll app, suddenly not have adhd. We've still got to focus on those basic drivers of mental health. And that's what a lot of therapy is centered around, is that a teenager will be saying, it's not the phone, you know, it's you, or it's these people, or it's how I feel in these situations. And parents have to look at this in context and try to take a step back from it and say, okay, I'm going to try not to demonize the phone or criticize the kid and act like it's their fault or that, you know, they're only numbing themselves with tech and not kind of finding the solution. Because for so many kids and teens, this is their first time struggling with their mental health. They don't know what the roadmap looks like. They desperately need our support to remind them of what the anchors of their wellness are. To remind them they have support within our family, even if it might be a high conflict. Time to remind them that we can find champions at school, find people who can be in their corner, help them get the support they need to remind them that we can still Even if there are moments in childhood or adolescence where you don't have a lot of friends or don't feel included, we can help them to ride out those moments. Knowing they're hard, knowing we can't maybe solve them on a dime. But maybe we can still keep going back to the well and the things that help us to develop friendships. The more that they hear that from us, the more likely we are to see them feel supported around their mental health. The last thing I'll just say about screens in this question is that all too often what we hear from teens when we look at youth focused research is that teens will say, look, when I'm not finding support in my family environment. Particularly for teens who may have marginalized identities or feel like they've been rejected by their family or school, they're saying they might find belonging, they might find support online. And we don't want to discount the idea that that may be happening. Maybe they're not just kind of numbing or disassociating through what they're doing on screens. Maybe they're actually finding support that really is helping with their mental health. They're really helping them to find a feeling of belonging or peers who are kind of like them. So before we completely place limits on all screens, let's also be curious about how they're using them and, you know, how that might be, to some level, a stopgap for some of the real life solutions we need to put in place. Our next question on the Thriving Kids Podcast Q and A what should I do if my child sees something upsetting online? And how can I make sure they feel safe coming to me? This question relates to a lot of different topics that we highlight on the Thriving Kids podcast. From talking to your kids about sex and consent to talking to your kids about drugs and alcohol. Excuse me, this question relates to a lot of important topics that we talk about in this podcast, from talking to your kids about sex and consent to talking to your kids about drugs and alcohol, to talking to your kids about romantic relationships in the teenage years. Pretty much with any of these subjects that are really challenging technology, relationships, drugs and alcohol, sex when we're talking to kids about these things, there are kind of three underlying major talking points that we want to give parents from the research. You say to your kid, listen, I would like for you to delay all kinds of risky behaviors associated with these things. We might say to kids, I would like, as your parent, for you to delay, you know, getting into mature sexual relationships, either because I think that you might not be ready for some of those things just yet, and I want to make sure you are ready. Or it might be because people are talking about their cultural or faith background with drugs and alcohol. We might be saying, look, it is still illegal, for example, for you to consume alcohol in high school. I would like you to delay that behavior for as long as possible. Or, you know, drugs are illegal. I'd like you to delay this for as long as possible due to your developing brain with, you know, technology. We might say, I'd like for you to delay, you know, engaging in certain forms of, you know, engagement online for as long as possible, because I think that it includes a lot of adult content or a lot of things that are very distracting or take you away from some of these things I think are important for you to do. The first point is, I would love to delay these things. The second point is, but I'm a realist. I know you're probably gonna be exposed to them. I know even if I place limits on the phone, you might see these through friends or decide to kind of go underground with the way you access these things. I know that even if I never send you to a party in high school, you might still be exposed to kids who are engaging in sexual behavior, to kids who are experimenting with drugs, kids who are drinking alcohol. So I'd like you to delay. I am a realist. And then here's the key third point. What I want you to know is that as much as I would really like for us to really think critically for you to think critically about how you engage in these things, and I want to be a sounding board for you about those things. I will try to stay regulated if you get into trouble, if something is deeply upsetting to you, if something disturbs you, if someone is harassing you, if someone is making you feel unsafe. Come to me. Come to me if you get into trouble. And I promise that I will try to stay as regular as possible around this, that I will try to, you know, decrease punishment, Kind of take a Good Samaritan approach if you come to me because you're in trouble. But I just want you to come to me if you need me so that I can help you to find your way out of a particular situation. And that talking point is, is the most important one related to kids seeing something upsetting online. Because if they see this content, we want to help them to think about what this content was. We're saying to our kids, like, look, I'm going to try not to overreact. I'm not going to. I'm going to try not to ban the thing that made it so you saw something upsetting. I'm instead going to try to then take a critical lens with you to how we can make sure you don't see something like this before again. And also how we can make sure that this doesn't happen again in the future. Or if you, you know, God forbid, have a interaction with someone online who harasses you, who tries to sextort you, who tries to get you to do something you don't want to do or makes you feel unsafe. I want you to come for me. I will not, you know, I will try not to overreact and, you know, ban the screens or ban the things. I know it might be important to you, but we then would just have to think about how we set those boundaries together to ensure it doesn't happen in the future again. So those are the talking points. Just keep saying to your kid. And many parents will say, look, my kid never wants to talk about this kind of stuff. And our answer is that in that case, you do what I do, which is you take two minutes and you say, I'm gonna be the awkward dad for a second here. Just hear me out, let me say a couple things. And you just do that a few times in any given year just so if ever they do get into trouble. There's some recent memory of you saying, look, I know I'm your dad, but if you do get in trouble, please come to me. It'll always be better if you come to me. I don't want you to feel like you're going through this alone. Question number four on the thriving kids podcast Q and A. How do I manage my own anxiety as a parent when every headline seems to say that phones and social media are ruining kids? Well, first thing is, I'll just say, listen to our podcast episode Last Week with Dr. Candice Odgers, because what she will actually tell you about this question number four is, is that, and this is a subject, by the way, of Dr. Rodgers, recent TED talk and a lot of her current research, is that not only are she and many Colleagues across the country at UC Irvine, at UNC Chapel Hill, out at Pitt, and other kind of academic locations around the country, doing real research. You know, our former podcast Guest Linda Charmarman, Dr. Linda Charmarman Wellesley, you know, doing a lot of this research in real time on kids and phones and social media, we're mapping the risks, but we're also trying also to look at the big drivers of mental health. And that anxiety, as a parent, is something you should pay attention to, because, as Dr. Rogers would say, parental mental health may be an even bigger driver of what's going on with our kids than the headlines on phones and social media. And so managing your anxiety. And what I mean by managing your anxiety is this. Not passing it along to your kids, not podcast and reading, dumping on your kids all the different things that you read that make you worried about phones and social media, because they're growing up in a digital age, and a lot of times they actually know stuff even better than we do. I'll give one example, which was that yesterday my son was looking at something on the computer with me, and he saw in my email signature that there is a link to our thriving kids podcast and to the Masterclass that I had a privilege of doing with a few other parenting experts around the country. And when he clicked on the link to masterclass, he saw the photo of me, and he said, daddy, that's AI. And I said, you're nine years old. How do you know that's AI? And he said, well, they smoothed out your face. You have a lot more wrinkles on your face than in this photo. And I said, yes, you are correct. Masterclass did smooth out my face for the particular image that they used for Masterclass. And I said, how do you know this? And he goes, I don't know. You can just tell when AI does something to an image. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, this kid is a digital native and knows more stuff than I do about these things. So, again, we don't need to pass on all of our anxiety. Our kids are often already critical thinkers. It's instead thinking about how we manage it. How do we make sure that it's not an alarm bell that is going off and it's, you know, overactive. There's no fire. It's actually just the alarms that go off in kind of all the ways our anxiety attaches different things as a parent. And then ask ourselves the question, if I'm going to kind of ride the wave of this anxiety a little bit, what should I be worried about. And as we've referenced in other questions, what are the drivers of my kids wellness that I really should be focused on? And that's where it's difficult to see through a lot of the media headlines what those things are. But listen to my answer to question number one in this podcast episode. All right, our fifth question on our podcast Q and A episode here. What are the basic wellness signs parents should look for before assuming? Oh, sorry, this question is a little bit awkwardly phrased. So I got this. What are the basic wellness signs parents should look for before assuming screens are the main problem? Sleep, school, friends, mood, activity, family connection. What we're looking for when we think about wellness? Like we get this question a lot when we give a talk called Mental Health 101, which is a talk that a lot of child men institute clinicians give in area schools and you know, all over the country and parents and policymakers and educators. And we have a particular slide where we say, look. What you are looking for to know if your child might be having difficulty with their mental health or wellness is you're looking for changes. You're looking for changes in your child's mood. You know, do they suddenly seem sad or a lot more irritable or a lot more nervous or a lot more withdrawn? You look for changes in your child's daily habits. Do they suddenly seem to sleep a lot more, a lot less? Do they seem to be not hungry or not eating? Do they seem to have gone from being talkative to not talkative at all or not talkative, too talkative? Do they seem to have withdrawn from friends or they're not talking about friends as much or they don't seem to be as interested in certain activities. Are you seeing conflict increase? There's a lot more fights that they're picking with their sister, their brother, their friends? You. Are you seeing other indicators of their performance? Like a coach has raised a red flag or a faith leader has said that they seem troubled or a teacher at school has said they don't seem to be putting in the same amount of work that they used to. All of these can be signs that a kid is struggling with something. And when we see those particular things, we often say to parents, let's talk about the acronym Phi di, which is frequency, intensity, duration and impairment. How often is this happening? Frequency? How intense is it? How long has it been happening? Because a lot of mental health difficulties that kids have, there's kind of a duration requirement of like maybe they're struggling with this for a few weeks before we really consider whether or not there's a more entrenched problem. Because lots of things kids can struggle with for a day or two or a week at a time, and then does it impair them? Does it make it difficult to interact with their family, function in school, engage with their peers, function in extracurriculars? So those are the moments where we really ask those questions. And I say to parents, you don't have to have, like a really strong sense that everything is going wrong, but before you look for help. Because there's two sides to wellness. One is how we promote our kids wellness. That's through supportive relationships. That's through helping them to do activities they enjoy and cultivating extracurriculars and hobbies. That's through sleep and healthy diet and hydration and exercise. Those are the things that kind of boost wellness that we know about. And then there's these other things where if you have a concern that some of the things I've listed have changed or shifted recently. What we really hope that we do with things like this podcast with, with things like our website, childmind.org and all the work that the Childmind Institute and its partners do is we are trying to break down stigma. We're trying to make it so that this generation of parents says, you know what, if there is something going on with my kid, I don't have to wait. I don't have to wait until something's really wrong. I can talk to a school counselor. I can talk to a teacher. I can talk to someone who's in my child's village. I can seek out a mental health professional who hopefully might be able to give me some, some consultation on what's going on. I'm not gonna be afraid that my kid's gonna be pathologized or diagnosed because none of us in the mental health field get into it for that reason, even if that's what it seems like parents are told. We're here to make sure that kids grow up healthy, well and thriving. So please consult us sooner rather than later. Question number six on today's thriving kids podcast episode. If adults mental health is one of the biggest predictors of kids mental health, what should parents do to take better care of themselves? So this point relates to one of the major points of last Week's podcast with Dr. Rogers, talking about how parent mental health is one of the biggest predictors of kids mental health and is one of the perhaps major factors explaining parts of when the youth mental health crisis over the last decade has gotten worse, gotten better. Based on the stressors that parents are facing. So when we talk about what doing, you know, self care or as we've referenced in previous episodes, the Thriving Kids podcast, filling your cup as a parent can feel like this often comes back to basic emotional skills. And these are the same skills we teach through our Thriving Kids and mental health fitness resources, available for free on our website. It's that we say to parents, first step in self care isn't even doing anything. It's getting in touch with how you're feeling throughout the day. It's the first step in any good therapy. Notice the emotions you're feeling, label them, think about how intensely you're feeling them and what they're related to at certain points in the day. That's the first step in most therapies is us to get someone to take a record of their emotions and their ups and downs over the course of the day. Because that data informs a lot. It tells us what activities are causing major increases in stress. It tells us what activities might be boosting our mood to some degree or help us to feel more connected or well. And then from there we look at a host of other things, similar to kind of the list that I gave in answer to question one on this podcast where we say to parents, look, let's make this manageable for you. Let's make this incremental. You know, so much of parents fight with self care is this idea that it seems overindulgent or something for other people. How do we make it manageable for you? Let's take, you know, basic skills that we use in therapy, relaxation skills and deep breathing exercises, distress tolerance skills, where we think about what soothes you through your five senses and how we can make even minutes, even a couple minutes on any given day available to you for that. How we can help to center ourselves on a bit more mindful experience. Maybe it's mindfully drinking a cup of coffee, maybe it's mindfully having a meal. Maybe it's mindfully for one second turning off the worry dial that happens in our head and just looking at our kids playing on the playground or, you know, noticing that they are sleeping and that they're actually doing something to grow their brains and we've done something. Well, as, as a parent. Maybe it's also thinking about our own internal monologue and how we kind of shift that and pay more attention to the successes and the efforts we are making rather than the things that are falling through the cracks or the criticisms we have for ourselves or others. And maybe we Think about our own social connections, how we do small things to maybe build a connection or a sense that we're working as a team with our co parent or partner. If we're raising kids together, reach out to a friend that we do find supportive or do something to connect within our community that makes it so we feel like we're doing something to fill our own cup. We go through those things with parents and then we go back to is the evidence base on how you set appropriate goals for self care, which doesn't involve doing all these things at once. It's picking one or two in any given week and saying, look, I'm going to try to just take this small bit of space to do these things for myself, to fill my cup and to make it so perhaps even if it involves decreasing a certain amount of time with my kids, I can bring my best self to the time that I am spending with my kids. Because one thing is absolutely for sure, and that is in this generation of parents, we are spending more time at work and more time with our children across both sexes and all parents than any parenting generation before. And there are only so many ways that we can manage stress in the midst of that kind of balance. With that, our seventh question on today's podcast, Q and A How can we model healthier tech habits at home without turning every screen conversation into a lecture? Now, the answer to this question is simple. Just stop talking. That's it. What I tell most parents is what I would love to see in families around screens is curiosity and questions instead of shoulds and lectures. It's this notion that we assume that we know what our kids are doing on tech, what the value of it is, and that they need to hear about it. And I ask parents, let me ask this question. How many times have your children, whether they're in early elementary school, late elementary school, middle school or high school, turned to you and said, you know what, mom or dad, you're right. I didn't realize it. It is so good that you for the 77th time told me about what you think about this thing that I'm doing in technology. Because now I'm going to agree with you, it's of no value and it's terrible for me. We just don't hear that kind of thing. In fact, what happens more often when we lecture is we lecture and our kids become more entrenched in their perspective and we get farther apart. So what we say to parents is, first, it's a great idea to think, where do you want to be Screen zones and screen free zones in your home. Maybe there's no screens before we're going to school for anybody. Maybe there's certain meals that you take in any given week where we make sure that screens are out of the room. No one is paying attention to dings or notifications from their phone. Heck, maybe we decide we're going to turn off all notifications on all of our phones so that perhaps the only time we look at our phones is is intentionally throughout the house. Maybe we make sure there's no screens in the bedroom so that it doesn't infringe on sleep. And so we cultivate sleep hygiene that's screen independent. There are all kinds of healthy tech habits that we can show kids we are modeling intentionally. I'll just give one example of a very simple one that my wife and I do oftentimes on weekends with our nine and six year old. And that is that they know that if our phones are in our pocket when we're playing with them, we're doing activities that are child led. We might feel in a quiet moment like we should just kind of check something, maybe text the other parent about something we remembered or add something to our to do list or text back a grandparent who had a question. If we just leave our phones charging in another room, then we're more likely to be present with our kids and to be more likely to build relationships, you know, through these attachment building kind of rituals and activities. And I'll just go back to that other point, which is if you're thinking about what your kid is doing on screens more often than not asking a question, then being able to kind of understand where they're at. And then what you do is you want to try to dispassionately frame a problem. You know, I hear where you're coming from, but the one worry I have is that this particular activity sometimes seems to get in the way of you finishing your homework, which only makes you more stressed later on at night. Can we dispassionately frame this in a way that doesn't sound like we're villainizing them or, or their activity? And we kind of frame the problem and we say, can we think through some solutions for that? And more often than not, if someone arrives at a solution themselves that you were about to lecture them on, they're going to be much more bought in. So our final question of this podcast, Thriving Kids Q and A. If my daughter is already struggling offline with anxiety, depression, loneliness or school stress, how should I approach online risk differently this is a great question related to the former Surgeon General Murthy's, you know, report and advisory on social media that was released during the last presidential administration, where one of the things that I think was well summarized within that advisory is this notion that what the research indicates is that, you know, tech screen activities, social media may not be a cause of mental health issues that teenagers are experiencing, but it can be an accelerant. So in that sense, if a kid is struggling with anxiety or, say, like, body image, or they're worried about their own body, or they're worried they're being left out socially and that their friends are having a much more fun time than they are, looking on social media at the comparison effects that they might feel could exacerbate some of what they're struggling with. If a kid is feeling depressed and already withdrawing from activities that could help to boost their mood or withdrawing from engagement in school, and then they are spending a lot of time, say, alone in their rooms on a number of things, watching shows and, you know, being on social media, you know, playing video games, any number of screen activities. The issue is that while a certain dose of those could be mood boosting, in the midst of a depressive episode, too much of them might have this kind of point of diminishing returns, where you get to a place where it's actually exacerbating the depression, making you feel like you're wasting more time and space, making you feel like you're even, you know, failing at managing your depression. You're failing at kind of bringing yourself out of it. Your brain is telling you this other stuff just isn't gonna be that rewarding. And it can kind of be a vicious cycle, similar thing to loneliness or school stress, where, you know, screens don't make it so that your grades are better. And unless you're, you know, using them for good research for school projects, I should say. But much of the activities we do on screens don't necessarily make your grades better. And much of the engagement you and you, you go into on screens can make kids feel more like they're left out, or they can open themselves up to online bullying. That is, in addition to whatever real life kind of bullying or meanness they're seeing from kids. So this is where if we see a kid is struggling, those are the times where we want parents to kind of think critically about how kids are using screens in balance with the very things they're struggling with. And we want to have as open and honest to conversation with kids about what that looks like and how we want to help and support them. Not take the screens fully away, but make sure that any use of screens is something that we critically consider and say, okay, is this helping or exacerbating what's going on? And honey, I love you. I want to support you. I'm not trying to take away things that give you a moment of comfort in this time that I know you're struggling. I'm just trying to make sure that screens are something we do to relax or entertain ourselves or engage in social connection after we do the things that are the major drivers of how we're going to help you manage what's going on right now and the kind of struggles and challenges you're facing. So with that, let me say thank you so much for joining us for this Q and A edition of Thriving Kids. We've included references in our show notes for a number of the things and resources that I mentioned, whether it's the American Academy of Pediatrics, Common Sense Media, or our Mental health fitness resources. And if you want to keep learning about any of today's topics, you can find those in the show notes or on childmind.org thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next week.